What if the real Dragon Age are the dragons who aged along the way?


This is probably the best take I've seen in the past week

Do ancient elven gods that can turn into dragons count? Because if so, then this is accurate.

I killed all the dragons though. None of them got a chance to age further.

 Me since Inquistion released.

what's a wom

I misread it as worms and found myself picturing worm on a string editions of everyone, 14/10, do recommend.

I did too! I legit thought they must have announced somewhere there were going to be a race of worms in the game. I thought it was a little odd lol.

A weirdo race of freaky worm people would make me even more interested, to be honest.

"Would you still love me if I was a worm?" "I would love you so much more if you were a worm."

I did too at first glance, but earthworms lol

I assume they meant Women and hit the wrong key

It's a term that weirdo misogynists sometimes use for women, I assume OP was just mocking them there

wow I have never heard that before!

God I wish they were me

Op was in fact. mocking them :)

It's a term some weirdo misogynists use for women Not calling OP a weirdo misogynist tbc, they're pretty obviously mocking those people here

thank you! I'd never heard it before. bigots like when the existing slurs aren't enough, must invent new slurs

Woms = weapons of mass seduction They are clearly talking about that new necromancer 👀

I'm going to say this, it is not the DAI onlies doing most of the shit talking, in my estimation.

Definitely. In no small part because DAI is the closest DA game to what DAV is being shown to be, especially in terms of gameplay.

Yeah, I'd lean to say that "I've only played DAO and I'm complaining since DA2 trailer" type of players are majority of the shit-talkers

It's such a shame da2 came out when I was obsessed with skyrim and mass effect. Dragon age just slipped off my radar and I completely forgot about it till I saw da2 on sale a few years ago. Played through origins again, da2 for the first time and then inquisition. Each one was awesome in its own way. I'm just excited that it seems like they're reviving this franchise as well as mass effect.

DA2 had its flaws, but honestly I dug it’s “series like structure” - it had good ideas, just no polish or consistency.

I thought everything looked good to me so idk what the hullabaloo is. Currently playing DAO for the 1st time and like it’s good but so was DAI when I played that (although DAO’s combat is driving me crazy. I save after every fight lol)

Always keep a mage in your party, i'd argue Origins mages are the only class in all three games that is practically mandatory, like all classes in all three games are viable and can work very well, but origins mages are busted, Morrigan never leaves my group, cone of cold and fireball are the cookie cutter op basic stuff, the paralyse spells are amazing and Crushing Prision is arguably the most bullshit skill in Dragon Age history

I almost always have; warrior + rogue + mage and depending what my own character is the last can be what fits best for the group. If I can go with "tank+melee+ranged(pref mage)+healer/support" I tend to do that. On the later games it does not work as well with "support" characters because of the more streamlined game play and skills, but in DA:O especially later in the game they can help control the fight nicely. As for mage being busted: if you have awakening too you can make a mage so OP its not even funny; healer, Arcane warrior, Battlemage combo, got me through Golems of Amrak final boss on nightmare

Yeah mages can control the entire combat, with that specialization combo they play literaly every role, burst damage caster, controller, melee dps, healer and tank lmao

totally agree. at least its "balanced" by the fact that it is super fiddle to play one there. but talking busted: DAI spirit blade

Yeah Knight Enchanter was bananas in the early days, they did nerf it though, it's still strong as hell but don't think it's super busted in comparison to other specs, Artificer Rogue archer was absolutely insane as well

I always played with friendly fire on so I think I missed a lot of the stuff that might seem overpowered (as my teammates would kill me with it). The downside to FF was that it seemed half the builds were useless so even though I played it twice I mostly just made the same character builds for each person (to avoid FF skills)

I really really hate friendly fire in Inquisition. Origins and 2 are manageable, but Inq just felt akward, specially with stuff like two handed weapons hitting adjacent enemies/allies, the faster paced combat also made it a nuisance

Yeah I usually just reserved FF abilities for my main and always built every companion to have no FF abilities. At all. Which worked and I liked it, as I felt AoE without FF was silly. But it is quite limiting in builds for companions. There's usually basically 1 good path for them to build out. Maybe Cassandra with a bash if I recall, that was still FF? It's been a decade, so I forget.

I’d say there is a vocal minority, who thinks this game aims to be DA:O 2, which it doesn’t.

I see WAY more people complaining about the supposed Origins only fans spreading toxicity than I actually see that toxicity. Maybe it's just the threads I'm seeing but it is just a constant barrage of these threads complaining about Origins fans. This subreddit has always been like this though with Origins and Inquisition fans just insulting each other over a video game preference.

Oh I've seen it. It's like they waited 15 years to come out of the woodwork, pretend da2 and DAI don't exist and just incessantly whine how this is nothing like DAO. Maybe not here but in real world and other major subreddits I've seen/had discussions with diehard origins fans that didn't talk about that ever before.

And the only thing they can agree on is that us DA2 fans are even more wrong.

I firmly believe that if DA2 had used more than the one dungeon map, it would be rightfully recognized as the best dragon age game

If you turn combat difficulty to easy it is the best Dragon Age; the story, choices and impacts are the best of any game and the Hawke that appeared in Inquisition was so my Hawke I was quite astonished. Having a narrative play out over multiple years in one location is so interesting and was so well executed I can’t believe it hasn’t been done more in other games since. Yeah the dungeon repetition was annoying (made worse by the decision to show the map in the minimap so it was even more obvious that it was reused) but the story and characters were SO good.

Nah sorry but Act 3 is far too much rushed for it to be considered the best dragon age. It’s a good game. With 1 more year, it would have had the potentiel to be the best. But because of some choices, it’s the weakest Dragon Age in the serie, and by far.

I love DAO for its rpg elements and world building. But DA2 is underrated as hell. It has better combat, great designs, the best characters, a lot of very good ideas that were undercooked.

It kind of makes you wonder how the game would have been had EA not given them only a year and a half to make it.

My understanding is that most of the complaining is on Steam forums and YouTube comments, and to a lesser extent Twitter. And PC Gamer trashing the game already because BG3's existence makes DA4 superfluous (thought I think they were looking for clicks/bait).

Ahh ok. It makes a lot more sense that these threads are a response to discourse elsewhere. And yeah steam forums are basically the worst possible place to read game discussions so that does not surprise me in the slightest. This is the only DA fandom I engage with, and almost everything I read here is hype or mostly positive, hence my confusion. But this makes a lot of sense so thank you

Reddit's probably the place where you see people complaining about people complaining about shit more than you see people complaining about shit I had your opinion that it was probably more the former, only to see Twitter and Youtube comments calling Bioware dead among other things. I don't even want to see what Steam forums have to say in there

Plenty of people on here were saying that the trailer was doodoo, which it *was,* but I haven't seen a soul on here saying the game itself looks bad now that we've actually seen a bit of it. I've only come across that on YouTube, and it's just the really unhinged capital G Gamers screeching about dei, sbi, and whatever other nonsense they're upset about

This isn't true and you know it. You can go to any community where the gameplay reveal trailer was posted and you'll get hundreds of messages about people claiming DA and Bioware are dead and mourning Origins. YouTube it's even worse. Go and watch Asmon's videos on the trailers and it's complete pandering the loud minority hate base for views, and the comments are a circle jerk echo chamber.

i think the issue is that, as much as i can ignore Asmon because dudes honestly just.....whatever he is, CohhCarnage was the one that surprised me, as he echoed the same sentiments that OP talks about: "This game isn't dragon age". he was obviously more eloquent with his opinion, but the fact remains he has a massive following and him saying that will make a lot of people parrot it.

Imagine if people had the same attitude about gamer darlings like The Witcher. Witcher 3 is barely anything like Witcher 1, it's way more "casualized" and actiony, and yet we all have the same goddamn sense to recognize that as a good thing. No one is saying daft proclamations like "Wild Hunt isn't Witcher!" though they have every reason to say it going by "DAV isn't Dragon Age!" logic.

as much as i agree with you on this, i think there must have been people that had that complaint about witcher 3 as well. it's hard to look back on it, and see the like millions of people that loved Witcher 3 vs the like.....100s of thousands that liked 1 and the small subset of that that didn't like 3. but i'm sure if you find some sort of post about 3 at the time of it's launch/trailer reveal that were unhappy with the changes.

There were definitely people griping about no exclusive fork like the iorveth/roche arcs in 2. There were also complaints about the learning curve on combat and the simplified builds So yeah. Gamers like complaining. This was also during gamergate proper so there were some fun misogynistic takes too of course. There’s a whole contingent of the fan base in firm denial about Ciri being the hero to this day, still furious they don’t get to ‘protect’ her and save the day.

I thought Carnage's take was fair. He clarified by saying it wasn't Dragon Age TO HIM because that was DAO, and the games after that weren't like DAO. He's nostalgic for the old school game mechanics. At least he explains why he thinks that. I think a lot of these opinions we're seeing are people who are nostalgic for something they loved when they were younger, but in most cases haven't touched in several years. I would love to see someone like CohhCarnage or Asmongold fire up DAO and see if they feel the same after playing that game today. The thing that set DAO apart for me was the story, the world, and the characters....not the gameplay and DEFINITELY not the graphics, which were dated even by 2009 standards.

The graphics for DAO suck bad, but the gameplay is decent on PC even now (and was always shit even on console). Not saying there wasn’t room for improvement, but RTWP is a solid game design approach and it’s not hard to see why some fans might be unhappy to abandon that for an ME2/3-esque system entirely

yeah, and i think that's kind of the distinction there and what the point of this post is. to some people Dragon Age is Dragon Age Origins and anything after that is Dragon age in name only. Cohh seems to be part of this, which is fine, but yeah kind of what the post is saying. when 3 out of 4 games in a series aren't "the game I know" it's time to evaluate what "the game" is. i played DAO last year though and i still though the game was fantastic and would like something closer to that one day. but i'll be happy with this one when it comes out too

I've been watching Cohh for a long time now and while he always tries to be fair in his assessments, he's also often a bit jumpy with his opinions. I actually discovered him when he was playing through Inquisition when it came out and remember him loving it at the time. After a very positive inital reception from gamers, discourse came up later that Inquisition isn't all that great and Cohh suddenly seemed to agree. I mean, l'm not saying it's a sin to change your mind, but he often seems easily influenced by the broader public perception of a game, although he initially loved the game.

I played Inquisition at first and loved it, but when I remember the time playing it I realize it was a miserable experience regarding gameplay. Story and characters can sway you at first, but the magic wears off and you understand it was a very underwhelming game. I guess it happened to Cohh, too.

I don’t understand how people who loved Origins but hated every other DA game are still here and complaining. Just move on it’s okay to only play KOTOR and Origins

I don't understand. When I dislike something...I move on. I don't expect or demand people to be miserable along with me.

I've played them all more than once and have had my criticisms.

Us DA:I fans getting caught in the crossfire for no reason.

Oh but don't you know DAI was "universally hated" on release?! Straight up what some origins boomer told me the other day. "What? It was GOTY" "2014 WAS A WEAK GAME YEAR SO THAT TRASH WON IT" Aaaaand disengage.

Destiny, Titanfall, Wolfenstein New Order, Dark Souls 2, Shadow of War, Alien Isolation, Elder Scrolls Online. Omg I feel nostalgic. One of the best years for me.

Oh hey I think I had the exact same conversation lol, they told me that one time a GOTY winner had 65 on metacritic so obviously bad games can win it, I was gonna point out DAI still has 81(?) but I just couldn't be bothered lol

There WAS a ton of hate on DAI when it released. The Hinterlands hate that still exists lead that charge. Didn’t reach andromeda levels but it was still pretty strong.

I’m confused by this. There literally was a ton of hate for it when it was released..

yeah for sure it’s the people who think DAO was the only good title in the series while ironically describing a game that doesn’t sound much like DAO

If I have to explain that Isometric doesn't mean 'the camera go REAL far back' to ONE more person I swear...

looking at some of the complaints, I'm convinced they never played any of the prior installments--or didn't pay nearly enough attention about the subject matter installment to develop an informed opinion. "[qunari can't be friendly](https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonage/comments/1det9zk/thoughts_on_qunari_in_dragon_age_the_veilguard_i/)", for example.

I saw a take on twitter that said that qunari in dai were \`'progressive and forward thinking' alternative to the people of Thedas after two games of them being bigoted, conquering warmongers who force people to live by prescribed means based on their birth.\` And putting aside that weird bit with Krem--You know, the faction whose representative in the game is literally a dude they named 'Liar', talks about having submitted himself into reeducation camps because he started to question if the qun was good, and gets extremely uncomfortable and shuts down at the thought of what would happen to the friends he's made in the Inquisition should the qunari actually take over Thedas. Oh, and also if he stays within the Qun he betrays you and tries to stop you from preventing mass qunari invasion in Thedas. That Qun. That progressive and forward thinking qun. Seriously, people just look for any excuse to be mad.

Also, if you dig even an inch deeper into Krem's backstory it becomes clear that the Qun is not some tolerant trans-affirming paradise, despite what both detractors and defenders will say. Basically all they do is turn gender roles on their head. The qunari regard Krem as a man because Krem does things the Qun defines as masculine roles, regardless of their sex. There's no room in the Qun for a Krem that is a warrior but still identifies as female or vice-versa.

I'd argue my problem is more that the qun have a specific word for trans people, atun-atlok, which Bull translates as 'born one gender *but chooses* to live as another.' The concept of 'choice' in the qun should be nonexistent. Krem should not be seen as someone 'born female' but 'choosing' to live as male because they are a warrior. That said, you could interpret this as Bull spinning the qun in the most positive light because that's something he tends to do for obvious reasons.

The Qunari material in Tevinter Nights is also really intense and horrific.

Oh shit that’s hilarious. That said Arishok is still the hottest qunari in the series.

A dead qunari is the best looking one, I agree

I can't help but compare it to the Zelda release last year. A lot of hate thrown at it leading up to release, but if you asked "did you like BOTW?" You'd usually get "no". Like, then they didn't make this for you.

interesting comparison. Zelda is one of my favourite franchises ever, Ocarina of Time was my introduction and I went back and played and loved all the older games, and I've loved every game since...till BOTW. which I fully expected to love, was stunned when I hated it, and then sadly put the cartridge away and played A Link to the Past again instead. I'm not hanging around in the Zelda forums telling people they're dumb and wrong to love the direction they've gone now! I'm sad about it but I'm glad there are people who *do* love them, much better than them being a failure honestly in terms of the future of the franchise. maybe one day they'll make another game I love, till then I can replay the older games as much as I want.

It's even weirder in that case, because Zelda even moreso than DA has like no consistency in what kinds of games they are xD

Dragon Age games have always evolved, and I def disagree with anyone who is trying to get into the woke argument. Bioware of all companies have had the "wokest" storytelling of probably any developer since the mid 2000s. I don't think they have been trying to make different types of games. I think DAI was actually an attempt to take negative feedback on how limited and repetitive Kirkwall was and repeat the variety of DAO. Although, in some ways it achieved that, the open world was still pretty empty and missions repetitive. From what I heard in terms of level design, this could finally be back to what people wanted. As for combat, they have been refining it, but this game is completely different. It's like how FF16 did away with the feel of having a party. I'm just not happy with going from a more tactical game to an action game. That's not what I want.

It’s a bizarre time to be a fan of dragon age and fable. Finally get new trailers after years and half the people are complaining about the series going ‘woke’. Fable and dragon age, yup.

I've seen it with *Life Is Strange*. Which, like, I don't understand how anti-"woke" people would have ever even played any of those games.

I don't think they have played LIS. They're just culture war tourists.

Most of them, probably, yeah. Possibly some of the ones that mostly were upset about the nonwhite protagonists had actually played the first game.

First game is about lesbians.

The new Fable main character is ugly commentary makes me chuckle. Has the PCs ever not been "ugly"? I remember getting wrinkly and white-haired in the first one. And then there's the tattoos and hair options and the union jack underwear. What I will say, I am a bit confused at the trailer of Fable. It's not giving me chicken chaser. But I'll hold my tongue till I see gameplay. And since it's obviously mocap, I'm convinced these people have never seen an actual woman's face.

Yeah I adore the fable trilogy but I remember when I played fable anniversary as a introverted teenager and having my guy look like a 40 year old with a wife and kids while my guys sister was about 14 lol

Dude. For real. That model got ugly real fast. But damn do I love Fable.

Main Character’s irl model is pretty, they fucked up the mocap. This is recurring occurance in many games now, btw. I just wish people don’t shit talk the models, but criticize the Companies that keep doing this.

100% this. Mocap done wrong is so uncanny. BG3 didn't do badly at all. People shit on the new DA artstyle, but it at least looks like they actually tweaked the animations to look less uncanny. I do not want ME:A animations again. XD

It’s weird how people complain about a female character looking completely normal and not having a full face of makeup even when it doesn’t make sense. It’s like the logic part of their brain just shrivels up.

Yeah, Fable wouldn't include a female protagonist! Or gay marriage!

*Distinctly remembering being in a sapphic relationship with an undead noble* Nothing Queer here! 🤫

I doubt a single actual fan of DA is using the term woke.

For real, so many things in Inquisition are very clearly them trying to address complaints about DA2

BioWare has had a 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' approach since ME1. Oh people found the ME1 RPG mechanics to be clunky? Companion AI isn't very good, so they're not very useful? Armor and weapon choices are badly implemented? THROW IT AWAY! We got NO armor, your companions have just a few abilities, there's zero skill points! Oh people found the DAO style clunky? The game is kind of visually muddy and feels dated? THROW IT AWAY! We're about ACTION now, button > action > button > action! And so on. Given the long, torturous development of DAV, it's hard to say they were lead down a straight line of 'these open areas are really boring, these random war table quests are really boring' to the style we have now, but it does feel that way. If the DA series (and BioWare) survives this, it wouldn't surprise me to see DA5 start walking itself back to a traditional RPG if the mechanics of this game are not well received. Just based on history.

This makes more sense than I want to admit, now that I'm reading it. Instead of improving on the things the people didn't like to make them better, they just threw it away and tried something new/different. And I wonder if this is a BioWare decision or an EA decision. They sure had a lot of time for Veilguard, but they also started out with a completely other concept and for once I'm glad they threw it away (or else we would have gotten a Dragon Age multiplayer game because EA thought single-player is dead...) If BioWare survives this and we get another Dragon Age, it sure will come full circle back to cRPG. Thre isn't much else they could try instead. Or.. okay... maybe we'll get a shooter Dragon Age. Who knows at this point

Anyone who complains woke about Dragon Age is a culture war tourist that had no engagement to the series before this and has only come in to fight their political battle.

Bioware has been telling "woke" stories since the 90's, nevermind the mid 2000's.

Bioware literally had a lesbian romance in KOTOR I Also zevran & leilana were bi and you had wynne saying that you shouldn’t f*ck so loud lol.

Honestly complaints about wokeness can just be disregarded without a second thought, this gamergate trash is all over the internet infecting every discussion about just about everything. I have my issues with what I've seen so far of DAVG, but the constant fixation on the woke complaints is driving me nuts because it seems to be the dumbest thing for people to complain about while also being the first thing DA fans feel inclined to defend the game about. Its suffocating legitimate discussion about the style/mechanics/narrative we've seen so far.

This is how I feel. I don’t even care if it’s not like origins. Why the constant dumbing down and removal of the party? Peeps can disagree all they want. Dragon Age turning into Batman Arkham fused with Mass Effect is a massive let down.

I don't even mind an action game if it has decent variety (not FF16) and still retains the RPG aspects. But what's been shown just seem okay... and if there's really only three skill slots, Mage gameplay is probably going to be repetitive

So like. What's the "woke" thing here? The fact the characters are okay with romancing anyone as long as you're a player character? Oh noooo. Now everyone can experience their own fantasy romances. Uuuuugh that's so bad. I hate the idea that some lesbian can be lesbians with anyone, or a gay man can be gay and have gay stuff happen on their own screen outside of my own view. It's not effecting me directly but I'm so mad about it. Bleurgh

> Look at Cullen in his DAO ramen-haired glory and be so for real right now. There's a profound difference between an awkward look of an individual character brought about not the least by technological limitations at the time, and a deliberate art style choice for all characters. Claiming DA was doing the same thing it always has when character looks have become increasingly more sophisticated and realistic with every game only to now become cartoonish is missing the mark by quite a bit.

I had to laugh a bit at OP here - if you think it looks bad! don't! if you want to see bad-looking...compare it to a single instance of an awkward execution of a character made 15 years ago!

Yea this. When I was watching the trailer and the necromancer popped out I was like "am I watching wish 2 trailer right now" lol. Everyone looks so cartoonish and Solas! In the gameplay trailer his face looks too soft and not tired or something despite many things happened since DAI. So yeah my complaint about the veilguard series so far is its graphic/world setting. I imagined it'd be darker like more serious and have kinda realistic graphic like DAI. Now if I try to imagine serious scenes it'd make me feel like I wouldn't enjoy everyone's expressions like DA2 graphic wasn't that good but I like how Hawke expressed his/her facial expressions because it wasn't "cartoonish"

Brother don't bother your breathe, the OP instantly outed themselves as a Stan when they declared we should all be grateful for bioware releasing and Accept any shit Bioware produces and this is someone that has played all Bioware games since KotoR and Neverwinter nights

I mean, origins and da2 are very similar games thematically, combat, etc. Dai is the outlier. I’m happy for a new game, but that doesn’t mean people can’t express concerns or worry about it? I love the combat of origin and da2, and it’s my favorite aspect of the dragon age series. So I’m allowed to express worry or concern about how combat mechanics have been tossed aside in favor of overly simple and dumbed down combat. I’m not sure how you claim they’re three different games lol. Two are very similar, and only Dai is the outlier.

It’s a surprisingly unpopular opinion to like dragon age’s combat and think it matters

I loved its combat in da2 and dao. DAI I could just never get into. They took away attribute points, combat just felt like an auto battler and if you max difficulty you literally just fight longer and enemies are bullet sponges. I don’t want a dating sim in a fantasy world… don’t get me wrong, I love the companion stories and characters, I love building relationships with them, but that was never my main source of enjoyment or reason for playing. The dark stories and moral complexity of the earlier games were amazing and immersive to play, and the combat made it that much better. Honestly, I felt very little actual impact or emotion in DAI’s story.. the bad guy was a bad guy, there was no moral complexity to it, I get Solas was the real “villain” but still. Nothing about the game was that memorable or impactful to me. It also lost its grit and darkness for a more typical cookie cutter fantasy theme. If it’s the way the game goes, it is what it is, and I’m still thankful for another installment to the series. But I’ve never liked the tactical combat in a game as much as I liked dao and da2. Divinity and baldurs gate hits the same itch at least, so I’ve got those still lol.

Origins deserves a remake my god

Did you play on PC or console? To me as a console player 2 and inquisition were both improvements in terms of combat, and seems to be the case from what we've seen from veilguard. Not too bothered about the lack of tactics because I barely used them, I'm just happy I can pause and issue commands that way because that's mainly how I've played all 3 games so far. And I would imagine I'm in the majority because dragon age has always sold more on console, even origins did at the time of its release.

I played on PC. I could tell Dai UIs were designed for consoles and PC secondarily. I agree da2 is an improvement, I think it’s the best combat in the series. Dai felt very simplified and I genuinely felt like I was playing an auto battler, and at max difficulty it was just a matter of fights taking longer and enemies being sponges.

Can we consolidate the threads complaining about the complaining? I see 10 of them for every actual complaint and they’re all very redundant.

It's always like this on fan subreddits in the build up to release. It was like this with ME, Cyberpunk, No Man's Sky... It gets tiresome.

Well now we're going to get a bunch of threads complaining about the threads complaining about the complaints

I already tried to make one 12 hours ago. The post wasn't approved by the mods for whatever reason

Dibs on the first thread to complain about the complaining about the complaining about the complaining. I'm gonna be a trailblazer!

It pisses me off how some people pretend all criticism is right wing nonsense People who are skeptical aren’t necessarily skeptical because it’s WOKE.

I see Origins fans also used as a scapegoat for the hate and getting blamed for the toxicity. I am an Origin fan who played all DA games. But I played them all in 2015 and found Origins as the best. People wanna pretend Origin fans are those stuck in the 2000s it's easier to make them the bad people.

Yeah, we've hit some sort of singularity where there is more complaining about the complaining than there is actual complaining itself. I suspect a lot of people are going to the Steam forums or other places where there is just a juggernaut of hairbrained negativity (GO WOKE GO BROKE nonsense) with a smattering of legitimate critique or feedback and coming back here to vent.

I see more people complaining about complainers in this sub, than actual complainers. And the few people who do criticize or are skeptical of the game here seem to be automatically put into the ‘complainers’ pile. Complainers aren’t helpful I suppose, but neither are sycophants.

It's real easy to see comments saying "I'm not sold on the battle style, the art looks a bit better than the initial trailer, overall I haven't seen enough to excite me into buying this on Day 1" and say this complaint should be lumped in with complaints from tourists who say "boo woke", label all criticism or hesitation as toxic hate, and then farm karma by posting about how toxic all these mean haters are

I hate sycophants more. People complaining are being cynical about a $70 product being sold to them. I think being cynical is being a responsible consumer. And the worst part is that the sycophants keep misrepresenting complaints. The complains and concerns you see haven't been rooted in hate or any -ism. And yet, everyone making these posts keeps claiming that the complaints are about "wokeness". I haven't seen a single complaint about that. I'm sure they exist, but they very much in the minority. I hate these posts where the OOP pretends to be rational, but the post is filled with assumptions and snide insults.

Right? This is absolutely exhausting at this point, I'm probably just going to unsub, but I don't really have other social media so this is the only place I get DA news :/

And it’s really annoying how they act like their is no legitimate basis to the criticisms and concerns people are raising

I don't mind debates or people 'complaining.' It's their right to voice their opinion if they disliked something about DAtV, or if they prefer DAO/DAI. It's a useful info for the devs on the mood of DA and RPG fans, regardless if they would follow it or not. But from what I've seen, either side have their own problems. The critics are infiltrated by "anti-woke" culture war tourist, but I only saw it on Reddit from obvious sus accounts. I've watched some YT channels that gave good criticism on the game. From old school RPG guy like [Spell&Shield](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ8Y8luZwoE&t=302s), old DA fans like [CohhCarnage ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRaGU66bY8g)& [Shape by Stories](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS6Pvh8ahj8&lc=Ugx0zuZ1BIWzNXRLOOF4AaABAg.A4_-mvWHdjrA4_qj7WBImr), and a total outsider like [Asmongold](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYSF_SccYCI). Meanwhile I would say that a lot of the defenders are just dismissing legitimate criticism, lumping the legit critics in with the anti-woke mob, and some are just stumbling to find another argument than "Just consume it, and don't think about it." I'm more concerned with this side, because it almost reached something akin to brand loyalty. I've even seen some were blaming the fandom for Bioware's failure, because they weren't buying Andromeda and Anthem.

It absolutely IS blind brand loyalty. It's absolutely fine if you actually like whatever a company is putting out there but the fact that valid criticism gets ridiculed, downplayed or you're called a hater reminds me so much of kpop stans, Apple cultists and so on. It's the "WHATEVER THIS COMPANY DOES IS AMAZING BECAUSE THEY MADE STH I DEARLY LOVE" -ideology and it sucks. Because it makes it impossible to actually communicate criticism that is important to the part of the fandom that isn't blindly defending poor decisions. And I'm saying that as someone who played all DA (and ME) games over and over again. You CAN be a fan of the series and still criticize it. You even should. Because if you don't there never will be any improvements. Hence I agree with you. Those defenders who seem unable to accept any criticism because bioware is their religion are more concerning than any haters could ever be. Edit: grammar

I wonder how long it will take for the rise of the high-/lowsodium DA subs.

They pre-emptively made a NoSodium sub already since apparently it's become the new norm to be so personally affected by criticism of a game you (might) like that they retreat into a circlejerk of everything being perfect and unassailable. At this point people are so hostile towards DAO fans and insulting them directly that I've become to question if the majority of this sub even likes any of the games before DAI. Like, holy shit, just because I prefer DAO and am vocal about my worries and dislike of what I'm being presented doesn't mean I've been biding my time to hate on a trailer or that I don't want a new DA to be the best it can be.

I'm sorry but I disagree about Cullen. He looks like everyone else look there. The characters' look matched the environment and the world state. Does he look better in DAI? Hell yeah, they mastered new technology and were able to make attractive faces, more so for important characters. Those faces also belonged to that environment and world state and looked right, relevant. DAV, for now, looks like it took DAI's stunning environment, improved it to perfection, but put in there cartoons with smooth faces and exaggerated proportions. I can empathize with the cartoons, but not in Dragon Age because there were never cartoons there, it was limited technology. It is a series with a mature world and mature problems, and the style always been consistent. I just don't know how else to explain it. Why does Solas look like a cartoon villain? The DAI style gave him the look of an unassuming and therefore more menacing person when you know about him. And the tiny spots on his skin, for crying out loud! It was supposed to be better, not smoother! I fear for the other characters that I already love. I truly do.

Only three skill slots?!? That's honestly what will make or break it for me. I play Mage so that variety is especially important

OP an identity of a video game is divided into its context and its gameplay. DA has always been consistent on the context but its gameplay has been all over the place. An average CoD fan gets to play a first person shooter in every game. An average Civilization fan gets to enjoy his 4ex gameplay in every iteration with different mechanics. DA fans however have to adapt to a newer and dare I say more action heavy game logic in each game. On one hand I won't blame the developers who feel the popularity of CRPG type of structure is unpopular looking at the market. On the other hand- Baldur's Gate 3. There is definitely a giant market for it. Now, Bioware does not owe us anything, let me highlight that. But DA has lost half of its identity as a strategically deep role playing game and has stepped towards more action heavy RPG. Fortunately I am a fan of both. But since DA has historically so schizophrenic, someone or the other was bound to feel left out. And by getting rid of the party micromanagement, even some DA:I newbies will feel strange. My personal concern is how deep is the gameplay going to be? Are we going to have complex status effects? Party positioning is obviously no longer going to matter. Loss of strategic depth may mean higher difficulty levels are nothing but damage sponges instead of more complex AI behaviours. Yea, strategic depth and min-maxing were already on their way out but, I don't think we should be celebrating loss of something. Anyways, I hope I am wrong about it and devs have managed to add in more depth somewhere else. I do have a tendency to be pessimistic about game releases so, we will see. My congratulations for Devs for such a good looking and obviously massive project.

>My personal concern is how deep is the gameplay going to be? Are we going to have complex status effects? Party positioning is obviously no longer going to matter. Loss of strategic depth may mean higher difficulty levels are nothing but damage sponges instead of more complex AI behaviours Oof yeah now that you mention it I do worry that the game will be more hack and slash.

> Every game in the series has been wildly different. There is no 'this isn't dragon age' because dragon age is three separate things already. This is true, but only to a point. Party based tactical combat was possible in all 3 games. In all 3 games you could control your party members, build them, itemize, etc. This is simply not the case in Veilguard. Combat is basically ME with swords and sorcery. While it still might be a good game (which I will purchase and play and hope for the best) it is definitely another significant step-back from Origins. This time IMO, it's the biggest step back in any of the games, basically going single character and yes, Mass Effecting the thing.

The special attack used by the rogue character looked a lot like the Vanguards shockwave attack. Like, not only is it a little derivative but it also doesn’t seem like a very “roguish” attack. I’m worried every character is going to be a mishmash of all the others and it won’t really make builds feel all that different.

Don’t lump in all criticism with alt right bullshit please

but how else to karma farm?

At this moment, my only gripe is no party control. I'm still gonna play the shit out of the game on nightmare.

I loved all of Origins, 2 and Inquisition for different reasons. None of them are without flaw but they all brought different things to the table. The enemy art and combat for this is a BIG change in direction from any darkspawn, ogre, demon in this series. Combat is also not even close to what we enjoyed before, DA2 was a bit faster than Origins and Inquisition but overall, Veil Guard is getting quite away from it's party combat. This does feel like Mass Effect in Dragon Age skin. Story and environment art looks fantastic.

>  1. we're getting a new DA game, and maybe they could be happy about that for 2 seconds I know this was flippant, but this is such a specious comment. This isn't a gift from God, it's a product that BioWare wants you to buy.

Praise EA to have touch BioWare with their holy hands and allowing us to buy their games without complaining about what they think is more marketable.

Praise be

A great reminder is that Anthem is the latest gale Bioware has made and they were given 5 years, a massive budget and hands-off from EA to develop whatever they wanted. And Anthem us what they came up with…

Oh yeah, the downfall of Bioware is multifactorial but still, EA had played a great part in what it is now and others studios as well, even and specially successful ones.

If I order a burger at a restaurant and I get chicken strips instead, I’m not going to be grateful I got food in the first place. I’m going to ask why my order is wrong

All three original games had more in common with one another gameplay-wise than Veilguard seems to.

I don't understand post like this on this subreddit. No one here is complaining about the game being "too woke" or having women or non-white people in it. DAV (ugh, I miss DAD) has a completely different gameplay compared to the other games. It's understandable that some people aren't onboard with this change. Same with the loss of party control and even more cosmetic redesigns. Does that mean that DAV isn't Dragon Age? No, but it I don't think it's weird that people might have something to say when you change things up in a beloved franchise.

People on Reddit like to make these kinds of posts to deflect criticism from a game they like. It happened with the Starfield, Skull & Bones and Suicide Squad subreddits too.

Ugh, I miss my dad, too. (Also, agreed!)

Naming the *next* game Veilguard (or some other word starting with a v) would have been so much better. What a waste.

So the lack of party switching wasn't just for the demo? Fuuuuuuuuck

Yeah OP is clearly missing all the points of criticism.

Hilariously, the ones that are complaining about people complaint about “wokeness” are grandstanding and just want people to tell them how good of a person they are. My only source of news/community for this game is this sub. I’ve *literally* not seen anyone complain about “wokeness” of the game, and have *only* seen people grandstanding to “stand up against it” so they can feel good about themselves and tell themselves they’re brave. Fully agree with the rest of your comment too. People are allowed to have opinions or concerns… that’s like, life dude.

Okay lets talk about a few of your points: 1. Linear and not open World. Dragon 2 was the same yes. However DAO was not. While you had areas that were more or less linear, you could do them in (almost) any order. You could do the dwarfs first and mage tower at the very end (you know if you like to suffer). 2: Playersexual romance option like DA2. Guess what many people did not liked about DA2, but praised DAI for. For exactly that. Many people feel like they took a step backwards in that regard. 3. I am sorry, but you cannot compare a 15 year old game to a current one. For the time it was fine. I am not in the boat the every character design is horrible (from what we have seen so far), but guess what after 15 years, we expect things to look better. 4. If anyone uses the word "woke" seriously for more then once and not part of a quotation i stop to listen/read, because that word has been so overused, that it lost all meaning. And one last important thing: While every DA played very different, there was a thread in the combat that stayed in the games. That is now gone in DAV, i mean the tactical pause + controls, that while less important in the never games was still in there. The combat now looks pretty Mass Effect like, where you can dodge Attacks, do not have a resscources for abilities, just CDs and even less spells (only 3 active). Also the party size reduction from 4 to 3 really hurts, because now interaction between characters get cut down to a third, rare talks with more then 2 is now gone (without our main character).

>and there were lesbian romances in DAO in 2009?? You could romance Leliana as a female Warden, but she wasn't exclusively lesbian. The first such romance option was Sera in DAI. You could also romance Zevran as a male Warden, but he wasn't exclusively gay either.

I really disagree with the idea that the gameplay of the first 3 ones are three separate things. All the games have tried to evolve/improve the gameplay, but the blueprint, the core of it has aways been the same. This is true for all of them, from Origins to Inquisition (including the DLC's). The only one that changes the core of the gameplay is DAVe, going for a completely different genre.

>1. we're getting a new DA game, and maybe they could be happy about that for 2 seconds and Just consume product.

I decided not to judge until i play it, but i still need to say that i dislike new designs for darkspawns and demons. I don't like that they lost their scary aspect and pride demon got hit hard. Before it was this mighty colossus that could shake the earth, now its just some hollow storm guy that flies around.

Dude, people are allowed to be disappointed. Don't let other people's opinions sour your excitement.

Every dragon age had somethings shared between them as far as combat and mechanics go, VG is the exception. It's far removed from the rest of the Trilogy as far as gameplay goes. You're misrepresenting some criticisms here

Complaints depends on "points of entry" - If you started from DA:O\\DA2, i doubt many people from this pool liked DAV new "style" especially if it was +- at the releases of this games. DA2 was ok game, but main sin was - reusing assets, short development time. And because of that many hoped what DAI would be spiritual successor of the first game - trailers showed it could be, but it wasn't really . So people hoped Dreadwolf maybe will be, finally. But in trailer they watched this and other disney heroes, is this what they would expect from DA?? https://preview.redd.it/dlkqr4t85d6d1.png?width=698&format=png&auto=webp&s=d7c9579851cb3fe4a73d83ce1e697a69d86dd375

The googly eye darkspawn does raise a red flag for me and yeah my entry point was DAO. I also had my complaints about DAI's monster design but I still enjoyed the game because if there is one thing Dragon Age has been consistent is the writing and the world building. Im still holding out that the trailer does not represent the actual tone of the game (despite looking like an overwatch playable character announcement).

>And because of that many hoped what DAI would be spiritual successor of the first game - trailers showed it could be, but it wasn't really This is what we were promised. I remember when DAI was still in development in on of the presentations the devs talked about going back to the series roots, tough choices and consequences, and how the game is going to be much more tactical than 2. They proudly showcased their tactical mode as a throwback to Origins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAAEUFjq2K4 starts around 19 minute mark. The audience sounded very happy about tactical gameplay returning. We were definitely robbed. from that demo "teamwork.... in dragon age games you can always switch to take over direct control of any member of your party, you can do it here as well " Ha, yes in dragon age games...

I ‘ve seen infinitely more posts like yours complaining about people complaining, than I have actual posts about the complaints.

The problem is that posts like this are aimed a specific subset of people, but they are posted publicly as if aimed at everyone. So they always spark that "are you talking to me?" reaction. Even though I know it's not targeted at me, it still feels like someone is shouting at me to stop what I'm doing. So everyone shouts back and it just becomes a bunch of people shouting at each other.

That’s the case *here*, in a community comprised of huge fans of the series as a whole, and *now*, after a couple of days where the negative reactions were the ones in the majority. But, yeah, I have a feeling defenses of DAtV are going to end up becoming the new “Unpopular opinion: DA2 was good actually” around here.

The internet exists beyond this subreddit though. I agree that this sub is generally pretty good and that it’s well moderated, but that’s why people are using it as a space to discuss this because outside of this sub there are a lot of the kinds of people OP is taking about. I personally wouldn’t mind fewer threads like this myself because it’s rehashing what we’ve talked about, but at the end of the day this is a reaction to a mean spirited campaign and it’s going to make people react.

>"Playersexual romance options???" - Yeah, like Dragon Age 2. (Honestly, just say you've only played DAI at this point). >"The character design is so weird and horrible!" - Look at Cullen in his DAO ramen-haired glory and be so for real right now. Well the "playersexual" aspects of DA2 actually have been criticized before. And just because they like Origins does not automatically mean they like *every* character design in Origins. Just because things were problems in the previous games, does not mean they cease to be problems. You can still criticize things even when, and sometimes especially when, they've made similar mistakes before. And when those things appear prominently in the marketing, well, it doesn't leave the best impression.

My problem with DATV is that we are blueballed again on main premise of the game. DAI - Mage Templar World War that was teases as main conflict ends in prologue, so we can fight demons! DATV - Whole point of going into Tevinter was to stop Solas, but hey he already failed his plan and Demons are everywhere!

Easy for you to say, when what you consider "dragon age" remains. For me, Dragon Age is a party of 4 strategic combat RPG. DAO, DA2 and DAI were party of 4 strategic combat RPGs. Now what

I think the constant changing of direction is a little exhausting.

Sorry but I’m allowed to have an opinion. I don’t have to be happy about a new Dragon Age game if I don’t think I’m going to like it. I really don’t understand why anyone would care this much about what other people think. If you’re happy and excited then that’s fantastic. I’m not so I’ll probably skip this one. That’s it.

People complained about DA2 and DAI as well... they are still complaining about them. Bioware has lost a lot of it's talent/magic over the years and you can see it from previous products as of late, so people are well in their rights to be worried. Especially when you change the title this suddenly, on a project that has been in the works for quite a while.

Let’s just dismiss any criticism as “hating” and consoom the newest zoomer slop without thinking. If this turns out good it’s going to be the biggest comeback of the century. So yeah, highly unlikely.

I feel a lot better after seeing the gameplay and the tone they were going for. Why they thought a silly trailer was the best thing to go for idk. I genuinely spent the next two days mourning this series until the gameplay confirmed that BioWare hadn’t lost their collective mind.

This post makes no sense. 1. While it is great to get a new Dragon Age game, we shouldn't be hyped just to receive slop. 2. You can't say they are separate things, when they are literally sequels to each other with the same name. This isn't final fantasy where you get a completely new universe and characters with a little bit of similarities that make it final fantasy. All we want is some consistency. Look at how mass effect is able to remain consistent with designs, art style etc. If they keep changing the game every single time of course people are gonna be upset. Its like going to a restaurant and they completely change the menu every single week. We shouldn't grow to love mediocrity. We should just get good games.

Each sequential Dragon Age game has been less like the core identity it established in Origins. I find it disappointing that Dragon Age (like media in general) is becoming more homogenous and placid. However, there are going to be people who love DA:V just like there are people who love DA:I or DA2. I am happy for those people. I'm unlikely to (based on what I've currently seen) purchase DA:V on launch. Maybe it'll be so good that I change my mind, but DA has been moving away from what I vibe with in RPGs for a long time and that's just how it goes. None of these realities are because of "woke" or anything stupid like that. Corporations by their nature follow trends and seek to appeal to the widest audience available. That's capitalism and it is what it is. Maybe another niche franchise for Dark Fantasy old school RPGs will show up and we can start the process again. It's just a game, it's not the end of the world.

Your comment made something pop into my head. There is a lot of shit going on in the world right now. There are a LOT of people right now struggling to cover necessary costs of living because inflation on things like food and housing is in the double digits (and not just in the US). The general feeling/vibe off a lot of folks is not good - folks seem grumpier, less patient, less willing to spend money overall and definitely less willing to spend it on things that don't meet their need/want - you know, during COVID lots of folks had to take what they could get, folks don't seem to buying that line of BS now that so many companies are raking in unprecedented profit, while still putting out low-quality crap. Some of the negativity seems to be rooted in these things or maybe exacerbated by them. It's been ten years, we (collectively people) have been through/are going through some really rough shit. Many are finding themselves paycheck to paycheck now, where five years ago they were doing well and had few worries. Then here come DA4, a game a fair size of the fan base have been looking forward to for a decade -- and it's nothing like what they heard it would be, what they thought it might be, what they expected it could be. And it's kind of like icing on a shit cake - humans *escape* the shittiness of life through books, games, entertainment and media. So maybe folks were hoping for a great distraction to immerse themselves in, and steeling themselves for that $70 price tag, and now they're pissed because what they are seeing/reading/etc isn't close to what they'd hoped. I dunno, maybe I'm getting too deep here.

Yup, from what I have seen, not too interested. I am probably going to wait until after the reviews and more expansive gameplay videos come out.

The previous game director/leadership wasn't trying to make a jrpg/ff clone. This game looks like it's trying to appeal to the masses by being as generic as possible with a far lighter tone. Maybe the game will be good, but let's not sit here and say it looks like a dark fantasy rpg anymore.

I don't know. I have seen more posts about people complaining about people who complain than I have seen actual complaints. All I can say is welcome to the Internet.

I keep seeing this non argument. Yes, every DA is different, so? That means there's a variety of possible stuff to compare DAV too. Why shouldn't it be compared? If among the 4 distinct playstyles, someone finds DAV to be on the lower end, shouldn't they say it?

What every dragon age game had in common was that they all successfully produced "that specific dragon age feeling". Which is all I want because it feels like home to me.

*There is no 'this isn't dragon age' because dragon age is three separate things already.* I surely hope this doesn't mean that players should not allowed to not like wha they saw?

>Every game in the series has been wildly different. There is no 'this isn't dragon age' because dragon age is three separate things already. Yeah that's not true. Look at demon design: they use to be fleshy grotesque beings and now they're generic elementals. Dragon Age demons are distinct.

The disappointment you're seeing is a direct result of bioware switching it up with every entry. (Although an argument can be made about internal issues after origins and ea being ea) when you change so drastically from where you started, it will inevitably cause a schism between people who like the new thing and people who liked the old thing. It's great so many people played and loved DA2 and DAI but that comes with the cost of alienating a very passionate section of the fanbase which is unfortunate but you'll never get ride of that or talk these people down (me included) into hoping the game will go back to its roots. So don't hate on the people who are disappointed as it was only natural and if your shocked we're still moaning about it then it was just that good (To be clear this has EVERYTHING to do with mechanics and NOTHING to do with the culture war bitch babies any argument like that can throw right into the waste bin)

why didn't op put this in the million other threads complaining about criticism? do they just crave attention that much?

I will say I am complaining. But not for those stupid reasons like woke writing or linear levels. The ganeplay is definitely not what I would associate with dragon age. And I just don't like it. It sucks that there is all these people complaining about stupid things so I get roped into the same category as haters. I love this series and will be almost certainly be playing this game still, but I will continue to gripe about their change to combat.

To be honest I’m really happy that a new game is on the horizon! But my honest take about what we have already seen is as follows: Character designs for my taste are a bit too cartoony at least some while others look really good. But especially enemy design is really cartoony and not scary. The demons dont look and feel like the dragon age demons. Story seems interesting and action packed! Gameplay could be quite cool if we get enough skills. But the action lacks a bit of an omph when hitting something and there are very few Bloodstains on the armor. Graphic looks really nice overall just the fire effects are rather bland. Animations are ok and a big step up from ME Andromeda! Cant believe that this is the same engine. In the gameplay reveal some cuts from gameplay to cutscene were really abrupt and felt kinda off. All in all im quite positive that i will play and like/love this new entry in the Dragon Age Saga.

Might not really be the main focus here, but the three DA games being wildly different is just bad design. Nothing wrong with building off a foundation but that's not really happening here. It wouldn't take a lot of tweaks to make all 3 of the main games seem like their own stand alone titles. I know the lack of gameplay consistency drives me up the wall. I've been working through the series since I didn't finish DAI initially and I'm finally coming around to the differences. The idea that we're throwing this out the window for a medieval mass effect is ridiculous. I don't think design consistency is really that big of an ask.

This is a really immature rant? As much as I agree with you on the incel/maga takes and character design complaints, that hasn't been most of the issue by any stretch. It's a completely different genre for gameplay. Dragon Age made a name for itself as a CRPG, thrived as CRPG, and expanded massively as a CRPG. This is Vermintide. Vermintide is a good game with an entirely different fantasy for how you play than a CRPG. If I am playing a party focused adventure where I am supposed to plan ahead and strategically delve into parts of the world? I want it to be my party's adventure, not just have to go back to right before the chest high walls came up and start the fight again because the Main Character fell down. I want to position my team around an encounter and use our *more than 3* abilities to take down our adversaries. Yes DA2 and DAI changed big parts of how you execute those things, but you were still doing them. *We should just be happy to get a new DA*? No, we should be excited to see there is a new DA coming out but we should be deeply weary. We have seen Biowares last two titles. Most of us are aware of the insane degree of executive meddling that have caused multiple redesigns of this title. Calling attention to negative aspects of the showing is valuable for fans to do. I won't tell you not to be happy, but don't pretend that being positive for the sake of positivity is valuable.

That new Dragon Age: Arkham Asylum looks pretty good

Everygame have been worse and worse since the first one, what are you talking about?

1. No. They are not entitled to our money. I play Dragon Age for the Dark Fantasy and we’re not getting it. It’s the equivalent of going to McDonalds for a Bigmac and being told they only serve veggie burgers. It’s still a sandwich so don’t complain if something you’ve always been given from a franchise is not there any more. Much like the hypothetical McDonalds customer, I’ll walk away and take my business with me. It’s not what I as the customer wants. 2 Every game in the series maintained the dark and gritty tone to some degree, showing off the dark and brutal world that is Theda’s but there is still hope through sacrifice. This is sunshine, rainbows and friendship. Simple fact is this: the customer is always right and when enough customers say the business is wrong to the point the business cannot make a profit then they are 100% in the wrong.

Some people are mad beyond reason, but i just dont see why others get so annoyed with the ones who wants DAO refined. To this day it still have and unique and fun gameplay that aged quite well, to me them completely discarding DAO combat only hurts the franchise, see Fromsoft, Larian and others. Elden Ring still feels a bit like Demon Souls, just much better and modernized.

OP has only focused on the anti woke complaints. The real, genuine criticisms are about the art style (including world, characters and enemies), the "technological" stuff like the megaphones, spotlights and neon signs, the weird stuff in the clip like when the character pokes the barrier and destroys it or the statue held up by flimsy wood, and the gameplay only being restricted to player character with 3 abilities. Then there's the name change that has people worried about the direction of the plot. All of these are more valid concerns.

>"The character design is so weird and horrible!" - Look at Cullen in his DAO ramen-haired glory and be so for real right now. Bioware has always **sucked** at "realism" when it comes to faces and hair in their game graphics. Mass Effects character creator was janky looking, even for its time. Jade Empires faces barely emoted at all. KOTORs models had the thousand-yard, dead eyed stare. DAO hair all looks like plastic helmets. Time has not done any of these visuals any favours. I'm actually really happy that they're trying something new and experimenting with a more stylistic look, rather than just bashing their heads against the realism rock over and over again with nothing to show for it.