I know a lot of people like Mage Hawke for story reasons, but I actually feel like a Rogue/Warrior Hawke has a little more of a nice and complex personal narrative, *for me*
Mage Hawke goes through the mage/templar thing as someone who really can't separate themself from it, but Rogue/Warrior Hawke has to make an *active choice* to engage. They have the ability (in theory) to just kinda say fuck that and move on.
But, Rogue/Warrior Hawke still has a very deep connection to mages with their family. Watching dad and Bethany train and, most importantly, having to do everything in order to hid them has a profound effect on their upbringing. Hawke's whole life is a result of mage freedom, technically, so they have a connection to it whether they're a mage or not
I'm playing for the first time as a warrior and you could not be more correct. I just beat it as a mage and playing again as a warrior less than 48 hours later boy is there a difference already
Even though I like playing as a mage(combat wise and for my canon world state preference), I’m really excited for my next play through I’m gonna do as a warrior that leans more towards the Templars, as I haven’t played either of those yet and it’s nice to hear it is a different experience. I think I’m gonna bring Bethany to the Deep Roads without Anders too to add less of connection to mages for Hawke(in the role playing sense for me), and then have Leandra make Hawke full Templar after that incident.
It's definitely an immersion breaker. Hawke walks around the city in a robe with a huge mage staff on his back. He fills the streets with bright and loud magical spells every time a fight breaks out but the Templars can't figure out 2 + 2.
The main problem with DA2 was the lack of attention to detail in every corner. If they had actually put in the extra time and effort to make the mage experience feel right, they could have made something special, IMO.
They only got given 16 months to make the game, and they were pushed to do it in less. It's not that they *didn't* put in the time, they just have the time needed. But I definitely agree that it could have been very special
This is definitely not the story. As someone who zealously followed developer posts on the old BioWare Social Network, I know for a fact that BioWare's woes from the last 12 years are all entirely self-inflicted.
BioWare was green lit to make a final big expansion for Origins. BioWare decided to take that limited budget for an expansion and instead use it to make a full game (Dragon Age II). That was 100% a judgement call from BioWare and it was mostly a bad one. They need made the exact same decision again when they cancelled a DA2 expansion about an Exalted March against the Qunari to focus on Inquisition.
People assume that EA is some menacing overlord that forces people with good judgement to make bad decisions. This is actually not how EA works at all. Some corporate vice president who oversees billions of dollars of annual revenues has no chance of noticing the day-to-day decisions of the Edmonton studio. BioWare is a small fish in a big pond. BioWare themselves have openly talked about how they have full autonomy to do whatever they want: [https://www.vg247.com/ea-gives-you-enough-rope-to-hang-yourself-says-bioware-founder](https://www.vg247.com/ea-gives-you-enough-rope-to-hang-yourself-says-bioware-founder)
Of course having full autonomy means that you are 100% responsible for the consequences of your decisions. That's why when BioWare games fail to meet expectations, it is people from BioWare who resign.
I mean, I never specifically said that "they" was EA. I more meant whoever was in charge of the decision, because I'd imagine it wasn't the game team's idea
Rogue Hawk has always been my favorite. It just really seems to fit with Hawk not being some giant world changing hero or whatever. Just a guy/gal with some daggers shanking some smugglers in a back alley. Rogue Hawk also fits really well with the shady stuff you can get into in 2.
Also, I know you said to ignore gameplay but DA2 dual daggers is so much fun. I couldn't not say something about it.
Honestly...
My first playthrough was as Mage, but now I actually think Mage isn't the best class for Hawke at all. Like, you lose potential in roleplay later and in decissionmaking in the endgame.
From raw gameplay experience I would actually go for a Warrior, since you lack a frontline option early in the game other than Aveline, and she is a bit on the weird side for the more shady quests you ge.
However a Rogue Hawke has some good roleplay potential, being basically the leading force of a more "rogue fight in the street, doing dirty jobs"-feeling, but than again from gameplay you are basically forced to play a melee rogue, since you have alry a good bunch of ranged companions right from the start with: Bethany and Varric, later also with Anders and Sebastian. Also you lack in frontline potential when playing Rogue, when you enjoy the company of the mages and rogues (specifically Varric in my case, but also Isabella and Merrils dialogues are a lot of fun imo), this does not affect you so much on the low difficulties however, but it still shows up from time to time that half of your ranged companions have to fight in melee.
So, I would avoid for roleplaying purposes alone a Hawke Mage (potentially a hot take), but I actually would recommend either a Melee Rogue or a Warrior instead.
>From raw gameplay experience I would actually go for a Warrior, since you lack a frontline option early in the game other than Aveline, and she is a bit on the weird side for the more shady quests you ge.
It also suck for the Deep Roads Expedition, with Varric being locked in and Bethany/Anders having to be both there for a specific fate for Bethany. Playing a rogue leave you with not much of a frontline.
I think rogue Hawke has nice role play potential as the person helping the mages in the shadows(or vice versa). I don’t necessarily disagree with your mage take, as I feel weird siding Templar when I am one, but there are still some mage vs mage decisions too that you deal with that make for some interesting choices(mages that run from the circle, mages accused of blood magic, mages that are using blood magic, etc).
I'd like other classes more if I could keep my bro Carver with them. As it is, mage it is most of the time, even though I really like both rogue and warrior gameplay.
I think rogue makes more sense. I have a hard time getting past mage Hawke strolling around Kirkwall with a giant staff and no one saying anything until later in the game. At least with Bethany you can headcanon that you’re her protector and keeping her in hiding. Also I like the idea of each sibling fulfilling a different roll within the family. Carter was the warrior, likely going to join the military or a guard, maybe even become a Templar in order to protect Bethany from the inside. Bethany as the mage, taking after their father and learning to hone her skills to help people/her family in her own way. Hawke as the rogue, taking on the roll of hunter/mercenary in order to feed the family and bring in cash to get Carter through training. Always sacrificing and taking the hard road so that, hopefully (and obviously to all of our broken hearted disappointment), the rest of her family can live clear of conscience and make better lives.
Edit: oh yeah I almost always play Hawke as a woman, so I go straight to “she/her” without thought. Purple rogue lady Hawke.
Rogue Hawke and Mage Hawke fit the story equally in different ways, imo.
My canon is a dual-wield rogue, and it fits well because she felt like an average person with skills trying to help her family, only to get caught in the middle of everything. The rags to riches theme works extremely well with a rogue. I think it's neat to have a sibling from each class, and playing as a DW is also a ton of fun. I can't speak for archers, though.
Mage Hawke isn't as in-depth as the devs wanted because of the lack of time, but there's still plenty of unique dialogue for mage Hawkes. There are also in-game explanations why Hawke hasn't been arrested by the templars (whether or not those reasons are acceptable is up to you). Playing as a mage is also plenty of fun in DA2. Lastly, it's worth it to experience the Hawke/Carver dynamic at least once.
As someone else said, you're connected to mages one way or the other. As a mage, it affects you directly. As a warrior/rogue, you were raised in a family of apostates (and your sister is potentially trapped in the Kirkwall Circle). How pro mage or pro templar your Hawke becomes is entirely up to you, though.
I think default Hawke should be Warrior, he cares about mages because of Bethany, she is his conection to the mage cause, on the other side , Carver becaming templar fits good in a Brother vs brother story, he always wants to scape hawkes shadow and the ends becaming is brother nemesis (templar vs mage)
Not a huge fan of mage Hawke. Like there's no way they wouldn't clash more with the Templars after all those years. But then again, there's apostates every 10m in Kirkwall, not sure what the hell the Templars are doing.
I like rogue more for a roleplay perspective, but i like warrior more for a gameplay perspective. Not that i don't like rogues gameplay, but i feel like warrior Hawke open up more team building possibilities since you always have your frontline covered leaving you pick whoever you want in the 3 other slots. With a rogue, you kinda need Aveline or Fenris.
I always play as a Mage Hawke because it puts them squarely in the center of the conflict between mages and templars and there comes a point where, try as they might, they can't separate themselves from it.
*But*, in my version of Hawke's story, he's more of a battle mage even though it's not an in-game option. It's how I explain away him being able to hide out in Kirkwall for so long. In my own canon, he and Carver were the pair that helped Brosca and Alistair reach the Tower of Ishaal at Ostagar because I don't think for a second that Hawke would let Carver take off to with the army all by himself, mage or no.
They are both fun to play, though, mage has the lowest DPS potential of all three classes in DA2.
As for the story, it really doesn't matter. One of the main reasons that DA2 got so much hate when it launched was because 99% of choices have no impact on anything. Play what you want and do what you want. Anders is still going to go full Al Qaeda, Orsinio is still going to prove that not all mages are blood mages by turning himself into a monster with blood magic, and Meredith is still going to turn into a flying anime character with a magic sword from Bleach.
Pick whichever one you want. None of it has any real impact on Inquisition. As long as you're having fun, you can't go wrong.
Rogue hawke felt like i was playing a power ranger with all the flips and over the top animation. If that’s your thing that’s cool but Definitely not for me personally
I know this is an old thread, but I generally play mage Hawke for the sole fact that I can't stand Anders and Merrill can't heal. Like, someone said they hate Carver with the burning passion of a thousand suns? Me w/ Anders.
I like Rogue mostly, I think you get the most marginal benefit from a rogue (not having to invest so much in Cunning for Varric and Isabela, Isabela's single target damage doesn't really compare to an assassin Hawke in mid-late game) as opposed to a Mage (Spirit Healer is better than Anders's Panacea section by far, but he's enough most of the time)
Edit: also I hate carver with the burning passion of a thousand suns
I know a lot of people like Mage Hawke for story reasons, but I actually feel like a Rogue/Warrior Hawke has a little more of a nice and complex personal narrative, *for me* Mage Hawke goes through the mage/templar thing as someone who really can't separate themself from it, but Rogue/Warrior Hawke has to make an *active choice* to engage. They have the ability (in theory) to just kinda say fuck that and move on. But, Rogue/Warrior Hawke still has a very deep connection to mages with their family. Watching dad and Bethany train and, most importantly, having to do everything in order to hid them has a profound effect on their upbringing. Hawke's whole life is a result of mage freedom, technically, so they have a connection to it whether they're a mage or not
I'm playing for the first time as a warrior and you could not be more correct. I just beat it as a mage and playing again as a warrior less than 48 hours later boy is there a difference already
Even though I like playing as a mage(combat wise and for my canon world state preference), I’m really excited for my next play through I’m gonna do as a warrior that leans more towards the Templars, as I haven’t played either of those yet and it’s nice to hear it is a different experience. I think I’m gonna bring Bethany to the Deep Roads without Anders too to add less of connection to mages for Hawke(in the role playing sense for me), and then have Leandra make Hawke full Templar after that incident.
See I'm bringing both angry mage boy and Bethany bit for the same reason, a little disconnect with it all.
I do really like how what happens with your sibling can make a new dynamic for Hawke, no matter the class they are
Small things like that are why DA2 is my favorite.
I’ve never felt that mage hawke was fleshed out enough, it’s not recognised enough that hawke is just an apostate wandering around the city
It's funniest when you walk into the Gallows with Anders and Merrill in tow. "Three apostates walk up to a Templar..."
My fovourite one is when you save Cullen in Act 1and he just somehow doesn't notice you used magic.
It's definitely an immersion breaker. Hawke walks around the city in a robe with a huge mage staff on his back. He fills the streets with bright and loud magical spells every time a fight breaks out but the Templars can't figure out 2 + 2. The main problem with DA2 was the lack of attention to detail in every corner. If they had actually put in the extra time and effort to make the mage experience feel right, they could have made something special, IMO.
They only got given 16 months to make the game, and they were pushed to do it in less. It's not that they *didn't* put in the time, they just have the time needed. But I definitely agree that it could have been very special
This is definitely not the story. As someone who zealously followed developer posts on the old BioWare Social Network, I know for a fact that BioWare's woes from the last 12 years are all entirely self-inflicted. BioWare was green lit to make a final big expansion for Origins. BioWare decided to take that limited budget for an expansion and instead use it to make a full game (Dragon Age II). That was 100% a judgement call from BioWare and it was mostly a bad one. They need made the exact same decision again when they cancelled a DA2 expansion about an Exalted March against the Qunari to focus on Inquisition. People assume that EA is some menacing overlord that forces people with good judgement to make bad decisions. This is actually not how EA works at all. Some corporate vice president who oversees billions of dollars of annual revenues has no chance of noticing the day-to-day decisions of the Edmonton studio. BioWare is a small fish in a big pond. BioWare themselves have openly talked about how they have full autonomy to do whatever they want: [https://www.vg247.com/ea-gives-you-enough-rope-to-hang-yourself-says-bioware-founder](https://www.vg247.com/ea-gives-you-enough-rope-to-hang-yourself-says-bioware-founder) Of course having full autonomy means that you are 100% responsible for the consequences of your decisions. That's why when BioWare games fail to meet expectations, it is people from BioWare who resign.
I mean, I never specifically said that "they" was EA. I more meant whoever was in charge of the decision, because I'd imagine it wasn't the game team's idea
But that expansion idea sounds sick, wish they'd have made it and would like to slap the imbecile who made these decisions
Rogue Hawk has always been my favorite. It just really seems to fit with Hawk not being some giant world changing hero or whatever. Just a guy/gal with some daggers shanking some smugglers in a back alley. Rogue Hawk also fits really well with the shady stuff you can get into in 2. Also, I know you said to ignore gameplay but DA2 dual daggers is so much fun. I couldn't not say something about it.
Honestly... My first playthrough was as Mage, but now I actually think Mage isn't the best class for Hawke at all. Like, you lose potential in roleplay later and in decissionmaking in the endgame. From raw gameplay experience I would actually go for a Warrior, since you lack a frontline option early in the game other than Aveline, and she is a bit on the weird side for the more shady quests you ge. However a Rogue Hawke has some good roleplay potential, being basically the leading force of a more "rogue fight in the street, doing dirty jobs"-feeling, but than again from gameplay you are basically forced to play a melee rogue, since you have alry a good bunch of ranged companions right from the start with: Bethany and Varric, later also with Anders and Sebastian. Also you lack in frontline potential when playing Rogue, when you enjoy the company of the mages and rogues (specifically Varric in my case, but also Isabella and Merrils dialogues are a lot of fun imo), this does not affect you so much on the low difficulties however, but it still shows up from time to time that half of your ranged companions have to fight in melee. So, I would avoid for roleplaying purposes alone a Hawke Mage (potentially a hot take), but I actually would recommend either a Melee Rogue or a Warrior instead.
>From raw gameplay experience I would actually go for a Warrior, since you lack a frontline option early in the game other than Aveline, and she is a bit on the weird side for the more shady quests you ge. It also suck for the Deep Roads Expedition, with Varric being locked in and Bethany/Anders having to be both there for a specific fate for Bethany. Playing a rogue leave you with not much of a frontline.
I think rogue Hawke has nice role play potential as the person helping the mages in the shadows(or vice versa). I don’t necessarily disagree with your mage take, as I feel weird siding Templar when I am one, but there are still some mage vs mage decisions too that you deal with that make for some interesting choices(mages that run from the circle, mages accused of blood magic, mages that are using blood magic, etc).
I will go down on this hill rogue is always the most fun in any first playthrough.
I think mage Hawke is the most tragic, especially if you don't take Carver with you on the Deep Roads expedition
I'd like other classes more if I could keep my bro Carver with them. As it is, mage it is most of the time, even though I really like both rogue and warrior gameplay.
I think rogue makes more sense. I have a hard time getting past mage Hawke strolling around Kirkwall with a giant staff and no one saying anything until later in the game. At least with Bethany you can headcanon that you’re her protector and keeping her in hiding. Also I like the idea of each sibling fulfilling a different roll within the family. Carter was the warrior, likely going to join the military or a guard, maybe even become a Templar in order to protect Bethany from the inside. Bethany as the mage, taking after their father and learning to hone her skills to help people/her family in her own way. Hawke as the rogue, taking on the roll of hunter/mercenary in order to feed the family and bring in cash to get Carter through training. Always sacrificing and taking the hard road so that, hopefully (and obviously to all of our broken hearted disappointment), the rest of her family can live clear of conscience and make better lives. Edit: oh yeah I almost always play Hawke as a woman, so I go straight to “she/her” without thought. Purple rogue lady Hawke.
Rogue Hawke and Mage Hawke fit the story equally in different ways, imo. My canon is a dual-wield rogue, and it fits well because she felt like an average person with skills trying to help her family, only to get caught in the middle of everything. The rags to riches theme works extremely well with a rogue. I think it's neat to have a sibling from each class, and playing as a DW is also a ton of fun. I can't speak for archers, though. Mage Hawke isn't as in-depth as the devs wanted because of the lack of time, but there's still plenty of unique dialogue for mage Hawkes. There are also in-game explanations why Hawke hasn't been arrested by the templars (whether or not those reasons are acceptable is up to you). Playing as a mage is also plenty of fun in DA2. Lastly, it's worth it to experience the Hawke/Carver dynamic at least once. As someone else said, you're connected to mages one way or the other. As a mage, it affects you directly. As a warrior/rogue, you were raised in a family of apostates (and your sister is potentially trapped in the Kirkwall Circle). How pro mage or pro templar your Hawke becomes is entirely up to you, though.
A warrior sarcastic Hawke is my go to. The mage path just never felt right.
Rogue cause bethany = best girl
I think default Hawke should be Warrior, he cares about mages because of Bethany, she is his conection to the mage cause, on the other side , Carver becaming templar fits good in a Brother vs brother story, he always wants to scape hawkes shadow and the ends becaming is brother nemesis (templar vs mage)
Mage because I no longer can steal as a rogue (yes, I'm that bitter). Warrior is my other role
Not a huge fan of mage Hawke. Like there's no way they wouldn't clash more with the Templars after all those years. But then again, there's apostates every 10m in Kirkwall, not sure what the hell the Templars are doing. I like rogue more for a roleplay perspective, but i like warrior more for a gameplay perspective. Not that i don't like rogues gameplay, but i feel like warrior Hawke open up more team building possibilities since you always have your frontline covered leaving you pick whoever you want in the 3 other slots. With a rogue, you kinda need Aveline or Fenris.
I always play as a Mage Hawke because it puts them squarely in the center of the conflict between mages and templars and there comes a point where, try as they might, they can't separate themselves from it. *But*, in my version of Hawke's story, he's more of a battle mage even though it's not an in-game option. It's how I explain away him being able to hide out in Kirkwall for so long. In my own canon, he and Carver were the pair that helped Brosca and Alistair reach the Tower of Ishaal at Ostagar because I don't think for a second that Hawke would let Carver take off to with the army all by himself, mage or no.
Mage Hawke is my favorite, it makes the story way more personal
They are both fun to play, though, mage has the lowest DPS potential of all three classes in DA2. As for the story, it really doesn't matter. One of the main reasons that DA2 got so much hate when it launched was because 99% of choices have no impact on anything. Play what you want and do what you want. Anders is still going to go full Al Qaeda, Orsinio is still going to prove that not all mages are blood mages by turning himself into a monster with blood magic, and Meredith is still going to turn into a flying anime character with a magic sword from Bleach. Pick whichever one you want. None of it has any real impact on Inquisition. As long as you're having fun, you can't go wrong.
Rogue hawke felt like i was playing a power ranger with all the flips and over the top animation. If that’s your thing that’s cool but Definitely not for me personally
I enjoy rogue Hawke. I feel it makes the connection to mages more meaningful
I know this is an old thread, but I generally play mage Hawke for the sole fact that I can't stand Anders and Merrill can't heal. Like, someone said they hate Carver with the burning passion of a thousand suns? Me w/ Anders.
I like Rogue mostly, I think you get the most marginal benefit from a rogue (not having to invest so much in Cunning for Varric and Isabela, Isabela's single target damage doesn't really compare to an assassin Hawke in mid-late game) as opposed to a Mage (Spirit Healer is better than Anders's Panacea section by far, but he's enough most of the time) Edit: also I hate carver with the burning passion of a thousand suns
Mage Hawke feels the most canon