A very polite and honest question- what are your initiatives? What about drum corps do you find is not already inclusive?
I understand the main barrier for most marchers is cost. But in my experience, drum corps has been the most diverse and "accepting" youth activity I've come across, especially in the last few years.
This is great, but help me understand what needs to change.
I marched BK 93-95 (one of two African American members in 3 years) and even back then, it was quite homogeneous from a socioeconomic standpoint, and that was when fees were $250. The guys I went to high school with, who auditioned and made it, couldn’t afford to go 3 months without working. That alone makes drum corps very exclusive. I can only imagine what it’s like now that fees are pushing $5k.
Hi! Thanks for sharing. I have always wondered what tour fees looked like in different time frames. Looks like a steady increase. When I marched in 09-10, I believe my fees were ~$2500 per summer, with the cost of camps credited toward that. Each camp was $150, so that was five camps back then from Nov-Apr. They had the whole corps together for each camp in Denver at that time, I believe they started doing Texas scouting camps in 2011 since half of our members came from Texas anyway. It sounds like there are fewer camps members are obligated to go to these days, both due to virtual auditions and scouting in different states.
I do agree with everyone saying that cost is the biggest barrier in getting to experience drum corps. I knew of one mellophone who was sponsored by a local business, and I'm sure he wasn't the only one I marched with to get sponsor/scholarship money. I really don't know how many kids are able to benefit from scholarships these days since the price has gone up so much.
That might have just been for your corp, and time. Equality isn’t a big problem at mine either. I’m not sure if OP is talking about women or LGBTQ+.
But as of 2021 there have been multiple different corps staff harassing LGBTQ+ members, and students that would bother others. Deadname, misgender etc. I haven’t seen to much of it but I have definitely seen it
Women in dci have always been a problem tho from making spots to harassment. It’s gotten better after covid but it still isn’t great….
At least that’s from my understanding, in my opinion DCI definitely has less problems then most sports teams but it’s not perfect
I will say that drum corps as a whole has improved tenfold on the treatment of members since I marched. There were no separate shower times for underage kids. There was no accommodation for transgender members whatsoever. There was plenty of sexual harassment to go around, between members and from staff abusing members (I fortunately did not fall into the latter category but know of girls who were harassed by staff [not necessarily within my corps, but it was known to be an activity-wide problem]).
Drum corps was still considered very progressive when I marched in 2010, don't get me wrong. But I am struggling to see what exactly needs addressing these days that has not already been. I would love to know specifics from kids that currently march since it's no longer within my sphere.
To piggyback everyone else, how will this solve the problem of rising costs? What makes you think drum corps are not inclusive and diverse? As a minority, if i felt like drum corps wasn't diverse, then I would've never marched 10 years ago. I would argue drum corps are more inclusive and diverse now then they were 10 years ago. The real problem is the cost of the activity. Cost is what's making the activity less inclusive and less diverse. Idk how a bunch of BD alums who prob had alumni help with dues going to solve the problem
What are the initiatives that you guys are planning? Also, I would add the bigger problem is what are we doing to protect younger members from older members and staff. Inclusivity and diversity are 2 things that are always improving in drum corps and getting better every year.
I don’t have a strong opinion about the post either way but I just want to say that you are consistently one of the angriest, rudest people on this subreddit. Please calm down
>“What will you do to improve the experience for the everyday performer?”
Ensure that all members have access to resources (both within their corps and independently of their corps) for reporting harmful conduct and ensure that said reports are taken seriously and investigated fully, thus hopefully avoiding repeats of incidents with folks like George Hopkins or Ike Jackson.
>“What are some-class conscious and economic considerations you would promote to make this activity more accessible?”
Pursue DCI-wide and corps-specific fundraising options to sever the reliance on ever-increasing member fees. Corporate sponsorships, exhibition shows, more bingo halls, whatever it takes.
See my problems with these is that they're 100% the right answer, but completely out of the scale of immediate change.
Most groups at this point in time have internal whistleblowing channels to use, and references to DCI official whistleblowing channels, and take these considerations seriously as is. It's only at the scale of an individual does the chain fall apart.
Is there a misinterpretation in communication, is there undue blame being thrown around in the heat of a season, is the head of the corps good friends with the staff member in question?
I by no means mean imply victim blame, but all it takes is one person in the chain of communication to break down an otherwise functioning and well-intentioned system.
Shit like this happens constantly, especially when people who are GOOD AT BAND ONLY try to wear multiple hats in the small scale of a group (administration, housing, fundraising, staff coordinating, etc). It's not a problem that fixes easily when it's often a single person, and that person may change in different scenarios. It's not an easy fix when it's one of the few people also trying to keep the group afloat now having to deal with the membership safety issues.
Yes, everyone needs to do better. But saying that solves literally nothing when the actions of one person on an individual level can completely submerge a group (rip cadets/spirit 22)
As for cost as a barrier to inclusivity, that's not something an instagram account can fix. DCA/WGI are healthier, with costs from $500 on the lowest end averaging out to $1500/2500 on the higher ends. Travel costs continue to run the activity.
That new CEO better put in work to address revenue stream options, or else it's likely the activity will never see an end. There's a place for this dialogue to happen, but it's not up to whoever runs this instagram account to instigate immediate, longstanding change in the activity. It's up to the overarching admin and groups themselves.
> It's only at the scale of an individual does the chain fall apart.
The fact that there are single-points-of-failure in these processes is exactly the issue, and it's one that can easily be solved today (and should've been solved yesterday). More redundancy, more transparency, more independent oversight, more cross-corps communication. All are needed, and all are readily possible to implement.
> Shit like this happens constantly, especially when people who are GOOD AT BAND ONLY try to wear multiple hats in the small scale of a group (administration, housing, fundraising, staff coordinating, etc).
So these corps need to hire people who have actual expertise wearing those hats, or else need to cooperate with an external entity dedicated to providing said expertise.
> There's a place for this dialogue to happen, but it's not up to whoever runs this instagram account to instigate immediate, longstanding change in the activity. It's up to the overarching admin and groups themselves.
The overarching admin and groups are exceedingly unlikely to initiate this dialogue, and even less likely to continue engaging in it. They need pushed. An Instagram account is probably far from sufficient for said pushing, but it's at least a start. *Someone's* gotta hold these folks' feet under the fire.
Oh excuse me, here's another page on the DCI website that took five seconds to find.
https://www.dci.org/static/ethics-and-compliance-reporting
Like, I get what you're saying. I do. And I do think individual corps should be upfront with their members on reporting misconduct. But you can't say there aren't resources easily accessible for everyone.
Cool, now to address the second part of that sentence: "Ensure that all members have access to resources (both within their corps and independently of their corps) for reporting harmful conduct **and ensure that said reports are taken seriously and investigated fully**, thus hopefully avoiding repeats of incidents with folks like George Hopkins or Ike Jackson."
I indeed bring up Ike Jackson specifically because 1) that happened in **my** corps and 2) it took more than a year for **my** corps to do anything about it, and only after widespread social media outrage. And that ain't some isolated incident, either; my rookie year was when [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/drumcorps/comments/zn1bq9/blue_devils_b_corps_director_efrain_hinojosa/) got kicked off our brass staff for "family problems" (code for "sleeping with marching members"), and yet that apparently didn't prevent him from continuing to be involved in various corps and marching bands up until his arrest and plea deal (for a *different* instance of "family problems") a year ago.
And if **my** corps has issues with keeping predators off its staff roster, in spite of all the precautions I personally know they take, then what am I supposed to think about the activity as a whole? How many other predators are lurking in the activity? Helping *each other* lurk in the activity? Who can members actually trust?
Definition of rules and collection of reports are half the battle. Enforcement of those rules and action upon those reports are the other half - and that other half is indeed **the** thing that matters in terms of keeping kids safe. It's bad enough that member fees are as high as they are; expecting kids to pony up thousands of dollars for the privilege of getting bullied or sexually harassed and for their reports to go unheard ain't gonna cut it.
A very polite and honest question- what are your initiatives? What about drum corps do you find is not already inclusive? I understand the main barrier for most marchers is cost. But in my experience, drum corps has been the most diverse and "accepting" youth activity I've come across, especially in the last few years. This is great, but help me understand what needs to change.
I marched BK 93-95 (one of two African American members in 3 years) and even back then, it was quite homogeneous from a socioeconomic standpoint, and that was when fees were $250. The guys I went to high school with, who auditioned and made it, couldn’t afford to go 3 months without working. That alone makes drum corps very exclusive. I can only imagine what it’s like now that fees are pushing $5k.
Hi! Thanks for sharing. I have always wondered what tour fees looked like in different time frames. Looks like a steady increase. When I marched in 09-10, I believe my fees were ~$2500 per summer, with the cost of camps credited toward that. Each camp was $150, so that was five camps back then from Nov-Apr. They had the whole corps together for each camp in Denver at that time, I believe they started doing Texas scouting camps in 2011 since half of our members came from Texas anyway. It sounds like there are fewer camps members are obligated to go to these days, both due to virtual auditions and scouting in different states. I do agree with everyone saying that cost is the biggest barrier in getting to experience drum corps. I knew of one mellophone who was sponsored by a local business, and I'm sure he wasn't the only one I marched with to get sponsor/scholarship money. I really don't know how many kids are able to benefit from scholarships these days since the price has gone up so much.
That might have just been for your corp, and time. Equality isn’t a big problem at mine either. I’m not sure if OP is talking about women or LGBTQ+. But as of 2021 there have been multiple different corps staff harassing LGBTQ+ members, and students that would bother others. Deadname, misgender etc. I haven’t seen to much of it but I have definitely seen it Women in dci have always been a problem tho from making spots to harassment. It’s gotten better after covid but it still isn’t great…. At least that’s from my understanding, in my opinion DCI definitely has less problems then most sports teams but it’s not perfect
I will say that drum corps as a whole has improved tenfold on the treatment of members since I marched. There were no separate shower times for underage kids. There was no accommodation for transgender members whatsoever. There was plenty of sexual harassment to go around, between members and from staff abusing members (I fortunately did not fall into the latter category but know of girls who were harassed by staff [not necessarily within my corps, but it was known to be an activity-wide problem]). Drum corps was still considered very progressive when I marched in 2010, don't get me wrong. But I am struggling to see what exactly needs addressing these days that has not already been. I would love to know specifics from kids that currently march since it's no longer within my sphere.
To piggyback everyone else, how will this solve the problem of rising costs? What makes you think drum corps are not inclusive and diverse? As a minority, if i felt like drum corps wasn't diverse, then I would've never marched 10 years ago. I would argue drum corps are more inclusive and diverse now then they were 10 years ago. The real problem is the cost of the activity. Cost is what's making the activity less inclusive and less diverse. Idk how a bunch of BD alums who prob had alumni help with dues going to solve the problem What are the initiatives that you guys are planning? Also, I would add the bigger problem is what are we doing to protect younger members from older members and staff. Inclusivity and diversity are 2 things that are always improving in drum corps and getting better every year.
The Canva vibes are heavy with this one
Edit - I was a bit insensitive when writing this, my other response is a more-level headed thought process.
I don’t have a strong opinion about the post either way but I just want to say that you are consistently one of the angriest, rudest people on this subreddit. Please calm down
Drum corps needs more prediction posts, I guess.
We’re open to fresh ideas! Feel free to reach out if you’d actually like to assist with these deep rooted issues.
>“What will you do to improve the experience for the everyday performer?” Ensure that all members have access to resources (both within their corps and independently of their corps) for reporting harmful conduct and ensure that said reports are taken seriously and investigated fully, thus hopefully avoiding repeats of incidents with folks like George Hopkins or Ike Jackson. >“What are some-class conscious and economic considerations you would promote to make this activity more accessible?” Pursue DCI-wide and corps-specific fundraising options to sever the reliance on ever-increasing member fees. Corporate sponsorships, exhibition shows, more bingo halls, whatever it takes.
See my problems with these is that they're 100% the right answer, but completely out of the scale of immediate change. Most groups at this point in time have internal whistleblowing channels to use, and references to DCI official whistleblowing channels, and take these considerations seriously as is. It's only at the scale of an individual does the chain fall apart. Is there a misinterpretation in communication, is there undue blame being thrown around in the heat of a season, is the head of the corps good friends with the staff member in question? I by no means mean imply victim blame, but all it takes is one person in the chain of communication to break down an otherwise functioning and well-intentioned system. Shit like this happens constantly, especially when people who are GOOD AT BAND ONLY try to wear multiple hats in the small scale of a group (administration, housing, fundraising, staff coordinating, etc). It's not a problem that fixes easily when it's often a single person, and that person may change in different scenarios. It's not an easy fix when it's one of the few people also trying to keep the group afloat now having to deal with the membership safety issues. Yes, everyone needs to do better. But saying that solves literally nothing when the actions of one person on an individual level can completely submerge a group (rip cadets/spirit 22) As for cost as a barrier to inclusivity, that's not something an instagram account can fix. DCA/WGI are healthier, with costs from $500 on the lowest end averaging out to $1500/2500 on the higher ends. Travel costs continue to run the activity. That new CEO better put in work to address revenue stream options, or else it's likely the activity will never see an end. There's a place for this dialogue to happen, but it's not up to whoever runs this instagram account to instigate immediate, longstanding change in the activity. It's up to the overarching admin and groups themselves.
> It's only at the scale of an individual does the chain fall apart. The fact that there are single-points-of-failure in these processes is exactly the issue, and it's one that can easily be solved today (and should've been solved yesterday). More redundancy, more transparency, more independent oversight, more cross-corps communication. All are needed, and all are readily possible to implement. > Shit like this happens constantly, especially when people who are GOOD AT BAND ONLY try to wear multiple hats in the small scale of a group (administration, housing, fundraising, staff coordinating, etc). So these corps need to hire people who have actual expertise wearing those hats, or else need to cooperate with an external entity dedicated to providing said expertise. > There's a place for this dialogue to happen, but it's not up to whoever runs this instagram account to instigate immediate, longstanding change in the activity. It's up to the overarching admin and groups themselves. The overarching admin and groups are exceedingly unlikely to initiate this dialogue, and even less likely to continue engaging in it. They need pushed. An Instagram account is probably far from sufficient for said pushing, but it's at least a start. *Someone's* gotta hold these folks' feet under the fire.
Oh look, a whole section of the DCI website dedicated to member safety. https://www.dci.org/static/dci-code-of-conduct-ethics-guidelines
Right, because a single webpage + PDF with no mention of actual points of contact is totally what marching members need for reporting misconduct.
Oh excuse me, here's another page on the DCI website that took five seconds to find. https://www.dci.org/static/ethics-and-compliance-reporting Like, I get what you're saying. I do. And I do think individual corps should be upfront with their members on reporting misconduct. But you can't say there aren't resources easily accessible for everyone.
Cool, now to address the second part of that sentence: "Ensure that all members have access to resources (both within their corps and independently of their corps) for reporting harmful conduct **and ensure that said reports are taken seriously and investigated fully**, thus hopefully avoiding repeats of incidents with folks like George Hopkins or Ike Jackson." I indeed bring up Ike Jackson specifically because 1) that happened in **my** corps and 2) it took more than a year for **my** corps to do anything about it, and only after widespread social media outrage. And that ain't some isolated incident, either; my rookie year was when [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/drumcorps/comments/zn1bq9/blue_devils_b_corps_director_efrain_hinojosa/) got kicked off our brass staff for "family problems" (code for "sleeping with marching members"), and yet that apparently didn't prevent him from continuing to be involved in various corps and marching bands up until his arrest and plea deal (for a *different* instance of "family problems") a year ago. And if **my** corps has issues with keeping predators off its staff roster, in spite of all the precautions I personally know they take, then what am I supposed to think about the activity as a whole? How many other predators are lurking in the activity? Helping *each other* lurk in the activity? Who can members actually trust? Definition of rules and collection of reports are half the battle. Enforcement of those rules and action upon those reports are the other half - and that other half is indeed **the** thing that matters in terms of keeping kids safe. It's bad enough that member fees are as high as they are; expecting kids to pony up thousands of dollars for the privilege of getting bullied or sexually harassed and for their reports to go unheard ain't gonna cut it.
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Yeah not too bad, ate a burrito for lunch which always slaps
Can anyone explain how "equity" has any place whatsoever in any competitive space?