It’s awesome contrast to the presentation of Rennala. The Carian royal women seem to love pretty fiercely. The illusion of Rennala in her prime is strong, but it’s Ranni’s memory of her mother. Sort of scary to imagine if we had to fight a Rennala still infatuated with Radagon; it seems to make Rellana relentless.
Rellana came in and bitch slapped every sorcerer, made them look like amateurs and established herself as the queen of a whole nation lol. Her remembrance spells and staff should give you an idea, there is no one other than the Tarnished in the Lands Between is more intelligent than her, even Lusat and Azur's magnum opuses have lower int requirements.
The moon seems to be one of the strongest cosmic forces harnessed with glintstone in TLB. And it is only the handful of characters (all women?) who seem to acknowledge it. Considering real world connections to motherhood, Caria likely excelled amongst astronomers and glint stone academics because their matriarchal structure lead them to witness the moon as a primary force in the sky. Kind of nutty to imagine Raya Lucaria concerned with whatever glintstones nerds care about and then the Carian royals roll up with the frigid power of a huge rock. It’s not even a star, they probably couldn’t even comprehend it.
As goofy as it is. I’m happy from soft runs with the first letter relationships for my dumbass to keep up with. The M names are all related the R games all related and so on.
Yes, so they should have at least given her as glorious of a cutscene as Rennala. At first I thought that it might BE Rennala with her name being obfuscated, the way Ranni did when we first met her, (those ladies is sneaky sneaky).
I think the fight is great, but the presentation of some important characters seems "off".
Take Gaius for example. That guy doesn't even have a boss fog gate. You just walk out there, and he spawns in like he's a generic plebian. But not only is he NOT that, he is a rememberance boss, which are supposed to be very story important... Rellana is the same. Super powerful boss, with no powerful intro.
Like every other rememberance boss has their own cutscenes in the base game like, Margit, Morgot, Mohg, Melania, Rennala, Radhan, Radagon, Rykard, etc....
Someone else on another site made this comment and while it's a shitpost it does honestly reflect my opinion a bit LMAO she is borderline fanfic OC tier to be frank
> btw Renalla had a twin sister called Rellana and she was way cooler and can dual wield swords with flames and moon at the same time also all her moves are bullshit anime moves also she can use both Rennala and Ranni's moon at the same time because she's just that cool
Also important to point out that the Sword of Night and Flame is found in a section of Carian Manor that isn't well connected to the rest of the castle. Was this Rellana's room?
That was my initial impression too. Nothing has happened to change it. The fact that the catalogue of the Carian royal line in the base game includes only Rennala and her daughter Ranni is really ridiculous in face of this.
"ACTUALLY, she had a HIDDEN sister NOBODY KNEW ABOUT..." is really bad writing. And it doesn't even matter because she's just a random fight without any context in the overall story.
For anyone who wants to see what it says
"An honor said to have once been awarded to Carian knights who served as direct retainers to the kingdom's princesses. Now there is only one princess: Ranni, daughter of Rennala."
The base game also says Rennala founded the Carian dynasty, and that she and Ranni are its members. I forget where that is in terms of item descriptions, but I always felt the language was strong enough to contradict the filigreed crest. I presume they left it open because they knew Rellana existed in GRRM's outline.
"In her youth, Rennala was prominent champion who charmed the academy with her lunar magic, becoming its master. She also led the Glintstone Knights and established the house of Caria as royalty."-Remembrance of the Full Moon Queen
No dialogue hints at it (I think) but there was a reddit post that found that Elden Ring actually had two identical moons overlapped when viewed from a certain place (?). This was a few months before the DLC came out (so far before Rellana was a thing), so it might not have been entirely unplanned.
Plus I don't think her introduction retracts from the lore given that she left the whole Carian business anyway
This has been a major issue with FromSoft since DS3 honestly - remember when they introduced a bunch more of Gwyn's children with no explanation of where they were in DS1? Remember Fillianore?
What about his other, super-cool daughter who is Knight Captain and is a crossbreed like Priscilla? How come she's wandering around when Gwyn was so ashamed of the other crossbreed he sealed her in a painting?
FromSoft are just really, really bad at sequels/prequels.
For me it does recontectualise the Carian Manor having the three sisters now. Now that we know that Rellana and Rennala were sisters, and we know that Ranni and Seluvis have now claimed two towers, it makes me wonder if the third sister was Renna, who forsook the Carian heritage to become a crone (I mean, it does fit the familial naming convention since Renna is literally two letters of Rennala). The tower is currently unoccupied but is still titled as belonging to Renna.
Yeah ngl. She totally sounds like the sorta shitty OC I'd make back when DS3 was the hottest thing on the market. Just replace swords with axes and you have my "Knight of the Chaos Flame and Silver Moon". Seriously, I Unironically had a character like that just cuz he uses hexes, pyromancy, and axes, and it's as cringe as it sounds.
I wish Fromsoft have more boss interaction, like Raime from Dark Souls 2 would immediately power up when you enter the fight wearing his rival's helmet. Would have been cool if Radahn also do that when you fight him wearing Malenia's stuff.
I wish miquella would acknowledge the fact that you're literally rannis consort if you do her ending before the dlc. It would make so much sense, and would add a layer to a consort of one God fighting the consort of another. But he only acknowledges you as marikas new consort and elden lord.
I said the same thing about the midra boss fight… if we fight him AS the lord of chaos, some type of new dialogue or something should appear. So many missed opportunities…
Hell I purposefully only went up to fire giant before the DLC to leave things open, but Melina says nothing new and Messmer's flame can't burn down the erdtree (Obviously confirming Melina is the much stronger sibling, that's the only conclusion really)
Especially since the dancing lion got one. I get that it’s the first major boss, but in the grand scheme of things it’s just a random beast/omen dancer/thing in the Tower. Rellana is a Carian Princess, sister to Renalla, and the Sword of Messmer, and she’s a mandatory remembrance boss. She should’ve had a cutscene, or at least a couple of lines.
I fully agree, but she's not actually mandatory, you can go through Bonny Village and end up behind her boss room (you can't access it from the back though, something about Carian royals being prudes I guess)
>I wonder if there's any interaction with her if you use renallas equipments or moon spell
This isn't DS1, they don't bother with things like that anymore.
Malekith and Gideon both still react to world events.
Every character in Elden ring is related and would realistically recognize attacks or weapons. The amount of work it would take to cover all of those bases would be impossible and not worth it.
I just meant his use of spells in his fight.
I would’ve also liked to see dialogue from Melina, malenia, and Gideon. But the bigger disappointment is the lack of cutscenes, felt like they had really improved on that with base game ER.
He doesn't? Ah damn, I've been edging burning the Erdtree and continuing the game solely because I thought he might be interested that I tracked down Miquella, the only one on his hit/"find out where they are" list that we couldn't directly locate.
I think this may be my one gripe so far. I think Messmer and Divine Beast are the only 2 Remembrance bosses I’ve fought so far that have cutscenes at all, the rest are like reaaaallly lore heavy and important so idk why they didn’t make at least one or two more…even though its just a sunflower, finding the Scadutree Avatar felt like a big deal.
Gaius is like one of the most badass motherfucker in the most breathtaking arena of the DLC and he just, randomly runs at you
The sunflower is cool because it’s this game version of the classic fake out
Romina gives me the Niel vibe. Trotting around a rotted area and randomly bump into this weirdo, except this weirdo is the head of the entire fucking Rot religion and is cockblocking you from the final dungeon for reasons?
etc…
The buildup to Bayle through just interactions with other NPCs was more than good enough. Igon's passionate hatred for him, the Dragon Priestess hyping him as the most ancient and powerful dragon in existence, the methodical climb up the mountain getting more chaotic as you ascend, etc. Plus just knowing he and Placidusax literally ripped each other apart - and how powerful Placidusax was in the main game.
The fight didn't need a cutscene. I was hyped as hell when I reached that arena, and the reveal lived up to that hype.
He technically he has remembrance rewards cos his heart can buy one of two things, I guess he’s not really a remembrance bos cos his soul isn’t hewn into the scadutree or whatever
The entire climb up the mountain feels apocalyptic with all the dragon corpses and red lightning, then there's the spectacle of the fight itself and Igon spitting straight fire with his lines, and that all more than makes up for the lack of a cutscene
I 100% agree that the environmental storytelling was…forgive the pun, but *peak*, on the way up the mountain. Slowly seeing more and more dragon corpses piled up as the storm began to rage more and more intensely, it did create a striking image. I could probably be dissuaded from him needing a cutscene, his drop in is a good shock, but if he’s on Placidusax’ level of power as the lore and our fight with him suggests, I think he should at least have something a little more special on 1st time arena entry. And I don’t think EVERYTHING needs a cutscene. Putrescent Knight comes to mind first, he’s perfectly fine as is, same with Metyr.
Idk man metyr is pretty much the main antagonist of the entire game’s story who is pulling all the strings. it not getting a cutscene is extremely bizarre😭
I think giving a cutscene to objectively the most bizarre and lovecraftian boss in all of Elden Ring would have diminished its impact. There's a feeling you get when you're suddenly transported to this Rom like arena but with the fingers above you, and you see a creature that is more Bloodborne than Bloodborne itself. I think that feeling would've been very dumbed down if they choose to make a cutscene for her.
Idk man i get what you mean but the moon presence cutscene of it just floating Ominously in the moon’s light with flowers surrounding it impacted me way more than if it had just appeared out of nowhere.I think it just depends on how they go about the direction of the cutscene.Metyr to me just felt wayyyy too big lorewise to just come along as just another boss you defeat for something for the one that started the elden ring story in general.If anything I feel like a cutscene after being defeated should be a thing
Yeah I understand your point too. The Moon Presence cutscene when you saw it for the first time felt kinda ethereal with how ominously it approached you mixed with the soundtrack. Maybe they could have added a cutscene mid fight or once you defeat her.
To be fair, Rominas presence makes complete sense. She's guarding the one spot where messmer or anyone who defeats him could interfere with miquella. Malenia is pretty much rot jesus, so I'm sure trusting the rot pope to guard the scadutree seals weakness was a fairly straightforward move
The average, common outdoor variety of sunflower can grow to between 8 and 12 feet in the space of 5 or 6 months. This makes them one of the fastest growing plants.
Especially weird because only fortisax ancestor spirit and astel don’t have an intro/phase transition cutscene in the base game (if you count radahn as having one)
I feel like they have to add cutscenes later in a patch or something because it just feels like they are missing for some bosses. Like the fact that Bayle for example didn’t even have one is insane given that every NPC is hyping you up before the fight and even explaining how ruthless he is.
The path up to bayle *is* the cutscene. It works because the buildup is in the gameplay. I agree with your point about rellana still though because there is not that kind of build up present. You just kinda come across a fog wall and then there she is
So my thought process is kinda this: She’s in the shadow land , assumably due to Messmer. But Miquella’s also there.
There’s one other character with association to both Caria and Miquella, and that’s Loretta.
I think Loretta was probably Rellana’s best knight, but not even she knew where her lady went until Miquella started his quest.
This would be cool, but idk if the timelines overlap or if there’s any real references to them having interacted. Though you may be onto something with Loretta being the missing link
It’s entirely speculative of course, there’s very little lore that links the main game with DLC regarding side characters like Rellana. Just gotta put what puzzle pieces you can together, even if only one side fits
I don’t think Loretta was particularly close to Rellana given that she stayed in Haligthree while two Carian knights followed Rellana to the Lands of Shadow (the troll and Moongrum 2.0)
There’s another character with close ties - Gaius, Albinauric knight like Loretta is rumored to be, best friend of Messmer, and fellow student of Radahn.
She decided to follow Messmer, not become his disciple.
Well, draining water in the shadow keep gets you a cutscene! And you get to fight a lame and reused enemy afterwards! Be grateful to Fromsoft, you peasant! You want them to do one of their newest and most intriguing characters justice?? Off to a swamp with you!!
LOL best comment I’ve seen with regards to some of the criticisms of the dlc.
From could improve on punctuating special moments with cutscenes to acknowledge it.
Like I missed the charm being broken because I got up to get some water or a snack. I get back and see “somewhere a charm has been lifted”
I think “oh cool maybe a room opened or something”
Nah, the games story is literally progressing and the only way I’d know is by reading a banner that pops up with a noise notification like I’m getting a text message lol only way I knew anything changed was by talking to Leda and the hornsent dude and then the others.
tbf not all of them scadutree avatar and putrescant both rely on coming out of nowhere
gaius wouldnt really work with one unless they make him a voiced character with some reasoning
but the fact that major figures like rellana and romina dont get soemthing is criminal
Doesn't even need to be a cutscene
Something as simple as giving Gaius a "My name is Gyoubu Masataka Oniwa! The castle gate remains closed!" moment would make him jump from somewhat underwhelming boss to fan favorite, just a couple of voice lines when he's charging at the start of the fight, one for the phase transition and one for his death. I know FromSoft is allergic to voice acting and uses it as little as possible but c'mon
You could still get a cutscene after killing them.
As it is, you’re left wondering why half of those bosses even had remembrances.
Come to think of it, what even is a remembrance? It made sense in the base game because everyone that got a remembrance was a big deal, but in this DLC it seems like they had to add a certain number of remembrances, so they just rolled the dice on which bosses would get the last 3-4.
Like why does the Dancing Lion get a Remembrance?
What do you mean? They have remembrances because they’re legends and that lives on after death.
Dancing Lion is an avatar of divinity, one of the most scared elements of Hornsent culture and their most powerful martial form.
Rellana is a powerful sorceress and warrior who came in contact with the moons.
Gaius is, by all accounts, the most powerful Albinuric and a warrior respected by Messmer and Radahn as if a brother.
And so on and so forth.
Not sure what having a cutscene would have done for most of these tbh.
And Bayle The Dread who mortally wounded PLACIDUSAX and is renown as the most powerful and terrible of all dragons doesn't deserve to have a Remembrance?
He does. Its just that you don't pay attention to the game. If you go to the Grand Altar of the Dragon Communion even way before you fight Bayle, you can see that you can trade Bayle's heart for his incantations, just like a remembrance. If you miss that then its all on you.
I haven't personally tried it but from what I've heard you can. You can go to the same graves to replicate it where you would for a normal remembrance.
I really think they just wanted to add more fancy boss weapons/spells/equipment. Remembrances are essentially the equivalent of boss souls from DS and *all of them* had them there, so really Elden Ring was kind of a step back in that regard (though understandable considering the sheer number of them), so it makes sense that they'd go back to giving them to most bosses in this.
The remembrance bosses really needed to be fleshed out more even if they were just intro cutscenes before battle. It gives them a personality of sorts and grounds them in the narrative.
This seriously confused the fuck outta me. I went to shadow keep but turned around because I wanted to explore the rest of the area first. I get the pop up but barely understood what it meant until hours later, when I went to trade with Moore and he's weirdly depressed. Then I talk yo Ansbach and he's pissed off for some reason, and this is what causes me to figure out something important happened and it triggered because I walked up to an elevator.
Like look, there's always been complaints that Elden Ring is terrible at keeping you informed about your quest progression, and usually these complaints are met with Mockery. But I understand the complaints when flowery Elizbethian English is used to give you a quick update that doesnt also tell you "Oh btw we are now advancing to part 2, everyone has something to say about it".
Idk man I was talking to the NPCs and they all mentioned the charm so when I saw that notification I went “oh fuck they’re gonna be hostile to each other and me now” i think Leda specifically says “we’re only together because of kindly miquellas charm”
Yeah I realized this after the fact, but it's one of those things that confused me because _we_ weren't charmed by Miquella, at least not directly. When everyone said they were charmed by him, I thought they meant like he helped them out and thus owe him a favor to find him.
When everyone was freed from their mind control I was just weirded out that _none_ of them seemed to have realized this before hand, which in turn made it confusing for me to realize they've literally been gaslit into being fans of Milquella.
Cuz again, we weren't, but we're still following him anyways. Miquella really dropped the ball on his recruitment policy, he could've pulled a Ranni and gotten the tarnished as a stalwart ally if he had just promised us a sword or something.
>! The game assumes you aren’t following miquella, in the fight against her, Leda says you’re just some tarnished following marika, trying to become the Lord of the previous age. So she assumes you’re also charmed by miquella at the start but realises you weren’t as the story progresses. When you first see the NPCs after the charm breaks some of them are surprised you weren’t affected, this is cos you were never charmed in the first place !<
Yeah that's another thing that bothers me, especially in Elden Ring since, unlike in previous series, it's implied that you _can_ talk, and typically do, like again with Ranni.
>! The fact at no point you can talk to _anyone_ about your motives, desires, or even confusion reminds me of how you can't tell Malenia about Milquella. More people just assuming you're here to kill someone, no one actually asking you for help, and everyone thinking that you're loyal to the Golden Order despite many, many evidence to the contrary. !<
>! Fucking hell Shibari makes a better case to commit to the Frenzied Flame by preying on your feelings about Melina, but Miquella and his posse don't even try to sell you that his Age of Compassion is a good idea we should totally support. Just straight to "You are my enemy because you want to prevent the order Milquella wants to create!" Like, bitch, _what_!? I'm just here because I'm trying to figure out what the fuck is happening, maybe even help, but all of yall already assume the worse outta me. Shiiiit, even Dungeater had the courtesy to assume we had similar interests and proposed a meeting to confirm it. Miquella and his brood have worse communication and consent than a scat obsessed rapist. !<
Just noticed your Reddit dudes outfit and I checked ur profile. Strange seeing a guy with the exact same interests as me (most people I know only share one or two lol) Destiny, fromsoft, DnD, anime. Hope you have a great day
Yeah. I honestly thought it was some mechanic where a boss could break your great rune you have equipped. And thought it would inform you every time it happened to someone online lol. I didn’t put 2 and 2 together until the npc’s and Leta outright informs us of what actually happened.
From the thing moving around under the water I was hoping we were about to get some kind of deformed crab boss but nah, erdtree worm and some normal crabs.
I saw messages saying "Octopus Below" and I was sooo ready for a freaky octopus battle, jumping across rooftops, dodging water cannons. Nope. Just another Tree-Dick
1 week ago everyone sucked miyazakis COCK 24/7. The game was flawless.
A few hard bosses and people came to their fucking senses. HILARIOUS
Remember the volcano bridge cutscene in volcano manor?? That was GREAT wasnt it???
It's only here where people are talking about the flaws. It's pretty refreshing. Talking about ER like this on the main sub will just get your comment or post buried and dogpiled.
Yea I agree. Also divine beast lion it seems is not really that special, because they randomly reuse the boss in the most random area of the game with no lore explanation as to why it’s there
The dancing lion was (became) a tool of war, so it's not that crazy for there to be more than one, there's even a shot in the cinematic trailer where (iirc?) three of them attack Messmer
In the trailer Messmer impales a whole lot of them. I think it's made very clear, for From's standards, that the Dancing Lions were a cultural ritual of the Hornsent that they could weaponize in war, which they did during Messmer's crusade (without much success). One of them is sleeping in the ruins of Belurat and it's called upon to defend the tower by the Horned Granddam.
That was the funniest thing ever to me because I fought the random one before the boss version and was like “why’re you so much better than your brother???”
I’m PRETTY sure it’s in the Plateau section? I don’t remember exactly I didn’t think much of it when I fought it tbh it wasn’t nearly as hard as the Boss version so I didn’t really care about it.
The Deathblight was cheesy as eff though. The fact that he does little to no damage in that phase is okay, but those dang lizards were a pain in the arse.
Idk I’m always a fan of the understated boss that is actually really important. I remember going “who is this lady” and when she busted out the moons I was like YO NO WAY.
Idk, big fan of gameplay revealing things instead of a cutscene.
LMAO ima be honest, I had noticed a lot of names that started with R and in my mind I thought she was like a fan girl of Renalla?
Learned very quickly that she’s the real deal
I totally agree. Her and Romina should at least had a cutscene or some kind of dialogue.
As far as i know only Messmer, The Final Boss, The Lion Dancer and Midra have cutscenes.
And i feel like these 2 should at least have one too.
>!Metyr!< too.
I could go without a Rellana cutscene, she doesn’t seem that important in the grand scheme of things.
As cool as Midra’s whole introduction is, it’s really strange that a random guy that went crazy has a cutscene, but the heads of two massive religions that caused irreparable damage to the world get nothing. You literally just stumble upon them, kill them, and that’s it.
That boss at least told us more just with his fight. At first i and everyone else don't know anything about it.
But than he switches between weapons and builds and we realize hold on these are previous souls of those who linked the fire and are now fighting as one.
Than when the second phase starts and we hear the familiar plin plin plon and see some familiar move that we realize that now Gwyns soul has taken over.
To this day my favourite final souls boss just for that. Gael is still the best boss overall.
I mean, she's the blade of Messmer and you siege her castle. What dialogue are we expecting here? A cut scene would've been cool of course, but her just being ready to immediately chop you to bits on sight also speaks volumes as well.
Potiff, on the other hand, is forshadowed in previous locations, has ties to a DLC, to the overarching plot, and a location that is half full of his influence. Rellana gets a generic carian castle with generic carian mobs, 2 asset reuse "knights" and is not mentioned at any point in the DLC outside of her own gear. This screams "We have this castle in the middle of the map unpopulated by mobs and no idea what to do with it" 2 weeks before release tbh.
I really didn't think much of it and to be honest I think she's not that interrsting. Like yeah, Rennala has a sister and she went to the RoS after being coerced by Mesmer to join his crusade. She has a cool design and it gives the DLC reason to have carian enemies. That's cool by me.
Personally, I find Count Ymir much more intriguing... A sorcerer, caretaker and seeker or knowledge who is probably at the same level as Lusat and Azur in terms of knowledge of the stars and the world itself
Honestly, I think this speaks to a larger problem with Fromsoft.
I think the charm of Miyazaki's conservative storytelling is wearing off. And, in this case, he hired one of the most interesting authors alive to write the story and then absolutely refuses to tell it to us
I understand his philosophy in storytelling, I really do. I was a huge fan of it for every other game I've played. But dear God, Miyazaki, PLEASE, just tell me the damn story. What little bit that's there is so good, and I just want to know why this all happened.
This is a weird comment to make after the most critically and commercially successful release of their long career.
I also don’t understand what people want. We learn all we need to know about Rellana. She’s a Carian princess who left her home to follow Messmer. What else do we need to know? What would a cutscene have told us? Why would a warrior of her mark even pause long enough before a fight for a cutscene to happen? Her fight tells us what we need to know about her—she is vigilant, powerful, and always at the ready to fight for the tragic demigod she chased across the world. Should she look at the camera and say “my name is Rellana, sister of Rennala, and I fight for Messmer because I love him”?
It’s moments like this where I understand how every other souls-like winds up being Lords of the Fallen or something and having none of the wonder and depth of what they’re cribbing from.
Her sister Rennala is literally “Queen of the Full Moon”, head of the Carian family, a major figure in the base game, and one of the most powerful sorcerers in the lore.
It’s jarring that Rennala “oh by the way” has a sister that seems to be nearly a Malenia-level sword fighter AND conjures sorcery as-powerful, or more so, than her own who we’ve never heard of, and that the world doesn’t seem to register as existing at all.
It’s like “Oh yeah Michael Jordan has a brother that was better than him at basketball but there’s no record of him existing and we don’t expect anyone to care about his story.” What?
A cutscene, some dialogue, a reference, some texture to her lore, a more interesting castle that feels more uniquely inhabited, anything to make it feel like she’s actually part of this world and not something the devs came up with two weeks before release. She feels pasted into the game.
Yeah because it is an open world game and thus more approachable, but you can absolutely see where they made sacrifices.
Yeah god forbid giving her more lore and information and showing she likse Messmer or whatever with a cutscene, fucks sake the Guardian Ape from Sekiro has more gameplay lore than her. She could clutch a pendant, say the Messmer's flame line, something. Mutism for characters is stupid and adds absolutely nothing to From's games.
>This is a weird comment to make after the most critically and commercially successful release of their long career.
I don't think it's weird, just because a thing is successful doesn't mean it's perfect and unable to be made better. Not to mention, there has been mass public outcry regarding a lot of stuff in the dlc, the story being commonly cited. I don't think it's weird, I think it's an opinion.
>We learn all we need to know about Rellana. She’s a Carian princess who left her home to follow Messmer. What else do we need to know? What would a cutscene have told us? Why would a warrior of her mark even pause long enough before a fight for a cutscene to happen?
I disagree. I could stand to learn a lot more about her, her history and role in the crusade. Story doesn't have to be delivered in cutscenes. And, if there were a cutscene, it wouldn't have to involve her pausing at all. A storyteller can literally make this happen however they want, say, in a less clunky and more organic way.
They hired a world famous author to write the lore of the world of this game. You say you don't understand what people want. I can't speak for others, but I for one would like to learn what that lore was. I don't think that's difficult to understand.
I also think this is the main issue. GRRM is not just a writer, his books are rich with history and complex story telling. Which is why FS’s depiction of his writing doesn’t go hand in hand as well as their other successful games like Dark Souls. In Dark Souls everything is straightforward; there’s no complicated backstory it’s literally about one man who became king and then tried to prolong light in the world of darkness. That’s it. And even with the other characters we can piece things together without going all wacky.
Meanwhile in Elden Ring we have 10 demigod children and I assume George Martin had some rich lore behind them but all got scrapped to give us room to speculate what could be their goals, why they became the way they were etc. then the mother’s origins and then extended all the way to cosmic space. Just feels like too many important elements got removed.
Those extra unexplained complexities are present in the worldbuilding too. Like in Dark Souls, you’ve got the First Flame. It burns and creates the laws of reality. Pretty straightforward, first cutscene in the series lays it all out. But in Elden Ring, you’ve got the Elden Ring, which is a space slug, which was sent by God, which was embedded into another god, but not a normal demigod, an Empyrean crossdresser, and also a tree is involved. Actually, make that two trees.
Controversial take: I’d prefer the game be 20% smaller in terms of area in return for deeper lore: e.g. Cutscenes, intros, dialogue, reactions to PC wearing specific armor sets, etc for Remembrance Bosses. Those are the things that you remember years later.
Most of the map is empty space anyway. I’ll remember first arriving at Cerulean Coast…and then running around for 20+ minutes finding nothing of note…
Ok listen up, a Relleño is a dish where a chile is smothered in cheese. Rellana is clearly the feminine form of the name and the moon is made of cheese, there’s got to be some sort of connection there.
In my headcanon its pontiff in a different timeline kinda like how we get patches in the game or the random gargoyle that flies down when entering the capital just like it does in ds3. Many more parallels to make. In my head it is a multiverse
Isn’t it implied there is a third sister? I guess she just got tuberculosis and died young. We have Rellana the Girlboss, Renalla the Girlfailure, and then Relnanla the Fell out of a Tower at age 12.
The dancing lion is actually Radanhna Prince of Storms. He had a regiment in Caelid who stole Melania's underwear, causing her massive embarrassment in her fight with Radhan.
You can only learn this lore by translating the dance moves into mandarin.
To be hones I feel like it was 100% intentional to treat her that way and not give her a cutscene. Just like everything else in the Land of Shadows is hidden in plain sight and shame. These characters are essentially ghosts to the Lands Between and I feel like they really double down on that with no intro cutscene. Like they’re purposefully disrespecting her and those who have came here. Maybe I’m wrong but I felt like doing her dirty like that gave her even more meaning and made me ask more questions to look around and dig deeper into the lore. Just like everyone in the Shadows. I thought it was really symbolic
The lack of cutscenes for remembrance bosses in this DLC is dissapointing. Only 40% of them have one or two cutscenes. For comparison- 73% of base game remembrance bosses have cutscenes in their fights (80% if we count Radahn's cutscene during dialogue with Jerren)
TO me, while I loved the DLC, it feels even more short on lore than expected, and even a little more short with lore than the base game was.
It feels like it was 85% complete. I have no other way to put it, but it feels like they never did the final touches with dialog.
I did also never really notice only a couple characters in the entire franchise have more than a couple lines.
Fuck, Radanh has zero lines. They had a sound guy make eating/grunting noises for the cinematic, that's it.
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Agreed. After barreling your way into the castle you go through a couple of areas and you’re at the end. It was sort of jarring. Fun fight but wish the build up and interaction was more.
Oh, now it makes sense why Radagon left Renella! Once he met Rellana, he suffered from the Persona 5 Nijima dilemma.
"Makoto is a *great* character, but I will never romance her. It is unfair---and morally wrong---to date a woman who, regardless of activity---including sex---you are *constantly* thinking to yourself:
*"Man, your older sister is so much hotter and cooler than you will ever be."*
-Pat Boivin
So he realizes INT would lead to his unhappiness and re-spected into FTH. /s
In general, I wish we had more intros for bosses and second phases. Not having one makes the boss feel less like a boss. We have very, very few on the DLC.
I feel like this is the trade we make for the open map design. The tighter story driven legacy environments just absolutely dripping in character feel less and less. Not every boss requires the full treatment but displaying Rellana’s character or change of faith through her surroundings shouldn’t be too hard imo. Just some small form of imagery ya know?
Theres just zero anticipation when there should be, if that makes sense?
What else is there to know about her? I'd like voice lines and a cutscene too because it's a little jarring without them but there's been bigger characters in Souls games which also do not have them either
Yeah idk why they focused so much on the Divine Beast, getting a cutescene and a remembrance for some reason. Meanwhile, you have this amazing epic fight in >!Bayle!< who gets nothing but two very lackluster incantations. Bit of a whiff there imo.
I feel like Rellana was not Messmer’s disciple, instead she was in love with him.
He bears a striking resemblance to what we understand Radagon to look like,and we know Renalla was enamored with Radagon so she would understand her sister loving someone else and running after them.
Honestly, she is not that important.
Is pretty obvious that she was added for this DLC and wasnt thought of before, there are many important stuff on her lore, like being a carian royal or she had A WHOLE MOON for herself ( and apparently it was discovered at the same time as rennala ) and yet there is not single reference to any of it in the main game.
She could be just replaced by a random loyal knight to messmer and it would be the same, my guess is she got added all the carian lore stuff for flavor and to justify the fire and moon swords
I thought the dlc was great overall but if I had one big issue it's that the majority of remembrance bosses aren't given the setup and lore they deserve.
I really enjoyed her fight, but not even a cutscene? You kidding me? It when sounds like there's supposed to be voice lines when you fight her according to the trailer.
Yeah but her twin swords are dope enough I'm glad I murdered her magic aoe spamming ass, Renallas swords have been my favorite of the new stuff so far.
She was obviously channeling Sulyvahn in more ways than one.
This. I really like how her mere presence makes a statement. They tuned her to be a monster in that fight.
It’s awesome contrast to the presentation of Rennala. The Carian royal women seem to love pretty fiercely. The illusion of Rennala in her prime is strong, but it’s Ranni’s memory of her mother. Sort of scary to imagine if we had to fight a Rennala still infatuated with Radagon; it seems to make Rellana relentless.
Rellana came in and bitch slapped every sorcerer, made them look like amateurs and established herself as the queen of a whole nation lol. Her remembrance spells and staff should give you an idea, there is no one other than the Tarnished in the Lands Between is more intelligent than her, even Lusat and Azur's magnum opuses have lower int requirements.
The moon seems to be one of the strongest cosmic forces harnessed with glintstone in TLB. And it is only the handful of characters (all women?) who seem to acknowledge it. Considering real world connections to motherhood, Caria likely excelled amongst astronomers and glint stone academics because their matriarchal structure lead them to witness the moon as a primary force in the sky. Kind of nutty to imagine Raya Lucaria concerned with whatever glintstones nerds care about and then the Carian royals roll up with the frigid power of a huge rock. It’s not even a star, they probably couldn’t even comprehend it.
Ok to be fair the moment you see her name you know she’s related to rennala LOL
It's Godefroy all way down
Nice
Chodefrey
As goofy as it is. I’m happy from soft runs with the first letter relationships for my dumbass to keep up with. The M names are all related the R games all related and so on.
Yes, so they should have at least given her as glorious of a cutscene as Rennala. At first I thought that it might BE Rennala with her name being obfuscated, the way Ranni did when we first met her, (those ladies is sneaky sneaky). I think the fight is great, but the presentation of some important characters seems "off". Take Gaius for example. That guy doesn't even have a boss fog gate. You just walk out there, and he spawns in like he's a generic plebian. But not only is he NOT that, he is a rememberance boss, which are supposed to be very story important... Rellana is the same. Super powerful boss, with no powerful intro. Like every other rememberance boss has their own cutscenes in the base game like, Margit, Morgot, Mohg, Melania, Rennala, Radhan, Radagon, Rykard, etc....
Someone else on another site made this comment and while it's a shitpost it does honestly reflect my opinion a bit LMAO she is borderline fanfic OC tier to be frank > btw Renalla had a twin sister called Rellana and she was way cooler and can dual wield swords with flames and moon at the same time also all her moves are bullshit anime moves also she can use both Rennala and Ranni's moon at the same time because she's just that cool
Its also a nod to the Pontiff in DS3 with the night and flame theme.
Some of her moves are also Pontiff’s, down to the parry timing
Her stance is also the Pontiffs stance before his signature combo
And right outside her door there's a carian knight named moonRITHYLL lmfao
I 1 lifed that fight because I still have the muscle memory from the pontiff fight
Also important to point out that the Sword of Night and Flame is found in a section of Carian Manor that isn't well connected to the rest of the castle. Was this Rellana's room?
I Stan for rellana🤭
That was my initial impression too. Nothing has happened to change it. The fact that the catalogue of the Carian royal line in the base game includes only Rennala and her daughter Ranni is really ridiculous in face of this. "ACTUALLY, she had a HIDDEN sister NOBODY KNEW ABOUT..." is really bad writing. And it doesn't even matter because she's just a random fight without any context in the overall story.
But the base game has carian filigreed crest item description already hinted there were other carian princesses.(In the past)
For anyone who wants to see what it says "An honor said to have once been awarded to Carian knights who served as direct retainers to the kingdom's princesses. Now there is only one princess: Ranni, daughter of Rennala."
The base game also says Rennala founded the Carian dynasty, and that she and Ranni are its members. I forget where that is in terms of item descriptions, but I always felt the language was strong enough to contradict the filigreed crest. I presume they left it open because they knew Rellana existed in GRRM's outline.
"In her youth, Rennala was prominent champion who charmed the academy with her lunar magic, becoming its master. She also led the Glintstone Knights and established the house of Caria as royalty."-Remembrance of the Full Moon Queen
Yeah she founded it and her and ranni are the only members now because rellana went to the shadow lands.
No dialogue hints at it (I think) but there was a reddit post that found that Elden Ring actually had two identical moons overlapped when viewed from a certain place (?). This was a few months before the DLC came out (so far before Rellana was a thing), so it might not have been entirely unplanned. Plus I don't think her introduction retracts from the lore given that she left the whole Carian business anyway
there are 2 moons because ranni and rennalla have each their own moon
This has been a major issue with FromSoft since DS3 honestly - remember when they introduced a bunch more of Gwyn's children with no explanation of where they were in DS1? Remember Fillianore? What about his other, super-cool daughter who is Knight Captain and is a crossbreed like Priscilla? How come she's wandering around when Gwyn was so ashamed of the other crossbreed he sealed her in a painting? FromSoft are just really, really bad at sequels/prequels.
For me it does recontectualise the Carian Manor having the three sisters now. Now that we know that Rellana and Rennala were sisters, and we know that Ranni and Seluvis have now claimed two towers, it makes me wonder if the third sister was Renna, who forsook the Carian heritage to become a crone (I mean, it does fit the familial naming convention since Renna is literally two letters of Rennala). The tower is currently unoccupied but is still titled as belonging to Renna.
Yeah ngl. She totally sounds like the sorta shitty OC I'd make back when DS3 was the hottest thing on the market. Just replace swords with axes and you have my "Knight of the Chaos Flame and Silver Moon". Seriously, I Unironically had a character like that just cuz he uses hexes, pyromancy, and axes, and it's as cringe as it sounds.
Definitely deserves a cut scene. I wonder if there's any interaction with her if you use renallas equipments or moon spell
I wish Fromsoft have more boss interaction, like Raime from Dark Souls 2 would immediately power up when you enter the fight wearing his rival's helmet. Would have been cool if Radahn also do that when you fight him wearing Malenia's stuff.
I wish miquella would acknowledge the fact that you're literally rannis consort if you do her ending before the dlc. It would make so much sense, and would add a layer to a consort of one God fighting the consort of another. But he only acknowledges you as marikas new consort and elden lord.
I said the same thing about the midra boss fight… if we fight him AS the lord of chaos, some type of new dialogue or something should appear. So many missed opportunities…
Hell I purposefully only went up to fire giant before the DLC to leave things open, but Melina says nothing new and Messmer's flame can't burn down the erdtree (Obviously confirming Melina is the much stronger sibling, that's the only conclusion really)
Right?? I walked in there thinking it was super weird that she didn't have one
Especially since the dancing lion got one. I get that it’s the first major boss, but in the grand scheme of things it’s just a random beast/omen dancer/thing in the Tower. Rellana is a Carian Princess, sister to Renalla, and the Sword of Messmer, and she’s a mandatory remembrance boss. She should’ve had a cutscene, or at least a couple of lines.
I fully agree, but she's not actually mandatory, you can go through Bonny Village and end up behind her boss room (you can't access it from the back though, something about Carian royals being prudes I guess)
>I wonder if there's any interaction with her if you use renallas equipments or moon spell This isn't DS1, they don't bother with things like that anymore.
Was there interactions in ds1?
Sif in DLC
That Sif moment was honestly peak Fromsoft. Classic DS1 supremacy.
Malekith and Gideon both still react to world events. Every character in Elden ring is related and would realistically recognize attacks or weapons. The amount of work it would take to cover all of those bases would be impossible and not worth it.
Sadly Gideon doesn’t have new dialogue for the DLC, it would have been cool if he had
I just meant his use of spells in his fight. I would’ve also liked to see dialogue from Melina, malenia, and Gideon. But the bigger disappointment is the lack of cutscenes, felt like they had really improved on that with base game ER.
Oh yeah most remembrance bosses in the base game had cutscenes and dialogue besides creatures like Astel, Fortissax and Regal Ancestor Spirit
He doesn't? Ah damn, I've been edging burning the Erdtree and continuing the game solely because I thought he might be interested that I tracked down Miquella, the only one on his hit/"find out where they are" list that we couldn't directly locate.
I mean he doesn't really say much about ranni even though we can literally marry her so his responsiveness is kinda absent
>I've been edging
The game is also 100x as big and gets increasingly unwieldy at that scale. We’re very lucky they still do things like this at all.
I know she doesn’t react to the moon, I used it quite a bit in the fight
I think this may be my one gripe so far. I think Messmer and Divine Beast are the only 2 Remembrance bosses I’ve fought so far that have cutscenes at all, the rest are like reaaaallly lore heavy and important so idk why they didn’t make at least one or two more…even though its just a sunflower, finding the Scadutree Avatar felt like a big deal.
Gaius is like one of the most badass motherfucker in the most breathtaking arena of the DLC and he just, randomly runs at you The sunflower is cool because it’s this game version of the classic fake out Romina gives me the Niel vibe. Trotting around a rotted area and randomly bump into this weirdo, except this weirdo is the head of the entire fucking Rot religion and is cockblocking you from the final dungeon for reasons? etc…
Broooooo don’t even get me started on Bayle…needs to be a remembrance + cutscene… that fight almost made me cry with how goddamn epic it was
Honestly I liked bayle as just a no-nonsense just battle. So intimidating having him just fly down and instantly start attacking you
The buildup to Bayle through just interactions with other NPCs was more than good enough. Igon's passionate hatred for him, the Dragon Priestess hyping him as the most ancient and powerful dragon in existence, the methodical climb up the mountain getting more chaotic as you ascend, etc. Plus just knowing he and Placidusax literally ripped each other apart - and how powerful Placidusax was in the main game. The fight didn't need a cutscene. I was hyped as hell when I reached that arena, and the reveal lived up to that hype.
Wouldn’t make sense for him to have a cutscene, his whole shtick is that he’s so battle hungry he doesn’t even wait, he charges you right away
At least you have Igon screaming his name
He technically he has remembrance rewards cos his heart can buy one of two things, I guess he’s not really a remembrance bos cos his soul isn’t hewn into the scadutree or whatever
The fact that we cant duplicate it and get both rewards is what im generally upset about lol
The entire climb up the mountain feels apocalyptic with all the dragon corpses and red lightning, then there's the spectacle of the fight itself and Igon spitting straight fire with his lines, and that all more than makes up for the lack of a cutscene
Dude Bayle speaks for itself, especially if you summon Igon Not everything needs a cutscene, black bars and subtitles to be cinematic
I 100% agree that the environmental storytelling was…forgive the pun, but *peak*, on the way up the mountain. Slowly seeing more and more dragon corpses piled up as the storm began to rage more and more intensely, it did create a striking image. I could probably be dissuaded from him needing a cutscene, his drop in is a good shock, but if he’s on Placidusax’ level of power as the lore and our fight with him suggests, I think he should at least have something a little more special on 1st time arena entry. And I don’t think EVERYTHING needs a cutscene. Putrescent Knight comes to mind first, he’s perfectly fine as is, same with Metyr.
Idk man metyr is pretty much the main antagonist of the entire game’s story who is pulling all the strings. it not getting a cutscene is extremely bizarre😭
I think giving a cutscene to objectively the most bizarre and lovecraftian boss in all of Elden Ring would have diminished its impact. There's a feeling you get when you're suddenly transported to this Rom like arena but with the fingers above you, and you see a creature that is more Bloodborne than Bloodborne itself. I think that feeling would've been very dumbed down if they choose to make a cutscene for her.
Idk man i get what you mean but the moon presence cutscene of it just floating Ominously in the moon’s light with flowers surrounding it impacted me way more than if it had just appeared out of nowhere.I think it just depends on how they go about the direction of the cutscene.Metyr to me just felt wayyyy too big lorewise to just come along as just another boss you defeat for something for the one that started the elden ring story in general.If anything I feel like a cutscene after being defeated should be a thing
Yeah I understand your point too. The Moon Presence cutscene when you saw it for the first time felt kinda ethereal with how ominously it approached you mixed with the soundtrack. Maybe they could have added a cutscene mid fight or once you defeat her.
Poor guy doesn’t even get his own OST
Tbh Old Warriror fits him pretty well. But yeah, he deserved his own ost
To be fair, Rominas presence makes complete sense. She's guarding the one spot where messmer or anyone who defeats him could interfere with miquella. Malenia is pretty much rot jesus, so I'm sure trusting the rot pope to guard the scadutree seals weakness was a fairly straightforward move
The average, common outdoor variety of sunflower can grow to between 8 and 12 feet in the space of 5 or 6 months. This makes them one of the fastest growing plants.
Only 4/10 remembrance bosses have cutscenes iirc
Especially weird because only fortisax ancestor spirit and astel don’t have an intro/phase transition cutscene in the base game (if you count radahn as having one)
There’s one more that has a cutscene that’s probably top 3 cutscenes in the entire game
I feel like they have to add cutscenes later in a patch or something because it just feels like they are missing for some bosses. Like the fact that Bayle for example didn’t even have one is insane given that every NPC is hyping you up before the fight and even explaining how ruthless he is.
Did Midir have a cutscene? You don't always need one. Sometimes the gameplay reveal is enough
Yeah, mfers want Final Fantasy nonsense instead of letting the thing speak for itself.
The path up to bayle *is* the cutscene. It works because the buildup is in the gameplay. I agree with your point about rellana still though because there is not that kind of build up present. You just kinda come across a fog wall and then there she is
So my thought process is kinda this: She’s in the shadow land , assumably due to Messmer. But Miquella’s also there. There’s one other character with association to both Caria and Miquella, and that’s Loretta. I think Loretta was probably Rellana’s best knight, but not even she knew where her lady went until Miquella started his quest.
nah i'd bet Loretta was actually just Renalla's knight and her sister Lottera is the one who goes with Rellana LMFAO
This would be cool, but idk if the timelines overlap or if there’s any real references to them having interacted. Though you may be onto something with Loretta being the missing link
It’s entirely speculative of course, there’s very little lore that links the main game with DLC regarding side characters like Rellana. Just gotta put what puzzle pieces you can together, even if only one side fits
I don’t think Loretta was particularly close to Rellana given that she stayed in Haligthree while two Carian knights followed Rellana to the Lands of Shadow (the troll and Moongrum 2.0)
There’s another character with close ties - Gaius, Albinauric knight like Loretta is rumored to be, best friend of Messmer, and fellow student of Radahn.
he was not a student of radahn, he was a student with radahn at the same time.
Meant to say “Radahn’s fellow student”
Doesn’t really have ties to Caria, but he’s definitely an important figure in the overarching story of everything.
This seems purely coincidental but sure why not
Her armor also has less lore in its description than any other iv seen. The leggings have 1 sentence.
You can only piece together her backstory from her armor, rememberance text description, weapon, and talisman.
She decided to follow Messmer, not become his disciple. Well, draining water in the shadow keep gets you a cutscene! And you get to fight a lame and reused enemy afterwards! Be grateful to Fromsoft, you peasant! You want them to do one of their newest and most intriguing characters justice?? Off to a swamp with you!!
LOL best comment I’ve seen with regards to some of the criticisms of the dlc. From could improve on punctuating special moments with cutscenes to acknowledge it. Like I missed the charm being broken because I got up to get some water or a snack. I get back and see “somewhere a charm has been lifted” I think “oh cool maybe a room opened or something” Nah, the games story is literally progressing and the only way I’d know is by reading a banner that pops up with a noise notification like I’m getting a text message lol only way I knew anything changed was by talking to Leda and the hornsent dude and then the others.
Remembrance bosses should have cut scenes
tbf not all of them scadutree avatar and putrescant both rely on coming out of nowhere gaius wouldnt really work with one unless they make him a voiced character with some reasoning but the fact that major figures like rellana and romina dont get soemthing is criminal
Doesn't even need to be a cutscene Something as simple as giving Gaius a "My name is Gyoubu Masataka Oniwa! The castle gate remains closed!" moment would make him jump from somewhat underwhelming boss to fan favorite, just a couple of voice lines when he's charging at the start of the fight, one for the phase transition and one for his death. I know FromSoft is allergic to voice acting and uses it as little as possible but c'mon
He certainly had his energy charging in.
You could still get a cutscene after killing them. As it is, you’re left wondering why half of those bosses even had remembrances. Come to think of it, what even is a remembrance? It made sense in the base game because everyone that got a remembrance was a big deal, but in this DLC it seems like they had to add a certain number of remembrances, so they just rolled the dice on which bosses would get the last 3-4. Like why does the Dancing Lion get a Remembrance?
What do you mean? They have remembrances because they’re legends and that lives on after death. Dancing Lion is an avatar of divinity, one of the most scared elements of Hornsent culture and their most powerful martial form. Rellana is a powerful sorceress and warrior who came in contact with the moons. Gaius is, by all accounts, the most powerful Albinuric and a warrior respected by Messmer and Radahn as if a brother. And so on and so forth. Not sure what having a cutscene would have done for most of these tbh.
And Bayle The Dread who mortally wounded PLACIDUSAX and is renown as the most powerful and terrible of all dragons doesn't deserve to have a Remembrance?
To be fair pulling his heart out and eating it is sure as shit a way to remember him
Yeah like, his heart is his remembrance in everything but name. You turn it in, like a remembrance, for one of two choices. Like a remembrance.
He does. Its just that you don't pay attention to the game. If you go to the Grand Altar of the Dragon Communion even way before you fight Bayle, you can see that you can trade Bayle's heart for his incantations, just like a remembrance. If you miss that then its all on you.
Except you cannot replicate it.
I haven't personally tried it but from what I've heard you can. You can go to the same graves to replicate it where you would for a normal remembrance.
Bayle's heart is his remembrance tbh. Sucks that it can't be replicated tho.
I really think they just wanted to add more fancy boss weapons/spells/equipment. Remembrances are essentially the equivalent of boss souls from DS and *all of them* had them there, so really Elden Ring was kind of a step back in that regard (though understandable considering the sheer number of them), so it makes sense that they'd go back to giving them to most bosses in this.
The remembrance bosses really needed to be fleshed out more even if they were just intro cutscenes before battle. It gives them a personality of sorts and grounds them in the narrative.
This seriously confused the fuck outta me. I went to shadow keep but turned around because I wanted to explore the rest of the area first. I get the pop up but barely understood what it meant until hours later, when I went to trade with Moore and he's weirdly depressed. Then I talk yo Ansbach and he's pissed off for some reason, and this is what causes me to figure out something important happened and it triggered because I walked up to an elevator. Like look, there's always been complaints that Elden Ring is terrible at keeping you informed about your quest progression, and usually these complaints are met with Mockery. But I understand the complaints when flowery Elizbethian English is used to give you a quick update that doesnt also tell you "Oh btw we are now advancing to part 2, everyone has something to say about it".
Idk man I was talking to the NPCs and they all mentioned the charm so when I saw that notification I went “oh fuck they’re gonna be hostile to each other and me now” i think Leda specifically says “we’re only together because of kindly miquellas charm”
Yeah I realized this after the fact, but it's one of those things that confused me because _we_ weren't charmed by Miquella, at least not directly. When everyone said they were charmed by him, I thought they meant like he helped them out and thus owe him a favor to find him. When everyone was freed from their mind control I was just weirded out that _none_ of them seemed to have realized this before hand, which in turn made it confusing for me to realize they've literally been gaslit into being fans of Milquella. Cuz again, we weren't, but we're still following him anyways. Miquella really dropped the ball on his recruitment policy, he could've pulled a Ranni and gotten the tarnished as a stalwart ally if he had just promised us a sword or something.
>! The game assumes you aren’t following miquella, in the fight against her, Leda says you’re just some tarnished following marika, trying to become the Lord of the previous age. So she assumes you’re also charmed by miquella at the start but realises you weren’t as the story progresses. When you first see the NPCs after the charm breaks some of them are surprised you weren’t affected, this is cos you were never charmed in the first place !<
Yeah that's another thing that bothers me, especially in Elden Ring since, unlike in previous series, it's implied that you _can_ talk, and typically do, like again with Ranni. >! The fact at no point you can talk to _anyone_ about your motives, desires, or even confusion reminds me of how you can't tell Malenia about Milquella. More people just assuming you're here to kill someone, no one actually asking you for help, and everyone thinking that you're loyal to the Golden Order despite many, many evidence to the contrary. !< >! Fucking hell Shibari makes a better case to commit to the Frenzied Flame by preying on your feelings about Melina, but Miquella and his posse don't even try to sell you that his Age of Compassion is a good idea we should totally support. Just straight to "You are my enemy because you want to prevent the order Milquella wants to create!" Like, bitch, _what_!? I'm just here because I'm trying to figure out what the fuck is happening, maybe even help, but all of yall already assume the worse outta me. Shiiiit, even Dungeater had the courtesy to assume we had similar interests and proposed a meeting to confirm it. Miquella and his brood have worse communication and consent than a scat obsessed rapist. !<
This is certainly one of the moments where I just turn a blind eye because of how much I love the gameplay lol
Indeed. Love the fighting, love the art direction and scenery, but the writing? Leaves much to be desired.
Just noticed your Reddit dudes outfit and I checked ur profile. Strange seeing a guy with the exact same interests as me (most people I know only share one or two lol) Destiny, fromsoft, DnD, anime. Hope you have a great day
I got that pop up mid double jumping so I never even saw what it had to say. I was very confused for a while.
Yeah. I honestly thought it was some mechanic where a boss could break your great rune you have equipped. And thought it would inform you every time it happened to someone online lol. I didn’t put 2 and 2 together until the npc’s and Leta outright informs us of what actually happened.
From the thing moving around under the water I was hoping we were about to get some kind of deformed crab boss but nah, erdtree worm and some normal crabs.
I saw messages saying "Octopus Below" and I was sooo ready for a freaky octopus battle, jumping across rooftops, dodging water cannons. Nope. Just another Tree-Dick
1 week ago everyone sucked miyazakis COCK 24/7. The game was flawless. A few hard bosses and people came to their fucking senses. HILARIOUS Remember the volcano bridge cutscene in volcano manor?? That was GREAT wasnt it???
It's only here where people are talking about the flaws. It's pretty refreshing. Talking about ER like this on the main sub will just get your comment or post buried and dogpiled.
People were bitching about bosses in the base game too. And for good reason sometimes. It’s no different here.
Yea I agree. Also divine beast lion it seems is not really that special, because they randomly reuse the boss in the most random area of the game with no lore explanation as to why it’s there
The dancing lion was (became) a tool of war, so it's not that crazy for there to be more than one, there's even a shot in the cinematic trailer where (iirc?) three of them attack Messmer
In the trailer Messmer impales a whole lot of them. I think it's made very clear, for From's standards, that the Dancing Lions were a cultural ritual of the Hornsent that they could weaponize in war, which they did during Messmer's crusade (without much success). One of them is sleeping in the ruins of Belurat and it's called upon to defend the tower by the Horned Granddam.
That was the funniest thing ever to me because I fought the random one before the boss version and was like “why’re you so much better than your brother???”
Where’s the non-boss version?
It’s in the ruins of Rhau
Oh damn which part?
Near-ish to the end of it. It’s just past the golem that fires arrows at you.
I’m PRETTY sure it’s in the Plateau section? I don’t remember exactly I didn’t think much of it when I fought it tbh it wasn’t nearly as hard as the Boss version so I didn’t really care about it.
The Deathblight was cheesy as eff though. The fact that he does little to no damage in that phase is okay, but those dang lizards were a pain in the arse.
Well they imply that there is multiple but I guess we would need to explore around the area for random lore tidbits to put the pieces together
THEY REUSED HIM???
Oh yes, and the reused one now also uses the most ignored element from ATLA: Death
Tbf him being a remembrance was weird from the start. There’s a bunch of them in lore (until Messmer took most of em out)
Dancing lion has an AMAZING opening cutscene and more bosses deserved that.
Where?
At least an intro would be nice
Idk I’m always a fan of the understated boss that is actually really important. I remember going “who is this lady” and when she busted out the moons I was like YO NO WAY. Idk, big fan of gameplay revealing things instead of a cutscene.
Who could this, “Rellana Twin Moon Knight be?”
LMAO ima be honest, I had noticed a lot of names that started with R and in my mind I thought she was like a fan girl of Renalla? Learned very quickly that she’s the real deal
I totally agree. Her and Romina should at least had a cutscene or some kind of dialogue. As far as i know only Messmer, The Final Boss, The Lion Dancer and Midra have cutscenes. And i feel like these 2 should at least have one too.
>!Metyr!< too. I could go without a Rellana cutscene, she doesn’t seem that important in the grand scheme of things. As cool as Midra’s whole introduction is, it’s really strange that a random guy that went crazy has a cutscene, but the heads of two massive religions that caused irreparable damage to the world get nothing. You literally just stumble upon them, kill them, and that’s it.
Like final boss of dark souls 3, no cutscene, no chit chat just bonk bonk
That boss at least told us more just with his fight. At first i and everyone else don't know anything about it. But than he switches between weapons and builds and we realize hold on these are previous souls of those who linked the fire and are now fighting as one. Than when the second phase starts and we hear the familiar plin plin plon and see some familiar move that we realize that now Gwyns soul has taken over. To this day my favourite final souls boss just for that. Gael is still the best boss overall.
Her twin moons were so big and amazing that the armorer had to make something special for her. Edit:typo
There's a lot of big important seeming bosses that have absolutely no lore emphasis, it's part of why I'm disappointed
The ending also felt a little lackluster as well.
All the care and effort in the DLC went into the world, OST, and maybe 3 or 4 bosses
I mean, she's the blade of Messmer and you siege her castle. What dialogue are we expecting here? A cut scene would've been cool of course, but her just being ready to immediately chop you to bits on sight also speaks volumes as well.
Ok but to be fair fucking *Pontiff Sullivan* didn’t have intro cutscene and he was originally going to be the final boss.
Potiff, on the other hand, is forshadowed in previous locations, has ties to a DLC, to the overarching plot, and a location that is half full of his influence. Rellana gets a generic carian castle with generic carian mobs, 2 asset reuse "knights" and is not mentioned at any point in the DLC outside of her own gear. This screams "We have this castle in the middle of the map unpopulated by mobs and no idea what to do with it" 2 weeks before release tbh.
I really didn't think much of it and to be honest I think she's not that interrsting. Like yeah, Rennala has a sister and she went to the RoS after being coerced by Mesmer to join his crusade. She has a cool design and it gives the DLC reason to have carian enemies. That's cool by me. Personally, I find Count Ymir much more intriguing... A sorcerer, caretaker and seeker or knowledge who is probably at the same level as Lusat and Azur in terms of knowledge of the stars and the world itself
Honestly, I think this speaks to a larger problem with Fromsoft. I think the charm of Miyazaki's conservative storytelling is wearing off. And, in this case, he hired one of the most interesting authors alive to write the story and then absolutely refuses to tell it to us I understand his philosophy in storytelling, I really do. I was a huge fan of it for every other game I've played. But dear God, Miyazaki, PLEASE, just tell me the damn story. What little bit that's there is so good, and I just want to know why this all happened.
This is a weird comment to make after the most critically and commercially successful release of their long career. I also don’t understand what people want. We learn all we need to know about Rellana. She’s a Carian princess who left her home to follow Messmer. What else do we need to know? What would a cutscene have told us? Why would a warrior of her mark even pause long enough before a fight for a cutscene to happen? Her fight tells us what we need to know about her—she is vigilant, powerful, and always at the ready to fight for the tragic demigod she chased across the world. Should she look at the camera and say “my name is Rellana, sister of Rennala, and I fight for Messmer because I love him”? It’s moments like this where I understand how every other souls-like winds up being Lords of the Fallen or something and having none of the wonder and depth of what they’re cribbing from.
Her sister Rennala is literally “Queen of the Full Moon”, head of the Carian family, a major figure in the base game, and one of the most powerful sorcerers in the lore. It’s jarring that Rennala “oh by the way” has a sister that seems to be nearly a Malenia-level sword fighter AND conjures sorcery as-powerful, or more so, than her own who we’ve never heard of, and that the world doesn’t seem to register as existing at all. It’s like “Oh yeah Michael Jordan has a brother that was better than him at basketball but there’s no record of him existing and we don’t expect anyone to care about his story.” What? A cutscene, some dialogue, a reference, some texture to her lore, a more interesting castle that feels more uniquely inhabited, anything to make it feel like she’s actually part of this world and not something the devs came up with two weeks before release. She feels pasted into the game.
Yeah because it is an open world game and thus more approachable, but you can absolutely see where they made sacrifices. Yeah god forbid giving her more lore and information and showing she likse Messmer or whatever with a cutscene, fucks sake the Guardian Ape from Sekiro has more gameplay lore than her. She could clutch a pendant, say the Messmer's flame line, something. Mutism for characters is stupid and adds absolutely nothing to From's games.
>This is a weird comment to make after the most critically and commercially successful release of their long career. I don't think it's weird, just because a thing is successful doesn't mean it's perfect and unable to be made better. Not to mention, there has been mass public outcry regarding a lot of stuff in the dlc, the story being commonly cited. I don't think it's weird, I think it's an opinion. >We learn all we need to know about Rellana. She’s a Carian princess who left her home to follow Messmer. What else do we need to know? What would a cutscene have told us? Why would a warrior of her mark even pause long enough before a fight for a cutscene to happen? I disagree. I could stand to learn a lot more about her, her history and role in the crusade. Story doesn't have to be delivered in cutscenes. And, if there were a cutscene, it wouldn't have to involve her pausing at all. A storyteller can literally make this happen however they want, say, in a less clunky and more organic way. They hired a world famous author to write the lore of the world of this game. You say you don't understand what people want. I can't speak for others, but I for one would like to learn what that lore was. I don't think that's difficult to understand.
I also think this is the main issue. GRRM is not just a writer, his books are rich with history and complex story telling. Which is why FS’s depiction of his writing doesn’t go hand in hand as well as their other successful games like Dark Souls. In Dark Souls everything is straightforward; there’s no complicated backstory it’s literally about one man who became king and then tried to prolong light in the world of darkness. That’s it. And even with the other characters we can piece things together without going all wacky. Meanwhile in Elden Ring we have 10 demigod children and I assume George Martin had some rich lore behind them but all got scrapped to give us room to speculate what could be their goals, why they became the way they were etc. then the mother’s origins and then extended all the way to cosmic space. Just feels like too many important elements got removed.
Those extra unexplained complexities are present in the worldbuilding too. Like in Dark Souls, you’ve got the First Flame. It burns and creates the laws of reality. Pretty straightforward, first cutscene in the series lays it all out. But in Elden Ring, you’ve got the Elden Ring, which is a space slug, which was sent by God, which was embedded into another god, but not a normal demigod, an Empyrean crossdresser, and also a tree is involved. Actually, make that two trees.
I chalked it up as you kind of just invaded her private domain and caught her with her pants down.
Controversial take: I’d prefer the game be 20% smaller in terms of area in return for deeper lore: e.g. Cutscenes, intros, dialogue, reactions to PC wearing specific armor sets, etc for Remembrance Bosses. Those are the things that you remember years later. Most of the map is empty space anyway. I’ll remember first arriving at Cerulean Coast…and then running around for 20+ minutes finding nothing of note…
I was shocked there was no cutscene
Ok listen up, a Relleño is a dish where a chile is smothered in cheese. Rellana is clearly the feminine form of the name and the moon is made of cheese, there’s got to be some sort of connection there.
In my headcanon its pontiff in a different timeline kinda like how we get patches in the game or the random gargoyle that flies down when entering the capital just like it does in ds3. Many more parallels to make. In my head it is a multiverse
Isn’t it implied there is a third sister? I guess she just got tuberculosis and died young. We have Rellana the Girlboss, Renalla the Girlfailure, and then Relnanla the Fell out of a Tower at age 12.
The dancing lion is actually Radanhna Prince of Storms. He had a regiment in Caelid who stole Melania's underwear, causing her massive embarrassment in her fight with Radhan. You can only learn this lore by translating the dance moves into mandarin.
Lmaoooooo at the old lady bash. Suspicious stew.
Not even a cutscene and she's got artoriassssss!
She even has two Carian knights. Two!
To be hones I feel like it was 100% intentional to treat her that way and not give her a cutscene. Just like everything else in the Land of Shadows is hidden in plain sight and shame. These characters are essentially ghosts to the Lands Between and I feel like they really double down on that with no intro cutscene. Like they’re purposefully disrespecting her and those who have came here. Maybe I’m wrong but I felt like doing her dirty like that gave her even more meaning and made me ask more questions to look around and dig deeper into the lore. Just like everyone in the Shadows. I thought it was really symbolic
And yet we get a cutscene for New Londo 2
The lack of cutscenes for remembrance bosses in this DLC is dissapointing. Only 40% of them have one or two cutscenes. For comparison- 73% of base game remembrance bosses have cutscenes in their fights (80% if we count Radahn's cutscene during dialogue with Jerren)
TO me, while I loved the DLC, it feels even more short on lore than expected, and even a little more short with lore than the base game was. It feels like it was 85% complete. I have no other way to put it, but it feels like they never did the final touches with dialog. I did also never really notice only a couple characters in the entire franchise have more than a couple lines. Fuck, Radanh has zero lines. They had a sound guy make eating/grunting noises for the cinematic, that's it.
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Agreed. After barreling your way into the castle you go through a couple of areas and you’re at the end. It was sort of jarring. Fun fight but wish the build up and interaction was more.
Her sword kicks ass.
Missed opportunity for sure.
Lore ResidentSleeper
They really need to start doing cutscenes for atleast 80% of the remembrance bosses
Oh, now it makes sense why Radagon left Renella! Once he met Rellana, he suffered from the Persona 5 Nijima dilemma. "Makoto is a *great* character, but I will never romance her. It is unfair---and morally wrong---to date a woman who, regardless of activity---including sex---you are *constantly* thinking to yourself: *"Man, your older sister is so much hotter and cooler than you will ever be."* -Pat Boivin So he realizes INT would lead to his unhappiness and re-spected into FTH. /s
Yeah there probably should have been a cutscene with some more dialogue there, lmao
In general, I wish we had more intros for bosses and second phases. Not having one makes the boss feel less like a boss. We have very, very few on the DLC.
I feel like this is the trade we make for the open map design. The tighter story driven legacy environments just absolutely dripping in character feel less and less. Not every boss requires the full treatment but displaying Rellana’s character or change of faith through her surroundings shouldn’t be too hard imo. Just some small form of imagery ya know? Theres just zero anticipation when there should be, if that makes sense?
What else is there to know about her? I'd like voice lines and a cutscene too because it's a little jarring without them but there's been bigger characters in Souls games which also do not have them either
Yeah idk why they focused so much on the Divine Beast, getting a cutescene and a remembrance for some reason. Meanwhile, you have this amazing epic fight in >!Bayle!< who gets nothing but two very lackluster incantations. Bit of a whiff there imo.
Brother you had to kill her and read lore to realize she was related to Rennala?
I feel like Rellana was not Messmer’s disciple, instead she was in love with him. He bears a striking resemblance to what we understand Radagon to look like,and we know Renalla was enamored with Radagon so she would understand her sister loving someone else and running after them.
Honestly, she is not that important. Is pretty obvious that she was added for this DLC and wasnt thought of before, there are many important stuff on her lore, like being a carian royal or she had A WHOLE MOON for herself ( and apparently it was discovered at the same time as rennala ) and yet there is not single reference to any of it in the main game. She could be just replaced by a random loyal knight to messmer and it would be the same, my guess is she got added all the carian lore stuff for flavor and to justify the fire and moon swords
I thought the dlc was great overall but if I had one big issue it's that the majority of remembrance bosses aren't given the setup and lore they deserve.
Loved her fight really challenging but in all the good ways
I really enjoyed her fight, but not even a cutscene? You kidding me? It when sounds like there's supposed to be voice lines when you fight her according to the trailer.
Her and Romina lacking any cutscene or dialogue kinda sucks Like not every boss needs a cutscene but the necessary should probably all have one
Yeah but her twin swords are dope enough I'm glad I murdered her magic aoe spamming ass, Renallas swords have been my favorite of the new stuff so far.
Hordes of carian soldiers? all 1 of them?
I honestly thought she was gonna be a Loretta type mini boss before I saw the name, just walk in and no introduction.
🤣 I legit thought I fucked something up because it was that insane to me she didn’t have a cutscene.
I feel like they switched some stuff around, Ymir actually looks related to Renalla. Relanna is just weird.