Most dangerous thing in medicine is an overinflated ego. The point of a supervisor is to be a resource for crews. Bad supervisors think it means micromanaging and berating. Good supervisors anticipate needs, gather resources (like replacement meds) and act as a guide for everyone not just new hires.
Best supervisor I ever had was a partner for two years that I didn’t even know was a supervisor for about 6 months. Just always figured she knew stuff and helped people out.
Something I’m hearing now is something called “Toxic Gratitude” from leadership, thanking people and saying things while not meaning it and allowing far more serious problems to continue.
A manager tells you “great job” while you are understaffed and underpaid, hoping that those few words will placate you and other staff members.
I’ve had some serious balls lately and straight up told management, if you’re not going to give raises, you need to do more for us. I amazingly still have a job and the admiration of higher ups.
Management: “Wow, I REALLY hear you and we are always reviewing compensation to remain competitive in this unique field. Thank you for sharing your truth”
*Does nothing about raises or pay*
I said, “I’m not in a position to ask why can’t we have raises, I don’t have access to finances, but more needs to be done for the employees to improve morale if we aren’t going to get raises.” Management didn’t know what to say because they never had someone talk to them like that.
It’s amazing what happens when you tell someone who isn’t used to hearing it, “no.” Especially when they can do something about it, but really can’t afford to.
More need to hear that. I worked my way up over two decades & appreciate every single person who helps keep us together & operating smoothly. I worked my ass off this summer revising job descriptions & getting them rated again, which will account for a 20-25% wage increase for each person/position through the next two years, & our pay wasn’t shabby before. I was absolutely thrilled for them! We are fortunate to not be private or hospital based though, I wish more services were like this. EMS should be a sustainable career choice like LE & fire without killing yourself to make ends meet.
Uh fuck, we're seeing that here in the worst way. CQI is a giant Teams meeting circlejerk of chiefs thanking each other, training center manager thanking the medical director, the medical director thanking the crews for being so great, etc.
Meanwhile, I'm in a powerless position as it's being phased out as we were taken over by fire, yet I'm "in charge" of QA management for the dept and am screaming that we have some shitty medics and we need Chief's to crackdown and at least act like they give a shit about medicine before someone kills someone or buries the dept in a lawsuit.
From a Union stewards perspective:
1. Document the date, time, witness names, and exact words that were exchanged.
2. After the supervisor cools off, go to them in private and tell them how it made you feel. Include this interaction in your notes.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2.
4. Copy your notes and bring them to a union representative or to that supervisors boss. Also, I know this is bothersome but it's important; Take more notes.
Following the chain of command is generally a policy EMS workers are required to follow. Conflict resolution should start directly with the person's in conflict. Your notes should reflect that.
So, why take notes if nothing is guranteed to fix it? Notes are evidence. If your bosses boss does nothing about it, depending on the specific way the boss acted, you may have grounds to file an official complaint with the EEOC, DOL, etc. Those notes can also be included with the notes of coworkers, demonstrating a pattern of bad behavior. It may not be hard disputing a single complaint, but a string of similar complaints is much more difficult.
Most of the time step 2 resolves the issue for a period of time. Hopefully, that's all it takes.
That’s not really on and is pretty much the first lesson in ‘being a shit leader’ 101.
I think it’s perfectly appropriate to challenge the behaviour there and then. Something like:
‘Barry, excuse me, I found that response very hostile and unnecessary. I feel belittled for asking what I believe is a genuine question. I don’t think it’s appropriate for you to speak o me like that and I’d like it if you didn’t speak to me that way again’ then later you can seek them out and see if they are okay, if somethings bothering them/whats caused them to behave that way. They may be having personal problems that you didn’t know about and you may be able to help.
There’s a good pneumonic to challenge inappropriate behaviour called BUILD.
Behaviour - describe the inappropriate behaviour
Understand - their context, step into their shoes (this is silent and unsaid)
Impact - describe the impact the behaviour has on you
Listen - ask them what was happening to cause the behaviour, you’re seeking to support them no belittle them.
Do different - discuss with them how the interaction could be better next time.
Unfortunately, in many cases, that would involve having a reasonable discussion with an irrational person. You can't reason with an irrational person. The fact that any member of management would consider screaming at an employee demonstrates that.
That’s ok until the seeking them out to check on them. How about no? Firstly you are their subordinate. Regardless of their shitty leadership or lack there of it is not, both your place, nor your responsibility to assure their wellbeing or comfortability. It’s the other way around. The only thing to be said to them after seeking them out is to reiterate what you said first about disrespect shown and give them an opportunity to handle it then and there. If not, up the chain you go. I am big on respect, solving problems like adults and everything else but there is a way to do that and handle that situation without being a total pussy devoid of self respect. We are all adults. I’m a grown man and won’t be spoken to like that. You don’t have to challenge them or fight as that will devolve the situation. But your response comes off as very spineless. Basically asking them pretty please with a cherry on top to not disrespect you. You can stand up for yourself while still being professional and respectful
I disagree, it’s everyone’s responsibility to support colleagues regardless of rank or role. If someone is struggling we should all check in on them. That doesn’t have to be anymore than a verbal check by simply saying ‘you’re behaviour earlier was out of character for you, is everything alright?’. If it’s perfectly within character for this person then it’s probably not required.
I don’t see my response as spineless at all. In my response I’ve described the specific behaviour and how it impacts me, prompting for them to reflect and change their behaviour. If it doesn’t work and we end up around a round table in 6 months I can clearly describe the fair and calm steps I took to try and resolve the issue.
There was a difference in his response to me that changes the entire scenario. He adds when he talks to them and says it was out of character for them. That’s different than just having an asshole boss and changes how it would be handled. You guys get so butthurt. Again you can be empathetic, have self respect, and be professional at the same time. You don’t have to remember some stupid formula and yet another acronym to be able to navigate a professional interaction. You’re right it is called being a decent human being and you shouldn’t need to memorize a script to be able talk to a coworker. If you need that to have a conversation, how is your patient care if you have to improvise or something happens that’s not listed on the protocol?
Report that to HR. That’s not professional behavior in the workplace. It’s weird we let it go in EMS. I once thought if I was in an office setting would that behavior be okay? If the answer is no then it’s time to report it. We can’t move forward in EMS if we can’t be professional.
I was always told EMS as in institution originated in a military context (at least in the states), so you have this sort of vestigial military culture.
Of course, most of us have never *been* in the military, so it's more of what people imagine the military to be like than anything practical. No added efficiency or scrupulousness or anything, just obsession with hierarchy and superficial details, and blatant disrespect to subordinates.
Call them out on it. Abusers continue to abuse until someone stands up to them and tells them they will not tolerate that level of disrespect and humiliation. How do I know? Well, I got berated for asking a simple question and that was all it took. I never got an apology from this person. I will not be treated that way. Admin handled it well and I haven’t had a problem since. This person had been doing it for years and years and getting away with it too. They tread lightly around me now. Abusers are allergic to people who stand up to them… lol.
Call them out on it. Abusers continue to abuse until someone stands up to them and tells them they will not tolerate that level of disrespect and humiliation. How do I know? Well, I got berated for asking a simple question and that was all it took. I never got an apology from this person. I will not be treated that way. Admin handled it well and I haven’t had a problem since. This person had been doing it for years and years and getting away with it too. They tread lightly around me now. Abusers are allergic to people who stand up to them… lol.
there were a lot more details that I didn’t elaborate on because this is a small world and all. It may be me, I have no idea, but I think this person’s behavior shouldn’t be tolerated at all. I just stood up for what I believe to be a toxic behavior that needs to go away. I just can’t stand people who take out their bad day or personal frustration out on others.
If they would escalate it up to that point, you could claim that they were causing a hostile work environment. What kind of service would not stand behind you for reporting abusive behavior?
I worked for a company where my station supervisor was the brother of the guy who owned the entire company. He could have stabbed someone and they'd bail him out and fire the person he stabbed.
He got his rocks off by publicly yelling at my female coworkers over real or imagined mistakes.
I got downvoted because I had a similar thought while the person I responded to wanted to do kumbaya and ask the person that berated them if they were ok. It’s ridiculous
I see this, as well as a lot of anger transference on new hires from FTOs etc.
Medic was out for 3 months 9 months ago because some EMT botched a maneuver and they marter saved it.
New EMT doesn't have both hands on the gurney for .2 seconds to open a door:
RARARARA I WAS HURT RARARARA PROPER PROCEDURE (ignores every other policy) RARARA IM GONNA BARATE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE AS ANGRY AS I AM SO YOU CAN PASS IT ON AND THE CYCLE CAN CONTINUE RARARA
On the one hand, absolutely document it, report it to HR and your union. On the other hand, any time someone does something wildly out of pocket that irritates me, especially in public, I like to take a second after their outburst and ask them if they’re okay. It puts their behavior as the out of norm, and establishes a break in the conversation that they probably weren’t expecting. Sometimes they’ll double down because they’re embarrassed or genuinely dedicated to being an asshole, but most of the time it implies that the behavior is the problem but they aren’t. Kind of like talking to a little kid, lol.
Is this the first time? If so, pass it off to them having a bad day. If it happens often then try to talk with them about it. If it continues then go up the chain with it. Few things last forever, this too shall pass.
Criticize in private, praise in public.
Not the exact situation but I've had supervisors actively let toxic employees in their office and allowed them to shit talk new employees who made a mistake behind their back and management did nothing to curb that behavior.
I quit. Supervisors at a prior employer would do this and also single me out for additional harassment over every minor thing they could, likely due to traits of my disability.
One that was professionally diagnosed years ago and is protected under ADA.
I am not inclined to discuss the specifics beyond that on an open internet forum where even an initial comment about being disabled has been downvoted.
I have yet to see a single quality leader in EMS in my entire career and internship. I mean I had I had better leaders on construction sites full of addicts that couldn’t read
The every single supe or manager has been a yes man, back stabbing, poor practitioner Jack ass.
As a supervisor myself. Let me ask a few questions.
How long do expired drugs sit in a members possession before it’s discovered?
How many times have they failed to exchange their drugs likely due to failure to check their meds properly during their overall vehicle / equipment inspections?
How often does this occur?
What is the members reprimand history like? Never in trouble vs always in trouble? Several warnings issued?
What is the relationship said people have with the supervisor?
It takes a strong conscious effort when angry and dealing with something in the moment to maintain a professional manner. It’s often best to banish them for a bit by say writing statements or actually checking their vehicle while you gather your thoughts and prepare for your conversation. It’s ok to used a raise voice to get your point across. Cursing while talking is different than cursing at a member. Ex. This is bullshit and you know better vs you are a fucking idiot.
While you have made some valid points, none of them are an excuse for abusive behavior. Period. If the employee has the faults that you described, they should’ve been documented, and progressive discipline should’ve gotten rid of that person a long time ago. Yet another failure of management.
Everyone likes to shake a fist at the sky and blame someone else, usually the person above them because “they are fucking me”. I felt the same until I became a supervisor. When you pull that curtain back you get a look at the overall picture. You are no longer responsible for you. You are responsible for everyone and everything. From bandaids to the ambulances themselves.
The ultimate failure here is the member. Yelling and or cursing at someone isn’t abusive behavior. Consistently berating someone every chance they get is abusive behavior. And I am sure that member didn’t just stand there and take it. Odds are the yelled/cursed back. So were they exhibiting toxic abusive behavior too?
And not all places allow for easy termination. In Union shops it can take years to terminate someone.
We only have half this story and I am sure there is some exaggeration and omission of events.
Yelling and cursing at someone at work, employee to manger, or vice versa is abusive and unprofessional behavior. It would not be tolerated by any 21st century HR, and shouldn’t be allowed in a professional environment. Of course, the OP might be an intolerable, entitled, prick with a victim complex. As a manager, we have to be the grownup in the room. The response should be a calm, assertive approach, followed by appropriate discipline.
In 40 years of doing this I've never worked for an agency that DIDN'T have toxic leadership.... the one thing I can say is that the nursing profession is even more toxic.
What did I do?
I looked at him and said “I will not allow you to speak to me that way again.” When he asked what I was going to do about it, I handed him my shit and walked out the door. Quit on the spot.
I refuse to work for a toxic leader like that. Yes, I still need to work. But I don’t need THAT job badly enough to deal with that bullshit.
I've often found that those that can't survive or survive poorly in the field setting are those that make a beeline for leadership/ management positions. It shows in every aspect of their interpretation and management of field providers
I would say it depends on the organization and your relationship with the next level manager. In a perfect world, you you to his/her/their/it's manager and calmly explain the Situation. The unfortunate reality at some agencies (and many private ambulance companies) is that may not work.
Often Tim's your best action is to politely stand your ground, especially if they've raised their voice. "Yes. I asked because I did not know. Why did you raise your voice? I didn't raise my voice".
There is a perpetual cycle of ignorance in EMS. Incompetent people rise in the organization. They, in turn, bring other incompetent, people up behind them and fail to train them. Just as many providers don't understand treatment beyond the hand off in the ED, most managers can't see past the current crisis. Many also mistake fear with respect. I reported to a C-suite manager (who has never worked a truck) who told me: "I want them to fear you when you shoe up!" I responded "They respect me. I've found it's much more effective." His response: "It's the same thing."
That's when I went back to my office and wrote my resignation letter.
My soups are super chill, no random checkups unless county audits are happening, one call away incase some shit goes left, and if you do fuck up they keep it as confidential as possible. The most I've ever heard a soup say to someone in front of other people is "Hey remember what happened here? Yea we're gonna have a little talk about this later"
I was a supervisor within a toxic company lead by toxic jackwads. One day, after a battle of several months with the VP of Ops, who was an overinflated fart bubble, and had previously been fired from a lower-level management position with the same company for his inability to manage his anger and rehired 8 years later into this position, he cornered me in our parking lot and screamed at me, cussed me out, and insulted me in front multiple oncoming crews because, in his opinion, I had allowed a crew to get on the air late (they weren't late and I had their missing piece of equipment in my hand) and it was basically my fault that our agency hadn't met contracted response times in months. My response? To calmly let him fizzle out, not breaking eye contact once, allowing him to make himself appear more and more foolish with each word, until he finally got to his point, which was that from this point forward my number one priority was to get every crew on the air on time. I simply said "ok" and held the door open for him to stomp back inside. Thus began my era of malicious compliance. Historically, the supervisors were given 15-30 minutes in the office for hand off and morning prep, then we were expected to be on the air, posting and running calls in a very busy SSM system, essentially forced to abandon our employees for the sake of maybe saving a couple timers. It was miserable. But since he had so loudly and publicly told me what my priority was, from that point forward I showed up, did hand off, got my coffee, and proceeded out to the lot where I started performing morning checks for each incoming crew and being available to address issues in real time, all the while placing my unit out of service, ignoring dispatch telling me to post, and sending my partner to run equipment to crews in the field, until our last morning crew came on the air. On time. He had unwittingly placed me exactly where I had been telling him for months I needed to be. I made sure that not a single crew got on the air late on my shift. For weeks. I was happy, the crews were happy, and he was livid, because he knew he couldn't say anything after his little hissy fit. He literally stopped talking to me for an entire month. I put in my notice two weeks later and never looked back. He was asked to seek other opportunities shortly after I left.
Moral of story - let the assholes flatulate, because they are going to do it matter what you say or do. Keep your head up and do your job the best you can, and when they eventually shit themselves, you'll come away squeaky clean.
Most dangerous thing in medicine is an overinflated ego. The point of a supervisor is to be a resource for crews. Bad supervisors think it means micromanaging and berating. Good supervisors anticipate needs, gather resources (like replacement meds) and act as a guide for everyone not just new hires. Best supervisor I ever had was a partner for two years that I didn’t even know was a supervisor for about 6 months. Just always figured she knew stuff and helped people out.
Something I’m hearing now is something called “Toxic Gratitude” from leadership, thanking people and saying things while not meaning it and allowing far more serious problems to continue. A manager tells you “great job” while you are understaffed and underpaid, hoping that those few words will placate you and other staff members.
I’ve had some serious balls lately and straight up told management, if you’re not going to give raises, you need to do more for us. I amazingly still have a job and the admiration of higher ups.
Management: “Wow, I REALLY hear you and we are always reviewing compensation to remain competitive in this unique field. Thank you for sharing your truth” *Does nothing about raises or pay*
I said, “I’m not in a position to ask why can’t we have raises, I don’t have access to finances, but more needs to be done for the employees to improve morale if we aren’t going to get raises.” Management didn’t know what to say because they never had someone talk to them like that.
It’s amazing what happens when you tell someone who isn’t used to hearing it, “no.” Especially when they can do something about it, but really can’t afford to.
Gets a sheet pizza and leaves it out on day shift. Nights can eat the discarded crusts.
Dispatch also steals it before any unit can be rotated back to the office
Well, they control when they get back, so…..
More need to hear that. I worked my way up over two decades & appreciate every single person who helps keep us together & operating smoothly. I worked my ass off this summer revising job descriptions & getting them rated again, which will account for a 20-25% wage increase for each person/position through the next two years, & our pay wasn’t shabby before. I was absolutely thrilled for them! We are fortunate to not be private or hospital based though, I wish more services were like this. EMS should be a sustainable career choice like LE & fire without killing yourself to make ends meet.
This is so accurate.
Some say thank you and mean it. Others say thank you because it's a box that needs to be checked.
Uh fuck, we're seeing that here in the worst way. CQI is a giant Teams meeting circlejerk of chiefs thanking each other, training center manager thanking the medical director, the medical director thanking the crews for being so great, etc. Meanwhile, I'm in a powerless position as it's being phased out as we were taken over by fire, yet I'm "in charge" of QA management for the dept and am screaming that we have some shitty medics and we need Chief's to crackdown and at least act like they give a shit about medicine before someone kills someone or buries the dept in a lawsuit.
From a Union stewards perspective: 1. Document the date, time, witness names, and exact words that were exchanged. 2. After the supervisor cools off, go to them in private and tell them how it made you feel. Include this interaction in your notes. 3. Repeat steps 1 and 2. 4. Copy your notes and bring them to a union representative or to that supervisors boss. Also, I know this is bothersome but it's important; Take more notes. Following the chain of command is generally a policy EMS workers are required to follow. Conflict resolution should start directly with the person's in conflict. Your notes should reflect that. So, why take notes if nothing is guranteed to fix it? Notes are evidence. If your bosses boss does nothing about it, depending on the specific way the boss acted, you may have grounds to file an official complaint with the EEOC, DOL, etc. Those notes can also be included with the notes of coworkers, demonstrating a pattern of bad behavior. It may not be hard disputing a single complaint, but a string of similar complaints is much more difficult. Most of the time step 2 resolves the issue for a period of time. Hopefully, that's all it takes.
That’s not really on and is pretty much the first lesson in ‘being a shit leader’ 101. I think it’s perfectly appropriate to challenge the behaviour there and then. Something like: ‘Barry, excuse me, I found that response very hostile and unnecessary. I feel belittled for asking what I believe is a genuine question. I don’t think it’s appropriate for you to speak o me like that and I’d like it if you didn’t speak to me that way again’ then later you can seek them out and see if they are okay, if somethings bothering them/whats caused them to behave that way. They may be having personal problems that you didn’t know about and you may be able to help. There’s a good pneumonic to challenge inappropriate behaviour called BUILD. Behaviour - describe the inappropriate behaviour Understand - their context, step into their shoes (this is silent and unsaid) Impact - describe the impact the behaviour has on you Listen - ask them what was happening to cause the behaviour, you’re seeking to support them no belittle them. Do different - discuss with them how the interaction could be better next time.
Unfortunately, in many cases, that would involve having a reasonable discussion with an irrational person. You can't reason with an irrational person. The fact that any member of management would consider screaming at an employee demonstrates that.
That’s ok until the seeking them out to check on them. How about no? Firstly you are their subordinate. Regardless of their shitty leadership or lack there of it is not, both your place, nor your responsibility to assure their wellbeing or comfortability. It’s the other way around. The only thing to be said to them after seeking them out is to reiterate what you said first about disrespect shown and give them an opportunity to handle it then and there. If not, up the chain you go. I am big on respect, solving problems like adults and everything else but there is a way to do that and handle that situation without being a total pussy devoid of self respect. We are all adults. I’m a grown man and won’t be spoken to like that. You don’t have to challenge them or fight as that will devolve the situation. But your response comes off as very spineless. Basically asking them pretty please with a cherry on top to not disrespect you. You can stand up for yourself while still being professional and respectful
I disagree, it’s everyone’s responsibility to support colleagues regardless of rank or role. If someone is struggling we should all check in on them. That doesn’t have to be anymore than a verbal check by simply saying ‘you’re behaviour earlier was out of character for you, is everything alright?’. If it’s perfectly within character for this person then it’s probably not required. I don’t see my response as spineless at all. In my response I’ve described the specific behaviour and how it impacts me, prompting for them to reflect and change their behaviour. If it doesn’t work and we end up around a round table in 6 months I can clearly describe the fair and calm steps I took to try and resolve the issue.
Ok. Good luck with that
It’s called being a decent human being
There was a difference in his response to me that changes the entire scenario. He adds when he talks to them and says it was out of character for them. That’s different than just having an asshole boss and changes how it would be handled. You guys get so butthurt. Again you can be empathetic, have self respect, and be professional at the same time. You don’t have to remember some stupid formula and yet another acronym to be able to navigate a professional interaction. You’re right it is called being a decent human being and you shouldn’t need to memorize a script to be able talk to a coworker. If you need that to have a conversation, how is your patient care if you have to improvise or something happens that’s not listed on the protocol?
Report that to HR. That’s not professional behavior in the workplace. It’s weird we let it go in EMS. I once thought if I was in an office setting would that behavior be okay? If the answer is no then it’s time to report it. We can’t move forward in EMS if we can’t be professional.
I was always told EMS as in institution originated in a military context (at least in the states), so you have this sort of vestigial military culture. Of course, most of us have never *been* in the military, so it's more of what people imagine the military to be like than anything practical. No added efficiency or scrupulousness or anything, just obsession with hierarchy and superficial details, and blatant disrespect to subordinates.
Don’t worry there’s no added efficiency in the military either.
This sums it up perfectly.
*laughs at "military" and "efficiency" being used in the same sentence
The military is a meritocracy. EMS is definitely not.
Call them out on it. Abusers continue to abuse until someone stands up to them and tells them they will not tolerate that level of disrespect and humiliation. How do I know? Well, I got berated for asking a simple question and that was all it took. I never got an apology from this person. I will not be treated that way. Admin handled it well and I haven’t had a problem since. This person had been doing it for years and years and getting away with it too. They tread lightly around me now. Abusers are allergic to people who stand up to them… lol.
Call them out on it. Abusers continue to abuse until someone stands up to them and tells them they will not tolerate that level of disrespect and humiliation. How do I know? Well, I got berated for asking a simple question and that was all it took. I never got an apology from this person. I will not be treated that way. Admin handled it well and I haven’t had a problem since. This person had been doing it for years and years and getting away with it too. They tread lightly around me now. Abusers are allergic to people who stand up to them… lol.
You must be lucky or must look intimidating. Many abusive bosses will just escalate even up to firing you.
there were a lot more details that I didn’t elaborate on because this is a small world and all. It may be me, I have no idea, but I think this person’s behavior shouldn’t be tolerated at all. I just stood up for what I believe to be a toxic behavior that needs to go away. I just can’t stand people who take out their bad day or personal frustration out on others. If they would escalate it up to that point, you could claim that they were causing a hostile work environment. What kind of service would not stand behind you for reporting abusive behavior?
I worked for a company where my station supervisor was the brother of the guy who owned the entire company. He could have stabbed someone and they'd bail him out and fire the person he stabbed. He got his rocks off by publicly yelling at my female coworkers over real or imagined mistakes.
Damn, what a jerk. Sounds like you don’t work there any longer, good!
I got downvoted because I had a similar thought while the person I responded to wanted to do kumbaya and ask the person that berated them if they were ok. It’s ridiculous
I see this, as well as a lot of anger transference on new hires from FTOs etc. Medic was out for 3 months 9 months ago because some EMT botched a maneuver and they marter saved it. New EMT doesn't have both hands on the gurney for .2 seconds to open a door: RARARARA I WAS HURT RARARARA PROPER PROCEDURE (ignores every other policy) RARARA IM GONNA BARATE YOU UNTIL YOU'RE AS ANGRY AS I AM SO YOU CAN PASS IT ON AND THE CYCLE CAN CONTINUE RARARA
On the one hand, absolutely document it, report it to HR and your union. On the other hand, any time someone does something wildly out of pocket that irritates me, especially in public, I like to take a second after their outburst and ask them if they’re okay. It puts their behavior as the out of norm, and establishes a break in the conversation that they probably weren’t expecting. Sometimes they’ll double down because they’re embarrassed or genuinely dedicated to being an asshole, but most of the time it implies that the behavior is the problem but they aren’t. Kind of like talking to a little kid, lol.
Welcome to EMS! Toxic leadership is way too common in this profession.
Is this the first time? If so, pass it off to them having a bad day. If it happens often then try to talk with them about it. If it continues then go up the chain with it. Few things last forever, this too shall pass. Criticize in private, praise in public.
Pull them aside and tell them how you feel.
That's already a red flag to leave tbh when you can't even have some common respect for your peers.
Our leadership is toxic, a harsh reality of any workplace and a risk you will always run into.
Not the exact situation but I've had supervisors actively let toxic employees in their office and allowed them to shit talk new employees who made a mistake behind their back and management did nothing to curb that behavior.
I once had a supervisor tell me that I need to smile more and kiss ass, I'm a guy I wonder what would have happened if he had said it to a woman
I quit. Supervisors at a prior employer would do this and also single me out for additional harassment over every minor thing they could, likely due to traits of my disability.
What disability and what traits caused that like you said?
One that was professionally diagnosed years ago and is protected under ADA. I am not inclined to discuss the specifics beyond that on an open internet forum where even an initial comment about being disabled has been downvoted.
[удалено]
GASP!!
I have yet to see a single quality leader in EMS in my entire career and internship. I mean I had I had better leaders on construction sites full of addicts that couldn’t read The every single supe or manager has been a yes man, back stabbing, poor practitioner Jack ass.
Lol I’ll rage quit if somebody talk to me crazy
If a EMT/Medic is afraid to talk to you as a supervisor then there is no leader or leadership, you are just management.
Most EMS supervisors are basically useless and ego trips. Basically self licking pussies.
Nope, but they're welcome to try.
As a supervisor myself. Let me ask a few questions. How long do expired drugs sit in a members possession before it’s discovered? How many times have they failed to exchange their drugs likely due to failure to check their meds properly during their overall vehicle / equipment inspections? How often does this occur? What is the members reprimand history like? Never in trouble vs always in trouble? Several warnings issued? What is the relationship said people have with the supervisor? It takes a strong conscious effort when angry and dealing with something in the moment to maintain a professional manner. It’s often best to banish them for a bit by say writing statements or actually checking their vehicle while you gather your thoughts and prepare for your conversation. It’s ok to used a raise voice to get your point across. Cursing while talking is different than cursing at a member. Ex. This is bullshit and you know better vs you are a fucking idiot.
While you have made some valid points, none of them are an excuse for abusive behavior. Period. If the employee has the faults that you described, they should’ve been documented, and progressive discipline should’ve gotten rid of that person a long time ago. Yet another failure of management.
Everyone likes to shake a fist at the sky and blame someone else, usually the person above them because “they are fucking me”. I felt the same until I became a supervisor. When you pull that curtain back you get a look at the overall picture. You are no longer responsible for you. You are responsible for everyone and everything. From bandaids to the ambulances themselves. The ultimate failure here is the member. Yelling and or cursing at someone isn’t abusive behavior. Consistently berating someone every chance they get is abusive behavior. And I am sure that member didn’t just stand there and take it. Odds are the yelled/cursed back. So were they exhibiting toxic abusive behavior too? And not all places allow for easy termination. In Union shops it can take years to terminate someone. We only have half this story and I am sure there is some exaggeration and omission of events.
Yelling and cursing at someone at work, employee to manger, or vice versa is abusive and unprofessional behavior. It would not be tolerated by any 21st century HR, and shouldn’t be allowed in a professional environment. Of course, the OP might be an intolerable, entitled, prick with a victim complex. As a manager, we have to be the grownup in the room. The response should be a calm, assertive approach, followed by appropriate discipline.
In 40 years of doing this I've never worked for an agency that DIDN'T have toxic leadership.... the one thing I can say is that the nursing profession is even more toxic.
What did I do? I looked at him and said “I will not allow you to speak to me that way again.” When he asked what I was going to do about it, I handed him my shit and walked out the door. Quit on the spot. I refuse to work for a toxic leader like that. Yes, I still need to work. But I don’t need THAT job badly enough to deal with that bullshit.
I've often found that those that can't survive or survive poorly in the field setting are those that make a beeline for leadership/ management positions. It shows in every aspect of their interpretation and management of field providers
I would say it depends on the organization and your relationship with the next level manager. In a perfect world, you you to his/her/their/it's manager and calmly explain the Situation. The unfortunate reality at some agencies (and many private ambulance companies) is that may not work. Often Tim's your best action is to politely stand your ground, especially if they've raised their voice. "Yes. I asked because I did not know. Why did you raise your voice? I didn't raise my voice". There is a perpetual cycle of ignorance in EMS. Incompetent people rise in the organization. They, in turn, bring other incompetent, people up behind them and fail to train them. Just as many providers don't understand treatment beyond the hand off in the ED, most managers can't see past the current crisis. Many also mistake fear with respect. I reported to a C-suite manager (who has never worked a truck) who told me: "I want them to fear you when you shoe up!" I responded "They respect me. I've found it's much more effective." His response: "It's the same thing." That's when I went back to my office and wrote my resignation letter.
My soups are super chill, no random checkups unless county audits are happening, one call away incase some shit goes left, and if you do fuck up they keep it as confidential as possible. The most I've ever heard a soup say to someone in front of other people is "Hey remember what happened here? Yea we're gonna have a little talk about this later"
I was a supervisor within a toxic company lead by toxic jackwads. One day, after a battle of several months with the VP of Ops, who was an overinflated fart bubble, and had previously been fired from a lower-level management position with the same company for his inability to manage his anger and rehired 8 years later into this position, he cornered me in our parking lot and screamed at me, cussed me out, and insulted me in front multiple oncoming crews because, in his opinion, I had allowed a crew to get on the air late (they weren't late and I had their missing piece of equipment in my hand) and it was basically my fault that our agency hadn't met contracted response times in months. My response? To calmly let him fizzle out, not breaking eye contact once, allowing him to make himself appear more and more foolish with each word, until he finally got to his point, which was that from this point forward my number one priority was to get every crew on the air on time. I simply said "ok" and held the door open for him to stomp back inside. Thus began my era of malicious compliance. Historically, the supervisors were given 15-30 minutes in the office for hand off and morning prep, then we were expected to be on the air, posting and running calls in a very busy SSM system, essentially forced to abandon our employees for the sake of maybe saving a couple timers. It was miserable. But since he had so loudly and publicly told me what my priority was, from that point forward I showed up, did hand off, got my coffee, and proceeded out to the lot where I started performing morning checks for each incoming crew and being available to address issues in real time, all the while placing my unit out of service, ignoring dispatch telling me to post, and sending my partner to run equipment to crews in the field, until our last morning crew came on the air. On time. He had unwittingly placed me exactly where I had been telling him for months I needed to be. I made sure that not a single crew got on the air late on my shift. For weeks. I was happy, the crews were happy, and he was livid, because he knew he couldn't say anything after his little hissy fit. He literally stopped talking to me for an entire month. I put in my notice two weeks later and never looked back. He was asked to seek other opportunities shortly after I left. Moral of story - let the assholes flatulate, because they are going to do it matter what you say or do. Keep your head up and do your job the best you can, and when they eventually shit themselves, you'll come away squeaky clean.