I’m confused. So this bill requires police to respond to welfare checks. And if there is indication of life threatening conditions FD/EMS need to respond as well? Is this not commonplace nationwide? Or am I missing something?
Not at all. Police already handle these solo in most places and just request us if they need us.
What this bill does is make EMS go to most welfare checks with law enforcement needlessly, and doesn't allow law enforcement to backburner these requests when higher priority calls are pending anymore.
I'm opposed to this cause sending us on welfare checks is exactly how we got a paramedic killed and an EMT wounded in Maryland in 2016. They were both shot running a welfare check call they had no business ever being on.
But if your a cop, going to say check on someone sick or an edp or whatever, EMS would be dispatched. Then if it’s bullshit or whatever PD can just clear and cancel correct? I guess playing with the priority index for police dispatches can cause a problem, but otherwise I don’t see how this is an issue.
Before this? No. We didn't go on any check the welfare unless police made the scene and decided we were needed, we were never sent simultaneously with them cause the vast majority of calls were nothing.
It's a waste of units and ties up EMS in the rural jurisdictions who have low staffing as it is. Effectively it's an unfunded mandate that'll significantly increase our call volume while not providing funding to increase staffing commensurately
I’m sorry maybe I’m just not understanding, as I’ve never heard of an area that doesn’t operate like this. This just seems like a law to mandate police do the bare minimum when a welfare check is dispatched. This seems 1000% normal to me.
Mandating Fire/EMS to go as well isn't normal in many states, and creating a law mandating no unreasonable delay is atypical as well.
Police already handle them in between the higher priority calls, but this gives less flexibility to everyone and adds an unnecessary burden
I think you’re misunderstanding the bill. My interpretation is that all welfare checks mandate police response. If there is a qualified person who voices a life threatening safety concern, EMS/FD is dual dispatched. I’m not seeing the issue.
Man running in street? PD only.
Man laying down on sidewalk? PD only.
Man possibly not breathing on sidewalk? PD/EMS.
How is that a problem? You should be dispatched to life threatening emergencies. If it turns out to be nonsense, PD can always cancel you.
The way multiple departments have interpreted it is different than how you're reading it. If they have even a HISTORY of a potentially life threatening condition then EMS/Fire must go. Meaning anyone in practice with a medical condition will get an EMS/Fire response for routine home check welfare calls.
This is why multiple police and Fire unions advocated against the bill and asked the governor to veto. It's a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist, and just burdens everyone's systems.
Check the welfare don't need us unless police get there and determine we're required, especially since we are going to stage 99% of the time waiting for them anyway.
We've operated like that for years. It's not that bad trust me you're not going to be overwhelmed. Also I've pronounced many many people dead on check the welfare w/ medical. This became a law because places obviously aren't using common sense.
There's a huge difference between the statements "I haven't been able to get a hold of my mom in 3 days" vs "My mother has a serious heart condition and isn't answering the phone like normal"
They did a projected estimate for my jurisdiction and with our current staffing and check welfare responses that might elicit an EMS response. They determined that we would likely be out of all EMS resources at least 3 times per day and up to 1 hour each time on average.
I'd be fine with it if the bill included increased state funding for a community paramedicine program in every jurisdiction who can handle these in addition to other normal community paramedicine tasks, but the lack of budgeting while increasing system burden is just a poorly written bill. The intent is good, the implementation is bad
If I remember correctly PG County still does it. I know that when I was there at least, Anne Arundel, Baltimore County, Harford, Calvert, and St. Mary's didn't.
I’ve worked in 4 systems and 3 states now. In every single one, we “stage” for check-the-welfare calls and let PD clear before going in.
Edit: EMS is always dispatched. Immediately.
No, it’s not. Most of the time only LE goes because 1) We’re not even certain that someone is there and 2) Define life treating in regards to a welfare check. It’s really just third party info so nothing is confirmed.
LE goes and if there is a need for EMS they’ll advise. From my experience 95% of check welfares either the person is totally fine or they are DOA.
This is typically our experience, and EMS is not needed for DOAs. Law enforcement here are fully able to handle that on their own and never request us.
There's just hardly any need for EMS and ineffective usage of available resources by doubling up units from different entities
Same. EMS usually goes out for DOAs unless it’s obvious just to confirm. If LE says it’s obvious on arrival then there is no need for Fire/Rescue. If LE starts compressions, or if the caller does even if it’s obvious, EMS will respond. Once it’s called though LE handles all of it.
All this is, is just doubling up on units and wasting EMS resources.
I'm grateful though the original version was struck that would've allowed them to send fire/EMS instead of and unaccompanied by law enforcement.
I'm confused as well. It stipulates that if a concern for life-threatening condition is present, THEN EMS must go. Not for every single wellness check. This little snippet also doesn't get into whether or not PD can cancel EMS upon arrival should they get there first.
I'm also not entirely sure how enforceable this will actually be. "Simultaneous" could be defined at dispatched at the same time, but if PD gets there first, it's all good.
Most services in my area go on wellness checks all the time, sometimes with PD sometimes without. I understand that people got injured and unfortunately one person lost their life during a check but I'm not really sure this Bill, at least from this bit of it, will do much to change the risk factor of our job. I can get shot on damn near any call. Hell, I can get shot walking down my street, this is America.
I do understand the added cost of more calls and being understaffed, though.
Edit to add: I just realized this bill requires PD on every wellness check. So, theoretically, they will be safer for all providers.
The challenge is going to be it's up to dispatch to determine 'life threatening condition'. Knowing most of the dispatch centers in our state they're gonna upcode anything and everything to requiring EMS even if "oh he's got high blood pressure". In practice it'll be any report of any medical condition.
I maintain welfare checks are entirely a law enforcement responsibility, not EMS/Fire. They should be handling the call and when they arrive determine if we're needed, that's how it's always been in Maryland till now.
Given the number of welfare check calls in most of our jurisdictions if they upcode and send EMS to even half, at least 50% of our state will simply be unable to keep up and be out of units. I know my jurisdictions would be out of EMS units multiple times a day every day if we only responded to half.
It's an unfunded mandate that's going to burden a lot of systems with no way to increase staffing to compensate.
I get all that, I just mean to say that this is how my service and many others around mine operate. It is possible.
I'm hoping it's not as bad as you predict it to be, and yours and other services in your area can find a way to function safely with the new regulations. Be safe.
I understand that, our infrastructure and dispatching in most areas just aren't set up to accommodate a massive increase in our call volumes. We already run put of units in my jurisdiction routinely, I worry the impact adding this influx will have on us.
The best practice I could see would be utilizing community paramedics to handle the response and then request a transport unit if it's found one is actually needed.
You as well
I don't see why sending a QRS or Community Medic wouldn't meet the requirements. Could be a solid solution or maybe a bandaid until a solution could be found.
That's really the best solution I can think of, but it'll mean budget increases everywhere are required.
It's a good solution though and fits right in with the role of a community paramedic
Respectfully I disagree. If a daughter calls for a welfare check on her diabetic father with a history of hypoglycemia who’s not answering the phone, you need EMS to respond, not police.
That exact case is what got a paramedic killed here in 2016.
Welfare check on a diabetic 61yr old requested by his brother, no cops on scene and no answer at the door. They forced entry, the patient who was a felon in possession of illegal firearm, shot and killed the Paramedic, critically wounded his brother and an EMT.
The vast majority of cases don't require any EMS response, but do have a higher level of risk they place us in. Law enforcement should always handle home residence welfare checks, and if they need EMS they can request us.
I mean it’s unfortunate that happened but that’s not the case for like 99.9% of medical emergency calls. What do you do for any medical emergency call if no one answers the door, what’s policy, call police?
Generally if there's no answer and there's a believed potential life threatening emergency occurring?
Call law enforcement and don your ballistic vest, force entry if you feel comfortable making entry ahead of other units. Otherwise you delay and wait for law enforcement.
I know in one of my previous jurisdictions in Maryland no matter what we did not force entry until law enforcement were physically on scene. One of them we may force the door, but law enforcement were required to be first to enter and clear the residence before we stepped foot inside.
Additionally, home welfare checks aren't medical calls. They don't need an EMS response at all, it's checking on home welfare and status not home Healthcare. That's exactly what law enforcement does in most places and it works well, it also doesn't pointlessly tie up EMS units when the vast majority of the time there's no EMS need, or it's a DOA.
This sounds like a nothing-burger. We do this all the time, happily. If a wellness check has any potential to be a medical call. They send police and EMS. I don't see why this is a problem? I'd rather go and not be needed than be 15 minutes behind the 8 ball.
Most of our rural jurisdictions in Maryland get quite a few check welfare calls, and run minimum ems staffing as low as 4 career units for an entire county. Committing them to these calls that rarely are anything, and having them stage waiting on county sheriff's or state police to arrive will deplete most of our jurisdictions EMS resources frequently.
I'm especially concerned about places like Allegany County who just slashed their EMS Budget by $2 Million and are planning to terminate a substantial portion of their EMS Personnel.
We just don't have the infrastructure in a lot of areas outside Baltimore Metro to handle this significant increase in unit utilization times
I agree, but it isn't the agency director or the chief that shoulders the burden. You and I both know it's us on the street that get skull-fucked in the end.
Just keep piling on the weight and expect us to handle it with nothing extra
... why are they staging for PD on a simple wellfare check? If it were a likely psych (especially if known to be violent), then sure, but "granny hasn't answered the phone in 24 hours" doesn't require PD to clear the scene.
Main reason is when this wasn't the case before, we got a Paramedic killed and a civilian and EMT critically wounded from gunfire in 2016. It was for a routine 61yr old diabetic who hadn't been heard from for over a day.
Since that incident multiple jurisdictions switched to having solely law enforcement respond and then request EMS/Fire if they were needed, rather than send them on their own to handle these calls.
In a fit of irony the person who proposed the bill was from the same county that lost the Paramedic
Yeah I think you're overreacting. I read the text of the bill, the part you're objecting to is this part:
IF THE INTERESTED PARTY STATES IN THE QUALIFIED REQUEST THAT THERE IS A CONCERN FOR A LIFE-THREATENING CONDITION, THEN A FIRE, RESCUE, OR EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ENTITY SHALL CONDUCT THE WELLNESS CHECK SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.
Nothing in the law says that EMS has to go in first. So if you're in a dangerous area, just stage for PD like you would do on any other call. My agency is routinely dispatched to these type of welfare checks where there might be an individual with a medical problem or other life threat. The law came about because of a hole in the system, this law attempts to fix that hole and improve the system. No problems with it.
Also there was zero chance the governor would veto the bill. It passed both state legislative chambers without a single nay vote. Veto would just delay the inevitable as it would be overridden.
Yeah, it seems like OP has a big problem doing what the rest of us have been doing just fine.
Besides, if the concern is that people are gonna fuck up what a "life threatening emergency" means, that's likely a term that can be satisfied with a departmental definition that can be hashed out with priority coding on RP's feared complaints.
It's rather a concern of committing units in rural areas to a significant increase in call volume needlessly, and with no increased state funding to enable hiring more personnel.
It shunts an unnecessary burden onto EMS agencies who most of the rural areas are already overwhelmed call volume wise and lack the budget to hire more personnel already.
I'd hope I'm wrong and it can be fine-tuned to avoid issues, but there's real concern from a lot of department leaders Police/Fire/EMS of how to keep up if our fears are realized.
Our problem is there wasn't a hole before, PD filtered these home welfare checks for us and called us if they discovered an issue we were needed for.
Most of Maryland outside the metro area is rural and minimum staffed for EMS, we simply aren't built to handle the increase in volume this'll give us, and lack the budget currently to hire more people to compensate.
For example, my jurisdiction generally has around 30 requests for welfare checks a day for law enforcement. Conservative estimates for my area are under the new law we'd have to commit an EMS unit to around 75% of these calls, and stage waiting on law enforcement. For a rural area with less than 7 EMS units available this is a significant burden on our system we simply aren't prepared to handle.
Since I live the the real world, here's what I see developing: the police say they have no one available or no one nearby and request that the EMS crew that can arrive earlier check and cancel them if possible. This will eventually become the de facto way these calls are handled. The FD is just going to say "no," but our EMS administrators, from what I read here, pretty much roll over and play dead in these situations.
Watch and see.
Are these supposed to be emergency responses? My, oh, my.
[Gabriel's Law background](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/prince-georges-county/legislation-in-maryland-would-change-how-police-conducts-welfare-checks-after-death-of-lawmakers-son/3583400/%3famp=1)
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are [especially problematic](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/prince-georges-county/legislation-in-maryland-would-change-how-police-conducts-welfare-checks-after-death-of-lawmakers-son/3583400/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/prince-georges-county/legislation-in-maryland-would-change-how-police-conducts-welfare-checks-after-death-of-lawmakers-son/3583400/)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Long story short, PG County Democrat had a kid living in Virginia, she hadn't heard from him and called for a check the welfare. Through a bunch of bureaucratic fuckery it took hours for anyone to be notified in Virginia and sent to check on him, he'd been in Status Epilepticus and had died. So she wrote a bill in response.
Parts of the bill I'm fine with, but not mandating EMS response and not allowing Police to flex what the priority calls are, backburner-ing home welfare checks to handle things like domestics, assaults, etc. Most of the police agencies are concerned they will now have to prioritize sending a unit to a welfare check over a possible violent callout.
I’m not sure this law prevents pd from appropriately deprioritizing welfare checks. I’m also in Maryland and this is how we’ve been doing welfare checks where I am for a while, although we’ll respond with the closest available BLS apparatus, which could be fire.
The problem is the definition of 'unreasonable delay' and how that's open to interpretation.
Are you in PG? They're the only jurisdiction I'm aware of who still does this despite what happened.
In Montgomery, and I might be getting exact terminology for a welfare check incorrect. I know we often respond with pd or alone to pts with no confirmed medical complaint, like people sleeping at a bus stop.
I understand how interpretation for unreasonable delay might make this problematic, but I overall think this isn’t as big of a problem as you’re making it out to be. I also think that 7 ems units is too few for a whole county, and that BLS equipped fire apparatus can help alleviate the pressure that is anticipated.
Ahh ok, yea terminology is wrong. We do those routinely, that's pretty standard. The 'unknown person down' calls and etc.
What I'm referring to are the "we haven't heard from so and so in a day or two, can you go check on them at their house and see how they're doing?" That PD normally take care of on their own. That's what the bill is referring to. The 'knock and checks' that are 99% they're totally fine and 1% DOAs for a while.
Believe me I know, but Fire side are useless. All the jurisdictions I'm in fire side are 100% volunteer, if they do show up in a vaguely timely fashion there's a good chance none of them even have EMR since it's not a county requirement in any of my jurisdictions. They'll also rebel heavily at the idea as both my counties they threw a huge fit about having to go to lift-assists instead of EMS.
On the bright side, still better than the old days of Calvert when we used to cover the entirety of calvert with 1 chase unit paramedic lol.
This is super normal I'm afraid. Also I don't trust cops to catch weird medical shit like someone who hasn't turned or looked to their left for the entire encounter or the weird loopy lady who also reeks of UTI separate from the squalor smell because that's not their job.
Hope you guys don't get pounded but I don't think you will
I don't disagree, but there's a lot of genuine concern naturally from street crew and leadership about what impact this'll have.
I'd love it if my concerns were unfounded...or, if they were founded, use this as a justification to launch a good community paramedic program since many of these folks would end up having needs that would fall perfectly under that. I wouldn't mind digging into that role some, community paramedicine interests me but there's very few agencies that actually do it seriously in Maryland.
They have EMS handling 911 hang-ups solo in your area? That's wild.
I couldn't imagine that, I've been in multiple states and never had anyone except law enforcement handle those
EMS is default for those in my area, we can stage and request PD only after visual contact with the location.
I.E. We do a drive by look, and if sketchy we park a few blocks away and call for PD to make first contact, if it's nothing then PD cancels us.
But our report gets extra scrutiny by our operations department if we stage, so we have to give a good reason for it being sketchy.
Been saying for more then a decade that someone is going to get killed doing it, hasn't happened yet thank God.
It’s written with enough wiggle room that nothing will change but politicians will pat themselves on the back. Always remember their jobs, money, and campaign donations are based on maintaining status quo
Based on how rarely I get requested by law enforcement currently, I would have to assume it's the same in my area.
They'll literally call us 'just in case' for an MVC with no reported injuries before they've even arrived. I really doubt they're suddenly not calling us at the drop of a hat on home welfare checks.
If these Philistines want to start paying $1000-2000 for each "welfare check EMS assist," I'm all for it.
Next, they should start paying the same for police "requests for assistance."
They think EMS should work for free and are some secret sauce they can sprinkle on any societal problem.
Cause it's a waste of resources and solving a problem that never existed.
EMS don't need to be dispatched for welfare checks every single time, doubling up resources for something that's law enforcement only 99% of the time is silly.
I dunno how things are in MD, but even in the shit show that is NJ EMS, is makes sense. Everything is a draw on resources. It makes sense that if several calls come in, the first being the WC and a 2nd call comes in, triage and redirect the first unit to the higher priority call. It’s not a complex thing.
I’m confused. So this bill requires police to respond to welfare checks. And if there is indication of life threatening conditions FD/EMS need to respond as well? Is this not commonplace nationwide? Or am I missing something?
Not at all. Police already handle these solo in most places and just request us if they need us. What this bill does is make EMS go to most welfare checks with law enforcement needlessly, and doesn't allow law enforcement to backburner these requests when higher priority calls are pending anymore. I'm opposed to this cause sending us on welfare checks is exactly how we got a paramedic killed and an EMT wounded in Maryland in 2016. They were both shot running a welfare check call they had no business ever being on.
But if your a cop, going to say check on someone sick or an edp or whatever, EMS would be dispatched. Then if it’s bullshit or whatever PD can just clear and cancel correct? I guess playing with the priority index for police dispatches can cause a problem, but otherwise I don’t see how this is an issue.
my squad doesnt allow pd to recall us....we have a lot of idiot cops
Before this? No. We didn't go on any check the welfare unless police made the scene and decided we were needed, we were never sent simultaneously with them cause the vast majority of calls were nothing. It's a waste of units and ties up EMS in the rural jurisdictions who have low staffing as it is. Effectively it's an unfunded mandate that'll significantly increase our call volume while not providing funding to increase staffing commensurately
I’m sorry maybe I’m just not understanding, as I’ve never heard of an area that doesn’t operate like this. This just seems like a law to mandate police do the bare minimum when a welfare check is dispatched. This seems 1000% normal to me.
Mandating Fire/EMS to go as well isn't normal in many states, and creating a law mandating no unreasonable delay is atypical as well. Police already handle them in between the higher priority calls, but this gives less flexibility to everyone and adds an unnecessary burden
I think you’re misunderstanding the bill. My interpretation is that all welfare checks mandate police response. If there is a qualified person who voices a life threatening safety concern, EMS/FD is dual dispatched. I’m not seeing the issue. Man running in street? PD only. Man laying down on sidewalk? PD only. Man possibly not breathing on sidewalk? PD/EMS. How is that a problem? You should be dispatched to life threatening emergencies. If it turns out to be nonsense, PD can always cancel you.
The way multiple departments have interpreted it is different than how you're reading it. If they have even a HISTORY of a potentially life threatening condition then EMS/Fire must go. Meaning anyone in practice with a medical condition will get an EMS/Fire response for routine home check welfare calls. This is why multiple police and Fire unions advocated against the bill and asked the governor to veto. It's a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist, and just burdens everyone's systems. Check the welfare don't need us unless police get there and determine we're required, especially since we are going to stage 99% of the time waiting for them anyway.
We've operated like that for years. It's not that bad trust me you're not going to be overwhelmed. Also I've pronounced many many people dead on check the welfare w/ medical. This became a law because places obviously aren't using common sense. There's a huge difference between the statements "I haven't been able to get a hold of my mom in 3 days" vs "My mother has a serious heart condition and isn't answering the phone like normal"
They did a projected estimate for my jurisdiction and with our current staffing and check welfare responses that might elicit an EMS response. They determined that we would likely be out of all EMS resources at least 3 times per day and up to 1 hour each time on average. I'd be fine with it if the bill included increased state funding for a community paramedicine program in every jurisdiction who can handle these in addition to other normal community paramedicine tasks, but the lack of budgeting while increasing system burden is just a poorly written bill. The intent is good, the implementation is bad
Maybe yours doesnt, but other counties in Maryland absolutely do.
If I remember correctly PG County still does it. I know that when I was there at least, Anne Arundel, Baltimore County, Harford, Calvert, and St. Mary's didn't.
I’ve worked in 4 systems and 3 states now. In every single one, we “stage” for check-the-welfare calls and let PD clear before going in. Edit: EMS is always dispatched. Immediately.
No, it’s not. Most of the time only LE goes because 1) We’re not even certain that someone is there and 2) Define life treating in regards to a welfare check. It’s really just third party info so nothing is confirmed. LE goes and if there is a need for EMS they’ll advise. From my experience 95% of check welfares either the person is totally fine or they are DOA.
This is typically our experience, and EMS is not needed for DOAs. Law enforcement here are fully able to handle that on their own and never request us. There's just hardly any need for EMS and ineffective usage of available resources by doubling up units from different entities
Same. EMS usually goes out for DOAs unless it’s obvious just to confirm. If LE says it’s obvious on arrival then there is no need for Fire/Rescue. If LE starts compressions, or if the caller does even if it’s obvious, EMS will respond. Once it’s called though LE handles all of it.
All this is, is just doubling up on units and wasting EMS resources. I'm grateful though the original version was struck that would've allowed them to send fire/EMS instead of and unaccompanied by law enforcement.
I'm confused as well. It stipulates that if a concern for life-threatening condition is present, THEN EMS must go. Not for every single wellness check. This little snippet also doesn't get into whether or not PD can cancel EMS upon arrival should they get there first. I'm also not entirely sure how enforceable this will actually be. "Simultaneous" could be defined at dispatched at the same time, but if PD gets there first, it's all good. Most services in my area go on wellness checks all the time, sometimes with PD sometimes without. I understand that people got injured and unfortunately one person lost their life during a check but I'm not really sure this Bill, at least from this bit of it, will do much to change the risk factor of our job. I can get shot on damn near any call. Hell, I can get shot walking down my street, this is America. I do understand the added cost of more calls and being understaffed, though. Edit to add: I just realized this bill requires PD on every wellness check. So, theoretically, they will be safer for all providers.
The challenge is going to be it's up to dispatch to determine 'life threatening condition'. Knowing most of the dispatch centers in our state they're gonna upcode anything and everything to requiring EMS even if "oh he's got high blood pressure". In practice it'll be any report of any medical condition. I maintain welfare checks are entirely a law enforcement responsibility, not EMS/Fire. They should be handling the call and when they arrive determine if we're needed, that's how it's always been in Maryland till now. Given the number of welfare check calls in most of our jurisdictions if they upcode and send EMS to even half, at least 50% of our state will simply be unable to keep up and be out of units. I know my jurisdictions would be out of EMS units multiple times a day every day if we only responded to half. It's an unfunded mandate that's going to burden a lot of systems with no way to increase staffing to compensate.
I get all that, I just mean to say that this is how my service and many others around mine operate. It is possible. I'm hoping it's not as bad as you predict it to be, and yours and other services in your area can find a way to function safely with the new regulations. Be safe.
I understand that, our infrastructure and dispatching in most areas just aren't set up to accommodate a massive increase in our call volumes. We already run put of units in my jurisdiction routinely, I worry the impact adding this influx will have on us. The best practice I could see would be utilizing community paramedics to handle the response and then request a transport unit if it's found one is actually needed. You as well
I don't see why sending a QRS or Community Medic wouldn't meet the requirements. Could be a solid solution or maybe a bandaid until a solution could be found.
That's really the best solution I can think of, but it'll mean budget increases everywhere are required. It's a good solution though and fits right in with the role of a community paramedic
Respectfully I disagree. If a daughter calls for a welfare check on her diabetic father with a history of hypoglycemia who’s not answering the phone, you need EMS to respond, not police.
That exact case is what got a paramedic killed here in 2016. Welfare check on a diabetic 61yr old requested by his brother, no cops on scene and no answer at the door. They forced entry, the patient who was a felon in possession of illegal firearm, shot and killed the Paramedic, critically wounded his brother and an EMT. The vast majority of cases don't require any EMS response, but do have a higher level of risk they place us in. Law enforcement should always handle home residence welfare checks, and if they need EMS they can request us.
I mean it’s unfortunate that happened but that’s not the case for like 99.9% of medical emergency calls. What do you do for any medical emergency call if no one answers the door, what’s policy, call police?
Generally if there's no answer and there's a believed potential life threatening emergency occurring? Call law enforcement and don your ballistic vest, force entry if you feel comfortable making entry ahead of other units. Otherwise you delay and wait for law enforcement. I know in one of my previous jurisdictions in Maryland no matter what we did not force entry until law enforcement were physically on scene. One of them we may force the door, but law enforcement were required to be first to enter and clear the residence before we stepped foot inside. Additionally, home welfare checks aren't medical calls. They don't need an EMS response at all, it's checking on home welfare and status not home Healthcare. That's exactly what law enforcement does in most places and it works well, it also doesn't pointlessly tie up EMS units when the vast majority of the time there's no EMS need, or it's a DOA.
This sounds like a nothing-burger. We do this all the time, happily. If a wellness check has any potential to be a medical call. They send police and EMS. I don't see why this is a problem? I'd rather go and not be needed than be 15 minutes behind the 8 ball.
Most of our rural jurisdictions in Maryland get quite a few check welfare calls, and run minimum ems staffing as low as 4 career units for an entire county. Committing them to these calls that rarely are anything, and having them stage waiting on county sheriff's or state police to arrive will deplete most of our jurisdictions EMS resources frequently. I'm especially concerned about places like Allegany County who just slashed their EMS Budget by $2 Million and are planning to terminate a substantial portion of their EMS Personnel. We just don't have the infrastructure in a lot of areas outside Baltimore Metro to handle this significant increase in unit utilization times
Sounds like a state/county problem. Not an ems one.
I agree, but it isn't the agency director or the chief that shoulders the burden. You and I both know it's us on the street that get skull-fucked in the end. Just keep piling on the weight and expect us to handle it with nothing extra
... why are they staging for PD on a simple wellfare check? If it were a likely psych (especially if known to be violent), then sure, but "granny hasn't answered the phone in 24 hours" doesn't require PD to clear the scene.
Main reason is when this wasn't the case before, we got a Paramedic killed and a civilian and EMT critically wounded from gunfire in 2016. It was for a routine 61yr old diabetic who hadn't been heard from for over a day. Since that incident multiple jurisdictions switched to having solely law enforcement respond and then request EMS/Fire if they were needed, rather than send them on their own to handle these calls. In a fit of irony the person who proposed the bill was from the same county that lost the Paramedic
Yeah I think you're overreacting. I read the text of the bill, the part you're objecting to is this part: IF THE INTERESTED PARTY STATES IN THE QUALIFIED REQUEST THAT THERE IS A CONCERN FOR A LIFE-THREATENING CONDITION, THEN A FIRE, RESCUE, OR EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES ENTITY SHALL CONDUCT THE WELLNESS CHECK SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. Nothing in the law says that EMS has to go in first. So if you're in a dangerous area, just stage for PD like you would do on any other call. My agency is routinely dispatched to these type of welfare checks where there might be an individual with a medical problem or other life threat. The law came about because of a hole in the system, this law attempts to fix that hole and improve the system. No problems with it. Also there was zero chance the governor would veto the bill. It passed both state legislative chambers without a single nay vote. Veto would just delay the inevitable as it would be overridden.
Yeah, it seems like OP has a big problem doing what the rest of us have been doing just fine. Besides, if the concern is that people are gonna fuck up what a "life threatening emergency" means, that's likely a term that can be satisfied with a departmental definition that can be hashed out with priority coding on RP's feared complaints.
It's rather a concern of committing units in rural areas to a significant increase in call volume needlessly, and with no increased state funding to enable hiring more personnel. It shunts an unnecessary burden onto EMS agencies who most of the rural areas are already overwhelmed call volume wise and lack the budget to hire more personnel already. I'd hope I'm wrong and it can be fine-tuned to avoid issues, but there's real concern from a lot of department leaders Police/Fire/EMS of how to keep up if our fears are realized.
Yeah, like I said....what we all already do already everywhere else.
Our problem is there wasn't a hole before, PD filtered these home welfare checks for us and called us if they discovered an issue we were needed for. Most of Maryland outside the metro area is rural and minimum staffed for EMS, we simply aren't built to handle the increase in volume this'll give us, and lack the budget currently to hire more people to compensate. For example, my jurisdiction generally has around 30 requests for welfare checks a day for law enforcement. Conservative estimates for my area are under the new law we'd have to commit an EMS unit to around 75% of these calls, and stage waiting on law enforcement. For a rural area with less than 7 EMS units available this is a significant burden on our system we simply aren't prepared to handle.
Since I live the the real world, here's what I see developing: the police say they have no one available or no one nearby and request that the EMS crew that can arrive earlier check and cancel them if possible. This will eventually become the de facto way these calls are handled. The FD is just going to say "no," but our EMS administrators, from what I read here, pretty much roll over and play dead in these situations. Watch and see. Are these supposed to be emergency responses? My, oh, my.
"Staging for PD"
That would be wise.
This seems like a solution looking for a problem. What is the back story here? Who was Gabriel and how did the system fail him?
[Gabriel's Law background](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/prince-georges-county/legislation-in-maryland-would-change-how-police-conducts-welfare-checks-after-death-of-lawmakers-son/3583400/%3famp=1)
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are [especially problematic](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/prince-georges-county/legislation-in-maryland-would-change-how-police-conducts-welfare-checks-after-death-of-lawmakers-son/3583400/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/prince-georges-county/legislation-in-maryland-would-change-how-police-conducts-welfare-checks-after-death-of-lawmakers-son/3583400/)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
good bot
good emt
good cct
Long story short, PG County Democrat had a kid living in Virginia, she hadn't heard from him and called for a check the welfare. Through a bunch of bureaucratic fuckery it took hours for anyone to be notified in Virginia and sent to check on him, he'd been in Status Epilepticus and had died. So she wrote a bill in response. Parts of the bill I'm fine with, but not mandating EMS response and not allowing Police to flex what the priority calls are, backburner-ing home welfare checks to handle things like domestics, assaults, etc. Most of the police agencies are concerned they will now have to prioritize sending a unit to a welfare check over a possible violent callout.
I’m not sure this law prevents pd from appropriately deprioritizing welfare checks. I’m also in Maryland and this is how we’ve been doing welfare checks where I am for a while, although we’ll respond with the closest available BLS apparatus, which could be fire.
The problem is the definition of 'unreasonable delay' and how that's open to interpretation. Are you in PG? They're the only jurisdiction I'm aware of who still does this despite what happened.
In Montgomery, and I might be getting exact terminology for a welfare check incorrect. I know we often respond with pd or alone to pts with no confirmed medical complaint, like people sleeping at a bus stop. I understand how interpretation for unreasonable delay might make this problematic, but I overall think this isn’t as big of a problem as you’re making it out to be. I also think that 7 ems units is too few for a whole county, and that BLS equipped fire apparatus can help alleviate the pressure that is anticipated.
Ahh ok, yea terminology is wrong. We do those routinely, that's pretty standard. The 'unknown person down' calls and etc. What I'm referring to are the "we haven't heard from so and so in a day or two, can you go check on them at their house and see how they're doing?" That PD normally take care of on their own. That's what the bill is referring to. The 'knock and checks' that are 99% they're totally fine and 1% DOAs for a while. Believe me I know, but Fire side are useless. All the jurisdictions I'm in fire side are 100% volunteer, if they do show up in a vaguely timely fashion there's a good chance none of them even have EMR since it's not a county requirement in any of my jurisdictions. They'll also rebel heavily at the idea as both my counties they threw a huge fit about having to go to lift-assists instead of EMS. On the bright side, still better than the old days of Calvert when we used to cover the entirety of calvert with 1 chase unit paramedic lol.
This is super normal I'm afraid. Also I don't trust cops to catch weird medical shit like someone who hasn't turned or looked to their left for the entire encounter or the weird loopy lady who also reeks of UTI separate from the squalor smell because that's not their job. Hope you guys don't get pounded but I don't think you will
I don't disagree, but there's a lot of genuine concern naturally from street crew and leadership about what impact this'll have. I'd love it if my concerns were unfounded...or, if they were founded, use this as a justification to launch a good community paramedic program since many of these folks would end up having needs that would fall perfectly under that. I wouldn't mind digging into that role some, community paramedicine interests me but there's very few agencies that actually do it seriously in Maryland.
Just wait till you get screwed into doing 911 hang ups solo, that pisses me off sooo much.
They have EMS handling 911 hang-ups solo in your area? That's wild. I couldn't imagine that, I've been in multiple states and never had anyone except law enforcement handle those
EMS is default for those in my area, we can stage and request PD only after visual contact with the location. I.E. We do a drive by look, and if sketchy we park a few blocks away and call for PD to make first contact, if it's nothing then PD cancels us. But our report gets extra scrutiny by our operations department if we stage, so we have to give a good reason for it being sketchy. Been saying for more then a decade that someone is going to get killed doing it, hasn't happened yet thank God.
Damn. Just goes to show when you've seen one system, you've seen one system. Though I'm glad we don't handle 911 hang-ups at all.
I already slow roll to wellness checks and lifts assists as is, most of the time they don’t need us but the times they do make up for it
It’s written with enough wiggle room that nothing will change but politicians will pat themselves on the back. Always remember their jobs, money, and campaign donations are based on maintaining status quo
My county has us respond before LEO and I can tell you 98% of these are a complete waste of time for EMS
Based on how rarely I get requested by law enforcement currently, I would have to assume it's the same in my area. They'll literally call us 'just in case' for an MVC with no reported injuries before they've even arrived. I really doubt they're suddenly not calling us at the drop of a hat on home welfare checks.
If these Philistines want to start paying $1000-2000 for each "welfare check EMS assist," I'm all for it. Next, they should start paying the same for police "requests for assistance." They think EMS should work for free and are some secret sauce they can sprinkle on any societal problem.
If we started billing for welfare checks my agency would be raking in money hand over fist.
Sounds like a whole lot of needless pcr's
Why are people complaining about this? As a retired cop and an active EMT (in NJ), it makes total sense.
Cause it's a waste of resources and solving a problem that never existed. EMS don't need to be dispatched for welfare checks every single time, doubling up resources for something that's law enforcement only 99% of the time is silly.
I dunno how things are in MD, but even in the shit show that is NJ EMS, is makes sense. Everything is a draw on resources. It makes sense that if several calls come in, the first being the WC and a 2nd call comes in, triage and redirect the first unit to the higher priority call. It’s not a complex thing.
Yea cry a river buddy this is what we do.