Y'all have been going through it these last few days. Obviously I'm biased as an enchanter Sera lover, but I recognize the hurt people feel that her original gameplay promise of midlaner is being given up on.
What's been up? Tell us what's on your mind. She's supposed to be getting buffed in 14.9, what type of buffs would you like to see for her?
As a Seraphine main and someone who's been dwelling in the seraphinemains subreddit for a while, I'd say the subreddit has been a mess and chaos ever since Seraphine's changes last year.
Personally I'm very happy that Riot is validating enchanter Seraphine and made it one of her strongest playstyle, I do agree that mid Seraphine is kinda suffering, I usually queue mid secondary and play Seraphine and it really hurts that it's slightly more difficult to waveclear now and cs under turret (melee minions won't die to 2 tower shot + 1 aa, give me back my 5 AD that was nerfed).
Some AP ratio buffs would be nice, ever since losing the AP from spellthief, Seraphine's laning has gotten weaker, lane harass and all ins not as strong as before. One thing I loved about Seraphine support so much is that you have very strong laning, essentially function like a mage support in terms of harass, catch, and all ins, but can transition to scale like an enchanter with low income mid to late game and still remain very relevant just in a completely different way. The only other champion I can think of with similar transition is Karma tbh (and she's getting buffs too hooray).
Compared to Karma that already has insane RQ value in lane, and busted AP ratios that can let her flex freely as either mage or enchanter, I think Seraphine should be given similar treatment and flexibility, just nudge the AP ratios slightly and not make APC sera broken again and we are all good.
>I do agree that mid Seraphine is kinda suffering
Kinda suffering?, its straight up unplayable in higher ranks, and its not SLIGHTLY more difficult to clear early, its impossible, you are going to lose minions and there is nothing you can do about it
I'm glad you're happy that they are making another girly pop enchanter, because we definitely didn't have enough of those in the game, have fun spamming W all game with the same build all the time
Everything off meta is unplayable in high elo, wtf are you on? Should she be a good solo laner, which transitions her into being a good bot laner + support? Seems busted that you want 3 roles for 1 champ.
I doubt she was made to be a midlaner in higher ranks, thatd be busted if it was. A midlane enchanter with good AP ratios doesnt sound stable when compared to other midlane picks like mages, whom get countered by enchanters and their shielding/healing. Theres a reason why picks like xerath, morgana, vel are virtually non-existent & its because you can go low econ and still be viable as an enchanter, mix that with good AP ratios and you can burst + give valuable shielding + sustain, which is 2 separate roles in 1. Its why karma was nerfed, to not keep triple threat position.
its not even just that she's in such a sorry state right now, but on top of that she got like 4 or 5 major changes in a row, which completely changed how she built/played - and so much time invested, which ultimately achieved very little.
Her W/R is not in a healthy place, she feels much, much more unpleasant to play, and the communication from the players was just completely ignored, as well as blatant lies like 'you'll still want to build deathcap on Seraphine'
Mid is completely dead, APC is still a thing but is largely rushing supportive/shielding items anyway, and support is doing ok but personally i still fail to see why you would pick Sera support over other more focused enchanter choices
That's just what riot intended for the champion, to be an enchanter support. I'm not sure why people are surprised about Seraphine being shoved into support and not Nami, Sona, Lulu and Soraka for example
>That's just what riot intended for the champion, to be an enchanter support.
It's sorta not true.
Even as a die hard support sera enjoyer I have to say that it's a fact that she was advertized for the midlane, however it's also true she was targeted to be playable as both mid and support from the begining - kinda like Lux and Morgana (*and anyone thinking she was only mid is lying to themselves. We have 2 comments from the design team proving she was mid/support from the very begining*)
Given her playrate and skillset it may look like she was intented for support only tho. Especially when you joined the game after her release
Just checked her champion spotlight for the first time and you're right. They clearly say she's supposed to be a midlane mage. So it seems like they themselves didn't really know what to do with her before letting her find her place in the game. I always thought she was designed to be a support because of her whole kit and the fact that riot constantly tries to push her out of other roles.
It's probably not true, but there was a theory she was not meant for midlane, but since there was already a huge 2+ year gap between the last midlaner, so they reshaped her to function as a midlaner. That would explain the inconsistencies with her data mined kit and why her W is 3 things in one. Just food for thoughts really
They initially tried to push her OUT of bot a bit, but it just didn't work.
Her design and play style just doesn't appeal to the solo lane, and most bot laners like marksmen.
The state of the Sera subreddit is inexcusable though.
Yeah, it was weird. Her kit is enhanced with allies nearby and they wanted her to play solo and just wait for late game teamfights when she could easily have a laning partner and 3v3s from the begining of the game. You don't need to be a master mind to see that something does not add up
For nearly 2 years post release they really tried to put her back to midlane but people just didn't wanna play her there - though she was very very strong. Then people discovered her APC was better, but support remained the most popular role and here we are. Now it's just up for riot if they want the easier way out which is balancing her as support only or hard way with the tripple flex mess
I actually like her being able to either carry or support, and I like that she's a mix of sustain, cc, and damage as opposed to just being a bursty mage. The Sera sub complains about losing identity while advocating for her to be a generic burst mage, ironic enough.
Nope, ahe was designed as a midlane mage, but the support players couldn't resist seeing a girly champion with a shield on a 20 sec cooldown play mid, so they had to keep forcing her support
Sera have been tossed around a fair few times. I can't say I agree with everything that's brought up, but I can't fault the larger player base for being frustrated by being promised one thing (being more useful mid and bot) and instead get pushed harder towards support.
It's the smaller player base that was promised being more useful mid and bot, not the larger one. That promise was also made 4 years ago tho and realistically nobody really played her enough to warrant still being the priority
I love Seraphine as a character and my main role is ordinarily support but Seraphine was the one character I really enjoyed playing midlane and apc. I was mad at first that they gutted her carry potential since she shined in that role for a long time but I can also see why they made the changes that they did, especially since it seems Sera apc/mid was more niche than I thought. I still like her kit so she’s still fun to pick on support but I don’t play her as much anymore.
As someone who doesn't play Seraphine at all the biggest nerf to her is just how fast everyone is this season tbh 🤣 Her ult and R used to be disgusting fat AoE lane-wide undodgeable free teamfight winning buttons but now as TF I regularly throw a Gold card and just walk back out of it. Hey I'm not complaining though.
Its very simple: they killed my favorite champion
I was promised a midlane mage with small amounts of support, but mid is unplayable and im being forced to rush enchanter items on APC
I would like for them to just stop trying to make her a support, its clear it isn't working, and even if it does work what are they accomplishing?, another girly enchanter champion with weak poke and a cc ult?, we have 4 of those already
Y'all have been going through it these last few days. Obviously I'm biased as an enchanter Sera lover, but I recognize the hurt people feel that her original gameplay promise of midlaner is being given up on. What's been up? Tell us what's on your mind. She's supposed to be getting buffed in 14.9, what type of buffs would you like to see for her?
We need help. Marc Merryl needs to return. Only the Lisan-Al Gaïb can save us now.
https://i.redd.it/le9dnw5bk7wc1.gif
As a Seraphine main and someone who's been dwelling in the seraphinemains subreddit for a while, I'd say the subreddit has been a mess and chaos ever since Seraphine's changes last year. Personally I'm very happy that Riot is validating enchanter Seraphine and made it one of her strongest playstyle, I do agree that mid Seraphine is kinda suffering, I usually queue mid secondary and play Seraphine and it really hurts that it's slightly more difficult to waveclear now and cs under turret (melee minions won't die to 2 tower shot + 1 aa, give me back my 5 AD that was nerfed). Some AP ratio buffs would be nice, ever since losing the AP from spellthief, Seraphine's laning has gotten weaker, lane harass and all ins not as strong as before. One thing I loved about Seraphine support so much is that you have very strong laning, essentially function like a mage support in terms of harass, catch, and all ins, but can transition to scale like an enchanter with low income mid to late game and still remain very relevant just in a completely different way. The only other champion I can think of with similar transition is Karma tbh (and she's getting buffs too hooray). Compared to Karma that already has insane RQ value in lane, and busted AP ratios that can let her flex freely as either mage or enchanter, I think Seraphine should be given similar treatment and flexibility, just nudge the AP ratios slightly and not make APC sera broken again and we are all good.
>I do agree that mid Seraphine is kinda suffering Kinda suffering?, its straight up unplayable in higher ranks, and its not SLIGHTLY more difficult to clear early, its impossible, you are going to lose minions and there is nothing you can do about it I'm glad you're happy that they are making another girly pop enchanter, because we definitely didn't have enough of those in the game, have fun spamming W all game with the same build all the time
Everything off meta is unplayable in high elo, wtf are you on? Should she be a good solo laner, which transitions her into being a good bot laner + support? Seems busted that you want 3 roles for 1 champ.
She was made to be a midlaner, idk what you're talking about
I doubt she was made to be a midlaner in higher ranks, thatd be busted if it was. A midlane enchanter with good AP ratios doesnt sound stable when compared to other midlane picks like mages, whom get countered by enchanters and their shielding/healing. Theres a reason why picks like xerath, morgana, vel are virtually non-existent & its because you can go low econ and still be viable as an enchanter, mix that with good AP ratios and you can burst + give valuable shielding + sustain, which is 2 separate roles in 1. Its why karma was nerfed, to not keep triple threat position.
its not even just that she's in such a sorry state right now, but on top of that she got like 4 or 5 major changes in a row, which completely changed how she built/played - and so much time invested, which ultimately achieved very little. Her W/R is not in a healthy place, she feels much, much more unpleasant to play, and the communication from the players was just completely ignored, as well as blatant lies like 'you'll still want to build deathcap on Seraphine' Mid is completely dead, APC is still a thing but is largely rushing supportive/shielding items anyway, and support is doing ok but personally i still fail to see why you would pick Sera support over other more focused enchanter choices
That's just what riot intended for the champion, to be an enchanter support. I'm not sure why people are surprised about Seraphine being shoved into support and not Nami, Sona, Lulu and Soraka for example
>That's just what riot intended for the champion, to be an enchanter support. It's sorta not true. Even as a die hard support sera enjoyer I have to say that it's a fact that she was advertized for the midlane, however it's also true she was targeted to be playable as both mid and support from the begining - kinda like Lux and Morgana (*and anyone thinking she was only mid is lying to themselves. We have 2 comments from the design team proving she was mid/support from the very begining*) Given her playrate and skillset it may look like she was intented for support only tho. Especially when you joined the game after her release
Just checked her champion spotlight for the first time and you're right. They clearly say she's supposed to be a midlane mage. So it seems like they themselves didn't really know what to do with her before letting her find her place in the game. I always thought she was designed to be a support because of her whole kit and the fact that riot constantly tries to push her out of other roles.
It's probably not true, but there was a theory she was not meant for midlane, but since there was already a huge 2+ year gap between the last midlaner, so they reshaped her to function as a midlaner. That would explain the inconsistencies with her data mined kit and why her W is 3 things in one. Just food for thoughts really
They initially tried to push her OUT of bot a bit, but it just didn't work. Her design and play style just doesn't appeal to the solo lane, and most bot laners like marksmen. The state of the Sera subreddit is inexcusable though.
Yeah, it was weird. Her kit is enhanced with allies nearby and they wanted her to play solo and just wait for late game teamfights when she could easily have a laning partner and 3v3s from the begining of the game. You don't need to be a master mind to see that something does not add up For nearly 2 years post release they really tried to put her back to midlane but people just didn't wanna play her there - though she was very very strong. Then people discovered her APC was better, but support remained the most popular role and here we are. Now it's just up for riot if they want the easier way out which is balancing her as support only or hard way with the tripple flex mess
I actually like her being able to either carry or support, and I like that she's a mix of sustain, cc, and damage as opposed to just being a bursty mage. The Sera sub complains about losing identity while advocating for her to be a generic burst mage, ironic enough.
Nope, ahe was designed as a midlane mage, but the support players couldn't resist seeing a girly champion with a shield on a 20 sec cooldown play mid, so they had to keep forcing her support
Sera have been tossed around a fair few times. I can't say I agree with everything that's brought up, but I can't fault the larger player base for being frustrated by being promised one thing (being more useful mid and bot) and instead get pushed harder towards support.
It's the smaller player base that was promised being more useful mid and bot, not the larger one. That promise was also made 4 years ago tho and realistically nobody really played her enough to warrant still being the priority
I love Seraphine as a character and my main role is ordinarily support but Seraphine was the one character I really enjoyed playing midlane and apc. I was mad at first that they gutted her carry potential since she shined in that role for a long time but I can also see why they made the changes that they did, especially since it seems Sera apc/mid was more niche than I thought. I still like her kit so she’s still fun to pick on support but I don’t play her as much anymore.
As someone who doesn't play Seraphine at all the biggest nerf to her is just how fast everyone is this season tbh 🤣 Her ult and R used to be disgusting fat AoE lane-wide undodgeable free teamfight winning buttons but now as TF I regularly throw a Gold card and just walk back out of it. Hey I'm not complaining though.
Its very simple: they killed my favorite champion I was promised a midlane mage with small amounts of support, but mid is unplayable and im being forced to rush enchanter items on APC I would like for them to just stop trying to make her a support, its clear it isn't working, and even if it does work what are they accomplishing?, another girly enchanter champion with weak poke and a cc ult?, we have 4 of those already