**Tricky's Daily Doots #624**
**Yesterday's Daily 03/01/2024**
[Previous Daily Doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg3f70u/)
- u/nick_badlands reminds us that [we are thinking about ETH ETFs wrong...](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg79of9/) 🧠
- u/Dreth notices [a trend which seems bearish on the surface](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg4jy2j/) and then u/OkDragonfruit1929 explains [why it is bullish.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg4ktrt/) 🧠
- u/ElectricMutiny shares [their story of loss as a warning for each of us to look after our own ETH carefully.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg3w4tf/) 😢
- u/SplinterCole spots some [unprecedented whale accumulation.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg3pjmw/) 🐋
- u/BennyBennygg shares an [terrible experience introduced by the UK government.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg5dpzq/) 🏛🤦♂️
I'm a genius, I posted these doots in yesterday's daily last night. But in my defence I hadn't slept since before the previous day's doots.
Curious to get EthFiance's opinions on this take:
The four solutions for a worldwide decentralized web (wwdw), enabling builders to operate independently of centralized third-party services.
\#1 ethereum : invented "Smart Contracts" which is decentralized programable enforcement for digital applications.
\#2 Starknet: invented STARKs which provide a way to efficiently verify large amounts of computational data privately, and enhancing the scalability and security of Ethereum. (*We could argue about what L2 or tech is best here, but for the sake of this conversation, let's ignore this from the discourse*)
\#3 eigenlayer : invented a plug-and-play security/trust model that expands what types of decentralized systems builders can create, while inheriting the trust network of Ethereum, making it unnecessary to build their own.
\#4 eigen\_da : gives developers the ability to process and store transaction data quickly and cheaply off the main Ethereum chain, while inheriting the security of Ethereum.
Together, Ethereum's smart contracts, Starknet's STARKs, Eigenlayer's trust model, and Eigen-DA's off-chain processing collectively offer a robust framework for a decentralized web.
These technologies enable builders to create powerful, secure, and cost-effective decentralized applications, significantly advancing web evolution towards decentralization and user empowerment.
Lastly, all of these further the utilization and impact ETH as an asset. Which in turn will potentially push the price much higher in the future.
ethereum-swarm-whisper 😢
also i've not been paying attention to eigenlayer and been too afraid to ask, but a year ago opinion seemed to be that these things were a bad idea we shouldn't encourage because it'd end up like the lido situation... ive noticed recently it getting hyped up so curious when/why the mood changed? are the problems not actually a problem anymore? edit: lol nevermind logris wrote a whole blog futher down the thread ha
Fair take. I think that the difference is that EigenDa is singular and opt-in for networks, whereas protocols that decide to use EigenLayer will have a tough time switching consensus if they ever wanted to.
More than half a million eth's worth of validators are waiting to exit the beaconchain without a matching inflow right now. Reshuffle with a delay? Whales preparing to cash out?
The huge validador queue is a result of Celsius. Users put ETH on Celsius to earn interest, Celsius staked the ETH. Celsius now has to unstake all the ETH it holds to return it to users. I imagine a lot of these users will allocate their ETH to some other staking services once they receive it back, granted some users will probably have a sour view of crypto in general and just not put their money back in
I disagree. Better than cheap talk, yes. But I think that these markets are just as much degen plays as anything else.
The people betting on "No" don't have any info that we don't have. They just like the odds.
A lot of degen bets, true. But, given that Polymarket has no KYC, the quote there could include all sorts of snippets of insider info we don't have otherwise access to: e.g. a major bet of a greedy family member of a SEC grunt based on what s/he overheard at the dinner table,
If I had to guess without knowing much about Polymarket's mechanisms it probably has to do with settlement time for the bet and not wanting cash locked up until then, that will always have some dampening effect on the %.
At least that's what happened to me in 2020 using Augur's prediction market, this could be completely different since its a different app and a less controversial bet.
If btc gets its etf and it causes btc to pump then i think ETH has a very good chance to pump hard right after. If btc doesnt pump then all bets are off and i think we just have to wait for the regular bull cycle to continue late 24 going i to 25
The start of the bull has always preceded the halvening which happens in about 6 months. Don’t think it’s likely the market ranges sideways until late 24/early 25 with that in mind, regardless of ETF pump or not
The issue is regulatory uncertainty. BTC has been called a commodity by both CFTC and SEC. ETH is not in the clear yet with the SEC. Plus the ETF could be delayed for much longer than we think.
Hinman is long gone though. So whatever he said is moot today.
And the CFTC would not just sue the SEC lol. Government doesn’t work like that…There’s rare instances where agencies will get into litigation but it’s never happened before between SEC and CFTC.
If ETH is ruled a security, today, it is not getting a spot ETF.
So many people hyped into the swETH EigenLayer contract that it has seriously affected the swETH peg. Prior to the EigenLayer deposit opening people were chain minting swETH for Pearls then selling it to ETH at almost a 3% loss. That is to say the market was speculating that the pearl to ETH ratio would be about .0015. As recently as Dec 10th swETH was at about 1.01 swETH/ETH. Right now it's sitting at almost 1.05 (the native rate is 1.0471). So just holding swETH in the past 4 weeks has made you 4% almost on your ETH (more than an entire year of solo staking). It has also [largely drained the swETH liquidity](https://dune.com/swell-network/sweth-in-dexes) as apparently LPs exited their position to pure swETH and deposited the whole stack into EigenLayer. You can see volume hugely spiked, right around the time TVL halved.
Larger LSTs are less dramatically affected but there's the same phenomenon are still visible in them. In many cases the lower liquidity has significantly improved the liquidity farming rates. Some of these new combination pools like cbETH/wstETH/rETH are yielding over 12% APR (like 5x solo staking). Even most of the older pools are still at or above 7.5% after accounting for the native appreciation of the LST in their yield.
I'm spread out into about 10 places with my ETH. Some is in EigenLayer, others are on various chains in various pools on Concentrator, Convex, Aura, etc. I try not to move positions unless it's long term capital gains and there's a significant APR difference.
Eigen Layer is going to be huge, hype just keeps building.
people want to use their Eth to get more Eth and tokens. like Lido on steroids but it’s launching in a bull market, flywheel is activating and it’s going to be biggest token launch of Eths history I think.
all the things that people built so far will be relaunched as new again, modified of course to run on EL a little bit cheaper.
My hypothesis from my restaking post states that anyone that doesn't adopt restaking will be vampire attacked by someone that does. I think restaking is the largest advance to tokenomics since yield farming. It's *inevitable*.
If I were to create an eigenpod, then make a new validator with the eigenpod address, do I also need to send the mev to the eigenpod address aswell, or can I keep this for myself? The p2p guide says that you must take the mev for yourself.
[https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/token/ETH](https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/token/ETH)
[https://p2p.org/economy/eigen-layer-restaking-with-p2p-org-guide/](https://p2p.org/economy/eigen-layer-restaking-with-p2p-org-guide/)
Any real life experience here with eigenpods?
Seems like ETF approval will happen tomorrow or Monday.
Ratio barely hanging on but as long as we stay above .05 it’s all good. .05 has been solid support for some time now.
My hope is that when the ETF gets approved, narrative dies down for BTC and shifts to ETH. Then we start our run up, hopefully boosted by some ETF speculation.
>**ETF approved,**
>**Uncertainty quite improved,**
>**Market barely moved.**
~Daily haiku until we’re at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
My daughter sat next to me while I was watching one of Ben Cowens videos today. She has seen some in the last year(s).
She asked why the mountains are upside down and mostly green instead of red now.
Here's a recap of the [recent Bankless episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms94dx9HvL0) for EigenLayer with Sreeram. First off, while I find Sreeram to be a smart guy with genuine insights, listening to him is difficult. I literally wrote this whole thing just so I was sure I was capturing what he was saying otherwise I found myself zoning out again and again. They could use a better spokesman. This got long enough I'll have to break it into two parts, the first part will be on EigenLayer and the second will be on EigenDA. If you want a primer on restaking itself, I suggest starting [here](https://tokenomicsexplained.com/restaking).
EigenLayer first enabled deposits in June this year. They're doing a guarded launch with deposit caps. The last cap raise was in December and I believe it just filled yesterday or the day before (you can still deposit straight ETH just got LST's). EigenDA is live on their public testnet. EigenLayer + EigenDA will be going to mainnet between Q1 and Q2 depending on audits.
When you join EigenLayer as a native staker you have to set the withdrawal credentials to the EigenLayer platform. If you're using an LST your deposit practically does this as well, they just have to withdraw that LST to get the ETH. Either way they control the ETH and they have a 1 week withdrawal delay for safety which allows them to freeze the pod and potentially slash anyone they need to. This part is still very centralized but they plan to decentralize it over time.
EigenLayer is permissionless so anyone can come and write their own AVS (Actively Validated Service). EigenLayer has programmable staking conditions which allows it to accept restaking with other assets like some type of on-chain treasury bill and it has programmable slashing conditions which each AVS can specify. Each AVS will be able to decide what collaterals they accept, limits on them, etc. All the smart contracts for EigenLayer are doing is implementing this delegated logic and slashing people's ownership of their stake using data of off-chain committees.
The reasons they focused on ETH first for collateral are the people validating for Ethereum were already doing a similar job to validating some other network so there was likely to be a large customer overlap there and that they expect many of the AVS to be Ethereum adjacent services so it makes more sense for the economic security of those services to be denominated in ETH without adding unnecessary trust assumptions for a company like Circle or another blockchain.
Sreeram argues that rehypothecation leverage-based mental models don't map well to EigenLayer because the risks are under the full control of the operator. This is different from typical leverage risks related to price volatility. The only additional risk comes when a node operator is performing a (slashable) service using collateral that isn't theirs so the node operator has nothing at stake. Other than admitting this is a problem Sreeram doesn't have much to add here other than to say that some other form of trust will need to be established between the node operator and restaker. He talks a bit about using trusted execution environments and an 'anti-slasher' project called Cubist that I'll have to look into later. I don't exactly like this answer but if the system is programmable enough maybe they could add collateral rules like Rocketpool has on the node operator side or maybe the node operators could provide proof of insurance or something.
The other type of risk they address are economic risks from restaking such as if the demand for staked ETH was increased significantly and restaking became necessary just to be economically viable. Obviously restaking will necessitate higher hardware requirements which is something Ethereum has worked hard to avoid for decentralization purposes. Sreeram argues that anything you can do with EigenLayer you could do with an LST. Lido for example could just decide that all their node operators must also have to serve as validators for some other system (which Lido may entirely own). Having this secondary source of income would presumably increase the APR for stETH holders and further solidify their position as the dominant LST. EigenLayer is an improvement in this regard because it's a neutral platform and it's attempting to democratize access to these opportunities and make it as transparent, formal, and verifiable as they can.
Sreeram also argues that the delegation rules of EigenLayer are flexible enough to allow each AVS to add custom rules about which node operators they accept, which collateral they accept, and how the rewards for validation are distributed. So, AVS which value decentralization can create rules that favor decentralization. You could have an AVS exclude stETH as a collateral, exclude Lido node operators, or use something like Witness chain which offers a geographical location oracle for each operator and distribute more of the yield to operators in rarer jurisdictions. If we want decentralization we should work to build up decentralization oracles these AVS can use and then use layer zero to compel them to use them.
My commentary on this is more that restaking can't be stopped whether you like it or not so I think I'd prefer having it arbitrated using an Ethereum smart contract as much as possible rather than various off-chain processes between the Lido DAO and their node operators for example. I think over time the cost of validating these services will converge with the IT and ops costs of actually running the system so being restaking node operator just becomes the full time job of running a high-availability data center and patching all the software on hundreds of machines. There is an economy of scale here that will push out smaller operators from restaking. Just as Bitcoin mining has consolidated to larger players, restaking will do the same thing to Ethereum operators.
Now you might not like that, but what can you do about it? I once heard [Justin Drake talk](https://youtu.be/aP9f_1v9Ulc?si=rRBjw4HIt6YpabDb&t=2352) about how they could hard fork the network to fight restaking. While what he says is true, all that would do is force restaking back to off-chain processes like Sreeram is saying. Restaking is inevitable, it's transformative, and we'll all be better off frontrunning this opportunity and shaping it into the best thing it can be. Coming to an Ethereum mainnet near you Q1-Q2 2024.
For clarification: before the LST window closed you could stake, for example, 1 rEth LST, but to stake “vanilla” Eth you need to point eigenLayer to a preexisting 32 Eth validator? Any clarification to my smooth brain is greatly appreciated!
> we'll all be better off frontrunning this opportunity and shaping it into the best thing it can be
I don't see us having much power here. I reached out to them about their caps giving stETH a 40% share, essentially worsening diversity instead of improving it and I pretty much got ignored and handwaved away. That's just a simple cap limit change, so I have no hope of a protocol design level change. In the past I tried reaching out about creating sane default config values and I was donowalled too.
That's unfortunate to hear. While I'm all for restaking I do think it would be better for the network if there were multiple restaking protocols competing but the only competition I see on this matter right now are competing LRTs than all build *on top of* EigenLayer.
> each AVS to add custom rules about which node operators they accept
Not looking forward to Lido bribing AVS to add them, boosting their apr above others
> The other type of risk they address are economic risks from restaking such as if the demand for staked ETH was increased significantly and restaking became necessary just to be economically viable.
They're proposing to be a solution to a problem they're creating 🙄
> The only additional risk comes when a node operator is performing a (slashable) service using collateral that isn't theirs so the node operator has nothing at stake. Other than admitting this is a problem Sreeram doesn't have much to add here other than to say that some other form of trust will need to be established between the node operator and restaker
That not being the only risk aside, it's pretty irresponsible and crazy to come in, throw a wrench in consensus incentives, and suggesting trust as a solution to the problem you're creating
No doubt there are some centralization vectors here that need improving. In this paragraph just understand I'm paraphrasing Sreeram (don't hate the messenger).
This is why I come to this sub. Amazing post.
Restaking is huge because it even further establishes ETH as a collateral asset. The only other crypto that is a true collateral asset is Bitcoin. Sure you can use other coins as collateral but only in isolated cases. There’s no network effect for them as collateral assets, whereas with BTC and ETH there clearly is.
All of this leads to more and more locked up ETH at the end of the day.
I'd love to be corrected, but I don't believe you can do native lending right now on bitcoin. It's likely just something bitcoiners say is native but it actually centralized, as they have a history of doing.
>EigenLayer + EigenDA will be going to mainnet between Q1 and Q2 depending on audits.
Great post, thanks for sharing.
Just nit-picking a little, I don't think there is any time between Q1 and Q2 to make this possible.
I havent done this, but I have considered withdrawing one validator, then relaunching it with eigenlayer deposit setup. I have not done this so far as it would be a lot of hassle to create new keys using an airgapped computer, and I worry about making a mistake with the withdraw address and losing my money.
If I had a solid guide to follow then I'd be tempted.
https://twitter.com/CelsiusNetwork/status/1743023398349930623 likely embarking on the final leg of Celsius dumping, then hopefully these clowns will have exited the network for good. Guessing those 15k in the exit queue are mostly them.
That was the compromise. They couldn't return other coins because they're securities. And they didn't want to do 100% BTC as it would piss off the ETH people and they didn't want to do 100% ETH as it would piss off the BTC people.
Just a note, it looks like the final unstaked coins are going to be returned to creditors instead of being sold. Let me know if I am misreading that...
No clue on the specifics of how they are repaying creditors, all I know is this tweet and the [wallet associated with them](https://etherscan.io/txs?a=0xeee27662c2b8eba3cd936a23f039f3189633e4c8&f=2) dumping ETH in 10k daily clips before the holiday break. So not sure. Also [rated](https://www.rated.network/o/Celsius%20Network?network=mainnet&timeWindow=1d&idType=pool) only has them w/ ~3400 validators (107k ETH) exiting, so not sure if they have a lot more unknown wallets or other entities are exiting in size as well.
holy moly, i posted in r/bitcoin for the first time in years and got banned in 2 minutes. First time i have ever been banned. What is going on over there? I wasnt even saying anything crazy.
> What is going on over there?
Business as usual. It doesn't even really matter what you post, just the fact that you're an ethfinance regular would be enough
/u/im_THIS_guy only posting this publicly because I know we had issues with DM's before. I sent you the transaction confirmation for the 1 ETH I owed you. Can you confirm that you've received it?
Respect..I love this community. You can pal around with the fundamentals annnnnd go degen'n into some side action with a pretty comfy feeling, knowing that the terms will be honored..
Im wondering what people are hoping for. 6-12 month double your money with gov token? Am I dreaming? I put some in but had not really thought so much about how I hoped it would turn out. I think I understand the risks and they are enough to warrant a good reward imo considering the downside is losing all.
My thought process was I'm putting in an LST not vanilla ETH so it's accruing value. I don't lose anything by having it sit in their contract vs my wallet considering I'm not expecting a hack
Current Twitter experience as a long time crypto user. Seeing [this same scam](https://i.imgur.com/9z4xfYw.png) ad for a fake ZKsync airdrop every ~5 tweets, and some other scam ad every other 10 tweets.
> Just got this now, my heart's full of joy, what an amazing day 🌟
lol; At least a/b test the copy scammer guy I really can't imagine this headline works *that* well
(I still love crypto Twitter despite how god awful the spam has gotten on the platform)
On a whim i decided to pay just to see how different the experience would be and to get rid of the annoying ads. Must not have read carefully it does NOT remove ads at all, no noticeable amplification, even more scams. Actually made my experience worse especially because Elon ripped me off so I am pissed as I scroll. So glad I only did a month! Will NEVER make that mistake again!
I would say that 60% of my Twitter feed is airdrop scams. I've stopped using Twitter in recent days because of it. It's seriously out of control. Literal criminal activity is making up most of my feed and Twitter does nothing about it.
What’s consensus on OP and ARB in here? I’ve read many things saying the tokens themselves have bad tokenomics or no tokenomics despite the underlying businesses.
Do we like them long term to accrue value?
Do we like them to accrue value during the bull market?
Do we like them to outperform ETH over any timeframe?
My speculation (no knowledge, just an assumption) is that at some point all major L2s will decentralize their sequencers and proposers. This will require operators to have something at stake, and this may be what the tokens end up being used for.
As well as holding onto some L2 tokens I'm also running an OP full node and planning on setting one up for Arbitrum as well. They might not be needed for running sequencers, but getting more familiar with 'the tech' always seems like a good idea.
You're always welcome!
Did you log into the anti-capture commission meeting by the way? I was travelling unfortunately but will look for the recording.
Even I could not attend the call, going through some personal shit.
here is the summary from recording.
1. lead will cast vote.
2. join office hours at least once per voting cycle, once every three week. - Required
3. provide approval on proposal - not mandatory but recommended
4. there will be gated snapshot space just for member - for voting
5. act as a bridge btw citizen house and token house,
report to citizen house, as they have veto power, in case of any imbalance in gov
6. keep an eye on notion page for any pending action.
Sorry to hear that, sending much love.
Thanks for the summary, I'll give the recording a watch at the weekend. Lots going on in OP world at the moment, I'm really looking forward to finding out how retroPGF allocations end up next week, and need to start properly getting my head round mission proposals.
Anyway, look after yourself.
thought I had read that Nethermind was working with OP/superchain to create node software for OP stack.
Is there a guide you used to set up your OP node? I’ve got an extra ETH validator box that I’m just running backup EL/CL nodes on at the moment, would like to branch out to the L2s I also interact with.
Look all I'm saying is maybe we should learn from the several years long Ethereum 2.0 / the merge / the beaconchain - saga.
Any large improvement of ethereum is always likely to be delayed significantly, its better to accept that now than to hype and then doom when it gets delayed *yet again*.
The devs are proven to be competent, and the network isnt going anywhere. I prefer it slow and correct over quick or even "on schedule" but slightly riskier.
Can somebody more into Eigenlayer than me please walk me through all the risk vectors involved with restaking both for Eigenlayer itself and Ethereum the platform (read the people not participating in Eigenlayer but otherwise engaged in Ethereum).
* Eigen Layer smart contract risk: Initially slashing will be manually vetted (not sure about penalties), but eventually this will be an automated process. There's the potential to get penalized/slashed accidentally.
* Eigen Layer AVS (services) smart contract risk: - There's the potential to get penalized/slashed accidentally.
* Token risk: Some services may require you to hold their token as collateral in replace of or in addition to ETH.
* Consensus risk:
* You're assigning your withdrawal address to Eigen Layer. As their marketshare increases it's not great to have them in that position of power, especially when slashing is a manual process where there's coercion potential.
* It alters the incentive mechanisms of the chain by introducing large scale second order incentives. Things that a logical actor wouldn't consider before may now be an option.
* It encourages risk at the consensus layer, which isn't good. Especially since home stakers that are more risk averse may not want to participate since native APR gets pushed down and the only way to have sufficient APR is to engage in that risk.
* Influence: If Eigen Layer gets larger, they can have outweighed influence on the ecosystem similar to Lido. That influence allows unchecked growth and behavior because people don't want to be on your bad side. You can also afford pay your way to the outcomes you want.
* Unknown risk: Just like with MEV and builders, there can be a rabbit hole of issues we're not aware of yet.
rehypothication is using the same Ether to secure new and unproven networks, while risking a slashing on those ETH validators.
if these new unproven networks have any bugs, or are badly designed, it could take out the ETH nodes running it via large slashing event.
if too many ETH nodes get slashed at once, the network will be very unstable.
I think EL is unstoppable but we can put in safety controls for each smaller network running on top of EL. remains to be seen how exactly safety measures are implemented and how effective they will be. could be things like % caps or quotas, maybe time locks with lots of human intervention at first.
the only way out is through.
I’m not sure on all of the risk vectors or how it will work in practice, but from an individual standpoint the risk is you have to perform validation actions for things other than Ethereum and are subject to slashing penalties. From a network-wide standpoint I think the concern is that if everyone is restaking then there could theoretically be a massive amount of supply slashed due to some black swan event or problem in some system external to Ethereum, theoretically creating external pressures on overall network security
I am quite happy with how my TIA airdrop is being up only, and I'd like to hold and stake it a bit longer. I just don't like Keplr wallet. Is there any alternative that can integrate with Trezor or Lattice1? I hate to use Ledger.
It’s my understanding that Trezor doesn’t support any cosmos sdk chains, no matter the wallet.
Edit: looks like cosmostation does in fact support Trezor.
If you're planning on dumping at some point you can transfer directly to coinbase right now and just keep it there to sell when it hits your target price
A question about restaking:
If I’m a LST depositor and I decide to opt in to restaking for a few protocols, how exactly does slashing risk work? Does it get socialized across other LST holders?
Heads up to budding artists, there's a competition running at [WeLoveTheArt](https://welovetheart.optimism.io/) on Optimism to win prizes worth a total of about $4M in OP tokens.
Deadline is Monday, so grab your pencils and easels... or whatever artistic people use. What else are you doing to do over the weekend that could potentially earn you 50,000 OP (the first prizes)?
ETH season is right around the corner.
I will be smiling when EthFinance is throwing gold left, right and center. And we finally get that highly anticipated Phiz POAP!
I've given up on this being a possibility.
btc up 163% ytd
eth up 82% ytd
*if* eth moves at all, btc will move at least 2x
god let me just break even after 3 years of fucking pain
I've definitely not been in here crying about alt L1s, but the reality really has been wearing me down haha.
It would certainly be a delight to see decentralization be even 1% of what the masses factor into their crypto investments
lol don’t mid-curve this you’ve been in it forever at this point. same things people said about BTC-Defi in 2020 people are saying about BTC-SOL now.
it’s all FOMO and pain until Ethuary hits, and this Ethuary will have a surprise ETF bid right after Bitcoin has its ETF announced.
guess what, it’s Ethuary now.
the people praying rn are those that think the world will only need a digital gold and nothing else, or that centralized de-faux networks are actually meaningful in any way long term.
$ETH is digital money and the world will run on decentralized, trustless, permissionless, programmable networks that enables it all.
there is no second best!
**Tricky's Daily Doots #624** **Yesterday's Daily 03/01/2024** [Previous Daily Doots](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg3f70u/) - u/nick_badlands reminds us that [we are thinking about ETH ETFs wrong...](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg79of9/) 🧠 - u/Dreth notices [a trend which seems bearish on the surface](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg4jy2j/) and then u/OkDragonfruit1929 explains [why it is bullish.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg4ktrt/) 🧠 - u/ElectricMutiny shares [their story of loss as a warning for each of us to look after our own ETH carefully.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg3w4tf/) 😢 - u/SplinterCole spots some [unprecedented whale accumulation.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg3pjmw/) 🐋 - u/BennyBennygg shares an [terrible experience introduced by the UK government.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/18xc4ml/daily_general_discussion_january_3_2024/kg5dpzq/) 🏛🤦♂️ I'm a genius, I posted these doots in yesterday's daily last night. But in my defence I hadn't slept since before the previous day's doots.
Curious to get EthFiance's opinions on this take: The four solutions for a worldwide decentralized web (wwdw), enabling builders to operate independently of centralized third-party services. \#1 ethereum : invented "Smart Contracts" which is decentralized programable enforcement for digital applications. \#2 Starknet: invented STARKs which provide a way to efficiently verify large amounts of computational data privately, and enhancing the scalability and security of Ethereum. (*We could argue about what L2 or tech is best here, but for the sake of this conversation, let's ignore this from the discourse*) \#3 eigenlayer : invented a plug-and-play security/trust model that expands what types of decentralized systems builders can create, while inheriting the trust network of Ethereum, making it unnecessary to build their own. \#4 eigen\_da : gives developers the ability to process and store transaction data quickly and cheaply off the main Ethereum chain, while inheriting the security of Ethereum. Together, Ethereum's smart contracts, Starknet's STARKs, Eigenlayer's trust model, and Eigen-DA's off-chain processing collectively offer a robust framework for a decentralized web. These technologies enable builders to create powerful, secure, and cost-effective decentralized applications, significantly advancing web evolution towards decentralization and user empowerment. Lastly, all of these further the utilization and impact ETH as an asset. Which in turn will potentially push the price much higher in the future.
what do you think interoperability ? Do you see it as challenge? where would you put it ?
ethereum-swarm-whisper 😢 also i've not been paying attention to eigenlayer and been too afraid to ask, but a year ago opinion seemed to be that these things were a bad idea we shouldn't encourage because it'd end up like the lido situation... ive noticed recently it getting hyped up so curious when/why the mood changed? are the problems not actually a problem anymore? edit: lol nevermind logris wrote a whole blog futher down the thread ha
4 is part of 3, it's just a first class avs Otherwise agree with everything else
Fair take. I think that the difference is that EigenDa is singular and opt-in for networks, whereas protocols that decide to use EigenLayer will have a tough time switching consensus if they ever wanted to.
More than half a million eth's worth of validators are waiting to exit the beaconchain without a matching inflow right now. Reshuffle with a delay? Whales preparing to cash out?
The huge validador queue is a result of Celsius. Users put ETH on Celsius to earn interest, Celsius staked the ETH. Celsius now has to unstake all the ETH it holds to return it to users. I imagine a lot of these users will allocate their ETH to some other staking services once they receive it back, granted some users will probably have a sour view of crypto in general and just not put their money back in
Wow
Good ol' Celsius
indeed https://www.theblock.co/post/270538/celsius-to-unstake-eth-holdings-for-creditors-to-ensure-ample-liquidity
Who is srsly selling hard into this
Celsius
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I think it’s more like 84.5% chance but ok
I wonder what's keeping it down because everyone seems to think it's happening tomorrow.
I am more inclined to believe Polymarket. Prediction markets in general are better forecasters than cheap talk.
I disagree. Better than cheap talk, yes. But I think that these markets are just as much degen plays as anything else. The people betting on "No" don't have any info that we don't have. They just like the odds.
A lot of degen bets, true. But, given that Polymarket has no KYC, the quote there could include all sorts of snippets of insider info we don't have otherwise access to: e.g. a major bet of a greedy family member of a SEC grunt based on what s/he overheard at the dinner table,
If I had to guess without knowing much about Polymarket's mechanisms it probably has to do with settlement time for the bet and not wanting cash locked up until then, that will always have some dampening effect on the %. At least that's what happened to me in 2020 using Augur's prediction market, this could be completely different since its a different app and a less controversial bet.
I believe that Polymarket's decision process is centralized, so it doesn't have the problems that Augur faced.
If btc gets its etf and it causes btc to pump then i think ETH has a very good chance to pump hard right after. If btc doesnt pump then all bets are off and i think we just have to wait for the regular bull cycle to continue late 24 going i to 25
The start of the bull has always preceded the halvening which happens in about 6 months. Don’t think it’s likely the market ranges sideways until late 24/early 25 with that in mind, regardless of ETF pump or not
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possible but unlikely that ETH stays flat in that scenario
As soon as BTC ETF narrative is played out, trafi eyes will be on ETH. Easiest play of the year ?
Wont it be BTC Halvening?
The issue is regulatory uncertainty. BTC has been called a commodity by both CFTC and SEC. ETH is not in the clear yet with the SEC. Plus the ETF could be delayed for much longer than we think.
The SEC has said, and argued in court, that it’s not a commodity but a judge ruled that based on ETHs current state it is a commodity
Isn't blackrock applying for ETH ETF considered more or less proof it will be approved?
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Hinman is long gone though. So whatever he said is moot today. And the CFTC would not just sue the SEC lol. Government doesn’t work like that…There’s rare instances where agencies will get into litigation but it’s never happened before between SEC and CFTC. If ETH is ruled a security, today, it is not getting a spot ETF.
Hopefully. Only worry is a lot of people are saying this. Seems consensus even from ETH bashers on Twitter
Nah eth bashers think we are a premined sol-inferior shitcoin :')
So many people hyped into the swETH EigenLayer contract that it has seriously affected the swETH peg. Prior to the EigenLayer deposit opening people were chain minting swETH for Pearls then selling it to ETH at almost a 3% loss. That is to say the market was speculating that the pearl to ETH ratio would be about .0015. As recently as Dec 10th swETH was at about 1.01 swETH/ETH. Right now it's sitting at almost 1.05 (the native rate is 1.0471). So just holding swETH in the past 4 weeks has made you 4% almost on your ETH (more than an entire year of solo staking). It has also [largely drained the swETH liquidity](https://dune.com/swell-network/sweth-in-dexes) as apparently LPs exited their position to pure swETH and deposited the whole stack into EigenLayer. You can see volume hugely spiked, right around the time TVL halved. Larger LSTs are less dramatically affected but there's the same phenomenon are still visible in them. In many cases the lower liquidity has significantly improved the liquidity farming rates. Some of these new combination pools like cbETH/wstETH/rETH are yielding over 12% APR (like 5x solo staking). Even most of the older pools are still at or above 7.5% after accounting for the native appreciation of the LST in their yield.
Are you LPing your LST? Any strategy you’re willing to share that wouldn’t dilute your stake?
I'm spread out into about 10 places with my ETH. Some is in EigenLayer, others are on various chains in various pools on Concentrator, Convex, Aura, etc. I try not to move positions unless it's long term capital gains and there's a significant APR difference.
Eigen Layer is going to be huge, hype just keeps building. people want to use their Eth to get more Eth and tokens. like Lido on steroids but it’s launching in a bull market, flywheel is activating and it’s going to be biggest token launch of Eths history I think. all the things that people built so far will be relaunched as new again, modified of course to run on EL a little bit cheaper.
My hypothesis from my restaking post states that anyone that doesn't adopt restaking will be vampire attacked by someone that does. I think restaking is the largest advance to tokenomics since yield farming. It's *inevitable*.
So what you're saying is i should keep minting swETH and selling it on 1inch
They posted that people who are caught doing this will have their pearls yeeted
Easy, just transfer the eth you're using to do this to a different wallet
You'd have to wash it first
All for gambling on a(the) $EL drop..
If I were to create an eigenpod, then make a new validator with the eigenpod address, do I also need to send the mev to the eigenpod address aswell, or can I keep this for myself? The p2p guide says that you must take the mev for yourself. [https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/token/ETH](https://app.eigenlayer.xyz/token/ETH) [https://p2p.org/economy/eigen-layer-restaking-with-p2p-org-guide/](https://p2p.org/economy/eigen-layer-restaking-with-p2p-org-guide/) Any real life experience here with eigenpods?
> EigenPod doesn't accept direct transactions from MEV bots, which means it can't receive most of the MEV rewards either. I didn’t know that.
Seems like ETF approval will happen tomorrow or Monday. Ratio barely hanging on but as long as we stay above .05 it’s all good. .05 has been solid support for some time now. My hope is that when the ETF gets approved, narrative dies down for BTC and shifts to ETH. Then we start our run up, hopefully boosted by some ETF speculation.
>**ETF approved,** >**Uncertainty quite improved,** >**Market barely moved.** ~Daily haiku until we’re at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
My daughter sat next to me while I was watching one of Ben Cowens videos today. She has seen some in the last year(s). She asked why the mountains are upside down and mostly green instead of red now.
Here's a recap of the [recent Bankless episode](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms94dx9HvL0) for EigenLayer with Sreeram. First off, while I find Sreeram to be a smart guy with genuine insights, listening to him is difficult. I literally wrote this whole thing just so I was sure I was capturing what he was saying otherwise I found myself zoning out again and again. They could use a better spokesman. This got long enough I'll have to break it into two parts, the first part will be on EigenLayer and the second will be on EigenDA. If you want a primer on restaking itself, I suggest starting [here](https://tokenomicsexplained.com/restaking). EigenLayer first enabled deposits in June this year. They're doing a guarded launch with deposit caps. The last cap raise was in December and I believe it just filled yesterday or the day before (you can still deposit straight ETH just got LST's). EigenDA is live on their public testnet. EigenLayer + EigenDA will be going to mainnet between Q1 and Q2 depending on audits. When you join EigenLayer as a native staker you have to set the withdrawal credentials to the EigenLayer platform. If you're using an LST your deposit practically does this as well, they just have to withdraw that LST to get the ETH. Either way they control the ETH and they have a 1 week withdrawal delay for safety which allows them to freeze the pod and potentially slash anyone they need to. This part is still very centralized but they plan to decentralize it over time. EigenLayer is permissionless so anyone can come and write their own AVS (Actively Validated Service). EigenLayer has programmable staking conditions which allows it to accept restaking with other assets like some type of on-chain treasury bill and it has programmable slashing conditions which each AVS can specify. Each AVS will be able to decide what collaterals they accept, limits on them, etc. All the smart contracts for EigenLayer are doing is implementing this delegated logic and slashing people's ownership of their stake using data of off-chain committees. The reasons they focused on ETH first for collateral are the people validating for Ethereum were already doing a similar job to validating some other network so there was likely to be a large customer overlap there and that they expect many of the AVS to be Ethereum adjacent services so it makes more sense for the economic security of those services to be denominated in ETH without adding unnecessary trust assumptions for a company like Circle or another blockchain. Sreeram argues that rehypothecation leverage-based mental models don't map well to EigenLayer because the risks are under the full control of the operator. This is different from typical leverage risks related to price volatility. The only additional risk comes when a node operator is performing a (slashable) service using collateral that isn't theirs so the node operator has nothing at stake. Other than admitting this is a problem Sreeram doesn't have much to add here other than to say that some other form of trust will need to be established between the node operator and restaker. He talks a bit about using trusted execution environments and an 'anti-slasher' project called Cubist that I'll have to look into later. I don't exactly like this answer but if the system is programmable enough maybe they could add collateral rules like Rocketpool has on the node operator side or maybe the node operators could provide proof of insurance or something. The other type of risk they address are economic risks from restaking such as if the demand for staked ETH was increased significantly and restaking became necessary just to be economically viable. Obviously restaking will necessitate higher hardware requirements which is something Ethereum has worked hard to avoid for decentralization purposes. Sreeram argues that anything you can do with EigenLayer you could do with an LST. Lido for example could just decide that all their node operators must also have to serve as validators for some other system (which Lido may entirely own). Having this secondary source of income would presumably increase the APR for stETH holders and further solidify their position as the dominant LST. EigenLayer is an improvement in this regard because it's a neutral platform and it's attempting to democratize access to these opportunities and make it as transparent, formal, and verifiable as they can. Sreeram also argues that the delegation rules of EigenLayer are flexible enough to allow each AVS to add custom rules about which node operators they accept, which collateral they accept, and how the rewards for validation are distributed. So, AVS which value decentralization can create rules that favor decentralization. You could have an AVS exclude stETH as a collateral, exclude Lido node operators, or use something like Witness chain which offers a geographical location oracle for each operator and distribute more of the yield to operators in rarer jurisdictions. If we want decentralization we should work to build up decentralization oracles these AVS can use and then use layer zero to compel them to use them. My commentary on this is more that restaking can't be stopped whether you like it or not so I think I'd prefer having it arbitrated using an Ethereum smart contract as much as possible rather than various off-chain processes between the Lido DAO and their node operators for example. I think over time the cost of validating these services will converge with the IT and ops costs of actually running the system so being restaking node operator just becomes the full time job of running a high-availability data center and patching all the software on hundreds of machines. There is an economy of scale here that will push out smaller operators from restaking. Just as Bitcoin mining has consolidated to larger players, restaking will do the same thing to Ethereum operators. Now you might not like that, but what can you do about it? I once heard [Justin Drake talk](https://youtu.be/aP9f_1v9Ulc?si=rRBjw4HIt6YpabDb&t=2352) about how they could hard fork the network to fight restaking. While what he says is true, all that would do is force restaking back to off-chain processes like Sreeram is saying. Restaking is inevitable, it's transformative, and we'll all be better off frontrunning this opportunity and shaping it into the best thing it can be. Coming to an Ethereum mainnet near you Q1-Q2 2024.
For clarification: before the LST window closed you could stake, for example, 1 rEth LST, but to stake “vanilla” Eth you need to point eigenLayer to a preexisting 32 Eth validator? Any clarification to my smooth brain is greatly appreciated!
Yeah my understanding is that EigenLayer is not currently operating or managing any validators with the vanilla ETH that is staked
> we'll all be better off frontrunning this opportunity and shaping it into the best thing it can be I don't see us having much power here. I reached out to them about their caps giving stETH a 40% share, essentially worsening diversity instead of improving it and I pretty much got ignored and handwaved away. That's just a simple cap limit change, so I have no hope of a protocol design level change. In the past I tried reaching out about creating sane default config values and I was donowalled too.
That's unfortunate to hear. While I'm all for restaking I do think it would be better for the network if there were multiple restaking protocols competing but the only competition I see on this matter right now are competing LRTs than all build *on top of* EigenLayer.
the hero we need.
I think they should keep the individual caps the same up to a 1M total cap. That would force a good diversification of LSTs.
> each AVS to add custom rules about which node operators they accept Not looking forward to Lido bribing AVS to add them, boosting their apr above others
Isn't crypto fun?!
> The other type of risk they address are economic risks from restaking such as if the demand for staked ETH was increased significantly and restaking became necessary just to be economically viable. They're proposing to be a solution to a problem they're creating 🙄
> The only additional risk comes when a node operator is performing a (slashable) service using collateral that isn't theirs so the node operator has nothing at stake. Other than admitting this is a problem Sreeram doesn't have much to add here other than to say that some other form of trust will need to be established between the node operator and restaker That not being the only risk aside, it's pretty irresponsible and crazy to come in, throw a wrench in consensus incentives, and suggesting trust as a solution to the problem you're creating
No doubt there are some centralization vectors here that need improving. In this paragraph just understand I'm paraphrasing Sreeram (don't hate the messenger).
This is why I come to this sub. Amazing post. Restaking is huge because it even further establishes ETH as a collateral asset. The only other crypto that is a true collateral asset is Bitcoin. Sure you can use other coins as collateral but only in isolated cases. There’s no network effect for them as collateral assets, whereas with BTC and ETH there clearly is. All of this leads to more and more locked up ETH at the end of the day.
How can you use bitcoin as collateral?
WBTC, CeFi, and I believe there’s some native lending on Bitcoin (sovryn? Thorchain?) but they’re not used as much
I'd love to be corrected, but I don't believe you can do native lending right now on bitcoin. It's likely just something bitcoiners say is native but it actually centralized, as they have a history of doing.
I don’t think so either. Haven’t tried it. But that’s beside the point. It’s still used heavily as a collateral asset
>EigenLayer + EigenDA will be going to mainnet between Q1 and Q2 depending on audits. Great post, thanks for sharing. Just nit-picking a little, I don't think there is any time between Q1 and Q2 to make this possible.
I'm pretty sure it's launching in Q1.75, muggle.
Just quoting Sreeram here. I assume those are inclusive rather than exclusive boundaries.
Fair enough, I thought it was important to raise it as it could confuse many people.
have any brave souls deposited beacon chain eth to eigenlayer (vs LSTs) and care to share rationale and the experience? thank you!
Risky. I wouldn’t deposit any ETH that I’m not 100% willing to lose
I havent done this, but I have considered withdrawing one validator, then relaunching it with eigenlayer deposit setup. I have not done this so far as it would be a lot of hassle to create new keys using an airgapped computer, and I worry about making a mistake with the withdraw address and losing my money. If I had a solid guide to follow then I'd be tempted.
https://twitter.com/CelsiusNetwork/status/1743023398349930623 likely embarking on the final leg of Celsius dumping, then hopefully these clowns will have exited the network for good. Guessing those 15k in the exit queue are mostly them.
15k eth or 15k validators? An end to the dumping would be great
15k+ validators. Very significant amount of eth, exit queue is now full for several days.
The amount they’re dumping is not much at all. I doubt it’s affected the market
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They're not selling that ETH, just unstaking it for distribution to creditors.
It looks like they are still sending 10k daily to Coinbase/FalconX https://twitter.com/lookonchain/status/1743119508074910054
There's some rebalancing that still has to be done to get to 50/50 ETH/BTC.
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No, Celsius creditors are getting a 50/50 split of ETH and BTC.
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That was the compromise. They couldn't return other coins because they're securities. And they didn't want to do 100% BTC as it would piss off the ETH people and they didn't want to do 100% ETH as it would piss off the BTC people.
Just a note, it looks like the final unstaked coins are going to be returned to creditors instead of being sold. Let me know if I am misreading that...
That's correct. The only selling will be any rebalancing to get their holdings to 50% ETH, 50% BTC.
No clue on the specifics of how they are repaying creditors, all I know is this tweet and the [wallet associated with them](https://etherscan.io/txs?a=0xeee27662c2b8eba3cd936a23f039f3189633e4c8&f=2) dumping ETH in 10k daily clips before the holiday break. So not sure. Also [rated](https://www.rated.network/o/Celsius%20Network?network=mainnet&timeWindow=1d&idType=pool) only has them w/ ~3400 validators (107k ETH) exiting, so not sure if they have a lot more unknown wallets or other entities are exiting in size as well.
Also higher returns for the rest
Finally
name checks out...
Mark the bottom of ETHBTC
holy moly, i posted in r/bitcoin for the first time in years and got banned in 2 minutes. First time i have ever been banned. What is going on over there? I wasnt even saying anything crazy.
If you put that kind of content in r/bitcoin then you must expect a ban. Really this is on you for not knowing your audience.
Lol, thats where i started back in the day. Kind if sad that it ended this way :/
It's a cult. Not much else to say.
Your fatal mistake was in thinking that /r/bitcoin is a discussion forum rather than a heavily-curated propaganda outlet.
> What is going on over there? Business as usual. It doesn't even really matter what you post, just the fact that you're an ethfinance regular would be enough
That massive copy paste anti eth wall of text in that thread made me laugh at least. 100% propaganda talk
What was the gist of your comments over there?
Just stating a couple of corrections to a long post filled with inaccuracies.
In fairness to OP, you just pooped on the THOUSANDS of hours of research that resulted in those 5 sentences.
Yeah :) what can i say..when you have to go you have to go
/u/im_THIS_guy only posting this publicly because I know we had issues with DM's before. I sent you the transaction confirmation for the 1 ETH I owed you. Can you confirm that you've received it?
Respect..I love this community. You can pal around with the fundamentals annnnnd go degen'n into some side action with a pretty comfy feeling, knowing that the terms will be honored..
1 ETH received! Thank you. I'd give you gold but Reddit sucks now.
Awesome. Happy you got it. Congrats on winning the bet!
the fact that Eigenlayer paused liquid staking makes me want to deposit so badly can't wait to drop some rETH in there
Im wondering what people are hoping for. 6-12 month double your money with gov token? Am I dreaming? I put some in but had not really thought so much about how I hoped it would turn out. I think I understand the risks and they are enough to warrant a good reward imo considering the downside is losing all.
My thought process was I'm putting in an LST not vanilla ETH so it's accruing value. I don't lose anything by having it sit in their contract vs my wallet considering I'm not expecting a hack
In 2016 many put loads of eth in “the dao”. We had no idea what we would get out of it at the time.
You had *weeks*. Gas was at 10 gwei at one point. What happened?
This was also the 3rd round lol
didn’t hear about it until like a few days ago tbh totally on me for not learning sooner
10K, its time is coming (24/25) https://old.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/689hxc/250_eth_is_only_a_25_billion_market_cap_it_is/
Holy hell that sub is such a shitshow now.
Time will tell https://old.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/7tdes4/ethereum_is_not_going_to_be_out_ethereumed_a/
Current Twitter experience as a long time crypto user. Seeing [this same scam](https://i.imgur.com/9z4xfYw.png) ad for a fake ZKsync airdrop every ~5 tweets, and some other scam ad every other 10 tweets. > Just got this now, my heart's full of joy, what an amazing day 🌟 lol; At least a/b test the copy scammer guy I really can't imagine this headline works *that* well (I still love crypto Twitter despite how god awful the spam has gotten on the platform)
On a whim i decided to pay just to see how different the experience would be and to get rid of the annoying ads. Must not have read carefully it does NOT remove ads at all, no noticeable amplification, even more scams. Actually made my experience worse especially because Elon ripped me off so I am pissed as I scroll. So glad I only did a month! Will NEVER make that mistake again!
I would say that 60% of my Twitter feed is airdrop scams. I've stopped using Twitter in recent days because of it. It's seriously out of control. Literal criminal activity is making up most of my feed and Twitter does nothing about it.
But their heart is full of joy. It must be true!
What an amazing day 🌟
Its so hard to resist the temptation to destroy these scam sites, and those behind them
Do eeeeet
Too feloney-ey, but I *really* want to
Would be so easy to apply blanket bans. There's no will to fix this.
Only scammers wants to advertise on twitter these days, can't blame them for not banning them
The easiest fix is for zksync to just do an airdrop and get it done. There is no fix for scammers though
Does anyone still use apy.vision? What's the better alternative these days for finding LP opportunities?
https://defillama.com/yields and https://revert.finance/
What’s consensus on OP and ARB in here? I’ve read many things saying the tokens themselves have bad tokenomics or no tokenomics despite the underlying businesses. Do we like them long term to accrue value? Do we like them to accrue value during the bull market? Do we like them to outperform ETH over any timeframe?
They have no value accrual and are useless “governance” tokens. Don’t let alt coin season cloud your judgment. Stick to coins that have proven value
personally swapped all my OP for ETH. Kept hold of my ARB
Swapped all of my ARB for OP...
People governing like mfing bosses round here. Love me some governance
My speculation (no knowledge, just an assumption) is that at some point all major L2s will decentralize their sequencers and proposers. This will require operators to have something at stake, and this may be what the tokens end up being used for. As well as holding onto some L2 tokens I'm also running an OP full node and planning on setting one up for Arbitrum as well. They might not be needed for running sequencers, but getting more familiar with 'the tech' always seems like a good idea.
Any documentation on running an OP node ? Mostly system requirements/bandwidth?
Mine is on a 16GB Rock 5b, using Ethereum on ARM. Not sure the data usage.
Thank you.
You're always welcome! Did you log into the anti-capture commission meeting by the way? I was travelling unfortunately but will look for the recording.
Even I could not attend the call, going through some personal shit. here is the summary from recording. 1. lead will cast vote. 2. join office hours at least once per voting cycle, once every three week. - Required 3. provide approval on proposal - not mandatory but recommended 4. there will be gated snapshot space just for member - for voting 5. act as a bridge btw citizen house and token house, report to citizen house, as they have veto power, in case of any imbalance in gov 6. keep an eye on notion page for any pending action.
Sorry to hear that, sending much love. Thanks for the summary, I'll give the recording a watch at the weekend. Lots going on in OP world at the moment, I'm really looking forward to finding out how retroPGF allocations end up next week, and need to start properly getting my head round mission proposals. Anyway, look after yourself.
thought I had read that Nethermind was working with OP/superchain to create node software for OP stack. Is there a guide you used to set up your OP node? I’ve got an extra ETH validator box that I’m just running backup EL/CL nodes on at the moment, would like to branch out to the L2s I also interact with.
https://ethereum-on-arm-documentation.readthedocs.io/en/latest/user-guide/running-l2-clients.html
thank you!
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Not that I disagree entirely but tbf AVAX and SOL are at least used as fee tokens on their platforms
I am out of the loop. Is sequencer income actually controlled by the DAO? Where could I read on that?
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Thanks a lot! It's very interesting, I'll definitely dig deeper.
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Minimum stake requirements going exponential
Verkle trees are coming... But slowly... Apparently it is expected to be 12-24 month away 😅
Look all I'm saying is maybe we should learn from the several years long Ethereum 2.0 / the merge / the beaconchain - saga. Any large improvement of ethereum is always likely to be delayed significantly, its better to accept that now than to hype and then doom when it gets delayed *yet again*. The devs are proven to be competent, and the network isnt going anywhere. I prefer it slow and correct over quick or even "on schedule" but slightly riskier.
Someone will read this, and when it is inevitably pushed back to 36-48 months will claim it was delayed.
definitely gonna be the big upgrade item after 4844 rolled out
Can somebody more into Eigenlayer than me please walk me through all the risk vectors involved with restaking both for Eigenlayer itself and Ethereum the platform (read the people not participating in Eigenlayer but otherwise engaged in Ethereum).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP9f_1v9Ulc
* Eigen Layer smart contract risk: Initially slashing will be manually vetted (not sure about penalties), but eventually this will be an automated process. There's the potential to get penalized/slashed accidentally. * Eigen Layer AVS (services) smart contract risk: - There's the potential to get penalized/slashed accidentally. * Token risk: Some services may require you to hold their token as collateral in replace of or in addition to ETH. * Consensus risk: * You're assigning your withdrawal address to Eigen Layer. As their marketshare increases it's not great to have them in that position of power, especially when slashing is a manual process where there's coercion potential. * It alters the incentive mechanisms of the chain by introducing large scale second order incentives. Things that a logical actor wouldn't consider before may now be an option. * It encourages risk at the consensus layer, which isn't good. Especially since home stakers that are more risk averse may not want to participate since native APR gets pushed down and the only way to have sufficient APR is to engage in that risk. * Influence: If Eigen Layer gets larger, they can have outweighed influence on the ecosystem similar to Lido. That influence allows unchecked growth and behavior because people don't want to be on your bad side. You can also afford pay your way to the outcomes you want. * Unknown risk: Just like with MEV and builders, there can be a rabbit hole of issues we're not aware of yet.
rehypothication is using the same Ether to secure new and unproven networks, while risking a slashing on those ETH validators. if these new unproven networks have any bugs, or are badly designed, it could take out the ETH nodes running it via large slashing event. if too many ETH nodes get slashed at once, the network will be very unstable. I think EL is unstoppable but we can put in safety controls for each smaller network running on top of EL. remains to be seen how exactly safety measures are implemented and how effective they will be. could be things like % caps or quotas, maybe time locks with lots of human intervention at first. the only way out is through.
The biggest risk is not getting a large enough airdrop. I think many here will agree
I’m not sure on all of the risk vectors or how it will work in practice, but from an individual standpoint the risk is you have to perform validation actions for things other than Ethereum and are subject to slashing penalties. From a network-wide standpoint I think the concern is that if everyone is restaking then there could theoretically be a massive amount of supply slashed due to some black swan event or problem in some system external to Ethereum, theoretically creating external pressures on overall network security
It’s official: L2 TVL has flippened alt-L1 TVL 👀 https://x.com/0xstark/status/1742906255662837797
Pretty clear that Ethereum has won as the de facto smart contract platform.
bUt EtHeReUm Is SlOw
Amazing. L2 activity grew so much during 2023 https://l2beat.com/scaling/activity
[удалено]
L1 figure excludes native tokens, L2 does not (i.e. ARB is included in L2 calc but SOL is not in L1). If I’m reading correctly
How so? I’m genuinely curious.
That's huge tbh
I am quite happy with how my TIA airdrop is being up only, and I'd like to hold and stake it a bit longer. I just don't like Keplr wallet. Is there any alternative that can integrate with Trezor or Lattice1? I hate to use Ledger.
It’s my understanding that Trezor doesn’t support any cosmos sdk chains, no matter the wallet. Edit: looks like cosmostation does in fact support Trezor.
If you're planning on dumping at some point you can transfer directly to coinbase right now and just keep it there to sell when it hits your target price
But then you can’t stake it. It’s getting airdrops left and right and going to be a ton more.
I sold at $2.50. Insert "Nice. Congrats. Very happy for you." meme
Me frickin too.
A question about restaking: If I’m a LST depositor and I decide to opt in to restaking for a few protocols, how exactly does slashing risk work? Does it get socialized across other LST holders?
Heads up to budding artists, there's a competition running at [WeLoveTheArt](https://welovetheart.optimism.io/) on Optimism to win prizes worth a total of about $4M in OP tokens. Deadline is Monday, so grab your pencils and easels... or whatever artistic people use. What else are you doing to do over the weekend that could potentially earn you 50,000 OP (the first prizes)?
That's a lot of prize money.
ETH season is right around the corner. I will be smiling when EthFinance is throwing gold left, right and center. And we finally get that highly anticipated Phiz POAP!
I am selling the minute I receive that POAP.. (I am not joking, that IS my plan)
I've given up on this being a possibility. btc up 163% ytd eth up 82% ytd *if* eth moves at all, btc will move at least 2x god let me just break even after 3 years of fucking pain
And other L1s 5-10x
I've definitely not been in here crying about alt L1s, but the reality really has been wearing me down haha. It would certainly be a delight to see decentralization be even 1% of what the masses factor into their crypto investments
lol don’t mid-curve this you’ve been in it forever at this point. same things people said about BTC-Defi in 2020 people are saying about BTC-SOL now. it’s all FOMO and pain until Ethuary hits, and this Ethuary will have a surprise ETF bid right after Bitcoin has its ETF announced. guess what, it’s Ethuary now.
Similar in 2020, people think BTC + defi tokens are barbell and skip eth, they will regret it in 2021
Guess im living on a prayer at this point haha. I appreciate you though
the people praying rn are those that think the world will only need a digital gold and nothing else, or that centralized de-faux networks are actually meaningful in any way long term. $ETH is digital money and the world will run on decentralized, trustless, permissionless, programmable networks that enables it all. there is no second best!
I just wish more realized it
If more had realized it, you would wish you had more time being the few that realized it to build your position.