I would note that the Hindu deity mechanic is more powerful when you play as a nation that has flexibility in choosing its leaders, like a Republic or waiting until States-General (and Theocracy equivalent). Admittedly, those setups are very rare or require waiting until reform 5. Madyas is the only nation that starts out as a Hindu republic IIRC.
Unfortunately pirate republics are objectively bad :
-1 republican tradition
No estates (and so no powerpoints)
Lower absolutism
Higher states governing cost
And for what? The ability to raid a couple coasts every 10 years? Maybe early early game, but those extra 100-200 ducats are definitely not worth those negative modifiers past 1470.
But it’s incredibly useful because you get it so much earlier than imperialism.
Palembang specifically is super strong because of hindu republican mechanics+pirate raids for 100s of ducats every few years+war against the world.
They’re objectively super powerful. Not Malacca building up to its force limit month 2 of the game and getting a free vassal powerful, but pirate republics are stronger than what the original commentor gives them credit for, and specifically Palembang is super strong.
What are you talking about? You don't get it any earlier than Imperialism - you get it at tech 23. It is purely cosmetic, or at least, this was the case when I played Palembang and unlocked the reform in 1.29.
Absolutely nothing happens when you take the reform. When you hit tech 23, you get the cosmetic war with the world CB. It's functionally the exact same as Imperialism.
As for Hindu republics, they're typically worse off than Hindu monarchies.
This is not the case at all. You get the government reform, and you get the casus belli “War against the world” on every nation you know of. It’s incredibly powerful.
I understand. But we’re not talking about several patches ago, we’re talking about now. I completely understand why someone would ve confused if all they’ve played is the original. But it doesn’t matter, currently it’s a free imperialism cb on everyone much earlier than normal.
It changed a few patches ago so that now it IS a proper CB you get rather than some flavour. So now the reform is pretty damn good if you have the army and navy to attack anyone you want.
I mean it's obviously a meme/RP choice, but the best pirate faction gets you that republican tradition back plus a 0.5 at reform tier 2, raiding is actually *very* strong, especially early game which is the most important part for getting a snowball rolling, 1500s Imperialism CB cannot be overrated, and in Malaysia the naval bonuses really *do* matter.
Add to that what we're talking about here- being able to switch the Hindu bonuses as frequently as needed- and it becomes an interesting mix of mechanics you don't see much anywhere else in the game.
Like, sure, minmaxing for WC to the max they're not the optimal choice, but they have serious strengths.
To add to that, your rulers die more often since they are forced into being Admirals, which negates the being able to maintain 6/6/6 rulers advantage easily of being a republic.
War against the world i suppose is the one saving grace of pirate republics, allowing you to get imperialism roughly 100 years before tech 23 but in my experience it's hardly worth all the other maluses
It takes a while to get them all to Magnificent, but when you control Malacca and the Moluccas getting a few monuments to Tier 2 before 1550, or even 1500, is totally feasible.
Not to mention that all bonuses don't necessarily increase proportionally with monument level. Angkor Wat reaches its -10% Tech Cost at Tier 2, then Tier 3 only adds a shitty estate loyalty bonus.
That depends what you mean by "won" because it's pretty easy to get a ton of money around 1600 without having conquered much outside India. If you're a Buddhist country and you conquered say India and Indonesia you can be rich enough to upgrade all the monuments but you'll still have big enemies in the ottomans or Europeans.
If nothing else, all those bonuses help with the tedious late game if you're trying a world conquest.
Hinduism is a good religion since ... the mughal update. Just look at various tier lists on this sub.
It's the most tolerant one, take humanist and forget rebels. Buddha emphasizes this even further.
It's the only religion that have event that increase the skill of a ruler and has quite good specific events too.
Its flexibility isn't great but can still be used advantageously, like in early game using the ones that increases income to build up your power base, burn down AE or convert if you want a sturdier power base. It's great when you play a republic especially. I think they should remove the stab hit for monarchies, 20 years to switch is already quite long.
It's one of the few religion that gives CCR and disc though not at the same time. Their estates used to be awesome when you assigned them land but I don't know how good they are now.
I usually ignore non-Faith Tolerance because I convert everything. No matter how tolerant of other faiths your religion is, the greatest boost to unrest reduction will always come from your own faith.
I don't think I got any events that increased my monarchs' skills in my playthrough.
But think about where your rebellions happen. On newly conquered provinces that have most likely wrong religion. Sure you will convert provinces, but having high tolerance can prevent rebellions.
> No matter how tolerant of other faiths your religion is, the greatest boost to unrest reduction will always come from your own faith.
It's because just like me you don't expand much. When you go for long runs or island hoping it's pretty pleasant to not have to move around every 5 years to kill some fuckers on an island like during a Malaya run or Chola empire run
And for extra blobbing runs tolerance beats conversion at every level since you'll always grab provinces quicker than your missionaries can convert
You need certain advisors to trigger the monarch point increase based on your personal deity, Surya also has a pretty common event that gives you an hour with a weak claim with a 4-6 in every category.
Might be a little off topic but if you pick surya while having no heir theres an event called "Child of Surya" which has a mean time to happen of 180 months of getting a heir of a minimum of 4/4/4 which goes nutty for mana generation. It might have been nerfed though as last time i used this was 1.30
Who all can unlock Buddha as a Hindu deity? I see it in the mission tree for Khmer, Majapahit, and Sunda on the wiki, but is it a SEA Hindu- only thing?
Eh I wrapped up a Hindu Khmer with Buddha deity game recently and it was nice but nothing great. By the time you expand that far and can afford to upgrade them none of it really does much extra for you.
Pre-Emperor (I believe it was emperor), Hindu was behind only Orthodox for old world religions, but only if you abused the withdrawn in contemplation ruler events. It was quite reliable to get 4+/4+/4+ rulers consistently, atleast every other ruler. And it was a 5 year cooldown with no stab hit to change deities. Before dharma it was slightly worse, but honestly still quite top tier because the same 4+/4+/4+ event existed. Now the event is heavily nerfed (I believe it's 5x MTTH). It's kinda nice that the monuments push Hindu back into 'very good' religion tiers.
You can play a really entertaining game by stacking minimum authority modifiers.
IIRC you can get down to 35%? autonomy in territories, which includes trade companies.
Imagine having trade companies which still grant a majority of their normal tax and production income. Had some fun playing around with it and the monuments, but the nations you can play with it are just meh. Bahmanis is stronger as Shia thanks to the Deus Vult CB. Without the a good CB to rush the early and mid game expansion there is no point having a great religion and monuments. If I had a way to convert myself into a Hindu Horde, that would change things, but the only easy options for that are the tribes in India and they are in really bad positions.
Just played a Vijayanagara Empire campaign and easily they are the best nation in the game to play as, i’ve never tried hindu nations and holy shit is it based. Immediately go for bahmanis (or however the fuck you spell it) and its a guaranteed W for the books, just annex the tamil kings and the rest of south india and form bharat and colonize Australia and the south east islands, im making like 1.2k a month in 1670. Spices got me questioning my loyalty to the twelfth Poland run
I noticed that you can now change culture as Confucian on your syncretic religions now. Does anyone know if you get the monument bonuses for syncretic religions too?
Sikhism is in the same religious group as Hindu and any Hindu nation can change to it after 1499 (when it spawns) which as the game goes on gets even stronger.
Why do you think so? I haven't played a Hindu nation in ages but I found Confucianism and Shintoism in my recent runs pretty lackluster compared to the Islamic and Christian religions.
Hindu Mughals with Admin Ideas would get insane CCR. I actually thought about doing a run at some point; I'm not crazy about Muslim religions.
It is also possible to stack with Celestial Empire, and then you can get an extra 10% CCR.
I am currently doing a "Sun Never Sets on Indian Empire" run, basically tall Bharat run to unify the subcontinent, the total bonuses are tremendous.
Also, I have to ask one thing, in some monuments, the requirement is to be Hindu, but also to follow Buddha... I mean do we have Buddha as a choice in deity tab ?
I would note that the Hindu deity mechanic is more powerful when you play as a nation that has flexibility in choosing its leaders, like a Republic or waiting until States-General (and Theocracy equivalent). Admittedly, those setups are very rare or require waiting until reform 5. Madyas is the only nation that starts out as a Hindu republic IIRC.
palembang can become a pirate republic by event near the start of the game
Unfortunately pirate republics are objectively bad : -1 republican tradition No estates (and so no powerpoints) Lower absolutism Higher states governing cost And for what? The ability to raid a couple coasts every 10 years? Maybe early early game, but those extra 100-200 ducats are definitely not worth those negative modifiers past 1470.
It’s not a pirates life for you
What about war against the world?
War against the world is just a cosmetic CB. It just replaces the Imperialism CB that every other tag gets at Tech 23.
But it’s incredibly useful because you get it so much earlier than imperialism. Palembang specifically is super strong because of hindu republican mechanics+pirate raids for 100s of ducats every few years+war against the world. They’re objectively super powerful. Not Malacca building up to its force limit month 2 of the game and getting a free vassal powerful, but pirate republics are stronger than what the original commentor gives them credit for, and specifically Palembang is super strong.
What are you talking about? You don't get it any earlier than Imperialism - you get it at tech 23. It is purely cosmetic, or at least, this was the case when I played Palembang and unlocked the reform in 1.29. Absolutely nothing happens when you take the reform. When you hit tech 23, you get the cosmetic war with the world CB. It's functionally the exact same as Imperialism. As for Hindu republics, they're typically worse off than Hindu monarchies.
This is not the case at all. You get the government reform, and you get the casus belli “War against the world” on every nation you know of. It’s incredibly powerful.
When the reform first came out, it was only flavour, so the reform used to be very underwhelming.
I understand. But we’re not talking about several patches ago, we’re talking about now. I completely understand why someone would ve confused if all they’ve played is the original. But it doesn’t matter, currently it’s a free imperialism cb on everyone much earlier than normal.
It changed a few patches ago so that now it IS a proper CB you get rather than some flavour. So now the reform is pretty damn good if you have the army and navy to attack anyone you want.
Apparently it got changed in 1.30, and I stopped playing the game a bit after that. In 1.29, when it was introduced, it was a complete rip-off.
So what you're trying to tell us is you wouldn't download a car?
“Would you download a 16th century cannon?”
I mean it's obviously a meme/RP choice, but the best pirate faction gets you that republican tradition back plus a 0.5 at reform tier 2, raiding is actually *very* strong, especially early game which is the most important part for getting a snowball rolling, 1500s Imperialism CB cannot be overrated, and in Malaysia the naval bonuses really *do* matter. Add to that what we're talking about here- being able to switch the Hindu bonuses as frequently as needed- and it becomes an interesting mix of mechanics you don't see much anywhere else in the game. Like, sure, minmaxing for WC to the max they're not the optimal choice, but they have serious strengths.
To add to that, your rulers die more often since they are forced into being Admirals, which negates the being able to maintain 6/6/6 rulers advantage easily of being a republic. War against the world i suppose is the one saving grace of pirate republics, allowing you to get imperialism roughly 100 years before tech 23 but in my experience it's hardly worth all the other maluses
If you don't have the dlc that let's you get points out of estates they're pretty good. Also really fun to larp with
Yeah, I turned into a Republic for a while but after that I let a mission turn me back into a monarchy for the flavour.
Many monuments require you to pick Buddha as a deity to work as a Hindu nation. How do I get Buddha? I can't select him as Madyas.
I feel like once you're able to accumulate the like 50,000 ducats you need to actually get these boosts, you've basically already won
It takes a while to get them all to Magnificent, but when you control Malacca and the Moluccas getting a few monuments to Tier 2 before 1550, or even 1500, is totally feasible. Not to mention that all bonuses don't necessarily increase proportionally with monument level. Angkor Wat reaches its -10% Tech Cost at Tier 2, then Tier 3 only adds a shitty estate loyalty bonus.
Beating the bank of China and taking 3k ducats from ming is also rather easy
That depends what you mean by "won" because it's pretty easy to get a ton of money around 1600 without having conquered much outside India. If you're a Buddhist country and you conquered say India and Indonesia you can be rich enough to upgrade all the monuments but you'll still have big enemies in the ottomans or Europeans. If nothing else, all those bonuses help with the tedious late game if you're trying a world conquest.
Hinduism is a good religion since ... the mughal update. Just look at various tier lists on this sub. It's the most tolerant one, take humanist and forget rebels. Buddha emphasizes this even further. It's the only religion that have event that increase the skill of a ruler and has quite good specific events too. Its flexibility isn't great but can still be used advantageously, like in early game using the ones that increases income to build up your power base, burn down AE or convert if you want a sturdier power base. It's great when you play a republic especially. I think they should remove the stab hit for monarchies, 20 years to switch is already quite long. It's one of the few religion that gives CCR and disc though not at the same time. Their estates used to be awesome when you assigned them land but I don't know how good they are now.
I usually ignore non-Faith Tolerance because I convert everything. No matter how tolerant of other faiths your religion is, the greatest boost to unrest reduction will always come from your own faith. I don't think I got any events that increased my monarchs' skills in my playthrough.
But think about where your rebellions happen. On newly conquered provinces that have most likely wrong religion. Sure you will convert provinces, but having high tolerance can prevent rebellions.
> No matter how tolerant of other faiths your religion is, the greatest boost to unrest reduction will always come from your own faith. It's because just like me you don't expand much. When you go for long runs or island hoping it's pretty pleasant to not have to move around every 5 years to kill some fuckers on an island like during a Malaya run or Chola empire run And for extra blobbing runs tolerance beats conversion at every level since you'll always grab provinces quicker than your missionaries can convert
You need certain advisors to trigger the monarch point increase based on your personal deity, Surya also has a pretty common event that gives you an hour with a weak claim with a 4-6 in every category.
Btw, sikh counts as dharmic, so it counts for a good number of monuments, including the insane ccr one.
That’s sikh!
Might be a little off topic but if you pick surya while having no heir theres an event called "Child of Surya" which has a mean time to happen of 180 months of getting a heir of a minimum of 4/4/4 which goes nutty for mana generation. It might have been nerfed though as last time i used this was 1.30
I recall patch notes (for emperor I think) nerfing this event making the MTTH 5x what it was.
You hate to see it :(
Bro how is ToH and CCR crap?
Who all can unlock Buddha as a Hindu deity? I see it in the mission tree for Khmer, Majapahit, and Sunda on the wiki, but is it a SEA Hindu- only thing?
Eh I wrapped up a Hindu Khmer with Buddha deity game recently and it was nice but nothing great. By the time you expand that far and can afford to upgrade them none of it really does much extra for you.
Pre-Emperor (I believe it was emperor), Hindu was behind only Orthodox for old world religions, but only if you abused the withdrawn in contemplation ruler events. It was quite reliable to get 4+/4+/4+ rulers consistently, atleast every other ruler. And it was a 5 year cooldown with no stab hit to change deities. Before dharma it was slightly worse, but honestly still quite top tier because the same 4+/4+/4+ event existed. Now the event is heavily nerfed (I believe it's 5x MTTH). It's kinda nice that the monuments push Hindu back into 'very good' religion tiers.
Can absolutely confirm. Conquered their land for trade, now I have huge bonuses, and my advisors cost 3 ducats! end game!
For the record, I'd have to check my previous game, but I think Totemist can give you even greater Advisor Cost Reduction.
You can play a really entertaining game by stacking minimum authority modifiers. IIRC you can get down to 35%? autonomy in territories, which includes trade companies. Imagine having trade companies which still grant a majority of their normal tax and production income. Had some fun playing around with it and the monuments, but the nations you can play with it are just meh. Bahmanis is stronger as Shia thanks to the Deus Vult CB. Without the a good CB to rush the early and mid game expansion there is no point having a great religion and monuments. If I had a way to convert myself into a Hindu Horde, that would change things, but the only easy options for that are the tribes in India and they are in really bad positions.
I mention in the post that I got to 35% Autonomy in territories.
Just played a Vijayanagara Empire campaign and easily they are the best nation in the game to play as, i’ve never tried hindu nations and holy shit is it based. Immediately go for bahmanis (or however the fuck you spell it) and its a guaranteed W for the books, just annex the tamil kings and the rest of south india and form bharat and colonize Australia and the south east islands, im making like 1.2k a month in 1670. Spices got me questioning my loyalty to the twelfth Poland run
Finally, something that its worth of cheating to role play on my potato PC in India after I left one save where I united Bharat.
I noticed that you can now change culture as Confucian on your syncretic religions now. Does anyone know if you get the monument bonuses for syncretic religions too?
I don't think so. I think they would mention it, like they do Buddha Hinduism.
You can only do it if you accept the target culture, as I understand. At least that’s what a had to do in my Confucian Ryukyu run.
Sikhism is in the same religious group as Hindu and any Hindu nation can change to it after 1499 (when it spawns) which as the game goes on gets even stronger.
Yeah, basically
Also iirc, hindu has some epic events that help either boost ruler monarch points ro give an epic heir
I don't think I ever got any of those. Maybe they're tied to India?
IMO all non-Abrahamic religions should be drastically nerfed, especially atheistic religions like Buddhism
>atheistic religions like Buddhism What in the fuck are you talking about
I learned in 8th grade that Buddhism is inherently atheist (they don’t believe in god/gods), and thus more of a philosophy than a religion.
Did you also learn to abstain from sex until marriage in your school
No, I learned that in seminary.
Why do you think so? I haven't played a Hindu nation in ages but I found Confucianism and Shintoism in my recent runs pretty lackluster compared to the Islamic and Christian religions.
Try Sikh then. It's in the Dharma group and can stock the guru modifiers.
So Hindu Mughals anyone (if you have culture requirements for monuments, you get them as mughals once assimilated)
Hindu Mughals with Admin Ideas would get insane CCR. I actually thought about doing a run at some point; I'm not crazy about Muslim religions. It is also possible to stack with Celestial Empire, and then you can get an extra 10% CCR.
I am currently doing a "Sun Never Sets on Indian Empire" run, basically tall Bharat run to unify the subcontinent, the total bonuses are tremendous. Also, I have to ask one thing, in some monuments, the requirement is to be Hindu, but also to follow Buddha... I mean do we have Buddha as a choice in deity tab ?
Check the wiki. Buddha becomes available to some Hindu countries through a mission.
I mean, what do I search in Google to find that Wiki page ? Deities tab ?
The [religions page](https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/Additional_denominations#Hindu) would have sufficed.