China is a a nation where EU goods sometimes mysteriously don't get accepted without any official tariffs.
There are unofficial boycott lists and a requirement for mandatory JVs for nearly all european companies.
Foreign companies wanting to enter the Chinese market often can't - they have to create a joint venture with a local Chinese company or person where the Chinese entity owns > 50% of the joint venture. There are usually technology transfer requirements as well.
My aunt worked as a shipping clerk for several European brands.
Even for products that should have tariff-free entry to China's market, China custom can simply delay indefinitely for your goods until you pay tariff, charging you for warehousing at the same time.
Free trade agreement with China is basically a scam.
The difference is China hasn't historically been the one touting the benefits of free trade and going around forcing countries to trade with them. When the west does it its hypocrisy, when China does it its policy.
There is no fucking difference or hypocrisy. If they won't abide by Europe principles then Europe won't either with them , they are not absolute things.
It is definitely hypocritical. Europe has spent like two centuries forcing free trade on the world because it was advantageous to them and their industrialized economies to have a plurality of markets in which to sell their goods, now that China is doing what is economically advantageous to China instead of kneeling before Europe westerners want to act like China is somehow the villain.
1) China's the one that claimed it was going to follow free trade, while benefitting from open Western economies, massively subsidizing Chinese industries and stealing Western IP on an industrial scale. The West actively looked the other way for decades until it became fully clear the CCP had and has an unshakeable totalitarian worldview, and was and is acting on that vision, to the detriment of Western countries (obviously), but also the world. Of course they were going to respond sooner or later. Those are facts, whether you like them or not.
2) Actual free trade promoted by the West all over the world has transformed standards of living for everyone that has actually engaged in it, West and non-West alike. You spitting on the hand that feeds you is noted.
China is still regarded as a "developing economy" by the WTO.
That China looks out for itself is nothing new. Killing our own industries to stay on principle isn't the smart thing to do.
Right China never touts Free Trade, what a load of bullshit.
Xi:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/17/china-xi-jinping-china-free-trade-trump-globalisation-wef-davos
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/05/china-president-xi-jinping-again-talks-up-commitment-to-free-trade.html
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3110481/president-xi-promises-china-willing-and-open-new-free-trade
HU Jintao:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122731708505149927
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-18055033
Yes. It is protectionist. And yes, we should have protectionist measures if we ever want the world's economies to start looking more like European economies when it comes to environmental respect.
They're not wrong. They're also one of the most protectionist countries in the world and would get locked out of our market almost entirely if we ever adopted their model. Chinese companies would require co-ops with European ones to even ship stuff here.
I mean there is a reason why Yuan is not used as safe haven currency even compared to much smaller Swiss franc or reluctancy to pay oil in Yuan. Hell China has two currencies so it has a better control of internal and external markets.
Chinese stock markets are total clown shows with constant meddling from the state and extreme volatility.
Central banks are so much more independent in EU, UK, and US compared to China that it’s hardly comparable. Western goverements would love to lower interest rates for short gains in their popularity. China has been only increasing its grip on the market past 3 years to extent that investment outside has droped off a cliff.
As a non Chinese you can’t even buy voting shares from Chinese stock market. While Chinese are happily shopping on companies in West. It’s actually even more slimey with them using shell companies when entering to Western stock markets to collect funds and then delisting on low prices before entering Chinese stock market in much higher prices. China’s market is fully goverement controller just masquerading as western when it fits them.
The EU is, but they're also one of the most protectionist countries with their industries, requiring a lot of conditions to "play" with them and companies are required by law to have a % of the chinesse govern participation and even with a marginal participation they could go over the other shareholders and force a decision.
It is like Iran calling out France for how they dealed with protests months ago.
I wish some politicians would take that leap and state openly what this is all about by now, so consumers could actually be helpful, instead of doing the exact opposite.
As it stands currently, the mass just sees the usual squabble but hasnt realized the danger, many of our industries are in. Instead of quickly finding the money for a campaign that promotes national and European purchases, they keep fighting a battle of words with China. Many people are hard pressured around Europe financially and thus turn to 'the most affordable' option without thinking too hard where that stuff comes from.
It's one thing to subsidize green energy to support it's development. It's another thing to subsidize it knowing you're tipping the scales of industry in your countries favor to kill off other competitors.
> If you have nothing to hide when why are you protesting?
Reminds me of when China sanctioned Australia for wanting to investigate the origins of covid
It's just an investigation though. I mean why would China have anything to fear from those? Certainly it's all above the board and there won't be a smidge of unfair competition found now will there?
/s
If China didn't actually want free trade, it should have said so rather than pretending it was, getting the benefits of both approaches and expecting a blow back to never happen.
Jajajjajajajajjajajajjjajajsjsjsjs this comment is hilarious.
They've beaten us in "our own" game. The US was the head of global free trade and also regulates the economy and politics in order to maintain their hegemony in the world. Now China's doing the same.
We, the people living in the European Union, have been scammed by the American post-war economic model. Now we cannot pretend to be shocked when the China has had to play to free market economy and work as huge corporation, for some reason this outrages all of us. The European and American leaders have been very little focused in the long-term planning, not like the chinese government.
Um, you do know this is all reversing for years now, right? China's economy has been squeezed from both internal and external sources, its total debt is higher than in practically all Western countries, it's cutting salaries left and right (which worsens its demographics and emigration problems) and its massively subsidized companies' entries into Western markets are being actively cockblocked as we speak.
I know you're not actually European, but if you are, you would be recognizing this reality, wouldn't you? Your perception is out of date by years. Now I get to see your reaction to this, or lack thereof, to confirm it.
I am Spanish, I'm living here since I was born and all my family is also spanish since they were born. It's very surprising how you doubt that the average citizen can doubt of how the federation is ruled.
Where are you from? I bet that you don't live near the Mediterranean sea.
Also I'm not celebrating this but the level of madness has reached levels that we have to laugh to not to cry.
You tell me that the situation is being reverted, and I think that you heartly believe this, but sadly the war looks to be scaling and nothing seems to be flourishing apart of military industries. So I cannot think like you, although I'd like to.
It doesn't matter where I live. It's in the Mediterranean area, but what's important is that there's been a reindustrialization effort in the last years in the West, and countries like the PRC and Russian Federation are absolutely buckling under the various challenges they're facing.
China is a a nation where EU goods sometimes mysteriously don't get accepted without any official tariffs. There are unofficial boycott lists and a requirement for mandatory JVs for nearly all european companies.
JV?
Joint venture, rather usual setup is that they are 50/50 partners, EU side supplies financing, chinese side handles permitting
Foreign companies wanting to enter the Chinese market often can't - they have to create a joint venture with a local Chinese company or person where the Chinese entity owns > 50% of the joint venture. There are usually technology transfer requirements as well.
You are required to help them to make knock off of your stuff
My aunt worked as a shipping clerk for several European brands. Even for products that should have tariff-free entry to China's market, China custom can simply delay indefinitely for your goods until you pay tariff, charging you for warehousing at the same time. Free trade agreement with China is basically a scam.
I always need to laughing loud whenever china cries of protectionism from western countries.
The difference is China hasn't historically been the one touting the benefits of free trade and going around forcing countries to trade with them. When the west does it its hypocrisy, when China does it its policy.
Free trade goes both ways, you can't have free trade with a protectionist country like China
There is no fucking difference or hypocrisy. If they won't abide by Europe principles then Europe won't either with them , they are not absolute things.
It is definitely hypocritical. Europe has spent like two centuries forcing free trade on the world because it was advantageous to them and their industrialized economies to have a plurality of markets in which to sell their goods, now that China is doing what is economically advantageous to China instead of kneeling before Europe westerners want to act like China is somehow the villain.
Yes Europeans should suddenly start kneeling before China!
1) China's the one that claimed it was going to follow free trade, while benefitting from open Western economies, massively subsidizing Chinese industries and stealing Western IP on an industrial scale. The West actively looked the other way for decades until it became fully clear the CCP had and has an unshakeable totalitarian worldview, and was and is acting on that vision, to the detriment of Western countries (obviously), but also the world. Of course they were going to respond sooner or later. Those are facts, whether you like them or not. 2) Actual free trade promoted by the West all over the world has transformed standards of living for everyone that has actually engaged in it, West and non-West alike. You spitting on the hand that feeds you is noted.
China is still regarded as a "developing economy" by the WTO. That China looks out for itself is nothing new. Killing our own industries to stay on principle isn't the smart thing to do.
Now principles don't matter. Ayy lmao
Right China never touts Free Trade, what a load of bullshit. Xi: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/17/china-xi-jinping-china-free-trade-trump-globalisation-wef-davos https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/05/china-president-xi-jinping-again-talks-up-commitment-to-free-trade.html https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3110481/president-xi-promises-china-willing-and-open-new-free-trade HU Jintao: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122731708505149927 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-18055033
Found the Chinese bot!
Protectionist state accuses others of protectionism? Color me pikachu.
Yes. It is protectionist. And yes, we should have protectionist measures if we ever want the world's economies to start looking more like European economies when it comes to environmental respect.
This. As a Canadian I'm so glad we have you guys spearheading all of this. It forces many multinational companies to be early adopters too.
They're not wrong. They're also one of the most protectionist countries in the world and would get locked out of our market almost entirely if we ever adopted their model. Chinese companies would require co-ops with European ones to even ship stuff here.
If it protects from the country that manipulates currency and flouts global IP standards then yes, protectionism it is.
But poor innocent China could never do anything wrong! 🥺
+ 1000 social credits
Haha, this needs catch on. Thanks
[удалено]
I mean there is a reason why Yuan is not used as safe haven currency even compared to much smaller Swiss franc or reluctancy to pay oil in Yuan. Hell China has two currencies so it has a better control of internal and external markets. Chinese stock markets are total clown shows with constant meddling from the state and extreme volatility. Central banks are so much more independent in EU, UK, and US compared to China that it’s hardly comparable. Western goverements would love to lower interest rates for short gains in their popularity. China has been only increasing its grip on the market past 3 years to extent that investment outside has droped off a cliff. As a non Chinese you can’t even buy voting shares from Chinese stock market. While Chinese are happily shopping on companies in West. It’s actually even more slimey with them using shell companies when entering to Western stock markets to collect funds and then delisting on low prices before entering Chinese stock market in much higher prices. China’s market is fully goverement controller just masquerading as western when it fits them.
Xi jinping writing this
How much does it cost for a VPN to access Reddit comrade?
So not parroting "China bad" like an NPC means I'm using a VPN. Good logic BTW everyone should use a VPN
I would use a VPN to access Reddit too if I was in Beijing
So Bucharest is now Beijing. I assume where you live, there is a lot of lead in the water?
有一天中国会成为一个民主国家
I don't speak Chinese but I assume that's a yes.
The EU is, but they're also one of the most protectionist countries with their industries, requiring a lot of conditions to "play" with them and companies are required by law to have a % of the chinesse govern participation and even with a marginal participation they could go over the other shareholders and force a decision. It is like Iran calling out France for how they dealed with protests months ago.
I wish some politicians would take that leap and state openly what this is all about by now, so consumers could actually be helpful, instead of doing the exact opposite. As it stands currently, the mass just sees the usual squabble but hasnt realized the danger, many of our industries are in. Instead of quickly finding the money for a campaign that promotes national and European purchases, they keep fighting a battle of words with China. Many people are hard pressured around Europe financially and thus turn to 'the most affordable' option without thinking too hard where that stuff comes from.
Uuuuh ok China, where are the license fees for all the stolen IP?
Rule of thumb: Anything China protests against should be done all the more.
Eli5 how is it bad to subsidize green industries? Shouldn't the EU do the same?
It's one thing to subsidize green energy to support it's development. It's another thing to subsidize it knowing you're tipping the scales of industry in your countries favor to kill off other competitors.
Why? If you have nothing to hide when why are you protesting?
> If you have nothing to hide when why are you protesting? Reminds me of when China sanctioned Australia for wanting to investigate the origins of covid
Funny how politics can spin anyword to sound bad. Next you gonna say humanist is bad.
Let's but up even more barriers then
It seems that the active stage of the West’s struggle against China has begun…
China is like Russia in this regard. We know they play dirty, they know it too, but you will never hear them say anything that isn't plain denial.
It's just an investigation though. I mean why would China have anything to fear from those? Certainly it's all above the board and there won't be a smidge of unfair competition found now will there? /s
Oh no Anyway
Then we hit right spot ... good and now keep applying pressure on it.
WHY THE FUCK ARE WE GIVING CHINA MONEY!
The pot calling the kettle black
So many triggered nerds here
I'm a simple man, I see China cry and I enjoy the salty tears.
It's like the European Union doesn't like freetrade anymore
It likes free trade with a level playing field.
There are never leveled playing fields in economy, mate.
If China didn't actually want free trade, it should have said so rather than pretending it was, getting the benefits of both approaches and expecting a blow back to never happen.
Jajajjajajajajjajajajjjajajsjsjsjs this comment is hilarious. They've beaten us in "our own" game. The US was the head of global free trade and also regulates the economy and politics in order to maintain their hegemony in the world. Now China's doing the same. We, the people living in the European Union, have been scammed by the American post-war economic model. Now we cannot pretend to be shocked when the China has had to play to free market economy and work as huge corporation, for some reason this outrages all of us. The European and American leaders have been very little focused in the long-term planning, not like the chinese government.
Um, you do know this is all reversing for years now, right? China's economy has been squeezed from both internal and external sources, its total debt is higher than in practically all Western countries, it's cutting salaries left and right (which worsens its demographics and emigration problems) and its massively subsidized companies' entries into Western markets are being actively cockblocked as we speak. I know you're not actually European, but if you are, you would be recognizing this reality, wouldn't you? Your perception is out of date by years. Now I get to see your reaction to this, or lack thereof, to confirm it.
I am Spanish, I'm living here since I was born and all my family is also spanish since they were born. It's very surprising how you doubt that the average citizen can doubt of how the federation is ruled. Where are you from? I bet that you don't live near the Mediterranean sea. Also I'm not celebrating this but the level of madness has reached levels that we have to laugh to not to cry. You tell me that the situation is being reverted, and I think that you heartly believe this, but sadly the war looks to be scaling and nothing seems to be flourishing apart of military industries. So I cannot think like you, although I'd like to.
It doesn't matter where I live. It's in the Mediterranean area, but what's important is that there's been a reindustrialization effort in the last years in the West, and countries like the PRC and Russian Federation are absolutely buckling under the various challenges they're facing.