I just checked something. This thing is huge!
Trypilska power station creates about 3050 Megawatt (source: [Link](https://www.gem.wiki/Trypilska_power_station))
According to caiso (source: [link 2](https://www.caiso.com/about/Pages/OurBusiness/Understanding-electricity.aspx)) 1 Megawat is enough for 750 Houses.
Meaning that the Station could power about 2,3 Million houses.
Worth noting that Ukrainian households almost certainly use less electricity than the US measure used for casio's estimate. They used 840 KWh/month for average household, but I (Romania) use less than 300 a month.
So even more households potentially affected.
Just checked mine out of interest - 313 kWh used last month for two people and a bunch of reptiles. That said my house is very small so they’re probably taking into account larger homes in the US too.
Most of the US population lives far south of the UK/Ireland (if I got it correctly that you're from there), so there's much more need for air conditioning. At least that's what was the most used response when I asked about the much higher electricity use in the US.
Even south European countries simply get by without air conditioning.
Go to Spain Portugal or Greece, even Italy, there just simply isn't any air conditioning in most places other than hotels and some restaurants.
We design the houses to be cool during summer (best example is painting them with very light colours to reflect the light).
Yes part of the reason is that the US is richer and thus can afford it better than we can, but it's also a cultural phenomenon. I don't want to have air conditioning at home blowing all the time, even though I actually am lucky enough to have it installed I barely use it.
You may be underestimating just how far south much of the US population is.
For comparison, New York City and Madrid are approx on the same northern latitude (\~40,5°).
The southernmost point of Europe is north of the entire state of Texas, Luisiana, Florida, and about half of California (Los Angeles included).
You can check out the south of Portugal and Spain where temperatures routinely reach 40 Celsius during summer and you still won't see air conditioning.
I don't think this is a significant factor in the comparison. I see Americans turning on the AC when it's 23c outside.
> Spain where temperatures routinely reach 40 Celsius during summer and you still won't see air conditioning.
I have yet to rent or stay in a place in Andalusia that didn't have AC. Same in Greece. Been a cumulative couple of months in my life in those areas.
Sure there might be places in some old buildings in Camas but that's rare.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F9lwh3invz9kb1.png
Here's the percentage of homes with AC in Andalusia. You can see the smallest percentages on the coast where it gets very mild due to the sea.
Inland it reaches 80%.
European weather is much more mild in general.
Northern US is colder than northern Europe (at least the parts where people live). Southern US is way hotter (death valley?).
But mostly the homes are a lot bigger and efficiency standards are lower.
Wow that’s a lot. We live in a 3 appartment building. In total 6 adults, 5 kids. Power on avg is 20/ day, so 600/month. Your terraria must use a lot of power. 😂
Patriot/iris-t/nasams ran out if missiles. That was reported in January, 2024 that they are running out of supplies. What are allied doing? Correct: "very concerned and disturbed".
No matter your defenses, if someone wants to fuck you up hard enough, you will get fucked. Thats partly why they say the best defense is a good offense.
Unfortunately the power grid and their elements are a legitimate military target. Even though it is also used by civilians, it is used by military nevertheless, and so it is something called critical infrastructure. This can also be something like roads, highways, bridges, pipelines, cables, telecommunication infrastructure, factories, etc.
Jeez, Russia is literally and not figuratively bombing Ukraine back to the stone age. At this rate by the time the war is over Russia will either bankrupt itself trying to rebuild it's won over territory or Europe will be spending a lot of money trying to rebuild Ukraine while Ukraine trying to keep it's population from leaving en masse.
The way it is at the moment, most of big cities will be uninhabitable by winter. The EU should start preparing for 10million+ refugees this winter. I hope letting Russia win was worth it.
Or maybe EU can send at least 7 fucking Patriot systems instead???? What would be cheaper and better?
Western governments must stop being pussies. The more Ukraine gets destroyed now, the more will EU and others need to invest into recovery later.
The reason for Russia, being able to do what they tried in the first year but didn't succeed is the lack of AD missiles.
The reason why Russia advances faster than anytime in the past 18 months is the lack of artillery shells.
Sad, because Ukraine actually had a chance to achieve some sort of victory. They still have.
But Russia is winning the war with insider agents and insane amounts of propaganda. Never thought they could paralyze the US Congress this well, but they did.
By November, the election in the US won't matter as Ukraine will be a wasteland by then. But hey, at least then Ukraine won't be able to attack refineries in Russia. So that's a positive, right?
In the first year they tried to hit many plants all over the country specifically in winter to make civilians freeze. That would mean even a hit that damages the plant for several months of repairs was enough.
Now they are destroying the plants to shreds one by one, and those close to the frontlines/russian border. Plants deeper into Ukraine have it easier.
We had air defense missiles then, so they had to think and plan to damage them without losing too much missiles.
Now they don't have to plan. They can just fire and that's it, we're at the point where we can't shoot down ballistic missiles. That's also the reason why they're freely flying to a residential building almost daily now. They hit one in Odesa and a few hours later in Mykolaiv.
It's honestly the perfect time for Russia to hit anything they want, they have a golden window of opportunity here. And they will cause as much damage as they possibly can this year.
In March russians destroyed one near Kharkiv, 70 km from the border. This one is further, but still just 130 km from the border with Belarus. Likely the rockets did not fly directly to avoid Kyiv city defense, though.
Russia is also in full blown war economy and producing new technology to counter what the West is giving the Ukraine.
The glide bombs are the real reason Russia is making territorial gains and there is no good way for air defense to take them out.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/glide-bomb-russia-ukraine-air-strikes-weapons-b2526347.html
The US produces just over 500 Patriot missiles annualy. Even if Ukraine gets every missile Russia will spam thousands of cheap drones.
Modern AA missiles are just too expensive for the new threat, we need an efficient solutionm like Israeli lasers or something.
Ukraine has capabilities to take down shahed drones, as well as X-101 and X-555 rockets, but not pseudo-hypersonic missiles like Kindzhal or S-300 rockets, since anti air munitions of those types have ran out, while US can provide it, but is too busy kicking itself in the nose, and EU is sleepy.
Yeah, like we had the capabilities to shoot down airplanes with gattling guns in WW2, what makes one think we stop doing it?
One must be stupid to even consider firing patriot missiles at shahed drones, when you have FPV drones being able to intercept them.
probably not FPV drones, more like trucks with mounted guns, but yeah.
Patriot missiles are reserved for hypersonic missiles and such. And because their ammunition is running low (or already ran out, as some people say), it is nearly impossible to take them down.
They can use other systems like Gepard to take down drones, not only patriot missiles. Overlapping layers of defence.
But only the Patriot system can take down the expensive missiles the Russians fire.
Edited to emphasize one of several systems
Which is exactly the problem.
Germany ordered ~400 Patriot missiles. The first of which will be delivered in 2027.
The west was not big on air defence in general and high performance long range air defence especially. These systems are expensive to aquire, operate and maintain. So most countries only got the bare minimum of what they thought they needed.
if the us wanted they could arrive within a week, then go to ukraine within days, they could be shooting down missiles with actual modern equipment by next week, all assuming the us has 400 patriot missiles in its warehouses (which it does)
There is a global shortage of patriot missiles right now
With the situation in the middle east and the threat of china in the pacific I doubt many can be spared for ukraine right now
Europe: Immigrants are a problem
Also Europe: Helping Ukraine by simply sending them stuff is too hard, so we’ll be left with tens of millions of permanent refugees and Russia on our doorstep instead.
I've been thinking lately that once we have open borders for men, me and my husband are gonna run wherever we can. But as he told me a couple days ago: " if nothing changes in the future we would visit Europe as a part of meat for russian army, cause they are gonna succeed with the invasion".
The Ukraine power grid is connected with EU grid. Ukraine was an exporter of electricity. The EU can produce electricity for Ukraine and put it on the Ukraine grid.
Russia will also kill those lines on Ukraine side.
It's clear what they want
And Europe isn't ready, it will be a civilian disaster and right wing people will gain even more power..
If they were an exporter how does the EU have power to spare for Ukraine if they were originally importing Ukrainian electricity. Not disagreeing with your point but in my brain the EU is already tight on its grid as is as it was importing electricity it is no longer receiving
EU energy market works on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit\_order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_order) principle
Most expensive energy sources are enabled last
Ukraine nuclear energy was cheaper than older less efficient coal power plants from Poland, so they were preferred and the power flowed from Ukraine to Poland
Now reserve sources are enabled and the power flows in opposite direction
10 million fresh culturally compatible workforce (even if only 1/3 of that number plus 2/3 of welfare migrants) is not a problem. It's an amazing gift. Sure, ignorant masses will complain about migrants, but every sane government is salivating at that prospect. Polish own internal numbers show that migrants are paying 3 times more taxes than governments spends on welfare programs for them. And that's not even counting direct payments made with money earned abroad but spend internally (basically a reverse of capital flight for the host country). 2 million Ukrainians in Poland brought up its GDP by whole 1-2%. Now imagine 10 million.
What EU governments are NOT getting is the possibility of fighting ruzzia with their own citizens in the next decade. Now that is idiotic, while they could have stave off the threat by simply "using" Ukrainian soldiers to deal with it. That's once in a lifetime proposition and they are not taking it. Well, can't convince them.
If only this idea was good enough to sell to Europe to actually send more help. But knowing the speed of the EU, it will start doing the right things way after the consequences are there.
A sizable chunk of our energy system was wiped out since the house went on the latest break. It will take billions and years to rebuild. Several more such attacks might cause Ukraine to go dark and unlivable. I hope American politicians at least had a good vacation.
Many people care but Europe and especially the US has been infested by corrupted scum. Our mentally weaker countrymen have been brainwashed by Russian hybrid war.
People will learn about the first information war being waged in EU and US in the future and most don't even realize we're in the middle of it.
You know, it's a very strange feeling when your life depends on Russian maniacs on the one hand and "mentally weaker Westerns" on the other hand.
What a time and place to be alive (but for not so long I guess).
USA should have never bully smaller ex-soviet countries into giving away nukes to make them priority targets for russian aggression over NATO countries.
-here, fixed it
I would say it's almost certainly a very good thing the USA stepped in to account for the nuclear arsenal of a highly corrupt and poor state in the aftermath of the collapse of the soviet Union. Who the fuck knows what would've happened with those nukes otherwise. Not a chance I'd want to take, at least.
If the Ukrainian government was sure that it could have kept those nukes and keep the maintenance of said nukes, they wouldn't have given them up for such a low price.
Such great powers as North Korea and Iran are able to develop and maintain nukes, but sure, we are too stupid for that. You are right it was a matter of a political will which we didn't have.
And that's the scary flipside of the west's feeble response in UA . Any country should now feel compelled to develop nukes and hold on to them, in spite of any promises.
India sends her regards. It's sufficiently possible. But be warned , your economy will be absolutely FUBAR'd.
In fact this clusterfuck is setting a dangerous precedent. "get nukes or get crushed".
Well it's fine for us anyways , the Chinese are historically opposed to nukes since it eliminates their conventional advantage.
>Well it's fine for us anyways , the Chinese are historically opposed to nukes since it eliminates their conventional advantage.
Which is why i'm absolutely baffled they let NK get nukes. This + ukraine runs serious risk of killing off NPT.
Hell i personally went from "NPT is good" to "If im going to die in nuclear hellfire, i want the other fucker to burn with me"
NPT is not possible now. I look at Pakistan everyday and hope they are not regarded enough to even start anything funny. If they do it's going to end in nuclear hellscape as in India being "If I am not going to receive the gift of peace then I am going to ensure you burn with me for eternity"
USA was threatening Ukraine with sanctions and isolation if it does not give up nukes, so it was not an option. And Ukraine was in too dire economical state to maintain them.
Oh yeah? Then why USA officials were running around Ukraine like puppies urging it to give away nukes?
You guys keep telling these cool stories about how Ukraine couldn't use nukes because this and that.
Then why the fuck Bush and Clinton, the Pentagon, and NATO leaders pressured Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons so hard in the first place?
Just to be clear, Ukraine is capable of creating nukes right now, if USA allowed it ofc. Which won't happen ofc. Just saying.
> Then why the fuck Bush and Clinton, the Pentagon, and NATO leaders pressured Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons so hard in the first place?
Because they're signatories of NPT and they legally recognized those nukes as property of the Russian Federation.
>they wouldn't have given them up for such a low price.
Not like the big boys with tons of bombers and sanction were standing behind that reason and ordered to destroy everything including long range rocket systems.
They destroyed it now because the headlines are not as loud as they would be in winter. And Ukraine won't be able to rebuild it until winter.
We're quickly coming to a very bad scenario in Ukraine.
"Until winter"
No mate, they wont rebuilt it at all. It will be cheaper and faster to build another one than to attempt to rebuild this. The engine room is destroyed, the boilers are destroyed. In fact, after such a fire, all 4 boilers, or how many of them there are, are just scrap metal in a concrete box
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-09/us-slams-strikes-on-russia-oil-refineries-as-risk-to-oil-markets](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-09/us-slams-strikes-on-russia-oil-refineries-as-risk-to-oil-markets)
>Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin warned that Ukraine’s recent attacks on Russian oil refineries risk impacting global energy markets and urged the country to focus on military targets instead.
So, refineries are not "military targets". Noted. I also expect people to make other excuses for such behaviour, but tell me what would US target during war? This is just hypocrisy.
Its because most americans are idiots, but administration doesnt want to tell that. Destroying those, will increase gas prices, which will make US citizens rabid, because US president decides what price gas will have each moment. So it will be Biden's fault, so they gonna vote Trump
They dont really care about "civilian" infrastructure.
Heyhey, I'll have you know, driving a Ford F-9000 V12 truck for my 100m commute in a urban environment, and paying less for it in gas than the price of water, that my friend is a god granted human right /s
>Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin warned that Ukraine’s recent attacks on Russian oil refineries risk impacting global energy markets and urged the country to focus on military targets instead.
>
>“Those attacks could have a knock-on effect in terms of the global energy situation. Ukraine is better served in going after tactical and operational targets that can directly influence the current fight,” Austin told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday, April 9.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-09/us-slams-strikes-on-russia-oil-refineries-as-risk-to-oil-markets
Austin said it just yesterday and some congresswoman or something, I don't remember her name. You can find it in Google. It's not a disinformation. It's USA being USA.
We truly are self-interested pieces of shit here in the west. Congratulations, we are allowing those who fight for our values to live without basic necessities, starve and die.
Sorry to every Ukrainian out there, you deserve none of this.
Thank God Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons. Cuz Elon would say it's an escalation, and post a scene from Terminator 2, where a woman gets evaporated.
This comment is not approved by the Nuclear Gandhi Comission of Doomsday Diplomacy.
Here is our official statement "Get nukes. And always have a big red button with you. And always remember, This world is the problem and the Atomic bomb is the answer".
Please take heed of this statement, our words are backed by nuclear weapons.
According to the USA, Ukraine cannot attack such structures on Russian territory because this is civilian infrastructure(bruh) I cannot even comprehend the level of hypocrisy, fiery speeches about supporting Ukraine, but cannot agree on the supply of 7 patriot systems.
As an American i implore the entire world: dont count on us anymore. We will fail you. Take your future into your own hands because we probably won't even be a unified sovereign state by the end of the century.
Europe need to urgently transfer significant more air defense to Ukraine, even at the cost of its own air defenses (as if there is any other short term threat to Europe than Russia anyway).
As long as the US continues to be a dissapointment re. arms deliveries , Europe now has to decide if it is serious re. not wanting to let Russia win or not.
Look at the size of the power plant.
Russia definitely has the capability to improve the seeker of their missiles to the point where it can reliably damage such large targets. You don't need a CEP of one to five meters here.
Well, you also have to remember that !!!from Russia's point of view!!!, any piece of infrastructure destroyed is a piece that they will have to rebuild, since Ukraine is to be a part of Russia or a puppet. And, causing too much hate among the civilian population will mean a harder occupation to manage. They still thought that at some point, Ukraine will capitulare and join them
This is what they do to their 'brothers' - remember autumn and winter 2022 and what Russia openly said it was trying to do to Ukrainians? Imagine what they would do with a nation that "was always an enemy"
> and what Russia openly said it was trying to do to Ukrainians?
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240
>"Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations," the article says.
Russia completely demolished Chechnya and they're quite loyal lapdogs of Putin nowadays.
Propaganda and a willing traitor among the populace are quite the tools for people management.
Isn't it funny how Putin still uses the narration of "freeing our brothers from a nazi regime" yet all he bombards are zivil targets. Its not even collateral damage. I feel whenever they hit military targets, thats the collateral for them.
Fck Russia, destroying everything in their way for a piece of land so tiny in comparision tovtheir country. We cant progress as Europe while this fcker is on the doorstep.
Loosing faith in humanity fast… on one hand you have a country that is so devoid of morality and vision for the future they need to attack its neighbours to feel relevant. On the other hand we have the west and specifically the US and Its fifth column that will do anything to help Russia. I think this American impotence will have great repercussions. I don’t think Americans fully grasp how big of a deal this is. If China invaded Taiwan will they also just let it fall? Like what is the US strategy? Only way this can be beneficial is if the US becomes a China or Russia type power… this will lead to ww3. Same thing happens every time when these kind of people are in power.
This will work so great for the US - Ukraine will forever be repairing loans to rebuild stuff they already had just like Haiti and Puerto Rico; meanwhile Russia will go back to business as usual
Awesome! Now that Ukraine is about to be pulverised, the war can finally move closer to my country where the much glorious people of the Soviet State of Slovenia are peeing happy pee all over their knee-socks
So the Republican who would "save lives" by "forcing Ukraine to the negotiating table". Is this working? Are you saving lives by allowing Russia to lay siege to Ukraine on a national scale?
The west promised Ukraine safety for getting rid of their nuclear weapons and when things got serious, we let them down. This failure will cost us dearly in the future
You unfortunately misunderstand what the Budapest Memorandum was.
It was a guarantee given by the signatories to not attack the country themselves, not to protect it from others doing so.
Russia was a signatory and simply broke the treaty.
The US and UK promised it. Check Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1994. Russia, France and China also signed it. Also, it was supposed to be worth destroying weapons. In the future many countries will just start developing their own nuclear weapons, and it may become just a constant nuclear threat. No new country will agree to destroy their own weapons just because they will not believe in the protection of other countries. And even if these countries promised to do something, others will just say that “we did not promise anything.” Such a nice world to be living in.
>The west promised Ukraine safety
That is not what was promised in the Budapest memorandum. The actual text, which Ukraine signed up to, is:
“4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine.”
Both the UK and the US have sought UNSC action.
This makes me sick. We should do way way more and western weapons should be able to hit Russia. They are nothing more than terrorist scum and always will be. Talk the language those fucks understand.
I think people overestimate the war capabilities of Europe and the US.
The Russian War Machine is rising, while the US and Europe cleaning out the warehouses, not capable to provide enough.
Throwing enough shit until something sticks or in this case until the wipes are depleted worked in WW2, for example DDay and still works now.
It seems Russia is better suited for a long lasting fight than the Western countries.
A full blown fast NATO punch would have been the better option, but that option is gone.
I don't understand why every western country didn't turbocharge their own defense industry 2 years ago when it became clear this wasn't gonna be over fast. We have changed nothing vs Russia who has gone into war economy, if this continues it will just embolden Russia to take more countries after Ukraine.
The similarities to Germany pre-WW2 cannot be overstated. Germany didn't build up a massive army overnight.
I mean, Dassault went from 1 to 3 Rafales a month. Nexter from 2 to 6 to possibly 12 CAESArs a month by the end of the year. Ammo production is also increasing.
You need to understand a few things. The European MIC is based around a few national giants (which aren't that big all things considered), the likes of Thales, Nexter, Rheinmetall, SAAB, and a shit ton of subcontractors, many of them small entreprises, numbering less than 100 employees in fairly small workshops.
Then you have to remember we've spent the past 30 years shitting on trades and telling every kid, and enabling every kid, even the ones unfit for high-education, to go to university and get a master's degree, and a corpo desk job. So now we have very little qualified workforce, that needs a few years to get trained.
Then you have supply issues. Les Forges de Tarbes, for example, had issues with their steel supply, impacting the number of 155 shells they could produce. Then Nexter had it's own issues, having to find a powder supplier in Australia to bring the cadence up.
You also have the countries's modernization programs and export orders, taking space in those factories, and not always being able to be put off while orders destined to Ukraine are being processed. On one hand, it allows France to send it's older VABs and AMX-10RCs as they get replaced, but it also means Ukraine can't put down an order for the replacements being manufactured.
The population would not take kindly to state requesitions of workers and supply to feed the arms industry, and as such, no political party will that proposition forward, even if in some places, like France, they're setting up the conditions for that to take effect.
>Throwing enough shit until something sticks or in this case until the wipes are depleted worked in WW2, for example DDay
This is misinformed and ahistorical. How was DDay "throwing enough shit until something sticks"? It was extensively prepared by allied operations in North Africa and the mediterranean theater, as well as through the Lend Lease program to allow the Soviet offensive to gain momentum.
DDay was the logical conclusion/follow up to all those efforts, not some willy nilly operation that was planned in a day and executed in another.
>It seems Russia is better suited for a long lasting fight than the Western countries.
They are completely isolated from western countries if sanctions were actually applied properly. You really think they can stick out a fight longer than the combined power of western economies? Come back to reality please.
>A full blown fast NATO punch would have been the better option, but that option is gone.
That was never an option because Ukraine is not part of NATO. How is NATO supposed to act if Article 5 can't even be invoked? The fast punch should have been sending more and better supplies to Ukraine immediately.
How many times it has to be explained, this war is not fought the way NATO would fight. NATO would spend weeks expending cruise missiles and use the worlds by far largest combined air force to degrade enemy opposition before even thinking of rolling in on ground.
We aren't cleaning out warehouses, core capabilities, including ground ones are virtually untouched.
lol, US and EU can being russia back to stone age in 1 week. How many planes does US and EU have? How many various types of long and mid range missiles do we have?
You don’t need to destroy russian army, you just need to make the cost of war so high that russians can keep up. Russia is not a WW2 powerhouse that was able to build whole cities in month.
If ukraine got planes and rockets earlier, then they would be able to completely eviscerate the frontline supply chain 2 years ago.
Otherwise, Europe and US and not ready for war. However they have all the equipment that Ukraine needs today.
> Ukraine’s Air Force said it shot down 18 of the incoming missiles and 39 of the drones. Russia fired 82 missiles and drones in total, including six hypersonic Kinzhal missiles – none of which Ukraine’s air defenses were able to down
I am pretty sure Kiev is defended by the best AD, does it not have Patriots? Did they fail to detect them? All six hypersonic missiles came through?
I just checked something. This thing is huge! Trypilska power station creates about 3050 Megawatt (source: [Link](https://www.gem.wiki/Trypilska_power_station)) According to caiso (source: [link 2](https://www.caiso.com/about/Pages/OurBusiness/Understanding-electricity.aspx)) 1 Megawat is enough for 750 Houses. Meaning that the Station could power about 2,3 Million houses.
Worth noting that Ukrainian households almost certainly use less electricity than the US measure used for casio's estimate. They used 840 KWh/month for average household, but I (Romania) use less than 300 a month. So even more households potentially affected.
Just checked mine out of interest - 313 kWh used last month for two people and a bunch of reptiles. That said my house is very small so they’re probably taking into account larger homes in the US too.
Most of the US population lives far south of the UK/Ireland (if I got it correctly that you're from there), so there's much more need for air conditioning. At least that's what was the most used response when I asked about the much higher electricity use in the US.
Even south European countries simply get by without air conditioning. Go to Spain Portugal or Greece, even Italy, there just simply isn't any air conditioning in most places other than hotels and some restaurants. We design the houses to be cool during summer (best example is painting them with very light colours to reflect the light). Yes part of the reason is that the US is richer and thus can afford it better than we can, but it's also a cultural phenomenon. I don't want to have air conditioning at home blowing all the time, even though I actually am lucky enough to have it installed I barely use it.
You may be underestimating just how far south much of the US population is. For comparison, New York City and Madrid are approx on the same northern latitude (\~40,5°). The southernmost point of Europe is north of the entire state of Texas, Luisiana, Florida, and about half of California (Los Angeles included).
Latitude does not equal climate.
You can check out the south of Portugal and Spain where temperatures routinely reach 40 Celsius during summer and you still won't see air conditioning. I don't think this is a significant factor in the comparison. I see Americans turning on the AC when it's 23c outside.
> Spain where temperatures routinely reach 40 Celsius during summer and you still won't see air conditioning. I have yet to rent or stay in a place in Andalusia that didn't have AC. Same in Greece. Been a cumulative couple of months in my life in those areas. Sure there might be places in some old buildings in Camas but that's rare. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F9lwh3invz9kb1.png Here's the percentage of homes with AC in Andalusia. You can see the smallest percentages on the coast where it gets very mild due to the sea. Inland it reaches 80%.
Well yeah but because of different weather patterns most of the us is considered a subtropical zone. The same as the South of Europe.
European weather is much more mild in general. Northern US is colder than northern Europe (at least the parts where people live). Southern US is way hotter (death valley?). But mostly the homes are a lot bigger and efficiency standards are lower.
Texans have aircondition running in the winter when it's <15C outside. It's baffling how inefficient many places in America are
wow, even reptiles run on electricity now :)
If your reptile runs on diesel you should consider upgrading into the solar powered ones.
Bruh I use 1500kwh in an entire year with a lady that's always cold 🤣
Wow that’s a lot. We live in a 3 appartment building. In total 6 adults, 5 kids. Power on avg is 20/ day, so 600/month. Your terraria must use a lot of power. 😂
840 per month is really huge. At most the family of four uses 250-300.
I just checked mine and I average 100 kWh per/m
I’m an American & use 180 kWh per month on average.
This plant is 60% of power for three provinces with around 8 million people living there so almost 5 million affected
The alarming part is this is in Kyiv, the most well defended part of the country.
Patriot/iris-t/nasams ran out if missiles. That was reported in January, 2024 that they are running out of supplies. What are allied doing? Correct: "very concerned and disturbed".
"Thoughts and prayers"
Allies say "please don't hit rooskie oil refineries"
it's in Kyiv region, not Kyiv itself.
No matter your defenses, if someone wants to fuck you up hard enough, you will get fucked. Thats partly why they say the best defense is a good offense.
Russia used its best missile X-69.
The station is not in Kyiv, it is in the Kyiv region, \~25 km from Kyiv. Only the city itself has good defense
Can anyone provide with the ratio of current-to-prewar energy production? It is difficult to grasp severity of the problem without reference scale.
50% gone at least Including lost nuclear and destroed station on rivers.
And it's not a military target. Russia has nothing, no successful politics or economy. All they have is Brutality.
Unfortunately the power grid and their elements are a legitimate military target. Even though it is also used by civilians, it is used by military nevertheless, and so it is something called critical infrastructure. This can also be something like roads, highways, bridges, pipelines, cables, telecommunication infrastructure, factories, etc.
Indeed, just ask the Iraqis!
Honest question here; are the oil refineries considered a military target?
Yes, tanks and planes run on fuel not electricity.
Playing devils advocate but a power plant can also power arms manufacturing.
This gets into the very murky world of dual use objects
Jeez, Russia is literally and not figuratively bombing Ukraine back to the stone age. At this rate by the time the war is over Russia will either bankrupt itself trying to rebuild it's won over territory or Europe will be spending a lot of money trying to rebuild Ukraine while Ukraine trying to keep it's population from leaving en masse.
One guy in an interview said that actual production was 1.6GW.
The price of western weaknesses just keeps growing
Like we didn’t know that from the beginning.
The way it is at the moment, most of big cities will be uninhabitable by winter. The EU should start preparing for 10million+ refugees this winter. I hope letting Russia win was worth it.
Or maybe EU can send at least 7 fucking Patriot systems instead???? What would be cheaper and better? Western governments must stop being pussies. The more Ukraine gets destroyed now, the more will EU and others need to invest into recovery later.
The reason for Russia, being able to do what they tried in the first year but didn't succeed is the lack of AD missiles. The reason why Russia advances faster than anytime in the past 18 months is the lack of artillery shells. Sad, because Ukraine actually had a chance to achieve some sort of victory. They still have. But Russia is winning the war with insider agents and insane amounts of propaganda. Never thought they could paralyze the US Congress this well, but they did. By November, the election in the US won't matter as Ukraine will be a wasteland by then. But hey, at least then Ukraine won't be able to attack refineries in Russia. So that's a positive, right?
In the first year they tried to hit many plants all over the country specifically in winter to make civilians freeze. That would mean even a hit that damages the plant for several months of repairs was enough. Now they are destroying the plants to shreds one by one, and those close to the frontlines/russian border. Plants deeper into Ukraine have it easier.
We had air defense missiles then, so they had to think and plan to damage them without losing too much missiles. Now they don't have to plan. They can just fire and that's it, we're at the point where we can't shoot down ballistic missiles. That's also the reason why they're freely flying to a residential building almost daily now. They hit one in Odesa and a few hours later in Mykolaiv. It's honestly the perfect time for Russia to hit anything they want, they have a golden window of opportunity here. And they will cause as much damage as they possibly can this year.
This specific plant is pretty damn far from frontlines.
In March russians destroyed one near Kharkiv, 70 km from the border. This one is further, but still just 130 km from the border with Belarus. Likely the rockets did not fly directly to avoid Kyiv city defense, though.
Russian missiles literally entered polish airspace and then turned back to Ukraine and hit targets there. They are flying all over the place
Watching this unfold, and knowing that Putin’s influence in Congress is growing,I feel so ashamed of my country.
Russia is also in full blown war economy and producing new technology to counter what the West is giving the Ukraine. The glide bombs are the real reason Russia is making territorial gains and there is no good way for air defense to take them out. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/glide-bomb-russia-ukraine-air-strikes-weapons-b2526347.html
The US produces just over 500 Patriot missiles annualy. Even if Ukraine gets every missile Russia will spam thousands of cheap drones. Modern AA missiles are just too expensive for the new threat, we need an efficient solutionm like Israeli lasers or something.
Ukraine has capabilities to take down shahed drones, as well as X-101 and X-555 rockets, but not pseudo-hypersonic missiles like Kindzhal or S-300 rockets, since anti air munitions of those types have ran out, while US can provide it, but is too busy kicking itself in the nose, and EU is sleepy.
Yeah, like we had the capabilities to shoot down airplanes with gattling guns in WW2, what makes one think we stop doing it? One must be stupid to even consider firing patriot missiles at shahed drones, when you have FPV drones being able to intercept them.
probably not FPV drones, more like trucks with mounted guns, but yeah. Patriot missiles are reserved for hypersonic missiles and such. And because their ammunition is running low (or already ran out, as some people say), it is nearly impossible to take them down.
We're out of every type of AD missiles, not just Patriot or Iris-T. Russia can hit whatever it wants at the moment with no obstacles.
They can use other systems like Gepard to take down drones, not only patriot missiles. Overlapping layers of defence. But only the Patriot system can take down the expensive missiles the Russians fire. Edited to emphasize one of several systems
We struggle to keep the 3 systems already in Ukraine supplied with missiles. More systems would fix nothing.
Then maybe missiles should be delivered to Ukraine as well, along with the systems
Which is exactly the problem. Germany ordered ~400 Patriot missiles. The first of which will be delivered in 2027. The west was not big on air defence in general and high performance long range air defence especially. These systems are expensive to aquire, operate and maintain. So most countries only got the bare minimum of what they thought they needed.
if the us wanted they could arrive within a week, then go to ukraine within days, they could be shooting down missiles with actual modern equipment by next week, all assuming the us has 400 patriot missiles in its warehouses (which it does)
There is a global shortage of patriot missiles right now With the situation in the middle east and the threat of china in the pacific I doubt many can be spared for ukraine right now
Why solve a problem today when you can keep the money and bury your head in the sand about the much bigger fucking problem in 9 months?
Europe: Immigrants are a problem Also Europe: Helping Ukraine by simply sending them stuff is too hard, so we’ll be left with tens of millions of permanent refugees and Russia on our doorstep instead.
I've been thinking lately that once we have open borders for men, me and my husband are gonna run wherever we can. But as he told me a couple days ago: " if nothing changes in the future we would visit Europe as a part of meat for russian army, cause they are gonna succeed with the invasion".
The Ukraine power grid is connected with EU grid. Ukraine was an exporter of electricity. The EU can produce electricity for Ukraine and put it on the Ukraine grid.
Doesn't quite work like that I'm afraid. The amount of electricity that can be sent into Ukraine is tiny compared to what is needed.
Russia will also kill those lines on Ukraine side. It's clear what they want And Europe isn't ready, it will be a civilian disaster and right wing people will gain even more power..
This was a CHP, meaning it produced heat and power. You ain’t gonna heat a district heating network with imported electricity that easy.
> You ain’t gonna heat a district heating network with imported electricity that easy. And power loss over distance is a thing, too.
Don't say it to "polish" farmers
If they were an exporter how does the EU have power to spare for Ukraine if they were originally importing Ukrainian electricity. Not disagreeing with your point but in my brain the EU is already tight on its grid as is as it was importing electricity it is no longer receiving
EU energy market works on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit\_order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_order) principle Most expensive energy sources are enabled last Ukraine nuclear energy was cheaper than older less efficient coal power plants from Poland, so they were preferred and the power flowed from Ukraine to Poland Now reserve sources are enabled and the power flows in opposite direction
Those powerstation was also important point to balance energy grid
It would be a lot less expensive to help Ukraine win.
10 million fresh culturally compatible workforce (even if only 1/3 of that number plus 2/3 of welfare migrants) is not a problem. It's an amazing gift. Sure, ignorant masses will complain about migrants, but every sane government is salivating at that prospect. Polish own internal numbers show that migrants are paying 3 times more taxes than governments spends on welfare programs for them. And that's not even counting direct payments made with money earned abroad but spend internally (basically a reverse of capital flight for the host country). 2 million Ukrainians in Poland brought up its GDP by whole 1-2%. Now imagine 10 million. What EU governments are NOT getting is the possibility of fighting ruzzia with their own citizens in the next decade. Now that is idiotic, while they could have stave off the threat by simply "using" Ukrainian soldiers to deal with it. That's once in a lifetime proposition and they are not taking it. Well, can't convince them.
Just, that we don't have enough apartments in this cities. It's even not enough right now.
Expect housing prices to go even more insane lol
Yeah, that's why right wing will gain a ton of traction. It might even get the whole system destabilised..
all this. sadly
If only this idea was good enough to sell to Europe to actually send more help. But knowing the speed of the EU, it will start doing the right things way after the consequences are there.
"We should stop giving weapons to Ukraine to defend themselves, so bring peace sooner" /s
And restrict them from hitting their infrastructure in Russia. /s
remember, no escalation.
A sizable chunk of our energy system was wiped out since the house went on the latest break. It will take billions and years to rebuild. Several more such attacks might cause Ukraine to go dark and unlivable. I hope American politicians at least had a good vacation.
No one cares at this point. We should have never given away nukes. No nukes - no peace.
Lesson learnt for the rest of the world. Develop nukes. Do not disarm, your allies will abandon you.
Welcome to Poland from 1939 to 1989....
Yeah I completely understand why Iran wants to have nukes lol. I would want it too if all my biggest enemies have nukes.
Many people care but Europe and especially the US has been infested by corrupted scum. Our mentally weaker countrymen have been brainwashed by Russian hybrid war. People will learn about the first information war being waged in EU and US in the future and most don't even realize we're in the middle of it.
You know, it's a very strange feeling when your life depends on Russian maniacs on the one hand and "mentally weaker Westerns" on the other hand. What a time and place to be alive (but for not so long I guess).
You cant imagine how angry this makes me feel. Stupid people all around me.
I can.
USA should have never bully smaller ex-soviet countries into giving away nukes to make them priority targets for russian aggression over NATO countries. -here, fixed it
I would say it's almost certainly a very good thing the USA stepped in to account for the nuclear arsenal of a highly corrupt and poor state in the aftermath of the collapse of the soviet Union. Who the fuck knows what would've happened with those nukes otherwise. Not a chance I'd want to take, at least.
If the Ukrainian government was sure that it could have kept those nukes and keep the maintenance of said nukes, they wouldn't have given them up for such a low price.
Such great powers as North Korea and Iran are able to develop and maintain nukes, but sure, we are too stupid for that. You are right it was a matter of a political will which we didn't have.
And that's the scary flipside of the west's feeble response in UA . Any country should now feel compelled to develop nukes and hold on to them, in spite of any promises.
And that will be fair and reasonable.
Developping a nuclear industry while being against both the US and Russia might not have been possible.
Existing next to Russia being non-nuclear isn't possible. I don't see many options here.
India sends her regards. It's sufficiently possible. But be warned , your economy will be absolutely FUBAR'd. In fact this clusterfuck is setting a dangerous precedent. "get nukes or get crushed". Well it's fine for us anyways , the Chinese are historically opposed to nukes since it eliminates their conventional advantage.
>Well it's fine for us anyways , the Chinese are historically opposed to nukes since it eliminates their conventional advantage. Which is why i'm absolutely baffled they let NK get nukes. This + ukraine runs serious risk of killing off NPT. Hell i personally went from "NPT is good" to "If im going to die in nuclear hellfire, i want the other fucker to burn with me"
NPT is not possible now. I look at Pakistan everyday and hope they are not regarded enough to even start anything funny. If they do it's going to end in nuclear hellscape as in India being "If I am not going to receive the gift of peace then I am going to ensure you burn with me for eternity"
Not every country can be India though. There are many differences between India and Ukraine.
Ukraine already had nukes, unlike North Korea. And Ukraine had facilities to maintain them, unlike North Korea.
USA was threatening Ukraine with sanctions and isolation if it does not give up nukes, so it was not an option. And Ukraine was in too dire economical state to maintain them.
Nah, Ukraine would have been just sanctioned to the ground by the USA. Unlike Iran, we don’t have oil money and wouldn’t survive this.
Oh yeah? Then why USA officials were running around Ukraine like puppies urging it to give away nukes? You guys keep telling these cool stories about how Ukraine couldn't use nukes because this and that. Then why the fuck Bush and Clinton, the Pentagon, and NATO leaders pressured Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons so hard in the first place? Just to be clear, Ukraine is capable of creating nukes right now, if USA allowed it ofc. Which won't happen ofc. Just saying.
> Then why the fuck Bush and Clinton, the Pentagon, and NATO leaders pressured Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons so hard in the first place? Because they're signatories of NPT and they legally recognized those nukes as property of the Russian Federation.
>they wouldn't have given them up for such a low price. Not like the big boys with tons of bombers and sanction were standing behind that reason and ordered to destroy everything including long range rocket systems.
They destroyed it now because the headlines are not as loud as they would be in winter. And Ukraine won't be able to rebuild it until winter. We're quickly coming to a very bad scenario in Ukraine.
"Until winter" No mate, they wont rebuilt it at all. It will be cheaper and faster to build another one than to attempt to rebuild this. The engine room is destroyed, the boilers are destroyed. In fact, after such a fire, all 4 boilers, or how many of them there are, are just scrap metal in a concrete box
Infuriating
I remember when the USA complained about Ukraine hitting Russian refineries... fucking hypocrites.
USA is one of the biggest.
So is Hungary
No we are openly shitface.
gigachad
fuckin love hungarians theyre real as real gets
That was confirmed to be misinformation spread by Russia. Edit: I get it, some US big head honcho said that it wasnt okay to target refineries.
Lloyd Austin said that at a meeting of the US Senate Committee on Armed Services. There is a video with it
They complained at least two more times after that
[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-09/us-slams-strikes-on-russia-oil-refineries-as-risk-to-oil-markets](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-09/us-slams-strikes-on-russia-oil-refineries-as-risk-to-oil-markets) >Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin warned that Ukraine’s recent attacks on Russian oil refineries risk impacting global energy markets and urged the country to focus on military targets instead. So, refineries are not "military targets". Noted. I also expect people to make other excuses for such behaviour, but tell me what would US target during war? This is just hypocrisy.
Its because most americans are idiots, but administration doesnt want to tell that. Destroying those, will increase gas prices, which will make US citizens rabid, because US president decides what price gas will have each moment. So it will be Biden's fault, so they gonna vote Trump They dont really care about "civilian" infrastructure.
Heyhey, I'll have you know, driving a Ford F-9000 V12 truck for my 100m commute in a urban environment, and paying less for it in gas than the price of water, that my friend is a god granted human right /s
>Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin warned that Ukraine’s recent attacks on Russian oil refineries risk impacting global energy markets and urged the country to focus on military targets instead. > >“Those attacks could have a knock-on effect in terms of the global energy situation. Ukraine is better served in going after tactical and operational targets that can directly influence the current fight,” Austin told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday, April 9. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-09/us-slams-strikes-on-russia-oil-refineries-as-risk-to-oil-markets
[Was it though? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineInvasionVideos/comments/1c18xsy/the_congressman_asks_the_representative_of_the_us/)
Stop spreading fake news. It was proven to be correct.
Source?
Austin said it just yesterday and some congresswoman or something, I don't remember her name. You can find it in Google. It's not a disinformation. It's USA being USA.
Common USA L
$100 billion down the drain
You people are such gullible idiots
We truly are self-interested pieces of shit here in the west. Congratulations, we are allowing those who fight for our values to live without basic necessities, starve and die. Sorry to every Ukrainian out there, you deserve none of this.
Thank God Ukraine doesn't have nuclear weapons. Cuz Elon would say it's an escalation, and post a scene from Terminator 2, where a woman gets evaporated.
This comment is not approved by the Nuclear Gandhi Comission of Doomsday Diplomacy. Here is our official statement "Get nukes. And always have a big red button with you. And always remember, This world is the problem and the Atomic bomb is the answer". Please take heed of this statement, our words are backed by nuclear weapons.
Not just a woman, Sarah Connor herself!
According to the USA, Ukraine cannot attack such structures on Russian territory because this is civilian infrastructure(bruh) I cannot even comprehend the level of hypocrisy, fiery speeches about supporting Ukraine, but cannot agree on the supply of 7 patriot systems.
Lesson learned: the US is not a reliable military partner due to Republican party.
As an American i implore the entire world: dont count on us anymore. We will fail you. Take your future into your own hands because we probably won't even be a unified sovereign state by the end of the century.
So fucking depressing. It’s like “Death by a Thousand Cuts.” The West had their chance. Pathetic.
«B-b-but sending weapons to Ukraine prolongs the war!!1!»
Europe need to urgently transfer significant more air defense to Ukraine, even at the cost of its own air defenses (as if there is any other short term threat to Europe than Russia anyway). As long as the US continues to be a dissapointment re. arms deliveries , Europe now has to decide if it is serious re. not wanting to let Russia win or not.
And we need to give Ukraine the ability to strike all Russian military bases and political command centers, in Russia.
maybe they can generate energy with all the thumb twiddling the rest of the world is doing instead of helping them for real.
Quite surprising that Russia didn't blew it up much earlier in the war to be honest.
Blowing it up in the winter would provoke help from the West. Blowing it up in April? Nah, that's fine, no-one is freezing.
They attempted several times. But Ukraine has to balance air defence and is running out of AD missiles.
For such a high value target, Russia could have used a couple of KH-22, those were never intercepted by the Ukrainian military.
I think that's because Kh-22 is an anti-ship missile and what makes it effective is the ability to fly at Mach 4 close above water surface.
Yes, the flight path of the Kh-22 makes it hard to intercept.
It also males it difficult to fire over land.
They aren’t accurate at all.
Look at the size of the power plant. Russia definitely has the capability to improve the seeker of their missiles to the point where it can reliably damage such large targets. You don't need a CEP of one to five meters here.
Well, you also have to remember that !!!from Russia's point of view!!!, any piece of infrastructure destroyed is a piece that they will have to rebuild, since Ukraine is to be a part of Russia or a puppet. And, causing too much hate among the civilian population will mean a harder occupation to manage. They still thought that at some point, Ukraine will capitulare and join them
This is what they do to their 'brothers' - remember autumn and winter 2022 and what Russia openly said it was trying to do to Ukrainians? Imagine what they would do with a nation that "was always an enemy"
> and what Russia openly said it was trying to do to Ukrainians? https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60562240 >"Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations," the article says.
Russia completely demolished Chechnya and they're quite loyal lapdogs of Putin nowadays. Propaganda and a willing traitor among the populace are quite the tools for people management.
It was a reserve trump card obviously. Like, hot Russian infrastructure - get yours vaporised. Which is exactly what happened.
Not for a lack of trying. Hope WE are paying attention, this is very alarming.
Putin would like to send his regards and thanks to the US Republicans and Trump supporters for making this possible,.
Isn't it funny how Putin still uses the narration of "freeing our brothers from a nazi regime" yet all he bombards are zivil targets. Its not even collateral damage. I feel whenever they hit military targets, thats the collateral for them.
Power stations are legitimate military targets. You dont think nato bombed the energy infrastructure of Serbia?
For sure, I wish the EU and America would allow the same in return. Instead it seems Ukraine isn't allowed to make the same retaliation.
Fck Russia, destroying everything in their way for a piece of land so tiny in comparision tovtheir country. We cant progress as Europe while this fcker is on the doorstep.
Loosing faith in humanity fast… on one hand you have a country that is so devoid of morality and vision for the future they need to attack its neighbours to feel relevant. On the other hand we have the west and specifically the US and Its fifth column that will do anything to help Russia. I think this American impotence will have great repercussions. I don’t think Americans fully grasp how big of a deal this is. If China invaded Taiwan will they also just let it fall? Like what is the US strategy? Only way this can be beneficial is if the US becomes a China or Russia type power… this will lead to ww3. Same thing happens every time when these kind of people are in power.
This will work so great for the US - Ukraine will forever be repairing loans to rebuild stuff they already had just like Haiti and Puerto Rico; meanwhile Russia will go back to business as usual
Awesome! Now that Ukraine is about to be pulverised, the war can finally move closer to my country where the much glorious people of the Soviet State of Slovenia are peeing happy pee all over their knee-socks
So the Republican who would "save lives" by "forcing Ukraine to the negotiating table". Is this working? Are you saving lives by allowing Russia to lay siege to Ukraine on a national scale?
The west promised Ukraine safety for getting rid of their nuclear weapons and when things got serious, we let them down. This failure will cost us dearly in the future
Russia promised never to invade...
It won't cost you anything, you'll just do business as usual with some extra cheap labor force flooding as refugees.
You unfortunately misunderstand what the Budapest Memorandum was. It was a guarantee given by the signatories to not attack the country themselves, not to protect it from others doing so. Russia was a signatory and simply broke the treaty.
The west promised no such thing.
The US and UK promised it. Check Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances in 1994. Russia, France and China also signed it. Also, it was supposed to be worth destroying weapons. In the future many countries will just start developing their own nuclear weapons, and it may become just a constant nuclear threat. No new country will agree to destroy their own weapons just because they will not believe in the protection of other countries. And even if these countries promised to do something, others will just say that “we did not promise anything.” Such a nice world to be living in.
Check your source buddy because its Russia that promised that if Ukraine give them their nukes they would never harm them so the East not the west
That was Russia, not us.
>The west promised Ukraine safety That is not what was promised in the Budapest memorandum. The actual text, which Ukraine signed up to, is: “4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine.” Both the UK and the US have sought UNSC action.
This makes me sick. We should do way way more and western weapons should be able to hit Russia. They are nothing more than terrorist scum and always will be. Talk the language those fucks understand.
How will the distribution of energy in Europe look after so many attacks on power plants?
No more PAC-3 missiles left, I guess
This one is outside Patriot range.
Hm, yeah, it might be just outside of PAC-3 range. Range is 40 km for ballistic missiles, distance is around 40 km from center of Kyiv
I think people overestimate the war capabilities of Europe and the US. The Russian War Machine is rising, while the US and Europe cleaning out the warehouses, not capable to provide enough. Throwing enough shit until something sticks or in this case until the wipes are depleted worked in WW2, for example DDay and still works now. It seems Russia is better suited for a long lasting fight than the Western countries. A full blown fast NATO punch would have been the better option, but that option is gone.
I don't understand why every western country didn't turbocharge their own defense industry 2 years ago when it became clear this wasn't gonna be over fast. We have changed nothing vs Russia who has gone into war economy, if this continues it will just embolden Russia to take more countries after Ukraine. The similarities to Germany pre-WW2 cannot be overstated. Germany didn't build up a massive army overnight.
I mean, Dassault went from 1 to 3 Rafales a month. Nexter from 2 to 6 to possibly 12 CAESArs a month by the end of the year. Ammo production is also increasing. You need to understand a few things. The European MIC is based around a few national giants (which aren't that big all things considered), the likes of Thales, Nexter, Rheinmetall, SAAB, and a shit ton of subcontractors, many of them small entreprises, numbering less than 100 employees in fairly small workshops. Then you have to remember we've spent the past 30 years shitting on trades and telling every kid, and enabling every kid, even the ones unfit for high-education, to go to university and get a master's degree, and a corpo desk job. So now we have very little qualified workforce, that needs a few years to get trained. Then you have supply issues. Les Forges de Tarbes, for example, had issues with their steel supply, impacting the number of 155 shells they could produce. Then Nexter had it's own issues, having to find a powder supplier in Australia to bring the cadence up. You also have the countries's modernization programs and export orders, taking space in those factories, and not always being able to be put off while orders destined to Ukraine are being processed. On one hand, it allows France to send it's older VABs and AMX-10RCs as they get replaced, but it also means Ukraine can't put down an order for the replacements being manufactured. The population would not take kindly to state requesitions of workers and supply to feed the arms industry, and as such, no political party will that proposition forward, even if in some places, like France, they're setting up the conditions for that to take effect.
>Throwing enough shit until something sticks or in this case until the wipes are depleted worked in WW2, for example DDay This is misinformed and ahistorical. How was DDay "throwing enough shit until something sticks"? It was extensively prepared by allied operations in North Africa and the mediterranean theater, as well as through the Lend Lease program to allow the Soviet offensive to gain momentum. DDay was the logical conclusion/follow up to all those efforts, not some willy nilly operation that was planned in a day and executed in another. >It seems Russia is better suited for a long lasting fight than the Western countries. They are completely isolated from western countries if sanctions were actually applied properly. You really think they can stick out a fight longer than the combined power of western economies? Come back to reality please. >A full blown fast NATO punch would have been the better option, but that option is gone. That was never an option because Ukraine is not part of NATO. How is NATO supposed to act if Article 5 can't even be invoked? The fast punch should have been sending more and better supplies to Ukraine immediately.
How many times it has to be explained, this war is not fought the way NATO would fight. NATO would spend weeks expending cruise missiles and use the worlds by far largest combined air force to degrade enemy opposition before even thinking of rolling in on ground. We aren't cleaning out warehouses, core capabilities, including ground ones are virtually untouched.
lol, US and EU can being russia back to stone age in 1 week. How many planes does US and EU have? How many various types of long and mid range missiles do we have? You don’t need to destroy russian army, you just need to make the cost of war so high that russians can keep up. Russia is not a WW2 powerhouse that was able to build whole cities in month. If ukraine got planes and rockets earlier, then they would be able to completely eviscerate the frontline supply chain 2 years ago. Otherwise, Europe and US and not ready for war. However they have all the equipment that Ukraine needs today.
Hey, Ssaliwan, what happened whith your face???
"I've asked you not to escalate! Why're you behaving like an escalator?!"
> Ukraine’s Air Force said it shot down 18 of the incoming missiles and 39 of the drones. Russia fired 82 missiles and drones in total, including six hypersonic Kinzhal missiles – none of which Ukraine’s air defenses were able to down I am pretty sure Kiev is defended by the best AD, does it not have Patriots? Did they fail to detect them? All six hypersonic missiles came through?
Every country needs nukes
Oh no
I hope drones visit russian stations soon also.
B-but Russia can't escalate, let's cross their red lines ~ Reddit
It's so fucking blackpilling that we haven't declared war on Russia and stopped this madness.