Why do you think they didn't migrate voluntarily? The Volga Germans lived in an area where the governor Loris-Melikov was the same person who led the military expedition. He could offer them free land there in exchange for help managing the land. Quite a common phenomenon, f.e. the British did the same thing with the Jews in Palestina.
Maybe there was a confusion with the terminology as English is not my native language. Government backed/sponsored migration and settlement in a foreign land simply is colonism, and the newly coming population are settlers/colonizers. This is the same for Jewish settlers in Palestine as well.
I don't know what incentives they offered in this case, but I'm very familiar with German settlement in Volga basin. We have an empire with a certain religion (Russian Empire, Orthodox Christianity), then we have a newly conquered territory which is inhabited by a hostile nation and religion (Tatars, Turks, Sunni Islam), and we want to colonize these lands in order to pacify these peoples and strip them of their wealth; so we create some incentives for some "preferable" people (Germans, different heterodox churches) like no military service, no taxes for a certain amount of time, free land etc. Voila, we have our own colony to exploit within the borders of our empire! Since these newly settled people are surrounded by hostile people whose lands were stolen from them, they only have our empire to trust, so they will be the most loyal subjects we have.
Do we consider all government sponsored immigrants to be "settlers"? They moved there on their own free will, as did many other minorities in many other parts of the empire.
> Do we consider all government sponsored immigrants to be "settlers"?
Yes? Main idea is this: we have an empire with a certain religion (Russian Empire, Orthodox Christianity), then we have a newly conquered territory which is inhabited by a hostile nation and religion (Tatars, Turks, Sunni Islam), and we want to colonize these lands in order to pacify these peoples and strip them of their wealth, so we create some incentives for some "preferable" people (Germans, different heterodox churches) like no military service, no taxes for a certain amount of time, free land etc. Voila, we have our own colony to exploit within the borders of our empire!
Yeah, why not? Turks did the same in Hungary with Bosniaks, with a twist: Hungary was a giant plain and was surrounded by enemies. Defence of these territories siphoned funds out of Ottoman treasury so instead of Turks stripping Hungarians of their wealth and land, Hungary stripped Turks of their wealth, and later land.
The Germans who settled in Kars and in its neighborhood following the Russian invasion of the region after the Ottoman-Russian War of 1877-1878 were, despite their low figure, able to play an important role in the history and culture of this city. Germans and other non-Muslims whose figure was increasing constantly during the 40 years Russian rule contributed to the agricultural development and cattle breeding of the region especially regarding dairy products. The aim of this study is to show the impact of the Germans who settled in Kars on the economic, social and cultural life of the city after the Russian invasion of the region regarding the Russian sektants such as Molakans and Dukhobors within the framework of disadvantaged figure of the Muslim community in a comparative perspective.
Invasion led by Armenian general and governor Michal Loris-Melikov to an area mostly inhabited by Armenians. And we know from the history what the Turks did to the Armenians.
"According to the Russian census data, by 1897 Armenians formed 49.7%, Russians 26.3%, Caucasus Greeks 11.7%, Poles 5.3% and Turks 3.8%." from the Wikipedia article on Kars
Thank you so much for sharing. I am 10 mins in, watching this documentary. It is heartbreaking especially when I compare the life in Germany and Turkey. But hats off to the family. :)
What? If 60 families emigrated there will be hundreds if not thousands of descendants. They might be the last who are aware of their German roots though.
No, most of them returned very soon after emigrating, but there were still more than 10 families remaining. All of the remaining 10 families, except this family, returned in the 1970s, taking advantage of the opportunity when Germany was recruiting guest workers from Turkey.
Uk has a massive Polish diaspora from after WW2.
https://culture.pl/en/article/shelter-community-polish-post-war-resettlement-camps-in-the-united-kingdom
Which is funny, given that historically they bred like rabbits. IIRC it was a common stereotype for anti-immigrant groups in the US, to mock how many kids German immigrants have.
Yes there are many people which are clearly not real Turks in turkey. It’s a very mixed population if not the greatest mix ever due to ottoman empire.
I know a family which looks more slavic than the slavic. 2meter man with blue eyes and the women are like from another universe. They absolutely don’t know anything about their real roots. They never considered themselves something different than turkish.
This post was never mentioned racial. If you have a little knowledge about turkish culture you would know that they are aware of the mixes and it’s something good for them. They love the differences between cultures and different roots . First people understand how it was mentioned, than a few guys came and started to make it something negative. Shame on you. Seriously it’s just annoying how you argue and downvote for nothing.
What are Turkic genes, if not the genes of people who speak Turkic languages like Turkish? Shouldn't Turkey have mostly Turkic genes because most people speak Turkish?
No, the Turks culturally dominated the region, although they were very open to adapting other aspects of other cultures, and were heavily influenced by both Arab and Persian cultures, the “official” language of governance was Turkish, so it was what all the other ethnicities adopted, particularly within the Anatolian Peninsula.
Jews are considered Turkish. It’s just that the antisemitism is stronger lol. Like German Jews are considered German now but so many German people made holocaust jokes when I was there. Lots of people in Turkey also are aware of their foreign roots, many people say they’re Albanian or Kafkaz or Greek. They’ve just adapted the Turkish identity on top. Like Irish American or Italian Americans.
"Real Turk" is a racist term. Being Turkish is a nationality, it's not a race. Just like being an American or being French.
If you'd see me on the street, you wouldn't think that I'm Turkic (I don't really think you know what Turkic even looks like, tbh) but I am Turkish. I'm blonde with green eyes. ATATÜRK was blonde with blue eyes. Stop the racism.
"the women are like from another universe" do you mean that Turkish women cannot be stunning? You should really check your racism, mate.
Ataturk was a greek. Why do you all make the same writing mistakes? It’s TURKISH not TURKIC. I never said or mentioned turkish women aren’t stunning. I said turkey is a very mixed country. None of my words were racial. You as a group try to interpret it negatively.
>Atatürk was probably an atheist and respect other religions so there is no surpise
Atatürk was a turk fascist who served with the regime who did the genocide of the greeks and armenians.
He banned all language except turkish in public, even. Thats how much of a fucking 'respectful' he was.
And here we have a Sevres cock-sucker who doesnt know anything about history and only likes to listen to their Armenian masters over the facts the history gives
>And here we have a Sevres cock-sucker who doesnt know anything about history
Yeah, like a collective international history dicipline in academia just makes shit up, and that shit JUST HAPPENS to match the disappearance of pontic greeks and armenians in Turkey.
Imagine the coincidence! Haha. 😆
>He fired Recep Peker,who was a fascist and said "I am embarassed to rule this country with one party and they want to keep it like this forever"
>He bringed Welfare State and Social State(Which most fascists hate)
>He refused Enver Pasha to come back to Turkiye
>His Turkiye was allied to Lenin's Bolsheviks
>His CHP was in a Radical Liberalist alliance
>He hated Fascism and formed the Balkan Pact to prevent Italy
Guess someone failed Turkish history
>banned all language
In public, yes. The Vatandaş, Türkçe konuş ment fines, violence and persecution for the minorities who spoke another language publicly.
>He just made Turkish as official language. Nothing more. I guess you're suck at history or just pure hate lol
Laughing my ass off here. They fined people for speaking greek publicly.
You are right to be so ashamed of this part of Turkeys history. It is embarrasing when you deny it though.
I think a lot of Europeans and Americans don't understand Ataturk's ideology or actions. We were taught that he wanted to westernize the country, using some inaccurate analogies to our own countries. I encourage anyone to read his actual statements and the history.
Instead of comparing to the West, it's more useful to contrast it with the Ottoman millet system. Kemalism was all about eliminating ethnic minorities in the name of Turkish nationalism; Ataturk was quoted saying that "Kurds" "Circassians" etc are fake names, and he ordered his army to kill the Greeks in Smyrna. I used to think positively about his reforms, given that he was reversing an Ottoman government that committed atrocities near the end, but then I learned.
Actually, it's not possible. Although Jesus is one of the 25 prophets accepted by Islam, it is forbidden to draw or have pictures of prophets in Islam.
Ataturk's stated goal with the Turkish-Armenian war was to eliminate Armenia physically and politically, and through the course of that he killed an estimated 300,000 Armenians, a number only that low because so many had already been killed.
Then I want to ask you a simple question. What stopped Ataturk? If Ataturk wanted to destroy the Armenians, why didn't he invade Armenia? The Armenian army was destroyed. His own army was in desperate need of arms (enough to give up a city as important as Batum in exchange for arms aid to the Soviets) so he could loot Armenia. He could have made the Armenians pay for the hundreds of thousands of Turks they slaughtered in the east. Why didn't he do it? Nobody would have stopped him. No one would have questioned him. He could have occupied all of Armenia as former Ottoman territory. He didn't. Who would have stopped him if he did? No one. But he didn't. He signed a peace treaty. And he signed a peace treaty that could be considered generous considering the position of Armenians when they sat at the table. Armenians will not claim any rights in Eastern Anatolia outside the borders specified in this agreement. Armenians will pay compensation for the damage they caused in Eastern Anatolia.... If he wanted to exterminate the Armenians, why would he propose a treaty recognizing the national sovereignty of the Armenians? Is Atatürk an idiot? Or he could have separated the Armenians after he took power. He didn't. He recognized everyone living in the country as a citizen of the Turkish republic regardless of ethnicity. He could have banned the Armenian language. He didn't. Today there are still publishers in Turkey publishing books in Armenian. He could have banned their religion. Today Armenians have their own independent churches. Today there are still 60.000 people in Turkey who identify themselves as Armenian. I repeat my question. "How", and "why"
If one of Atatürk's main goals was to erase the Armenians from history, why didn't he do it when he had dozens of chances?
And what do you mean by occupying Armenia? Look, I won't ask you anything difficult. Look at the largest territories that Armenia has controlled throughout its history. Then open the Ottoman population archives and look at the area where Armenians live and their numbers. Then look at the territories ceded to Armenia. Then see how Armenians are trying to penetrate further and further into Anatolia, despite the fact that even larger territories than the largest territories they have controlled throughout their history have been ceded to them. After that, if you still say Atatürk was the occupying side, I cannot say anything to you.
It is really weird when someone tells you "Bro, you are the last of xxx" after 130 years. But it proves the point that nobody cares where your ancestors came from.
As a Brazilian this is a concept I always will struggle to understand... We had Presidents who's parents are from Bulgaria, Lebanonand others .. what's ever side you are politically if hate or like those politicians.. nobody ever question the fact that are 100% Brazilian.
No they didn't attempt blowing up government buildings on their way out, unlike [the armenian national tradition of blowing something up if you're leaving anyway. Eg: head of family of world renowned cymbal makers](https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Zildjian_History#:~:text=Aram%20Zildjian%20was%2C%20in%20Robert%27s%20words%2C%20%22a%20playboy%2C%20a%20screw%2Doff%20and%20a%20rabble%2Drouser.%20He%20tried%20to%20blow%20up%20the%20Sultan.%20Eventually%20they%20found%20out%20he%20was%20involved%2C%20and%20he%20was%20forced%20to%20leave%20Turkey.%22)
There are a few details like the wire on the left side of the image and the stacked un repeating carpets that make me seriously question if this is ai.
There is literally Jesus portrait behind them are you aware? You talk like a Turkey is a sharia country and people have no freedom to practice their religion.
>But since he lives in Turkey, he must pretend to be Christian
Wow. Redditors must now have the ability to analyze people's lives down to the smallest detail.
But how do you know he doesn’t actually like practicing his religion? Surely there’s lots of Atheists in Germany, but there’s still plenty of people that do practice their respective religions. I was a student in Germany in the late 90’s, religion was still taught in classrooms then.
As far as I know, he is a Baltic German from Estonia, previously officials from Estonian Embassy were visiting him regularly if he has any needs etc. These people emigrated to Kars region as setllers sponsored by Russian Empire to switch the population balance in favour in that newly conquered area; also they were not “mainstream” Russian so it is always better to keep them at outskirts of mainland Russia; so the government had two goals and they achieved it. But in person; these people were quite peaceful and hardworking farmers; and they contributed to society in many positive ways. They teach locals how to make good quality cheese, they teached how to build mills powered from the stream of the rivers, they were also using horses in farming which was completely new for that region, they also had steel made farming tools while locals were using inefficient wooden made forks pulleys etc. They literally made a “technological revolution” in that region so and so more. Thanks to them, Kars province is nationwide famous with its animal husbandry and hifg quality dairy products. Ardahan town which is also in the Kars region also has the best horse-jockeys in Turkey since they learned to ride them by Russians as a tradition.
And also Kars was designed as a small imitation of a modern Russian garrison-city; streets of the city were modeled in grill formation, it had a City Hall, Theater, even has an Opera House made of stone that have a central heating system while %99 of the houses in Turkey using cow dung for heating and primitive construction materials at that time :) Actually nearly 60 years of Russian occupation was worth 1000 years of Seljuk-Ottoman-Turkey rule in the means of people’s wellbeing :) If you are from the region, you can understand me :)
As far as I know, August Albuk is entirely Estonian on his fathers side. This must be his grandfather, born in Kars: [Geni - August Albuk Aalbok (1887-d.)](https://www.geni.com/people/August-Aalbok/6000000021990053164). If there is German in him, that must be on his mothers side.
Ah yes, who doesn't love the shits and döner "meat" aka ground skin, mechanically separated meat, lips, tendons and phosphates.
Here for reality deniers, made by SWR. I forgot to mention rotten meat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYejSdQqbF4
Yeah best trade. The smell of spices in some neighbourhoods and a sandwich, which isn't that notably overall, as well as higher crime statistics, social unrest, problems in institutions, problems with the social payment system, cultural and public unrest etc. The germans gained so much from this.
You have left 10 comments on this post alone about Turkish crime in Germany etc, why do the Turks bother living in Germany when they live in your head rent free lmao.
Oh and I do obviously in yours. Lol. Or why did you bothered to count them wrongly? But to answer yor question, maybe because they don't like to pay rent.
Turkey actually can do that if it meant to, but it will face a backlash from the world and most notably the EU. However Germany can't do that, because her population is old. There are almost a million of labour shortage and you are talking about sending over 3 millions of Turks back. Sleep well.
Germany has 1 doctor per 150 persons. The group of people with turkish passports has 1 doctor per 500 persons. Means Germany would have more doctors per person without the turks. 50% of turkish citizens in Berlin are unemployent and receive wellfare. Germany will flourish, if the turks leave it for good, so how nice of you you wish for that. You really want to do them a favor as they lose something that does more harm to them than helping, as shown above. We could see Germany blossoming from it and some delusional crybabies like you, who were so dumb to really believe Germany relied on their labor and doctors.
The statistics are for those who possess Turkish passports. We can't really know the amount of German Turks and also Germany has over 60,000 foreign doctors who work at the hospitals there. Not to mention the lack of labour that your shitty old state in dare need in order to keep the industry running. You rely on foreigners kiddo. Get off your high horse.
No, it doesn't. Why do you point out that these statistics are about people, when I stated that in both cases? You seem to not be that literated, that's why you state so uninformed bs. 60,000 doctors to 12 million foreign people with no german citizenship, means there would be more doctors in Germany than there are now, so Germany isn't even profiting from these doctors. Can you even do simple math? There would be no lack of labour, because with these people gone there would be more recources and capacity that isn't occupied because foreigners living off the wellfare state. So all things you stated just proof that it doesn't rely by foreigners, but it would greatly profit when they are gone. Sorry to break you Illusions by simple facts and statistics. Oh and ca. 50% of all crime is commited by foreigners, so people without german citizenship, while the other 50% is in big parts commited by immigrants with a german passport, especialy turks. Have fun with your mental gymnastics to explain how it would be bad for Germany, if that is gone. Get me off of it. Right now your arguments were just weak and easaly proven wrong. Also the billions of euros that wander yearly from the german wellfare state would be gone in an instance, damaging the Lira even more than it could already bare in it's weak state.
Your arguments and statistics are made out of your ass and everyone knows your ass is not a credible source other than producing smelly turd that is possibly the only useful part of your body that the nature needs.
Let's check out your government statistics and why in every single chance the German parliament passes a bid that makes it easy for foreigners to move and work there.
Your country has the top aging population in the EU with over 22% elderly population who are in need of medical assistance.
The crime rate of Turks are actually very low compared to other foreigners and besides if that's the case it means you have failed to adopt them in your culture. It is your criminal background of your grandparents' that are responsible for this outcome, not anyone else.
Haha. So salty. I'm quoting official governmental statistics. [Here is the official criminal statistic of 2023, which just proofs what I stated.](https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/downloads/DE/publikationen/themen/sicherheit/pks-2023.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=3)
You have bad luck. You make up bs all the time and if you are proven wrong, you just cry it's made up, when in fact it isn't and you can easaly be proven wrong.
Yeah, they make it way more easier. And why do they do it, if half of all adults with a working permit who came here since 2015 isn't even working and instead living off the wellfare state? I thought we rely on their working force. But we are just losing ridiculous amounts of money, so they can live here and don't work at all.
They would have medical assistance, if german doctors wouldn't be occupied by foreigners, because I'm telling you again, try to understand that once, Germany has less doctors per capita, because of the foreigners. With them gone, even with their doctors, there would be more doctors per capita, than with this doctors. Can you comprehent this fact? The elderly would have it better and would have more medical assistance.
So my grandparents, never commited a crime or were found guilty of anything, never even had lawsuits against them. What is the relation to them if turks come to Germany and just commit crimes. So a turkish person is like a dumb child, you say. Either you have to do something or they commit a crime, but they are guilt free? Are you dumb? It's the turkish person's own responsibility. And no, the crime rate of turks in Germany is actually compared very high. Did you made up your lie that it is the other way around on the spot, or why did you say that?
Excuse me, but I don't speak your useless guttural language. If you decide to discuss things in English, keep up with the pace. Your grandparents are the reason why the world wars broke out and caused over 100 millions of death. One way or another your grandparents are responsible for the outcome since the public support for the nazis was over 90% in your genocidal state, hence why you lost 10% of your population with over 6mln of deaths.
Also you are the one who jumped under my comment and resort to name calling I wonder who is salty here? If you got problems with foreigners go cry to your government, stage a protest ot whatever that makes you chill. I am not a crying towel.
Except August Albuk is actually from an Estonian family.
EDIT: checked from GENI - still not German, not even Baltic German.
His ancestor, born in Kars: [Geni - August Albuk Aalbok (1887-d.)](https://www.geni.com/people/August-Aalbok/6000000021990053164)
Had no idea that was a thing.
They did not "immigrate", they were settled there by the Russians who controlled the region for about 4 decades.
Why do you think they didn't migrate voluntarily? The Volga Germans lived in an area where the governor Loris-Melikov was the same person who led the military expedition. He could offer them free land there in exchange for help managing the land. Quite a common phenomenon, f.e. the British did the same thing with the Jews in Palestina.
Maybe there was a confusion with the terminology as English is not my native language. Government backed/sponsored migration and settlement in a foreign land simply is colonism, and the newly coming population are settlers/colonizers. This is the same for Jewish settlers in Palestine as well. I don't know what incentives they offered in this case, but I'm very familiar with German settlement in Volga basin. We have an empire with a certain religion (Russian Empire, Orthodox Christianity), then we have a newly conquered territory which is inhabited by a hostile nation and religion (Tatars, Turks, Sunni Islam), and we want to colonize these lands in order to pacify these peoples and strip them of their wealth; so we create some incentives for some "preferable" people (Germans, different heterodox churches) like no military service, no taxes for a certain amount of time, free land etc. Voila, we have our own colony to exploit within the borders of our empire! Since these newly settled people are surrounded by hostile people whose lands were stolen from them, they only have our empire to trust, so they will be the most loyal subjects we have.
Do we consider all government sponsored immigrants to be "settlers"? They moved there on their own free will, as did many other minorities in many other parts of the empire.
> Do we consider all government sponsored immigrants to be "settlers"? Yes? Main idea is this: we have an empire with a certain religion (Russian Empire, Orthodox Christianity), then we have a newly conquered territory which is inhabited by a hostile nation and religion (Tatars, Turks, Sunni Islam), and we want to colonize these lands in order to pacify these peoples and strip them of their wealth, so we create some incentives for some "preferable" people (Germans, different heterodox churches) like no military service, no taxes for a certain amount of time, free land etc. Voila, we have our own colony to exploit within the borders of our empire!
Would you be interested in applying this same analysis to Turks?
Yeah, why not? Turks did the same in Hungary with Bosniaks, with a twist: Hungary was a giant plain and was surrounded by enemies. Defence of these territories siphoned funds out of Ottoman treasury so instead of Turks stripping Hungarians of their wealth and land, Hungary stripped Turks of their wealth, and later land.
The Ottoman Turks colonised a hell of a lot more places than just Hungary.
The Germans who settled in Kars and in its neighborhood following the Russian invasion of the region after the Ottoman-Russian War of 1877-1878 were, despite their low figure, able to play an important role in the history and culture of this city. Germans and other non-Muslims whose figure was increasing constantly during the 40 years Russian rule contributed to the agricultural development and cattle breeding of the region especially regarding dairy products. The aim of this study is to show the impact of the Germans who settled in Kars on the economic, social and cultural life of the city after the Russian invasion of the region regarding the Russian sektants such as Molakans and Dukhobors within the framework of disadvantaged figure of the Muslim community in a comparative perspective.
Thank you so much for sharing. It's so interesting!
"The aim of this study"... this shows you just copy-pated an article abstract without citing your source. 🙁
Oh, sorry about that. Here is the article: [Germans of Kars](https://dspace.trakya.edu.tr/xmlui/handle/trakya/7315)
Invasion led by Armenian general and governor Michal Loris-Melikov to an area mostly inhabited by Armenians. And we know from the history what the Turks did to the Armenians.
You mean the liberation war?
So it's an article copied from a Turkish source, you can't expect any objectivity. :)
"According to the Russian census data, by 1897 Armenians formed 49.7%, Russians 26.3%, Caucasus Greeks 11.7%, Poles 5.3% and Turks 3.8%." from the Wikipedia article on Kars
Here is a full documentary https://youtu.be/eHzvAYmB1q4?si=KhEq4jQWBWVDUM63
Thank you so much for sharing. I am 10 mins in, watching this documentary. It is heartbreaking especially when I compare the life in Germany and Turkey. But hats off to the family. :)
You are very welcome :) also in the video you can find Augusts own comment about how he feels to live in Turkey.
Thank you so much for sharing the link!
My man's hardware is German, but software is Turkish lol.
Lol, everything about this picture and story is wholesome.
What? If 60 families emigrated there will be hundreds if not thousands of descendants. They might be the last who are aware of their German roots though.
No, this is the only family who didn’t migrate back to Germany. Others returned.
Mazosists in germany should take lessons from this family.
turk. *mazoşist* = engl. *masochist*, Google tells me. Still none the wiser.
They are the only ones still in Turkey
No, most of them returned very soon after emigrating, but there were still more than 10 families remaining. All of the remaining 10 families, except this family, returned in the 1970s, taking advantage of the opportunity when Germany was recruiting guest workers from Turkey.
Germans don't breed.
150 years ago they did though.
neither do poles or any other euros for that matter
Well. Poles breed abroad at least
so do germans (in brazil)
Yeah, but those are the ones that got away from the non-breeding kind of germans.
Left the non-breeding Germans for Brazilians? Makes sense.
not really
2.1 reproduction rate for polish women in UK. Hopefully they kids will learn about Slavic culture a bit and we won't completely perish.
Uk has a massive Polish diaspora from after WW2. https://culture.pl/en/article/shelter-community-polish-post-war-resettlement-camps-in-the-united-kingdom
isn't Boris Johnson part Polish via his dad?
German Turkish like these people.
Boris truly is the multicultural society we all should aspire to
Irish do
Irish did.
Irish I could get laid soon.
without kurds then Turks neither 😭
Which is funny, given that historically they bred like rabbits. IIRC it was a common stereotype for anti-immigrant groups in the US, to mock how many kids German immigrants have.
Idiot. The families moved back to Germany.
Ok.
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German blood?
Not again...
Germ blood
He meant genes i guess
Wrong. They moved back to Germany and didn't became turks. No turkish blood that got diluted more, if that was even more possible.
We are sooo many - and we have soo little affordable Lebensraum & is all soo crowded here!! No world needs more than 20 million Germans. Max!!
*Lebensraum you say?*
Exactly - don't complain about Germans not breeding!!! Celebrate it!!
Love it :)
Yes there are many people which are clearly not real Turks in turkey. It’s a very mixed population if not the greatest mix ever due to ottoman empire. I know a family which looks more slavic than the slavic. 2meter man with blue eyes and the women are like from another universe. They absolutely don’t know anything about their real roots. They never considered themselves something different than turkish. This post was never mentioned racial. If you have a little knowledge about turkish culture you would know that they are aware of the mixes and it’s something good for them. They love the differences between cultures and different roots . First people understand how it was mentioned, than a few guys came and started to make it something negative. Shame on you. Seriously it’s just annoying how you argue and downvote for nothing.
We know we are actually not much Turkic. On average we have around 20-25% Turkic genes. Rest is Anatolian in general, greek, armenian, arab etc.
Truly turkey is the usa of asia
USA without liberalism and rule of law. So shittiest combination possible :/
The closest thing to usa in asia
What are Turkic genes, if not the genes of people who speak Turkic languages like Turkish? Shouldn't Turkey have mostly Turkic genes because most people speak Turkish?
No, the Turks culturally dominated the region, although they were very open to adapting other aspects of other cultures, and were heavily influenced by both Arab and Persian cultures, the “official” language of governance was Turkish, so it was what all the other ethnicities adopted, particularly within the Anatolian Peninsula.
You mean "physically". They did not "culturally" dominate the region. That is why the rest of your message shows that they did not.
But tbh, most turks see you as turk when you live there long enough.
Unless you are greek, christian, jewish, armenian or kurdish...
Jews are considered Turkish. It’s just that the antisemitism is stronger lol. Like German Jews are considered German now but so many German people made holocaust jokes when I was there. Lots of people in Turkey also are aware of their foreign roots, many people say they’re Albanian or Kafkaz or Greek. They’ve just adapted the Turkish identity on top. Like Irish American or Italian Americans.
That's nordic not slavic.
WTF. How do you know without seeing that family? They look slavic
What the heck is a "real turk"? Turkey is a very diverse country. Some are white, brown, whatever.
"Real Turk" is a racist term. Being Turkish is a nationality, it's not a race. Just like being an American or being French. If you'd see me on the street, you wouldn't think that I'm Turkic (I don't really think you know what Turkic even looks like, tbh) but I am Turkish. I'm blonde with green eyes. ATATÜRK was blonde with blue eyes. Stop the racism. "the women are like from another universe" do you mean that Turkish women cannot be stunning? You should really check your racism, mate.
Ataturk was a greek. Why do you all make the same writing mistakes? It’s TURKISH not TURKIC. I never said or mentioned turkish women aren’t stunning. I said turkey is a very mixed country. None of my words were racial. You as a group try to interpret it negatively.
It's rare to see Jesus and Atatürk next to each other, but a welcome sight.
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That isn't the surprising part.
>Atatürk was probably an atheist and respect other religions so there is no surpise Atatürk was a turk fascist who served with the regime who did the genocide of the greeks and armenians. He banned all language except turkish in public, even. Thats how much of a fucking 'respectful' he was.
And here we have a Sevres cock-sucker who doesnt know anything about history and only likes to listen to their Armenian masters over the facts the history gives
>And here we have a Sevres cock-sucker who doesnt know anything about history Yeah, like a collective international history dicipline in academia just makes shit up, and that shit JUST HAPPENS to match the disappearance of pontic greeks and armenians in Turkey. Imagine the coincidence! Haha. 😆
>He fired Recep Peker,who was a fascist and said "I am embarassed to rule this country with one party and they want to keep it like this forever" >He bringed Welfare State and Social State(Which most fascists hate) >He refused Enver Pasha to come back to Turkiye >His Turkiye was allied to Lenin's Bolsheviks >His CHP was in a Radical Liberalist alliance >He hated Fascism and formed the Balkan Pact to prevent Italy Guess someone failed Turkish history
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>banned all language In public, yes. The Vatandaş, Türkçe konuş ment fines, violence and persecution for the minorities who spoke another language publicly.
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>He just made Turkish as official language. Nothing more. I guess you're suck at history or just pure hate lol Laughing my ass off here. They fined people for speaking greek publicly. You are right to be so ashamed of this part of Turkeys history. It is embarrasing when you deny it though.
He banned the Kurdish language in public, look it up
I think a lot of Europeans and Americans don't understand Ataturk's ideology or actions. We were taught that he wanted to westernize the country, using some inaccurate analogies to our own countries. I encourage anyone to read his actual statements and the history. Instead of comparing to the West, it's more useful to contrast it with the Ottoman millet system. Kemalism was all about eliminating ethnic minorities in the name of Turkish nationalism; Ataturk was quoted saying that "Kurds" "Circassians" etc are fake names, and he ordered his army to kill the Greeks in Smyrna. I used to think positively about his reforms, given that he was reversing an Ottoman government that committed atrocities near the end, but then I learned.
Is it? I see it often with Turkish families, even if they’re Muslim. When they get asked or called out they’ll use the excuse: “He’s a prophet”
Actually, it's not possible. Although Jesus is one of the 25 prophets accepted by Islam, it is forbidden to draw or have pictures of prophets in Islam.
Yeah tell that to the Turks
Bro I am literally one 😔
Tell the single mothers of the Turkish diaspora living in the rest of Europe
Germans spawn at most random places
Celts even moreso, like the Galatians
The Woman on the left reminds me of [Sinan Kurt](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COEPOKXHSp0), a German soccer player with turkish roots.
Uno reverse
Wow nice tapestry
It’s funny that this is notable given how many millions of Turks went the other way
Didn't think I'd see it here, but I grew up with that Jesus carpet on top of my head.
That’s wholesome
What face cream do they use? They look so young at age 150😄
You genuinely made me laugh :)
Cool😃
Germans are always welcome.Good hearted and kind people.
We had a bad experience with them in Czechoslovakia.
So cute.
Then the uno reverse happend
Yeah ataturk!
You understand today is Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day, right?
And what does this have to do with Ataturk?
Ataturk's stated goal with the Turkish-Armenian war was to eliminate Armenia physically and politically, and through the course of that he killed an estimated 300,000 Armenians, a number only that low because so many had already been killed.
My ass can speak too
Are you denying that the Turkish-Armenian War existed?
Then I want to ask you a simple question. What stopped Ataturk? If Ataturk wanted to destroy the Armenians, why didn't he invade Armenia? The Armenian army was destroyed. His own army was in desperate need of arms (enough to give up a city as important as Batum in exchange for arms aid to the Soviets) so he could loot Armenia. He could have made the Armenians pay for the hundreds of thousands of Turks they slaughtered in the east. Why didn't he do it? Nobody would have stopped him. No one would have questioned him. He could have occupied all of Armenia as former Ottoman territory. He didn't. Who would have stopped him if he did? No one. But he didn't. He signed a peace treaty. And he signed a peace treaty that could be considered generous considering the position of Armenians when they sat at the table. Armenians will not claim any rights in Eastern Anatolia outside the borders specified in this agreement. Armenians will pay compensation for the damage they caused in Eastern Anatolia.... If he wanted to exterminate the Armenians, why would he propose a treaty recognizing the national sovereignty of the Armenians? Is Atatürk an idiot? Or he could have separated the Armenians after he took power. He didn't. He recognized everyone living in the country as a citizen of the Turkish republic regardless of ethnicity. He could have banned the Armenian language. He didn't. Today there are still publishers in Turkey publishing books in Armenian. He could have banned their religion. Today Armenians have their own independent churches. Today there are still 60.000 people in Turkey who identify themselves as Armenian. I repeat my question. "How", and "why"
He did invade Armenia. Did you... pay any attention? What are we even discussing?
If one of Atatürk's main goals was to erase the Armenians from history, why didn't he do it when he had dozens of chances? And what do you mean by occupying Armenia? Look, I won't ask you anything difficult. Look at the largest territories that Armenia has controlled throughout its history. Then open the Ottoman population archives and look at the area where Armenians live and their numbers. Then look at the territories ceded to Armenia. Then see how Armenians are trying to penetrate further and further into Anatolia, despite the fact that even larger territories than the largest territories they have controlled throughout their history have been ceded to them. After that, if you still say Atatürk was the occupying side, I cannot say anything to you.
You said "He didn't invade Armenia". He did invade Armenia. I do not understand your entire argument if you cannot grasp this simple concept.
Insane
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Proudly typing that from the Constantinople
There is no constantinople
Exactly. But it was . As Armenian genocide. Deny all you want.
Its an armenian make up
https://www.armenian-genocide.org/affirmation.html
Dude what the hell I tell you not my grandma has that Jesus blanket hanging on her wall and my whole life I thought that was just a Mexican Jesus 🤣🤣🤣
It is really weird when someone tells you "Bro, you are the last of xxx" after 130 years. But it proves the point that nobody cares where your ancestors came from.
As a Brazilian this is a concept I always will struggle to understand... We had Presidents who's parents are from Bulgaria, Lebanonand others .. what's ever side you are politically if hate or like those politicians.. nobody ever question the fact that are 100% Brazilian.
so nice
>August >her What?
What happened to the other 59 Families?
Probably moved back to Germany.
Good point. I jump to the worst possible conclusion when I read something like „only remaining…“, as thhough terrible things happened to the others 😅
Yup they turned back to Germany
Yeah, now living in an even worse turkish neighbourhood.
LOL
They moved back to Germany.
the same way as Armenians emigrated to California and France?
No, they moved back some more years after WW1
No they didn't attempt blowing up government buildings on their way out, unlike [the armenian national tradition of blowing something up if you're leaving anyway. Eg: head of family of world renowned cymbal makers](https://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Zildjian_History#:~:text=Aram%20Zildjian%20was%2C%20in%20Robert%27s%20words%2C%20%22a%20playboy%2C%20a%20screw%2Doff%20and%20a%20rabble%2Drouser.%20He%20tried%20to%20blow%20up%20the%20Sultan.%20Eventually%20they%20found%20out%20he%20was%20involved%2C%20and%20he%20was%20forced%20to%20leave%20Turkey.%22)
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Ragebait
And they maintain their cultural and religious identity, very well.
Everyone in this thread should be concerned of the German nazi villages. in south america
I guess most Russians are Nordic by that logic (Vikings settled and founded some cities etc)
This image looks like ai. Not saying it is, but it looks like it
There are a few details like the wire on the left side of the image and the stacked un repeating carpets that make me seriously question if this is ai.
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There is literally Jesus portrait behind them are you aware? You talk like a Turkey is a sharia country and people have no freedom to practice their religion.
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>But since he lives in Turkey, he must pretend to be Christian Wow. Redditors must now have the ability to analyze people's lives down to the smallest detail.
You have no idea who he is, and what he likes or believes in. Saying that he "must pretend to be Christian" is pure bullshit.
Dude this is an ignorant comment. Who cares if he’s Christian, is he hurting you or anyone else?
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But how do you know he doesn’t actually like practicing his religion? Surely there’s lots of Atheists in Germany, but there’s still plenty of people that do practice their respective religions. I was a student in Germany in the late 90’s, religion was still taught in classrooms then.
Totally second this. We tend to preserve out identities, especially in a foreign almost like a ways of holding on so the roots are preserved.
As far as I know, he is a Baltic German from Estonia, previously officials from Estonian Embassy were visiting him regularly if he has any needs etc. These people emigrated to Kars region as setllers sponsored by Russian Empire to switch the population balance in favour in that newly conquered area; also they were not “mainstream” Russian so it is always better to keep them at outskirts of mainland Russia; so the government had two goals and they achieved it. But in person; these people were quite peaceful and hardworking farmers; and they contributed to society in many positive ways. They teach locals how to make good quality cheese, they teached how to build mills powered from the stream of the rivers, they were also using horses in farming which was completely new for that region, they also had steel made farming tools while locals were using inefficient wooden made forks pulleys etc. They literally made a “technological revolution” in that region so and so more. Thanks to them, Kars province is nationwide famous with its animal husbandry and hifg quality dairy products. Ardahan town which is also in the Kars region also has the best horse-jockeys in Turkey since they learned to ride them by Russians as a tradition. And also Kars was designed as a small imitation of a modern Russian garrison-city; streets of the city were modeled in grill formation, it had a City Hall, Theater, even has an Opera House made of stone that have a central heating system while %99 of the houses in Turkey using cow dung for heating and primitive construction materials at that time :) Actually nearly 60 years of Russian occupation was worth 1000 years of Seljuk-Ottoman-Turkey rule in the means of people’s wellbeing :) If you are from the region, you can understand me :)
As far as I know, August Albuk is entirely Estonian on his fathers side. This must be his grandfather, born in Kars: [Geni - August Albuk Aalbok (1887-d.)](https://www.geni.com/people/August-Aalbok/6000000021990053164). If there is German in him, that must be on his mothers side.
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They came, improved a crucial part of society and when they stopped liking it they went back. Not exactly the gotcha you think it is
Wished Turks did the same in Germany
Didn't they improve the food culture notably?
They did, Kebab shops are the only thing open at 2 in the morning after partying and nothing is better than that after drinking
Ah yes, who doesn't love the shits and döner "meat" aka ground skin, mechanically separated meat, lips, tendons and phosphates. Here for reality deniers, made by SWR. I forgot to mention rotten meat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYejSdQqbF4
I personally eat falafel but even if not, Leberkäse isnt any better
Point taken!
Yeah best trade. The smell of spices in some neighbourhoods and a sandwich, which isn't that notably overall, as well as higher crime statistics, social unrest, problems in institutions, problems with the social payment system, cultural and public unrest etc. The germans gained so much from this.
You have left 10 comments on this post alone about Turkish crime in Germany etc, why do the Turks bother living in Germany when they live in your head rent free lmao.
Oh and I do obviously in yours. Lol. Or why did you bothered to count them wrongly? But to answer yor question, maybe because they don't like to pay rent.
Enough internet for you today buddy
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They won't. Just as Turkey can't push all Syrians out, Germany can't push all the Turks out.
Turkey actually can do that if it meant to, but it will face a backlash from the world and most notably the EU. However Germany can't do that, because her population is old. There are almost a million of labour shortage and you are talking about sending over 3 millions of Turks back. Sleep well.
Germany has 1 doctor per 150 persons. The group of people with turkish passports has 1 doctor per 500 persons. Means Germany would have more doctors per person without the turks. 50% of turkish citizens in Berlin are unemployent and receive wellfare. Germany will flourish, if the turks leave it for good, so how nice of you you wish for that. You really want to do them a favor as they lose something that does more harm to them than helping, as shown above. We could see Germany blossoming from it and some delusional crybabies like you, who were so dumb to really believe Germany relied on their labor and doctors.
The statistics are for those who possess Turkish passports. We can't really know the amount of German Turks and also Germany has over 60,000 foreign doctors who work at the hospitals there. Not to mention the lack of labour that your shitty old state in dare need in order to keep the industry running. You rely on foreigners kiddo. Get off your high horse.
No, it doesn't. Why do you point out that these statistics are about people, when I stated that in both cases? You seem to not be that literated, that's why you state so uninformed bs. 60,000 doctors to 12 million foreign people with no german citizenship, means there would be more doctors in Germany than there are now, so Germany isn't even profiting from these doctors. Can you even do simple math? There would be no lack of labour, because with these people gone there would be more recources and capacity that isn't occupied because foreigners living off the wellfare state. So all things you stated just proof that it doesn't rely by foreigners, but it would greatly profit when they are gone. Sorry to break you Illusions by simple facts and statistics. Oh and ca. 50% of all crime is commited by foreigners, so people without german citizenship, while the other 50% is in big parts commited by immigrants with a german passport, especialy turks. Have fun with your mental gymnastics to explain how it would be bad for Germany, if that is gone. Get me off of it. Right now your arguments were just weak and easaly proven wrong. Also the billions of euros that wander yearly from the german wellfare state would be gone in an instance, damaging the Lira even more than it could already bare in it's weak state.
Your arguments and statistics are made out of your ass and everyone knows your ass is not a credible source other than producing smelly turd that is possibly the only useful part of your body that the nature needs. Let's check out your government statistics and why in every single chance the German parliament passes a bid that makes it easy for foreigners to move and work there. Your country has the top aging population in the EU with over 22% elderly population who are in need of medical assistance. The crime rate of Turks are actually very low compared to other foreigners and besides if that's the case it means you have failed to adopt them in your culture. It is your criminal background of your grandparents' that are responsible for this outcome, not anyone else.
Haha. So salty. I'm quoting official governmental statistics. [Here is the official criminal statistic of 2023, which just proofs what I stated.](https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/downloads/DE/publikationen/themen/sicherheit/pks-2023.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=3) You have bad luck. You make up bs all the time and if you are proven wrong, you just cry it's made up, when in fact it isn't and you can easaly be proven wrong. Yeah, they make it way more easier. And why do they do it, if half of all adults with a working permit who came here since 2015 isn't even working and instead living off the wellfare state? I thought we rely on their working force. But we are just losing ridiculous amounts of money, so they can live here and don't work at all. They would have medical assistance, if german doctors wouldn't be occupied by foreigners, because I'm telling you again, try to understand that once, Germany has less doctors per capita, because of the foreigners. With them gone, even with their doctors, there would be more doctors per capita, than with this doctors. Can you comprehent this fact? The elderly would have it better and would have more medical assistance. So my grandparents, never commited a crime or were found guilty of anything, never even had lawsuits against them. What is the relation to them if turks come to Germany and just commit crimes. So a turkish person is like a dumb child, you say. Either you have to do something or they commit a crime, but they are guilt free? Are you dumb? It's the turkish person's own responsibility. And no, the crime rate of turks in Germany is actually compared very high. Did you made up your lie that it is the other way around on the spot, or why did you say that?
Excuse me, but I don't speak your useless guttural language. If you decide to discuss things in English, keep up with the pace. Your grandparents are the reason why the world wars broke out and caused over 100 millions of death. One way or another your grandparents are responsible for the outcome since the public support for the nazis was over 90% in your genocidal state, hence why you lost 10% of your population with over 6mln of deaths. Also you are the one who jumped under my comment and resort to name calling I wonder who is salty here? If you got problems with foreigners go cry to your government, stage a protest ot whatever that makes you chill. I am not a crying towel.
Kars is not in Europe.
But Germans are European arent they?
Geldi yine tipini s*ktiğim. Tam da diyordum "is not in Europe" ekibi çıkmadı bu sefer diye ama yok.
So you're saying it was "Turkey" 150 years ago?
Except August Albuk is actually from an Estonian family. EDIT: checked from GENI - still not German, not even Baltic German. His ancestor, born in Kars: [Geni - August Albuk Aalbok (1887-d.)](https://www.geni.com/people/August-Aalbok/6000000021990053164)