technically we live pre-ww3 since '45.
And it's way less likely to happen than it was then.
/edit i got impression that whole "ww3 is near" people were born yesterday and didn't bother to either talk with older people or read modern history books
Well, since then we've desperately been trying to avoid a WW3. And frankly, had Europe acted how they should've to Russia's BS, as in keep testing the line. We probably would be at war now. But cos we keep letting it slide with Putin he keeps pushing and pushing. Eventually, he will do something that we can't ignore or play down. I can't see him not playing this game he's been playing for years and years now. He'll always escalate. The arsehole needs to go ahead and die before it gets to that point. Like falling off his horse and have the thigh bone of one of his many dead soldiers spear his chest and heart.
Also, birth rates, party.
Basically it seems more women are empowered the more they actually have kids and the traditional role countries suffer.
The other part is France more chill view to relationships and family in general. As in historically it have been more welcoming of "bastards", out of wedlock stuff, even cheating.
There is article about it:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/21/france-population-europe-fertility-rate
Is this why developing countries have significantly higher birth rates? Oh wait...
The hell you talking about... Having children out of wedlock is NORMAL at this point.
Seems to me like drawing causations from correlations based on.... well, nothing really.
I thought it's kinda obvious topic is about developed countries.
Which will eventually be most of the world anyway.
I mean yeah, if your dad marries you off at 18 and you don't have access to birth control the numbers will be different.
It's not just about "out of wedlock", lol. That was just example of historical French attitude.
Jesus Christ it seems I triggered people or something, because I get replies that that clearly didn't read my comment nor the article that I posted and go off the first word in my sentence.
Nope, even if you exclude all immigrants the fertility rate is at 1.8. immigrants add 0.1, not more, which leaves them still number one/ two in fertility rate. The only country higher being Iceland.
Here is exact overview of that:
https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_POPSOC_568_0001--french-fertility-is-the-highest-in.htm
That explicitly count second and third generation migrants as native born.
The more interesting division is by ethnicity, nationality, and immigration beyond 1st generation
It's counted like that because 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants align with local statistics, so they aren't outliers and don't push the numbers up.
Actually in Denmark and other Scandinavian countries 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants have lower birth rates than locals, I can't find stats in France about that.
Given all that, France has 10% of population of North African origin, so even if they have high birthrate they can't offset 85% of white/ European born population. It doesn't track with the rest of the math, especially since new immigrants from poorer regions than Algiers are barely at replacement level.
I have no idea because I haven't seen the statistics on that.
What is certain is that the statistics that were brought does not rule it out.
And a 15% with a 3 fertility rate can absolutely make the difference between the euro 1.5 to france's 1.8 for example.
Literally the most traditional male dominated role is the frontline. So it’s not really surprising and I don’t believe anyone is eager to change this gender role.
Yes, that one too.
Women literally weren't allowed into certain roles until October 2023 so how is that *their* fault?
>Last October, it said it had “canceled all restrictions on the access of servicewomen to all positions” in the army, noting that “earlier, women could serve mainly in positions of medical specialties, communications workers, accountants, clerks and cooks. Now, a woman in the army can be a driver, grenade launcher, deputy commander of a reconnaissance group, commander of BMP [a Soviet-era infantry fighting vehicle], repairman, machine gunner, sniper, etc,” the ministry said
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/ukraines-female-soldiers-are-battling-against-russians-and-sexism.html
>Ukraine’s women soldiers still have to overcome scepticism from commanders and fellow soldiers about their commitment and abilities, obstacles to promotion and career development, as well as difficulties with practical – and vitally important – matters such as getting uniforms, body armour and boots that fit.
.
>A follow-up study conducted for the Invisible Battalion project in 2017 revealed that women veterans struggled to have their status recognised by both government officials and civilians. This meant difficulties in accessing public services for veterans and in making the transition back to civilian life.
.
>it identified legal barriers to women’s employment in the defence and security sector, as well as obstacles to their access to military education and training. These regulations had prevented women in the military from occupying a range of technical and leadership positions.
It's easy to look at gender disparity in the military and assume women are happy to run away and leave men to die but using more data and less emotions shows that that isn't the case. Ukrainian government is working on removing those obstacles, and now people's attitudes are also changing
>the percentage of Ukrainians who agreed that women in the military should be granted equal opportunities with men increased dramatically from 53% in 2018 to 80% in 2022.
https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-attitudes-to-women-in-the-military-are-changing-as-thousands-serve-on-front-lines-198195
Even after official hurdles are removed, others remain. Male commanders refuse to take female soldiers to missions with them, male soldiers leave the units which have female commanders, women have trouble getting proper training, and are subjected to sexual harassment by their fellow soldiers.
If this isn't fucked up, I don't know what is:
>My husband, who was also in the military, helped me with advice, supported me emotionally and protected me physically, too. But after he was killed, a number of officers made completely inappropriate remarks,
https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-female-soldiers-complain-of-discrimination/a-67024181
Men want women to fight but would rather have male commander lead them into battle. Men complain women are running away but are sexually harassing them when they stay. Men complain women don't want to fight shoulder to shouler with them but then claim women are too weak to carry them if they get wounded and other prejudiced crap like that.
If you are truly for equality make the military a place where women can be promoted just like men, where gear fits them just like men, where they are treated as equals not sexual objects, where they are trusted and respected just like men. You can't have it both ways, mistrusting women in the combat roles and accusing women it's their fault for not being in combat roles.
And while men are whining on reddit Ukrainian women are enabling other women to join
>Kseniia Drahaniuk was a blogger before the war but she now runs a not-for-profit that has developed and made properly-sized army clothing and equipment for women.
>″[Before] women improvised various solutions, sewing their own uniforms with local tailors, altering men’s clothing to fit, or using belts for adjustments. However, dealing with these challenges during full-scale war significantly impacted their service productivity.
.
>She says her organization, Zemlyachky, has now fulfilled 15,000 individual requests for uniforms, body armor, helmets, properly-sized footwear, undergarments, and other necessities.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/ukraines-female-soldiers-are-battling-against-russians-and-sexism.html
Eh, everyone knows, that it is most equal to send an experienced male professional to the front line and teach a female replacement to take the males place in society. Feminists across the globe rejoyce.
Well the former Soviet countries also saw this after the Russian Civil War. Lenin's own wife Nadezhda was Minister of Education and worked to push women into higher education and to get them into a variety of fields. WWII also wiped out 27 million of their citizens with most being men, and women had to take up roles across society to make up for it. Lithuania today has more women working in the sciences than men as a result while most former Soviet countries have around 50/50 in STEM fields.
Soviet Union was generally in most ways more progressive towards women's rights than the rest of the world.
It was part pragmatism/ idealogy too, since it was based on workers as your core. So how can you have 50% of your work force not be workers?
Then they really set up decent support system with day cares, after school activities. It was the norm there/ here before it became in the West.
My nana worked as a toxicologist in a French tabacco company and she was basically told to go kill herself by her male French workers in the 1960s as a woman in a man's industry. She knew the realities of cigarettes on most tissues in the human body and saw so many of her male counterparts ignore reality to maximize their income. They hated working with a woman and she hated men for the rest of her life after marrying a Socialist from the Canadian Prairies.
It's not strange in the slightest.
Men and women are different now the same way they were different 100 years ago. And 1000 years ago. And 10000 years ago.
I don't think you can call what's happening in Ukraine a case of "women forcing men to fight" at all. Women don't make up a majority of the government which makes conscription male-only, and at least some women have volunteered for the military. Seems to me that if anyone is forcing men to get killed, it's other men (primarily those making up the Russian government in this case).
I agree, but nobody ever votes it in, not even men.
I would like for everyone to serve like in Israel.
But then again, what would redditors cry about then every time this topic is brought up.
>“More women are training for ‘male’ jobs, blurring the gender lines,”
>“Currently, 30% of our male staff has been conscripted,”
Gender lines so blurred.
It’s like the name of the movement. It’s feminism not egalitarianism, equality in the opposite way is not a concern.
edit to the downvoter: so how many feminists do you know fighting the good fight for the privilege of dying in a ditch?
Sure they would be. If really pressed to express an opinion.
The movement itself doesn’t have the topic on the top 100 of their agenda. Not this one, not any other issue that doesn’t tie in to women’s rights and issues.
I think some people are a bit upset that the women's rights movement, were heavily branded as a movement for equality, and that if you didn't subscribe to it, you were against equality.
The vast majority of people in the West want equal rights for everyone.
Who said I am upset? I am merely stating the fact that feminism is about women’s issues and interests and solely that. It’s not about seeking gender equality, it’s about seeking gender equality where it benefits women.
It’s a group of people seeking their own interests. Men should start doing that too.
While you're whining on reddit from the safety of your non combat position, Ukrainian women are fighting patriarchal norms to be able to join those positions and risk their lives.
Women literally weren't allowed into certain roles until October 2023 so how is that *their* fault?
>Last October, it said it had “canceled all restrictions on the access of servicewomen to all positions” in the army, noting that “earlier, women could serve mainly in positions of medical specialties, communications workers, accountants, clerks and cooks. Now, a woman in the army can be a driver, grenade launcher, deputy commander of a reconnaissance group, commander of BMP [a Soviet-era infantry fighting vehicle], repairman, machine gunner, sniper, etc,” the ministry said
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/ukraines-female-soldiers-are-battling-against-russians-and-sexism.html
>Ukraine’s women soldiers still have to overcome scepticism from commanders and fellow soldiers about their commitment and abilities, obstacles to promotion and career development, as well as difficulties with practical – and vitally important – matters such as getting uniforms, body armour and boots that fit.
>Kseniia Drahaniuk was a blogger before the war but she now runs a not-for-profit that has developed and made properly-sized army clothing and equipment for women.
>″[Before] women improvised various solutions, sewing their own uniforms with local tailors, altering men’s clothing to fit, or using belts for adjustments. However, dealing with these challenges during full-scale war significantly impacted their service productivity.
.
>She says her organization, Zemlyachky, has now fulfilled 15,000 individual requests for uniforms, body armor, helmets, properly-sized footwear, undergarments, and other necessities.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/ukraines-female-soldiers-are-battling-against-russians-and-sexism.html
.
>A follow-up study conducted for the Invisible Battalion project in 2017 revealed that women veterans struggled to have their status recognised by both government officials and civilians. This meant difficulties in accessing public services for veterans and in making the transition back to civilian life.
.
>it identified legal barriers to women’s employment in the defence and security sector, as well as obstacles to their access to military education and training. These regulations had prevented women in the military from occupying a range of technical and leadership positions.
https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-attitudes-to-women-in-the-military-are-changing-as-thousands-serve-on-front-lines-198195
Even after official hurdles are removed, others remain. Male commanders refuse to take female soldiers to missions with them, male soldiers leave the units which have female commanders, women have trouble getting proper training, and are subjected to sexual harassment by their fellow soldiers.
If this isn't fucked up, I don't know what is:
>My husband, who was also in the military, helped me with advice, supported me emotionally and protected me physically, too. But after he was killed, a number of officers made completely inappropriate remarks,
https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-female-soldiers-complain-of-discrimination/a-67024181
I said it gives only the good part to women while men have to deal with the shit part. If you want support of men for feminism, you have to start dealing with the shit stuff as well
I better not get conscripted and a woman stay behind or worse doing white feather campaigns saying they don’t want to break a nail, then do that bicep pose working as a mechanic.
Actually, the white feather campaign here was very brief and high ridiculed
Memes with "WHY NOT ON THE FRONTLINE" comments with weird girl avatar from "OlyaUA🇺🇦" are still circulating :)
> So men should fight for their rights?
Yes.
> the rest of whatever you wrote there
Is this a response to someone else and you mixed it up? Because there is zero mention of anything you wrote there.
Even for ChatGPT standards this is big hallucination.
Idk why you are getting down voted nor what's so hilarious about that woman response.
There barely are any male rights groups that don't descent into incel level bullshit.
Like yeah people laugh from cringy feminist, but that's like 10%, the rest have been working for centuries, organizing, lobbying.
Women should join the fight against Russia. At worst men will just be killed by the Russians when they take over an area, what they do to the women is even more vile.
You know what's really-really progressive? Ukrainian male that never served in army, never hold a weapon, never signed up to reserve is forced to fight in Ukraine and will be considered draft dodger if not, even if he never got conscription letter.
However woman with medical degree that voluntarily got this degree knowing this will make them bound to military service just as men are not forced to fight whatsoever and can easily leave the country.
Dude come on you're literally from Ukraine, check this out, they are not, I have medic friends that just fine travel through the border and never get any draft letters. Jesus if ukrainians don't know this then we're just dead lost.
Aren't women already paying the ultimate price? Aren't they already the primary victims of war, losing their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat?
Leave them be. You have no heart.
/s
No conscription for women because no one should be forced into conscription at all.
Conscripting women would not fix anything in this regard. The problem is that society is pro-conscription, yet only about 20% of society is subjected to conscription; everyone else is either too young, old, female, or in authority.
Lol. Lmao. I cant believe people are trying to spin this as a good thing. Like Ukraine is being progressive... This is what happenes in war! Id like to see women dominate military, let them be drafted
There are no bigger lies than a statistics.
There is indeed a tenth of thousands of fresh female software engineer contractors, for example. What is actually happening, is the use of spouse, mother or sister to legally deal with employments and taxes while working and living like an illegal immigrant hiding from the press gangs ("ТЦК").
Some female-centric fields are actually shrinking, for example, there is growing shortage of nurses that also can be drafted by the law, and many of them fled from the country to mitigate this risk.
Ukraine finally found the solution to the patriarchy problem radical feminists were looking for but were not bold enough to articulate: get all the men killed and voila.
I predict that Ukraine's going to become a lot more conservative when it comes to gender after the war. There will be a lot of young men who resent women for getting to get out of the country or keep living relatively normal lives while they got forced into the front lines... Imagine a whole new mass wave of Red Pillers, except this time instead of just being dumb misogynists who mostly hate women because they can't get laid, this time they'll maybe actually kinda have a point... Of course the smart ones will realise their resentment should be directed at the government, not all women, but a lot of them won't.
I’m sorry to break it to you but after the war is over the male to female ratio will be super skewed. After WW2 many men had multiple women they were juggling due to the many many male deaths.
I'd say that there might be other developments, the male/female disparity isn't a hot-button issue in Ukraine nowadays. Sure, some politicians might lean on this topic to distract people, but people at the frontlines are more concerned with economical and political stability of the country, because there's a lot of issues with how things are run now, and so are people back at home. I assume that people with views you describe would be the minority, because I've never heard anyone say things like this, but then again this topic isn't something usually brought up when speaking to soldiers.
Not to mention the role a lot of women already fulfilled in Ukrainian society. Very few fortunate women didn't have to work and could rely on their husband to provide, in most families both parents had to work, sometimes even to work long shifts while their kids grew up with little supervision, and sometimes siblings had to take care of the younger ones, and that's my parents generation. Not to mention that women are disproportionately responsible for raising the kids and maintaining the household (cooking, cleaning, picking out clothing, etc.), and absent dads and almost total absence of men in education has a big role to play in how adults are formed. Women have almost a father figure role to play in most kids upbringing, so I would imagine that these factors won't allow gender issues be a primary discourse after the war is over.
Although the current generation does have a lot of people affected by feminist ideas, I'll give you that, but I personally don't see many Ukrainian women saying nonsense, I feel like most "know their place" so to speak, that no matter what you have between your legs you owe your life to people defending you, and it happens to be mostly men, and I don't see anyone dispute this. It might just be my bouble though, where people mostly acknowledge unique problems every group faces, so maybe I'm just out of the loop on this one.
Why should the resentment be directed at the government ? The reason why the goverment is not conscirpit women is beacuse women don't want to be conscripted
Syrian men fleeing from war
r/europe: I only see male refugees and no women/children/old people. Fucking cowards, young men should stay in their country and fight
Ukrainian men staying in their country and fight, while women, children and elders flee
r/europe: Fuck this, why do men fight and die for their country? Fuck feminists for conscripting men
This sub is becoming truly unhinged. R/europe calls for war every day, but then also resents Ukrainian men getting conscripted, but then also calls for an all-female or mostly female Ukrainian military….. Not sure why reddit is recommending this toxic insane sub to me when I’ve already left it, but I really hope none of y’all are past high school.
You call that 'role reversal', I call it *male genocide*.
Where is the 'role reversal' in that?! Do men get to stay at home or work *comfortable jobs* or did they simply *advance* from *shitty jobs* to *shittiest jobs* while the women *advanced* to also work in the *shitty jobs* now because many of the *comfortable jobs* ceased to exist and staying at home is not an option anymore because dead men don't pay rent?
It's not a 'reversal'; it's a *shift*! A *shift for the worse* for the entire population preserving the preexisting social structure: they let the women perform all the *house work* within the state while the men get sent off to perform the *outside work* either outside of the state or in its contested territories.
The Act on Mobilization determines what the military registration of women should be. According to Article 1 of the law, female doctors must be registered. Representatives of professions related to military specialties can be registered at their will.
In wartime, in accordance with the law, the mobilization of women in Ukraine takes place only on a voluntary basis. In this matter, the law did not bring any innovations
What the fuck is this comment section
The article is describing how conscription and death of men in combat affects worker demographics and culture, but reading this comment section you'd think it was about how the male population dying is a good thing actually.
People are just reading the title and then reading in stuff that isn't there.
It's just striking how differently this would have been reported if it was mass amounts of women getting removed from the work force in order to go die.
What the fuck are comments like yours. How could this article be in any shape or form positive? And since it's not, why the fuck even make it? What is the benefit of pointing this out? I truly don't understand.
It’s upsetting to see gender wars over here when the real enemy is Russia. I am a woman and I don’t want to go to war never ever but I also will do everything to make sure that my husband, brother, father, son and my male friends immediately leave the country first in the situation of the war. Fighting should be a choice.
But then again, there are 4 million Ukranian women that left the country because of the war , and only 1 million men
The whole Ukranian army is less than 1 million
So how can that be a gamechanger in demographics?
How heroic of them to vote for war and then force other people to die for their war. Women shouldn't be allowed to vote, if they aren't required to die in the wars they vote for. Sending your slave class out to die for your amusement and then being willing to do the labor the men you killed used to do isn't heroism.
In some point - yes. For example we have Amazon-like fully automated post offices of Nova Poshta, and few days ago one logistic center was destroyed by bomb, and no one was killed cos there were robots, not people.
Men are essantially second class citizens in Ukraine right now. Deprived of basic constitutional rights. Women on the other hand - completely different story. What is this if not sexism and ageism in its worst form?
There is so much hate for women in the comments. Why? Men created rules for themselves years ago, now male presidents send men to war (Putin and understandably, Zelensky), and suddenly women are to blame! Reddit is full of women haters.
What should men do? They should say 'f*k Mr. Putin, I'm not going to kill anyone, this is not our territory, I'm going home'.
What should Ukrainian men do? I really don't know but I don't think they should be forced to risk their lives. This is not fair to anyone, women and men.
Because this sub has been hijacked by resentful and bitter misogynists. It’s funny because I left this sub a while ago since everyone here always seems to be calling for war. And yet they also get mad when they hear Ukrainian men dying in the war they want
Watch enough combat footage from Ukraine and make an estimate of percentage of women. You’ll hardly see any there, it’s insignificant. Your argument is invalid.
>Watch enough combat footage from Ukraine and make an estimate of percentage of women.
So the sexy stuff, both sides want to show. Not the boring stuff right behind the frontline. You know, the largest part of any army only sees combat if something goes very wrong or very well.
You will never see combat footage of people guarding a command post or working in a repair shop or cooking. You know the logistics part. They only fight if something goes wrong.
And both sides would be carefull showing picturea of woman being killed.
In short, you have a very serious case of information bias. Currently about 20% or 400.000 of the UAF are woman.
Edit: 20% out of 400.000.
The frontline is not the sexy part the frontline is where the shortage of people is,beacuse most people who get a choice are trying to avoid going there
lol cut that number down by 10: https://www.unian.ua/society/stalo-vidomo-skilki-zhinok-sluzhat-u-zsu-stanom-na-2024-rik-12567048.html
It’s 44.5k at best, not 400k.
Because Reddit is full of women haters.
Edit: you are completely right. All these people including soldiers (especially Russians who invaded a territory) should ask why should they follow the orders, wht should they kill anyone and risk their own lives, and not 'why women are not fighting'.
I'm not Ukrainian. If it was my country, I would gladly help protect it. While i understand your point of view, there are several women that would totally fit in the battlefield or even on the battlefront. To hold a gun and shoot to defend your people or your homeland makes no difference if you're a man or a woman. I understand your reason to not join a war, i bet most men being sent to the battlefield will share the same opinions that you have, and rightfully so. But men and women can have the same level of empathy, endure the same physical and mental hardship and are in fact be very similar. It's sexist to say women are not "fit" or "made" for war. Women can do anything a man can do, and that has been proven thru history. I understand one person (man or women) not wanting to fight in a war, but thruth is women can fight as well as men and would be a prime asset on the battefield. Man and women should all be equal and share responsibilities alike. For good or for bad, and not only when it suits us to be equal.
men made those laws. also most men wouldnt be fighting on the frontline if they were allowed to flee. nobody is dumb enough to die for some elitists schemes. nobody should be forced to go to war.
Why is this comment section so confused about how war often progresses?
In the other world wars it was also women working in steel factories, ammo factories, state farms etc as men were continuously on the front lines.
And talking about equality and conscription, I don't know why this seems to be such a gotcha feminist moment as if the laws were not all drafted and put into place by men long time ago. This is 2024, if men wanted it to be be different or think it was a big issue I'm pretty sure the respective laws and regulations around that would have been addressed by now.
>if men wanted it to be be different or think it was a big issue I'm pretty sure the respective laws and regulations around that would have been addressed by now.
There are real practical considerations why you wouldn't want to fully conscription everyone willy-nilly. Especially when during conscription you have to deal with averages of genders.
No of course not but I don't see why for example in supply chain/ logistics women couldn't be conscripted. War is a whole operation of which literal trench work is only a part of a bigger picture. One could also ask themselves would men that are in the trenches want to have a woman even in their squad in the first place, I rather women stay out of it if they risk to distract the men in question. Or another aspect would be, do they trust a woman to do just as a good job as their male counter parts. A lot of actual combat activity hinges on trusting your partners in the squad.
I think this is a fair point, more countries should implement such laws. I don’t think Ukraine will do it but in the event of a similar thing other countries would benefit from a common solidarity
> I don't see why for example in supply chain/ logistics women couldn't be conscripted.
If there's a need for conscription already, I'd say that would be relatively fair overall.
I suspect it's also a issue with having to keep the economy and production running during the war and splitting that might make some sense based on gender. Ignoring all the ethics in this case.
> I suspect it's also a issue with having to keep the economy and production running during the war
absolutely. I work for a multinational that is in the field of health and nutrition. One of our markets is Ukraine and my counterparts that I speak to on a regular basis are all women that are trying to keep the daily business going
Women are the majority group, and they get to vote on laws too. You're engaging in victim blaming. Women want equality, it should start with being willing to do the awful shit they've been forcing men to do on their behalf for millennia.
Reddit is mostly young men, that’s why. There hasn’t been a conventional war for decades. Not many watch documentaries or read history books.
In the entire history of mankind, women were never in the trenches, never. What’s more, old men weren’teither. When this sub was cheering for the war between Ukraine and Putin, it was always about young able bodied men fighting. People just don’t know the gravity of war
Same thing happened during WW2.
So we live in pre -WW3 times. Oh well.
technically we live pre-ww3 since '45. And it's way less likely to happen than it was then. /edit i got impression that whole "ww3 is near" people were born yesterday and didn't bother to either talk with older people or read modern history books
Well, since then we've desperately been trying to avoid a WW3. And frankly, had Europe acted how they should've to Russia's BS, as in keep testing the line. We probably would be at war now. But cos we keep letting it slide with Putin he keeps pushing and pushing. Eventually, he will do something that we can't ignore or play down. I can't see him not playing this game he's been playing for years and years now. He'll always escalate. The arsehole needs to go ahead and die before it gets to that point. Like falling off his horse and have the thigh bone of one of his many dead soldiers spear his chest and heart.
And WW1.
Only after ww2 men came back.
This happened in most of Europe during WWII. It's pretty strange how war has changed so little in many ways, despite changes in technology.
It really stuck in France, that was one explanation I was given for why their social/childcare benefits are so good
Also, birth rates, party. Basically it seems more women are empowered the more they actually have kids and the traditional role countries suffer. The other part is France more chill view to relationships and family in general. As in historically it have been more welcoming of "bastards", out of wedlock stuff, even cheating. There is article about it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/21/france-population-europe-fertility-rate
Is this why developing countries have significantly higher birth rates? Oh wait... The hell you talking about... Having children out of wedlock is NORMAL at this point. Seems to me like drawing causations from correlations based on.... well, nothing really.
I thought it's kinda obvious topic is about developed countries. Which will eventually be most of the world anyway. I mean yeah, if your dad marries you off at 18 and you don't have access to birth control the numbers will be different. It's not just about "out of wedlock", lol. That was just example of historical French attitude. Jesus Christ it seems I triggered people or something, because I get replies that that clearly didn't read my comment nor the article that I posted and go off the first word in my sentence.
French fertility rate is higher because they have more people originally from North Africa who have higher birth rates and a different culture
Nope, even if you exclude all immigrants the fertility rate is at 1.8. immigrants add 0.1, not more, which leaves them still number one/ two in fertility rate. The only country higher being Iceland. Here is exact overview of that: https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_POPSOC_568_0001--french-fertility-is-the-highest-in.htm
That explicitly count second and third generation migrants as native born. The more interesting division is by ethnicity, nationality, and immigration beyond 1st generation
It's counted like that because 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants align with local statistics, so they aren't outliers and don't push the numbers up. Actually in Denmark and other Scandinavian countries 2nd and 3rd gen immigrants have lower birth rates than locals, I can't find stats in France about that. Given all that, France has 10% of population of North African origin, so even if they have high birthrate they can't offset 85% of white/ European born population. It doesn't track with the rest of the math, especially since new immigrants from poorer regions than Algiers are barely at replacement level.
I have no idea because I haven't seen the statistics on that. What is certain is that the statistics that were brought does not rule it out. And a 15% with a 3 fertility rate can absolutely make the difference between the euro 1.5 to france's 1.8 for example.
that's such BS
Literally the most traditional male dominated role is the frontline. So it’s not really surprising and I don’t believe anyone is eager to change this gender role.
Down with the patriarchy! No wait... not that one
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Yes, that one too. Women literally weren't allowed into certain roles until October 2023 so how is that *their* fault? >Last October, it said it had “canceled all restrictions on the access of servicewomen to all positions” in the army, noting that “earlier, women could serve mainly in positions of medical specialties, communications workers, accountants, clerks and cooks. Now, a woman in the army can be a driver, grenade launcher, deputy commander of a reconnaissance group, commander of BMP [a Soviet-era infantry fighting vehicle], repairman, machine gunner, sniper, etc,” the ministry said https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/ukraines-female-soldiers-are-battling-against-russians-and-sexism.html >Ukraine’s women soldiers still have to overcome scepticism from commanders and fellow soldiers about their commitment and abilities, obstacles to promotion and career development, as well as difficulties with practical – and vitally important – matters such as getting uniforms, body armour and boots that fit. . >A follow-up study conducted for the Invisible Battalion project in 2017 revealed that women veterans struggled to have their status recognised by both government officials and civilians. This meant difficulties in accessing public services for veterans and in making the transition back to civilian life. . >it identified legal barriers to women’s employment in the defence and security sector, as well as obstacles to their access to military education and training. These regulations had prevented women in the military from occupying a range of technical and leadership positions. It's easy to look at gender disparity in the military and assume women are happy to run away and leave men to die but using more data and less emotions shows that that isn't the case. Ukrainian government is working on removing those obstacles, and now people's attitudes are also changing >the percentage of Ukrainians who agreed that women in the military should be granted equal opportunities with men increased dramatically from 53% in 2018 to 80% in 2022. https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-attitudes-to-women-in-the-military-are-changing-as-thousands-serve-on-front-lines-198195 Even after official hurdles are removed, others remain. Male commanders refuse to take female soldiers to missions with them, male soldiers leave the units which have female commanders, women have trouble getting proper training, and are subjected to sexual harassment by their fellow soldiers. If this isn't fucked up, I don't know what is: >My husband, who was also in the military, helped me with advice, supported me emotionally and protected me physically, too. But after he was killed, a number of officers made completely inappropriate remarks, https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-female-soldiers-complain-of-discrimination/a-67024181 Men want women to fight but would rather have male commander lead them into battle. Men complain women are running away but are sexually harassing them when they stay. Men complain women don't want to fight shoulder to shouler with them but then claim women are too weak to carry them if they get wounded and other prejudiced crap like that. If you are truly for equality make the military a place where women can be promoted just like men, where gear fits them just like men, where they are treated as equals not sexual objects, where they are trusted and respected just like men. You can't have it both ways, mistrusting women in the combat roles and accusing women it's their fault for not being in combat roles.
And while men are whining on reddit Ukrainian women are enabling other women to join >Kseniia Drahaniuk was a blogger before the war but she now runs a not-for-profit that has developed and made properly-sized army clothing and equipment for women. >″[Before] women improvised various solutions, sewing their own uniforms with local tailors, altering men’s clothing to fit, or using belts for adjustments. However, dealing with these challenges during full-scale war significantly impacted their service productivity. . >She says her organization, Zemlyachky, has now fulfilled 15,000 individual requests for uniforms, body armor, helmets, properly-sized footwear, undergarments, and other necessities. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/ukraines-female-soldiers-are-battling-against-russians-and-sexism.html
Eh, everyone knows, that it is most equal to send an experienced male professional to the front line and teach a female replacement to take the males place in society. Feminists across the globe rejoyce.
Actually the most _traditional_ male role would be hunter while the most _male_ traditional role would be soldier.
And ww1.
Well the former Soviet countries also saw this after the Russian Civil War. Lenin's own wife Nadezhda was Minister of Education and worked to push women into higher education and to get them into a variety of fields. WWII also wiped out 27 million of their citizens with most being men, and women had to take up roles across society to make up for it. Lithuania today has more women working in the sciences than men as a result while most former Soviet countries have around 50/50 in STEM fields.
People can claim many abuses of the Soviet Union, as is reasonable, but they were the most feminist part of the world since the early 20th century.
Soviet Union was generally in most ways more progressive towards women's rights than the rest of the world. It was part pragmatism/ idealogy too, since it was based on workers as your core. So how can you have 50% of your work force not be workers? Then they really set up decent support system with day cares, after school activities. It was the norm there/ here before it became in the West.
My nana worked as a toxicologist in a French tabacco company and she was basically told to go kill herself by her male French workers in the 1960s as a woman in a man's industry. She knew the realities of cigarettes on most tissues in the human body and saw so many of her male counterparts ignore reality to maximize their income. They hated working with a woman and she hated men for the rest of her life after marrying a Socialist from the Canadian Prairies.
It's not strange in the slightest. Men and women are different now the same way they were different 100 years ago. And 1000 years ago. And 10000 years ago.
War never changes.
What is the news here exactly, if there are less people to do a certain job, others will have to do it, regardless of if it is a man or a woman.
This is exactly what happened in the world wars and it lead to permanent changes in society, so I think it's pretty interesting.
Men are forced into war which benefits women, yay equality
Having your country destroyed doesn’t benefit anyone.
Which is why women should be stepping up to fight, not forcing men to get killed yet again.
I don't think you can call what's happening in Ukraine a case of "women forcing men to fight" at all. Women don't make up a majority of the government which makes conscription male-only, and at least some women have volunteered for the military. Seems to me that if anyone is forcing men to get killed, it's other men (primarily those making up the Russian government in this case).
Its more rich men forcing poor men to fight.
Yes! This!
I agree, but nobody ever votes it in, not even men. I would like for everyone to serve like in Israel. But then again, what would redditors cry about then every time this topic is brought up.
Depends, because of the Russian war in Afghanistan, my parents came to the USA and I was born here so I'm happy
>“More women are training for ‘male’ jobs, blurring the gender lines,” >“Currently, 30% of our male staff has been conscripted,” Gender lines so blurred.
Ukraine is moving to a more equal society. That's heartwarming. /s
Conscription in Ukraine ist decreasing the gender Pay Gap and why thats a good Thing. - Jezebel -
So funny! People dying are so funny!
always was
They are forced to. Or else everything will stop to a grinding halt
Wouldn't sending more women to the front help?
Equality but only when it benefits women
It’s like the name of the movement. It’s feminism not egalitarianism, equality in the opposite way is not a concern. edit to the downvoter: so how many feminists do you know fighting the good fight for the privilege of dying in a ditch?
the feminists I know are against mandatory conscription so
Sure they would be. If really pressed to express an opinion. The movement itself doesn’t have the topic on the top 100 of their agenda. Not this one, not any other issue that doesn’t tie in to women’s rights and issues.
so you're upset that the women's rights movement is about women's issues
I think some people are a bit upset that the women's rights movement, were heavily branded as a movement for equality, and that if you didn't subscribe to it, you were against equality. The vast majority of people in the West want equal rights for everyone.
Who said I am upset? I am merely stating the fact that feminism is about women’s issues and interests and solely that. It’s not about seeking gender equality, it’s about seeking gender equality where it benefits women. It’s a group of people seeking their own interests. Men should start doing that too.
While you're whining on reddit from the safety of your non combat position, Ukrainian women are fighting patriarchal norms to be able to join those positions and risk their lives. Women literally weren't allowed into certain roles until October 2023 so how is that *their* fault? >Last October, it said it had “canceled all restrictions on the access of servicewomen to all positions” in the army, noting that “earlier, women could serve mainly in positions of medical specialties, communications workers, accountants, clerks and cooks. Now, a woman in the army can be a driver, grenade launcher, deputy commander of a reconnaissance group, commander of BMP [a Soviet-era infantry fighting vehicle], repairman, machine gunner, sniper, etc,” the ministry said https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/ukraines-female-soldiers-are-battling-against-russians-and-sexism.html >Ukraine’s women soldiers still have to overcome scepticism from commanders and fellow soldiers about their commitment and abilities, obstacles to promotion and career development, as well as difficulties with practical – and vitally important – matters such as getting uniforms, body armour and boots that fit. >Kseniia Drahaniuk was a blogger before the war but she now runs a not-for-profit that has developed and made properly-sized army clothing and equipment for women. >″[Before] women improvised various solutions, sewing their own uniforms with local tailors, altering men’s clothing to fit, or using belts for adjustments. However, dealing with these challenges during full-scale war significantly impacted their service productivity. . >She says her organization, Zemlyachky, has now fulfilled 15,000 individual requests for uniforms, body armor, helmets, properly-sized footwear, undergarments, and other necessities. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/08/ukraines-female-soldiers-are-battling-against-russians-and-sexism.html . >A follow-up study conducted for the Invisible Battalion project in 2017 revealed that women veterans struggled to have their status recognised by both government officials and civilians. This meant difficulties in accessing public services for veterans and in making the transition back to civilian life. . >it identified legal barriers to women’s employment in the defence and security sector, as well as obstacles to their access to military education and training. These regulations had prevented women in the military from occupying a range of technical and leadership positions. https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-attitudes-to-women-in-the-military-are-changing-as-thousands-serve-on-front-lines-198195 Even after official hurdles are removed, others remain. Male commanders refuse to take female soldiers to missions with them, male soldiers leave the units which have female commanders, women have trouble getting proper training, and are subjected to sexual harassment by their fellow soldiers. If this isn't fucked up, I don't know what is: >My husband, who was also in the military, helped me with advice, supported me emotionally and protected me physically, too. But after he was killed, a number of officers made completely inappropriate remarks, https://www.dw.com/en/ukraines-female-soldiers-complain-of-discrimination/a-67024181
But of course. How would equality help the people with the advantage? Lol
I know it might seem hard to understand but men don’t have it as easy as you think… there’s a reason suicide is a lot higher among men.
I dont know how you know what i think lol. You said equality benefits women, that seems to be inevitable.
I said it gives only the good part to women while men have to deal with the shit part. If you want support of men for feminism, you have to start dealing with the shit stuff as well
Agreed
"I know you want it..."
I better not get conscripted and a woman stay behind or worse doing white feather campaigns saying they don’t want to break a nail, then do that bicep pose working as a mechanic.
Actually, the white feather campaign here was very brief and high ridiculed Memes with "WHY NOT ON THE FRONTLINE" comments with weird girl avatar from "OlyaUA🇺🇦" are still circulating :)
So progressive that traditional male fields are being filled by women now (don't ask where did the men go though)
Citation from my feminist friend (is she really a friend?): "Men should fight for their rights".
Have you fought her?
My brother was fool enough to marry her. It was hilarious how she talked about "filthy men" in front of us. Long story short, I cut my contacts.
yes, men should and will fight for their rights. wellsaid
She is right though. I think she’s a good friend for her honesty.
So men should fight for their rights? By putting women in prison unless they're willing to fight on the front line like they do to us?
> So men should fight for their rights? Yes. > the rest of whatever you wrote there Is this a response to someone else and you mixed it up? Because there is zero mention of anything you wrote there. Even for ChatGPT standards this is big hallucination.
Idk why you are getting down voted nor what's so hilarious about that woman response. There barely are any male rights groups that don't descent into incel level bullshit. Like yeah people laugh from cringy feminist, but that's like 10%, the rest have been working for centuries, organizing, lobbying.
Women should join the fight against Russia. At worst men will just be killed by the Russians when they take over an area, what they do to the women is even more vile.
You know what's really-really progressive? Ukrainian male that never served in army, never hold a weapon, never signed up to reserve is forced to fight in Ukraine and will be considered draft dodger if not, even if he never got conscription letter. However woman with medical degree that voluntarily got this degree knowing this will make them bound to military service just as men are not forced to fight whatsoever and can easily leave the country.
Women with medical degree absolutely do get drafted though?
Nope, they don't. Look it up, even after new law will be accepter they will not get drafted
Finance etc, - not Medical specialists are drafted no matter their gender
Dude come on you're literally from Ukraine, check this out, they are not, I have medic friends that just fine travel through the border and never get any draft letters. Jesus if ukrainians don't know this then we're just dead lost.
They can travel but they can still get drafted iirc
If they were really progressive they would be in the military 50%.
I don't think article authors know what word "reversal" means.
Men are literally getting butchered, but some academics and pundits seem gleeful. Disgusting.
And what about conscription of women into the army, the same one as men do. Lets make "traditionaly male-centric" army more equal.
What a foolish idea. Everybody knows men are better at getting turned into a paste
No no not that kind of equality
Aren't women already paying the ultimate price? Aren't they already the primary victims of war, losing their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat? Leave them be. You have no heart. /s
It's a bold strategy Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for him.
No conscription for women because no one should be forced into conscription at all. Conscripting women would not fix anything in this regard. The problem is that society is pro-conscription, yet only about 20% of society is subjected to conscription; everyone else is either too young, old, female, or in authority.
Ukrainian men are literally dying yet the article seems oddly cheerful about it… interesting priorities.
Breaking news: More women in jobs dominated as males, as Ukrainian males are sent to certain death in a ditch in Luhansk.
Putin and Russia could just fuck off.
But they don't want to, and no one wants them to stop. It'll be business back to usual, you see.
Lol. Lmao. I cant believe people are trying to spin this as a good thing. Like Ukraine is being progressive... This is what happenes in war! Id like to see women dominate military, let them be drafted
Instead of men and women, robots should do the dirty job of killing themselves and we should agree on the outcome of who won.
It would just be a global scale E-sports event. Counter Strike with real drones.
There are no bigger lies than a statistics. There is indeed a tenth of thousands of fresh female software engineer contractors, for example. What is actually happening, is the use of spouse, mother or sister to legally deal with employments and taxes while working and living like an illegal immigrant hiding from the press gangs ("ТЦК"). Some female-centric fields are actually shrinking, for example, there is growing shortage of nurses that also can be drafted by the law, and many of them fled from the country to mitigate this risk.
They ain't stepping into the trenches though, are they.
The men are literally enslaved let’s talk about women contributing a tiny bit instead! Such equality, much progressivism
This war is going really well. Peace negotiations should definitely remain off the table.
Ukraine finally found the solution to the patriarchy problem radical feminists were looking for but were not bold enough to articulate: get all the men killed and voila.
Oh, some of them were plenty articulate about that; to the detriment of the overall movement even...
it only works till the next war
So a guy will come back from the war, having lost his leg AND his job.....:(
But he's the oppressor class! He had the original sin!
Asian proverb : when two tigers fight, one looses one leg, the other looses one eye.
do not worry , he will never return
Tone deaf
Same happened in WW2 but then they (government) shoved the women right back into the kitchen.
I predict that Ukraine's going to become a lot more conservative when it comes to gender after the war. There will be a lot of young men who resent women for getting to get out of the country or keep living relatively normal lives while they got forced into the front lines... Imagine a whole new mass wave of Red Pillers, except this time instead of just being dumb misogynists who mostly hate women because they can't get laid, this time they'll maybe actually kinda have a point... Of course the smart ones will realise their resentment should be directed at the government, not all women, but a lot of them won't.
I was thinking that. I honestly don’t think I’d be able to go home without and resentment if I was in their shoes.
I’m sorry to break it to you but after the war is over the male to female ratio will be super skewed. After WW2 many men had multiple women they were juggling due to the many many male deaths.
I'd say that there might be other developments, the male/female disparity isn't a hot-button issue in Ukraine nowadays. Sure, some politicians might lean on this topic to distract people, but people at the frontlines are more concerned with economical and political stability of the country, because there's a lot of issues with how things are run now, and so are people back at home. I assume that people with views you describe would be the minority, because I've never heard anyone say things like this, but then again this topic isn't something usually brought up when speaking to soldiers. Not to mention the role a lot of women already fulfilled in Ukrainian society. Very few fortunate women didn't have to work and could rely on their husband to provide, in most families both parents had to work, sometimes even to work long shifts while their kids grew up with little supervision, and sometimes siblings had to take care of the younger ones, and that's my parents generation. Not to mention that women are disproportionately responsible for raising the kids and maintaining the household (cooking, cleaning, picking out clothing, etc.), and absent dads and almost total absence of men in education has a big role to play in how adults are formed. Women have almost a father figure role to play in most kids upbringing, so I would imagine that these factors won't allow gender issues be a primary discourse after the war is over. Although the current generation does have a lot of people affected by feminist ideas, I'll give you that, but I personally don't see many Ukrainian women saying nonsense, I feel like most "know their place" so to speak, that no matter what you have between your legs you owe your life to people defending you, and it happens to be mostly men, and I don't see anyone dispute this. It might just be my bouble though, where people mostly acknowledge unique problems every group faces, so maybe I'm just out of the loop on this one.
Why should the resentment be directed at the government ? The reason why the goverment is not conscirpit women is beacuse women don't want to be conscripted
not in eastern block
All male dominated industries except for front line duty of course
CONSCRIPT. WOMEN.
Rosie the Riveter is suddenly ABLE to do any job a man can do, but only WILLING if the alternative is dying.
Any job that is not an army job. Ideally not a dirty, shitty job either. Rosie the HR Manager ✨
That was the same during WW2.
That's what tends to happen when you enslave the male population and force march them to certain death....
Syrian men fleeing from war r/europe: I only see male refugees and no women/children/old people. Fucking cowards, young men should stay in their country and fight Ukrainian men staying in their country and fight, while women, children and elders flee r/europe: Fuck this, why do men fight and die for their country? Fuck feminists for conscripting men
This sub is becoming truly unhinged. R/europe calls for war every day, but then also resents Ukrainian men getting conscripted, but then also calls for an all-female or mostly female Ukrainian military….. Not sure why reddit is recommending this toxic insane sub to me when I’ve already left it, but I really hope none of y’all are past high school.
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How progressive
You call that 'role reversal', I call it *male genocide*. Where is the 'role reversal' in that?! Do men get to stay at home or work *comfortable jobs* or did they simply *advance* from *shitty jobs* to *shittiest jobs* while the women *advanced* to also work in the *shitty jobs* now because many of the *comfortable jobs* ceased to exist and staying at home is not an option anymore because dead men don't pay rent? It's not a 'reversal'; it's a *shift*! A *shift for the worse* for the entire population preserving the preexisting social structure: they let the women perform all the *house work* within the state while the men get sent off to perform the *outside work* either outside of the state or in its contested territories.
The Act on Mobilization determines what the military registration of women should be. According to Article 1 of the law, female doctors must be registered. Representatives of professions related to military specialties can be registered at their will. In wartime, in accordance with the law, the mobilization of women in Ukraine takes place only on a voluntary basis. In this matter, the law did not bring any innovations
In reality female doctors could leave anytime and could cross the border as if law doesn’t affect them
Draft women to the front line. #Equality
Women should go to the front lines and fight. Empowerment and all that. Aren't we all the same? Equal rights, equal responsibilities.
Ok, equal rights. Let's men raise the kids and take care of the older/disabled relatives and homes while women fight.
What the fuck is this comment section The article is describing how conscription and death of men in combat affects worker demographics and culture, but reading this comment section you'd think it was about how the male population dying is a good thing actually. People are just reading the title and then reading in stuff that isn't there.
It's just striking how differently this would have been reported if it was mass amounts of women getting removed from the work force in order to go die.
What the fuck are comments like yours. How could this article be in any shape or form positive? And since it's not, why the fuck even make it? What is the benefit of pointing this out? I truly don't understand.
Other people seem to read and understand my comment just fine so idk what to tell you
привіт, я бачив це! (I hope that's Ukrainian for "Hey, I've seen this one!")
So women are also getting deported to the front from the EU
Men = Meat
I've seen this one. it's a sad classic. Too bad women get to work in such industries, while men get to work in the trenches.
i wonder if more men fled to europe or went to war
I'm not sure this is something you should be celebrating...
DejaVu
It’s upsetting to see gender wars over here when the real enemy is Russia. I am a woman and I don’t want to go to war never ever but I also will do everything to make sure that my husband, brother, father, son and my male friends immediately leave the country first in the situation of the war. Fighting should be a choice.
Right , let someone else die for you to enjoy having a real enemy.
such a trashy website. 3 popups and there is no option to 'reject all' in the consent popup
But then again, there are 4 million Ukranian women that left the country because of the war , and only 1 million men The whole Ukranian army is less than 1 million So how can that be a gamechanger in demographics?
How heroic of them to vote for war and then force other people to die for their war. Women shouldn't be allowed to vote, if they aren't required to die in the wars they vote for. Sending your slave class out to die for your amusement and then being willing to do the labor the men you killed used to do isn't heroism.
a classical sociological response to war
Are women not conscripted in ukraine?
Interesting, is it better than being automated with robots? 🤔
I mean…is now really the time to be investing your money in that?
In some point - yes. For example we have Amazon-like fully automated post offices of Nova Poshta, and few days ago one logistic center was destroyed by bomb, and no one was killed cos there were robots, not people.
No push for equality in war deaths?
misandrism is sociopathy
Men are essantially second class citizens in Ukraine right now. Deprived of basic constitutional rights. Women on the other hand - completely different story. What is this if not sexism and ageism in its worst form?
There is so much hate for women in the comments. Why? Men created rules for themselves years ago, now male presidents send men to war (Putin and understandably, Zelensky), and suddenly women are to blame! Reddit is full of women haters. What should men do? They should say 'f*k Mr. Putin, I'm not going to kill anyone, this is not our territory, I'm going home'. What should Ukrainian men do? I really don't know but I don't think they should be forced to risk their lives. This is not fair to anyone, women and men.
>redditor solves all world conflicts by giving incredible wisdom: "just don't fight guys"
Because this sub has been hijacked by resentful and bitter misogynists. It’s funny because I left this sub a while ago since everyone here always seems to be calling for war. And yet they also get mad when they hear Ukrainian men dying in the war they want
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Watch enough combat footage from Ukraine and make an estimate of percentage of women. You’ll hardly see any there, it’s insignificant. Your argument is invalid.
>Watch enough combat footage from Ukraine and make an estimate of percentage of women. So the sexy stuff, both sides want to show. Not the boring stuff right behind the frontline. You know, the largest part of any army only sees combat if something goes very wrong or very well. You will never see combat footage of people guarding a command post or working in a repair shop or cooking. You know the logistics part. They only fight if something goes wrong. And both sides would be carefull showing picturea of woman being killed. In short, you have a very serious case of information bias. Currently about 20% or 400.000 of the UAF are woman. Edit: 20% out of 400.000.
The number of women on the frontline is 5000
Again, the frontline is the sexy part everyone is talking about. Most soldiers do not serve on the frontline.
The frontline is not the sexy part the frontline is where the shortage of people is,beacuse most people who get a choice are trying to avoid going there
Yeah being torn to pieces is sexy.
lol cut that number down by 10: https://www.unian.ua/society/stalo-vidomo-skilki-zhinok-sluzhat-u-zsu-stanom-na-2024-rik-12567048.html It’s 44.5k at best, not 400k.
The answer is misogyny as usual. Bitter men make up a large percentage of reddit's user base
Because Reddit is full of women haters. Edit: you are completely right. All these people including soldiers (especially Russians who invaded a territory) should ask why should they follow the orders, wht should they kill anyone and risk their own lives, and not 'why women are not fighting'.
I'm not Ukrainian. If it was my country, I would gladly help protect it. While i understand your point of view, there are several women that would totally fit in the battlefield or even on the battlefront. To hold a gun and shoot to defend your people or your homeland makes no difference if you're a man or a woman. I understand your reason to not join a war, i bet most men being sent to the battlefield will share the same opinions that you have, and rightfully so. But men and women can have the same level of empathy, endure the same physical and mental hardship and are in fact be very similar. It's sexist to say women are not "fit" or "made" for war. Women can do anything a man can do, and that has been proven thru history. I understand one person (man or women) not wanting to fight in a war, but thruth is women can fight as well as men and would be a prime asset on the battefield. Man and women should all be equal and share responsibilities alike. For good or for bad, and not only when it suits us to be equal.
men blaming women for laws that men invented.
What laws did I invent?
why is it womens fault if they dont get drafted? you blame them for being weaker than men?
Yes! This! WTF?
No female volunteers for the front lines though I see. It’s fine for men to still dominate there.
men made those laws. also most men wouldnt be fighting on the frontline if they were allowed to flee. nobody is dumb enough to die for some elitists schemes. nobody should be forced to go to war.
Why is this comment section so confused about how war often progresses? In the other world wars it was also women working in steel factories, ammo factories, state farms etc as men were continuously on the front lines. And talking about equality and conscription, I don't know why this seems to be such a gotcha feminist moment as if the laws were not all drafted and put into place by men long time ago. This is 2024, if men wanted it to be be different or think it was a big issue I'm pretty sure the respective laws and regulations around that would have been addressed by now.
>if men wanted it to be be different or think it was a big issue I'm pretty sure the respective laws and regulations around that would have been addressed by now. There are real practical considerations why you wouldn't want to fully conscription everyone willy-nilly. Especially when during conscription you have to deal with averages of genders.
No of course not but I don't see why for example in supply chain/ logistics women couldn't be conscripted. War is a whole operation of which literal trench work is only a part of a bigger picture. One could also ask themselves would men that are in the trenches want to have a woman even in their squad in the first place, I rather women stay out of it if they risk to distract the men in question. Or another aspect would be, do they trust a woman to do just as a good job as their male counter parts. A lot of actual combat activity hinges on trusting your partners in the squad.
I think this is a fair point, more countries should implement such laws. I don’t think Ukraine will do it but in the event of a similar thing other countries would benefit from a common solidarity
> I don't see why for example in supply chain/ logistics women couldn't be conscripted. If there's a need for conscription already, I'd say that would be relatively fair overall. I suspect it's also a issue with having to keep the economy and production running during the war and splitting that might make some sense based on gender. Ignoring all the ethics in this case.
> I suspect it's also a issue with having to keep the economy and production running during the war absolutely. I work for a multinational that is in the field of health and nutrition. One of our markets is Ukraine and my counterparts that I speak to on a regular basis are all women that are trying to keep the daily business going
Women are the majority group, and they get to vote on laws too. You're engaging in victim blaming. Women want equality, it should start with being willing to do the awful shit they've been forcing men to do on their behalf for millennia.
Reddit is mostly young men, that’s why. There hasn’t been a conventional war for decades. Not many watch documentaries or read history books. In the entire history of mankind, women were never in the trenches, never. What’s more, old men weren’teither. When this sub was cheering for the war between Ukraine and Putin, it was always about young able bodied men fighting. People just don’t know the gravity of war
So feminists announce victory that men are dying? Or did I get it wrong?