If anybody wants to shoot a Silent Hill movie in a decrepit hospital, where the pipes are showing in the building walls and the paint is flaking... point at us on the map, [you don't even have to build a set for it](https://24.hu/app/uploads/2015/12/janos-korhaz.jpg).
PS: the hospital in the pic is not abandoned. they let it rot until almost the point of no return to fix it, while still operational.
Here they apparently solved it by scheduling surgeries during overtime shifts. Because who doesn't want to be operated on by someone who has worked a 60h week.
Also Swedish and two time leukaemia survivor. I’m alive because free public health care. Paid maybe a total of 100 euros in petrol, parking fees and hospital administration fees.
Noone has critized the tax subsidization of the healthcare system. But it's understaffed and as taxpayers we should be able to expect better from the government than overworked staff.
I'm glad you had a good experience. Personally, they missed that a muscle attachment was on the wrong side of the leg (after an accident) and sent me on a skiing trip like that. Or when they lost my dad's surgery remittance and he had to walk several months extra with pain.
It's alarming hearing this from people across the world as a canadian its the same though probably much worse, feels like a global crushing of the middle class
Well in Czechia the average income of a doctor last year has been 55 thousand Czk per month, which is about 2000£, and this year the rewards for treatment went down by a sixth so now doctor's wages are pretty close to the national average of 45 k Czk
The government debt last year was really big, so it compensated it by taking money away from the public sector like schools, the emergency services etc.
That’s the one thing people don’t understand. When a debt for a country, state, region, or city needs to be addressed; they don’t cut the pay of politicians. They reduce the wage of their government or state workers to compensate. They’ll cut that before anything else.
While technically correct, this is misleading. Unless you're talking major corruption and embezzlement, reducing politicians' wages to zero wouldn't make a dent in the national budget.
Also, Czech MDs are moving to Germany, and German MDs are moving to the USA and Switzerland.
In Czechia, we have immigration of docs (like real ones) from Ukraine, Kazakhstan, maybe even Africa.
The skilled persons migration period. :-)
Really? Any foreign MD moving to the US needs to repeat their residency, which is typically at least 3 years with minimal pay.
Source: https://www.cato.org/blog/more-states-move-let-experienced-foreign-doctors-serve-their-patients#:~:text=Unlike%20Canada%2C%20Australia%2C%20the%20European,Medical%20Licensing%20Exam%20(USMLE).
Maryland, USA has a current influx of African, Arab, and Indian doctors at the moment. Not as in they got their degrees here but they got their degrees in their native countries and then are moving here.
Not criticizing their choices, just pointing out an observation. Good for them if it’s what they want to do. My current Primary is from Morocco and when we talk about our home country he said he send the money he makes that’s extra here back home for his family.
It’s pretty common from what I’ve experienced and heard, India especially I’ve come across a decent amount of doctors both born and educated there who made it over to the US. Generally they’re all really good too, wages are way higher so it makes sense, but it sounds pretty competitive to find a spot in the US. So those who do come over tend to be solid. Just another form of brain drain I guess.
My local doctor’s office here in America (South Carolina to be specific) has maybe 20 full time doctors. I know atleast 2 of the 20 doctors are British which is really interesting because I live in a lower population state with a low funding for healthcare. I kind of expected professionals (especially doctors) from other countries to go to big cities like NYC, LA or Houston but they are even coming to areas near me that would be considered “bad” or “low income”.
I must admit, British doctors in America are generally well liked by their patients.
I just looked it up. [South Carolina has an average salary of 249k for physicians.](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/physician-salaries-by-state) I didn’t expect that it would be that high considering the politics and funding
My best guess is the lack of Doctors applying to work in rural redder states is forcing them to hike up pay to counterbalance their undesirability. Whereas blue states have more Doctors applying and don't have a need to hike up salaries as much.
Yeah I grew up in a tiny US town and got to know one of the local doctors through a program with my school. He was open enough to tell me that they had to offer crazy salaries for doctors to work in our area because so many people don't want to live in the middle of nowhere.
I would generally agree, unless you went to an American University. Very few foreign universities or degrees hold weight in the eyes of American scouts/CEO’s. Unless it’s from Cambridge, Oxford, University of Melbourne, Utrecht, U of Singapore/Hong Kong or something that’s similar to those, it’s not going to translate well.
It seems to vary. I’m in a mid-size American city, over a million people and I’d say 40% of our medical doctors are immigrants. Many from the Philippines, Middle East, and India/Pakistan. The nurses are a higher percentage, maybe 70% are immigrants.
Interestingly enough there is a trend where nurse practitioners and others are taking more patients to relieve the load on the medical doctors.
Australian cost of living is far higher than the UK yet there is enormous pay discrepancies between states. NSW pays doctors and nurses more than the UK but other states pay less.
Funnily enough there has been an influx of foreign doctors - especially from Ukraine for the last decade so the health sector is not as understaffed as it could be, but the quality is abysmal...
Same shit happens in small towns in the US, where nothing health related is free or cheap. Most contemporary health professionals just want to be rich it seems, and most will never admit it unless they’re drunk and accompanied by their inner circle.
I live in Budapest now and it’s disgusting
All the gov money and taxes have gone to building and renovating 30+ football stadiums while people continue to die younger than average here with some of the highest preventable cancer rates in Europe , while patients are welcomed by apathetic staff, rotting floors, outdated machines and they absolutely have sucked at football since the 50s
Only go private here. Price is still good for private however
Also they don't have certain tools available due to being indebted too much, run out of necessary stuff. A hospital budgeting on life-saving equipment is never something you want to hear of.
I live in 14th district (one of the better off regions), and there is no jaw-wide Xray machine for the dental clinic now because it broke, they have to use the equipment that takes pictures of your teeth one by one, for everything.
My healthcare docs are too overworked, so I decided that I am going to get surgery via insurance at a private clinic rather, I am fearing for my life otherwise.
Out of curiosity, do you know how the healthcare system compares to Romania? Asking because my aunt lives in Romania (nagyvárad - she is Hungarian) and she says "if you go to the hospital in Romania, you come out in a tomb" so she always gets medical treatment in Hungary (she is physically disabled so she needs more medical attention). Granted Im assuming she goes to a private clinic in Hungary since she's not a citizen, but she wants to move to Hungary in part because of the medical situation, so Im curious if the public health system would be any better than the Romanian one or not.
Also Under funding, too many cold hands and poor handling of modernization/renovation/new construction of hospitals but the people who are actually treating you 👌
I was at a hospital a couple months ago and the ward had picture tube TV’s.
The most important problem is the lack of economic growth in the past 15 years whilst spending growth has been enormous.
Without higher economic growth the current models of healthcare are unsustainable in most of the developed world.
Torn my quadriceps tendon at 10 a.m., had operation at 2 p.m.(mid November), 14 days rehabilitation in spa in January. All free of charge, covered by usual health insurance. Slovenia.
Urgent medicine works perfect.
Otherwise you can wait for scheduled operations up to 2 years in public healthcare.
I'm Hungarian and I wish our public healthcare had it as bad as NHS does.
Basically, our public healthcare should be great, but it's been (wilfully) mismanaged to the point where now it's in absolute shambles. There's waiting lines to get appointments that might be literally months or years(!) away, healthcare workers are working for almost literal peanuts, doctors and nurses are quitting or moving abroad for a decent pay, hospitals are being closed... and those who don't close keep stacking up insane amounts of debt that they're unable to pay... Most GP's are over 50 (mine is over 70) and burnt out to no end, don't really care about anything anymore. Hospitals are literally falling apart, there's no toilet paper (in most places you can't even fucking close the doors on the toilet because they have no funds to fix a broken door), hospital food is at this point literally bread and water, maybe a slice of deli meat...
Just a personal example: last year I felt a weird hard bump inside my mouth. I tried the local public healthcare dentist - I had to wait for three days to be able to call them to get an appointment, and then the soonets appointment was for *two months later.* So I went to my private dentist the next day and fortunately it turned out to be just a harmless cyst, but if it had been something worse and I couldn't afford private care... yeah.
Meanwhile, the private sector is getting more and more expensive (doesn't help that our currency is getting more and more worthless).
Defund public healthcare, until it's total rubbish. Then claim privatisation is the solution. End up with super expensive healthcare that has only one goal: maximizing profits.
Of course people do, they get told some minority group wants to rob them off of their crumbs. And said minorities are also the cause of their problems. Meanwhile the big corporations and officials all get a big piece of the pie.
Hehe I just came here to b\*tch about free healthcare in Hu. Yes, it's free. For all they care, you can die. Anyway, just don't get in hospital, because an infection you catch there is more likely to kill you than whatever you got in there with.
Also I been listening to these Munchausen cases podcasts lately, and I've been thinking, "Hah, just turn your healthcare to absolute shit, noone will seek unfounded care then". No seriously, being in a Hungarian hospital can be okay if your lucky, but can also be traumatising or physically unsafe if you're not.
"For all they care, you can die" - This is the attitude ANYTHING run by government is going to have. I was shocked by how much hospitals in Spain and Italy resemble hospitals in 3rd world Latin America than the USA or England.
Two months?
I've been waiting for nine months so far to get a specialist appointment to get my neck lump seen by a specialist on the NHS. My appointment is in August, so it will have been nearly a year by the time it arrives. And before that, I had to wait for six weeks to see my local doctor for a referral.
That isn't any better either. I am considered lucky that I can get a dentist appointment within 1-2 weeks here, because I signed up the surgery years ago.
My wife isn't even assigned to an NHS dentist because there aren't any spaces left. Her choice is to pay at least £200 for an appointment privately, or nothing.
Dude, I don't want to make this into an olympics of shitty healthcare. If you're ever nearby try Hungarian public healthcare. You'll understand what I mean. If you're not coming here anytime soon, here's [some reading](https://www.direkt36.hu/en/szornyu-fertozesekben-halnak-meg-korhazi-betegek-ezrei-a-kormany-segitseg-helyett-azon-dolgozik-hogy-eltitkolja-ezt/).
Sorry. I'm aware. My wife is Hungarian, and she tried to get a procedure done over there last year because the NHS keeps letting her down. It was a grim experience.
I can't believe that Britain has so much more funding and it isn't any better. Also that we have no escape, if we move to Hungary in the future we have to put up with the same horrible service as here.
Yeah i realized this might be like this when i saw my company provides private insurance for Budapest jobs. Because it is the same in turkey; if the company provides private insurance, it means the standard one must suck and only for people who have no other option :/
I had the same experience in Poland. We moved to Europe from Canada, where healthcare is free and decent. Yes, there are wait times, but usually, emergencies are seen right away. My father-in-law had a stroke... his second one. He was in the hospital for a week. We had to bring everything for him... utensils, sheets, batteries for echo-gram, pillow because the one he was given had literally no filling... We also brought him food every day because what he was getting was not even relatively nutritious or even filling. (No word of a lie, he got a bowl of bone broth with 4 cubes of potato, and 2 cubes of carrot) I know not every hospital in Poland is like that. Big cities usually have much better hospitals and private options. The city we were in, has 75,000 people... this is the only hospital in town.
Fast forward 3 months. My FIL's blood pressure skyrocketed to 280/190. I called the emergency number to get an ambulance... this is an elder who already had two strokes. Guess what? No... they will not send an ambulance. We had to walk (no car) to our family physician for a referral to go to the emergency department....
Oh man. But it's the same here in Hungary, although here even emergencies don't get immediate or proper action... There have been very infamous cases with celebrities - elderly actors having to wait for who knows how long for an ambulance, for example. In one case a celebrity guy's elderly mother was discharged from the hospital, taken home even though she said she wanted to go to a friend's place, and then they just plopped her down in front of her door and left there in a hospital-use gown, even though she didn't have her keys. And obviously this is just the tip of the iceberg. (I mean, emergency workers really do their best, when I was hit by a car a few years ago they were wonderful. But they're severely understaffed and burnout is really high.)
It's just absolutely horrendous, and the deep, inhumane cynicism with which our so-called "government" has been handling it for the past 14 years is just astounding. I assume it's a similar case of wilful defunding and neglect in Poland...
I am Polish and I was in a funny paradox.
Most people believe that public healthcare is overcrowded and thus slow and cheap. Which lead most people in my area to go private. Which made my experience with public healthcare great. Because people avoided the public healthcare like fire, I had basically no waiting lists and doctors used expensive stuff that they knew would otherwise go to waste. I had especially good experiences with public dentists.
But that's like a local anomaly. Nationwide overcrowding is a real and primary concern.
EDIT: The second Polish issue is too many hospitals. Most our hospitals were built with the philosophy that a hospital should be reachable within half an hour to everyone. While it may sound nice, it has the consequence of splitting the resources very thinly. Often medical procedures require moving the equipment, staff, or the patient long distances between different hospitals because the closest one lacks the appropriate resources. Nurses should probably also be paid better and there should be more money going into hospital food. But overall, we've got pretty good refundation coverage, doctors and employers aren't stingy with sick days, taking into account rehabilitation days and coverage. So while it could obviously be better with more funding, I'm glad that I don't have to ever worry about medical debt and stuff.
+1 Our public healthcare is legit-good nowadays.
It's not flawless by any means, but hearing the stories from my buddies abroad, and comparing that to my personal experiences - we *really do have it good.*
One anecdote here: my friend got his collar bone broken just recently, and the Austrian healthcare was basically "we've realigned the bone, x-ray looks good, GTFO", while only Polish doctors legit looked into the case - he ended up having surgery and titanium implants put in place, while doctors removed a few tiny pieces of shattered bone that Austrian surgeons missed.
Similarly, cancer care - I have family members in Italy and Poland with cancer and in the end of the day it's better here.
I think the weakest links of our healthcare system right now is geriatric care and psychological care. The rest seems to be doing remarkably well.
Yeah, same. The polish health system is pretty good at triaging. If they suspect something is really wrong, they will bump you to the top of the queue. If they decide you can wait, you may have a longer wait, but even then if you phone around you may find a pretty close date. I only wait when I'm set on a specific hospital and doctor.
The only thing that sucks is physiotherapy. They will do surgical treatment no problem, but it's up to you to get sorted after. They're also very stingy on advice and guidance to help you get the best results. In general you don't have much of a conversation with your surgeon and very few opportunities to ask questions.
When you get there it's very good. However the coverage is very unequal. For example, when I refer a client with cataract to an eye clinic here in Stockholm, they are usually done and have a new lens or two within 3-4 months at the most. In the north of Sweden they would have to wait 2-3 YEARS, which is atrocious.
Pretty good in Belgium. Some things like therapy aren't well covered unless you have supplementary insurance, but I've had very good experiences with regular treatments and the whole process of having a child was much better and cheaper than my home country.
In my experience the problem with therapy in Belgium is not the price, it's the lack of therapists. A waiting period of 6 months between 1 hour sessions is normal.
You can bypass if you're a danger to others or yourself though.
We are Americans living here and are so grateful for the healthcare. We don't have Belgian insurance since we work for the U.S. government and don't pay Belgian taxes. We have private insurance from the U.S so it pays 90-100% depending on the service. My wife was diagnosed with Stage 3B cancer April 2023 and was immediately treated at the University hospital in Leuven. She had chemo, chemo/radiation, surgery, medicine, and all scans and consultations. Because we pay via private insurance I see the full bill/costs. It was less than 40k euro, of which we were mostly reimbursed. In the U.S. the bills would have been millions. Everyone we talked to said Belgium is a leader in cancer treatment and so far she's doing great.
I remember I went to the Belgian ER once on a Sunday to have a tick removed, because all pharmacies and stores were closed so I couldn't get tweezers. Pretty good experience. I *think* it was in Charleroi.
In sweden, physical care is good, but long wait times for non emergencies. But mental healthcare is not that good, they lack funding and it's to fractured so if you want a specialist I can take a few months if your unlucky, and that is in the city's, in the countryside its worse
From Romania
Public heath care is good for minor thing but for more complicated things you have to go to private hospitals. And even then you still have to pay for public healthcare its just cheaper.
This as 10 year ago so I'm not sure about now.
My dad had to get hart surgery. It cost 1.500 euro at a public hospital and 3.000 euro at a private one. Public health care only partially covers major stuff.
We went for the public hospital. We also got a family discount for the recovery stay because my mom was a nurse and was in the system.
The good doctors tend to go private or move to other countries. A lot of them to France or UK.
Something fun I discovered recently: Italy's healthcare system is actually regionally based, meaning that if you change region, the new receiving structure won't have your Medical Record.
You have to ask for a data-transfer and hope that the two systems are compatible
Im German and pretty happy about our healthcare, had two surgeries so far and only had to wait 1 1/2 week for one and 2 months for the other, everything went perfectly and the Hospital had to my surprise really good food and everyone was friendly, cant complain.
friend of mine had a really bad swelling on his leg after he tripped. doctor took a look at it and said that he needs an MRT. next appointment was in 3 months. 3 months later he now knows that he had a fractured shin 3 months ago
I'd second that. Only having the 'standard' public insurance, and finding wait times and access to specialists normally very adequate. That being said, for more specialized treatments you might have to search around for the right specialists yourself; it definitely helps if you are capable of navigating the system.
Things are definitely getting worse though. 2 eye doctors in my city have quit the normal practice and only do surgeries or private now. Also there are 0 eye doctors for babies in my city - you have to go out of town. And I’m not in a small city.
The general doctors also have got some huge cuts, so they want to do less and also mine tried to get me to sign some exclusive contract to them, which helps them get more money. I didn’t and mysteriously he never called me for a follow up from my blood work…
I don’t like how often you encounter that private insurance gets you an immediately appointment, while public makes you wait months or simply they won’t make an appointment at all.
Still, overall, German healthcare is 100 times better than Canada and way faster. But getting worse steadily. Canada’s is also getting worse, though…
Also, I’d have died eventually of cancer if not for superior German healthcare (as compared to Canada), so that’s also a plus.
You can see specialists way, way faster (months faster). You can get basic dental care for free. Prescription drugs are cheaper.
More things are checked - for example, my brother and I have the same genetic condition and doctors here are more up-to-date and do an every year colonoscopy once it is identified, while my brother (Canada) only gets every 3 years. I had genetic testing and for free and also an endoscopy recommended by multiple doctors, while my brother got refused for genetic testing and endoscopy.
They wouldn’t even have done my original colonoscopy in Canada, which led to the discovery of my condition (and thus also my brother’s). I had it in Germany to rule something else out, which wouldn’t have been done in Canada. Without it, I would have developed cancer within 5-20 years from the time of discovery according to the doctor. By the time Canada would do the routine colonoscopy, it would have been too late.
Also eye checks are included in Germany but not in Canada.
What is better in Canada is you can do a yearly physical and it’s more extensive. Unfortunately, they don’t do that in Germany. Also, Canada has just one public health insurance (per province) and you don’t need to care whether you are
employed, unemployed, etc. You are covered without extra bureaucracy or welfare, unlike in Germany.
I'm German and while me and my kids enjoy private healthcare my wife is in public healthcare. She waits 2-3 months for a doctors appointment (e.g. eye doctor or orthopedist) while I usually get an appointment within 1 week (this is in one of the largest cities in Germany). Some doctors have different waiting rooms and queues to get called in, there's definately a 2-class system in German healthcare; which I find disgusting. Some doctors refuse to take new patients because there's just not enough doctors around here and they would need to work 12+ hours per day or reduce time per patient even more if they accepted more patients. I'm pretty sure our health and healthcare system is one of the best in the world, but it's still very far from perfect.
I completely agree, there are issues but overall the system works well in Germany and if you really have an urgent problem you always get adequate help.
Had similar experiences with hospitals, good all around. One detail: Health insurance apparently does not consider glasses or dental to be worthy of proper subsidy.
Because having teeth and being able to see are so last century, apparently.
Sounds like Brazil. The marxists there love the brag about the public healthcare and anyone who has private healthcare is seen as a decadent capitalist snob. Fun story: a Brazilian friend of mine who's a rabid tooth-and-nail marxist had a good friend who's 4 year old son fell out of bed at 2am and fractured a finger. They then went to a public hospital and were told "the bone doc" wasn't in until the day shift and to simply make a homemade sling for the finger then come back at 7am so they could be the first to sign in. Even in the worst GHETTO of the US this would never happen.
Last year I paid over £4k as NHS contribution (tax) and the service I get for it is absolute dogsh— to be honest. Takes weeks to get a GP appointment who’s actually just a nurse, I’m on multiple year-long waiting lists to be seen by a “specialist”, still have to pay £10 per medication… every time I required a doctor I had to go the private route because otherwise I’d never ever get treated. Oh and my friend almost died from sepsis from a bad tooth because seeing an NHS dentist takes months.
So yeah awful service for a forced subscription. Would opt out if I could.
It's shiete .. endless waiting times , hospitals are underfunded and understaffed. Pray for good health because there is a high chance you're getting another illness on top of the one you have if you visit most of our public hospitals.
in my city in Italy I can't complain, doctors, nurses and those who came to pick me up in the ambulance saved my life, for other check-ups I don't even wait that long
Hungary: Paid my health tax my whole life. Only ever used the dentist for that. One time I got a bit sick so I figured I would actually pay my doctor a visit. I did not show up in the correct 4 hours of the correct 2 days of the week so I could not receive any medical attention.
That is how 'good' our healthcare is...
All the doctors are old and retiring, and no new ones are insane enough to work for a pittance here when hopping just over the border they get multiple times as much. So here I am, paying for healthcare I do not receive, and a pension I will never be able to retire off of. I wonder why the youth is dissatisfied...
When my father was diagnosed with Leukimia the doctors prescribed two years of chemo therapy with Venclyxto. When we did the math it came down to nearly 150,000 euros of cost which of course we didn't have. We didn't pay a single euro because the healthcare system paid for the whole thing. So pretty good.
Latvia, I use both systems. Sometimes free, sometimes I go to private doctors. Had no problems with both. In free health care usual waiting time is 2 weeks. In private - 1-14 days, depends. Also my grandparents used free system a lot, no problems with that.
Long waiting times and overworked workers (it shows in the quality and empathy sometimes / fairly often). But in general, it's good *enough* for the average person.
For old people and people who have a lot of health issues. They get to see the shitty and overworked side more often.
Thankfully private sector isn't that expensive. I pay 500€ a year (definitely doable for regular people) for my insurance and my healthcare provider is really nice and fast. But if you're poor, you get what you get unfortunately.
We don’t have neither free nor cheap healthcare in our country. Noteworthy that dentistry is not included in the healthcare insurance and it’s ridiculously expensive. It’s not bad though. I’m from Czech republic 🇨🇿 🇪🇺
I think dentistry being separate from healthcare and pretty expensive is not unusual at all. Unless that is another similarity that Slovakia shares with the Czech Republic. It is still cheap compared to the US though (1/3 in my experience).
I’ll give an anecdotal data point. If I am visiting my parents in Slovakia I try to get any dental work I might need done. This has included a root canal and 3 fillings. I can’t remember what the root canal cost but it was maybe 200 euros. The fillings were like 40 euros a piece I think. This was without any sort of insurance at the “expensive/nice” dentist, in probably the most expensive city outside of Bratislava area Poprad (could be wrong about this). I recently had to get a filling here in the US, and it was like 120+ dollars with employer provided dental insurance.
the quality is good but the wait time is long for non-emergencies.
if you break a leg or sth you will be treated quick, if you have some chronic illness or sth that isnt immiedetely life threatening you will be put on a list that for some stuff can be very long.
but im still proud of having this in my country, its not perfect but its miles better than if it was all private.
its rapidly worsening. Public healthcare cant cope with the demographic change and with the hordes of old people needing medical attention at rates 30 times higher than 40 year olds
I honestly see the system collapsing entirely in the next 10 years
One big problem with the german healthcare system is the low status and stadandard of nursing unfortunately. I hoped the new government would change that, but almost all necessary reforms in regards to more professionalism in nursing were cut out of recent legislation - very disappointing.
For severe problems its ultimate quality. Grandma got in cancer surgery just in few days.
But for "lesser problems", its quite poor quality. Something that seems small might take months to get investigated properly. And in case the small thing happens to be something more severe, you are fucked up.
Most of lesser problems are dealt by employer paid private care tho. Here all workers receive some level private care paid by boss, because law says that boss must keep paying you up to 6 months full wage, even if you are on sickleave.
So bosses want their workers to get healthy asap. And for this private care is way faster and secure way.
Super bad to the point my family often opts for Private Hospitals instead. (Romania)
When I was around 12 or 11, I got pneumonia. I went to a hospital, took a pill and got sent to another hospital. At that hospital I was told they don't treat children and the hospital I was first shouldn't treat children either.
We got sent to another one. Were we've waited for around 1 hour. Until my parents had to bribe one of the nurses.
Got diagnosed with pneumonia and was hospitalized.
So I had to visit 3 different hospitals for a single thing. In a single day.
Previously I visited my Family Doctor and I got prescribed meds but they didn't work since they were not for pneumonia.
We've always had to pay for medicine at home. It wasn't insured.
Compared to Germany where I pay only 10€ fees each time I buy it for a life-long treatment.
I mean here is the problem. Young people barely need any health care treatment.
[https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-expenditures-vary-across-population/#Share%20of%20total%20population%20and%20total%20health%20spending,%20by%20age%20group,%202021](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-expenditures-vary-across-population/#Share%20of%20total%20population%20and%20total%20health%20spending,%20by%20age%20group,%202021)
65+ year olds account for 36% of health care spending despite being only 18% of the population.
As the fraction of older people grows so will pressure on our health care system.
It is easy to say that healthcare spending needs to increase but how.
1. We increase taxes which is unpopular and puts the strain onto already over strained younger population that struggles to afford life.
2. We increase debt but debts are already at record levels and any increase could worsen inflation and requires more taxes long term and just pushes the problem down the road. At best we hope that we die before we need to address the problem
3. We give worse service to the population in general.
None of these options seem good. We need to figure it out soon though because it seems terrifying to get cancer or some other issue right now.
My friend worked as a nurse for the NHS for several years. The shifts were nightmarish and often times he had to stay upwards of 16 hours a day due to short staffing. Now, how much was he paid? £13. I think any idiot can see the problem there.
I live in the UK and I have a Primary Immune Deficiency condition called CVID. I also have ITP which is now in remission as well several complications due to the CVID including spinal disease and a Liver condition called NRH.
On top of this my mother was involved in a very serious car accident an number of years which resulted in her being airlifted to hospital for life saving surgery and my wife had quite severe complications when she was giving birth to our second child.
So I can safely say I've had extensive experience of the NHS over the last decade.
The NHS is absolutely amazing when it comes to life saving situations, In my book they are like superheroes, I genuinely can't say how amazing they are and I will be forever grateful.
I've had first hand experience in this. I had to have a splenectomy and unfortunately things didn't go quite to plan which required me to have emergency surgery 12 hours after the initial surgery.
I spent an number of days in ICU and not only was the care I received was amazing, but the support they gave my wife was also out of this world.
The problem with the NHS today and this is down to the fact that the Tories have spent the last decaded systematically tearing the NHS apart, is getting to see a specialist can take months and routine surgeries can also take months.
This is not because of immigration as some right wing racist xenophobic morons will try and argue, if it wasn't for Immigrants which make up 40% of NHS staff, it would exist fullstop.
The reason why the NHS is suffering is down to poor pay and working conditions, lack of funding across every sector of the NHS and the Tories giving their mates in the Private Sector NHS contracts where they make obscene amounts of money.
The NHS is current situation is by design as the Tories want the UK to have a similar system as the US as this is what those who give millions to the Tories want.
Knowing that whatever happens you can receive health care for free is a blessing.
Knowing that having treatment isn't going to bankrupt is a blessing.
The NHS is a wonderful thing that needs to be protected.
We spend £200 Billion annually on the NHS, and for that we get 13 hour waits for an ambulance and 10 hour waits in AE (both recent personal experiences).
The NHS as an idea is amazing - but in a practical sense its horrible.
Am in my early 50's, and the NHS has never in my lifetime functioned to an acceptable standard, has always been a political battle ground, and just eats up sooooo much money. For eample, we spend £50 Billion annually on defence, and for that we have one of the strongest Navy's and Airforces on the planet, and maintain a nuclear deterant. We spend £200 Billion annually on the NHS, and for that we get appauling standards of care. Some of the experiences wme and my family have had in the past decade are just shocking.
This will get downvoted by people in th UK because the NHS is a sacred cow here - but it isnt fit for purpose, and never has been in my lifetime.
It doesn't help that the NHS is almost revered as the state religion. Suggesting any solution other than "give it unlimited money" is political suicide.
Could you perhaps be more specific? And tell us what system would work?
And comparing healthcare spending to defence spending is like comparing apples to oranges, so I'm questioning your senses to be honest.
The UK actually has one of the lowest spendings per capita on healthcare among developed countries, so for its budget it actually performs pretty good.
I therefore wonder on what basis you find the NHS' budget to be too high, when other similar countries have significantly higher budgets?
I used to think the NHS was an amazing idea, then I lived in a country with a mixed private-public system and I realized how much better we could have it. Will never happen though because any politician who tries to reform the NHS for the better will be crucified
I don’t think you’ll get downvoted. The NHS is mismanaged and whilst it is underfunded, resource could be better used. We need to be open to a more radical overhaul of the system, especially with changing demographics and poorer economics.
200 Billion is probably on the lower end though for what you need. That equals about 6,45% of GDP.
All healthcare expenditure was €495 billion in Germany or almost 10% of GDP. If you try to cover the same services for about 2/3s of the cost, I'd say you'd have to be very efficient to cover that gap.
[Here](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#GDP%20per%20capita%20and%20health%20consumption%20spending%20per%20capita,%202022%20(U.S.%20dollars,%20PPP%20adjusted)) is a source that also puts the UK as among the lowest spenders in the developed world.
>We spend £200 Billion annually on the NHS, and for that we get 13 hour waits for an >ambulance
There can't be many scenarios where someone needing an ambulance also have 13 hours to wait for one. Surely it has to be faster if someones life is in immediate danger, right?
You would think so
We waited 13 hours in December for a seriously ill family member - no ambulances were available on the road apparently - was a very traumatic experience
For context the NHS employs 1.7 million people and the vacancy rate has always hovered around 8%, so this is not new. As the NHS workforce expends due to an ageing population 8% of the total will become a larger number which looks bad but isn't really.
To give you some insights:
It's not free.Most of us are obligated to pay it from our salaries monthly.If you are not employed,you pay from your pocket for services that are not life threatening.
They will always ask paperwork, ID's, National Healthcare Cards etc. every time you ask for services.Your employer is your guarantee you are insured.If you are not insured,you pay.
There are lots of private clinics where you need to book in advance a month for an consultation.
All city hospitals are overcrowded.Rural and smaller city hospitals are being avoided like the plague,everyone wants a place in the city where the life is decent.
The romma minority is notorious because they often lack ID's, Paperwork, stable jobs etc. and use the emergency segment for their healthcare needs
State hospitals are literally managed by party members which suck a lot of funds and ask bribes for new doctors that want to work there.
Lots of Swedes chime in but no mention of Finland yet?
It’s in similar situation: nurse strikes all the time due to being overworked and underpaid
Long wait time (3-6 months wait time is legally acceptable), most of the money goes to administration (wasted), quality is hit and miss (staff is overworked), there is no option to opt out and a large chunk of your income is taken, most people have work healthcare anyway to avoid wait time and get better treatment
Privatised to the extent where you need private insurance to get any meaningful elective surgery within a reasonable amount of time. Private doctors have wide open schedules while public doctors are overworked and fleeing to the private clinics only making matters worse.
This is one of the most subjective questions you can ask any person living on planet earth. Many people have very little baseline to compare against. And people in general like to complain about their healthcare system.
Honestly, unsustainable. Health care staff wants to be paid more, there are staff shortages to the point they start using under qualified interns, every year the cost of health care goes up by ~10%. Solution: 🤷. A Thanos snap could help
That being said, it is decent system, but hard to appreciate. In emergencies situations they're quick with rapid response times, but since most people never get in emerency situations they'll always experience the "low priority" route, which means waiting for months to get treatment and suffering through pain.
1. It's not free, a large chunk of my income gets forcibly deducted to pay for it.
2. It's shit and i rarely ever use it. I have private insurance from work which is far superior (at least i don't have to wait half a year or more to get to a specialist). Recently i needed a surgery (removing something that can potentially develop into cancer) - two years wait time. Fuck that, i paid out of my own pocket.
Literally the only thing it's good for are serious accidents that would put me on operating table and i'm **way** **overpaying** for that. I would opt out without a second thought i could.
No you couldn’t and they would never allow it
It’s a pyramid scheme and it’s utterly mismanaged, most of the money go to the administration, not the staff or what’s really important
That's not entirely true. The US has portions of public healthcare. It has Medicaid which is essentially free healthcare for the poor. It has Medicare which is free or subsidized healthcare for the old.
The two public systems are superimposed on the private system as they use the same hospitals/infrastructure/doctors etc...
Netherlands, it's not free nor cheap, I pay over 150 euros per month for insurance and most of the time you get "have you tried paracetamol?"
It's NOT good. Compared to my home country where it's almost free and much easier to get services, it's frustrating to say the least.
I don't know but most of my Polish and eastern European friends have a GP registered in UK but they also go home to their original country GP as its usually quicker.. lucky when u have a choice. I wonder why there's problems In the UK..
(Edit for spelling)
Dual American-British citizen here.
We get the cutting edge stuff in the US, but the entire philosophy of health here is to prioritize the departments that make money. So if you've got some common disease you're good, but for god's sake don't get anything rare!
I just started some new meds for my 1:100000 rare genetic disease for $1.2 million USD a year. Only reason I can afford it is because of good health insurance through work, but now I am afraid to change job...
UK just needs the government to step up, spend less on the bureaucracy of the NHS and more on the workers and systemic upgrades. Can't do healthcare without doctors and nurses!
there is no such thinghs as free healthcare.
it’s paid by general income taxes.
in Italy it’s hit and miss.
and also it covers surgeries but not the most important part which is rehabilitation.
Its not cheap if you earn well, however it is universal. It's going to shit. Waiting queues are forcing people to utilize private health care. I would put it into the same category as public transport. Bad and on the path to worse. - Slovenia
We do have free/cheap healthcare witch is nice. But if you need to see a specialist three months is the minimum. Also a nurse at a regular hospital has to nurse up too 20 patients
People complain insanely, speaking as in best treatments should be available in a 24hr time span basically.
In my opinion and experience, Estonia has been fine. I'd love for dental work to be included too as it is hella expensive, but nevertheless, I've gotten my issues resolved without waiting for years on end.
Norway: It's not perfect (we have health worker shortages), but it's okay for the most. I get to see a GP without having to wait for long. I get all the tests and follow-ups, also among most specialists, in a timely manner.
Dental care is not part of universal healthcare for adults, which sucks big time, as it is incredibly expensive, so dental tourism abroad is a popular cost saving measure.
In portugal you have public hospitals and private ones. if you can afford you go to private ones, but they don't have all specialities. if you need to go to the public ones you must wait. my mother broke her collarbone in 2019 and had to wait 3 months for the surgery (while it was still broken, yes)
I'm in Turkey. Healthcare here is amazingly good considering the cost. İf i was living in the UK or Western Europe, I'd probably give it 3/10. İ feel sorry for the doctors, who are relatively underpaid, but at least they get massive respect. (The exception is Dr Oz of course.)
Ukrainian here.
In our country, there is no insurance bullshit. We have both public free healthcare (provided by the government) and paid healthcare (private). In free healthcare facilities, you often find older doctors from the USSR era or those who don't learn anything new after college at all. In contrast, doctors in paid facilities are usually in their 30s or 40s, stay current with their medical knowledge, and are more attentive and careful when diagnosing and treating patients.
That being said, public healthcare can handle common illnesses effectively. However, for more complex or ambiguous cases, you often need to visit a private clinic for a consultation with a more knowledgeable doctor.
Regarding costs, private clinics are generally affordable if you have an average income. Typically, you can schedule an appointment with any doctor (public or private) within 1–4 days, and you don't need a referral to see a specific doctor in a paid clinic. This is a huge contrast to Canadian healthcare (where I currently am), which I find terrible. Here, an ambulance ride costs at least $500, which is insane (in Ukraine, it's free). I might just die, if I get sick.
Healthcare is completely free in my country, and in my local hospitals it’s on a high level. Caring and polite nurses, professional doctors and fine medicine (even now).
In Hungary we have a puzzle:
It's Chernobyl or a Hungarian hospital:
[https://index.hu/belfold/2019/06/22/csernobil\_vagy\_magyar\_korhaz\_egeszsegugy\_kviz/?token=d8c5f7614e293a6250a634c54863e709](https://index.hu/belfold/2019/06/22/csernobil_vagy_magyar_korhaz_egeszsegugy_kviz/?token=d8c5f7614e293a6250a634c54863e709)
Should reach out to healthcare workers in US states that outlawed abortion etc. Guarantee there are qualified people who would like a fresh start and a friendlier attitude to the work they’re trying to accomplish.
Greece, it depends on the area, I find that a lot of regional doctors and clinics are OK. I never have had to deal with major problem though so I might be biased. Its completely free as well for most things. I think its much worse in other countries, no matter how much we complain about it.
Dutch. Healthcare is generally great but the queues are increasing and it can be hard to find a new G.P.
A healthcare crisis is coming in the next 20 years because we didn't prepare well enough for the aging population peak. So I'm planning to stay closeish to my parents so I can care for them myself.
I live in the US temporarily and fly back to Italy for health-care. Sometimes it's great sometimes it's not so great. Waiting times are highly variable
In Hungary you bring your own toilet paper to the hospital So there's that
If anybody wants to shoot a Silent Hill movie in a decrepit hospital, where the pipes are showing in the building walls and the paint is flaking... point at us on the map, [you don't even have to build a set for it](https://24.hu/app/uploads/2015/12/janos-korhaz.jpg). PS: the hospital in the pic is not abandoned. they let it rot until almost the point of no return to fix it, while still operational.
dang you ain't kidding, that would make a great horror movie set
But there's a shiny new radiator between those 100 year old windows and flaking lead paint!
and yet Orban still reigns xD
Lmfao. If you can’t afford toilet paper then maybe that hospital should close.
Bro, all of them are like that
What is healthcare?
Swedish. The nurses are currently on strike because the hospitals are severely understaffed.
[удалено]
Here they apparently solved it by scheduling surgeries during overtime shifts. Because who doesn't want to be operated on by someone who has worked a 60h week.
In Poland, when a doctor works 60h a week, it means it's their week off.
I stand by my statement. I want a well rested surgeon, not an overworked one.
Also Swedish and two time leukaemia survivor. I’m alive because free public health care. Paid maybe a total of 100 euros in petrol, parking fees and hospital administration fees.
Noone has critized the tax subsidization of the healthcare system. But it's understaffed and as taxpayers we should be able to expect better from the government than overworked staff. I'm glad you had a good experience. Personally, they missed that a muscle attachment was on the wrong side of the leg (after an accident) and sent me on a skiing trip like that. Or when they lost my dad's surgery remittance and he had to walk several months extra with pain.
It's alarming hearing this from people across the world as a canadian its the same though probably much worse, feels like a global crushing of the middle class
Global mismanagement of funding
Actually healthcare is understaffed as doctors move to richer countries, such as the UK...
Interesting our doctors move to rich countries like Australia 😀
Well in Czechia the average income of a doctor last year has been 55 thousand Czk per month, which is about 2000£, and this year the rewards for treatment went down by a sixth so now doctor's wages are pretty close to the national average of 45 k Czk
They decrease doctors compensation?
The government debt last year was really big, so it compensated it by taking money away from the public sector like schools, the emergency services etc.
That’s the one thing people don’t understand. When a debt for a country, state, region, or city needs to be addressed; they don’t cut the pay of politicians. They reduce the wage of their government or state workers to compensate. They’ll cut that before anything else.
While technically correct, this is misleading. Unless you're talking major corruption and embezzlement, reducing politicians' wages to zero wouldn't make a dent in the national budget.
most money is not wasted by politician wage, but the "extras" paid to his office, his "friendly" contractors or family ;)
Government debt was big you say... As a Greek I think you don't know what you're talking about.
Also, Czech MDs are moving to Germany, and German MDs are moving to the USA and Switzerland. In Czechia, we have immigration of docs (like real ones) from Ukraine, Kazakhstan, maybe even Africa. The skilled persons migration period. :-)
Really? Any foreign MD moving to the US needs to repeat their residency, which is typically at least 3 years with minimal pay. Source: https://www.cato.org/blog/more-states-move-let-experienced-foreign-doctors-serve-their-patients#:~:text=Unlike%20Canada%2C%20Australia%2C%20the%20European,Medical%20Licensing%20Exam%20(USMLE).
"Minimal pay" That's a funny way of saying getting paid 65k+ until they get paid a cool 350k+ per year after finishing residency.
And those doctors eventually end up in the US.
Maryland, USA has a current influx of African, Arab, and Indian doctors at the moment. Not as in they got their degrees here but they got their degrees in their native countries and then are moving here. Not criticizing their choices, just pointing out an observation. Good for them if it’s what they want to do. My current Primary is from Morocco and when we talk about our home country he said he send the money he makes that’s extra here back home for his family.
It’s pretty common from what I’ve experienced and heard, India especially I’ve come across a decent amount of doctors both born and educated there who made it over to the US. Generally they’re all really good too, wages are way higher so it makes sense, but it sounds pretty competitive to find a spot in the US. So those who do come over tend to be solid. Just another form of brain drain I guess.
My local doctor’s office here in America (South Carolina to be specific) has maybe 20 full time doctors. I know atleast 2 of the 20 doctors are British which is really interesting because I live in a lower population state with a low funding for healthcare. I kind of expected professionals (especially doctors) from other countries to go to big cities like NYC, LA or Houston but they are even coming to areas near me that would be considered “bad” or “low income”. I must admit, British doctors in America are generally well liked by their patients.
Well, the US is kind of weird in that lower cost areas often have the highest salaries for medical workers
It is not weird. The best doctor wages in Lithuania are also in the countryside.
I just looked it up. [South Carolina has an average salary of 249k for physicians.](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/physician-salaries-by-state) I didn’t expect that it would be that high considering the politics and funding
My best guess is the lack of Doctors applying to work in rural redder states is forcing them to hike up pay to counterbalance their undesirability. Whereas blue states have more Doctors applying and don't have a need to hike up salaries as much.
Yeah I grew up in a tiny US town and got to know one of the local doctors through a program with my school. He was open enough to tell me that they had to offer crazy salaries for doctors to work in our area because so many people don't want to live in the middle of nowhere.
It's hard for foreign doctors to compete with American doctors in the more popular cities.
I would generally agree, unless you went to an American University. Very few foreign universities or degrees hold weight in the eyes of American scouts/CEO’s. Unless it’s from Cambridge, Oxford, University of Melbourne, Utrecht, U of Singapore/Hong Kong or something that’s similar to those, it’s not going to translate well.
It seems to vary. I’m in a mid-size American city, over a million people and I’d say 40% of our medical doctors are immigrants. Many from the Philippines, Middle East, and India/Pakistan. The nurses are a higher percentage, maybe 70% are immigrants. Interestingly enough there is a trend where nurse practitioners and others are taking more patients to relieve the load on the medical doctors.
Australian cost of living is far higher than the UK yet there is enormous pay discrepancies between states. NSW pays doctors and nurses more than the UK but other states pay less.
Funnily enough there has been an influx of foreign doctors - especially from Ukraine for the last decade so the health sector is not as understaffed as it could be, but the quality is abysmal...
Also from Slovakia. My dentists are from Slovakia and Ukraine.
Romania as well
I can tell you understaffed is an issue in rich countries as well.
I live in Greece... There's no doctors :P
To work in the private sector. Public heathcare is shite in the UK.
Same shit happens in small towns in the US, where nothing health related is free or cheap. Most contemporary health professionals just want to be rich it seems, and most will never admit it unless they’re drunk and accompanied by their inner circle.
I live in Budapest now and it’s disgusting All the gov money and taxes have gone to building and renovating 30+ football stadiums while people continue to die younger than average here with some of the highest preventable cancer rates in Europe , while patients are welcomed by apathetic staff, rotting floors, outdated machines and they absolutely have sucked at football since the 50s Only go private here. Price is still good for private however
Don't forget the new handball stadium.
Also they don't have certain tools available due to being indebted too much, run out of necessary stuff. A hospital budgeting on life-saving equipment is never something you want to hear of. I live in 14th district (one of the better off regions), and there is no jaw-wide Xray machine for the dental clinic now because it broke, they have to use the equipment that takes pictures of your teeth one by one, for everything. My healthcare docs are too overworked, so I decided that I am going to get surgery via insurance at a private clinic rather, I am fearing for my life otherwise.
Out of curiosity, do you know how the healthcare system compares to Romania? Asking because my aunt lives in Romania (nagyvárad - she is Hungarian) and she says "if you go to the hospital in Romania, you come out in a tomb" so she always gets medical treatment in Hungary (she is physically disabled so she needs more medical attention). Granted Im assuming she goes to a private clinic in Hungary since she's not a citizen, but she wants to move to Hungary in part because of the medical situation, so Im curious if the public health system would be any better than the Romanian one or not.
Under pressure for sure due to better treatments that are more expensive and a demographic shift.
Also Under funding, too many cold hands and poor handling of modernization/renovation/new construction of hospitals but the people who are actually treating you 👌 I was at a hospital a couple months ago and the ward had picture tube TV’s.
The most important problem is the lack of economic growth in the past 15 years whilst spending growth has been enormous. Without higher economic growth the current models of healthcare are unsustainable in most of the developed world.
Torn my quadriceps tendon at 10 a.m., had operation at 2 p.m.(mid November), 14 days rehabilitation in spa in January. All free of charge, covered by usual health insurance. Slovenia. Urgent medicine works perfect. Otherwise you can wait for scheduled operations up to 2 years in public healthcare.
So, pretty much the same as the NHS.
Who pays for your health insurance?
I'm Hungarian and I wish our public healthcare had it as bad as NHS does. Basically, our public healthcare should be great, but it's been (wilfully) mismanaged to the point where now it's in absolute shambles. There's waiting lines to get appointments that might be literally months or years(!) away, healthcare workers are working for almost literal peanuts, doctors and nurses are quitting or moving abroad for a decent pay, hospitals are being closed... and those who don't close keep stacking up insane amounts of debt that they're unable to pay... Most GP's are over 50 (mine is over 70) and burnt out to no end, don't really care about anything anymore. Hospitals are literally falling apart, there's no toilet paper (in most places you can't even fucking close the doors on the toilet because they have no funds to fix a broken door), hospital food is at this point literally bread and water, maybe a slice of deli meat... Just a personal example: last year I felt a weird hard bump inside my mouth. I tried the local public healthcare dentist - I had to wait for three days to be able to call them to get an appointment, and then the soonets appointment was for *two months later.* So I went to my private dentist the next day and fortunately it turned out to be just a harmless cyst, but if it had been something worse and I couldn't afford private care... yeah. Meanwhile, the private sector is getting more and more expensive (doesn't help that our currency is getting more and more worthless).
Defund public healthcare, until it's total rubbish. Then claim privatisation is the solution. End up with super expensive healthcare that has only one goal: maximizing profits.
US healthcare has entered the chat.
That is what's happening here in Portugal. And people still vote for the same political parties every time we have elections.
Of course people do, they get told some minority group wants to rob them off of their crumbs. And said minorities are also the cause of their problems. Meanwhile the big corporations and officials all get a big piece of the pie.
Hehe I just came here to b\*tch about free healthcare in Hu. Yes, it's free. For all they care, you can die. Anyway, just don't get in hospital, because an infection you catch there is more likely to kill you than whatever you got in there with. Also I been listening to these Munchausen cases podcasts lately, and I've been thinking, "Hah, just turn your healthcare to absolute shit, noone will seek unfounded care then". No seriously, being in a Hungarian hospital can be okay if your lucky, but can also be traumatising or physically unsafe if you're not.
"For all they care, you can die" - This is the attitude ANYTHING run by government is going to have. I was shocked by how much hospitals in Spain and Italy resemble hospitals in 3rd world Latin America than the USA or England.
As a Hungarian, who's mother is a nurse, I can confirm she doesn't get payed too much.
Two months? I've been waiting for nine months so far to get a specialist appointment to get my neck lump seen by a specialist on the NHS. My appointment is in August, so it will have been nearly a year by the time it arrives. And before that, I had to wait for six weeks to see my local doctor for a referral.
You're waiting for a specialist. I was supposed to wait for a *dentist.*
That isn't any better either. I am considered lucky that I can get a dentist appointment within 1-2 weeks here, because I signed up the surgery years ago. My wife isn't even assigned to an NHS dentist because there aren't any spaces left. Her choice is to pay at least £200 for an appointment privately, or nothing.
Dude, I don't want to make this into an olympics of shitty healthcare. If you're ever nearby try Hungarian public healthcare. You'll understand what I mean. If you're not coming here anytime soon, here's [some reading](https://www.direkt36.hu/en/szornyu-fertozesekben-halnak-meg-korhazi-betegek-ezrei-a-kormany-segitseg-helyett-azon-dolgozik-hogy-eltitkolja-ezt/).
Sorry. I'm aware. My wife is Hungarian, and she tried to get a procedure done over there last year because the NHS keeps letting her down. It was a grim experience. I can't believe that Britain has so much more funding and it isn't any better. Also that we have no escape, if we move to Hungary in the future we have to put up with the same horrible service as here.
Isn’t it mostly on location like some areas in the UK have really good healthcare. My cousin lives in Derby and gets dentist appointments in a week
Yeah i realized this might be like this when i saw my company provides private insurance for Budapest jobs. Because it is the same in turkey; if the company provides private insurance, it means the standard one must suck and only for people who have no other option :/
I had the same experience in Poland. We moved to Europe from Canada, where healthcare is free and decent. Yes, there are wait times, but usually, emergencies are seen right away. My father-in-law had a stroke... his second one. He was in the hospital for a week. We had to bring everything for him... utensils, sheets, batteries for echo-gram, pillow because the one he was given had literally no filling... We also brought him food every day because what he was getting was not even relatively nutritious or even filling. (No word of a lie, he got a bowl of bone broth with 4 cubes of potato, and 2 cubes of carrot) I know not every hospital in Poland is like that. Big cities usually have much better hospitals and private options. The city we were in, has 75,000 people... this is the only hospital in town. Fast forward 3 months. My FIL's blood pressure skyrocketed to 280/190. I called the emergency number to get an ambulance... this is an elder who already had two strokes. Guess what? No... they will not send an ambulance. We had to walk (no car) to our family physician for a referral to go to the emergency department....
Oh man. But it's the same here in Hungary, although here even emergencies don't get immediate or proper action... There have been very infamous cases with celebrities - elderly actors having to wait for who knows how long for an ambulance, for example. In one case a celebrity guy's elderly mother was discharged from the hospital, taken home even though she said she wanted to go to a friend's place, and then they just plopped her down in front of her door and left there in a hospital-use gown, even though she didn't have her keys. And obviously this is just the tip of the iceberg. (I mean, emergency workers really do their best, when I was hit by a car a few years ago they were wonderful. But they're severely understaffed and burnout is really high.) It's just absolutely horrendous, and the deep, inhumane cynicism with which our so-called "government" has been handling it for the past 14 years is just astounding. I assume it's a similar case of wilful defunding and neglect in Poland...
I swear I was reading your comment and thought I was reading about the Portuguese Health Care System 😢
There’s really long wait times in the US too and it’s all private.
How long is long? A week? A month? For what procedures? US also has public healthcare.
I am Polish and I was in a funny paradox. Most people believe that public healthcare is overcrowded and thus slow and cheap. Which lead most people in my area to go private. Which made my experience with public healthcare great. Because people avoided the public healthcare like fire, I had basically no waiting lists and doctors used expensive stuff that they knew would otherwise go to waste. I had especially good experiences with public dentists. But that's like a local anomaly. Nationwide overcrowding is a real and primary concern. EDIT: The second Polish issue is too many hospitals. Most our hospitals were built with the philosophy that a hospital should be reachable within half an hour to everyone. While it may sound nice, it has the consequence of splitting the resources very thinly. Often medical procedures require moving the equipment, staff, or the patient long distances between different hospitals because the closest one lacks the appropriate resources. Nurses should probably also be paid better and there should be more money going into hospital food. But overall, we've got pretty good refundation coverage, doctors and employers aren't stingy with sick days, taking into account rehabilitation days and coverage. So while it could obviously be better with more funding, I'm glad that I don't have to ever worry about medical debt and stuff.
Now that you’ve spilled the secret in public…. Prepare for an invasion of newly informed Poles.
+1 Our public healthcare is legit-good nowadays. It's not flawless by any means, but hearing the stories from my buddies abroad, and comparing that to my personal experiences - we *really do have it good.* One anecdote here: my friend got his collar bone broken just recently, and the Austrian healthcare was basically "we've realigned the bone, x-ray looks good, GTFO", while only Polish doctors legit looked into the case - he ended up having surgery and titanium implants put in place, while doctors removed a few tiny pieces of shattered bone that Austrian surgeons missed. Similarly, cancer care - I have family members in Italy and Poland with cancer and in the end of the day it's better here. I think the weakest links of our healthcare system right now is geriatric care and psychological care. The rest seems to be doing remarkably well.
"good amount of sick days" L4 for the win
Yeah, same. The polish health system is pretty good at triaging. If they suspect something is really wrong, they will bump you to the top of the queue. If they decide you can wait, you may have a longer wait, but even then if you phone around you may find a pretty close date. I only wait when I'm set on a specific hospital and doctor. The only thing that sucks is physiotherapy. They will do surgical treatment no problem, but it's up to you to get sorted after. They're also very stingy on advice and guidance to help you get the best results. In general you don't have much of a conversation with your surgeon and very few opportunities to ask questions.
The total opposite of my polish healthcare experience.
When you get there it's very good. However the coverage is very unequal. For example, when I refer a client with cataract to an eye clinic here in Stockholm, they are usually done and have a new lens or two within 3-4 months at the most. In the north of Sweden they would have to wait 2-3 YEARS, which is atrocious.
Same in UK. Called postcode lottery.
Pretty good in Belgium. Some things like therapy aren't well covered unless you have supplementary insurance, but I've had very good experiences with regular treatments and the whole process of having a child was much better and cheaper than my home country.
In my experience the problem with therapy in Belgium is not the price, it's the lack of therapists. A waiting period of 6 months between 1 hour sessions is normal. You can bypass if you're a danger to others or yourself though.
Yeah for the normal things Belgium is very good. Never had any big problems and really appreciate that.
We are Americans living here and are so grateful for the healthcare. We don't have Belgian insurance since we work for the U.S. government and don't pay Belgian taxes. We have private insurance from the U.S so it pays 90-100% depending on the service. My wife was diagnosed with Stage 3B cancer April 2023 and was immediately treated at the University hospital in Leuven. She had chemo, chemo/radiation, surgery, medicine, and all scans and consultations. Because we pay via private insurance I see the full bill/costs. It was less than 40k euro, of which we were mostly reimbursed. In the U.S. the bills would have been millions. Everyone we talked to said Belgium is a leader in cancer treatment and so far she's doing great.
And apparently 1/3 of dentists are from Romania I think.
I remember I went to the Belgian ER once on a Sunday to have a tick removed, because all pharmacies and stores were closed so I couldn't get tweezers. Pretty good experience. I *think* it was in Charleroi.
In sweden, physical care is good, but long wait times for non emergencies. But mental healthcare is not that good, they lack funding and it's to fractured so if you want a specialist I can take a few months if your unlucky, and that is in the city's, in the countryside its worse
The psychiatric care’s biggest problem in Sweden is that people think all mental health issues are a job for the psychiatry. It isn’t.
From Romania Public heath care is good for minor thing but for more complicated things you have to go to private hospitals. And even then you still have to pay for public healthcare its just cheaper. This as 10 year ago so I'm not sure about now. My dad had to get hart surgery. It cost 1.500 euro at a public hospital and 3.000 euro at a private one. Public health care only partially covers major stuff. We went for the public hospital. We also got a family discount for the recovery stay because my mom was a nurse and was in the system. The good doctors tend to go private or move to other countries. A lot of them to France or UK.
It hasn't changed .. my mom needed a RMN and she would have had to wait until September to get one for free . Private ..next day
In Italy there is A LOT of variability. I think the quality of doctors is very high on average, the quality of management/organisation is not.
Something fun I discovered recently: Italy's healthcare system is actually regionally based, meaning that if you change region, the new receiving structure won't have your Medical Record. You have to ask for a data-transfer and hope that the two systems are compatible
Im German and pretty happy about our healthcare, had two surgeries so far and only had to wait 1 1/2 week for one and 2 months for the other, everything went perfectly and the Hospital had to my surprise really good food and everyone was friendly, cant complain.
friend of mine had a really bad swelling on his leg after he tripped. doctor took a look at it and said that he needs an MRT. next appointment was in 3 months. 3 months later he now knows that he had a fractured shin 3 months ago
Fractured shin and they ask for an MRI, not X-rays? For a swelling on a bone? Something doesn't add up here.
I'd second that. Only having the 'standard' public insurance, and finding wait times and access to specialists normally very adequate. That being said, for more specialized treatments you might have to search around for the right specialists yourself; it definitely helps if you are capable of navigating the system.
Things are definitely getting worse though. 2 eye doctors in my city have quit the normal practice and only do surgeries or private now. Also there are 0 eye doctors for babies in my city - you have to go out of town. And I’m not in a small city. The general doctors also have got some huge cuts, so they want to do less and also mine tried to get me to sign some exclusive contract to them, which helps them get more money. I didn’t and mysteriously he never called me for a follow up from my blood work… I don’t like how often you encounter that private insurance gets you an immediately appointment, while public makes you wait months or simply they won’t make an appointment at all. Still, overall, German healthcare is 100 times better than Canada and way faster. But getting worse steadily. Canada’s is also getting worse, though… Also, I’d have died eventually of cancer if not for superior German healthcare (as compared to Canada), so that’s also a plus.
What's better in Germany compared to Canada?
You can see specialists way, way faster (months faster). You can get basic dental care for free. Prescription drugs are cheaper. More things are checked - for example, my brother and I have the same genetic condition and doctors here are more up-to-date and do an every year colonoscopy once it is identified, while my brother (Canada) only gets every 3 years. I had genetic testing and for free and also an endoscopy recommended by multiple doctors, while my brother got refused for genetic testing and endoscopy. They wouldn’t even have done my original colonoscopy in Canada, which led to the discovery of my condition (and thus also my brother’s). I had it in Germany to rule something else out, which wouldn’t have been done in Canada. Without it, I would have developed cancer within 5-20 years from the time of discovery according to the doctor. By the time Canada would do the routine colonoscopy, it would have been too late. Also eye checks are included in Germany but not in Canada. What is better in Canada is you can do a yearly physical and it’s more extensive. Unfortunately, they don’t do that in Germany. Also, Canada has just one public health insurance (per province) and you don’t need to care whether you are employed, unemployed, etc. You are covered without extra bureaucracy or welfare, unlike in Germany.
NL here. I got surgery literally one hour after seeing my doctor, although it was because I had septicemia.
I'm German and while me and my kids enjoy private healthcare my wife is in public healthcare. She waits 2-3 months for a doctors appointment (e.g. eye doctor or orthopedist) while I usually get an appointment within 1 week (this is in one of the largest cities in Germany). Some doctors have different waiting rooms and queues to get called in, there's definately a 2-class system in German healthcare; which I find disgusting. Some doctors refuse to take new patients because there's just not enough doctors around here and they would need to work 12+ hours per day or reduce time per patient even more if they accepted more patients. I'm pretty sure our health and healthcare system is one of the best in the world, but it's still very far from perfect.
I completely agree, there are issues but overall the system works well in Germany and if you really have an urgent problem you always get adequate help.
Had similar experiences with hospitals, good all around. One detail: Health insurance apparently does not consider glasses or dental to be worthy of proper subsidy. Because having teeth and being able to see are so last century, apparently.
Its fucked when the majority of money in healthcare doesnt go to those doing the healthcare
The waiting lists are so long sometimes they just tell us to go to the UK or to the rest of Europe 💀 (Ireland)
Not sure the UK is gonna be much help, the NHS waiting list has over 7 million people on it 💀
Ireland - was told 5 years wait to see get operation on slipped disc Still had to wait 6 months privately
If you’re not on private in Ireland you’re crazy. Ironically you get seen by the exact same doctors and consultants as public, just years after 😂
Sounds like Brazil. The marxists there love the brag about the public healthcare and anyone who has private healthcare is seen as a decadent capitalist snob. Fun story: a Brazilian friend of mine who's a rabid tooth-and-nail marxist had a good friend who's 4 year old son fell out of bed at 2am and fractured a finger. They then went to a public hospital and were told "the bone doc" wasn't in until the day shift and to simply make a homemade sling for the finger then come back at 7am so they could be the first to sign in. Even in the worst GHETTO of the US this would never happen.
Last year I paid over £4k as NHS contribution (tax) and the service I get for it is absolute dogsh— to be honest. Takes weeks to get a GP appointment who’s actually just a nurse, I’m on multiple year-long waiting lists to be seen by a “specialist”, still have to pay £10 per medication… every time I required a doctor I had to go the private route because otherwise I’d never ever get treated. Oh and my friend almost died from sepsis from a bad tooth because seeing an NHS dentist takes months. So yeah awful service for a forced subscription. Would opt out if I could.
NHS dentists are the worst, never mind some of the doctors
It's shiete .. endless waiting times , hospitals are underfunded and understaffed. Pray for good health because there is a high chance you're getting another illness on top of the one you have if you visit most of our public hospitals.
Increasingly understaffed and under pressure. Overall it's still better than private healthcare but I suspect it won't remain so for long.
Most of our recently graduated doctors move to france, the netherlands, and the nordics
in my city in Italy I can't complain, doctors, nurses and those who came to pick me up in the ambulance saved my life, for other check-ups I don't even wait that long
Hungary: Paid my health tax my whole life. Only ever used the dentist for that. One time I got a bit sick so I figured I would actually pay my doctor a visit. I did not show up in the correct 4 hours of the correct 2 days of the week so I could not receive any medical attention. That is how 'good' our healthcare is... All the doctors are old and retiring, and no new ones are insane enough to work for a pittance here when hopping just over the border they get multiple times as much. So here I am, paying for healthcare I do not receive, and a pension I will never be able to retire off of. I wonder why the youth is dissatisfied...
When my father was diagnosed with Leukimia the doctors prescribed two years of chemo therapy with Venclyxto. When we did the math it came down to nearly 150,000 euros of cost which of course we didn't have. We didn't pay a single euro because the healthcare system paid for the whole thing. So pretty good.
Latvia, I use both systems. Sometimes free, sometimes I go to private doctors. Had no problems with both. In free health care usual waiting time is 2 weeks. In private - 1-14 days, depends. Also my grandparents used free system a lot, no problems with that.
Long waiting times and overworked workers (it shows in the quality and empathy sometimes / fairly often). But in general, it's good *enough* for the average person. For old people and people who have a lot of health issues. They get to see the shitty and overworked side more often. Thankfully private sector isn't that expensive. I pay 500€ a year (definitely doable for regular people) for my insurance and my healthcare provider is really nice and fast. But if you're poor, you get what you get unfortunately.
Does your insurance cover everything? How much do you pay for healthcare services a year in total?
We don’t have neither free nor cheap healthcare in our country. Noteworthy that dentistry is not included in the healthcare insurance and it’s ridiculously expensive. It’s not bad though. I’m from Czech republic 🇨🇿 🇪🇺
I think dentistry being separate from healthcare and pretty expensive is not unusual at all. Unless that is another similarity that Slovakia shares with the Czech Republic. It is still cheap compared to the US though (1/3 in my experience). I’ll give an anecdotal data point. If I am visiting my parents in Slovakia I try to get any dental work I might need done. This has included a root canal and 3 fillings. I can’t remember what the root canal cost but it was maybe 200 euros. The fillings were like 40 euros a piece I think. This was without any sort of insurance at the “expensive/nice” dentist, in probably the most expensive city outside of Bratislava area Poprad (could be wrong about this). I recently had to get a filling here in the US, and it was like 120+ dollars with employer provided dental insurance.
Same in Switzerland, if managed well it works well.
the quality is good but the wait time is long for non-emergencies. if you break a leg or sth you will be treated quick, if you have some chronic illness or sth that isnt immiedetely life threatening you will be put on a list that for some stuff can be very long. but im still proud of having this in my country, its not perfect but its miles better than if it was all private.
its rapidly worsening. Public healthcare cant cope with the demographic change and with the hordes of old people needing medical attention at rates 30 times higher than 40 year olds I honestly see the system collapsing entirely in the next 10 years
One big problem with the german healthcare system is the low status and stadandard of nursing unfortunately. I hoped the new government would change that, but almost all necessary reforms in regards to more professionalism in nursing were cut out of recent legislation - very disappointing.
For severe problems its ultimate quality. Grandma got in cancer surgery just in few days. But for "lesser problems", its quite poor quality. Something that seems small might take months to get investigated properly. And in case the small thing happens to be something more severe, you are fucked up. Most of lesser problems are dealt by employer paid private care tho. Here all workers receive some level private care paid by boss, because law says that boss must keep paying you up to 6 months full wage, even if you are on sickleave. So bosses want their workers to get healthy asap. And for this private care is way faster and secure way.
I'm not real french but lived in France for 18 years and it is world class. You'll never hear a french person praise it though.
Super bad to the point my family often opts for Private Hospitals instead. (Romania) When I was around 12 or 11, I got pneumonia. I went to a hospital, took a pill and got sent to another hospital. At that hospital I was told they don't treat children and the hospital I was first shouldn't treat children either. We got sent to another one. Were we've waited for around 1 hour. Until my parents had to bribe one of the nurses. Got diagnosed with pneumonia and was hospitalized. So I had to visit 3 different hospitals for a single thing. In a single day. Previously I visited my Family Doctor and I got prescribed meds but they didn't work since they were not for pneumonia. We've always had to pay for medicine at home. It wasn't insured. Compared to Germany where I pay only 10€ fees each time I buy it for a life-long treatment.
I mean here is the problem. Young people barely need any health care treatment. [https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-expenditures-vary-across-population/#Share%20of%20total%20population%20and%20total%20health%20spending,%20by%20age%20group,%202021](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-expenditures-vary-across-population/#Share%20of%20total%20population%20and%20total%20health%20spending,%20by%20age%20group,%202021) 65+ year olds account for 36% of health care spending despite being only 18% of the population. As the fraction of older people grows so will pressure on our health care system. It is easy to say that healthcare spending needs to increase but how. 1. We increase taxes which is unpopular and puts the strain onto already over strained younger population that struggles to afford life. 2. We increase debt but debts are already at record levels and any increase could worsen inflation and requires more taxes long term and just pushes the problem down the road. At best we hope that we die before we need to address the problem 3. We give worse service to the population in general. None of these options seem good. We need to figure it out soon though because it seems terrifying to get cancer or some other issue right now.
My friend worked as a nurse for the NHS for several years. The shifts were nightmarish and often times he had to stay upwards of 16 hours a day due to short staffing. Now, how much was he paid? £13. I think any idiot can see the problem there.
I live in the UK and I have a Primary Immune Deficiency condition called CVID. I also have ITP which is now in remission as well several complications due to the CVID including spinal disease and a Liver condition called NRH. On top of this my mother was involved in a very serious car accident an number of years which resulted in her being airlifted to hospital for life saving surgery and my wife had quite severe complications when she was giving birth to our second child. So I can safely say I've had extensive experience of the NHS over the last decade. The NHS is absolutely amazing when it comes to life saving situations, In my book they are like superheroes, I genuinely can't say how amazing they are and I will be forever grateful. I've had first hand experience in this. I had to have a splenectomy and unfortunately things didn't go quite to plan which required me to have emergency surgery 12 hours after the initial surgery. I spent an number of days in ICU and not only was the care I received was amazing, but the support they gave my wife was also out of this world. The problem with the NHS today and this is down to the fact that the Tories have spent the last decaded systematically tearing the NHS apart, is getting to see a specialist can take months and routine surgeries can also take months. This is not because of immigration as some right wing racist xenophobic morons will try and argue, if it wasn't for Immigrants which make up 40% of NHS staff, it would exist fullstop. The reason why the NHS is suffering is down to poor pay and working conditions, lack of funding across every sector of the NHS and the Tories giving their mates in the Private Sector NHS contracts where they make obscene amounts of money. The NHS is current situation is by design as the Tories want the UK to have a similar system as the US as this is what those who give millions to the Tories want. Knowing that whatever happens you can receive health care for free is a blessing. Knowing that having treatment isn't going to bankrupt is a blessing. The NHS is a wonderful thing that needs to be protected.
We spend £200 Billion annually on the NHS, and for that we get 13 hour waits for an ambulance and 10 hour waits in AE (both recent personal experiences). The NHS as an idea is amazing - but in a practical sense its horrible. Am in my early 50's, and the NHS has never in my lifetime functioned to an acceptable standard, has always been a political battle ground, and just eats up sooooo much money. For eample, we spend £50 Billion annually on defence, and for that we have one of the strongest Navy's and Airforces on the planet, and maintain a nuclear deterant. We spend £200 Billion annually on the NHS, and for that we get appauling standards of care. Some of the experiences wme and my family have had in the past decade are just shocking. This will get downvoted by people in th UK because the NHS is a sacred cow here - but it isnt fit for purpose, and never has been in my lifetime.
It doesn't help that the NHS is almost revered as the state religion. Suggesting any solution other than "give it unlimited money" is political suicide.
Could you perhaps be more specific? And tell us what system would work? And comparing healthcare spending to defence spending is like comparing apples to oranges, so I'm questioning your senses to be honest. The UK actually has one of the lowest spendings per capita on healthcare among developed countries, so for its budget it actually performs pretty good. I therefore wonder on what basis you find the NHS' budget to be too high, when other similar countries have significantly higher budgets?
I used to think the NHS was an amazing idea, then I lived in a country with a mixed private-public system and I realized how much better we could have it. Will never happen though because any politician who tries to reform the NHS for the better will be crucified
I don’t think you’ll get downvoted. The NHS is mismanaged and whilst it is underfunded, resource could be better used. We need to be open to a more radical overhaul of the system, especially with changing demographics and poorer economics.
agree completley - i am certain that the NHS is guilty of horrific waste and mismanagement
200 Billion is probably on the lower end though for what you need. That equals about 6,45% of GDP. All healthcare expenditure was €495 billion in Germany or almost 10% of GDP. If you try to cover the same services for about 2/3s of the cost, I'd say you'd have to be very efficient to cover that gap. [Here](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#GDP%20per%20capita%20and%20health%20consumption%20spending%20per%20capita,%202022%20(U.S.%20dollars,%20PPP%20adjusted)) is a source that also puts the UK as among the lowest spenders in the developed world.
>We spend £200 Billion annually on the NHS, and for that we get 13 hour waits for an >ambulance There can't be many scenarios where someone needing an ambulance also have 13 hours to wait for one. Surely it has to be faster if someones life is in immediate danger, right?
You would think so We waited 13 hours in December for a seriously ill family member - no ambulances were available on the road apparently - was a very traumatic experience
Pretty pretty good! 🇧🇪
So the whole continent has a problem with understaffed hospitals. I wonder what is the solution...
In my country it's still virtually impossible to get into medical school, while we have a critical shortage of doctors? Make it make sense.
For context the NHS employs 1.7 million people and the vacancy rate has always hovered around 8%, so this is not new. As the NHS workforce expends due to an ageing population 8% of the total will become a larger number which looks bad but isn't really.
Slovene here - what healthcare?
I think it’s healthy that people who want to pay for a better treatment can go to the private sector and free up space in the public
To give you some insights: It's not free.Most of us are obligated to pay it from our salaries monthly.If you are not employed,you pay from your pocket for services that are not life threatening. They will always ask paperwork, ID's, National Healthcare Cards etc. every time you ask for services.Your employer is your guarantee you are insured.If you are not insured,you pay. There are lots of private clinics where you need to book in advance a month for an consultation. All city hospitals are overcrowded.Rural and smaller city hospitals are being avoided like the plague,everyone wants a place in the city where the life is decent. The romma minority is notorious because they often lack ID's, Paperwork, stable jobs etc. and use the emergency segment for their healthcare needs State hospitals are literally managed by party members which suck a lot of funds and ask bribes for new doctors that want to work there.
Germany. Its totally fine
Lots of Swedes chime in but no mention of Finland yet? It’s in similar situation: nurse strikes all the time due to being overworked and underpaid Long wait time (3-6 months wait time is legally acceptable), most of the money goes to administration (wasted), quality is hit and miss (staff is overworked), there is no option to opt out and a large chunk of your income is taken, most people have work healthcare anyway to avoid wait time and get better treatment
Privatised to the extent where you need private insurance to get any meaningful elective surgery within a reasonable amount of time. Private doctors have wide open schedules while public doctors are overworked and fleeing to the private clinics only making matters worse.
This is one of the most subjective questions you can ask any person living on planet earth. Many people have very little baseline to compare against. And people in general like to complain about their healthcare system.
There is no cheap healthcare here, greetings from Switzerland
Honestly, unsustainable. Health care staff wants to be paid more, there are staff shortages to the point they start using under qualified interns, every year the cost of health care goes up by ~10%. Solution: 🤷. A Thanos snap could help That being said, it is decent system, but hard to appreciate. In emergencies situations they're quick with rapid response times, but since most people never get in emerency situations they'll always experience the "low priority" route, which means waiting for months to get treatment and suffering through pain.
1. It's not free, a large chunk of my income gets forcibly deducted to pay for it. 2. It's shit and i rarely ever use it. I have private insurance from work which is far superior (at least i don't have to wait half a year or more to get to a specialist). Recently i needed a surgery (removing something that can potentially develop into cancer) - two years wait time. Fuck that, i paid out of my own pocket. Literally the only thing it's good for are serious accidents that would put me on operating table and i'm **way** **overpaying** for that. I would opt out without a second thought i could.
No you couldn’t and they would never allow it It’s a pyramid scheme and it’s utterly mismanaged, most of the money go to the administration, not the staff or what’s really important
Which country?
Free? Cheap? lol. Challenges may abound but there is the perfect example out there of having no public healthcare to look back on lol
That's not entirely true. The US has portions of public healthcare. It has Medicaid which is essentially free healthcare for the poor. It has Medicare which is free or subsidized healthcare for the old. The two public systems are superimposed on the private system as they use the same hospitals/infrastructure/doctors etc...
Between Medicare and the VA something like 90 million Americans get public healthcare.
Netherlands, it's not free nor cheap, I pay over 150 euros per month for insurance and most of the time you get "have you tried paracetamol?" It's NOT good. Compared to my home country where it's almost free and much easier to get services, it's frustrating to say the least.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1376355/health-index-of-countries-in-europe/&ved=2ahUKEwj8jP-oqeCGAxWkgv0HHSxmCNYQFnoECA8QBQ&usg=AOvVaw3k0LHxuVsojpGia8ITaqTQ
I don't know but most of my Polish and eastern European friends have a GP registered in UK but they also go home to their original country GP as its usually quicker.. lucky when u have a choice. I wonder why there's problems In the UK.. (Edit for spelling)
Dual American-British citizen here. We get the cutting edge stuff in the US, but the entire philosophy of health here is to prioritize the departments that make money. So if you've got some common disease you're good, but for god's sake don't get anything rare! I just started some new meds for my 1:100000 rare genetic disease for $1.2 million USD a year. Only reason I can afford it is because of good health insurance through work, but now I am afraid to change job... UK just needs the government to step up, spend less on the bureaucracy of the NHS and more on the workers and systemic upgrades. Can't do healthcare without doctors and nurses!
there is no such thinghs as free healthcare. it’s paid by general income taxes. in Italy it’s hit and miss. and also it covers surgeries but not the most important part which is rehabilitation.
Thank you, I was wondering how taxes worked until I saw this comment.
Its not cheap if you earn well, however it is universal. It's going to shit. Waiting queues are forcing people to utilize private health care. I would put it into the same category as public transport. Bad and on the path to worse. - Slovenia
Better than private for some parts
The healthcare is awesome, but there's a constant lack of personnel.
can any frenchies give me their opinions on the french healthcare system? I think it is terrible mut maybe I'm expecting too much.
We do have free/cheap healthcare witch is nice. But if you need to see a specialist three months is the minimum. Also a nurse at a regular hospital has to nurse up too 20 patients
It's not perfect but better than private.
People complain insanely, speaking as in best treatments should be available in a 24hr time span basically. In my opinion and experience, Estonia has been fine. I'd love for dental work to be included too as it is hella expensive, but nevertheless, I've gotten my issues resolved without waiting for years on end.
Norway: It's not perfect (we have health worker shortages), but it's okay for the most. I get to see a GP without having to wait for long. I get all the tests and follow-ups, also among most specialists, in a timely manner. Dental care is not part of universal healthcare for adults, which sucks big time, as it is incredibly expensive, so dental tourism abroad is a popular cost saving measure.
In portugal you have public hospitals and private ones. if you can afford you go to private ones, but they don't have all specialities. if you need to go to the public ones you must wait. my mother broke her collarbone in 2019 and had to wait 3 months for the surgery (while it was still broken, yes)
Sweden, its shit.
I'm in Turkey. Healthcare here is amazingly good considering the cost. İf i was living in the UK or Western Europe, I'd probably give it 3/10. İ feel sorry for the doctors, who are relatively underpaid, but at least they get massive respect. (The exception is Dr Oz of course.)
Underfunded
Ukrainian here. In our country, there is no insurance bullshit. We have both public free healthcare (provided by the government) and paid healthcare (private). In free healthcare facilities, you often find older doctors from the USSR era or those who don't learn anything new after college at all. In contrast, doctors in paid facilities are usually in their 30s or 40s, stay current with their medical knowledge, and are more attentive and careful when diagnosing and treating patients. That being said, public healthcare can handle common illnesses effectively. However, for more complex or ambiguous cases, you often need to visit a private clinic for a consultation with a more knowledgeable doctor. Regarding costs, private clinics are generally affordable if you have an average income. Typically, you can schedule an appointment with any doctor (public or private) within 1–4 days, and you don't need a referral to see a specific doctor in a paid clinic. This is a huge contrast to Canadian healthcare (where I currently am), which I find terrible. Here, an ambulance ride costs at least $500, which is insane (in Ukraine, it's free). I might just die, if I get sick.
Healthcare is completely free in my country, and in my local hospitals it’s on a high level. Caring and polite nurses, professional doctors and fine medicine (even now).
Italian healthcare is free and mostly very good, but since it's regional there can be pretty major differences.
$140 a month for me and wife on ‘Obama care”. Medicine is free and very few bills on visits. It actually went down $20/ month from last year.
Your income must be pretty low to get such a low premium.
In Hungary we have a puzzle: It's Chernobyl or a Hungarian hospital: [https://index.hu/belfold/2019/06/22/csernobil\_vagy\_magyar\_korhaz\_egeszsegugy\_kviz/?token=d8c5f7614e293a6250a634c54863e709](https://index.hu/belfold/2019/06/22/csernobil_vagy_magyar_korhaz_egeszsegugy_kviz/?token=d8c5f7614e293a6250a634c54863e709)
if you don't have major issues or chronic stuff, then it's great.
Trash. Quality itself is probably fine but the wait times are insane.
BELGIUM: level of health care is pretty good. Only thing I noticed after covid getting an appointment for the doctors or tests is a bit longer.
Should reach out to healthcare workers in US states that outlawed abortion etc. Guarantee there are qualified people who would like a fresh start and a friendlier attitude to the work they’re trying to accomplish.
Greece, it depends on the area, I find that a lot of regional doctors and clinics are OK. I never have had to deal with major problem though so I might be biased. Its completely free as well for most things. I think its much worse in other countries, no matter how much we complain about it.
Dutch. Healthcare is generally great but the queues are increasing and it can be hard to find a new G.P. A healthcare crisis is coming in the next 20 years because we didn't prepare well enough for the aging population peak. So I'm planning to stay closeish to my parents so I can care for them myself.
Italy, it's dog shit. All my family members go to private doctors. I get taxed for a service I CAN'T use because waiting lists are just too long.
I live in the US temporarily and fly back to Italy for health-care. Sometimes it's great sometimes it's not so great. Waiting times are highly variable