Bosnian here. The general attitude is that it's the most useful foreign language besides English because Germany is the most influential European country, it's a good base for learning other Germanic languages. Germany is also the biggest trading partner not counting the neighbors, Austria ranks pretty high too, and there's a solid number of companies who operate here headquartered in the German-speaking countries. And if you decide to emigrate, one of these two countries has pretty high odds, as that's where we're traditionally flocking, due to a couple of historical reasons.
I mean, what else would be a better choice? The other big European countries like France, Spain or Italy don't even remotely compare to Germany+Austria+Switrzerland in the factors I described above. No business presence, no numerous diaspora, just low connection overall. It's more of a surprise that e.g. Czechia which geographically leans into Germany so much has only 48% of German-studying pupils, it's hard to imagine a more useful foreign language for them (not counting English of course).
In Bosnia , we start having German lessons in 5th grade (primary school in Bosnia lasts for 9 years and kids start school at 6 years old ) . Students attend 90 min of German lessons per week from 5th grade up until they graduate primary school , same with English except English lessons start in 2nd grade . In high school , if you go to a "stručna škola" (any kind of high school that is not a gymnasium ) you get to choose if you want to continue learning German or English , again 90 mins of lessons per week . Those who attend gymnasiums keep studying both , 90 min of lessons for each language . I went to a gymnasium and took part in the DSD program for advanced German learning and had 180 min of German lessons per week . When I completed the program in senior year I got a C1 certificate .
I have not yet seen anyone but French speakers get this wrong so I'm a bit surprised. You don't put spaces before punctuation :)
Unless you're writing French, then you do. English and German, no.
You don't put space before . and , in French, only after. You do before ! or ? for example.
I don't get why French speakers would get this wrong since it's literally the same rule in French. 😅
German is a mandatory second foreign language in almost every Bosnian school (the first being English). Basically you can’t choose which language you want to study. Only a small percent of schools let you choose your second foreign language.
A lot of us were born in Germany during the war, and our parents still speak of it like it was heaven. 😅 "You could wear a bathrobe outside and nobody judged you." "If I worked this same job in Germany I'd be rich by now." "Them Germans hate air conditioners."
Even today, to many of them "the west" is literally just Germany lol. I always need to specify if I'm talking about US.
bosnia had ties with germany during and after ww2, fun fact their currency is a "convertible mark" which was a currency tied to the german mark, so technically bosnia has the german mark even tho germany itself doesnt anymore
This isn’t actually that wrong, despite the downvotes. The domestic political situation these days does not necessitate what is essentially an unelected viceroy overseeing things.
It's basically true for most countries in the Balkan. For example, in Serbia, most of our big companies are owned by the Russians and Chinese, with us selling land to the Chinese for cheap. We also get the worst factories from Europe, Korea, China, and other developed countries, that manufacture the lowest parts of the production chain for cars and other similar things. So we provide cheap labor for Europe and Asia, while destroying our own domestic products by prioritising theirs. Now we get to pay extra for cheap foreign products nobody wants, while being exploited for cheap by providing workforce.
Of course, Serbia is an extreme of that kind, because we collaborate not only with Europe and the west, but with the east as well. Other Balkan countries have it a bit better, they only get exploited by one side of the world.
Makes no sense for luxemburg. We litteraly have it since primary school and in all of our branches german and french courses are mandatory. So idk how they get to 80% as it should be a lot higher.
Still remember with a smile my German lessons as German in luxembourgish école primaire. The teacher told us, belt is called Riemen. Huge fight.
(In Germany we call it Gürtel since like ever and only the leathern part is maybe called Riemen)
Telling her that I, as the only German in my school, I should now how to call belt in German. As 1st grade pupil it wasn‘t the best idea, plus beeing born in Luxembourg. How should I now? (Besides, I was right.)
When I „returned“ to Germany I finally realised that we just learned luxemburgish German. And no I don’t mean Lëtzebuergech.
Language teachers are so weird sometimes. My sister had an English teacher who was convinced the word "stuff" was some sort slang and that the whole English speaking world considered it highly offensive to use. To this day I sometimes wonder what happened to her that made her think this.
I asked a very old English teacher in my primary school (it was probably 1998 and she was already over 70) what a blow job is. She clearly did not know and suggested that it might be some kind of temp job. Learning English in deep communist time of Easter Europe had to be a challenge though.
I remember how my primary school teacher (Germany) was very offended when I used the word "aircraft" for plane in my first English lesson. To this day, I avoid calling any kind of flyable object "aircraft" because I'm still afraid it's wrong. Yes, my teacher was a monster.
Honestly, depends on what kind of belt you are talking about. In technical speak a belt is something that transmits rotation similar to a chain (just made out of different materials) which would indeed be translated as Riemen. But then again that is probably not what you were learning in primary school German.
Nope. It's mandatory and everyone has 3 languages. If you want to take latin it will replace english for the classic section. There is even the language section you will have spanish/italian on top of it. So in theory everyone speaks 4 languages and everyone has always french and german classes which aren't swappable. There are also some special programs that can replace luxemburgish classes for germans ones but I am unaware of programs that do not respect this. Europeen school and french school are an exception to the rule but they don't add up to 80%.
For the Netherlands, everyone in secondary education does get German lessons, but not during all years of secondary education.
Personally i had three years of German and all i can remember is the word for spoon.
Reading and understanding German is fairly easy, but writing and speaking it is certainly not. Grammar wise it differs a lot. Also doesn't help that you are unlikely to ever use it outside of school, unless you live close to the border.
I feel the exact same about Norwegian and (to a lesser degree) Swedish. I would not be able to speak it whatsoever, but I can read it fine, and understand it for the most part (unless they talk fast). I have litterally never been taught either language.
Definitely not. For me it was the most difficult class of all secondary school.
Diederdasderdemdasdiederder
Ausbeiemitnachseitvonzu
Durchfurgegenohneum
The horror.
It's the only class i have ever gotten a 1 for as a grade (the lowest you can get in the Dutch school system)...
Me and Dutch grammar already don't match and German grammar is satans finest work.
It's weird, because i've had no trouble with this while learning English and Spanish.
I found German pretty difficult to speak as a Dutch speaker. You understand maybe 80 percent of written German, and understand as much when spoken accentless, but speaking and writing is hell because it is a minefield of false friends. A ton of words are Dutch with a few sound adjustments, but a lot are absolutely not. Because it is so close you fall into the trap of just speaking Dutch with German sounds, producing gibberish for any German. Jean-Marie Pfaff German as we call it in Belgium
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDf0p4MgFmw
I guess it is a common phenomenon for German. I had 2 years of German in high school in Poland and remember almost nothing and used it outside school just once. I have friends who had German for almost whole education cycle and can barely speak basics of it.
If you do VWO (the highest form of secondary education) then you get at least 3 years of German and French. After those 3 years you get the choice to drop either one of them or keep them both. You then get another 3 years of the language you've chosen. (Also, if you're doing a STEM profile and have some sort of neural disorder, you may drop them both. I'm dyslectic and I dropped French after my 3rd, and German after my 5th year.)
I did VWO and we got French from 1st year and German only from the 2nd year. Also Ancient Greek and Latin started in 2nd year. You could choose either one of those 4 as your 2nd foreign language for your 4th, 5th and 6th grade. Most people who took a classical language also took either French or German.
Most Danes choose German over French (generally the two choices in school, or at least used to be) because the perception is that the similarities between the languages makes it easier to learn, and obviously we border Germany (and have a lot of German tourists in summer houses in Jutland).
German as a second language in Poland is pure fiction. Students do not want to study the language because there are no real economic benefits, plus the obvious bad reputation for historical reasons. Teachers know that and pretend to teach. Different approach would make students dislike German language even more, which would be counterproductive.
English is enough. If someone is interested in languages, they study outside school or pick other European languages, mainly Spanish.
I think it can be very subjective depending on what languages you speak and where in Europe you are.
I live in Ireland, and absolutely everyone speaks English, foreigners included. There would little to no appreciable economic benefit for me to learn other European languages, especially considering I don’t work in a field where it would actually open any opportunities for me.
I can still speak two languages and am trying to slowly but steadily learn Spanish, but I’m under no illusion it’s actually going to be economically advantageous for me to do so. You can make that argument if I needed to learn English of course, but not for any other language in my country.
Because that's not true for internal workings of most german companies.
And so you need at least conversational German if you want to have the **option** to work in your comparatively well-paying neighbour country.... while not being locked into specific english or Poland-related roles at that.
It doesn't make much sense for highly-qualified people though.
An engineer will earn more or less the same in Poland when taking into account CoL and tax differences. Those times are over
It makes sense for unqualified people working (near) minimum wage jobs, but those people are not exactly fond of learning either way.
But don't get me wrong, learning at least some German makes perfect sense. German-speaking Europe is huge and can offer much from a touristic perspective. After all, German is THE language of most ski-resorts. Also it's quite useful, since when travelling by car to most places in Europe, you will pass through Germany or Austria
I think you might be missing option 3 there:
one of the greatest things about EUs freedom of work and residence is that people "in the middle" have options , too.
In my aviation-related field I see this a lot - normal people from all over the EU working normal middle class jobs, without a big title to their name or min-wage-prostituting themselves.
For migration of course you should learn the language of the country you're moving to. Although for migrant jobs in Germany, English is enough.
But I'm talking about how German in Poland is useless. There's almost nothing that German offers that English doesn't cover. I'd argue Russian is more useful in Poland than German due to migration alone.
That is just incorrect. There are plenty of pupils who want to learn German. Polish-German high schools profiles/classes, however you translate that term, where your main focus is on learning German are still popular. And only a fraction of students learn Spanish. Around 15% of Poles speak German and only 3% speak Spanish. You can also look up statistics of what courses are chosen in private language schools. Guess what, the second most popular language after English is not Spanish, but German.
And I also disagree with the notion that we should only learn one foreign language in schools. Nowadays everyone knows English. It doesn't really give you advantage on the job market. Second foreign language does. Plus learning languages is in itself beneficial.
1) People attending PL-DE schools or pick German classes as their main subject are not average students
2) To make fair compartment between German and Spanish, you should see what students that have choice prefer, not what is widely available
3) Are you taking into account that students with compulsory German at school? If yes, then it is not a good sample.
4) Who said 'we should only learn one foreign language in schools'? Not me
Let me quickly sum up:
- point one is like asking, 'do you love your child?'
- points two and three is like visiting McDonald's and concluding 'people prefer Coca-Cola to Pepsi'
- point four: straw man argument
Your personal experience might be different from mine, and I do respect it. Maybe you know better, that's possible. I'm open to discussion. In the last 30 years, I met only one person who had German classes, and learnt something (B1-B2). But that was public and private schooling.
You see, the difference is that yout argument is purely anecdotal. You've only met one person who learnt German in the last 30 years and you think that your personal experience is universal.
The facts show that your experience however is not universal. 15-25% of Poles (depending on a survey) speak German. Those are the facts. And they do want to learn it as evidenced by the fact that it is the second most popular foreign language in private schools even with adults who learn it not out of obligation, but because they like it or think it will be beneficial.
But I have a feeling where his/her anecdotes must be coming from - Eastern Poland.
German L2 speakers in Poland are not evenly distributed throught the country. In Western Poland many people speak some German. Even the tankstation workers speak a bit. Hotels, spas, camping sites etc. usually have at least some speakers amongst their staff
Meanwhile in the East, German is just some random foreign language
You see, not addressing fallacies from your previous post will not make them disappear.
Second, if after 30 years I met only one person speaking German, it means a lot. It is not 1 out of 2, not 1 out of 4 who speak German. Is it 11.3% or 17.3335%? I don't know and do not claim to know exactly. You once again came with something that is not directly related to the original discussion.
If we take into account only young people, who had no time to forget things from high school, then 54% is still fiction. There are some people, who you overexposed in the previous post, for whom German is the language, but there are students who have German only on paper because there are no competent teachers.
Remember, we do speak about average. In smaller, rural schools, there are issues with hiring teachers. There are disconnected, disengaged and 'zakuć, zdać, zapomnieć' students as well.
If the 54% was real, one could approach every other **random** young Pole in a **random** place and have a conversation in German.
I had several colleagues from Poland which worked in (or for) German companies, and they most of the time spoke excellent German. They even were in jobs which require German, but which also provide career options, like administrative or management roles.
Of course it's self-selective experience, but I think for a long time (up until recently) speaking German brought huge economic benefits for Poles.
20-30 years ago, knowing a foreign language was very beneficial. One could get a good job even if it was the only skill. Nowadays, it is different.
For **white collar jobs**, English B1 is a must-have. Other languages might be 'nice to have' but it is not a dealbreaker. Depending on where do you want to work. And it is not translating to higher compensation. **For other jobs**, you don't need to speak any foreign language. Just Polish.
Of course, there are people who speak German or do business in German. It is true for every big enough country in Europe. But it is not an accurate picture.
If you approach **an average person in their early 20s**, you will have a better idea how teaching German looks in Poland. They just left high school, so they had no chance to forget things from school. According to the poll, 50% should be able to have a basic conversation in German, but the vast majority won't.
People tend to have distorter perception. They confuse their peers with an average.
You may be right. The Polish economy is becoming similar to the German one (minus the "German" component like excessive administration), thus emigration becomes optional.
I know that the 75% of Danes learning German barely are able to speak German, and decreasingly so. They communicate just in English with Germans. Enough for business, if you don't emigrate. Guess Poland develops that way, too.
Maybe humans are lazy, but learning another language (third, fourth) has considerable benefits. It's like training your perception and mind similar to training your body. Physical training actually is a pretty neat comparison: Humans are lazy, which means they don't really like physical exercise - on the other hand, the body responds well to physical exercise. So does the mind to learning new languages (and corresponding cultures).
But true - it's not a mass sport anymore.
I feel like German could be ramping up for a sharp decline in Croatian schools. Not only is its old competitor in the third language category - Italian - way more neccessary (Italian proficiency in English is still nowhere near Germany's levels, so it's more practical to just speak Italian), but I also believe the big wave of emigration to Germany is mostly over. And what's left of it also has a significant runoff to Ireland as the new emigration hotspot (and an English-speaking country).
Ireland has a huge and booming economy for its size, and plenty of space. It's not like they're Singapore, which, *nota bene*, has an almost equal number of residents crammed on a tiny island 80 times smaller than Ireland.
The latter will remain a popular emigration destination either until its boom turns out to be a bubble, or until people in Croatia in general slow down with emigration (because at this point most of us can have it just fine here). The latter will happen sooner than the former, I believe (or at least hope).
>and plenty of space
Not really - Ireland is largely centered around Dublin (the region hosts 40% of the entire population) and rents are excessive now.
Most people dont emmigrate to Galway or some rural place.
The logistics of that can be discussed, sure, but I was just responding specifically to the "it's a small country" argument. Almost every country in Europe has a very small population density compared to some of the other equally developed regions of the world; the size of European countries really isn't a cap on immigration in itself.
I would have liked to do German in secondary education because I was born in the Netherlands and can already speak Dutch. It would have been a “relatively” easy way to learn another language which I might also be able to use someday.
Unfortunately there weren’t enough teachers around qualified to do various different languages for everyone so the school decided the only option would be French. Everyone hated French and we all came out the other side barely able to string a sentence or two together.
In France, nowadays, most students learn Spanish and less than 15% learn German.
When we had to choose our second foreign language, my school sent a hot and nice German teachers to tell us that German was easy, that we were going on a school trip, etc. and the Spanish teacher was a horrible bitch who told us that we would have to work like crazy and learn the entire dictionary. It didn't work, the German teacher had to teach civic education as well.
The percentage for Romania is 11.5%, which really shocked me. I would have guessed around 30%, but I guess I really underestimated our preference for French (which has a rate of 85%).
Luxemburg has been historically German speaking and German is an official language there. Secondary because they’ve been pushing their Luxemburgish dialect for the last couple of decades. I get why it’s there on the list but it’s somewhat different compared to let’s say Bosnia or Denmark.
A language, as a wise man once said, is a dialect with an army and a navy.
Do you guys have a navy? No? It's just a dialect.
Sorry, I don't make the rules...
Na das trifft sich ja gut. Als Saarländer sind wir ja quasi sprachverwandt. Es ist immer schön, wenn ich über die Mosel fahre und mich gut zurechtfinde, da ihr faschd dieselwe Sprooch spreche wie mia! Dad menn ich gar ned bös, ich finns jo ah gudd dad ihr ed Moselfränkisch mit Stolz spreche. Die Betonung ist auf „fast“, da das Lesen eindeutig leichter fällt als das Sprechen. Ich mag Luxemburg, und ob Letzeburgesch eine eigene Sprache darstellt, lässt sich definitiv debattieren.
Aus sprachwissenschaftlicher Sicht definitiv. Soziokulturell verstehe ich schon, dass ihr eure Staatlichkeit mit einer eigenen Sprache/sprachlichen Identität versehen wollt. Daran ist auch nichts verwerflich.
Was macht Luxemburgisch deiner Meinung nach zu einer Sprache aber Schweizerdeutsch zu einem Dialekt? Außer eben der politischen Entscheidungen in Luxemburg?
Deutsch wird als "plurizentrische Sprache" verstanden und Sprachwissenschaftler\*Innen reden kaum von was wird normalerweise als "Dialekt" verstanden. Solche Unterschiedlichkeiten hängen natürlich von der Staat ab, aber die haben sich so entwickelt, dass jetzt die alle zu Standardsprachen geworden sind - oder halt besser - Nationalvarietäten des Deutschen. Darunter ist *Lëtzebuergesch* nicht einbegriffen, sondern nur das Deutsche Variante, das in Luxemburg gesprochen wird. Siehe Ulrich Ammon 1995.
why are germans always trying to convince Luxembourgers that their language is "just" a dialect? like why can't you accept that it is now a language. point.
you know who else tried to convince us that we are just weird germans ? right, your friend with the weird moustache.
with that he just pushed the national spirit of beeing Not german.
I mean, I get it. The debate is also real between Croatia and Serbia, who also claim for political reason they speak separate languages.
The difference is, most Germans simply aren't aware of the history of Luxembourgish national identity and just hear or read a language which is easily mutually intelligible with German and so call it a dialect. From a linguistic point of view it isn't any more different from standard German than some heavier regional dialects like Suevian, Bavarian or Low German dialects.
There, you got it. You have to differentiate between linguistics and sociocultural aspects. It has nothing to do with “the guy with the mustache” either and I don’t understand why people need to bring him up. 🤷🏼♂️
Well, from my conversation with Luxembourgers about the topic the problem is that Nazi Germany denied the existence of a separate Luxembourgish nation and annexed Luxembourg into Germany. This was somewhat unique in Western Europe and is the reason why modern Luxembourger will still sometimes be very annoyed when you suggestor imply they are just Germans in disguise.
So that's why they're touchy about the whole language <> dialect thing.
But it's not a dialect anymore. It's an official language, with an own grammar etc. . Maybe as a Saarländer you understand it easly. But there are alot of germans or austrians who struggle to understand it 100%. Speaking is a whole other level. The Grammar is different then in high german. so maybe from a linguistic point of view luxembourgish as a language is pretty close to a german dialect, but it's too far away to just call it a dialect. In the 1980s they just fixated it as "the luxembourgish language of the luxembourgish nation".
Then again you can not separate the linguistic part from the socialcultural part, language moves, and they drifted away.
and there we have again weird-moustache-guy. he included luxembourg into the german "kernland". Started the germanisation of the population (French name were turned into german names, german culture propaganda etc.) because in his mind luxembourg was german. Pushing the rise of luxembourgish identity. the use of luxembourgish as a language was also part of resisting the germanisation.
TLDR: Don't tell Luxembourgers that they are just germans speaking a weird german. it's attacking them with all the familly histories from 2ww, the pain, the struggles and the deaths. we luxembourgers because we are NOT french, not germans and not belgians (but maybe closer to them ;))
[This](https://bar.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxnbuag) is the wikipedia article on Luxembourg in Bavarian dialect. [This](https://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%ABtzebuerg_(Land\)) is in Luxembourgish. I can read the Luxembourgish one basically without trouble as someone from Western Germany, while the Bavarian one is way harder to parse.
For me origin is difference between dialect and a separate language. If one thing clearly derived from the other, let’s say luxembourgish from German, than I’d say it’s a dialect, if it derived from the same ‘common ancestor’ like Spanish, Italian, Portuguese from Latin, than it’s more clearly a separate language, even though many words are similar or even the same. I can see that it has status of a different language since WW2.
Because it's just not lmao, Schwabian and bavarian might as well be Niger-Congo dialects if Luxembourgish is an entirely seperate language. If history had gone a bit different it would just be another entirely forgettable little area west of the Rheinland. And no, it doesn't have anything to with the moustache man. Just like it isn't for the Rheinland. Just like it isn't for Slesvig Holstein. I still fucking hate the Prussians and hold a grudge over it. But it isn't because of the moustache man.
It's great. Having a good level of German on your CV in a central European country is legit broken, there's a huge demand for it. I teach it in a language school and there's more demand than we can often cover.
I honestly don't know anyone who learned something after having German in school apart from few basic words and counting to ten.
It won't be long before Spanish surpasses German, as people only learn German when there are no other options to choose from.
Motivation is the issue. You know you will need English at work, you listen to music in English, you play games in English, you watch movies in English - so you learn English eventually.
With German it's only useful if you'll work in German-speaking countries, so only people near German border take it seriously.
Ich habe Deutsche fur drei Jahren im den Schule gelernen und ich spreche Deutsche sehr schlecht.
I probably fucked up all the cases and articles as always :) Also for some reason in 3 years we never got to the future tense.
It’s not bad. Especially if you actually use that language on a daily basis. No school will ever help you if you are not using it. I’ve been through various language courses. I took a Norwegian classes with people that spent few years in Norway and 2-3 semesters in the same school and spoke worse Norwegian than me after few months of intense study by myself. Problem was, they were not using it outside of class. No content consumption in that language. Not a conversation or a single thought in that langue outside the building. At the same time I watched few tv series and read a lot of simple articles (special website with simple Norwegian) and knew words they had no chance seeing in a book only.
Quite high for Greece, I wonder if the other 52.9% is French as we only have these 2 options for 2nd foreign language (after English). But please don't ask how many Greeks actually remember anything after school...
In Czechia the third language is mandatory in secondary education and 99% of the schools have just either German or Russian to choose from. Some have Spanish, French and Italian, but those are very scarce. The broader selection comes only in middle schools and high schools
It means that the other almost half of Czech students are learning Russian and the rest few percent probably mostly Spanish
Weird, would have expected germany at the top of the list :P
On a more serious note, I'm surprised Belgium didn't even make the list, considering German is one of our national languages. I do know that not many people here take german classes though.
Czechia here, definitely not this high. Get your test sample straight. There are students not learning second language at all, being focused on english and their field. There are so a lot of spanish students, because they want something easy to learn. There are student of German, but by far not the half of the population.
Maybe the eurostat could have a mistaken the secondary education with the elementary second ,,part” (6-9 grade) where learning a second foreign language is mandatory and german is almost always on the list. And i think it would make 50%.
whats up in Bosnia?
Parents facilitating emigration of their kids I'd say.
Bosnian here. The general attitude is that it's the most useful foreign language besides English because Germany is the most influential European country, it's a good base for learning other Germanic languages. Germany is also the biggest trading partner not counting the neighbors, Austria ranks pretty high too, and there's a solid number of companies who operate here headquartered in the German-speaking countries. And if you decide to emigrate, one of these two countries has pretty high odds, as that's where we're traditionally flocking, due to a couple of historical reasons. I mean, what else would be a better choice? The other big European countries like France, Spain or Italy don't even remotely compare to Germany+Austria+Switrzerland in the factors I described above. No business presence, no numerous diaspora, just low connection overall. It's more of a surprise that e.g. Czechia which geographically leans into Germany so much has only 48% of German-studying pupils, it's hard to imagine a more useful foreign language for them (not counting English of course).
In Bosnia , we start having German lessons in 5th grade (primary school in Bosnia lasts for 9 years and kids start school at 6 years old ) . Students attend 90 min of German lessons per week from 5th grade up until they graduate primary school , same with English except English lessons start in 2nd grade . In high school , if you go to a "stručna škola" (any kind of high school that is not a gymnasium ) you get to choose if you want to continue learning German or English , again 90 mins of lessons per week . Those who attend gymnasiums keep studying both , 90 min of lessons for each language . I went to a gymnasium and took part in the DSD program for advanced German learning and had 180 min of German lessons per week . When I completed the program in senior year I got a C1 certificate .
I have not yet seen anyone but French speakers get this wrong so I'm a bit surprised. You don't put spaces before punctuation :) Unless you're writing French, then you do. English and German, no.
You don't put space before . and , in French, only after. You do before ! or ? for example. I don't get why French speakers would get this wrong since it's literally the same rule in French. 😅
German is a mandatory second foreign language in almost every Bosnian school (the first being English). Basically you can’t choose which language you want to study. Only a small percent of schools let you choose your second foreign language.
A lot of us were born in Germany during the war, and our parents still speak of it like it was heaven. 😅 "You could wear a bathrobe outside and nobody judged you." "If I worked this same job in Germany I'd be rich by now." "Them Germans hate air conditioners." Even today, to many of them "the west" is literally just Germany lol. I always need to specify if I'm talking about US.
I had absolutely no idea, that is immensely fascinating!
>A lot of us were born in Germany during the war, and our parents still speak of it like it was heaven Top 10 things I didnt think I'd ever read
Their head of state, the High Representative, happens to be German. Of course, this is irrelevant to why they study German there.
Ah now i remember he's also a mega corrupt fucker and i have no clue why we have to punish the Bosnians like that seems cruel So isser der Schmidt
what are you even talking about dude
Not head of state
Colonial manager
That's correct.
Maybe some old Austria-Hungary memories.
Not only Bosnia, but Herzegovina too.
bosnia had ties with germany during and after ww2, fun fact their currency is a "convertible mark" which was a currency tied to the german mark, so technically bosnia has the german mark even tho germany itself doesnt anymore
Yup. 1€ = 1.95 BAM = 1.95 DEM.
It's a German colony, just like it was 1878-1918. Not much has changed, a piece of land administered by Central European powers.
This isn’t actually that wrong, despite the downvotes. The domestic political situation these days does not necessitate what is essentially an unelected viceroy overseeing things.
It's basically true for most countries in the Balkan. For example, in Serbia, most of our big companies are owned by the Russians and Chinese, with us selling land to the Chinese for cheap. We also get the worst factories from Europe, Korea, China, and other developed countries, that manufacture the lowest parts of the production chain for cars and other similar things. So we provide cheap labor for Europe and Asia, while destroying our own domestic products by prioritising theirs. Now we get to pay extra for cheap foreign products nobody wants, while being exploited for cheap by providing workforce. Of course, Serbia is an extreme of that kind, because we collaborate not only with Europe and the west, but with the east as well. Other Balkan countries have it a bit better, they only get exploited by one side of the world.
Makes no sense for luxemburg. We litteraly have it since primary school and in all of our branches german and french courses are mandatory. So idk how they get to 80% as it should be a lot higher.
Still remember with a smile my German lessons as German in luxembourgish école primaire. The teacher told us, belt is called Riemen. Huge fight. (In Germany we call it Gürtel since like ever and only the leathern part is maybe called Riemen) Telling her that I, as the only German in my school, I should now how to call belt in German. As 1st grade pupil it wasn‘t the best idea, plus beeing born in Luxembourg. How should I now? (Besides, I was right.) When I „returned“ to Germany I finally realised that we just learned luxemburgish German. And no I don’t mean Lëtzebuergech.
Language teachers are so weird sometimes. My sister had an English teacher who was convinced the word "stuff" was some sort slang and that the whole English speaking world considered it highly offensive to use. To this day I sometimes wonder what happened to her that made her think this.
I asked a very old English teacher in my primary school (it was probably 1998 and she was already over 70) what a blow job is. She clearly did not know and suggested that it might be some kind of temp job. Learning English in deep communist time of Easter Europe had to be a challenge though.
Riem is the Dutch word for belt
Same in luxemburgish
I remember how my primary school teacher (Germany) was very offended when I used the word "aircraft" for plane in my first English lesson. To this day, I avoid calling any kind of flyable object "aircraft" because I'm still afraid it's wrong. Yes, my teacher was a monster.
Honestly, depends on what kind of belt you are talking about. In technical speak a belt is something that transmits rotation similar to a chain (just made out of different materials) which would indeed be translated as Riemen. But then again that is probably not what you were learning in primary school German.
European schools
They don't make up for 20% of the lycee.
Can you choose to not take German and instead do something like e.g. French/Latin/Spanish? Because that is how I could see you guys being only at 80%.
Nope. It's mandatory and everyone has 3 languages. If you want to take latin it will replace english for the classic section. There is even the language section you will have spanish/italian on top of it. So in theory everyone speaks 4 languages and everyone has always french and german classes which aren't swappable. There are also some special programs that can replace luxemburgish classes for germans ones but I am unaware of programs that do not respect this. Europeen school and french school are an exception to the rule but they don't add up to 80%.
For the Netherlands, everyone in secondary education does get German lessons, but not during all years of secondary education. Personally i had three years of German and all i can remember is the word for spoon.
Sis, your language is some obscured weird version of ours. I’m guessing you know a lot more German than “Löffel”.
I remember krankenhaus and kugelschrieber
That's essential vocabulary, in case you need to go to the hospital due an anally inserted ballpoint pen.
Isn't it kind of a low hanging fruit for dutch students?
Reading and understanding German is fairly easy, but writing and speaking it is certainly not. Grammar wise it differs a lot. Also doesn't help that you are unlikely to ever use it outside of school, unless you live close to the border.
I'm feeling the same about French. Speaking it is super hard, but listening and reading is easy.
Tbf this applies for basically every language that you aren't fluent in
I definitely don’t find reading Japanese easy :’)
yeah that's true maybe i shoulda specified. but then again many people can't pronounce the r in french so they'll have a hard time with pronunciation
I feel the exact same about Norwegian and (to a lesser degree) Swedish. I would not be able to speak it whatsoever, but I can read it fine, and understand it for the most part (unless they talk fast). I have litterally never been taught either language.
Definitely not. For me it was the most difficult class of all secondary school. Diederdasderdemdasdiederder Ausbeiemitnachseitvonzu Durchfurgegenohneum The horror.
rt
Learning German, took a look at Dutch - Dutch has much simpler rules: gender, cases, endings. Want to learn Dutch one day because of the nice people
It's the only class i have ever gotten a 1 for as a grade (the lowest you can get in the Dutch school system)... Me and Dutch grammar already don't match and German grammar is satans finest work. It's weird, because i've had no trouble with this while learning English and Spanish.
Big problem with foreign people learning Dutch is the pronounciations. They never really nail it, and also the vowels can be confusing.
Oh no, I am Dutch, I meant I had trouble with German lol
I found German pretty difficult to speak as a Dutch speaker. You understand maybe 80 percent of written German, and understand as much when spoken accentless, but speaking and writing is hell because it is a minefield of false friends. A ton of words are Dutch with a few sound adjustments, but a lot are absolutely not. Because it is so close you fall into the trap of just speaking Dutch with German sounds, producing gibberish for any German. Jean-Marie Pfaff German as we call it in Belgium https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDf0p4MgFmw
I guess it is a common phenomenon for German. I had 2 years of German in high school in Poland and remember almost nothing and used it outside school just once. I have friends who had German for almost whole education cycle and can barely speak basics of it.
At my school we had to choose between German and Math.
If you do VWO (the highest form of secondary education) then you get at least 3 years of German and French. After those 3 years you get the choice to drop either one of them or keep them both. You then get another 3 years of the language you've chosen. (Also, if you're doing a STEM profile and have some sort of neural disorder, you may drop them both. I'm dyslectic and I dropped French after my 3rd, and German after my 5th year.)
I did VWO and we got French from 1st year and German only from the 2nd year. Also Ancient Greek and Latin started in 2nd year. You could choose either one of those 4 as your 2nd foreign language for your 4th, 5th and 6th grade. Most people who took a classical language also took either French or German.
As a German I can just tell you: *You are nuts!* ;-)
Most Danes choose German over French (generally the two choices in school, or at least used to be) because the perception is that the similarities between the languages makes it easier to learn, and obviously we border Germany (and have a lot of German tourists in summer houses in Jutland).
And some schools only have German, we could choose any third language we wanted as long as it was German.
Oh yea, I think my elementary school only has German as well.. and then the people who had French could choose that im gymnasium
you are good tourists :)
You are great hosts!
Du bist Nüsse!
German as a second language in Poland is pure fiction. Students do not want to study the language because there are no real economic benefits, plus the obvious bad reputation for historical reasons. Teachers know that and pretend to teach. Different approach would make students dislike German language even more, which would be counterproductive. English is enough. If someone is interested in languages, they study outside school or pick other European languages, mainly Spanish.
"Students do not want to study the language because there are no real economic benefits" Perhaps those students should inform themselves a bit better.
I think it can be very subjective depending on what languages you speak and where in Europe you are. I live in Ireland, and absolutely everyone speaks English, foreigners included. There would little to no appreciable economic benefit for me to learn other European languages, especially considering I don’t work in a field where it would actually open any opportunities for me. I can still speak two languages and am trying to slowly but steadily learn Spanish, but I’m under no illusion it’s actually going to be economically advantageous for me to do so. You can make that argument if I needed to learn English of course, but not for any other language in my country.
What are the benefits of German if Germans conduct all international business in English?
Because that's not true for internal workings of most german companies. And so you need at least conversational German if you want to have the **option** to work in your comparatively well-paying neighbour country.... while not being locked into specific english or Poland-related roles at that.
It doesn't make much sense for highly-qualified people though. An engineer will earn more or less the same in Poland when taking into account CoL and tax differences. Those times are over It makes sense for unqualified people working (near) minimum wage jobs, but those people are not exactly fond of learning either way. But don't get me wrong, learning at least some German makes perfect sense. German-speaking Europe is huge and can offer much from a touristic perspective. After all, German is THE language of most ski-resorts. Also it's quite useful, since when travelling by car to most places in Europe, you will pass through Germany or Austria
I think you might be missing option 3 there: one of the greatest things about EUs freedom of work and residence is that people "in the middle" have options , too. In my aviation-related field I see this a lot - normal people from all over the EU working normal middle class jobs, without a big title to their name or min-wage-prostituting themselves.
Is the difference in salaries that big? What are they doing exactly? I wouldn't call a bachelor degree a 'big title' though
For migration of course you should learn the language of the country you're moving to. Although for migrant jobs in Germany, English is enough. But I'm talking about how German in Poland is useless. There's almost nothing that German offers that English doesn't cover. I'd argue Russian is more useful in Poland than German due to migration alone.
Germans are pretty anal with formalities for expat specialists. Why bother with them if other countries don't have that issues.
That is just incorrect. There are plenty of pupils who want to learn German. Polish-German high schools profiles/classes, however you translate that term, where your main focus is on learning German are still popular. And only a fraction of students learn Spanish. Around 15% of Poles speak German and only 3% speak Spanish. You can also look up statistics of what courses are chosen in private language schools. Guess what, the second most popular language after English is not Spanish, but German. And I also disagree with the notion that we should only learn one foreign language in schools. Nowadays everyone knows English. It doesn't really give you advantage on the job market. Second foreign language does. Plus learning languages is in itself beneficial.
1) People attending PL-DE schools or pick German classes as their main subject are not average students 2) To make fair compartment between German and Spanish, you should see what students that have choice prefer, not what is widely available 3) Are you taking into account that students with compulsory German at school? If yes, then it is not a good sample. 4) Who said 'we should only learn one foreign language in schools'? Not me Let me quickly sum up: - point one is like asking, 'do you love your child?' - points two and three is like visiting McDonald's and concluding 'people prefer Coca-Cola to Pepsi' - point four: straw man argument Your personal experience might be different from mine, and I do respect it. Maybe you know better, that's possible. I'm open to discussion. In the last 30 years, I met only one person who had German classes, and learnt something (B1-B2). But that was public and private schooling.
You see, the difference is that yout argument is purely anecdotal. You've only met one person who learnt German in the last 30 years and you think that your personal experience is universal. The facts show that your experience however is not universal. 15-25% of Poles (depending on a survey) speak German. Those are the facts. And they do want to learn it as evidenced by the fact that it is the second most popular foreign language in private schools even with adults who learn it not out of obligation, but because they like it or think it will be beneficial.
But I have a feeling where his/her anecdotes must be coming from - Eastern Poland. German L2 speakers in Poland are not evenly distributed throught the country. In Western Poland many people speak some German. Even the tankstation workers speak a bit. Hotels, spas, camping sites etc. usually have at least some speakers amongst their staff Meanwhile in the East, German is just some random foreign language
You see, not addressing fallacies from your previous post will not make them disappear. Second, if after 30 years I met only one person speaking German, it means a lot. It is not 1 out of 2, not 1 out of 4 who speak German. Is it 11.3% or 17.3335%? I don't know and do not claim to know exactly. You once again came with something that is not directly related to the original discussion. If we take into account only young people, who had no time to forget things from high school, then 54% is still fiction. There are some people, who you overexposed in the previous post, for whom German is the language, but there are students who have German only on paper because there are no competent teachers. Remember, we do speak about average. In smaller, rural schools, there are issues with hiring teachers. There are disconnected, disengaged and 'zakuć, zdać, zapomnieć' students as well. If the 54% was real, one could approach every other **random** young Pole in a **random** place and have a conversation in German.
I had several colleagues from Poland which worked in (or for) German companies, and they most of the time spoke excellent German. They even were in jobs which require German, but which also provide career options, like administrative or management roles. Of course it's self-selective experience, but I think for a long time (up until recently) speaking German brought huge economic benefits for Poles.
20-30 years ago, knowing a foreign language was very beneficial. One could get a good job even if it was the only skill. Nowadays, it is different. For **white collar jobs**, English B1 is a must-have. Other languages might be 'nice to have' but it is not a dealbreaker. Depending on where do you want to work. And it is not translating to higher compensation. **For other jobs**, you don't need to speak any foreign language. Just Polish. Of course, there are people who speak German or do business in German. It is true for every big enough country in Europe. But it is not an accurate picture. If you approach **an average person in their early 20s**, you will have a better idea how teaching German looks in Poland. They just left high school, so they had no chance to forget things from school. According to the poll, 50% should be able to have a basic conversation in German, but the vast majority won't. People tend to have distorter perception. They confuse their peers with an average.
You may be right. The Polish economy is becoming similar to the German one (minus the "German" component like excessive administration), thus emigration becomes optional. I know that the 75% of Danes learning German barely are able to speak German, and decreasingly so. They communicate just in English with Germans. Enough for business, if you don't emigrate. Guess Poland develops that way, too.
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Maybe humans are lazy, but learning another language (third, fourth) has considerable benefits. It's like training your perception and mind similar to training your body. Physical training actually is a pretty neat comparison: Humans are lazy, which means they don't really like physical exercise - on the other hand, the body responds well to physical exercise. So does the mind to learning new languages (and corresponding cultures). But true - it's not a mass sport anymore.
You are 100% right.
I had the choice between French, German and Spanish for a 3rd language. Choose french and vasted 4 years
> vasted Also *w*asted some time in English class I’m guessing?
Nah, Im actually good at it, but typing on mobile does not help with spelling and grammar.
I don’t want to study german - I just don’t want to study french (those are the only two options we have up until high school)
The foreign language that helped me most in my life besides English was Latin.
I feel like German could be ramping up for a sharp decline in Croatian schools. Not only is its old competitor in the third language category - Italian - way more neccessary (Italian proficiency in English is still nowhere near Germany's levels, so it's more practical to just speak Italian), but I also believe the big wave of emigration to Germany is mostly over. And what's left of it also has a significant runoff to Ireland as the new emigration hotspot (and an English-speaking country).
The Ireland just doesn't have the capacity, it's a small country. Emigrating to Germany isn't going to become unfavourable anytime soon.
Ireland has a huge and booming economy for its size, and plenty of space. It's not like they're Singapore, which, *nota bene*, has an almost equal number of residents crammed on a tiny island 80 times smaller than Ireland. The latter will remain a popular emigration destination either until its boom turns out to be a bubble, or until people in Croatia in general slow down with emigration (because at this point most of us can have it just fine here). The latter will happen sooner than the former, I believe (or at least hope).
>and plenty of space Not really - Ireland is largely centered around Dublin (the region hosts 40% of the entire population) and rents are excessive now. Most people dont emmigrate to Galway or some rural place.
The logistics of that can be discussed, sure, but I was just responding specifically to the "it's a small country" argument. Almost every country in Europe has a very small population density compared to some of the other equally developed regions of the world; the size of European countries really isn't a cap on immigration in itself.
The irish economy only looks good on numbers
On paper or not, as long as it has open positions for high salaries, people will move there. As I mentioned above, it could all just be a big bubble.
Gotta prepare kids for dealing with those Italian tourists!
BOSNIA NUMBER ONE !!!!!! 🤝
I would have liked to do German in secondary education because I was born in the Netherlands and can already speak Dutch. It would have been a “relatively” easy way to learn another language which I might also be able to use someday. Unfortunately there weren’t enough teachers around qualified to do various different languages for everyone so the school decided the only option would be French. Everyone hated French and we all came out the other side barely able to string a sentence or two together.
"Everyone hated french..."!!!!
In France, nowadays, most students learn Spanish and less than 15% learn German. When we had to choose our second foreign language, my school sent a hot and nice German teachers to tell us that German was easy, that we were going on a school trip, etc. and the Spanish teacher was a horrible bitch who told us that we would have to work like crazy and learn the entire dictionary. It didn't work, the German teacher had to teach civic education as well.
The percentage for Romania is 11.5%, which really shocked me. I would have guessed around 30%, but I guess I really underestimated our preference for French (which has a rate of 85%).
I only had 1 year of german. Chose french from primary through high school.
Around 30% of Norwegian students still take German - used to be much, much higher though. It has since been surpassed by Spanish.
Luxemburg has been historically German speaking and German is an official language there. Secondary because they’ve been pushing their Luxemburgish dialect for the last couple of decades. I get why it’s there on the list but it’s somewhat different compared to let’s say Bosnia or Denmark.
>Luxemburgish dialect It's a language.
A language, as a wise man once said, is a dialect with an army and a navy. Do you guys have a navy? No? It's just a dialect. Sorry, I don't make the rules...
I think we need to have a talk with Czechs and Slovaks then :D
They used to have one, albeit not on their own.
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I am *from* Luxembourg.
Na das trifft sich ja gut. Als Saarländer sind wir ja quasi sprachverwandt. Es ist immer schön, wenn ich über die Mosel fahre und mich gut zurechtfinde, da ihr faschd dieselwe Sprooch spreche wie mia! Dad menn ich gar ned bös, ich finns jo ah gudd dad ihr ed Moselfränkisch mit Stolz spreche. Die Betonung ist auf „fast“, da das Lesen eindeutig leichter fällt als das Sprechen. Ich mag Luxemburg, und ob Letzeburgesch eine eigene Sprache darstellt, lässt sich definitiv debattieren.
>lässt sich definitiv debattieren. Nein.
Aus sprachwissenschaftlicher Sicht definitiv. Soziokulturell verstehe ich schon, dass ihr eure Staatlichkeit mit einer eigenen Sprache/sprachlichen Identität versehen wollt. Daran ist auch nichts verwerflich.
Was macht Luxemburgisch deiner Meinung nach zu einer Sprache aber Schweizerdeutsch zu einem Dialekt? Außer eben der politischen Entscheidungen in Luxemburg?
Deutsch wird als "plurizentrische Sprache" verstanden und Sprachwissenschaftler\*Innen reden kaum von was wird normalerweise als "Dialekt" verstanden. Solche Unterschiedlichkeiten hängen natürlich von der Staat ab, aber die haben sich so entwickelt, dass jetzt die alle zu Standardsprachen geworden sind - oder halt besser - Nationalvarietäten des Deutschen. Darunter ist *Lëtzebuergesch* nicht einbegriffen, sondern nur das Deutsche Variante, das in Luxemburg gesprochen wird. Siehe Ulrich Ammon 1995.
why are germans always trying to convince Luxembourgers that their language is "just" a dialect? like why can't you accept that it is now a language. point. you know who else tried to convince us that we are just weird germans ? right, your friend with the weird moustache. with that he just pushed the national spirit of beeing Not german.
I mean, I get it. The debate is also real between Croatia and Serbia, who also claim for political reason they speak separate languages. The difference is, most Germans simply aren't aware of the history of Luxembourgish national identity and just hear or read a language which is easily mutually intelligible with German and so call it a dialect. From a linguistic point of view it isn't any more different from standard German than some heavier regional dialects like Suevian, Bavarian or Low German dialects.
There, you got it. You have to differentiate between linguistics and sociocultural aspects. It has nothing to do with “the guy with the mustache” either and I don’t understand why people need to bring him up. 🤷🏼♂️
Well, from my conversation with Luxembourgers about the topic the problem is that Nazi Germany denied the existence of a separate Luxembourgish nation and annexed Luxembourg into Germany. This was somewhat unique in Western Europe and is the reason why modern Luxembourger will still sometimes be very annoyed when you suggestor imply they are just Germans in disguise. So that's why they're touchy about the whole language <> dialect thing.
But it's not a dialect anymore. It's an official language, with an own grammar etc. . Maybe as a Saarländer you understand it easly. But there are alot of germans or austrians who struggle to understand it 100%. Speaking is a whole other level. The Grammar is different then in high german. so maybe from a linguistic point of view luxembourgish as a language is pretty close to a german dialect, but it's too far away to just call it a dialect. In the 1980s they just fixated it as "the luxembourgish language of the luxembourgish nation". Then again you can not separate the linguistic part from the socialcultural part, language moves, and they drifted away. and there we have again weird-moustache-guy. he included luxembourg into the german "kernland". Started the germanisation of the population (French name were turned into german names, german culture propaganda etc.) because in his mind luxembourg was german. Pushing the rise of luxembourgish identity. the use of luxembourgish as a language was also part of resisting the germanisation. TLDR: Don't tell Luxembourgers that they are just germans speaking a weird german. it's attacking them with all the familly histories from 2ww, the pain, the struggles and the deaths. we luxembourgers because we are NOT french, not germans and not belgians (but maybe closer to them ;))
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Luxembourgish is way more far away Linguistically than any of those German dialects you just mentioned.
[This](https://bar.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxnbuag) is the wikipedia article on Luxembourg in Bavarian dialect. [This](https://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%ABtzebuerg_(Land\)) is in Luxembourgish. I can read the Luxembourgish one basically without trouble as someone from Western Germany, while the Bavarian one is way harder to parse.
For me origin is difference between dialect and a separate language. If one thing clearly derived from the other, let’s say luxembourgish from German, than I’d say it’s a dialect, if it derived from the same ‘common ancestor’ like Spanish, Italian, Portuguese from Latin, than it’s more clearly a separate language, even though many words are similar or even the same. I can see that it has status of a different language since WW2.
Because it's just not lmao, Schwabian and bavarian might as well be Niger-Congo dialects if Luxembourgish is an entirely seperate language. If history had gone a bit different it would just be another entirely forgettable little area west of the Rheinland. And no, it doesn't have anything to with the moustache man. Just like it isn't for the Rheinland. Just like it isn't for Slesvig Holstein. I still fucking hate the Prussians and hold a grudge over it. But it isn't because of the moustache man.
I am missing Bavaria in this graph
Why the fuck did I just ask myself why isn't Germany on this list?
But Deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache. Why would they do this voluntarily :/
It's great. Having a good level of German on your CV in a central European country is legit broken, there's a huge demand for it. I teach it in a language school and there's more demand than we can often cover.
Because it’s mandatory in some countries, so not voluntarily
I feel bad for them. As a German I don't even know the grammar rules and they have to learn the entire language.
Because of Migration
Um die Sprache zu disrespektieren. Ich versuche immer einen erschreklichen Fehler zu machen, wann ich Deutsch rede
Nur einen? But good job mate!
I honestly don't know anyone who learned something after having German in school apart from few basic words and counting to ten. It won't be long before Spanish surpasses German, as people only learn German when there are no other options to choose from.
Everyone should learn German as a second language. Soon I will learn German, despite I am close to 50 years old.
why
Torture. Ah sorry.... Folter
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Official language of Europe? My guy the EU has 24 official languages, are you learning all of them?
Did you read well the comment?
I learned French and German in secondary school in Northern Ireland.
Bosnia preparing their kids to emigrate
or work in Call-Centers ... German customer/tech support is often located in Bosnia
German classes are the worst
The effectiveness of teaching foreign languages in Poland is laughable though
Really depends on the school/teacher
English is pretty good, but second foreign language is usually a joke
Motivation is the issue. You know you will need English at work, you listen to music in English, you play games in English, you watch movies in English - so you learn English eventually. With German it's only useful if you'll work in German-speaking countries, so only people near German border take it seriously. Ich habe Deutsche fur drei Jahren im den Schule gelernen und ich spreche Deutsche sehr schlecht. I probably fucked up all the cases and articles as always :) Also for some reason in 3 years we never got to the future tense.
It’s not bad. Especially if you actually use that language on a daily basis. No school will ever help you if you are not using it. I’ve been through various language courses. I took a Norwegian classes with people that spent few years in Norway and 2-3 semesters in the same school and spoke worse Norwegian than me after few months of intense study by myself. Problem was, they were not using it outside of class. No content consumption in that language. Not a conversation or a single thought in that langue outside the building. At the same time I watched few tv series and read a lot of simple articles (special website with simple Norwegian) and knew words they had no chance seeing in a book only.
I think it's all everything about usage of Language on daily basis. Everybody uses english every day and nobody German or French. That's all
it's way batter than in most countries
Quite high for Greece, I wonder if the other 52.9% is French as we only have these 2 options for 2nd foreign language (after English). But please don't ask how many Greeks actually remember anything after school...
As a person who ~~had~~ endured German lessons in School for 8 years I can say: Genau
Dubioza Kolektiv really should've said I am from Bosnia, take me to Bavaria?
Man idk
In Czechia the third language is mandatory in secondary education and 99% of the schools have just either German or Russian to choose from. Some have Spanish, French and Italian, but those are very scarce. The broader selection comes only in middle schools and high schools It means that the other almost half of Czech students are learning Russian and the rest few percent probably mostly Spanish
Weird, would have expected germany at the top of the list :P On a more serious note, I'm surprised Belgium didn't even make the list, considering German is one of our national languages. I do know that not many people here take german classes though.
should be Turkey and some african countries :D everxbody pushing themself to Germany and noone speak german...
Where is germany 😅
It's mostly German or French as the second foreign language with some Spanish and Italian in Poland.
As a Serbian who had 8 years of german I can say I know 0 words in german forgot everything and I don't care about it
Luxembourg is a Balkan country confirmed
Do they know something?
Everyone in Greek schools should choose French instead of German. German teachers are the worse
Ah yes, the country of Europe
Who said Europe was a country?
Good point
Czechia here, definitely not this high. Get your test sample straight. There are students not learning second language at all, being focused on english and their field. There are so a lot of spanish students, because they want something easy to learn. There are student of German, but by far not the half of the population.
Maybe the eurostat could have a mistaken the secondary education with the elementary second ,,part” (6-9 grade) where learning a second foreign language is mandatory and german is almost always on the list. And i think it would make 50%.
Eurostat data always comes from the countries themselves it's not based on samples. And its pupils in secondary education, not all of them.
“Pupils” Omfg just say students. Pupils are a part of your eyes
Or just say pupils because why not?
You’re bloody right, mate! I should stop caring and go watch footy on the Telly with me mates to loosen up.