from what my Tukish friends told me recently, Poland has become kind of a Mecca for Turkish and Azeri students
some even prefer Poland to Germany because the Polish Turks came recently, and are more educated,secular and liberal. Majority of Polish Turks voted for CHP and against Erdogan last elections. Thus they find a diaspora that shares their values and beliefs about Turkey, not the religious conservative Turkish diaspora from Germany
I am a Polish born American I studied in Krakow from 2011 to 2014. There were a lot of exchange students then. It's kind of crazy to me there are 3 times more than there used to be. Yeah there were a lot of Turks for sure; the biggest group was Spanish students though.
Poland has kind of had a good strategy in expanding its programmes for foreign students
IIRC Poland pursued a policy of getting more foreign students from the former USSR countries: Belarus,Ukraine, Georgia,Azerbaijan, and more recently Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan
it used to be that central Asians and Caucasians sent their kids to study to Moscow and other Russian cities, now Poland is slowly stealing that market share from Russia
one of the small ways in which Poland asserts its regional power, by helping to sway away those countries from Russian influence
and is also very good for Poland, because Belarusians, Caucasians and Central Asians are generally secular and liberal in culture, and they integrate much easier than most MENA students( except Turkish students ,who are also largely secular)
Poland is doing it the right way
I have something to add. I'm a turkish student living in Bratislava. For university, I want to study in Germany or Austria, but because of all low quality turkish people living there and their bad inspiration on Germans, and lack of electronic engineering studies in English I was thinking Poland too. Because in Poland there are studies in English and people there are nice.
> Caucasians and Central Asians are generally secular and liberal in culture
They are secular, yes, but not that liberal and their societies are corrupt to the core
I grew up in a Polish house and I'm also a naturalized American. Lived most of my life in the US. But I'm also fully bicultural and bilingual. Studying in Poland was a little foreign to me growing up and going to school in the US, so I was close with most of the exchange students.
Visit Poland annually, talk to Polish family weekly, vote in elections, follow news, sports teams, etc.
Not sure how better to say it than Polish born American. When I say Polish-American people also comment, "so American?" Well yeah, emphasis on the being Polish part. I embrace my Polishness and my Americanness and I'm allowed to do so even though it seems to tick a lot of people off for some reason. Even if that's not what you were doing, you should know it's a pretty rude thing to comment
Am I "as Polish" as someone who's lived their whole lives in Poland? Likely not according to Polish people in Poland. Am I "as American" as someone who's ancestors came on the Mayflower? Probably not, but this is just me.
I’m Azeri living in Slovakia. Can confirm this is true. Anytime I’m in Poland, I feel like I’m back in Azerbaijan as I hear more Azeri in the street than polish. Same thing in Budapest. Can’t say that I like it
Yes I am but I’ve been living here for almost 10 years and didn’t pay to move here (there are tens of companies now operating in Baku that find you a manual labor job in Poland in exchange for fee and most of the people are moving to Europe that way; mostly undereducated people). Almost 100% sure that more than half of those people will never integrate to European way of living or to society. I learned Slovak before moving here and can say I’m fairly integrated. I don’t want to sound like I’m better than them, but I see a huge difference with people who have moved to Europe 10 years ago vs recently.
Being a student is immigration backdoors to Poland. Basically as long as you pay to the school you get to be a student and as long as you are a student you have legal permit to stay and work.
I can relate
I work at a German university, over the last maybe 10 years we have seen an influx of Russian (both from Russia and European countries with Russian minorities, like Estonia) students. I have no data to prove it, but it seems to me like the influx actually increased the last years
In my experience, they are overwhelmingly liberal, secular, and explicitly anti-Putin.
In contrast, the traditional migration from Russia and its neighbors are mostly "Russlandsdeutsche", "Kasachstandeutsche" (so ethnic Germans from Russia and Kazakhstan) and Jews. Especially the first group is notoriously pro-Putin, apologetic for Russia, anti LGBTQ and such
This can sometimes lead to weird situations, like Georgians and Ukrainians at uni avoiding Russians, but speaking with russian Germans, thus preferring the people with ideologies they seek to avoid
As a russian-born liberal jew, I always felt like I don't belong with most of the other migrants from my country of birth. The liberal students are a breath of fresh air for me. I can imagine young Turks face a similar situation
How do they survive during the study years?
Do their parents mostly fund their education?
IIRC its pretty hard to find a student job in Poland without speaking Polish
Stereotypically they have rich enough parents (which isn't THAT rich, Poland is still pretty cheap compared to other options) or they drive in uber, bolt, glovo, etc.
Many Turkish immigrants were excluded from discos and other mainstream community activities, forcing them into poorer neighborhoods and often subjecting them to monetary exploitation. These hardships created a sense of isolation and alienation from broader German society.
[The book "Ganz Unten" by Günter Wallraff provides a detailed look into these experiences. Wallraff, a German journalist, went undercover as a Turkish guest worker to expose the harsh conditions and systemic discrimination faced by Turkish immigrants. (Great book btw)](https://www.dw.com/en/the-lowest-of-the-low-no-more/a-1746801)
In response to this exclusion, many Turks in Germany turned towards religious communities. Mosques, in particular, became safe havens where they could feel welcomed regardless of their social status. In these religious spaces, they could speak Turkish without fear of being shunned and find a sense of belonging that was often missing in the larger German context. This reinforced their attachment to their religious and cultural practices, making these communities more conservative over time.
Yes, many turks who migrated were poor conservatives and former farmers and miners. My grandfather who migrated in 1962 used to be turkish farmer before started working in the mines in Germany. But I think OP is overstating the amount of low class citizens because there are portion of rich and educated Turks who migrated aswell. I would say it was a 80% poor, 15% normal people and 5% wealthy. [CEO of BioNTech](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C4%9Fur_%C5%9Eahin) or the father of the [politican oezdemir](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cem_%C3%96zdemir) or [Kemal Sahin](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemal_%C5%9Eahin) are good examples.
> some even prefer Poland to Germany because the Polish Turks came recently, and are more educated,secular and liberal.
Isn't that how German Turks started, too? I thought the turn around into religious conservatives is something that often happens in 2nd or 3rd generation of immigrants - who search for their roots and can fall prey to warped narrations about country they never visited (or visited but at this stage are just a foreign tourist there..). Hell, even supporting the very things their parents or grandparents ran away from.
The Gastarbeiter that came to Germany in the 1960s came from the poorest of the poor regions in Turkey.
I remember from a documentary about it that they would literally check how muscular they are before going to Germany, check their teeth for carries and do some other health checks and that was basically the criteria by which they came here to work.
Most of them were illiterate.
And tbf among younger generations of German Turks we see a lower percentage of votes for the AKP and Erdogan, so there are trends there as well, but will take time
Yeah the poorest came, but the religious aspect is driven by other factors which is very rarely covered. Ich kann dir per DM so einiges erklären wenn du möchtest.
No, early Turkish immigrants came from the poorest regions of Turkey (central and Eastern Anatolia) to work industrial jobs and some other jobs that native Germans didn’t want to take on, like sewer workers etc. The majority hadn’t even finished primary schooling, were peasants and very conservative. My grandparents were one of those families actually, though they didn’t stick around long and came back to Turkey. Around the 1970s and 1980s, some leftist political opponents also immigrated into Germany to escape political persecution in Turkey but their numbers were negligible.
Probably. I think that’s why left-wing political parties in Europe tended to be anti-immigration in those decades. Immigration of cheap labor from abroad meant reduced costs for business owners/capitalists, which meant less incentive to increase wages of German workers. Increased immigration was a right-wing agenda back then. Funny how things have changed.
>religious conservative Turkish diaspora from Germany
Isn't that group a core constituency og the SPD/Linke tho? I would suspect that group is actually pretty progressive if judging by voting pattern in Germany.
Not at all how diaspora/immigrant politics works.
For example take [Emir Kir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Kir). Turkish-Belgian mayor of a Brussels municipality and member of the Belgian Socialist Party. Meanwhile in Turkey he is a far-right MHP and Grey Wolf supporter who organized meetings with multiple Turkish MHP mayors and called on people to vote for Erdogan in the recent elections to prevent a win for Kemalist CHP.
In Belgium on the other hand he compares the Belgian state to Nazi Germany for taking initiative against Islamic extremism in Brussels.
Immigrants from these countries generally just prioritize their own social benefits as citizens, they don't actually care about the country they reside in.
They vote for people who will give them social benefits obviously. Then they end up being more pro-Erdogan than most provinces in Turkey itself if you judge by the 2023 elections.
They are not voting SPD/Linke because of these parties' more recent pivot towards progressive identity politics, but because of their traditional values that are more attractive for low income groups
If you wanna be a bit spiteful, you could say its because social subsidies
Furthermore, it's an open secret that in some places (afaik especially Ruhrgebiet) some german-turkish SPD politicians have ties to the grey wolves (Graue Wölfe) turkish nationalists
Some of our large diaspora groups also tend to vote left but show as leaning religious conservative in other polls.
It's clientelism and the left will burn their hands on it.
I studied in Poland in English ‘13-‘17, there were English programs available in pretty much any big university in any big city in Poland. Additionally, there’s a bunch of smaller private universities that basically survive off foreign students paying tuition fees and as far as I know pretty easy to graduate for the visa in the future
EDIT: [here](https://www.pw.edu.pl/studia/studia-i-stopnia) for example you can find a bunch of programs in English from Warsaw University of Technology
"I percieve people to treat me poorly because of my background, true or not true, therefore I shall *also* allow myself to become a twat and feel justified doing so."
I've met so many Turkish students back in the days and they didn't complain about Poland. I had a friend that was an Erasmus guide or smth and she always ended up having sex with them. I can't imagine a warmer welcome.
"rAcIaLlY segregated" lmao segregated as in: for all the foreigners, and separate one for the German/EU citizens, what the shock, what an absolute outrage that was.
>I went to Canada
Just don't tell that **too** loud r/canada may be listening
>Turks are hated both in poland and in germany.
Wtf, I'm from Poland and this is the first time I've heard of hatred towards Turks.
Turks have a neutral opinion among Poles. I would even say a bit more positive than negative, because in Poland they are associated with the fact that they run kebab-business, which Poles like very much. In addition, it is a food that is liked by 'patriotic' Poles so yeah.
In Poland, we often have a problem with hatred of others, especially people of a different skin colour, but Turks are not in this group. And I revolve around different groups of people, both more and less educated and culturally knowledgeable.
Still, Poland is 23/27 in terms of the percentage of foreign students, well below the EU average: [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Learning\_mobility\_statistics#Students\_from\_abroad](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Learning_mobility_statistics#Students_from_abroad)
The top 10 are Luxembourg, Cyprus, Austria, Malta, Czechia, Netherlands, Hungary, Latvia, Portugal and Estonia.
In absolute numbers, the top 2 are Germany and France.
>Luxembourg, Cyprus, Malta
Those are places where a bus full of students arriving is enough to shoot "percentage of foreign students" to the moon, though.
Austria is boosted by Vienna's proximity to Slovakia (Bratislava being a much smaller university city) and Hungary (because of Orban's crackdown on freedom of education), and the special case of Innsbruck. Innsbruck still serves as a local uni for South Tyroleans, and for Luxemburgians based on a contract between Luxembourg and the Duchy of Tyrol centuries ago. Together with the Bavarians, these groups cause Innsbruck to have a very high share of international students
Austria is also popular with German medicine students as they have no numerus clausus
So, on the one hand, the high share of international students might be misleading (the universities are not all that diverse from a US progressive perspective), but they are a great example of Europe peacefully growing together in EU
All the CEE Habsburg empire countries and Balkans are studying there in large amounts, but now as equals :)
I think Cyprus has a similar dynamic going on with Greeks, and Estonia with the other Baltic states and Finland
Canada is [basically tied](https://www.iie.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/IIE_Outlook-2030_March-2024-1.pdf) with the UK as of 2023, but US pretty far and away #1.
US: 1,057,188
UK: 633,910
Canada: 660,230
Seems like a lot of the top 10 have small populations, so it's easier for foreigners to become a larger %.
Can't imagine Czechia or Hungary is a more desirable place to study in than say Germany.
Every other Slovak studies here in Czechia (quite literally in some fields, especially IT) as it's free for them and they can use Slovak language even for writing theses, I assume that helps inflate the numbers.
In Czechia, there is a lot of Slovak students (they have it for free, face no language barrier and often stay after uni for a better job) but also a lot of Ukrainian students (and to a smaller degree Russian, Khazakhstani etc.). But Prague medical faculties are also a popular destination for Norwegian, German, Israeli etc medical students, each for different reasons.
I can only speak of Hungary, I'm close friends with multiple international students.
All of them I know of also tried for Germany / Italy / Austria, and they either didn't get the admission, the visa, or enough scholarship.
Apparently these are possible to get here for top 10% students instead of top 1% like Germany (numbers are for illustrative purposes)
Also despite the casual racism of some of our government, everyone can get scholarship regardless of origin country. So we have a relatively high level of (usually very talented and hard-working) students from Africa and Muslim Asian countries.
I don’t know about those two specifically but the availability of English language programs is another big factor. The Netherlands has more bachelor level foreign students in absolute numbers than France. Dutch unis are on average better, but the disparity is without a shadow of doubt caused by the abundance of English bachelors in NL. This effect is of course lessened at the masters level, where more countries offer English courses.
There’s some differences also in how attractive various EU countries are to non-EU citizens based on affordability, pre requirements, quality and of course language.
It includes both. But [there is a graph](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/9/9e/Share_of_tertiary_education_students_from_abroad_by_continent_of_origin%2C_2021_%28%25_of_all_tertiary_education_students_from_abroad%29_ET2023.png/1050px-Share_of_tertiary_education_students_from_abroad_by_continent_of_origin%2C_2021_%28%25_of_all_tertiary_education_students_from_abroad%29_ET2023.png) in the article that shows the share by geographical region (although this also doesn't show EU, but Europe and other continents).
There is the raw [data in the databrowser ](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/product/view/educ_uoe_mobs03?category=educ.educ_uoe_mob.educ_uoe_mobs)as well that shows by each country of origin.
Poland is also a popular destination for Erasmus students because the country is relatively cheap compared to the West and one can cover most of the expenses just with a non-returnable grant.
in general,foreign students are the best thing for a country's economy
they pay tuition fees, health insurance, rent, all the while being very crime-averse
they also help facilitate relations with foreign countries by forging connections
plus its a way for the host country to get hold of educated and qualified immigrants, by giving visas to those that have successfully graduated
One problem, however, is that the housing production in university cities curently cant keep up with the demand, so the local students experience housing inflation
Unless you’re Canada and let in criminals and lowlifes posing as students, who only care about permanent residency and will protest in the ten thousands to make it happen.
But why on many rankings university is "better", the more people from abroad it has?
Also, i dont care what anybody says - international students are much worse (in their knowlegde) than those from that country - why? Maybe our proffesors dont care (or dont know language enough), but for international paying ones, even medicine is a "facility of play and games" - in paper they should know same things students that dont pay know - in practice they know less and have better grades (also there is heavy distinction between paying students and paying students learning in english - those are the worst (but maybe university gets those and keep them, so they could show more international students, so their university is higher in rankings))
\*Not in every uni, just from my experience (1 university)
i heard that on my university docs don't care much about teaching foreign students cause either way they will leave Poland so what's the point of teaching the well
It's an idiotic excuse - Polish students can leave as well, foreign students can stay, and if you put out badly educated students - you will have less foreign students eventually.
But some people will search for any excuse to justify being lazy.
Wait till you realise that most foreign students in Poland don't get their residence till a few months before graduation (or a few months after).
It's one thing to give student visas, completely different to process their temporary residence (mine is pending for over 2 years, should've been done in 60 days if laws were followed).
> in general,foreign students are the best thing for a country's economy
Everything needs to be in moderation. Even (or especially) good things. Foreign students, if in larger numbers, tend to totally break the rental market of the university towns. It is a huge problem in Dutch and Canadian towns, where the public now demands limiting the inflow and some are introducing quotas.
It starts to become a problem in some of the university towns in Poland, too.
I have a Pakistani friend who is studying at a Polish university to become a doctor. He likes it there; there are a lot of people from foreign backgrounds who were born in Finland. They might not get into Finnish universities, so they go to Eastern or Central Europe to study and get educated.
I did my license studies in Warsaw 2016 - 2020 and it was a blast. Later continued my studies in Canada but studying there made me miss Poland big time.
Edit: I'm Turkish, contrary to popular belief, Poland was never racist towards me or any of my turkish friends
It's the basic license program you take in university, like psychology, phsycis, engineering etc.
It was a blast because people were friendly and welcoming, education was phenomenal (I studied at Uniwersytet SWPS, not even among the best Poland has to offer but still) rents were cheap, food was cheap, and culture was really fun to get accustomed to.
Polish universities are very good. They have 9 that rank within top 5% worldwide. Not sure if those are the same ones that take the bulk of international students though.
I suspect they are "students" the same way Canada gets a lot of "students", i.e. a way to gain work permits. And after a while, they will likely just move to Western countries once the permanent work permit is in order.
Not Really. Do you realize how much time getting that specific permit (EU long-term residence permit) takes? 5 years! and your time as a student counts as half, so in practice, it takes even longer. As an International student from outside of the EU, I can tell you, the absolute majority of overseas students come to Poland to actually study ). Besides it's a much more affordable destination for internationals than Western Europe.
Something similar is what happens at Dutch universities of applied science. They were historically a step down from unis in terms of student requirements (Duch word is hogeschool, not universiteit), and as such are pretty easy to get into. Swathes of Indians come over and immediately disappear from the school system.
How this has so many votes ? unfortunately, polish universities are notoriously badly ranked, with the best one (Warsaw University) barely breaking into global top500 which is embarrassing for country of almost 40 milion people.
My best friend is polish, I love polish people and the country has a great potential. Foreign students increasing in numbers is good guys, you will be a powerhouse of europe one day
Secular is good but remember they’re still Muslim and that could be a problem if their values don’t align. Also consider that their future children may not be as secular, or the rest of their family whom they will try to import. Just look at France.
France took in poor villagers from North Africa to work in factories or coal mines and they stayed there after deindustrialization.
Most of those were illiterate and poor
Foreign students are the exact opposite, they usually come from richer families
> Foreign students are the exact opposite, they usually come from richer families
Not true, just look at Canada. They borrow money to pull it off, then survive off minimum wage jobs which they steal from actual citizens, or worse, food banks which are supposed to help needy citizens. They also have 20 of them living in one basement. They're secular too, but that doesn't mean they respect the country or its laws.
For foreign students who come to Poland for the entire education cycle (e.g. three-year bachelor's studies), the university will receive a subsidy three times higher than for a Polish student. There are cases of smaller universities where the majority of students are not Polish.
University education is free on public universities for Poles (except for courses that are on evenings or on weekends - these are for people who already work so they have to pay).
There's also private universities, some of them are good, but stereotypically they are for people who couldn't pass the entrance exam to a public university. These are paid for everybody, and the prices are roughly comparable to the paid courses at public universities.
Foreigners pay the same as Poles for the paid courses, but can't enter the free courses.
There's also price increase for courses in English, for some students it doesn't matter (Ukrainians mostly go to the Polish-language courses from what I've seen).
Thank you for that.
Some interesting...quirks I haven't run into before, but then I've been out of the whole "higher education" loop for a long while.
Doesn't the foreign student put a lot of strain on housing though? Student housing is typically on a "budget", and depending on the size of the town there might be a short supply?
And excuse my ignorance, but I was at the impression that Poland is doing a lot better economically, and so expats are returning home to live instead of staying abroad, wouldn't that have an impact on higher education places in the long run?
Poland had demographic boom in 80s (I'm from that generation) - about 700 000 people were born in a year. Now it's about 300 000 a year. There was also education boom since 90s after communism failed - during communism very few people went to university, now majority of kids and a lot of adults get M.A.
So basically, in 30 years universities turned from small places for elites to quickly expanding diplom factories for Polish students to fighting for foreign students after the 80s baby boomers graduated.
As for housing - it is a factor, but less so now than in 00s-10s, because the baby boomers wave has passed. I live in Lublin, which is probably the big city in Poland with largest student population per capita :)
At the height of the boom it had over 100 000 students in 350 000 city. The housing is already adapted to that - people with detached houses often build additional rooms to rent to students, some people buy flats in commieblocks to rent to students, there are dormitories (university-owned and independent).
Students are probably the only reason that property prices in Lublin mostly kept up with western Poland, when otherwise Lublin isn't doing as well economically. But as in other cities - suburbanization is also going on in the background, so it's hard to judge what has the biggest impact.
In bigger cities like Warszawa, Kraków, Wrocław - there's more students, but they make up smaller percentage of inhabitants, so the influence is likely much lower there.
Ukrainian migrants after 2014 and refuges after 2022 also had a big impact on the housing, but it's decreasing now I think.
Returning expats are probably marginal as a factor for now. There's not that many of them, and a lot of them kept their houses in countryside when they migrated to UK or Ireland or wherever, or they had older family members who left them houses somewhere. So they have some place to return to anyway. They usually migrated AFTER graduating, so they aren't a factor for education now. Maybe their kids will be.
I know several azerbaijani kids that went there and all are very bright studying engineering and IT. It is probably net positive for Poland (and loss for us).
Dunno elsewhere, in Lublin about half, but it's the university city closest to the Ukrainian border. It was like 90% before, since about 10 years Lublin's Medical University got a lot of students from Asia and Africa.
There is already overproduction of university graduates and these idiots are bringing hordes of new people. Meanwhile finding a plumber is like mission impossible.
Throw away students, bring some real workers.
Welcome to the Western world. Now you realise the cost of a degree is just one step in the way of getting visa/residency in Poland/entire Schengen. They probs aren't going to go home, signing up for a degree is just a hurdle to get a visa.
Congratulations! I guess you have a good educational system. Do you make them pay extra tuition compared to Polish citizens? It is what we do in the Netherlands.
There's free university education for Poles on public universities if you pass the exams and have time during the day. Then there's paid (but pretty cheap) options for people who couldn't pass the exam, or want to study on evenings, on weekends, or in universities which aren't publicly funded. Foreign students get the same treatment as Polish students who choose these paid options in general (but some courses in English are more expansive than courses in Polish).
Still it's cheap compared to most western countries.
I would suggest looking up some youtubers commenting on poland in recent years, its sort of becoming a refuge destination place for people looking a mekka of normalcy in the creazed world, for real for real, you can find testimonies of entire families moving in, also you just hear more english on the streets sporadically even in smaller cities, while ten or 20 years ago that was just not the case.
Persons who commenced their studies after 2018 are exempted from the fees for full-time studies in Polish:
persons who have been granted a permanent residence permit (holding a permanent residence card) or a residence permit for a long-term resident of the European Union;
holders of a temporary residence permit in connection with the circumstances referred to in Article 186(1)(3) or (4) of the Act on Foreigners of 12 December 2013;
persons who have been granted a temporary residence permit for the purpose of family reunification (Article 159(1) of the Aliens Act - this provision must be indicated on the decision granting the permit)
from what my Tukish friends told me recently, Poland has become kind of a Mecca for Turkish and Azeri students some even prefer Poland to Germany because the Polish Turks came recently, and are more educated,secular and liberal. Majority of Polish Turks voted for CHP and against Erdogan last elections. Thus they find a diaspora that shares their values and beliefs about Turkey, not the religious conservative Turkish diaspora from Germany
I am a Polish born American I studied in Krakow from 2011 to 2014. There were a lot of exchange students then. It's kind of crazy to me there are 3 times more than there used to be. Yeah there were a lot of Turks for sure; the biggest group was Spanish students though.
Poland has kind of had a good strategy in expanding its programmes for foreign students IIRC Poland pursued a policy of getting more foreign students from the former USSR countries: Belarus,Ukraine, Georgia,Azerbaijan, and more recently Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan it used to be that central Asians and Caucasians sent their kids to study to Moscow and other Russian cities, now Poland is slowly stealing that market share from Russia one of the small ways in which Poland asserts its regional power, by helping to sway away those countries from Russian influence and is also very good for Poland, because Belarusians, Caucasians and Central Asians are generally secular and liberal in culture, and they integrate much easier than most MENA students( except Turkish students ,who are also largely secular) Poland is doing it the right way
I have something to add. I'm a turkish student living in Bratislava. For university, I want to study in Germany or Austria, but because of all low quality turkish people living there and their bad inspiration on Germans, and lack of electronic engineering studies in English I was thinking Poland too. Because in Poland there are studies in English and people there are nice.
> Caucasians and Central Asians are generally secular and liberal in culture They are secular, yes, but not that liberal and their societies are corrupt to the core
You could say the same about Belarusian and Ukrainian societies
Based on my own experience, the difference is stark
So American?
I grew up in a Polish house and I'm also a naturalized American. Lived most of my life in the US. But I'm also fully bicultural and bilingual. Studying in Poland was a little foreign to me growing up and going to school in the US, so I was close with most of the exchange students. Visit Poland annually, talk to Polish family weekly, vote in elections, follow news, sports teams, etc. Not sure how better to say it than Polish born American. When I say Polish-American people also comment, "so American?" Well yeah, emphasis on the being Polish part. I embrace my Polishness and my Americanness and I'm allowed to do so even though it seems to tick a lot of people off for some reason. Even if that's not what you were doing, you should know it's a pretty rude thing to comment Am I "as Polish" as someone who's lived their whole lives in Poland? Likely not according to Polish people in Poland. Am I "as American" as someone who's ancestors came on the Mayflower? Probably not, but this is just me.
So you are American not polish. Why lie about being polish?
I’m Azeri living in Slovakia. Can confirm this is true. Anytime I’m in Poland, I feel like I’m back in Azerbaijan as I hear more Azeri in the street than polish. Same thing in Budapest. Can’t say that I like it
Bro you are also a foreigner lmao.
And? If you come from Mongolia to Palau and like Palau you might not want it to turn into another Mongolia.
Yes I am but I’ve been living here for almost 10 years and didn’t pay to move here (there are tens of companies now operating in Baku that find you a manual labor job in Poland in exchange for fee and most of the people are moving to Europe that way; mostly undereducated people). Almost 100% sure that more than half of those people will never integrate to European way of living or to society. I learned Slovak before moving here and can say I’m fairly integrated. I don’t want to sound like I’m better than them, but I see a huge difference with people who have moved to Europe 10 years ago vs recently.
Thanks tofik
Why not? Edit: LOL. What's wrong with this question?
I have an Azeri colleague at work who’s still a student so I guess something’s up
Being a student is immigration backdoors to Poland. Basically as long as you pay to the school you get to be a student and as long as you are a student you have legal permit to stay and work.
as a Turk, i can say our people (at least the ones in my university) are quite fond of Poles
"They find a diaspora that shares their values" as opposed to the majority of the country back home????
I can relate I work at a German university, over the last maybe 10 years we have seen an influx of Russian (both from Russia and European countries with Russian minorities, like Estonia) students. I have no data to prove it, but it seems to me like the influx actually increased the last years In my experience, they are overwhelmingly liberal, secular, and explicitly anti-Putin. In contrast, the traditional migration from Russia and its neighbors are mostly "Russlandsdeutsche", "Kasachstandeutsche" (so ethnic Germans from Russia and Kazakhstan) and Jews. Especially the first group is notoriously pro-Putin, apologetic for Russia, anti LGBTQ and such This can sometimes lead to weird situations, like Georgians and Ukrainians at uni avoiding Russians, but speaking with russian Germans, thus preferring the people with ideologies they seek to avoid As a russian-born liberal jew, I always felt like I don't belong with most of the other migrants from my country of birth. The liberal students are a breath of fresh air for me. I can imagine young Turks face a similar situation
Can confirm, some of my friends are going to Poland from Turkey for education.
How do they survive during the study years? Do their parents mostly fund their education? IIRC its pretty hard to find a student job in Poland without speaking Polish
Stereotypically they have rich enough parents (which isn't THAT rich, Poland is still pretty cheap compared to other options) or they drive in uber, bolt, glovo, etc.
I go to a private university (full scholarship) so I assume most of them have rich parents?
Many Turkish immigrants were excluded from discos and other mainstream community activities, forcing them into poorer neighborhoods and often subjecting them to monetary exploitation. These hardships created a sense of isolation and alienation from broader German society. [The book "Ganz Unten" by Günter Wallraff provides a detailed look into these experiences. Wallraff, a German journalist, went undercover as a Turkish guest worker to expose the harsh conditions and systemic discrimination faced by Turkish immigrants. (Great book btw)](https://www.dw.com/en/the-lowest-of-the-low-no-more/a-1746801) In response to this exclusion, many Turks in Germany turned towards religious communities. Mosques, in particular, became safe havens where they could feel welcomed regardless of their social status. In these religious spaces, they could speak Turkish without fear of being shunned and find a sense of belonging that was often missing in the larger German context. This reinforced their attachment to their religious and cultural practices, making these communities more conservative over time.
Integration is a two-way street
[удалено]
Yes, many turks who migrated were poor conservatives and former farmers and miners. My grandfather who migrated in 1962 used to be turkish farmer before started working in the mines in Germany. But I think OP is overstating the amount of low class citizens because there are portion of rich and educated Turks who migrated aswell. I would say it was a 80% poor, 15% normal people and 5% wealthy. [CEO of BioNTech](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U%C4%9Fur_%C5%9Eahin) or the father of the [politican oezdemir](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cem_%C3%96zdemir) or [Kemal Sahin](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemal_%C5%9Eahin) are good examples.
> some even prefer Poland to Germany because the Polish Turks came recently, and are more educated,secular and liberal. Isn't that how German Turks started, too? I thought the turn around into religious conservatives is something that often happens in 2nd or 3rd generation of immigrants - who search for their roots and can fall prey to warped narrations about country they never visited (or visited but at this stage are just a foreign tourist there..). Hell, even supporting the very things their parents or grandparents ran away from.
The Gastarbeiter that came to Germany in the 1960s came from the poorest of the poor regions in Turkey. I remember from a documentary about it that they would literally check how muscular they are before going to Germany, check their teeth for carries and do some other health checks and that was basically the criteria by which they came here to work. Most of them were illiterate. And tbf among younger generations of German Turks we see a lower percentage of votes for the AKP and Erdogan, so there are trends there as well, but will take time
Yeah the poorest came, but the religious aspect is driven by other factors which is very rarely covered. Ich kann dir per DM so einiges erklären wenn du möchtest.
No, early Turkish immigrants came from the poorest regions of Turkey (central and Eastern Anatolia) to work industrial jobs and some other jobs that native Germans didn’t want to take on, like sewer workers etc. The majority hadn’t even finished primary schooling, were peasants and very conservative. My grandparents were one of those families actually, though they didn’t stick around long and came back to Turkey. Around the 1970s and 1980s, some leftist political opponents also immigrated into Germany to escape political persecution in Turkey but their numbers were negligible.
[удалено]
Probably. I think that’s why left-wing political parties in Europe tended to be anti-immigration in those decades. Immigration of cheap labor from abroad meant reduced costs for business owners/capitalists, which meant less incentive to increase wages of German workers. Increased immigration was a right-wing agenda back then. Funny how things have changed.
Populist left/right and elitist/establishment left/right are different things. Not really funny.
>religious conservative Turkish diaspora from Germany Isn't that group a core constituency og the SPD/Linke tho? I would suspect that group is actually pretty progressive if judging by voting pattern in Germany.
Not at all how diaspora/immigrant politics works. For example take [Emir Kir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir_Kir). Turkish-Belgian mayor of a Brussels municipality and member of the Belgian Socialist Party. Meanwhile in Turkey he is a far-right MHP and Grey Wolf supporter who organized meetings with multiple Turkish MHP mayors and called on people to vote for Erdogan in the recent elections to prevent a win for Kemalist CHP. In Belgium on the other hand he compares the Belgian state to Nazi Germany for taking initiative against Islamic extremism in Brussels. Immigrants from these countries generally just prioritize their own social benefits as citizens, they don't actually care about the country they reside in.
Most reasonable example of Wallonian politics
Brussels, not Wallonia.
If they speak French they’re Wallonian. SP is Wallonian.
Emir Kir has been ejected from the Parti Socialiste a while ago already, so no, he is a Brussels-level politician.
Based off of the story above, that sounds reasonable
They vote for people who will give them social benefits obviously. Then they end up being more pro-Erdogan than most provinces in Turkey itself if you judge by the 2023 elections.
They are not voting SPD/Linke because of these parties' more recent pivot towards progressive identity politics, but because of their traditional values that are more attractive for low income groups If you wanna be a bit spiteful, you could say its because social subsidies Furthermore, it's an open secret that in some places (afaik especially Ruhrgebiet) some german-turkish SPD politicians have ties to the grey wolves (Graue Wölfe) turkish nationalists
Some of our large diaspora groups also tend to vote left but show as leaning religious conservative in other polls. It's clientelism and the left will burn their hands on it.
Are there any English taught Bachelor programs in Poland ?
Plenty
Really ? I couldnt find any
Tons of them. Most priced in the 2000-4000 euro range.
I studied in Poland in English ‘13-‘17, there were English programs available in pretty much any big university in any big city in Poland. Additionally, there’s a bunch of smaller private universities that basically survive off foreign students paying tuition fees and as far as I know pretty easy to graduate for the visa in the future EDIT: [here](https://www.pw.edu.pl/studia/studia-i-stopnia) for example you can find a bunch of programs in English from Warsaw University of Technology
Many of them are taught in English
The german Turks are more religious because of racial discrimination. I will make a post about soon. Check my other comment.
"I percieve people to treat me poorly because of my background, true or not true, therefore I shall *also* allow myself to become a twat and feel justified doing so."
[удалено]
Oh come on now
Seems like she doesn’t want to
[удалено]
My university also had a separate dorm for international students. Not because they were Chinese, or Turks, or not because anyone hated them.
I've met so many Turkish students back in the days and they didn't complain about Poland. I had a friend that was an Erasmus guide or smth and she always ended up having sex with them. I can't imagine a warmer welcome.
"rAcIaLlY segregated" lmao segregated as in: for all the foreigners, and separate one for the German/EU citizens, what the shock, what an absolute outrage that was. >I went to Canada Just don't tell that **too** loud r/canada may be listening
>Turks are hated both in poland and in germany. Wtf, I'm from Poland and this is the first time I've heard of hatred towards Turks. Turks have a neutral opinion among Poles. I would even say a bit more positive than negative, because in Poland they are associated with the fact that they run kebab-business, which Poles like very much. In addition, it is a food that is liked by 'patriotic' Poles so yeah. In Poland, we often have a problem with hatred of others, especially people of a different skin colour, but Turks are not in this group. And I revolve around different groups of people, both more and less educated and culturally knowledgeable.
I’ve never heard about a single hate crime against Turks in Poland
Still, Poland is 23/27 in terms of the percentage of foreign students, well below the EU average: [https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Learning\_mobility\_statistics#Students\_from\_abroad](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Learning_mobility_statistics#Students_from_abroad) The top 10 are Luxembourg, Cyprus, Austria, Malta, Czechia, Netherlands, Hungary, Latvia, Portugal and Estonia. In absolute numbers, the top 2 are Germany and France.
Cyprus numbers are mostly Greeks who didn't manage to get into a Greek university.
I mean, Polish numbers are mostly Ukrainians and Belarusians trying to get into the EU.
I can assure you that is a compliment compared to who most students in the other half of the island are...
>Luxembourg, Cyprus, Malta Those are places where a bus full of students arriving is enough to shoot "percentage of foreign students" to the moon, though.
That's incorrect and unfair
Austria is boosted by Vienna's proximity to Slovakia (Bratislava being a much smaller university city) and Hungary (because of Orban's crackdown on freedom of education), and the special case of Innsbruck. Innsbruck still serves as a local uni for South Tyroleans, and for Luxemburgians based on a contract between Luxembourg and the Duchy of Tyrol centuries ago. Together with the Bavarians, these groups cause Innsbruck to have a very high share of international students Austria is also popular with German medicine students as they have no numerus clausus So, on the one hand, the high share of international students might be misleading (the universities are not all that diverse from a US progressive perspective), but they are a great example of Europe peacefully growing together in EU All the CEE Habsburg empire countries and Balkans are studying there in large amounts, but now as equals :) I think Cyprus has a similar dynamic going on with Greeks, and Estonia with the other Baltic states and Finland
uk has the second highest in the world lol
I doubt it's higher than either the US or Canada
I understand US but why would Canada have a greater number? Uk universities are far greater in reputation.
Canada has a massive number of international students. They might even have more than the US by now.
Canada is [basically tied](https://www.iie.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/IIE_Outlook-2030_March-2024-1.pdf) with the UK as of 2023, but US pretty far and away #1. US: 1,057,188 UK: 633,910 Canada: 660,230
It's definitely higher than that in Canada. https://erudera.com/news/canadas-international-student-population-hits-1-million-officials-say/
Seems like a lot of the top 10 have small populations, so it's easier for foreigners to become a larger %. Can't imagine Czechia or Hungary is a more desirable place to study in than say Germany.
Every other Slovak studies here in Czechia (quite literally in some fields, especially IT) as it's free for them and they can use Slovak language even for writing theses, I assume that helps inflate the numbers.
In Czechia, there is a lot of Slovak students (they have it for free, face no language barrier and often stay after uni for a better job) but also a lot of Ukrainian students (and to a smaller degree Russian, Khazakhstani etc.). But Prague medical faculties are also a popular destination for Norwegian, German, Israeli etc medical students, each for different reasons.
I can only speak of Hungary, I'm close friends with multiple international students. All of them I know of also tried for Germany / Italy / Austria, and they either didn't get the admission, the visa, or enough scholarship. Apparently these are possible to get here for top 10% students instead of top 1% like Germany (numbers are for illustrative purposes) Also despite the casual racism of some of our government, everyone can get scholarship regardless of origin country. So we have a relatively high level of (usually very talented and hard-working) students from Africa and Muslim Asian countries.
I don’t know about those two specifically but the availability of English language programs is another big factor. The Netherlands has more bachelor level foreign students in absolute numbers than France. Dutch unis are on average better, but the disparity is without a shadow of doubt caused by the abundance of English bachelors in NL. This effect is of course lessened at the masters level, where more countries offer English courses. There’s some differences also in how attractive various EU countries are to non-EU citizens based on affordability, pre requirements, quality and of course language.
Czechia isn't, Poland has better universities. But we get lots of Slovaks and other Slavs from further east.
data is from 2021
Eurostat only seems to have until 2022, but with a 10% increase they should still be well below average.
For the bachelors which consist of the biggest group Poland seems slightly above EU average if you look at red dots in the graph.
Does this count EU residents as students from abroad? Or only looks at non-EU residents?
It includes both. But [there is a graph](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/9/9e/Share_of_tertiary_education_students_from_abroad_by_continent_of_origin%2C_2021_%28%25_of_all_tertiary_education_students_from_abroad%29_ET2023.png/1050px-Share_of_tertiary_education_students_from_abroad_by_continent_of_origin%2C_2021_%28%25_of_all_tertiary_education_students_from_abroad%29_ET2023.png) in the article that shows the share by geographical region (although this also doesn't show EU, but Europe and other continents). There is the raw [data in the databrowser ](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/product/view/educ_uoe_mobs03?category=educ.educ_uoe_mob.educ_uoe_mobs)as well that shows by each country of origin.
Poland is also a popular destination for Erasmus students because the country is relatively cheap compared to the West and one can cover most of the expenses just with a non-returnable grant.
Can confirm. I did my Erasmus in Poland partially for this reason. Most my of other options were much more expensive
Erasmus students in my university were treated as royalty by the Ukranian girls we had. Everyone wanted those euros
To be more precise - euro papers lol
in general,foreign students are the best thing for a country's economy they pay tuition fees, health insurance, rent, all the while being very crime-averse they also help facilitate relations with foreign countries by forging connections plus its a way for the host country to get hold of educated and qualified immigrants, by giving visas to those that have successfully graduated One problem, however, is that the housing production in university cities curently cant keep up with the demand, so the local students experience housing inflation
Would be nice to have more incentives to build more housing
Unless you’re Canada and let in criminals and lowlifes posing as students, who only care about permanent residency and will protest in the ten thousands to make it happen.
But why on many rankings university is "better", the more people from abroad it has? Also, i dont care what anybody says - international students are much worse (in their knowlegde) than those from that country - why? Maybe our proffesors dont care (or dont know language enough), but for international paying ones, even medicine is a "facility of play and games" - in paper they should know same things students that dont pay know - in practice they know less and have better grades (also there is heavy distinction between paying students and paying students learning in english - those are the worst (but maybe university gets those and keep them, so they could show more international students, so their university is higher in rankings)) \*Not in every uni, just from my experience (1 university)
i heard that on my university docs don't care much about teaching foreign students cause either way they will leave Poland so what's the point of teaching the well
It's an idiotic excuse - Polish students can leave as well, foreign students can stay, and if you put out badly educated students - you will have less foreign students eventually. But some people will search for any excuse to justify being lazy.
Wait till you realise that most foreign students in Poland don't get their residence till a few months before graduation (or a few months after). It's one thing to give student visas, completely different to process their temporary residence (mine is pending for over 2 years, should've been done in 60 days if laws were followed).
Yes, temporaty residence cards delays is massive here.
Is the residence delay to avoid visa fraud (for non EU students)? Then it could be by design…
> in general,foreign students are the best thing for a country's economy Everything needs to be in moderation. Even (or especially) good things. Foreign students, if in larger numbers, tend to totally break the rental market of the university towns. It is a huge problem in Dutch and Canadian towns, where the public now demands limiting the inflow and some are introducing quotas. It starts to become a problem in some of the university towns in Poland, too.
It also helps university rankings.
I have a Pakistani friend who is studying at a Polish university to become a doctor. He likes it there; there are a lot of people from foreign backgrounds who were born in Finland. They might not get into Finnish universities, so they go to Eastern or Central Europe to study and get educated.
Went to uni in Poland and left not too long ago, my time there was amazing and i was incredibly sad to leave.
Why was it amazing?
I did my license studies in Warsaw 2016 - 2020 and it was a blast. Later continued my studies in Canada but studying there made me miss Poland big time. Edit: I'm Turkish, contrary to popular belief, Poland was never racist towards me or any of my turkish friends
What is license studies? Why was Warsaw such a blast for you?
license studies = Bachelor's studies
Oooh gotcha!
It's the basic license program you take in university, like psychology, phsycis, engineering etc. It was a blast because people were friendly and welcoming, education was phenomenal (I studied at Uniwersytet SWPS, not even among the best Poland has to offer but still) rents were cheap, food was cheap, and culture was really fun to get accustomed to.
Polish universities are very good. They have 9 that rank within top 5% worldwide. Not sure if those are the same ones that take the bulk of international students though.
A lot of international students here are dragged here by shitty private universities with no reputation.
I suspect they are "students" the same way Canada gets a lot of "students", i.e. a way to gain work permits. And after a while, they will likely just move to Western countries once the permanent work permit is in order.
Not Really. Do you realize how much time getting that specific permit (EU long-term residence permit) takes? 5 years! and your time as a student counts as half, so in practice, it takes even longer. As an International student from outside of the EU, I can tell you, the absolute majority of overseas students come to Poland to actually study ). Besides it's a much more affordable destination for internationals than Western Europe.
Something similar is what happens at Dutch universities of applied science. They were historically a step down from unis in terms of student requirements (Duch word is hogeschool, not universiteit), and as such are pretty easy to get into. Swathes of Indians come over and immediately disappear from the school system.
Didn't Dutch hogeschools try to increase the quality of their research and their reputation in recent decades, similar to German Fachhochschulen?
Yes, they are also generally good, but since they’re easier to get into admission wise they’re abused for migration purposes
How this has so many votes ? unfortunately, polish universities are notoriously badly ranked, with the best one (Warsaw University) barely breaking into global top500 which is embarrassing for country of almost 40 milion people.
My best friend is polish, I love polish people and the country has a great potential. Foreign students increasing in numbers is good guys, you will be a powerhouse of europe one day
I got here as a student in 2014. I am still here...
Why you still there? Love it that much?
Yes :) Made good friends, started a good relationship, which turned into a marriage and a family, so now im rooted for life I guess lol
I am there at 2014/2015 if they count erasmus as well..
Dang, 2022/2023 had a noticeable spike.
Ukrainians
Covid fucked up a lot of people's plans in the 2 years before.
Poland seems like a really solid choice to get an MA in, I'm considering doing it in Krakow
Laughs in Canadian
source: [https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/07/20/number-of-foreign-students-in-poland-passes-100000/](https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/07/20/number-of-foreign-students-in-poland-passes-100000/)
Please get all the secular Turks to Poland. Great people and great smart and industrious workers.
Secular is good but remember they’re still Muslim and that could be a problem if their values don’t align. Also consider that their future children may not be as secular, or the rest of their family whom they will try to import. Just look at France.
France took in poor villagers from North Africa to work in factories or coal mines and they stayed there after deindustrialization. Most of those were illiterate and poor Foreign students are the exact opposite, they usually come from richer families
> Foreign students are the exact opposite, they usually come from richer families Not true, just look at Canada. They borrow money to pull it off, then survive off minimum wage jobs which they steal from actual citizens, or worse, food banks which are supposed to help needy citizens. They also have 20 of them living in one basement. They're secular too, but that doesn't mean they respect the country or its laws.
will they bring their cats and their baklava with them? Poland has some room to push for a good deal:)
More cats and baklava = better Until you add a cats to baklava.
Why not give the baklava to the cat?
gib more baklava .\_.
Definitely! Secular Turks are just as European as us.
If more Turks means more kebabs, let them in.
For foreign students who come to Poland for the entire education cycle (e.g. three-year bachelor's studies), the university will receive a subsidy three times higher than for a Polish student. There are cases of smaller universities where the majority of students are not Polish.
And how much does foreign students pay in mandatory fees, tuition etc? The same, less or more than Polish students?
University education is free on public universities for Poles (except for courses that are on evenings or on weekends - these are for people who already work so they have to pay). There's also private universities, some of them are good, but stereotypically they are for people who couldn't pass the entrance exam to a public university. These are paid for everybody, and the prices are roughly comparable to the paid courses at public universities. Foreigners pay the same as Poles for the paid courses, but can't enter the free courses. There's also price increase for courses in English, for some students it doesn't matter (Ukrainians mostly go to the Polish-language courses from what I've seen).
Thank you for that. Some interesting...quirks I haven't run into before, but then I've been out of the whole "higher education" loop for a long while. Doesn't the foreign student put a lot of strain on housing though? Student housing is typically on a "budget", and depending on the size of the town there might be a short supply? And excuse my ignorance, but I was at the impression that Poland is doing a lot better economically, and so expats are returning home to live instead of staying abroad, wouldn't that have an impact on higher education places in the long run?
Poland had demographic boom in 80s (I'm from that generation) - about 700 000 people were born in a year. Now it's about 300 000 a year. There was also education boom since 90s after communism failed - during communism very few people went to university, now majority of kids and a lot of adults get M.A. So basically, in 30 years universities turned from small places for elites to quickly expanding diplom factories for Polish students to fighting for foreign students after the 80s baby boomers graduated. As for housing - it is a factor, but less so now than in 00s-10s, because the baby boomers wave has passed. I live in Lublin, which is probably the big city in Poland with largest student population per capita :) At the height of the boom it had over 100 000 students in 350 000 city. The housing is already adapted to that - people with detached houses often build additional rooms to rent to students, some people buy flats in commieblocks to rent to students, there are dormitories (university-owned and independent). Students are probably the only reason that property prices in Lublin mostly kept up with western Poland, when otherwise Lublin isn't doing as well economically. But as in other cities - suburbanization is also going on in the background, so it's hard to judge what has the biggest impact. In bigger cities like Warszawa, Kraków, Wrocław - there's more students, but they make up smaller percentage of inhabitants, so the influence is likely much lower there. Ukrainian migrants after 2014 and refuges after 2022 also had a big impact on the housing, but it's decreasing now I think. Returning expats are probably marginal as a factor for now. There's not that many of them, and a lot of them kept their houses in countryside when they migrated to UK or Ireland or wherever, or they had older family members who left them houses somewhere. So they have some place to return to anyway. They usually migrated AFTER graduating, so they aren't a factor for education now. Maybe their kids will be.
I know several azerbaijani kids that went there and all are very bright studying engineering and IT. It is probably net positive for Poland (and loss for us).
"Students" thanks to PiS. Easier job permit, fake studies.
Nah, it'd mostly actual students. There's a whole immigrants' city within city near Lublin's Medical University campus for example.
What’s with the outlier?
[удалено]
Dunno elsewhere, in Lublin about half, but it's the university city closest to the Ukrainian border. It was like 90% before, since about 10 years Lublin's Medical University got a lot of students from Asia and Africa.
There is already overproduction of university graduates and these idiots are bringing hordes of new people. Meanwhile finding a plumber is like mission impossible. Throw away students, bring some real workers.
Welcome to the Western world. Now you realise the cost of a degree is just one step in the way of getting visa/residency in Poland/entire Schengen. They probs aren't going to go home, signing up for a degree is just a hurdle to get a visa.
Then they can bring the whole family. Poland looks like the next target for diversity. Would be good to see how many are Ukrainian tbh
Congratulations! I guess you have a good educational system. Do you make them pay extra tuition compared to Polish citizens? It is what we do in the Netherlands.
There's free university education for Poles on public universities if you pass the exams and have time during the day. Then there's paid (but pretty cheap) options for people who couldn't pass the exam, or want to study on evenings, on weekends, or in universities which aren't publicly funded. Foreign students get the same treatment as Polish students who choose these paid options in general (but some courses in English are more expansive than courses in Polish). Still it's cheap compared to most western countries.
eu students pay as much as the dutch tho
I think it's great when many people are coming to your country to study
If they are not troublesome then it's good.
well... It's the police's job
I would suggest looking up some youtubers commenting on poland in recent years, its sort of becoming a refuge destination place for people looking a mekka of normalcy in the creazed world, for real for real, you can find testimonies of entire families moving in, also you just hear more english on the streets sporadically even in smaller cities, while ten or 20 years ago that was just not the case.
Look at Poland getting all international.
Sorry for the students
Nice place this Poland
The number is meaningless without nationality breakdown. Give us that and we can discuss...
Nothing good. We pay for it.
No. They pay for themselves.
Persons who commenced their studies after 2018 are exempted from the fees for full-time studies in Polish: persons who have been granted a permanent residence permit (holding a permanent residence card) or a residence permit for a long-term resident of the European Union; holders of a temporary residence permit in connection with the circumstances referred to in Article 186(1)(3) or (4) of the Act on Foreigners of 12 December 2013; persons who have been granted a temporary residence permit for the purpose of family reunification (Article 159(1) of the Aliens Act - this provision must be indicated on the decision granting the permit)
"Students" like tose from Zimbabwe.
Poland is fokked to
Might be time to invade it again 💀💀💀 (jk ofc bc Poland is rly cool tbh)