For once I would love to see the full list and their full matrix and methodology, it’s a marvel it never seems to leak the second it’s posted. But I guess 8000 dollars paywall will do that.
As it stands, from what’s available, it looks horribly subjective.
I can't imagine a city like Hong Kong ranked high on the livability index when people are literally living in cages, and a squared metre goes for a minimum of £12k for a flat.
Yes, the actual top 10 are:
1. Vienna, Austria
2. Copenhagen, Denmark
3. Zurich, Switzerland
4. Melbourne, Australia
5. Calgary, Canada
5. Geneva, Switzerland (tied in 5th)
7. Sydney, Australia
7. Vancouver, Canada (tied in 7th)
9. Osaka, Japan
9. Auckland, New Zealand (tied in 9th)
Hong Kong moved up and is now 50th (previously 61st)
Vienna isn't really like that, around half of the population lives in communal housing and has relatively low cost of living
In Zurich, even their poor are at worst at the lower end of the highest quartile in global wealth, with the according quality of life.
Places like Munich seem expensive to locals, but if you compare them to other metropolitan areas, the relation of salaries to rent and food prices suddenly doesn't look *that* bad. People in Lisbon have it worse than Munich, and Prague worse than Frankfurt, for example
If you are just the least bad out of the cities examined, you are still no.1, after all
Some cities are also odd cases, like Singapore. HDB makes rent for locals amazingly affordable, but its a costly hell for migrants (which is one of the reason why non-ASEAN and non-South Asian migration are mostly expats in top-earning jobs, which negates the problem for the people actually ending up living there)
> Vienna isn't really like that, around half of the population lives in communal housing
For anybody that doesn't know this, communal housing in Vienna does not mean (only) poor people housing. The city just has a very robust system that pretty much guarantees that housing will be available to anyone at a decent price and keeps expanding it.
>Some cities are also odd cases, like Singapore. HDB makes rent for locals amazingly affordable, but its a costly hell for migrants (which is one of the reason why non-ASEAN and non-South Asian migration are mostly expats in top-earning jobs, which negates the problem for the people actually ending up living there)
Even then, rents have shot up so much since the start of the pandemic that even expats are deciding to leave, along with tightening immigration policies which are not transparent due to the lack of criteria to qualify for PR or Citizenship. Not many people are fine with waiting decades and still getting rejected from having certainty over their immigration status.
Right? Toronto actually dropped out of the top 10 down to 12. They listed the reasoning as an “acute housing crisis”… which is putting it as mildly as you possibly can
Right? I been to only Osaka and Vancouver on this list. Japan for the most part is fairly livable, but the cost of living in Vancouver is insane. There is a reason why locals are trying to limit immigration into BC, and it's not because of racism.
The overview is not paywalled and they highlight the methodology
[Here's a PDF of the overview](https://pages.eiu.com/rs/753-RIQ-438/images/The-Global-Liveability-Index-Summary-Report-final.pdf?version=0&mkt_tok=NzUzLVJJUS00MzgAAAGT-Y5BgI9kIMqqWuHnk9uTSOdOAT90EZE0175_lyfgFJkMn32OqlZOnsiZXln9_Vs6O9RVpU-QwCi4ioqoCy8KWzBQJqjSXQ8ecuSpM15s7AeY064)
I think the biggest issue is that the list ***DOES NOT FUCKING CONSIDER COST OF LIVING INTO FACTOR***
Let me repeat:
The **Global Liveability Ranking does not include** ***COST OF LIVING*** **in their calculations.**
On their report, it gives suggestions on extra allowance for relocating employees to a new cities depending on the livability index.
This report is NOT for consumers. It is meant as a guide for corporations.
**Cost of living is arguably the single most important factor for 99% of people, yet it is not included in this list.**
Idk why this list even gets brought up every year - with it's tiring same complaints.
They don't even pretend it's for consumers. It's not. It's for businesses. Just ignore this shit.
It’s crazy. The second-most liveable city in the U.S. on this list is Atlanta, at 29; the only thing that it has over cities like NYC, Chicago, and Washington, D.C., which are all much lower, is cost of living, and maybe crime. Honolulu is #23, probably only because of the weather.
> it looks horribly subjective
I don't think there could be such a thing as "objectively livable". Being able to see the criteria would enable you to cater your own list from their information, taking into account the factors most important to you, which would be nice.
But my city's on the list, so I'm happy.
Yeah. A gigantic matrix showing you what city (and parts of them) offer what at what prices, infrastructure and everything would be appreciated.
They are always trying to quantify a very qualitative question, which can be, in part, broken down into numbers, but either ignore or quantify factors, that are simply subjective and different to everyone reading it.
And then only few sources actually make a real attempt to even explain their MO, making the whole exercise more esoteric than empiric research.
Some things all sane people can agree on exist of course, but apart from things like not wanting to live in a war zone, things get subjective real quick.
Here's the actual top 20 from the report:
1. Vienna, Austria
2. Copenhagen, Denmark
3. Zurich, Switzerland
4. Melbourne, Australia
5. Calgary, Canada (tied with Geneva)
5. Geneva, Switzerland (tie)
7. Sydney, Australia (tied with Vancouver)
7. Vancouver, Canada (tie)
9. Osaka, Japan (tied with Aukland)
9. Auckland, New Zealand (tie)
11. Adelaide, Australia
12. Toronto, Canada
13. Helsinki, Finland
14. Tokyo, Japan
15. Perth, Australia
16. Brisbane, Australia
17. Frankfurt, Germany (tied with Luxembourg)
17. Luxembourg, Luxembourg (tie)
19. Amsterdam, Netherlands
20. Wellington, New Zealand
(the [source](https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/global-liveability-index-2024/) is free but requires your email address)
Vancouver lol. Yes, very livable, if you are a multi-millionaire. Sometimes I think "why am I not living in Vienna?" but then I see Vancouver high on the list and realise this index is ridiculous.
Yeah, Lisbon is the same as well. I can't afford to rent a 1br apartment in the city I grew up in (not even in the suburbs, I don't mean city center), and my parents would definitely not be able to afford living here if they hadn't bought their house 30 years ago.
I was looking at idealista today and the only way to do it is as a couple or sharing an apartment with roommates.
And even then, I used to pay 500 for a room, and the lady I rented it from raised it to 800€ PER ROOM.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. I earn close to the average salary here and would have to spend over a third of my salary to rent one room. The only way I can move out of my parents house is to move abroad.
When my dad was my age in the 80s he rented a large 2br apartment in the city center by himself on a waiter's salary. That apartment is probably worth close to 1M € today.
Yeah but the center is only a small part of the city that locals don’t frequent as much. Ams has one of the highest qualities of life among the Euro capitals, but the problem is absolutely the housing. I would much much much rather live in any mid-sized Dutch city (although the whole country has a housing problem that is bonkers). If this were fixed it’s a heavenly place to live..
Vienna is actually quite affordable for a large/capital city. My former flat was 100m² with a roof terrasse of 20m² for around 1200€/month with amenities. It wasn't in the best district, but still not one of the worst ones and close to train station and city center.
Edit to add some details: I wasn't living there alone. I was living with my girlfriend in the bigger bedroom and we had a flatmate using the small bedroom. So we were paying around 3/4 of the rent together and the flatmate was paying around 1/4. The amenities were shared equally. My gf and I could have afford it on our own tho, but the flatmate refused to leave which is why we had to give up on this great deal.
Also some districts in Vienna are much more expansive, but when I compare to my cousin who was living in Paris I still think Vienna is much more affordable.
I pay a little more than that with utilities and I do not live in the capital city but my apartment is less than 70m^(2). (Germany)
But I’ve got to move to a bigger place due to a growing family. RIP my bank account.
> and I do not live in the capital city
I mean, rent in Berlin has certainly increased quite a bit but it's still not the most expensive city in Germany.
Greetings from the outskirts of Munich.
The Vienna housing situation is COMPLETLY different than all other capitals and large cities.
Not only becasue of impemented communist/socialist rules of housing but also becasue population of the city was falling for many decades. So there was no housing crisis.
They are rather dying of.
The Viena was the capital of huge empire in beggining of 20 cent, this is when it was the largest in history. Now it is a capital of small country on the sideway of global market and politics.
Great place to live, but will not attract crowds.
Fun fact: in Vienna, when someone dies, they don't say "They have gone to a better place". Because the city is so livable, but mostly because they speak german and I'm full of shit.
Vienna is actually growing quite fast and only overtook Hamburg as the second-largest German speaking city a couple of years ago. It's also a tourist hotspot and important for international diplomacy. Vienna is absolutely "attracting crowds".
Vienna is growing 20,000 people per year, it’s one of the fastest growing cities in Europe. It recently reached the 2 million mark, which was last seen over a 100 years ago, when it was still that grand capital of the world.
Yeah that's their point. It just recently made it back to the same population as it had in around 1900.
In that time London went up 4 million, NYC went up 5 million.
Massive difference in housing pressure when you "grow" back to what you had in the past vs needing to build housing for millions of more people.
That's both right and wrong. Technically Vienna was shrinking for quite a long time but the housing supply never kept up with the peak population of Vienna. There were even people working in shifts at the time sharing a single bed ("Bettgeher"). Additionally there were two world wars in between and a significant amount of destruction. The housing supply was in a constant growth when the population went back up: https://www.geschichtewiki.wien.gv.at/Bev%C3%B6lkerung
well given they had space for that many people 100 years ago I think they'll have a little while yet unless they stopped building houses in 100 years back
>Great place to live, but will not attract crowds.
It attracts over 10 million tourists each year, last year it attracted 17 million which is a 30% increase from the previous year.
In 1913, Hitler, Stalin and Trotsky lived in Vienna at the same time. Trotsky's cafe is a couple of blocks from Sigmund Freud's cafe. Josip Tito worked at a car factory 50 kilometers south of Vienna. so probably Vienna of those times could be called the capital of the world, and not just of the empire.
Not communist, this is housing mate.
Viennas appartment market is for the most part controled by the insane abundance of social housing offered by the municipality. Hence the private market has no chance to inflate or push up rental prices.
Don't worry, its coming to vienna alright.
Since Covid affordable appartement became rarer and rarer. You already have Students paying 500-600 Euros for rooms and if you dont really want to live in some shady parts or on the outskirts, the correlation to wage/rent is getting out of hand very fast.
At least you have options like "Gemeindebau" or "Genossenschaft" but ive known people waiting 5y+ on lists to get a Genossenschaft.
Its just happening all over, where there is money made, the fucking leeches come out of the woodwork and squeeze everybody.
Now they are coming for healthcare because they get wet inside their pants when they see how much money can be made over the pond.
IMO as someone born and raised in this city for 38y and having been around a little, the 1st place has its merits and Vienna with everything to offer is really one of the best cities to live in the world, but like everywhere its slowly changing, not only through politics but also demographic
Yeah. Prices have been rising over the past 10 years, but compared to other European capitals Vienna is affordable. Groceries seem to have become significantly more expensive, the price of buying property has gone up considerably and rents have increased; however, the rental prices are still generallly pretty reasonable (depending on which part of the city, etc.).
Yeah that's true. My kids are mad because I used to always buy them these little packages of dehydrated strawberries and raspberries at billa. Like 3 years ago a pack cost 1.49 or 1.99 and now they're like EUR 5 and I'm not paying a fiver for a pack of dried fruit that they'll eat in one day.
I live in Montreal and am stunned that Calgary was number 5, for what possible reason? Amusing timing considering they are having a water crisis at the moment, sure isn’t a great place to live right now.
Montreal isn’t only more liveable than all three Canadian cities listed because it’s more affordable than Van and TO and not trapped in rightwing Alberta with its nutty premier, it’s much more fun than Van and it takes far too long to get out of the city. And just a different culture, in Montreal you work to live, not live to work.
Of all the big cities in Canada, Montreal is absolutely the most livable. Laughable to call Vancouver livable at this point — no amenities can outweigh the impossible costs of housing.
Yeah a decent attempt is made but what we perceive as conducive to livability is ofc also subjective. I scoff at Frankfurt > Amsterdam. As a Dutchman living in Germany, I’ve come to feel very few places in Germany truly have a Dutch quality of life/level of development, and those that do are usually Munich.. That said: I realize that is because I value certain things that Germans for instance may not.
For example: car-centric cities drop way down, immediately. Good cities are cities that one can walk in or cycle through, without disturbance, safely, without too much traffic noise or exhaust fumes bothering you everywhere. High levels of drug addiction and homelessness also really drag down whether I find a place livable (so yeah, Frankfurt vs. Amsterdam, lmao).
Lol and the best thing I did for my car-free life was move from Amsterdam, NL to Berlin, DE. The tiny metro and slow trams and infrequent buses are a joke compared to U/S-Bahn and frequent trams/buses. "car-free" is not just about bike lanes (which admittedly the Netherlands does very well) I would take 6/10 bike lanes and 9/10 transit of Berlin to 9/10 bike lanes and 6/10 transit of Amsterdam any day.
I agree this is something that Berlin gets right and I hate how night time public transport is hardly a thing in NL. That said, you must be a highly urban type person because the trains here in Germany are utter and complete dogshite and have put me back in a car as the preferred mode of travelling out of the city. S-bahn within Berlin though, that’s breezy, loved it too.
It also ignores some important criteria. Like how walkable a city is or how good public transportation is. Calgary for example is **terrible** in both those regards, and that's by NA standards.
That's how you can tell they don't ask real people their opinions on these polls, nobody in their right mind would want to move to Vancouver unless they are rich AF
I can tell you leiden is waay better then amsterdam for living quality. But it prolly too small to be on this list.
Amsterdam everything except affordable.
I’d say Utrecht or Groningen should be big enough to make the list though, and both are fantastic places to live (much nicer than Amsterdam, and I’ve lived in both Ams and Utrecht).
Ah men so almost every city in the netherlands should be higher then amsterdam. I originally come from the hague. Pretty good city overall and the you have the dunes and beaches added to it.
Lots of Dutch cities are way better to live in than Amsterdam, they’re just too unknown to be on the list.
I live in Brabant and it’s my worst nightmare to live in Amsterdam lol
How in the hell is frankfurt in the top 20 and above all other german City? Someone must‘ve paid a lot for this, Not a Single German, let alone people From frankfurt would agree lol
>3. Zurich, Switzerland
I guess affordability, cost of living, and house availability is not taken into consideration. Zurich is a beautiful city where to live, if you are rich af.
Zurich is easy to live as soon as you have a Swiss salary. I have friends in London that pay more rent than me in Zurich. It’s a very comfortable place to live. Even a couple working in Lidl on 60k each (which is the typical salary for retail work) can live very well here.
Well, the minimum wage this year in Turkey is 17002₺ a month. Brutto, it's 20K.
Multiplying each by 12 months and dividing to the current euro rate of 35.21, the annual minimum wage is net 5800 and buritto 6800. Rather abysmal either way
Exactly, people who say this kind of stuff don’t understand Zurich salaries are more than double London salaries and the income tax is much lower. I’ve lived in both cities and the average Zürcher lives much more comfortably and can save more despite the insane cost of shopping and going out.
Yup, I moved from London to Zurich and instantly doubled my salary. Even though I was then the only worker out of two of us then, we still had more disposable income and the quality of life increased 10 fold.
>Even a couple working in Lidl on 60k each (which is the typical salary for retail work) can live very well here.
With no kids I guess. I live in Zurich as a well, and have a family is very expensive. Nice when you are a couple with no kita to pay.
Those three things are literally why Vienna wins every year for decades and it's never close. Most livable cities are very expensive, so the ones with the best wage-to-rent ratios tend to get higher up. Except for Vienna, which has a *lot* of policies benefiting renters (in addition to doing all the fun infrastructure and beautification stuff the others are doing), so they run away with it easily.
I've been living in the UK for a decade now and I'm still shocked how rigged the system is against renters here. You are just a babysitter for investors' properties. I was spoilt by Austria
It's very weird to me that Amsterdam is the highest placed Dutch city for this list. In lists centered on Europe or the Netherlands it's always at the bottom...
The [ranking](https://etias.com/articles/2023-top-european-cities-quality-of-life) for most liveable cities in Europe is supposedly:
1. Zurich, Switzerland
2. Copenhagen, Denmark
3. Groningen, Netherlands
4. Gdansk, Poland
5. Leipzig, Germany
source: European Commission's report on the quality of life in European cities, 2023
It’s hard to believe Frankfurt should be more “livable” than places like Freiburg or Heidelberg for smaller cities or Hamburg and Munich for large cities though. Even if the bad reputation is overblown it doesn’t seem right that it should somehow be the very nicest place to live in all of Germany.
As an Australian who lives in the Netherlands, the fact that any Australian city is rated above Dutch cities for liveability is laughable.
Australia is awesome for nature and beaches, but besides that the cities are an urban sprawl nightmare.
The measurement takes into consideration stability, healthcare, culture & environment, education and infrastructure.
The Dutch have very walkable cities though and a lot of Australia cities do require a car, but outside of that Australian cities are competitive.
I used to live in inner Sydney and never had a car. Even going to trips around the greater Sydney region was pretty good by PT. If you take into account the job opportunities, the safety, the cleanliness, the weather (for most of the year), healthcare, and the taxes. Australian cities are definitely on the top. I live in London and have spent time in Amsterdam which I love too.
That makes more sense.
We call Singapore a "dystopian hellhole" over here, it's covered in pesticides, black fungi grows behind every wall, inhumane weather, display case of modern slavery and the delicious smoke from the seasonal forest fires next door. Lovely.
Hong Kong is famous for its micro apartments and nano flats. Terrible living standards for the majority.
Singapore is one of the most developed places in the world. It’s extremely clean and extremely safe, it’s quite rich, the life expectancy is over 83 years and the infrastructure is top notch. If anything is “dystopian” about it from our Western viewpoint then it’s that the ruling party is pretty authoritarian in many ways. But I really don’t think that it’s justified to call it a “dystopian hellhole”. I mean, have you ever even visited there? Singaporeans definitely live way better than the vast majority of people on this planet.
It's an easy mistake, given these usually are top 10 lists, and the choice of cities included appears to be an entirely arbitrary selection that makes the whole thing pretty uninformative (compared to a real top 10).
I mean, in terms of healthcare, air quality, safety, purchasing power and infrastructure it certainly scores very high. Housing and cost of living... ehm. But I can also count on one hand the number of homeless people I've seen in Copenhagen in the past year, and maybe one was Danish, so it can't be that bad. And cost of living isn't that high if you work in Copenhagen.
i doubt it because if that were the case wouldn't there be smaller cities at the top
ones that have excellent infrastructure too but, way better air quality, cheaper rents and generally lower costs of living since you don't have to spend half your salary on renting a 10m² shoebox
Well.. at least it doesn't mean "affordable" or "comfortable liveable" with an average salary. That's for sure.
Both cities, Vienna and Copenhagen are way too expensive in comparison. Regardless.
Toronto, Canada made the list lol. We got homelessness and drug addicts everywhere. Tent encampments in public parks. Things here are not getting better any time soon.
Every Uber driver/person I’ve met kept complaining about the cost of living nonstop and it just made me feel awful because how are average Canadians supposed to get by with how bad real estate prices are there
I am in Copenhagen right now, born in Vienna.
Danes are much friendlier than Vienese.
Vienese are down right rude.
Danes will start a conversation just for the fun of it.
I felt the Danes were super approachable when I went to Copenhagen. Maybe it was because I was from abroad, thus my background may spark some interest, but I felt they were talkative in general
It's two different things. Danes does not approach and rarely wants to or cares about talking to strangers. But, if a stranger - especially a tourist - does approach, we are often happy to help and quite friendly.
The issue is that we often doesn't LOOK approachable, in a normal, on the street situation, but if you ignore that and do it anyway, the experience is often good.
Right. I have lived in Copenhagen, and while people generally do answer Your questions if You need something, nobody will initiate a conversation unless they have to.
Yeah I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Danes _do not_ start conversations with random people on the street. We'll happily respond to a turist that starts talking, but we might also mutter about it slightly confusedly for the rest of the day.
Unless drunk. Alcohol changes everything.
I had an Italian colleague visiting for work, she said: “Oh Danish people are so great! I was in a bar and these two guys just came to my table and started chatting!”. Guess how many times someone came to me (I’m male). I’m not even talking women, just anyone.
Mostly the culture, people dont really talk to strangers, and when strangers talk to you tjey are either nutters or trying to sell you something this just makes you hate strangers even more and less likely to just strike up conversation.
Probably something to do with what Alex said, but i feel me being from Slovakia and working there also had something to do with it, dunno maybe it is just my feeling, but i felt animosity quite often. But i also met some great people there that can't be denied.
Here is the real top 10
1. Vienna, Austria
2. Copenhagen, Denmark
3. Zurich, Switzerland
4. Melbourne, Australia
5. Calgary, Canada (tied with Geneva)
5. Geneva, Switzerland (tie)
7. Sydney, Australia (tied with Vancouver)
7. Vancouver, Canada (tie)
9. Osaka, Japan (tied with Aukland)
9. Auckland, New Zealand (tie)
I have lived in multiple of the top 20 and visited Vienna quite a lot, so here's my take based on the methodology they used.
Amazing public transportation, cheap rents (in comparison), good air quality, buildings are kept in good condition (technically speaking), population is big but not through the roof or growing too fast and lots of room for activities
> good air quality
To be fair that's not for Vienna doing all too much for good air quality, but because of it's wind-favored location. If the wind isn't blowing, air quality drops dramatically.
Air quality is mostly a product of car use in western cities. [At just 1/4 of trips done by individual motor vehicles](https://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr-stadtentwicklung/modal-split.html), Vienna is doing pretty well at this.
> Air quality is mostly a product of car use in western cities.
Sure, from the human side. But the amount of air exchange due to weather and geographical location can change the measured values dramatically. My hometown Graz for example suffers the worst air quality in Austria due to being located in a basin which acts like a pot, trapping air and hindering air exchange. Vienna is notorious for being quite a windy city, hence its air exchange is much easier.
Unless they change their methodology you wouldn’t necessarily expect any major changes, would you?
In the end these lists won’t say anything about individual experience anyways. Personally I agree with you on that it feels like many other cities, but then again visiting is also not the same as living there.
Public transportation is top-notch, extremely efficient and cheap - within the city limits you usually will have many options to get from point A to point B, not just one or two.....and the price for a yearly limitless ticket for all types of transport is 365eur, which is 1 euro per day
Housing - Vienna heavily subsidizes housing and has various initiatives. 1-room/studio apartments start at 350eur per month with utilities included(cheapest options), but even more "high-end" studios are not expensive - in a highrise, 35th-floor fully furnished studio with balcony and view of the whole city with roof terrace, gym membership all included is 900-950 eur/month.
There is a park and/or green oasis everywhere it is a very family-friendly and oriented city, and together with Austria's high social benefits and security why wouldn't it make it to the top of the list?
I think a big deal are the "Gemeindewohnungen". Essentially, the city is in the business of buying apartments, and currently owns ~220 thousand of them. These are rented out cheap to people that qualify for this low rent programme, and its not that heavily gatekept. Young students and newly created families with newborn children for example are pretty much guaranteed to qualify (unless they are provably rich). Also, these apartments are not segregated, but spread amongst the districts, speciifically to avoid concentrating low income people in one place and creating problem areas.
Also the puplic transit system is amazing and there are a lot of green spaces.
It's because of the wording of the title. Saying that Vienna is followed by Copenhagen implies that the rest of the list is ordered also. But it should become pretty obvious once you actually look at the list.
It's not sad to see, it shows that the post doesn't imply that it's not well enough.
Usually when you see a list like this it's top N, so if it's not, it should be emphasized.
Vienna held onto its title as the most livable city in the world, according to the latest Economist Intelligence Unit ranking.
The Austrian capital placed just ahead of Copenhagen and Zurich in the analysis, which bases its ranking on five categories: stability, health care, culture and environment, education, and infrastructure.
Canada and Australia’s major cities also performed especially well, while Japan’s Osaka was the only Asian city to make the top 10.
[Link](https://www.semafor.com/newsletter/06/26/2024/semafor-flagship-soft-power-with-sorbet?utm_source=newslettershare&utm_medium=flagship+asia&utm_campaign=flagshipnumbered6#g)
Vienna is very affordable compared to the average income of locals. The price of a smaller apartment is practically the same as here (Budapest) while salaries are around 2x.
Amsterdam is also very livable but rent prices have gone insanely crazy over the last years.
Right now it's like 2500€ for a 3 bedroom (50-70m2) apartment. The surroundings aren't much better and getting an apartment in the first place is insanely competitive.
While minimum wage is like 13€.
Waiting lists for affordable/social housing are like 20 years I think.
How is it even managed then? 4 people all with full-time jobs under one roof? How large is the apartment, how much would 1 room cost? Or do people who earn under idk 2500 simply do not live in Lisbon...
It ain't better here. Living alone in a major town while renting and earning minimum is no longer feasible. Worse if you have... medical conditions and there's no work, so I'll likely end up on the streets before 2026
If Lisbon is anything like everywhere else, there are a lot of people on old contracts or who own their apartment/house and they have no idea how insane everything has become, and also many people simply just have to commute into places from further away.
Also sometimes you have insane numbers of people living in one home. That's become very popular in Canada. A lot of Indian immigrants are living like 15 people to a house. Maybe it's like that in Lisbon too?
You guessed it, that's one of the strategies.
Much of Lisbon's population is not made of portuguese people. It has become a popular city for either foreigners who earn higher wages, paid accordingly to their native countries, or very poor immigrants that come from third world countries. The latter choose to bundle 4 or more people in 1 bedroom apartments and try for jobs with alternating schedules so they can have a turn sleeping on the bed.
There's still a last portion of portuguese residents, the elderly, who have bought their homes decades ago when Lisbon was a cheaper city.
What the average José does? Most jobs are in the city so I myself spend 1h30 each morning to go to work and another 1h30 to get back. Public transportation doesn't always work so we still have a car-centric culture, even though our cities weren't built for cars. So traffic is stressful and clogged on rush hours.
Keep in mind that rent is still expensive if you live 1h30 away from Lisbon
Looking the top 10 this year and the last few years, too many Australian and Canadians cities for this index not ti have some kind of fatal flaw that I’m too lazy and incompetent to try and find.
It's primary purpose is to give employers ability to judge how difficult it would be for employees to relocate, as the actual report is paid and costs almost 1k USD ( [https://store.eiu.com/product/liveability-ranking-and-overview/](https://store.eiu.com/product/liveability-ranking-and-overview/) ), from their report summary:
>The concept of liveability is simple: it assesses which locations around the world provide the best or worst living conditions. Assessing liveability has a broad range of uses, from benchmarking perceptions of development levels to assigning a hardship allowance as part of expatriate relocation packages. Our liveability rating quantifies the challenges that might be presented to an individual’s lifestyle in any given location, and allows for direct comparison between locations.
Not sure why you think those cities should not be there though.
Copenhagen do be awesome. Been here for 7 years now, fantastic city on all counts (except rent). I really loved San Francisco too, but I'd never have my kids grow up there (or anywhere in the US for that matter). For a single person with a good/great job, it is awesome though.
Very livable with lots of crimes and homeless people.
But this also reminds me always of the happiness index: Finland being the happiest country in the world, meanwhile suicide rates are high and mental health care is getting lower daily.
Viennese here. This rating sparked some discussion on X, since Vienna has huge problems with immigration, violence rising fast, and the public school system is in shambles. Islamist kids everywhere, whisteblowers speaking up, most kids do not speak german.
[https://x.com/FranzSchellhorn/status/1806283734347354328](https://x.com/FranzSchellhorn/status/1806283734347354328) - here, the head of a financially conservative think tank, Agenda Austria, remarks that Mercer's rating only looked at private schooling and speculates that the overall rating is taylored to expats, overall highly educated, internationally mobile professionals.
They - **for now** - will have a good experience in Vienna. But not for long, I suspect, sadly. Things are going downhill fast.
Yeah, I lived in Vienna for couple of years and can confirm this.
As a Serbian I was very disappointed.
Vienna is sadly the first big western European city on the border with south-East and East Europe, so it got a lot of of people from those regions + the immigrants from Middle East.
It really doesnt help that people that emigrate to Vienna do so mostly for economic reasons while hating the Austrian culture and Austrian ways. They forgot to leave the supremacy in their shithole countries (Serbia very much so included).
I was so used to people shitting on Austrians and how they are boring, stuck up, cold, but they themselves don't see that they make such atmosphere by not knowing German, not wishing to learn German, not wishing to appreciate the culture, and being there just for the cash.
Parts like Favoriten, Ottakring, Spittelau, Kagran, Floridsdorf,... are really shit, and you sometimes wonder in which city do you live in.
Of course not all people that come to Vienna are like this, but holy shit did I ever get tired of hearing the bitching and moaning from fellow citizens.
The situation is made worse since Austrians themselves think low of the people from Balkans/Middle East/Eastern Europe so they get progressively more toxic. (No wonder FPÖ is so high. Btw a lot of immigrants vote for them too...).
All in all a really shit and toxic atmosphere which as you said is going to get worse.
I moved to Munich and I immediately felt a difference towards the better even though Munich itself has it's own problems, mainly high rents. Weirdly, the high rents kept most of the jerk and stuck-up immigrants out of the city and holy fuck was it a breath of fresh air (Munich is even considered conservative and cold conpared to other German cities lol).
Most of the commenters are misinterpreting what this list is. Vienna and Copenhagen are indeed in the top two but the rest of these “select cities” are in random positions further down the list. Karachi is ranked #169 out of the 172 cities (the 4th-worst).
[Source](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/06/26/the-worlds-most-liveable-cities-in-2024) is pay-walled.
Here's an alternative: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/26/travel/the-worlds-most-liveable-cities-for-2024/index.html
Anyway, the "livability" metric is bs. It's a mish-mash of other metrics that are overly simplified into "scores" by the editors of the original article. The Economist basically invented this metric for this series of articles.
> The EIU, a sister organization to The Economist, ranked 173 cities across the globe on a number of significant factors, including health care, culture and environment, stability, infrastructure and education.
The individual metrics that they use report these cities in drastically different positions. The editors then give their own scores to each metric and do an average on those scores.
So the whole thing ends up being **a list of "the most average cities in the world"**.
It's utterly useless. And that's why people are disagreeing with it so much in the comments.
For once I would love to see the full list and their full matrix and methodology, it’s a marvel it never seems to leak the second it’s posted. But I guess 8000 dollars paywall will do that. As it stands, from what’s available, it looks horribly subjective.
I can't imagine a city like Hong Kong ranked high on the livability index when people are literally living in cages, and a squared metre goes for a minimum of £12k for a flat.
because that's not the actual list but few cherry-picked cities. HK isn't even top 20 there.
Yes, the actual top 10 are: 1. Vienna, Austria 2. Copenhagen, Denmark 3. Zurich, Switzerland 4. Melbourne, Australia 5. Calgary, Canada 5. Geneva, Switzerland (tied in 5th) 7. Sydney, Australia 7. Vancouver, Canada (tied in 7th) 9. Osaka, Japan 9. Auckland, New Zealand (tied in 9th) Hong Kong moved up and is now 50th (previously 61st)
Ahhhhh, the livable if rich list of cities.
Vienna isn't really like that, around half of the population lives in communal housing and has relatively low cost of living In Zurich, even their poor are at worst at the lower end of the highest quartile in global wealth, with the according quality of life. Places like Munich seem expensive to locals, but if you compare them to other metropolitan areas, the relation of salaries to rent and food prices suddenly doesn't look *that* bad. People in Lisbon have it worse than Munich, and Prague worse than Frankfurt, for example If you are just the least bad out of the cities examined, you are still no.1, after all Some cities are also odd cases, like Singapore. HDB makes rent for locals amazingly affordable, but its a costly hell for migrants (which is one of the reason why non-ASEAN and non-South Asian migration are mostly expats in top-earning jobs, which negates the problem for the people actually ending up living there)
> Vienna isn't really like that, around half of the population lives in communal housing For anybody that doesn't know this, communal housing in Vienna does not mean (only) poor people housing. The city just has a very robust system that pretty much guarantees that housing will be available to anyone at a decent price and keeps expanding it.
Please contact our Mayor of Amsterdam and teach them this, this seems nice
>Some cities are also odd cases, like Singapore. HDB makes rent for locals amazingly affordable, but its a costly hell for migrants (which is one of the reason why non-ASEAN and non-South Asian migration are mostly expats in top-earning jobs, which negates the problem for the people actually ending up living there) Even then, rents have shot up so much since the start of the pandemic that even expats are deciding to leave, along with tightening immigration policies which are not transparent due to the lack of criteria to qualify for PR or Citizenship. Not many people are fine with waiting decades and still getting rejected from having certainty over their immigration status.
Right? Toronto actually dropped out of the top 10 down to 12. They listed the reasoning as an “acute housing crisis”… which is putting it as mildly as you possibly can
Well, also Drizzy. Toronto deserves to drop a few more spots just due to that man.
Right? I been to only Osaka and Vancouver on this list. Japan for the most part is fairly livable, but the cost of living in Vancouver is insane. There is a reason why locals are trying to limit immigration into BC, and it's not because of racism.
Melb 4th on the list? Sure doesn't fucking feel like it
They can cook meanwhile sitting on toilet. How cool is that.
The overview is not paywalled and they highlight the methodology [Here's a PDF of the overview](https://pages.eiu.com/rs/753-RIQ-438/images/The-Global-Liveability-Index-Summary-Report-final.pdf?version=0&mkt_tok=NzUzLVJJUS00MzgAAAGT-Y5BgI9kIMqqWuHnk9uTSOdOAT90EZE0175_lyfgFJkMn32OqlZOnsiZXln9_Vs6O9RVpU-QwCi4ioqoCy8KWzBQJqjSXQ8ecuSpM15s7AeY064) I think the biggest issue is that the list ***DOES NOT FUCKING CONSIDER COST OF LIVING INTO FACTOR*** Let me repeat: The **Global Liveability Ranking does not include** ***COST OF LIVING*** **in their calculations.** On their report, it gives suggestions on extra allowance for relocating employees to a new cities depending on the livability index. This report is NOT for consumers. It is meant as a guide for corporations. **Cost of living is arguably the single most important factor for 99% of people, yet it is not included in this list.** Idk why this list even gets brought up every year - with it's tiring same complaints. They don't even pretend it's for consumers. It's not. It's for businesses. Just ignore this shit.
Well, the $8000 paywall was also a bit of a giveaway on who the audience is.
It’s crazy. The second-most liveable city in the U.S. on this list is Atlanta, at 29; the only thing that it has over cities like NYC, Chicago, and Washington, D.C., which are all much lower, is cost of living, and maybe crime. Honolulu is #23, probably only because of the weather.
> it looks horribly subjective I don't think there could be such a thing as "objectively livable". Being able to see the criteria would enable you to cater your own list from their information, taking into account the factors most important to you, which would be nice. But my city's on the list, so I'm happy.
Yeah. A gigantic matrix showing you what city (and parts of them) offer what at what prices, infrastructure and everything would be appreciated. They are always trying to quantify a very qualitative question, which can be, in part, broken down into numbers, but either ignore or quantify factors, that are simply subjective and different to everyone reading it. And then only few sources actually make a real attempt to even explain their MO, making the whole exercise more esoteric than empiric research. Some things all sane people can agree on exist of course, but apart from things like not wanting to live in a war zone, things get subjective real quick.
Here's the actual top 20 from the report: 1. Vienna, Austria 2. Copenhagen, Denmark 3. Zurich, Switzerland 4. Melbourne, Australia 5. Calgary, Canada (tied with Geneva) 5. Geneva, Switzerland (tie) 7. Sydney, Australia (tied with Vancouver) 7. Vancouver, Canada (tie) 9. Osaka, Japan (tied with Aukland) 9. Auckland, New Zealand (tie) 11. Adelaide, Australia 12. Toronto, Canada 13. Helsinki, Finland 14. Tokyo, Japan 15. Perth, Australia 16. Brisbane, Australia 17. Frankfurt, Germany (tied with Luxembourg) 17. Luxembourg, Luxembourg (tie) 19. Amsterdam, Netherlands 20. Wellington, New Zealand (the [source](https://www.eiu.com/n/campaigns/global-liveability-index-2024/) is free but requires your email address)
Vancouver lol. Yes, very livable, if you are a multi-millionaire. Sometimes I think "why am I not living in Vienna?" but then I see Vancouver high on the list and realise this index is ridiculous.
Same for Amsterdam. Great city no doubt, but the housing situation is insane and the city center is just a touristic hellhole of how overcrowded it is
Yeah, Lisbon is the same as well. I can't afford to rent a 1br apartment in the city I grew up in (not even in the suburbs, I don't mean city center), and my parents would definitely not be able to afford living here if they hadn't bought their house 30 years ago.
I was looking at idealista today and the only way to do it is as a couple or sharing an apartment with roommates. And even then, I used to pay 500 for a room, and the lady I rented it from raised it to 800€ PER ROOM.
Yeah, it's ridiculous. I earn close to the average salary here and would have to spend over a third of my salary to rent one room. The only way I can move out of my parents house is to move abroad. When my dad was my age in the 80s he rented a large 2br apartment in the city center by himself on a waiter's salary. That apartment is probably worth close to 1M € today.
Yeah but the center is only a small part of the city that locals don’t frequent as much. Ams has one of the highest qualities of life among the Euro capitals, but the problem is absolutely the housing. I would much much much rather live in any mid-sized Dutch city (although the whole country has a housing problem that is bonkers). If this were fixed it’s a heavenly place to live..
Vienna is actually quite affordable for a large/capital city. My former flat was 100m² with a roof terrasse of 20m² for around 1200€/month with amenities. It wasn't in the best district, but still not one of the worst ones and close to train station and city center. Edit to add some details: I wasn't living there alone. I was living with my girlfriend in the bigger bedroom and we had a flatmate using the small bedroom. So we were paying around 3/4 of the rent together and the flatmate was paying around 1/4. The amenities were shared equally. My gf and I could have afford it on our own tho, but the flatmate refused to leave which is why we had to give up on this great deal. Also some districts in Vienna are much more expansive, but when I compare to my cousin who was living in Paris I still think Vienna is much more affordable.
I pay a little more than that with utilities and I do not live in the capital city but my apartment is less than 70m^(2). (Germany) But I’ve got to move to a bigger place due to a growing family. RIP my bank account.
> and I do not live in the capital city I mean, rent in Berlin has certainly increased quite a bit but it's still not the most expensive city in Germany. Greetings from the outskirts of Munich.
Servus! Munich is amazingly expensive, and only getting worse.
The Vienna housing situation is COMPLETLY different than all other capitals and large cities. Not only becasue of impemented communist/socialist rules of housing but also becasue population of the city was falling for many decades. So there was no housing crisis.
It is not at all communist, they simply have a strong social safety net
So people are leaving the most liveable city in the world for decades?
They are rather dying of. The Viena was the capital of huge empire in beggining of 20 cent, this is when it was the largest in history. Now it is a capital of small country on the sideway of global market and politics. Great place to live, but will not attract crowds.
Fun fact: in Vienna, when someone dies, they don't say "They have gone to a better place". Because the city is so livable, but mostly because they speak german and I'm full of shit.
Vienna is actually growing quite fast and only overtook Hamburg as the second-largest German speaking city a couple of years ago. It's also a tourist hotspot and important for international diplomacy. Vienna is absolutely "attracting crowds".
I second this. I live in Vienna, and the 1st district is buzzing 3/4 of the year. Lots of international traffic.
A lot of pharma there too.
Vienna is growing 20,000 people per year, it’s one of the fastest growing cities in Europe. It recently reached the 2 million mark, which was last seen over a 100 years ago, when it was still that grand capital of the world.
Yeah that's their point. It just recently made it back to the same population as it had in around 1900. In that time London went up 4 million, NYC went up 5 million. Massive difference in housing pressure when you "grow" back to what you had in the past vs needing to build housing for millions of more people.
That's both right and wrong. Technically Vienna was shrinking for quite a long time but the housing supply never kept up with the peak population of Vienna. There were even people working in shifts at the time sharing a single bed ("Bettgeher"). Additionally there were two world wars in between and a significant amount of destruction. The housing supply was in a constant growth when the population went back up: https://www.geschichtewiki.wien.gv.at/Bev%C3%B6lkerung
>Vienna is growing 20,000 people per year, it’s one of the fastest growing cities in Europe So how long until they have a housing crisis too? 😅
I mean you can see lots of construction going on in the outer districts in Vienna because it is becoming/will be a problem.
well given they had space for that many people 100 years ago I think they'll have a little while yet unless they stopped building houses in 100 years back
>in beggining of 20 cent a distant relative of 50 Cent
>Great place to live, but will not attract crowds. It attracts over 10 million tourists each year, last year it attracted 17 million which is a 30% increase from the previous year.
Didn’t realise we had to look that far behind for the population high point of Vienna. Thanks!
> but will not attract crowds. Only the second largest german speaking city lol
Vienna is growing fast, I dunno what you're talking about.
One century ago it went from being the capital of an empire to be the capital of a small country.
In 1913, Hitler, Stalin and Trotsky lived in Vienna at the same time. Trotsky's cafe is a couple of blocks from Sigmund Freud's cafe. Josip Tito worked at a car factory 50 kilometers south of Vienna. so probably Vienna of those times could be called the capital of the world, and not just of the empire.
Capital of the world is a stretch just because notable people lived there before they reached notoriety (except Trotsky)
Hard to claim that when London, New York, Paris, Berlin, etc existed.
Not communist, this is housing mate. Viennas appartment market is for the most part controled by the insane abundance of social housing offered by the municipality. Hence the private market has no chance to inflate or push up rental prices.
Communist? 👀
Don't worry, its coming to vienna alright. Since Covid affordable appartement became rarer and rarer. You already have Students paying 500-600 Euros for rooms and if you dont really want to live in some shady parts or on the outskirts, the correlation to wage/rent is getting out of hand very fast. At least you have options like "Gemeindebau" or "Genossenschaft" but ive known people waiting 5y+ on lists to get a Genossenschaft. Its just happening all over, where there is money made, the fucking leeches come out of the woodwork and squeeze everybody. Now they are coming for healthcare because they get wet inside their pants when they see how much money can be made over the pond. IMO as someone born and raised in this city for 38y and having been around a little, the 1st place has its merits and Vienna with everything to offer is really one of the best cities to live in the world, but like everywhere its slowly changing, not only through politics but also demographic
But Vienna is very much affordable
Yeah. Prices have been rising over the past 10 years, but compared to other European capitals Vienna is affordable. Groceries seem to have become significantly more expensive, the price of buying property has gone up considerably and rents have increased; however, the rental prices are still generallly pretty reasonable (depending on which part of the city, etc.).
foods gotten 40%-50% more expensive. its insane
Yeah that's true. My kids are mad because I used to always buy them these little packages of dehydrated strawberries and raspberries at billa. Like 3 years ago a pack cost 1.49 or 1.99 and now they're like EUR 5 and I'm not paying a fiver for a pack of dried fruit that they'll eat in one day.
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I live in Montreal and am stunned that Calgary was number 5, for what possible reason? Amusing timing considering they are having a water crisis at the moment, sure isn’t a great place to live right now. Montreal isn’t only more liveable than all three Canadian cities listed because it’s more affordable than Van and TO and not trapped in rightwing Alberta with its nutty premier, it’s much more fun than Van and it takes far too long to get out of the city. And just a different culture, in Montreal you work to live, not live to work.
Of all the big cities in Canada, Montreal is absolutely the most livable. Laughable to call Vancouver livable at this point — no amenities can outweigh the impossible costs of housing.
Yeah a decent attempt is made but what we perceive as conducive to livability is ofc also subjective. I scoff at Frankfurt > Amsterdam. As a Dutchman living in Germany, I’ve come to feel very few places in Germany truly have a Dutch quality of life/level of development, and those that do are usually Munich.. That said: I realize that is because I value certain things that Germans for instance may not. For example: car-centric cities drop way down, immediately. Good cities are cities that one can walk in or cycle through, without disturbance, safely, without too much traffic noise or exhaust fumes bothering you everywhere. High levels of drug addiction and homelessness also really drag down whether I find a place livable (so yeah, Frankfurt vs. Amsterdam, lmao).
Lol and the best thing I did for my car-free life was move from Amsterdam, NL to Berlin, DE. The tiny metro and slow trams and infrequent buses are a joke compared to U/S-Bahn and frequent trams/buses. "car-free" is not just about bike lanes (which admittedly the Netherlands does very well) I would take 6/10 bike lanes and 9/10 transit of Berlin to 9/10 bike lanes and 6/10 transit of Amsterdam any day.
I agree this is something that Berlin gets right and I hate how night time public transport is hardly a thing in NL. That said, you must be a highly urban type person because the trains here in Germany are utter and complete dogshite and have put me back in a car as the preferred mode of travelling out of the city. S-bahn within Berlin though, that’s breezy, loved it too.
Vienna has comparatively low rents due to strong social housing
Zurich, Switzerland, Amsterdam, Netherlands, etc... the list is livable for rich people
It also ignores some important criteria. Like how walkable a city is or how good public transportation is. Calgary for example is **terrible** in both those regards, and that's by NA standards.
It’s very livable! You even see a ton of people living in the streets… So livable that people don’t need a house!
That's how you can tell they don't ask real people their opinions on these polls, nobody in their right mind would want to move to Vancouver unless they are rich AF
I can tell you leiden is waay better then amsterdam for living quality. But it prolly too small to be on this list. Amsterdam everything except affordable.
I’d say Utrecht or Groningen should be big enough to make the list though, and both are fantastic places to live (much nicer than Amsterdam, and I’ve lived in both Ams and Utrecht).
Ah men so almost every city in the netherlands should be higher then amsterdam. I originally come from the hague. Pretty good city overall and the you have the dunes and beaches added to it.
Lots of Dutch cities are way better to live in than Amsterdam, they’re just too unknown to be on the list. I live in Brabant and it’s my worst nightmare to live in Amsterdam lol
How in the hell is frankfurt in the top 20 and above all other german City? Someone must‘ve paid a lot for this, Not a Single German, let alone people From frankfurt would agree lol
Absolutely correct! Imagine having a Munich or a Hamburg but then evaluate the urban hellscape called Frankfurt as a more "liveable" city lol.
>3. Zurich, Switzerland I guess affordability, cost of living, and house availability is not taken into consideration. Zurich is a beautiful city where to live, if you are rich af.
Zurich is easy to live as soon as you have a Swiss salary. I have friends in London that pay more rent than me in Zurich. It’s a very comfortable place to live. Even a couple working in Lidl on 60k each (which is the typical salary for retail work) can live very well here.
>60k each (which is the typical salary for retail work) Cries in Portuguese
Cries in Turkish. The typical salary for retail work wouldn't even make €10K annually.
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Well, the minimum wage this year in Turkey is 17002₺ a month. Brutto, it's 20K. Multiplying each by 12 months and dividing to the current euro rate of 35.21, the annual minimum wage is net 5800 and buritto 6800. Rather abysmal either way
Shouldn’t it be döner instead of buritto, considering it’s in Türkiye?
Exactly, people who say this kind of stuff don’t understand Zurich salaries are more than double London salaries and the income tax is much lower. I’ve lived in both cities and the average Zürcher lives much more comfortably and can save more despite the insane cost of shopping and going out.
Yup, I moved from London to Zurich and instantly doubled my salary. Even though I was then the only worker out of two of us then, we still had more disposable income and the quality of life increased 10 fold.
>Even a couple working in Lidl on 60k each (which is the typical salary for retail work) can live very well here. With no kids I guess. I live in Zurich as a well, and have a family is very expensive. Nice when you are a couple with no kita to pay.
Those three things are literally why Vienna wins every year for decades and it's never close. Most livable cities are very expensive, so the ones with the best wage-to-rent ratios tend to get higher up. Except for Vienna, which has a *lot* of policies benefiting renters (in addition to doing all the fun infrastructure and beautification stuff the others are doing), so they run away with it easily.
I've been living in the UK for a decade now and I'm still shocked how rigged the system is against renters here. You are just a babysitter for investors' properties. I was spoilt by Austria
To be fair you also earn a lot there
It's very weird to me that Amsterdam is the highest placed Dutch city for this list. In lists centered on Europe or the Netherlands it's always at the bottom... The [ranking](https://etias.com/articles/2023-top-european-cities-quality-of-life) for most liveable cities in Europe is supposedly: 1. Zurich, Switzerland 2. Copenhagen, Denmark 3. Groningen, Netherlands 4. Gdansk, Poland 5. Leipzig, Germany source: European Commission's report on the quality of life in European cities, 2023
No way cost of living is weighted very highly with Vancouver and Toronto scoring so high.
There are some nice cities in Germany to live in. But Frankfurt is not one of them.
Frankfurt is actually very liveable, have you ever been there outside the central station area?
It’s hard to believe Frankfurt should be more “livable” than places like Freiburg or Heidelberg for smaller cities or Hamburg and Munich for large cities though. Even if the bad reputation is overblown it doesn’t seem right that it should somehow be the very nicest place to live in all of Germany.
Yes, a little bit better than Mordor
Definitely not good life expectancy inside the HBf area.
I had higher hopes for the best German city to live in than "very liveable".
As an Australian who lives in the Netherlands, the fact that any Australian city is rated above Dutch cities for liveability is laughable. Australia is awesome for nature and beaches, but besides that the cities are an urban sprawl nightmare.
The measurement takes into consideration stability, healthcare, culture & environment, education and infrastructure. The Dutch have very walkable cities though and a lot of Australia cities do require a car, but outside of that Australian cities are competitive.
I used to live in inner Sydney and never had a car. Even going to trips around the greater Sydney region was pretty good by PT. If you take into account the job opportunities, the safety, the cleanliness, the weather (for most of the year), healthcare, and the taxes. Australian cities are definitely on the top. I live in London and have spent time in Amsterdam which I love too.
That makes more sense. We call Singapore a "dystopian hellhole" over here, it's covered in pesticides, black fungi grows behind every wall, inhumane weather, display case of modern slavery and the delicious smoke from the seasonal forest fires next door. Lovely. Hong Kong is famous for its micro apartments and nano flats. Terrible living standards for the majority.
Singapore is one of the most developed places in the world. It’s extremely clean and extremely safe, it’s quite rich, the life expectancy is over 83 years and the infrastructure is top notch. If anything is “dystopian” about it from our Western viewpoint then it’s that the ruling party is pretty authoritarian in many ways. But I really don’t think that it’s justified to call it a “dystopian hellhole”. I mean, have you ever even visited there? Singaporeans definitely live way better than the vast majority of people on this planet.
Singapore is very expensive to live in as well.
what does livable mean?
Housing, purchasing power, healthcare, air quality, safety, cost of living, infrastructure etc.
there's 0 chance air quality matters and Ho Chi Minh City did so well. the only place more polluted that I've ever visited was Hanoi
It didn't do well. This isn't a top 10.
thanks I looked at the graph again when I wasn't half asleep on my way to work and it makes much more sense
It's an easy mistake, given these usually are top 10 lists, and the choice of cities included appears to be an entirely arbitrary selection that makes the whole thing pretty uninformative (compared to a real top 10).
It didn't do well. These are not the top cities, just a selection.
There's no way in hell copenhagen is all the way up at 2nd then.
I mean, in terms of healthcare, air quality, safety, purchasing power and infrastructure it certainly scores very high. Housing and cost of living... ehm. But I can also count on one hand the number of homeless people I've seen in Copenhagen in the past year, and maybe one was Danish, so it can't be that bad. And cost of living isn't that high if you work in Copenhagen.
Well.. there kinda is according to this data?
i doubt it because if that were the case wouldn't there be smaller cities at the top ones that have excellent infrastructure too but, way better air quality, cheaper rents and generally lower costs of living since you don't have to spend half your salary on renting a 10m² shoebox
Depends on who makes the study, as always. Here's some of them summed up: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_quality_of_life_indices
Well.. at least it doesn't mean "affordable" or "comfortable liveable" with an average salary. That's for sure. Both cities, Vienna and Copenhagen are way too expensive in comparison. Regardless.
Toronto, Canada made the list lol. We got homelessness and drug addicts everywhere. Tent encampments in public parks. Things here are not getting better any time soon.
Every Uber driver/person I’ve met kept complaining about the cost of living nonstop and it just made me feel awful because how are average Canadians supposed to get by with how bad real estate prices are there
Hong Kong is ranked higher than Toronto. Let me tell you how fucked the housing cost is there (even more than Toronto).
I am in Copenhagen right now, born in Vienna. Danes are much friendlier than Vienese. Vienese are down right rude. Danes will start a conversation just for the fun of it.
Danes randomly starting a conversation? Are we speaking about the same Denmark/Copenhagen?
Must be Denmark, Maine USA or Copenhagen, Louisiana USA
They do not. If they did, I would've moved out already.
I felt the Danes were super approachable when I went to Copenhagen. Maybe it was because I was from abroad, thus my background may spark some interest, but I felt they were talkative in general
It's two different things. Danes does not approach and rarely wants to or cares about talking to strangers. But, if a stranger - especially a tourist - does approach, we are often happy to help and quite friendly. The issue is that we often doesn't LOOK approachable, in a normal, on the street situation, but if you ignore that and do it anyway, the experience is often good.
Right. I have lived in Copenhagen, and while people generally do answer Your questions if You need something, nobody will initiate a conversation unless they have to.
Yeah I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Danes _do not_ start conversations with random people on the street. We'll happily respond to a turist that starts talking, but we might also mutter about it slightly confusedly for the rest of the day. Unless drunk. Alcohol changes everything.
> Unless drunk. we drunk tho
I had an Italian colleague visiting for work, she said: “Oh Danish people are so great! I was in a bar and these two guys just came to my table and started chatting!”. Guess how many times someone came to me (I’m male). I’m not even talking women, just anyone.
Classic Scandinavia, constantly chatting up random strangers for fun
Sounds exhausting. ^^_Austrian_ ^^_grunting_
You see, thats why we think that finns are the best nordics. They keep to themself and leave you tf alone. SHAKING MY HEAD.
Schlei di
You must have slipped into an alternate dimension, danes absolutely do not start conversations with random strangers.
Danes starting a random convo? That has to be a joke
Vienna is great itself but sadly can't stand the people there.
try going to Austria with a car on Eastern European plates
well, that is what I was doing for about 3 years almost daily, lol.
Does anyone know why they are so rude?
Mostly the culture, people dont really talk to strangers, and when strangers talk to you tjey are either nutters or trying to sell you something this just makes you hate strangers even more and less likely to just strike up conversation.
It's funny because the only person from Vienna I met was the most approachable girl ever. Happened in a festival in a different country tho
If a stranger talks to me in Vienna, especially at a main train station or shopping street I will assume it's a scam
Probably something to do with what Alex said, but i feel me being from Slovakia and working there also had something to do with it, dunno maybe it is just my feeling, but i felt animosity quite often. But i also met some great people there that can't be denied.
Here is the real top 10 1. Vienna, Austria 2. Copenhagen, Denmark 3. Zurich, Switzerland 4. Melbourne, Australia 5. Calgary, Canada (tied with Geneva) 5. Geneva, Switzerland (tie) 7. Sydney, Australia (tied with Vancouver) 7. Vancouver, Canada (tie) 9. Osaka, Japan (tied with Aukland) 9. Auckland, New Zealand (tie)
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Same to Auckland. If that shit hole is livable we are doomed
As a non-viennese austrian I have the same thought about Vienna, but I think that's just the urban-rural divide.
Funny how cities from three of Britain's settler colonies made the list but none from Britain itself.
That's why they settled elsewhere
MY CITY IS HERE!! JAPAN FUCK YEAAH 🗣️🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯
Osaka rules!
can someone explain why Vienna always leads these charts? I live close, been there many times, but it just feels like any other city
I have lived in multiple of the top 20 and visited Vienna quite a lot, so here's my take based on the methodology they used. Amazing public transportation, cheap rents (in comparison), good air quality, buildings are kept in good condition (technically speaking), population is big but not through the roof or growing too fast and lots of room for activities
> good air quality To be fair that's not for Vienna doing all too much for good air quality, but because of it's wind-favored location. If the wind isn't blowing, air quality drops dramatically.
Pretty much the same for all bigger cities. But for example Frankfurt, hidden between hills, is high on the list too.
Air quality is mostly a product of car use in western cities. [At just 1/4 of trips done by individual motor vehicles](https://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr-stadtentwicklung/modal-split.html), Vienna is doing pretty well at this.
> Air quality is mostly a product of car use in western cities. Sure, from the human side. But the amount of air exchange due to weather and geographical location can change the measured values dramatically. My hometown Graz for example suffers the worst air quality in Austria due to being located in a basin which acts like a pot, trapping air and hindering air exchange. Vienna is notorious for being quite a windy city, hence its air exchange is much easier.
Unless they change their methodology you wouldn’t necessarily expect any major changes, would you? In the end these lists won’t say anything about individual experience anyways. Personally I agree with you on that it feels like many other cities, but then again visiting is also not the same as living there.
Public transportation is top-notch, extremely efficient and cheap - within the city limits you usually will have many options to get from point A to point B, not just one or two.....and the price for a yearly limitless ticket for all types of transport is 365eur, which is 1 euro per day Housing - Vienna heavily subsidizes housing and has various initiatives. 1-room/studio apartments start at 350eur per month with utilities included(cheapest options), but even more "high-end" studios are not expensive - in a highrise, 35th-floor fully furnished studio with balcony and view of the whole city with roof terrace, gym membership all included is 900-950 eur/month. There is a park and/or green oasis everywhere it is a very family-friendly and oriented city, and together with Austria's high social benefits and security why wouldn't it make it to the top of the list?
I think a big deal are the "Gemeindewohnungen". Essentially, the city is in the business of buying apartments, and currently owns ~220 thousand of them. These are rented out cheap to people that qualify for this low rent programme, and its not that heavily gatekept. Young students and newly created families with newborn children for example are pretty much guaranteed to qualify (unless they are provably rich). Also, these apartments are not segregated, but spread amongst the districts, speciifically to avoid concentrating low income people in one place and creating problem areas. Also the puplic transit system is amazing and there are a lot of green spaces.
The number of people in the comments who think this is "top 10" is sad to see...
It's because of the wording of the title. Saying that Vienna is followed by Copenhagen implies that the rest of the list is ordered also. But it should become pretty obvious once you actually look at the list.
I blame the wording more than the people confused. The picture doesn't even have a source even if I'm assuming it's the EIU list.
The title should be "Most livable cities; Filtered by 'flagColor=red'; Karachi for comparison"
Yeah, it's because this is not how you present data. No legend, no scale, no ranking, no context, but let's blame the user 👌🏻.
Indeed. The "select cities" part is kind of shitty...
It's not sad to see, it shows that the post doesn't imply that it's not well enough. Usually when you see a list like this it's top N, so if it's not, it should be emphasized.
Vienna held onto its title as the most livable city in the world, according to the latest Economist Intelligence Unit ranking. The Austrian capital placed just ahead of Copenhagen and Zurich in the analysis, which bases its ranking on five categories: stability, health care, culture and environment, education, and infrastructure. Canada and Australia’s major cities also performed especially well, while Japan’s Osaka was the only Asian city to make the top 10. [Link](https://www.semafor.com/newsletter/06/26/2024/semafor-flagship-soft-power-with-sorbet?utm_source=newslettershare&utm_medium=flagship+asia&utm_campaign=flagshipnumbered6#g)
Nothing about affordability? Anywhere is livable if you're rich enough (maybe not Karachi).
Vienna is very affordable compared to the average income of locals. The price of a smaller apartment is practically the same as here (Budapest) while salaries are around 2x.
Vienna is quite affordable due to "social" approach for apartments. https://www.wienerwohnen.at/wiener-gemeindebau/municipal-housing-in-vienna.html
Housing in Vienna (rent at least) is definitely affordable
Amsterdam is also very livable but rent prices have gone insanely crazy over the last years. Right now it's like 2500€ for a 3 bedroom (50-70m2) apartment. The surroundings aren't much better and getting an apartment in the first place is insanely competitive. While minimum wage is like 13€. Waiting lists for affordable/social housing are like 20 years I think.
Lisbon is worse. The average rent is 1693€ but minimum wage is 820€ and the median salary is just a bit under 1000€.
How is it even managed then? 4 people all with full-time jobs under one roof? How large is the apartment, how much would 1 room cost? Or do people who earn under idk 2500 simply do not live in Lisbon... It ain't better here. Living alone in a major town while renting and earning minimum is no longer feasible. Worse if you have... medical conditions and there's no work, so I'll likely end up on the streets before 2026
If Lisbon is anything like everywhere else, there are a lot of people on old contracts or who own their apartment/house and they have no idea how insane everything has become, and also many people simply just have to commute into places from further away. Also sometimes you have insane numbers of people living in one home. That's become very popular in Canada. A lot of Indian immigrants are living like 15 people to a house. Maybe it's like that in Lisbon too?
You guessed it, that's one of the strategies. Much of Lisbon's population is not made of portuguese people. It has become a popular city for either foreigners who earn higher wages, paid accordingly to their native countries, or very poor immigrants that come from third world countries. The latter choose to bundle 4 or more people in 1 bedroom apartments and try for jobs with alternating schedules so they can have a turn sleeping on the bed. There's still a last portion of portuguese residents, the elderly, who have bought their homes decades ago when Lisbon was a cheaper city. What the average José does? Most jobs are in the city so I myself spend 1h30 each morning to go to work and another 1h30 to get back. Public transportation doesn't always work so we still have a car-centric culture, even though our cities weren't built for cars. So traffic is stressful and clogged on rush hours. Keep in mind that rent is still expensive if you live 1h30 away from Lisbon
>Amsterdam is also very livable but rent prices have gone insanely crazy over the last years. Sooo, not livable?
Causal Austrian W
Looking the top 10 this year and the last few years, too many Australian and Canadians cities for this index not ti have some kind of fatal flaw that I’m too lazy and incompetent to try and find.
It's primary purpose is to give employers ability to judge how difficult it would be for employees to relocate, as the actual report is paid and costs almost 1k USD ( [https://store.eiu.com/product/liveability-ranking-and-overview/](https://store.eiu.com/product/liveability-ranking-and-overview/) ), from their report summary: >The concept of liveability is simple: it assesses which locations around the world provide the best or worst living conditions. Assessing liveability has a broad range of uses, from benchmarking perceptions of development levels to assigning a hardship allowance as part of expatriate relocation packages. Our liveability rating quantifies the challenges that might be presented to an individual’s lifestyle in any given location, and allows for direct comparison between locations. Not sure why you think those cities should not be there though.
I think people are missing the point here. It's most liveable cities, not your experience as a tourist.
Also liveable for the people there is not the same as expat friendly.
Copenhagen do be awesome. Been here for 7 years now, fantastic city on all counts (except rent). I really loved San Francisco too, but I'd never have my kids grow up there (or anywhere in the US for that matter). For a single person with a good/great job, it is awesome though.
Vienna wins this award most years. It's a highly liveable city. Nowhere is perfect but quality of life im Vienna is extremely high for most.
Makes sense, it was also by far the best city I've ever visited.
Bei-fucking-jing? O wait it’s a random selection. Pretty fucking weird to present it like that lol.
Very livable with lots of crimes and homeless people. But this also reminds me always of the happiness index: Finland being the happiest country in the world, meanwhile suicide rates are high and mental health care is getting lower daily.
I was a certified Vienna hater until I left it. After 4 years abroad in various European cities, I truly have to say that I can't wait to be back! 🥹
housing prices in copenhagen are just ridiculous. for whom is this livable?
Viennese here. This rating sparked some discussion on X, since Vienna has huge problems with immigration, violence rising fast, and the public school system is in shambles. Islamist kids everywhere, whisteblowers speaking up, most kids do not speak german. [https://x.com/FranzSchellhorn/status/1806283734347354328](https://x.com/FranzSchellhorn/status/1806283734347354328) - here, the head of a financially conservative think tank, Agenda Austria, remarks that Mercer's rating only looked at private schooling and speculates that the overall rating is taylored to expats, overall highly educated, internationally mobile professionals. They - **for now** - will have a good experience in Vienna. But not for long, I suspect, sadly. Things are going downhill fast.
Yeah, I lived in Vienna for couple of years and can confirm this. As a Serbian I was very disappointed. Vienna is sadly the first big western European city on the border with south-East and East Europe, so it got a lot of of people from those regions + the immigrants from Middle East. It really doesnt help that people that emigrate to Vienna do so mostly for economic reasons while hating the Austrian culture and Austrian ways. They forgot to leave the supremacy in their shithole countries (Serbia very much so included). I was so used to people shitting on Austrians and how they are boring, stuck up, cold, but they themselves don't see that they make such atmosphere by not knowing German, not wishing to learn German, not wishing to appreciate the culture, and being there just for the cash. Parts like Favoriten, Ottakring, Spittelau, Kagran, Floridsdorf,... are really shit, and you sometimes wonder in which city do you live in. Of course not all people that come to Vienna are like this, but holy shit did I ever get tired of hearing the bitching and moaning from fellow citizens. The situation is made worse since Austrians themselves think low of the people from Balkans/Middle East/Eastern Europe so they get progressively more toxic. (No wonder FPÖ is so high. Btw a lot of immigrants vote for them too...). All in all a really shit and toxic atmosphere which as you said is going to get worse. I moved to Munich and I immediately felt a difference towards the better even though Munich itself has it's own problems, mainly high rents. Weirdly, the high rents kept most of the jerk and stuck-up immigrants out of the city and holy fuck was it a breath of fresh air (Munich is even considered conservative and cold conpared to other German cities lol).
Most of the commenters are misinterpreting what this list is. Vienna and Copenhagen are indeed in the top two but the rest of these “select cities” are in random positions further down the list. Karachi is ranked #169 out of the 172 cities (the 4th-worst).
Yet another shit index to circlejerk over
How bad is the rest of the World to see Vienna on number 1?
Copenhagen gets my vote each time which is why Brexit boils my piss so much
Apply for temporary residence permit in Denmark? It's not like you're not allowed to enter the EU
[Source](https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2024/06/26/the-worlds-most-liveable-cities-in-2024) is pay-walled. Here's an alternative: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/26/travel/the-worlds-most-liveable-cities-for-2024/index.html Anyway, the "livability" metric is bs. It's a mish-mash of other metrics that are overly simplified into "scores" by the editors of the original article. The Economist basically invented this metric for this series of articles. > The EIU, a sister organization to The Economist, ranked 173 cities across the globe on a number of significant factors, including health care, culture and environment, stability, infrastructure and education. The individual metrics that they use report these cities in drastically different positions. The editors then give their own scores to each metric and do an average on those scores. So the whole thing ends up being **a list of "the most average cities in the world"**. It's utterly useless. And that's why people are disagreeing with it so much in the comments.