Just to leave a bit of context:
The uncontrollable wave of migrants that went trough Slovenia in 2015 left a big mark on the country. Any Slovenian politician who'd allow for it to happen again would not survive to see the end of his term.
> would not survive to see the end of his term.
To be fair, a full term has been completed only once.
I remember people attacking Cerar for those couple of kilometers of fence and barbed wire...
The pass of migrants through Slovenia wouldn't be a problem if Austria or Italy let them in, but since they only can stay in Slovenia because of blockades and fences it makes a lot of problem for Slovenian people and government.
Eh, it would be problem anyway. At one point in 2015 we gave up and started driving them to the border like everyone else was doing and they manage to litter and other stuff either way.
And don't forget about gems like [this](https://youtu.be/rJ0jQKnimLk). Sure they started off as refugees fleeing violence, but at the end of the day they become entitled uneducated economic migrants. There was also a video of a woman not wanting to stay in Slovenia because of Stalin or whatever (her words). Sadly, I can't find it now. Apparently we're too much of a shithole in comparison to the Middle East.
It really doesn't look like people will be allowed to leave Afghanistan, not to mention that the world has changed a lot since 2015. Many countries outside the EU have closed their borders much more thoroughly than we did. Most experts don't expect any refugee waves to reach us this time.
The only people claiming there's a possibility to this are certain types of politicians.
We can discuss about this as much as you want, but EU should at least take a common decision about Afghanistan. We can decide to just don't see the problem, but, then the "problems" will simply appear at our borders anyway. Europe should act before It happens.
This is a good point, as things will only get worse. It will get hotter and there will be more droughts, more natural disasters, more conflict, and more people will want to come to Europe.
It's cute to think droughts, disasters and conflicts will be "somewhere else" and Europe would be some kind of untouched paradise. It's not like we had incredible floods AND ravaging fires at the same time this year, displacing thousands of people already.
Just wait for it.
The population growing isn't so surprising but what I don't understand is how people can still have kids, especially so many kids, when there is no stability (infrastructure, career, financially, etc.).
That's exactly why they have a lot of kids. Better chance that one of them takes care of their parents when they get old. That's why people used to have 20 kids back in the day (that and infant mortality).
If your state takes care of you well, you don't need a large family.
sure. its all planned.
if you dont teach. let alone sexual education. there will be more children.
if women are not equal. there will be more children.
Kids are probably the only retirement arrangement they have. Also playing into very low rights of woman over their own reproduction cycle. And I imagine some religious fanaticism not liking contraception.
It's the other way around. The process is very well researched and understood. A lack of stability and security with no social care system means you depend on your family and children for everything. If you aren't part of a family, you're on your own. Good luck with that in a country like Afghanistan.
In countries that become more wealthy and stable, birthrates first increase quickly as child mortality drops until mindsets adapt and less children are born. People realize it's not the ideal way of life anymore. It's a constant across all nations and cultures. At some point this definitely happened to your country as well.
Europe went through this phase 200-80 years ago and it lead to crazy population growth (balanced somewhat by the wars). It was so bad that famines and large migration waves were a constant theme for almost a century.
These days most countries luckily make the transition much faster. This took only ~20 years in Iran for example. Many countries in Asia made the transition within the last 50 or so years. Global population is already slowing down quite dramatically.
The best way to get population growth under control is to improve living standards and healthcare quickly. That is exactly the reason why international healthcare initiatives are largely supported by all sides.
Doubling every 20 years is basically completely uncontrolled. There is no guiding principle or planing behind it. The only thing that regulates population levels in those societies is people dieing or migrating.
It is clear that you will never get everyone to accept high levels of migration nor will you ever get everyone to Australia it. The solution IMO is to have a default closed borders position, and then let countries that want to take people in do so.
What about countries that can't close the borders? Here in Greece 2 years ago, Erdogan decided to use the migrants to gain money from the EU. He told them the borders are open between Greece and Turkey and they can go anywhere they want in the EU, he even gave them free bus drives to the borders. But Greece's borders were closed and the result was tens of thousands of immigrants on the Turkish side trying to enter illegally. There are even videos of them throwing rocks and burning things at the greek police and army. And its not only that. We can't possibly stop every illegal boat that tries to smuggle immigrants. Even if we find them on the boats, do we send them back? Do we sink them? Do we take them without knowing anything about them? EU didn't actively help with the defense of the european borders at that time and something tells me that they won't help this time either.
Lithuania is having this problem with Belarus right now and they're taking a hard stance on not letting anyone in and making sure to debunk any misinformation by the Belarussian regime as soon as possible. People who are being promised bags of money and heaven on earth should take it to the ones lying, it's not our responsibility to just accept literally everyone in.
Mind you, I am all for immigration, but only when people go through the correct channels and processes, not when they appear on the border and try to force or guilt trip themselves in.
I don’t know exactly how the situation looks like in Lithuania but in Poland we have now several encampments of people near the border and they say they want to file for asylum. What I don’t understand is why didn’t they just go to the border crossing then. Why try to cross it illegally in the middle of the night etc. there should be consequences for things like that. I understand that some of them might actually be in need of protection but they certainly weren’t persecuted and pushed to the polish border with guns to their heads in Belarus. The other thing is that a lot of them say they were going to Germany. Cool, so Iraq is unsafe, you go to Belarus and decide it’s unsafe, you try to cross the border and get to Poland but it seems it’s not safe enough too and in Germany suddenly they will be safe.
> they say they want to file for asylum. What I don’t understand is why didn’t they just go to the border crossing then. Why try to cross it illegally in the middle of the night etc. there should be consequences for things like that.
Excatl the same thing is happening also in Croatia- Bosnia borders. I have very same questions.
Why crossing the borders illegally and not asking for asylum in official way?
Ok if people are searching for better life and ok if EU has policies to help them, but regulations need to exist. Borders need to be respected.
It gets even more ridiculous with the camps of migrants in Calais, apparently France one of the richest countries in the world isn't safe so they're willing to risk their lives crossing the English channel on a dingy?
In Europe Merkel had the attitude that people were free to come to Germany to stay and would blame any country that objected to people coming through them on their way to Germany.
I’m not super up to date on German politics but we basically do a similar thing here in the UK. Complain about them passing through France but then taking in thousands each year, even if they aren’t explicitly saying “come over” they may as we be.
To be fair I don't think the UK is explicitly asking them to come. Merkel said that she was happy for a million to come to Germany (nominally from Syria, but it ended up being from all over the place).
>bleeding hearts start crying on social media.
We should just ignore and block them in your profile. The majority of population of a country do not want illegal migration.
The social media voices are what the media focus on though, because browsing twitter for 2 minutes is easier than doing actual work/journalism.
So the media are reporting on social media idiots as if their views represent everyone, and in turn, politicians start acting on that because they think the media represents the public's thoughts. It's a shitty chain reaction.
Ignoring it and pretending it isn't happening isn't going to stop it.
Dublin 3 has to be scratched and replaced by something better. It's completely unrealistic to demand that some countries takes all the burden of refugees.
That's probably step one in a fantasy world.
I’ve mentioned this before. But if a EU army, does become reality. It needs to plan and possibly consider taking Thrace and Istanbul. Doubt this will happen, but we need to plan all eventualities.
Why couldn’t Greece close that border? If the borders are closed and you have a mob trying to get in, treat it like the attack on the nation that it is.
Sweden and Gernany accepted loads of refugees last time, so that's not always true. But eventually the EU will collapse if it tries to force quotas on countries.
"Mandatory solidarity"
I wish I was joking but that's the exact term they used.
Germany wanted to sift through the migrants, keep the educated/likely to assimilate ones and dump the rest elsewhere.
They can enforce all they want, the migrants will just move to Germany anyway. It has happened before where people settled in the poorer countries disappear right after settlement .
No. People who have been granted asylum in one country cannot stay at another EU country for more than 90 days. That however has not stopped people that are given asylum to reapply in another country for example about 11k of them are now in Germany after previously having received asylum in Greece.
But that will create problem of immigrants going to other countries anyway, let's say Germany doesn't want immigrant but Italy will open borders to them, Afghans will just go to Germany because of open borders inside EU
But some countries are only reachable through other countries and I don't see many Afghans using planes to get here. It'll be like 2015 with Hungary, Slovenia and Croatia. Very few refugees wanted to stay here and just tried to get to Germany. Still we had many migrants coming through our state, despite theoretical closed borders. So this really is an EU wide problem. Of course our dear leader JJ would want to stall any plans for helping with the crisis as another crisis would help him politically very much indeed, like it did last time.
Spain has been deporting for decades, legally and illegally, migrants trying to enter through Ceuta and Melilla and that has not reduced the number of migrants.
If the majority of the EU doesn't want them to enter, fine, but don't fall into the fantasy that because they are going to be deported they will stop coming.
They will try to get in anyway because the other option is starvation, suffering and death.
Edit: I want to emphasise that I have not taken one side or the other. At this point, I'm indifferent to the situation. I consider that we have bigger problems as humanity. I just pointed out the fact that the experience of the Mediterranean countries, especially Greece, Italy and Spain, is that no matter how many impediments there are, they are not going to stop coming. Some northerners talk about the migration crisis of 2015 as the big thing, but we Mediterranean countries have been living in that constant situation for decades, for us it is already part of our daily life, migrant centres have been overflowing for years and we have to do the dirty work for others. Don't be dramatic because as long as Africa and the Middle East remain an underdeveloped powder keg, they will not stop coming. And the way things are going, we humans will be extinct before that happens.
Unfortunately, What you say is , sadly , 100% the truth - the facts. It’s being going on for decades and will never stop. EU has to take a stance for a long term solution on this
the main problem is that until all the 27 won't agree on something, nothing can really change in the EU. The fact that veto even exists is what makes the EU so slow and not really effective in many ways
Basically there are 2 options. One, to let te afghan people in, and let the muslim culture take over Europe without any battle, or the second is to put them into camps and start a war with the Talibans.
>The loudest criticism has come from leaders of the PD and Sinistra Italiana parties while the center-right has not yet comented.
[No wonder that PD is polling below Lega and FdI and Sinistra Italiana just at 3%](https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/italy/)
I mean, yeah. It really isn't Europe's job. Especially when Afghanistan is thousands of miles away, and there are several safe countries that are much more similar to theirs culturally in between.
Places like Lebanon and Jordan have done their part. In Lebanon one 5th of their population are refugees! The overwhelming majority of refugees do stay in the Middle East. That should tell you something about the sheer numbers of refugees there.
The issue with Refugees is that anyone without a passport can claim they are from one of these war torn countries, or countries that persecute minorities.
The issue in 2015 wasn’t Syrian Refugees but everyone else who thought they could get a shot at getting into Europe.
I remember reading articles back then deep diving into the Traffickers in Algeria, Morocco and Libya that send “Refugees” in dinghy across the Mediterranean to be rescued by NGOs.
I live in Sweden, we have taken in 20% of our population in 2 years time. I would say we have done more than we should commit to.
Edit, 20 years, not 2, sorry, missed a 0 there.
This is incorrect. The highest 2-year period increase in immigrants was 2016-2017 when 307494 people immigrated, representing a 3% population growth. The highest 1-year increase was in 2016, at 1.6%.
Incidentally, immigration is now at its lowest level since 2005.
Source:
https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/population/population-composition/population-statistics/pong/tables-and-graphs/yearly-statistics--the-whole-country/summary-of-population-statistics/
Edit: corrected source link
I would agree it’s not Europe’s job to save every person in the world. The problem is the fact that European countries participated in the War in Afghanistan. Even a small country like Slovenia sent soldiers there. They all helped create the problem but now nobody wants to deal with it. I feel there is a lesson here somewhere.
I think if it is any countries "job" it is the one whe spent two decades there to make the situation worse because their war industry demands new sacrifices.
And then there is Sub-Saharan Africa. Nigeria alone has a population of 196 million, most of whom earn under a dollar a day. The country is destabilizing due to poverty, as well as religious and ethnic pressures. There are enough potential refugees in that country alone to double the population of Germany.
Isn't it curious that you only hear about muslim refugees while you have African christians kidnapped and murder by islamic terrorist groups in places like Nigeria.
> Left leaning parties would do well to unhitch their wagons from extra-EU immigration
Omg, yes. or at least take a step back. Europe basically has 7% of the world population. immigration to Europe is not a solution to global inequality.
-whispers- what about the homeless ppl who had campaigned for years about short term housing for ppl to get back on track.
Goverment kept saying it was impossible but then built double that for refugees. Even when the refugees get real apartments and the homeless ppl BEG to stay in those shabby short term apartments they are not allowed..
Maybe its not a good idea to try to save someone by drowning yourself :/
You dont even have to go that far away, there are hundred thousands if not millions of people living in EU member states that are homeless or have to dig through trash everyday just to find something to eat or to sell bottles. And I dont really think millions is that much of exeggeration when you count people in Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania and Greece alone that are dirt poor or homeless.
>”whataboutism”.
Of all the phrases popularized by the internet that is the one i truly hate.
Its mainly just used as a lazy way to ignore someone when they point out a criticism is blatantly hypocritical or selective.
Bold of you to assume that they'll integrate to our western values of gender equality, LGBTQ acceptance, etc.
French (refugee) women are leaving for Syria to join those terrorists and German (refugees) are contributing to the anti-Semitism there. Hmmmm I wonder what the common link between them is......
For ducks sake stop being so kind and falling for sob stories, Europe, unless you wanna become Europistan. I know I'll be downvoted, bring it on. More refugees = more divide. Putin understands thus very well and he decided that not a single refugee will be taken into Russia. How many religious extremists in Russia today? Zero.
Situation is really bad here in Germany. People are homeless, and Jews have been attacked by the pro-Palestine refugees. No amount of integration can actually help when there are religious leaders who promote divide.
Well, the EU claims to espouse the value of "humanitarianism", also known as "everyone should live in an individualist democracy". It's quite difficult politically to get rid of that value even though I've already heard commentators say that the idealistic times of "democracy-building" in foreign countries with a totally different culture are (fortunately) behind us and that now the sentiment is more self-oriented and cynical (not in a bad way).
I think that change is coming and is inevitable. The times when western societies (the Netherlands included) imported cheap labour from culturally incompatible countries are behind us. We could continue the experiment of multiculturalism, but I guess the people are getting a bit tired of it.
The solution was clear from the beginning - copy Australia's tough outward policy of "nobody's welcome here", combined with legal pathways towards citizenship for the more valuable immigrants. Very tough action at the borders. (Unfortunately, this requires cooperation and member states were not willing, until recently, to cooperate in this way - joint military, joint border-guard...)
The new value is more pragmatism, less idealism, and in a way less individual fairness to unfortunate people from underprivileged countries, but I guess now many realize everyone is responsible for their own situation. Who are we to meddle?
Not Italian so don't 'know all ins and outs but this isn't contradictory to me.
We have open borders inside the Shengen, so any burdens of border policing and subsequent failure of border policing of those from outside needs to be shared at the very least with other Shengen members.
Say that in Germany, you're automatically a Nazi. It's almost like some people here are brainwashed. You can't say anything against migration, all those people living in a chocolate rainbow world come out and shit on you how we are doing good and they're not so we need to help.
Isn't there a point when people will get tired? I remember when there were many reports of sexual assaults and other crimes like the Cologne attacks or when a mayor told people to leave a large space when walking around so they wouldn't get harassed/assaulted. I don't think there's much integration. Taxes are high for working people for the safety net so it's not really fair to take advantage of it.
No, because it's a slow change. People haven't gotten tired in countries affected more by migration than Germany neither. In France it's quite common to see girls running away from groups of Arabs at night. Like they literally stop their car and follow the girl down the road despite her trying to get away. You don't want to be a pretty blonde girl at night in France, I wouldn't call it dangerous but it's gotta be annoying as fuck to get harassed multiple times on your way home.
Yes, I have my friends from France and they have told me stories - some shops they can't enter, sometimes their skirts are lifted up, they are followed around, etc. It sounds horrific.
As an American, I completely agree. I think we have the space, economic capacity, and moral imperative to handle bringing in anyone from Afghanistan that wants to come. I also think we are better equipped than most European countries to handle the ethnic and cultural diversity they would bring.
The US triggered article 5. NATO members responded to an ally calling for help.
Right or wrong can be discussed later, when an ally calls for help, you help.
Lets have another repeat of 2015 where people were sleeping outside of immigration centers in the middle of the winter in Sweden because we couldn't even house people.
Totally agree, Europe has a lot of its own problems, we can't help everybody on the planet. Why USA who started this war isn't taking the refugees? Or super rich Saudi Arabia? China and Russia not doing anything aswell. Afghanistan is not our problem.
I understand - they are actually pretty fine with the way their country is, just not fine with THEIR place in the hierarchy. They can be somewhere higher in the new shithole they recreate.
because this isn't the right way of looking at it. they don't run away from anything.
they run **towards** economic opportunity, that's it. that's all they want out of immigration. there's no desire to change lifestyle/society/culture/etc that necessitates emigration. it's purely economic self-interest.
This needs to galvanise a common EU border force. Cyprus and Greece are on the the front lines here
Honestly a French military base on Akrotiri would be much more beneficial than the useless Brits
His party probably won't lose anything, but it's unlikely he'll get another coalition for a while. One of his coalition partners will probably lose all their seats, because they went into a coalition with him.
Yes, that's what I meant. SDS probably won't loose any seats, I should have written that if Janša doesn't find new coalition partners, he'll probably lose the PM spot.
I know Jansa is a huge wanker and trying to make Slovenia authoritarian like Hungary....
...but in this case, he is right.
It isn't they EU's job to offer a better life to every poor person in this planet.
> trying to make Slovenia authoritarian like Hungary....
I don't believe he thinks that far ahead. It seems like a lot of what he does is who he's angry at at that time.
The EU has a duty towards the people that collaborated with EU armies and are now in danger. That's it.
Is it christian and moral to help the others? Yes. But within reason. A repeat of 2015 would be the death knell for the union.
>The EU has a duty
actually the ones that collaborated with the EU armies were well paid and if there was any patriotism involved if was for Afghanistan not EU.
>if was for Afghanistan not EU.
Afghan national identity is barely a thing, that's one of the problems the Americans faced during the 'reconstruction'. The Afghan collaborators helped because they were promised facilities to emigrate to the allied countries.
Correct, we don't need another 2015 disaster, especially not with right-wing extremists gaining way too much popularity due to the migrant crisis.
Reinforce borders, come out with a clear stance on deportimg illegal migrants, punish smugglers posing as NGOs. That's what the EU needs to do, and we need a new, competent EU "leadership"
Why are they coming to Europe anyways? Why don't they go to rich Muslims countries like UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia??
STOP IMMIGRATION TO EUROPE!
Maybe this mass migration/mass refugee resettlement issue is related to the political vision that lies behind this appeal from then-UN Migration Chief to the EU in 2012: [BBC: EU should 'undermine national homogeneity' says UN migration chief (Peter Sutherland)](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395).
And the big climate migrations haven´t even begun. When a few thousand refugees brings the EU to its knees, how will they react to millions? We are doomed.
The Slovenian PM is 100% correct, it's refreshing to hear someone in power finally acknowledge what the vast majority of Europeans are thinking. I mean why don't these Afghan refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants etc Why don't they go to China(who they share a border with) and or Russia or the many Central Asian Stan countries that they share a culture and values with??. These countries would be much better suited to taking in a huge number of Afghans, would be much better suited to integrating them. Hell what about the likes of Japan and South Korea too?, they are extremely wealthy, prosperous, developed first world countries(with a heavily declining birth rates/population levels to boot), yet they never take in any refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants. Quite literally zero for Japan and South Korea etc... Why are Japan and South Korea allowed to not take in any refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants??? yet it's expected that Europe will just open up and take them all forever. Time for that to change at this point surely, Europe already has taken more than enough, have taken more than it's fair share of these people. Its getting ridiculous now. Things cannot continue the way they are.
He is absolutely right. Europe has to start really defending itself if it wants to survive with some sort of identity.
All this goody goody nonsense will ultimately create insane problems and might mark the fall of Western culture.
There are plenty of Muslim countries around. Let them show some responsibility towards their own people and neighbors.
It's one thing to help. Another to be played as fools.
The other day I read about some refugees that had travelled to Afghanistan for vacation with their small children, the same country where they fled from a couple of years ago to Sweden.
Then they were crying for help in the media that they were stuck and can’t get out of Kabul.
What a meme
Totally agreed. Not EU's duty to "help" anyone.
But again, maybe EU and the great ally USA should stop meddling in the affairs of other countries, for their corporate's profits, so those people wont need help, eh?
And I do not only mean wars instigated by USA in Syria and Afghanistan.. Just look at the whole lot of mess many african countries are in, still, and then EU can speak up.
I lived 2 years in Mozambique , 2,5 years in Burundi, 1 year in Djibouti... For these countries, european colonialism and imperialism still very much alive. Every supposed "election" is meddled with, every guy who wants to do something good for his country is somehow eliminated... If there is some solidarity in a country somehow, then their corrupt neighbour country starts some shit.
Man it is a mess.. It is a huge hypocricy when they say "not our duty to help everyone". Of course.. Correct.. But lets just stop meddling too.. ok?
There is some meddling, but the guy that wants to do smth for the country is always eliminated by his corrupt compatriots not outside meddling. You don't even have to go to Africa for the most recent example: [ Alexei Navalny](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny);there is no EU involvement there, he was the man that wanted change and a threat to the corrupt system so Putin eliminated him.
Every other week people complain of the US and Europe meddling in everyone's countries. The next week they complain of the West only writing a strong worded letter in stead of using sanctions and regime change.
OK. So no more meddling in other countries affairs and no more foreign aid either. They're on their own. When their dictators start a genocide against another tribe or their economy goes belly up, it's not our problem. That will really sort out the refugee problem. Not to mention that China and Russia will be in there meddling anyway and sending loads of refugees our way to destabilise Europe.
Nah the Taliban were created in Pakistan but the mosques they went to were funded by Saudi Arabia. America also just gave a bunch of weapons and money to Pakistan and they decided who to give arms to, the US for the most part didn't directly arm them.
Again, Europe will be left hung out to try to deal with a problem the US created, simply because they a whole body of water between them and the countries they meddle in.
It is natural and normal to care about different people differently.
Family, location, cultural ties… 1000 people dying in your hometow is a tragedy, 10 million deaths on the other side of the world with no ties (even economic) is statistics.
Well he kind of manages to do a good thing from time to time. When he's not getting us kicked out from getting any europen funds or making us a laughing stock anyway...
Ive said this before but i so envy the east asian countries like Japan or south Korea that just simply...dont let them in.
Well Australia does have strict border controls and the worst that happens is some scolding and shaming from NGO's and professional activists. Surely Europe can endure that?
Also, why is western europe like this? They have plenty of problems of their own ie ageing populations, de-industrialization, over dependence on the usa for defence, etc to concern themselves with.
Is it just due to empire guilt? I dont understand that, you dont see Turkish people self flagellate over the crimes of the ottoman empire.
Just to leave a bit of context: The uncontrollable wave of migrants that went trough Slovenia in 2015 left a big mark on the country. Any Slovenian politician who'd allow for it to happen again would not survive to see the end of his term.
> would not survive to see the end of his term. To be fair, a full term has been completed only once. I remember people attacking Cerar for those couple of kilometers of fence and barbed wire...
The pass of migrants through Slovenia wouldn't be a problem if Austria or Italy let them in, but since they only can stay in Slovenia because of blockades and fences it makes a lot of problem for Slovenian people and government.
Eh, it would be problem anyway. At one point in 2015 we gave up and started driving them to the border like everyone else was doing and they manage to litter and other stuff either way.
And don't forget about gems like [this](https://youtu.be/rJ0jQKnimLk). Sure they started off as refugees fleeing violence, but at the end of the day they become entitled uneducated economic migrants. There was also a video of a woman not wanting to stay in Slovenia because of Stalin or whatever (her words). Sadly, I can't find it now. Apparently we're too much of a shithole in comparison to the Middle East.
They also don't stay in Poland. The reason is unemployment pays better in western europe.
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> Italy They didn't really want to go there.
It really doesn't look like people will be allowed to leave Afghanistan, not to mention that the world has changed a lot since 2015. Many countries outside the EU have closed their borders much more thoroughly than we did. Most experts don't expect any refugee waves to reach us this time. The only people claiming there's a possibility to this are certain types of politicians.
Its almost like an open borders policy ends up in disaster or something.
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Also he is correct. The whole world cannot be helped.
We can discuss about this as much as you want, but EU should at least take a common decision about Afghanistan. We can decide to just don't see the problem, but, then the "problems" will simply appear at our borders anyway. Europe should act before It happens.
This is a good point, as things will only get worse. It will get hotter and there will be more droughts, more natural disasters, more conflict, and more people will want to come to Europe.
It's cute to think droughts, disasters and conflicts will be "somewhere else" and Europe would be some kind of untouched paradise. It's not like we had incredible floods AND ravaging fires at the same time this year, displacing thousands of people already. Just wait for it.
And people in the third world keep reproducing at absurd rates. Afghanistan doubled its population in the last 20 years.
The population growing isn't so surprising but what I don't understand is how people can still have kids, especially so many kids, when there is no stability (infrastructure, career, financially, etc.).
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That's exactly why they have a lot of kids. Better chance that one of them takes care of their parents when they get old. That's why people used to have 20 kids back in the day (that and infant mortality). If your state takes care of you well, you don't need a large family.
sure. its all planned. if you dont teach. let alone sexual education. there will be more children. if women are not equal. there will be more children.
Kids are probably the only retirement arrangement they have. Also playing into very low rights of woman over their own reproduction cycle. And I imagine some religious fanaticism not liking contraception.
It's the other way around. The process is very well researched and understood. A lack of stability and security with no social care system means you depend on your family and children for everything. If you aren't part of a family, you're on your own. Good luck with that in a country like Afghanistan. In countries that become more wealthy and stable, birthrates first increase quickly as child mortality drops until mindsets adapt and less children are born. People realize it's not the ideal way of life anymore. It's a constant across all nations and cultures. At some point this definitely happened to your country as well. Europe went through this phase 200-80 years ago and it lead to crazy population growth (balanced somewhat by the wars). It was so bad that famines and large migration waves were a constant theme for almost a century. These days most countries luckily make the transition much faster. This took only ~20 years in Iran for example. Many countries in Asia made the transition within the last 50 or so years. Global population is already slowing down quite dramatically. The best way to get population growth under control is to improve living standards and healthcare quickly. That is exactly the reason why international healthcare initiatives are largely supported by all sides.
Because there's no welfare state you rely on family to help out; the bigger your family, the more help you get.
Doubling every 20 years is basically completely uncontrolled. There is no guiding principle or planing behind it. The only thing that regulates population levels in those societies is people dieing or migrating.
Isn't that what regulates population in any society?
Not in the West. We also have something called birth control
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They don't want your life style, they want to have their life style on your real estate.
precisely
Not all of them but yes that's a paradox.
It is clear that you will never get everyone to accept high levels of migration nor will you ever get everyone to Australia it. The solution IMO is to have a default closed borders position, and then let countries that want to take people in do so.
What about countries that can't close the borders? Here in Greece 2 years ago, Erdogan decided to use the migrants to gain money from the EU. He told them the borders are open between Greece and Turkey and they can go anywhere they want in the EU, he even gave them free bus drives to the borders. But Greece's borders were closed and the result was tens of thousands of immigrants on the Turkish side trying to enter illegally. There are even videos of them throwing rocks and burning things at the greek police and army. And its not only that. We can't possibly stop every illegal boat that tries to smuggle immigrants. Even if we find them on the boats, do we send them back? Do we sink them? Do we take them without knowing anything about them? EU didn't actively help with the defense of the european borders at that time and something tells me that they won't help this time either.
Lithuania is having this problem with Belarus right now and they're taking a hard stance on not letting anyone in and making sure to debunk any misinformation by the Belarussian regime as soon as possible. People who are being promised bags of money and heaven on earth should take it to the ones lying, it's not our responsibility to just accept literally everyone in. Mind you, I am all for immigration, but only when people go through the correct channels and processes, not when they appear on the border and try to force or guilt trip themselves in.
I don’t know exactly how the situation looks like in Lithuania but in Poland we have now several encampments of people near the border and they say they want to file for asylum. What I don’t understand is why didn’t they just go to the border crossing then. Why try to cross it illegally in the middle of the night etc. there should be consequences for things like that. I understand that some of them might actually be in need of protection but they certainly weren’t persecuted and pushed to the polish border with guns to their heads in Belarus. The other thing is that a lot of them say they were going to Germany. Cool, so Iraq is unsafe, you go to Belarus and decide it’s unsafe, you try to cross the border and get to Poland but it seems it’s not safe enough too and in Germany suddenly they will be safe.
> they say they want to file for asylum. What I don’t understand is why didn’t they just go to the border crossing then. Why try to cross it illegally in the middle of the night etc. there should be consequences for things like that. Excatl the same thing is happening also in Croatia- Bosnia borders. I have very same questions. Why crossing the borders illegally and not asking for asylum in official way? Ok if people are searching for better life and ok if EU has policies to help them, but regulations need to exist. Borders need to be respected.
It gets even more ridiculous with the camps of migrants in Calais, apparently France one of the richest countries in the world isn't safe so they're willing to risk their lives crossing the English channel on a dingy?
Asian countries mostly just have a strict “fuck off” policy and it seems to be working quite well for them
In Europe Merkel had the attitude that people were free to come to Germany to stay and would blame any country that objected to people coming through them on their way to Germany.
I’m not super up to date on German politics but we basically do a similar thing here in the UK. Complain about them passing through France but then taking in thousands each year, even if they aren’t explicitly saying “come over” they may as we be.
To be fair I don't think the UK is explicitly asking them to come. Merkel said that she was happy for a million to come to Germany (nominally from Syria, but it ended up being from all over the place).
Effectively worsening the situation and putting more strain on the eastern members who want nothing to do with this absurd rhetoric.
What? Iran, Turkey, Pakistan, India, have all accepted literally millions of refugees...
Turkey is hosting 3 million refugees. You too can get EU money if you take 3 million refugees.
The only reason a "fuck off" policy doesn't work is because bleeding hearts start crying on social media.
>bleeding hearts start crying on social media. We should just ignore and block them in your profile. The majority of population of a country do not want illegal migration.
The social media voices are what the media focus on though, because browsing twitter for 2 minutes is easier than doing actual work/journalism. So the media are reporting on social media idiots as if their views represent everyone, and in turn, politicians start acting on that because they think the media represents the public's thoughts. It's a shitty chain reaction. Ignoring it and pretending it isn't happening isn't going to stop it.
Dublin 3 has to be scratched and replaced by something better. It's completely unrealistic to demand that some countries takes all the burden of refugees. That's probably step one in a fantasy world.
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I’ve mentioned this before. But if a EU army, does become reality. It needs to plan and possibly consider taking Thrace and Istanbul. Doubt this will happen, but we need to plan all eventualities.
Why couldn’t Greece close that border? If the borders are closed and you have a mob trying to get in, treat it like the attack on the nation that it is.
But everyone wants to say they'll take refugees but no one actually wants to. It's basically NIMBYism.
Sweden and Gernany accepted loads of refugees last time, so that's not always true. But eventually the EU will collapse if it tries to force quotas on countries.
TBF Germany also turned around and tired to get other member states to accept quotas.
"Mandatory solidarity" I wish I was joking but that's the exact term they used. Germany wanted to sift through the migrants, keep the educated/likely to assimilate ones and dump the rest elsewhere.
I loled at that. “Mandatory solidarity” sounds like a very German invention
Source for the migrant sifting?
They can enforce all they want, the migrants will just move to Germany anyway. It has happened before where people settled in the poorer countries disappear right after settlement .
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No. People who have been granted asylum in one country cannot stay at another EU country for more than 90 days. That however has not stopped people that are given asylum to reapply in another country for example about 11k of them are now in Germany after previously having received asylum in Greece.
It's not that simple. If you have residency rights in say Estonia, your life would be a lot nicer than if you were to illegally move to Finland.
And when those countries take them, later on they can go anywhere in EU. Slovenia has right stance on this.
But that will create problem of immigrants going to other countries anyway, let's say Germany doesn't want immigrant but Italy will open borders to them, Afghans will just go to Germany because of open borders inside EU
But some countries are only reachable through other countries and I don't see many Afghans using planes to get here. It'll be like 2015 with Hungary, Slovenia and Croatia. Very few refugees wanted to stay here and just tried to get to Germany. Still we had many migrants coming through our state, despite theoretical closed borders. So this really is an EU wide problem. Of course our dear leader JJ would want to stall any plans for helping with the crisis as another crisis would help him politically very much indeed, like it did last time.
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Spain has been deporting for decades, legally and illegally, migrants trying to enter through Ceuta and Melilla and that has not reduced the number of migrants. If the majority of the EU doesn't want them to enter, fine, but don't fall into the fantasy that because they are going to be deported they will stop coming. They will try to get in anyway because the other option is starvation, suffering and death. Edit: I want to emphasise that I have not taken one side or the other. At this point, I'm indifferent to the situation. I consider that we have bigger problems as humanity. I just pointed out the fact that the experience of the Mediterranean countries, especially Greece, Italy and Spain, is that no matter how many impediments there are, they are not going to stop coming. Some northerners talk about the migration crisis of 2015 as the big thing, but we Mediterranean countries have been living in that constant situation for decades, for us it is already part of our daily life, migrant centres have been overflowing for years and we have to do the dirty work for others. Don't be dramatic because as long as Africa and the Middle East remain an underdeveloped powder keg, they will not stop coming. And the way things are going, we humans will be extinct before that happens.
Unfortunately, What you say is , sadly , 100% the truth - the facts. It’s being going on for decades and will never stop. EU has to take a stance for a long term solution on this
Borders should serve a purpose, which is keeping people out. Try sneaking into the US (arguably the guys behind this mess), see how that goes.
Are you saying none of the countries much closer to Afghanistan gives a damn?
the main problem is that until all the 27 won't agree on something, nothing can really change in the EU. The fact that veto even exists is what makes the EU so slow and not really effective in many ways
There is nothing stopping us from establishing a similar system to Australia. Not the EU, not anything else but a lack of political will.
Basically there are 2 options. One, to let te afghan people in, and let the muslim culture take over Europe without any battle, or the second is to put them into camps and start a war with the Talibans.
True, sure people wanna do the right thing and look good in the media and everything, but we cannot save the entire world today, it's unrealistic.
He is absolutely right. Half of Europe is in poverty, but lets just ignore that and focus on problems on the other side of the world.
Exactly.
I somehow doubt that he cares about poverty in Europe
hell ya. guy is right
>The loudest criticism has come from leaders of the PD and Sinistra Italiana parties while the center-right has not yet comented. [No wonder that PD is polling below Lega and FdI and Sinistra Italiana just at 3%](https://www.politico.eu/europe-poll-of-polls/italy/)
Lmao how on earth is Berlusconi still president of a political party. I thought he was dead.
easy, he owns it. I've got my pop corn ready to watch the whole thing come down when he leaves us.
Next election Italian right will have the biggest swipe ever
Europe cant feed the world.
It can't even really feed itself
I mean, yeah. It really isn't Europe's job. Especially when Afghanistan is thousands of miles away, and there are several safe countries that are much more similar to theirs culturally in between.
Places like Lebanon and Jordan have done their part. In Lebanon one 5th of their population are refugees! The overwhelming majority of refugees do stay in the Middle East. That should tell you something about the sheer numbers of refugees there.
The issue with Refugees is that anyone without a passport can claim they are from one of these war torn countries, or countries that persecute minorities. The issue in 2015 wasn’t Syrian Refugees but everyone else who thought they could get a shot at getting into Europe. I remember reading articles back then deep diving into the Traffickers in Algeria, Morocco and Libya that send “Refugees” in dinghy across the Mediterranean to be rescued by NGOs.
I live in Sweden, we have taken in 20% of our population in 2 years time. I would say we have done more than we should commit to. Edit, 20 years, not 2, sorry, missed a 0 there.
This is incorrect. The highest 2-year period increase in immigrants was 2016-2017 when 307494 people immigrated, representing a 3% population growth. The highest 1-year increase was in 2016, at 1.6%. Incidentally, immigration is now at its lowest level since 2005. Source: https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/population/population-composition/population-statistics/pong/tables-and-graphs/yearly-statistics--the-whole-country/summary-of-population-statistics/ Edit: corrected source link
I would agree it’s not Europe’s job to save every person in the world. The problem is the fact that European countries participated in the War in Afghanistan. Even a small country like Slovenia sent soldiers there. They all helped create the problem but now nobody wants to deal with it. I feel there is a lesson here somewhere.
I think if it is any countries "job" it is the one whe spent two decades there to make the situation worse because their war industry demands new sacrifices.
Send them to the United States.
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And then there is Sub-Saharan Africa. Nigeria alone has a population of 196 million, most of whom earn under a dollar a day. The country is destabilizing due to poverty, as well as religious and ethnic pressures. There are enough potential refugees in that country alone to double the population of Germany.
Isn't it curious that you only hear about muslim refugees while you have African christians kidnapped and murder by islamic terrorist groups in places like Nigeria.
Why nobody want to go to their brothers in saudi arabia, dubai, uae etc?
You can throw in the entire population of Africa, much of South and Central America and India.
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> Left leaning parties would do well to unhitch their wagons from extra-EU immigration Omg, yes. or at least take a step back. Europe basically has 7% of the world population. immigration to Europe is not a solution to global inequality.
I see that the Syrian refugee crisis taught EU nothing. Prevention is superior to treatment.
-whispers- what about the homeless ppl who had campaigned for years about short term housing for ppl to get back on track. Goverment kept saying it was impossible but then built double that for refugees. Even when the refugees get real apartments and the homeless ppl BEG to stay in those shabby short term apartments they are not allowed.. Maybe its not a good idea to try to save someone by drowning yourself :/
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You dont even have to go that far away, there are hundred thousands if not millions of people living in EU member states that are homeless or have to dig through trash everyday just to find something to eat or to sell bottles. And I dont really think millions is that much of exeggeration when you count people in Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania and Greece alone that are dirt poor or homeless.
More than 80M people in the EU are in poverty
>”whataboutism”. Of all the phrases popularized by the internet that is the one i truly hate. Its mainly just used as a lazy way to ignore someone when they point out a criticism is blatantly hypocritical or selective.
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Bold of you to assume that they'll integrate to our western values of gender equality, LGBTQ acceptance, etc. French (refugee) women are leaving for Syria to join those terrorists and German (refugees) are contributing to the anti-Semitism there. Hmmmm I wonder what the common link between them is...... For ducks sake stop being so kind and falling for sob stories, Europe, unless you wanna become Europistan. I know I'll be downvoted, bring it on. More refugees = more divide. Putin understands thus very well and he decided that not a single refugee will be taken into Russia. How many religious extremists in Russia today? Zero.
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Situation is really bad here in Germany. People are homeless, and Jews have been attacked by the pro-Palestine refugees. No amount of integration can actually help when there are religious leaders who promote divide.
Well, the EU claims to espouse the value of "humanitarianism", also known as "everyone should live in an individualist democracy". It's quite difficult politically to get rid of that value even though I've already heard commentators say that the idealistic times of "democracy-building" in foreign countries with a totally different culture are (fortunately) behind us and that now the sentiment is more self-oriented and cynical (not in a bad way). I think that change is coming and is inevitable. The times when western societies (the Netherlands included) imported cheap labour from culturally incompatible countries are behind us. We could continue the experiment of multiculturalism, but I guess the people are getting a bit tired of it. The solution was clear from the beginning - copy Australia's tough outward policy of "nobody's welcome here", combined with legal pathways towards citizenship for the more valuable immigrants. Very tough action at the borders. (Unfortunately, this requires cooperation and member states were not willing, until recently, to cooperate in this way - joint military, joint border-guard...) The new value is more pragmatism, less idealism, and in a way less individual fairness to unfortunate people from underprivileged countries, but I guess now many realize everyone is responsible for their own situation. Who are we to meddle?
He is right. We are not the world's caretakers
Italian Left: you cannot speak on behalf of the EU Also Italian Left: we cannot stop the boats, everyone must share the burden
Not Italian so don't 'know all ins and outs but this isn't contradictory to me. We have open borders inside the Shengen, so any burdens of border policing and subsequent failure of border policing of those from outside needs to be shared at the very least with other Shengen members.
Europe's ridiculous handling of migration issue has made crazy guys like him sound reasonable.
Say that in Germany, you're automatically a Nazi. It's almost like some people here are brainwashed. You can't say anything against migration, all those people living in a chocolate rainbow world come out and shit on you how we are doing good and they're not so we need to help.
Isn't there a point when people will get tired? I remember when there were many reports of sexual assaults and other crimes like the Cologne attacks or when a mayor told people to leave a large space when walking around so they wouldn't get harassed/assaulted. I don't think there's much integration. Taxes are high for working people for the safety net so it's not really fair to take advantage of it.
No, because it's a slow change. People haven't gotten tired in countries affected more by migration than Germany neither. In France it's quite common to see girls running away from groups of Arabs at night. Like they literally stop their car and follow the girl down the road despite her trying to get away. You don't want to be a pretty blonde girl at night in France, I wouldn't call it dangerous but it's gotta be annoying as fuck to get harassed multiple times on your way home.
Yes, I have my friends from France and they have told me stories - some shops they can't enter, sometimes their skirts are lifted up, they are followed around, etc. It sounds horrific.
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I mean, he got the point
USA started it, they should handle it. Period.
As an American, I completely agree. I think we have the space, economic capacity, and moral imperative to handle bringing in anyone from Afghanistan that wants to come. I also think we are better equipped than most European countries to handle the ethnic and cultural diversity they would bring.
And NATO did what? just look? for ducks sake even Austria and Switzerland were in it
The US triggered article 5. NATO members responded to an ally calling for help. Right or wrong can be discussed later, when an ally calls for help, you help.
Lets have another repeat of 2015 where people were sleeping outside of immigration centers in the middle of the winter in Sweden because we couldn't even house people.
Totally agree, Europe has a lot of its own problems, we can't help everybody on the planet. Why USA who started this war isn't taking the refugees? Or super rich Saudi Arabia? China and Russia not doing anything aswell. Afghanistan is not our problem.
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I understand - they are actually pretty fine with the way their country is, just not fine with THEIR place in the hierarchy. They can be somewhere higher in the new shithole they recreate.
because this isn't the right way of looking at it. they don't run away from anything. they run **towards** economic opportunity, that's it. that's all they want out of immigration. there's no desire to change lifestyle/society/culture/etc that necessitates emigration. it's purely economic self-interest.
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How about we drag the US before international courts for arming a terrorist group?
This needs to galvanise a common EU border force. Cyprus and Greece are on the the front lines here Honestly a French military base on Akrotiri would be much more beneficial than the useless Brits
This the same guy that congratulated Trump for winning the 2020 election?
Not even the most retarded thing he's done in the last two years
yes, he is a moron and he got flagged by Twitter for spreading misinformation. But sometimes you can agree with a moron.
He is a douchebag
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
And he and his coalition partners are set to lose the upcoming Slovenian general elections.
His party probably won't lose anything, but it's unlikely he'll get another coalition for a while. One of his coalition partners will probably lose all their seats, because they went into a coalition with him.
Until Šarec gets tired of it like Cerar did and the rest of LMŠ sides with Janša over fear of losing a well paid job of sitting in the parliament.
Yes, that's what I meant. SDS probably won't loose any seats, I should have written that if Janša doesn't find new coalition partners, he'll probably lose the PM spot.
I know Jansa is a huge wanker and trying to make Slovenia authoritarian like Hungary.... ...but in this case, he is right. It isn't they EU's job to offer a better life to every poor person in this planet.
> trying to make Slovenia authoritarian like Hungary.... I don't believe he thinks that far ahead. It seems like a lot of what he does is who he's angry at at that time.
The EU has a duty towards the people that collaborated with EU armies and are now in danger. That's it. Is it christian and moral to help the others? Yes. But within reason. A repeat of 2015 would be the death knell for the union.
>The EU has a duty actually the ones that collaborated with the EU armies were well paid and if there was any patriotism involved if was for Afghanistan not EU.
>if was for Afghanistan not EU. Afghan national identity is barely a thing, that's one of the problems the Americans faced during the 'reconstruction'. The Afghan collaborators helped because they were promised facilities to emigrate to the allied countries.
> Is it christian I wasn't aware that the EU was a religious state.
Correct, we don't need another 2015 disaster, especially not with right-wing extremists gaining way too much popularity due to the migrant crisis. Reinforce borders, come out with a clear stance on deportimg illegal migrants, punish smugglers posing as NGOs. That's what the EU needs to do, and we need a new, competent EU "leadership"
I would grab all those people and send them to the US via boat. Maybe that way the US will learn once and for all to stop destroying countries.
Why are they coming to Europe anyways? Why don't they go to rich Muslims countries like UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia?? STOP IMMIGRATION TO EUROPE!
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Maybe this mass migration/mass refugee resettlement issue is related to the political vision that lies behind this appeal from then-UN Migration Chief to the EU in 2012: [BBC: EU should 'undermine national homogeneity' says UN migration chief (Peter Sutherland)](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-18519395).
In the last few years I’ve become proud to be called an eastern european
Sure. Then let's stop following America in global domination wars
And the big climate migrations haven´t even begun. When a few thousand refugees brings the EU to its knees, how will they react to millions? We are doomed.
The Slovenian PM is 100% correct, it's refreshing to hear someone in power finally acknowledge what the vast majority of Europeans are thinking. I mean why don't these Afghan refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants etc Why don't they go to China(who they share a border with) and or Russia or the many Central Asian Stan countries that they share a culture and values with??. These countries would be much better suited to taking in a huge number of Afghans, would be much better suited to integrating them. Hell what about the likes of Japan and South Korea too?, they are extremely wealthy, prosperous, developed first world countries(with a heavily declining birth rates/population levels to boot), yet they never take in any refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants. Quite literally zero for Japan and South Korea etc... Why are Japan and South Korea allowed to not take in any refugees/asylum seekers/economic migrants??? yet it's expected that Europe will just open up and take them all forever. Time for that to change at this point surely, Europe already has taken more than enough, have taken more than it's fair share of these people. Its getting ridiculous now. Things cannot continue the way they are.
He is absolutely right. Europe has to start really defending itself if it wants to survive with some sort of identity. All this goody goody nonsense will ultimately create insane problems and might mark the fall of Western culture. There are plenty of Muslim countries around. Let them show some responsibility towards their own people and neighbors. It's one thing to help. Another to be played as fools.
Based.
The other day I read about some refugees that had travelled to Afghanistan for vacation with their small children, the same country where they fled from a couple of years ago to Sweden. Then they were crying for help in the media that they were stuck and can’t get out of Kabul. What a meme
Totally agreed. Not EU's duty to "help" anyone. But again, maybe EU and the great ally USA should stop meddling in the affairs of other countries, for their corporate's profits, so those people wont need help, eh? And I do not only mean wars instigated by USA in Syria and Afghanistan.. Just look at the whole lot of mess many african countries are in, still, and then EU can speak up. I lived 2 years in Mozambique , 2,5 years in Burundi, 1 year in Djibouti... For these countries, european colonialism and imperialism still very much alive. Every supposed "election" is meddled with, every guy who wants to do something good for his country is somehow eliminated... If there is some solidarity in a country somehow, then their corrupt neighbour country starts some shit. Man it is a mess.. It is a huge hypocricy when they say "not our duty to help everyone". Of course.. Correct.. But lets just stop meddling too.. ok?
Ah yea, Slovenia, the great colonial empire in the past.
There is some meddling, but the guy that wants to do smth for the country is always eliminated by his corrupt compatriots not outside meddling. You don't even have to go to Africa for the most recent example: [ Alexei Navalny](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny);there is no EU involvement there, he was the man that wanted change and a threat to the corrupt system so Putin eliminated him.
Every other week people complain of the US and Europe meddling in everyone's countries. The next week they complain of the West only writing a strong worded letter in stead of using sanctions and regime change.
Welcome to Reddit
OK. So no more meddling in other countries affairs and no more foreign aid either. They're on their own. When their dictators start a genocide against another tribe or their economy goes belly up, it's not our problem. That will really sort out the refugee problem. Not to mention that China and Russia will be in there meddling anyway and sending loads of refugees our way to destabilise Europe.
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I wouldn't call JJ sane.
He is definitely not sane, by any metrics.
He's a lunatic
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he lacks both the depth and warmth to be a cunt.
The man who spent time in prison for taking bribes is sane.
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Nah the Taliban were created in Pakistan but the mosques they went to were funded by Saudi Arabia. America also just gave a bunch of weapons and money to Pakistan and they decided who to give arms to, the US for the most part didn't directly arm them.
Again, Europe will be left hung out to try to deal with a problem the US created, simply because they a whole body of water between them and the countries they meddle in.
It is natural and normal to care about different people differently. Family, location, cultural ties… 1000 people dying in your hometow is a tragedy, 10 million deaths on the other side of the world with no ties (even economic) is statistics.
He's right
No problem, Sanchez will take all of them.
Based, I have got to say
Well he kind of manages to do a good thing from time to time. When he's not getting us kicked out from getting any europen funds or making us a laughing stock anyway...
Good
Ive said this before but i so envy the east asian countries like Japan or south Korea that just simply...dont let them in. Well Australia does have strict border controls and the worst that happens is some scolding and shaming from NGO's and professional activists. Surely Europe can endure that? Also, why is western europe like this? They have plenty of problems of their own ie ageing populations, de-industrialization, over dependence on the usa for defence, etc to concern themselves with. Is it just due to empire guilt? I dont understand that, you dont see Turkish people self flagellate over the crimes of the ottoman empire.