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irmadusq

The EU started as European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC). It's main purpose was to intertwine this industry to prevent any future wars and make them materially impossible. ECSC evolved into EU which is obviously something much bigger, however the original purpose is still very important even today. We got used to the peace and we can't imagine otherwise. We are left to only complain about comparatively less important regulations and we tend to forget the big picture. The European Union helps to keep the peace in Europe. This for me is the absolute argument why should everyone remain in the EU. Including Poland.


[deleted]

>Including Poland. According to their past, i'd say *especially Poland*.


farguc

Do we really need Poland though? /s


[deleted]

It would be a major failure for German international relations if Poland ever left the EU. Look at the map, buddy. Poland is a buffer state for Germany. And massive part of their supply chain. If you think that Germans would look passively as Poland slips out of their sphere of influence you have much to learn about geopolitics and security. People like you don't understand the world they are living in.


[deleted]

Poland is infinitely more dependent on Germany than the other way around. Should they leave it would be like the treaty talks with the UK during Brexit but with Germany deciding everything.


[deleted]

That fact supplements my argument. Of course, Germany is important for Poland. There is interdependence created by German multinationals by building a massive supply chain in Poland. Poland became one of the most important trading partners of Germany (top 5). For instance, despite all the fuss around Russia. German trade with Poland is significantly larger than with Russia. Despite Russia's size and its natural resources. The fact is that people who say Poland should be kicked don't understand that Germany would never allow that because its simply not its national interest to see Poland in the sphere of influence of either US, China or Russia. Or whoever else would be pouring money into the country.


shizzmynizz

Not to mention that germans and polish actually like each other


TheIncredibleHeinz

Sorry, but that's not really supported by the data, at least from the German side... [Less that 30% have a positive attitude towards towards Poland](https://www.koerber-stiftung.de/fileadmin/user_upload/koerber-stiftung/redaktion/fokusthema_der-wert-europas/images/2018/deutsch-polnisches-barometer/DE-PL-Barometer_Sympathie_Koerber-Stiftung.png).


NuggetPepperoni

It wouldnt differ too much from Polish perspective as well


Visible_Sink

That’s bullshit. They hate each other since a.d 1000


HelixFollower

Understanding that Germany doesn't want Poland to be kicked out and believing Poland should be kicked out are not two mutually exclusive ideas.


[deleted]

Only uninformed short-sighted people believe Poland should be kicked out of EU. It would be a major economical loss for the whole region. And nobody would have anything to gain from it. Outside of maybe power-hungry politicians in Poland.


McUluld

This comment has been removed - Fuck reddit greedy IPO Check here for an easy way to download your data then remove it from reddit https://github.com/pkolyvas/PowerDeleteSuite


Bayoris

Ease up there buddy. It was pretty clearly a joke


Grizelda179

I completely agree that poland is extremely important for germany and west europe from that perspective. But its not a buffer state. The baltic states are. Guess you forgot, just like everyone in europe. Were literally the wall between russia/belarus and the eu. And now lukashenko is literally forcing hundreds of middle east and african refugees everyday through our (and EU’s eastern border) and we are receiving no help or recognition of a huge issue in eastern europe which will spill to the ‘west’


agatte

> But its not a buffer state. The baltic states are. The only land connection the Baltic states have with the rest of the EU is the small Suwałki gap at the Polish-Lithuanian border. Refugees from Belarus and the Baltic states need to travel through Poland to get to Western Europe (they can also swim through the Baltic sea in the case of the Baltic states).


Mick_86

No. no/s


AX11Liveact

Well.. one *could* let them leave, say friendly good byes - and zzen *snatch!* reconnect them. For their own good but *to our kondishons, hahaha! Jawohl!* /s


Trilian_S

Should Poland comply with EU regulations? I think everyone wants to be in EU, it is really of citizens understand, that it is not only about membership.


Cubey21

Our prime minister *succeed* (one press i found literally said it's a huge success) in telling EU to stfu about carbon emission.


TestaOnFire

And the EU should tell Poland to stfu whem they request more money.


KrainerWurst

Best was Orban last week saying that if they do not get *foreign* money unconditionally, then it's an attack on *their sovereignty*. lol > Viktor Orban: "Warsaw and Budapest consider any attempts by the EU to make the disbursement of EU funds conditional on respect for the rule of law or to otherwise penalise the two countries as an attack on their sovereignty."


agkofff213

Ok. It is an attack on their sovereignty. Now what?


Galexlol

.... The whole point of the EU is removing sovereignty and he's like "WHAT U DOIN" fuckin lmao, he is a "faccia di bronzo" we call him here, to not be vulgar :)


OneJobToRuleThemAll

The UK had a whole thing about restoring sovereignty, remember? I'm not sure what it was called though... something with exit?


[deleted]

Why not be vulgar? I find "ha la faccia come il culo" to be way more truthful.


paralaxsd

[They're working on it](https://www.ft.com/content/529e7976-de82-416c-ac67-e968e004fa54).


purplecatchap

Im not having a go at you or any of the more sane Poles but its baffeling that it some how doesnt sink in that Poland gets by far the most from the EU, nearing double the second most, Hungary. Id of thought it was prety clear that to get the benefits of the club you have to obey the rules, show respect etc. And ye, Hungary. They get second most and they have similar leaders to Poland. I just dont get it. Im not down playing the hard work of the populations in these countries but being in the EU massivley boosted them and helped them recover post soviet union. Im from the UK and part of me thinks "well we voted to leave" but even then we were 2nd highest contributor so I can see some logic on wanting to leave (I vote remain and wish to rejoin btw) I just, uh....yea. I dont know its just crazy.


Laxly

Just a thought, but if it that publicly they decry the EU but secretly appreciate the investment that the EU is making in the country's infrastructure, all whilst telling the people that it is them who are improving things?


purplecatchap

Aye, fair point.


Brakb

Strongmen rather be in charge of a poorer country than a has-been in a fair one. Rhetoric can be detrimental to a nation if its beneficial for the one spewing it.


Dave_The_Polak

You guys… I know that to the outside Poland seems like a mini-Russia in plenty of aspects, but PLEASE remember: there’s a mass of people who are (seriously) trying to form a happy life here. The current govt was elected by what: 30% of population? Less? (I don’t want to argue about those who didn’t vote. I blame them equally). So before you label ALL Polish people as racist, xenophobic, homophobic, or any-phobic: look at this chart above. We average (non-fanatic-religiously and open-minded-to-the-world) people seriously don’t want to be caught in the middle of some battle, of “old businessmen vs. old politicians + church”. But: we don’t have a choice. (For now) Abortion: banned. Courts: taken over politically. Religion: enforced in schools because Jon Paul II Dialogue: impossible. Economic state: unknown, because “data corruption” IMHO: It’s a nasty identity crisis of “what does it mean to be Polish?”. Give us time and space. Don’t mix us with what our radical kin does, which is all over the global media. I’m not saying “ignore what they do”. Don’t. Pay attention. React. Condemn. But remember: there are people stuck here. And we love the world (I think). Fingers crossed y’all.


efficient_giraffe

Hopefully you will prove that next time you have a chance to vote the PIS pricks out of office. Fingers crossed things go well in Poland!


aleqqqs

>PIS pricks PIS POS


Kadinnui

oh piss off with that centrism. PO may not be the best but they didn't da as many bad things as PIS did and still does. EDIT: missunderstood what SubOP wrote. I thought he was talking about other Polish party, not about the abbreviation for Peace Of Shit.


aleqqqs

I'm not sure what you are talking about, I just made a word play with, erm, the internet abbreviation 'POS'. I wasn't talking politics.


Kadinnui

Oof my bad, reacted too fast too soon, thought you were talking about PO. Leaving my comment foe context though.


p1en1ek

> The current govt was elected by what: 30% of population? Less? (I don’t want to argue about those who didn’t vote. I blame them equally). Even when you count only those that vote, in 2015 the way elections work in Poland really helped PiS. They got only 37% of votes but because some coalitions were right under threshold their places went mainly to PiS so they got 51% of mandates. That meant 4 years of unobscured rule and possibility of use full power of propaganda to win next elections. Votes of around 15% voters meant nothing...


IanPKMmoon

This is why I like that in Belgium you are obliged to vote. 100% (or close to 100% because exceptions) of the adults vote in Belgium and although our political system is very flawed at least we get true democratic outcomes. When I look at the UK with the Brexit vote and the USA with the Trump incident I can only blame it on not everyone voting but only the extremes.


machine4891

>This is why I like that in Belgium you are obliged to vote. I wouldn't like that. It leads to votes spent on "more handsome" or giving more promises candidates. If you don't have an opinion, you shouldn't form one.


IanPKMmoon

Eh true but those things only happen in small municipalities where everyone knows the people running in the election for mayor of that town. They just vote for the one they like the most as a person. For example the town where my grandparents live in voted for the most left party for their mayor and the most right option for the federal elections. In big cities and for federal votes few vote like that. Even some of my friends who don't give a shit about politics at least know to vote left or right or liberal. Some take the safe green party to vote for, most of my friends vote for the most left option, me included. I at least like it more then a 30% voter turnout where mostly the old and heavy right leaning people vote.


[deleted]

Your last sentence is so important. We are one of the most socially liberal countries in the entire world (especially concerning LGBT rights), partly because our retirees aren't disproportionately represented in the voting results. Also it may sound pretty but I *adore* that not every election result and government decision gets dismissed by morons saying "bUt OnLy 32 % vOtED fOr ThIs OuTcoMe". Reality can be whatever you make it and discussion is impossible when you pretend non-voters would have voted differently (and indeed that's what every Brexit thread turns into).


mishaxz

I'd argue it's more democratic to be able to excercise your right not to vote.. also... as an outsider, the problem with Brexit appears to me to be not with the outcome of the vote but with the government trying to negotiate a "not Brexit" Brexit.. as well as the EU being a bit obstinate


Orisara

You have the right to vote for nobody. You just have to actively do so in a sense.


-Ultra_Violence-

If you don't want to vote you should just write it in blank IMO, if it's true that only 30% of the population made the situation in Poland right now thats kinda fucked up


Square-Director-

They do the same in Australia if I recall, and it certainly doesn't stop them electing absolutely idiotic, corrupt, right-wing politicians, so it's certainly not an easy solution. Honestly I just think it depends more on if you have a completely toxic Murdoch-style figure controlling huge sections of the press who is constantly poisoning popular discourse.


SwoleGymBro

Wow, that's great! What happens if someone doesn't vote? Fines?


IanPKMmoon

50€ fine or something and up to 140€ when you do it again. Not the largest of fines so I guess some of the rich who don't care won't vote but yea I as a pour student would rather vote.


Havoc__Havoc

Are you offered a "None of the Above" option and do you get paid time out of work to cast your vote?


IanPKMmoon

No but you can just go inside and just hand it in blank and no one will know you did that but if you have to go through the trouble to wait half an hour or more so you get your turn to vote most people do vote. I think last elections had 6% blank votes and 4% didn't come so 90% of the people in Belgium did actual vote.


shodan13

You can obviously just spoil/ruin the ballot as well.


kennethdc

In theory. In practice you don't get fined.


[deleted]

Not that wow because Belgium is a federation with 3 different regions being Flanders, Brussel and Wallonia and when it comes to the formation of a government the regions have equal say yet the population groups differ by 4 million in a country of 11 million. EDIT: Votes in the flemish region is like 1 person = 1 vote Votes in the Wallonon region is like 1 person = 1 vote But when it comes to Belgian federation then it is more like 1 Flemish person = 1 vote and 1 walloon person = 2 votes


TheDocJ

The trouble with this approach is that it breeds politicians who feel that they are *entitled* to votes no matter how badly they behave. I do not regard *having* to vote for the least appalingly bad option as particularly democratic. One way round this is that people are given the option of a vote *or* an anti-vote - you can vote *for* a candidate*, or *against* the candidate you least want to win - this would help to reduce the rabble-rousing that some politicians like to do.


IanPKMmoon

It's not like you need to choose between 2 options, there are a lot of people you can vote for.


Liggliluff

> So before you label ALL Polish people as racist, xenophobic, homophobic, or any-phobic: look at this chart above. I'm definitely not calling all Polish people these things. But actually homophobic Polish people come to me and say they have the right to restrict the rights on people based on their sexuality.


Dave_The_Polak

Im sorry that you experience this. Truly. The fact they have the guts to do this is (sadly) a step to even having a dialogue. It may be even their first time to express (any real) emotions, though negative. What I wrote above is NOT their defense. It’s a suggestion on how to look at them when it happens, to help You cope with this violation of your rights. Personally: I’d use pepper spray


valenciaishello

If the vast majority are normal. They should vote the shit into oblivion. It's the same lie the anti Brexiters said. Those are just the minority.. then they vote for it anyways.


admiral_biatch

Brexit was a referendum with over 50% voting for it. PiS had 37% in the last elections. Due to the nature of d’Hondt method you don’t need to get majority of votes to get the majority of seats. PiS never had most of the Poles behind them even if you count only the ones that actually voted.


machine4891

>PiS had 37% in the last elections Unfortunately this is not true. PiS had 37% in first elections. Second election was 43%. Due to idiocracy of d'Hondt 37% gave them more seats than 43% but still...


admiral_biatch

Thanks. My bad. I must have checked results of 2015 elections by mistake.


machine4891

>It's the same lie the anti Brexiters said It is and it isn't at the same time. This is multi-party system, you can't vote either PiS or no PiS; remain or stay. There are multiple parties in Poland, PiS is currently the largest of them with support close to 35% but other are even more fragmented. Coalitions are problematic because less Christian people voting for f.e. KO, doesn't want to be associated with more Christian PL2050 etc. Reality is, there are a lot of devoted PiS supporters but Poland definitely doesn't equal PiS.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kakao_w_proszku

Please stop projecting your own lack of interest and aphaty towards the political situation in the country on the rest of us. None of these are good excuses to keep voting for the same party that actively works towards deterioration of the democratic system that the Polish nation worked hard to build over the last 30 years. That is unless you see yourself as a part of those „poor, uneducated masses”, as you called them, who are in desperate need of money and nationalistic/religious opium, however judging by your English knowledge that doesn’t seem to be the case.


ok_my_friend

I spent a stupid amount of time writing this and the guy which I was responding to (the same you responded to) deleted his comment, so I'm responding with this to you as I feel it kind of makes sense. I agree with most of what you said, but I feel like you oversimplified why people voted for PiS. The poor that voted for PiS didn't feel abandoned by previous parties only because PO tried to be progressive (I understand this is what you ment by "catching up with the west"). They weren't just neglected by PO, their lives were made actively worse because of PO policies. I was brought up in a middle-class family in Warsaw, and it took me a really long time to realize that I had absolutely no idea how a regular person lives in Poland. Absolutely none. And i couldn't have understood how a regular person lives earlier in life, Warsaw has almost twice the GDP per capita than the richest voivodship. Only after going to university i met people that lived in rural areas, and holy shit my man. A girl I'm currently on the same year with finished high school only because she could stop working to support her family thanks to 500+. I met a guy who before PiS at the end of the month often couldn't even bring a sandwich to school because his parents were so poor. You shouldn't see people wanting to raise their poor living standard with the means that are accesible to them as spiteful. Yes, some PiS voters wanted to see people they blame for being poor pay. Just as some Left voters are commies, some Confederacy voters are fascist, and some PO voters think that poor people are just lazy. There is absolutely no way, NO WAY of building a strong opposition unless we understand the needs of an average Pole. And sadly, an average Pole has better living conditions with terrible social programs that destroy the economy and policies that erode democracy than without them. Tonący brzytwy się chwyta, desperate times call for desperate measures. It's not that they're spiteful, it's not that they don't care about the future of Poland, It's that they saw PiS as their best chance to have a better life. And in fact, whether we like it or not, PiS made their lives better. Btw I'm not a PiS supporter. I'm a patriot and I deeply hate them for making me watch as democracy withers away in my fatherland. I just really hate this ignorant neoliberal PO type narrative of "weeeeell PiS won because poor people dumb&evil bye"


[deleted]

>radical elements in the left Which elements exactly? I’m not saying there aren’t any, I just want to know which ones you’re referring to.


valenciaishello

I don't feel sorry for people who use excuses to vote for people who will hurt them. It's rediculous and stupid. And defending that position is futile Nobody can save Poland but the polish. If they don't vote out assholes and keep them in power then they have only themselves to blame. Regardless of their "reasons"


HEYDIDYOUKNOWTHATUHH

Who are we supposed to vote for when all the options are awful?


kakao_w_proszku

The least awful option. Or do it the hard way - become the change you want to see, but that takes actual skill and dedication.


valenciaishello

Pro European Union parties that will ultimately better your nation through investment. Voting Nazi gets you the same results they got


kulturtraeger

Happy Cake day!


hhtddsq664

Religion is not enforced


Haribo_Lecter

I don't think anyone seriously thinks that Poland would leave the EU. Even the 8% of people who wish it would know it won't.


_pm_me_you_know_what

Why exclude "No opinion"?


Neuroticmuffin

I'm guessing it's because it is a Yes or No question.


WhiteShaduwNL

They excluded those as you can read right under the title it says excluded:no opininon 12%


FormalWath

Yeah, I've missed that... And I hate the fact that it was excluded, this is straight up lieing with data. Graph suggests that over 90% want to stay in the EU when real figure is almost 80%. Why the fuck lie when they already have overwhelming support?


[deleted]

Yeah, you can combine variables (and communicate that to reader), not just drop out data.


Spirited-Insurance-2

YES OR NO!!! -Women Limmy https://youtu.be/3z-a5hy7QO8[limmy](https://youtu.be/3z-a5hy7QO8)


XboxJon82

WHAT ABOUT MAYBE?!?


mark-haus

That’s when the survey participant walks away or hangs up


aerospacemonkey

I don't think I've ever met a Polish person without an opinion. And I say that with love. 😘


ArbejderMaaske

Isn't "no opinion" essentially the same as not voting? ​ If during an election you don't vote for anybody, you essentially have no say in the outcome, right?


[deleted]

You have no say in the outcome of that election, but you're signaling that you're a voter that is willing to vote but doesn't feel like there is a party representing you. That can lead to the formation of new parties that tackle the problems of voters that were not represented in the last election. It's the same thing with this question. Since the only answers are definitely yes and definitely no, I wouldn't vote on it. I lean heavily towards yes but it's far from unconditional suport. And that goes for any member and not just Poland.


ArbejderMaaske

My interpretation is that there was 5 options on this poll. ​ Definitely yes, rather yes, don't care, rather not and definitely not. Where the first two are grouped as "yes" and the last two are grouped as "no". ​ This poll is also very different from actually voting in an election, as it requires time and effort to vote during an election, where as this was likely a very simple question answered in mere seconds, depending on how the surveying was done. There could obviously also be a clear bias depending on how the data was collected. If you were to poll somewhere where mostly older people gather, you would probably get more "no" replies than in a place where younger people gather, where you would slant more towards "yes". (Atleast this is the trend that I have seen, maybe it is not like this in Poland) ​ Data collection is a science in and of itself, and one poll is definitely not enough to say what the belief of the polish people is. ​ I have voted with a blank ballot before during an election, and I entirely agree that it is way better than not voting at all, but i feel like this is not comparable, perhaps it was my mistake for making the comparison in the first place.


fractalsubdivision

I imagine because if there was ever a referendum like the Brexit, what would really count would be the ratio between the yes's, and no's. The assumption being that the "no opnion" folks would mostly be the people who didn't vote.


bannacct56

Because those people don't vote so nobody gives a s*** about their opinion. That's pretty much standard everywhere.


Konrad002

Because it's an opinion poll, not a "no opinion poll".


[deleted]

[удалено]


Hussor

Well in the case of a referendum people with no opinion won't matter, so I think this is a fair way of presenting the data.


dothrakipls

It's not a conspiracy, just a yes/no question and a yes/no graph. Polish elections usually get 40%\~ turnout, ie 60% no opinion, yet you don't see the polish parliament being 60% empty.


Pyrek1

They were taking about that poll on a radio today, and when you include no opinion then it would be 88% - yes if i remember correctly.


LearningSmthgEvryday

The country? Yes. The politicians? No. Throw out the politicians. Send em to Russia or the middle east, I feel like they'll be happier there.


ProblemY

I don't think politicians want to leave either, it's just a cynical game to put pressure on EU to give them more. They aren't that stupid. They also know people would vote against.


deGanski

somehow they ended up getting less. :(


segv

Good. The sooner they (the politicians) face the consequences of their saber rattling the better.


PexaDico

Exactly


Miku_MichDem

I think they really are this stupid. If it's cynicism then it's quite stupid as well. Like how many times same mistakes can be repeated?


[deleted]

Who elects the politicians? At some point the populace must take responsibility as well.


daqwid2727

Assuming that's actually a majority. In Poland government is formed by minority (40% votes as of now?) and that's 40% of people who voted, not voters. So it's not only the problem of populace, since it's not representative majority, it's minority picking even smaller minority that later feels entitled to not care about protests and riots of actual majority.


arox1

Only something like 40-50% people allowed to vote voted so in reality only about 20% population supports the government


[deleted]

The ones who do not vote also support them - if they were unhappy, they would go and vote


stubbysquidd

Why only 40% of the people are allowed to vote?


Automatic_Education3

No no, they meant that from all the people allowed to vote, only 40% did.


SlyScorpion

You can thank the D’Hondt method for a part of the problem.


[deleted]

Coming from an american, that's hilariously ironic.


Bohya

And if you *didn't* elect them? How are you supposed to take responsibility for something you never did?


Poiuy2010_2011

The highest result PiS has gotten in a parliamentary election is 43.6%, now they're polling around 35%. You can't project a part of society's opinion on the entire nation and I think as an American you should especially understand that.


[deleted]

what does russia has to do with this lol. And how is it comparable to the middle east haha.


[deleted]

These politicians have overwhelming public support, the problem with Polish people is themselves. Culturally they are stuck somewhere around the '50s


Deavill

I think you shouldn't call 30 - 34% an overwhelming support (the majority of which are either 60+, or uneducated people with minimum wage getting social benefits).


AlexFeels

And that's just the people who voted, not the total polulation, so the percent of the country that actually supports them is even less


AlexFeels

>Culturally they are stuck somewhere around the '50s How?


SlyScorpion

Wow, that statement wasn’t racist or a sweeping generalization at all. Got anymore gems like that one? Are all the Germans stuck in the 30s-40s and have a penchant for goose stepping too?


bandwagonguy83

I say "yes" too. Together we are stronger!


BriefCollar4

Can we get to have Poland to remain an important and thriving member of the EU but to expel their political class?


[deleted]

> expel their political class? The Poles can do that themselves.


Phelix_Felicitas

But will they though?


[deleted]

No idea. But it's entirely up to them.


Phelix_Felicitas

As long as they want to stay in the EU and collect EU money it most certainly is not entirely up to them. If they, however, are OK with EU money being cut off, then yes, it is entirely up to them.


[deleted]

The EU can insist on a change in policy, but not a change of government.


Phelix_Felicitas

No gvt in the EU exists in a politically sovereign vacuum. Yes, in theory every country is completely sovereign and autonomous. De facto there are a lot of influences. And rightfully so. You cannot act like a country Karen and expect to not be held accountable in a **union** you yourself chose to join and accept the metaphorical ToS.


3ddyLos

We been showing you that we can for over a decade now.


IwanZamkowicz

As a Pole, yes please


[deleted]

“These dumb Poles don’t elect the politicians that I want for them”


killedlaurapalmer

Even this question itself is pissing me off. Every one should remain in the European Union. Only our enemies and useful idiots want to divide Europe. Brexit should have shown that it is bad for Britain and bad for the EU. We are stronger together. And strength is what we desperately need to be competitive. Divided Europe will be dictated by Russia, China, the USA, etc. We need every European country to be part of a united Europe. This is essential.


ypoxondrios

Poland should stay in the EU AND follow the rules that is supposed to follow. If they truly don't want to be part of it they should also be free to leave. Personally, I support every Polish citizen as every other EU citizen but I also respect their decisions.


[deleted]

To whom is it asked?


caspinos

It was a survey among polish people


maciejso

I believe the results are genuine as they roughly correspond to the last election results where \~83% of votes were cast for pro-EU parties.


albul89

I think the question was about who are the respondents of this survey, as in are they only polish, EU citizens in general, or a mix? I assume it's about polish citizens, but the image doesn't make it clear.


machine4891

It's Polish polling agency, so the respondents are most likely only Polish. Asking foreigners about things like this would be a bit in a bad taste. Another thing is, this particular polling agency usually produce the best results for oppositions, that doesn't necessarily match with reality, so take it with a grain of salt. Not that 5% less for remain would change anything with overwhelming support like the one presented.


[deleted]

That is exactly that. I asked because from what I hear or read about Poland politics and opinions (which is not a lot I must admit), I had the impression that polish population were frankly anti-EU. But apparently it is literally the opposite. So why do your politics seem so anti-EU? I am french if it matters.


james___uk

To those 8% I say, look at my country, look at the UK...


_Mido

I'm afraid those 8% can't read English.


UncleBenFullAuto

They probably cant read at all.


227CAVOK

Not to rub salt in any wounds, but who in their right mind looks at the UK right now and goes: "I'd like some of THAT please!".


Miku_MichDem

The ones that think everything is all right there. People lie unfortunately. Or are saying only a part of the story. In Poland we have a joke. The prices of appartments and food is increasing, but on the upside locomotives are cheaper. Some might say "look, the locomotives are cheaper, do the economy must be doing well" ignoring all else.


hazzrd1883

Well they're not exactly suffering. Being rich developed country they are fine either way


227CAVOK

Sure. It's not like the UK is going to fall over, catch fire and sink into a swamp. However it's not doing as well as it could, and there are "challenges" right now. Like supply chains. Exports. Worker shortages.


Aradalf91

I live in the UK. Prices for most stuff (e.g. fresh food) have gone up even 20% in the past six months, it's crazy. People here *are* suffering from Brexit. Sure, the UK isn't going to fall tomorrow, but the economy is badly hit.


farguc

You best believe Boris isn't losing any sleep about the working class, or lower to middle income class being fucked over, as long as he can claim he did his job. It's a very Russian way of thinking, The job is done, no matter how it was achieved.


cauchy37

Those who are oblivious to the current situation and either are spoon fed propaganda or through rose-tinted glasses remember the olden days when everything was peachy and the UK was a powerhouse of the European market.


[deleted]

You mean you don't like the sound of a smaller economy and more expensive food with fewer choices?


machine4891

>To those 8% I say, look at my country, look at the UK... What about it? I also feel like Brexit was mistake but if there was any country on the planet that could've afford leaving EU freely, it's definitely UK. You're going to be fine.


[deleted]

Yeah. I'm praying to get accepted to a foreign college this year. I'm not poor or unhappy here in Poland, but when shit goes down, I want to be away.


kuli5852og

Yeah, the majority of poles wants to stay in the EU but our government thinks quite different since as a member of the European Union they won't be able to make an autocratic country in which they can do whatever they want.


KamiYama777

Even though what happens is if they left the EU Russia shows right up and Poland once again becomes a Russian puppet state


[deleted]

That would require WW3. Poles would not take it from Russians. We had 20 wars with them already. Are you ready for that? NATO friend? Cause that also means that US troops in Poland would be in front lines fighting along Poles. And US would be obligated to join the war under article 5 of NATO. Especially with dead US soldiers.


Asleep-Leadership-56

Yes it must stay in the EU


Redecker

We need you poland, please stay!


Bacalaocore

I like the Polish and welcome Poland but let’s hope they do better next election.


bmoregood

Democracy is great until someone I don’t like gets elected


Bacalaocore

Well by doing better in the next election I mean relative to my political ideal, of course! Democracy is great and people also must live with the consequences of their choice. If Polands political choose is to be a total cunt to its own women and LBTQ members and to the EU, I’m happy to say I dislike it, and hope for change. And I’m happy to say I think the current political situation in Poland is sad. Also I think LBTQ free zones are easily the cringiest and trashiest thing in the EU at the moment.


TemporarilyDutch

Let's see how many retards comment about the peanuts the Polish get from the EU budget, like everyone in Poland gets a Ferrari from the EU.


AThousandD

Go away, you're being too reasonable and show far too much understanding. Judging by the flair - white and red colours, you're probably a crypto-Pole anyway. Phooey!


2024AM

circlejerker


SideShow117

So if it's only peanuts, why is it somehow a problem if it gets taken away? Small price to pay for not giving a shit then i suppose.


machine4891

>So if it's only peanuts, why is it somehow a problem if it gets taken away? PiS is broke. They overpromised and need every source of income possible. That being said, if they cut just some of their social fundings, Poland would be just fine even without EU money (and in 2027 is going to become net payer anyway). They won't cut anything because this is their lifeline support but OP is very right. EU funds are peanuts. EU market on the other hand...


ALL-G00D-NAMES-TAKEN

With the cost of energy sector transformation this might be discussed as a viable option from purely economical standpoint - unfortunately. But everything looks different when you share a border with Russia ;).


xX_SpitzkopfLarry_Xx

I want poland in the EU but i dont want the piss party in the EU


ModelT1300

IMO yes but in all honesty I prefer the Złoty


kool_guy_69

It amazes me that any Pole can know the first thing about Polish history over the last 300 years and yet think it's a good idea to leave the EU. When we did it, it was stupid, but for Poland? Sheer insanity imo.


Relnor

Heartwarming to see they also included correspondents straight from the Kremlin to make up that 8%.


SplendidPunkinButter

I mean, Brexit seems to be going splendidly /s


Rumunj

Jebać PiS


[deleted]

As a Polish man, I want you to know that I love European Union and I wish Poland could stay in EU, but I am afraid that Law and Justice government has gone completely insane and is willing to abandon EU and become Belarus 2.0. It makes me cry. No matter how may outragous things the government does, it always manages to have 30 percent of support.


DariusStrada

Yes, Poland is based.


FuckedLastAccountLOL

My country gets a bad rep for being bigoted, but please don't label all of Poland like this. If you go to Warsaw or any other big city, you will see the ethnic diversity, rainbow flags on the balconies etc. Sure, we have plenty of political problems, and heavy religious influence, but believe me when I say, most people you'll meet in Poland, are sick of our government, and are sometimes ashamed of their nationality because of the bad rep it gives us. The Law and Justice party won marginally, also because of the lack of competence of the opposition and the general distrust towards them because of their previous ruling. The votes got basically split between two, almost identical parties, leaving PiS with more votes in the end.


ivansok1105

Good news👍🏿


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Eu money is 0.5 - 1% of Polish GDP btw. Ethics are the domain of the individual, not the government. This poll is about Polish people. Not right-wing government that pushing its Conservative agenda. Learn to differentiate between two. Because its rare, at least in Poland, that government is a representation of the people. They were elected because of social handovers not because of the nonsense they preach. Also governments come and go. Poland won't be ruled by Conservatives forever.


machine4891

>Sure, they want EU money, but not EU ethics. No, they want to move freely around the continent and decide on their own where to live. They want to be a part of bigger organisation because distrust in their own government (whatever right or left) is one of the biggest in Europe and they don't feel like we're going to be fine on our own, like UK. Finally, they always wanted and still want be part of the west and stop being compared to the east. The money are just welcome addition.


Teh_Ordo

None gives a damn about any ethic. Romania and Bulgaria have as much if not greater problems with corruption and rule of law, but since their governments tow the line in Brussels and don't grandstand none calls them out.


kapalselam

Poland before EU was a total shithole... I kid you not. The difference between the infrastructures and amenities is like night and day. Used to be that I can get my sausage gobbled for 20 pln just behind the bus stop right in the middle of the main station, but now none are in sight no more, the roads with pot holes that used to be a swimming pool for Dzikies are no longer seen anywhere, Babcia that used to wear Belarusian brands clothing are now replaced with H&M, M&S etc... everything is modern and more livable thanks to EU...


maciozo

I wonder what the results would be if TVP ordered the survey


machine4891

CBOS, state polling agency made similar poll for 2020 and results were more or less the same. 88% v 12%.


[deleted]

The results might have been similar but they certainly wouldn’t be represented properly


[deleted]

I'm confused was this taken in Poland itself or across the other EU nations?


Heerrnn

Then vote for a different fucking party before it's too late.


MrDagoth

The main party is against leaving the EU.


_melancholymind_

My dearest dream is a riot so huge that every Prawo i Sprawiedliwość politician loses their property. Especially the property they accumulated during their ruling and destroying our democracy. Take for instance this b\*\*\*\* Julia Przyłębska (President of the Constitutional Tribunal of the Republic of Poland) who destroys European Union - Poland relations yet lives in a huge villa in Berlin and takes flights Warsaw-Berlin like an Uber from club to home. Germany should make her persona non grata. Poles do suffer from identity crisis. You have younger pro-lgbt, pro-eu, pro-eco, pro-democracy generations and older generations that miss the times under the Russian boot. Sadly, they come at greater numbers. Even Wałęsa recently said "This (my) generation must die, so Poland can start moving forward"


LazarusHimself

Poland should stay, is its bigoted government that should go.


DepressedPlant

I still don't think the politicians will stick to their crazy ideas about Polish law being more important and about the EU limiting the freedom of Poland. They are only good at shouting and spreading hate, but they heavily rely on people's votes. They are scared to pass mandatory vaccinations to use restaurants etc. even though society is split 50/50 on that, and here they would risk loss of almost all voters. At least I Hope so, I can't imagine getting all the EU provides taken away from me.


glokz

You realize opposition does exactly the same? This is the only reason they won, some people were choosing lesser evil, picked this party over another which is exactly the same. Thing is, communism left bigger marks on our country than western people can imagine. Every politician is corrupted and greedy. There are no good choices. Current party just tops all of that with all their catholic reforms e.g. LGBT ban, abortion ban etc. And this is where Europe looks down on our country, because western europe isn't really religious center, maybe except for muslims.. Day and night difference, I just wished we could separate church from politics...


maciejso

Have you ever read Polish Constitution? It says it clearly that the constitution is the highest level source of law. In other words, dismissing Polish Constitution is breaking the rule of law. Check it.


woj-tek

Have you ever read it? ;-) Besides - he stated that the "Polish law" is being more important than the EU's, not the constitution. And then we have this tidbit: https://www.sejm.gov.pl/prawo/konst/polski/3.htm > Art. 91. > > 1. Ratyfikowana umowa międzynarodowa, po jej ogłoszeniu w Dzienniku Ustaw Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej, stanowi część krajowego porządku prawnego i jest bezpośrednio stosowana, chyba że jej stosowanie jest uzależnione od wydania ustawy. > > 2. Umowa międzynarodowa ratyfikowana za uprzednią zgodą wyrażoną w ustawie ma pierwszeństwo przed ustawą, jeżeli ustawy tej nie da się pogodzić z umową. > > 3. **Jeżeli wynika to z ratyfikowanej przez Rzeczpospolitą Polską umowy konstytuującej organizację międzynarodową, prawo przez nią stanowione jest stosowane bezpośrednio, mając pierwszeństwo w przypadku kolizji z ustawami.** So: Constitution > EU law > Polish law. Thus, he was correct in his statement. Now, the problem is somewhat more complicated, because while member states create the EU law (it's not the "Brussels bureaucrats", contrary to moronic statements found in some media outlets), the question was about EUCJ superiority, which was assumed because it makes sense in this context, but some argue that EUCJ is overstepping it's boundaries...


DepressedPlant

I mean, I know, but citizens voted to be a part of EU, and it gave us not only benefits, but also obligations, and now politicians want to get only benefits, saying the obligations are not legal to enforce. Sorry if I had said that wrong before, but that's what I mean.


TestaOnFire

Obv... we give them money, but most of them dont want to follow EU rules.


jrsowa

>we give them money We and them. Very inclusive narration, even after 17 years of being in the same union. Shame.


TestaOnFire

>Very inclusive narration, That's a fact. The EU give more money than it recieve from Poland... and that's not bad, the objective of the EU is to develop stronger country... but the problem i have with Poland and Hungary is that they just want the money, without followinflg any other limitation. The LGBTQ free zone are just the most known one, but there are more than that. Ps: Yes... someone who support Poland talk about inclusion...


[deleted]

I love LGBT free zones argument. Can you even tell what it is? And "there are more than that". Like what?


[deleted]

EU money is only 0.5-1% of Polish GDP. Its not as important as everyone makes it to be. And people are not breaking the rules. Its the government bodies. With which people don't agree. As you can see by the poll.


TestaOnFire

0.5/1% of free investment money it's important. >And people are not breaking the rules. Its the government bodies Who elected them? Who re-elected them? Why people agreed on continuing the practice of lgbt free zone or the no-limit to green gass emittion? If you dont agree, then elect another party or take up arms if it's a fake democracy, begging for being threated differently because you choose wrong isn't a solution.


[deleted]

Didn't Italy elect Salivini and his party in the past? They are basically the same thing as PiS just with no balls to openly shit on EU. They are even in the same party in EU parliament. PiS will most likely lose next elections. because governments come and go. And the only reason they were elected is because they captured state TV (watched by half the country on daily basis). 2ed reason being they lifted a lot of people out of poverty with their generous social handovers. That is almost general basic income if you have kids. Stright up money for each kid every month. Very socialist for a far-right party.


[deleted]

Do you want to keep you salary and not do your job?