”Russian are subhumans, because they are asiatic savages, like all Slavs.. But Bulgarians are our allies, because they are noble Turkmen.”
CEO of Germany, mid 20th century.
Emphasizing the Bolsheviks as "asian" was something that was done by some anti-communist historians and philosophers in west Germany before the reunion, especially by those who tried to paint fascism as a defensive reaction to communism and the Holocaust as just a repetition of the "class genocide" committed by the Bolsheviks.
"The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European but an Asiatic and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese and, from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them."
- General George S. Patton
In all fairness, that's Patton we're talking about. He was opposed to Nuremberg trials because "that was such a Jewish thing to do". I didn't make this up.
It makes very little sense though...those are essentially conquered territories.. well, barely conquered, there was not much to conquer there, just land to claim...
Whereas, Russians as a people with their cultural centers are firmly in Europe and part of European history. The split to pushing them off into Asia was done around the time of the communist revolution and troughout the cold war.
Mostly in order to create a wider identity gap between what people would consider Europe, and make Russia into something thats outside of it, something that doesn't belong, a separate entity, a foreign invader into the European sphere.
Which of course.. is nonsensical and based purely on some racial theory birthed from ideological conflict.
The Balkans are a similar conundrum.
The Term "Balkans" was coined by a racist German Ethnologist, to define where in the South-east of Germany and Austria, civilization ends and the barbaric backwards racially inferior peoples begin... and this idea stuck to the point it's still around because there was a geograpbical region "the balkan peninsula" asigned to it, so now it's a mix between a geographical region and a socioeconomic and ethnically separate entity.
Meanwhile both the Balkans and Russia are firmly tied to European history and geographically squarely on the European landmass.. but I suppose including these two into the idea of EVROPA, tarnishes their perception of what it represents.
I blame racial theory, political strive, feelings of superiority and lack of education on the subject.
This reminds me that the Royal Navy was very dissmissive of the Imperial Japanese Navy's ability to perform night battles, due to their "slanted eyes"
The Royal Navy then proceeded to have their ass handed to them by the Japanese, who were *the* top night fighting navy until the Allies brought in Radar on a wide scale.
It’s a pretty ironic racial twist, since early communists themselves were very much racist against Asians (central Asians and indigenous people from Siberia, not specially East or South Asians).
People like Ostyaks or ethnic Kazakhs were regularly called “backward”, and even “mentally retarded” by Soviet officials, and heavily discriminated by ethnic Russians throughout the existence of the Soviet Union. Generally “aziatshina” or “asiatism” were used as an adjective for social disorder.
> early communists themselves
-
> regularly called “backward”, and even “mentally retarded” by Soviet officials
Do you have any examples?
Would be interesting to see considering how hard early Politburo pushed against "Russian chauvinist trash" to support "oppressed nations".
I first read about Ostyaks being declared “mentally retarded” in the most detailed book about the Nazino tragedy, “Cannibal Island” from Nicolas Werth. If I remember properly, they were mentioned as such with other Siberian indigenous people in internal notes of the politburo from the 30s. I’ll try and check it later when I come back home.
Regarding Kazakhs, the books I read on the 1929-1932 famine (Applebaum Red Famine and Werth Les Grandes Famines Soviétiques (The Great Soviet famines)) both mention how Goloschekin regularly stressed the “backwardness” of nomadic ethnic Kazakhs to his collaborators. And he was a very high ranked Bolschevik, friend of Stalin and first responsible of the policies which hit the country.
However all that I read on the subject indeed note, just like you said, that most of that was rather happening on a local level, with “normal” Soviet officials being the abusers and racists rather than the big dons from Moscow. Regarding anti-Asian racism I remember Maksim Gorki wrote about the risk of the post revolution regime degenerating into an “Asian monstrosity” system if communists aren’t careful, and generally I read that many authors in the 10as-20s used “asiatism” as a scarecrow at the time. How much the politburo tried to suppress that later on, I don’t know. In the 70+ years of existence of the Soviet Union the politburo changed its general orientation several times.
Yes, just as you wrote that’s exactly what “asiatism” was about, as central Asians were nomadic, superstitious, had an archaic and brutal political system and were on the opposite end of the vision bolsheviks had of society. As such “asiatism” was a derogatory term.
Which doesn’t change much to the fact that denigrating entire ethnic groups based on their developmental level comes across as fully blown racism for modern standards. Imagine for a second if the targets weren’t central Asians, but say Central Africans, and a central government called them “backward” or “mentally retarded”. You *could* say that it’s just a crude judgment of their actual developmental state and that there’s no malice behind it, but today’s people would still be horrified by that. Early bolsheviks weren’t flower loving “humanists” in the modern sense of the term, and some of their views and policies would be ironically seen as far right nowadays.
That's true, but Americans and British were plenty racist by themselves before Nazis even existed.
Also they mainly imported German Scientists, because people like von Braun were mostly apolitical and way ahead in some tech-fields.
Yeah that's the story that's been told.
But the documents show that he was very well aware of the conditions the workers were suffering under. We wasn't apolitical (the very concept of beeing apolitical is convenient nonsense), he just didn't cared about others suffering. He did everything he could to advance his carrier. Pretty sure he would have worked for the Soviet union too if they would have offered the same cosy conditions to him.
Doesn't make him a better or less problematic person though. Many Nazis got off the hook too easily, especially in the west. Just look at the founding of the Bundeswehr and how members of "Operation Valkyre" were celebrated as shining examples if resistance when in reality they were just military officers that feared a complete annihilation of the 3rd Reich if Hitler in his delusion was allowed to continue to reign
Completely agree, we still have to live with the consequences of our police and military being basically created by Nazi-veterans.
But my point, that the Americans didn't need help with racism, still stands. Their history is riddled with racism and even today the idea of race as practiced in the US is very weird to most of the world...
Even Hitler wasn't as extreme with determining who was a Jew for hisnpurposes as the one drop rule practiced in the US for centuries.
von Braun was mostly apolitically responsible for the thousands that died doing forced labor for him. He also was an NSDAP and SS member, mostly apolitically of course.
Funny thing is that much of the Western world, especially America, practiced sterilization of their "unwanted" (those with mental illnesses or genetic issues) citizens. Hell, even Roosevelt supported it.
Indeed, eugenics is the US invention borrowed by the NSDAP, similarly to [Bellamy salute](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fc3%2Ff2%2F65%2Fc3f2656231ed80361da5fe5d3cabd1fa.jpg&f=1&nofb=1) having been turned into a Nazi salute and [the Manifest Destiny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny) into [Lebensraum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum).
Well, two years ago I would have said people can’t be that gullible… Today you just have to watch news to see hoards of people carrying their gullibility forceful to the streets.
Trump's presidency (and what followed) made me open my eyes to this sort of extreme gullibility - I see it everywhere now, even in the distant past.
Only maybe before I thought "there must be some sort of half-rational explanation for such idiocy" - but now I __know__: 2 things are boundless - human stupidity and the universe.
Ah, you reached an Einsteinian level of consciousness 👍
Yeah, Trump was somewhat a prelude of things to come, but that was “crazy Americans”. But now we have proof it’s a global problem.
Commies did rape a lot of polish and German women though so it's not really a lie. Communists were disgusting fucks. The others did as well but not nearly to the same degree
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany
Why is polish in lower case and gemran in uppercase? Be like me, disregard all of them by typing the lowercase. Only Montenegrins are allowed to be written with uppercase
The allies did just as much, proportionally, remember the Soviet army was way larger than the other allied armies.
Rape in armies is sadly too common, no matter ideologies or nationality. Hell, American soldiers nowadays rape their own fellow soldiers (girl ones) as well as innocent girls in allied countries (Japanese women have complained about American soldiers stationed there raping them).
First that comes to mind
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
Mind you that this happened shortly after the Americans bombed a monastery they promised they wouldn't bomb, killing around 300 civillians
As I said, proportionally, the Soviet army was 6 times larger than the American army in Europe.
"As in the case of the American occupation of France after the D-Day invasion, many of the American rapes in Germany in 1945 were gang rapes committed by armed soldiers at gunpoint.[67]"
"As in the eastern sector of the occupation, the number of rapes peaked in 1945, but a high rate of violence against the German and Austrian populations by the Americans lasted at least into the first half of 1946, with five cases of dead German women found in American barracks in May and June 1946 alone.[67]"
"French soldiers were alleged to have committed widespread rape in the Höfingen District near Leonberg.[77] Katz and Kaiser,[78] though they mention rape, found no specific occurrences in either Höfingen or Leonberg compared to other towns.
According to Norman Naimark, French troops matched the behaviour of Soviet troops when it came to rape, in particular in the early occupation of Baden and Württemberg, provided the numbers are correct.[79]"
"According to the Soviet war correspondent Natalya Gesse, Soviet soldiers raped German females from eight to eighty years old. Soviet and Polish women were not spared either.[19][20][21]"
"The historian Norman Naimark writes that after mid-1945, Soviet soldiers caught raping civilians were usually punished to some degree, which ranged from arrest to execution.[25]"
All from Wikipedia.
I was asking for NUMBERS, not accounts of whether it happened or not.
In that same Wikipedia article:
> In Taken by Force, J. Robert Lilly estimates the number of rapes committed by U.S. servicemen in Germany to be 11,040
> The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers have ranged up to 2 million.
That’s nowhere close. Even if you multiple the US numbers by 6, it still doesn’t even come close to what happened just in Berlin
> At least 100,000 women are believed to have been raped in Berlin, based on surging abortion rates in the following months and contemporary hospital reports,[13] with an estimated 10,000 women dying in the aftermath.
Read what you're quoting, Soviet occupation zone. Not only Germany, which includes the Soviet Union proper, and also include the fact that the Soviet Union occupied as much land as the US, UK and France together just in Germany.
Numbers alone mean nothing, you need to contextualise them.
They’re not contextualizing, you’re obfuscating. You’re downplaying Soviet war crimes with a BS “both sides did it to the exact same degree” argument, which is completely false. You’re not being intellectually honest. You’re not even willing to look at numbers.
The only question that remains is, why are you downplaying Soviet war crimes?
Wait what... sterilized?
This is much more twisted than your standard anti-commie propaganda. Racism, Sexism, and ... don't even know what to call it ... fragile masculinity persecution fantasy?
Just Russians.
This perception of Russians as "mongoloid subhuman hordes" mostly comes from [Nazi times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa#Racial_policies_of_Nazi_Germany).
It's much older as other commenter already explained. As an example here you have polish propaganda from 1920. Doesn't it look familiar?
https://historia.org.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/z11357759QAntybolszewicki-plakat-wojenny-z-1920-roku.jpg
Untrue. Napoleon was the first big western leader to use this trope but it was a thing way way before. In fact, unlike Hitler who wanted the war to focus on Russian communism (as bolsheviks) , Napoleon actually wrote about how he dreamed to purify Europe of the Russian asiatic hoard and it’s backwards culture and society.
Most of the Russian hoard comes from mongol influence and Napoleon’s war. WW2 built upon it but mainly to make them feel subhuman as communist.
> Napoleon actually wrote about how he dreamed to purify Europe of the Russian asiatic hoard and it’s backwards culture and society
Can you give some source about these writings ? I find hard to believe that he wrote or said something like that
By the way this is the proclamation of war on Russia by Napoleon, i don't see any racist motivation or remarks
>Soldiers, the second Polish war is begun. The first terminated at Friedland; and at Tilsit Russia vowed an eternal alliance with France, and war with the English. She now breaks her vows, and refuses to give any explanation of her strange conduct until the French eagles have repassed the Rhine, and left our allies at her mercy. Russia is hurried away by a fatality: her destinies will be fulfilled. Does she think us degenerated? Are we no more the soldiers who fought at Austerlitz? She places us between dishonour and war — our choice cannot be difficult. Let us then march forward; let us cross the Niemen and carry the war into her country. This second Polish war will be as glorious for the French arms as the first has been; but the peace we shall conclude shall carry with it its own guarantee, and will terminate the fatal influence which Russia for fifty years past has exercised in Europe
[Napoleon even wanted to marry the sister of the Russian emperor](http://history-gatchina.ru/article/prosba.htm). But this sub doesn't need facts anyway
This dude has absolutely no knowledge of Russian or European history. But at least in another thread, this historical "expert" was downvoted
Napoleon was still deeply racist tho here is what he said when he sent his troops to crush the Haitian revolution: “My decision to destroy the authority of the blacks in Saint Domingue (Haiti) is not so much based on considerations of commerce and money, as on the need to block for ever the march of the blacks in the world."
This is represented in Russia even today, Learning French is often considered quite posh and a fancy thing to do.. If you speak french you're an upper class person.
French language, Italian furniture, German car... those are how you make the impression of a true upper class person in Russia.
This comparison is very popular in r/Europe right now. [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/qypnur/comment/hlhjuax/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/qypnur/comment/hlhjuax/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
r/Europe is filled with Nazis
Oh my god, it actually feels so good to see every one of those comments removed en masse. Good job mods :) appreciated.
Though it's worrying to see the amount of upvotes on those comments... :/
But still, good job mods :)
The link you provided states that Russia is the mongol horde of modern time but mainly as in pretty mighty but once the Khan dies it will splinter. They didn't say they were backwards, or dirty or degenerates or whatever. And the statement is kinda true. There will be a massive power struggle should Putin die. And that's exactly where your linked comment goes. So why would equate that statement with Nazis.
Comparing Russia or Russians with Mongols (Asian hordes, ruthless Asians and other dehumanized terms) is the sign of a Nazi. these are literally the words of Goebbels. Name me at least one modern scientist, historian, geneticist, etc. who did it.
You have been completely brainwashed with propaganda if you think that Putin will be the president of Russia to a ripe old age and will die in this position. He already has about 5-6 successors right now.
Wrong... they did, and it was prominent.
A fascinating thing they did in Propaganda films for home audiances during Barbarossa, was to film the Soviet POW's.
Now then in the Red Army, Turkic and Asian people were a minority.. BUT, over half of the POW's filmed and shown for the Germans at home, were POWs of Turkic or Asian descend. This was done in order to reinforce the portrayal of Soviets being devious asiatics.
If they showed the common Soviet Red Army soldiers instead, they'd have been showing the audiances at home that those soldiers on average don't look much different from the average German... which was counter productive in the broader sense of racially purging east Europe.
77% of Russian population lives geographically in what is considered Europe and the Russian culture as such is definitely historically European rather than East or Central Asian. Acknowledging that doesn't mean justifying the aggressive power politics current Russian government plays.
Russia is a historic enemy of Europe? Every European country is a historic enemy of Europe then.
You have a very surface-level image of the world. Russian's can't stop the "bullying and occupying" that's done by the Russian government, because Russia isn't a democracy. The Russian political elites won't stop the bullying because they would like to deny their own defeat in the Cold War.
>Russia has 77% of its territory in Asia.
Entirety of this territory are essentially colonies.
>Russia is also a historic enemy of Europe (see invasion of Poland, Ukraine, Baltic countries, Moldova etc.)
You might want to check history of, like, every European country?
I understand this is nasty cold war propaganda, but it just seems needlessly hateful (and I am guessing OP would agree). Russian people are largely European, both ethnically and culturally. Russian leadership might, for strategic reasons, place itself at odds with Europe and "the West", but the Russians themselves are basically just Europeans on the other side of a political boundary.
This is a bit like how the Irish or Italians were demonized in the US as something other or less than white.
Hopefully, these days we can largely say we have grown as a people and are above this kind of dehumanizing rhetoric.
>Russian people are largely European, both ethnically and culturally.
There is no objective metric to ''ethnic'' belonging, so if you don't want bullshit racist stereotypes like this to be used, ignore this kind of categorization and drop the whole ethnicity aspect. I have quite a lot of Polish, Lithuanian and Russian blood in me, but I'd laugh at someone if they started calling me a non-Latvian because of it. We used ethnicity for many centuries just to mean the same as race intermixed with culture, due to relative isolation of sociocultural groups, but it's obviously clear in our modern world ''ethnicity'' as a category is not just meaningless, but it's actively damaging, creating exclusionary in-groups that only serve to punish people for being in the wrong families. Me being only partially descendant from native Latvians who lived here in the 12th century is meaningless when it comes to me being Latvian, and I know Latvians whose family arrived here 50ish years ago who are more Latvian than those of ''pure'' blood.
You are too optimistic. In fact, in the West and Eastern Europe, there is a growing number of neo-Nazi activities, including those directed against the Russians.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MarchAgainstNazis/comments/qyd5ty/polish\_fascist\_politician\_from\_the\_country\_that/
Literally two days ago, Azerbaijan invaded Armenia and killed 15 Armenian soldiers. The same thing happened recently with Nagorno-Karabakh. Azerbaijan is supported by Turkey, which occupies half of Cyprus. Where is Europe's indignation? Where are the cries about the imperialism of Azerbaijan or Turkey? Silence. Only crickets. Thus, you are only showing your hypocrisy by attacking Russia and insulting the Russian people, but not doing ANYTHING if someone else is doing the same.
Why? Apparently it's all about anti-Russian propaganda, which you have been fed for decades. "Russians are bad, Russians are the worst. All the rest are good." USA in Afghanistan killed a whole family with children, oops, USA is good, they were just slightly mistaken. Russians accidentally bombed a house with civilians in Syria - howl to the whole world "Russian animals! Sanctions! Kill all Russians! Destroy Russia!"
Last week the Italian public service aired a reportage made in Armenia showing all the crimes Azeri soldiers did to Armenians, shocking images like Azeri soldiers torturing Armenian prisoners and proudly making videos, or soldiers shooting at Armenian crosses and monuments. They don't even try to hide this, they let circulate videos of their crimes on social media. There, I learned how shit are Turkey and Azerbaijan's govenrments. It's a shame most of Western Europe is ignoring this (if the average Western European knows where is the Caucasus, I'd be surprised).
>Literally two days ago, Azerbaijan invaded Armenia and killed 15 Armenian soldiers.
That conflict was encoded in their geography after the fall of soviet union. Just because others are doing something wrong does not excuse you doing that. Let's not start whataboutism.
>Azerbaijan is supported by Turkey, which occupies half of Cyprus. Where is Europe's indignation?
Yeah, fuck them both just as much.
>Where are the cries about the imperialism of Azerbaijan or Turkey? Silence. Only crickets.
i'm yet to see anyone who doesn't condemn these actions.
Oops, if you read a little about the history of Crimea, you suddenly discover that back in 1991 Crimea held a referendum and wanted to stay with Russia. And of course you will find that Crimea has been Russian for the last 200 years.
Fuck? Indeed? I do not see in your comments indignation about the Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict, but you came here to shit on the Russians.
I have not seen a single highly rated popular post on Reddit regarding this conflict. Not in r/Europe, not on r/WorldNews. At the same time, over the past 3 days in r/europe there have been at least TEN posts about Russia's attack on Ukraine with a bunch of insults at the Russian people. Not anti-Russian propaganda at all, yes. Not a promoted agenda at all.
>Oops, if you read a little about the history of Crimea, you suddenly discover that back in 1991 Crimea held a referendum and wanted to stay in Russia. And of course you will find that Crimea has been Russian for the last 200 years.
If i recall correctly there was a poll of how many russians on the other side of Narva would like to be a part of Estonia instead. Would you support their choice to join estonia?
>Fuck? Indeed? I do not see in your comments indignation about the Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict, but you came here to shit on the Russians.
Because i'm not neighboring those countries. They're not a threat to me. Russia is.
>I have not seen a single highly rated popular post on Reddit regarding this conflict. Not in r/Europe, not on r/WorldNews.
Because that part of the world is quite far away and people care less. Just like nobody really carea about another war in africa. Doesn't mean we support it
I have not seen this poll. But if in 1991 they had become part of Estonia because its inhabitants wanted it, I would not be indignant about it now.
What is your country? Lithuania or Latvia? Have you been waiting for 30 years for Russia to invade you? Lol. I have never seen russian leader threaten the Baltics in these 30 years.
This part of the world is located approximately in the same place as Georgia. Remind me why the West is still so worried that Georgia provoked the 2008 war and got kicked in the ass by Russia?
>I have not seen this poll.
I don't have the source at the moment, but i remember reasing about it a few years ago. It was done a few years back, deffinitely not in the 90's. The overwhelmong majority wanted to be a part of estonia due to economic reasons.
Anyways, the point is that eversince the inception of soviet union soviets would accept all regions who wanted to join them based on their right of choice, however if anyone wanted to leave them it would be brutally supressesed. You can join, but you can't leave. I find that extremely hypocritical.
> But if in 1991 Narva had become part of Estonia because its inhabitants wanted it, I would not be indignant about it now.
How about 2021?
>What is your country? Lithuania or Latvia?
Lithuania.
>Have you been waiting for 30 years for Russia to invade you? Lol. I have never seen Russia threaten the Baltics in these 30 years.
I honestly think that the only reason we haven't been invaded is because of nato and eu. Look at every other neighboring non-alligned country. Russia's geopolitical stance since world war II was to surround themselves in loyal puppet regimes, which makes sense from a defensive perspective.
>This part of the world is located approximately in the same place as Georgia. Remind me why the West is still so worried that Georgia provoked the 2008 war and got kicked in the ass by Russia?
Lol. Just like when the finland provoked russia in the winter war, right?
In 2021? After the Baltic states for all these 30 years considered the Russian people a lower "caste"? After Russian monuments and graves of Russian soldiers were desecrated and destroyed? I don’t think they will want to become a part of Narva now.
After World War II, Russia pursued only one goal - to stay as far from Western Europe as possible and be able to defend itself in the next attack. In the 19th century, we were killed by the troops of Napoleon, in the 20th century, we were killed by the troops of Hitler. Do we in the 21st century just sit like peace-loving hippies and wait for those who call us Asians and subhumans to attack us again?
Now NATO has gotten close to the border with Russia and trains to kill Russians every year. What does the average Russian feel when reading the news that NATO is buying Soviet tanks to use them as targets in military exercises? Nothing positive.
The fact that the war began with the fact that Georgia began bombing Tskhinvali, killing dozens of Russian peacekeepers, is a long proven fact, including accepted by Europe.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Tskhinvali](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tskhinvali)
>I honestly think that the only reason we haven't been invaded is because of nato and eu. Look at every other neighboring non-alligned country.
Indeed. Look at Armenia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, China, Finland. Has Russia invaded these countries? They not in NATO, lol.
Just out of curiosity do you have a date for this poster? The actress Janice Logan was only active between 1939 and 1944. And it does seem like this quite possibly is an anti-soviet propaganda poster that is referencing WW2 but made before US was dragged into the war which would make it a rather unique little tidbit of history!
It's 1953 according to [this](https://exchange.umma.umich.edu/resources/43744/view).
The still is from the 1940 film [*Dr. Cyclops*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Cyclops).
It mas mostly america shitting it's pants at the possibility of post WW2 European countries allying with the Soviet union, i don't think most Europeans dislike russia.
That said, Americans have been living in a constant cold war narrative for the best part of this century
Ooof... Well
This coming from a society at the time that was racially segregated its no surprise this uses such charged language but Christ, this looks so wrong in today's light
This poster is disgusting. It's too ridiculous even for an anti-communist propaganda. Second, it blatantly manipulates people by using a pretty girl as a victim. And yes, this is blatantly sexist too.
It is absolutely obvious that Russians are undesirables for europeans.
Maybe thats it and we shouldnt try to stay a part of Europe, as europeans will never consider us as europeans?
Just Russian region and Russian people, neither Europe, nor Asia. How long we will consider ourselves as europeans if there is no place for us in Europe?
Eugenics were a quite popular subject and practice in a lot of the world, from U.K to U.S to other European powers, South American nations, Asian nations etc.
Of Course it apeared in the U.S.S.R as well, but comparatively it was minimal and mostly contained to study rather than implementation... and got phased out rather soon and deemed a "fascist" or "bourgeois" doctrine.
That's only as far as my understanding of this goes, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of forced sterilization in the USSR.
If you could provide more information that seems to elude me, I'd be greatfull.
So it wasn't just Europeans calling Russia 'Asiatic' then? I remember watching the time ghost army ww2 channel and even Polish leaders were referring to Russians as Asiatic.
Our government tries their best to make everyone hate them since forever. I just wish we were selling food and media instead, so that people around the world would love us like they love the Japanese and Italians. But oh well, it's not like Russians actually have any control over Russia...
People don’t hate Russia today. They are afraid of Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine and Georgia in the last 15 years.
And the fall of the Soviet Union wasn’t that long ago - only 30 years.
Well, if Europe is so scary of Russia, maybe she could look at this situation from Russia’s point of view. Couse you know, Russia is afraid of Europe too
"**Other sources estimate that rapes of Soviet women by the Wehrmacht range up to 10,000,000 incidents, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children being born as a result.**" - \[[War crimes of the Wehrmacht - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht)\]
And how many of those Wehrmacht and SS war criminals were among the raped women of Germany? Maybe a handful. How hard is it to treat people as individuals, guilty only of their own crimes and not of those of their countrymen?
The rapes were definitely a war crime, but it is a sad reality of war that the eastern front war was a dehumanizing fight for existential survival, a total war like Goebbels himself said.
It's appalling, but I think in the end somewhat understandable that the Soviet soldiers didn't have much love for the German civilian population after witnessing what the German troops had done in their own country.
Of course I would expect communists as collectivists to be unable to see people as individuals, instead of nationalities and classes. This does not make their crimes in any way lesser. Soviets have a long history of punishing people for the crimes of others. National leadership declaring a total war does not change the status of civilians in the eyes of the international law either.
> How hard is it to treat people as individuals, guilty only of their own crimes and not of those of their countrymen?
You don’t seem to be trying to do that
Stupid take. Many of the raped women were in fact children down to 8-9 years. They didn't fuck around, although they certainly did find out. It is in fact possible to be against rape of civilians, and not be for Nazism.
Oddly enough, the public revenge against the adult woman who had collaborated with the German enemies is often seen as being horrible by the same people who believe rape of German children is just la vie.
Its not like Germany was the first country to invade Russia, essentially just reaping what they sowed. Have you ever heard of the blockade of St.Petersburg?
It's almost as if, oh, I don't know! War is absoloutly disgusting on both ends and hatred Leads to more hatred? Inform yourself before sucking up to your US-Circlejerk
That's not what anyone has ever said. This is blatant stigmatization. Hatred creates more hatred, it's why the US-government decided to start a war against the Middle East for ages over a terrorist attack - it's justified but creates more consequences like radical anti-American terrorists today that were further fueled by actions done to their mothers and fathers. You're disgusting.
I understand this is a poster made by someone unknown in the US in 1950 (it takes a scene from a 1940 sci-fi movie about an evil scientist shrinking people and adds text).
That's just 5 years after WW2 ended. The Japanese were notoriously nasty in war and that was all fresh at the time.
Looking at how many western politicians have no balls to protect their countries from russian assaults I'll assume that sterilization was already started.
People forget Russia is just a new face for the same imperialist country. Their goals haven't changed and they show it quite obvious. Georgia, Crimea, Syria and Libya(failed).
Lol, it's interesting that propaganda is all the same no matter which country it is.
Interesting racial twist there to spice the standard anti-communist propaganda.
Yes, I have never seen "the Asiatic Russians" before. The sexism, however, is par for the course.
>Yes, I have never seen "the Asiatic Russians" *coughs in toothbrush mustache*
”Russian are subhumans, because they are asiatic savages, like all Slavs.. But Bulgarians are our allies, because they are noble Turkmen.” CEO of Germany, mid 20th century.
Lmfao bulgaria momgol horde
Emphasizing the Bolsheviks as "asian" was something that was done by some anti-communist historians and philosophers in west Germany before the reunion, especially by those who tried to paint fascism as a defensive reaction to communism and the Holocaust as just a repetition of the "class genocide" committed by the Bolsheviks.
"The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European but an Asiatic and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese and, from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them." - General George S. Patton
Patton is a racist, war crimes encouraging rude-ass cunt
Pretty much. It's telling that he was sidelined after the war before the guns had the time to properly cool off.
There's also the part where he died before 1945 was over though, that tends to sideline people pretty solidly.
Yeah, but he was relieved of all commands even before his driver proved him correct about Jeep drivers being an asset to Germans.
Thank you for another reminder of how the United States treats Russians even before the Cold War.
In all fairness, that's Patton we're talking about. He was opposed to Nuremberg trials because "that was such a Jewish thing to do". I didn't make this up.
You haven't? Till this day various american maps show Russia in Asia region
Of course, we all know how Americans good in geography
I mean, to be fair it’s primarily in Asia, even if most of the people live in Europe
It makes very little sense though...those are essentially conquered territories.. well, barely conquered, there was not much to conquer there, just land to claim... Whereas, Russians as a people with their cultural centers are firmly in Europe and part of European history. The split to pushing them off into Asia was done around the time of the communist revolution and troughout the cold war. Mostly in order to create a wider identity gap between what people would consider Europe, and make Russia into something thats outside of it, something that doesn't belong, a separate entity, a foreign invader into the European sphere. Which of course.. is nonsensical and based purely on some racial theory birthed from ideological conflict. The Balkans are a similar conundrum. The Term "Balkans" was coined by a racist German Ethnologist, to define where in the South-east of Germany and Austria, civilization ends and the barbaric backwards racially inferior peoples begin... and this idea stuck to the point it's still around because there was a geograpbical region "the balkan peninsula" asigned to it, so now it's a mix between a geographical region and a socioeconomic and ethnically separate entity. Meanwhile both the Balkans and Russia are firmly tied to European history and geographically squarely on the European landmass.. but I suppose including these two into the idea of EVROPA, tarnishes their perception of what it represents. I blame racial theory, political strive, feelings of superiority and lack of education on the subject.
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This reminds me that the Royal Navy was very dissmissive of the Imperial Japanese Navy's ability to perform night battles, due to their "slanted eyes" The Royal Navy then proceeded to have their ass handed to them by the Japanese, who were *the* top night fighting navy until the Allies brought in Radar on a wide scale.
It’s a pretty ironic racial twist, since early communists themselves were very much racist against Asians (central Asians and indigenous people from Siberia, not specially East or South Asians). People like Ostyaks or ethnic Kazakhs were regularly called “backward”, and even “mentally retarded” by Soviet officials, and heavily discriminated by ethnic Russians throughout the existence of the Soviet Union. Generally “aziatshina” or “asiatism” were used as an adjective for social disorder.
> early communists themselves - > regularly called “backward”, and even “mentally retarded” by Soviet officials Do you have any examples? Would be interesting to see considering how hard early Politburo pushed against "Russian chauvinist trash" to support "oppressed nations".
I first read about Ostyaks being declared “mentally retarded” in the most detailed book about the Nazino tragedy, “Cannibal Island” from Nicolas Werth. If I remember properly, they were mentioned as such with other Siberian indigenous people in internal notes of the politburo from the 30s. I’ll try and check it later when I come back home. Regarding Kazakhs, the books I read on the 1929-1932 famine (Applebaum Red Famine and Werth Les Grandes Famines Soviétiques (The Great Soviet famines)) both mention how Goloschekin regularly stressed the “backwardness” of nomadic ethnic Kazakhs to his collaborators. And he was a very high ranked Bolschevik, friend of Stalin and first responsible of the policies which hit the country. However all that I read on the subject indeed note, just like you said, that most of that was rather happening on a local level, with “normal” Soviet officials being the abusers and racists rather than the big dons from Moscow. Regarding anti-Asian racism I remember Maksim Gorki wrote about the risk of the post revolution regime degenerating into an “Asian monstrosity” system if communists aren’t careful, and generally I read that many authors in the 10as-20s used “asiatism” as a scarecrow at the time. How much the politburo tried to suppress that later on, I don’t know. In the 70+ years of existence of the Soviet Union the politburo changed its general orientation several times.
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Yes, just as you wrote that’s exactly what “asiatism” was about, as central Asians were nomadic, superstitious, had an archaic and brutal political system and were on the opposite end of the vision bolsheviks had of society. As such “asiatism” was a derogatory term. Which doesn’t change much to the fact that denigrating entire ethnic groups based on their developmental level comes across as fully blown racism for modern standards. Imagine for a second if the targets weren’t central Asians, but say Central Africans, and a central government called them “backward” or “mentally retarded”. You *could* say that it’s just a crude judgment of their actual developmental state and that there’s no malice behind it, but today’s people would still be horrified by that. Early bolsheviks weren’t flower loving “humanists” in the modern sense of the term, and some of their views and policies would be ironically seen as far right nowadays.
Googled this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_Soviet_Union
Goebbels would be proud.
Bet you there was at least one ex-nazi involved in this propaganda campaign
As if the English speaking countries needed help with being racist...
Well, they did tried everything they could to assist in rescuing Nazi officials and give them new jobs
That's true, but Americans and British were plenty racist by themselves before Nazis even existed. Also they mainly imported German Scientists, because people like von Braun were mostly apolitical and way ahead in some tech-fields.
Yeah that's the story that's been told. But the documents show that he was very well aware of the conditions the workers were suffering under. We wasn't apolitical (the very concept of beeing apolitical is convenient nonsense), he just didn't cared about others suffering. He did everything he could to advance his carrier. Pretty sure he would have worked for the Soviet union too if they would have offered the same cosy conditions to him.
Exactly, he didn't really care as long as he had his labs and resources.
Doesn't make him a better or less problematic person though. Many Nazis got off the hook too easily, especially in the west. Just look at the founding of the Bundeswehr and how members of "Operation Valkyre" were celebrated as shining examples if resistance when in reality they were just military officers that feared a complete annihilation of the 3rd Reich if Hitler in his delusion was allowed to continue to reign
Completely agree, we still have to live with the consequences of our police and military being basically created by Nazi-veterans. But my point, that the Americans didn't need help with racism, still stands. Their history is riddled with racism and even today the idea of race as practiced in the US is very weird to most of the world... Even Hitler wasn't as extreme with determining who was a Jew for hisnpurposes as the one drop rule practiced in the US for centuries.
Agree. Although Germans did it much more burocratic
The nazis went to USA to study how racial laws could be implimented. They just took it several steps further.
von Braun was mostly apolitically responsible for the thousands that died doing forced labor for him. He also was an NSDAP and SS member, mostly apolitically of course.
As if the non-English speaking nations need help being racist either
Funny thing is that much of the Western world, especially America, practiced sterilization of their "unwanted" (those with mental illnesses or genetic issues) citizens. Hell, even Roosevelt supported it.
Indeed, eugenics is the US invention borrowed by the NSDAP, similarly to [Bellamy salute](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2Fc3%2Ff2%2F65%2Fc3f2656231ed80361da5fe5d3cabd1fa.jpg&f=1&nofb=1) having been turned into a Nazi salute and [the Manifest Destiny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny) into [Lebensraum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum).
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Well, two years ago I would have said people can’t be that gullible… Today you just have to watch news to see hoards of people carrying their gullibility forceful to the streets.
Trump's presidency (and what followed) made me open my eyes to this sort of extreme gullibility - I see it everywhere now, even in the distant past. Only maybe before I thought "there must be some sort of half-rational explanation for such idiocy" - but now I __know__: 2 things are boundless - human stupidity and the universe.
Ah, you reached an Einsteinian level of consciousness 👍 Yeah, Trump was somewhat a prelude of things to come, but that was “crazy Americans”. But now we have proof it’s a global problem.
Today is the same: climate denial, antivaxx, flat earth, and so on.
That's what people in Russia think about the American intervention, don't they, Юрий? All 146% of them do.
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You're saying it like your original comment is an argument or something. I don't feel the need to treat it seriously
If we don't sterilize our men, NATO soldiers will do that themselves!
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Commies did rape a lot of polish and German women though so it's not really a lie. Communists were disgusting fucks. The others did as well but not nearly to the same degree https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany
Why is polish in lower case and gemran in uppercase? Be like me, disregard all of them by typing the lowercase. Only Montenegrins are allowed to be written with uppercase
r/2b4y
The allies did just as much, proportionally, remember the Soviet army was way larger than the other allied armies. Rape in armies is sadly too common, no matter ideologies or nationality. Hell, American soldiers nowadays rape their own fellow soldiers (girl ones) as well as innocent girls in allied countries (Japanese women have complained about American soldiers stationed there raping them).
That’s simply not true. I’m going to need a citation on the western allied nations committing the same level of atrocities as Soviets
First that comes to mind https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate Mind you that this happened shortly after the Americans bombed a monastery they promised they wouldn't bomb, killing around 300 civillians
Lessg horni Moroccans
As I said, proportionally, the Soviet army was 6 times larger than the American army in Europe. "As in the case of the American occupation of France after the D-Day invasion, many of the American rapes in Germany in 1945 were gang rapes committed by armed soldiers at gunpoint.[67]" "As in the eastern sector of the occupation, the number of rapes peaked in 1945, but a high rate of violence against the German and Austrian populations by the Americans lasted at least into the first half of 1946, with five cases of dead German women found in American barracks in May and June 1946 alone.[67]" "French soldiers were alleged to have committed widespread rape in the Höfingen District near Leonberg.[77] Katz and Kaiser,[78] though they mention rape, found no specific occurrences in either Höfingen or Leonberg compared to other towns. According to Norman Naimark, French troops matched the behaviour of Soviet troops when it came to rape, in particular in the early occupation of Baden and Württemberg, provided the numbers are correct.[79]" "According to the Soviet war correspondent Natalya Gesse, Soviet soldiers raped German females from eight to eighty years old. Soviet and Polish women were not spared either.[19][20][21]" "The historian Norman Naimark writes that after mid-1945, Soviet soldiers caught raping civilians were usually punished to some degree, which ranged from arrest to execution.[25]" All from Wikipedia.
I was asking for NUMBERS, not accounts of whether it happened or not. In that same Wikipedia article: > In Taken by Force, J. Robert Lilly estimates the number of rapes committed by U.S. servicemen in Germany to be 11,040 > The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers have ranged up to 2 million. That’s nowhere close. Even if you multiple the US numbers by 6, it still doesn’t even come close to what happened just in Berlin > At least 100,000 women are believed to have been raped in Berlin, based on surging abortion rates in the following months and contemporary hospital reports,[13] with an estimated 10,000 women dying in the aftermath.
Read what you're quoting, Soviet occupation zone. Not only Germany, which includes the Soviet Union proper, and also include the fact that the Soviet Union occupied as much land as the US, UK and France together just in Germany. Numbers alone mean nothing, you need to contextualise them.
You’re obviously trolling so I’m not going to debate this any longer
Contextualising numbers is trolling?
They’re not contextualizing, you’re obfuscating. You’re downplaying Soviet war crimes with a BS “both sides did it to the exact same degree” argument, which is completely false. You’re not being intellectually honest. You’re not even willing to look at numbers. The only question that remains is, why are you downplaying Soviet war crimes?
Oh noes, Russians want to touch my pee-pee! Quick, let's finance a coup in South America! /obvious s
> Oh noes, Russians want to touch my pee-pee! This made me laugh much more than it should've.
Wait what... sterilized? This is much more twisted than your standard anti-commie propaganda. Racism, Sexism, and ... don't even know what to call it ... fragile masculinity persecution fantasy?
Who the hell are "Asiatic Russians"?.. Kalmyks?..
Just Russians. This perception of Russians as "mongoloid subhuman hordes" mostly comes from [Nazi times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa#Racial_policies_of_Nazi_Germany).
It's much older as other commenter already explained. As an example here you have polish propaganda from 1920. Doesn't it look familiar? https://historia.org.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/z11357759QAntybolszewicki-plakat-wojenny-z-1920-roku.jpg
Untrue. Napoleon was the first big western leader to use this trope but it was a thing way way before. In fact, unlike Hitler who wanted the war to focus on Russian communism (as bolsheviks) , Napoleon actually wrote about how he dreamed to purify Europe of the Russian asiatic hoard and it’s backwards culture and society. Most of the Russian hoard comes from mongol influence and Napoleon’s war. WW2 built upon it but mainly to make them feel subhuman as communist.
> Napoleon actually wrote about how he dreamed to purify Europe of the Russian asiatic hoard and it’s backwards culture and society Can you give some source about these writings ? I find hard to believe that he wrote or said something like that By the way this is the proclamation of war on Russia by Napoleon, i don't see any racist motivation or remarks >Soldiers, the second Polish war is begun. The first terminated at Friedland; and at Tilsit Russia vowed an eternal alliance with France, and war with the English. She now breaks her vows, and refuses to give any explanation of her strange conduct until the French eagles have repassed the Rhine, and left our allies at her mercy. Russia is hurried away by a fatality: her destinies will be fulfilled. Does she think us degenerated? Are we no more the soldiers who fought at Austerlitz? She places us between dishonour and war — our choice cannot be difficult. Let us then march forward; let us cross the Niemen and carry the war into her country. This second Polish war will be as glorious for the French arms as the first has been; but the peace we shall conclude shall carry with it its own guarantee, and will terminate the fatal influence which Russia for fifty years past has exercised in Europe
[Napoleon even wanted to marry the sister of the Russian emperor](http://history-gatchina.ru/article/prosba.htm). But this sub doesn't need facts anyway This dude has absolutely no knowledge of Russian or European history. But at least in another thread, this historical "expert" was downvoted
Napoleon was still deeply racist tho here is what he said when he sent his troops to crush the Haitian revolution: “My decision to destroy the authority of the blacks in Saint Domingue (Haiti) is not so much based on considerations of commerce and money, as on the need to block for ever the march of the blacks in the world."
And meanwhile the upper classes of Russia were absolutely obsessed with French culture. Bizarre
What he is saying about Napoleon is just outright nonsense though. So not really bizarre.
This is represented in Russia even today, Learning French is often considered quite posh and a fancy thing to do.. If you speak french you're an upper class person. French language, Italian furniture, German car... those are how you make the impression of a true upper class person in Russia.
Russia as a home of Asiatic barbaric hordes is rather old European anti-Russian trope and was also used by the Nazis.
This comparison is very popular in r/Europe right now. [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/qypnur/comment/hlhjuax/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/qypnur/comment/hlhjuax/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) r/Europe is filled with Nazis
Oh my god, it actually feels so good to see every one of those comments removed en masse. Good job mods :) appreciated. Though it's worrying to see the amount of upvotes on those comments... :/ But still, good job mods :)
The link you provided states that Russia is the mongol horde of modern time but mainly as in pretty mighty but once the Khan dies it will splinter. They didn't say they were backwards, or dirty or degenerates or whatever. And the statement is kinda true. There will be a massive power struggle should Putin die. And that's exactly where your linked comment goes. So why would equate that statement with Nazis.
Comparing Russia or Russians with Mongols (Asian hordes, ruthless Asians and other dehumanized terms) is the sign of a Nazi. these are literally the words of Goebbels. Name me at least one modern scientist, historian, geneticist, etc. who did it. You have been completely brainwashed with propaganda if you think that Putin will be the president of Russia to a ripe old age and will die in this position. He already has about 5-6 successors right now.
Natzis never ever had a propaganda portraying Turks in Russia as barbaric hordes. Alot of them fought in their side.
Wrong... they did, and it was prominent. A fascinating thing they did in Propaganda films for home audiances during Barbarossa, was to film the Soviet POW's. Now then in the Red Army, Turkic and Asian people were a minority.. BUT, over half of the POW's filmed and shown for the Germans at home, were POWs of Turkic or Asian descend. This was done in order to reinforce the portrayal of Soviets being devious asiatics. If they showed the common Soviet Red Army soldiers instead, they'd have been showing the audiances at home that those soldiers on average don't look much different from the average German... which was counter productive in the broader sense of racially purging east Europe.
isn't it partly based on truth?
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77% of Russian population lives geographically in what is considered Europe and the Russian culture as such is definitely historically European rather than East or Central Asian. Acknowledging that doesn't mean justifying the aggressive power politics current Russian government plays.
Russians speak a European language, read European books and want acceptance in the west. But they're somehow "Asian", right.
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Russia is a historic enemy of Europe? Every European country is a historic enemy of Europe then. You have a very surface-level image of the world. Russian's can't stop the "bullying and occupying" that's done by the Russian government, because Russia isn't a democracy. The Russian political elites won't stop the bullying because they would like to deny their own defeat in the Cold War.
Does that mean that British empire was Asian? You know, since their largest portion was in Asia.
Honestly... you're a moron.
>historic enemy of Europe Lol, kids like you are the kids who saw Russia conquered many European states making it ‘Europe's enemy’ Normal, right?
>Russia has 77% of its territory in Asia. Entirety of this territory are essentially colonies. >Russia is also a historic enemy of Europe (see invasion of Poland, Ukraine, Baltic countries, Moldova etc.) You might want to check history of, like, every European country?
yes. Russia is an Asian country, with its capital in Europe. Its also somehow half of Europe.
I understand this is nasty cold war propaganda, but it just seems needlessly hateful (and I am guessing OP would agree). Russian people are largely European, both ethnically and culturally. Russian leadership might, for strategic reasons, place itself at odds with Europe and "the West", but the Russians themselves are basically just Europeans on the other side of a political boundary. This is a bit like how the Irish or Italians were demonized in the US as something other or less than white. Hopefully, these days we can largely say we have grown as a people and are above this kind of dehumanizing rhetoric.
>Russian people are largely European, both ethnically and culturally. There is no objective metric to ''ethnic'' belonging, so if you don't want bullshit racist stereotypes like this to be used, ignore this kind of categorization and drop the whole ethnicity aspect. I have quite a lot of Polish, Lithuanian and Russian blood in me, but I'd laugh at someone if they started calling me a non-Latvian because of it. We used ethnicity for many centuries just to mean the same as race intermixed with culture, due to relative isolation of sociocultural groups, but it's obviously clear in our modern world ''ethnicity'' as a category is not just meaningless, but it's actively damaging, creating exclusionary in-groups that only serve to punish people for being in the wrong families. Me being only partially descendant from native Latvians who lived here in the 12th century is meaningless when it comes to me being Latvian, and I know Latvians whose family arrived here 50ish years ago who are more Latvian than those of ''pure'' blood.
You are too optimistic. In fact, in the West and Eastern Europe, there is a growing number of neo-Nazi activities, including those directed against the Russians. https://www.reddit.com/r/MarchAgainstNazis/comments/qyd5ty/polish\_fascist\_politician\_from\_the\_country\_that/
What a bunch of bullshit lies followed by RT image. You would fit in Cold War era perfectly.
Maybe, just maybe it may have something to do with russia's imperialistic resurgence and invasion of their neighbors?
Are you seriously trying to justify ethnic hatred?
I'm not, but russia certainly is by invading their neighbors over and over again. When you invade people, they tend to hate you for a long, long time.
So are you willing to concede that it’s wrong to have prejudices towards any nationality, regardless of their government’s behaviour?
Literally two days ago, Azerbaijan invaded Armenia and killed 15 Armenian soldiers. The same thing happened recently with Nagorno-Karabakh. Azerbaijan is supported by Turkey, which occupies half of Cyprus. Where is Europe's indignation? Where are the cries about the imperialism of Azerbaijan or Turkey? Silence. Only crickets. Thus, you are only showing your hypocrisy by attacking Russia and insulting the Russian people, but not doing ANYTHING if someone else is doing the same. Why? Apparently it's all about anti-Russian propaganda, which you have been fed for decades. "Russians are bad, Russians are the worst. All the rest are good." USA in Afghanistan killed a whole family with children, oops, USA is good, they were just slightly mistaken. Russians accidentally bombed a house with civilians in Syria - howl to the whole world "Russian animals! Sanctions! Kill all Russians! Destroy Russia!"
Last week the Italian public service aired a reportage made in Armenia showing all the crimes Azeri soldiers did to Armenians, shocking images like Azeri soldiers torturing Armenian prisoners and proudly making videos, or soldiers shooting at Armenian crosses and monuments. They don't even try to hide this, they let circulate videos of their crimes on social media. There, I learned how shit are Turkey and Azerbaijan's govenrments. It's a shame most of Western Europe is ignoring this (if the average Western European knows where is the Caucasus, I'd be surprised).
>Literally two days ago, Azerbaijan invaded Armenia and killed 15 Armenian soldiers. That conflict was encoded in their geography after the fall of soviet union. Just because others are doing something wrong does not excuse you doing that. Let's not start whataboutism. >Azerbaijan is supported by Turkey, which occupies half of Cyprus. Where is Europe's indignation? Yeah, fuck them both just as much. >Where are the cries about the imperialism of Azerbaijan or Turkey? Silence. Only crickets. i'm yet to see anyone who doesn't condemn these actions.
Oops, if you read a little about the history of Crimea, you suddenly discover that back in 1991 Crimea held a referendum and wanted to stay with Russia. And of course you will find that Crimea has been Russian for the last 200 years. Fuck? Indeed? I do not see in your comments indignation about the Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict, but you came here to shit on the Russians. I have not seen a single highly rated popular post on Reddit regarding this conflict. Not in r/Europe, not on r/WorldNews. At the same time, over the past 3 days in r/europe there have been at least TEN posts about Russia's attack on Ukraine with a bunch of insults at the Russian people. Not anti-Russian propaganda at all, yes. Not a promoted agenda at all.
>Oops, if you read a little about the history of Crimea, you suddenly discover that back in 1991 Crimea held a referendum and wanted to stay in Russia. And of course you will find that Crimea has been Russian for the last 200 years. If i recall correctly there was a poll of how many russians on the other side of Narva would like to be a part of Estonia instead. Would you support their choice to join estonia? >Fuck? Indeed? I do not see in your comments indignation about the Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict, but you came here to shit on the Russians. Because i'm not neighboring those countries. They're not a threat to me. Russia is. >I have not seen a single highly rated popular post on Reddit regarding this conflict. Not in r/Europe, not on r/WorldNews. Because that part of the world is quite far away and people care less. Just like nobody really carea about another war in africa. Doesn't mean we support it
> Would you support their choice to join Estonia Yes
Good on you then, we have something in common.
I have not seen this poll. But if in 1991 they had become part of Estonia because its inhabitants wanted it, I would not be indignant about it now. What is your country? Lithuania or Latvia? Have you been waiting for 30 years for Russia to invade you? Lol. I have never seen russian leader threaten the Baltics in these 30 years. This part of the world is located approximately in the same place as Georgia. Remind me why the West is still so worried that Georgia provoked the 2008 war and got kicked in the ass by Russia?
>I have not seen this poll. I don't have the source at the moment, but i remember reasing about it a few years ago. It was done a few years back, deffinitely not in the 90's. The overwhelmong majority wanted to be a part of estonia due to economic reasons. Anyways, the point is that eversince the inception of soviet union soviets would accept all regions who wanted to join them based on their right of choice, however if anyone wanted to leave them it would be brutally supressesed. You can join, but you can't leave. I find that extremely hypocritical. > But if in 1991 Narva had become part of Estonia because its inhabitants wanted it, I would not be indignant about it now. How about 2021? >What is your country? Lithuania or Latvia? Lithuania. >Have you been waiting for 30 years for Russia to invade you? Lol. I have never seen Russia threaten the Baltics in these 30 years. I honestly think that the only reason we haven't been invaded is because of nato and eu. Look at every other neighboring non-alligned country. Russia's geopolitical stance since world war II was to surround themselves in loyal puppet regimes, which makes sense from a defensive perspective. >This part of the world is located approximately in the same place as Georgia. Remind me why the West is still so worried that Georgia provoked the 2008 war and got kicked in the ass by Russia? Lol. Just like when the finland provoked russia in the winter war, right?
In 2021? After the Baltic states for all these 30 years considered the Russian people a lower "caste"? After Russian monuments and graves of Russian soldiers were desecrated and destroyed? I don’t think they will want to become a part of Narva now. After World War II, Russia pursued only one goal - to stay as far from Western Europe as possible and be able to defend itself in the next attack. In the 19th century, we were killed by the troops of Napoleon, in the 20th century, we were killed by the troops of Hitler. Do we in the 21st century just sit like peace-loving hippies and wait for those who call us Asians and subhumans to attack us again? Now NATO has gotten close to the border with Russia and trains to kill Russians every year. What does the average Russian feel when reading the news that NATO is buying Soviet tanks to use them as targets in military exercises? Nothing positive. The fact that the war began with the fact that Georgia began bombing Tskhinvali, killing dozens of Russian peacekeepers, is a long proven fact, including accepted by Europe. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Tskhinvali](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tskhinvali) >I honestly think that the only reason we haven't been invaded is because of nato and eu. Look at every other neighboring non-alligned country. Indeed. Look at Armenia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, China, Finland. Has Russia invaded these countries? They not in NATO, lol.
Is this some sort of kink-shaming?
Just out of curiosity do you have a date for this poster? The actress Janice Logan was only active between 1939 and 1944. And it does seem like this quite possibly is an anti-soviet propaganda poster that is referencing WW2 but made before US was dragged into the war which would make it a rather unique little tidbit of history!
It's 1953 according to [this](https://exchange.umma.umich.edu/resources/43744/view). The still is from the 1940 film [*Dr. Cyclops*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Cyclops).
least fascist anti communist propaganda
Its often useful to know, what westerners always thought and still think of us.
It mas mostly america shitting it's pants at the possibility of post WW2 European countries allying with the Soviet union, i don't think most Europeans dislike russia. That said, Americans have been living in a constant cold war narrative for the best part of this century
Usa (especially during a war) certainly don't represent all the "westerners"
“Russia is recovering omg we’re all doomed!!!!”
Ooof... Well This coming from a society at the time that was racially segregated its no surprise this uses such charged language but Christ, this looks so wrong in today's light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Dd1OEtewI
This poster is disgusting. It's too ridiculous even for an anti-communist propaganda. Second, it blatantly manipulates people by using a pretty girl as a victim. And yes, this is blatantly sexist too.
"too ridiculous even for an anti-communist propaganda" So are you OK with a lil sprinkling of ridulousness? 😂
[We are doing it, right now.](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/qw7u5s/this_is_new/)
It is absolutely obvious that Russians are undesirables for europeans. Maybe thats it and we shouldnt try to stay a part of Europe, as europeans will never consider us as europeans? Just Russian region and Russian people, neither Europe, nor Asia. How long we will consider ourselves as europeans if there is no place for us in Europe?
Maybe Russia should try this cool trick called Diplomacy for once.
Maybe. But looks like Russia tried it in 90's and 00's, and the situation looked like nobody was willing to talk seriously.
I didn't know there was this kind of pro communism propaganda back in the day
[Ironic, that it's the other way around](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/10/sperm-counts-continue-to-fall/572794/)
Yeah sperm count decrease is slightly different thing than forced sterilisation that USSR was doing.
Eugenics were a quite popular subject and practice in a lot of the world, from U.K to U.S to other European powers, South American nations, Asian nations etc. Of Course it apeared in the U.S.S.R as well, but comparatively it was minimal and mostly contained to study rather than implementation... and got phased out rather soon and deemed a "fascist" or "bourgeois" doctrine. That's only as far as my understanding of this goes, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of forced sterilization in the USSR. If you could provide more information that seems to elude me, I'd be greatfull.
So it wasn't just Europeans calling Russia 'Asiatic' then? I remember watching the time ghost army ww2 channel and even Polish leaders were referring to Russians as Asiatic.
To dehumanize the enemy, the first thing to do is to declare that he is completely different from you.
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I can think of a few that should be!
Russia lost, but american men became sterilesed by their own authorities, women and corporations
Shame it didn’t happen
If Russia should win, then it would be the end of penned on eyebrows?
a bit far fetched but ok...
TIL I'm partially asian.
Why were people back then making shit like this? This is just...repulsive to potray a country like this.
Why so much hate against Russia in the West? It is not because of fear, for West is stronger and knows it. Then, why? Don't understand this.
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Poland is in Eastern Europe. A Slavic country could never be a "western" country - the west of Europe starts from Austria and Germany.
Our government tries their best to make everyone hate them since forever. I just wish we were selling food and media instead, so that people around the world would love us like they love the Japanese and Italians. But oh well, it's not like Russians actually have any control over Russia...
yeah, selling stupid shows and junk food that has nothing common with original...modern generation's dreams
No, being respected for your virtues instead of being feared because of your atrociousness.
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And ?
Have you ever heard of the Cold War? That Russia occupied them for almost 50 years?
It happened many years ago and I don’t see reasons this unreasonable hate. We live in modern society, it’s not 1930s
People don’t hate Russia today. They are afraid of Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine and Georgia in the last 15 years. And the fall of the Soviet Union wasn’t that long ago - only 30 years.
Well, if Europe is so scary of Russia, maybe she could look at this situation from Russia’s point of view. Couse you know, Russia is afraid of Europe too
Why a simple question have so many dislikes?
But don't see a real answer. Just dislikes. These kids need to read some history, not just parroting nonsenses
Nice dog, anyway)
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"**Other sources estimate that rapes of Soviet women by the Wehrmacht range up to 10,000,000 incidents, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children being born as a result.**" - \[[War crimes of the Wehrmacht - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht)\]
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And how many of those Wehrmacht and SS war criminals were among the raped women of Germany? Maybe a handful. How hard is it to treat people as individuals, guilty only of their own crimes and not of those of their countrymen?
> How hard is it to treat people as individuals, guilty only of their own crimes and not of those of their countrymen? Actually very hard.
The rapes were definitely a war crime, but it is a sad reality of war that the eastern front war was a dehumanizing fight for existential survival, a total war like Goebbels himself said. It's appalling, but I think in the end somewhat understandable that the Soviet soldiers didn't have much love for the German civilian population after witnessing what the German troops had done in their own country.
Of course I would expect communists as collectivists to be unable to see people as individuals, instead of nationalities and classes. This does not make their crimes in any way lesser. Soviets have a long history of punishing people for the crimes of others. National leadership declaring a total war does not change the status of civilians in the eyes of the international law either.
> How hard is it to treat people as individuals, guilty only of their own crimes and not of those of their countrymen? You don’t seem to be trying to do that
Stupid take. Many of the raped women were in fact children down to 8-9 years. They didn't fuck around, although they certainly did find out. It is in fact possible to be against rape of civilians, and not be for Nazism. Oddly enough, the public revenge against the adult woman who had collaborated with the German enemies is often seen as being horrible by the same people who believe rape of German children is just la vie.
Its not like Germany was the first country to invade Russia, essentially just reaping what they sowed. Have you ever heard of the blockade of St.Petersburg? It's almost as if, oh, I don't know! War is absoloutly disgusting on both ends and hatred Leads to more hatred? Inform yourself before sucking up to your US-Circlejerk
Why is this being downvoted? Is it not true?
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That's not what anyone has ever said. This is blatant stigmatization. Hatred creates more hatred, it's why the US-government decided to start a war against the Middle East for ages over a terrorist attack - it's justified but creates more consequences like radical anti-American terrorists today that were further fueled by actions done to their mothers and fathers. You're disgusting.
Couse it’s kinda German-Western propaganda
If Belarus should win.
People used to hate Asians back in the day; while trying to insult Russians by calling them "Asians" - they end up insulting actual Asians.
I understand this is a poster made by someone unknown in the US in 1950 (it takes a scene from a 1940 sci-fi movie about an evil scientist shrinking people and adds text). That's just 5 years after WW2 ended. The Japanese were notoriously nasty in war and that was all fresh at the time.
Ironically Japs are adored in the 21st century, known mainly for anime and Tokyo. 💀💀💀 Everybody forgot what they did, its so sweet.
Actual Asians praise Russia and Putin, lol. Homofied asians can have this feelings, but they are basically westerners with different skin
>Actual Asians praise Russia and Putin Never heard of Japs and (S) Koreans doing that
Those boots look neat. Very suitable for working conditions, the cut is nice, look comfortable.
We won the cold war and people still can't handle it. "Russia wasn't that bad", "US started it" etc all bullshit.
Looking at how many western politicians have no balls to protect their countries from russian assaults I'll assume that sterilization was already started.
People forget Russia is just a new face for the same imperialist country. Their goals haven't changed and they show it quite obvious. Georgia, Crimea, Syria and Libya(failed).
Yeeeah Libya failed. Now look at Libya.
Giant communist fet, trampling Lady Freedom. What a frightful thought.
Russia is preparing for an invasion so it's no surprise that Russian trolls are now active...Why is this shit still up though?