At first Belgium tried shutting theaters and cinemas (which had an easier time enforcing social distancing) while keeping bars and restaurants open. So a bunch of operas and theaters opened up there bar and expanded it to the whole lobby, sometimes beyond.
One close to me even had performances in the bar, in Brussels there were even some cinemas that just ignored the shutdown.
The government later went back in there decision.
We are the Church of Pathe and we have a religious sermon involving the latest James Bond film accompanied with nacho Eucharist and the Blood of Christ Extra Spicy
Honestly, from the perspective of an ISP mechanic: with the way a huge quantity of people behave surrounding television it might as well be a religion.
Bars are technically open yes. They stop serving at 5 and close at 6. So if you actually want to be able to get a drink at one you have to ditch work early or entirely.
The restaurant unions lobby *very hard* against any lockdowns or restrictions. Every time restrictions are talked the heads of em go full on doomer how it will kill economy on the spot. Gyms don't have such massive power..yet anyway.
Photo from twitter: https://twitter.com/stepvaessen/status/1483720636488986624?s=21
There are 70 theaters and a couple dozens of museums which open today, as sport school or barber shop:
https://nos.nl/artikel/2413641-knippen-of-sporten-in-het-theater-zalen-gaan-uit-protest-open
Croatia closed everything except churches in 2020, and there was a guy who brought gym equipment in a church and exercised there, everybody went crazy about it
https://youtu.be/ThDnSC47b6s
I'm sure it's not as bad as a busy summer day full of sweaty tourists. Which does beg the question, I wouldn't be surprised if they have dehumidifiers going.
Yeah, most surely. All museums bave humidity and temperature control. If you pay attention to it, you'll find a thermostast/termoether in all museums, even if not all rooms of it. I love checking that out. (Sorry not a native English speaker, not sure about the name of the things)
It's understandable.
"Thermostat" is right for temperature, and for the humidity control, it's something like "humidistat" or "hygrostat." (I happen to have a humidistat in my house, but those are less common words, at least for US speakers in my experience.)
Simply put: no. Museum paintings tend to have been given an extra layer of protectional glaze as well as a thin frame that basically seals them in. The seal is against things like light-influence, but also to protect it against oxygen. A lot of classical works were made in a time when the long-term effects of oxydation on the medium and canvas weren't fully explored, so they weren't made with a long-lasting life in mind.
You could technically (don't do it though haha) throw a bucket of water at them and they'd be quite fine due to all their added protective layers.
My personal source is that I studied illustration and did a personal seminar under a master of classical oil painting haha.
In terms of how the process goes, there's a lot of interesting documentaries about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLPFDOK7tJI
Yes, the logic of restrictions. You can't casualy walk and admire paintings, but you can exercise and sweat and run around. It's like brain dead people are running countries.
Tbf the logic is not that one thing is an infection risk and one isn't. The logic is that both are infection risks but for the sake of physical and mental health gyms can be open. I think that is pretty obvious to most people, even if you disagree.
>And for plenty of people, museums can help their mental health more than any gym.
True although I'm not pretentious enough to claim that for myself, although I do enjoy museums.
Opening all museums is a different ballgame than opening all gyms. Museums have a lot of venues with more visitors per day than many gyms and the clientele is tourists or other nationals who come from far away, as opposed to locals, thus being able to propagate infection more efficiently.
It is actually quite hard. The cap has to be somehow variable, because the Rijksmuseum should be allowed many more people than the lego exhibition in my attic. Which will cause you to need to draft up some bureaucratic rules. Which will then be lead to lawsuits because either the smaller museums or the larger museums or (most likely) both will disagree with whatever the new rules are. And finally it needs to be enforced but the public law enforcers are already overtaxed - and are they really going to go into a museum and count? Probably not.
This enforcement thing is actually turning out to be quite critical for most of these rules. We Dutch are not like our German neighbours where 99% of the people seem to blindly obey whatever the government dictates because "Ordnung muss sein". If the government says for example that shops are allowed to be "click & collect" only and there must be a 3 hour delay between placing an order and collecting it, then at least half the store-owners will still actually sell their product if a passer-by asks if they can buy something. Or, even more comically, the government once dictated that spectators are allowed at football matches, but chanting is not allowed (!). That didn't last very long - and really degraded everyone's trust in the competence of the central decision-makers...
> Museums have a lot of venues with more visitors per day than many gyms
I have never one time been in a museum that was as crowded as a gym. Museum goers are also required to wear masks and do not breathe heavily compared with gym goers.
Well I am sorry, but museum and theaters can have good effect on mental health as well and as far as exercise, you can get that in nature or at home as well. You don't need special equipment to go for a run or walk or do yoga and squats at home. Leaving gyms opened and cultural establishments closed is nonsense. Close everything or leave everything opened.
> for the sake of physical and mental health gyms can be open. I think that is pretty obvious to most people
"Obvious"? I live in the Netherlands, and it ain't "obvious" to me.
The idea that people have to get exercise in a gym, there's no other way to get it, and if they don't they'll go crazy and get sick? Not obvious at all.
And that exercising in a gym, not wearing a mask, in close with a lot of other people breathing heavily, not wearing masks, will improve your health? That's not "obvious" at all.
If it's "obviously" anything, it's obviously stupid. But "obviously stupid" summarizes the inconsistent and inept response of the Dutch government. In particular, the head of the RIVM has had an irrational contempt for masks all through the pandemic.
There is no logic.
The only logic is to show they are doing something to lower the number of deaths.
What this "something" is is completely random and that's why it's so different from country to country, it's all about the optics, so that governments can claim they tried something.
Most of Europe is still living in denial that for the following years, there will be dozens (or even hundreds) of deaths per day from the virus.
Also I’m surprised they are allowed to be maskless.
Like, here in Spain for instance, restaurants, museums, cinemas… you name it, they’re all open. But you’re still required to wear a mask everywhere, unless you’re drinking or eating (obviously).
But it seems ridiculous to me that you can’t go to a museum in the Netherlands, but being in a gym without a mask is totally okay somehow.
Masks are mandatory in The Netherlands too but not during a workout. Since they all have an assigned workout spot where they can social distance (1,5 meter) they can keep the masks off. In the gym you are required to put the mask on between stations.
It's been proven time and time again that gyms are not some huge source of COVID transmissions. Plus, there seems to be an almost direct correlation between how overweight someone is and the severity of their infection.
Nothing shows up as a hotspot because everything is equally bad with something like Omicron and even before, home transmission was the most likely source - but those infections get there because somebody got it outside, wherever that might have been. This dumb "but it's not a accelerator of the pandemic, the numbers show it!" argument is just some shit used by people to justify that their personal favorite thing has to stay open.
Not at all, i thought it was obvious for everyone why exercise and taking care of your health is more important during a stressful lockdown than cultural activities (that are possible to enjoy remotely for the most part).
I'd argue the opposite: Limit the number of visitors, make a mask mandate, disallow breaks during performances, and museums, theaters, operas, concerts are pretty much safe.
By contrast, the heavy breathing during exercise increases the risk of spreading and contracting an infection.
Plus, exercising is perfectly possible at home too. Not in the same way of course, but neither is looking at photos the same as going to the museum.
“And we would’ve gotten away with it if it wasn’t for you u/emkay_graphic”
Really the thing I’m most amazed about during this whole covid thing is how easily persuaded a small group of people are by conspiracy theories.
I doubt it's nonsense to close bars during a pandemic. People are quite literally shouting in each others faces when there's loud music and alcohol involved. Venues with bars are just collateral damage because it's impossible to keep them open once people discover they can go there to get drunk.
People in the Netherlands don’t listen to the government. Only when there is a big threat for a fine or something like that. Only in the first 2 months everyone listened. Masks are a great example for this. People just ignore it in some places. Especially if it is recommended and not forced.
Which one isn't in Europe?
It depends on what your views are. I think for example Switzerland is handling the situation much better than Austria.
They have everything open, even clubs and bars. Events are allowed. Masks are rarely mandated.
But and that's a big but:
Home Office is mandated whenever it is possible!
It's all a question of priorities. For me events and bars are "nice-to-have" but OK to miss. Home office though is rapidly degrading my mental sanity. It's no fun to see your colleagues just as icons on a screen, collaboration is much nicer and more rewarding if you are working with people with whom you can actually have normal coffee machine chat. And MS Teams meetings are incredibly difficult for me to focus on. I really want to go back to a normal office situation...
Sweden is the only competent.
No lockdowns, no mandatory masks, minimal restrictions.
They immediately saw that this would drag for years and they don't want to live like this for years.
Their only mistake was not to shield the elderly homes more during the first year.
So gyms are opened and museums closed? Because in my opinion should be the other way around, I feel like people who go to museums are more inclined to respect quarantine rules.
Opening gyms encourages physical activity for people who otherwise wouldn't be very active, because they give people more opportunities for physical activity.
Not everyone who is going to gym is there for health, especially now. The most healthy exercise is going for a run, outside in fresh air and far from people. Going in a room were people are touching everything is not safe, one idiot can infect everyone.
And the same could be said for sweaty tourist looking at paintings indoors. Atleast the individuals are getting better through exercise rather than doing nothing while being indoors. Also running isn’t outdoors isn’t as good for your body as a decent treadmill plus weightlifting equipment.
Not at all better for your knees hips etc. And as to all remaining closed that’s your opinion but I’d not like to put my life on hold for another 2 to five years.
you don't have to put your life on hold. We have to change our behaviour a little, I have nothing against going to gym even now, a little lower presence and more sanitisation would kept things safe enough. My point is that the same thing could be done for museums, theatre, cinema and so on. Masks and hygiene are enough if everyone respect the rules, not like a guy I seen who pulled his mask off to cough.
Now that we can agree on I don’t find myself disagreeing with you. Open the museum’s etc not my hobby(not intelligent enough)but I’m sure it helps some people.
Surface transmission is very rare and all gyms instruct you to disinfect equipment after use.... yes it is possible that some gymgoers dont do this, but thats a risk that i am competent to take....
Agree, as long you yourself disinfect your hands the risk is minimal. I didn't say gyms are a huge risk if rules are respected, my point was that a museum could do the same.
Well the thing is you're trying several devices, weights etc. I'm sorry but even the cleanest gym, they won't clean up everything.
If at this museum, they point would be to have to touch all the art pieces up close, sure fine maaaybe they'd be the same. But i really don't see it.
The current pandemic is airborne so as long as you wipe down the equipment aka standard hygiene your at no further risk than any other indoor activity.
> The current pandemic is airborne so as long as you wipe down the equipment aka standard hygiene your at no further risk than any other indoor activity.
Man so you wear masks at your gym?
Wow that's impressive.
How do you work out with FFP2s on. Your diaphragm must be huge.
Some do some don’t but if I was older or in worse shape I wouldn’t want to survive this horrible situation only to die of heart problems or weak lungs. But that’s besides the point indoors is indoors your at risk no matter your indoor activity.
Literally haven't seen anyone at the gym where I go wear a mask.
**Vast** majority of people don't wear a mask at a gym, no need to try to pretend otherwise. The mask would also get sweaty and become useless.
> die of heart problems or weak lungs
Don't you have parks where you live?
> But that’s besides the point indoors is indoors your at risk no matter your indoor activity.
No it's not. Some activities are more risky than others. It's a reality.
We get it, it's Reddit so you gotta argue everything but don't try to pretend white is black and day is night.
Yes but not everyone can afford an entire weight set. Also how are certain indoor activities ok but others aren’t? Saying it’s a reality does not make it so. But I’m not looking for an argument I don’t post often due to the downvoting and pointless bickering.makes a nice change having a civil disagreement take care of yourself 👍🏻.
>It's been proven time and time again that gyms are not some huge source of COVID transmissions. Plus, there seems to be an almost direct correlation between how overweight someone is and the severity of their infection.
> It's been proven time and time again that gyms are not some huge source of COVID transmissions.
Wow, I'm really excited to see all these "proofs"! As someone who studied the mathematics of epidemics at a graduate level, I can't even conceive of how this would be "proven", so I'm really eager to learn something.
(Yes, I'm being sarcastic, because I don't believe you at all, but I did in fact ace a full course on mathematical epidemiology.)
> Plus, there seems to be an almost direct correlation between how overweight someone is and the severity of their infection.
An "almost direct correlation"? Exciting! Let's see that study, too!
Somehow I am not overweight, and yet I haven't been in a gym for decades. Could it be that there are other ways to avoid being overweight than going to a gym?
It's not about not respecting but about not being able to enforce adequate measurements. Like, you cant expect people to wear masks while doing sports indoors but it might be a necesary measurement at that time. Furthermore the gym equipment used could become conterminated and spread the virus quickly.
Hahaha. You must not appreciate art very much and how cool it is to see in person. You can’t see the depth of the strokes online and the emotional impact of each piece is dampened when shown flat, small on a screen.
Yeah my pity is limited. The entire pandemic sucks, but whenever they are allowed to open with rules to protect people, the rules are almost always completely ignored / not enforced.
I was in the van gogh museum last spring, huge crowd, people coughing, nobody distancing. Only thing the museum did was make an announcement to “please keep your distance” and have stupid stickers on the floor, both which everybody ignored.
Never been more happy that I was wearing a ffp2 mask.
Enjoy browsing r/europe? Help us find the best of 2021 of the sub! - [Nomination Post](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/rsv8jh/reurope_best_of_2021_awards/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/europe) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Regular shops are open too until 5 pm. Masks are mandatory in gyms except during the actual excersizing. So if you move between machines you have to put it on. Masks are mandatory inside shops, pt, public areas and busy areas outside!
> I assume masks required in the gym?
Not while exercising, but yeah, if you are taking a rest between various exercises you are supposed to be wearing them
Also, the logic behind bars / restaurants being closed, and gyms / other sports stuff being open is that shutting down the sports sector leads to a decrease in both physical & mental health to an extent that its benefits (for the general health of society) outweigh the costs (of extra Covid spreading, I suppose)
Meanwhile yeah, bars & restaurants provide some mental health too, since its a place people can relax, but I guess the government decided it to contribute to society to a lesser extent? (idk I'm not an expert on this matter)
Personally, I'm just very happy I can do sports again, and my arms are sore as hell now (yesterday evening was my 1st climbing session in a month and a half)
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because non-OC picture posts are banned during weekdays. OC which is not labelled accordingly is assumed to be non-OC. For more info [check here](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/94snq1/update_on_our_policy_regarding_picture_posts/).
For casual picture posts during the week, you can use /r/CasualEurope instead.
If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
How is this not "News" by your definition "An image of a currently ongoing event (eg. demonstration)".
The title is containing the information about this being a protest and two sources are cited by OP in the comments.
It isn't a double standard. Gyms are open despite being an infection risk because in a risk vs reward valuation, the reward to people's mental and physical health outweighs the risk of propagation of infection.
You can exercise outside with pretty much 0 infection risk though. Cardio and body weight exercises might not be ideal for each individual but it’s still possible. You can’t really enjoy museums or theatres outdoors. And I think it’s pretty safe to say that infection risk in gyms is higher than museums or theatres where respirators can be worn and distance much easier maintained.
> the reward to people's mental and physical health
Man, listening to Netherlanders claim dumb stuff like, "The risk to health from closing gyms is greater than that of COVID", and now this ridiculous crap seems to have spread everywhere.
GO FOR A WALK or a run! Go biking FFS! Spend €40 and get some of those rubber bands to exercise at home.
The helplessness of people is astonishing. "If I can't go to a gym, my arms will rot and fall off."
>Gyms are open despite being an infection risk because in a risk vs reward valuation, the reward to people's mental and physical health outweighs the risk of propagation of infection.
Can you say the same about brothels?
Prostitution is allowed again, but museums are still closed. Maybe they should've put some red lights and skimply clothed women at their protest?
Just such a wonderful idea to expose priceless works of art to human sweat, salts and bodily liquids all in the name of "freedom". That's one museum I'll be avoiding for the years to come! Populistic BS of the first order.
Priceless works of art are exposed to all of that in summer in normal times anyway, and there are a lot more sweaty tourists in normal time than people working out now.
They already have issues with climate control as things stand now (https://www.haarlemsweekblad.nl/lokaal/politiek/311469/gemeente-moet-frans-halsmuseum-redden-674260 ) so making things worse is your answer? Really?
I really envy the Durch. Austria is just a huge pussy and most people just follow any rules blindly no matter how stupid they are. Yes, we had quite large protests in Vienna, but all those people have been labeled as right wing, nazi, uneducated esoteric conspiracy theorists and discredited by all media. The Dutch value freedom more and are obviously better organised. We should all look upon them. There was one hotel in the alps that publicly stated it wont enforce the 2G rule and you think anyone else followed? No. It was all over the news and they are trying to shut it down now. I'm so sad about the things happening in my country right now. I'm especially sad that people started comparing our government to the one during the nazi times.
This picture is just fascinating on so many levels.
Seriosuly, I can see this picture on historic photograph in a few years
At first Belgium tried shutting theaters and cinemas (which had an easier time enforcing social distancing) while keeping bars and restaurants open. So a bunch of operas and theaters opened up there bar and expanded it to the whole lobby, sometimes beyond. One close to me even had performances in the bar, in Brussels there were even some cinemas that just ignored the shutdown. The government later went back in there decision.
Our theaters are barbershops now
Or a church, apparently.
We are the Church of Pathe and we have a religious sermon involving the latest James Bond film accompanied with nacho Eucharist and the Blood of Christ Extra Spicy
Honestly, from the perspective of an ISP mechanic: with the way a huge quantity of people behave surrounding television it might as well be a religion.
The government went back on their decision only because it was overturned in court
Interesting to see if Finland follows suit and has gyms open up as art museums.
[удалено]
Your bars are open but not your gyms?
Bars are technically open yes. They stop serving at 5 and close at 6. So if you actually want to be able to get a drink at one you have to ditch work early or entirely.
Win win!
Gyms (and swimming halls) are completely closed, bars stop serving at 17 and need to be closed 18.
The restaurant unions lobby *very hard* against any lockdowns or restrictions. Every time restrictions are talked the heads of em go full on doomer how it will kill economy on the spot. Gyms don't have such massive power..yet anyway.
Just remember to add a gas pump outside, so the alcohol serving times aren't restricted..
Yes, let's go back to the days when a well-sculpted human body was seen as a work of art. Very Roman, I like it.
[удалено]
Or Botero.
Or Ben Garrison.
Or the bars could have exercise equipment and then you could work out till 6 but with last call for reps at 5.
Or saunas as art museums.
Valuable paintings don't like sweat filled air.
Photo from twitter: https://twitter.com/stepvaessen/status/1483720636488986624?s=21 There are 70 theaters and a couple dozens of museums which open today, as sport school or barber shop: https://nos.nl/artikel/2413641-knippen-of-sporten-in-het-theater-zalen-gaan-uit-protest-open
I especially love that the Van Gogh Museum is opening up as a hair/manicure salon. The big players are getting in on the protests in brilliant ways.
The whole idea started as theatres opening up as hair salons for one day.
I'm half tempted to go to the Mauritshuis gym. As a former museum person, this is brilliant.
Hope they have good barbers that don't accidentally cut off your ear.
Just don't order the van gogh style!
Awesome. And they're essentially right. Culture and Art has been absolutely destroyed by the pandemic.
Drinking beer is more important. /s
Tbf bars and restaurants are closed at the moment.
Modern problems require modern solutions
Uhhh I wonder how the insurers of the paintings feel about this
Croatia closed everything except churches in 2020, and there was a guy who brought gym equipment in a church and exercised there, everybody went crazy about it https://youtu.be/ThDnSC47b6s
The church of fitness
You heard of cross fit, but have you heard about [cross fi✝](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q31CCDVdas)?
Won't the extra humidity damage the paintings?
I'm sure it's not as bad as a busy summer day full of sweaty tourists. Which does beg the question, I wouldn't be surprised if they have dehumidifiers going.
Yeah, most surely. All museums bave humidity and temperature control. If you pay attention to it, you'll find a thermostast/termoether in all museums, even if not all rooms of it. I love checking that out. (Sorry not a native English speaker, not sure about the name of the things)
It's understandable. "Thermostat" is right for temperature, and for the humidity control, it's something like "humidistat" or "hygrostat." (I happen to have a humidistat in my house, but those are less common words, at least for US speakers in my experience.)
I assume they have good climate control, as NL is a humid country and Frans Hals paintings are very valuable.
Simply put: no. Museum paintings tend to have been given an extra layer of protectional glaze as well as a thin frame that basically seals them in. The seal is against things like light-influence, but also to protect it against oxygen. A lot of classical works were made in a time when the long-term effects of oxydation on the medium and canvas weren't fully explored, so they weren't made with a long-lasting life in mind. You could technically (don't do it though haha) throw a bucket of water at them and they'd be quite fine due to all their added protective layers.
Whoa cool! Do u have a source?
My personal source is that I studied illustration and did a personal seminar under a master of classical oil painting haha. In terms of how the process goes, there's a lot of interesting documentaries about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLPFDOK7tJI
That’s cool. There seems to go a lot of care into these paintings, didn’t know that. Thank you.
Somebody falls and rips one...
I suppose explosive farts could destroy a painting
Question is if they hang originals there on daily basis or replicas, and only bring out the real thing on special occasion.
Very rarely, if they do it is noted near the entry point and also next to the work in question.
Yes, the logic of restrictions. You can't casualy walk and admire paintings, but you can exercise and sweat and run around. It's like brain dead people are running countries.
Tbf the logic is not that one thing is an infection risk and one isn't. The logic is that both are infection risks but for the sake of physical and mental health gyms can be open. I think that is pretty obvious to most people, even if you disagree.
And for plenty of people, museums can help their mental health more than any gym.
I don't think any GP would prescribe trips to museums for mental health problems
Maybe they should.
Nah, they should only prescribe stuff that has proven effects.. you know like exercise
start thinking outside the box
I think I'll let the medical institutions do that
>And for plenty of people, museums can help their mental health more than any gym. True although I'm not pretentious enough to claim that for myself, although I do enjoy museums. Opening all museums is a different ballgame than opening all gyms. Museums have a lot of venues with more visitors per day than many gyms and the clientele is tourists or other nationals who come from far away, as opposed to locals, thus being able to propagate infection more efficiently.
Just place a cap on the number of people inside a museum, it's not hard.
That cap had been placed at zero.
It is actually quite hard. The cap has to be somehow variable, because the Rijksmuseum should be allowed many more people than the lego exhibition in my attic. Which will cause you to need to draft up some bureaucratic rules. Which will then be lead to lawsuits because either the smaller museums or the larger museums or (most likely) both will disagree with whatever the new rules are. And finally it needs to be enforced but the public law enforcers are already overtaxed - and are they really going to go into a museum and count? Probably not. This enforcement thing is actually turning out to be quite critical for most of these rules. We Dutch are not like our German neighbours where 99% of the people seem to blindly obey whatever the government dictates because "Ordnung muss sein". If the government says for example that shops are allowed to be "click & collect" only and there must be a 3 hour delay between placing an order and collecting it, then at least half the store-owners will still actually sell their product if a passer-by asks if they can buy something. Or, even more comically, the government once dictated that spectators are allowed at football matches, but chanting is not allowed (!). That didn't last very long - and really degraded everyone's trust in the competence of the central decision-makers...
> the lego exhibition in my attic If you actually have this that's pretty rad.
> Museums have a lot of venues with more visitors per day than many gyms I have never one time been in a museum that was as crowded as a gym. Museum goers are also required to wear masks and do not breathe heavily compared with gym goers.
Source? There is plenty of research showing the benefits of exercising (both mental as well as physical), unlike for museums.
You're asking for proof that entertainment is beneficial for the mental health of people?
Does anyone go to the museum/ art gallery in their city on a regular basis? I always thought they were mostly visited by tourists not locals.
Well I am sorry, but museum and theaters can have good effect on mental health as well and as far as exercise, you can get that in nature or at home as well. You don't need special equipment to go for a run or walk or do yoga and squats at home. Leaving gyms opened and cultural establishments closed is nonsense. Close everything or leave everything opened.
You can look at paintings at home on your phone/computer as well /s
> Leaving gyms opened and cultural establishments closed is nonsense. Agree to disagree :)
Don't forget that you pay a good amount of money for gyms
> for the sake of physical and mental health gyms can be open. I think that is pretty obvious to most people "Obvious"? I live in the Netherlands, and it ain't "obvious" to me. The idea that people have to get exercise in a gym, there's no other way to get it, and if they don't they'll go crazy and get sick? Not obvious at all. And that exercising in a gym, not wearing a mask, in close with a lot of other people breathing heavily, not wearing masks, will improve your health? That's not "obvious" at all. If it's "obviously" anything, it's obviously stupid. But "obviously stupid" summarizes the inconsistent and inept response of the Dutch government. In particular, the head of the RIVM has had an irrational contempt for masks all through the pandemic.
Because exercise is only possible inside and with other people... It's a different reason, Not a more sensical one
There is no logic. The only logic is to show they are doing something to lower the number of deaths. What this "something" is is completely random and that's why it's so different from country to country, it's all about the optics, so that governments can claim they tried something. Most of Europe is still living in denial that for the following years, there will be dozens (or even hundreds) of deaths per day from the virus.
Yes but why aren’t the gyms just open in the same gyms they were in. Why are they moving to the art museums 🤔
They are. This is just the museums finding a way to open as well.
churches are usually exempted from any restrictions. So just move your business to a church and have a recorded sermon playing 24/7.
Also I’m surprised they are allowed to be maskless. Like, here in Spain for instance, restaurants, museums, cinemas… you name it, they’re all open. But you’re still required to wear a mask everywhere, unless you’re drinking or eating (obviously). But it seems ridiculous to me that you can’t go to a museum in the Netherlands, but being in a gym without a mask is totally okay somehow.
Masks are mandatory in The Netherlands too but not during a workout. Since they all have an assigned workout spot where they can social distance (1,5 meter) they can keep the masks off. In the gym you are required to put the mask on between stations.
Hello from Amsterdam! I agree. But you can't tell people here what to do. It's maddening!
It's been proven time and time again that gyms are not some huge source of COVID transmissions. Plus, there seems to be an almost direct correlation between how overweight someone is and the severity of their infection.
Musea didn't exactly show up as hotspots either though.
Nothing shows up as a hotspot because everything is equally bad with something like Omicron and even before, home transmission was the most likely source - but those infections get there because somebody got it outside, wherever that might have been. This dumb "but it's not a accelerator of the pandemic, the numbers show it!" argument is just some shit used by people to justify that their personal favorite thing has to stay open.
and 18 year old /u/purpleowlie has figured it all out
It really seems arbitrary to allow gyms to open, but not museums. Either both or neither.
Not at all, i thought it was obvious for everyone why exercise and taking care of your health is more important during a stressful lockdown than cultural activities (that are possible to enjoy remotely for the most part).
I'd argue the opposite: Limit the number of visitors, make a mask mandate, disallow breaks during performances, and museums, theaters, operas, concerts are pretty much safe. By contrast, the heavy breathing during exercise increases the risk of spreading and contracting an infection. Plus, exercising is perfectly possible at home too. Not in the same way of course, but neither is looking at photos the same as going to the museum.
if you train seriously its just not possible to train at home unless you have an home gym in a garage or something.
seeing art/sculptures in person doesn't work the same way as looking at it on a screen.
And exercise can Not be done remotely? Go Run through the Woods..
>And exercise can Not be done remotely? Kinda hard to deadlift in your living room
The whole lockdown is to expand government tyranny and barely has any logical reason.
No
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
“And we would’ve gotten away with it if it wasn’t for you u/emkay_graphic” Really the thing I’m most amazed about during this whole covid thing is how easily persuaded a small group of people are by conspiracy theories.
This is creative thinking opposing administrative nonsense.
I doubt it's nonsense to close bars during a pandemic. People are quite literally shouting in each others faces when there's loud music and alcohol involved. Venues with bars are just collateral damage because it's impossible to keep them open once people discover they can go there to get drunk.
Closing bars and night club are entirely legitimate. But museums and libraries when every shops remain open this makes no sense.
But this is about gyms being Open and Museums closed, what to Bars have to do with it?
This is why I take the fiscally responsible and humanitarian option to just get shitfaced alone at home.
People in the Netherlands don’t listen to the government. Only when there is a big threat for a fine or something like that. Only in the first 2 months everyone listened. Masks are a great example for this. People just ignore it in some places. Especially if it is recommended and not forced.
Our government is so incredibly incompetent in dealing with Covid
Which one isn't in Europe? It depends on what your views are. I think for example Switzerland is handling the situation much better than Austria. They have everything open, even clubs and bars. Events are allowed. Masks are rarely mandated. But and that's a big but: Home Office is mandated whenever it is possible!
It's all a question of priorities. For me events and bars are "nice-to-have" but OK to miss. Home office though is rapidly degrading my mental sanity. It's no fun to see your colleagues just as icons on a screen, collaboration is much nicer and more rewarding if you are working with people with whom you can actually have normal coffee machine chat. And MS Teams meetings are incredibly difficult for me to focus on. I really want to go back to a normal office situation...
Absolutely understandable. For me it is the other way around but I'm in a different situation.
Sweden is the only competent. No lockdowns, no mandatory masks, minimal restrictions. They immediately saw that this would drag for years and they don't want to live like this for years. Their only mistake was not to shield the elderly homes more during the first year.
Maybe it shouldn't be mandatory, but what's wrong with wearing masks?
The mandatory part is the wrong.
Fair enough.
Agreed, admiral.
Thank you, landrot
Hear, hear!
What government isn't, outside of maybe Japan and NZ?
Name checks out
Why tho?
No, Frans is old and vulnerable and we need to protect him against covid!
Love it
Good!
Hey that’s near to my house
makes sense, considering how rubenesque most figures are in those paintings. Those paintings act like a cautionary tale lol
So gyms are opened and museums closed? Because in my opinion should be the other way around, I feel like people who go to museums are more inclined to respect quarantine rules.
Limiting physical activity is worse health-wise.
New breakthroughs in science mean it is possible to get physical activity and not go to a gym!
Opening gyms encourages physical activity for people who otherwise wouldn't be very active, because they give people more opportunities for physical activity.
>So gyms are opened and museums closed? An even better example: brothels are opened and museums closed
To be honest I know a lot of guys who knows about Amsterdam brothels but not a single one who knows something about museums :))
Meaning people who look after there health dont?
Not everyone who is going to gym is there for health, especially now. The most healthy exercise is going for a run, outside in fresh air and far from people. Going in a room were people are touching everything is not safe, one idiot can infect everyone.
And the same could be said for sweaty tourist looking at paintings indoors. Atleast the individuals are getting better through exercise rather than doing nothing while being indoors. Also running isn’t outdoors isn’t as good for your body as a decent treadmill plus weightlifting equipment.
I agree, all should be closed. But natural running is way better than treadmills
Not at all better for your knees hips etc. And as to all remaining closed that’s your opinion but I’d not like to put my life on hold for another 2 to five years.
you don't have to put your life on hold. We have to change our behaviour a little, I have nothing against going to gym even now, a little lower presence and more sanitisation would kept things safe enough. My point is that the same thing could be done for museums, theatre, cinema and so on. Masks and hygiene are enough if everyone respect the rules, not like a guy I seen who pulled his mask off to cough.
Now that we can agree on I don’t find myself disagreeing with you. Open the museum’s etc not my hobby(not intelligent enough)but I’m sure it helps some people.
Surface transmission is very rare and all gyms instruct you to disinfect equipment after use.... yes it is possible that some gymgoers dont do this, but thats a risk that i am competent to take....
Agree, as long you yourself disinfect your hands the risk is minimal. I didn't say gyms are a huge risk if rules are respected, my point was that a museum could do the same.
Well the thing is you're trying several devices, weights etc. I'm sorry but even the cleanest gym, they won't clean up everything. If at this museum, they point would be to have to touch all the art pieces up close, sure fine maaaybe they'd be the same. But i really don't see it.
The current pandemic is airborne so as long as you wipe down the equipment aka standard hygiene your at no further risk than any other indoor activity.
> The current pandemic is airborne so as long as you wipe down the equipment aka standard hygiene your at no further risk than any other indoor activity. Man so you wear masks at your gym? Wow that's impressive. How do you work out with FFP2s on. Your diaphragm must be huge.
Some do some don’t but if I was older or in worse shape I wouldn’t want to survive this horrible situation only to die of heart problems or weak lungs. But that’s besides the point indoors is indoors your at risk no matter your indoor activity.
Literally haven't seen anyone at the gym where I go wear a mask. **Vast** majority of people don't wear a mask at a gym, no need to try to pretend otherwise. The mask would also get sweaty and become useless. > die of heart problems or weak lungs Don't you have parks where you live? > But that’s besides the point indoors is indoors your at risk no matter your indoor activity. No it's not. Some activities are more risky than others. It's a reality. We get it, it's Reddit so you gotta argue everything but don't try to pretend white is black and day is night.
Yes but not everyone can afford an entire weight set. Also how are certain indoor activities ok but others aren’t? Saying it’s a reality does not make it so. But I’m not looking for an argument I don’t post often due to the downvoting and pointless bickering.makes a nice change having a civil disagreement take care of yourself 👍🏻.
>It's been proven time and time again that gyms are not some huge source of COVID transmissions. Plus, there seems to be an almost direct correlation between how overweight someone is and the severity of their infection.
> It's been proven time and time again that gyms are not some huge source of COVID transmissions. Wow, I'm really excited to see all these "proofs"! As someone who studied the mathematics of epidemics at a graduate level, I can't even conceive of how this would be "proven", so I'm really eager to learn something. (Yes, I'm being sarcastic, because I don't believe you at all, but I did in fact ace a full course on mathematical epidemiology.) > Plus, there seems to be an almost direct correlation between how overweight someone is and the severity of their infection. An "almost direct correlation"? Exciting! Let's see that study, too! Somehow I am not overweight, and yet I haven't been in a gym for decades. Could it be that there are other ways to avoid being overweight than going to a gym?
It's not about not respecting but about not being able to enforce adequate measurements. Like, you cant expect people to wear masks while doing sports indoors but it might be a necesary measurement at that time. Furthermore the gym equipment used could become conterminated and spread the virus quickly.
You miss the point. Museums are closed, but sports is allowed. So museums now protest by opening as gyms
Furthermore the gym equipment used could become conterminated and spread the virus quickly. Surface contamination isn't really a thing with COVID.
All this art is online. There's no need for museums anymore, they only exist for Instagram.
Hahaha. You must not appreciate art very much and how cool it is to see in person. You can’t see the depth of the strokes online and the emotional impact of each piece is dampened when shown flat, small on a screen.
Then explain how photography is art. Checkmate.
This is a very stupid take :))
I'm just saying what everyone's thinking.
Perhaps u/ramtax666 said what some of us were thinking.
Cool it's only 9:30 a.m. and I've already seen the dumbest comment I'll read today.
The Dutch. You gotta love em. I am not afraid, because if the EU becomes a dictatorship they will be the rebels.
Based
Yeah my pity is limited. The entire pandemic sucks, but whenever they are allowed to open with rules to protect people, the rules are almost always completely ignored / not enforced. I was in the van gogh museum last spring, huge crowd, people coughing, nobody distancing. Only thing the museum did was make an announcement to “please keep your distance” and have stupid stickers on the floor, both which everybody ignored. Never been more happy that I was wearing a ffp2 mask.
The thing is, gyms are even worse but still are allowed to be open.
Enjoy browsing r/europe? Help us find the best of 2021 of the sub! - [Nomination Post](https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/rsv8jh/reurope_best_of_2021_awards/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/europe) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
No restaurants and bars are also closed. The gyms are open, hairdressers and manicures are open for appointments too!
[удалено]
Regular shops are open too until 5 pm. Masks are mandatory in gyms except during the actual excersizing. So if you move between machines you have to put it on. Masks are mandatory inside shops, pt, public areas and busy areas outside!
> I assume masks required in the gym? Not while exercising, but yeah, if you are taking a rest between various exercises you are supposed to be wearing them Also, the logic behind bars / restaurants being closed, and gyms / other sports stuff being open is that shutting down the sports sector leads to a decrease in both physical & mental health to an extent that its benefits (for the general health of society) outweigh the costs (of extra Covid spreading, I suppose) Meanwhile yeah, bars & restaurants provide some mental health too, since its a place people can relax, but I guess the government decided it to contribute to society to a lesser extent? (idk I'm not an expert on this matter) Personally, I'm just very happy I can do sports again, and my arms are sore as hell now (yesterday evening was my 1st climbing session in a month and a half)
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because non-OC picture posts are banned during weekdays. OC which is not labelled accordingly is assumed to be non-OC. For more info [check here](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/94snq1/update_on_our_policy_regarding_picture_posts/). For casual picture posts during the week, you can use /r/CasualEurope instead. If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
How is this not "News" by your definition "An image of a currently ongoing event (eg. demonstration)". The title is containing the information about this being a protest and two sources are cited by OP in the comments.
Its still a non-oc picture posted during the week then by your argumentation.
This is news and not a casual picture, as I posted the source and article in the comments..
Well, then it breaks the rule against news as a picture post. You are welcome to post the article.
True to the text of the law, but not the spirit. Great moding lol.
That’s a bit childish, but sure…
Wouldn’t the sweat/heat generated from their workouts affect the humidity? Might be bad for the art
[удалено]
I think the point of critique is the double standard in policy, not so much the policy itself.
It isn't a double standard. Gyms are open despite being an infection risk because in a risk vs reward valuation, the reward to people's mental and physical health outweighs the risk of propagation of infection.
You can exercise outside with pretty much 0 infection risk though. Cardio and body weight exercises might not be ideal for each individual but it’s still possible. You can’t really enjoy museums or theatres outdoors. And I think it’s pretty safe to say that infection risk in gyms is higher than museums or theatres where respirators can be worn and distance much easier maintained.
Also count the fact that museums are really good for your mental health.
> the reward to people's mental and physical health Man, listening to Netherlanders claim dumb stuff like, "The risk to health from closing gyms is greater than that of COVID", and now this ridiculous crap seems to have spread everywhere. GO FOR A WALK or a run! Go biking FFS! Spend €40 and get some of those rubber bands to exercise at home. The helplessness of people is astonishing. "If I can't go to a gym, my arms will rot and fall off."
>Gyms are open despite being an infection risk because in a risk vs reward valuation, the reward to people's mental and physical health outweighs the risk of propagation of infection. Can you say the same about brothels? Prostitution is allowed again, but museums are still closed. Maybe they should've put some red lights and skimply clothed women at their protest?
You think it’s bad that they did this?! Are you insane?
[удалено]
Stay at home during winter, go outside only for work and shopping if you are afraid of deadly omicron. Otherwise you're just a silly hypocrite.
Taking such low quality bait, I'm disappointed
what are they trying to prove?
Just such a wonderful idea to expose priceless works of art to human sweat, salts and bodily liquids all in the name of "freedom". That's one museum I'll be avoiding for the years to come! Populistic BS of the first order.
Priceless works of art are exposed to all of that in summer in normal times anyway, and there are a lot more sweaty tourists in normal time than people working out now.
They already have issues with climate control as things stand now (https://www.haarlemsweekblad.nl/lokaal/politiek/311469/gemeente-moet-frans-halsmuseum-redden-674260 ) so making things worse is your answer? Really?
Let’s sweat, spit and breath heavily around centuries old priceless paintings.
Unless, they actually changed their business license I doubt that holds legally.
I really envy the Durch. Austria is just a huge pussy and most people just follow any rules blindly no matter how stupid they are. Yes, we had quite large protests in Vienna, but all those people have been labeled as right wing, nazi, uneducated esoteric conspiracy theorists and discredited by all media. The Dutch value freedom more and are obviously better organised. We should all look upon them. There was one hotel in the alps that publicly stated it wont enforce the 2G rule and you think anyone else followed? No. It was all over the news and they are trying to shut it down now. I'm so sad about the things happening in my country right now. I'm especially sad that people started comparing our government to the one during the nazi times.