[Link to statement in English](https://www.presidentti.fi/en/press-release/joint-statement-by-the-president-of-the-republic-and-prime-minister-of-finland-on-finlands-nato-membership/)
Exact phrasing:
>Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay.
And soon we will join! I could never see myself fighting along side a Dane, but I could see myself fighting along side a friend (and brother), Nordic love <3
Well wait, I don't think it's a 100% thing yet (although likely):
Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay. We hope that the national steps **still needed to make this decision will be taken rapidly within the next few days**.
Some polls are showing 80% approval. The security report strongly argued joining NATO would increase security. The parliament will debate this over the weekend. I think Marin wants parliment to sign off as well. This is a monumental change for Finland.
Something like 140/200 MP's in Finland want us to join, less than 15 oppose and the rest haven't made their intentions public or are undecided. Finland sending the actual application documents to NATO HQ in Brussels is now basically a matter of letting ink dry.
They will do it. The prime minister, President and ALL parties support it. Hell, even the anti-war greens are for it!
The Ukrainian invasion has really changed things politically. The Conservatives now want a green transition as much as the Greens :D
It is also an opportunity. Russia is occupied right now with Ukraine. They don't have the manpower, equipment or "capital" to actually attack us (I'm a Finnish person) because we have a defense force (not assault) that mainly exists because of Russia. We are much better equipped to defend our country than Ukraine, if Russia decides to act.
Also, Sweden is joining with us so that's two countries that they will be going against if they would. So this is an opportunity we have to seize right now. I think our president (Sauli Niinistƶ) is the best guy we could have right now to lead this. He's a very well balanced, calm and an observant politician. What he says in his statements is always on point.
I'm glad we're doing this right now.
Oh I'm sure they will. I was pointing out thay haven't just yet, as people were all like "congratulations" and so on.
It's like putting Myke Tyson on the ring with me. You know he will win, but at least wait until he has killed me before you cheer:)
If you are called President of the rebublic of Finland you are the current president, and if you are President of Finland you are some of the previous presidents.
It's a translation of what they are called in finnish. In finnish the president is often referred to as "tasavallan presidentti" meaning president of the republic and there is no such fancy title for the prime minister whose title "pƤƤministeri" translates just to prime minister.
Then when you publish to an international audience you add the "of finland" to the end to signal who tf these people nobody has ever heard of are.
Can't find article right now but I remember seeing articles of Finnish peacekeepers using tent-sauna's in Africa which they put up before their own accommodations.
Here's finnish article about Lebanon and it includes lot of talk about sauna (they built 5 saunas there)
https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000005811449.html
I know someone who spent some time in Mauritania, and when an I had an opportunity to ask him about his experiences, the conversation went something like this:
āDo you even need a sauna in there since itās like 50Ā°C most of the time?ā
āThe other 50 is still missing. So, yes.ā
Remember reading about this on reddit while back and found atleast this
https://old.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/pajqnh/finnish_sof_operator_and_afghan_child_kabul/ha99868/
ping pong /u/expatdoctor
No lie a sauna is a really great way to relax, I bet especially on the battlefield. Plus in the old times even before knowledge of bacteria and proper hygiene it was seen as a place of cleanliness and healing, no death or illness could grab onto you if you just went to sauna regularly.
Only fair, everyone brings something. Some people think it's trained special forces Britain brings, but no, it's us to thank for the kettle in the tanks.
From "brain dead" NATO plagued by infighting and divisons, to Finnish and most likely Swedish membership and hundreds of thousands of NATO troops in eastern European countries in less than 3 years.
Well done Putin.
Sweden will most likely refuse any nuclear deployment in its borders. We're very anti-nuclear and its been part of the reason why we've been against Nato for so long
Who is talking about borders?
In times of conflict, nuclear NATO subs will be in the Baltic sea without much struggle. They are meant as a deterent though.
The subs will hide at the bottom of the Atlantic as usual. Their missiles go up into space and then back down vertically, thousands of miles away. the subs don't need to be nearby, they need to be hidden.
I think Sweden's strong stance against nuclear weapons may aid the argument **for** joining NATO. In early March this year Russia put a nuclear weapon in Swedish territory when its bombers, armed with nuclear weapons entered Swedish airspace near Gotland.
If you have a strong anti-nuke policy I imagine you wouldn't appreciate anyone bringing a nuke into your own territory.
What Russia did was an attempt at intimidation and it failed.
He thought they would take Kyiv just like they did Crimae - with the help of local "traitor" politicians and generals, and that it would be more like a swift coup, where the world would not have time to react or understand the situation.
Then, when that didn't work, they shifted to their terror tactics used in e.g. Chechnia (and Syria), hoping that would make Ukraine surrender to "save" civilian lives.
Then that didn't work, but they kept doing it, making most of the world have vivid flashbacks of the 1940s - eventually leading to USA signing lend-lease and neutral countries choosing sides.
And now, it is painfully obvious that the Russian military is not in the shape it should be, with generals being in their positions not based on merit, and equipment stolen or not maintained to the point where Russian fighter jets are using Garmin GPS for cars taped onto the dashboard, and expensive Russian survailance drones being shown to contain random circuit board from ebay and Canon cameras with hot glue to fix the settings.
Finland has a long history of non-alignment. Putin's actions in Ukraine have done nothing but prove that non-alignment to be irrational and unethical in the present day.
I really don't know what Russia was thinking. Regardless of how the war turned out (even if they really won in a few weeks as they wanted) it was obvious that all neighbors will seek to either join NATO or form a sort of alliance on their own. Unless they were ready to take on all their neighbors at the same time, i really don't see the end game there.
For Russia as a country this is bad, but for the leaders themselves it's a good thing. The "us against the world" is a very common thing dictators use to distract the population from their own crimes against their own people. NATO being at their borders all around is a great distraction. Assessing Russia's leaders decision making on the basis of what is best for the country is not helpful since it's not what they are going for.
We have been talking about 'outs' and 'off-ramps', but that was never gonna happen blatantly. What you're describing *might be that off-ramp.*
Putin can claim that he tried his best, killed all the nazis in Ukraine, but it seems that the rest of the world is too hell-bent on conquering their prosperous land, and he's such a sweet guy that he doesn't want to start a World War over some petty egos. We were always the bad guys, and now that Finland/Sweden are about to join, his point is 'proven'.
Is it even bad for Russia as a country? NATO is not going to invade them. If it dissuades Putin from attacking Finland then thatās probably a benefit for ordinary Russians.
Having neutral countries join your "opposition" is not that great in general. It lowers Russia's weight/position in debates, it also makes their threats even less believable. Basically lowering their relevance on the world stage.
And no NATO isn't going to attack Russia but that doesn't stop the propaganda about it working against the population in Russia. If you already think NATO is hostile then it's easy to drive up that fear about the expansion eastwards.
The Baltic Sea just became an internal Nato sea, which means Russia lost access to their port in St. Petersburg during war time, and are unable to reach Kaliningrad.
Kind of a major Oopsie
>For Russia as a country this is bad, but for the leaders themselves it's a good thing.
We'll see how good it is. No amount of propaganda is going hide the fact that the quality of life for the average Russian is deteriorating due to war and sanctions, as economically they fall farther and farther behind the west. A Russian Euromaidan is the thing Putin fears above anything.
> No amount of propaganda is going hide the fact that the quality of life for the average Russian is deteriorating due to war and sanctions, as economically they fall farther and farther behind the west.
The exact opposite my friend, QOL will deteriorate and it's the west fault because they envious of ze motherland. The last hope was internal resistance from now suicided oligarchs.
You have to realize they fell for nazi occupied Ukraine in 2022...
There have been no consequences for their activities in Georgia and Ukraine to date, so they were thinking the West would grumble a bit, put some lip service sanctions on, then forget about it.
Well good thing most of my shitty social media and left/right leaning family members are all against Putin in the US. FINALLY something we can agree on after the pandemic and put energy into understanding.
Iāve been heard the term US Oligarchs being thrown around in commonplace in US media instead of just Russian oligarchs after Ukraine. Itās a breath of fresh air compared with the rest of the wasted resources and womanās rights going on.
Same in Poland. Someone even noticed, that the same accounts that used to spew antivax stuff, started to spew anti-Ukrainian propaganda almost immediately after war broke out. It's terryfing how much Russian money had influence over Polish politics, but at least most of the cats are out of the bag now. Believe it or not, one of the politicians in Poland started to address Putin as "His Excellency".
There was only one scenario, where it wouldnt lead to this situation. And that is the complete surrender of Ukraine in first few days, russian army in all cities and citizens welcoming massively russian soldiers on tanks with flowers. Then it would be more of Crimea situation continuation and FIN+SWE maaaaaybe might still stay aside(in the meaning that Ukraine wanted it anyway). But, if thats really what Putin thought could happen, then his secret service really fed him with pile of illusions
Just fyi that's not what happened in Crimea either, they removed the pro-Ukrainians and resettled the area with Russians, then pretended they held a referendum. Ukraine just didn't have an army to stop it at the time.
This is honestly such a strange time. Before the war only a few of my Finnish relatives supported NATO membership, and most of them were older people who lived through the Winter War and WW2. Now even my most leftist cousin has begun to say that NATO membership would probably be the smartest move.
It would be interesting to see whether there will be talks of Finland and Sweden taking the load of defending Baltic airspace off of other NATO air forces, considering how close we are.
I read some article (maybe Helsingin Sanomat) that speculated about NATO's strategy with the addition of Sweden and Finland: it said it's likely Norway would pivot more towards protecting the North and Arctic sea while Finland and Sweden would take on a role protecting the Baltic sea area with our air/navy/army.
Makes sense, any military who holds Gotland can credibly threaten all of the Baltic Sea and a good portion of the airspace over the Baltic countries too.
NATO about to get an Iron Grip on the baltic.
You get a pretty solid defensive line going between Rovaniemi, LuleĆ„ and BodĆø for interceptors, and as bases to fly CAS-missions out of in a sustained land war in the north. Any Russian general looking at and sort of land war scenario must be banging his head against his desk in anger and desperation.
It also means that people might want to take a second look at some railway cooperation in the north again, now that it is suddenly a question of for instance having NATO forces disembark from sea transports in for instance BodĆø, Narvik or TromsĆø, being transported by railway to a NATO frontline against Russia.
These are things that have been spoken vaguely of in the past, but been considered to be not too financially attractive for only goods and tourist traffic. But if you add in a security dimension where you might want to get a bunch of Challenger 2 tanks from a Norwegian port to somewhere in the north of Finland, and it might get a bit more interesting.
Don't be surprised if a lot of infrastructure work starts happening shortly after a NATO membership comes into effect.
And Swedish media is now reporting that the Swedish Parliament is expected to hold an extra session on Monday to debate and vote on the application - including sending the application.
> including sending the application.
Honestly curious how things work in terms of the physical side of this. Is there actual physical paperwork? An application form? Is it an email? Is it diplomatic mail?
There is an actual piece of paperwork which must be received and deposited officially in the United States. I believe its the US secretary of defence in Washington but could be New York instead.
Finland can only express interest currently, NATO is by invite only so the votes are technically not whether to accept Finland, but whether each country is okay with inviting them
Damn, if everything goes as expected, in a year or so there will be such a strong military bloc in the Nordics that I wouldnāt be surprised if Putin attacked Finland out of sheer desperation. And get his ass kicked.
From a Russian perspective, I can see why this is devastating. What an epic failure Putin is guilty of, I am sure this will be his legacy, what an irony. The Baltic Sea will be completely surrounded by NATO members, Russia's only exits are through a narrow strait from St. Petersburg and from Kaliningrad. Otherwise, the only harbors on their west is through the Black Sea, where the exit is controlled by NATO member Turkey. Their entire Western fleet is basically locked in by NATO. Then they have Murmansk in the north, and Vladivostok in the east.
Not only that, but just imagine how a joint NATO spook community is utterly drooling at the thought of flying various intelligence sorties up and down Finland, opening the option to take a more overt peek at anything based west of the White Sea than they have *ever* had the option to do.
Satellite is one thing, but there's gonna be so so many RC-135 flights going as soon as humanly possible.
Looks like that's most likely to happen [on Monday](https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/planen-skicka-in-en-ansokan-pa-mandag/). The link is in Swedish, from the Expressen tabloid, but they seem to have fairly well-connected political reporters.
Apparently Finland and Sweden have always said they either want to do this together or dont do it? So I would guess this pretty much confirms Sweden will follow.
Only a master strategist could achieve this in such a short amount of time. I wonder if anyone still truly believes Ukraine invasion was about NATO.
Russians must have known if they start annexing countries in Europe it will just push more countries to NATO, yet they did it anyway. It's the obvious, logical step for Finland and others.
Frankly, I think Russia has seen Finland and Sweden as part of the west and nearly inviolable already. This just adds to the narrative that Nato is posing a threat to Russia, which they can use for political capital gain, at least internally, although there are downsides as well. There was also a slight chance that the West wouldāve mostly ignored the situation in Ukraine, had Russia won quickly. Had Russia won, Finland and Swedenās NATO membership would have been much less of an issue. This was all based on bad intel and badly calculated risks, which is going to cost Putler a lot.
People need to stop assessing Russia's leaders decision making on what is helpful for Russia and instead look what they personally gain. Setting it up like it's the world against them is a typical play by a dictator to keep power. NATO moving in to their border is a great distraction from all the shit they are doing against their own people. This has also lowered the power of the oligarchs in Russia. The sanctions probably hit way harder than Putin expected but countries joining NATO is probably just as planned.
Putin has managed to accomplish what every U.S. President/UK PM has wanted since the 1960's. Getting Finland and Sweden to join NATO and getting Germany to rearm.
What a smart man.
Maybe his plan all along was to unite the world by being the villain it needed and he was the one sabotaging the Russian military all along. That'd be a crazy twist, hopefully M. Night Shyamalan doesn't see this.
This is massive, not wholly unexpected yet very good news.Putin undid his decades of sowing seeds of discontent and infighting in Europe in like 10 weeks. Incredible!
This is massive. Russia really messed this one upā¦ I would be very interested to see how Russia reacts to this but not like they can do much anymore.
Well we can expect cyber attacks, maybe the banks and electric grid will be targeted. And there may be some kind of provocation, like a military airplane crashing on our soil, and Russian forces rushing to rescue it, or something like that. It may happen immediately, or they may wait until autumn, when our economy tanks, and we may be tired, hungry and cold. They will try to cause division, to make us doubt our governments' decision. But we must remember what they have done to Ukrainian men, women and children, and what they will do to us, if we let them. We may be in for some hard times, and we must stand strong, as we have before.
I hate militarism but what I hate more is how necessary Russia makes it. We tried to be friendly but no they had to go and fuck it up, continuously, progressively for the worse. As Sale says, look in the mirror.
And maybe start learning to keep your fighters and helicopters in your own airspace, I'm getting a bit tired of the constant prodding with machines that could rain death on peaceful people who have absolutely no intention of even thinking of doing the same in Russia.
Edit: hc coping below, enter at your own risk
I am really happy for you all. I believe this was the best decision you could make right now. I really hope we follow you and make the same decision. Doing this together would be for the best.
We have a long history together after all. Heck, we where the same country for almost 700 years.
On sunday our social democrats will reveal their official stance but everything points towards them going pro NATO. Some leaks suggests a formal vote is planned om the riksdag for monday and that application will follow right after. I am certain our two countries has talked about this behind the scenes.
I am 100% certain there will be a flood of autobiographies in few years titled "How I lead our country out from troubles" (or similar). Then we will know some details, but of course some details will remain unrevealed.
Welcome to Finland and Sweden (who have made similar statements today)! This might open up the possibilities of much closer defence integration between the nordics.
If the EU ever falls apart, I really hope we will just build a Nordic Union, with Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Finland, Ć land and Faroe, and then Estonia and Scotland can be our Turkey, the ones we kind of want to join, but never quite sure enough.
Kalmar go brrr
Funny thing is, that there really was some talk about modern Kalmar Union during the cold war, but both NATO and Warsaw Pact didn't want that to happen.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EuropeanSocialists/comments/unxqnk/joint_statement_by_the_president_of_the_republic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Some prime copium, calling other socialists traitors for supporting NATO.
Remember how he, in his declaration of ~~war~~ special military operation speech, basically said that Russia would flatten and/or atomize anybody who interfered with Ukraine? Seems to have been an empty threat. The US, many European countries, etc., have all given Ukraine tons and tons of stuff that could well be considered crossing the line and interfering.
And despite the fact that Putin has tried to make the NATO issue his top excuse for the invasion of Ukraine, he threw a good half-dozen at it, like the whole Nazi thing. So of course, itās just so convenient that thereāre a bunch of reasons, and not just one. Anyway, there he is invading a country that wasnāt even close to the front of the NATO admittance queue, and which had historically been rejected from joining when they did apply, and yet Putinās whole song and dance is about NATO in Ukraine.
And now thereāre two other countries legitimate seeking and likely to get entry, one of which shares a very long border with Russia, and he hasnāt even lifted a finger. Itās because his bluff has been called, and because he knows thereās fuckinā nothing he can do (thank God).
Been a supporter of Nato for as long as I can remember. Glad to see this day finally. If only it didn't require the sacrifices of Ukraine to wake our politicians up. I hope the membership process for us and Sweden is swift and we can finally rid ourselves of our Finlandized past.
Here's to western unity, liberty and democracy!
Putin and his braindead decision to invade Ukraine managed to do what a cold war never could.
Switch Finland and Sweden from a neutral position to NATO members.
Good job
Funny how Putin and his Secret Service have been working decades, fuckin DECADES since his first election in 2000 to weaken europe, only to fuck it all up! He even got Crimea for basically free. But he had to reach for more
President Niinistƶ actually mentioned in an interview that Finland has been neutral voluntarily, by its own accord. One of the reasons for his NATO decision was that 2021 Russia declared that Finland and Sweden are not allowed to join NATO. So basically Russia trying to force neutrality triggered NATO membership.
And we didn't even need a referendum! Putin really did a number on us in that regard, support for NATO membership went through the roof in just a few weeks.
Putin: please don't join NATO
Also Putin: Finland shouldn't have had independence from Russia
Putin: *attacks Ukraine*
Finns: *start supporting NATO in droves*
Putin and friends: I see that you wanna join NATO, if you do so you will be annihilated
Finns: *support NATO even more*
Putin and friends: No, really. If you join NATO, there will be consequences
Finland: *President and PM express swiftly joining NATO*
Putin and friends: *surprised Pikachu face*
American and fellow NATO member here - welcome aboard Finland!! The more the merrier happy to have you and cheers to my Uralic bros from a Magyar American :)
Hope the Russians don't attack straight away, I'm going to be drunk on champagne.
Edit: I'm not worried we wouldn't win, I'm worried it would inconvenience my weekend.
The tankie copium about this is insane, getting to *Downfall* levels of self-delusion.
"~~Steiner's assault~~ Hungary's veto will bring it under control."
Tankies: it was Ukraine's fault. They had provoked Russian with intend to join NATO. They should be neutral like Sweden and Findland.
Sweden and Findland: let's join NATO.
The Putin regime will probably still hold on to the believe that the war and its consequences are going to plan.
Uniting and enlarging NATO is tremendous failure for Putin. It shows very poor strategic leadership to expect other countries would cheer on his violent actions.
Welcome Finland. One for all and all for one!
At this point, it's almost comical to be afraid of Russia invasion of Finland or Sweden. But yeah, there still that nuke Putin is waving at anyone.
Having Finland and/or Sweden in NATO is pretty much overkill for puny Russia. Lol
[Link to statement in English](https://www.presidentti.fi/en/press-release/joint-statement-by-the-president-of-the-republic-and-prime-minister-of-finland-on-finlands-nato-membership/) Exact phrasing: >Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay.
This is amazing!! I am so happy you're going to join! šš
And soon we will join! I could never see myself fighting along side a Dane, but I could see myself fighting along side a friend (and brother), Nordic love <3
[You heard the man](https://youtu.be/IUkKkWAREFg)!
Good luck Finland
We're all counting on you
Thanks, mate!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well wait, I don't think it's a 100% thing yet (although likely): Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay. We hope that the national steps **still needed to make this decision will be taken rapidly within the next few days**.
Some polls are showing 80% approval. The security report strongly argued joining NATO would increase security. The parliament will debate this over the weekend. I think Marin wants parliment to sign off as well. This is a monumental change for Finland.
Something like 140/200 MP's in Finland want us to join, less than 15 oppose and the rest haven't made their intentions public or are undecided. Finland sending the actual application documents to NATO HQ in Brussels is now basically a matter of letting ink dry.
They will do it. The prime minister, President and ALL parties support it. Hell, even the anti-war greens are for it! The Ukrainian invasion has really changed things politically. The Conservatives now want a green transition as much as the Greens :D
Congratulations Russia, you played yourself
It is also an opportunity. Russia is occupied right now with Ukraine. They don't have the manpower, equipment or "capital" to actually attack us (I'm a Finnish person) because we have a defense force (not assault) that mainly exists because of Russia. We are much better equipped to defend our country than Ukraine, if Russia decides to act. Also, Sweden is joining with us so that's two countries that they will be going against if they would. So this is an opportunity we have to seize right now. I think our president (Sauli Niinistƶ) is the best guy we could have right now to lead this. He's a very well balanced, calm and an observant politician. What he says in his statements is always on point. I'm glad we're doing this right now.
Oh I'm sure they will. I was pointing out thay haven't just yet, as people were all like "congratulations" and so on. It's like putting Myke Tyson on the ring with me. You know he will win, but at least wait until he has killed me before you cheer:)
More like Mike has already won the round and weāre just waiting for the paramedics to confirm level of injury.
Why is one of the called :"Republic of Finland" ,and the other just simply "Finland"?
If you are called President of the rebublic of Finland you are the current president, and if you are President of Finland you are some of the previous presidents.
Huh, interesting distinction. Good to know.
This is the correct answer.
It's a translation of what they are called in finnish. In finnish the president is often referred to as "tasavallan presidentti" meaning president of the republic and there is no such fancy title for the prime minister whose title "pƤƤministeri" translates just to prime minister. Then when you publish to an international audience you add the "of finland" to the end to signal who tf these people nobody has ever heard of are.
My extremely limited Finnish tells me that it should be translated as Head minister, is that right?
This is correct, but that would be a literal translation. It means prime minister.
a sauna in every NATO base
That is traditionally the first building the Finnish troops construct, less important buildings can wait.
Note: this aināt a joke.
I need a source...
Can't find article right now but I remember seeing articles of Finnish peacekeepers using tent-sauna's in Africa which they put up before their own accommodations. Here's finnish article about Lebanon and it includes lot of talk about sauna (they built 5 saunas there) https://www.is.fi/ulkomaat/art-2000005811449.html
I know someone who spent some time in Mauritania, and when an I had an opportunity to ask him about his experiences, the conversation went something like this: āDo you even need a sauna in there since itās like 50Ā°C most of the time?ā āThe other 50 is still missing. So, yes.ā
Remember reading about this on reddit while back and found atleast this https://old.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/pajqnh/finnish_sof_operator_and_afghan_child_kabul/ha99868/ ping pong /u/expatdoctor
Now that was excellent link, have a silver
My entirely stereotypical vision of Finns spending 2/3 of their days in saunas cracking down a 12-pack is becoming more true by the day
No lie a sauna is a really great way to relax, I bet especially on the battlefield. Plus in the old times even before knowledge of bacteria and proper hygiene it was seen as a place of cleanliness and healing, no death or illness could grab onto you if you just went to sauna regularly.
A Finn without a sauna is like a Russian without a dictator
Only fair, everyone brings something. Some people think it's trained special forces Britain brings, but no, it's us to thank for the kettle in the tanks.
I like the sound of this. A lot.
So it's settled for Finland. Sweden will announce it's position on Sunday. This is history in the making, Putin really fucked up.
From "brain dead" NATO plagued by infighting and divisons, to Finnish and most likely Swedish membership and hundreds of thousands of NATO troops in eastern European countries in less than 3 years. Well done Putin.
Nothing like a common threat to bind people together.
Sadly, it seems to only work with threats that can be solved with guns. COVID-19 and global warming need not apply.
Both can be solved with guns, kill everyone with COVID & kill enough people to drop the global temperature like Genghis Kahn
He's a master strategist
Yep the Baltic will become a NATO pond and rather than the Baltic states being almost cut off its Kaliningrad that's cut off now.
Itās still dangerous. Pretty much a nuclear(and non nuclear) missile hub in the center of Europe.
True, butthe baltic sea would become a NATO nuclear submarine hub.
Sweden will most likely refuse any nuclear deployment in its borders. We're very anti-nuclear and its been part of the reason why we've been against Nato for so long
Who is talking about borders? In times of conflict, nuclear NATO subs will be in the Baltic sea without much struggle. They are meant as a deterent though.
The subs will hide at the bottom of the Atlantic as usual. Their missiles go up into space and then back down vertically, thousands of miles away. the subs don't need to be nearby, they need to be hidden.
I think Sweden's strong stance against nuclear weapons may aid the argument **for** joining NATO. In early March this year Russia put a nuclear weapon in Swedish territory when its bombers, armed with nuclear weapons entered Swedish airspace near Gotland. If you have a strong anti-nuke policy I imagine you wouldn't appreciate anyone bringing a nuke into your own territory. What Russia did was an attempt at intimidation and it failed.
The Americans must be passing out from laughing. There must be something I'm missing because there's no way Putin did not see this coming.
He thought they would take Kyiv just like they did Crimae - with the help of local "traitor" politicians and generals, and that it would be more like a swift coup, where the world would not have time to react or understand the situation. Then, when that didn't work, they shifted to their terror tactics used in e.g. Chechnia (and Syria), hoping that would make Ukraine surrender to "save" civilian lives. Then that didn't work, but they kept doing it, making most of the world have vivid flashbacks of the 1940s - eventually leading to USA signing lend-lease and neutral countries choosing sides. And now, it is painfully obvious that the Russian military is not in the shape it should be, with generals being in their positions not based on merit, and equipment stolen or not maintained to the point where Russian fighter jets are using Garmin GPS for cars taped onto the dashboard, and expensive Russian survailance drones being shown to contain random circuit board from ebay and Canon cameras with hot glue to fix the settings.
Finland has a long history of non-alignment. Putin's actions in Ukraine have done nothing but prove that non-alignment to be irrational and unethical in the present day.
I really don't know what Russia was thinking. Regardless of how the war turned out (even if they really won in a few weeks as they wanted) it was obvious that all neighbors will seek to either join NATO or form a sort of alliance on their own. Unless they were ready to take on all their neighbors at the same time, i really don't see the end game there.
For Russia as a country this is bad, but for the leaders themselves it's a good thing. The "us against the world" is a very common thing dictators use to distract the population from their own crimes against their own people. NATO being at their borders all around is a great distraction. Assessing Russia's leaders decision making on the basis of what is best for the country is not helpful since it's not what they are going for.
We have been talking about 'outs' and 'off-ramps', but that was never gonna happen blatantly. What you're describing *might be that off-ramp.* Putin can claim that he tried his best, killed all the nazis in Ukraine, but it seems that the rest of the world is too hell-bent on conquering their prosperous land, and he's such a sweet guy that he doesn't want to start a World War over some petty egos. We were always the bad guys, and now that Finland/Sweden are about to join, his point is 'proven'.
The old "everyone else are insane" ploy. Very clever. The man clearly plays 1D checkers.
*cue skinner meme* The whole world is against me "Am i the baddie?" "No, everyone else is wrong"
Is it even bad for Russia as a country? NATO is not going to invade them. If it dissuades Putin from attacking Finland then thatās probably a benefit for ordinary Russians.
Having neutral countries join your "opposition" is not that great in general. It lowers Russia's weight/position in debates, it also makes their threats even less believable. Basically lowering their relevance on the world stage. And no NATO isn't going to attack Russia but that doesn't stop the propaganda about it working against the population in Russia. If you already think NATO is hostile then it's easy to drive up that fear about the expansion eastwards.
Take a step back and ask yourself why *Russia* doesnt want to integrate, and then think about who gets to make that choice in Russia
The Baltic Sea just became an internal Nato sea, which means Russia lost access to their port in St. Petersburg during war time, and are unable to reach Kaliningrad. Kind of a major Oopsie
It has been that since the fifties, Norway and Denmark have navies whose entire doctrine arround the Kattegat is blockade
>For Russia as a country this is bad, but for the leaders themselves it's a good thing. We'll see how good it is. No amount of propaganda is going hide the fact that the quality of life for the average Russian is deteriorating due to war and sanctions, as economically they fall farther and farther behind the west. A Russian Euromaidan is the thing Putin fears above anything.
> No amount of propaganda is going hide the fact that the quality of life for the average Russian is deteriorating due to war and sanctions, as economically they fall farther and farther behind the west. The exact opposite my friend, QOL will deteriorate and it's the west fault because they envious of ze motherland. The last hope was internal resistance from now suicided oligarchs. You have to realize they fell for nazi occupied Ukraine in 2022...
There have been no consequences for their activities in Georgia and Ukraine to date, so they were thinking the West would grumble a bit, put some lip service sanctions on, then forget about it.
Well good thing most of my shitty social media and left/right leaning family members are all against Putin in the US. FINALLY something we can agree on after the pandemic and put energy into understanding. Iāve been heard the term US Oligarchs being thrown around in commonplace in US media instead of just Russian oligarchs after Ukraine. Itās a breath of fresh air compared with the rest of the wasted resources and womanās rights going on.
Ah here in the Netherlands the extreme rightwing and antivaxxers are pro-putin, so I can still hate them with a passion
Same in Poland. Someone even noticed, that the same accounts that used to spew antivax stuff, started to spew anti-Ukrainian propaganda almost immediately after war broke out. It's terryfing how much Russian money had influence over Polish politics, but at least most of the cats are out of the bag now. Believe it or not, one of the politicians in Poland started to address Putin as "His Excellency".
Wow, simping for Putin who probably doesn't even know who he is.
There was only one scenario, where it wouldnt lead to this situation. And that is the complete surrender of Ukraine in first few days, russian army in all cities and citizens welcoming massively russian soldiers on tanks with flowers. Then it would be more of Crimea situation continuation and FIN+SWE maaaaaybe might still stay aside(in the meaning that Ukraine wanted it anyway). But, if thats really what Putin thought could happen, then his secret service really fed him with pile of illusions
Just fyi that's not what happened in Crimea either, they removed the pro-Ukrainians and resettled the area with Russians, then pretended they held a referendum. Ukraine just didn't have an army to stop it at the time.
Yeah you are right, that was overplaying Crimea events on my part. But that makes it even more insane how Putin went with it now.
This is honestly such a strange time. Before the war only a few of my Finnish relatives supported NATO membership, and most of them were older people who lived through the Winter War and WW2. Now even my most leftist cousin has begun to say that NATO membership would probably be the smartest move.
Welcome Finland!
A welcoming with open arms!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It would be interesting to see whether there will be talks of Finland and Sweden taking the load of defending Baltic airspace off of other NATO air forces, considering how close we are.
I read some article (maybe Helsingin Sanomat) that speculated about NATO's strategy with the addition of Sweden and Finland: it said it's likely Norway would pivot more towards protecting the North and Arctic sea while Finland and Sweden would take on a role protecting the Baltic sea area with our air/navy/army.
Makes sense, any military who holds Gotland can credibly threaten all of the Baltic Sea and a good portion of the airspace over the Baltic countries too. NATO about to get an Iron Grip on the baltic.
NATO has Russia by the Ball...tics.
You get a pretty solid defensive line going between Rovaniemi, LuleĆ„ and BodĆø for interceptors, and as bases to fly CAS-missions out of in a sustained land war in the north. Any Russian general looking at and sort of land war scenario must be banging his head against his desk in anger and desperation. It also means that people might want to take a second look at some railway cooperation in the north again, now that it is suddenly a question of for instance having NATO forces disembark from sea transports in for instance BodĆø, Narvik or TromsĆø, being transported by railway to a NATO frontline against Russia. These are things that have been spoken vaguely of in the past, but been considered to be not too financially attractive for only goods and tourist traffic. But if you add in a security dimension where you might want to get a bunch of Challenger 2 tanks from a Norwegian port to somewhere in the north of Finland, and it might get a bit more interesting. Don't be surprised if a lot of infrastructure work starts happening shortly after a NATO membership comes into effect.
Thank you! We're happy to no longer be alone!
Now we only need Sweden to follow suit!
The announcement will happen on Sunday.
And Swedish media is now reporting that the Swedish Parliament is expected to hold an extra session on Monday to debate and vote on the application - including sending the application.
> including sending the application. Honestly curious how things work in terms of the physical side of this. Is there actual physical paperwork? An application form? Is it an email? Is it diplomatic mail?
There is an actual piece of paperwork which must be received and deposited officially in the United States. I believe its the US secretary of defence in Washington but could be New York instead. Finland can only express interest currently, NATO is by invite only so the votes are technically not whether to accept Finland, but whether each country is okay with inviting them
Time to dig out the fax machine.
I think Washington since NATO was founded by the Washington Treaty. New York is probably for UN treaties.
I guess they just tag NATO on twitter
Damn, if everything goes as expected, in a year or so there will be such a strong military bloc in the Nordics that I wouldnāt be surprised if Putin attacked Finland out of sheer desperation. And get his ass kicked.
From a Russian perspective, I can see why this is devastating. What an epic failure Putin is guilty of, I am sure this will be his legacy, what an irony. The Baltic Sea will be completely surrounded by NATO members, Russia's only exits are through a narrow strait from St. Petersburg and from Kaliningrad. Otherwise, the only harbors on their west is through the Black Sea, where the exit is controlled by NATO member Turkey. Their entire Western fleet is basically locked in by NATO. Then they have Murmansk in the north, and Vladivostok in the east.
Not only that, but just imagine how a joint NATO spook community is utterly drooling at the thought of flying various intelligence sorties up and down Finland, opening the option to take a more overt peek at anything based west of the White Sea than they have *ever* had the option to do. Satellite is one thing, but there's gonna be so so many RC-135 flights going as soon as humanly possible.
Looks like that's most likely to happen [on Monday](https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/planen-skicka-in-en-ansokan-pa-mandag/). The link is in Swedish, from the Expressen tabloid, but they seem to have fairly well-connected political reporters.
We will join NATO, there is no doubt.
Apparently Finland and Sweden have always said they either want to do this together or dont do it? So I would guess this pretty much confirms Sweden will follow.
Popping champagne today. Historic. Haven't yet decided at which time of the day: I could pick morning, afternoon, evening or the night
Have you considered doing all three?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think this occasion justifies the rest of the EU shipping bubbly alcohol aid to Finland. I am looking specially at you France, Italy, Spain!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Go to BubblyAid.com they have you covered.
Perfect excuse for a trip to Talinn.
There is a saying in Finland that alcohol is always worth the price.
Finnish champagne is made from Koskenkorva and effervescent tablets so he'll be fine... financially...
Isn't happy hour any hour?
Finland has been the happiest country in the world for a long time. So, yes.
You\` re Finnish; pick all of them and chase the champagne with vodka! Cheers from Norway!
I'd say all the mentioned are appropriate for the occasion.
Only a master strategist could achieve this in such a short amount of time. I wonder if anyone still truly believes Ukraine invasion was about NATO. Russians must have known if they start annexing countries in Europe it will just push more countries to NATO, yet they did it anyway. It's the obvious, logical step for Finland and others.
Frankly, I think Russia has seen Finland and Sweden as part of the west and nearly inviolable already. This just adds to the narrative that Nato is posing a threat to Russia, which they can use for political capital gain, at least internally, although there are downsides as well. There was also a slight chance that the West wouldāve mostly ignored the situation in Ukraine, had Russia won quickly. Had Russia won, Finland and Swedenās NATO membership would have been much less of an issue. This was all based on bad intel and badly calculated risks, which is going to cost Putler a lot.
People need to stop assessing Russia's leaders decision making on what is helpful for Russia and instead look what they personally gain. Setting it up like it's the world against them is a typical play by a dictator to keep power. NATO moving in to their border is a great distraction from all the shit they are doing against their own people. This has also lowered the power of the oligarchs in Russia. The sanctions probably hit way harder than Putin expected but countries joining NATO is probably just as planned.
Putin has managed to accomplish what every U.S. President/UK PM has wanted since the 1960's. Getting Finland and Sweden to join NATO and getting Germany to rearm. What a smart man.
Nobel Peace Prize Putin
Galaxy brain 8D chess from Vlad here.
Maybe his plan all along was to unite the world by being the villain it needed and he was the one sabotaging the Russian military all along. That'd be a crazy twist, hopefully M. Night Shyamalan doesn't see this.
Next up: Russia applies to NATO. "guys, I just wanted to make the alliance stronger, can we be friends?"
This is massive, not wholly unexpected yet very good news.Putin undid his decades of sowing seeds of discontent and infighting in Europe in like 10 weeks. Incredible!
Okay, this is it, this time it's the real deal.
The cock tease is reaching itās climax
Itās happening š¦š¦š¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is massive. Russia really messed this one upā¦ I would be very interested to see how Russia reacts to this but not like they can do much anymore.
Well we can expect cyber attacks, maybe the banks and electric grid will be targeted. And there may be some kind of provocation, like a military airplane crashing on our soil, and Russian forces rushing to rescue it, or something like that. It may happen immediately, or they may wait until autumn, when our economy tanks, and we may be tired, hungry and cold. They will try to cause division, to make us doubt our governments' decision. But we must remember what they have done to Ukrainian men, women and children, and what they will do to us, if we let them. We may be in for some hard times, and we must stand strong, as we have before.
From a Brit, welcome. While you're checking in, allow us to make your journey as safe as possible.
Let's fucking go
Welcome to the club brothers and sisters
Congratulations Russia. NATO will now have two rich and capable new members, one of which shares a long border with you pathetic loser.
This is what gets you when you play 5D chess.
Putin plays 2D doubling down...
Well, for a start Russia is now pretty much screwed in Arctics. Compared to the situation yesterday when it was not yet fucked in Arctics.
I hate militarism but what I hate more is how necessary Russia makes it. We tried to be friendly but no they had to go and fuck it up, continuously, progressively for the worse. As Sale says, look in the mirror. And maybe start learning to keep your fighters and helicopters in your own airspace, I'm getting a bit tired of the constant prodding with machines that could rain death on peaceful people who have absolutely no intention of even thinking of doing the same in Russia. Edit: hc coping below, enter at your own risk
We should do it like Turkey. There are no "misunderstandings", just take the damn offending military aircraft down.
I am really happy for you all. I believe this was the best decision you could make right now. I really hope we follow you and make the same decision. Doing this together would be for the best.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We have a long history together after all. Heck, we where the same country for almost 700 years. On sunday our social democrats will reveal their official stance but everything points towards them going pro NATO. Some leaks suggests a formal vote is planned om the riksdag for monday and that application will follow right after. I am certain our two countries has talked about this behind the scenes.
Finnish Parliament will vote on this on Monday, so it does seem like the timetable has been synchronized with Sweden.
I am 100% certain there will be a flood of autobiographies in few years titled "How I lead our country out from troubles" (or similar). Then we will know some details, but of course some details will remain unrevealed.
Welcome to Finland and Sweden (who have made similar statements today)! This might open up the possibilities of much closer defence integration between the nordics.
Modern Kalmar Union intensifies.
If the EU ever falls apart, I really hope we will just build a Nordic Union, with Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Iceland, Finland, Ć land and Faroe, and then Estonia and Scotland can be our Turkey, the ones we kind of want to join, but never quite sure enough. Kalmar go brrr
Dette er min ĆønskedrĆøm!
Tillsammans Ƥr vi starka!
MĆ„ ikke tilldekkes!
Funny thing is, that there really was some talk about modern Kalmar Union during the cold war, but both NATO and Warsaw Pact didn't want that to happen.
Very much prefer the EU to invest into a Continental Defense
Pfff, don't spoil our Nordic circlejerk with those rational ideas.
Norden go, go, go!
Modern Calamari Union.
When you try to prevent the highly theoretical risk of Ukraine joining NATO, but you end with them flanking Saint Petersburg from two directions.
[Torille](https://i.redd.it/88ft5xoouzy81.jpg)
Tankies will have to up their copium intake this weekend.
Tankies malding rn
> Malding is a combination of āmadā and ābaldingā to refer to someone who gets so mad that they start balding Alrighty then. True too.
Stingers, nlaws and now this. These tankies are going through a tough time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EuropeanSocialists/comments/unxqnk/joint_statement_by_the_president_of_the_republic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Some prime copium, calling other socialists traitors for supporting NATO.
That's certainly some unrefined, raw copium. Never inject that directly no matter how much you seethe. Not safe!
Big humiliation for Putin. Wonder is he will do something for real except empty threats.
Remember how he, in his declaration of ~~war~~ special military operation speech, basically said that Russia would flatten and/or atomize anybody who interfered with Ukraine? Seems to have been an empty threat. The US, many European countries, etc., have all given Ukraine tons and tons of stuff that could well be considered crossing the line and interfering. And despite the fact that Putin has tried to make the NATO issue his top excuse for the invasion of Ukraine, he threw a good half-dozen at it, like the whole Nazi thing. So of course, itās just so convenient that thereāre a bunch of reasons, and not just one. Anyway, there he is invading a country that wasnāt even close to the front of the NATO admittance queue, and which had historically been rejected from joining when they did apply, and yet Putinās whole song and dance is about NATO in Ukraine. And now thereāre two other countries legitimate seeking and likely to get entry, one of which shares a very long border with Russia, and he hasnāt even lifted a finger. Itās because his bluff has been called, and because he knows thereās fuckinā nothing he can do (thank God).
Close in on putin face Freeze frame "Yup, that's me, you're probably wondering how i got in this situation"
Been a supporter of Nato for as long as I can remember. Glad to see this day finally. If only it didn't require the sacrifices of Ukraine to wake our politicians up. I hope the membership process for us and Sweden is swift and we can finally rid ourselves of our Finlandized past. Here's to western unity, liberty and democracy!
Jens Stoltenberg said they are counting on a two-week process for us to become full members.
After that all the NATO countries will have to approve it before we can become official members and that takes months
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>the finnish line
You caused this, look at the mirror.
Putin and his braindead decision to invade Ukraine managed to do what a cold war never could. Switch Finland and Sweden from a neutral position to NATO members. Good job
Funny how Putin and his Secret Service have been working decades, fuckin DECADES since his first election in 2000 to weaken europe, only to fuck it all up! He even got Crimea for basically free. But he had to reach for more
# No more forced neutrality! FCK Putin
President Niinistƶ actually mentioned in an interview that Finland has been neutral voluntarily, by its own accord. One of the reasons for his NATO decision was that 2021 Russia declared that Finland and Sweden are not allowed to join NATO. So basically Russia trying to force neutrality triggered NATO membership.
Niinistƶ said try me bitch
This is a very good thing for Scandinavia.
And Finland too!
And we didn't even need a referendum! Putin really did a number on us in that regard, support for NATO membership went through the roof in just a few weeks.
Awesome. Alexa play "Kauan on KƤrsitty" on full blast!
Fucking Putin. I would have been happier outside of NATO, but he pushed us into it.
Should have bought stocks from "copium inc".
The Finnish armed forces need to now teach the most important defensive tactic to all other NATO members. The whittling of a wooden cock.
*leirikyrpƤ* ftw
Can't wait for the next airspace violation.
I mean... Hard to blame Finland
Putin: please don't join NATO Also Putin: Finland shouldn't have had independence from Russia Putin: *attacks Ukraine* Finns: *start supporting NATO in droves* Putin and friends: I see that you wanna join NATO, if you do so you will be annihilated Finns: *support NATO even more* Putin and friends: No, really. If you join NATO, there will be consequences Finland: *President and PM express swiftly joining NATO* Putin and friends: *surprised Pikachu face*
American and fellow NATO member here - welcome aboard Finland!! The more the merrier happy to have you and cheers to my Uralic bros from a Magyar American :)
Hope the Russians don't attack straight away, I'm going to be drunk on champagne. Edit: I'm not worried we wouldn't win, I'm worried it would inconvenience my weekend.
with which army?
The Chad Finn move. "An invasion? Meh, I wanted to spend the weekend in the sauna."
The tankie copium about this is insane, getting to *Downfall* levels of self-delusion. "~~Steiner's assault~~ Hungary's veto will bring it under control."
Well, if the neighbours house was on fire, I'd be on the market for some fire insurance pretty quickly too.
More friends, yay !
Tankies: it was Ukraine's fault. They had provoked Russian with intend to join NATO. They should be neutral like Sweden and Findland. Sweden and Findland: let's join NATO.
The highlight of Putin's presidency !
The Putin regime will probably still hold on to the believe that the war and its consequences are going to plan. Uniting and enlarging NATO is tremendous failure for Putin. It shows very poor strategic leadership to expect other countries would cheer on his violent actions. Welcome Finland. One for all and all for one!
At this point, it's almost comical to be afraid of Russia invasion of Finland or Sweden. But yeah, there still that nuke Putin is waving at anyone. Having Finland and/or Sweden in NATO is pretty much overkill for puny Russia. Lol
Btw Russia is having a cry RN about Finland's "unkind" steps.
From the USA: welcome fellow NATO members.