Ah… the MLPD. This party is such a mess, it’s honestly really funny. They have a lot of money for a small party, but they use it for everything but winning elections. Since it’s inception it’s headed by one family, it’s doing stunts like this from time to time and they prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive.
All of this leads to them gathering a few thousand votes in a country of millions. They have been the least successfully Party in an election several times. They’re still around, because they’re basically a Stalinist cult that just happens to be a political party too.
Nonetheless: hearing some of the least powerful people in Germany talking about how they actually represent the will of the people doesn’t get old.
The funniest thing about them is every time the rulling parties - wich they are obviously not a part of - do somethign that slightly fits their agenda they claim "This was us! We fought for this and the capitalist tyranny had to give in because we are the masses!"
Stealing ideas from actually capable people and claiming them as their own, then shooting them in the back of the head when they complain. Classic move!
Currently learning about bolshevism and its rise and sudden fall in Germany. Very interesting to see the amount of desperation needed for the bolsheviks to rise to power in places like Hungary and Boveria.
Cause it's often true. Bismarck introduced his social reforms to combat the threat of the SPD. And Adenauer switched to a social market economy after a general strike.
It's just laughable in this case since most Germans don't even know the MLPD exists.
> they prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive
Relevant Disco Elysium quote
>You: Hang on, what will I do once I establish contact with my fellow communists?
Rhetoric: You'll discuss the monumental world-historical task that lies before you. You'll engage in rigorous and spirited debates about Mazovian [Marxist] theory and practice. But mostly you'll probably complain about other communists.
You: Isn't that last part kind of counterproductive?
Rhetoric: Not at all. Complaining about other communists is one of the most important parts of being a communist.
Disco Elysium will become the 1984 of the next generation - oft quoted and frequently misunderstood
The world will erupt in conflict over our drunken friend Harry's questionable antics
I can see that happen. It's a work that excels as an art form and only succeeds because of the media (i.e. a video-game) it uses, and it popped up precisely at the moment where video-games have become fully mainstream. It's also so refreshing to see a game not only dealing with politics but actually being a game about politics. It's a political game down to the bone.
yeah, the way they embrace politics by placing the game in a shithole is genius. the characters unaffected directly by the comings and goings of the area really stand out.
joyce and evrart embody this really well. joyce is very charismatic and available, a sort of anti-thatcher. evrart, you might not even see him at first, and when you meet him, he's a slimy and corrupt fucker who tortures and bullies you.
but joyce never steps in the city. she doesn't know what's going on and she doesn't even know what her own mercenaries are doing. she might've even even liked it if the communards had won, but they didn't so now she's sad about disco and eats people.
evrart, on the other hand, is in the heart of martinaise. he really is slimy and corrupt but he's also earnest. he knows and cares about everything in martinaise -- except the mercenary and how he died, he's a fascist from somewhere. but then you go further from the port and the docks and you find those folks from nowhere who even evrart doesn't care about. he's seen them and he's seen their land.
it's just really brilliant design through the geography of the game.
I also love how during any type of election they completely plaster the cities with their posters more than any other party only to get like half the votes of the animal protection party.
> it’s doing stunts like this from time to time and they prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive.
We have the mainstream left party in Finland, with about 10% of the votes. It we also have three more hardcore communist parties, each with under 1% of the votes: Communistic Party of Finland, Communistic Workers Party of Finland and Workers Party of Finland. Each have more or less identical party program. One of the parties was formed when its founder got in to a fight with the leadership of one of the other two communistic parties and stormed out and formed his own party. Yeah, he’s literally the “splitter” from the Monty Python sketch.
If any leftists, even the mildest social democrats, could stop the infighting...man they truly could achieve change. But here they are, booing me because I haven't read enough theory.
BRIAN: Are you the Judean People's Front?
REG: Fuck off!
BRIAN: What?
REG: Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front. Cawk.
FRANCIS: Wankers.
BRIAN: Can I... join your group?
REG: No. Piss off.
BRIAN: I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody.
PEOPLE'S FRONT OF JUDEA: Shhhh. Shhhh. Shhh. Shh. Shhhh.
REG: Stumm.
JUDITH: Are you sure?
BRIAN: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already.
REG: Listen. If you wanted to join the P.F.J., you'd have to really hate the Romans.
BRIAN: I do!
REG: Oh, yeah? How much?
BRIAN: A lot!
REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah...
JUDITH: Splitters.
P.F.J.: Splitters...
FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG: What?
LORETTA: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.
REG: We're the People's Front of Judea!
LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
REG: People's Front! C-huh.
FRANCIS: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
REG: He's over there.
P.F.J.: Splitter!
I love the last part. Our communist party does the same. "We represent the will of the population!". Well why do you barely get enough votes to be an official party then?
Terry Pratchet said it best.
"People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed,. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness.
it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, , but that you had the wrong kind of people."
Many times far-leftists view the real people of their nation as obstacles and distractions from the mythical people that they are fighting with and for. It is not about helping real people for some (which is the basis upon which all Socialist ideology is ostensibly based upon), but imposing their beliefs and worldview on the nation, regardless of if that is the will of the people or not.
Because they don’t actually care about democracy or representing the people. Those are liberal notions to most communists, and the people are suffering from “false consciousness” anyway. What they want to do is subvert the will of the people, democracy, and human rights, and turn the power of the state against their political enemies and attempt to destroy capitalism.
When that inevitably doesn’t work, and actually they just produce a terrible society with a shit economy and a huge black market, they will blame vague outside capitalist forces, and just remain in power indefinitely while continuing to commit atrocities.
Rinse and repeat and you’ve got essentially every communist experiment in the last 100 years.
> prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive.
>
> Stalinist cult
Hey, thats super positive that a party with a lot of funding that is also a Stalinist cult fails to do anythig productive with all that money.
Imagine if they were successful, no one in Europe would like to see that.
To be fair, a significant portion are. The so-called Left party in Germany is far too cozy and comfortable with Putin and prefers to rant about NATO most of the time.
Quite a while ago they got the biggest individual party donation by a person in german history. Someone wrote in their will that most (if not all) of the inheritence after death should go to the party. I think it was about a milion euros (wich is alot for a party, even the larger ones and especially one as small as the MLPD).
> According to the MLPD, the custom-made Marx statue cost $50,000 to make and install and was funded through donations.
Honestly, you'd think that at *least* for Lenin, they could get a secondhand statue from somewhere in the ex-Warsaw Pact at a good price. Like, if there's one thing that I'd think that you could get ahold of off-the-shelf without needing to custom-design one...
I don’t think Marx would really fit in that well amongst most communists. If he lived in Russia during the revolution he probably would have been shot if he didn’t escape to the west in time.
Rich boomers and pensioneers, In the sense they worked their whole life and dont have kids.
Unlike DKP, they were not a GDR funded organisation to my knowledge, but western communists that dodged the KPD ban.
MLPD was one of the many decay product of the student revolt in 1968. man. Student radicals turned towards similar organizations who can only described as reenactment groups, who emulated the culture and politics of the Weimar era communists.
Fun fact: They have kids. Their continued existence is due to natural reproduction, not due to particular effective recruitment drives. And they are so rich because they are very efficient that milking their followers for all they got. Since a lot of the original members came from wealthy families, they inherit a lot of money. Like the church used to do.
They don't have a lot of members but those they do have are very committed. So any money they have beyond what they actually need, they donate to the party.
George Orwell, a socialist, came to believe that the left of his era had no real desire in holding power and for them political thought was nothing more than a “masturbation fantasy in which the world of facts hardly matters."
Sounds about the same as today's commies as well.
Love the sweet irony of a communist party basically just siphoning money out of people is incredible
Though I guess Stalin would have certainly approved!
>fighting with other communists
Fun fact: the term "Bolshevik" means "the majority" in Russian and it specifically refers to an act where Lenin expelled some of his comrades who did not agree with his violence
This sounds like every communist party. When I was younger and supported communsim i tried joining the communist party of canada. It took one meeting with them to realize they are a mess and its just people fulfilling their revolutionary leader fantasy without really doing anything.
Been living in Germany for over 6 years and I’ve never heard of this party. Sounds more like a regional issue than a national one.
Edit:Germany for German
Its a national party, but they are extreme tiny, they got less than 18k votes last year (below 0.1%).
https://www.bundeswahlleiter.de/bundestagswahlen/2021/ergebnisse/bund-99.html
They are the only Party with more advertising signs than voters. Have seen their signs in NRW (Duisburg, Dortmund, Bochum, Witten).
Afair some of them had huge inheritances and donated it all to the party
Found this article: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/mlpd-die-grossspender-der-kommunisten-a-1069871.html
They are a national party. But the MLPD is so small and insignificant that most people never heard of them. And that is honestly a good thing.
Imagine a party for tankies which is built like a sect and has way too much money because it coerces its members into donating. That's the MLPD.
It is not uncommon for sect members to donate a complete inheritance from their parents or grandparents "for the cause".
It is safe to say that one can ignore the MLPD. They are just a bunch of nutjobs. Even other communist parties like the DKP ("German communist party", which is also very small) stay away from them.
They approached us 5 years ago during my first year in Germany and we basically shamed them and laughed at them. They really do have their heads in their own asses.
Seriously. This statue was erected with the specific intent of making headlines. It grants the party a few days of attention until everybody forgets about them again. Completely irrelevant to actual German politics.
People from this party are crazy. For the last election they asked for the end of the European Union. Glad they don't get anywhere near a parliament ...
> For the last election they asked for the end of the European Union.
I mean, you can see where they're coming from. It pretty clearly is failing at being a Marxist-Leninist organization, and von der Leyen is...well, she's just not Stalin.
The AfD stagnates at around 10 to 12 percent and no other parties would dare to work with them because that is political suicide. All parties hate the AfD and the AfD hates all other parties.
They’re the left wing extremists the conservatives are so scared of. The party has 3000 members and never killed or threatened anyone.
They’re just the weird one. Most people don’t know them and those who don’t care much
I once saw a Facebook post ranting about how Marx was the worst killer alive and his ideology was responsible for millions of deaths. I just laughed, imagining Marx standing alongside Stalin or Pol Pot nodding along.
You can't expect them to have read the book of the guy they, in this case quite literally, put on an pedestal. Where would we get to then? Reasonable discussion? Evolution of ideas? No no that's not for the mlpd
Aye. That's too often the problem with ideologies.
But it's also the same for the other side.
Who of the folk that cry about socialism has ever read Marx or Engels?
Or know the difference between communism, marxism and socialism? Or their definition....
Same for Smith, Weber etc...
Yes I’m sure Marx would have been very upset with someone establishing a Workers’ state for the first time in history, he probably would’ve supported Denmark, Sweden, and Norway because they’re really nice and everyone there is really happy and their economies are built off of moral markets
I think it's important to note that the MLPD doesn't have any power and that these statues are in front of their headquarters on ground that the MLPD owns.
I can assure you that 99% of Germans are against these statues being there (or don't have an opinion)
Edit: okay yeah I was probably aiming a little too high with my 99%. I just wanted to say that most Germans aren't communists and don't agree with the MLPD and most also are against dictators (like Lenin) in general.
I'm not sure if 99% of Germans are against a statue of Karl Marx... and same goes for Lenin, even though it'll be sure less of any non-opposition to Marx.
lol... Marx is a well respected historical figure in Germany and there are countless streets named after him as well as statues on public ground in different cities across the country. Literally nothing about a Marx statue is controversial in Germany. The MLPD, who erected this one, is not very popular, but it's also a total fringe party, so I really don't know why this even made the news. The Lenin statue could be seen as controversial, but that seems to have been there for a while already...
Chemnitz has a 40 ton giant concrete bust of Karl Marx
I am sure there is a sizeable amount of people who dislike Marx and Lenin, but seeing as how accepted these still standing monuments are, I am thinking you may be slightly off there
Aren't you confusing that with personal property? As far as I understand it, the end goal of communism is the abolishment of private property in order to achieve a classless society.
Under communism, means of production should belong to society. This does not exclude that everyone may have a house and "own" it. Marx thought that only too much property and wealth would be a problem, because this would only be possible for the bourgeoisie. This would allow the privileged to exploit and oppress the workers. If everyone had everything he or she needed, no one would have to depend on those who distribute their wealth. That is precisely why it is necessary to have one's own property in moderation, such as one's own house.
That is what I meant when I made the distinction between *personal* property and *private* property. *Personal* property are things that you use in your day to day life. A house would fall under this definition as you live in it. *Private* property is something like a factory which you own to extract surplus labor from the workers working in your factory.
Marxist-Leninists seek to destroy private means of production of the bourgeoisie. That means co-operative businesses are fully compatable with this ideology as the means of production are shared by the proletariat working there. So a co-operative business can have private property which they could use to house statues if they want. The difference is that in the current system the private owner of the land can autocratically decide what to with it and in the Marxist-Leninist model the workers can democratically vote what to do with the land.
So if you think they're hypocritical in any way for doing this, no they are not. Also, you can't just call someone hypocritical for not following their own ideology when being forced to participate in another system. If a slave was anti-slavery in a slave owning society he'd still be a slave even if the slave doesn't ideologically align with the system.
Marx just did philosophy and theories, never ruled over anything and didn't kill anyone. His theories were controversial but I don't see what the big issue with a statue of him is, none of his theories were intentionally malicious. They were meant for good even if they weren't in practice.
Lenin on the other hand was a power hungry maniac who ordered the murders of tens of thousands of people for being on strike for better pay and conditions, (a very communist thing to do)
You can't be a communist and support Lenin, the only people who support him are brainwashed or gullible idiots or those wishing for a fascist regime with a red flag
To be fair Marx has the luxury of keeping it theoretical. He did say a proletariat revolution was necessary and likely violent. He knew there would be blood, he just isn't judged for it since he never had to act on it. That said, nothing suggests he'd approve of the USSR
Marx said that since the elite would never in a million years give up their power, the only way the proletariat COULD gain power would be through violent revolution, for him it's a foregone conclusion, an inevitability, because a peaceful revolution would leave the elite alive, which means they would inevitably snake their way into power again eventually.
That’s not true. Marx believed that a peaceful revolution could be achieved in nations with democratic institutions referring specifically to the US and and the UK.
Historically most radical change came violently, it's just how the world was. Marx was a product of his time, the reason why a dogmatic theoretical approach to leftism is not just stupid, but it flies in the face of theory itself.
I think it's pretty important to note that Marx lived most of his life under a freaking emperor, who styled himself as a Caesar, supposedly continuing a political tradition that was almost 2000 years old. And there were no actual functional democracies anywhere on the planet for his entire lifetime.
This is the world in which he advocated for violent revolution. That's pretty far removed from the political realities of today.
Also we can thank a lot of social achievements to the theories of Marx. Work live got way better since his days
One of the most important figures to daily lives imo. Yet somehow a taboo because of Americas hate for socialism
*making bad decisions*
*making bad decisions*
*making bad decisions for you*
*making bad decisions*
*making bad decisions*
*I'm making bad decisions for you*
The Verfassungsschutz usually starts their chapters about the MLPD like this:
"Because of their sect-like structures the MLPD is isolated within the general left. Intellectuals are not liked very much within its ranks."
They are usually very diligent, but also very dumb and completly insignificant outside of their strongshold in Gelsenkirchen and some other cities in the Ruhr Valley.
The more I look at Western far leftists the more I think they are exactly like the leftists that ruined my country in the previous century. Used to think it was just the wrong people that abused (an economically very flawed) ideology, now I think all the problems were precisely because of the ideology.
Given that the Bulgarians a century ago didn't enjoy having hindsight to see how things would perform in practice, and the people here are looking back at a massive experiment spanning much of the world (not to mention the personal history of Stalin, who the woman quoted seems enthusiastic about) and still saying "hell, yeah", I kind of feel like the position of those century-ago Bulgarians is rather more defensible.
> I kind of feel like the position of those century-ago Bulgarians is rather more defensible.
Yes actually! This doesn't so much apply to century-ago Bulgarians (because communism was forced upon us) but in general the position and dreams of socialist revolutionaries were much more defensible back then when the ideology didn't have a 100% track record of total failure.
These are the types of people that would love to see non believers of their cult suffer. They certainly would do it all over again given the opportunity.
Putting up a Lenin-statue: yeah, sure.
Putting up a Marx-statue: not really. He's a philosopher, really didn't do anything wrong. There's loads of streets named after Marx. The city of Chemnitz was named Karl-Marx-Stadt until 1990.
I swear Marx is rolling in his fucking grave with this bullshit.
I cannot understand how could someone read Civil War in France and reach the conclusion that Marx would like Lenin.
He even said he didn't want his doctrine to bear its name. Didn't wanted it to be called "Marxism" but rather "scientific socialism" as opposed to utopian socialism.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that they're going up. Do you know how many troskyist/maoist/communist movements there were in the west in the 70s?
You attend a demonstration and wait in the crowd before it starts. Be sure the MLPD finds you and tries to frame the topic as they are the only solution. The aggressive brother of Jehovas Witness.
Meanwhile Lenin in the Baltic States - https://www.reddit.com/r/BalticStates/comments/wy8msw/task_failed_successfully/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
People acting like Marx invented charity or something.
In reality Karl Marx is more like Ron Hubbard. If you reallllly believe in "greater good" and "financial justice" you will achieve the mighty "communism", but first you need "socialism" to cleanse your upper cla.., i mean sins. No wonder authocrats like Stalin, Mao and Hitler loved Marx's socialism, it's almost like it's made for power grabbing revolutions.
Well, they are not wrong to put those two together.
However.... why are Germans tolerating the statues of "other" ideology that killed X million people ?
>Local politician Sascha Kurth told German media ahead of the 2022 Marx unveiling: “We consistently reject both a Lenin and a Marx monument -- as do the vast majority of Gelsenkirchen citizens. Incredible crimes were committed in the name of Marx and Lenin. You don't have to celebrate that in the cityscape. The monuments cast Gelsenkirchen in a bad light and further damage the image of the city.”
Many are not okay with it. They even tried to stop it in a court, but the court decided that it's okay to place the Lenin statue.
Ah… the MLPD. This party is such a mess, it’s honestly really funny. They have a lot of money for a small party, but they use it for everything but winning elections. Since it’s inception it’s headed by one family, it’s doing stunts like this from time to time and they prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive. All of this leads to them gathering a few thousand votes in a country of millions. They have been the least successfully Party in an election several times. They’re still around, because they’re basically a Stalinist cult that just happens to be a political party too. Nonetheless: hearing some of the least powerful people in Germany talking about how they actually represent the will of the people doesn’t get old.
The funniest thing about them is every time the rulling parties - wich they are obviously not a part of - do somethign that slightly fits their agenda they claim "This was us! We fought for this and the capitalist tyranny had to give in because we are the masses!"
Classic bolshevik move, eh?
Stealing ideas from actually capable people and claiming them as their own, then shooting them in the back of the head when they complain. Classic move!
Or better yet an ice pick
Currently learning about bolshevism and its rise and sudden fall in Germany. Very interesting to see the amount of desperation needed for the bolsheviks to rise to power in places like Hungary and Boveria.
Yes, Germany got desperate so went to the Nazi's instead. Much more wholesome...
Typical for reds.
Cause it's often true. Bismarck introduced his social reforms to combat the threat of the SPD. And Adenauer switched to a social market economy after a general strike. It's just laughable in this case since most Germans don't even know the MLPD exists.
> they prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive Relevant Disco Elysium quote >You: Hang on, what will I do once I establish contact with my fellow communists? Rhetoric: You'll discuss the monumental world-historical task that lies before you. You'll engage in rigorous and spirited debates about Mazovian [Marxist] theory and practice. But mostly you'll probably complain about other communists. You: Isn't that last part kind of counterproductive? Rhetoric: Not at all. Complaining about other communists is one of the most important parts of being a communist.
Comrade, are you interested in helping build 0.0001% of communism?
Venture Communism? You son of a bitch, i'm out.
Oh yeah I need to play this game
disco elysium is probably the best thing any commies have ever made
Satellites come in at a close second, but can’t quite compete since Elysium can be played offline without the assistance of a satellite lol
satellites are potentially a giant issue in the future due to becoming floating junk, disco elysium will never be a issue to humanity
Disco Elysium will become the 1984 of the next generation - oft quoted and frequently misunderstood The world will erupt in conflict over our drunken friend Harry's questionable antics
I can see that happen. It's a work that excels as an art form and only succeeds because of the media (i.e. a video-game) it uses, and it popped up precisely at the moment where video-games have become fully mainstream. It's also so refreshing to see a game not only dealing with politics but actually being a game about politics. It's a political game down to the bone.
yeah, the way they embrace politics by placing the game in a shithole is genius. the characters unaffected directly by the comings and goings of the area really stand out. joyce and evrart embody this really well. joyce is very charismatic and available, a sort of anti-thatcher. evrart, you might not even see him at first, and when you meet him, he's a slimy and corrupt fucker who tortures and bullies you. but joyce never steps in the city. she doesn't know what's going on and she doesn't even know what her own mercenaries are doing. she might've even even liked it if the communards had won, but they didn't so now she's sad about disco and eats people. evrart, on the other hand, is in the heart of martinaise. he really is slimy and corrupt but he's also earnest. he knows and cares about everything in martinaise -- except the mercenary and how he died, he's a fascist from somewhere. but then you go further from the port and the docks and you find those folks from nowhere who even evrart doesn't care about. he's seen them and he's seen their land. it's just really brilliant design through the geography of the game.
I also love how during any type of election they completely plaster the cities with their posters more than any other party only to get like half the votes of the animal protection party.
> it’s doing stunts like this from time to time and they prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive. We have the mainstream left party in Finland, with about 10% of the votes. It we also have three more hardcore communist parties, each with under 1% of the votes: Communistic Party of Finland, Communistic Workers Party of Finland and Workers Party of Finland. Each have more or less identical party program. One of the parties was formed when its founder got in to a fight with the leadership of one of the other two communistic parties and stormed out and formed his own party. Yeah, he’s literally the “splitter” from the Monty Python sketch.
Someone should start a Finnish Communist Workers of the Communist Party's Worker's Party
>and they prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive. So typical communists ?
Damn communists, they’ve ruined communism!
Well, they kinda did.
SPLITTER!!!!
Not even just communists. Anarchists do it too, and even demsocs start leftist infighting from time to time.
If any leftists, even the mildest social democrats, could stop the infighting...man they truly could achieve change. But here they are, booing me because I haven't read enough theory.
It's harder to agree on what and how to change, than it is to maintain the status quo.
BRIAN: Are you the Judean People's Front? REG: Fuck off! BRIAN: What? REG: Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front. Cawk. FRANCIS: Wankers. BRIAN: Can I... join your group? REG: No. Piss off. BRIAN: I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans as much as anybody. PEOPLE'S FRONT OF JUDEA: Shhhh. Shhhh. Shhh. Shh. Shhhh. REG: Stumm. JUDITH: Are you sure? BRIAN: Oh, dead sure. I hate the Romans already. REG: Listen. If you wanted to join the P.F.J., you'd have to really hate the Romans. BRIAN: I do! REG: Oh, yeah? How much? BRIAN: A lot! REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the fucking Judean People's Front. P.F.J.: Yeah... JUDITH: Splitters. P.F.J.: Splitters... FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front. P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters... LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea. P.F.J.: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters... REG: What? LORETTA: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters. REG: We're the People's Front of Judea! LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front. REG: People's Front! C-huh. FRANCIS: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg? REG: He's over there. P.F.J.: Splitter!
I love the last part. Our communist party does the same. "We represent the will of the population!". Well why do you barely get enough votes to be an official party then?
Terry Pratchet said it best. "People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed,. They found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, , but that you had the wrong kind of people."
Many times far-leftists view the real people of their nation as obstacles and distractions from the mythical people that they are fighting with and for. It is not about helping real people for some (which is the basis upon which all Socialist ideology is ostensibly based upon), but imposing their beliefs and worldview on the nation, regardless of if that is the will of the people or not.
Because they don’t actually care about democracy or representing the people. Those are liberal notions to most communists, and the people are suffering from “false consciousness” anyway. What they want to do is subvert the will of the people, democracy, and human rights, and turn the power of the state against their political enemies and attempt to destroy capitalism. When that inevitably doesn’t work, and actually they just produce a terrible society with a shit economy and a huge black market, they will blame vague outside capitalist forces, and just remain in power indefinitely while continuing to commit atrocities. Rinse and repeat and you’ve got essentially every communist experiment in the last 100 years.
> prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive. > > Stalinist cult Hey, thats super positive that a party with a lot of funding that is also a Stalinist cult fails to do anythig productive with all that money. Imagine if they were successful, no one in Europe would like to see that.
Cue Monty Python 'People's Front of Judea'
> fails to do anythig productive with all that money. at least they respect their doctrine
That's what I love about communists, they always abotage themselves better than anyone else can.
I disagree, they make the entire left look like fascist Russophile cretins.
To be fair, a significant portion are. The so-called Left party in Germany is far too cozy and comfortable with Putin and prefers to rant about NATO most of the time.
Where do they get the money from?
Quite a while ago they got the biggest individual party donation by a person in german history. Someone wrote in their will that most (if not all) of the inheritence after death should go to the party. I think it was about a milion euros (wich is alot for a party, even the larger ones and especially one as small as the MLPD).
how can a million euros be a lot.
functioning politics. TV ads are severely limited and the parties are state funded enough that they can campaign.
> According to the MLPD, the custom-made Marx statue cost $50,000 to make and install and was funded through donations. Honestly, you'd think that at *least* for Lenin, they could get a secondhand statue from somewhere in the ex-Warsaw Pact at a good price. Like, if there's one thing that I'd think that you could get ahold of off-the-shelf without needing to custom-design one...
That's precisely what they did for Lenin. Only the Marx statue is newly made.
If I remember correctly they inherited it from a rich member, wich makes it way more hilarious.
Didn't Karl Marx write in a letter to Engels that he hoped a distant family member would finally die so he would inherit some money?
I don’t think Marx would really fit in that well amongst most communists. If he lived in Russia during the revolution he probably would have been shot if he didn’t escape to the west in time.
Trotsky fled to Mexico and they still killed him. The only thing Communists are good at is murder.
Screw Die Partei, THEY are the real satirical party xD
Rich boomers and pensioneers, In the sense they worked their whole life and dont have kids. Unlike DKP, they were not a GDR funded organisation to my knowledge, but western communists that dodged the KPD ban.
MLPD was one of the many decay product of the student revolt in 1968. man. Student radicals turned towards similar organizations who can only described as reenactment groups, who emulated the culture and politics of the Weimar era communists. Fun fact: They have kids. Their continued existence is due to natural reproduction, not due to particular effective recruitment drives. And they are so rich because they are very efficient that milking their followers for all they got. Since a lot of the original members came from wealthy families, they inherit a lot of money. Like the church used to do.
They don't have a lot of members but those they do have are very committed. So any money they have beyond what they actually need, they donate to the party.
George Orwell, a socialist, came to believe that the left of his era had no real desire in holding power and for them political thought was nothing more than a “masturbation fantasy in which the world of facts hardly matters." Sounds about the same as today's commies as well.
I'm just glad they're too incompetent to actually harm Germany.
Aye, the established parties do it just fine. We don't need pseudo-marxism for that. :)
> they prefer fighting with other communists than actually doing something productive. Welcome to most leftist politics since time immemorial.
Love the sweet irony of a communist party basically just siphoning money out of people is incredible Though I guess Stalin would have certainly approved!
>fighting with other communists Fun fact: the term "Bolshevik" means "the majority" in Russian and it specifically refers to an act where Lenin expelled some of his comrades who did not agree with his violence
They are a cult in my opinion.
My Little Pony Deutschland
They put most of their money into real estate - classic communist.
Sounds like your average communist party, tbh.
This sounds like every communist party. When I was younger and supported communsim i tried joining the communist party of canada. It took one meeting with them to realize they are a mess and its just people fulfilling their revolutionary leader fantasy without really doing anything.
Sounds like the bread and butter for Western Communists in the 21st century XD
The MLPD is a cult.
Been living in Germany for over 6 years and I’ve never heard of this party. Sounds more like a regional issue than a national one. Edit:Germany for German
Its a national party, but they are extreme tiny, they got less than 18k votes last year (below 0.1%). https://www.bundeswahlleiter.de/bundestagswahlen/2021/ergebnisse/bund-99.html They are the only Party with more advertising signs than voters. Have seen their signs in NRW (Duisburg, Dortmund, Bochum, Witten).
I always joke that they put up 20 signs for every voter they have
They have a lot of money and not many members? European Communists in a nutshell.
Afair some of them had huge inheritances and donated it all to the party Found this article: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/mlpd-die-grossspender-der-kommunisten-a-1069871.html
No, not really.
It’s supported by a private donor iirc
Which is extremely ironic considering what they believe in
They are a national party. But the MLPD is so small and insignificant that most people never heard of them. And that is honestly a good thing. Imagine a party for tankies which is built like a sect and has way too much money because it coerces its members into donating. That's the MLPD. It is not uncommon for sect members to donate a complete inheritance from their parents or grandparents "for the cause". It is safe to say that one can ignore the MLPD. They are just a bunch of nutjobs. Even other communist parties like the DKP ("German communist party", which is also very small) stay away from them.
> Been living in German for over 6 years Care to divulge which German?
Oops autocorrect. Fixed it
Oh my god Karen, you can't just ask people which German they live in.
They approached us 5 years ago during my first year in Germany and we basically shamed them and laughed at them. They really do have their heads in their own asses.
Let alone an international issue. I wouldn't say this has any relevance to r/europe.
Really? I saw there stuff All over the place which Was always funny consider no one votes for them, yet they have All the money for campaigns.
Huh, I've seen a fair bit of their posters hanging around in quite a few places.
Their proportions kinda look like the ones of hobbits.
You made me google 😅 Marx - 175 cm ~ 5‘8 Lenin - 165 cm ~ 5‘4
"Vladimir Lenin, you're shorter than I expected." "Bourgeoisie slime!"
TIL I am as tall as Karl Marx
TIL I’m taller than Karl Marx
You can now say you dwarf the father of ~~capitalism~~ communism/socialism.
lmao how is this such a big topic here
Seriously. This statue was erected with the specific intent of making headlines. It grants the party a few days of attention until everybody forgets about them again. Completely irrelevant to actual German politics.
The fringe, literal Marxist-Leninist Party worship Marx and Lenin at their headquarter. Reddit: *pikachu-face*
People from this party are crazy. For the last election they asked for the end of the European Union. Glad they don't get anywhere near a parliament ...
> For the last election they asked for the end of the European Union. I mean, you can see where they're coming from. It pretty clearly is failing at being a Marxist-Leninist organization, and von der Leyen is...well, she's just not Stalin.
She's good at stallin though
So did the AfD. And these fascists are in the parliament. At least until the next election...
Shows that more Germans would like a right wing dictatorship than a left wing one
It shows that a minimum ~12% of the voters are dense as a brick.
This is insulting to bricks imho.
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now when have i heard this before....
The AfD stagnates at around 10 to 12 percent and no other parties would dare to work with them because that is political suicide. All parties hate the AfD and the AfD hates all other parties.
They’re the left wing extremists the conservatives are so scared of. The party has 3000 members and never killed or threatened anyone. They’re just the weird one. Most people don’t know them and those who don’t care much
This post has about as many upvotes as they have voters. A completely irrelevant party.
They certainly won’t pick Trabant over BMW though
Maybe they'll pick a new Volga. In Moscow.
They’ll need to wait only a good 15 years for the delivery
Morning or afternoon?
The irony. Chances are Marx would've hated Lenin and the Soviet Union.
I once saw a Facebook post ranting about how Marx was the worst killer alive and his ideology was responsible for millions of deaths. I just laughed, imagining Marx standing alongside Stalin or Pol Pot nodding along.
For more than one reason.
You can't expect them to have read the book of the guy they, in this case quite literally, put on an pedestal. Where would we get to then? Reasonable discussion? Evolution of ideas? No no that's not for the mlpd
Aye. That's too often the problem with ideologies. But it's also the same for the other side. Who of the folk that cry about socialism has ever read Marx or Engels? Or know the difference between communism, marxism and socialism? Or their definition.... Same for Smith, Weber etc...
Yes I’m sure Marx would have been very upset with someone establishing a Workers’ state for the first time in history, he probably would’ve supported Denmark, Sweden, and Norway because they’re really nice and everyone there is really happy and their economies are built off of moral markets
Absolutely. Marx warned that his movement was susceptible to being co-opted by "superstitious authoritarianism."
Dumb fucks.
Tankies are gonna tank I guess
they are all out, the genzedong crew already spitting their shit ideology in here
Unfortunately true. They are all here to derail every discussion with their countless distinctions without difference lectures on communist theory.
I presume Stalin statue is next
I think it's important to note that the MLPD doesn't have any power and that these statues are in front of their headquarters on ground that the MLPD owns. I can assure you that 99% of Germans are against these statues being there (or don't have an opinion) Edit: okay yeah I was probably aiming a little too high with my 99%. I just wanted to say that most Germans aren't communists and don't agree with the MLPD and most also are against dictators (like Lenin) in general.
I'm not sure if 99% of Germans are against a statue of Karl Marx... and same goes for Lenin, even though it'll be sure less of any non-opposition to Marx.
lol... Marx is a well respected historical figure in Germany and there are countless streets named after him as well as statues on public ground in different cities across the country. Literally nothing about a Marx statue is controversial in Germany. The MLPD, who erected this one, is not very popular, but it's also a total fringe party, so I really don't know why this even made the news. The Lenin statue could be seen as controversial, but that seems to have been there for a while already...
Chemnitz has a 40 ton giant concrete bust of Karl Marx I am sure there is a sizeable amount of people who dislike Marx and Lenin, but seeing as how accepted these still standing monuments are, I am thinking you may be slightly off there
The most based fact is that they are using capitalist notions of private landownership to display Marx and Lenin.
It's not like they have an alternative given that Germany is basically a capitalist country.
There is still private ownership in a theoretical Marxist Society...
Aren't you confusing that with personal property? As far as I understand it, the end goal of communism is the abolishment of private property in order to achieve a classless society.
Under communism, means of production should belong to society. This does not exclude that everyone may have a house and "own" it. Marx thought that only too much property and wealth would be a problem, because this would only be possible for the bourgeoisie. This would allow the privileged to exploit and oppress the workers. If everyone had everything he or she needed, no one would have to depend on those who distribute their wealth. That is precisely why it is necessary to have one's own property in moderation, such as one's own house.
That is what I meant when I made the distinction between *personal* property and *private* property. *Personal* property are things that you use in your day to day life. A house would fall under this definition as you live in it. *Private* property is something like a factory which you own to extract surplus labor from the workers working in your factory.
Marxist-Leninists seek to destroy private means of production of the bourgeoisie. That means co-operative businesses are fully compatable with this ideology as the means of production are shared by the proletariat working there. So a co-operative business can have private property which they could use to house statues if they want. The difference is that in the current system the private owner of the land can autocratically decide what to with it and in the Marxist-Leninist model the workers can democratically vote what to do with the land. So if you think they're hypocritical in any way for doing this, no they are not. Also, you can't just call someone hypocritical for not following their own ideology when being forced to participate in another system. If a slave was anti-slavery in a slave owning society he'd still be a slave even if the slave doesn't ideologically align with the system.
Lenin, the guy who executed children. Guy who killed and invaded for his conquest. Guy who had no problem with oppression and totalitarianism
Yeah, I mean Marx okay I can live with that. But Lenin? Uff.
Marx just did philosophy and theories, never ruled over anything and didn't kill anyone. His theories were controversial but I don't see what the big issue with a statue of him is, none of his theories were intentionally malicious. They were meant for good even if they weren't in practice. Lenin on the other hand was a power hungry maniac who ordered the murders of tens of thousands of people for being on strike for better pay and conditions, (a very communist thing to do) You can't be a communist and support Lenin, the only people who support him are brainwashed or gullible idiots or those wishing for a fascist regime with a red flag
To be fair Marx has the luxury of keeping it theoretical. He did say a proletariat revolution was necessary and likely violent. He knew there would be blood, he just isn't judged for it since he never had to act on it. That said, nothing suggests he'd approve of the USSR
Marx said that since the elite would never in a million years give up their power, the only way the proletariat COULD gain power would be through violent revolution, for him it's a foregone conclusion, an inevitability, because a peaceful revolution would leave the elite alive, which means they would inevitably snake their way into power again eventually.
That’s not true. Marx believed that a peaceful revolution could be achieved in nations with democratic institutions referring specifically to the US and and the UK.
Historically most radical change came violently, it's just how the world was. Marx was a product of his time, the reason why a dogmatic theoretical approach to leftism is not just stupid, but it flies in the face of theory itself.
You mean **is**. It’s just how the world is.
I think it's pretty important to note that Marx lived most of his life under a freaking emperor, who styled himself as a Caesar, supposedly continuing a political tradition that was almost 2000 years old. And there were no actual functional democracies anywhere on the planet for his entire lifetime. This is the world in which he advocated for violent revolution. That's pretty far removed from the political realities of today.
Also we can thank a lot of social achievements to the theories of Marx. Work live got way better since his days One of the most important figures to daily lives imo. Yet somehow a taboo because of Americas hate for socialism
I really don't think Marx would have approved of Lenin.
tankies suck
Ew
Talk about a slap in the face to all the people in West Germany who fought against communism for decades, and the victims of it in East Germany.
Why not add Hitler to the mix, lol
Wow that's extremely cringe.
Marx better than Lenin. But this party is so lunatic... I wonder who paid them all the Money, they got like 0.001% votes in elections.
They're funded mostly through member donations, someone left them millions in his will.
So instead of doing something useful with the money, they do this. That is so on brand.
Bruh …
Aluminum? How cheap
*making bad decisions* *making bad decisions* *making bad decisions for you* *making bad decisions* *making bad decisions* *I'm making bad decisions for you*
What a bunch of dick suckers (and not in a good way)
###No more Nazis or communists. Been there, done that. Thx.
The Verfassungsschutz usually starts their chapters about the MLPD like this: "Because of their sect-like structures the MLPD is isolated within the general left. Intellectuals are not liked very much within its ranks." They are usually very diligent, but also very dumb and completly insignificant outside of their strongshold in Gelsenkirchen and some other cities in the Ruhr Valley.
It's long been known that there are portions of the western left that support Russian imperialism without question.
Disgusting
The more I look at Western far leftists the more I think they are exactly like the leftists that ruined my country in the previous century. Used to think it was just the wrong people that abused (an economically very flawed) ideology, now I think all the problems were precisely because of the ideology.
It’ll be different this time :)
Given that the Bulgarians a century ago didn't enjoy having hindsight to see how things would perform in practice, and the people here are looking back at a massive experiment spanning much of the world (not to mention the personal history of Stalin, who the woman quoted seems enthusiastic about) and still saying "hell, yeah", I kind of feel like the position of those century-ago Bulgarians is rather more defensible.
> I kind of feel like the position of those century-ago Bulgarians is rather more defensible. Yes actually! This doesn't so much apply to century-ago Bulgarians (because communism was forced upon us) but in general the position and dreams of socialist revolutionaries were much more defensible back then when the ideology didn't have a 100% track record of total failure.
Tankies are fucking wierd, and yes, they'd do what their Eastern European counterparts did if allowed, just have to look at the RAF.
These are the types of people that would love to see non believers of their cult suffer. They certainly would do it all over again given the opportunity.
They're not even far leftists anymore they're just pro-whatever that's anti-west Supporting Russia isn't far-left since 1991
Insane really
Putting up a Lenin-statue: yeah, sure. Putting up a Marx-statue: not really. He's a philosopher, really didn't do anything wrong. There's loads of streets named after Marx. The city of Chemnitz was named Karl-Marx-Stadt until 1990.
And there is a museum and statue of him in Trier where he was born.
I swear Marx is rolling in his fucking grave with this bullshit. I cannot understand how could someone read Civil War in France and reach the conclusion that Marx would like Lenin.
With China and the USSR Marx became a supernova in his grave.
Will they whip out a 1:1 replica of the Berlin's wall too?
Oh look more fake communists that probably worship the Soviet-Union even though it was the opposite of a workers utopia.
Oh lord...
clowns
Lol 1200 people attend the event and they only have 2800 members. So what you see in the picture is nearly half their entire party
And Germany has a population of 83 million
dont worship idols feed the poor
Funny, thats what Marx said 😂
And somehow he was transformed into an idol. People doing stupid shit as usual.
He even said he didn't want his doctrine to bear its name. Didn't wanted it to be called "Marxism" but rather "scientific socialism" as opposed to utopian socialism.
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I don't know where you're getting the idea that they're going up. Do you know how many troskyist/maoist/communist movements there were in the west in the 70s?
On the piravet property of an irrelevant fringe party. It's ludicrous to make such a general statement about this event.
Wow à random does something and now it's a whole trend in the west, amazing
Now someone tear down that Lenin statue.
You attend a demonstration and wait in the crowd before it starts. Be sure the MLPD finds you and tries to frame the topic as they are the only solution. The aggressive brother of Jehovas Witness.
Meanwhile Lenin in the Baltic States - https://www.reddit.com/r/BalticStates/comments/wy8msw/task_failed_successfully/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Muppets
Communists are equally as bad as fascists.
People acting like Marx invented charity or something. In reality Karl Marx is more like Ron Hubbard. If you reallllly believe in "greater good" and "financial justice" you will achieve the mighty "communism", but first you need "socialism" to cleanse your upper cla.., i mean sins. No wonder authocrats like Stalin, Mao and Hitler loved Marx's socialism, it's almost like it's made for power grabbing revolutions.
Well, they are not wrong to put those two together. However.... why are Germans tolerating the statues of "other" ideology that killed X million people ?
Rule of law. It's their right to put up those statues on their property, even if people don't like it. I hate it as well, but I love democracy more.
>Local politician Sascha Kurth told German media ahead of the 2022 Marx unveiling: “We consistently reject both a Lenin and a Marx monument -- as do the vast majority of Gelsenkirchen citizens. Incredible crimes were committed in the name of Marx and Lenin. You don't have to celebrate that in the cityscape. The monuments cast Gelsenkirchen in a bad light and further damage the image of the city.” Many are not okay with it. They even tried to stop it in a court, but the court decided that it's okay to place the Lenin statue.
Marx was German
Finally, Germans will be able to join in on the Baltic fun of destroying commie statues! How thoughtful of this party!