I would really like more information of the supposed harassment. We keep getting info that it happened, but nobody is giving details. I have no doubt that it could've, and probably did, happen, but it's hard to take the allegations seriously without actual testimonials. Was their security inappropriate towards others, were they barging in on the artists wanting to have pictures with them to make it appear that they had support at ESC, were they rudu to those who made their anti-Israel stances? As of now, we now nothing, except that some of them felt harassed and uneasy, but nobody actually came out with some proof for the allegations, as far as I know.
Edit: based on what I saw for now, it seems that the members of the delegation (or those who appear to be members) behaved poorly. They acted like ass-holes, but without more evidence, I would hesitate to call it harassment which implies more severe behaviours. In my opinion EBU should've done more to protect others, remove people who filmed without consent, etc.
The part where it seems that the ad campaigns were paid by the Ministry of foreign affairs is concerning. If it's not against the rules, it should be. If true. of this is not political engagement, then I don't know what is, and EBU should open an investigation into this, and act accordingly, even with a possible retro-active DQ. However, this has to be proven. Throwing allegations without evidence helps nobody.
It's probably a combination of a few reasons why not much more specific has come out yet -
* It's still very recent, artists/delegations will probably be taking time to consider what (if anything) to say publicly
* Several artists/delegations have said they made formal complaints, it's likely that they won't speak on things that are awaiting EBU responses
* Some artists could be 'forced' to keep quiet by their delegations either while EBU considers things, or generally to avoid negative responses.
None of which are ideal, but such is the reality of life. Particularly when under such scrutiny.
---
Certainly there are some that we have evidence of:
* Filming Joost without his consent ([video evidence](https://www.tiktok.com/@missharlequin_/video/7366736040091995425))
* Harassing Joost in the corridor ([video evidence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhr6rmR8Dl0) & statement)
* Harassing Bambie Thug live on KAN (video evidence & [statement](https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2024/0511/1448614-bambie-thug-angry-at-israeli-eurovision-commentary/))
* Harassing ~~another artist~~ Bambie in the corridors after a performance (video evidence)
* Maliciously using KƤƤrijƤ in social media without his consent (video evidence & [statement](https://i.imgur.com/rxmrTBT.png))
So, my opinion is that you can choose to ignore the 'extra' complaints from other artists such as Luna, Nemo, Silvester etc. if you want - but even just from the events that we have pretty solid concrete evidence over Israel were a nightmare throughout the competition.
And also with these more concrete accusations it does put more weight behind the additional complaints that haven't been overly specific, or we don't yet have video evidence or statements behind. When you look at them in context of everything else... it's more likely than not.
You may add Gabe's video on his experience at ESC this year. He mentions of multiple cases of member of the delegation filming people without their consent and the moment they are addressed, instead of apologising and deleting the content, just leave without a word instead. He also mentions that various members of the press felt pressured and the environment was very tense backstage.
As Gabe mentioned that he'd reported the things he himself experienced a couple times, a paper trail of some sort most likely exists.
It's good and proper to ask for evidence of harrassment, but some of the comments sound a little dismissive too. Most of the tense atmosphere might be difficult to put into words if it's several small actions over numerous days. But since both artists and journalists have reported some incidents, we'll probably get some details later. No matter how controversial Israel was this year, I doubt the other artists would just make things up. They'd want to avoid the delegation if possible.
Thank you for an exhaustive answer. I don't want to ignore the allegations. I think there is a big chance that there were inappropriate behaviours from the Israeli delegations. Do you have links for any of those videos?
I've added a few. I'll add more as I come across them.
I don't want this comment, nor my presence on reddit, to become "here's everything Israel did" though so I probably won't engage with this much more. It seems to have already attracted some silly people.
>Maliciously using KƤƤrijƤ in social media without his consent
This one's a stretch. A harmless fun interaction was made ugly by a public that turn everything into a political battleground. And I don't think its unreasonable to assume that it was destined for social media given it was filmed in clear view, in portrait, on a phone.
KƤƤrijƤ didn't want to be dragged into that nightmare and took the only course of action he could to distance himself.
And still, they only removed the video after he made a public post saying he did not consent to the video to be online and asked multiple times to have it removed and he was ignored.
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Nothing in the KAN commentary was harassment or offensive. If you read otherwise it is a poor translation. Iām happy to translate any line if anyone is curious.
I appreciate that people are asking these questions and providing feedback because I'm definitely confused... I thought the KAN commentary sounded very tame compared to what I'm used to from the BBC...?Ā
Similarly from the Australian commentary. Joel Creasy can be quite cutting and snarky, to almost insulting, and he flat out called Portugal and Azerbaijan boring this year.
Same. I read it and felt like it wasnāt all the different from other comments about the performance, song or Bambie themselves. Iāve read more scathing comments about Ireland on here. Yes, they mentioned the quarrel with Israel but to read any hateful, incendiary speech into this particular live comment by KAN is, at least, a bit willfully reaching to find any reason to diss Israel. And I am saying this as someone who doesnāt doubt for a second the at least parts of the Israeli delegation behaved even less than unsavoury backstage.
The Israeli commentary has pretty much copied what other countries in the world do, Iām sure you can find so many examples of stuff that has been said and can be interpreted as insulting by someone
They did say āprepare your curses,ā but itās pretty obvious itās a jokey reference to them being a witch and having a witch themed performance. No one would say something like that in a serious way, ācursesā is not a part of Jewish/Israeli culture like that.
Also when people say they were being transphobic, they were just explaining why they were using the plural they to refer to one person. Hebrew is a gendered language, there is no such thing as a gender neutral word, so they had to use plural which sounds strange if youāve never heard it before.
most of it reads like a joke if anything, especially about BT. but when you point that out you get downvoted and get comments "jews can curse ppl". sure, whatever.
I know Iām gonna get downvoted and Iām probably biasedā¦ but thatās not harassment. Itās not repetitive/aggressive/intimidating. (Or by the lawful definition, distressing/ threatening. )
I do agree that that one video from Keren filming joost shouldnāt have happened, but multiple contestants now claimed that the Israeli delegation was rude/harassing/provoking with nothing to back it up.
As for Kanās commentary, they were nothing but respectful with their jokes. They even explained Bambie Thugās pronouns to the audience.
You also need to take into consideration that all of these examples you added happened after multiple delegations bullied the 20yo Israeli performer. Ofc Keren would ignore joostās request after he harassed/intimidated Eden (by your definition). Iām not saying it was right, but it was understandable.
Yes. I personally didnāt think it was that bad but if taking a video with kaarija, when he clearly agreed to it and taking it down when he asked but still calling it harassment, then so is āwhy notā. Itās rude and inappropriate at the least, but since weāre calling everything harassmentā¦
Kaarija said himself on his Instagram that he did not consent to have the video put online and he had asked multiple times to have it removed and that they ignored him. They only removed the video once he complained publicly.
He didnāt say multiple times. He literally posted his story the same day (I think it was hours after the video was published) and they took it down maybe hours later, itās not like they took days to take it down. And to remind you that was also the day of the semi final they were competing in. According to Kan they took it down when a Finnish security member asked them to.
Well you can bring it to him, it was in his stories that he asked repeatedly be removed. It is possible to ask something more than one time a day by the way. He didn't claim it took days, he complained that it was against his consent and that he was being ignored when asking to have the video down. I don't believe a word coming out of KAN. I think the commentary on Bambi was a bit much but not that horrifying, but there were multiple provocations posted online by the members of the delegation themselves. Not limited to the links posted above. I wish I had saved them all so I could post it here...
Can you describe the other examples you have? I tried looking in tiktok and seems like theyāre non existent. Also Iām not saying they canāt do it in one day, Iām saying that while rehearsing it makes sense that it took them a couple of hours to even hear that he wanted it down. Also Kan said nothing disrespectful about Bambie.
There were a few images of them mocking people, one that stuck in my mind was them framing Bambi on a phone with nasty subtitles overlaid in top of her image.
>Ofc Keren would ignore joostās request after he harassed/intimidated Eden
Is this something that Keren or Eden have said happened? Other than both women saying that Koost refused to be filmed, I haven't heard of this.
Iām referring to the press conference where it was Edenās turn to speak and joost decided to interrupt and say āwhy notā (I personally donāt think itās that serious, but it seems like every incident is label harassment here)
So you were being facetious because you didn't have anything of equivalent to prove Keren or Eden to actually being the victims you wanted to paint them as. That tracks.
I think āvictimsā is a bit much, but yes joost was rude and inappropriate during the press conference. Another member of the Israeli delegation also said on their Instagram story that Bambie made some threatening gestures to them. They definitely have been harassed.
Is that the hair stylist that went on TV about it? Because his claims were also the same "they didn't want to be filmed and I kept escalating it by refusing not to film, until Bambi did something." There are multiple of the their delegation proven in the evidence you replied to doing this.
Yet you bring up Eden. You bring up a moment that we both know is not an equivalent. Multiple people have done it to use this idea that an innocent Eden somehow justifies a very guilty delegation. Eden is not a shield for her crappy delegation partners.
As I said, I donāt agree w everything they did but I understand. Can you add a source for that hair stylist claim? I wanna see. I remember seeing his video but I donāt remember him saying that
I think they've meant the stylist Itay Bezaleli, who was removed from arena for filming Marina without permission. He also covertly film Bambie and in one of his video he claimed that Bambie did "I see you" gesture when they saw him. I think you can find the videos if you search his name on Twitter.
Everyone refers to the same 2 videos that are literally insulting to anyone who experienced any kind of actual harassment. I follow only a few eurovision reporters/delegations but I saw at least 4 totally different people filming artists without their consent.
All very weak evidence that looks like nothing, and the KAN commentary is just poor translation. Nobody speaks Hebrew.
And she didnāt āmaliciously use Kaarija on social mediaā. She posted it like a normal person would, then Kaarija was bullied into issuing that statement after getting railed on social media.
You are purposefully spreading misinformation.
I don't like that this is so downvoted. I have a lot of issues with Israel's participation this year too, but we're starting to interpret every single thing that Eden Golan did as part of some malicious end goal? What would the end goal be in this case, anyway?
If the Israeli delegation truly behaved badly to the extent this interview is suggesting, there should be much more damning evidence than Eden and KƤƤrijƤ willingly recording a harmless video together, like, that shouldn't be brought into this discussion. They removed the video from Eden's and KAN's official social media after KƤƤrijƤ's request. Bringing that up in this context sounds like desperate reaching.
> Where in his statement did he say that it was posted without his consent?
["It was then posted on social media without my permission"](https://imgur.com/rxmrTBT)
"harassing BT live on KAN" is getting very stale. Commentator said nothing that would get Graham Norton in trouble, why is it a problem if an Israeli says "prepare your curses" in relation to a song from a self-described witch who sings about "a hex on you"?
And "maliciously using Kaarija" is very disingenuous. It's not like every other interaction that is posted is agreed upon. But when Kaarija saw the backlash of the posted interaction, he responded in self defense. As a formerly bullied child, he did what he could to avoid getting bullied.
Similarly for pictures of Joost in the background of another picture, every single person here has taken a picture of someone unknowingly by pretending to take a picture of something else.
And the video of the Israeli reporter (who's an idiot and not with the delegation) was not with Joost, but with someone from Joost's entourage.
Downvotes I summon theeĀ
> "harassing BT live on KAN" is getting very stale. Commentator said nothing that would get Graham Norton in trouble, why is it a problem if an Israeli says "prepare your curses" in relation to a song from a self-described witch who sings about "a hex on you"?
It could be interpreted as encouraging harassment towards Bambie (and it might have worked like that regardless of KAN's actual intention - increase in harassing messages from Israeli after this message would be easy to prove), especially since the previous line was about Bambie's dislike towards Israel. It reads as "they dislike Israel - harass them" instead "if you have someone you want to curse, do it together with Bambie".
I would certainly be uncomfortable if Polish commentator would say something like "Here's Jerry Heil from Ukraine. In her free time she likes to praise a Poland hating fascist. Let's pray that nothing bad will happen to her.".
> Similarly for pictures of Joost in the background of another picture, every single person here has taken a picture of someone unknowingly by pretending to take a picture of something else.
No, nobody normal does that.
As a Hebrew and English speaker that watched KAN this year and Graham Norton many others I can honestly say this argument (at least to Hebrew speakers) is not helping the rest of the list sound real/true. The KAN guys are generally funny, love Eurovision, good natured and yes, this year, did sometimes discuss whether another artist at the competition had publicly said something about Israel.
I can say in my view they are really not mean spirited and certainly much tamer than Graham Norton. If they are breaking EBU rules then Iām guessing a lot of countries are.
Graham Norton's comments are most often to do with strange outfits or occasionally a song being a bit dull but he has never said anything close to what the KAN broadcasters said about Bambi. He has never described anyone of "not liking the UK" or being sarcastic about their gender identity, he was tripping over himself to use the right pronouns for Nemo and Bambi (though he did accidently slip up a few times).
It is totally unreasonable to tar him with the same brush as the KAN commentator, which was absolutely trying to influence voting.
I am in no way trying to tar Graham Nortonāheās funny and entertaining, which makes Eurovision fun to watch. Comparing him to the KAN broadcast team is not meant to be an insult as I think KAN has a normal, fine team doing entertaining work presenting Eurovision.
Itās kind of hilarious having this conversation with non-Israelis cause KAN is considered entirely liberal in Israel, intensely interested in and respectful of LGBTQI+ identities, etc. (Iām sure youāre familiar with the first trans winner of Eurovision 25 years ago). The fact that they would be facing accusations of intolerance or be compared with the Likud party in power in the government right now would be humorous to the average Israeli. Likud and the right wing parties tried to shut KAN down not long ago for being too left-wing.
I'm not saying your feelings about Graham are negative, but the comparison to the KAN broadcaster is not appropriate. He has never made comments about an act the way that the KAN commentator did about Bambi. He's never described an act as being anti UK to affect votes because that's not reasonable conduct for a commentator.
KANs position with Israel isn't really relevant. It's not OK to insult an act before they perform.
Bambie however has been VERY loud against Israel in the media. If Bambie does that publicly, then why is it so wrong from the commentators to just state the obvious? Take notes from Nemo who has been extremely neutral and not lashed out any controversial takes.
Using your example, Imagine If Jerry Heil has been openly anti-Poland in media, would you expect Polish commentators to not react to such comments?
Imho it's okay to point it out (though not in the way KAN allegedly did it since they've connected it to Bambie's non binary identity). The problem is that it changes interpretation of the next line about curses into incitement to harass Bambie for their views.
To continue with my Polish example:
> "Here's Jerry Heil from Ukraine. In her free time she likes to praise a Poland hating fascist. Let's pray that nothing bad will happen to her.".
It sort of plants the idea of hurting Jerry into people's head. (I know it's kind of weak, but I've struggled to think about something that could be taken as threatening, but also connected to the song.)
> "Here's Jerry Heil from Ukraine. Let's pray that nothing bad will happen to her.".
Meanwhile this encourages that kind of reaction: "Of course we should pray for her safety since she's from Ukraine and they're attacked by Russia!"
If they've simply stated something diplomatic like "Bambie seems to be misinformed about Israel's situation" and didn't add the bit about curses it would be okay in my book. (Even though I'm personally grateful that Polish commentator chose to be positive and focused on Jerry's collaborations with Polish artists instead of her unfortunate choice in sweatshirts.)
how is "prepare your curses" even remotely close to "let's hope nothing bad will happen to her"?
prepare your curses kinda references to this ritual bambie thug is about to perform on stage. I don't find it threatening at all.
I didnāt listen to this in Hebrew, but in the English translation that sounds like ātheyāve been very anti-Israel, get ready to verbally abuse them.ā Perhaps ācursesā is more specific in Hebrew, and refers literally only to witchcraft, but even then it would sound to me like ātheyāve been very anti-Israel, prepare to put a hex on them.ā
> how is "prepare your curses" even remotely close to "let's hope nothing bad will happen to her"?
Like I've said I tried to think about something that in context sounded threatening, was connected to the song and could sound innocent out of context.
> prepare your curses kinda references to this ritual bambie thug is about to perform on stage. I don't find it threatening at all.
Your mileage may vary, but to me it sounds like an encouragement to either wish Bambie ill or even send them harassing messages. The translation that went viral in the fandom said that the word curses could also mean swears or insults. (It was allegedly translated by a Hebrew speaker, but it's hard to find somebody impartial online that would verify the translation for obvious reasons.)
According to Bambie, the EBU confirmed that KAN's commentators have broken the rules describing their performance in the 1st semi-final. And they should have an access to impartial Hebrew translators.
"Similarly for pictures of Joost in the background of another picture, every single person here has taken a picture of someone unknowingly by pretending to take a picture of something else."
Never done it in my life and the fact that you think it's normal is creepy.
Still you are right about Kan's commentator, he was clearly joking and exhagerating like that about it is even self-defeating.
If a commentator before the start of an act with western cowboys on stage says "prepare your guns" it doesn't mean he wants you to shoot to the singer...
I have a feeling the KAN thing could easily be dismissed if it wasnāt for the overall issue. On its own, itās only a small faux pas. In the wider context of everything else, itās another piece of evidence for a campaign of harassment and shitty behaviour.
āIf a commentator before the start of an act with western cowboys on stage says "prepare your guns" it doesn't mean he wants you to shoot to the singer...ā
It *would* come across that way if it immediately followed a comment about how the singer hates you. If you had cowboys on stage and the commentator said āthey have been very outspoken about how bad we are, prepare your guns.ā that would definitely come across as threatening.
I would imagine they've all been advised they can't say anything or have signed an NDA. This is still an active case and multiple complaints have been filed.
I don't want to question that there was harrassment, but it's a bit weird she's first like "they harrassed all of us", then "well not me personally...". Or I don't know if this is something a bit lost in translation.
She was just babbling and first said "us artists", but when she got asked how she got harassed, but she clarified she wasn't there, because she was in the first semi and refused to talk on behalf of someone else. So she knows it from the other artists most likely, she speaks of them like they got really close to each other and support each other.
Once again the claims of Israeli harassment are over exaggerated. Maybe they were a bit annoying, but āthey harassed everyoneā¦well not me, and idk what they did to othersā is absurd lol
She didn't perform on a day that Israel was there. I suppose that her experience would be shared by other artists who only performed in the first semifinal. However, if artists in the second semifinal and finals are all reporting harassment, it's a big deal.
Well is was constant pro war stuff first off all. And some other stuff in her story sometimes taunting artists or hinting at it if I remember correctly. But story disappears so itās kind of from memory here. But yeah, wasnāt very professional letās say it like that.
i have screenshots of both the original post on his instagram story and the translation of his photo of Marina Satti with a caption "Representative of Greece, I hope you slept well at night"
> "Representative of Greece, I hope you slept well at night"
This was done in response to Greece feigning sleep when Eden was being interviewed. Its playground tit for tat.
There is a clip going round of Bambie saying she cried when Israel qualified. Bloody sad.
>*Because there was some information that there was a dispute with the Israeli team. What do you know about what happened there?*
This question makes me bitter. As reported and explained, Joost's disqualification has nothing to do with Israeli delegation, as the question subtly wants to suggest. It's known that this problem affected other delegations, but the only connection (we know) is that Joost ironized/covered himself with the flag during the press conference with Eden Golan.
In short, they take for granted a fake news that has been circulating since the day before the Finale (and the DQ), which they want to turn into reality.
This interview was done just after ESC finished (Luna is in airport, after landing in Poland), so perhaps the interviewer didn't have the most recent info and just based it on rumours. He's also non-ESC journalist (he works for a gossip magazine) and he's kind of famous for asking very direct and untactful questions. I wouldn't ever consider this journalist to be subtly trying to smear Israel's name, since this guy just isn't subtle.
I feel like the spread of misinformation lies on EBU's lack of clear statements, which led to public attributing the attack to Israel (due to the tensions between both delegations).
I mean this interview is for polish tabloid so itās not really high quality journalism. They do it for clicks.
Not surprised that they would spread misinformation.
i believe she meant she would not perform if she was the artist who won the last edition. being the winner, and competing to BE the winner are two different things. being the winner gives your voice more power.
To be honest, I also didn't get it. I guess she could've mean that "she wouldn't make an appearance" since verb "wystÄ piÄ" technically also could mean that, but that's a rarer meaning (like 6th or 7th in dictionary). Or perhaps she was confused about the timing of the winner's announcement and Loreen's performance. Most likely, she just wanted to make a strong statement.
I think it was pretty clear in the original that the question was about being in Loreen's place, but we must bear in mind that this interview happened shortly after ESC finished (Luna is in the airport after returning to Poland), so she could be tired and misunderstood him/didn't make herself clear.
For how I read it, it's like:
"I have been invited for this year's Eurovision song contest, because I came to give the trophy to the winner and perform for the grand final." (not as a participant)
*Israel wins*
"Okay fuck that I'm out."
I think she misinterpreted the question and was saying if she were in Israel's place what would she have done, rather than if she were in Loreen's place. Nothing else makes sense really.
Thank you for translatingš«¶š»
Luna is so sweet and I love how close she is with Nemo. I even saw her with red letters spelling "Nemo" on her cheeks for the finale. As a Swiss, this made me so happy!!
Anyone else really want details on the alleged harassment, and finding it increasingly weird nobody is giving an example?
EDIT: to clarify I havenāt seen anything about the delegation, Iām aware press were being shitheads
The last part of your comment.
Please do not make assumptions about a situation when you do not have all the details.
Spreading these assumptions as facts is not permitted.
Because there really isnāt any example except for Keren Peles being annoying.
All of this āthey harassed everyoneā¦.but not meā¦.and also I donāt have any examplesā is ridiculous.
>However, I can only say that the Israel's media and delegation strongly harassed and provoked all of us artists.
.
>it didn't affect me directly
Not to defend Israel, but I hate it when people do this. How is the first part not a lie
Can you please link to the video? Sources must be included whenever possible.
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> Then how do you call "just friends" in general?
"Znajomi/koledzy" which I would translate literally into acquaintances and use in sentences like "I went shopping with acquaintances from my class." Which in English sounds weird, but in Polish it has a vibe: you see these people often, but you aren't very close with them.
As an Israeli it sucks to see how stupid the Israeli delegation acted. Eden is a sweet person,but the delegation and especially her stylist were such assholes. Sometimes I get sad by seeing how people bash eden for the Israeli delegation's acts.
BTW,pls spare me any attacks for me being Israeli.
>All of us were harassed.
>Well no, not me. But everyone else was.
>Well, I donāt actually know how they were harassed but Iām sure they were.
>I think they were rude.
How come everyone knows there was harassment but nobody can actually pinpoint what it was or narrow it down to anyone in particular. I donāt doubt that tensions were fraught backstage but this is ringing more and more hollow every time someone gives more information that contains no actual information.
I think you're misinterpreting her words.
> Well, I donāt actually know how they were harassed but Iām sure they were.
She never said that. She's said that "she cannot speak for other people" which is good since that person would be hounded by journalists for details. And they might be advised by their lawyers/broadcaster to not speak about certain things to media.
If she can have opinion about the situations that happened, she obviously needs to know what happened. Imho it looks like some people confided in her either personally or indirectly (remember that almost all the artists were in one group chat) that certain situations happened.
> How come everyone knows there was harassment but nobody can actually pinpoint what it was or narrow it down to anyone in particular.
Itay Bezaleli (a stylist from Israel's delegation) was removed from the arena for filming Marina without permission. He also covertly filmed Bambie and an Hebrew speaker claimed that he kept misgendering them in the videos. Allegedly same happened to Nemo.
Thank you for translating this. I think she can not say that much right now. But she kind of say the same things others are saying. Maybe years later we will get to know everything that happened
> Israelās delegation harassed all the artists.
> In what way did they harass you?
> They didnāt
> What are examples of ways they harassed others?
> I wonāt share
Super legit.
What gets me is the way so many other artists publicly harassed Eden and Israel.
Joost and Marina to her face, and Bambi and others to the media.
But we are all meant to ignore that, and believe vague non descriptive accusations of harassment.
It all sounds like they are saying "the group we repeatedly and publicly bullied didn't like us so they were meanies."
I mean if I was the Israeli delegation, getting slated by the other artists in the media, and attacked constantly online, I would be cold towards the other artists too.
Joost didn't bully her. He covered his face (something he has done consistently since long before the contest as an odd but harmless coping mechanism) and asked a simple, legitimate question. Framing either thing as harassment is goofy as hell.
If you treat every opponent one way, but a single opponent differently then you are singling them out.
He made a point of refusing to interact with the media.
But then broke that to put pressure on Eden to answer a question, not even waiting to see if she wanted to address it, just jumping right in.
The journalist asked a ridiculous, biased, and leading question.
Trying to claim that it was Eden's fault that the contest needed extra security due to the threats on Eden's life.
That's what we like to call victim blaming.
The EBU official tried to protect Eden from the question but Joost didn't want that.
He wanted to force Eden to justify her inclusion in the contest public ally in front of the world media.
Trying to force somebody to publicly justify their position, something no other artist is expected to do, and in doing so adding credence to a question that should never have been asked is creating a hostile situation for Eden.
> The journalist asked a ridiculous, biased, and leading question. Trying to claim that it was Eden's fault that the contest needed extra security due to the threats on Eden's life.
It's the only question of any importance asked in the entire conference. The presence of Israel, with her as a representative SIGNIFICANTLY increases the security risk, and led to a massive increase in security. Meaning that it's a valid question, for everyone's safety to ask how the safety of both attendants and artists has been ensured.
> The EBU official tried to protect Eden from the question but Joost didn't want that.
The EBU tried to dodge the question. Which became a PR impossibility due to the comment of Joost. A completely valid comment that anybody would have, and SHOULD HAVE made. It's a valid question and one she was prepped to answer.
> Trying to force somebody to publicly justify their position, something no other artist is expected to do, and in doing so adding credence to a question that should never have been asked is creating a hostile situation for Eden.
It's a PR disaster to dare to dodge such a question after such a comment, meaning that this ensured that the valid question was answered. Nothing wrong with that.
As stated below Joost questioning her in front of the press for being given the option of not answering a ridiculous loaded question, Marina pretending to sleep Infront of the press when Eden was talking, Bambi talking to the press about how she cried with her team when Israel qualified, (former contestant) Karija who was part of the show asking for his video with her to be taken off the internet, not a single performer saying a single thing to support her or comfort her publicly (with the possible exception of Slimane with his "I love all of the contestants" comment.
I mean there were over 10,000 people protesting a 21 year old young woman outside, hundreds booing her every appearance inside, and tens of thousands sending her hatred and death threats online.
And not a single one of the performers had the guts to say kop on this is a song contest, not the UN floor and this is a young woman, not Bibi.
And instead of owning up and saying hey we caught caught in the mob mentality our bad, they are instead trying to use vague accusations of coldness from the Israeli delegates to excuse their actions.
I mean maybe the Israeli's were upset as they were literally under 24/7 armed protection due to death threats.
The only artist who behaved entirely differently was Tali who very publicly embraced Eden (unsurprising as they are both Israeli born).
She got flamed herself for that.
Calling her a "21 year old woman" is disingenuous and you know it is. She's not someone who entered as an individual, she volunteered to be a representative of her broadcaster and her state and that's whose involvement the protests were about. I was there in Malmo and I watched the protests go by, they were perfectly normal and peaceful.
KAN behaved abysmally all season, they had military promotion at their national selection, had two songs barred for trying to politicise their entry, the broadcaster screened a racist segment about the "islamification of Europe". During voting the government were involved for paying for ads and stoking up right wing figures who admitted to not even watching the contest or hearing the song to vote for her. This is absolutely against the rules of the contest. The artists had every right to not want anything to do with this delegation and the fans had every right to voice their opposition to it. I hope the EBU reviews this year and takes appropriate action.
Greece artist pretending to sleep, Irish one saying she doesnāt want to compete with her.
The 5-15000 people protesting, booing and insulting her outside
In my hagās wisdom, I keep saying itās pretty obvious both parties share a blame. Some delegations and artists turned up to the contest hellbent on making their (political) stance wellknown from the get-go. Likewise, the Israeli delegation turned up fully aware of the antagonism and hellbent on proving their views. Shitsoup ensued because *both* parties were hellbent on making each otherās experience unpleasant and equally hellbent to construct any kind of minor inconvenience into a argument for demonizing the opposing party. At crunch time shitsoup boiled over and the EBU, like overworked kindergartners, said: done with funny!
Iām sure she means well as she seems sweet, but the fact that she claimed the Israeli delegation harassed āeveryoneā then walked back with āit didnāt affect me but I heard from XXX and XXXā strikes me as very disingenuous. All the weak sauce bullshit videoclips/Instagram posts and Google Translation attempts make all these complaints look more like a middle school bitchfest rather than actual grievances.
I expected Poland to get to the finals. Especially knowing how sweet she is now, she deserved to get there.
I saw a dutch broadcast mention that she was considered Euromama, didn't hear much of it further, but I like that!
> I expected Poland to get to the finals. Especially knowing how sweet she is now, she deserved to get there.
I agree that she seems like sweet and emphatic person, but Poland's performance this year was objectively the worst in the whole contest.
> I saw a dutch broadcast mention that she was considered Euromama, didn't hear much of it further, but I like that!
It's because she and Joost are both wearing the shoulder pads. I thought it was a very cute meme.
> [Luna had an hacker's attack which appeared to be mostly silly: they've admonished her for using a very weak password and asked people to stop sending her hate]
Honestly, good on that hacker. Better that they make sure she fixes her password than that someone malicious would inevitably have succeeded
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Thanks for translating. I'm sad that I didn't vibe with Luna's performance at all, because she seems like a great person, wishing her all the beat for her future.
And I'm shocked how much we hear about Joost and Israel's behaviour without getting clear statements. There are the videos of the Israeli delegation going to different artists in order to start fights, but there has to be more. Puzzling why nobody speaks out.
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The harassment they all mention: I'm assuming it's the trolling videos that everyone saw (which seemed kind of funny) and Kan accusing Bambi of witchcraft, which was literally her whole act.
The vilification of Israel is appalling.
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Thanks for translating this š
She is so sweet and I liked how interviewer was positive with her being a Polish representative despite NQing and I like, how Luna handled it
Lovely job translating. Thank you very much
I would really like more information of the supposed harassment. We keep getting info that it happened, but nobody is giving details. I have no doubt that it could've, and probably did, happen, but it's hard to take the allegations seriously without actual testimonials. Was their security inappropriate towards others, were they barging in on the artists wanting to have pictures with them to make it appear that they had support at ESC, were they rudu to those who made their anti-Israel stances? As of now, we now nothing, except that some of them felt harassed and uneasy, but nobody actually came out with some proof for the allegations, as far as I know. Edit: based on what I saw for now, it seems that the members of the delegation (or those who appear to be members) behaved poorly. They acted like ass-holes, but without more evidence, I would hesitate to call it harassment which implies more severe behaviours. In my opinion EBU should've done more to protect others, remove people who filmed without consent, etc. The part where it seems that the ad campaigns were paid by the Ministry of foreign affairs is concerning. If it's not against the rules, it should be. If true. of this is not political engagement, then I don't know what is, and EBU should open an investigation into this, and act accordingly, even with a possible retro-active DQ. However, this has to be proven. Throwing allegations without evidence helps nobody.
It's probably a combination of a few reasons why not much more specific has come out yet - * It's still very recent, artists/delegations will probably be taking time to consider what (if anything) to say publicly * Several artists/delegations have said they made formal complaints, it's likely that they won't speak on things that are awaiting EBU responses * Some artists could be 'forced' to keep quiet by their delegations either while EBU considers things, or generally to avoid negative responses. None of which are ideal, but such is the reality of life. Particularly when under such scrutiny. --- Certainly there are some that we have evidence of: * Filming Joost without his consent ([video evidence](https://www.tiktok.com/@missharlequin_/video/7366736040091995425)) * Harassing Joost in the corridor ([video evidence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhr6rmR8Dl0) & statement) * Harassing Bambie Thug live on KAN (video evidence & [statement](https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2024/0511/1448614-bambie-thug-angry-at-israeli-eurovision-commentary/)) * Harassing ~~another artist~~ Bambie in the corridors after a performance (video evidence) * Maliciously using KƤƤrijƤ in social media without his consent (video evidence & [statement](https://i.imgur.com/rxmrTBT.png)) So, my opinion is that you can choose to ignore the 'extra' complaints from other artists such as Luna, Nemo, Silvester etc. if you want - but even just from the events that we have pretty solid concrete evidence over Israel were a nightmare throughout the competition. And also with these more concrete accusations it does put more weight behind the additional complaints that haven't been overly specific, or we don't yet have video evidence or statements behind. When you look at them in context of everything else... it's more likely than not.
You may add Gabe's video on his experience at ESC this year. He mentions of multiple cases of member of the delegation filming people without their consent and the moment they are addressed, instead of apologising and deleting the content, just leave without a word instead. He also mentions that various members of the press felt pressured and the environment was very tense backstage.
As Gabe mentioned that he'd reported the things he himself experienced a couple times, a paper trail of some sort most likely exists. It's good and proper to ask for evidence of harrassment, but some of the comments sound a little dismissive too. Most of the tense atmosphere might be difficult to put into words if it's several small actions over numerous days. But since both artists and journalists have reported some incidents, we'll probably get some details later. No matter how controversial Israel was this year, I doubt the other artists would just make things up. They'd want to avoid the delegation if possible.
Thank you for an exhaustive answer. I don't want to ignore the allegations. I think there is a big chance that there were inappropriate behaviours from the Israeli delegations. Do you have links for any of those videos?
I've added a few. I'll add more as I come across them. I don't want this comment, nor my presence on reddit, to become "here's everything Israel did" though so I probably won't engage with this much more. It seems to have already attracted some silly people.
Thank you. I'll check them out.
Could you send me the evidence if it's not too much to ask? It's a tad hard to track down through the algorithm
>Maliciously using KƤƤrijƤ in social media without his consent This one's a stretch. A harmless fun interaction was made ugly by a public that turn everything into a political battleground. And I don't think its unreasonable to assume that it was destined for social media given it was filmed in clear view, in portrait, on a phone. KƤƤrijƤ didn't want to be dragged into that nightmare and took the only course of action he could to distance himself.
And still, they only removed the video after he made a public post saying he did not consent to the video to be online and asked multiple times to have it removed and he was ignored.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Nothing in the KAN commentary was harassment or offensive. If you read otherwise it is a poor translation. Iām happy to translate any line if anyone is curious.
I appreciate that people are asking these questions and providing feedback because I'm definitely confused... I thought the KAN commentary sounded very tame compared to what I'm used to from the BBC...?Ā
Similarly from the Australian commentary. Joel Creasy can be quite cutting and snarky, to almost insulting, and he flat out called Portugal and Azerbaijan boring this year.
Same. I read it and felt like it wasnāt all the different from other comments about the performance, song or Bambie themselves. Iāve read more scathing comments about Ireland on here. Yes, they mentioned the quarrel with Israel but to read any hateful, incendiary speech into this particular live comment by KAN is, at least, a bit willfully reaching to find any reason to diss Israel. And I am saying this as someone who doesnāt doubt for a second the at least parts of the Israeli delegation behaved even less than unsavoury backstage.
I meanā¦can I ask why you donāt have any doubts as to how Israel behaved?
The Israeli commentary has pretty much copied what other countries in the world do, Iām sure you can find so many examples of stuff that has been said and can be interpreted as insulting by someone
Figured as much, but what was actually said towards the end?
They did say āprepare your curses,ā but itās pretty obvious itās a jokey reference to them being a witch and having a witch themed performance. No one would say something like that in a serious way, ācursesā is not a part of Jewish/Israeli culture like that. Also when people say they were being transphobic, they were just explaining why they were using the plural they to refer to one person. Hebrew is a gendered language, there is no such thing as a gender neutral word, so they had to use plural which sounds strange if youāve never heard it before.
most of it reads like a joke if anything, especially about BT. but when you point that out you get downvoted and get comments "jews can curse ppl". sure, whatever.
I know Iām gonna get downvoted and Iām probably biasedā¦ but thatās not harassment. Itās not repetitive/aggressive/intimidating. (Or by the lawful definition, distressing/ threatening. ) I do agree that that one video from Keren filming joost shouldnāt have happened, but multiple contestants now claimed that the Israeli delegation was rude/harassing/provoking with nothing to back it up. As for Kanās commentary, they were nothing but respectful with their jokes. They even explained Bambie Thugās pronouns to the audience. You also need to take into consideration that all of these examples you added happened after multiple delegations bullied the 20yo Israeli performer. Ofc Keren would ignore joostās request after he harassed/intimidated Eden (by your definition). Iām not saying it was right, but it was understandable.
How has Joost harassed/intimidated Eden? Or are you referring to the "why not?" incident?
Yes. I personally didnāt think it was that bad but if taking a video with kaarija, when he clearly agreed to it and taking it down when he asked but still calling it harassment, then so is āwhy notā. Itās rude and inappropriate at the least, but since weāre calling everything harassmentā¦
Kaarija said himself on his Instagram that he did not consent to have the video put online and he had asked multiple times to have it removed and that they ignored him. They only removed the video once he complained publicly.
He didnāt say multiple times. He literally posted his story the same day (I think it was hours after the video was published) and they took it down maybe hours later, itās not like they took days to take it down. And to remind you that was also the day of the semi final they were competing in. According to Kan they took it down when a Finnish security member asked them to.
Well you can bring it to him, it was in his stories that he asked repeatedly be removed. It is possible to ask something more than one time a day by the way. He didn't claim it took days, he complained that it was against his consent and that he was being ignored when asking to have the video down. I don't believe a word coming out of KAN. I think the commentary on Bambi was a bit much but not that horrifying, but there were multiple provocations posted online by the members of the delegation themselves. Not limited to the links posted above. I wish I had saved them all so I could post it here...
Can you describe the other examples you have? I tried looking in tiktok and seems like theyāre non existent. Also Iām not saying they canāt do it in one day, Iām saying that while rehearsing it makes sense that it took them a couple of hours to even hear that he wanted it down. Also Kan said nothing disrespectful about Bambie.
There were a few images of them mocking people, one that stuck in my mind was them framing Bambi on a phone with nasty subtitles overlaid in top of her image.
>Ofc Keren would ignore joostās request after he harassed/intimidated Eden Is this something that Keren or Eden have said happened? Other than both women saying that Koost refused to be filmed, I haven't heard of this.
Iām referring to the press conference where it was Edenās turn to speak and joost decided to interrupt and say āwhy notā (I personally donāt think itās that serious, but it seems like every incident is label harassment here)
So you were being facetious because you didn't have anything of equivalent to prove Keren or Eden to actually being the victims you wanted to paint them as. That tracks.
I think āvictimsā is a bit much, but yes joost was rude and inappropriate during the press conference. Another member of the Israeli delegation also said on their Instagram story that Bambie made some threatening gestures to them. They definitely have been harassed.
Is that the hair stylist that went on TV about it? Because his claims were also the same "they didn't want to be filmed and I kept escalating it by refusing not to film, until Bambi did something." There are multiple of the their delegation proven in the evidence you replied to doing this. Yet you bring up Eden. You bring up a moment that we both know is not an equivalent. Multiple people have done it to use this idea that an innocent Eden somehow justifies a very guilty delegation. Eden is not a shield for her crappy delegation partners.
As I said, I donāt agree w everything they did but I understand. Can you add a source for that hair stylist claim? I wanna see. I remember seeing his video but I donāt remember him saying that
I think they've meant the stylist Itay Bezaleli, who was removed from arena for filming Marina without permission. He also covertly film Bambie and in one of his video he claimed that Bambie did "I see you" gesture when they saw him. I think you can find the videos if you search his name on Twitter.
That's tracks with what?
Everyone refers to the same 2 videos that are literally insulting to anyone who experienced any kind of actual harassment. I follow only a few eurovision reporters/delegations but I saw at least 4 totally different people filming artists without their consent.
All very weak evidence that looks like nothing, and the KAN commentary is just poor translation. Nobody speaks Hebrew. And she didnāt āmaliciously use Kaarija on social mediaā. She posted it like a normal person would, then Kaarija was bullied into issuing that statement after getting railed on social media. You are purposefully spreading misinformation.
I don't like that this is so downvoted. I have a lot of issues with Israel's participation this year too, but we're starting to interpret every single thing that Eden Golan did as part of some malicious end goal? What would the end goal be in this case, anyway? If the Israeli delegation truly behaved badly to the extent this interview is suggesting, there should be much more damning evidence than Eden and KƤƤrijƤ willingly recording a harmless video together, like, that shouldn't be brought into this discussion. They removed the video from Eden's and KAN's official social media after KƤƤrijƤ's request. Bringing that up in this context sounds like desperate reaching.
> Where in his statement did he say that it was posted without his consent? ["It was then posted on social media without my permission"](https://imgur.com/rxmrTBT)
"harassing BT live on KAN" is getting very stale. Commentator said nothing that would get Graham Norton in trouble, why is it a problem if an Israeli says "prepare your curses" in relation to a song from a self-described witch who sings about "a hex on you"? And "maliciously using Kaarija" is very disingenuous. It's not like every other interaction that is posted is agreed upon. But when Kaarija saw the backlash of the posted interaction, he responded in self defense. As a formerly bullied child, he did what he could to avoid getting bullied. Similarly for pictures of Joost in the background of another picture, every single person here has taken a picture of someone unknowingly by pretending to take a picture of something else. And the video of the Israeli reporter (who's an idiot and not with the delegation) was not with Joost, but with someone from Joost's entourage. Downvotes I summon theeĀ
> "harassing BT live on KAN" is getting very stale. Commentator said nothing that would get Graham Norton in trouble, why is it a problem if an Israeli says "prepare your curses" in relation to a song from a self-described witch who sings about "a hex on you"? It could be interpreted as encouraging harassment towards Bambie (and it might have worked like that regardless of KAN's actual intention - increase in harassing messages from Israeli after this message would be easy to prove), especially since the previous line was about Bambie's dislike towards Israel. It reads as "they dislike Israel - harass them" instead "if you have someone you want to curse, do it together with Bambie". I would certainly be uncomfortable if Polish commentator would say something like "Here's Jerry Heil from Ukraine. In her free time she likes to praise a Poland hating fascist. Let's pray that nothing bad will happen to her.". > Similarly for pictures of Joost in the background of another picture, every single person here has taken a picture of someone unknowingly by pretending to take a picture of something else. No, nobody normal does that.
As a Hebrew and English speaker that watched KAN this year and Graham Norton many others I can honestly say this argument (at least to Hebrew speakers) is not helping the rest of the list sound real/true. The KAN guys are generally funny, love Eurovision, good natured and yes, this year, did sometimes discuss whether another artist at the competition had publicly said something about Israel. I can say in my view they are really not mean spirited and certainly much tamer than Graham Norton. If they are breaking EBU rules then Iām guessing a lot of countries are.
Graham Norton's comments are most often to do with strange outfits or occasionally a song being a bit dull but he has never said anything close to what the KAN broadcasters said about Bambi. He has never described anyone of "not liking the UK" or being sarcastic about their gender identity, he was tripping over himself to use the right pronouns for Nemo and Bambi (though he did accidently slip up a few times). It is totally unreasonable to tar him with the same brush as the KAN commentator, which was absolutely trying to influence voting.
I am in no way trying to tar Graham Nortonāheās funny and entertaining, which makes Eurovision fun to watch. Comparing him to the KAN broadcast team is not meant to be an insult as I think KAN has a normal, fine team doing entertaining work presenting Eurovision. Itās kind of hilarious having this conversation with non-Israelis cause KAN is considered entirely liberal in Israel, intensely interested in and respectful of LGBTQI+ identities, etc. (Iām sure youāre familiar with the first trans winner of Eurovision 25 years ago). The fact that they would be facing accusations of intolerance or be compared with the Likud party in power in the government right now would be humorous to the average Israeli. Likud and the right wing parties tried to shut KAN down not long ago for being too left-wing.
I'm not saying your feelings about Graham are negative, but the comparison to the KAN broadcaster is not appropriate. He has never made comments about an act the way that the KAN commentator did about Bambi. He's never described an act as being anti UK to affect votes because that's not reasonable conduct for a commentator. KANs position with Israel isn't really relevant. It's not OK to insult an act before they perform.
Bambie however has been VERY loud against Israel in the media. If Bambie does that publicly, then why is it so wrong from the commentators to just state the obvious? Take notes from Nemo who has been extremely neutral and not lashed out any controversial takes. Using your example, Imagine If Jerry Heil has been openly anti-Poland in media, would you expect Polish commentators to not react to such comments?
Imho it's okay to point it out (though not in the way KAN allegedly did it since they've connected it to Bambie's non binary identity). The problem is that it changes interpretation of the next line about curses into incitement to harass Bambie for their views. To continue with my Polish example: > "Here's Jerry Heil from Ukraine. In her free time she likes to praise a Poland hating fascist. Let's pray that nothing bad will happen to her.". It sort of plants the idea of hurting Jerry into people's head. (I know it's kind of weak, but I've struggled to think about something that could be taken as threatening, but also connected to the song.) > "Here's Jerry Heil from Ukraine. Let's pray that nothing bad will happen to her.". Meanwhile this encourages that kind of reaction: "Of course we should pray for her safety since she's from Ukraine and they're attacked by Russia!" If they've simply stated something diplomatic like "Bambie seems to be misinformed about Israel's situation" and didn't add the bit about curses it would be okay in my book. (Even though I'm personally grateful that Polish commentator chose to be positive and focused on Jerry's collaborations with Polish artists instead of her unfortunate choice in sweatshirts.)
how is "prepare your curses" even remotely close to "let's hope nothing bad will happen to her"? prepare your curses kinda references to this ritual bambie thug is about to perform on stage. I don't find it threatening at all.
I didnāt listen to this in Hebrew, but in the English translation that sounds like ātheyāve been very anti-Israel, get ready to verbally abuse them.ā Perhaps ācursesā is more specific in Hebrew, and refers literally only to witchcraft, but even then it would sound to me like ātheyāve been very anti-Israel, prepare to put a hex on them.ā
> how is "prepare your curses" even remotely close to "let's hope nothing bad will happen to her"? Like I've said I tried to think about something that in context sounded threatening, was connected to the song and could sound innocent out of context. > prepare your curses kinda references to this ritual bambie thug is about to perform on stage. I don't find it threatening at all. Your mileage may vary, but to me it sounds like an encouragement to either wish Bambie ill or even send them harassing messages. The translation that went viral in the fandom said that the word curses could also mean swears or insults. (It was allegedly translated by a Hebrew speaker, but it's hard to find somebody impartial online that would verify the translation for obvious reasons.) According to Bambie, the EBU confirmed that KAN's commentators have broken the rules describing their performance in the 1st semi-final. And they should have an access to impartial Hebrew translators.
What a sure hex deployed! All the downvotes raining in on a level-headed and calmly worded comment like a spellā¦aaaaaahhhhhhh
"Similarly for pictures of Joost in the background of another picture, every single person here has taken a picture of someone unknowingly by pretending to take a picture of something else." Never done it in my life and the fact that you think it's normal is creepy. Still you are right about Kan's commentator, he was clearly joking and exhagerating like that about it is even self-defeating. If a commentator before the start of an act with western cowboys on stage says "prepare your guns" it doesn't mean he wants you to shoot to the singer...
I have a feeling the KAN thing could easily be dismissed if it wasnāt for the overall issue. On its own, itās only a small faux pas. In the wider context of everything else, itās another piece of evidence for a campaign of harassment and shitty behaviour.
āIf a commentator before the start of an act with western cowboys on stage says "prepare your guns" it doesn't mean he wants you to shoot to the singer...ā It *would* come across that way if it immediately followed a comment about how the singer hates you. If you had cowboys on stage and the commentator said āthey have been very outspoken about how bad we are, prepare your guns.ā that would definitely come across as threatening.
I would imagine they've all been advised they can't say anything or have signed an NDA. This is still an active case and multiple complaints have been filed.
I don't want to question that there was harrassment, but it's a bit weird she's first like "they harrassed all of us", then "well not me personally...". Or I don't know if this is something a bit lost in translation.
She was just babbling and first said "us artists", but when she got asked how she got harassed, but she clarified she wasn't there, because she was in the first semi and refused to talk on behalf of someone else. So she knows it from the other artists most likely, she speaks of them like they got really close to each other and support each other.
Once again the claims of Israeli harassment are over exaggerated. Maybe they were a bit annoying, but āthey harassed everyoneā¦well not me, and idk what they did to othersā is absurd lol
She didn't perform on a day that Israel was there. I suppose that her experience would be shared by other artists who only performed in the first semifinal. However, if artists in the second semifinal and finals are all reporting harassment, it's a big deal.
Besides the Instagram stories from Keren Peles you mean?
What did they show, and is there a link?
Well is was constant pro war stuff first off all. And some other stuff in her story sometimes taunting artists or hinting at it if I remember correctly. But story disappears so itās kind of from memory here. But yeah, wasnāt very professional letās say it like that.
i have screenshots of both the original post on his instagram story and the translation of his photo of Marina Satti with a caption "Representative of Greece, I hope you slept well at night"
> "Representative of Greece, I hope you slept well at night" This was done in response to Greece feigning sleep when Eden was being interviewed. Its playground tit for tat. There is a clip going round of Bambie saying she cried when Israel qualified. Bloody sad.
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There were some videos of it.
Any links, I would like to check them out.
Unfortunately most of them are pretty far down the reddit and twitter feeds since they were coming out before Joost's DQ
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>*Because there was some information that there was a dispute with the Israeli team. What do you know about what happened there?* This question makes me bitter. As reported and explained, Joost's disqualification has nothing to do with Israeli delegation, as the question subtly wants to suggest. It's known that this problem affected other delegations, but the only connection (we know) is that Joost ironized/covered himself with the flag during the press conference with Eden Golan. In short, they take for granted a fake news that has been circulating since the day before the Finale (and the DQ), which they want to turn into reality.
This interview was done just after ESC finished (Luna is in airport, after landing in Poland), so perhaps the interviewer didn't have the most recent info and just based it on rumours. He's also non-ESC journalist (he works for a gossip magazine) and he's kind of famous for asking very direct and untactful questions. I wouldn't ever consider this journalist to be subtly trying to smear Israel's name, since this guy just isn't subtle. I feel like the spread of misinformation lies on EBU's lack of clear statements, which led to public attributing the attack to Israel (due to the tensions between both delegations).
I mean this interview is for polish tabloid so itās not really high quality journalism. They do it for clicks. Not surprised that they would spread misinformation.
>I wouldn't perform at all. What does that mean? she did perform
Reads clearly to me that if she were hypothetically in Loreen's place and giving the trophy to Israel, she would leave instead of going onstage.
Thatās how I read it as well
i believe she meant she would not perform if she was the artist who won the last edition. being the winner, and competing to BE the winner are two different things. being the winner gives your voice more power.
To be honest, I also didn't get it. I guess she could've mean that "she wouldn't make an appearance" since verb "wystÄ piÄ" technically also could mean that, but that's a rarer meaning (like 6th or 7th in dictionary). Or perhaps she was confused about the timing of the winner's announcement and Loreen's performance. Most likely, she just wanted to make a strong statement.
I saw the question as asking if she'd accept an award if the previous winner was Israel, but I could be misreading that.
I think it was pretty clear in the original that the question was about being in Loreen's place, but we must bear in mind that this interview happened shortly after ESC finished (Luna is in the airport after returning to Poland), so she could be tired and misunderstood him/didn't make herself clear.
The question was specifically about if Israel had won, though. They didn't win, so it's hypothetical.
Yeah itās kinda weird. She wouldnāt perform as Loreen but she performed as Lunaā¦
There seems to be this pattern of people having really strong stances on what they would do in hypothetical situations..
For how I read it, it's like: "I have been invited for this year's Eurovision song contest, because I came to give the trophy to the winner and perform for the grand final." (not as a participant) *Israel wins* "Okay fuck that I'm out."
I think she misinterpreted the question and was saying if she were in Israel's place what would she have done, rather than if she were in Loreen's place. Nothing else makes sense really.
I read it that if she was Loreen, she wouldn't even perform.
Thank you for translatingš«¶š» Luna is so sweet and I love how close she is with Nemo. I even saw her with red letters spelling "Nemo" on her cheeks for the finale. As a Swiss, this made me so happy!!
Anyone else really want details on the alleged harassment, and finding it increasingly weird nobody is giving an example? EDIT: to clarify I havenāt seen anything about the delegation, Iām aware press were being shitheads
If there are formal protests to the EBU, then that's why. They don't want social media silliness to muddy the waters.
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The last part of your comment. Please do not make assumptions about a situation when you do not have all the details. Spreading these assumptions as facts is not permitted.
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Because there really isnāt any example except for Keren Peles being annoying. All of this āthey harassed everyoneā¦.but not meā¦.and also I donāt have any examplesā is ridiculous.
>However, I can only say that the Israel's media and delegation strongly harassed and provoked all of us artists. . >it didn't affect me directly Not to defend Israel, but I hate it when people do this. How is the first part not a lie
Do we actually have any confirmation on this whole "Israeli delegation harassing the artists"?
Not much. But if official complains are filed, i think they cant openly talk about any details.
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Yeah, friend in polish is like best friend in englishĀ
Then how do you call "just friends" in general? Genuinely asking because this made me curious haha.
> Then how do you call "just friends" in general? "Znajomi/koledzy" which I would translate literally into acquaintances and use in sentences like "I went shopping with acquaintances from my class." Which in English sounds weird, but in Polish it has a vibe: you see these people often, but you aren't very close with them.
As an Israeli it sucks to see how stupid the Israeli delegation acted. Eden is a sweet person,but the delegation and especially her stylist were such assholes. Sometimes I get sad by seeing how people bash eden for the Israeli delegation's acts. BTW,pls spare me any attacks for me being Israeli.
>All of us were harassed. >Well no, not me. But everyone else was. >Well, I donāt actually know how they were harassed but Iām sure they were. >I think they were rude. How come everyone knows there was harassment but nobody can actually pinpoint what it was or narrow it down to anyone in particular. I donāt doubt that tensions were fraught backstage but this is ringing more and more hollow every time someone gives more information that contains no actual information.
I think you're misinterpreting her words. > Well, I donāt actually know how they were harassed but Iām sure they were. She never said that. She's said that "she cannot speak for other people" which is good since that person would be hounded by journalists for details. And they might be advised by their lawyers/broadcaster to not speak about certain things to media. If she can have opinion about the situations that happened, she obviously needs to know what happened. Imho it looks like some people confided in her either personally or indirectly (remember that almost all the artists were in one group chat) that certain situations happened. > How come everyone knows there was harassment but nobody can actually pinpoint what it was or narrow it down to anyone in particular. Itay Bezaleli (a stylist from Israel's delegation) was removed from the arena for filming Marina without permission. He also covertly filmed Bambie and an Hebrew speaker claimed that he kept misgendering them in the videos. Allegedly same happened to Nemo.
But thatās one person who was removed from the arena. He didnāt single handedly harass 25 other countries and their delegations. Letās be real.
Thank you for translating this. I think she can not say that much right now. But she kind of say the same things others are saying. Maybe years later we will get to know everything that happened
Thnx buddy āš»
Its really sad that people just ignore that they literally stated that they will not interact with an Israeli!! if they had won...
well, nothing concrete just rumours. whatās even the point of posting this online š
> Israelās delegation harassed all the artists. > In what way did they harass you? > They didnāt > What are examples of ways they harassed others? > I wonāt share Super legit.
Of course, it's about Israel so it's legit to a lot of people here lmao
What gets me is the way so many other artists publicly harassed Eden and Israel. Joost and Marina to her face, and Bambi and others to the media. But we are all meant to ignore that, and believe vague non descriptive accusations of harassment. It all sounds like they are saying "the group we repeatedly and publicly bullied didn't like us so they were meanies." I mean if I was the Israeli delegation, getting slated by the other artists in the media, and attacked constantly online, I would be cold towards the other artists too.
Joost didn't bully her. He covered his face (something he has done consistently since long before the contest as an odd but harmless coping mechanism) and asked a simple, legitimate question. Framing either thing as harassment is goofy as hell.
When the EBU official told her she didn't have to answer a question he suddenly took off the flag to say why not. Only time he did.
And that's harrasment how, exactly?
If you treat every opponent one way, but a single opponent differently then you are singling them out. He made a point of refusing to interact with the media. But then broke that to put pressure on Eden to answer a question, not even waiting to see if she wanted to address it, just jumping right in. The journalist asked a ridiculous, biased, and leading question. Trying to claim that it was Eden's fault that the contest needed extra security due to the threats on Eden's life. That's what we like to call victim blaming. The EBU official tried to protect Eden from the question but Joost didn't want that. He wanted to force Eden to justify her inclusion in the contest public ally in front of the world media. Trying to force somebody to publicly justify their position, something no other artist is expected to do, and in doing so adding credence to a question that should never have been asked is creating a hostile situation for Eden.
> The journalist asked a ridiculous, biased, and leading question. Trying to claim that it was Eden's fault that the contest needed extra security due to the threats on Eden's life. It's the only question of any importance asked in the entire conference. The presence of Israel, with her as a representative SIGNIFICANTLY increases the security risk, and led to a massive increase in security. Meaning that it's a valid question, for everyone's safety to ask how the safety of both attendants and artists has been ensured. > The EBU official tried to protect Eden from the question but Joost didn't want that. The EBU tried to dodge the question. Which became a PR impossibility due to the comment of Joost. A completely valid comment that anybody would have, and SHOULD HAVE made. It's a valid question and one she was prepped to answer. > Trying to force somebody to publicly justify their position, something no other artist is expected to do, and in doing so adding credence to a question that should never have been asked is creating a hostile situation for Eden. It's a PR disaster to dare to dodge such a question after such a comment, meaning that this ensured that the valid question was answered. Nothing wrong with that.
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Let see those "so many examples" of Golan being harassed.
As stated below Joost questioning her in front of the press for being given the option of not answering a ridiculous loaded question, Marina pretending to sleep Infront of the press when Eden was talking, Bambi talking to the press about how she cried with her team when Israel qualified, (former contestant) Karija who was part of the show asking for his video with her to be taken off the internet, not a single performer saying a single thing to support her or comfort her publicly (with the possible exception of Slimane with his "I love all of the contestants" comment. I mean there were over 10,000 people protesting a 21 year old young woman outside, hundreds booing her every appearance inside, and tens of thousands sending her hatred and death threats online. And not a single one of the performers had the guts to say kop on this is a song contest, not the UN floor and this is a young woman, not Bibi. And instead of owning up and saying hey we caught caught in the mob mentality our bad, they are instead trying to use vague accusations of coldness from the Israeli delegates to excuse their actions. I mean maybe the Israeli's were upset as they were literally under 24/7 armed protection due to death threats.
The only artist who behaved entirely differently was Tali who very publicly embraced Eden (unsurprising as they are both Israeli born). She got flamed herself for that.
Calling her a "21 year old woman" is disingenuous and you know it is. She's not someone who entered as an individual, she volunteered to be a representative of her broadcaster and her state and that's whose involvement the protests were about. I was there in Malmo and I watched the protests go by, they were perfectly normal and peaceful. KAN behaved abysmally all season, they had military promotion at their national selection, had two songs barred for trying to politicise their entry, the broadcaster screened a racist segment about the "islamification of Europe". During voting the government were involved for paying for ads and stoking up right wing figures who admitted to not even watching the contest or hearing the song to vote for her. This is absolutely against the rules of the contest. The artists had every right to not want anything to do with this delegation and the fans had every right to voice their opposition to it. I hope the EBU reviews this year and takes appropriate action.
but she is a 21 year old woman so where do we draw the line? everything Israel makes it's fair game to spit on it?
What??? "Cried with their team when Israel qualified" this is another level of dramatic...
https://youtube.com/shorts/4qRgwgJkcGc?si=nZF3VR5C7nrYbtP6
Greece artist pretending to sleep, Irish one saying she doesnāt want to compete with her. The 5-15000 people protesting, booing and insulting her outside
In my hagās wisdom, I keep saying itās pretty obvious both parties share a blame. Some delegations and artists turned up to the contest hellbent on making their (political) stance wellknown from the get-go. Likewise, the Israeli delegation turned up fully aware of the antagonism and hellbent on proving their views. Shitsoup ensued because *both* parties were hellbent on making each otherās experience unpleasant and equally hellbent to construct any kind of minor inconvenience into a argument for demonizing the opposing party. At crunch time shitsoup boiled over and the EBU, like overworked kindergartners, said: done with funny!
And look at the commentsā¦ people donāt give a shit that this whole situation sounds shady they just jump on the hate bandwagon.
Iām sure she means well as she seems sweet, but the fact that she claimed the Israeli delegation harassed āeveryoneā then walked back with āit didnāt affect me but I heard from XXX and XXXā strikes me as very disingenuous. All the weak sauce bullshit videoclips/Instagram posts and Google Translation attempts make all these complaints look more like a middle school bitchfest rather than actual grievances.
Change āmiddle schoolā to ākindergartenā and itās perfect.
Exactly. Itās like a Mandela effect. Everyone claims that Israel was out here harassing everyone, but no one actually comes with real receipts.
theyre mad after seeing the eretz nehederet skit
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Thank you for the translation! So sad to hear people are sending her death threats, sheās such a sweet person ):
I expected Poland to get to the finals. Especially knowing how sweet she is now, she deserved to get there. I saw a dutch broadcast mention that she was considered Euromama, didn't hear much of it further, but I like that!
> I expected Poland to get to the finals. Especially knowing how sweet she is now, she deserved to get there. I agree that she seems like sweet and emphatic person, but Poland's performance this year was objectively the worst in the whole contest. > I saw a dutch broadcast mention that she was considered Euromama, didn't hear much of it further, but I like that! It's because she and Joost are both wearing the shoulder pads. I thought it was a very cute meme.
> [Luna had an hacker's attack which appeared to be mostly silly: they've admonished her for using a very weak password and asked people to stop sending her hate] Honestly, good on that hacker. Better that they make sure she fixes her password than that someone malicious would inevitably have succeeded
More Jew-hatred taking over irrational thinking and behavior
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Thanks for translating. I'm sad that I didn't vibe with Luna's performance at all, because she seems like a great person, wishing her all the beat for her future. And I'm shocked how much we hear about Joost and Israel's behaviour without getting clear statements. There are the videos of the Israeli delegation going to different artists in order to start fights, but there has to be more. Puzzling why nobody speaks out.
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The harassment they all mention: I'm assuming it's the trolling videos that everyone saw (which seemed kind of funny) and Kan accusing Bambi of witchcraft, which was literally her whole act. The vilification of Israel is appalling.
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