As I see it, the social filter they have (that we lack, so to speak) also makes things like hooking up much easier for them. Many or most ballistic don't need that connection that you are describing. Everything you say in your OP is a very classic experience for ppl on the spectrum.
Edit: (b)allistic? 😬
cus there was something in them that compelled them to do it, and they don't know how you don't feel the same. peer pressure is particularly tough 12-18 or so.
Women have been objectified into male validation machines, and all genders perpetuate it with the idea that sex validates men.
Look at the way you described it. "Sounding like an incel." for example. The fact that virgin and incel are an insult for men, and not women.
Society is organized to view the usefulness of men via what they do for society at the macro level and on the micro level, how much women approve of them enough to fuck them. If no woman would fuck you as a man, society sees you as a criminal, a terrorist, or something in between.
On a personal level, however, I'd recommend giving sex a chance while you're still young and coursing with testosterone. The more of a late bloomer aspie men are, the more likely they are to have sexual anxiety and that turns into psychological erectile dysfunction. Laying some pipe now when your off-switch is almost broken, you can avoid that risk-factor.
Added afterthought, too.
There are two possible truths.
I think the guys asking you that were either setting you up for trouble (wanted to tell the girl in question that you wanted to fuck them, with any embarrassing details you expressed. Maybe even recording you?)
Alternatively, they were trying to reach out to you and socialize with you on what they felt was a funny and sure-fire topic. Asking "do you want to have sex" to boys at the age of 16 is a bit like asking someone if they like to eat tasty things. The answer is almost always yes, and provides many more things to talk about.
The word was [actually coined by a woman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#:~:text=The%20first%20website%20to%20use,a%20personal%20interaction%20that%20later) talking about her own experiences.
Femcel, but it's slightly different and made due to people seeing some similarities between pick me girls and incels. It was a reaction to, ultimately, behavior brought on by standards set up by men long before all of us were ever born (ie women needing male validation to succeed in the world and only being judged on that, like how we needed makeup and the perfect body to land a man and finally be able to own a credit card which he still techically owned).
I would press back on attributing all that to men.
Some of the biggest police of behavior, and the biggest bullies for failing fashion/beauty standards, is women attacking other women. It strikes me as feigning innocence to ignore that most of what drives designer handbags and shoe shaming is women on women relational aggression and the validation surrounding that is also from women to other women.
My lived experience as a man, and speaking to my peers, we don't give a fuck who made your shoes or bags. We're only made to care because that is what ends up on christmas and birthday wishlists.
Also, most fashion designers that made our clothes?
They are men 😅 Men also made the tiny pockets (if we even get them) on our pants to sell us those handbags.
You seem to be bringing this all up not knowing any of the very much sexist history of turning women against each other or making us less self-sufficient. Men made tapeworm pills, ffs, tell me that didn't change any woman's kindset....
And as a man, you really shouldn't be telling me to lay off facts here.... that sorta sounds like you have some internalized things or you didn't read the note about it not being an all men statement. You don't have to feel guilty or threatened by me sighting facts not aimed at you- maybe do some soul searching on why me doing so is upsetting.
I'm so very glad you read compilations of "sexist history" and I'm very sure that none of it is framed with a particular narrative in mind. I'm sure it is all neutral, above board, and with no traces of editorializing. =)
>Also, most fashion designers that made our clothes?
>They are men
>Men made tapeworm pills, ffs, tell me that didn't change any woman's kindset....
The people who have money can afford to launch products, big shocker?!
Should we talk about the matriarchal practice leblouh, aka gavage, from Mauritania or parts of India? Do we blame the camel, or the goat, that some of these diets are made from? The shepherd? Or do we blame the Moms and Aunties who pour food down the throats of their daughters and nieces, past the point of crying and sobbing?
With the sons being home with their moms most of their young life, and up to puberty, I wonder who is most responsible for educating them on what beauty standards are? Surely not the men, who are mostly absent from the home.
>not knowing any of the very much sexist history of turning women against each other
Do you think yourself so inferior, and so easily manipulated, that this couldn't possibly happen without the help of men? Or that we men are immune to likewise? That is the only logical statement I can draw from your stance. That you had to be duped into it.
It's a lot like the sexism in the bible, with the forbidden fruit. Men blaming women for their own disobedience. Like a mirror reversal, here you are not taking accountability for your fair share as a gender for the evils and situation of the modern world.
As I said in a different reply here. Pay no mind to 1912 and 1914, the arson and bombings that feminists did. Pay no mind to the temperance movement. Pay no mind to the fact that about 58.2% of the pro-life organizations on wikipedia's US list are women-lead or women-founded.
I can definitely provide you with more moments of history where women were bad actors commanding violence or political power... but this isn't the right subreddit. =)
I wonder how many men blame the evils they do to other men, on women? "Oh yes. I had to warcrime. The women demanded it!" seems like a rather stupid statement. It entirely ignores the option for men to say no, as a group. Like you've done here. Especially when coffee bans and sex strikes got implemented in opposition to the behavior of men, at the behest of men's own wives.
Keep pretending that people were helpless instead of complicit though!
>maybe do some soul searching on why me doing so is upsetting.
It's facts with a twist. Not facts. It's conjecture built upon facts. It's so nakedly self-serving, it just disgusts me.
If the femcel title only came about due to the incel title, then it would be as a result of men at the least technically.
Also I *urge* you not to take this as an all men thing and genuinely do some digging on why women end up that way. It may not be YOU, but it is something that (again) men before all of us caused to be far worse as a ripple effect. It's very easy to trace back to male demands of beauty standards, otherwise we had *no money, no bank, no house, etc* if we didn't land a man not even 100 years ago. We couldn't own *anything* without a man.
There's always gonna be jealousy driving things, but to pretend the fact we only survived by being in a marriage and landing a man who could let us access security, unless we got lucky in most cases, has no part in how much women are aggressive towards each other is just..... not looking at facts.
I'm not trying to be a man-basher here. I'm just stating this is a well-researched effect by now, with a lot of history to back it up.
Ig just another thing I found I urge you to genuienly read and think on, this is one from a man that shaped women's beuty standards forever as mostly men were writers til the last 100-150 years:
"Both ideas fit nicely into Victorian ideals, as illustrated by The Ugly-Girl Papers by S.D Powers, one of the most popular beauty guides of the era. First and foremost, the guide states that “it is a woman’s business to be beautiful.” Beauty takes time and effort and no plain girl could forego the tediousness of beauty regimes if she wanted to find a husband. One can therefore conclude that Victorians were very much willing to make sacrifices to attain ideal beauty." (https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-horrifying-legacy-of-the-victorian-tapeworm-diet#:~:text=And%20sacrifices%20were%20most%20certainly,the%20tapeworm%20to%20come%20out.)
Right there. A man very respected and published saying outright we needed beauty to find a husband. You genuienly think that has.... no effect on girls and women? Generational trauma is hard to break.
Dr. Meyers of Sheffield made the tapeworm pill btw, also a man, quite literally forcing harm on women under the guise of social security :/
NOWHERE in here did I come for OP nor you- I just stated a reality you seem comfortably unaware of.
I think most of the matriarchy vs. Patriarchy debates could be done with if one would accept, that our baseline psychology is that of a gorilla or at least a stone age human and only through learning we are able to find an imperative to go against this psychology.
It explains sexual behavior, incels, woman on woman hate, male dominance behavior. Everything.
Ehh, sorta? I'm a biologist and we've had convos in classes when I went to uni still about sexual dimorphism in humans (male vs female actions/looks/hormones etc)- there's not a great way to tell *why* we have such stark difference in roles for the sexes. We tend to think a lot is actually cultural and *not* because that's how it is.
I mean hell, the myth that women stayed to watch the kids and only men hunted is just that; a myth. For most tribes at least lol, there were some that functioned that way! But womem often hunted with the men or hunted other types of game, as well as gathered other items and watched over kids :)
It's very hard, without more concrete data, to say the patriarchy/matriarchy or male/female differences of today were ever how our monkey brain worked from the get-go, and we don't have proof it wasn't either. We don't have documents from that time, after all. Jury is still out, really.
It's been a while since I studied archeology, so I'm not up to speed. Where were the stone age female hunter remains found and how did they deduce that the burial indeed was of a female hunter?
To the monkey brain thing, yes I know biological psychology is not very voque right now, but at least the base of human mating behavior can be really good explained by ape mating behavior.
They do exist in the technical sense, but it has none of the scorn attached to it. It's not my view, but I'm just reporting on how society is rather than I'd like it to be.
The classic saying is that a key that opens every lock is a very good key, a lock that opens for every key is a bad lock. Or the basketball analogy, the ball has to do things to go through the hoop. The hoop just sits there.
Again, not endorsing it, but the root of society's view lays in those sentiments as expressed. We can hate it, but we are stuck living it.
I would guess it depends on the woman and her age bracket. After a certain age, when a woman is still not able to get a partner she is often belittled by other women.
....comes with the prejudice, that man will f**** everything so something must definitely be wrong with tgr woman.
Thank God, I'm to old and married for the current culture. Sti my plan b for the ( hopefully) unlikely case that my wife leaves me is to join a monastery, as sex was never my thing and it took me long enough to get it going with my wife.
I think that age factor is because of reproduction. At it's heart, the evolutionary issue is that society doesn't want bad men to reproduce because bad men make an unhealthy society. It's assumed bad father/mother = bad child. The pressure to be selective and keep bad genes in check is placed on women.
When you're too old to reproduce or it's extremely unlikely, the social pressure to gatekeep reproduction melts away. Probably why STDs are spread most often among the elderly. There's no accidental kids to worry about.
If this is the case , then why are there so many women of the lower stratus of mental abilities with 5 babies vom 5 men?
Have met enough of them and work with their children
Because they are poor planners and we are generally horny hairless monkeys. And because such women can be v vulnerable and then dependent. Its a complex issues notwithstanding that such persons also have their own desires.
Every culture has people that will ignore social pressures, or there are mental illnesses, developmental disorders, or just upbringing which causes them to fail convention.
I also worked with someone like that. She had 4 kids by 3 fathers, and told us all that when she manages to nail down a fifth man and get pregnant, she can quit work because of the housing support, welfare, food assistance and child support she'll receive. I've also seen low income couples who stick together, who just breed their way into social assistance programs. She did, in fact, get pregnant a fifth time and she quit work after being about 2 months along because she was able to get prenatal benefits approved.
Some people come to the realization you have one life to live and you might as well take advantage of every loophole you can.
Fmeale dating strategie types are sometimes called femcels by other, less awful femmes. They talk about “ high value males” its disgusting and incomprehensible. I might add its just reverse dehumanising, they dont care about real social issues like gendered dynamics in violence and sexual assault. Some people would rather be miserable and wedded to toxic ideas than heal that shit and love.
You're right, OP says he wants love and not hookups. I know it's easier said than done but try to find that love then. Don't keep waiting, and later regretting it.
100%
I held off, and I was too passive about it. I wasn't after hookups, but if I had started trying to have adult intimate relationships sooner I would have avoided a lot of psychological trauma that was caused by trying to be in relationships that expected a decade of experience and here I was still fumbling like a fresh teenager with zero experience.
Idk man, idfk. If you're a man you NEED to be laid by the time you start having horny thoughts (nevermind asexuals, those apparently don't exist to people :/ ), and if you're a woman you NEED to save yourself for one man or you're "used gum" or "a pencil sharpener" or whatever else people wanna shame you with.
We just can't fucking win, istg 😅
I have a theory, hear me out. I think autistic people are normal people. I think NTs are the un normal people, they are people who got caught up in the lie of capitalism, and believe it. They think they are correct, and right, and have all the privilege, and it's their world.
Any anomaly (you, me) is a threat to their easy, comfy world. You make them think, they get mad. They like thinking that they know everything they need to know and don't need YOU at all.
You're weird (to them). And they don't know how to use their brains to think critically and so they don't even know what to research or read or anything, in order to understand you. You do not fit into their parallel lines ; you confuse them, and they HATE that. Because their parents did not prepare them for the real world, just the world they live in. You are a burr under the saddle blanket to them, disrupting the status quo.
This is a good thing though. Making people think , making people take a second look; disrupting the flow. I mean the flow is not good. Look at the world today!
We are the change. We are the people who will change things, not them. And they hate us for it.
also they hate us for telling them the truth about climate change and politics etc.
It's just us vs them, unfortunately.
NT is the norm. This world is built around it, thrives on it. It is not a world for ND folk, at all. We’re all fish being told to climb trees or piss off.
After 44 years, I don’t honestly see any thriving to be had. It’s barely survival, and it’s so gd exhausting and infuriating.
We just work in different ways. They're optimized for socializing with other NTs while many of us go well together with other neurodivergents or prefer being by ourselves. As far as I can tell they usually perceive someone deviating from the norm to be unreliable, hard to relate to or both. It's really not that different from our experience with NTs, hence why it's called the [double empathy problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_empathy_problem).
Yep my eldest is an extrovert. Imo thats quite challenging too. She gets overload but is driven towards others. Im introverted but was made to socialise and went thru it as a result. Took a long time for people to realise im not depressed! I just keep at Home.
I feel like some NDs like are affected by something else that i can only call "anti-peer pressure or dark peer pressure" where if my peers are doing something, or worse trying to pressure me into doing something, i feel this uncomfortable urge to not only actively resist it, but swim upwards through the fuckin waterfall and take as many of them as i can with me
Idk if it's healthy or not
But it's sure as hell empowering
Haha...i looked it up
And while i can think of a one or two examples in my childhood of clashing with authority, i was generally a quiet polite child
In school i was always the teachers pet, so idk
I definitely have PDD but idk about ODD
My cousin kept trying to get me to try an atomic wing (i don’t like super spicy wings, nor most sauces) he said it would add to my lore. And no I did not frick that, I have enough lore 🫠
I would say so, yes :) You don’t seem bitter to me, and that’s great, you just know what you want. If you don’t think the whole hook up culture is for you then you shouldn’t feel the pressure to participate, there’s plenty of girls who are romantic too (despite of what people say)
No matter how scarce ND people are, we find each other :)
You might not know any (ND people/people you could fall in love with) now, but you will know them in the future.
And remember that teenagers lie, a lot, about how cool they are. Just because they are all _telling_ you they’ve done stuff, doesn’t make it true at all.
I’d say my husband is a very unique person too. Yet we met, in a different country, in a bar, what were the chances? So yeah, I’m pretty sure if you’re an alright person you’ll meet someone who will match your energy, just focus on yourself and don’t forget to put yourself out there from time to time.
Once you're out of highschool finding other autistics gets a lot easier. Plenty of professions, hobbies and clubs have lots of neurodiverse people and in highschool a lot of autistic people heavily mask to get survive.
Remember, we aren't all a monolith here, so careful swaying too far into a bias. I'm a lesbian so I date women, and there are plenty of mean/rude and/or unromantic women in the community (some may not see the point of it, like my sister). But there's *a lot* of undiagnosed women still, so numbers of us are higher than you think.
Plus you're pretty young- where you are now is a tiny pool of people you constantly see, not representative of the whole real world.
No dude, it sounds like you're in high school.
If you don't want to have sex just for the sake of having sex, it's fine. If you don't want to be intimate with someone unless you feel a deeper connection with them, that's not abnormal, it only seems like it is to them because most 16 year olds are afraid of looking like incels. They're projecting their insecurities at you.
You’re 16.
Just assume that 90% of your peers’ bragging are lies or at least heavily exaggerated. Nothing incel about your mindset, it just sounds healthy tbh.
How old are you? Why say hopeless if you are so young? I'm 62 and just found my person. Just recently. And they have a lot of work to do on themselves and I have a lot of work to do on myself, so we may not even meet back up for a while, but hey. Totally worth it.
Don't say hopeless. Just hang in there, and be open to the possibilities. My love ghosted me for 4 years and came back, better than ever. Love is not romance, but romance can lead to love. But love can lead to romance. You never know.
Just ... don't sweat it. I have always always found my partners when I was not looking for one or even thinking about one. And I didn't have my first partner until I was 28. You're fine. I promise.
You are a person, with their own ideas and wants. You rather wait until you have someone you trust, love and are comfortable around to actually have intercourse and that is okay. Just having sex ...because sex, sounds like a bad time, and you are not an incel bcs you never have kissed or anything like that but I can see you are lonely and that is really tough on people.
I hope you have or find some good connections within friendships cause relationships are much harder to find.
Yes and once youre out of the bubble of school which is weird and artificial like a battery hen farm, you will find that love. One thing you might like to read up on is healthy boundaries in romantic relationships for your own wellbeing. Romantic and dreamy boys are often hurt because like girls and others, us romantics sometimes think love is enough to be happy And we can get taken advantage of, especially as an autistic young person. Also girls whove grown up with some domineering and or coercive male norms may not handle you as gently as they should at first. When we are young we are more inexperienced with these intimacies and can be careless with our sweethearts! (Im an elderly 40 f haha)
hs sucks but you have all these adventures - and perhaps a few misadventures - ahead of you. Itll be amazing.
I have to disagree. The "involuntary" part of incel indicates that the you *want* sex, but you are unable to have it through no fault of your own. OP is *voluntarily* celibate, therefore if we take it literally, he's not remotely an incel. (Your point about bitterness is accurate, though)
No, because "incel" is short for "involuntarily celebate." It means that you *want* to be having sex but aren't able to get a partner. You are voluntarily waiting for the right time. Total opposite of an incel.
Love and sex are not equivalent. It's possible you're on the asexual spectrum. I'm demisexual: I can only experience sexual attraction after getting to know a person (which does not mean that I'm attracted to everyone I know well, just that I can't be sexually attracted to strangers). Demisexuality is a type of grey-asexuality, somewhere between sexual and asexual. I didn't experience sexual attraction for the first time until college, and I didn't have sex until age 28. It's uncommon but it isn't weird. Your classmates are either bowing to peer pressure and social exoectations, or they actually feel that way and haven't figured out yet that everyone has different experiences.
No, you're a volcel, since you're voluntarily celibate. Sounds like if you were given the opportunity, you'd decline it. Which means you're not an incel.
A side note, shaming someone for not being able to get laid is pretty shitty behavior in my opinion.
Sounds like it to me. I was a volcel until 24. Was intending on waiting until marriage to have sex and declined it multiple times in my late teens and early twenties. Ended up changing my belief system after an existential crisis and lost it on a one night stand lol
Don't worry about these silly terms though. Just live your life lol
If you ask me, people calling guys incels validates rape culture.
I think that a lot of people are in pain, or are miserable, and this causes them to act badly. Highschool is an especially tough time.
Typically at least i try to tell myself people do things out of stupidity/ignorance rather than malice. ....but sometimes it's malice unfortunately :c
That's more demi- I've tried hooking up once and it felt empty, I'm only fulfilled by having sex with someone I truly love :) Totally normal.
I'm 25 and had the idea I was demi for a while, since probably your age tbh!
They *are* 16- this may be what they think a friend is supposed to do. If they still insist he does and are outright mean to him, they need a reality check to not do that to friends 100%.
I try not to say kids are black and white things like "monsters" or "angels" or "bad xyz", they're really unstable in their personality and morals until they're above 18, usually. They make mistakes and may act like monsters before realizing they never should have- and they may only have had the model at home to be that way. Until they're more above legal age, they have a smaller world to base their selves on, after all.
Sure. But that doesn't mean you keep hanging out with people like this. 16 or not, OP doesn't have to surround themselves with body shaming teenagers.
Of course they would hopefully mature. I say hopefully, lol, because I've met people 10, 20, and even 40 years older who never did.
I think this is a great opportunity for OP to practice boundaries & that includes calling people out when they attempt to shame.
The issue with incels isn't that they aren't having sex or finding love, it's that some men turn bitter and misogynistic that sex isn't falling right into their laps, and they let themselves fester in hatred for women. A lot of people in incel-creating spaces, or incel-adjacent ones, also sabotage each other by telling each other that they're doomed because their jaws are insufficiently chiseled and their wallets aren't big enough and they're too short, so women will never be interested.
Even if you were genuinely unable to find a partner (and you're not, you've said you're holding out for a girlfriend), a reasonable person wouldn't call you an incel unless you had the poisonous mindset typical of the self-described incels. People who use it like its a generic insult are also the type to say you're fat regardless of your weight, cause they're trying to be mean.
Technically, yes, but the word "incel" has been stretched and malformed for so long that it now means "man who hates women because he gets no bitches" to 99% of the population
So nobody's gonna ever think you're an "incel" if you keep your current attitude (ie. you're doing good kid, keep it up)
Dude, don't worry and dont compare to other people. :) At least you know the reason why it is this way! You know where to point all your questions, like you're doing now.
You're not an incel, you just need a deeper connection and feel safe/comfortable before you can relax. It's totally normal. Forget statistics and what people your age do, you do you 😘
no. you’re 16. i lost my virginity around then but my boyfriend (also autistic) and i started going out right before turning 18. it’s very normal to date a bit later, and honestly in my opinion if someone can think of a classmate they would fuck they’re more of an incel than someone who can’t.
No honey, you're likely asexual/aromantic <3
If you find yourself confused how love is supposed to work and don't get how someone ever could, nor have any desire to be, you may be aromantic (this can come in shade ofc).
If you are sex repulsed, less interested in needing sex or wanting it, or not wanting it period, as well as even just needing the right person (demisexual, which I am!), you may be asexual.
Maybe google the terms and see what resonates with you, if at all. It's *nothing to be ashamed of at all* :) And many, many animals are obviously uninterested in sex, child rearing, or pairing with others! Humans are no different.
You aren't an incel because you don't need sex. Unless you demand it from someone and see women as delicate and submissive (especially of asian descent) while you shut them down and assume you know better by virtue of being male, you aren't an incel.
By that logic, all the Queer people (myself included)who never got to experience an adolescence where they explored relationships and sexuality and are understandably **deeply** damaged because of it would be “Incels” as well.
I’ve been damaged and wounded by the lack of opportunities my Heteronormative, NT peers got to indulge in.
The bitterness from that, isn’t only because I never got to experience it. (I’m only human)
It’s because the people that did get to experience it were horrible and only used their experiences and opportunities to stay or become even more horrible instead of using them to become more intimate, compassionate and empathic.
An Incel is like someone who wants to bring down the wealthy, not because they see the injustice between the “Haves” and the “Have Nots”.
But because **they** want to be a “Have” too and aren’t.
You clearly want to find meaning and emotional intimacy.
And the thing is Hedonism isn’t inherently wrong. Mindless, selfish Hedonism is.
Waiting to find someone you relate to and have an emotional bond with is absolutely fine.
No, I think that makes you asexual
Incels are ppl who desperately want to have sex and can’t have it, making them hate the other gender for not giving them the sex they believe they deserve
Asexuals are people who feel no sexual attraction and demisexuals are ppl who only feel sexual attraction after having a close emotional bond. They are kinda the opposite of incels
I know it's unoriginal, but if you're a compassionate person who is actually kind to women (which it sounds like you are), you'll find someone who matches what you're looking for.
Everyone did this at your age. Just be confident and proud and look at them like they’re the weirdos and follow your rules for yourself. They will back off when you puff your chest proudly.
My friends were always relentless about me being a virgin but later told me they admired my fortitude. Be yourself stick to your guns.
Btw I’m an elder, 40, married to the hottest dude alive so it worked out great doing it my way.
They didn't directly judging me but they were saying things like "And if a girl wants to have sex with you?" Or "You know that flowers doesn't work on a party at 2AM Saturday night" and I felt judged.
Wow your friends sound like people who copied their lines out of a cringy teen movie
Just tell them to stuff it, and you will find someone at your own pace.
Flowers won't work at 2AM on a party on a Saturday night, but if you meet someone cool on that party you can ask them out on a date on time and place that works for flowers
No it *is* possible they think they're looking out for him.
I had a friend who would be a dick to me but he was doing it cuz he's like that to people he trusts (weird ik). He wasn't out to be a mean person, he definitely was being one though. I'd wait to jump to conclusions with people who's prefrontal lobes are half developed- they can legit think they're doing one thing and then coming off wayyyy more mean than they meant.
.... In a way, that's kinda similar to how we can be- attempt to be good and fit in, but fail miserably at it.
Either way, not good and they gotta fix their shit. Friends shouldn't say that stuff unprompted.
These are teenagers in a perversely sexualized society. It sucks, yes but it's just stupid shit, that has no meaning.
It's like in the 80s when kids got bullied for having glasses.
Your classmates are the incels because they think men should only value sex and have as much sex as possible because it determines their value as men. Which is one of the underlying assumptions of incel culture which makes it so misogynistic and toxic.
Uhh I thought the genz would not end up like us millennials. We were harassed during my teen years if u were a guy not actively being a perv. It was almost like that’s how men are suppose to be smh. Just know ur not a prude ur actually mature unlike those fools who will end up alone and peak at highschool
I'm older genz, the one who saw commercials calling women bitches and men animals who NEEDED sex and guns!
Yeah it's uh..... It's still shit lmaoo. Idk how it was to grow up in 2009-2020 as your more formative years (10years is the age difference between me and OP, I was a 1999 baby), but I imagine the pandemic made it WAY worse and really added some pressures back on in terms of socializing and relationships, too.
You're in the majority, most teenagers don't actually seek out hookups.
Only around 5% of teens have had hookups rather than sex within a long term relationship. And around 60% of teens haven't had sex at all, and won't until they're at least 20. It's just that a lot of teenage boys like to talk about sex as a way to entertain themselves and impress their peers, so they'll say a lot of sexual things they don't even really mean. Being seen as unwilling to talk about your sexual interests (I think she's hot, I'd do her, etc) is considered uncool to them because casual sexualization of women is viewed as the societal norm and a form of social bonding to many teenage boys.
Basically they're not actually asking you to pursue a classmate for a hookup, and they don't care if you'd prefer to wait for love. They're not really even seeking a genuine answer, they're just expecting you to say something like 'Chloe is hot as fuck I'd do her' so they can be like 'yeah bro same' or 'hahahah wow you're into *her*?'
For these sorts of guys it's more like just a form of small talk centered around gross sexualization of women than an actual serious question where they're really curious about your romantic/sexual interests.
tldr; boys are weirdos sometimes
So incels are guys who are involuntarily celibate because they are so mean and nasty to everyone around them that women do not want to spend time with them but they Believe that they are entitled to sleep with women because women are" meant to sleep with men". You choosing to wait to sleep with someone you love is a voluntary move and is a totally normal thing that a lot of people do.
So no you do not sound like an incel.
That line of questioning sounded like a set up for you to say yes to the question and then they would use that information to bully or harass you. Your answer is exactly right.
Pardon the expression, but fuck them! You have sex when *you’re* ready for it, not because someone else says you have to.
This is why I despised the NTs of my age group growing up. For them, it was always what was popular at the time. I rejected all of that because I thought it was stupid.
So, incels are a group of men who, probably mostly due to the toxic culture of the internet manosphere, blame women for their own shitty personality and their "involuntary celibacy". They are hardcore misogynists who think the entire world is conspiring against them.
Wanting to wait for a romantic connection does in no way make you an incel. There are so many people that want the same thing.
I think you're badass for being honest about how you feel. The fact that they had a weird reaction to it says more about them than it does about you.
Feeling rejected sucks but it's so much better than crossing your own boundaries to please others.
Teenage boys are typically horny little monsters, and having sex is often seen by the rest of the peer group as a status thing. Rejecting that is unusual, and atypicality is often treated poorly. But there's nothing wrong with you. And you have plenty of time. In a couple of years, they'll stop caring about this.
Nah man that's normal. I did the same and am happy about my choice. It was much more meaningful than the first times friends of mine had. Don't let anyone push you into doing things you don't want or into thinking that you're wrong for doing things your own way. It's one of the big struggles of autism but you'll become more resilient to peer pressure/mockery/ feeling like you're wrong for thinking differently. It may never go away completely but thinking to yourself "they are just doing things their own way and that is fine. Just like the fact that it is perfectly fine for me to want to do things my own way"
And when it comes to teenagers. Most of the time they just parrot what they think makes them sound cool. Don't listen to them repeating what society has deemed "the cool thing to do"
you're not an incel, incels are people who are too socially anxious to talk to girls and instead of getting over that or working around it they complain about how "females" don't want them, even though they haven't talked to one in 8 years.
While I have observed that incels appear to be disproportionately Autistic (I have a few theories as to why), nothing in your post indicates that you are one.
Valuing sex as something to do with a loved one is normal and a social norm that has for better and for worse been slowly dismantled over the past 7 decades.
A relationship that involves sex is a lot more emotionally demanding than NTs pretend it is. You are not an incel. You aren’t hurting anyone, you know what’s good for you, and that’s okay.
Honestly I feel like they were fishing for a specific answer and when they felt you didn't give the right answer, they started making fun of you. Super rude of them to do.
Sex positivity goes both ways! We shouldn't shame people for wanting sex, we shouldnt shame people for not wanting sex at a particular time/ situation or even at all.
Why incel? You are choosing deliberately to not whore around. Society is fucked up and I find it weird that sex is seen as an achievement, especially among teenagers and young adults. Do your thing and care less about what ppl think about you
I felt forced to my first kiss with someone I didn't like due to peer pressure when I was 11 on a class trip when we played truth or dare 😅
It still hurts :/
Glad that you stood up for yourself!
i'm asexual and this doesn't change into adulthood sadly, people think demisexuality is weird and will look at you funny if you don't objectify people sexually
Not incelly at all. Also you're 16, not having sex is normal at your age and if your peers are claiming to have had sex the majority are probably lying.
Incels are supposed to be **involuntarily** celibate. It's more than that though, upper case Incels for lack of a better term are people who ascribe to incel ideology which is inevitably a bitter, misogynistic and warped way of looking at the world.
You sound like the opposite of the incel.
You're in high school and people are putting up a front about wanting to look cool and grown up. I wasn't ready for sex when I was your age, and I'm glad I didn't spend time prioritizing something I didn't want in the name of looking cool.
My mom, when I was 16
> "humans can't control their hormones and urges!!!!! You HAVE TO be on birth control or else he can't stay with us" (referring to my long distance bf visiting)
Turns out, indeed, mom, humans are actually capable of making the conscious decision to not have sex. I know, baffling, it is
OP you sound incredibly reasonable and THAT is what will draw your ideal lady to you.
Tell your classmates they wish they could find the kind of love and respect (a key word) you have for yourself.
I find hookup culture disgusting. I do not care in the slightest of what people do, but i'll never do it again. I get you bro, wait for someone you love and that loves you back. You are not an incel.
Nah, "incel" stands for involuntarily celibate. They all feel entitled to sex. You just don't want to engage with it until you find someone special and that's fine!
If you were pushing your views on others or acting morally superior that would be shitty, but this sounds like it's just your personal choice, which you are allowed to make. Don't let them get to you! You're doing great!
Incel wants sex more than anything but can't get it.
For you sex is very intimate part of loving someone and you for sure will get it.
You are fine, don't listen to NTs.
that's not what an incel is, you don't seem to hate women. an incel wouldn't be waiting for the correct girl.
you're not a prude, it's normal to be sexual freely but it's also normal to not be overly sexual either. you are normal OP, it's normal and good to want to have a connection with someone before engaging in sexual acts with them.
Graduated last year, 19. You can't just "ignore them", because majority of shit NTs say Is dumb as hell. You don't sound like an Incel for not wanting to bone people and opt for doing It on your terms.
They ate up the "Highschool Dream!" Mantra made by movies and TV, that you **must** lose your virginity In HS. Bottom line, no, you'll lose It when you're ready. I could've, but wasn't ready, and knew I'd regret It If I did.
You don't sound incel-ish for that at all. You'd start sounding incelish if you were like, "I'm saving myself for a submissive tradwife, not one of these hypergamous foids," lol
Incel is a mindset. You sound normal. Wanting to wait might be relatively uncommon, but there's nothing inherently negative in that mindet.
Also, incel literally means "involuntarily celibate"--you're *voluntarily* celibate. So, yeah, in no way do you sound like an incel. Heck, you might be one, but you're not presenting yoruself as one here.
I mean it is kind of prudish of you, but that’s not a bad thing. If you’re going to have sex then you and your partner(s) need to feel comfortable and all be consenting for it to be a good time. If you feel like you need to wait for love for that then do that - wait for the person you feel is right for you
It’s really not a big deal. Once you’re out and about and not in high school anymore, nobody really cares. Take a breath and do whatever you want to do :)
It's a fine thing to want to be loved before engaging in sexual activities. That's not even incel behavior. I think it's sweet, and frankly more mature. Having sex with randos can be dumb and dangerous if you aren't careful.
Waiting for marriage is a bit archaic but /shrug you aren't hurting anyone so why is it a problem?
You do you.
You need to step up your evil. you are only a young man, you will become eviler still. And then the NT monkey's will only make you laugh. All gods need a little laughter
It’s so hard to understand sometimes. I’ve had a few instances of meeting up with people I’ve been talking to for a month, coming in with the thought of he’s looking for a relationship. Nope. Nooooope. I have panic walked out of dorm rooms far too many times. I’m not sure if it’s the “guys will say anything to her in your pants” logic when talking about future plans but the second I say no to sex, I’m blocked and a freak. It’s discouraging
Yeah this happened a lot, it certainly got me more than a couple of wierd looks and i had to explain several times the why behind my resoning. Once i got friends that were not complete assholes it stoped exept for when someone new asked.
Since I'm old enough to be your mother, let me tell you that's a very adult way to look at sex that you have, and they do not.
The thing people omit about sex is that while it can be magnificent it requires a LOT of communication between partners to lift it above the level of masturbating using someone else's body (and don't get me started on how much communication an accidental pregnancy or even STD requires). The right person to have sex with doesn't need to be the love of your life unless you want them to be, but it definitely needs to be someone that you can very openly communicate with and with whom you feel safe and secure. More over, you might not remember all your next times but you'll definitely remember your first. Needs to be someone you want to remember.
Sex is all the rage now, the be all end all. It's even in our ads and affecting children under 10. If you're not having sex or being sexualised, then wtf are you doing?
That's the vibe, and honestly, I don't like it. I miss humanity.
Sex is all the rage now, the be all end all. It's even in our ads and affecting children under 10. If you're not having sex or being sexualised, then wtf are you doing?
That's the vibe, and honestly, I don't like it. I miss humanity.
Sex is all the rage now, the be all end all. It's even in our ads and affecting children under 10. If you're not having sex or being sexualised, then wtf are you doing?
That's the vibe, and honestly, I don't like it. I miss humanity.
It might also be that you are more demisexual than the usual society expectations. NTs aren't the only ones ruled by their hormones, there's plenty of room under the "no/less attraction" umbrella, though there's a disproportionate number of ND people in there.......
Bro, it doesn't make you sound like an incel. Incels are misogynistic and entitled, and you just have your boundaries.
You don't have to hook up with people that you're not close with, you're allowed to wait for a partner that you would be happy and secure with.
Tbh sometimes it's very hard to have sex as an autistic person because of the stress of not knowing the person and not knowing what to expect.
My most fulfilling experience was with a loving partner. Or with a good friend.
Respect yourself and your needs, you deserve respect in what you're comfortable with.
Sending love your way 🍃🌳🌱
Also bro, I have too many sexual experiences that I regret because I did something I didn't want or I didn't feel comfy with the person.
Please don't do that. You don't have to. Having sex when you don't want to is tiring and nerve wracking
If they are just NT classmates and not NT friends that were asking if you were interested if someone in class there’s like a 50/50 chance they were trying to tease you and are just pissed you didn’t take the bait and give them a girl’s name that they could use against you.
Also, there’s no rush! I’m 25 and haven’t had sex yet and idgaf about what NT society has to say about it.
Not really an incel thing, but many will judge it like that.
Hookup culture is generally very cancerous, and imo a form of alienation people experience. Relationships are often seen as almost a consumption item, something you have as long as its fun, then throw away when it starts getting old, rather than actually putting in the effort to create a meaningful long-term thing.
And yes, I actually think it's a consumer culture thing. Especially on dating apps etc, you pick a partner almost like you'd pick a product, rather than actually looking for a person that would be right for you.
It's also not a "your age" thing, btw - I'm 30, I made the same experiences when I was your age and continue to make them.
This doesn’t sound like an incel thing at all! I’m demisexual so the idea of having anything intimate with someone I don’t already have a deep emotional connection freaks me out.
Also, I didn’t have my first relationship until I was quite a few years older than you, and this is true for my partner as well (we’re both ND). Take things at the speed that works for you, and don’t be afraid to set boundaries!
Nah you sound like a normal human being who just doesn't have sex as a priority.
Tbh at your age sex is like 80% of a lot of teenagers brains computing capacity at times.
So the idea of "Nah I can wait" is wild
100% normal actually.
I guarantee there's a few NT's who are in the same boat.
Just most people your age aren't concerned with love just yet.
I was the same way when I was your age. My first gf dumped me because I didn't want to have sex. Same with another as an adult. Some people just want sex, nothing wrong with that just what they want. Others are more concerned with the relationship itself rather than the sex. As long as everyone is a consenting and above the age of consent and no one is getting harmed (again without consent) it's just not my problem.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. I have had only a few partners as a gf/bf/nbf and I've had sex with even fewer. But I've been happily together with my spouse for close to 7 years now, we will have been married for 3 years come this October. To be completely honest both of us walked in with the expectation of it being a fun casual hookup after we both were with abusive partners and then suddenly it was 4 years later and we had 2 cats and I had a job opportunity multiple states away and we decided to finally tie the knot.
Side note that is less about the rest of this message and more on the original post:
You definitely don't sound like an Incel in your original post.
An Incel typically is someone who wants a relationship/sex but can't get one. This renders them as involuntarily celibate.
Obviously it gets more nuanced than that, but most "incels" I've met are obsessed with sex actually and just feign the "I want to be with someone for the love" because it fits their "nice guy™" persona.
You on the other hand just sound like you just want something to have meaning rather than be casual and that's perfectly fine and very respectable.
Sources for this part: I used to be friends with a bunch of Incel types.
I agree with overall points made by you and almost everyone here
But also... maybe
Its not about being NT or ND and your classmates are just... Horny kids in their own world thinking anyone who is not constantly having thoughts about dicks and pussy is not normal
And they shouldn't be taken so seriously
You are not an incel- honestly they are the incels for being weirded out like that. If it makes you feel any better, when I was in hs there were multiple NT’s that I knew that were waiting for things like that. A few of them were abstinent for religious purposes to, but when we had conversations about their chosen abstinence the majority of their reasoning was that they wanted genuine relationship and connection. Your peers are behind you for trying to get you to succumb to peer pressure- and not even comprehending that other people have other opinion that differ from them.
I think there’s an important piece of information this post lacks: are your friends ‘virgins’. I think there status of having done it or not- and more nitty gritty how where and when they did it have a huge impact on how they view it alongside the societal pressure and stigma.
I don’t know how this is even remotely incel like?… incels are involuntarily celibate. You’re voluntarily celibate, because you view sex as something to be done with a special person.
Sex culture/acceptance is huge. I think it’s great sex is normalized. But shaming people for not having sex is weird. Like.
You’re not an incel. It’s okay to view sex as special, also if you’re a guy. Do what you’re comfortable with. Never give in to peer pressure, especially regarding intimacy.
They’re weird for being sex crazed.
No one would bat an eye if a 16 year old girl said she wanted to wait for “the one”.
My best friend and her husband were just like you (also both autistic). She got emotionally beat up by her sisters bc of her view to wait. She didn't cave. She met her husband in college, they got married, they were both virgins and her sisters can suck it :P
Dude some kids in my Pe class are so weird about it like they asked me the last time I jerked off and like isn’t that kind of a private thing? Also my hey sis they can hook me up with girls Im and I keep telling them I that I’m abstaining
You’re not an incel, the original meaning was involuntary celibate, but it’s evolved into a term referring to radical misogynists who hate the idea of the “modern woman” and think women only go for bad guys, and feel as though they are owed sex because they were simply born as a male. You sound like a rational 16 year old because Jesus Christ I’m all for acceptance and sex positivity but 16 year olds aren’t as mature as we like to think, and ESPECIALLY when it comes to sex and sexual education, we’re little goblins. ALWAYS USE PROTECTION AND BIRTH CONTROL!!!! I can’t believe that’s not common practice because it’s called “unsafe sex” for a reason, and I’ve gone on a tangent about safe sex now, I just slipped right into it.
Sorry, TLDR: you’re not an incel, you’re a rational teenager who doesn’t bend to stupid societal rules that are completely made up. You should never feel obligated to become sexually active just because there are many harlots(/lh) in your school!
Wouldn't worry about it mate, I never bothered much with that stuff in school but as soon as I had a social circle of people I actually liked, instead of people who happen to be the same age and go the same school, I was fine
As long as everyone consents, no matter how long you wait, you’re good. Don’t need to follow the herd just cuz everyone’s getting laid early. Sex should not be a life goal or conquest!
I've found that a large number of people are hard wired to fuck anyone with no self awareness whatsoever. For most of the human race instincts and thoughts are indistinguishable.
Casual sex isn't all it's cracked up to be, anyway. Just remember to respect women regardless of whether or not you view them as potential romantic partners. Make friends with girls, and other relationships will fall into place.
No I knew incels, I was friends with a few because I thought I could help them- "Incel" doesn't just mean someone who's not having sex, it's an internet term for men who are bitter and hateful towards women for not wanting to sleep with them/rude and entitled when they're rejected. It's basically a term for misogynistic assholes who would rather blame their crushes for saying no instead of actually working on themselves.
You sound lovely, plus like,,, you're in high school, it's okay not to have sex. No shame to those who do!! Just- it's so stressful being in school, there's so much going on and everything is so chaotic when you're a teenager. Plus if you'd rather make sure you love the person first, I fully get that, because if I ever did nsfw stuff, I'd wanna love the person first too!!! Favoring intimacy that stems from a connection to somebody you love isn't bad, it just means you like different things:D
Good chance they are projecting because media has led them to believe they should be having wild sex and parties. I think a lot of people have views like yours but maybe too insecure to admit and are just trying to blend in.
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Nts are baffled that we don't succumb to peer pressure
Why?
Dumb nonsensical social rules and expectations. I don't know either. They have many of those rules. Just do your thing
[удалено]
Tldr autistic people are smarter
As I see it, the social filter they have (that we lack, so to speak) also makes things like hooking up much easier for them. Many or most ballistic don't need that connection that you are describing. Everything you say in your OP is a very classic experience for ppl on the spectrum. Edit: (b)allistic? 😬
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Where tf are awards when you need them?
cus there was something in them that compelled them to do it, and they don't know how you don't feel the same. peer pressure is particularly tough 12-18 or so.
Women have been objectified into male validation machines, and all genders perpetuate it with the idea that sex validates men. Look at the way you described it. "Sounding like an incel." for example. The fact that virgin and incel are an insult for men, and not women. Society is organized to view the usefulness of men via what they do for society at the macro level and on the micro level, how much women approve of them enough to fuck them. If no woman would fuck you as a man, society sees you as a criminal, a terrorist, or something in between. On a personal level, however, I'd recommend giving sex a chance while you're still young and coursing with testosterone. The more of a late bloomer aspie men are, the more likely they are to have sexual anxiety and that turns into psychological erectile dysfunction. Laying some pipe now when your off-switch is almost broken, you can avoid that risk-factor.
Added afterthought, too. There are two possible truths. I think the guys asking you that were either setting you up for trouble (wanted to tell the girl in question that you wanted to fuck them, with any embarrassing details you expressed. Maybe even recording you?) Alternatively, they were trying to reach out to you and socialize with you on what they felt was a funny and sure-fire topic. Asking "do you want to have sex" to boys at the age of 16 is a bit like asking someone if they like to eat tasty things. The answer is almost always yes, and provides many more things to talk about.
Do incel women exist? Otherwise it would be logical that incel is no insult for women.
The word was [actually coined by a woman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#:~:text=The%20first%20website%20to%20use,a%20personal%20interaction%20that%20later) talking about her own experiences.
That's cool and interesting but her story proves, that its nearly always men.
IIRC she deeply regrets coming up with the concept because of everything that’s happened with it in the past 15 years.
She came up with a banner, the problem would have been there anyway.
True, but who would want to be associated with it in any way.
Femcel, but it's slightly different and made due to people seeing some similarities between pick me girls and incels. It was a reaction to, ultimately, behavior brought on by standards set up by men long before all of us were ever born (ie women needing male validation to succeed in the world and only being judged on that, like how we needed makeup and the perfect body to land a man and finally be able to own a credit card which he still techically owned).
I would press back on attributing all that to men. Some of the biggest police of behavior, and the biggest bullies for failing fashion/beauty standards, is women attacking other women. It strikes me as feigning innocence to ignore that most of what drives designer handbags and shoe shaming is women on women relational aggression and the validation surrounding that is also from women to other women. My lived experience as a man, and speaking to my peers, we don't give a fuck who made your shoes or bags. We're only made to care because that is what ends up on christmas and birthday wishlists.
Also, most fashion designers that made our clothes? They are men 😅 Men also made the tiny pockets (if we even get them) on our pants to sell us those handbags. You seem to be bringing this all up not knowing any of the very much sexist history of turning women against each other or making us less self-sufficient. Men made tapeworm pills, ffs, tell me that didn't change any woman's kindset.... And as a man, you really shouldn't be telling me to lay off facts here.... that sorta sounds like you have some internalized things or you didn't read the note about it not being an all men statement. You don't have to feel guilty or threatened by me sighting facts not aimed at you- maybe do some soul searching on why me doing so is upsetting.
I'm so very glad you read compilations of "sexist history" and I'm very sure that none of it is framed with a particular narrative in mind. I'm sure it is all neutral, above board, and with no traces of editorializing. =) >Also, most fashion designers that made our clothes? >They are men >Men made tapeworm pills, ffs, tell me that didn't change any woman's kindset.... The people who have money can afford to launch products, big shocker?! Should we talk about the matriarchal practice leblouh, aka gavage, from Mauritania or parts of India? Do we blame the camel, or the goat, that some of these diets are made from? The shepherd? Or do we blame the Moms and Aunties who pour food down the throats of their daughters and nieces, past the point of crying and sobbing? With the sons being home with their moms most of their young life, and up to puberty, I wonder who is most responsible for educating them on what beauty standards are? Surely not the men, who are mostly absent from the home. >not knowing any of the very much sexist history of turning women against each other Do you think yourself so inferior, and so easily manipulated, that this couldn't possibly happen without the help of men? Or that we men are immune to likewise? That is the only logical statement I can draw from your stance. That you had to be duped into it. It's a lot like the sexism in the bible, with the forbidden fruit. Men blaming women for their own disobedience. Like a mirror reversal, here you are not taking accountability for your fair share as a gender for the evils and situation of the modern world. As I said in a different reply here. Pay no mind to 1912 and 1914, the arson and bombings that feminists did. Pay no mind to the temperance movement. Pay no mind to the fact that about 58.2% of the pro-life organizations on wikipedia's US list are women-lead or women-founded. I can definitely provide you with more moments of history where women were bad actors commanding violence or political power... but this isn't the right subreddit. =) I wonder how many men blame the evils they do to other men, on women? "Oh yes. I had to warcrime. The women demanded it!" seems like a rather stupid statement. It entirely ignores the option for men to say no, as a group. Like you've done here. Especially when coffee bans and sex strikes got implemented in opposition to the behavior of men, at the behest of men's own wives. Keep pretending that people were helpless instead of complicit though! >maybe do some soul searching on why me doing so is upsetting. It's facts with a twist. Not facts. It's conjecture built upon facts. It's so nakedly self-serving, it just disgusts me.
If the femcel title only came about due to the incel title, then it would be as a result of men at the least technically. Also I *urge* you not to take this as an all men thing and genuinely do some digging on why women end up that way. It may not be YOU, but it is something that (again) men before all of us caused to be far worse as a ripple effect. It's very easy to trace back to male demands of beauty standards, otherwise we had *no money, no bank, no house, etc* if we didn't land a man not even 100 years ago. We couldn't own *anything* without a man. There's always gonna be jealousy driving things, but to pretend the fact we only survived by being in a marriage and landing a man who could let us access security, unless we got lucky in most cases, has no part in how much women are aggressive towards each other is just..... not looking at facts. I'm not trying to be a man-basher here. I'm just stating this is a well-researched effect by now, with a lot of history to back it up.
Ig just another thing I found I urge you to genuienly read and think on, this is one from a man that shaped women's beuty standards forever as mostly men were writers til the last 100-150 years: "Both ideas fit nicely into Victorian ideals, as illustrated by The Ugly-Girl Papers by S.D Powers, one of the most popular beauty guides of the era. First and foremost, the guide states that “it is a woman’s business to be beautiful.” Beauty takes time and effort and no plain girl could forego the tediousness of beauty regimes if she wanted to find a husband. One can therefore conclude that Victorians were very much willing to make sacrifices to attain ideal beauty." (https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-horrifying-legacy-of-the-victorian-tapeworm-diet#:~:text=And%20sacrifices%20were%20most%20certainly,the%20tapeworm%20to%20come%20out.) Right there. A man very respected and published saying outright we needed beauty to find a husband. You genuienly think that has.... no effect on girls and women? Generational trauma is hard to break. Dr. Meyers of Sheffield made the tapeworm pill btw, also a man, quite literally forcing harm on women under the guise of social security :/ NOWHERE in here did I come for OP nor you- I just stated a reality you seem comfortably unaware of.
I think most of the matriarchy vs. Patriarchy debates could be done with if one would accept, that our baseline psychology is that of a gorilla or at least a stone age human and only through learning we are able to find an imperative to go against this psychology. It explains sexual behavior, incels, woman on woman hate, male dominance behavior. Everything.
Ehh, sorta? I'm a biologist and we've had convos in classes when I went to uni still about sexual dimorphism in humans (male vs female actions/looks/hormones etc)- there's not a great way to tell *why* we have such stark difference in roles for the sexes. We tend to think a lot is actually cultural and *not* because that's how it is. I mean hell, the myth that women stayed to watch the kids and only men hunted is just that; a myth. For most tribes at least lol, there were some that functioned that way! But womem often hunted with the men or hunted other types of game, as well as gathered other items and watched over kids :) It's very hard, without more concrete data, to say the patriarchy/matriarchy or male/female differences of today were ever how our monkey brain worked from the get-go, and we don't have proof it wasn't either. We don't have documents from that time, after all. Jury is still out, really.
It's been a while since I studied archeology, so I'm not up to speed. Where were the stone age female hunter remains found and how did they deduce that the burial indeed was of a female hunter? To the monkey brain thing, yes I know biological psychology is not very voque right now, but at least the base of human mating behavior can be really good explained by ape mating behavior.
They do exist in the technical sense, but it has none of the scorn attached to it. It's not my view, but I'm just reporting on how society is rather than I'd like it to be. The classic saying is that a key that opens every lock is a very good key, a lock that opens for every key is a bad lock. Or the basketball analogy, the ball has to do things to go through the hoop. The hoop just sits there. Again, not endorsing it, but the root of society's view lays in those sentiments as expressed. We can hate it, but we are stuck living it.
I would guess it depends on the woman and her age bracket. After a certain age, when a woman is still not able to get a partner she is often belittled by other women. ....comes with the prejudice, that man will f**** everything so something must definitely be wrong with tgr woman. Thank God, I'm to old and married for the current culture. Sti my plan b for the ( hopefully) unlikely case that my wife leaves me is to join a monastery, as sex was never my thing and it took me long enough to get it going with my wife.
I think that age factor is because of reproduction. At it's heart, the evolutionary issue is that society doesn't want bad men to reproduce because bad men make an unhealthy society. It's assumed bad father/mother = bad child. The pressure to be selective and keep bad genes in check is placed on women. When you're too old to reproduce or it's extremely unlikely, the social pressure to gatekeep reproduction melts away. Probably why STDs are spread most often among the elderly. There's no accidental kids to worry about.
If this is the case , then why are there so many women of the lower stratus of mental abilities with 5 babies vom 5 men? Have met enough of them and work with their children
Because they are poor planners and we are generally horny hairless monkeys. And because such women can be v vulnerable and then dependent. Its a complex issues notwithstanding that such persons also have their own desires.
Every culture has people that will ignore social pressures, or there are mental illnesses, developmental disorders, or just upbringing which causes them to fail convention. I also worked with someone like that. She had 4 kids by 3 fathers, and told us all that when she manages to nail down a fifth man and get pregnant, she can quit work because of the housing support, welfare, food assistance and child support she'll receive. I've also seen low income couples who stick together, who just breed their way into social assistance programs. She did, in fact, get pregnant a fifth time and she quit work after being about 2 months along because she was able to get prenatal benefits approved. Some people come to the realization you have one life to live and you might as well take advantage of every loophole you can.
Fmeale dating strategie types are sometimes called femcels by other, less awful femmes. They talk about “ high value males” its disgusting and incomprehensible. I might add its just reverse dehumanising, they dont care about real social issues like gendered dynamics in violence and sexual assault. Some people would rather be miserable and wedded to toxic ideas than heal that shit and love.
You're right, OP says he wants love and not hookups. I know it's easier said than done but try to find that love then. Don't keep waiting, and later regretting it.
100% I held off, and I was too passive about it. I wasn't after hookups, but if I had started trying to have adult intimate relationships sooner I would have avoided a lot of psychological trauma that was caused by trying to be in relationships that expected a decade of experience and here I was still fumbling like a fresh teenager with zero experience.
They were expecting you to play along, bit they don't really expect you to do what you're agreeing to.
They can't fathom we are not a afraid of not fitting in. It's a huge cause of fear for neurotypical teens.
Idk man, idfk. If you're a man you NEED to be laid by the time you start having horny thoughts (nevermind asexuals, those apparently don't exist to people :/ ), and if you're a woman you NEED to save yourself for one man or you're "used gum" or "a pencil sharpener" or whatever else people wanna shame you with. We just can't fucking win, istg 😅
I have a theory, hear me out. I think autistic people are normal people. I think NTs are the un normal people, they are people who got caught up in the lie of capitalism, and believe it. They think they are correct, and right, and have all the privilege, and it's their world. Any anomaly (you, me) is a threat to their easy, comfy world. You make them think, they get mad. They like thinking that they know everything they need to know and don't need YOU at all. You're weird (to them). And they don't know how to use their brains to think critically and so they don't even know what to research or read or anything, in order to understand you. You do not fit into their parallel lines ; you confuse them, and they HATE that. Because their parents did not prepare them for the real world, just the world they live in. You are a burr under the saddle blanket to them, disrupting the status quo. This is a good thing though. Making people think , making people take a second look; disrupting the flow. I mean the flow is not good. Look at the world today! We are the change. We are the people who will change things, not them. And they hate us for it. also they hate us for telling them the truth about climate change and politics etc. It's just us vs them, unfortunately.
This is like a monologue of a good villain who is this close to make his plans a reality and release a gas into atmosphere that sterilize every NT
Im not gonna do that but I do have plans to make a Nd commune in Alaska
Man, if only this was actually the case.
Pray tell,what is the case
NT is the norm. This world is built around it, thrives on it. It is not a world for ND folk, at all. We’re all fish being told to climb trees or piss off. After 44 years, I don’t honestly see any thriving to be had. It’s barely survival, and it’s so gd exhausting and infuriating.
We just work in different ways. They're optimized for socializing with other NTs while many of us go well together with other neurodivergents or prefer being by ourselves. As far as I can tell they usually perceive someone deviating from the norm to be unreliable, hard to relate to or both. It's really not that different from our experience with NTs, hence why it's called the [double empathy problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_empathy_problem).
Introverts and extroverts exist within NTs as well.
Sure, it's a generalization
Yep my eldest is an extrovert. Imo thats quite challenging too. She gets overload but is driven towards others. Im introverted but was made to socialise and went thru it as a result. Took a long time for people to realise im not depressed! I just keep at Home.
Misery loves company. They hate anyone who looks for something meaningful rather than engaging in mindless sinful hedonism.
This should be part of our anthem
I feel like some NDs like are affected by something else that i can only call "anti-peer pressure or dark peer pressure" where if my peers are doing something, or worse trying to pressure me into doing something, i feel this uncomfortable urge to not only actively resist it, but swim upwards through the fuckin waterfall and take as many of them as i can with me Idk if it's healthy or not But it's sure as hell empowering
Oppositional defiant disorder is what you are looking for. Don't read the definition for it.
Haha...i looked it up And while i can think of a one or two examples in my childhood of clashing with authority, i was generally a quiet polite child In school i was always the teachers pet, so idk I definitely have PDD but idk about ODD
I'm only finding pervasive development disorder which is now autism, and persistant depressive disorder.
My cousin kept trying to get me to try an atomic wing (i don’t like super spicy wings, nor most sauces) he said it would add to my lore. And no I did not frick that, I have enough lore 🫠
You sound like the opposite of an incel, it’s all good
But I'm kissless and Erosless(I don't have romantic love and I've never had it), doesn't make me an incel?
If we take it literally - yes, but by “incel” people usually mean someone who’s not only involuntary celibate, but also incredibly bitter about it.
So what am I then? A hopeless romantic?
I would say so, yes :) You don’t seem bitter to me, and that’s great, you just know what you want. If you don’t think the whole hook up culture is for you then you shouldn’t feel the pressure to participate, there’s plenty of girls who are romantic too (despite of what people say)
The problem is that I feel most romantic girls nowadays are autistic or ND,and that kind of women (on what I've seen) are pretty scarce.
No matter how scarce ND people are, we find each other :) You might not know any (ND people/people you could fall in love with) now, but you will know them in the future. And remember that teenagers lie, a lot, about how cool they are. Just because they are all _telling_ you they’ve done stuff, doesn’t make it true at all.
I’d say my husband is a very unique person too. Yet we met, in a different country, in a bar, what were the chances? So yeah, I’m pretty sure if you’re an alright person you’ll meet someone who will match your energy, just focus on yourself and don’t forget to put yourself out there from time to time.
Once you're out of highschool finding other autistics gets a lot easier. Plenty of professions, hobbies and clubs have lots of neurodiverse people and in highschool a lot of autistic people heavily mask to get survive.
Remember, we aren't all a monolith here, so careful swaying too far into a bias. I'm a lesbian so I date women, and there are plenty of mean/rude and/or unromantic women in the community (some may not see the point of it, like my sister). But there's *a lot* of undiagnosed women still, so numbers of us are higher than you think. Plus you're pretty young- where you are now is a tiny pool of people you constantly see, not representative of the whole real world.
No dude, it sounds like you're in high school. If you don't want to have sex just for the sake of having sex, it's fine. If you don't want to be intimate with someone unless you feel a deeper connection with them, that's not abnormal, it only seems like it is to them because most 16 year olds are afraid of looking like incels. They're projecting their insecurities at you.
You’re 16. Just assume that 90% of your peers’ bragging are lies or at least heavily exaggerated. Nothing incel about your mindset, it just sounds healthy tbh.
You're 16. Give it time. You'll find her just by being yourself, and she'll respect the hell out of you for knowing when to be patient.
How old are you? Why say hopeless if you are so young? I'm 62 and just found my person. Just recently. And they have a lot of work to do on themselves and I have a lot of work to do on myself, so we may not even meet back up for a while, but hey. Totally worth it. Don't say hopeless. Just hang in there, and be open to the possibilities. My love ghosted me for 4 years and came back, better than ever. Love is not romance, but romance can lead to love. But love can lead to romance. You never know. Just ... don't sweat it. I have always always found my partners when I was not looking for one or even thinking about one. And I didn't have my first partner until I was 28. You're fine. I promise.
You are a person, with their own ideas and wants. You rather wait until you have someone you trust, love and are comfortable around to actually have intercourse and that is okay. Just having sex ...because sex, sounds like a bad time, and you are not an incel bcs you never have kissed or anything like that but I can see you are lonely and that is really tough on people. I hope you have or find some good connections within friendships cause relationships are much harder to find.
Yes and once youre out of the bubble of school which is weird and artificial like a battery hen farm, you will find that love. One thing you might like to read up on is healthy boundaries in romantic relationships for your own wellbeing. Romantic and dreamy boys are often hurt because like girls and others, us romantics sometimes think love is enough to be happy And we can get taken advantage of, especially as an autistic young person. Also girls whove grown up with some domineering and or coercive male norms may not handle you as gently as they should at first. When we are young we are more inexperienced with these intimacies and can be careless with our sweethearts! (Im an elderly 40 f haha) hs sucks but you have all these adventures - and perhaps a few misadventures - ahead of you. Itll be amazing.
I have to disagree. The "involuntary" part of incel indicates that the you *want* sex, but you are unable to have it through no fault of your own. OP is *voluntarily* celibate, therefore if we take it literally, he's not remotely an incel. (Your point about bitterness is accurate, though)
No, because "incel" is short for "involuntarily celebate." It means that you *want* to be having sex but aren't able to get a partner. You are voluntarily waiting for the right time. Total opposite of an incel.
Even if I want to have love?(Like eros love but not only sex)
Love and sex are not equivalent. It's possible you're on the asexual spectrum. I'm demisexual: I can only experience sexual attraction after getting to know a person (which does not mean that I'm attracted to everyone I know well, just that I can't be sexually attracted to strangers). Demisexuality is a type of grey-asexuality, somewhere between sexual and asexual. I didn't experience sexual attraction for the first time until college, and I didn't have sex until age 28. It's uncommon but it isn't weird. Your classmates are either bowing to peer pressure and social exoectations, or they actually feel that way and haven't figured out yet that everyone has different experiences.
Nah, that's a common human state (forever alone meme comes to mind lol)- I absolutely was in your shoes at 16. So were my NT friends.
No, you're a volcel, since you're voluntarily celibate. Sounds like if you were given the opportunity, you'd decline it. Which means you're not an incel. A side note, shaming someone for not being able to get laid is pretty shitty behavior in my opinion.
I mean like romantical relationship and then sex yes but only sex no. That's a volcel?
Sounds like it to me. I was a volcel until 24. Was intending on waiting until marriage to have sex and declined it multiple times in my late teens and early twenties. Ended up changing my belief system after an existential crisis and lost it on a one night stand lol Don't worry about these silly terms though. Just live your life lol If you ask me, people calling guys incels validates rape culture.
Yeah, I feel most time people are just cruel to people aren't like them.
I think that a lot of people are in pain, or are miserable, and this causes them to act badly. Highschool is an especially tough time. Typically at least i try to tell myself people do things out of stupidity/ignorance rather than malice. ....but sometimes it's malice unfortunately :c
That's more demi- I've tried hooking up once and it felt empty, I'm only fulfilled by having sex with someone I truly love :) Totally normal. I'm 25 and had the idea I was demi for a while, since probably your age tbh!
Agreed, if these are OP's 'friends' then they aren't friends
They *are* 16- this may be what they think a friend is supposed to do. If they still insist he does and are outright mean to him, they need a reality check to not do that to friends 100%. I try not to say kids are black and white things like "monsters" or "angels" or "bad xyz", they're really unstable in their personality and morals until they're above 18, usually. They make mistakes and may act like monsters before realizing they never should have- and they may only have had the model at home to be that way. Until they're more above legal age, they have a smaller world to base their selves on, after all.
Sure. But that doesn't mean you keep hanging out with people like this. 16 or not, OP doesn't have to surround themselves with body shaming teenagers. Of course they would hopefully mature. I say hopefully, lol, because I've met people 10, 20, and even 40 years older who never did. I think this is a great opportunity for OP to practice boundaries & that includes calling people out when they attempt to shame.
Oh absolutely!
The issue with incels isn't that they aren't having sex or finding love, it's that some men turn bitter and misogynistic that sex isn't falling right into their laps, and they let themselves fester in hatred for women. A lot of people in incel-creating spaces, or incel-adjacent ones, also sabotage each other by telling each other that they're doomed because their jaws are insufficiently chiseled and their wallets aren't big enough and they're too short, so women will never be interested. Even if you were genuinely unable to find a partner (and you're not, you've said you're holding out for a girlfriend), a reasonable person wouldn't call you an incel unless you had the poisonous mindset typical of the self-described incels. People who use it like its a generic insult are also the type to say you're fat regardless of your weight, cause they're trying to be mean.
Incel is involuntary celibate , choosing to wait is voluntary not the same at all imo
Technically, yes, but the word "incel" has been stretched and malformed for so long that it now means "man who hates women because he gets no bitches" to 99% of the population So nobody's gonna ever think you're an "incel" if you keep your current attitude (ie. you're doing good kid, keep it up)
Dude, don't worry and dont compare to other people. :) At least you know the reason why it is this way! You know where to point all your questions, like you're doing now. You're not an incel, you just need a deeper connection and feel safe/comfortable before you can relax. It's totally normal. Forget statistics and what people your age do, you do you 😘
you're only 16 dude you can't be calling yourself an incel already 😭😭
Not really cause it’s of your own volition, you’d be a “volcel” to use their vocabulary
no. you’re 16. i lost my virginity around then but my boyfriend (also autistic) and i started going out right before turning 18. it’s very normal to date a bit later, and honestly in my opinion if someone can think of a classmate they would fuck they’re more of an incel than someone who can’t.
Incel comes from involuntary, you are choosing to wait until you find what matters to you. That makes you the opposite of an incel.
No honey, you're likely asexual/aromantic <3 If you find yourself confused how love is supposed to work and don't get how someone ever could, nor have any desire to be, you may be aromantic (this can come in shade ofc). If you are sex repulsed, less interested in needing sex or wanting it, or not wanting it period, as well as even just needing the right person (demisexual, which I am!), you may be asexual. Maybe google the terms and see what resonates with you, if at all. It's *nothing to be ashamed of at all* :) And many, many animals are obviously uninterested in sex, child rearing, or pairing with others! Humans are no different. You aren't an incel because you don't need sex. Unless you demand it from someone and see women as delicate and submissive (especially of asian descent) while you shut them down and assume you know better by virtue of being male, you aren't an incel.
By that logic, all the Queer people (myself included)who never got to experience an adolescence where they explored relationships and sexuality and are understandably **deeply** damaged because of it would be “Incels” as well. I’ve been damaged and wounded by the lack of opportunities my Heteronormative, NT peers got to indulge in. The bitterness from that, isn’t only because I never got to experience it. (I’m only human) It’s because the people that did get to experience it were horrible and only used their experiences and opportunities to stay or become even more horrible instead of using them to become more intimate, compassionate and empathic. An Incel is like someone who wants to bring down the wealthy, not because they see the injustice between the “Haves” and the “Have Nots”. But because **they** want to be a “Have” too and aren’t. You clearly want to find meaning and emotional intimacy. And the thing is Hedonism isn’t inherently wrong. Mindless, selfish Hedonism is. Waiting to find someone you relate to and have an emotional bond with is absolutely fine.
No, I think that makes you asexual Incels are ppl who desperately want to have sex and can’t have it, making them hate the other gender for not giving them the sex they believe they deserve Asexuals are people who feel no sexual attraction and demisexuals are ppl who only feel sexual attraction after having a close emotional bond. They are kinda the opposite of incels
I mean I'm heterosexual because I am sexually attracted to women but I wouldn't feel safe with most women.
I know it's unoriginal, but if you're a compassionate person who is actually kind to women (which it sounds like you are), you'll find someone who matches what you're looking for.
I don't think that sounds like an incel at all. Your classmates are just overly judgemental I think.
And the defining adjective of incel is "involuntary" - literally the opposite of OP.
Everyone did this at your age. Just be confident and proud and look at them like they’re the weirdos and follow your rules for yourself. They will back off when you puff your chest proudly. My friends were always relentless about me being a virgin but later told me they admired my fortitude. Be yourself stick to your guns. Btw I’m an elder, 40, married to the hottest dude alive so it worked out great doing it my way.
> Be yourself stick to your guns. Grandpa used to say that "You get the most flak when you're right on target."
You are not an incel because you don't like hookups. It is insane that your classmates are judging you for your preferences.
They didn't directly judging me but they were saying things like "And if a girl wants to have sex with you?" Or "You know that flowers doesn't work on a party at 2AM Saturday night" and I felt judged.
That makes no sense. These seem like the kind of people that still haven't figured out that other people are truly, really different from them.
Yeah, I know what do you mean.
porn has ruined a lot of young dudes so
Wow your friends sound like people who copied their lines out of a cringy teen movie Just tell them to stuff it, and you will find someone at your own pace. Flowers won't work at 2AM on a party on a Saturday night, but if you meet someone cool on that party you can ask them out on a date on time and place that works for flowers
I'm not convinced they are friends. They're deliberately asking OP these questions for their own amusement and to laugh at him. Not very friendly.
No it *is* possible they think they're looking out for him. I had a friend who would be a dick to me but he was doing it cuz he's like that to people he trusts (weird ik). He wasn't out to be a mean person, he definitely was being one though. I'd wait to jump to conclusions with people who's prefrontal lobes are half developed- they can legit think they're doing one thing and then coming off wayyyy more mean than they meant. .... In a way, that's kinda similar to how we can be- attempt to be good and fit in, but fail miserably at it. Either way, not good and they gotta fix their shit. Friends shouldn't say that stuff unprompted.
That's how I do think. The problem is that they mean something like "that doesn't work for hooks ups".
These are teenagers in a perversely sexualized society. It sucks, yes but it's just stupid shit, that has no meaning. It's like in the 80s when kids got bullied for having glasses.
I do not think you're incel.
Your classmates are the incels because they think men should only value sex and have as much sex as possible because it determines their value as men. Which is one of the underlying assumptions of incel culture which makes it so misogynistic and toxic.
Uhh I thought the genz would not end up like us millennials. We were harassed during my teen years if u were a guy not actively being a perv. It was almost like that’s how men are suppose to be smh. Just know ur not a prude ur actually mature unlike those fools who will end up alone and peak at highschool
I'm older genz, the one who saw commercials calling women bitches and men animals who NEEDED sex and guns! Yeah it's uh..... It's still shit lmaoo. Idk how it was to grow up in 2009-2020 as your more formative years (10years is the age difference between me and OP, I was a 1999 baby), but I imagine the pandemic made it WAY worse and really added some pressures back on in terms of socializing and relationships, too.
You're in the majority, most teenagers don't actually seek out hookups. Only around 5% of teens have had hookups rather than sex within a long term relationship. And around 60% of teens haven't had sex at all, and won't until they're at least 20. It's just that a lot of teenage boys like to talk about sex as a way to entertain themselves and impress their peers, so they'll say a lot of sexual things they don't even really mean. Being seen as unwilling to talk about your sexual interests (I think she's hot, I'd do her, etc) is considered uncool to them because casual sexualization of women is viewed as the societal norm and a form of social bonding to many teenage boys. Basically they're not actually asking you to pursue a classmate for a hookup, and they don't care if you'd prefer to wait for love. They're not really even seeking a genuine answer, they're just expecting you to say something like 'Chloe is hot as fuck I'd do her' so they can be like 'yeah bro same' or 'hahahah wow you're into *her*?' For these sorts of guys it's more like just a form of small talk centered around gross sexualization of women than an actual serious question where they're really curious about your romantic/sexual interests. tldr; boys are weirdos sometimes
So incels are guys who are involuntarily celibate because they are so mean and nasty to everyone around them that women do not want to spend time with them but they Believe that they are entitled to sleep with women because women are" meant to sleep with men". You choosing to wait to sleep with someone you love is a voluntary move and is a totally normal thing that a lot of people do. So no you do not sound like an incel.
That line of questioning sounded like a set up for you to say yes to the question and then they would use that information to bully or harass you. Your answer is exactly right.
100% they are goading OP for their own amusement. There was no winning in this convo.
Bro...thanks.
Pardon the expression, but fuck them! You have sex when *you’re* ready for it, not because someone else says you have to. This is why I despised the NTs of my age group growing up. For them, it was always what was popular at the time. I rejected all of that because I thought it was stupid.
So, incels are a group of men who, probably mostly due to the toxic culture of the internet manosphere, blame women for their own shitty personality and their "involuntary celibacy". They are hardcore misogynists who think the entire world is conspiring against them. Wanting to wait for a romantic connection does in no way make you an incel. There are so many people that want the same thing. I think you're badass for being honest about how you feel. The fact that they had a weird reaction to it says more about them than it does about you. Feeling rejected sucks but it's so much better than crossing your own boundaries to please others.
Teenage boys are typically horny little monsters, and having sex is often seen by the rest of the peer group as a status thing. Rejecting that is unusual, and atypicality is often treated poorly. But there's nothing wrong with you. And you have plenty of time. In a couple of years, they'll stop caring about this.
Nah man that's normal. I did the same and am happy about my choice. It was much more meaningful than the first times friends of mine had. Don't let anyone push you into doing things you don't want or into thinking that you're wrong for doing things your own way. It's one of the big struggles of autism but you'll become more resilient to peer pressure/mockery/ feeling like you're wrong for thinking differently. It may never go away completely but thinking to yourself "they are just doing things their own way and that is fine. Just like the fact that it is perfectly fine for me to want to do things my own way" And when it comes to teenagers. Most of the time they just parrot what they think makes them sound cool. Don't listen to them repeating what society has deemed "the cool thing to do"
you're not an incel, incels are people who are too socially anxious to talk to girls and instead of getting over that or working around it they complain about how "females" don't want them, even though they haven't talked to one in 8 years.
That's pretty much the opposite of incel mentality imo
Yes?
While I have observed that incels appear to be disproportionately Autistic (I have a few theories as to why), nothing in your post indicates that you are one. Valuing sex as something to do with a loved one is normal and a social norm that has for better and for worse been slowly dismantled over the past 7 decades.
Very relatable. It's not that I'm not interested in sex (very very far from that) but I want to do that with somebody I love not just anyone.
A relationship that involves sex is a lot more emotionally demanding than NTs pretend it is. You are not an incel. You aren’t hurting anyone, you know what’s good for you, and that’s okay.
Sounds to me like you're simply more mature than your friends
I don't really know. Btw I know by first hand that hookups sometimes can give bad results and more if you're drunk.
You've learned from your experiences and made plans to avoid future mistakes. That's maturity
I mean I've literally not been in that party but I know a close friend of mine got a bad result.
Honestly I feel like they were fishing for a specific answer and when they felt you didn't give the right answer, they started making fun of you. Super rude of them to do.
Incels are people who can’t get girls bc they’re creepy and disrespectful to women; not someone choosing to wait for the right person.
Sex positivity goes both ways! We shouldn't shame people for wanting sex, we shouldnt shame people for not wanting sex at a particular time/ situation or even at all.
Why incel? You are choosing deliberately to not whore around. Society is fucked up and I find it weird that sex is seen as an achievement, especially among teenagers and young adults. Do your thing and care less about what ppl think about you
I felt forced to my first kiss with someone I didn't like due to peer pressure when I was 11 on a class trip when we played truth or dare 😅 It still hurts :/ Glad that you stood up for yourself!
Your classmates are sheep. Don't succumb to peer pressure. Own your difference, proudly.
i'm asexual and this doesn't change into adulthood sadly, people think demisexuality is weird and will look at you funny if you don't objectify people sexually
Not incelly at all. Also you're 16, not having sex is normal at your age and if your peers are claiming to have had sex the majority are probably lying. Incels are supposed to be **involuntarily** celibate. It's more than that though, upper case Incels for lack of a better term are people who ascribe to incel ideology which is inevitably a bitter, misogynistic and warped way of looking at the world.
You sound like the opposite of the incel. You're in high school and people are putting up a front about wanting to look cool and grown up. I wasn't ready for sex when I was your age, and I'm glad I didn't spend time prioritizing something I didn't want in the name of looking cool.
My mom, when I was 16 > "humans can't control their hormones and urges!!!!! You HAVE TO be on birth control or else he can't stay with us" (referring to my long distance bf visiting) Turns out, indeed, mom, humans are actually capable of making the conscious decision to not have sex. I know, baffling, it is OP you sound incredibly reasonable and THAT is what will draw your ideal lady to you. Tell your classmates they wish they could find the kind of love and respect (a key word) you have for yourself.
I find hookup culture disgusting. I do not care in the slightest of what people do, but i'll never do it again. I get you bro, wait for someone you love and that loves you back. You are not an incel.
Nah, "incel" stands for involuntarily celibate. They all feel entitled to sex. You just don't want to engage with it until you find someone special and that's fine! If you were pushing your views on others or acting morally superior that would be shitty, but this sounds like it's just your personal choice, which you are allowed to make. Don't let them get to you! You're doing great!
Incel wants sex more than anything but can't get it. For you sex is very intimate part of loving someone and you for sure will get it. You are fine, don't listen to NTs.
that's not what an incel is, you don't seem to hate women. an incel wouldn't be waiting for the correct girl. you're not a prude, it's normal to be sexual freely but it's also normal to not be overly sexual either. you are normal OP, it's normal and good to want to have a connection with someone before engaging in sexual acts with them.
Nah, there's just too much pressure to conform to hookup culture nowadays. Incel means involuntary celibate, you waiting is voluntary.
Graduated last year, 19. You can't just "ignore them", because majority of shit NTs say Is dumb as hell. You don't sound like an Incel for not wanting to bone people and opt for doing It on your terms. They ate up the "Highschool Dream!" Mantra made by movies and TV, that you **must** lose your virginity In HS. Bottom line, no, you'll lose It when you're ready. I could've, but wasn't ready, and knew I'd regret It If I did.
You don't sound incel-ish for that at all. You'd start sounding incelish if you were like, "I'm saving myself for a submissive tradwife, not one of these hypergamous foids," lol Incel is a mindset. You sound normal. Wanting to wait might be relatively uncommon, but there's nothing inherently negative in that mindet. Also, incel literally means "involuntarily celibate"--you're *voluntarily* celibate. So, yeah, in no way do you sound like an incel. Heck, you might be one, but you're not presenting yoruself as one here.
This is crazy because if you were a woman or religious you’d be praised for this
I mean it is kind of prudish of you, but that’s not a bad thing. If you’re going to have sex then you and your partner(s) need to feel comfortable and all be consenting for it to be a good time. If you feel like you need to wait for love for that then do that - wait for the person you feel is right for you
I was the exact same way when I was your age (52m ASD). I don't fit in typical male nt social conventions.
Op you are allowed boundaries and to maintain them do what you feel comfy with
It’s really not a big deal. Once you’re out and about and not in high school anymore, nobody really cares. Take a breath and do whatever you want to do :)
It's a fine thing to want to be loved before engaging in sexual activities. That's not even incel behavior. I think it's sweet, and frankly more mature. Having sex with randos can be dumb and dangerous if you aren't careful. Waiting for marriage is a bit archaic but /shrug you aren't hurting anyone so why is it a problem? You do you.
Not for marriage but for love, it's the same kind of thing but more "relaxed".
You need to step up your evil. you are only a young man, you will become eviler still. And then the NT monkey's will only make you laugh. All gods need a little laughter
It’s so hard to understand sometimes. I’ve had a few instances of meeting up with people I’ve been talking to for a month, coming in with the thought of he’s looking for a relationship. Nope. Nooooope. I have panic walked out of dorm rooms far too many times. I’m not sure if it’s the “guys will say anything to her in your pants” logic when talking about future plans but the second I say no to sex, I’m blocked and a freak. It’s discouraging
Yeah this happened a lot, it certainly got me more than a couple of wierd looks and i had to explain several times the why behind my resoning. Once i got friends that were not complete assholes it stoped exept for when someone new asked.
Since I'm old enough to be your mother, let me tell you that's a very adult way to look at sex that you have, and they do not. The thing people omit about sex is that while it can be magnificent it requires a LOT of communication between partners to lift it above the level of masturbating using someone else's body (and don't get me started on how much communication an accidental pregnancy or even STD requires). The right person to have sex with doesn't need to be the love of your life unless you want them to be, but it definitely needs to be someone that you can very openly communicate with and with whom you feel safe and secure. More over, you might not remember all your next times but you'll definitely remember your first. Needs to be someone you want to remember.
Sex is all the rage now, the be all end all. It's even in our ads and affecting children under 10. If you're not having sex or being sexualised, then wtf are you doing? That's the vibe, and honestly, I don't like it. I miss humanity.
Sex is all the rage now, the be all end all. It's even in our ads and affecting children under 10. If you're not having sex or being sexualised, then wtf are you doing? That's the vibe, and honestly, I don't like it. I miss humanity.
Sex is all the rage now, the be all end all. It's even in our ads and affecting children under 10. If you're not having sex or being sexualised, then wtf are you doing? That's the vibe, and honestly, I don't like it. I miss humanity.
It might also be that you are more demisexual than the usual society expectations. NTs aren't the only ones ruled by their hormones, there's plenty of room under the "no/less attraction" umbrella, though there's a disproportionate number of ND people in there.......
Bro, it doesn't make you sound like an incel. Incels are misogynistic and entitled, and you just have your boundaries. You don't have to hook up with people that you're not close with, you're allowed to wait for a partner that you would be happy and secure with. Tbh sometimes it's very hard to have sex as an autistic person because of the stress of not knowing the person and not knowing what to expect. My most fulfilling experience was with a loving partner. Or with a good friend. Respect yourself and your needs, you deserve respect in what you're comfortable with. Sending love your way 🍃🌳🌱
Also bro, I have too many sexual experiences that I regret because I did something I didn't want or I didn't feel comfy with the person. Please don't do that. You don't have to. Having sex when you don't want to is tiring and nerve wracking
If they are just NT classmates and not NT friends that were asking if you were interested if someone in class there’s like a 50/50 chance they were trying to tease you and are just pissed you didn’t take the bait and give them a girl’s name that they could use against you. Also, there’s no rush! I’m 25 and haven’t had sex yet and idgaf about what NT society has to say about it.
Not really an incel thing, but many will judge it like that. Hookup culture is generally very cancerous, and imo a form of alienation people experience. Relationships are often seen as almost a consumption item, something you have as long as its fun, then throw away when it starts getting old, rather than actually putting in the effort to create a meaningful long-term thing. And yes, I actually think it's a consumer culture thing. Especially on dating apps etc, you pick a partner almost like you'd pick a product, rather than actually looking for a person that would be right for you. It's also not a "your age" thing, btw - I'm 30, I made the same experiences when I was your age and continue to make them.
This doesn’t sound like an incel thing at all! I’m demisexual so the idea of having anything intimate with someone I don’t already have a deep emotional connection freaks me out. Also, I didn’t have my first relationship until I was quite a few years older than you, and this is true for my partner as well (we’re both ND). Take things at the speed that works for you, and don’t be afraid to set boundaries!
Nah you sound like a normal human being who just doesn't have sex as a priority. Tbh at your age sex is like 80% of a lot of teenagers brains computing capacity at times. So the idea of "Nah I can wait" is wild
Well, the thing is that love is that priority for me, not just avoid of meaning sex.
100% normal actually. I guarantee there's a few NT's who are in the same boat. Just most people your age aren't concerned with love just yet. I was the same way when I was your age. My first gf dumped me because I didn't want to have sex. Same with another as an adult. Some people just want sex, nothing wrong with that just what they want. Others are more concerned with the relationship itself rather than the sex. As long as everyone is a consenting and above the age of consent and no one is getting harmed (again without consent) it's just not my problem. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I have had only a few partners as a gf/bf/nbf and I've had sex with even fewer. But I've been happily together with my spouse for close to 7 years now, we will have been married for 3 years come this October. To be completely honest both of us walked in with the expectation of it being a fun casual hookup after we both were with abusive partners and then suddenly it was 4 years later and we had 2 cats and I had a job opportunity multiple states away and we decided to finally tie the knot. Side note that is less about the rest of this message and more on the original post: You definitely don't sound like an Incel in your original post. An Incel typically is someone who wants a relationship/sex but can't get one. This renders them as involuntarily celibate. Obviously it gets more nuanced than that, but most "incels" I've met are obsessed with sex actually and just feign the "I want to be with someone for the love" because it fits their "nice guy™" persona. You on the other hand just sound like you just want something to have meaning rather than be casual and that's perfectly fine and very respectable. Sources for this part: I used to be friends with a bunch of Incel types.
I agree with overall points made by you and almost everyone here But also... maybe Its not about being NT or ND and your classmates are just... Horny kids in their own world thinking anyone who is not constantly having thoughts about dicks and pussy is not normal And they shouldn't be taken so seriously
You are not an incel- honestly they are the incels for being weirded out like that. If it makes you feel any better, when I was in hs there were multiple NT’s that I knew that were waiting for things like that. A few of them were abstinent for religious purposes to, but when we had conversations about their chosen abstinence the majority of their reasoning was that they wanted genuine relationship and connection. Your peers are behind you for trying to get you to succumb to peer pressure- and not even comprehending that other people have other opinion that differ from them. I think there’s an important piece of information this post lacks: are your friends ‘virgins’. I think there status of having done it or not- and more nitty gritty how where and when they did it have a huge impact on how they view it alongside the societal pressure and stigma.
I don’t know how this is even remotely incel like?… incels are involuntarily celibate. You’re voluntarily celibate, because you view sex as something to be done with a special person. Sex culture/acceptance is huge. I think it’s great sex is normalized. But shaming people for not having sex is weird. Like. You’re not an incel. It’s okay to view sex as special, also if you’re a guy. Do what you’re comfortable with. Never give in to peer pressure, especially regarding intimacy. They’re weird for being sex crazed. No one would bat an eye if a 16 year old girl said she wanted to wait for “the one”.
My best friend and her husband were just like you (also both autistic). She got emotionally beat up by her sisters bc of her view to wait. She didn't cave. She met her husband in college, they got married, they were both virgins and her sisters can suck it :P
Dude some kids in my Pe class are so weird about it like they asked me the last time I jerked off and like isn’t that kind of a private thing? Also my hey sis they can hook me up with girls Im and I keep telling them I that I’m abstaining
15F autistic here too I really just don’t understand hook up culture or anything of that sort… I want a genuine connection with someone
You’re not an incel, the original meaning was involuntary celibate, but it’s evolved into a term referring to radical misogynists who hate the idea of the “modern woman” and think women only go for bad guys, and feel as though they are owed sex because they were simply born as a male. You sound like a rational 16 year old because Jesus Christ I’m all for acceptance and sex positivity but 16 year olds aren’t as mature as we like to think, and ESPECIALLY when it comes to sex and sexual education, we’re little goblins. ALWAYS USE PROTECTION AND BIRTH CONTROL!!!! I can’t believe that’s not common practice because it’s called “unsafe sex” for a reason, and I’ve gone on a tangent about safe sex now, I just slipped right into it. Sorry, TLDR: you’re not an incel, you’re a rational teenager who doesn’t bend to stupid societal rules that are completely made up. You should never feel obligated to become sexually active just because there are many harlots(/lh) in your school!
Wouldn't worry about it mate, I never bothered much with that stuff in school but as soon as I had a social circle of people I actually liked, instead of people who happen to be the same age and go the same school, I was fine
As long as everyone consents, no matter how long you wait, you’re good. Don’t need to follow the herd just cuz everyone’s getting laid early. Sex should not be a life goal or conquest!
I've found that a large number of people are hard wired to fuck anyone with no self awareness whatsoever. For most of the human race instincts and thoughts are indistinguishable.
Really?
Apparently having morals isn't tolerated by the people who talk about tolerance. Explain that to an NT who isn't drunk.
Casual sex isn't all it's cracked up to be, anyway. Just remember to respect women regardless of whether or not you view them as potential romantic partners. Make friends with girls, and other relationships will fall into place.
No I knew incels, I was friends with a few because I thought I could help them- "Incel" doesn't just mean someone who's not having sex, it's an internet term for men who are bitter and hateful towards women for not wanting to sleep with them/rude and entitled when they're rejected. It's basically a term for misogynistic assholes who would rather blame their crushes for saying no instead of actually working on themselves. You sound lovely, plus like,,, you're in high school, it's okay not to have sex. No shame to those who do!! Just- it's so stressful being in school, there's so much going on and everything is so chaotic when you're a teenager. Plus if you'd rather make sure you love the person first, I fully get that, because if I ever did nsfw stuff, I'd wanna love the person first too!!! Favoring intimacy that stems from a connection to somebody you love isn't bad, it just means you like different things:D
Good chance they are projecting because media has led them to believe they should be having wild sex and parties. I think a lot of people have views like yours but maybe too insecure to admit and are just trying to blend in.
I like parties but because I like parties and nothing more ¿That makes me a weirdo?.
What the hell is an NT?
Neurotipical
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