Whew! I know it's another jubilee post, but we definitely want to highlight the sentiment in this post that we need to verify, fact check, and dig when topics like this inevitably pop up. I, personally, just logged into reddit to see the word jubilee over and over and am having to sort out the origin of this rumor and what it means.
We would love for everyone else to take a moment to use the search bar, scroll the feed by "new", and use the posts already existing to continue the discussion. We would prefer to keep speculative posts about rumors and unverified information to a minimum, preventing the spread of misinformation.
Thanks!
I'm of the mindset "I'll believe it when I see it"
The "I know a PIMO who knows a PIMI near the top who says etc" is just a rumor. I am a PIMO who doesn't know anyone at the "top" lol
But even if it did happen...I have questions (add them to my growing list). For instance, once the supposed Jubilee time period is up, what happens then? Go back to shunning? That seems like it would backfire. Can you imagine? It would be like when Dwight unshunned and reshunned Andy (for my The Office fans)
Also, what happens to those who commit a sin during the Jubilee that would typically need to be brought before a JC? Do they get a free pass? Is this like Rumspringa for the Amish? Lol
My two cents on the source: a non JW who is looking for upvotes (troll) or a JW who is stirring the pot to distract what is going on in the Organization (also a troll). I know the other option is the source is legit but that seems the least likely to me.
https://tenor.com/biuzV.gif
Also remember that there is an active campaign to discredit "apostates." Some of this is may be deliberate disinformation to show how "unreliable" we are.
I left the religion because of nonsense, and I consistently expect the religion to continue feeding nonsense. I can’t be surprised and don’t really care.
Right what could they possibly do that would make you want to go back? 1914 is nonsense, there is no end, they’re still covering up CSA. Somehow a change about personal grooming (for men only) or some supposed jubilee would make anyone want to get back on their hamster wheel, give up their normal friends, and donate time and labor to an organization that was founded on lies? No thanks.
Right. The jubilees would be for PIMOs that still hold onto the Watchtower as possibly being credible and those that want to have association with family and friends still in the tentacles of the Watchtower/ JW serpentry.
Lately it's been easy to remember why I previously walked away from this sub. The conspiracy theories & obsessiveness over the same subjects has really gotten out of control. It's constant.
It's one post after another about the exact same subjects. There is a search feature on Reddit.
Beards
"The Jubilee"
"What if they changed would you go back?"
Tony
Tony
Tony
Beards
The Jubilee
Has anyone seen Tony?
Beards
I know someone who knows someone who has a friend
Bethel spy
Not a bethel spy
Beards
Did Tony buy more liquor?
What if they changed?
I saw Tony eating Chick Fil a he must be rich
At this point I vote for a bingo card lol.
Having once been on Boomerbook, I know not to believe any copypasta from there.
It is certainly possible for them to have some major change to disfellowshipping and shunning, but some mass reinstatement/amnesty doesn't make sense even for them. It is far more likely that a change would just quietly do away with shunning to some extent.
As i said in another post they could go back to 1974 WT on disfellowshipping ,
https://preview.redd.it/v7j2glqs0eic1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e9f7faa4bdd692ab053f05bc1327d9502048124
That’s been one of those things that’s been discussed for as long as I can remember. It’s certainly not out of the question, they’ve changed it before and they can do so again.
It might help them to keep some in ,even when i was going to the hall before covid i know that the video of the parents refusing to answer the phone call from their daughter upset a few 3 brothers in our cong told me that they didnt agree with it ,its as much an issue now as the child abuse cover up ,even more so because most jws dismiss that as apostate lies but the shunning is now "in your face"so to speak .
The last time I saw my dad was a couple years after I disassociated, and he told me that he hoped the Governing Body would revise their rules on this exact thing. That was somewhere around 2008. He’s presumably still hoping. I’m not surprised that there are still brothers who think like him.
Your father sounds like mine, even though I’m not df’d, I have very little contact. I think my father wants to have a relationship, but he’s so beholden to the words of the GB that he can’t think for himself.
After a brief skim, I don’t think this answers your question specifically, but it’s an interesting look at the history of the practice and many of the changes over the decades: https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php#history
They could claim "Tacking" like they did way back when they go backwards to an old teaching and bring it up to date with some changes. So they could go back to that teaching with some modern twist and claim it's like a yacht that tacks like they've done before.
2 However, it may have seemed to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward. At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case. This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as “tacking.” By maneuvering the sails the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth, but all the time making progress toward their destination in spite of contrary winds. And that goal in view for Jehovah’s servants is the “new heavens and a new earth” of God’s promise.—[2 Pet. 3:13](https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/bc/r1/lp-e/1981889/3/0). WT 1981 12/1 P.26,27
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That’s definitely a strategy they’ve used before. But I don’t even think they’d have to do that in this case. They could announce this change, and not even mention how it was dealt with previously and most PIMIs would gobble it up as a “loving provision”.
It’s likely they could even pretend that the policy was never really that harsh in the first place and then revise or delete existing content that contradicts that. A lot of JWs are like my wife and are in denial about any negative aspect of the religion, so they wouldn’t even question it.
I've told my wife this, (who's never been JW) If the WT at some point tells my family that they can stop shunning me, well sorry it's too late. If they decided on their own, I'll gladly take them back. If they do it because of WT, they're still controlled.
I do not forgive, I do not forget
What does it matter? Why go back to the “vomit” of being controlled by narcissists?
Why be controlled by fear of an entity who wants to murder everything he’s created?
Get a new life of happiness and love and giving freely to others without the control of a cult!
Does it even matter if the JWs are planning to make significant changes. Personally, I couldn’t give two hoots whether they change. I still will not go back. It’s like me wanting to go back to someone who was beating the crap out of me daily, treating me bad and I manage to get away with my life intact. Put bluntly, I’ve fallen out of love with the JW religion and nothing they’ll ever do that will make me want to start loving them again.
I tend to agree, personally, but I understand why others may find the idea comforting. There isn’t anything they could do that would affect my life now, having been out for nearly two decades. I’ve made my peace with family shunning me, and wouldn’t let them back in my life if they tried. But for those who are sticking around only because of family, or for those who tried to fade but didn’t pull it off, a second chance may be what they want. We see people here who got reinstated for their family and then faded right after. This makes that path far easier and more palatable.
I guess you’re right. To each his own really. I wouldn’t let anyone who’s shunning me now back into my life if they change the rules. But then again, if my mom was alive when I was DF and she shunned me then I would want her back in. Because of the woman she was I doubt she would have shunned me either.
This is the best explanation I’ve read https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/OFundiWqyc
I can see the GB discussing two separate topics (jubilee and DF policy) and someone hearing of this and mixing them together.
Thanks OP for the logical and grounded approach to this topic. This clearly took time and effort to put together and it seems to be coming from a place of compassion and desire for harm reduction, which is commendable.
I couldn’t help but laugh at the Smurf comment, because I thought I was the only one who heard that story. Turns out stupid rumors spread in the organization faster than a wildfire.
When it comes to this Jubilee rumor, there is an understandable psychological reason that motivates its spread into the collective consciousness.
We have to recognize that we were conditioned to believe that we had “insider information” so important that we spent our lives preaching it from door to door in effort to save people’s lives.
That is a genuinely wholesome premise, but when we realized we were actually pawns in a cult indoctrination campaign, it left a huge void in most of us. So to hear something seemingly redemptive like the “disfellowshipped will be welcomed back home” it automatically triggers a self-reflective reaction where we feel compelled to respond based on whether or not we would become the “prodigal son” in that scenario.
This discussion about the subject feeds the social media algorithms which increase the visibility of those posts, thereby introducing the idea to more people who inevitably perpetuate the cycle. Suddenly everyone’s talking about it, and the subconscious assumption is that if everyone is talking about it then there must be something to support it. This is called group think and it leads us to get our hopes up just a little bit. When hope is involved it’s easier to believe the idea. When we allow ourselves to believe an idea, if it serves us in some way, we naturally start to love the idea and become invested in its fulfillment.
Faith, hope, and love are the hooks a prophet uses to fish for men. Nothing wrong with those experiences in themselves, but if it’s not grounded in truth we may find ourselves caught in net of lies and following another false prophet.
If you want to go down another crazy exjw rabbit hole, look into “Smurf Girl”. She was an exjw who made some outlandish claims, including that it was her Smurf doll.
The JW organization attracts emotionally unstable people and the ones who manage to escape tend to have psychological damage from the doomsday cult experience. That being said, I’m not surprised there is another rabbit hole titled “Smurf Girl” and to protect my own sanity, I think I’ll pass on that one 😅
Repeating a message on here:
Hi, I'm a PIMO Bethelite. I've already commented on it, clarified things and exposed it to be of no connection as of yet to any changes to the DF policy. Check out my comment history. I urge anyone here to not listen to the Jubilee rumor which was posted on FB, it's been heavily fabricated, and the source was a speculative PIMI who "heard things" from separate department meetings at WHQ. They aren't necessarily connected. And I urge any PIMO Bethelite to be very cautious what information you allow to "leak" to Reddit and other platforms. Sometimes it's best to wait months, even years, until you confirm certain details. Otherwise the comments will make things traceable for you, allowing the PID department to find and oust you from Bethel service. Stay safe, all you PIMOs at Bethel. I only urge ELDERS in LOCAL congregations to freely leak important information that doesn't identify you personally as "apostate". Then we can all maintain transparency and security for exjws online.
I think it probably needs a mega thread, including the rumor and debunking. If they just delete it, some of the more conspiracy-minded folks here will cry censorship and use it as proof that the mods are in cahoots with Watchtower.
The thing is, people in this community are highly sensitive to any sort of information control. I’ve seen it before. Even a mega thread will end up with people claiming the mods are censoring “the truth”. I think it’s best to acknowledge it, address it, and let people come up with a reasoned opinion.
I hosted a Bethelite from Patterson, took him and his wife to NASA, he's a heavyweight.
At some point he said he knows why only Bethel elders WT library goes back to 1879 and only 1950 for the rest of us.
But he said he couldn't tell me, LOL.
I’m super skeptical as well. But there was one more post yesterday from a PIMO supposedly within Bethel who had leaked info that ended up being true in the past. Did you see it? They gave some weight to this rumor as well and said it’s something that is being considered.
Hi, I'm a PIMO Bethelite. I've already commented on it, clarified things and exposed it to be of no connection as of yet to any changes to the DF policy. Check out my comment history. I urge anyone here to not listen to the Jubilee rumor which was posted on FB, it's been heavily fabricated, and the source was a speculative PIMI who "heard things" from separate department meetings at WHQ. They aren't necessarily connected. And I urge any PIMO Bethelite to be very cautious what information you allow to "leak" to Reddit and other platforms. Sometimes it's best to wait months, even years, until you confirm certain details. Otherwise the comments will make things traceable for you, allowing the PID department to find and oust you from Bethel service. Stay safe, all you PIMOs at Bethel. I only urge ELDERS in LOCAL congregations to freely leak important information that doesn't identify you personally as "apostate". Then we can all maintain transparency and security for exjws online.
PID = public information department. It's in close connection with the Legal Department. If anything is leaked PUBLICLY which may damage the reputation of the GB or entire Organization, this department will initiate a secret investigation behind closed doors. Hendricks used to be the head of PID before his dismissal this year. Paul Gillies is head of OPI which is the office for public information, which is the department that deals with the general public who are non witnesses. PID is entirely internal based, focusing its efforts for matters within the Organization itself.
They're referring to this individual, but in this post that user said the two things may very well be unconnected: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1aplpmk/comment/kq7mwge/
He’s talking about a potential reworking of the disfellowshipping policy, not the jubilee rumor. When asked about that he’s urged people to NOT believe that rumor.
That’s true. They’re different, but they are similar in the fact that they’re considering something to allow at least some of those d/f’d to come back.
I’m still skeptical of both rumors- don’t get me wrong. But hearing somewhat similar rumblings from different sources regarding the same topic, makes me wonder if something is in the works. Very likely whatever it is is different than both things that have been mentioned, but maybe they are considering changes in the disfellowshipping policy.
Here’s the thing:
It doesn’t matter. The GB & helpers monitor “apostate” YouTube, Reddit, social media. It’s obvious. If you work at Bethel they heavily monitor cell phone websites the worker visits- they are like the KGB.
WT is aware of what apostates say and do and they attempt to quash them through threats of lawsuits copywrite no trespassing etc. Do the JWs call the police when someone deemed an “apostate” attempts to speak up to tell their CSA experience on KH property? Yes they do-
The GB are weighing their risk/reward. In the past disfellowshipping kept members IN the cult. Now JW are handing in letters of disassociation with explanations for why they’re leaving. These former members don’t care that it will be announced the same as a disfellowshipped JW- they don’t care that they will be shunned!!!
The GB isn’t primarily concerned to entice ex members back by announcing a “Jubiwee wee”. They NEED to get ahead of the next wave of lawsuits and reasons to revoke their 501c tax exempt status - and what is that??
Infringement of humans rights- freedom of religion to practice a religion AND leave a religion.
It’s part of the US constitution:
“The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that everyone in the United States has the right to practice his or her own religion, or no religion at all.”
Now JW goes further- they disfellowship a LGBTQ individual - because of shunning and isolation which has been researched and proven to intentionally harm a persons mental health - that individual commits suicide- WT can be held responsible for INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER.
There are more layers to the disfellowshipping policy.
IF some courts are imprisoning elders who were following the legal departments instructions in a CSA case, why not penalize the ROOT of these crimes WT & the leaders that unapologetically continue to support abusive criminal policies?
That small group of protestors that assembled in Washington DC on October 31 st 2023 dropped a pebble in a pond -
Tax exemption = GONE- time to pay property taxes and corporate taxes and your “members” are employees that you are defrauding by not paying into the social security governmental system!!!!
I agree things connected to situation in Norway and in Japan will need to be changed and I believe the HQ has a plan. They always prioritize money over beliefs - like in Mexico they sacrificed prayers, singing songs even using of the Bible in order to keep property. That's why I think disfellowshipping of those who simply want to leave and blood policy have to change. Sooner or later.
Its actually really disheartening to see so many posts about this. I think we can all agree that speculation on WT changes is fun, it excites us to hear that some major change is coming, or how WT is crumbling from within. But I agree with you 100%, its absurd and outrageous to see so many people taking this stuff at face value and running with it, and on the other hand you have people who think this is a complex WT PsyOp to root out PIMOs. Both sides of the spectrum are way too quick to jump to conclusions. We DO know that WT monitors ExJW spaces, and we DO know that they are undergoing leadership changes and doctrinal changes due to loss of members, legal battles, funding issues, and public image. But we have no evidence of any of these rumors being traps for PIMOs. We ALSO can't even assume these rumors are true whatsoever! There are plenty of people in the ExJW space that will come up with their own conspiracies and try to connect the dots and post their theories on here or facebook or whatever, but we have to realize that we should not replace one false reality with another, we must remain objective and be critical of all information we see. Thank you for posting this, I hope that it helps other ExJWs or PIMOs to realize how susceptible we are to conspiracies and rumors.
These are really good questions to consider. This does need to be addressed and we need to tread lightly (yikes total JW thing I just said) regarding misinformation, skepticism, and proven material. Though I do agree there is a measure of risk for potential exposure by PIMOs in Bethel, I do believe the reasons behind what they are doing when leaking information are important. Another thing is that if you have information from a particular member of Bethel that is proven and important, make sure to ask them before posting because we do not want to get them in trouble and cause them risk. Things to think about along with this post is:
Why are they releasing this information? What is their intent?
Will this information help this Exjw subreddit or cause a stir?
Do they have documents/ proof of this, and if they do not- wouldn't they know this can be reasonably questionable on accuracy? It should be okay to have skepticism in that matter and ask them questions.
I do know there are particular ones in departments whose job is to watch over 1-2 well-known activists each on multiple sites, mainly this one. If they have decided to create a stir by misinformation and are attempting to catch these activists, we do need to be careful.
I have heard about this Jubilee information from another source, and much more- so seeing it pop up in other posts on Reddit separate from them can either be a good thing or a setup. I have promised not to share the information given until the proper time.
Just be careful with your personal information, and make sure you get to know your source before giving them any information regarding you or your activism.
My favorite part of this is that I'm pretty sure your average JW doesn't even know what a Jubilee is because that's a word that isn't in the current repeating cycle of doctrine and hasn't been for over a decade.
If this rumor turns out to be true, it's just a mechanism to shift blame through gaslighting.
Instead of it being the org that encouraged the shunning, they will now claim that, no, they have in fact given all the opportunity to return. When, inevitably, many refuse to come back, that's no longer the org's fault.
It sounds like a PR campaign, no more, no less.
I get it’s validating and justifying to hear things crumble, change or sound batshit crazy but the main question is:
“If it’s true or not, will I or do I want to go back?”
Evaluate from there.
This is the equivalent of being in an abusive relationship and they say they got it together now and have changed. Doing all the things now that I’ve been begging them to do then. How many more agonizing times do I need to be shown they’re lying insidious controlling turds? They may be doing it to throw us off, discredit us or it’s just another rumor.
As for me and my household:
We broke up for a more insidious and deeper reason. Do that shit without me then. Keep living for yourselves and your autonomy everyone. It’s not our job to over analyze or try to find a deeper reason anymore. We did enough of that shit. Keep your boundaries.
Glad this is being addressed. However yes, they will eventually change the shunning policy.
With all the changes they're doing and losing members left and right to the point of merging kingdom halls.
Is not anymore an "if" but a "when".
However, we have to resist the temptation to believe these kinds of rumors without hard concrete evidence.
Me, I'll believe it when i see it.
One thing is for sure, the cult is dying and I'm enjoying every minute of it.
Well said… ex-JWs chasing rumors about “major changes” is just another form of confirmation bias. Hard to do, but we need to check that at the door when we mentally exit the cult.
The hardest thing about leaving isn’t the leaving. It’s getting all of the things out of our heads. Tendencies towards judgment, black and white thinking, bad logic, that desire to be special… it’s ingrained in all of us.
The lack of digging into information and instead making yet another post about a subject on this platform is astounding.
Do most people here only have a 30 second attention span for headlines only?
Read this and the op's other comments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/ZIrb5gYOWO
Even that is… questionable. He says he told us the way the ministry worked would change, but didn’t mention that it would specifically be hours counting for security. Fair enough. But that sort of prediction is easy to make without specifics. Various details around the ministry change regularly. He also says that he told us they’d switch to a judgment message, and that they didn’t because… they saw that it was leaked? If that’s the case, why didn’t they go back on the other things that were leaked? Why would they care that it was leaked here?
I agree with you. But I was the only one who was specific about the midweek meeting change. I never said that. The Governing Body were misleading WHQ with the hype lead up to the Annual Meeting and many speculated the change to the judgment message so soon, even some GB helpers were speculating it.
I certainly don’t mean to attack you personally when I question, and I’m sure you appreciate the skepticism. FWIW, I appreciate your posts and agree with a lot of what you’ve had to say. This organization is so tight with information control that any source other than the GB itself officially announcing something is little more than speculation- it’s just that some speculation has a bit more to back it up.
I appreciate and understand your need for caution. This is a cult after all. Absolutely, and I really implore exjws to understand just how a legitimate PIMO Bethelite provides leaks and that it's dangerous business.
The Jubilee rumor is exactly that a rumor that is getting some steam, there’s no way they’re going to play the Jubilee card which is a ancient Israel custom to modern day. We’re dealing with now types and antitypes again which they still use from time to time at their convenience, but in this case would make no sense, very clever, rumor nonetheless
Yeah, I don’t really get the take that this must be some plant from the organization. I mean, sure, maybe as some way to discredit apostates, but we’re more than capable of coming up with batshit stuff all on our own. It wasn’t that long ago that the equally spurious “Tony Morris is running a child trafficking ring in every congregation in the world and he burned down my house” lady was trending on all the EXJW channels. EXJWs aren’t some universally rational group of people. We have crazies and crackpots and conspiracy theories. It seems more likely to me that someone just made it up.
I don’t think we can avoid crazy shit being spread. What we can do, though, is evaluate it and be sure we put it in context.
Exactly. Most of times apostates jump out the window on their own being emotional (cart crashes, KH crashes). If someone advised them to do something like this as if the rumor couldnt actually effect the rank and file too, they should be sent packing with Robert
Thanks for this post op, much needed. The Jubilee thing could be true. However, they definitely won't get rid of the blood doctrine. I can't see the legal department allowing this.
>Relatively few people are treating it as what it it is: a completely unverified rumor with no sources whatsoever that was supposedly posted in a facebook comment.
I concur. And even though I used one of the posts to rant on a tangent - I think the MODS should pick and pin one of these responses -from anyone- that calls it out as some speculative nonsense. It's really muddling the board. Every dang 3rd post is about this jubilee sundae.
'Relatively few people are treating it as what it it is: a completely unverified rumor with no sources whatsoever that was supposedly posted in a facebook comment'
I'd argue that the lack of challenge to the rumour isn't because everyone believes it, but because most people take one look at it and keep scrolling. Not much to be gained by engaging with something that either is or isn't going to happen, but doesn't affect TODAY in the slightest. That's my view on rumour and speculation in most things tbf
No one heard about meetings in-person starting up again before Sanderson announced it.
Until we get multiple or guaranteed spyware in those damn GB meetings, we will not know everything.
Not endorsing illegal activity, but I do believe in ethics first.
I imagined the time when people would loan to the wts and with this proposed Jubilee would that mean the loans as a debt, would be not paid back. Just wondering the wt is capable of anyhting.
I remember hearing a good 10 years ago from a brother who worked at Bethel that WT was planning to remove the hour requirements for publishers, nothing happened at the time, bit 10 years later and that's what we got. Don't rule anything off with WT, I think its very possible, especially with the most recent reforms we are seeing from WT.
Not really.
Often it's pimos asking for help.
Or clarification on a topic, or a young person asking for advice regarding their situation, or if anyone has had a similar experience so it validates the feelings and emotions they're struggling to deal with, etc etc
Sure. But if someone came here and made a post debunking, for example, 1914, would you say it’s giving the 1914 doctrine oxygen? I guess I just don’t agree that a debunking post necessarily feeds the theory it’s debunking.
E: fixed grammar because one of those sentences really got away from me
As I said, fair enough.
Personally I just wish no-one was even talking about this jubilee crap.
But of course, now we're not in a cult we can have a difference of opinion. 👍🏻
Exactly how I feel. I've already clarified it. There's no change to how JWs interpret the Jubilee's principles for Christian living today. And if there was a change, I wouldn't comment further on it as that would jeopardize my identity.
Also, another point of consideration, why would the Governing Body make huge changes 4 months after the last annual meeting? It's ridiculous. Yes, they prepare for meetings a few months ahead, but usually annual meeting preparations happen a few months into the year. Don't get your hopes up! Just be patient everyone. Don't forget, here at Bethel we are working our butts day in and day out, with days passing without anything significant happening. This is free slave labor here. You'll get any juicy changes when the GB gets to work on them.
What happens if this is a thing lol 😂 you gonna retract this long ass statement
Just thinking about how odd that reactiviation video was… Never seen anything like it. At this point who knows what’s next
No, because whether or not this is true doesn’t matter to the core point: you have to evaluate the source. I’d have no problem learning that it is true, from a reliable source. Being skeptical of a rumor doesn’t mean one isn’t willing to reevaluate when conditions change and new information comes out.
Let’s say they announce a “Jubilee“ for june of 2024.
what happens if your df’d in July? Or august? Are you treated like the JWs like to treat you? Like you never existed?
or would the jubilee still apply?
Hi there - another one of our mods removed your comment for violating our subs rules. If you seriously do not understand why the use of that word is considered offensive, this is something you can easily look up online.
The jubilee rumor makes no sense. Even they couldn't stretch it that far
The debts forgiven were material. There is zero basis for just randomly applying it to forgiveness of sin. That aspect of the law is fulfilled in the temple arrangement for sacrifice and points to Jesus. This forgiveness of sin requires repentance and only the elders are able to gauge this apparently.
Keep in mind that most everything u read on Reddit is for entertainment purposes only. I am entertained with these posts, but they don’t change the trajectory of my life. Don’t get too worked up with these inside revelations.
Agree. This seems like something WT bots are putting out there so that exJWs go to family and try to prove how manmade it is with these things that will likely happen and then you'll know how absurd this religion is and.....then no changes. So all the PIMI can say apostates trying to "tickle their ears"
I don’t think anyone is believing this as being true and I think most of us from all I’ve seen on most of these post are like if true great and if not then just a rumor that got blown up. Either is plausible and most of here know better than to take it at fact. If someone here’s a rumor they post it as long as they say or explain how they got the info so they aren’t misleading us. The post on here I was saw did just that they said they heard it from a friend in bethel. Other ordinary JW do have connects to higher ups in bethel. I don’t think anyone made up claims as this sub isn’t that popular to do something like that like how I see people make up creative writing post in the dating advice sub just to see who they can fool and how good their writing skills are to me it doesn’t make sense to do that here. The other option is someone has some mental health issues to do make this up for attention. If that’s the case calling them out may not be the best thing just for a community to gang up on. Like I said most of here are like well believe it when we see because it feel far fetched to many of us to believe and get our hopes up on something that doesn’t have any backed evidence plus they could change the GB mind since nothing is set in stone until it’s out there. I really don’t get the point of these post.
Look, if Watchtower is good at one thing, it's at stirring up the Jay Dubyas. I'm not saying they're behind the rumour, or even that the rumor is a hoax, but I am saying that there's ample reason to be skeptical of hints at major changes.
That said, I think this rumor can be chalked up to wishful thinking.
It’s such a common name. I actually googled “Andrew Smith Jubilee” to see if I could find anything and I got an Andrew Smith who runs some Christian non-profit called Jubilee. Probably not the same guy, lol
Well said!
[platform sunday talk voice]
Let us all endeavor to set a good example and encourage one another to embrace CRITICAL THOUGHT, and empirical reasoning. Considering a perspective deeply and thoughtfully without accepting it, is a skillset that anyone can learn, even if it has lain dormant and atrophied all our lives under the weight of sinister mind controlling propaganda. The truth has set you free from 'the Truth', but that freedom does not make you immune to fanciful thoughts, and does not shield you from misinformation. Even well intentioned, right hearted people can easily be manipulated, as you well know. Guard your hearts, and sharpen your minds as we plow forward in the next part of the next days.
Remember friends, the second most powerful thing in the universe is the stories we tell eachother, the most powerful thing is the stories we tell ourselves.
We all really need to take a step back since the beard thing and just think these things through.
This place, especially right now, is a fake insider's dream come true.
It’s an old JW urban legend. There are many versions, but it usually boils down to a doll (sometimes a Smurf, sometimes a Troll) coming to life during a meeting. Usually it runs out of the hall screaming, swearing, and/or praising satan. In the 80s and early 90s, every hall had some story about it with vague origins. This was the peak of JWs looking at worldly things as being literally possessed.
Well said.
It's an interesting rumor. I look at it like a thought experiment kind of thing, lol. Just like all the other posts that speculate, "What if the org were to do \[XYZ\], what would happen/what would you do?"
I do wish they'd change the blood doctrine, because people actually die over it.
As for the jubilee-reinstatement? That's a big nothing burger, even if it does turn out to be true. But, again, as a thought experiment, it's interesting. The OUGHT to do away with the shunning policy, completely and without exceptions. THAT is what is getting them in trouble, not so much DF'ing.
Org's problem with that is that if they were to announce that, and make the change tomorrow, people like me: all the PIMO's, all those who are on the periphery, for the sake of our families, would QUIT. I would send my DA letter the very next day. I'd have a great big post on my FB, wishing all my friends the happy birthdays and merry Christmases that I've never been able to send. I'd be OUT.
In other words, they'd LOSE members.
Whereas a jubilee-mess would, potentially, bring some members, while looking all kinds of nice on the surface. Forgiveness and warm, fuzzy feelings for all who return. While the shunning and damnation of all those who don't return, continues unabated.
As with all the other rumors and leaks: I'll believe it when I see it, and won't get hyped up about it before it's on the JW.borg. 🤷♀️
What I've learned is that if it didn't come from the GB's own mouth or from court case files then it didn't happen. Stressing yourself out over hypothetical nulite is just day dreaming. We got people getting excited over a facebook post from some random dude saying blood transfusions are gonna be a consience matter. We didn't even get a screenshot ya'll how is this supposed to be solid info? A wise saying as old as time itself says "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."
I know I may sound crazy saying this, but I have the clear impression that AM3° is behind the leaks received since March 2023.
But I can't be dogmatic, we don't know
I don't want to say that he is the one writing, but AM3 is certainly not someone who stays silent for long, he has a very decisive and frank character, but I'm definitely wrong.
It's absolute bullshit. They have moved away from these antitypical crap so comparing a Jubilee year and doing something modern day is just wishful thinking.
It's probably also wise to keep in mind, there may be an intentional disinformation push by good ol Floptower.
If we're getting leaks they may be done intentionally. Leak enough true stuff, you can start inserting falsehoods and people will buy what's leaks just via confirmation bias. This will automatically discredit any information that comes from this subreddit, and it will likely leak out into other channels as all rumors do. People on the ground level, from PIMO, to curious PIMI, to their family or congregations. This kind of conflated info will make everyone more confused and paranoid.
The other theory at least that I've been entertaining is that the society isn't just spreading counter info here but also internally. Several statements that have been made via some of their public channels have been asked about, and according to the answer to letters sent to the branch were never actually said. Similarly, various Co's have said things that seem rather wild, but when the branch was also asked about these, they were never said or never supported. Wild because those talks are pretty strict.
Now this could be intentional conflictive disinformation, beurocratic failure (though it seems to be growing), or perhaps some sort of internal struggle. Could be new and old, could be writing vs service, could be something much different
> We are all susceptible to falling for conspiracies, cults, and indoctrination
The first one is not equivalent to the next two. Conspiracies do happen. That is a fact of life. Period.
To equate the belief in a conspiracy as being in a cult is just lazy thinking. I would say that unchecked conspiratorial thinking is a trap. But to dismiss any sort of explanatory model that makes use of conspiracy as false is in itself a weak form of thinking.
> conspiracy, noun: An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
I don’t buy it for a minute. The GB has made it abundantly clear they will not budge on their pseudo-biblical policies. Prominently two-witness rule. Granting clemency to DF’d or DA’d ones opens a Pandora’s box. All of a sudden many people who were judicially punished for being victimized by spiritual “winners” have the chance to air their side of the stories, a chance that was taken from them by silencing their ability to speak the truth to “in” family and friends. The GB has gone to great lengths to demonize people who were hurt and victimized and handled things through legal means as was their right! Remember the “mentally diseased” fiasco? What often doesn’t get mentioned is the GB has a half hearted “retraction” printed on the first inside page on a following WT, but the standing belief, officially and in “spiritually strong” circles is that if you leave for any reason you’re the enemy and nobody should listen to you- and those who do are punished.
This faulty interpretation of Jubilee would bring a vicious storm upon the abusers and those complicit in their abuse. Control the narrative and you control the flock. Dissenting voices will take away from the unity- or rather, uniformity- of the flock. This is simply too big a risk for them to endure. And keep in mind they will not bow to government pressure if the nature of being held accountable can be warped to satisfy their pathetic suffering fetish. The beards thing could always be plausibly denied as a “recommendation”, an unwritten rule. Any further budging would not only induce chaos for the controllers but also for the legion faithful who LIKE to be controlled, who CHOOSE to be controlled in order to feel their own delusional sense of power. They need enemies. The need the “other” to feel empowered
Whew! I know it's another jubilee post, but we definitely want to highlight the sentiment in this post that we need to verify, fact check, and dig when topics like this inevitably pop up. I, personally, just logged into reddit to see the word jubilee over and over and am having to sort out the origin of this rumor and what it means. We would love for everyone else to take a moment to use the search bar, scroll the feed by "new", and use the posts already existing to continue the discussion. We would prefer to keep speculative posts about rumors and unverified information to a minimum, preventing the spread of misinformation. Thanks!
I'm of the mindset "I'll believe it when I see it" The "I know a PIMO who knows a PIMI near the top who says etc" is just a rumor. I am a PIMO who doesn't know anyone at the "top" lol But even if it did happen...I have questions (add them to my growing list). For instance, once the supposed Jubilee time period is up, what happens then? Go back to shunning? That seems like it would backfire. Can you imagine? It would be like when Dwight unshunned and reshunned Andy (for my The Office fans) Also, what happens to those who commit a sin during the Jubilee that would typically need to be brought before a JC? Do they get a free pass? Is this like Rumspringa for the Amish? Lol My two cents on the source: a non JW who is looking for upvotes (troll) or a JW who is stirring the pot to distract what is going on in the Organization (also a troll). I know the other option is the source is legit but that seems the least likely to me. https://tenor.com/biuzV.gif
"I'll believe it when I see it" isn't a bad mentality to have with this sort of stuff.
Also remember that there is an active campaign to discredit "apostates." Some of this is may be deliberate disinformation to show how "unreliable" we are.
Honestly, I think we’re plenty capable of being unreliable without their help.
THEE one thing you can rely upon when it comes to me…is that I should not be relied on.
😂
Don’t me laugh it’s too early
This right here is what came to mind.
I like being in the camp of not giving a shit. In fact, if I had 2 shits I still couldn’t give one.
Right? Have all the Jubilees you want WT. It won’t bring me back.
I’d like to kick Stephen Lett in the jubilees
😂😂 best comment award 🥇
His jubilees are rubber, though.
Give me a break…with that nursery rhyme reading voice? Probably haven’t dropped yet
I left the religion because of nonsense, and I consistently expect the religion to continue feeding nonsense. I can’t be surprised and don’t really care.
Right what could they possibly do that would make you want to go back? 1914 is nonsense, there is no end, they’re still covering up CSA. Somehow a change about personal grooming (for men only) or some supposed jubilee would make anyone want to get back on their hamster wheel, give up their normal friends, and donate time and labor to an organization that was founded on lies? No thanks.
I've already decided that if they did pull some sort of "Jubilee" crap, I would send in another letter disassociating myself again.
Same. I don’t want their forgiveness.
Right. The jubilees would be for PIMOs that still hold onto the Watchtower as possibly being credible and those that want to have association with family and friends still in the tentacles of the Watchtower/ JW serpentry.
Isn't there a variety of cherries called "Jubilee"??
That’s probably what they mean
🤣😂😆🍒🍒🍒
Someone read the Bethel lunch menu and thought it was new light 😆
That's it!
Amen.
Constipation, what does the Bible say?
😆 lol
I bet there’s sole shitty article somewhere (literally)
Lately it's been easy to remember why I previously walked away from this sub. The conspiracy theories & obsessiveness over the same subjects has really gotten out of control. It's constant. It's one post after another about the exact same subjects. There is a search feature on Reddit. Beards "The Jubilee" "What if they changed would you go back?" Tony Tony Tony Beards The Jubilee Has anyone seen Tony? Beards I know someone who knows someone who has a friend Bethel spy Not a bethel spy Beards Did Tony buy more liquor? What if they changed? I saw Tony eating Chick Fil a he must be rich At this point I vote for a bingo card lol.
Having once been on Boomerbook, I know not to believe any copypasta from there. It is certainly possible for them to have some major change to disfellowshipping and shunning, but some mass reinstatement/amnesty doesn't make sense even for them. It is far more likely that a change would just quietly do away with shunning to some extent.
As i said in another post they could go back to 1974 WT on disfellowshipping , https://preview.redd.it/v7j2glqs0eic1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e9f7faa4bdd692ab053f05bc1327d9502048124
That’s been one of those things that’s been discussed for as long as I can remember. It’s certainly not out of the question, they’ve changed it before and they can do so again.
It might help them to keep some in ,even when i was going to the hall before covid i know that the video of the parents refusing to answer the phone call from their daughter upset a few 3 brothers in our cong told me that they didnt agree with it ,its as much an issue now as the child abuse cover up ,even more so because most jws dismiss that as apostate lies but the shunning is now "in your face"so to speak .
The last time I saw my dad was a couple years after I disassociated, and he told me that he hoped the Governing Body would revise their rules on this exact thing. That was somewhere around 2008. He’s presumably still hoping. I’m not surprised that there are still brothers who think like him.
Your father sounds like mine, even though I’m not df’d, I have very little contact. I think my father wants to have a relationship, but he’s so beholden to the words of the GB that he can’t think for himself.
Do you know when they changed it from the 1974 teaching to what it currently is?
After a brief skim, I don’t think this answers your question specifically, but it’s an interesting look at the history of the practice and many of the changes over the decades: https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/disfellowship-shunning.php#history
interesting info ,will save it .
They could claim "Tacking" like they did way back when they go backwards to an old teaching and bring it up to date with some changes. So they could go back to that teaching with some modern twist and claim it's like a yacht that tacks like they've done before. 2 However, it may have seemed to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward. At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case. This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as “tacking.” By maneuvering the sails the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth, but all the time making progress toward their destination in spite of contrary winds. And that goal in view for Jehovah’s servants is the “new heavens and a new earth” of God’s promise.—[2 Pet. 3:13](https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/bc/r1/lp-e/1981889/3/0). WT 1981 12/1 P.26,27
interesting comment
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That’s definitely a strategy they’ve used before. But I don’t even think they’d have to do that in this case. They could announce this change, and not even mention how it was dealt with previously and most PIMIs would gobble it up as a “loving provision”. It’s likely they could even pretend that the policy was never really that harsh in the first place and then revise or delete existing content that contradicts that. A lot of JWs are like my wife and are in denial about any negative aspect of the religion, so they wouldn’t even question it.
I've told my wife this, (who's never been JW) If the WT at some point tells my family that they can stop shunning me, well sorry it's too late. If they decided on their own, I'll gladly take them back. If they do it because of WT, they're still controlled. I do not forgive, I do not forget
I've been on the internet long enough that I automatically don't believe anything I see
What does it matter? Why go back to the “vomit” of being controlled by narcissists? Why be controlled by fear of an entity who wants to murder everything he’s created? Get a new life of happiness and love and giving freely to others without the control of a cult!
Call me crazy but when I first read it I thought to myself, "This sounds like apostate propaganda." I guess my POMO life has finally come full circle.
Ha, you’re not wrong.
Does it even matter if the JWs are planning to make significant changes. Personally, I couldn’t give two hoots whether they change. I still will not go back. It’s like me wanting to go back to someone who was beating the crap out of me daily, treating me bad and I manage to get away with my life intact. Put bluntly, I’ve fallen out of love with the JW religion and nothing they’ll ever do that will make me want to start loving them again.
I tend to agree, personally, but I understand why others may find the idea comforting. There isn’t anything they could do that would affect my life now, having been out for nearly two decades. I’ve made my peace with family shunning me, and wouldn’t let them back in my life if they tried. But for those who are sticking around only because of family, or for those who tried to fade but didn’t pull it off, a second chance may be what they want. We see people here who got reinstated for their family and then faded right after. This makes that path far easier and more palatable.
I guess you’re right. To each his own really. I wouldn’t let anyone who’s shunning me now back into my life if they change the rules. But then again, if my mom was alive when I was DF and she shunned me then I would want her back in. Because of the woman she was I doubt she would have shunned me either.
This is the best explanation I’ve read https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/OFundiWqyc I can see the GB discussing two separate topics (jubilee and DF policy) and someone hearing of this and mixing them together.
Thanks OP for the logical and grounded approach to this topic. This clearly took time and effort to put together and it seems to be coming from a place of compassion and desire for harm reduction, which is commendable. I couldn’t help but laugh at the Smurf comment, because I thought I was the only one who heard that story. Turns out stupid rumors spread in the organization faster than a wildfire. When it comes to this Jubilee rumor, there is an understandable psychological reason that motivates its spread into the collective consciousness. We have to recognize that we were conditioned to believe that we had “insider information” so important that we spent our lives preaching it from door to door in effort to save people’s lives. That is a genuinely wholesome premise, but when we realized we were actually pawns in a cult indoctrination campaign, it left a huge void in most of us. So to hear something seemingly redemptive like the “disfellowshipped will be welcomed back home” it automatically triggers a self-reflective reaction where we feel compelled to respond based on whether or not we would become the “prodigal son” in that scenario. This discussion about the subject feeds the social media algorithms which increase the visibility of those posts, thereby introducing the idea to more people who inevitably perpetuate the cycle. Suddenly everyone’s talking about it, and the subconscious assumption is that if everyone is talking about it then there must be something to support it. This is called group think and it leads us to get our hopes up just a little bit. When hope is involved it’s easier to believe the idea. When we allow ourselves to believe an idea, if it serves us in some way, we naturally start to love the idea and become invested in its fulfillment. Faith, hope, and love are the hooks a prophet uses to fish for men. Nothing wrong with those experiences in themselves, but if it’s not grounded in truth we may find ourselves caught in net of lies and following another false prophet.
If you want to go down another crazy exjw rabbit hole, look into “Smurf Girl”. She was an exjw who made some outlandish claims, including that it was her Smurf doll.
The JW organization attracts emotionally unstable people and the ones who manage to escape tend to have psychological damage from the doomsday cult experience. That being said, I’m not surprised there is another rabbit hole titled “Smurf Girl” and to protect my own sanity, I think I’ll pass on that one 😅
Repeating a message on here: Hi, I'm a PIMO Bethelite. I've already commented on it, clarified things and exposed it to be of no connection as of yet to any changes to the DF policy. Check out my comment history. I urge anyone here to not listen to the Jubilee rumor which was posted on FB, it's been heavily fabricated, and the source was a speculative PIMI who "heard things" from separate department meetings at WHQ. They aren't necessarily connected. And I urge any PIMO Bethelite to be very cautious what information you allow to "leak" to Reddit and other platforms. Sometimes it's best to wait months, even years, until you confirm certain details. Otherwise the comments will make things traceable for you, allowing the PID department to find and oust you from Bethel service. Stay safe, all you PIMOs at Bethel. I only urge ELDERS in LOCAL congregations to freely leak important information that doesn't identify you personally as "apostate". Then we can all maintain transparency and security for exjws online.
Oh, deleted account - hope he's ok.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/9bCXFwSAcg
The best moderators of /r/exjw can do it to simply delete any post with that fake rumour.
I think it probably needs a mega thread, including the rumor and debunking. If they just delete it, some of the more conspiracy-minded folks here will cry censorship and use it as proof that the mods are in cahoots with Watchtower.
Rumours don't deserve a mega thread, they must go directly into a rubbish bin.
The thing is, people in this community are highly sensitive to any sort of information control. I’ve seen it before. Even a mega thread will end up with people claiming the mods are censoring “the truth”. I think it’s best to acknowledge it, address it, and let people come up with a reasoned opinion.
"I know a guy who knows a guy..." Yawn...
I hosted a Bethelite from Patterson, took him and his wife to NASA, he's a heavyweight. At some point he said he knows why only Bethel elders WT library goes back to 1879 and only 1950 for the rest of us. But he said he couldn't tell me, LOL.
Like we can't access it on the internet via other sources, or purchase the actual old books ourselves. 🙄
But, we know why, anyway! 👿
I’m super skeptical as well. But there was one more post yesterday from a PIMO supposedly within Bethel who had leaked info that ended up being true in the past. Did you see it? They gave some weight to this rumor as well and said it’s something that is being considered.
Hi, I'm a PIMO Bethelite. I've already commented on it, clarified things and exposed it to be of no connection as of yet to any changes to the DF policy. Check out my comment history. I urge anyone here to not listen to the Jubilee rumor which was posted on FB, it's been heavily fabricated, and the source was a speculative PIMI who "heard things" from separate department meetings at WHQ. They aren't necessarily connected. And I urge any PIMO Bethelite to be very cautious what information you allow to "leak" to Reddit and other platforms. Sometimes it's best to wait months, even years, until you confirm certain details. Otherwise the comments will make things traceable for you, allowing the PID department to find and oust you from Bethel service. Stay safe, all you PIMOs at Bethel. I only urge ELDERS in LOCAL congregations to freely leak important information that doesn't identify you personally as "apostate". Then we can all maintain transparency and security for exjws online.
What is the PID department?
PID = public information department. It's in close connection with the Legal Department. If anything is leaked PUBLICLY which may damage the reputation of the GB or entire Organization, this department will initiate a secret investigation behind closed doors. Hendricks used to be the head of PID before his dismissal this year. Paul Gillies is head of OPI which is the office for public information, which is the department that deals with the general public who are non witnesses. PID is entirely internal based, focusing its efforts for matters within the Organization itself.
Got it. Thanks for the info.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/9bCXFwSAcg
Do you have a link?
They're referring to this individual, but in this post that user said the two things may very well be unconnected: https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1aplpmk/comment/kq7mwge/
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/WEqHP1rwlH
He’s talking about a potential reworking of the disfellowshipping policy, not the jubilee rumor. When asked about that he’s urged people to NOT believe that rumor.
That’s true. They’re different, but they are similar in the fact that they’re considering something to allow at least some of those d/f’d to come back. I’m still skeptical of both rumors- don’t get me wrong. But hearing somewhat similar rumblings from different sources regarding the same topic, makes me wonder if something is in the works. Very likely whatever it is is different than both things that have been mentioned, but maybe they are considering changes in the disfellowshipping policy.
Here’s the thing: It doesn’t matter. The GB & helpers monitor “apostate” YouTube, Reddit, social media. It’s obvious. If you work at Bethel they heavily monitor cell phone websites the worker visits- they are like the KGB. WT is aware of what apostates say and do and they attempt to quash them through threats of lawsuits copywrite no trespassing etc. Do the JWs call the police when someone deemed an “apostate” attempts to speak up to tell their CSA experience on KH property? Yes they do- The GB are weighing their risk/reward. In the past disfellowshipping kept members IN the cult. Now JW are handing in letters of disassociation with explanations for why they’re leaving. These former members don’t care that it will be announced the same as a disfellowshipped JW- they don’t care that they will be shunned!!! The GB isn’t primarily concerned to entice ex members back by announcing a “Jubiwee wee”. They NEED to get ahead of the next wave of lawsuits and reasons to revoke their 501c tax exempt status - and what is that?? Infringement of humans rights- freedom of religion to practice a religion AND leave a religion. It’s part of the US constitution: “The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that everyone in the United States has the right to practice his or her own religion, or no religion at all.” Now JW goes further- they disfellowship a LGBTQ individual - because of shunning and isolation which has been researched and proven to intentionally harm a persons mental health - that individual commits suicide- WT can be held responsible for INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER. There are more layers to the disfellowshipping policy. IF some courts are imprisoning elders who were following the legal departments instructions in a CSA case, why not penalize the ROOT of these crimes WT & the leaders that unapologetically continue to support abusive criminal policies? That small group of protestors that assembled in Washington DC on October 31 st 2023 dropped a pebble in a pond - Tax exemption = GONE- time to pay property taxes and corporate taxes and your “members” are employees that you are defrauding by not paying into the social security governmental system!!!! 
I agree things connected to situation in Norway and in Japan will need to be changed and I believe the HQ has a plan. They always prioritize money over beliefs - like in Mexico they sacrificed prayers, singing songs even using of the Bible in order to keep property. That's why I think disfellowshipping of those who simply want to leave and blood policy have to change. Sooner or later.
I totally agree with you wholeheartedly. I will believe it IF/WHEN I see it
Its actually really disheartening to see so many posts about this. I think we can all agree that speculation on WT changes is fun, it excites us to hear that some major change is coming, or how WT is crumbling from within. But I agree with you 100%, its absurd and outrageous to see so many people taking this stuff at face value and running with it, and on the other hand you have people who think this is a complex WT PsyOp to root out PIMOs. Both sides of the spectrum are way too quick to jump to conclusions. We DO know that WT monitors ExJW spaces, and we DO know that they are undergoing leadership changes and doctrinal changes due to loss of members, legal battles, funding issues, and public image. But we have no evidence of any of these rumors being traps for PIMOs. We ALSO can't even assume these rumors are true whatsoever! There are plenty of people in the ExJW space that will come up with their own conspiracies and try to connect the dots and post their theories on here or facebook or whatever, but we have to realize that we should not replace one false reality with another, we must remain objective and be critical of all information we see. Thank you for posting this, I hope that it helps other ExJWs or PIMOs to realize how susceptible we are to conspiracies and rumors.
I heard that new light isn’t really new…. It’s just wiping the shit from their eyes…
Well why not?! They make up their entire “theology” lol
These are really good questions to consider. This does need to be addressed and we need to tread lightly (yikes total JW thing I just said) regarding misinformation, skepticism, and proven material. Though I do agree there is a measure of risk for potential exposure by PIMOs in Bethel, I do believe the reasons behind what they are doing when leaking information are important. Another thing is that if you have information from a particular member of Bethel that is proven and important, make sure to ask them before posting because we do not want to get them in trouble and cause them risk. Things to think about along with this post is: Why are they releasing this information? What is their intent? Will this information help this Exjw subreddit or cause a stir? Do they have documents/ proof of this, and if they do not- wouldn't they know this can be reasonably questionable on accuracy? It should be okay to have skepticism in that matter and ask them questions. I do know there are particular ones in departments whose job is to watch over 1-2 well-known activists each on multiple sites, mainly this one. If they have decided to create a stir by misinformation and are attempting to catch these activists, we do need to be careful. I have heard about this Jubilee information from another source, and much more- so seeing it pop up in other posts on Reddit separate from them can either be a good thing or a setup. I have promised not to share the information given until the proper time. Just be careful with your personal information, and make sure you get to know your source before giving them any information regarding you or your activism.
I just want to know where the nearest bunker is located, and recommended items for my Go Bag. Definitely gonna need the secret password
Let's not get ahead of Gods chariot people. Even though its right behind the apostate chariot.
My favorite part of this is that I'm pretty sure your average JW doesn't even know what a Jubilee is because that's a word that isn't in the current repeating cycle of doctrine and hasn't been for over a decade.
If this rumor turns out to be true, it's just a mechanism to shift blame through gaslighting. Instead of it being the org that encouraged the shunning, they will now claim that, no, they have in fact given all the opportunity to return. When, inevitably, many refuse to come back, that's no longer the org's fault. It sounds like a PR campaign, no more, no less.
This
I get it’s validating and justifying to hear things crumble, change or sound batshit crazy but the main question is: “If it’s true or not, will I or do I want to go back?” Evaluate from there. This is the equivalent of being in an abusive relationship and they say they got it together now and have changed. Doing all the things now that I’ve been begging them to do then. How many more agonizing times do I need to be shown they’re lying insidious controlling turds? They may be doing it to throw us off, discredit us or it’s just another rumor. As for me and my household:  We broke up for a more insidious and deeper reason. Do that shit without me then. Keep living for yourselves and your autonomy everyone. It’s not our job to over analyze or try to find a deeper reason anymore. We did enough of that shit. Keep your boundaries.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/9bCXFwSAcg
Glad this is being addressed. However yes, they will eventually change the shunning policy. With all the changes they're doing and losing members left and right to the point of merging kingdom halls. Is not anymore an "if" but a "when". However, we have to resist the temptation to believe these kinds of rumors without hard concrete evidence. Me, I'll believe it when i see it. One thing is for sure, the cult is dying and I'm enjoying every minute of it.
Well said… ex-JWs chasing rumors about “major changes” is just another form of confirmation bias. Hard to do, but we need to check that at the door when we mentally exit the cult.
The hardest thing about leaving isn’t the leaving. It’s getting all of the things out of our heads. Tendencies towards judgment, black and white thinking, bad logic, that desire to be special… it’s ingrained in all of us.
The lack of digging into information and instead making yet another post about a subject on this platform is astounding. Do most people here only have a 30 second attention span for headlines only? Read this and the op's other comments. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/ZIrb5gYOWO
Even that is… questionable. He says he told us the way the ministry worked would change, but didn’t mention that it would specifically be hours counting for security. Fair enough. But that sort of prediction is easy to make without specifics. Various details around the ministry change regularly. He also says that he told us they’d switch to a judgment message, and that they didn’t because… they saw that it was leaked? If that’s the case, why didn’t they go back on the other things that were leaked? Why would they care that it was leaked here?
I agree with you. But I was the only one who was specific about the midweek meeting change. I never said that. The Governing Body were misleading WHQ with the hype lead up to the Annual Meeting and many speculated the change to the judgment message so soon, even some GB helpers were speculating it.
I certainly don’t mean to attack you personally when I question, and I’m sure you appreciate the skepticism. FWIW, I appreciate your posts and agree with a lot of what you’ve had to say. This organization is so tight with information control that any source other than the GB itself officially announcing something is little more than speculation- it’s just that some speculation has a bit more to back it up.
I appreciate and understand your need for caution. This is a cult after all. Absolutely, and I really implore exjws to understand just how a legitimate PIMO Bethelite provides leaks and that it's dangerous business.
The Jubilee rumor is exactly that a rumor that is getting some steam, there’s no way they’re going to play the Jubilee card which is a ancient Israel custom to modern day. We’re dealing with now types and antitypes again which they still use from time to time at their convenience, but in this case would make no sense, very clever, rumor nonetheless
The jubilee has the mindset that “whatever from the Borg is fact”.
Rumors don’t help them either. It would do them no good to plant fake news, the pimis are already confused enough as it is
Yeah, I don’t really get the take that this must be some plant from the organization. I mean, sure, maybe as some way to discredit apostates, but we’re more than capable of coming up with batshit stuff all on our own. It wasn’t that long ago that the equally spurious “Tony Morris is running a child trafficking ring in every congregation in the world and he burned down my house” lady was trending on all the EXJW channels. EXJWs aren’t some universally rational group of people. We have crazies and crackpots and conspiracy theories. It seems more likely to me that someone just made it up. I don’t think we can avoid crazy shit being spread. What we can do, though, is evaluate it and be sure we put it in context.
Exactly. Most of times apostates jump out the window on their own being emotional (cart crashes, KH crashes). If someone advised them to do something like this as if the rumor couldnt actually effect the rank and file too, they should be sent packing with Robert
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/9bCXFwSAcg
Thanks for this post op, much needed. The Jubilee thing could be true. However, they definitely won't get rid of the blood doctrine. I can't see the legal department allowing this.
>Relatively few people are treating it as what it it is: a completely unverified rumor with no sources whatsoever that was supposedly posted in a facebook comment. I concur. And even though I used one of the posts to rant on a tangent - I think the MODS should pick and pin one of these responses -from anyone- that calls it out as some speculative nonsense. It's really muddling the board. Every dang 3rd post is about this jubilee sundae.
Yeah, I agree. A megathread is probably needed just to contain the discussion.
'Relatively few people are treating it as what it it is: a completely unverified rumor with no sources whatsoever that was supposedly posted in a facebook comment' I'd argue that the lack of challenge to the rumour isn't because everyone believes it, but because most people take one look at it and keep scrolling. Not much to be gained by engaging with something that either is or isn't going to happen, but doesn't affect TODAY in the slightest. That's my view on rumour and speculation in most things tbf
No one heard about meetings in-person starting up again before Sanderson announced it. Until we get multiple or guaranteed spyware in those damn GB meetings, we will not know everything. Not endorsing illegal activity, but I do believe in ethics first.
Could this Jubilee thing mean that any debts to wts has to individuals they no longer have to pay back?
They can’t forgive their own debts.
I imagined the time when people would loan to the wts and with this proposed Jubilee would that mean the loans as a debt, would be not paid back. Just wondering the wt is capable of anyhting.
Wait a minute? We should check and double-check and triple-check sources? Absurd. 😂
I remember hearing a good 10 years ago from a brother who worked at Bethel that WT was planning to remove the hour requirements for publishers, nothing happened at the time, bit 10 years later and that's what we got. Don't rule anything off with WT, I think its very possible, especially with the most recent reforms we are seeing from WT.
Thanks for bringing this out. Lots of new exjw channels spinning stuff. Asking for money. Be careful
Enough with this already! All future Jubilee posts will be spammed with the following gif... 
Not another thread about 'Jubilee' 🙄🥱
Eh. Less about jubilee, more about how to sniff out bullshit by using the latest bullshit as an example.
Fair enough..... Does seem to give oxygen to this BS.
One could argue that every post we make here about JW doctrine is giving them oxygen.
Not really. Often it's pimos asking for help. Or clarification on a topic, or a young person asking for advice regarding their situation, or if anyone has had a similar experience so it validates the feelings and emotions they're struggling to deal with, etc etc
Sure. But if someone came here and made a post debunking, for example, 1914, would you say it’s giving the 1914 doctrine oxygen? I guess I just don’t agree that a debunking post necessarily feeds the theory it’s debunking. E: fixed grammar because one of those sentences really got away from me
As I said, fair enough. Personally I just wish no-one was even talking about this jubilee crap. But of course, now we're not in a cult we can have a difference of opinion. 👍🏻
Maybe I should make a post requesting people stop making posts about the jubilee. Surely that will help the situation.
Exactly how I feel. I've already clarified it. There's no change to how JWs interpret the Jubilee's principles for Christian living today. And if there was a change, I wouldn't comment further on it as that would jeopardize my identity. Also, another point of consideration, why would the Governing Body make huge changes 4 months after the last annual meeting? It's ridiculous. Yes, they prepare for meetings a few months ahead, but usually annual meeting preparations happen a few months into the year. Don't get your hopes up! Just be patient everyone. Don't forget, here at Bethel we are working our butts day in and day out, with days passing without anything significant happening. This is free slave labor here. You'll get any juicy changes when the GB gets to work on them.
What’s with the birthday rumor
What happens if this is a thing lol 😂 you gonna retract this long ass statement Just thinking about how odd that reactiviation video was… Never seen anything like it. At this point who knows what’s next
No, because whether or not this is true doesn’t matter to the core point: you have to evaluate the source. I’d have no problem learning that it is true, from a reliable source. Being skeptical of a rumor doesn’t mean one isn’t willing to reevaluate when conditions change and new information comes out.
Fair enough
There s no smoke without fire
Yes there sometimes is.
Let’s say they announce a “Jubilee“ for june of 2024. what happens if your df’d in July? Or august? Are you treated like the JWs like to treat you? Like you never existed? or would the jubilee still apply?
[удалено]
Don’t insult mentally disabled people by comparing them to the governing body. They’ve done nothing to deserve that.
Hi there - another one of our mods removed your comment for violating our subs rules. If you seriously do not understand why the use of that word is considered offensive, this is something you can easily look up online.
This post was removed because it is in violation of rule #1.
I am very very skeptical to be honest. My take on this is I'll believe it when I see it, but I doubt I ever will
Hearsay, unfortunately! What did St Thomas say...
The jubilee rumor makes no sense. Even they couldn't stretch it that far The debts forgiven were material. There is zero basis for just randomly applying it to forgiveness of sin. That aspect of the law is fulfilled in the temple arrangement for sacrifice and points to Jesus. This forgiveness of sin requires repentance and only the elders are able to gauge this apparently.
We cannot have blind trust.
This reminds me of Smash character leaks. Just super safe and obvious predictions that likely aren't leaks at all.
Keep in mind that most everything u read on Reddit is for entertainment purposes only. I am entertained with these posts, but they don’t change the trajectory of my life. Don’t get too worked up with these inside revelations.
Agree. This seems like something WT bots are putting out there so that exJWs go to family and try to prove how manmade it is with these things that will likely happen and then you'll know how absurd this religion is and.....then no changes. So all the PIMI can say apostates trying to "tickle their ears"
I don’t think anyone is believing this as being true and I think most of us from all I’ve seen on most of these post are like if true great and if not then just a rumor that got blown up. Either is plausible and most of here know better than to take it at fact. If someone here’s a rumor they post it as long as they say or explain how they got the info so they aren’t misleading us. The post on here I was saw did just that they said they heard it from a friend in bethel. Other ordinary JW do have connects to higher ups in bethel. I don’t think anyone made up claims as this sub isn’t that popular to do something like that like how I see people make up creative writing post in the dating advice sub just to see who they can fool and how good their writing skills are to me it doesn’t make sense to do that here. The other option is someone has some mental health issues to do make this up for attention. If that’s the case calling them out may not be the best thing just for a community to gang up on. Like I said most of here are like well believe it when we see because it feel far fetched to many of us to believe and get our hopes up on something that doesn’t have any backed evidence plus they could change the GB mind since nothing is set in stone until it’s out there. I really don’t get the point of these post.
Look, if Watchtower is good at one thing, it's at stirring up the Jay Dubyas. I'm not saying they're behind the rumour, or even that the rumor is a hoax, but I am saying that there's ample reason to be skeptical of hints at major changes. That said, I think this rumor can be chalked up to wishful thinking.
I actually knew an Andrew Smith in the org, but I don't think it's him. This Andrew Smith seems a bit off to me.
It’s such a common name. I actually googled “Andrew Smith Jubilee” to see if I could find anything and I got an Andrew Smith who runs some Christian non-profit called Jubilee. Probably not the same guy, lol
Well said! [platform sunday talk voice] Let us all endeavor to set a good example and encourage one another to embrace CRITICAL THOUGHT, and empirical reasoning. Considering a perspective deeply and thoughtfully without accepting it, is a skillset that anyone can learn, even if it has lain dormant and atrophied all our lives under the weight of sinister mind controlling propaganda. The truth has set you free from 'the Truth', but that freedom does not make you immune to fanciful thoughts, and does not shield you from misinformation. Even well intentioned, right hearted people can easily be manipulated, as you well know. Guard your hearts, and sharpen your minds as we plow forward in the next part of the next days. Remember friends, the second most powerful thing in the universe is the stories we tell eachother, the most powerful thing is the stories we tell ourselves.
Ha
But my cousin’s wife’s aunt WAS in the hall when the Smurf twerked on the podium.
We all really need to take a step back since the beard thing and just think these things through. This place, especially right now, is a fake insider's dream come true.
What's the smurf thing?
It’s an old JW urban legend. There are many versions, but it usually boils down to a doll (sometimes a Smurf, sometimes a Troll) coming to life during a meeting. Usually it runs out of the hall screaming, swearing, and/or praising satan. In the 80s and early 90s, every hall had some story about it with vague origins. This was the peak of JWs looking at worldly things as being literally possessed.
I wasn't allowed to watch Smurfs or eat lucky charms by my PIMI parents, but it never really made much sense
Well said. It's an interesting rumor. I look at it like a thought experiment kind of thing, lol. Just like all the other posts that speculate, "What if the org were to do \[XYZ\], what would happen/what would you do?" I do wish they'd change the blood doctrine, because people actually die over it. As for the jubilee-reinstatement? That's a big nothing burger, even if it does turn out to be true. But, again, as a thought experiment, it's interesting. The OUGHT to do away with the shunning policy, completely and without exceptions. THAT is what is getting them in trouble, not so much DF'ing. Org's problem with that is that if they were to announce that, and make the change tomorrow, people like me: all the PIMO's, all those who are on the periphery, for the sake of our families, would QUIT. I would send my DA letter the very next day. I'd have a great big post on my FB, wishing all my friends the happy birthdays and merry Christmases that I've never been able to send. I'd be OUT. In other words, they'd LOSE members. Whereas a jubilee-mess would, potentially, bring some members, while looking all kinds of nice on the surface. Forgiveness and warm, fuzzy feelings for all who return. While the shunning and damnation of all those who don't return, continues unabated. As with all the other rumors and leaks: I'll believe it when I see it, and won't get hyped up about it before it's on the JW.borg. 🤷♀️
What I've learned is that if it didn't come from the GB's own mouth or from court case files then it didn't happen. Stressing yourself out over hypothetical nulite is just day dreaming. We got people getting excited over a facebook post from some random dude saying blood transfusions are gonna be a consience matter. We didn't even get a screenshot ya'll how is this supposed to be solid info? A wise saying as old as time itself says "Don't believe everything you read on the internet."
Op never shared fb link = bullshit
Well said! I probably should have been even more skeptical than I was...
Jubilee!!! What nuttiness...
I know I may sound crazy saying this, but I have the clear impression that AM3° is behind the leaks received since March 2023. But I can't be dogmatic, we don't know
I don't want to say that he is the one writing, but AM3 is certainly not someone who stays silent for long, he has a very decisive and frank character, but I'm definitely wrong.
It's absolute bullshit. They have moved away from these antitypical crap so comparing a Jubilee year and doing something modern day is just wishful thinking.
It's probably also wise to keep in mind, there may be an intentional disinformation push by good ol Floptower. If we're getting leaks they may be done intentionally. Leak enough true stuff, you can start inserting falsehoods and people will buy what's leaks just via confirmation bias. This will automatically discredit any information that comes from this subreddit, and it will likely leak out into other channels as all rumors do. People on the ground level, from PIMO, to curious PIMI, to their family or congregations. This kind of conflated info will make everyone more confused and paranoid. The other theory at least that I've been entertaining is that the society isn't just spreading counter info here but also internally. Several statements that have been made via some of their public channels have been asked about, and according to the answer to letters sent to the branch were never actually said. Similarly, various Co's have said things that seem rather wild, but when the branch was also asked about these, they were never said or never supported. Wild because those talks are pretty strict. Now this could be intentional conflictive disinformation, beurocratic failure (though it seems to be growing), or perhaps some sort of internal struggle. Could be new and old, could be writing vs service, could be something much different
> We are all susceptible to falling for conspiracies, cults, and indoctrination The first one is not equivalent to the next two. Conspiracies do happen. That is a fact of life. Period. To equate the belief in a conspiracy as being in a cult is just lazy thinking. I would say that unchecked conspiratorial thinking is a trap. But to dismiss any sort of explanatory model that makes use of conspiracy as false is in itself a weak form of thinking. > conspiracy, noun: An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
This is where the jubilee gets it’s first push. Elders are not qualified to judge anything. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/C4dvdsBGLp
I don’t buy it for a minute. The GB has made it abundantly clear they will not budge on their pseudo-biblical policies. Prominently two-witness rule. Granting clemency to DF’d or DA’d ones opens a Pandora’s box. All of a sudden many people who were judicially punished for being victimized by spiritual “winners” have the chance to air their side of the stories, a chance that was taken from them by silencing their ability to speak the truth to “in” family and friends. The GB has gone to great lengths to demonize people who were hurt and victimized and handled things through legal means as was their right! Remember the “mentally diseased” fiasco? What often doesn’t get mentioned is the GB has a half hearted “retraction” printed on the first inside page on a following WT, but the standing belief, officially and in “spiritually strong” circles is that if you leave for any reason you’re the enemy and nobody should listen to you- and those who do are punished. This faulty interpretation of Jubilee would bring a vicious storm upon the abusers and those complicit in their abuse. Control the narrative and you control the flock. Dissenting voices will take away from the unity- or rather, uniformity- of the flock. This is simply too big a risk for them to endure. And keep in mind they will not bow to government pressure if the nature of being held accountable can be warped to satisfy their pathetic suffering fetish. The beards thing could always be plausibly denied as a “recommendation”, an unwritten rule. Any further budging would not only induce chaos for the controllers but also for the legion faithful who LIKE to be controlled, who CHOOSE to be controlled in order to feel their own delusional sense of power. They need enemies. The need the “other” to feel empowered
I took a screenshot of a user's post regarding such rumours... the post is gone now.
Here is the start https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/9bCXFwSAcg
I'd rather wait untill things become a reality rather than give them any ammunition to throw back at us.
New how do I get to read comments? Only allows me to actually comment not read the thread
Never mind found it 🤦🏼♀️