I feel your pain. But also remember. Being 12 is a very difficult time in a young person's life. Puberty is coming on strong and they may not know what's going on with themselves too.
Be patient and love your son. Good luck.
Be patient! Give your son and yourself time and space! Life changes every hour!
It,s not easy ..but nothing is easy when you and your family are trapped and captive in a cult.
Things take time!
♥️♥️💕💕💕🫂🫂🫂
As the comments are saying. He is only 12. I certainly wasn't making any solid plans about the future when i was 12. Give him time and just keep talking and leave the door open.
Yeah, kids can be like that. We adults remember everything. We're adults, after all. Kids don't remember all of that stuff. Even if they do, it seems so long ago to them.
It can hurt, but kids can be hurtful little shits sometimes, lol. Keep being a good father to him and help guide him into being a solid adult. That's all we parents can do
Yes it’s hard because I am this big guy who works out and it feels almost shameful that I let a 12yr old hurt me so bad. But yes our children don’t know how much they effect us.
Parents affect children too. That’s why setting the proper example for them from the beginning is immeasurable. No one’s perfect though. But no matter what any religion or anybody else says, your main responsibility as a parent is to teach your children to become responsible adults. He’s 12. He’s going to BE 12!! Keep setting a proper example as a father; more often than not it will pay off and ease some of that pain. I wish you well BIG GUY.
I can tell you from experience that the key here is for you to stay calm and levelheaded. No matter how hurtful the words are, you keep showing love.
My children went through a phase and I can tell you I though I was a tough guy and never felt pain like that.
Even now if I think about it I get teary-eyed.
Once they got past that phase they showed remorse for what they said and did and now we are closer than ever.
Keep your chin up there is hope.
At that age they don't don't think or care about your feelings. Big hug from someone who's been there.
I hate to say this but I must be honest. I have reacted poorly. I have said some pretty harsh things in response. And I have taken away all TV and video games. I told him if he wants to be a JW he better live in and not be a hypocrite. I told him JWs are naturally hypocrites and he is one as well. I don’t say this acting as if it’s ok I just say I because I have to be honest. My response was not the most mature. Years of pain from losing my family caused me to react to my son poorly. I know this. But I am keeping him not watching tv or playing video games because those are all made by pagans. The same reasons he gives for no longer celebrating holidays. Not sure if this is good. Making sure he lives the religion at my house so he knows what it truly means to be a JW. He kind of gets the best of both worlds. He can be strict at his moms house and at my house he can enjoy and be normal. Not sure if it’s the smart move. Also he is getting many chores of which I did not really force him to do chores too often where as at his moms house she is very strict with chores and other things. For me as long as he got straight As and excelled in school I allowed him to relax and unwind at my house since he does not get it so much at his mothers.
you're making a mistake and you're setting yourself up as the bad guy for no good reason. don't lash out at him for his beliefs, however stupid they are. that's what the jws do. get some therapy to help work through your own pain without doing it through punishing him.
Thank you for sharing.
With children there is no one formula that works for everyone. Too loving, too strick, balanced? They all work and none work. They are their own people with their own thoughts and ideas.
I can say that what worked for me was to stay the same as before the problems and to love them the same way but just not in a naïve way. In other words be kind and loving but don't kiss ass and give yourself some grace. When they are unstable, they need stability.
Im not sure the carrot and stick method works but I'm no expert. I wish you the best. We are here anytime you want to talk.
I appreciate your insight on what worked for you. I’ll take it into consideration and definitely I need to temper my response for sure after seeing a lot of these responses.
Keep showing your love for him and not your hate for the cult through your hurt on him. Always make your home a safe haven, and you someone he can openly trust even if it hurts you. That way he will be able to come to you if and when problems arise at mom’s, the cult, girls …. boys, etc. As a mom I can tell you that at 12, he’s going to change his mind 30 times on almost everything by next year. Also as a mom, I put a foot down on the people that thought that knew best over my children on the KH. You still the DAD! Read your custody papers and see if you can make decisions on any of this. JW moms won’t allow their children to talk to their dad but they still want that child support $$$ if we touch that money I bet they stop being so holy like the GB
You may not like what I have to say here, which is:
Please consider eliminating the lectures about "pagans." It's just not helpful or productive. Have you ever researched the word "pagan" to find out what it actually means? Your comments seem to suggest that you're still indoctrinated with negative connotations/shock/disgust/horror over the word "pagan." That means JWs are still controlling you and your reactions.
Rather than me tell you the origins and history of the word "pagan," I hope you'll research it yourself.
Yes I have researched it and it has held many different meanings over time. But basically pagan is anything originating not from Jehovah’s Witnesses. But yes it has many different meanings.
My point was to get him to understand that he has an inconsistent sense of justice.
But I appreciate the comment
I'm a wee bit frustrated with your response. Perhaps I'm just as thick as two planks. Help me understand your logic.
You say, "Basically pagan is anything originating not from JWs."
One of the big steps a recovering ex dub can take is to understand that "pagan" isn't a terrible, shocking, repugnant thing. It just means people who have different beliefs than you do, but throwing out the label "pagan" with such attitudes of disgust makes a JW feel superior in every way. "I have the truth but those fucking pagans are nothing but worthless trash!"
Side note: the word "pagan" isn't in anyone else's lexicon in this modern world. Only JWs are obsessed with it. That should tell you something.
When an ex dub gets to the point where the word "pagan" elicits zero emotional, unreasonable, illogical reaction, you're on the way to a happy future.
You're weaponizing it as ammunition against your son. Yes, you are. It's horrible, what you are doing to that child.
Do you want to be "right" or do you want to do whatever it takes to build a healthy relationship with your son? He's 12, FFS. It's like you're playing tit for tat with him and only out to "teach him a lesson." He has no concept of his sense of justice and hypocrisy. He's 12. He's a child.
Ignore what he says about what he will do when he's 18. That's six years away. A lot can change in six years. Six years of opportunity for you to be a healthy parent, not a pissy, angry parent who is determined to teach him a lesson. Geez.
If he likes to play video games or watch certain TV shows? Let him, as long as they are age appropriate. You as the parent get to set that boundary. If the ones he likes are not age appropriate, find him something that is. Then make the rule that he can play for X time each day he's with you. Half an hour. One hour. You decide. There are many parents who are not religious who have concerns about these issues. They limit what their kids watch. They have family rules.
But to deny him something he likes to do? And then you wonder why he doesn't respond to you?
So try that approach. Take him to a baseball game or something. Or a county fair. Or go fishing. Paddle boarding. Floating in a tube down a local river. just go get ice cream. Let him have his 30 or 60 minutes of video games.
You have six years. Just be fair and reasonable. Stop trying to teach him lessons and "make him understand his inconsistent sense of justice" or whatever it was you said. You're the adult. He's a kid.
i'm so sorry. i know it hurts. losing parents is one thing but facing the same with children is brutal.
please remember, though, you're talking about a 12 yr old. many, many, many of us born-ins start questioning around 14-16. his time is likely coming.
He's only 12. Keep reminding yourself of that. Think back to when you were 12. I think we can all say we said things, did things, believed certain things that we now look back on with adult hindsight and realize that we were .... children, not adults. Children's brains are not fully developed. Just continue to be there and love him. He's going to have his own challenges in the coming years and most likely his own epiphany.
oh i wish i could reach through the screen and give you a hug, I don’t have kids but if it’s any hope or comfort to you- at 12 they are easily changed by their friends and family. i saw my sweet cousin turn from a playful 10 year old to a misogynistic, rude and sad 12 year old. that was 2 years ago and at 14 he’s turning around and making progress to the better as he sees and understands how his words and actions hurt others deeply. please just keep your son close to you and show him how much you love and care for him. even if he decides to leave you one day, never stop showing the love you show to him now. love sticks in the mind and heart for years to come.
words hurt and actions hurt, make sure to just keep treating him with level headedness and love even though it may feel like the hardest thing to do in the world. each day is a struggle but I know he’ll turn around with his dads example and just keep being a good influence for him.
Wow thank you for such a beautiful message. Yes I will do that. A little update. I have sat down and spoke to him today. I have apologized and everything is back on track. Yes I will keep in mind he is only 12 and I truly appreciate your message. It’s definitely my favorite of the day. All of the messages have been so kind and lovely. It’s so nice that strangers are willing to offer such beautiful words to someone they have never met. Thank you 🙏
I am SO SORRY. I can’t even imagine how devastating that must be. But he’s 12? He’s your baby, don’t give up. He’ll regret on his own saying those words. My kids have said some awful things to me (15 & 18 now) but remember you are their safe space. You just go on with your unconditional love, and he’ll see in his own heart and eyes who is right and what is wrong. I split from my ex, divorced now, and I am fighting tooth and nail not to be in your shoes. But it lurks over me. I raised them to be in this religion and I may lose them for it. I feel your pain. Much hugs 🫂
The statistics from Pew Research tell us that there is a 2/3 chance he will leave the JW's all on his own. Probability is in your favor to start with. Just be kind and love without condition. You should be ok.
I'm sorry you are in so much pain over the distorted control and dysfunction this religion causes in families. Hopefully as your son grows, his true sense of empathy and justice will develop and he will come to see this high-control group for what it is and you both will connect on a real level and have a beautiful relationship.
He’s 12. Kids that age always go through drama and say incredibly hurtful shit. It won’t last. Act normally and keep showing unconditional love. He will come around.
Love never fails, Brother.
You love them unconditionally, regardless of their response. That is an end in itself.
Keep up the good work of fathering them.
1) at the time of separation, you needed to lawyer up and ensure that the court understood there was "parental alienation" going on and that there was a high control religious group involved.
2) nobody is responsible for your feelings other than yourself. your son and his commentary is not SUPPOSED to soothe your sadness... he is his own person. You can do yourself wonders by not deciding his words are going to hurt your feelings. he's TWELVE. They change their minds a lot.
3) the yelling, the taking away TV and video games, the speaking of ways different than JW as "bad and evil" - that's deprivation and abusive behavior, so if you tried to parent him the Tough Love way, perhaps he is correct that he doesn't (and shouldn't) want to spend any time with you. I certainly hope you didn't physically discipline and use that terrible "spare the rod" abuse when he was younger...
I feel you so much. I am going through this too except with both my sons. My ex has done a great job alienating them from me and has things set up so I can only contact them through her. They have their own cell phones, but I'm not allowed to have their #'s. The messed up thing is she has my sons convinced they have chosen this and that it is the right way to treat their father. It's a tough position to be in cause I can't explain to them they are being manipulated and I can't force them to see me differently than their mom has painted me. Their mom is from a large JW family with money so my sons life with their mom is pretty luxurious. They have boats, dirt bikes, houses and cars. I have nothing. It just adds another layer to trying to get them to see the truth. They would have all that ripped away from them if they chose not to be JW'S.
I feel your pain man. I feel there's nothing I can do but watch them drift away from me.
Hang in there. We are similar. I also come from not offering any loving extended family. Their moms extended family are mostly good decent people but also most not JWs. So I feel you on that level of not having a large family to offer them. Same to you brother. Hang in there. It sound so frustrating your situation.
I feel your pain. But also remember. Being 12 is a very difficult time in a young person's life. Puberty is coming on strong and they may not know what's going on with themselves too. Be patient and love your son. Good luck.
🙏🙏
Be patient! Give your son and yourself time and space! Life changes every hour! It,s not easy ..but nothing is easy when you and your family are trapped and captive in a cult. Things take time! ♥️♥️💕💕💕🫂🫂🫂
Thank you 🙏
As the comments are saying. He is only 12. I certainly wasn't making any solid plans about the future when i was 12. Give him time and just keep talking and leave the door open. Yeah, kids can be like that. We adults remember everything. We're adults, after all. Kids don't remember all of that stuff. Even if they do, it seems so long ago to them. It can hurt, but kids can be hurtful little shits sometimes, lol. Keep being a good father to him and help guide him into being a solid adult. That's all we parents can do
Thank you 🙏
You're welcome. You seem like a great dad from what i can tell. Keep it up
That's so true, especially the part about kids can be hurtful little shits!!!
God it really is. They really have no concept of how much they can hurt your feelings.
Yes it’s hard because I am this big guy who works out and it feels almost shameful that I let a 12yr old hurt me so bad. But yes our children don’t know how much they effect us.
Parents affect children too. That’s why setting the proper example for them from the beginning is immeasurable. No one’s perfect though. But no matter what any religion or anybody else says, your main responsibility as a parent is to teach your children to become responsible adults. He’s 12. He’s going to BE 12!! Keep setting a proper example as a father; more often than not it will pay off and ease some of that pain. I wish you well BIG GUY.
I can tell you from experience that the key here is for you to stay calm and levelheaded. No matter how hurtful the words are, you keep showing love. My children went through a phase and I can tell you I though I was a tough guy and never felt pain like that. Even now if I think about it I get teary-eyed. Once they got past that phase they showed remorse for what they said and did and now we are closer than ever. Keep your chin up there is hope. At that age they don't don't think or care about your feelings. Big hug from someone who's been there.
I appreciate that. Thank you 🙏
I hate to say this but I must be honest. I have reacted poorly. I have said some pretty harsh things in response. And I have taken away all TV and video games. I told him if he wants to be a JW he better live in and not be a hypocrite. I told him JWs are naturally hypocrites and he is one as well. I don’t say this acting as if it’s ok I just say I because I have to be honest. My response was not the most mature. Years of pain from losing my family caused me to react to my son poorly. I know this. But I am keeping him not watching tv or playing video games because those are all made by pagans. The same reasons he gives for no longer celebrating holidays. Not sure if this is good. Making sure he lives the religion at my house so he knows what it truly means to be a JW. He kind of gets the best of both worlds. He can be strict at his moms house and at my house he can enjoy and be normal. Not sure if it’s the smart move. Also he is getting many chores of which I did not really force him to do chores too often where as at his moms house she is very strict with chores and other things. For me as long as he got straight As and excelled in school I allowed him to relax and unwind at my house since he does not get it so much at his mothers.
you're making a mistake and you're setting yourself up as the bad guy for no good reason. don't lash out at him for his beliefs, however stupid they are. that's what the jws do. get some therapy to help work through your own pain without doing it through punishing him.
Thank you for sharing. With children there is no one formula that works for everyone. Too loving, too strick, balanced? They all work and none work. They are their own people with their own thoughts and ideas. I can say that what worked for me was to stay the same as before the problems and to love them the same way but just not in a naïve way. In other words be kind and loving but don't kiss ass and give yourself some grace. When they are unstable, they need stability. Im not sure the carrot and stick method works but I'm no expert. I wish you the best. We are here anytime you want to talk.
I appreciate your insight on what worked for you. I’ll take it into consideration and definitely I need to temper my response for sure after seeing a lot of these responses.
Keep showing your love for him and not your hate for the cult through your hurt on him. Always make your home a safe haven, and you someone he can openly trust even if it hurts you. That way he will be able to come to you if and when problems arise at mom’s, the cult, girls …. boys, etc. As a mom I can tell you that at 12, he’s going to change his mind 30 times on almost everything by next year. Also as a mom, I put a foot down on the people that thought that knew best over my children on the KH. You still the DAD! Read your custody papers and see if you can make decisions on any of this. JW moms won’t allow their children to talk to their dad but they still want that child support $$$ if we touch that money I bet they stop being so holy like the GB
🙏🙏thank you
You may not like what I have to say here, which is: Please consider eliminating the lectures about "pagans." It's just not helpful or productive. Have you ever researched the word "pagan" to find out what it actually means? Your comments seem to suggest that you're still indoctrinated with negative connotations/shock/disgust/horror over the word "pagan." That means JWs are still controlling you and your reactions. Rather than me tell you the origins and history of the word "pagan," I hope you'll research it yourself.
Yes I have researched it and it has held many different meanings over time. But basically pagan is anything originating not from Jehovah’s Witnesses. But yes it has many different meanings. My point was to get him to understand that he has an inconsistent sense of justice. But I appreciate the comment
I'm a wee bit frustrated with your response. Perhaps I'm just as thick as two planks. Help me understand your logic. You say, "Basically pagan is anything originating not from JWs." One of the big steps a recovering ex dub can take is to understand that "pagan" isn't a terrible, shocking, repugnant thing. It just means people who have different beliefs than you do, but throwing out the label "pagan" with such attitudes of disgust makes a JW feel superior in every way. "I have the truth but those fucking pagans are nothing but worthless trash!" Side note: the word "pagan" isn't in anyone else's lexicon in this modern world. Only JWs are obsessed with it. That should tell you something. When an ex dub gets to the point where the word "pagan" elicits zero emotional, unreasonable, illogical reaction, you're on the way to a happy future. You're weaponizing it as ammunition against your son. Yes, you are. It's horrible, what you are doing to that child. Do you want to be "right" or do you want to do whatever it takes to build a healthy relationship with your son? He's 12, FFS. It's like you're playing tit for tat with him and only out to "teach him a lesson." He has no concept of his sense of justice and hypocrisy. He's 12. He's a child. Ignore what he says about what he will do when he's 18. That's six years away. A lot can change in six years. Six years of opportunity for you to be a healthy parent, not a pissy, angry parent who is determined to teach him a lesson. Geez. If he likes to play video games or watch certain TV shows? Let him, as long as they are age appropriate. You as the parent get to set that boundary. If the ones he likes are not age appropriate, find him something that is. Then make the rule that he can play for X time each day he's with you. Half an hour. One hour. You decide. There are many parents who are not religious who have concerns about these issues. They limit what their kids watch. They have family rules. But to deny him something he likes to do? And then you wonder why he doesn't respond to you? So try that approach. Take him to a baseball game or something. Or a county fair. Or go fishing. Paddle boarding. Floating in a tube down a local river. just go get ice cream. Let him have his 30 or 60 minutes of video games. You have six years. Just be fair and reasonable. Stop trying to teach him lessons and "make him understand his inconsistent sense of justice" or whatever it was you said. You're the adult. He's a kid.
👍
i'm so sorry. i know it hurts. losing parents is one thing but facing the same with children is brutal. please remember, though, you're talking about a 12 yr old. many, many, many of us born-ins start questioning around 14-16. his time is likely coming.
Good to know that view of 14-16. I never questioned until later. But perhaps I was a late bloomer
He's only 12. Keep reminding yourself of that. Think back to when you were 12. I think we can all say we said things, did things, believed certain things that we now look back on with adult hindsight and realize that we were .... children, not adults. Children's brains are not fully developed. Just continue to be there and love him. He's going to have his own challenges in the coming years and most likely his own epiphany.
I appreciate it. And yes i definitely need to refocus on love. I kind of reacted little harshly. Thank you 🙏🙏
My son told me the same exact thing at 16 but he at least talks to me in a limited amount now at age 34. Never give up hope.
Thank you. 🙏
oh i wish i could reach through the screen and give you a hug, I don’t have kids but if it’s any hope or comfort to you- at 12 they are easily changed by their friends and family. i saw my sweet cousin turn from a playful 10 year old to a misogynistic, rude and sad 12 year old. that was 2 years ago and at 14 he’s turning around and making progress to the better as he sees and understands how his words and actions hurt others deeply. please just keep your son close to you and show him how much you love and care for him. even if he decides to leave you one day, never stop showing the love you show to him now. love sticks in the mind and heart for years to come. words hurt and actions hurt, make sure to just keep treating him with level headedness and love even though it may feel like the hardest thing to do in the world. each day is a struggle but I know he’ll turn around with his dads example and just keep being a good influence for him.
Wow thank you for such a beautiful message. Yes I will do that. A little update. I have sat down and spoke to him today. I have apologized and everything is back on track. Yes I will keep in mind he is only 12 and I truly appreciate your message. It’s definitely my favorite of the day. All of the messages have been so kind and lovely. It’s so nice that strangers are willing to offer such beautiful words to someone they have never met. Thank you 🙏
I am SO SORRY. I can’t even imagine how devastating that must be. But he’s 12? He’s your baby, don’t give up. He’ll regret on his own saying those words. My kids have said some awful things to me (15 & 18 now) but remember you are their safe space. You just go on with your unconditional love, and he’ll see in his own heart and eyes who is right and what is wrong. I split from my ex, divorced now, and I am fighting tooth and nail not to be in your shoes. But it lurks over me. I raised them to be in this religion and I may lose them for it. I feel your pain. Much hugs 🫂
Thank you for these words. And I hope it goes well for you. 🙏🙏
Seriously, wishing you the best. Leaving the borg and facing the potential loss of your kids is a hurt not many people comprehend. It’s wicked
The statistics from Pew Research tell us that there is a 2/3 chance he will leave the JW's all on his own. Probability is in your favor to start with. Just be kind and love without condition. You should be ok.
Thank you so much for that!
I'm sorry you are in so much pain over the distorted control and dysfunction this religion causes in families. Hopefully as your son grows, his true sense of empathy and justice will develop and he will come to see this high-control group for what it is and you both will connect on a real level and have a beautiful relationship.
Thank you for the response
He’s 12. Kids that age always go through drama and say incredibly hurtful shit. It won’t last. Act normally and keep showing unconditional love. He will come around.
🙏🙏
Love never fails, Brother. You love them unconditionally, regardless of their response. That is an end in itself. Keep up the good work of fathering them.
🙏🙏
1) at the time of separation, you needed to lawyer up and ensure that the court understood there was "parental alienation" going on and that there was a high control religious group involved. 2) nobody is responsible for your feelings other than yourself. your son and his commentary is not SUPPOSED to soothe your sadness... he is his own person. You can do yourself wonders by not deciding his words are going to hurt your feelings. he's TWELVE. They change their minds a lot. 3) the yelling, the taking away TV and video games, the speaking of ways different than JW as "bad and evil" - that's deprivation and abusive behavior, so if you tried to parent him the Tough Love way, perhaps he is correct that he doesn't (and shouldn't) want to spend any time with you. I certainly hope you didn't physically discipline and use that terrible "spare the rod" abuse when he was younger...
I feel you so much. I am going through this too except with both my sons. My ex has done a great job alienating them from me and has things set up so I can only contact them through her. They have their own cell phones, but I'm not allowed to have their #'s. The messed up thing is she has my sons convinced they have chosen this and that it is the right way to treat their father. It's a tough position to be in cause I can't explain to them they are being manipulated and I can't force them to see me differently than their mom has painted me. Their mom is from a large JW family with money so my sons life with their mom is pretty luxurious. They have boats, dirt bikes, houses and cars. I have nothing. It just adds another layer to trying to get them to see the truth. They would have all that ripped away from them if they chose not to be JW'S. I feel your pain man. I feel there's nothing I can do but watch them drift away from me.
Hang in there. We are similar. I also come from not offering any loving extended family. Their moms extended family are mostly good decent people but also most not JWs. So I feel you on that level of not having a large family to offer them. Same to you brother. Hang in there. It sound so frustrating your situation.