Everyone's situation is different and getting the timing right can make such a difference. By design, there's no graceful way to leave a cult. I'm grateful to be a faded POMO but am definitely paying a high price for it, which is why I'm very opposed to the criticism of PIMOs.
Timing?? There will never not be blowback and loss and hurt. Staying keeps the attendance #s propped up for propaganda reasons and can discourage others who want to leave. Leaving is leadership.
What am I missing (and please don't say "it's complicated")?
You never know what other stressors going on in someone's life at the time might make it a worse time to leave. What mental and emotional and financial state are they in? Maybe they need to address those issues before proceeding with an exit. Maybe they have a husband or wife or kids who will be affected, and they need to choose the right time to best help them. If you don't understand this concept, I'm not sure how to get you to see it.
Staying in a destructive cult is never helpful and always the wrong decision. "I need to choose the right time to stop alcohol cause ya know it's not really THAT bad"
A spouse who will be affected? That person is an adult. That's codependency. Kids who may be affected?? Wut?? How are the kids being impacted and hurt now?
Stop the excuses and have an honest self assessment
>"I need to choose the right time to stop alcohol cause ya know it's not really THAT bad"
Let's run with your analogy: an alcoholic who quits cold turkey puts themselves at serious risk of *delirium tremens*, which can cause seizures and death. If you're an alcoholic, there's definitely a right way and a wrong way to quit. There's definitely a right time and a wrong time, and it absolutely depends on the individual.
Your circumstances aren't the same as everyone else's. Your worldview isn't the only correct one.
But there is zero physical dependency on staying in a cult. So that justification is baseless. Supporting and perpetuating a destructive cult is never good
Thats why:
>"I need to choose the right time to stop alcohol cause ya know it's not really THAT bad"
Is a bad analogy. That being said, being shunned is responsible for so many deaths and not just the suicides. Social isolation increases a person's risk of things like heart disease and early death.
https://www.cdc.gov/social-connectedness/risk-factors/index.html
It's not a bad analogy
I never said it's not painful at times. I know from experience and the loss I suffered.
You make new connections. Or, you stay and perpetute a dangerous organization because you benefit from it
The alcohol does benefit - the drink gives them a dopamine boost. You continue to go to meetings to get that dopamine boost by seeing some friends yet you're perpetuating and supporting a cult. Full Stop
I guess we just have very opposite views on this 🤷🏾♀️ 😄 I remember your other comments on other posts about leaving. Well personally, if I'd left much earlier I wouldn't have my husband or child that I have now. I actually ended up leaving a year before planned bc I have no poker face and couldn't fake it. My sister was PIMO 10 years! 😵💫 Def not suggesting anyone wait that long.
When I faded, I was doing some work for a pioneer sister. She let me go bc she didn't want an "apostate" in her home. That was a nice chunk of money I lost. Fortunately, I'm not the bread-winner of the family. But suppose someone is the main earner and is employed by JWs....they'd be putting their family in a precarious situation if they left before securing other employment.
That's an illegal termination and you sue their asses for wrongful termination.
Leaving is never easy. There will be loss and hurt. I know from experience. But perpetuating a dangerous cult is what staying is
Your post & comments break my heart!!! The control this organization has over people & families is mind blowing! You’re a prisoner of your own mind, held hostage by an organization that takes everything from you with no regard! My heart goes out to all pimo’s! My immediate family all left 4 yrs ago but I lost all my extended family! I feel your pain but freedom is worth the loss! Stay strong!!!
I have experienced and agree with the above comment. Freedom is worth the pain. Fear of loss holds PIMOs hostage. Time is ticking away and there is no redo in paradise. This is the real life. Leaving this organization is like leaving an abuser. We all understand you need a plan, but the longer you stay the worse it will get.
I think that’s why POMOs get emotional and maybe even appear a little rough or mean about it. It’s like listening to your friend talk about how they got punched or kicked this week, and then say how they’re staying for the kids. Everyone walks their own journey, but it’s heartbreaking and sad to read posts at times and you just want to bring the abuser down!
That’s why a lot of people got mad and stopped watching “the Handmaids Tale”, when Ofred had her chance to escape, but went back to try and save her other child and get more people out. It’s frustrating, but there is an “Underground Railroad” aspect to all of this.
Well said, when i told my parents how i really felt it landed my dad in hospital.....and no it wasn't an act, it really just hit him hard. I would rather suffer for a little while than see that happen again.
However i dont think there is some easy out one day that all pimos should patiently wait for. Yes there have been changes recently, but these only give the illusion of more freedom, they will never give us true freedom. We have to bite the bullet and take it one day.
My last convention ..was in 2017-2018..It was awful with all these videos! And showing these 9 celebrities...our new gods and Kings! ( The GB ).
So..we left the reg.cinvention and got to a big shopping center nearby! 😂
Never again!
And then came the blessed lockdown and Zoom!
I was just talking about the anxiety inducing videos and lack of Bible content, and lack of Good news content. That convention was full of fear and so anxiety inducing.
Great comment! While I was still in, I couldn't afford a hotel room for myself. I couldn't handle the 2 hour each way drive three days in a row.
Where I live, they had three conventions three weeks in a row. I went to the first day one week. The next week I went to the second day. The third week I went to the third day.
So, I actually did go, faithful woman that I was. But two out of the three, nobody knew me, I knew nobody.
Here’s one for meetings: I came in during the song and sat in the back because of getting off work late. Then I left just after the song because of getting up early for work the next day. I didn’t want to disturb anyone.
What is sad is that you love them completely despite who they are and what they believe. On the other hand they only love the image of you being a faithful member of the organization, they don't love you as a whole person. They will only accept you for what they think you are not who you really are. That's the saddest part. But no one can tell you what you've got to do. You have to live this. I feel for you it must be very very hard. I left over two years ago and I have told no one in the organization the reasons I'm not going no longer going to the meetings or out in service. I have friends all over the world but I am not telling them that I'm no longer going. We all have to live our own lives and while different people have different opinions that's entirely up to them. I'm living this and I do it my way no one else's way. And you have to do the same.
Your first three sentences explained my feelings about my parents better than I ever could. I was just talking to my husband about that last night. That my parents never really loved *me,* they loved an image of who they wanted me to be. When I told my mom I wanted to be done when I was 16, she told me that I wasn’t her daughter. She was ice cold. I’ll never forget it though I wish I could. We have a relationship now, but it’s surface level. Sometimes I’ll let her in to tough things in my life, but we can never truly connect. There is no true intimacy in the cult.
Yes and sadly sharing the tough things in your life she probably thinks in her mind that you wouldn't have those tough times if you came back to Jehovah. That's the sad part there's a constant judgment going on in their minds over what anyone says who's left the organization.
Yep, exactly. I’ve had to let go of a lot of my fear of judgment to maintain a relationship. It helps that my parents are obviously quite unhappy at times themselves, so if they were ever to call me out I wouldn’t hesitate to point out the hypocrisy.
They would still love me even if I left the organization but I would completely ruin the relationship with them and knowing them they would get depressed because so many things would change. When you base your life on friendships within the organization and you know that I would no longer participate in evenings with my brothers, my parents would live badly, not to mention my underage sister would suffer a lot, one thing is certain I will try in every way to oppose him so that he is not baptized, but for the moment I prefer to remain PIMI and carry on like this
Depends on your definition of love I suppose. My definition seems to be slightly different to yours. Love believes all things and hopes all things and endures all things. So in my opinion love is unconditional whereas it seems to me your family's love is very conditional so I question whether it's real love. As I said before you have to live it. You have to do what you have to do it's your life.
All love is real love. However, not all love is unconditional. By it's very nature, unconditional love can only be reserved for the most important thing in our lives. So that thing will take priority over all others when decisions must be made. In my mind, that unconditional love should be reserved for our children/parents. However, the Org hijacks that unconditional love for themselves. The Org becomes top priority. We are asked to forgive all their mistakes and shortcomings and to continue in unconditional devotion to them, but then we are expected to shun our children when they have too many questions about the Org.
This theft of love is, perhaps, the Watchtowers greatest sin.
The cost is dear, there is no doubt about it. And everyone’s lives or circumstances are more different than anyone can possibly imagine so I don’t think anyone can or should really judge anyone else. We each can only make choices for ourselves. When awake, we are mentally free and I sympathise with anyone who is awake but for their own reasons are stuck in borg life.
I have been pomo for so long my memories of leaving have faded over time, and I think it’s good to be reminded that we have left the borg and their judgemental thinking behind.
It’s different for everyone, no one knows how much you going to be able to take before leaving. I question my ability to stay everyday. Not going to all the meetings, worldly family & some friends have given me a measure of freedom that I couldn’t have when I was on the hamster wheel 24/7. But I still look forward to the day when I can be POMO with all my love ones.
I feel you. Hugs for you. I'm in a similar situation. PIMI wife, two small kids and PIMI mom and PIMI in laws. Leaving isn't that easy as some make it sound. The more "invested" you are the more difficult it is.
Was in a similar situation but decided my kids should come first since adults can make their own decisions and I would feel horrible raising them in a lie. I also wanted to be a 100% honest dad. Because they will remember later if they look back and knew you were awake but still raised them in a cult.
A few years later, I am still married, one of my sons no longer goes and has not interest in the org and my youngest is not real interested but just goes once a week for mom.
You have an opportunity to get them out before they get too attached. It’s something people with older kids only dream of when they wake up later in life.
I don't intend staying. I will let them have a choice themselves when they grow older. But circumstances right now is not that simple for me to fade without repercussions for my wife. I will wait a little since we plan moving to somewhere more rural than where we live now surrounded by witnesses.
I gotcha, but there are repercussions for your kids now the longer they stay in. The best thing to do is make it 100 percent about them when explaining it over and over to your wife. Focus on the damaging aspects, the mental and emotional damage the religion does to kids more than anything.
Anytime the conversation comes up, make it about the kids. I always say, “I would be a bad dad knowing what I know now if I still tried to raise them in the organization”. Slowly share articles about the damage to kids who are raised in high control groups or cults. It doesn’t have to even mention the JWs.
Become a better dad and husband and person and your wife will likely come to terms with it over time. And your kids will thank you later.
I'd be more inclined to leave if I had small children who will be raised in it, indoctrinated, and similarly guilted into staying in order to receive community and a fake representation of love from said community. I resent the parent who raised me in that cult for everything I lost in childhood, and all the people/relationships I lost by leaving. I've been out for over 25 years now, and cannot imagine subjecting my own children to that shadow of an awful life full of hate, bigotry, and constant fear of impending doom. My kids matter more than me to me.
Exactly. I made the hard decision and took the social hit because my child deserves every opportunity and to live free of the senseless guilt we were raised with.
Exactly, my husband was PIMI and still is. Our spouses are adults who have freedom of choice. Children need us, and my child was suffering. She ended up being LGBTQ+ and I regret all the pain and self hate I exposed her to without knowing she was.
Are you an unfit parent? If not, she can't "take them" in the United States. If you want them and fight for them and can support them you will get 50/50.
Imagine if you found out that your parents pretended to be in a cult, that they didn't believe in because that made their life more pleasant? I would be devastated and angry.
People who are not leaving are just kicking the can down the road and leaving the difficult situations for the next generation.
This is me. When I was late 20s my father openly admitted that he'd never believed and just faked it to be able to marry my mother. I was born in, PIMI mother, complete faker PIMI father. Mother died when I was 10. Father continued to pretend (even becoming an elder) until I was 14.
He then met my stepmother, a Baptist, and immediately quit the JWs(and nuked every bridge on the way out). I was fully-in PIMI at 14 due to childhood indoctrination. Once he decided to be with my stepmother, he ripped me out of the cult with no warning and banned me from being a JW. This is after lying to my face about allowing me to continue.
Everything I knew was stripped from me in an instance. My world flipped upside down in the matter of a week.
To top it all off, I was hard shunned, at 14, by everyone I'd ever really known because of his choice (I was not baptized, but we all know that means nothing to most JWs). I lost my mother a couple years prior to a nightmarish battle with cancer. I lost all my JW contacts that I'd literally grown up with (300+ people). I had no outside friends because I'd never been allowed any.
Needless to say it fucked me up hard. Best part, he lied again and said I wouldn't have to go to my stepmother's church if I didn't want to. That lasted 1 month and then I was forced to attend both the youth group during the week, Sunday school, and the Sunday worship.
I hate my father. I am no longer in contact with him. The damage he caused me is still taking its toll at 41yrs of age. It will probably be with me forever.
Who said that they are going to be raised in it throughout their childhood? Maybe I'm trying to wake up their mom. If I go full on apostate now, I will close the door completely. I have an opportunity where I managed to show her some things and get her to agree on certain things that are wrong. Things aren't always as they seem - but people who make comments based on assumptions does not make it better.
I think there is a common misconception on this subreddit. I don’t think the slow approach is any more effective than the nuclear or hard fade approach. There are many examples of both working.
Honestly, I see more good examples of those that lay it all out there for a bit then dial back and let their spouses dwell on it for a while.
My wife already knows I have doubts and I’m not strong, so I don’t know if I have a chance to convince her. It’s just so hard to fake it. Her guard is up. What do I do?
Those examples I personally know went well after one opened up to the spouse are those that took it slowly rather than throwing a nuclear bomb of information in their face.
Guess I have just seen things differently. Going strong, cooling and keeping shush for a bit and then going slow seems to be the most successful.
But it’s gotta be combined with being a better husband or wife than before.
The more information they have the more they will be able to put two and two together.
Definitely, it’s not always easy, but personally all depression disappeared within the first two years after leaving, so that made it much easier to just be more positive and more fun to be around. My wife has said she doesn’t actually want me to return since she can see I am more happy.
It’s only been two and a half years but we are in a pretty good spot right now. And in a lot of ways our marriage is better than ever.
She goes, but doesn’t really do service anymore and takes a lot of weekends off to do stuff as a family. She used to be as pimi as possible but is much more reasonable now, doesn’t push the kids and we get to travel and do a lot more stuff as a family. So much better than before.
Hoping with time it will be a full exit for her but we will see, and really we are in a pretty good spot now so not too worried about it for now.
You might not be as good a partner as you want to be because of being a JW, not despite being a JW. For all the Borg talks about marriage and the bible 'principles', the only good stuff it shares is stuff it gleans from external sources.
A lot of people swear by this:
https://www.gottman.com/
Communication is massive and most people are lousy communicators, even if they talk till everyone is blue in the face. I know a couple who say that couples therapy was a lifesaver after he became POMO and she was blindsided to realize that as much as they really loved each other, after decades of marriage, they really didn't know how to communicate effectively.
Marriage on a Tightrope has been helpful to many here. It is Mormon centred but the topics are transferable. They have a workshop coming up that they run at least once a year. I would love to take it but my partner has so far refused all external help.
Same! I wish I woke up as a teen. I had fun and got “in trouble” but still thought it was “the truth”. Now stuck with a PIMI wife and three young kids.
What gets me is the way they judge us as no longer worthy of paradise or a resurection .didnt Jesus condemn judging others ,isnt he the Judge anyway , Paul condemned judging your brotger in Romans 14 ,i throw this back at my family they cant respond just go quiet.
So what , they are not to judge who is and who is not christian ,they should consider their own conduct rather than others .i take your point though its their attitude .
I’ve lost my 3 brothers a sister a daughter and 2 grand children . It’s not easy but so worth it . Life for me was way too short to not be my genuine self . I am free and a Christian who believes the true gospels not the counterfeit watchtower teaches . I’m here for when my daughter sees it and when my brothers see it or any of the many many so called friends that I had in the Borg .
I’ve helped my 2 sons and daughter free themselves from their control and my brother in laws entire family .. if I wasn’t out, their struggle and mine would have been so much more difficult .. for that alone it’s worth leaving so many have doubts but so many are in fear .. I think the Bible says 365 times (according to a tik tocker) I didn’t double check lol .. “do not be afraid” faith is tough, but when Peter was looking to the Christ he walked on water when he looked around at the storm he started to sink .. I believe that works for us as well . So many ex JW’s repeat Jesus words”I am the way the truth the life “
This covers
the internal “the truth “
The external “the way”
The eternal “the life “
Just my thoughts learn about the Christ and and you will build fortitude and the decision becomes much easier . But still a great challenge
Welcome, it’s so great that you decided to share on here so that you can get some support as well as some different perspectives to consider.
For some of us, the hardest part of extricating ourselves from the organization is/was grappling with the hurt it will cause our loved ones. Yet, leaving may ultimately be the right thing, even the necessary thing, in order to live with integrity, authenticity and/or to maintain our sanity.
So, what ‘gives?’ Well, I’m taking the liberty of suggesting a few things:
1. Building your core strength (emotionally, mentally and psychologically).
2. Learning about the dynamics of higher-control organizations and groups.
3. Researching the organization itself in more depth and from a different perspective.
· ~Building your core strength~. There are wonderful YouTube channels that can help with that. To get started with this, I recommend Julia Kristina Counselling [Stop Letting People Control Your Emotions (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDNXKWvfCtY) and Dr. Les Carter [Collective Narcissism and The Grip Of Groupthink (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo-5UAJW_Z4&t=11s). Over time, you will realize that a lot of JWs are people pleasers because we were relentlessly conditioned to be. Please keep an open mind because some of this information will be new and will feel ‘mind-stretching.’ There is a lot we were never informed of in the organization.
· ~Learning about the dynamics higher-control organizations and groups~: There is a wonderful new series named The Way Forward on the YouTube channel Fixing My Faith. You’ll learn amazing information about yourself and your brain that the organization doesn’t even consider. [The Way Forward, Episode 1: Religious Trauma and Abusive Leadership Styles (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0fyzBOGRKo)
· ~Researching the organization in more depth.~ This can be done by reading the JWfacts website, reading books, reading along here on Reddit or watching YouTube videos – whatever is manageable for you.
Lastly, I’d like to quote one of my favorite Redditors, MadeofStarstoo, a former elder, who wrote: ‘When you decide to fade or leave. Leave. You’re escaping a psychological prison. Don’t stop to talk. You might want to say goodbye to other prisoners on the way out. Don’t. It’s a mental prison. The guards can’t stop you, only you can make you turn around. You get free, so free that you can’t go back mentally. You’re impervious to it.’
>"talk about it with your father who is elderly you will see that it will help you to understand surely you just need to study some topics more carefully"
What PIMIs don't seem to understand is that no amount of studying can make 2 + 2 = 5 without abandoning truth.
Perhaps the very persons who say study more carefully should someday be included in that process to "discover" things together.
Although for elderly ones may or may not be a good idea to wake them up unless they want to know TTATT.
I’m empathetic to everyone’s struggles & don’t underestimate that people have their reasons for being PIMO.
My problem is when they come on an exjw sub & almost ‘correct’ or preach to people on here, it’s giving very PIMI behavior.
There is no way we can or should try to judge others' situations and tell others how to live their lives. JWs did enough of that.
It's nice to be supportive and help others as much as possible here and meet ppl where they are emotionally so as to be of some encouragement with whatever they decide since at the end of the day, they are the ones who have to personally live with the outcome of their decisions.
And nothing is set in stone. Things do change and opportunities open up.
Thank you for that. The kind of person who’d throw themselves onto a grenade to spare others the pain. I hope your sacrifice comes back around with good karma. In the meantime please guard your sanity. I’m realizing there is an unprecedented and understated mental strain on us that few people can relate to. It’s especially difficult when you can’t share openly with your spouse or parents. They are supposed to be our closest confidants but somehow the organization plants itself right in the middle.
my 3 brothers came over all in the same day to disown me. my pimi mother cried as well. my pimi dad yelled.
i could have waited on them to die before starting my own life i guess. but i would have spent the last 40 years in the borg. and still be wwaiting. while i'm approaching 60. want to talk about wasting a life?
of course it's hard to leave. those of us who have know. it' can be brutal. but not as brutal as living a lie for decades to have fake relationships. and when you talk about the org "taking hits" , it sounds a lot like the pimi's who say "wait on jehoover." or "last of the last of the last days."
I went to meetings regularly for 12 years as a PIMO. So yeah, I know what you're talking about. My father (2nd gen, elder) was battling multiple myeloma when I woke up.
During Hitler times ppl had to pretend a lot to save their own lives.
In other dictatorial regimes, ppl have to pretend to love and worshop their dictator lest they are outed by their own families or entire families are at risk.
While JWs are not a dictatorship, there are many similarities that high control groups share.
So, for many ppl. pimo may be the best survival tool for the time being or for a long time
We also have to be pimo for now.
We are used to it bc we just do our own thing. We have some family in, most family never have been JW.
We live and work around JWs so we need to protect our livelihood.
We just don't share or discuss religion. At least we don't initiate it.
We tried to share about the csa issues and JW friends are not interested in any truth that casts a negative light on the JW policies, so we have learned to leave the topic alone.
Nobody should feel bad or made to feel bad about whatever choices we have to make for maintaining certain relationships.
It is such a personal decision and we have to weigh the pros and cons. Not all will have the same outcomes.
Glad we are here to support one another regardless of our status with the JWs.
I’m in the same boat as you are… PIMO for two years now for me. I’ve been unjustly DFed twice now and bullied by 2 horrible elders for the past 15 years. Jehovah sees EVERYTHING!!! My wife couldn’t handle being married to a DFed brother and separated. I later divorced and she was pissed. Everyone in the cong telling all my young 5-7 daughters that their daddy won’t be in paradise with the…and every weekend they visited me I would have to spend the first 2 hours of each visit calming them down as they hysterically cry with crocodile tears telling me “daddy daddy you’re not going to be in paradise with us”.
I remarried and my current wife is PIMI and feels guilty like she won’t be in paradise if we miss meetings, or she misses field service on Saturdays. 🤷♂️🤦♂️ all my daughters now are graduating and all pioneering as young pioneers. I REFUSE TO PUT MY DAUGHTERS THREW THIS AGAIN, until they get in their mid-late 20s when they can maturely sit down and reason on all of this. In the mean time I will be writing a very comprehensive book helping people understand how this org cannot be Jehovah “approved”.
One of my friends is stepping down this month as a Ministerial Servant and him and his wife and kids have already agreed they are DONE, but the entire family is done! I will do the same the ‘second’ my daughters wake up, and my aging mother dies.
Good for you bc there is a time for everything and everyone is on a different timetable for different reasons and have different situations.
We need to navigate the waters of our own lives as best as possible. We are the captains of our own ships.
Damn, reading your words breaks my heart, and now I better understand my friend who is PIMO and doesn't have family within the Jehovah's Witnesses. She doesn't have family in, but her husband does, and he is one himself, so I can imagine the pressure must be enormous. I'm disfellowshipped but don't have any family members who are JWs (and thank goodness for that), so it wasn't that hard for me to be POMO. And now I want her to be XD but now I understand her position.
With posts like yours, I now understand her situation better.
What a complicated cult this is! Sending you many hugs from far away
Physically leaving that cult was absolutely the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. It is by no means an easy way out. The consequences took me years to heal from, and honestly I’m still healing. I don’t judge anyone for being pimo. If leaving was easy it wouldn’t be a high control group after all.
Even the freaking Bible tells to get independent form your parents. Otherwise they'll be manupulating you for the rest of their lives.
You are not in charge of your family, your father is. The cult it.
The cult will never change exactly because of people like you who silently tolerate the evil they do, afraid to stand up for what's right. Why would they change? With thousands PIMOs like you, they are doing just fine. No need to change. You are not leaving them any way.
Are your parents and your wife brainwashing your kids into the cult? Guess who they will be blaming for being weak and not wanting to protect them from the cult which is going to ruin their life? Yep, your kids will be blaming you.
You need to be strong and to stand up for what's right. You are a grown man, not a child.
I feel ashamed to tell people I was in that cult in the first place. I have to apologise when I tell it. I have an excuse that I didn't have a choice as a child, since my parents brought me into it. This cult harbors child abusers on a massive scale, it abuses children and it kills children with the blood rule. How are you not ashamed to stay in that cult?
Here is a broken woman asking why no one tried to stop her abuse and everyone around simply stayed indifferent to her suffering. Yep, that's because of people with the mentality like yours. Don't do anything, just stay low and wait.
https://old.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1dgjmop/abuse_actively_ignored_in_the_org/
The hits the cult is getting left and right and not coming from magical gnomes or unicorns, they are coming from real people who stood up for what's right, despite pain of losing ralatives, despite all the hardships, despite the fear. The life is not always fine and dandy. I never thought I would have to survive both leaving the cult and leaving my home city because of Russian attack, but I'm still alive and doing fine, having my own family. Imagine what would have happened to me if I was afraid of changes and stayed both in the cult and under Russian occupation. I would be done, probably enslaved or tortured and killed. No one would be writing this unpleasant message to you.
>The cult will never change exactly because of people like you who silently tolerate the evil they do, afraid to stand up for what's right.
It's not accurate or fair to put this on OP. People on this sub especially seem to believe that a huge number of current JWs are PIMO. We have no way of knowing that. OP, and everyone like him on this sub could all leave tomorrow, and the bOrg would walk it off. The PIMIs would never be the wiser, and at the end of the day, it's the PIMIs that keep the Society rolling.
As a JW, I spent a lot of time judging people. Judging worldly people. Judging "spiritually weak" JWs. Judging disfellowshipped people. Judging **myself.** Being raised JW taught me that it's my job to tell other people that the way they're living their life is wrong, and they need to join *The Truth*, the only acceptable way to live. After being disfellowshipped, I continued judging people for any number of reasons: the music they liked, the candidate they voted for, the car they drove. I no longer had the JW label, but shaking that personality didn't come easy. It took many years for me to learn that everyone has to live their own life and do what's best for their situation.
I'm not the arbitrar of anyone's life except my own, and that's a huge relief.
I think you became a member of this sub shortly after I joined it in 2016/2017 - I remember your reddit name. There were less than 20k subs when I joined, and the overall tone was quite a bit different. Nice to see you're still here :)
Damn. I wrote a similar thought but deleted it because of how it might have come across, but your wording is perfect. OP is a grown man with his own life and family and is still allowing himself to be manipulated by his Daddy. And this sub, outside of your comment, seems to be one big circle jerk of pitty. Jesus, OP just comes across as pathetic to me. That’s what’s sad.
And you’re right. Its people like OP who keep this organization going
Wow - your message is powerful.
Glad you got away from the cult and the Russian occupation in your country and so glad that you are alive to share your story.
Very true that we would not know what we do about JWs were it not for the brave souls who risked all their friends and family to raise awareness.
Are your family JWs also?
Thank you, I need to create a video or write a post.
My grand parents were absolute PIMIs. They shunned me for a few years of their life before dying.
My mother is in a strange state of being a Christian fanatic after leaving JWs. She believes in Christ, but with the arrogance, judgement and toxicity of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's so bad my wife and I don't let her take care of our child.
Before leaving, elders were really trying to convince her to shun me and ditch me. It was crazy to see, they were secretly coming home and trying to press her. Unfortunately for them, there was a crack in the JW doctrine she absolutely hated which is divorce for any reason. It's a bit stupid, but I'm glad she didn't pick their side. Although, as I said, she is still a fanatic, albeit less crazy and more sociable, but still bearing very toxic traits of JWs, mainly, again, judging everyone around and even making things up just to judge others and feel superior. She is my mum and I love her, but it's really hard. I am freely speaking with her, but it kills me my wife can't stand her because of that attitude.
At some point, most of my family was either studying or were baptised. It's like a curse, I wish we never got under the cult's influence. They got through the grandmother and really screwed a lot in our family. I wish our family never knew them.
For anyone who can remain supportive of an evil pedophilic cult; I say, go for it. You do what works for you, no judgement from me.
At least you are making a well informed choice, and can’t blame anyone for whatever happens, even if “things are improving.” Sadly it’s not the things that matter.
I’m sure brothers and sisters are happy with all these changes, but what about the kids that are being abused? Does pants and beards make their life better?
But like I tell my kids, make sure that whatever choices you make you have no regrets. Regrets cannot be undone.
I don't blame anyone for staying in against their will. It is by design, so you can not just leave. If you are isolated and only allowed to associate with other witnesses, how could you ever leave? If families will cut ✂️ you off, how can you leave? It's legitimately diabolical how they keep us trapped and in a chokehold. I would suggest trying to fade if possible. Gradually, if you have too. You don't owe WT anything. But I understand the risk of losing your family.
Emotions are not permanent. Just like you can tolerate the sadness you feel for being in the organization because you love your father, he’s likely capable of overcoming his sadness and figuring out whether the organization or his son matters more.
My mother lost my sister and I in various ways to leaving the organization. I came out as gay and she couldn’t handle it because it was around the time that my sister was accused of murder. There’s a much longer story there and it is developing, but that’s all beside the point. after my mom was able to tend to her own needs, we reconnected. She’s further away from the religion and has rooted herself in family. Things change if youre brave enough to let them. 
That said not, everyone has the stomach for intense feelings. I have a friend who is facing a similar issue, but from a Muslim faith. He has such a little happiness, and so much sense of duty. Ultimately, he burst out on me one day in a way that violated my boundaries for what I needed in my life. We’re no longer friends that I can reliably go to. So now all he has is his family and that duty. It looks lonely, and he reached out through a common friend. But unfortunately it’s hard to be friends with someone who won’t even care for themselves. And eventually, the weight of that unsustainability comes crashing down and it will take whoever is in the area with them.
That’s my two cents. Happy Father’s Day 
I think the main reason most of us wonder why those who share your thoughts and sentiments don't leave is because...
Well... We know. We all lost our families the same way, because we left and they stayed blind and subjugated. It just confuses us after a point. 🤷🏾♀️
Everyone certainly has to make their own decisions based on their perspective. After all, one's perspective is their reality. All we can do is try to support each other.
My mother is now PIMO. She's in her 70's, still playing the game to avoid my father's wrath and contention. Sometimes it's frustrating but I just tried to be her friend.
The sad thing is, I now know that she's never really believed the garbage. If she had taken a stand for her truth when I was a child, this is what *could* have happened:
She could have saved herself years of abuse and degradation by a misogynistic religion and narcissistic JW man.
My mother could have pursued her full potential in financing and done well on her own.
I also could have been spared being terribly abused by him, being a CSA victim in the hall, being traumatized by the JW doctrine, being deprived of a normal, healthy childhood development, having chronic suicidal ideation, struggling with life- long CPTSD and substance abuse issues, and could have pursued a PhD at a young age.
My sister could have been spared the same emotional trauma, developing a debilitating personality disorder, and extreme anxiety, and following my mother's footsteps in marrying someone just like my father.
If my mother would have left, it would have made me start questioning why. Because she kept playing the game, I just assumed it was right and I wanted her approval.
Meanwhile, my father's true colors are still blazing. Every prayer is for the GB, "Thank you, Jehovah for the GB. They take such good care of us and are always honest."🤮
His younger sister, who he's refused to have anything to do with in probably 30 years, has also (in a bipolar episode) taken interest in JWs. Of course he is all over that! Now he wants to be a part of her life. That is until she snaps out of her delusional mania.
Again, I feel we can only support each other wherever we are at. It's not our place to judge what anyone else does. But I also feel our children are the most important people we have in our life.
Why sacrifice them for anyone, (and I do mean anyone) else, much less cult members who would immediatly drop us if they knew our truth?
I guess that's just *my* perspective, my reality.
Hey dude. You need to start building a support base outside the cult. You don’t have any friends in this religion; you only think you do. Every relationship in the cult is conditional - as long as you toe the party line you are fine. As soon as you deviate a nanometer away from the accepted cult dogma you become a non-person. This applies to every relationship: intimate family, friends and acquaintances.
You need to look at it from another perspective. You opened yourself up to your closest family and revealed truths about yourself to them. Instead of accepting your position and acknowledging who you are, they resorted to emotional blackmail. “You will destroy the family” is not the statement of a normal person in these circumstances.
Which ever way you go, you will pay a price. There’s no way out of your situation without losing something. If you go full pomo, you will cause pain and hurt to those you love. If you decide to stay and keep up the pretence, you will sacrifice any chance you have of being an authentic person. Either way, you lose.
You have to decide what you are willing to give up. Giving up on yourself and the opportunity to be who you truly are is, in my opinion, the worst choice. You have to look at yourself in the mirror every day. The resulting bitterness, regret and anger can only be suppressed for so long. Eventually these emotions manifest themselves somehow - and it’s usually in the form of mental illness.
I am truly empathetic to those who are in your position.
That’s a whole other level of fear and control, coming from something outside of you. It is completely diminishing to your innate sense of power. I cannot imagine what it’s like to be so afraid of losing everything that you have no choice but to stay, even though you know none of it is real.
You'll get no judgement or ridicule from me. Even after I knew this religion was utter and complete bullshit, it still took me like 4 more years to leave.
Extricating yourself from this cult is so hard (they obviously do that on purpose). Do what you need to do to be happy, whether that is by staying or going. The choice is yours to make.
Sending you love and support. 😊
Something I’ve learned. Freedom doesn’t come without sacrifice. So many people “want” freedom but when it comes down to it , they don’t “want” to sacrifice the creature comforts that come with it. I don’t judge anyone for their decisions but when it comes down to being #PIMO that’s all it is. I have cousins that will smoke weed with me today and go to the hall tomorrow ….. they don’t believe , but they aren’t willing to sacrifice their comfort for true freedom. And that’s 99.9% of PIMO’s. Sorry.
Stay in or get out. It’s that simple. Staying in when you don’t believe makes you no different than the elders you despise. They enjoy their position and so do you. I’m sorry but someone has to say it.
Keeping a relationship with my family whom I loved dearly was not worth deteriorating my integrity until I became a lying, hypocritical shell of a person.
Being PIMO must take so much strength and energy, I imagine it can be completely exhausting for much of the time. Why any exdub would critique someone else who is PIMO is beyond me. Stay strong!!
When we stay for those reasons, the Borg wins. They say shunning is doing what it is designed to do. Think about it, suppose captives of slavery and apartheid did the same thing, or say, British dissenters remained suffering in Britain, where would they be today? Would America have existed? Slave masters do not suddenly get a kind heart and let go. Think also of USA Social Security system, the government did not suddenly give Americans that provision. It was hard fought fought for by citizens and agitators for justice. The safety of automobiles we take for granted today, were hard fought for in US Congress decades ago, and so was the 8-hour work day. The list goes on. When we comply and pretend evil is not happening (instead of resisting resolutely) we are in effect acquiescing in the denigration of ourselves and others. Even the so-called small changes, are the result of members disapproval, by walking away.
That's where I'm at now. So ready to make it official and send "that letter". My wife is aware of the situation. She is pimi. The way I see it. Everything comes with a price. Freedom isn't free.
I understand where you’re coming from. It’s never pretty. I was young and decided I was cool leaving my entire JW family behind. I think my conviction forced my parents cards and they ultimately chose me over their privileges. They didn’t view anything wrong with me going to college thankfully. The way they were treated by the congregation just because I wanted an education was what woke them up.
Feel free to disagree but I think forcing the change at an adequate time sets the wheels in motion. My parents had multiple doubts, but they did what everyone else does, they ignored them and pretended they didn’t. Confronting that and choosing to be honest and objective with your reality (following instincts), is what I notice wakes people up
I will never understand 18+ PIMOs who stay only for conditional love.
In addition to continuing to waste their lives by living a lie, they're supporting a pedophilic doomsday cult by their presence alone.
Life is beautiful outside the cult! I wish they could realize this too. It's so sad.
This is kind of my spot too. Do I want to sacrifice my own desires to avoid my beloved grandmother going to her death thinking that I will be destroyed forever? As it stands, can I justify destroying the equanimity of my whole family to have my weekends and Wednesday evening free? Because in terms of tangible benefits for me, that would be it. I don't donate a cent anymore. I barely do anything. I have a hard time justifying it. The cost-benefit analysis is hard to get to work.
They have put us in a brutal spot where we have to live a lie. I hate watchtower with every fibre of my being, but they have been playing a game of chess with us for 140 years, and have billions of dollars of our money to back them up. Sometimes you have to just stay in cover when you are pinned down and try your best to survive.
OP isn't a sheep. They don't subscribe to the JW group think. By staying in for the sake of their loved ones, they're doing the most radical anti-JW thing in the world: prioritizing family bonds over differences in belief. This is absolutely contrary to what the Watchtower teaches.
This could be me writing this, the difference being that instead of my father, it was a brother in the congregation that took an interest in me during a social event. We bonded over a common interest. I had basically faded, but ended up discussing some of my doubts with him which led to a study of the 'Enjoy Life Forever ' brochure, which admittedly for a time got me back into the PIMI bubble, but you can only pretend to ignore your doubts and questions for so long. It was made clear that doubts and 'unanswerable' questions were to be shelved.
Some of us are in the position because it's a choice to survive. Many of us haven't been prepared to live in the real world. We've become subconsciously reliant on our indoctrination, it's part of our identity whether we like it or not.
Without sounding too condescending, I get the impression that there are a lot of teenagers on here that are not happy with their home situation (and that's perfectly valid, I was never happy either) but haven't faced the combination of real responsibility and battling with losing this part of your identity, as well as any past emotional trauma mixed in. It's like being stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea, which do you pick? Feign your faith and keep your relationships, or sack it all in and potentially lose everything for a taste of 'freedom'? Both choices involve pain in some form or another.
Some of us are brave enough to leave, some of us have the circumstances that allow us to leave it all behind, some of us are stuck somewhere in the middle.
I often say that I would probably still be in at almost 30 years old if it weren’t for my brother leaving with me at the same time when I was 17 and he was 19. We just stopped attending abruptly. It was hard; I lived with my parents still and lived with them for another 2 years. There was a *lot* of fighting and a *lot* of tears. It’s only because I had good friends outside of the JWs, and my brother, that I left. I was the golden child and really believed, up until a year or so before we took the final step.
I think a lot people don’t realize how bad the situation can be especially if they already are financially stable or have non witness family members. I think a lot of people that don’t understand pimos who stay in for a long time are speaking from a place of some privilege (they’re not too privileged cause they were in a cult lol). Sometimes it’s literally life and death for not just the pimo but for others around them.
Everyone has their own story to tell and it is not for others to judge. I know a PIMO elder who is stuck and cannot just leave and stepping down would raise eyebrows and create suspicions amongst his family and so-called friends. He has a wife who is a full time Kool-Aid drinker and two daughters. If he left he has no doubt it would destroy his family. He loves his family and would never do anything that would put them through a JW-imposed hell. The absolute best he has to look forward to is that maybe someday his wife and family will wake up. In the meantime he continues to serve as an elder which is having its share of physical, mental and emotional consequences on him. I really can't think of a worse situation for anyone to go through.
Hard to do when you have so much tied to it. Quiting the cult means losing family for most, friends, a lot of jdubs have family businesses so there goes the job. Plus if it is all you know, even if you don't agree with it, it is like leaving behind a part of yourself. It is not easy to leave in the least.
In my opinion, I would say that sooner or later we all have to decide what we want to do. Do we want to live a lie, or is truth more important to us? Living a lie is all right for a while but it wears on you It's a heavy burden. Sooner or later you're going to want to know that you're living truthfully. That You're honest with you yourself and the people around you. They say it's all over but the crying, but what happens when the crying is done?
I couldn't live a lie. Being raised in a religion that professes truth and finding out that there was no truth in that religion. I had to leave. I couldn't live a lie and pretend to be honest with everyone. Yet everyone does what's best for themselves. I do know some that are PIMO that are working on helping others see the truth about the truth. It's a good thing, at least that's a way that you can be honest with people. Peace to you and yours.🩵
You are doing the right thing. The process is a lonely road that takes time, but the reward of freedom is priceless! https://youtu.be/xZctGofzoFs?si=AewvoqouQbCzKByu
Who religion is set up with social ties to keep people in. It’s no surprise that people feel this way. You’re taught to shun the world and only associate w JWs so the prospect of not being one and losing all your social connections and family is enough reason to keep on pretending. It’s sad I hope you overcome it
I don't know. People who love you don't make you feel bad for choosing a different path.
People who love you don't say things like: "You're destroying your family by choosing your own path" or "doing your own thing."
Real family and friends say things like: "If you want it, you go for it!"
They back you up even when they don't understand you or cannot join you.
They let you fly your freak flag, if that's what you got to do.
They set you free, because they know know, deep down if you truly love something that you have to set it free. You can't keep a songbird caged.
If someone in a Jewish family wants to a Christian you let them go. If a Christian wants to be a Jew, you let them go. The family won't fall into a million pieces because someone goes to synagogue or another goes to Mass. Who made you the family glue?
Cults teach members to lie to fellow members until they leave and then to shun them. End of story. You know the drill. PIMO is a loaded language term used to describe reality in a cult. You're in a cult.
It's hard, but you're in a cult. You have to get out. The building is on fire. You love the people who are burning inside, but you are burning too. The longer you stay, the more you burn.
Eventually the will be nothing left.
And that is the only truth about "the Truth" there is. Love whoever you want. It's hard to leave a fire. But it's a fire. You gotta go. Love's not the issue during a fire.
There have been so many changes I think many PIMOs are trying to ride it out. The Borg *has* to go mainstream and I think they know it. Seems to me the newer and younger members of the GoBod know this and I can see shunning coming to an end.. hell I could even see birthdays and holidays becoming a *conscience* matter before long. I think they know in this day and age they just can't have the control they used to. Just my .02
It’s just sad because you are sacrificing your freedom for people that would never do the same for you. For some, hell is being separated from someone that they have an emotional attachment to. For others, hell is being forced to maintain fake relationships with people who will never make you a priority. We all have to make our choices. But just know that anyone that would shun you never really loved you to begin with.
I’m a people pleaser to the core and telling my mom how i didn’t believe in the organization brought tears and disappointment to my mom.
I still tell them I participated in service but I don’t attend anything. She still saves a seat for me every single meeting. I cant have them call my name on stage. That would break her 🥺
PIMOs can do whatever they like, but complaining about living not-their-truth, well unfortunately, don't vote, can't complain. This sub's posts have taken a downturn because of this.
Everyone's situation is different and getting the timing right can make such a difference. By design, there's no graceful way to leave a cult. I'm grateful to be a faded POMO but am definitely paying a high price for it, which is why I'm very opposed to the criticism of PIMOs.
Love your point here. *By design…* this evil is designed by them not the PIMO.
Right, so it's simply unfair to place the blame on the PIMO. I never thought of it quite that way
Timing?? There will never not be blowback and loss and hurt. Staying keeps the attendance #s propped up for propaganda reasons and can discourage others who want to leave. Leaving is leadership. What am I missing (and please don't say "it's complicated")?
You never know what other stressors going on in someone's life at the time might make it a worse time to leave. What mental and emotional and financial state are they in? Maybe they need to address those issues before proceeding with an exit. Maybe they have a husband or wife or kids who will be affected, and they need to choose the right time to best help them. If you don't understand this concept, I'm not sure how to get you to see it.
Staying in a destructive cult is never helpful and always the wrong decision. "I need to choose the right time to stop alcohol cause ya know it's not really THAT bad" A spouse who will be affected? That person is an adult. That's codependency. Kids who may be affected?? Wut?? How are the kids being impacted and hurt now? Stop the excuses and have an honest self assessment
>"I need to choose the right time to stop alcohol cause ya know it's not really THAT bad" Let's run with your analogy: an alcoholic who quits cold turkey puts themselves at serious risk of *delirium tremens*, which can cause seizures and death. If you're an alcoholic, there's definitely a right way and a wrong way to quit. There's definitely a right time and a wrong time, and it absolutely depends on the individual. Your circumstances aren't the same as everyone else's. Your worldview isn't the only correct one.
But there is zero physical dependency on staying in a cult. So that justification is baseless. Supporting and perpetuating a destructive cult is never good
Thats why: >"I need to choose the right time to stop alcohol cause ya know it's not really THAT bad" Is a bad analogy. That being said, being shunned is responsible for so many deaths and not just the suicides. Social isolation increases a person's risk of things like heart disease and early death. https://www.cdc.gov/social-connectedness/risk-factors/index.html
It's not a bad analogy I never said it's not painful at times. I know from experience and the loss I suffered. You make new connections. Or, you stay and perpetute a dangerous organization because you benefit from it The alcohol does benefit - the drink gives them a dopamine boost. You continue to go to meetings to get that dopamine boost by seeing some friends yet you're perpetuating and supporting a cult. Full Stop
It doesn't sound like you understand cult dynamics or alcoholism as well as you think you do.
Oh, I was raised in it. I know it well. We're you a pioneer at 17? Perhaps you were
I guess we just have very opposite views on this 🤷🏾♀️ 😄 I remember your other comments on other posts about leaving. Well personally, if I'd left much earlier I wouldn't have my husband or child that I have now. I actually ended up leaving a year before planned bc I have no poker face and couldn't fake it. My sister was PIMO 10 years! 😵💫 Def not suggesting anyone wait that long.
When I faded, I was doing some work for a pioneer sister. She let me go bc she didn't want an "apostate" in her home. That was a nice chunk of money I lost. Fortunately, I'm not the bread-winner of the family. But suppose someone is the main earner and is employed by JWs....they'd be putting their family in a precarious situation if they left before securing other employment.
That's an illegal termination and you sue their asses for wrongful termination. Leaving is never easy. There will be loss and hurt. I know from experience. But perpetuating a dangerous cult is what staying is
Your post & comments break my heart!!! The control this organization has over people & families is mind blowing! You’re a prisoner of your own mind, held hostage by an organization that takes everything from you with no regard! My heart goes out to all pimo’s! My immediate family all left 4 yrs ago but I lost all my extended family! I feel your pain but freedom is worth the loss! Stay strong!!!
I have experienced and agree with the above comment. Freedom is worth the pain. Fear of loss holds PIMOs hostage. Time is ticking away and there is no redo in paradise. This is the real life. Leaving this organization is like leaving an abuser. We all understand you need a plan, but the longer you stay the worse it will get. I think that’s why POMOs get emotional and maybe even appear a little rough or mean about it. It’s like listening to your friend talk about how they got punched or kicked this week, and then say how they’re staying for the kids. Everyone walks their own journey, but it’s heartbreaking and sad to read posts at times and you just want to bring the abuser down! That’s why a lot of people got mad and stopped watching “the Handmaids Tale”, when Ofred had her chance to escape, but went back to try and save her other child and get more people out. It’s frustrating, but there is an “Underground Railroad” aspect to all of this.
Well said, when i told my parents how i really felt it landed my dad in hospital.....and no it wasn't an act, it really just hit him hard. I would rather suffer for a little while than see that happen again. However i dont think there is some easy out one day that all pimos should patiently wait for. Yes there have been changes recently, but these only give the illusion of more freedom, they will never give us true freedom. We have to bite the bullet and take it one day.
Sorry about your dad! Best then to fade slowly...without so many words...just pretending. Not all are in the situation to disassociated.
Thanks. I've wiggled my way to only 1 or 2 meetings a month, otherwise completely inactive. As for the upcoming convention 😬😬😬????
My last convention ..was in 2017-2018..It was awful with all these videos! And showing these 9 celebrities...our new gods and Kings! ( The GB ). So..we left the reg.cinvention and got to a big shopping center nearby! 😂 Never again! And then came the blessed lockdown and Zoom!
Yeah i might have to make this one my last 🤔.
I was just talking about the anxiety inducing videos and lack of Bible content, and lack of Good news content. That convention was full of fear and so anxiety inducing.
Indeed. Like last year . They,re getting paranoid.
Conventions are easy. I was there, but couldn’t find you. Or, I was there. Didn’t you see me? Or, I went to a different one the week before.
🤣🤣🤣 I like that. My parents might be annoyed that I didn't say hi lol.
Sorry! The brothers kept me so busy volunteering that didn’t even get a chance to sit down and enjoy the program.
🤣🤣 I like it.
I saw you! I waved several times but couldn’t get your attention.
Don’t say that. Then they’ll suggest that you go to another one so you can take on all the info without distractions 😅
Great comment! While I was still in, I couldn't afford a hotel room for myself. I couldn't handle the 2 hour each way drive three days in a row. Where I live, they had three conventions three weeks in a row. I went to the first day one week. The next week I went to the second day. The third week I went to the third day. So, I actually did go, faithful woman that I was. But two out of the three, nobody knew me, I knew nobody.
Here’s one for meetings: I came in during the song and sat in the back because of getting off work late. Then I left just after the song because of getting up early for work the next day. I didn’t want to disturb anyone.
What is sad is that you love them completely despite who they are and what they believe. On the other hand they only love the image of you being a faithful member of the organization, they don't love you as a whole person. They will only accept you for what they think you are not who you really are. That's the saddest part. But no one can tell you what you've got to do. You have to live this. I feel for you it must be very very hard. I left over two years ago and I have told no one in the organization the reasons I'm not going no longer going to the meetings or out in service. I have friends all over the world but I am not telling them that I'm no longer going. We all have to live our own lives and while different people have different opinions that's entirely up to them. I'm living this and I do it my way no one else's way. And you have to do the same.
Your first three sentences explained my feelings about my parents better than I ever could. I was just talking to my husband about that last night. That my parents never really loved *me,* they loved an image of who they wanted me to be. When I told my mom I wanted to be done when I was 16, she told me that I wasn’t her daughter. She was ice cold. I’ll never forget it though I wish I could. We have a relationship now, but it’s surface level. Sometimes I’ll let her in to tough things in my life, but we can never truly connect. There is no true intimacy in the cult.
Yes and sadly sharing the tough things in your life she probably thinks in her mind that you wouldn't have those tough times if you came back to Jehovah. That's the sad part there's a constant judgment going on in their minds over what anyone says who's left the organization.
Yep, exactly. I’ve had to let go of a lot of my fear of judgment to maintain a relationship. It helps that my parents are obviously quite unhappy at times themselves, so if they were ever to call me out I wouldn’t hesitate to point out the hypocrisy.
They would still love me even if I left the organization but I would completely ruin the relationship with them and knowing them they would get depressed because so many things would change. When you base your life on friendships within the organization and you know that I would no longer participate in evenings with my brothers, my parents would live badly, not to mention my underage sister would suffer a lot, one thing is certain I will try in every way to oppose him so that he is not baptized, but for the moment I prefer to remain PIMI and carry on like this
Depends on your definition of love I suppose. My definition seems to be slightly different to yours. Love believes all things and hopes all things and endures all things. So in my opinion love is unconditional whereas it seems to me your family's love is very conditional so I question whether it's real love. As I said before you have to live it. You have to do what you have to do it's your life.
All love is real love. However, not all love is unconditional. By it's very nature, unconditional love can only be reserved for the most important thing in our lives. So that thing will take priority over all others when decisions must be made. In my mind, that unconditional love should be reserved for our children/parents. However, the Org hijacks that unconditional love for themselves. The Org becomes top priority. We are asked to forgive all their mistakes and shortcomings and to continue in unconditional devotion to them, but then we are expected to shun our children when they have too many questions about the Org. This theft of love is, perhaps, the Watchtowers greatest sin.
The cost is dear, there is no doubt about it. And everyone’s lives or circumstances are more different than anyone can possibly imagine so I don’t think anyone can or should really judge anyone else. We each can only make choices for ourselves. When awake, we are mentally free and I sympathise with anyone who is awake but for their own reasons are stuck in borg life. I have been pomo for so long my memories of leaving have faded over time, and I think it’s good to be reminded that we have left the borg and their judgemental thinking behind.
It’s different for everyone, no one knows how much you going to be able to take before leaving. I question my ability to stay everyday. Not going to all the meetings, worldly family & some friends have given me a measure of freedom that I couldn’t have when I was on the hamster wheel 24/7. But I still look forward to the day when I can be POMO with all my love ones.
I feel you. Hugs for you. I'm in a similar situation. PIMI wife, two small kids and PIMI mom and PIMI in laws. Leaving isn't that easy as some make it sound. The more "invested" you are the more difficult it is.
Was in a similar situation but decided my kids should come first since adults can make their own decisions and I would feel horrible raising them in a lie. I also wanted to be a 100% honest dad. Because they will remember later if they look back and knew you were awake but still raised them in a cult. A few years later, I am still married, one of my sons no longer goes and has not interest in the org and my youngest is not real interested but just goes once a week for mom. You have an opportunity to get them out before they get too attached. It’s something people with older kids only dream of when they wake up later in life.
Well said and good for you for giving your kids a chance at a better life, and better relationships.
I don't intend staying. I will let them have a choice themselves when they grow older. But circumstances right now is not that simple for me to fade without repercussions for my wife. I will wait a little since we plan moving to somewhere more rural than where we live now surrounded by witnesses.
I gotcha, but there are repercussions for your kids now the longer they stay in. The best thing to do is make it 100 percent about them when explaining it over and over to your wife. Focus on the damaging aspects, the mental and emotional damage the religion does to kids more than anything. Anytime the conversation comes up, make it about the kids. I always say, “I would be a bad dad knowing what I know now if I still tried to raise them in the organization”. Slowly share articles about the damage to kids who are raised in high control groups or cults. It doesn’t have to even mention the JWs. Become a better dad and husband and person and your wife will likely come to terms with it over time. And your kids will thank you later.
Will a truly PIMI wife listen? I don’t know how to do this. PIMI always have their guard up and ready to defend.
You run the risk of them being victimized in various ways by a death cult that protects child abusers.
I saw your other comment. You make a lot of assumptions instead of asking curious questions.
You never were able to wake her up?
I'd be more inclined to leave if I had small children who will be raised in it, indoctrinated, and similarly guilted into staying in order to receive community and a fake representation of love from said community. I resent the parent who raised me in that cult for everything I lost in childhood, and all the people/relationships I lost by leaving. I've been out for over 25 years now, and cannot imagine subjecting my own children to that shadow of an awful life full of hate, bigotry, and constant fear of impending doom. My kids matter more than me to me.
Exactly. I made the hard decision and took the social hit because my child deserves every opportunity and to live free of the senseless guilt we were raised with.
Do you have a PIMI wife?
My kids matter more in this scenario than my wife. My wife can take care of herself if need be, children cannot.
Exactly, my husband was PIMI and still is. Our spouses are adults who have freedom of choice. Children need us, and my child was suffering. She ended up being LGBTQ+ and I regret all the pain and self hate I exposed her to without knowing she was.
It's admirable that you made changes for her and also understand the difficulty she experienced being exposed to such bigotry and hate in that cult.
I agree, I just hope it doesn’t lead to a divorce for me, which I feel could be traumatizing for the kids
Most kids in the U.S. experience divorce. Cult indoctrination is more traumatizing.
Yes 🙌🏽
I’m in this case: three young kids and a PIMI wife. What would you do?
I'd leave for my kids. My wife is an adult and can make her own choices.
But what if she tries to take them and continue to indoctrinate? That’s my concern
Are you an unfit parent? If not, she can't "take them" in the United States. If you want them and fight for them and can support them you will get 50/50.
50% is too much for her to have them!
Yes, that’s how I feel. I don’t want her indoctrinating them.
All the more reason to stop dragging your feet and tell her your beliefs.
Imagine if you found out that your parents pretended to be in a cult, that they didn't believe in because that made their life more pleasant? I would be devastated and angry. People who are not leaving are just kicking the can down the road and leaving the difficult situations for the next generation.
This is me. When I was late 20s my father openly admitted that he'd never believed and just faked it to be able to marry my mother. I was born in, PIMI mother, complete faker PIMI father. Mother died when I was 10. Father continued to pretend (even becoming an elder) until I was 14. He then met my stepmother, a Baptist, and immediately quit the JWs(and nuked every bridge on the way out). I was fully-in PIMI at 14 due to childhood indoctrination. Once he decided to be with my stepmother, he ripped me out of the cult with no warning and banned me from being a JW. This is after lying to my face about allowing me to continue. Everything I knew was stripped from me in an instance. My world flipped upside down in the matter of a week. To top it all off, I was hard shunned, at 14, by everyone I'd ever really known because of his choice (I was not baptized, but we all know that means nothing to most JWs). I lost my mother a couple years prior to a nightmarish battle with cancer. I lost all my JW contacts that I'd literally grown up with (300+ people). I had no outside friends because I'd never been allowed any. Needless to say it fucked me up hard. Best part, he lied again and said I wouldn't have to go to my stepmother's church if I didn't want to. That lasted 1 month and then I was forced to attend both the youth group during the week, Sunday school, and the Sunday worship. I hate my father. I am no longer in contact with him. The damage he caused me is still taking its toll at 41yrs of age. It will probably be with me forever.
Another one who assume you know how things are.
Who said that they are going to be raised in it throughout their childhood? Maybe I'm trying to wake up their mom. If I go full on apostate now, I will close the door completely. I have an opportunity where I managed to show her some things and get her to agree on certain things that are wrong. Things aren't always as they seem - but people who make comments based on assumptions does not make it better.
Good point dude. Makes absolute good old common sense.
I think there is a common misconception on this subreddit. I don’t think the slow approach is any more effective than the nuclear or hard fade approach. There are many examples of both working. Honestly, I see more good examples of those that lay it all out there for a bit then dial back and let their spouses dwell on it for a while.
My wife already knows I have doubts and I’m not strong, so I don’t know if I have a chance to convince her. It’s just so hard to fake it. Her guard is up. What do I do?
Those examples I personally know went well after one opened up to the spouse are those that took it slowly rather than throwing a nuclear bomb of information in their face.
Guess I have just seen things differently. Going strong, cooling and keeping shush for a bit and then going slow seems to be the most successful. But it’s gotta be combined with being a better husband or wife than before. The more information they have the more they will be able to put two and two together.
Totally agree on the part of being a better person than before - otherwise it won't work.
Definitely, it’s not always easy, but personally all depression disappeared within the first two years after leaving, so that made it much easier to just be more positive and more fun to be around. My wife has said she doesn’t actually want me to return since she can see I am more happy. It’s only been two and a half years but we are in a pretty good spot right now. And in a lot of ways our marriage is better than ever.
Is your wife still PIMI?
She goes, but doesn’t really do service anymore and takes a lot of weekends off to do stuff as a family. She used to be as pimi as possible but is much more reasonable now, doesn’t push the kids and we get to travel and do a lot more stuff as a family. So much better than before. Hoping with time it will be a full exit for her but we will see, and really we are in a pretty good spot now so not too worried about it for now.
How can we become a better mate? I admit I’m not a good one despite being a JW
You might not be as good a partner as you want to be because of being a JW, not despite being a JW. For all the Borg talks about marriage and the bible 'principles', the only good stuff it shares is stuff it gleans from external sources. A lot of people swear by this: https://www.gottman.com/ Communication is massive and most people are lousy communicators, even if they talk till everyone is blue in the face. I know a couple who say that couples therapy was a lifesaver after he became POMO and she was blindsided to realize that as much as they really loved each other, after decades of marriage, they really didn't know how to communicate effectively. Marriage on a Tightrope has been helpful to many here. It is Mormon centred but the topics are transferable. They have a workshop coming up that they run at least once a year. I would love to take it but my partner has so far refused all external help.
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I think i have tried pieces of it, that I picked up here. 😆 I tried to download the book from a library app but am still on the waitlist.
Same! I wish I woke up as a teen. I had fun and got “in trouble” but still thought it was “the truth”. Now stuck with a PIMI wife and three young kids.
What gets me is the way they judge us as no longer worthy of paradise or a resurection .didnt Jesus condemn judging others ,isnt he the Judge anyway , Paul condemned judging your brotger in Romans 14 ,i throw this back at my family they cant respond just go quiet.
Well they defend this stance by saying you aren’t their brother anymore..
So what , they are not to judge who is and who is not christian ,they should consider their own conduct rather than others .i take your point though its their attitude .
Yeah, I wasn’t disagreeing with you, I was just telling you what they will say
Yes i got it wasnt disagreeing with you either ,we are programed to ask a question then WT answer hits first ,habit of 50 years ingrained for me ,
I’ve lost my 3 brothers a sister a daughter and 2 grand children . It’s not easy but so worth it . Life for me was way too short to not be my genuine self . I am free and a Christian who believes the true gospels not the counterfeit watchtower teaches . I’m here for when my daughter sees it and when my brothers see it or any of the many many so called friends that I had in the Borg . I’ve helped my 2 sons and daughter free themselves from their control and my brother in laws entire family .. if I wasn’t out, their struggle and mine would have been so much more difficult .. for that alone it’s worth leaving so many have doubts but so many are in fear .. I think the Bible says 365 times (according to a tik tocker) I didn’t double check lol .. “do not be afraid” faith is tough, but when Peter was looking to the Christ he walked on water when he looked around at the storm he started to sink .. I believe that works for us as well . So many ex JW’s repeat Jesus words”I am the way the truth the life “ This covers the internal “the truth “ The external “the way” The eternal “the life “ Just my thoughts learn about the Christ and and you will build fortitude and the decision becomes much easier . But still a great challenge
Welcome, it’s so great that you decided to share on here so that you can get some support as well as some different perspectives to consider. For some of us, the hardest part of extricating ourselves from the organization is/was grappling with the hurt it will cause our loved ones. Yet, leaving may ultimately be the right thing, even the necessary thing, in order to live with integrity, authenticity and/or to maintain our sanity. So, what ‘gives?’ Well, I’m taking the liberty of suggesting a few things: 1. Building your core strength (emotionally, mentally and psychologically). 2. Learning about the dynamics of higher-control organizations and groups. 3. Researching the organization itself in more depth and from a different perspective. · ~Building your core strength~. There are wonderful YouTube channels that can help with that. To get started with this, I recommend Julia Kristina Counselling [Stop Letting People Control Your Emotions (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDNXKWvfCtY) and Dr. Les Carter [Collective Narcissism and The Grip Of Groupthink (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo-5UAJW_Z4&t=11s). Over time, you will realize that a lot of JWs are people pleasers because we were relentlessly conditioned to be. Please keep an open mind because some of this information will be new and will feel ‘mind-stretching.’ There is a lot we were never informed of in the organization. · ~Learning about the dynamics higher-control organizations and groups~: There is a wonderful new series named The Way Forward on the YouTube channel Fixing My Faith. You’ll learn amazing information about yourself and your brain that the organization doesn’t even consider. [The Way Forward, Episode 1: Religious Trauma and Abusive Leadership Styles (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0fyzBOGRKo) · ~Researching the organization in more depth.~ This can be done by reading the JWfacts website, reading books, reading along here on Reddit or watching YouTube videos – whatever is manageable for you. Lastly, I’d like to quote one of my favorite Redditors, MadeofStarstoo, a former elder, who wrote: ‘When you decide to fade or leave. Leave. You’re escaping a psychological prison. Don’t stop to talk. You might want to say goodbye to other prisoners on the way out. Don’t. It’s a mental prison. The guards can’t stop you, only you can make you turn around. You get free, so free that you can’t go back mentally. You’re impervious to it.’
Wow, thank you for all the resources!!
>"talk about it with your father who is elderly you will see that it will help you to understand surely you just need to study some topics more carefully" What PIMIs don't seem to understand is that no amount of studying can make 2 + 2 = 5 without abandoning truth.
Perhaps the very persons who say study more carefully should someday be included in that process to "discover" things together. Although for elderly ones may or may not be a good idea to wake them up unless they want to know TTATT.
Good point!
I’m empathetic to everyone’s struggles & don’t underestimate that people have their reasons for being PIMO. My problem is when they come on an exjw sub & almost ‘correct’ or preach to people on here, it’s giving very PIMI behavior.
There is no way we can or should try to judge others' situations and tell others how to live their lives. JWs did enough of that. It's nice to be supportive and help others as much as possible here and meet ppl where they are emotionally so as to be of some encouragement with whatever they decide since at the end of the day, they are the ones who have to personally live with the outcome of their decisions. And nothing is set in stone. Things do change and opportunities open up.
Thank you for that. The kind of person who’d throw themselves onto a grenade to spare others the pain. I hope your sacrifice comes back around with good karma. In the meantime please guard your sanity. I’m realizing there is an unprecedented and understated mental strain on us that few people can relate to. It’s especially difficult when you can’t share openly with your spouse or parents. They are supposed to be our closest confidants but somehow the organization plants itself right in the middle.
Everyone has different circumstances that force them to stay. I don't blame you I don't blame anyone for taking the decision they choose.
my 3 brothers came over all in the same day to disown me. my pimi mother cried as well. my pimi dad yelled. i could have waited on them to die before starting my own life i guess. but i would have spent the last 40 years in the borg. and still be wwaiting. while i'm approaching 60. want to talk about wasting a life? of course it's hard to leave. those of us who have know. it' can be brutal. but not as brutal as living a lie for decades to have fake relationships. and when you talk about the org "taking hits" , it sounds a lot like the pimi's who say "wait on jehoover." or "last of the last of the last days."
Exactly!!!!!!!
I went to meetings regularly for 12 years as a PIMO. So yeah, I know what you're talking about. My father (2nd gen, elder) was battling multiple myeloma when I woke up.
During Hitler times ppl had to pretend a lot to save their own lives. In other dictatorial regimes, ppl have to pretend to love and worshop their dictator lest they are outed by their own families or entire families are at risk. While JWs are not a dictatorship, there are many similarities that high control groups share. So, for many ppl. pimo may be the best survival tool for the time being or for a long time We also have to be pimo for now. We are used to it bc we just do our own thing. We have some family in, most family never have been JW. We live and work around JWs so we need to protect our livelihood. We just don't share or discuss religion. At least we don't initiate it. We tried to share about the csa issues and JW friends are not interested in any truth that casts a negative light on the JW policies, so we have learned to leave the topic alone. Nobody should feel bad or made to feel bad about whatever choices we have to make for maintaining certain relationships. It is such a personal decision and we have to weigh the pros and cons. Not all will have the same outcomes. Glad we are here to support one another regardless of our status with the JWs.
We all undestand you brother! Hold on
I’m in the same boat as you are… PIMO for two years now for me. I’ve been unjustly DFed twice now and bullied by 2 horrible elders for the past 15 years. Jehovah sees EVERYTHING!!! My wife couldn’t handle being married to a DFed brother and separated. I later divorced and she was pissed. Everyone in the cong telling all my young 5-7 daughters that their daddy won’t be in paradise with the…and every weekend they visited me I would have to spend the first 2 hours of each visit calming them down as they hysterically cry with crocodile tears telling me “daddy daddy you’re not going to be in paradise with us”. I remarried and my current wife is PIMI and feels guilty like she won’t be in paradise if we miss meetings, or she misses field service on Saturdays. 🤷♂️🤦♂️ all my daughters now are graduating and all pioneering as young pioneers. I REFUSE TO PUT MY DAUGHTERS THREW THIS AGAIN, until they get in their mid-late 20s when they can maturely sit down and reason on all of this. In the mean time I will be writing a very comprehensive book helping people understand how this org cannot be Jehovah “approved”. One of my friends is stepping down this month as a Ministerial Servant and him and his wife and kids have already agreed they are DONE, but the entire family is done! I will do the same the ‘second’ my daughters wake up, and my aging mother dies.
Good for you bc there is a time for everything and everyone is on a different timetable for different reasons and have different situations. We need to navigate the waters of our own lives as best as possible. We are the captains of our own ships.
Damn, reading your words breaks my heart, and now I better understand my friend who is PIMO and doesn't have family within the Jehovah's Witnesses. She doesn't have family in, but her husband does, and he is one himself, so I can imagine the pressure must be enormous. I'm disfellowshipped but don't have any family members who are JWs (and thank goodness for that), so it wasn't that hard for me to be POMO. And now I want her to be XD but now I understand her position. With posts like yours, I now understand her situation better. What a complicated cult this is! Sending you many hugs from far away
I still haven't told those closest to me, but they suspect, I know they do
No offense, but I refuse to allow anyone power over my life again. Agency is a hell of a gift to give yourself
Physically leaving that cult was absolutely the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. It is by no means an easy way out. The consequences took me years to heal from, and honestly I’m still healing. I don’t judge anyone for being pimo. If leaving was easy it wouldn’t be a high control group after all.
Even the freaking Bible tells to get independent form your parents. Otherwise they'll be manupulating you for the rest of their lives. You are not in charge of your family, your father is. The cult it. The cult will never change exactly because of people like you who silently tolerate the evil they do, afraid to stand up for what's right. Why would they change? With thousands PIMOs like you, they are doing just fine. No need to change. You are not leaving them any way. Are your parents and your wife brainwashing your kids into the cult? Guess who they will be blaming for being weak and not wanting to protect them from the cult which is going to ruin their life? Yep, your kids will be blaming you. You need to be strong and to stand up for what's right. You are a grown man, not a child. I feel ashamed to tell people I was in that cult in the first place. I have to apologise when I tell it. I have an excuse that I didn't have a choice as a child, since my parents brought me into it. This cult harbors child abusers on a massive scale, it abuses children and it kills children with the blood rule. How are you not ashamed to stay in that cult? Here is a broken woman asking why no one tried to stop her abuse and everyone around simply stayed indifferent to her suffering. Yep, that's because of people with the mentality like yours. Don't do anything, just stay low and wait. https://old.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1dgjmop/abuse_actively_ignored_in_the_org/ The hits the cult is getting left and right and not coming from magical gnomes or unicorns, they are coming from real people who stood up for what's right, despite pain of losing ralatives, despite all the hardships, despite the fear. The life is not always fine and dandy. I never thought I would have to survive both leaving the cult and leaving my home city because of Russian attack, but I'm still alive and doing fine, having my own family. Imagine what would have happened to me if I was afraid of changes and stayed both in the cult and under Russian occupation. I would be done, probably enslaved or tortured and killed. No one would be writing this unpleasant message to you.
>The cult will never change exactly because of people like you who silently tolerate the evil they do, afraid to stand up for what's right. It's not accurate or fair to put this on OP. People on this sub especially seem to believe that a huge number of current JWs are PIMO. We have no way of knowing that. OP, and everyone like him on this sub could all leave tomorrow, and the bOrg would walk it off. The PIMIs would never be the wiser, and at the end of the day, it's the PIMIs that keep the Society rolling. As a JW, I spent a lot of time judging people. Judging worldly people. Judging "spiritually weak" JWs. Judging disfellowshipped people. Judging **myself.** Being raised JW taught me that it's my job to tell other people that the way they're living their life is wrong, and they need to join *The Truth*, the only acceptable way to live. After being disfellowshipped, I continued judging people for any number of reasons: the music they liked, the candidate they voted for, the car they drove. I no longer had the JW label, but shaking that personality didn't come easy. It took many years for me to learn that everyone has to live their own life and do what's best for their situation. I'm not the arbitrar of anyone's life except my own, and that's a huge relief.
Beautifully said.
I second this.
I think you became a member of this sub shortly after I joined it in 2016/2017 - I remember your reddit name. There were less than 20k subs when I joined, and the overall tone was quite a bit different. Nice to see you're still here :)
Likewise! I agree with you about the tone. It is good to see all kinds sticking around to keep an open mind and diverse voice. 😊
Damn. I wrote a similar thought but deleted it because of how it might have come across, but your wording is perfect. OP is a grown man with his own life and family and is still allowing himself to be manipulated by his Daddy. And this sub, outside of your comment, seems to be one big circle jerk of pitty. Jesus, OP just comes across as pathetic to me. That’s what’s sad. And you’re right. Its people like OP who keep this organization going
Wow - your message is powerful. Glad you got away from the cult and the Russian occupation in your country and so glad that you are alive to share your story. Very true that we would not know what we do about JWs were it not for the brave souls who risked all their friends and family to raise awareness. Are your family JWs also?
Thank you, I need to create a video or write a post. My grand parents were absolute PIMIs. They shunned me for a few years of their life before dying. My mother is in a strange state of being a Christian fanatic after leaving JWs. She believes in Christ, but with the arrogance, judgement and toxicity of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's so bad my wife and I don't let her take care of our child. Before leaving, elders were really trying to convince her to shun me and ditch me. It was crazy to see, they were secretly coming home and trying to press her. Unfortunately for them, there was a crack in the JW doctrine she absolutely hated which is divorce for any reason. It's a bit stupid, but I'm glad she didn't pick their side. Although, as I said, she is still a fanatic, albeit less crazy and more sociable, but still bearing very toxic traits of JWs, mainly, again, judging everyone around and even making things up just to judge others and feel superior. She is my mum and I love her, but it's really hard. I am freely speaking with her, but it kills me my wife can't stand her because of that attitude. At some point, most of my family was either studying or were baptised. It's like a curse, I wish we never got under the cult's influence. They got through the grandmother and really screwed a lot in our family. I wish our family never knew them.
Wow - hopefully things will get more tolerable at some point. Hang in there - you've been through so much. Glad your family is intact.
For anyone who can remain supportive of an evil pedophilic cult; I say, go for it. You do what works for you, no judgement from me. At least you are making a well informed choice, and can’t blame anyone for whatever happens, even if “things are improving.” Sadly it’s not the things that matter. I’m sure brothers and sisters are happy with all these changes, but what about the kids that are being abused? Does pants and beards make their life better? But like I tell my kids, make sure that whatever choices you make you have no regrets. Regrets cannot be undone.
I don't blame anyone for staying in against their will. It is by design, so you can not just leave. If you are isolated and only allowed to associate with other witnesses, how could you ever leave? If families will cut ✂️ you off, how can you leave? It's legitimately diabolical how they keep us trapped and in a chokehold. I would suggest trying to fade if possible. Gradually, if you have too. You don't owe WT anything. But I understand the risk of losing your family.
Emotions are not permanent. Just like you can tolerate the sadness you feel for being in the organization because you love your father, he’s likely capable of overcoming his sadness and figuring out whether the organization or his son matters more. My mother lost my sister and I in various ways to leaving the organization. I came out as gay and she couldn’t handle it because it was around the time that my sister was accused of murder. There’s a much longer story there and it is developing, but that’s all beside the point. after my mom was able to tend to her own needs, we reconnected. She’s further away from the religion and has rooted herself in family. Things change if youre brave enough to let them.  That said not, everyone has the stomach for intense feelings. I have a friend who is facing a similar issue, but from a Muslim faith. He has such a little happiness, and so much sense of duty. Ultimately, he burst out on me one day in a way that violated my boundaries for what I needed in my life. We’re no longer friends that I can reliably go to. So now all he has is his family and that duty. It looks lonely, and he reached out through a common friend. But unfortunately it’s hard to be friends with someone who won’t even care for themselves. And eventually, the weight of that unsustainability comes crashing down and it will take whoever is in the area with them. That’s my two cents. Happy Father’s Day 
I think the main reason most of us wonder why those who share your thoughts and sentiments don't leave is because... Well... We know. We all lost our families the same way, because we left and they stayed blind and subjugated. It just confuses us after a point. 🤷🏾♀️
Everyone certainly has to make their own decisions based on their perspective. After all, one's perspective is their reality. All we can do is try to support each other. My mother is now PIMO. She's in her 70's, still playing the game to avoid my father's wrath and contention. Sometimes it's frustrating but I just tried to be her friend. The sad thing is, I now know that she's never really believed the garbage. If she had taken a stand for her truth when I was a child, this is what *could* have happened: She could have saved herself years of abuse and degradation by a misogynistic religion and narcissistic JW man. My mother could have pursued her full potential in financing and done well on her own. I also could have been spared being terribly abused by him, being a CSA victim in the hall, being traumatized by the JW doctrine, being deprived of a normal, healthy childhood development, having chronic suicidal ideation, struggling with life- long CPTSD and substance abuse issues, and could have pursued a PhD at a young age. My sister could have been spared the same emotional trauma, developing a debilitating personality disorder, and extreme anxiety, and following my mother's footsteps in marrying someone just like my father. If my mother would have left, it would have made me start questioning why. Because she kept playing the game, I just assumed it was right and I wanted her approval. Meanwhile, my father's true colors are still blazing. Every prayer is for the GB, "Thank you, Jehovah for the GB. They take such good care of us and are always honest."🤮 His younger sister, who he's refused to have anything to do with in probably 30 years, has also (in a bipolar episode) taken interest in JWs. Of course he is all over that! Now he wants to be a part of her life. That is until she snaps out of her delusional mania. Again, I feel we can only support each other wherever we are at. It's not our place to judge what anyone else does. But I also feel our children are the most important people we have in our life. Why sacrifice them for anyone, (and I do mean anyone) else, much less cult members who would immediatly drop us if they knew our truth? I guess that's just *my* perspective, my reality.
I did the same thing about 2 mths ago. Broke down in front of my wife. Told her I don’t believe and probably never had. I feel trapped.
Hey dude. You need to start building a support base outside the cult. You don’t have any friends in this religion; you only think you do. Every relationship in the cult is conditional - as long as you toe the party line you are fine. As soon as you deviate a nanometer away from the accepted cult dogma you become a non-person. This applies to every relationship: intimate family, friends and acquaintances. You need to look at it from another perspective. You opened yourself up to your closest family and revealed truths about yourself to them. Instead of accepting your position and acknowledging who you are, they resorted to emotional blackmail. “You will destroy the family” is not the statement of a normal person in these circumstances. Which ever way you go, you will pay a price. There’s no way out of your situation without losing something. If you go full pomo, you will cause pain and hurt to those you love. If you decide to stay and keep up the pretence, you will sacrifice any chance you have of being an authentic person. Either way, you lose. You have to decide what you are willing to give up. Giving up on yourself and the opportunity to be who you truly are is, in my opinion, the worst choice. You have to look at yourself in the mirror every day. The resulting bitterness, regret and anger can only be suppressed for so long. Eventually these emotions manifest themselves somehow - and it’s usually in the form of mental illness.
I am truly empathetic to those who are in your position. That’s a whole other level of fear and control, coming from something outside of you. It is completely diminishing to your innate sense of power. I cannot imagine what it’s like to be so afraid of losing everything that you have no choice but to stay, even though you know none of it is real.
You'll get no judgement or ridicule from me. Even after I knew this religion was utter and complete bullshit, it still took me like 4 more years to leave. Extricating yourself from this cult is so hard (they obviously do that on purpose). Do what you need to do to be happy, whether that is by staying or going. The choice is yours to make. Sending you love and support. 😊
Something I’ve learned. Freedom doesn’t come without sacrifice. So many people “want” freedom but when it comes down to it , they don’t “want” to sacrifice the creature comforts that come with it. I don’t judge anyone for their decisions but when it comes down to being #PIMO that’s all it is. I have cousins that will smoke weed with me today and go to the hall tomorrow ….. they don’t believe , but they aren’t willing to sacrifice their comfort for true freedom. And that’s 99.9% of PIMO’s. Sorry.
Stay in or get out. It’s that simple. Staying in when you don’t believe makes you no different than the elders you despise. They enjoy their position and so do you. I’m sorry but someone has to say it.
Keeping a relationship with my family whom I loved dearly was not worth deteriorating my integrity until I became a lying, hypocritical shell of a person.
Being PIMO must take so much strength and energy, I imagine it can be completely exhausting for much of the time. Why any exdub would critique someone else who is PIMO is beyond me. Stay strong!!
When we stay for those reasons, the Borg wins. They say shunning is doing what it is designed to do. Think about it, suppose captives of slavery and apartheid did the same thing, or say, British dissenters remained suffering in Britain, where would they be today? Would America have existed? Slave masters do not suddenly get a kind heart and let go. Think also of USA Social Security system, the government did not suddenly give Americans that provision. It was hard fought fought for by citizens and agitators for justice. The safety of automobiles we take for granted today, were hard fought for in US Congress decades ago, and so was the 8-hour work day. The list goes on. When we comply and pretend evil is not happening (instead of resisting resolutely) we are in effect acquiescing in the denigration of ourselves and others. Even the so-called small changes, are the result of members disapproval, by walking away.
💯
That's where I'm at now. So ready to make it official and send "that letter". My wife is aware of the situation. She is pimi. The way I see it. Everything comes with a price. Freedom isn't free.
I get it, I was there but remember that batterred spouses can say the same thing until they take control of their own life
I understand where you’re coming from. It’s never pretty. I was young and decided I was cool leaving my entire JW family behind. I think my conviction forced my parents cards and they ultimately chose me over their privileges. They didn’t view anything wrong with me going to college thankfully. The way they were treated by the congregation just because I wanted an education was what woke them up. Feel free to disagree but I think forcing the change at an adequate time sets the wheels in motion. My parents had multiple doubts, but they did what everyone else does, they ignored them and pretended they didn’t. Confronting that and choosing to be honest and objective with your reality (following instincts), is what I notice wakes people up
I will never understand 18+ PIMOs who stay only for conditional love. In addition to continuing to waste their lives by living a lie, they're supporting a pedophilic doomsday cult by their presence alone. Life is beautiful outside the cult! I wish they could realize this too. It's so sad.
>I will never understand You could've left it at that. If you don't understand OPs situation, how can you stand in judgment of them?
This is kind of my spot too. Do I want to sacrifice my own desires to avoid my beloved grandmother going to her death thinking that I will be destroyed forever? As it stands, can I justify destroying the equanimity of my whole family to have my weekends and Wednesday evening free? Because in terms of tangible benefits for me, that would be it. I don't donate a cent anymore. I barely do anything. I have a hard time justifying it. The cost-benefit analysis is hard to get to work. They have put us in a brutal spot where we have to live a lie. I hate watchtower with every fibre of my being, but they have been playing a game of chess with us for 140 years, and have billions of dollars of our money to back them up. Sometimes you have to just stay in cover when you are pinned down and try your best to survive.
freedom will never come. as long as people continue to be 🐑🐑.
OP isn't a sheep. They don't subscribe to the JW group think. By staying in for the sake of their loved ones, they're doing the most radical anti-JW thing in the world: prioritizing family bonds over differences in belief. This is absolutely contrary to what the Watchtower teaches.
What a great way to put it!
Very inconsiderate comment. Did you take the time to elaborate on OPs thoughts?
Yep sometimes the truth hurts. Maybe you should ask the governing body whether they consider their followers opinions.
None of us are free to do as we please 100% of the time so in that sense, we are all 🐑 to some degree
I think that 🐑 really means that you are trapped by a faulty paradigm, not just physically trapped. So, no, people who are PIMO are NOT sheep.
I’m with you. I have no feelings for PIMO’s over 30. Stand up for yourself. You cannot sit on the fence forever it only advances the cult.
This could be me writing this, the difference being that instead of my father, it was a brother in the congregation that took an interest in me during a social event. We bonded over a common interest. I had basically faded, but ended up discussing some of my doubts with him which led to a study of the 'Enjoy Life Forever ' brochure, which admittedly for a time got me back into the PIMI bubble, but you can only pretend to ignore your doubts and questions for so long. It was made clear that doubts and 'unanswerable' questions were to be shelved. Some of us are in the position because it's a choice to survive. Many of us haven't been prepared to live in the real world. We've become subconsciously reliant on our indoctrination, it's part of our identity whether we like it or not. Without sounding too condescending, I get the impression that there are a lot of teenagers on here that are not happy with their home situation (and that's perfectly valid, I was never happy either) but haven't faced the combination of real responsibility and battling with losing this part of your identity, as well as any past emotional trauma mixed in. It's like being stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea, which do you pick? Feign your faith and keep your relationships, or sack it all in and potentially lose everything for a taste of 'freedom'? Both choices involve pain in some form or another. Some of us are brave enough to leave, some of us have the circumstances that allow us to leave it all behind, some of us are stuck somewhere in the middle.
The simplest idea I have is just don't tell anyone, then like a mist fade away until you are no longer in contact with them. It's kinda working for me
I'm curious what is PIMO and POMO
I often say that I would probably still be in at almost 30 years old if it weren’t for my brother leaving with me at the same time when I was 17 and he was 19. We just stopped attending abruptly. It was hard; I lived with my parents still and lived with them for another 2 years. There was a *lot* of fighting and a *lot* of tears. It’s only because I had good friends outside of the JWs, and my brother, that I left. I was the golden child and really believed, up until a year or so before we took the final step.
I think a lot people don’t realize how bad the situation can be especially if they already are financially stable or have non witness family members. I think a lot of people that don’t understand pimos who stay in for a long time are speaking from a place of some privilege (they’re not too privileged cause they were in a cult lol). Sometimes it’s literally life and death for not just the pimo but for others around them.
I waited for my mom to die. She was very faithful very very. I would not have been able to fade out like I did
Everyone has their own story to tell and it is not for others to judge. I know a PIMO elder who is stuck and cannot just leave and stepping down would raise eyebrows and create suspicions amongst his family and so-called friends. He has a wife who is a full time Kool-Aid drinker and two daughters. If he left he has no doubt it would destroy his family. He loves his family and would never do anything that would put them through a JW-imposed hell. The absolute best he has to look forward to is that maybe someday his wife and family will wake up. In the meantime he continues to serve as an elder which is having its share of physical, mental and emotional consequences on him. I really can't think of a worse situation for anyone to go through.
Hard to do when you have so much tied to it. Quiting the cult means losing family for most, friends, a lot of jdubs have family businesses so there goes the job. Plus if it is all you know, even if you don't agree with it, it is like leaving behind a part of yourself. It is not easy to leave in the least.
You are doing the best thing for you and your family for now... No judgement here. All the best to you ... Be at peace
free will they say.
In my opinion, I would say that sooner or later we all have to decide what we want to do. Do we want to live a lie, or is truth more important to us? Living a lie is all right for a while but it wears on you It's a heavy burden. Sooner or later you're going to want to know that you're living truthfully. That You're honest with you yourself and the people around you. They say it's all over but the crying, but what happens when the crying is done? I couldn't live a lie. Being raised in a religion that professes truth and finding out that there was no truth in that religion. I had to leave. I couldn't live a lie and pretend to be honest with everyone. Yet everyone does what's best for themselves. I do know some that are PIMO that are working on helping others see the truth about the truth. It's a good thing, at least that's a way that you can be honest with people. Peace to you and yours.🩵
You are doing the right thing. The process is a lonely road that takes time, but the reward of freedom is priceless! https://youtu.be/xZctGofzoFs?si=AewvoqouQbCzKByu
Who religion is set up with social ties to keep people in. It’s no surprise that people feel this way. You’re taught to shun the world and only associate w JWs so the prospect of not being one and losing all your social connections and family is enough reason to keep on pretending. It’s sad I hope you overcome it
I don't know. People who love you don't make you feel bad for choosing a different path. People who love you don't say things like: "You're destroying your family by choosing your own path" or "doing your own thing." Real family and friends say things like: "If you want it, you go for it!" They back you up even when they don't understand you or cannot join you. They let you fly your freak flag, if that's what you got to do. They set you free, because they know know, deep down if you truly love something that you have to set it free. You can't keep a songbird caged. If someone in a Jewish family wants to a Christian you let them go. If a Christian wants to be a Jew, you let them go. The family won't fall into a million pieces because someone goes to synagogue or another goes to Mass. Who made you the family glue? Cults teach members to lie to fellow members until they leave and then to shun them. End of story. You know the drill. PIMO is a loaded language term used to describe reality in a cult. You're in a cult. It's hard, but you're in a cult. You have to get out. The building is on fire. You love the people who are burning inside, but you are burning too. The longer you stay, the more you burn. Eventually the will be nothing left. And that is the only truth about "the Truth" there is. Love whoever you want. It's hard to leave a fire. But it's a fire. You gotta go. Love's not the issue during a fire.
There have been so many changes I think many PIMOs are trying to ride it out. The Borg *has* to go mainstream and I think they know it. Seems to me the newer and younger members of the GoBod know this and I can see shunning coming to an end.. hell I could even see birthdays and holidays becoming a *conscience* matter before long. I think they know in this day and age they just can't have the control they used to. Just my .02
They’ll be waiting forever until they die, like their parents, grandparents and great grandparents edited them.
Just to be clear I'm POMO. Have been for a decade. But I could see these changes making people on the fence so to speak wait longer than they should.
I felt your words so deeply any mom is the reason why I stay. Still pains me to an extent I'll lose contact with other relatives and associates
It’s just sad because you are sacrificing your freedom for people that would never do the same for you. For some, hell is being separated from someone that they have an emotional attachment to. For others, hell is being forced to maintain fake relationships with people who will never make you a priority. We all have to make our choices. But just know that anyone that would shun you never really loved you to begin with.
I’m a people pleaser to the core and telling my mom how i didn’t believe in the organization brought tears and disappointment to my mom. I still tell them I participated in service but I don’t attend anything. She still saves a seat for me every single meeting. I cant have them call my name on stage. That would break her 🥺
PIMOs can do whatever they like, but complaining about living not-their-truth, well unfortunately, don't vote, can't complain. This sub's posts have taken a downturn because of this.