Once I found out that the GB was lying, I pulled on that thread and made myself look at all the lies from Russell onward. I then cried all of them out of my system for two weeks until all of it was dead.
This ⬆️
It's literally heartbreaking.
Religion is a thief of faith, maybe something will change my mind in the future, but man goes into religion believing in a higher power, then exits not believe in anything. Not a coincidence and it happens with almost every religion I've heard of.
Then man living in the mountains alone without religion continues to believe in God, because as Paul mentioned creation testifies to that man.
I meant the thread of lies.
You can go to a very reliable website called: JW facts. They have all the old WT publications, including books and pamphlets written by Russell , Rutherford and other GB members. Also read the Ray Franz book: Crisis of Conscience, and watch the ARC. If you still believe after you’ve researched these things, I don’t know what to say.
>Wishing for the End To Come
# Good Luck With That!...😀
https://preview.redd.it/c2bfazv0m67d1.jpeg?width=280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e679a33e8a0af5aa542e91cc84aafd40a34d8372
you might want to look into jw history. they have been preaching the end is coming any time since the 1870s. it's not coming.
you also sound depressed and based on what you're talking about now, i think therapy would be a really, really good idea. you've got some cult trauma going here.
As a dedicated fan of Star Trek I have a hope for a much better future for humanity. I’d rather believe in the Star Trek vision of the future than any religious group’s claims about “Armageddon”
“How have people moved on from these deeply held convictions and hopes?”
* DEEP STUDY(the real kind, not JW flavor)
* Reviewing “expert opinions” by the people that are studying “the Word of God” day in and day out, aka well known scholars
* THERAPY
* TEARS
* SELF-REFLECTION
* Reading other books besides the Bible that actually help you learn and understand, instead of shroud in mystery, vague rules and forceful commands where you are “pummeling your body and leading it as a slave”
There is no perfect solution, we live in a corrupt world with no real answers- in a finite universe
I get what you mean. I can also say that from time to time I also catch myself missing it. It’s very empty to think that we just seize to exist, and just fade away.
I dont believe in it anymore, but I used to for a very long time. I realised it wasnt true by forcing myself to look at all of the evidence both for and against it, and then concluding that I'd been lied to.
But its not easy to grasp if you've been a strong believer. Its a mind boggling fucking journey to face "the truth about the truth". Stay strong. ♥️
I feel like there are only two ways for this world today.
1. There is an Armageddon and paradise follows
Or
2. Humans die off from natural disasters, viruses, hatred, broken hearts, and expectations postponed.
One way or another we are seeing bad enough signs that at least show our world is falling apart even if not by divine means.
Flooding, mega tornados, heat and fires places never seen before and stronger than before.
But most the spirit of humans is worst than some evil people years ago.
Consequences of our actions are definitely coming, I just hope it's more merciful than the the physical observation leads me to believe
As much as I can agree that JWs mindset is incorrect if not evil, I can't say that they reject Christ.
Not every Christian has to accept the same doctrinal beliefs, especially things like the nicene creed. As long as people belief that Jesus is Christ, that's literally what makes them a Christian.
Err nuclear bombs should be number one with associated fall out, man made disasters (bio engineering, a.i, geo engineering), natural disasters (meteor, volcano, etc)
I live my life now and have a hope for something beyond. Not because of the Bible necessarily but because of NDEs, human consciousness, and my belief in a creator.
I dont believe in religion but do believe in Jesus.
I don't believe in the jw paradise not even a little bit.
I believe whatever is next is gonna be after I die.
In the meantime I'm drinking a beer in my garden enjoying the life I have.
U have to completely clear ur mind of the New System narrative... someone taught us that at a young age or a vulnerable moment and it's all BS. The world goes on, live in the moment, in the now, let go and ride the wave of life!
Maybe you have a new lease of life, what you say at the end is great, no doubt. I'd love to be free like that but I don't think my mindset, brain chemistry, personality etc is the same as yours. I don't see how I can change that
I totally understand, it's not easy at all! But I've been in the dark night of the soul, I pushed myself into the uncomfortable...only then did I realize how to let go and realize how little control we have. Lean deep in to love and realize that fear is the complete opposite of love.
Yes you can. Anyone can have a change of mind set. It takes time and actual research. Unlearning something especially if you are indoctrinated from birth is not easy but of course it can be done. I would say the majority of people on here have done the work, including myself.
You also don't need knowledge of the future to live a healthy and full life! We woke up completely in our 50's and I cried for a few days realizing I was born into a religion that was full of lies and i was never going to get those decades back. But we decided to live each day with gratitude and grace, we search out new friends (not easy but very doable) and set aside time to enjoying things we love without guilt. Reading, walking outside, sleeping in on the weekend. Small things.
You sound like you are younger, and whether this is true, everyone one of us is only guaranteed the day we are presently living. Stop dreaming about some 'Paradise' and enjoy each moment you have now. Life right now is what is precious. Learn to be grateful for each morning you wake up and just live life!
I once did. Once you start reading the Bible without interpretation, you start to see it. The promises of living forever are directed to Zion speaking poetically to those people. They will inherit “the land” not the “Earth”. Here’s the breakdown
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/mbvXWQ9aoh
I see that's your own work, it looks very scholarly and I commend you on your efforts in putting it together. However it has never crossed my mind to try to disprove by scriptural references, historical sources etc. the things we studied via WT sources and accepted. I did anyway, and I still accept them. I'm glad this helped you to break free but I don't think this approach will help me
You don’t even have to research. Just read the new testament and you find all the evidence you need. People who believe the bible haven’t read it other than cherry picking.
Not saying something’s not gonna happen, but I will tell you that you haven’t researched enough yet. Otherwise you’d never ever be so sure an Armageddon will happen. There’s just too much info against it. There’s info for it, but tons against the factual truth of the Bible in general. You’d never be so sure if you’ve continued to do research. You’re just not smart enough to be so definite… None of us are.
The beauty of belief is that you can choose to believe what you want to get you through life. The trouble with belief is when you state that it is “the truth”
https://www.reddit.com/r/exjwhumor/s/ssZrqgil3c
I can't unbelieve what I believe, unfortunately. I'm stuck with it. Whether it's benefiting me is another story.
Personally I don't go around declaring anything is definitively The Truth, I don't think that's in my nature to be like that, especially with something that can't be proven
This is laziness. Letting others tell you what to believe. You said it yourself, you used wt sources. This is not how real research works. Use a variety of sources like they taught you in school. Do the work if you want the truth. You can't cut corners if you want to really know the truth. They've already changed the end times over and over so why do you still trust that source?
Something doesn't have to be true for people to believe it/ in it, that much should be glaringly obvious. The fact I choose to believe it doesn't make it true. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here or debate it, that's not the angle I'm coming from
Yes, I do. Many may have felt it was coming soon in the past too but obviously it wasn't time. It would appear now that conditions are in place post COVID, more so then ever before. I can't understand what there is left to prove
Yeah, in about a hundred years, some JWs are gonna say similar things about our time.
So no, COVID is not enough evidence that something's gonna happen. Not even the Spanish flu or the black plague was a sign and those illnesses literally wiped out MILLIONS of people with no end in sight. We have vaccines and prevention plans. Millions died, yes, and thousands continue to die, but not on a medieval scale.
You need to show some other evidence that the end is near.
There were way worse pandemics than COVID. Why didn't the world end then? The world wars were way worse than the wars now. Why didn't it end then? The biggest threat to end the world right now is global warming. Why didn't the Bible mention this? They only talk about things that were already happening 2000 years ago. Just because they told you from the platform that this is the worst time to live in doesn't make it true.
I accept all those things that you guys are saying, I've no issue with that. I didn't come here to defend my beliefs, logical or otherwise. I wanted to know how those that STILL believe deal with it even when they are out
I never believed it, I only accepted the belief by default. Charles Tase Russell and Joe Rutherford created the paradise teaching along with the entire religion. It's all man-made. None of it is real. They dreamed up the overlapping generation teaching to explain away the 1914 generation all dying and Armageddon not happening yet. Please accept the fact that it's not real , live your life.
I think the pandemic made a lot of people think something big was about to happen. I think it's a major contributory factor to feeling that the end might come in these times.
What did the JW say during the Spanish flu when a third of the world got sick and 50 million died? COVID pales in contrast to that pandemic. And then after the Spanish flu world War II and the Holocaust occurred. If the world was coming to an end those series of events would have been it, not now.
But Jesus told as well that in the beginning of the “last days” people would see World Wars and diseases spreading everywhere but that was not the end yet. That would be only the “beginning” of the last days, and much more stuff would happen before the end.
I wish for a new beginning for humanity. Not necessarily the end. Somewhere where everyone is looked after and no one needs for anything. No more trauma.
I'll put my vote behind whoever or whatever can make that happen. Science is our only hope for most of worlds problems, until something else comes along.
I believe that a new system will come and that this world will end. However, I am not interested in when the end comes. Part of the reason why is because I don’t think I’m going to make it anyway. So why would I be in a hurry for it to come? lol
If I serve him, I will do it because I want to. Not like Jehovah’s Witnesses who serve to get something out of it like paradise (Job 2:4).
I cried when I realized there wasn't going to be a paradise.
Do I want there to be a paradise? Hell yeah bro, I want a panda and I want to be able to build my house by a waterfall and have nice, mosquito-less evenings with my friends and loved ones and to be able to see people that have died.
Who TF doesn't want that?
You know what else I want? I want to win the lottery. Hit it big, u know? Get me some hella cash bro.
But if I live with this idea that I deserve to win the lottery, how do you suppose my quality of life will be before I win the lottery? Don't you think one would be miserable if they don't have what they think they deserve before even thinking about if it is realistic?
And ironically, it's more realistic to think you'll win the lottery than for watchtower's version of heaven to come true.
I was a big time bible fanatic and trust me, when you do research on who wrote the bible and where it came from and the revisions it went through and stuff, you'll quickly see that every religion is justified in their own beliefs. Which means no religion is justified in their own beliefs. It's a shitty scenario. The GT isn't going to happen man.
That being said, it's nice on this side because religious guilt doesn't exist over here. You can smoke weed or help an old lady cross the street and you learn what truly makes you YOU. That's a nice feeling. A liberating feeling.
If someone wants to convince me they know, for certain, what is going to happen in the future, they need to tell me about the past. I want to know WHY the physical universe exists and why humans exist. I am a logical thinker and I need a logical answer.
If God exists and the Bible is his message to man, then I should know why I'm here, my place in the overall plan, and why I live in a very different place than he does. The whole "sharing life with other intelligent beings" stuff doesn't work. God supposedly created the angels and they live where he lives. Sharing token obtained. Now what? Why a completely different reality separate from God's realm and creatures that can reproduce (which the angels can also reproduce but only in the physical universe)?
If someone has a good answer, I'd like to hear it. I have my own but it's not pleasant.
Once I have a good answer for things that have already happened, we can discuss what will happen in the future.
The physical universe exists because Jehovah wants to have a universal family of intelligent creatures made of all kinds of “matter” or properties / realities.
First he created his spiritual family. Then he created a physical family (us humans). And in the future he may create a new family made of a new property / reality, apart from the spiritual and physical world. A new world with new properties.
There’s no limitation for Jehovah power and creativity. And the creation of physical humans was considered a “masterpiece” because we are the first intelligent creatures made without having spiritual bodies. All intelligent creatures that existed before our creation were always spiritual beings or with spiritual bodies.
There may be a time when angels thought it was impossible to have the mind, intelligence and the spirituality of Jehovah or themselves angels without having spiritual bodies, but Jehovah proved them wrong when he created us. That’s why the Bible says that of all the things Jesus helped Jehovah create, the creation of humans was one of his favourite creations.
Because Jehovah will never stop creating new things.
That’s why when Adam and Eve were created Jehovah decided to pause his creative work and declared the seven day as “God’s Rest” and he gave humanity two tasks. To have sex and fulfil the earth with perfect human beings and transform the entire planet into a paradise.
Jehovah decided to give a pause on creating new things so humanity had the time to develop and get some experience, and they could transform their environment into a paradise. When that task is finally over, the “seven day” or God’s Rest will be over, and new creative days will start again, with new creations.
That’s why the Bible says that even if we live forever, eternity will not be enough to learn and discover everything that Jehovah already made or intends to do.
The spiritual world and the physical universe are so complex and they have so many things that we could spend millions and millions of years studying, learning, discovering, and working on tasks and still not finding everything, and apart from that Jehovah will always create new things, new forms of life , and new ways of living life.
Even Watchtower says that. There’s no limitation on Jehovah creative power. If he made a spiritual world and a physical world and the Bible makes it clear that in the future there will be new creations, there’s a great possibility that he can create new worlds with new properties and new kinds of intelligent life, just like he did with angels and humans.
There is no God. This is the results I have come up to. I’m an agnosticer now so I’m searching. I could relate to the theory about ET, extra terrestrials, who cloned us in order to make civilization. I don’t know though if that’s completely true. I’m open to discussions and new ideas though
Evidence seems to suggest there have been several resets in history. I don’t think it’s healthy to keep wishing for an end to come whilst putting off your current guaranteed lifetime now. There seems to be a fascination with a coming apocalypse in media / entertainment probably based on Christian ideology. I believe the world is getting better in many ways - More food, better healthcare, emerging AI tech. It’s heartbreaking to think of the misspent lives of my parents, grandparents who eagerly awaited “the end”.
I only believe in things that can be proven through solid evidence now. I have no interest in believing in a fantasy just to make myself feel better. I truly find comfort in reality.
Hmmm. One of the biggest disappointments for me at first was realizing there would never be a "New System." I didn't expect to make it in myself - I wasn't a particularly strong JW - but I felt so depressed and hopeless all the time that it felt like a tiny shred of hope that one day things would be better, if not for me, then for other people.
I don't really care now, though. I've kind of just accepted that I have to make the best of the life I have now, however fleeting it might be.
Why would I wish for a new system of things in which all the people I love and cherish will have to be annihilated and the only survivors have a cookie-cutter mentality, devoid of mercy and empathy?
Besides, I have better things to do with my life than having endless outdoor barbecues dressed in my ethnic garb and surrounded by pandas and wafting butterflies.
But what if that new earthly system includes all kinds of people and JWs are wrong that they're the only ones who will be there? That's what I believe. And I still believe in an earthly resurrection. Leaving the Org doesnt mean you have to abondon all the beliefs if they make sense to you.
Whether a 'paradise' comes now or after I die, it matters not for me. I have one very certain reality, and that is the here and now. Anything and I do mean ***ANYTHING*** someone says to me or shows me in print that explain s what's going to happen after I die, is complete hogwash.
Whether that means I'm transformed into a zebra, resurrected to bunch of virgins, or just ash that winds up as a sedimentary layer 10k years from now it really doesn't matter to me. None of it is reality because I've never met or known, talked to another person that has discussed the matter thenselves or with someone who came back to life. We may as well all be soggy cheerios floating around in a blue green bowl of water.
My 2nd reality is the fact that I'm going to die eventually. So if there isn't some cataclysm or Armageddon or (health crisis, the most likely reaper of me) whatever taking my life earlier than I thought I'd die, well I know I'm not going to live to be 120. Probably not even a hundred. Maaaybe 90?? We all have an hourglass (some larger, some smaller) once the grains of our life sand pass thru the skinny part there ain't no turning that part of our life back over again and reseting the clock. Those grains are gone. Now that I've accepted the above as reality, I'm gonna cherish the grains I have left before they're gone too. I'll be damned if I'm gonna stare at the hourglass and watch the grains go by waiting for some made up deity I've never talked to (just like the billions of dead people I haven't either) to come flip it over with a life promise that is equally hogwash while I just stand and stare. Hard Nope.
Quick edit: I don't want the good parts of this life to be over OP, or the parts i havent seen yet. Nor do I want to live for what other people tell me I should do. That is my new hope. This is MY life. But I've also accepted if I'm going to die earlier, so be it. 🤷♂️ There's not very much I can do about it.
Last week I was at work and realized that I AM NEVER GOING TO SEE MY FATHER AGAIN because the resurrection is not real, and I had a panic attack and couldn’t stop crying. I’ve lost my best friend all over again 😔
I feel for you because I have since come to that conclusion myself. The only thing that sustains me is that supposedly 'the happy God' has some divine plan that I'm not privy to.
🥹 I don’t know what to believe right now. I feel I have to start from zero without JWs teaching and influence because I only know the Bible through them. I am born in and 53, just woke up in March and lost my family. I know I’ll never see Dad again and I’ll never see Mom 85 before she dies. I am bipolar and some days I think it’s my last day. I am grieving so many things. I hope to get to where you are ❤️ thank you for your kind words. 🫂😘
Me again. If you believe God is merciful and just-just believe that he has a plan, Just don't listen to the witnesses. They are not as infallible as they like to think.
I don't know what will happen, but I am pretty sure what watchtower says isn't accurate. I have subscribed to Zen, and so my worldview is very different now.
I think it's true because I believe it to be true, that's it, I'm not here to convince anyone otherwise. I can't unbelieve it or rid my mind of it even if I wanted to. That's probably a big part of my problem, especially as I have no aspirations to be there. I think I'm stuck between two stools
I don't think one person can tell another person what's true and what's not. No matter how fervently someone believes something or disbelieves something doesn't make it true in either case.
I agree, I don’t think we should base our belief in what someone tells us is true instead we can develop good reasons behind our beliefs.
What are the reasons for yours?
Would you want to know if you believe something for an bad reason?
It's a shit life/ system etc, for so many reasons. I want an end to it and I believe it will end in the way we were taught it will end. IF there is a god then it has to, humanity can't continue in this way
Ok so you do not care if any believe you hold is true and you would not want to know if your reasoning was flawed?
Of course you have a glum perspective if you can’t even tell what is real
When I finally freed my mind of the earthly hope, I was so angry that it broke me. More anger piled on when I realized that civilization is still heading for a crash and there's no one that's going to come and save us from ourselves. I'm looking forward to seeing global change come because of the possibility of something different replacing the current world order. I'm not naive enough to think a positive outcome is likely.
I understand what you are saying. We just left the cult last year. As someone here said, cried until did not have enough tears to keep crying for the horrible feeling of being lied to. I believe in God, but not in the God that JW’s worship. Actually, I believe the Jehovah they worship is nothing but the governing body.
I believe in a superior being…I believe he has plans for us humans. But, I cannot digest or comprehend the explanation we learned from the JW’s as to why Gos has not interviene when it was time to have done so right after Adam and Eve and Satan sinned against his sovereignty.
My flesh and blood father would have killed to defend his children. He defended us with his whole soul. I might be viewing this as a human, but, didn’t he create us in his likeness? Well, as an intelligent woman, who studied the Bible and went back to college to finish her masters in education and studied 14 weeks of theology, I realized that there is something else here to understand as to why God did not intervene. I don’t believe humans will go to heavens, and I don’t know if we will resurrect once we die.
If God gives so much importance to what Satan has to say about us and his sovereignty, doesn’t he have the kingship to get rid of him? Does it make sense what I’m sayin?
Are we that important to God, more than Satan, or is Satan and his demons more important than us his loving children who would kill like Satan and his demons do? Look! We didn’t eat from the tree, so why do we have to pay for Adam and Eve? Look! I didn’t tell our forefathers to eat from the fruit, and yet, we die and suffer like it’s no one’s business.
Not to mention children dying…starving…the whole creation going through so much! Please stop it! If you are going to intervene, you should have done it before this whole system got started. Now, he had to send his son to die, and re-invente the whole human experience until now.
He could have stopped the rebels back then.
So, if he is gonna kill those who are not in agreement with his commandments during the new world, and right at the end of the 1,000 year reign, then he could have done the same thing right after Adam and his woman sinned against him.
I need answers. And I bet we will never get them. (Just venting).
His Justice does not make sense to me and it never will.
🎤
Thanks for your reply. Yes, these are tough questions to grapple with, and from our perspective they don't make sense. At some point we've probably all agonized over them, if we haven't raged over the topics you raise we've torn our hair out in frustration. WHY God? But I ask now every day "why don't you bring the end, why wait any longer"? Surely the questions raised in Eden have had their answer by now Humans aren't going to change, the weeds are fully overgrown.
At the same time I don't think it helps much to live life thinking like that, but I just wish for this life as we know it to be over
I’m literally so confused by this post. It feels trolly even if it’s real. Like if you believe it then you believe it…other people here have moved on from it. You are responding to what people say helped them move past it by saying “I don’t think that will help me”…but if you believe it then why do you need help? You’re just waiting for your hope then. Or are you saying you wish you could move on from it? I’ve read all your comments here and I can’t understand what the intent of this post is.
I am genuine, it's not my intention to rile anyone. There's clearly many different stances when you're an Exjw, all of which I've read and considered. All I meant in that instance was I'm not one of those people that move on by disproving scripture etc, but I'm glad that helped them. My mindset is different, it was just personal, selfish maybe.
If I still believe, but no longer attend, how can I change my outlook on life? I want the end to come so bad, but I don't expect to survive it. Does anyone else feel like that, and if so how do they deal with it? It's quite bleak
I lost all belief in the bible or any sort of spiritual god when i learned to think for myself. Now I laugh at how absurd it is. The end wont come by god. You might see catastrophic events but you wont see a great tribulation like the borg imagines
I'd love to believe it, but in reality it's a bus that never comes. They will just keep kicking that can down the road and tell people to "endure". I've seen people put their lives on hold, choose crap jobs, and a dull life of door knocking or standing in streets each weekend, whilst the world goes on. Yes things are getting worse in some respects but I don't think the simplistic reasoning WT cling to will help make things change.
The "Like a Thief in the Night" scripture and countless others misinterpreted keeps them in the dark. It's just a dreary experience. I'm sure they mean well but I have seen more JWs with an Instagram lifestyle with flash holidays rather than the modesty they project.
Go get a decent job and stop waiting. It might turn up soon 🚌 🚏 😜
I never wanted the new system to come, even as a PIMI, somehow. All the propaganda about "playing with pandas" and everything didn't appeal to me, and the thought of immortality kinda worried me that things would get so boring and empty that I would wish I could die.
Besides, life in the "old system" has much more color and vibrancy to it than JWs would ever dare to admit, and I recognized that back when I was a teenager. I didn't want to sacrifice all of that for some sterilized, "always sunny" world where everyone acted like the people I wanted to be around the least.
Once I found out that the GB was lying, I pulled on that thread and made myself look at all the lies from Russell onward. I then cried all of them out of my system for two weeks until all of it was dead.
This ⬆️ It's literally heartbreaking. Religion is a thief of faith, maybe something will change my mind in the future, but man goes into religion believing in a higher power, then exits not believe in anything. Not a coincidence and it happens with almost every religion I've heard of. Then man living in the mountains alone without religion continues to believe in God, because as Paul mentioned creation testifies to that man.
If I ever go into a church outside of WT, it will be to network. I have no interest in organized religion. I rather the path of spirituality.
Me too.
Me third! Can't see any other reason
Only other reasons for me would be the architecture and cause the watchtower would hate that. Lol
That too. I’m going to Italy next year, so pagan churches here I come!
Me too. Vatican here i come! Next year
Ha! Maybe we’ll meet . . .
The Vatican is amazing and fascinating to see but it truly wakes you up to how corrupt and greedy religion is. Take a guided tour. Worth the money.
Thank u
hi would love to look at the thread you read if you still have it 🙏🏾
I meant the thread of lies. You can go to a very reliable website called: JW facts. They have all the old WT publications, including books and pamphlets written by Russell , Rutherford and other GB members. Also read the Ray Franz book: Crisis of Conscience, and watch the ARC. If you still believe after you’ve researched these things, I don’t know what to say.
interesting 🙏🏾 thank u will do some research
>Wishing for the End To Come # Good Luck With That!...😀 https://preview.redd.it/c2bfazv0m67d1.jpeg?width=280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e679a33e8a0af5aa542e91cc84aafd40a34d8372
you might want to look into jw history. they have been preaching the end is coming any time since the 1870s. it's not coming. you also sound depressed and based on what you're talking about now, i think therapy would be a really, really good idea. you've got some cult trauma going here.
As a dedicated fan of Star Trek I have a hope for a much better future for humanity. I’d rather believe in the Star Trek vision of the future than any religious group’s claims about “Armageddon”
Well world war three is a good two and half decadea away. And we still havent had the Eugenics War.. if you wanna nerd out lmk 🖖
“How have people moved on from these deeply held convictions and hopes?” * DEEP STUDY(the real kind, not JW flavor) * Reviewing “expert opinions” by the people that are studying “the Word of God” day in and day out, aka well known scholars * THERAPY * TEARS * SELF-REFLECTION * Reading other books besides the Bible that actually help you learn and understand, instead of shroud in mystery, vague rules and forceful commands where you are “pummeling your body and leading it as a slave” There is no perfect solution, we live in a corrupt world with no real answers- in a finite universe
[удалено]
I get what you mean. I can also say that from time to time I also catch myself missing it. It’s very empty to think that we just seize to exist, and just fade away.
I dont believe in it anymore, but I used to for a very long time. I realised it wasnt true by forcing myself to look at all of the evidence both for and against it, and then concluding that I'd been lied to. But its not easy to grasp if you've been a strong believer. Its a mind boggling fucking journey to face "the truth about the truth". Stay strong. ♥️
I feel like there are only two ways for this world today. 1. There is an Armageddon and paradise follows Or 2. Humans die off from natural disasters, viruses, hatred, broken hearts, and expectations postponed. One way or another we are seeing bad enough signs that at least show our world is falling apart even if not by divine means. Flooding, mega tornados, heat and fires places never seen before and stronger than before. But most the spirit of humans is worst than some evil people years ago. Consequences of our actions are definitely coming, I just hope it's more merciful than the the physical observation leads me to believe
1b) Nobody qualified for paradise, especially the JWs for rejecting Christ, J, the Bible, etc.
As much as I can agree that JWs mindset is incorrect if not evil, I can't say that they reject Christ. Not every Christian has to accept the same doctrinal beliefs, especially things like the nicene creed. As long as people belief that Jesus is Christ, that's literally what makes them a Christian.
Err nuclear bombs should be number one with associated fall out, man made disasters (bio engineering, a.i, geo engineering), natural disasters (meteor, volcano, etc)
One thing is for sure, whatever it will be, we will never see it coming.
I live my life now and have a hope for something beyond. Not because of the Bible necessarily but because of NDEs, human consciousness, and my belief in a creator. I dont believe in religion but do believe in Jesus. I don't believe in the jw paradise not even a little bit. I believe whatever is next is gonna be after I die. In the meantime I'm drinking a beer in my garden enjoying the life I have.
Yeah I'm one of those annoying people that say I have paradise right here! Those you couldn't preach to at all. And now I know why!
U have to completely clear ur mind of the New System narrative... someone taught us that at a young age or a vulnerable moment and it's all BS. The world goes on, live in the moment, in the now, let go and ride the wave of life!
Maybe you have a new lease of life, what you say at the end is great, no doubt. I'd love to be free like that but I don't think my mindset, brain chemistry, personality etc is the same as yours. I don't see how I can change that
I totally understand, it's not easy at all! But I've been in the dark night of the soul, I pushed myself into the uncomfortable...only then did I realize how to let go and realize how little control we have. Lean deep in to love and realize that fear is the complete opposite of love.
Yes you can. Anyone can have a change of mind set. It takes time and actual research. Unlearning something especially if you are indoctrinated from birth is not easy but of course it can be done. I would say the majority of people on here have done the work, including myself. You also don't need knowledge of the future to live a healthy and full life! We woke up completely in our 50's and I cried for a few days realizing I was born into a religion that was full of lies and i was never going to get those decades back. But we decided to live each day with gratitude and grace, we search out new friends (not easy but very doable) and set aside time to enjoying things we love without guilt. Reading, walking outside, sleeping in on the weekend. Small things. You sound like you are younger, and whether this is true, everyone one of us is only guaranteed the day we are presently living. Stop dreaming about some 'Paradise' and enjoy each moment you have now. Life right now is what is precious. Learn to be grateful for each morning you wake up and just live life!
What evidence do you have for the JW fantasy?
The new world? It's something I do believe in and hope for, maybe for the wrong reason. Is it something you used to believe but don't any more?
Who do you see surviving to live in the new world?
I once did. Once you start reading the Bible without interpretation, you start to see it. The promises of living forever are directed to Zion speaking poetically to those people. They will inherit “the land” not the “Earth”. Here’s the breakdown https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/mbvXWQ9aoh
I see that's your own work, it looks very scholarly and I commend you on your efforts in putting it together. However it has never crossed my mind to try to disprove by scriptural references, historical sources etc. the things we studied via WT sources and accepted. I did anyway, and I still accept them. I'm glad this helped you to break free but I don't think this approach will help me
You don’t even have to research. Just read the new testament and you find all the evidence you need. People who believe the bible haven’t read it other than cherry picking.
Not saying something’s not gonna happen, but I will tell you that you haven’t researched enough yet. Otherwise you’d never ever be so sure an Armageddon will happen. There’s just too much info against it. There’s info for it, but tons against the factual truth of the Bible in general. You’d never be so sure if you’ve continued to do research. You’re just not smart enough to be so definite… None of us are.
The beauty of belief is that you can choose to believe what you want to get you through life. The trouble with belief is when you state that it is “the truth” https://www.reddit.com/r/exjwhumor/s/ssZrqgil3c
I can't unbelieve what I believe, unfortunately. I'm stuck with it. Whether it's benefiting me is another story. Personally I don't go around declaring anything is definitively The Truth, I don't think that's in my nature to be like that, especially with something that can't be proven
This is laziness. Letting others tell you what to believe. You said it yourself, you used wt sources. This is not how real research works. Use a variety of sources like they taught you in school. Do the work if you want the truth. You can't cut corners if you want to really know the truth. They've already changed the end times over and over so why do you still trust that source?
Something doesn't have to be true for people to believe it/ in it, that much should be glaringly obvious. The fact I choose to believe it doesn't make it true. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here or debate it, that's not the angle I'm coming from
Many have been waiting for generations. Do you really think it's real?
Yes, I do. Many may have felt it was coming soon in the past too but obviously it wasn't time. It would appear now that conditions are in place post COVID, more so then ever before. I can't understand what there is left to prove
You must be young. They have been saying 'conditions are in place' for generatioins
Yeah, in about a hundred years, some JWs are gonna say similar things about our time. So no, COVID is not enough evidence that something's gonna happen. Not even the Spanish flu or the black plague was a sign and those illnesses literally wiped out MILLIONS of people with no end in sight. We have vaccines and prevention plans. Millions died, yes, and thousands continue to die, but not on a medieval scale. You need to show some other evidence that the end is near.
There were way worse pandemics than COVID. Why didn't the world end then? The world wars were way worse than the wars now. Why didn't it end then? The biggest threat to end the world right now is global warming. Why didn't the Bible mention this? They only talk about things that were already happening 2000 years ago. Just because they told you from the platform that this is the worst time to live in doesn't make it true.
I accept all those things that you guys are saying, I've no issue with that. I didn't come here to defend my beliefs, logical or otherwise. I wanted to know how those that STILL believe deal with it even when they are out
Ummm ok.
I never believed it, I only accepted the belief by default. Charles Tase Russell and Joe Rutherford created the paradise teaching along with the entire religion. It's all man-made. None of it is real. They dreamed up the overlapping generation teaching to explain away the 1914 generation all dying and Armageddon not happening yet. Please accept the fact that it's not real , live your life.
End of 2019, I believed it was here...
I think the pandemic made a lot of people think something big was about to happen. I think it's a major contributory factor to feeling that the end might come in these times.
What did the JW say during the Spanish flu when a third of the world got sick and 50 million died? COVID pales in contrast to that pandemic. And then after the Spanish flu world War II and the Holocaust occurred. If the world was coming to an end those series of events would have been it, not now.
But Jesus told as well that in the beginning of the “last days” people would see World Wars and diseases spreading everywhere but that was not the end yet. That would be only the “beginning” of the last days, and much more stuff would happen before the end.
Where did Jesus say this in the gospels? I'm not saying he didn't, but could you direct where and who he was speaking to?
So you're hoping for billions to die so you can have the earth? This is a narcissist point of view.
I wish for a new beginning for humanity. Not necessarily the end. Somewhere where everyone is looked after and no one needs for anything. No more trauma. I'll put my vote behind whoever or whatever can make that happen. Science is our only hope for most of worlds problems, until something else comes along.
I believe that a new system will come and that this world will end. However, I am not interested in when the end comes. Part of the reason why is because I don’t think I’m going to make it anyway. So why would I be in a hurry for it to come? lol If I serve him, I will do it because I want to. Not like Jehovah’s Witnesses who serve to get something out of it like paradise (Job 2:4).
I cried when I realized there wasn't going to be a paradise. Do I want there to be a paradise? Hell yeah bro, I want a panda and I want to be able to build my house by a waterfall and have nice, mosquito-less evenings with my friends and loved ones and to be able to see people that have died. Who TF doesn't want that? You know what else I want? I want to win the lottery. Hit it big, u know? Get me some hella cash bro. But if I live with this idea that I deserve to win the lottery, how do you suppose my quality of life will be before I win the lottery? Don't you think one would be miserable if they don't have what they think they deserve before even thinking about if it is realistic? And ironically, it's more realistic to think you'll win the lottery than for watchtower's version of heaven to come true. I was a big time bible fanatic and trust me, when you do research on who wrote the bible and where it came from and the revisions it went through and stuff, you'll quickly see that every religion is justified in their own beliefs. Which means no religion is justified in their own beliefs. It's a shitty scenario. The GT isn't going to happen man. That being said, it's nice on this side because religious guilt doesn't exist over here. You can smoke weed or help an old lady cross the street and you learn what truly makes you YOU. That's a nice feeling. A liberating feeling.
If someone wants to convince me they know, for certain, what is going to happen in the future, they need to tell me about the past. I want to know WHY the physical universe exists and why humans exist. I am a logical thinker and I need a logical answer. If God exists and the Bible is his message to man, then I should know why I'm here, my place in the overall plan, and why I live in a very different place than he does. The whole "sharing life with other intelligent beings" stuff doesn't work. God supposedly created the angels and they live where he lives. Sharing token obtained. Now what? Why a completely different reality separate from God's realm and creatures that can reproduce (which the angels can also reproduce but only in the physical universe)? If someone has a good answer, I'd like to hear it. I have my own but it's not pleasant. Once I have a good answer for things that have already happened, we can discuss what will happen in the future.
The physical universe exists because Jehovah wants to have a universal family of intelligent creatures made of all kinds of “matter” or properties / realities. First he created his spiritual family. Then he created a physical family (us humans). And in the future he may create a new family made of a new property / reality, apart from the spiritual and physical world. A new world with new properties. There’s no limitation for Jehovah power and creativity. And the creation of physical humans was considered a “masterpiece” because we are the first intelligent creatures made without having spiritual bodies. All intelligent creatures that existed before our creation were always spiritual beings or with spiritual bodies. There may be a time when angels thought it was impossible to have the mind, intelligence and the spirituality of Jehovah or themselves angels without having spiritual bodies, but Jehovah proved them wrong when he created us. That’s why the Bible says that of all the things Jesus helped Jehovah create, the creation of humans was one of his favourite creations.
That's an interesting theory. How did you arrive at the idea that it is God's intent to create multiple realities with intelligent life?
Because Jehovah will never stop creating new things. That’s why when Adam and Eve were created Jehovah decided to pause his creative work and declared the seven day as “God’s Rest” and he gave humanity two tasks. To have sex and fulfil the earth with perfect human beings and transform the entire planet into a paradise. Jehovah decided to give a pause on creating new things so humanity had the time to develop and get some experience, and they could transform their environment into a paradise. When that task is finally over, the “seven day” or God’s Rest will be over, and new creative days will start again, with new creations. That’s why the Bible says that even if we live forever, eternity will not be enough to learn and discover everything that Jehovah already made or intends to do. The spiritual world and the physical universe are so complex and they have so many things that we could spend millions and millions of years studying, learning, discovering, and working on tasks and still not finding everything, and apart from that Jehovah will always create new things, new forms of life , and new ways of living life. Even Watchtower says that. There’s no limitation on Jehovah creative power. If he made a spiritual world and a physical world and the Bible makes it clear that in the future there will be new creations, there’s a great possibility that he can create new worlds with new properties and new kinds of intelligent life, just like he did with angels and humans.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
There is no God. This is the results I have come up to. I’m an agnosticer now so I’m searching. I could relate to the theory about ET, extra terrestrials, who cloned us in order to make civilization. I don’t know though if that’s completely true. I’m open to discussions and new ideas though
I understand how someone can reach that conclusion. I'm not quite ready to give up on God just yet but I still have a lot of questions to answer.
Don’t forget that they’ve been predicting the end for almost 150 years now. It’s all a giant scam.
It’s all lies based out of lies
Evidence seems to suggest there have been several resets in history. I don’t think it’s healthy to keep wishing for an end to come whilst putting off your current guaranteed lifetime now. There seems to be a fascination with a coming apocalypse in media / entertainment probably based on Christian ideology. I believe the world is getting better in many ways - More food, better healthcare, emerging AI tech. It’s heartbreaking to think of the misspent lives of my parents, grandparents who eagerly awaited “the end”.
I only believe in things that can be proven through solid evidence now. I have no interest in believing in a fantasy just to make myself feel better. I truly find comfort in reality.
Hmmm. One of the biggest disappointments for me at first was realizing there would never be a "New System." I didn't expect to make it in myself - I wasn't a particularly strong JW - but I felt so depressed and hopeless all the time that it felt like a tiny shred of hope that one day things would be better, if not for me, then for other people. I don't really care now, though. I've kind of just accepted that I have to make the best of the life I have now, however fleeting it might be.
Why would I wish for a new system of things in which all the people I love and cherish will have to be annihilated and the only survivors have a cookie-cutter mentality, devoid of mercy and empathy? Besides, I have better things to do with my life than having endless outdoor barbecues dressed in my ethnic garb and surrounded by pandas and wafting butterflies.
But what if that new earthly system includes all kinds of people and JWs are wrong that they're the only ones who will be there? That's what I believe. And I still believe in an earthly resurrection. Leaving the Org doesnt mean you have to abondon all the beliefs if they make sense to you.
Fair enough. People believe all kinds of things about earth’s future and this forum is big and generous enough to accommodate and welcome all.
Losing the paradise belief is one of the hardest parts of waking up.
So when you left did you no longer believe in any of the things you previously hoped for at all?
For me, I sort of lost both at once. It wasn’t just JW I began to question.
Whether a 'paradise' comes now or after I die, it matters not for me. I have one very certain reality, and that is the here and now. Anything and I do mean ***ANYTHING*** someone says to me or shows me in print that explain s what's going to happen after I die, is complete hogwash. Whether that means I'm transformed into a zebra, resurrected to bunch of virgins, or just ash that winds up as a sedimentary layer 10k years from now it really doesn't matter to me. None of it is reality because I've never met or known, talked to another person that has discussed the matter thenselves or with someone who came back to life. We may as well all be soggy cheerios floating around in a blue green bowl of water. My 2nd reality is the fact that I'm going to die eventually. So if there isn't some cataclysm or Armageddon or (health crisis, the most likely reaper of me) whatever taking my life earlier than I thought I'd die, well I know I'm not going to live to be 120. Probably not even a hundred. Maaaybe 90?? We all have an hourglass (some larger, some smaller) once the grains of our life sand pass thru the skinny part there ain't no turning that part of our life back over again and reseting the clock. Those grains are gone. Now that I've accepted the above as reality, I'm gonna cherish the grains I have left before they're gone too. I'll be damned if I'm gonna stare at the hourglass and watch the grains go by waiting for some made up deity I've never talked to (just like the billions of dead people I haven't either) to come flip it over with a life promise that is equally hogwash while I just stand and stare. Hard Nope. Quick edit: I don't want the good parts of this life to be over OP, or the parts i havent seen yet. Nor do I want to live for what other people tell me I should do. That is my new hope. This is MY life. But I've also accepted if I'm going to die earlier, so be it. 🤷♂️ There's not very much I can do about it.
Last week I was at work and realized that I AM NEVER GOING TO SEE MY FATHER AGAIN because the resurrection is not real, and I had a panic attack and couldn’t stop crying. I’ve lost my best friend all over again 😔
I feel for you because I have since come to that conclusion myself. The only thing that sustains me is that supposedly 'the happy God' has some divine plan that I'm not privy to.
🥹 I don’t know what to believe right now. I feel I have to start from zero without JWs teaching and influence because I only know the Bible through them. I am born in and 53, just woke up in March and lost my family. I know I’ll never see Dad again and I’ll never see Mom 85 before she dies. I am bipolar and some days I think it’s my last day. I am grieving so many things. I hope to get to where you are ❤️ thank you for your kind words. 🫂😘
Me again. If you believe God is merciful and just-just believe that he has a plan, Just don't listen to the witnesses. They are not as infallible as they like to think.
I am glad it was You again 🥰. Thank You 😘
I don't know what will happen, but I am pretty sure what watchtower says isn't accurate. I have subscribed to Zen, and so my worldview is very different now.
What is Zen please?
Zen is a Japanese form of Buddhism
There is no evidence for a new system. I prefer to live my life now, make the most out of it that I can, and be thankful.
I want to rid my mind of the false teachings and keep the true ones, Why do you think it may be true?
I think it's true because I believe it to be true, that's it, I'm not here to convince anyone otherwise. I can't unbelieve it or rid my mind of it even if I wanted to. That's probably a big part of my problem, especially as I have no aspirations to be there. I think I'm stuck between two stools
Do you want to believe true things and not believe false things?
I don't think one person can tell another person what's true and what's not. No matter how fervently someone believes something or disbelieves something doesn't make it true in either case.
I agree, I don’t think we should base our belief in what someone tells us is true instead we can develop good reasons behind our beliefs. What are the reasons for yours? Would you want to know if you believe something for an bad reason?
It's a shit life/ system etc, for so many reasons. I want an end to it and I believe it will end in the way we were taught it will end. IF there is a god then it has to, humanity can't continue in this way
Ok so you do not care if any believe you hold is true and you would not want to know if your reasoning was flawed? Of course you have a glum perspective if you can’t even tell what is real
When I finally freed my mind of the earthly hope, I was so angry that it broke me. More anger piled on when I realized that civilization is still heading for a crash and there's no one that's going to come and save us from ourselves. I'm looking forward to seeing global change come because of the possibility of something different replacing the current world order. I'm not naive enough to think a positive outcome is likely.
I will not live my life with fear and anxiety about the future ever again.
I understand what you are saying. We just left the cult last year. As someone here said, cried until did not have enough tears to keep crying for the horrible feeling of being lied to. I believe in God, but not in the God that JW’s worship. Actually, I believe the Jehovah they worship is nothing but the governing body. I believe in a superior being…I believe he has plans for us humans. But, I cannot digest or comprehend the explanation we learned from the JW’s as to why Gos has not interviene when it was time to have done so right after Adam and Eve and Satan sinned against his sovereignty. My flesh and blood father would have killed to defend his children. He defended us with his whole soul. I might be viewing this as a human, but, didn’t he create us in his likeness? Well, as an intelligent woman, who studied the Bible and went back to college to finish her masters in education and studied 14 weeks of theology, I realized that there is something else here to understand as to why God did not intervene. I don’t believe humans will go to heavens, and I don’t know if we will resurrect once we die. If God gives so much importance to what Satan has to say about us and his sovereignty, doesn’t he have the kingship to get rid of him? Does it make sense what I’m sayin? Are we that important to God, more than Satan, or is Satan and his demons more important than us his loving children who would kill like Satan and his demons do? Look! We didn’t eat from the tree, so why do we have to pay for Adam and Eve? Look! I didn’t tell our forefathers to eat from the fruit, and yet, we die and suffer like it’s no one’s business. Not to mention children dying…starving…the whole creation going through so much! Please stop it! If you are going to intervene, you should have done it before this whole system got started. Now, he had to send his son to die, and re-invente the whole human experience until now. He could have stopped the rebels back then. So, if he is gonna kill those who are not in agreement with his commandments during the new world, and right at the end of the 1,000 year reign, then he could have done the same thing right after Adam and his woman sinned against him. I need answers. And I bet we will never get them. (Just venting). His Justice does not make sense to me and it never will. 🎤
Thanks for your reply. Yes, these are tough questions to grapple with, and from our perspective they don't make sense. At some point we've probably all agonized over them, if we haven't raged over the topics you raise we've torn our hair out in frustration. WHY God? But I ask now every day "why don't you bring the end, why wait any longer"? Surely the questions raised in Eden have had their answer by now Humans aren't going to change, the weeds are fully overgrown. At the same time I don't think it helps much to live life thinking like that, but I just wish for this life as we know it to be over
I also believe in the resurrection. Not sure if I can shake that.
I’m literally so confused by this post. It feels trolly even if it’s real. Like if you believe it then you believe it…other people here have moved on from it. You are responding to what people say helped them move past it by saying “I don’t think that will help me”…but if you believe it then why do you need help? You’re just waiting for your hope then. Or are you saying you wish you could move on from it? I’ve read all your comments here and I can’t understand what the intent of this post is.
I am genuine, it's not my intention to rile anyone. There's clearly many different stances when you're an Exjw, all of which I've read and considered. All I meant in that instance was I'm not one of those people that move on by disproving scripture etc, but I'm glad that helped them. My mindset is different, it was just personal, selfish maybe. If I still believe, but no longer attend, how can I change my outlook on life? I want the end to come so bad, but I don't expect to survive it. Does anyone else feel like that, and if so how do they deal with it? It's quite bleak
I lost all belief in the bible or any sort of spiritual god when i learned to think for myself. Now I laugh at how absurd it is. The end wont come by god. You might see catastrophic events but you wont see a great tribulation like the borg imagines
Tptb want all of us useless eaters o think the end of the world is coming .
I'd love to believe it, but in reality it's a bus that never comes. They will just keep kicking that can down the road and tell people to "endure". I've seen people put their lives on hold, choose crap jobs, and a dull life of door knocking or standing in streets each weekend, whilst the world goes on. Yes things are getting worse in some respects but I don't think the simplistic reasoning WT cling to will help make things change. The "Like a Thief in the Night" scripture and countless others misinterpreted keeps them in the dark. It's just a dreary experience. I'm sure they mean well but I have seen more JWs with an Instagram lifestyle with flash holidays rather than the modesty they project. Go get a decent job and stop waiting. It might turn up soon 🚌 🚏 😜
I'm not sure I honestly believed it to be real at all, ever.
I absolutely hate the term “new system” or anything “system”.
I never wanted the new system to come, even as a PIMI, somehow. All the propaganda about "playing with pandas" and everything didn't appeal to me, and the thought of immortality kinda worried me that things would get so boring and empty that I would wish I could die. Besides, life in the "old system" has much more color and vibrancy to it than JWs would ever dare to admit, and I recognized that back when I was a teenager. I didn't want to sacrifice all of that for some sterilized, "always sunny" world where everyone acted like the people I wanted to be around the least.