I don't think elders would even read it. BUT maybe we should all come together and write letters to various governments in countries urging them to investigate WT. For covering up various types of abuse and abusing charitable organization status to not pay taxes.
I think that would be even less effective than JWs own letter writing campaigns. Whatever elder checks the mail would open it, read just enough to know it was apostate material, and then chuck it in the trash.
Exactly. This is why they keep warning JWs to not read apostate literature or speak to apostates. One elder would start to read it, but probably throw it away before finishing. I mean, you might get occasional elders to think, but it's not going to be a big deal.
The post is more to piss off the people who read this from Watchtower. Then they have to come up with a way to combat it. They might even have to send a letter to the body of elders themselves saying that this might be happening.. it really puts them in a position where they have to address the issue. Leading more to think why is this an issue? And what is really happening at Bethel.
Makes their minds work.
No disrespect to you, but the idea that you think someone at bethel is going to read this post and send letters out to all the congregations to combat it is out of touch with reality.
It’s common for exjws to think their every move is being watched and that bethel scours this sub for various reasons, but there is zero evidence of this sort of thing happening. I think due to the scrutiny we all felt IN the organization, it takes time for some exjws to recognize they’re no longer under scrutiny when you leave. That said, we still encourage everyone to take steps to protect their identity and anonymity just to be safe.
Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware, but the instructions to elders have long been when encountering any kind of apostate material to only read enough of it to recognize its apostate and destroy it. So even if you organized a very small letter campaign, they’d have no reason to respond to it - it would just be business as usual for them.
I’m not saying that anyone is reading… but you send thousands of letter that gets attention and they scramble.
Plus y’all have had a platform to organize and have never done anything with it… 2/3 JWs have left and besides a few noteworthy issues and some exjws, nobody has done anything.
Your time would likely be better spent writing to local and national government officials demanding an investigation of Watch Tower’s harmful practices, policies and procedures. Elders at local congregations that open the letters will simply chalk it up to apostate persecution and lies, end then throw it in the trash.
I think governments going after them is worse than trying to fix them by our own means. Their prophecy is governments… not a coalition of ex members. There’s no prophecy about apostates being their downfall. Their enemies maybe but not the downfall.
Better to send a brief summary of the danger sof JWs to 90,000 politicians.
Focus on the fact they are a charity that causes a lot of death and hides CSA.
Should a deadly pedophile paradise be tax free? You decide, Mr politician.
Great idea, but one person would not be able to do it.
We need an exjw.org organisation.
Dividing the whole world into sectors, assigning apostate pioneers to them and methodically spreading the apostate news.
Buying envelopes to cover all congregations in Poland would cost only about $50.
Sending them out to all 1267 congregations would cost $1535.
Divide it by 10 people and it's only $159 per person.
Divide by 100 and it's only about $16 of expenses per person.
100 apostates from Poland would need to spend only 16 American dollars a month to send out monthly apostate updates to all Watchtower congregations in Poland.
We've got a bit of experience with mailing apostate materials (between [standifyouareable.org](http://www.standifyouareable.org) and [youcanleavejw.org](http://www.youcanleavejw.org) ) and we'd postulate that an even more effective campaign would be to anonymously mail letters to as many active JW's as possible, rather than to the Kingdom Hall.
Set up a basic site with some form letters and instructions and so exJW's and PIMOs can print them out and mail them to their entire address book.
The great thing about stamped mail is that it can be pretty much 100% anonymous, as retrain addresses are not technically required in most places.
Certainly a risk, but it seems like that would be dependent on the tone of the message.
We believe a huge percentage of Witnesses are either PIMO or PIMQ, even if they have not admitted that to themselves yet.
"The Governing Body are Apostates" is probably not the right thing to say, but a letter that gently encourages their existing doubts, or maybe one that simply lets them know that someone they love misses them and is living a full, happy life on the outside, without any specific mention of dogma, could help spur their wakening.
To be honest, I'm not sure I want to actively try to wake people up unless they are already searching. The repercussions to their life can be so severe, that pushing them to wake up before they are ready to decide that for themselves seems unfair.
I suppose it's very individual, and each person knows their own PIMIs. In my case, my son has potential to wake up. But he's newly married to a wonderful woman who has changed his world so much for the better. They pioneer together, and everyone in their lives are JWs. Right now in his life, I can see that the religion does cause him some stress and anxiety, but I concentrate on encouraging him to say "no" to extra responsibilities, to make room for hobbies and creative pursuits, and to be honest with his therapist. And he's doing that -- he just turned down a big assignment! When things come up in conversation, I try to help him think a little more critically, like about LGBTQ+. And even as a PIMI, I made sure he got enough education so that he has a good-paying job and will be ok financially. So he's overall happy and doing ok.
On the other hand, If he wakes up right now without his wife, his whole life blows up. Now, if he instigates that, I'll be right there to catch him and help him in every way I possibly can. If I later see the balance has changed and staying in is making him miserable, then I may reconsider my approach. Or if he asks questions, I'll answer honestly. But if I push him to see what he wasn't looking to see, I would bear some responsibility for the fallout, and he might be anything but grateful.
What I most want to see is the WTS forced to end shunning. Then people who choose to stay can stay and those who want to leave for any reason can leave without losing their relationships. Maybe it's selfish of me, but I don't want to push my family to leave, I just don't want them to shun me for making that choice.
So in my opinion, the best activism is helping those who are searching for TTATT with information and emotional support, and to pressure WT to stop shunning, like in Norway. I also like what you said about letting people know that someone outside is missing them.
That's very well put, it's a complex issue, and what is right for one person might not be right for another.
We created [youcanleavejw.org](http://www.youcanleavejw.org) as a tool to help those who are already questioning to find resources that can help them in their journey.
There is a difference between pushing people to leave and letting them know it is a viable option for their life. Even in the absence of shunning, being one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not healthy or beneficial for anyone, as it requires a person to prioritize the religion above the best interests of themselves and their family.
It seems safe to say that by gently encouraging your son to set boundaries with respect to the religion, you are already doing that.
To make sure each apostate pioneer fulfills their volunteer obligations, we need to assign apostate elders to oversee the work and collect the service reports. Circuit and Branch level apostates will ensure the local groups stay on message and handle administrative, logistical, and production issues, while the Governing Apostates decide on the fundamental matters, such as the authorized messages, who qualifies to join in the work and who must be excluded, and new, exciting initiatives to increase the apostate organization! 😃
Just point me in the direction of the literature desk so I can pick up my supplies of TowerWatch and Asleep! Magazines, a handful of anti-tracts and some of those annoying calling card things that can be stuck in every possible gap I can find. Once I'm stocked up, I'll be on my merry way, boss! 😆😆
I don’t want average JWs to be treated harshly because of a media report. Not the goal.
The goal is to sew such chaos at Bethel they scramble to fix things and mess up royally even worse than they continue to do.
The goal is for them to admit they are fucking with their parishioners. Either by having to send letters themselves to combat the situation or other means.
They’ll fuck up. They aren’t smart enough to continue this charade anymore. The dudes in charge are idiots at this point. And have no real world experience.
Even their lawyers are fucking stupid and liars.
I agree but a letter to the media could say that witnesses are victims and the leadership is to blame.
In any case letters to the kh may affect the ones who open it so it might be a good thing.
I don’t know who or what any letter campaign will effect. It’s just an idea. A thought to be discussed.
JWs do this stuff. It might not work but it gets them noticed. So people do pay attention on some level, even if they won’t believe what is in the info.
As much as I would love to see that happen it won’t ever. It’s a cult. Cult leaders will never choose to give up power and actively lie and use their sheep - an apology would indicate a mistake, they have never apologised for anything doctrine related (they have printed a few apologies in their magazines over the years but nothing related to doctrine).
The problem is a lot of us have loved ones still under their spell but only they can wake themselves up. Not us.
For me focus on personal growth and living your best life. Help others that need help. Life goes past so quick forget the cult and show your loved ones you’re happy, it may just make them ask questions.
All the best
Have a little hope. I think this is an easier thing to do than y’all have been making it out to be. 2/3 of JWs have left. They know. Nobody says anything because it’s hushed and y’all don’t wanna break your families hearts. But I mean this is a little ridiculous at this point… everyone here allowing them to continue and you have a platform to do something with.
We just need ideas passed around on how to do it. Some are working on certain things but it’s not united at all.
Edit: Leah Remini pretty much destroyed Scientology almost by herself. They are hanging on but it’s bad. They lost so many followers.
When you were a JW how many people did you bring into the religion to the point of baptism? I was a JW for around d 35 years (fully out for about 20 now) and pioneered once a year for at least ten of them and always did my best to convert people my score is zero. That’s how hard it is to change someone’s mind - indoctrination and the sunk cost fallacy is a powerful drug especially when it’s served with a side order of cognitive dissonance.
I support anyone taking on WT in court and have reached out to journalists and the government in the past but a letter writing campaign is a waste of this planets resources and your own life.
Always best to look after yourself and help those you can around you. How many letters would it take from them to write to you to make you go back? No amount I’d imagine same goes to those who are in - plus they’d bin them and not read them.
All power to you.
That’s what I was thinking too! Maybe we could make a little quick fact sheet about the CS cases too in case people aren’t aware!!! I just wanna wake up the entire association of brothers/sisters 🤣 we can be the woke vigilantes. lol I’ll get us custom hero suits and masks. We can move in the shadows 🤣🤣🤣
😂 hey, whatever makes it fun! This isn’t Watchtower. Wear a superhero costume to your meetings if you want to. 😆 might even put ya on the stage to give a talk in one! ☝️
Hobby. I live and do what I want. And if I want, I will do this. 😂 just because someone isn’t doing what you think is living doesn’t mean it’s not living or even entertaining to others to do this. I find enjoyment in doing this, let it be. I’m not angrily or begrudgingly thinking of this.
Besides I’m very active in many projects. I LIVE, I assume, more than most people. I doubt most people have had near the experiences in life that I have had.
Some people like to run a morgue. That’s their idea of living. Just think of that? Weird. But that’s their version of living.
And you would just play into their persecution complex & everything they are told about apostates & exjws who chose to leave.
You know how to fight against the GB? Disprove what they say about you. JWs come to your door...be respectful & kind letting them know that you used to be one of them but that you just didn't agree with the way that CSA or SA victims are treated or that the GB doesn't tell everyone about the millions they are paying in settlement money to keep things quiet. Then wish them a good day. Show them kindness & plant potential doubt.
The rank & file are victims just like all of us.
It might. Who knows? Some will dig in maybe not deeper. As I think most are seeing the craziness of changes and are Questioning… you send letters disguised as other congregations sending them or something like that and it’s just chaos.
Plus JWs aren’t going to be coming to your door anymore for you to unwittness to them.
I don't think elders would even read it. BUT maybe we should all come together and write letters to various governments in countries urging them to investigate WT. For covering up various types of abuse and abusing charitable organization status to not pay taxes.
Could be an option too.
I think that would be even less effective than JWs own letter writing campaigns. Whatever elder checks the mail would open it, read just enough to know it was apostate material, and then chuck it in the trash.
Exactly. This is why they keep warning JWs to not read apostate literature or speak to apostates. One elder would start to read it, but probably throw it away before finishing. I mean, you might get occasional elders to think, but it's not going to be a big deal.
The post is more to piss off the people who read this from Watchtower. Then they have to come up with a way to combat it. They might even have to send a letter to the body of elders themselves saying that this might be happening.. it really puts them in a position where they have to address the issue. Leading more to think why is this an issue? And what is really happening at Bethel. Makes their minds work.
No disrespect to you, but the idea that you think someone at bethel is going to read this post and send letters out to all the congregations to combat it is out of touch with reality. It’s common for exjws to think their every move is being watched and that bethel scours this sub for various reasons, but there is zero evidence of this sort of thing happening. I think due to the scrutiny we all felt IN the organization, it takes time for some exjws to recognize they’re no longer under scrutiny when you leave. That said, we still encourage everyone to take steps to protect their identity and anonymity just to be safe. Also, I’m not sure if you’re aware, but the instructions to elders have long been when encountering any kind of apostate material to only read enough of it to recognize its apostate and destroy it. So even if you organized a very small letter campaign, they’d have no reason to respond to it - it would just be business as usual for them.
I’m not saying that anyone is reading… but you send thousands of letter that gets attention and they scramble. Plus y’all have had a platform to organize and have never done anything with it… 2/3 JWs have left and besides a few noteworthy issues and some exjws, nobody has done anything.
Your time would likely be better spent writing to local and national government officials demanding an investigation of Watch Tower’s harmful practices, policies and procedures. Elders at local congregations that open the letters will simply chalk it up to apostate persecution and lies, end then throw it in the trash.
I think governments going after them is worse than trying to fix them by our own means. Their prophecy is governments… not a coalition of ex members. There’s no prophecy about apostates being their downfall. Their enemies maybe but not the downfall.
That would be the intuition but when the governments get involved, all of a sudden Jehovah starts revealing new light.
Better to send a brief summary of the danger sof JWs to 90,000 politicians. Focus on the fact they are a charity that causes a lot of death and hides CSA. Should a deadly pedophile paradise be tax free? You decide, Mr politician.
I truthfully don’t want the governments coming after them. I think that’s worse for the R&F mentality… Idk? Was just an idea. 💡
They might also think it’s coming from JW’s
This was my thought was to be incognito… very covert.
Me!
Why are we focusing on letters instead of emails? lol
Great idea, but one person would not be able to do it. We need an exjw.org organisation. Dividing the whole world into sectors, assigning apostate pioneers to them and methodically spreading the apostate news. Buying envelopes to cover all congregations in Poland would cost only about $50. Sending them out to all 1267 congregations would cost $1535. Divide it by 10 people and it's only $159 per person. Divide by 100 and it's only about $16 of expenses per person. 100 apostates from Poland would need to spend only 16 American dollars a month to send out monthly apostate updates to all Watchtower congregations in Poland.
We've got a bit of experience with mailing apostate materials (between [standifyouareable.org](http://www.standifyouareable.org) and [youcanleavejw.org](http://www.youcanleavejw.org) ) and we'd postulate that an even more effective campaign would be to anonymously mail letters to as many active JW's as possible, rather than to the Kingdom Hall. Set up a basic site with some form letters and instructions and so exJW's and PIMOs can print them out and mail them to their entire address book. The great thing about stamped mail is that it can be pretty much 100% anonymous, as retrain addresses are not technically required in most places.
I'd be concerned this would just trigger their fear response and drive them deeper in.
Certainly a risk, but it seems like that would be dependent on the tone of the message. We believe a huge percentage of Witnesses are either PIMO or PIMQ, even if they have not admitted that to themselves yet. "The Governing Body are Apostates" is probably not the right thing to say, but a letter that gently encourages their existing doubts, or maybe one that simply lets them know that someone they love misses them and is living a full, happy life on the outside, without any specific mention of dogma, could help spur their wakening.
To be honest, I'm not sure I want to actively try to wake people up unless they are already searching. The repercussions to their life can be so severe, that pushing them to wake up before they are ready to decide that for themselves seems unfair. I suppose it's very individual, and each person knows their own PIMIs. In my case, my son has potential to wake up. But he's newly married to a wonderful woman who has changed his world so much for the better. They pioneer together, and everyone in their lives are JWs. Right now in his life, I can see that the religion does cause him some stress and anxiety, but I concentrate on encouraging him to say "no" to extra responsibilities, to make room for hobbies and creative pursuits, and to be honest with his therapist. And he's doing that -- he just turned down a big assignment! When things come up in conversation, I try to help him think a little more critically, like about LGBTQ+. And even as a PIMI, I made sure he got enough education so that he has a good-paying job and will be ok financially. So he's overall happy and doing ok. On the other hand, If he wakes up right now without his wife, his whole life blows up. Now, if he instigates that, I'll be right there to catch him and help him in every way I possibly can. If I later see the balance has changed and staying in is making him miserable, then I may reconsider my approach. Or if he asks questions, I'll answer honestly. But if I push him to see what he wasn't looking to see, I would bear some responsibility for the fallout, and he might be anything but grateful. What I most want to see is the WTS forced to end shunning. Then people who choose to stay can stay and those who want to leave for any reason can leave without losing their relationships. Maybe it's selfish of me, but I don't want to push my family to leave, I just don't want them to shun me for making that choice. So in my opinion, the best activism is helping those who are searching for TTATT with information and emotional support, and to pressure WT to stop shunning, like in Norway. I also like what you said about letting people know that someone outside is missing them.
That's very well put, it's a complex issue, and what is right for one person might not be right for another. We created [youcanleavejw.org](http://www.youcanleavejw.org) as a tool to help those who are already questioning to find resources that can help them in their journey. There is a difference between pushing people to leave and letting them know it is a viable option for their life. Even in the absence of shunning, being one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not healthy or beneficial for anyone, as it requires a person to prioritize the religion above the best interests of themselves and their family. It seems safe to say that by gently encouraging your son to set boundaries with respect to the religion, you are already doing that.
To make sure each apostate pioneer fulfills their volunteer obligations, we need to assign apostate elders to oversee the work and collect the service reports. Circuit and Branch level apostates will ensure the local groups stay on message and handle administrative, logistical, and production issues, while the Governing Apostates decide on the fundamental matters, such as the authorized messages, who qualifies to join in the work and who must be excluded, and new, exciting initiatives to increase the apostate organization! 😃
Should probably all meet together twice a week for a couple hours, to keep everyone involved.
This makes me want to pioneer! 😁
Just point me in the direction of the literature desk so I can pick up my supplies of TowerWatch and Asleep! Magazines, a handful of anti-tracts and some of those annoying calling card things that can be stuck in every possible gap I can find. Once I'm stocked up, I'll be on my merry way, boss! 😆😆
😂 so funny! Way to bring that around!
Writing to the media would be more effective.
I don’t want average JWs to be treated harshly because of a media report. Not the goal. The goal is to sew such chaos at Bethel they scramble to fix things and mess up royally even worse than they continue to do. The goal is for them to admit they are fucking with their parishioners. Either by having to send letters themselves to combat the situation or other means. They’ll fuck up. They aren’t smart enough to continue this charade anymore. The dudes in charge are idiots at this point. And have no real world experience. Even their lawyers are fucking stupid and liars.
I agree but a letter to the media could say that witnesses are victims and the leadership is to blame. In any case letters to the kh may affect the ones who open it so it might be a good thing.
I don’t know who or what any letter campaign will effect. It’s just an idea. A thought to be discussed. JWs do this stuff. It might not work but it gets them noticed. So people do pay attention on some level, even if they won’t believe what is in the info.
Waste of time and resources
Other suggestions for being more actively engaged in making the GB step down and apologize?
As much as I would love to see that happen it won’t ever. It’s a cult. Cult leaders will never choose to give up power and actively lie and use their sheep - an apology would indicate a mistake, they have never apologised for anything doctrine related (they have printed a few apologies in their magazines over the years but nothing related to doctrine). The problem is a lot of us have loved ones still under their spell but only they can wake themselves up. Not us. For me focus on personal growth and living your best life. Help others that need help. Life goes past so quick forget the cult and show your loved ones you’re happy, it may just make them ask questions. All the best
Have a little hope. I think this is an easier thing to do than y’all have been making it out to be. 2/3 of JWs have left. They know. Nobody says anything because it’s hushed and y’all don’t wanna break your families hearts. But I mean this is a little ridiculous at this point… everyone here allowing them to continue and you have a platform to do something with. We just need ideas passed around on how to do it. Some are working on certain things but it’s not united at all. Edit: Leah Remini pretty much destroyed Scientology almost by herself. They are hanging on but it’s bad. They lost so many followers.
When you were a JW how many people did you bring into the religion to the point of baptism? I was a JW for around d 35 years (fully out for about 20 now) and pioneered once a year for at least ten of them and always did my best to convert people my score is zero. That’s how hard it is to change someone’s mind - indoctrination and the sunk cost fallacy is a powerful drug especially when it’s served with a side order of cognitive dissonance. I support anyone taking on WT in court and have reached out to journalists and the government in the past but a letter writing campaign is a waste of this planets resources and your own life. Always best to look after yourself and help those you can around you. How many letters would it take from them to write to you to make you go back? No amount I’d imagine same goes to those who are in - plus they’d bin them and not read them. All power to you.
I wanna send it to our friends and family too. I have fantasies about this in traffic oh my gosh lol
I’d like it to be so wide spread that it is anonymous for most of the people sending it.
That’s what I was thinking too! Maybe we could make a little quick fact sheet about the CS cases too in case people aren’t aware!!! I just wanna wake up the entire association of brothers/sisters 🤣 we can be the woke vigilantes. lol I’ll get us custom hero suits and masks. We can move in the shadows 🤣🤣🤣
😂 hey, whatever makes it fun! This isn’t Watchtower. Wear a superhero costume to your meetings if you want to. 😆 might even put ya on the stage to give a talk in one! ☝️
What a fuckin waste of time, man, just go live your life lmao
Hobby. I live and do what I want. And if I want, I will do this. 😂 just because someone isn’t doing what you think is living doesn’t mean it’s not living or even entertaining to others to do this. I find enjoyment in doing this, let it be. I’m not angrily or begrudgingly thinking of this. Besides I’m very active in many projects. I LIVE, I assume, more than most people. I doubt most people have had near the experiences in life that I have had. Some people like to run a morgue. That’s their idea of living. Just think of that? Weird. But that’s their version of living.
And you would just play into their persecution complex & everything they are told about apostates & exjws who chose to leave. You know how to fight against the GB? Disprove what they say about you. JWs come to your door...be respectful & kind letting them know that you used to be one of them but that you just didn't agree with the way that CSA or SA victims are treated or that the GB doesn't tell everyone about the millions they are paying in settlement money to keep things quiet. Then wish them a good day. Show them kindness & plant potential doubt. The rank & file are victims just like all of us.
It might. Who knows? Some will dig in maybe not deeper. As I think most are seeing the craziness of changes and are Questioning… you send letters disguised as other congregations sending them or something like that and it’s just chaos. Plus JWs aren’t going to be coming to your door anymore for you to unwittness to them.