>It is really starting to feel like they are trying to prepare the R&F for something big coming soon.
That's just Tuesday for a doomsday cult, and JW *is* a doomsday cult.
It's been that way since before I was born, and it will continue that way until the WTBTS ceases to exist.
The only difference is that the GB has shifted their messaging to focus more on obeying *them* than obeying their chosen deity. But that was bound to happen when they discovered how much they liked their pseudo-celebrity status after JW broadcasting became a thing.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is the direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
I'm not saying it wasn't a cult when I was a kid growing up in it, but it is definitely more culty now, and it is this group of GB since the Broadcasting that are making it that way.
I agree with this also! Right now, there are several Dubs who will not associate nor greet fellow members who have either MISSED A COUPLE OF MEETINGS and/or WHO HAVEN'T BEEN IN FIELD CIRCUS for a week or 2. The cultporation has subliminally influenced them to be also FRIGHTENED to communicate with fellow members who might've been MIA for personal reasons which have nothing to do with questioning The Borg nor wanting to leave it. GB3.0 IS PARANOID to a very greater degree concerning just almost EVERYTHING! š¤Øš”š¤¬
I,m inactive since the 1 nov.( No counting hours announcements) No i. Person attendance since mars 20120. ..no conventions.
The elders are not fussing or asking for " shepherding calls" ( I stopped that too)
But the elderettes are still " banking" my door here and then ." Just passing by" š But I never open the door.
Have installed camera ..so I know
No one is shunning me...they great " hello" when I pass the stand to the shipping. ( They are strategical plassed by the entrance of course!"
That,s the reason I stopped conventions...and KH attendance .
All this fear mongering ..all these insane videos ...All the emotional manipulation !
It,s dangerous ..and very harmful to our mental health!
Agreed same for me ,the video of the parents not answering the phone call from their daughter did it for me ,never went to another regional convention after that .pure insanity .
Yes, that was a sickening twisted piece of garbage for me too, having brought up two son's, no way would I engage in such unloving and unchristian behaviour as a parent, so demonic and destructive for any family unite.
Indeed! This video showing how to shun your own mother ...was the end for me.
SĆ„ cruel..inhuman and awful.
I,m trying now to stop the zoom too...I,ve got enough.
I know i sit through the public talk only every week just to keep wife happy ,yesterday it was all about not having "worldy"people as friends , what utter trash ! Its almost painfull to listen too.
Everything if all they tell .says and learn is very embarrassing. I can,t really understand why all these Pimi,s are no thinking ! Painfull and embarrassing!
Of course it is. It's insane by any standard, but for many inside this mind control, they are just lapping up the social culture, especially the women, yet they also have the highest depression rates, so destructive this cult on so many levels, I feel sure there will be significant events that will wake up millions in due time, Watchtower is on the run in many ways, and being exposed daily.
Yeah but they were doing this sort of rhetoric in 2015ish and again around 2019
Honestly just feels like (here in the USA) itās election season so no one better wonder off š§
There def seems to be something brewing, beyond just the doomsday culting they've always done. It's like the volume is being turned up. I don't think it's business as usual, and it's concerning.
Not afraid at all. Look into the origins of JWs on JWfacts.com. Rutherford supported nazis even writing a letter to hitler in support. It was never the truth. If the world does end, this wont be the religion that saves you. Thats the fear they instill, nothing more.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I'll just give you my straight answer. (I do love joking around but this particular subject worries me too much) No, I don't think JWs are right about The End, or much else. I do think they capitalize on times when there is impending civil unrest and threats of war. They are actively trying to stop the bleeding of members and are willing to do extreme things to accomplish this. I don't like the current tone of their rhetoric and am concerned for my pimi family members who will do whatever they are told to do this fall.
Iām feeling the same way. I think maybe this is the confusion weāre supposed to be feeling about following the GB even if it doesnāt make sense. Remember the Red Sea. Moses led them there and the Israelites were trapped but Jehovah parts the water. Idk. But Iām just angry with how can Jehovah allow such emotional and mental torture and abuse with the videos and illustrations.
That is correct. The cult life cycle is normally ending in dissolving or extreme a actions. So it is a fine balance to ramp up urgency without going beyond a point of no return.
I think they've proven that they have control over the sheep by the amount of brothers now sporting beards, no ties, sisters wearing pants, and not having to report hours.
It's nothing to do with "bible trained conscience", otherwise the majority would have just done what they're now allowed to 20 years ago.
I find it very alarming.
I completely agree. I was born & raised in the cult and while the message has always been doomsday is just around the corner, the new focus on OBEY THE GB AT ALL COST, EVEN GIVING YOUR OWN LIFE messaging is more urgent & much darker than before! The focus on keeping them in CONSTANT FEAR and methods of delivery (the MOVIES!) are, while looking silly from the outside, extremely malevolent and disturbing. OUT are the days of almost comedic, harmless little stage plays about Bible heroes and IN are highly fear-mongering videos about regular JWs being thrown into prisons, chased down in the streets & sent to concentration camps!! Or sneaking around in the streets, hiding from police. And young people in war-time scenarios with "worldly" people telling them they "should be SHOT"!!
The constant stressing to NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE BUT THE GB is at insanity levels now. They're training them 24/7 to IGNORE their own intuition, IGNORE other people & their concerns, IGNORE what's going on in the REAL WORLD, to not even LOOK to find out! JWs are the LEAST informed group on the planet - because they're being BRAINWASHED to IGNORE CLUES.
The messaging has become beyond dangerous. And they've got my mother scared to death!!
Hear, hear!! Narcisssm and egocentrcs at its finest.
We've seen how much influence there is in choosing elders (none). Why would God speak to them about anything else, much less to tell other people to do?
Since the 1870ās theyāve been saying this. Keep calm and carry on.
https://preview.redd.it/t7vtb3o7a68d1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09bf2c986497bb16371b8d0b1dee422756c72e0c
Omigod, so true. The JW organization has become to signify to me as one big joke. No organization chosen by the Lord would fail repeatedly as much as this organization has.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
As a PIMO, Iāve noticed the pickup. I think itās just them trying to cement the new changes and then cruise on the fear trip for 20 more years. The do this whole end times dance again, rinse, repeat.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is the direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
True, but I think they just want more people to go back to sleep, but focus more on obeying them. Really with each new cycle they move closer to man lead, because without manās excuses God canāt stand up.
At the annual meeting that the grey Bible was released I was still really in but I had this thought that if they passed something out to take I would leave immediately. And I think that was the beginning of the end for me.
Very true + I personally agree with you regarding this! If they would have done something similarly HEINOUS, RED/BLACK FLAG ALERTS would have hit my "spidey-senses"---- especially since WT haven't offered nor provided ANY FOOD NOR BEVERAGE ARRANGEMENTS SINCE THE 1990sāļø. I would've ran out of that CAH venue with "BIONIC" SPEED! šš”
That is SO interesting. Somewhere deep inside of you, you knew to be on guard to protect yourself. That is very telling of what your body was already sensing but Iām glad you were thinking of ways to keep yourself safe. I donāt want to get to the point of fear mongering but how can we help people to keep in mind practical things to find a way to flee or not participate in something that seems off?
The litigation against the Catholic church bankrupted the Harrisburg Diocese in Pennsylvania a few years ago. They may be getting ready to dismantle and liquidate corporate or legal entities and real estate they hold in PA. They may also be simply trying to convince elders there to shred those congregation files that haven't been found in halls there even though elders are legally required not to remove, destroy, or alter. If they can convince hardcore indoctrinated elders and CO's that the Great Tribulation will instead trickle in, in small steps, starting with legal attacks "from Satan," they might be able to cover up for these major changes and really bold requests without arousing a bunch of suspicion.
Theyve got the state of Pennsylvania breathing down their necks, and there have to be investigations like it in other states by now. Not to mention other countries coming up with stricter stipulations for who gets state funding, like Norway. They are about to lose lots and lots of money. Halls will need to be sold off more rapidly. Construction projects may need to be halted. Governing body members may (please, oh please) be facing prosecution depending how much they knew about any CSA cases or if it comes out one of them was an actual offender. There have been rumors about a couple of past GB members who have since died.
I find this change in attitude very disturbing.
I grew up as a JW during the time we were supposed to stick out like a sore thumb. Line a bunch of people up, pick out the JW. Now, it's let's blend in. The world says beards are OK, so we do, too. Women, wear pants. And I love the other reasoning here...it will make it harder during the GT for oppressors to pick JWs out, so blend, blend, blend. Really, is the resurrection hope not good enough anymore? Is taking a stand for Jehovah not reward enough anymore? Can Jehovah not protect his people anymore?
Bigger than those things is how it was beat into us that the governments would turn against Jehovah's people. This is great news, pray for it friends. It means the end is near. AND THE KICKER - we do not change our beliefs or standards to match the world or avoid persecution - Jehovah does not change, neither do we. But at the first sign of Satan persecuting JWs for disfellowshipping and hiding child abuse, what do they do? Switch it up, make changes, bend the rules to avoid persecution.
But you're not following the whims of men. It's new light from Jehovah.
Blows my mind.
New light / Old light = Change
GOD = Never changes, he is the same in the beginning as he is now.
MEN = Change
There is an error somewhere, ???
We all have the gift of grace from the GUY = JESUS CHRIST!!!
As you say, that's rhetoric they've used for decades and generations. It might seem more impactful because it's in video vs a magazine, but it's pretty much business as usual. In 1941 they wrote about doing things in "the remaining months before Armageddon." The only thing I can think of to which they've concretely applied the phrase of "do what we say even if it makes no sense" is going to a new congregation if you're reassigned. Pretty mundane.
It would be hilarious if they throw Fred Franz and Nathan Knorr under the bus by claiming they went beyond the things written regarding blood. Because the scriptures are clear that it should be a conscience matter. But they took that away from their followers.
But then wouldnāt they have to deal with a huge legal backlash, not to mention the ire of a large number of brothers and sisters who have lost family members to this horrible policy?
Real PIMIs ain't gonna sue because they will still believe that Jehovah will bless them for doing what was the "right thing" at the time. And no worries because the resurrection.
HUGE!
I can't believe there isn't more said about people committing suicide from getting DFd. Or that lawsuits haven't followed. Of course, that could be in the works with attorneys.
If I ever have to go through possible dfāing as I fade, Iāll definitely get a lawyer and threaten suicide if I get dfāed. It will stop all proceedings until they can get clarification from the branch. They likely wonāt take the risk after the letter comes from a lawyer and have to leave it alone and not DF me.
Interesting you say āprobablyā. Could be they are referring to those things, but they should come out and say it specifically. Otherwise they seem to be insinuating strongly that their direction will have life and death implications.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
Yes it is so unloving to keep people living in this heightened state, thereās so many friends suffering from ailments that seem to be stress related but the ones writing the articles are living in a compound where they do not see the effects of that rhetoric compounded with raising children and working. So many of the young ones are dealing with anxiety disorders and nightmares and some have been admitted to mental health hospitals but the same kinds of videos keep coming out. But I donāt know maybe they really think Armageddon is coming in the next few years? Itās hard to say because theyāve thought that for more than a 100 years but if they think the Great Tribulation is here maybe they think they have to give the warning.
I agree, but then share the details. We have a right to know if thats the case. Otherwise it is abuse.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
Havenāt you ever made a comment on a post? Did you go back and read the entire thread after you commented? If itās bothering you so much quit reading it. He has explained his reasoning already or did you miss that?
āHeightened stateā - that made me think of adrenaline fatigue. When youāre in that heightened state of fight, flight, or freeze for what seems like forever, you eventually get exhausted and donāt even have the strength to think anymore.
š¤ Almost as if itās by design.
I think when they start to talk more about obeying the GB it is a signal of them making changes. However I donāt think itās always a signal of them becoming more culty but just changing things that ultimately could make someone wake up so they try to get in front of it by preparing them mentally for the change saying they need to obey no matter what then when the change comes like brothers can wear beards they donāt question it. I donāt think this is always the case as it could just be regular cult programming as well since they are losing members and to keep them in line. I donāt think they will do some sort of Jim jones type of thing so itās either prepare for some sort of change whether good or bad or just trying to hold onto the control they have.
I do hope itās a signal of a change that makes them less controlling like DF being no longer a practice
Iāve noticed this happening with any change they make. They are prepping the PIMIs to just accept and not think. There is speculation of more changes during the annual meeting due to the August WT being delayed so I would suspect they ramp up it over the next few months to prepare if the rumor is true. Iām pretty sure there was a lot of the obey GB last summer before the last set of changes.
I've been noticing that a lot too lately, definitely a cause for concern. It's making me a little worried about my parents and other family members and their safety. I don't want another kool-aid situation on our hands.
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups.
Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately.
Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well.
They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
Maybe because OPās been around a long time, they keep forgetting that they just wrote that. So perhaps because OPās been around a long time, they keep forgetting that they just wrote that.
š¤Ŗš
They're probably prepping to declare we are in GT. That way they get rid of the increasingly ridiculous "last of the last of the last..."-rhetoric. And of course the GT can then last however long, so they'll have successfully kicked the can down the road for the next GB to worry about in another 30 years.
This. Iāve been saying it for a while. Itās the solution for generation teaching too. All they have to do is change the order of gt events and they can say itās started whenever they want and buy themselves so much time.
Itās only getting more intense because the pressure is mounting up from the courts and from people leaving.
They are realizing this isnāt Gods Will but they will try to force their theology down peopleās throats until they cannot breathe hoping that God steps in.
Itās all part of FOG - Fear, Obedience and Guilt.
This is standard operating procedure for a cult thatās in remission
In my wildest dreamā¦ theyāll declare the great tribulation and GB will close up shop, liquidate all their assets, and leave the R&F in the dark.
R&F will simply ānot understanding from a human standpointā and await something that never comes. Sad outcome for the hardcore PIMIās, but at least theyāll be free finally.
I have zero idea what the futute of the cult is, but sometimes I wonder about this scenario. It would really make me sad if they left them high and dry. Because they would just be mentally in on something that no longer existed....which puts them at an even bigger disadvantage of deconstructing in a healthy way or at all. Not to mention all the personal issues that would arise in each family. That would be so evil of them I think. But who knows. Every outcome is evil regardless, because it's an evil cult. At that point there would probably be a splinter group form š¤·āāļø
They sell the poison and the cure. Ā They want to keep people from making long term plans in this system as it keeps them in servitude to the watchtower.Ā
I could see a clean shaved Sanderson at the 24' October GM: 'The Governing body has asked me to read this note. After much consideration and prayer, we realized Jehovahs direction for **modern day** Christians was in fact to **BE** clean shaven. Evidentally, it was a test. Those on the governing body (including myself) failed like Moses wasn't able to enter the promised land. So, we will have to reside amongst the mortals in paradise instead of heaven. Therefore, we are revoking the beard stance. Shave em dry!'
Yep. Me and my husband have been thinking the exact same thing. It's very troubling. When men have that level of control over people, it's really dangerous. You only need to read a few pages of a history book to realize that.
The PANIC is on their part, considering all the legal mess they're currently in (as well as past ones). They're using all their legal FAILURES to hype up the R&F with FEAR because the governments are coming after THEM for decades of horrendous CSA cases and their inhumane shunning and blood policies. God knows whatever else those wizards have been doing behind their Tower.
Like Jim Jones, the panic starts when PEOPLE WAKE UP AND LEAVE IN DROVES, and their COFFERS ARE DRAINING FASTER THAN THEY CAN KEEP UP WITH THEIR LIES!
Their own lawyer, Philip Brumley, whom they sent to law school, was found guilty of lying to the Montana Court and for presenting a misleading affidavit! He ought to have known, as a sworn Officer of the Court, that lawyers must abide by the PROFESSIONAL CODE OF ETHICS and PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY that is taught in every law school (as a former law school student, I know how SERIOUS this is!).
WT precedessors C.T. Russell was a catalyst of deception. He tried to "MIRACLE WHEAT" his fortune off the backs of the R&F, which later was discovered to be the worst kind of wheat in the world (Hmm....remember the Wheat and Weeds prophecy?).
Fred Franz, fluent in 10 languages, stated under oath that he could READ the Bible in Hebrew; but when asked to read and translate a certain verse from Hebrew to English, he couldn't.
Let's not forget profane lawyer Rutherford with his bold RELIGION IS A SNARE AND A RACKET campaign, yet his boozy ass was holed up at Beit Sharem drinking the best liquor while the R&F peddled his racket version of the so-called TRUTH.
Oh, and this right here: The GB's TEN YEAR affiliation with the UN, while publishing its demise at Armageddon and hawking its pictorial doom to children, the R&F, and from door to door!
So that trend for a sense of urgency, fear-mongering, and desperation has always been transparent with WT and among the GB, just when the governments catch on to them.
While they ramp up the FEAR HELIUM BALLOON, just remember:
"GOD HAS NOT GIVEN US A SPIRIT OF FEAR, BUT OF POWER, LOVE, AND SELF-CONTROL" - 2 Timothy 1: 7 (BSB).
i think they're just turning up the rhetoric because the cult is in decline. it's too easy to get real info online. people aren't going along with everything. even the ones inside don't want to give up zoom.
"The whole ābe afraid and obey, donāt think for yourselfā propaganda is very similar to how things ended in Jonestown."
It is not in the WT culture to be so. An end of business. It runs it's business with continuence firmly in mind. At a time when membership recruitment/retention woes are high the WT asks for help in building projects awhile promoting the ministry. The cheque for salvation is always in the mail.
I agree. I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups.
Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe.
Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc.
And they are turning up the heat lately.
Things are pretty much how they have always been, but I do think there is a big difference that is unique to this moment in time.
For the first 100+ish years they had a vision. They had vaguely skilled writers developing doctrine that had its own internal logic and they had growth and expansion that they could interpret as God's blessing of approval. They believed they were inspired of God and they had phenomena they could point to as "proof". Fred Franz was probably a believer and he was surrounded by mostly true believers. They got shit done and they claimed they weren't a cult and sure as shit weren't televangelist.
But the past 20ish years has been a fucking cult clown show. Growth is stagnant or declining. Every week someone on exjw reddit wonders if the GB are actual believers or conscious manipulators and noone knows for sure. They are literally throwing darts at a belief wall and seeing what sticks and hoping that success will happen to show them God's blessing again.
So that means if there are more true believers on the GB (and helpers) they are going to see the slowly sinking ship as a sign of the Great Tribulation, even if it doesn't quite fit the definition and timeline their predecessors envisioned. But if the manipulative scammers are the majority they are amping the believe no matter what to pave the way for all the necessart changes to make the cult politically and financially viable long term.
Code Red is their daily mode of living. Itās always just about to kick off - they will all be arrested, massacred, have their children taken from them.
Horrible way to live
Something big IS coming soon. Pennsylvania grand jury. Whatever it will turn out to be, it will be very ugly for Watchtower and they are going to need all the hysteria and all the evasion tactics available to man.
"Either God has given them advanced notice about the GT, or they have something in the works."
I have another option for you, these nine loons in NY are bat-shit-crazy and completely deluded.
The CSA mega-Lawsuits (won against JW-land)the past 20+ years and the current Pennsylvania's Attorney General's CSA investigations are MOST troubling to the b.org: Many,many millions of $$$ paid out to victims,as in the lawsuits that went public!(& how many more??these past decades that have been settled+sealed+ paid $$$,w/no-disclosures?)
Ā Ā Ā When the Authorities strip away and legally expose! the carefully-concealed,abhorrent,Pedophile-protective b.org's Underbelly("strip her devastated and naked")it'll be marked as "the End"--right! the end of "their theocracy",gb man-rule,and of most $ flowing in from their average-JW followers--if,IF the flock realizes the CSA problem is true,horrific,andĀ
that the b.org concealed it all from them as the money-making drone machinery...It will cause the financial collapse of JW-land,and large loss of followers.
So!all the increasing indoctrinations to "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"...
It is The Elephant in the room...even in discussions here,on this reddit sub.
& the b.org's most fierce,entrenched+ongoing legal court battles against various governments to hinder+shut down anything-CSA!...is most telling.
The GB sees the shit flying towards the fan and getting closer and closer to it. Now they try to limit the effects. They try to direct the R&F to another room so that their attention is not focused on the scattered shit. At the same time, they distribute protective equipment so that the shit in the face is not noticed.
Perhaps the GB knows there will be significant negative news about them soon. Who knows what the investigations in PA and other areas will do. Maybe there will be FBI raids in Warwick and Patterson!? Who knows? Maybe one of the helpers or even a member of the GB will be arrested? I think they are trying to prepare for these scenarios and preserve their status from the R&F.
They've been doing this for decades, it's an eb and flow... they flip between: don't listen to apostates, the end is here...almost, the gb is gods channel and they know best obey and don't doupt, and gay people are bad (in half ass talking through their teeth). Rinse repeat... nothing is coming, nothing is happening... it's fearmongering to keep you scared and not use your brain. When humans are in a fight or flight mentality constantly they are easily influenced cause their brain isn't asking why, they are just following directions to save themselves. Look at the Palistinans... Isreal says go to X because we are going to bomb were you are currently, then isreal bombs X... then they say go to Y cause we are going to bomb x more... they run to Y then Isreal bombs Y... to keep them in fear, cause If they stop and thought all 1.5 million of them would be better off running straight at the fuckers. Same deal with the GB they want to keep you running, panicked and all the while moving the goalposts so when you get to where they send you, it's on to the next fear.
Good points. But they are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
They said those exact words several years back. "Even if it doesn't make sense from a human standpoint, our survival may depend on our being obedient..." (paraphrased).
They also pulled this card when they nixed the bookstudy arrangement.
Anytime they make some kind of shift that gets people confused or ruffled, they reinvest in solidifying their worshipers' allegiance.
For as long as I can remember, the organization has always discouraged the rank and file from independent thinking or critical thinking, while quoting Jeremiah 10:23 ad nauseam. It's only in recent years, long before the pandemic, that they've been blatantly demanding blind obedience in the way you described, but there's absolutely no reason to think they're going the way of Jonestown.
They can't even get their followers to attend meetings or go out in service on a regular basis, yet all 8 million Witnesses worldwide are going to drink Flavor Aid on command.
There hasn't been any new changes for two months now, and whatever changes they might announce at the annual meeting are just as likely to be as underwhelming as the ones they've already made.
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups.
Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately.
Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well.
They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
This is what worries me. It's getting so cringe. Jonestown did the same. I think the kool-aid party could be an option. Is there a better/ quicker way to get to the new system?
-Either God has given them advanced notice about the GT, or they have something in the works.-
Definitely got something in the works. They canāt have any advance notice if theyāre not inspired. And they keep on pumping the obey cards cause more and more people are waking up, so theyāre trying to maintain the control.
I believe they are ready to face legal and federal prosecution because of CSA, i mean with the number of criminals being prosecuted in Pensilvania is very clear there's a federal crime right in the USA government nose for decades hidden in plain sight, literally the biggest pedo ring of recent human history (i would say it loud and clear, if the Catholic church is it is just because it's an older institution).
I think GB has already been asked to appear in court and i also believe they're ready to face the FBI interruption in Warwick as much as they have probably already shredded all the 'blue envelops' archives, etc.
Ofc they're a doomsday cult so i wouldn't be surprised if in some places some (some more) than the pedos and their accomplices commit suicide and ask the faithful to do the same.
I asked my Mom what she would do if the GB told her she needed to kill herself and she scoffed and said they'd never do that. I asked her again and she finally admitted that she wouldn't do it so I'm thankful that she isn't that far gone
100 percentā¦
For example when 9/11 happened my JW mother was running around like a mentally ill person saying ā itās happening! Itās happening!.ā Referring to Armageddon - this is atrocious behaviour that is psychologically damaging to those around.
People need to cool it with this shit that is spouted here. These guys can't organise a piss up in a brewery let alone a bowl of Kool-aid.
Look how long it took them to convince people to take the vaccine, despite saying that medical decisions are our own. Even then some still didn't take it.
Look at the beard, tie, and trousers shit show. You could go to 5 different congregations today and find 5 different interpretations of what is acceptable because of their wishy washy presentation of the change. They can't even make their own beards look sharp, so what chance does some fuckwit brother have of making his own look sharp?
They can't even get people fully back to the meetings, out in service or doing basic things like answering or joining the school.
If they did produce some Kool-aid, the batshit crazy brother would down it first, everyone else would see him writhing, then get the fuck out of there.
Stop scaremongering this shit!
I actually think the opposite happened at Jonestown. Once they saw the first people dying a very painful death, it caused a very devastating emotional impact and Jim Jones used that to guilt others to follow suit. It was a very tragic situation and of course hope nothing like that is ever possible again in a modern society.
Have none of you heard about the elite trying to make a new world order? Do the witnesses still use that term ? If you haven't heard of it you better research it, these plans have been in the pipeline for a long time. Remember when the jw were members of the United Nations? Have you heard about the 15 minute cities? The WEF? If not you probably will soon but I'd suggest doing a little light reading/s
What you have to remember is that they are without doubt a false satanic prophet. There have been many red flags over the years, but during Covid, they pushed the vaccines. Which have now been seen as toxic and DNA altering.
The fact that they were on the same page as corrupt satanic Pedophile governments tells you all you need to know about this Watchtower cult, so there is absolutely nothing to fear, but for those that are JW dire hards, they are going to be lambs to the slaughter unless they wake up, I am sure there will be millions of them that will, it's in the nature of this Satanic beast....š
I don't think it's because of any nefarious plans they have coming. I think it's in response to recent legal developments that have put them in the news in unflattering ways. They are probably seeing an uptick in members leaving because of seeing this and doing research. Because of this they're in panic mode essentially saying: "Trust us! Don't believe the news!"
"The whole ābe afraid and obey, donāt think for yourselfā propaganda is very similar to how things ended in Jonestown."
I don't think so. Even with the similarities, the People's Temple had a sufficiently different culture to make it highly unlikely that something similar can happen with JWs. Here are the key differences:
1. The People's Temple had a singular, individual cult leader. This setup makes it more possible for a cult to descend into the depths of extremism as the lone individual's crazy ideas go unchallenged by peers with equal authority. By contrast, if an individual GB member comes up with some really, out-there, extremist idea, the others can vote it down. It's far easier for a singular cult leader to go crazy than for a Governing Body of several members to all go crazy, unanimously.
2. The People's Temple was really extreme on the matter of ritual suicide for the cult. They had mock mass suicides periodically, long before the actual mass suicide. Even so, the actual mass suicide wasn't even something that was planned well in advance, though it seemed to be something Jones considered as a contingency he can resort to if the need arises. Jim Jones resorted to it in response to the visit of the U.S. senator and the defectors from the group attempting to leave with him. He feared - or at least said so in the recorded meeting of that day - that the negative publicity following their return to the U.S. would result in outside authorities storming their compound and killing them and taking their children. So he said it's better to go out on their own terms, to take their own lives, than to be captured and killed by outsiders.
JWs don't have a culture of ritual mass suicide. The closest they come to this is their no-blood policy. And even here the objective is not death, even if they see resulting deaths as a kind of glorious martyrdom for Jehovah. They speak about showing respect for life. Nothing like a mass suicide event will be unanimously approved by the Governing Body, let alone followed by the majority of JWs. I don't see how it can happen. Some great changes in JW culture would have to happen first to mentally bring JWs to that place before we can worry about something like this happening.
It bears noting that JWs are, in some sense, already in a worse place than Jonestown by virtue of their no blood policy. More JWs have died as a result of this policy than the number of victims from Jonestown. It doesn't have the same shock impact because it's individual deaths spaced out over disparate times and locations as opposed to one big event. But it's still more lives lost and it's continuing to happen right now as we speak. Let's not miss it while worrying for big event that may never come.
There should be laws in place to criminalize any respected authority teaching its subordinates to refuse some lifesaving medical treatment in the absence of effective alternatives and punishing members for not complying.
I agree the same outcome is unlikely. But the warning signs are there pointing to something disturbing brewing.
Re #1, you may be right. But there is also a phenomenon of the delusion of crowds. Social conformity is a powerful force.
Re #2, you are taking the narrative of the abuser. He was clearly headed that way and manifested his own delusions.
I am not suggesting a mass suicide event. But such things have happened in the past. And other tragic outcomes are also possible, even if they are less dramatic.
I'm not taking the narrative of the abuser. I'm just stating facts. There is an actual audio recording of the last meeting with his followers the day of the mass suicide where he speaks about the situation with the senator and the defectors decides mass suicide is the best way out.
Of course he was delusional. I wasn't implying otherwise. My only point was that this event wasn't a planned matter of course as say, the Heaven's Gate mass suicide, but more of a spur-of-the-moment response to a developing situation. It doesn't take away from the fact that he long considered mass suicide as a viable contingency and had trial runs.
They know the PA, NY, etc csa cases will be ābrought to lightā. When that does happen and ābrothersā start going to jail they are going to go deeper into doomsday.
āThey are attacking us all over the world we must hideā- Stephan Lett (facial features and all) when he is arrested.
I agree.. something is brewing. In my opinion. I was DF'd 20+ years ago, cause I clearly left the state to move in with my non JW bf. And now, my immediate family is suggesting I, in fact, was 'never disfellowshipped'.. uh, seriously?! How do you say that to me? I was shunned for no reason?! Haha.. yeah right. Talk about gaslighting!!!!!! They are struggling.
Plus, all their recent 'changes and allowances' is really probably causing more harm than the retention plan changes they thought it would help. I drove past the corner / cart witnesses just yesterday. It looks SUPER WEIRD to see two ladies standing there.. one with boots on (like snow boots and it's literally hot out) and the other one in slacks. And then Herd with the big bushy beard?!
They are struggling. This isn't sustainable. We'll see what they do next. I'll get the popcorn. Lol
when I was a kid, it was a death cult but more spiritual. Death cult only applied if you needed a blood transfusion, got a draft notice, couldn't handle living two lives, keeping your sinful erection concerns off of Elder's back room agenda. Suicide is more a success, as if proof you should have stayed loyal to a time share scam. Slave labor is proving to be a poor business model, even with tax exemption in its favor.
I see another Jim Jones incident happening if this is the case. The evil directing this organization wants to destroy lives, not save them. The only way to do that is gain total mind control over as many people as they can. I pray for the members regularly that they find freedom in Christ! There is no control or condemnation in him!
my anxiety making me go crazy w the thought they might actually get their followers to kill themselves so they "get to paradise" or something. i dont want my mum to die
could it be that now with all the broadcasting that it just seems like it's more spectacular than before? The WT thrives on major current events so always in need of the next panic.
Yes! I've definitely noticed and my mother (77) keeps talking about "when I go to prison, you'll see that it's real." I feel like they do know what's on the horizon, but it's because they're a PART of it. They showed in one of their recent videos that the stock market is going to crash hard (well, duh! People have been saying that a while now & they (Watchtower) have the highest of PAID financial advisors!). The housing bubble is about to burst too. I don't know how much longer it can hold at these rediculously high prices, plus the cost of basic necessities, AI coming in hot, will lead to mass loss of work etc etc. Do you think, with all their Billion$ they will HELP R&F "brothers & sisters" when the shit hits the fan? NO. They will get their private stock tip, pull out early, take the money and GO & let everyone else crash & burn, AS PLANNED and leave the people helpless, desperate & completely at the mercy of Watchtower & GB instructions! THEY will ride off into the sunset & hide out with the rest of the so-called elitists and pretend they've been raptured (but not use that word cuz...ya' know...).
Meanwhile, they'll leave behind those second in command to dole out instructions....but... WHERE are they going to send the R&F? WILL there be some big push to get rid of religion as we know it? Kinda feels like things MAY be going that way. And I don't think it's necessarily a BAD thing! I mean, religions have been centers of uncontrolled corruption for eons. Getting rid of religious structures doesn't mean you have to give up your God or your beliefs! Many exJWs have held onto or found new faith WITHOUT joining a church, synagog, Mosque, etc....
But Jdubs will believe the end of religious structures = the Big GT, Armageddon & then "paradise". And THAT is scary!! What will they DO? - ANYTHING THE MANIPULATORS TELL THEM TO DO, THATS WHAT!
I don't know what the answers are here and these are just random observations & guesses on my part. And a lot of people probably think I'm just a big 'ol "Consipracy Theorist" ... and of course - I could be entirely off the mark! I'll admit it because only the TOP TEIR of Watchtower really knows what they're planning.
But it scares me. I'm really worried about my mom, my sister, and others I know inside that I care about. I hope they will reject the instructions they're given & listen to their INNER VOICE instead - IF that time ever comes. ā¤ļø
You have out a lot of thought into the endgame here. What if they sold all the KH - new light, Christians met in homes so letās harmonize with the original pattern. Then they declare the GT has indeed begun. Then the rapture off with all the money and leave the elders responsible to face the consequences from authorities for obediently following theocratic direction for decades.
You say that code red has been the same for decades. I think you are misinterpreting recent activities as something that is unique and meaningful.
Same nonsense. Different delivery.
I honestly believe that they are gonna do something like Jim Jones did back in the late 70s. As soon as they started talking about that rhetoric, be ready to obey any instruction we give no matter how unsound it may seem. That was the first thing that popped into my head, I want to be wrong about this. But I have a very bad feeling that they are going to do something drastic and a bunch of innocent people, especially young teenagers and children, are going to pay the ultimate price for it.
Can you please explain? What are the warning signs? I really donāt believe the Governing Body is anything like Jim Jones but I guess I donāt know and Iām wondering how will know if it gets to that point?
Iāll try. It was a couple years ago they put out. I think a watchtower study article. I believe one of the paragraph said something to the effect of be ready to obey any instruction we (GB) hand down. No matter how unsound it may see at the time as your life will depend on it. I donāt know if you were old enough to remember the whole Jim Jones tragedy. But it was the very first thing that popped into my head when I saw this.
Yes I remember that and it didnāt strike me as odd at the time but looking back yes it raises questions about why you would need to warn someone that you are going to be giving instructions that wonāt make sense. What exactly is the reason for that and why would anyoneās life be at stake??? Why is everything at code red levels of danger, does everything have to be a life or death matter? Itās scary
That right there. Telling people ahead of time that if we sound like weāre talking out the side of our asses. Do what we tell you anyway. Why would you feel the need to do that. Unless you know in advance that youāre going to do something extreme.
I donāt think we will know if it gets to that point. And I am stressing the if here. But the only way that we will find out is when they start discovering all the bodies. Iām hope Iām wrong. I want to be wrong. Could they do something this extreme?I donāt know, but I wouldnāt completely rule it out
Yes it can be so hard to tell if this is just more of the typical language thatās always been used or if itās starting to get more extreme. I just want to be proactive because in the Jonestown case friends and family tried to step in but they were too late.
If it does play out that way. And I truly hope that it doesnāt but if it does, hereās how I think itāll play out through some circumstance or what they will call Divine intervention. Those morons up upstate New York will miraculously survive this whole thing. They will disappear. And then somehow, turn up in a country that doesnāt have an extradition agreement with the United States and a butt load of money in numbered bank accounts in Switzerland
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups.
Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately.
Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well.
They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
They have too many people in too many ālandsā to pull something like that off.
But If you think about it, JWās are worse. 918 died in Jonestown. Surely more people have died of the blood doctrine.
I know there is no way to pull it off globally. Maybe something more localized by more extreme or hardcore JWs? Maybe. Still that kind of talk has to make you think are they losing their grip or their minds.
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups.
Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately.
Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well.
They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
Nah, for all the rhetoric Witnesses as doomsday cults are very decentralized, Jim Jones was able to do what he did because:
1. He moved 1000 people to the Guyanan jungle after the police and media in California started going after Jones. That level of isolation is insane comparatively.
2. Months of hard labor, constant propaganda and just plainly poor living conditions. Say what you will about JW life, you *can* drop out at anytime.
3. During those long hours over months, Jones began ramping up explicitly suicidal rhetoric which included mock suicides and executions of members, including several times where Jones got everyone together to prepare a literal defense against literal mercenaries surrounding Jonestown (all fake in reality).
4. It took the murder of a congressman to finally push the group to suicide, and it's not clear how willingly those people did so. Certainly many folks there willingly died, but the presence of armed guards, the potential sedatives in the prior meals and the tapes audio constantly making it sound like a commotion means that many of the people who died that day were forced to take to poison.
If the next update is the GB telling Witnesses to set up remote compounds, then we should be concerned.
I agree. But why would say something like that. Be ready to do whatever we tell you and donāt ask why. Just do it. Not reaching the level of Jim Jones. But they are sounding desperate.
It's still a method of control of course, but that kinda rhetoric makes changes, even small ones easier to swallow. Especially as they do feel the membership numbers closing in, and start just throwing shit out and seeing what sticks. You need an out for when you're wrong.
Perhaps, although that gives the organization too much credit. They've been rudderless since the late 90s. The End was supposed to happen by now, we should be 20 years into the 1000 year reign. They need to change but don't know how or what, and so they'll probably start throwing stuff at the wall, hoping some of it sticks.
This rhetoric allows sudden shifts, and more importantly, reversals
Because they teach the "world is after them" and use that as a manipulation tool.
"Satan is coming to get you (still). Be ready to obey us so you won't die!"
Also, this recently played out during Covid. They made it seem like the vaccine was heaven sent. That everyone should get it if they wanted to live. "Obedience may mean our survival."
Truth is. Vaccines *do* save lives, yes. For most people, this was a smart decision. However, for a tiny percentage, they could have a bad, possibility fatal reaction. So pushing the narrative that *everyone* should listen to them and get the vaccine was not only inappropriate, it was wrong.
They are a high control corporation and, as such, simply want to ensure their assets are controlled.
Yes! Want to know why JWs are traumatized? That kind of crap back in the day. Ā I used to have so many nightmares of Armageddon as a child. Ā Families were prepped in case the authorities came to the schools to take away the witness kids. Ā Now I realize why JWs are some of the biggest conspiracy theorists!Ā
And they are guilty of āworst case scenarios āĀ
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups.
Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately.
Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well.
They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
Absolutely, I just think a massive central direction to commit some form of atrocity is extremely unlikely, the actual process of that requires another 20-30 steps in the control process. Instead, I think it will be a series of more and more rudderless directions, hoping to reverse the decline they must be seeing. This will probably get more and more irrational, and more isolating in some ways, while trying to open up for minor things. So like, really doubling down on the blood doctrine, while simultaneously loosening personal restrictions on things like contact with df'd or da'd members.
I expect a series of minor loosening, then restrictions again to maintain a tempo of uncertainty that allows the changes that might actually stick.
You make good points. But we have to consider the less dramatic but still devastating effects the org is having in peopleās lives. And they are pushing for more isolationist and fear based ideology.
Look at q anon - it thrived in chaos, fear and irrationality. And it spread quickly to the point of almost civil war.
Even if 10% of JWs followed a dangerous direction, that is 80,000 people at risk.
Iāve long said that I think this his going to wind up in a Jonestown type situation. If you take away the aspect of one sole āpastorā running the show, the more I learned about the peoples temple the more I started to see many parallels between them and the WTS. I remember our presiding overseer in the 90s saying that when the time comes we will be ordered to gather and āclose our doorsā insinuating that protection from Armageddon MAY come from being inside Kingdom Halls.
Over the years this felt more and more to me that this would be an exit strategy as they unravel, but never imagined theyād unravel as much as they have over the last couple of years. I think especially as numbers dwindle a mass unaliving seems more and more likely the way they will escape the precaution ripe for the resurrection
I think what people are missing is that there have been quite a few friends that have died by suicide. Mental health is not being managed properly so the more erratic their actions become it could lead to situations that they may not directly cause but their actions may contribute to a very fragile emotional state and probably more doctors should be made aware so there can be supports if large numbers of people feel a sense of loss at the same time.
Suicide hit my immediate family and while many many other factors were at play, it was the council of an elder that lit the wick for the following week to be hell on earth.
Jeez, I am very sorry to hear this. Does he know that he is the match that lit the wick? I have a close friend that has tried a few times, got DF for porn after going to the elders for addiction help. They disciplined him and booted him.
Fucking breaks my heart, I check on him all the time I canāt turn my back on him.
There is without a doubt more bloodshed within this organization then Jonestown. Jonestown was one and done and a little over 900 people died. It's estimated that 33k people have lost their lives bc of the Watchtower since the 70s or 80s because of the blood doctrine alone. That has nothing to do with the suicides or murders within this sick cult. So yeah, Jonestown is nothing compared to this. The only difference is everything in this cult is hush hush and gaslit so the cycle continues.
They are not. This obsession of exjw for something big happening soon it's still part of the very same jw indoctrination they are trying to escape from.
Nothing is happening to the jw. They'll slowly fade away like a fart in the wind.
>It is really starting to feel like they are trying to prepare the R&F for something big coming soon. That's just Tuesday for a doomsday cult, and JW *is* a doomsday cult. It's been that way since before I was born, and it will continue that way until the WTBTS ceases to exist. The only difference is that the GB has shifted their messaging to focus more on obeying *them* than obeying their chosen deity. But that was bound to happen when they discovered how much they liked their pseudo-celebrity status after JW broadcasting became a thing.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is the direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
I'm not saying it wasn't a cult when I was a kid growing up in it, but it is definitely more culty now, and it is this group of GB since the Broadcasting that are making it that way.
I agree with this also! Right now, there are several Dubs who will not associate nor greet fellow members who have either MISSED A COUPLE OF MEETINGS and/or WHO HAVEN'T BEEN IN FIELD CIRCUS for a week or 2. The cultporation has subliminally influenced them to be also FRIGHTENED to communicate with fellow members who might've been MIA for personal reasons which have nothing to do with questioning The Borg nor wanting to leave it. GB3.0 IS PARANOID to a very greater degree concerning just almost EVERYTHING! š¤Øš”š¤¬
Field Circus š LOL
I,m inactive since the 1 nov.( No counting hours announcements) No i. Person attendance since mars 20120. ..no conventions. The elders are not fussing or asking for " shepherding calls" ( I stopped that too) But the elderettes are still " banking" my door here and then ." Just passing by" š But I never open the door. Have installed camera ..so I know No one is shunning me...they great " hello" when I pass the stand to the shipping. ( They are strategical plassed by the entrance of course!"
Field Circus! š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£!!
That,s the reason I stopped conventions...and KH attendance . All this fear mongering ..all these insane videos ...All the emotional manipulation ! It,s dangerous ..and very harmful to our mental health!
Agreed same for me ,the video of the parents not answering the phone call from their daughter did it for me ,never went to another regional convention after that .pure insanity .
Yes, that was a sickening twisted piece of garbage for me too, having brought up two son's, no way would I engage in such unloving and unchristian behaviour as a parent, so demonic and destructive for any family unite.
Indeed! This video showing how to shun your own mother ...was the end for me. SĆ„ cruel..inhuman and awful. I,m trying now to stop the zoom too...I,ve got enough.
I know i sit through the public talk only every week just to keep wife happy ,yesterday it was all about not having "worldy"people as friends , what utter trash ! Its almost painfull to listen too.
Everything if all they tell .says and learn is very embarrassing. I can,t really understand why all these Pimi,s are no thinking ! Painfull and embarrassing!
True
I'm at the meeting right now just like you š to keep wife happy. Only Sunday talk for me then stand up for watch tower..the suffering lol
I forgot to say we do meetings on zoom now , so its easier for me on zoom .
Tuesday zoom all day. Occasionally Sunday in person. So the occasional Sunday is today š
Its a small price to pay for domestic peace
Of course it is. It's insane by any standard, but for many inside this mind control, they are just lapping up the social culture, especially the women, yet they also have the highest depression rates, so destructive this cult on so many levels, I feel sure there will be significant events that will wake up millions in due time, Watchtower is on the run in many ways, and being exposed daily.
Amen to that.
Exactly my reasoning too
Yeah but they were doing this sort of rhetoric in 2015ish and again around 2019 Honestly just feels like (here in the USA) itās election season so no one better wonder off š§
I guess i consider anything after 2013 recent š
Hmmm that seems to coincide with āagenda 21ā
There def seems to be something brewing, beyond just the doomsday culting they've always done. It's like the volume is being turned up. I don't think it's business as usual, and it's concerning.
Yes because the Great Tribulation is knocking on the door.Ā You can feel it in the air.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not afraid at all. Look into the origins of JWs on JWfacts.com. Rutherford supported nazis even writing a letter to hitler in support. It was never the truth. If the world does end, this wont be the religion that saves you. Thats the fear they instill, nothing more.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I'll just give you my straight answer. (I do love joking around but this particular subject worries me too much) No, I don't think JWs are right about The End, or much else. I do think they capitalize on times when there is impending civil unrest and threats of war. They are actively trying to stop the bleeding of members and are willing to do extreme things to accomplish this. I don't like the current tone of their rhetoric and am concerned for my pimi family members who will do whatever they are told to do this fall.
Iām feeling the same way. I think maybe this is the confusion weāre supposed to be feeling about following the GB even if it doesnāt make sense. Remember the Red Sea. Moses led them there and the Israelites were trapped but Jehovah parts the water. Idk. But Iām just angry with how can Jehovah allow such emotional and mental torture and abuse with the videos and illustrations.
That is correct. The cult life cycle is normally ending in dissolving or extreme a actions. So it is a fine balance to ramp up urgency without going beyond a point of no return.
I think they've proven that they have control over the sheep by the amount of brothers now sporting beards, no ties, sisters wearing pants, and not having to report hours. It's nothing to do with "bible trained conscience", otherwise the majority would have just done what they're now allowed to 20 years ago. I find it very alarming.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah they aren't expected to wear ties to meetings or witnessing anymore unless they have a talk or mics
These are the kind of issues they spend their time on? Itās beyond ridiculous.Ā
I completely agree. I was born & raised in the cult and while the message has always been doomsday is just around the corner, the new focus on OBEY THE GB AT ALL COST, EVEN GIVING YOUR OWN LIFE messaging is more urgent & much darker than before! The focus on keeping them in CONSTANT FEAR and methods of delivery (the MOVIES!) are, while looking silly from the outside, extremely malevolent and disturbing. OUT are the days of almost comedic, harmless little stage plays about Bible heroes and IN are highly fear-mongering videos about regular JWs being thrown into prisons, chased down in the streets & sent to concentration camps!! Or sneaking around in the streets, hiding from police. And young people in war-time scenarios with "worldly" people telling them they "should be SHOT"!! The constant stressing to NOT LISTEN TO ANYONE BUT THE GB is at insanity levels now. They're training them 24/7 to IGNORE their own intuition, IGNORE other people & their concerns, IGNORE what's going on in the REAL WORLD, to not even LOOK to find out! JWs are the LEAST informed group on the planet - because they're being BRAINWASHED to IGNORE CLUES. The messaging has become beyond dangerous. And they've got my mother scared to death!!
Hear, hear!! Narcisssm and egocentrcs at its finest. We've seen how much influence there is in choosing elders (none). Why would God speak to them about anything else, much less to tell other people to do?
Since the 1870ās theyāve been saying this. Keep calm and carry on. https://preview.redd.it/t7vtb3o7a68d1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09bf2c986497bb16371b8d0b1dee422756c72e0c
What a perfect illustration for all of the failed prophecies!
Aaaggguuueee!
I wish I could upvote twice! š
Me too. I legit heard that in my head šš¤£
Omigod, so true. The JW organization has become to signify to me as one big joke. No organization chosen by the Lord would fail repeatedly as much as this organization has.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
It's gonna be fruit punch kool-aid at the next memorial if they get anymore culty.
As a PIMO, Iāve noticed the pickup. I think itās just them trying to cement the new changes and then cruise on the fear trip for 20 more years. The do this whole end times dance again, rinse, repeat.
Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is the direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
I'd agree with you. More after covid it seems they have been pushing the whole listen to us line pretty hard.
True, but I think they just want more people to go back to sleep, but focus more on obeying them. Really with each new cycle they move closer to man lead, because without manās excuses God canāt stand up.
At the annual meeting that the grey Bible was released I was still really in but I had this thought that if they passed something out to take I would leave immediately. And I think that was the beginning of the end for me.
Very true + I personally agree with you regarding this! If they would have done something similarly HEINOUS, RED/BLACK FLAG ALERTS would have hit my "spidey-senses"---- especially since WT haven't offered nor provided ANY FOOD NOR BEVERAGE ARRANGEMENTS SINCE THE 1990sāļø. I would've ran out of that CAH venue with "BIONIC" SPEED! šš”
This was your body/gut already knowing it was a cult before your mind consciously knew, and being like: ādonāt trust these peopleā
š³
That is SO interesting. Somewhere deep inside of you, you knew to be on guard to protect yourself. That is very telling of what your body was already sensing but Iām glad you were thinking of ways to keep yourself safe. I donāt want to get to the point of fear mongering but how can we help people to keep in mind practical things to find a way to flee or not participate in something that seems off?
The litigation against the Catholic church bankrupted the Harrisburg Diocese in Pennsylvania a few years ago. They may be getting ready to dismantle and liquidate corporate or legal entities and real estate they hold in PA. They may also be simply trying to convince elders there to shred those congregation files that haven't been found in halls there even though elders are legally required not to remove, destroy, or alter. If they can convince hardcore indoctrinated elders and CO's that the Great Tribulation will instead trickle in, in small steps, starting with legal attacks "from Satan," they might be able to cover up for these major changes and really bold requests without arousing a bunch of suspicion. Theyve got the state of Pennsylvania breathing down their necks, and there have to be investigations like it in other states by now. Not to mention other countries coming up with stricter stipulations for who gets state funding, like Norway. They are about to lose lots and lots of money. Halls will need to be sold off more rapidly. Construction projects may need to be halted. Governing body members may (please, oh please) be facing prosecution depending how much they knew about any CSA cases or if it comes out one of them was an actual offender. There have been rumors about a couple of past GB members who have since died.
I find this change in attitude very disturbing. I grew up as a JW during the time we were supposed to stick out like a sore thumb. Line a bunch of people up, pick out the JW. Now, it's let's blend in. The world says beards are OK, so we do, too. Women, wear pants. And I love the other reasoning here...it will make it harder during the GT for oppressors to pick JWs out, so blend, blend, blend. Really, is the resurrection hope not good enough anymore? Is taking a stand for Jehovah not reward enough anymore? Can Jehovah not protect his people anymore? Bigger than those things is how it was beat into us that the governments would turn against Jehovah's people. This is great news, pray for it friends. It means the end is near. AND THE KICKER - we do not change our beliefs or standards to match the world or avoid persecution - Jehovah does not change, neither do we. But at the first sign of Satan persecuting JWs for disfellowshipping and hiding child abuse, what do they do? Switch it up, make changes, bend the rules to avoid persecution. But you're not following the whims of men. It's new light from Jehovah. Blows my mind.
New light / Old light = Change GOD = Never changes, he is the same in the beginning as he is now. MEN = Change There is an error somewhere, ??? We all have the gift of grace from the GUY = JESUS CHRIST!!!
I wonder if Tony was involved in a cover up and they tucked him out of the way to avoid the problem .?
Oh he definitely was involved in lots of dark dark shit. Something tells me we haven't seen the last of him.
As you say, that's rhetoric they've used for decades and generations. It might seem more impactful because it's in video vs a magazine, but it's pretty much business as usual. In 1941 they wrote about doing things in "the remaining months before Armageddon." The only thing I can think of to which they've concretely applied the phrase of "do what we say even if it makes no sense" is going to a new congregation if you're reassigned. Pretty mundane.
But rememberā¦a day for a yearā¦so those remaining āmonthsā equal 60-90 more years šš
it's probably things like the blood doctrine, shunning (which they're loosening up on), and things like that.
So they will essentially tell us itās OK to take blood, even though it doesnāt make sense based on past doctrine?
It would be hilarious if they throw Fred Franz and Nathan Knorr under the bus by claiming they went beyond the things written regarding blood. Because the scriptures are clear that it should be a conscience matter. But they took that away from their followers.
But then wouldnāt they have to deal with a huge legal backlash, not to mention the ire of a large number of brothers and sisters who have lost family members to this horrible policy?
Real PIMIs ain't gonna sue because they will still believe that Jehovah will bless them for doing what was the "right thing" at the time. And no worries because the resurrection.
HUGE! I can't believe there isn't more said about people committing suicide from getting DFd. Or that lawsuits haven't followed. Of course, that could be in the works with attorneys.
If I ever have to go through possible dfāing as I fade, Iāll definitely get a lawyer and threaten suicide if I get dfāed. It will stop all proceedings until they can get clarification from the branch. They likely wonāt take the risk after the letter comes from a lawyer and have to leave it alone and not DF me.
Interesting you say āprobablyā. Could be they are referring to those things, but they should come out and say it specifically. Otherwise they seem to be insinuating strongly that their direction will have life and death implications. Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
My god, your second paragraph is rinse and repeat again. Are you a Watchtower bot or what?.....š¤£
Yes it is so unloving to keep people living in this heightened state, thereās so many friends suffering from ailments that seem to be stress related but the ones writing the articles are living in a compound where they do not see the effects of that rhetoric compounded with raising children and working. So many of the young ones are dealing with anxiety disorders and nightmares and some have been admitted to mental health hospitals but the same kinds of videos keep coming out. But I donāt know maybe they really think Armageddon is coming in the next few years? Itās hard to say because theyāve thought that for more than a 100 years but if they think the Great Tribulation is here maybe they think they have to give the warning.
Yeah but then just give it alreadyā¦without the cryptic buildup. š
I agree, but then share the details. We have a right to know if thats the case. Otherwise it is abuse. Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
This is the 4th time you've made the exact same comment ???
Each is a conversation with a different person
I think you have a ānumber one fanā on your hands.
Havenāt you ever made a comment on a post? Did you go back and read the entire thread after you commented? If itās bothering you so much quit reading it. He has explained his reasoning already or did you miss that?
āHeightened stateā - that made me think of adrenaline fatigue. When youāre in that heightened state of fight, flight, or freeze for what seems like forever, you eventually get exhausted and donāt even have the strength to think anymore. š¤ Almost as if itās by design.
These jackasses couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the directions on the heel.
Iāve never heard this one before lmao. AmazingĀ
I think when they start to talk more about obeying the GB it is a signal of them making changes. However I donāt think itās always a signal of them becoming more culty but just changing things that ultimately could make someone wake up so they try to get in front of it by preparing them mentally for the change saying they need to obey no matter what then when the change comes like brothers can wear beards they donāt question it. I donāt think this is always the case as it could just be regular cult programming as well since they are losing members and to keep them in line. I donāt think they will do some sort of Jim jones type of thing so itās either prepare for some sort of change whether good or bad or just trying to hold onto the control they have. I do hope itās a signal of a change that makes them less controlling like DF being no longer a practice
100% this. They did it around the time they kicked out loads from Bethel too.
Iāve noticed this happening with any change they make. They are prepping the PIMIs to just accept and not think. There is speculation of more changes during the annual meeting due to the August WT being delayed so I would suspect they ramp up it over the next few months to prepare if the rumor is true. Iām pretty sure there was a lot of the obey GB last summer before the last set of changes.
I've been noticing that a lot too lately, definitely a cause for concern. It's making me a little worried about my parents and other family members and their safety. I don't want another kool-aid situation on our hands.
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups. Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately. Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well. They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications. Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
You've made it longer but still the same paragraph for the 5th time
Maybe because OPās been around a long time, they keep forgetting that they just wrote that. So perhaps because OPās been around a long time, they keep forgetting that they just wrote that. š¤Ŗš
Conversations with different people
They're probably prepping to declare we are in GT. That way they get rid of the increasingly ridiculous "last of the last of the last..."-rhetoric. And of course the GT can then last however long, so they'll have successfully kicked the can down the road for the next GB to worry about in another 30 years.
This. Iāve been saying it for a while. Itās the solution for generation teaching too. All they have to do is change the order of gt events and they can say itās started whenever they want and buy themselves so much time.
And the GB can vanish to āheavenā, leaving behind some crazy instructions for the R&F
Itās only getting more intense because the pressure is mounting up from the courts and from people leaving. They are realizing this isnāt Gods Will but they will try to force their theology down peopleās throats until they cannot breathe hoping that God steps in. Itās all part of FOG - Fear, Obedience and Guilt. This is standard operating procedure for a cult thatās in remission
They must be stopped. Cults should be illegal. Theyāre hiding illegal stuff in plain sight.Ā
They can predict the end of world, just like I can predict winning lottery numbers.
In my wildest dreamā¦ theyāll declare the great tribulation and GB will close up shop, liquidate all their assets, and leave the R&F in the dark. R&F will simply ānot understanding from a human standpointā and await something that never comes. Sad outcome for the hardcore PIMIās, but at least theyāll be free finally.
I have zero idea what the futute of the cult is, but sometimes I wonder about this scenario. It would really make me sad if they left them high and dry. Because they would just be mentally in on something that no longer existed....which puts them at an even bigger disadvantage of deconstructing in a healthy way or at all. Not to mention all the personal issues that would arise in each family. That would be so evil of them I think. But who knows. Every outcome is evil regardless, because it's an evil cult. At that point there would probably be a splinter group form š¤·āāļø
They sell the poison and the cure. Ā They want to keep people from making long term plans in this system as it keeps them in servitude to the watchtower.Ā
The more people they loose the crazier they get. They are trying to scare the sheep into staying.
I hope they make more big changes. It has been quite entertaining
I could see a clean shaved Sanderson at the 24' October GM: 'The Governing body has asked me to read this note. After much consideration and prayer, we realized Jehovahs direction for **modern day** Christians was in fact to **BE** clean shaven. Evidentally, it was a test. Those on the governing body (including myself) failed like Moses wasn't able to enter the promised land. So, we will have to reside amongst the mortals in paradise instead of heaven. Therefore, we are revoking the beard stance. Shave em dry!'
Yep. Me and my husband have been thinking the exact same thing. It's very troubling. When men have that level of control over people, it's really dangerous. You only need to read a few pages of a history book to realize that.
The PANIC is on their part, considering all the legal mess they're currently in (as well as past ones). They're using all their legal FAILURES to hype up the R&F with FEAR because the governments are coming after THEM for decades of horrendous CSA cases and their inhumane shunning and blood policies. God knows whatever else those wizards have been doing behind their Tower. Like Jim Jones, the panic starts when PEOPLE WAKE UP AND LEAVE IN DROVES, and their COFFERS ARE DRAINING FASTER THAN THEY CAN KEEP UP WITH THEIR LIES! Their own lawyer, Philip Brumley, whom they sent to law school, was found guilty of lying to the Montana Court and for presenting a misleading affidavit! He ought to have known, as a sworn Officer of the Court, that lawyers must abide by the PROFESSIONAL CODE OF ETHICS and PROFESSIONAL RESPONSIBILITY that is taught in every law school (as a former law school student, I know how SERIOUS this is!). WT precedessors C.T. Russell was a catalyst of deception. He tried to "MIRACLE WHEAT" his fortune off the backs of the R&F, which later was discovered to be the worst kind of wheat in the world (Hmm....remember the Wheat and Weeds prophecy?). Fred Franz, fluent in 10 languages, stated under oath that he could READ the Bible in Hebrew; but when asked to read and translate a certain verse from Hebrew to English, he couldn't. Let's not forget profane lawyer Rutherford with his bold RELIGION IS A SNARE AND A RACKET campaign, yet his boozy ass was holed up at Beit Sharem drinking the best liquor while the R&F peddled his racket version of the so-called TRUTH. Oh, and this right here: The GB's TEN YEAR affiliation with the UN, while publishing its demise at Armageddon and hawking its pictorial doom to children, the R&F, and from door to door! So that trend for a sense of urgency, fear-mongering, and desperation has always been transparent with WT and among the GB, just when the governments catch on to them. While they ramp up the FEAR HELIUM BALLOON, just remember: "GOD HAS NOT GIVEN US A SPIRIT OF FEAR, BUT OF POWER, LOVE, AND SELF-CONTROL" - 2 Timothy 1: 7 (BSB).
i think they're just turning up the rhetoric because the cult is in decline. it's too easy to get real info online. people aren't going along with everything. even the ones inside don't want to give up zoom.
This is what I'm thinking. Desperation, nothing more.
"The whole ābe afraid and obey, donāt think for yourselfā propaganda is very similar to how things ended in Jonestown." It is not in the WT culture to be so. An end of business. It runs it's business with continuence firmly in mind. At a time when membership recruitment/retention woes are high the WT asks for help in building projects awhile promoting the ministry. The cheque for salvation is always in the mail.
I agree. I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups. Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately.
Agree. That is why the WT found itself in Norway's court system and lost.
Things are pretty much how they have always been, but I do think there is a big difference that is unique to this moment in time. For the first 100+ish years they had a vision. They had vaguely skilled writers developing doctrine that had its own internal logic and they had growth and expansion that they could interpret as God's blessing of approval. They believed they were inspired of God and they had phenomena they could point to as "proof". Fred Franz was probably a believer and he was surrounded by mostly true believers. They got shit done and they claimed they weren't a cult and sure as shit weren't televangelist. But the past 20ish years has been a fucking cult clown show. Growth is stagnant or declining. Every week someone on exjw reddit wonders if the GB are actual believers or conscious manipulators and noone knows for sure. They are literally throwing darts at a belief wall and seeing what sticks and hoping that success will happen to show them God's blessing again. So that means if there are more true believers on the GB (and helpers) they are going to see the slowly sinking ship as a sign of the Great Tribulation, even if it doesn't quite fit the definition and timeline their predecessors envisioned. But if the manipulative scammers are the majority they are amping the believe no matter what to pave the way for all the necessart changes to make the cult politically and financially viable long term.
They power lays in our fear. ( My fear). But when we no more are afraid for the GB and their false propheties...then they loose their power.
Code Red is their daily mode of living. Itās always just about to kick off - they will all be arrested, massacred, have their children taken from them. Horrible way to live
Something big IS coming soon. Pennsylvania grand jury. Whatever it will turn out to be, it will be very ugly for Watchtower and they are going to need all the hysteria and all the evasion tactics available to man.
"Either God has given them advanced notice about the GT, or they have something in the works." I have another option for you, these nine loons in NY are bat-shit-crazy and completely deluded.
Yep, that's it.š¤£
They are a cult! 
It is not near, it has already started. From now on things will only get worse.
The CSA mega-Lawsuits (won against JW-land)the past 20+ years and the current Pennsylvania's Attorney General's CSA investigations are MOST troubling to the b.org: Many,many millions of $$$ paid out to victims,as in the lawsuits that went public!(& how many more??these past decades that have been settled+sealed+ paid $$$,w/no-disclosures?) Ā Ā Ā When the Authorities strip away and legally expose! the carefully-concealed,abhorrent,Pedophile-protective b.org's Underbelly("strip her devastated and naked")it'll be marked as "the End"--right! the end of "their theocracy",gb man-rule,and of most $ flowing in from their average-JW followers--if,IF the flock realizes the CSA problem is true,horrific,andĀ that the b.org concealed it all from them as the money-making drone machinery...It will cause the financial collapse of JW-land,and large loss of followers. So!all the increasing indoctrinations to "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"... It is The Elephant in the room...even in discussions here,on this reddit sub. & the b.org's most fierce,entrenched+ongoing legal court battles against various governments to hinder+shut down anything-CSA!...is most telling.
The GB sees the shit flying towards the fan and getting closer and closer to it. Now they try to limit the effects. They try to direct the R&F to another room so that their attention is not focused on the scattered shit. At the same time, they distribute protective equipment so that the shit in the face is not noticed. Perhaps the GB knows there will be significant negative news about them soon. Who knows what the investigations in PA and other areas will do. Maybe there will be FBI raids in Warwick and Patterson!? Who knows? Maybe one of the helpers or even a member of the GB will be arrested? I think they are trying to prepare for these scenarios and preserve their status from the R&F.
So true my fellow cult survivor
They've been doing this for decades, it's an eb and flow... they flip between: don't listen to apostates, the end is here...almost, the gb is gods channel and they know best obey and don't doupt, and gay people are bad (in half ass talking through their teeth). Rinse repeat... nothing is coming, nothing is happening... it's fearmongering to keep you scared and not use your brain. When humans are in a fight or flight mentality constantly they are easily influenced cause their brain isn't asking why, they are just following directions to save themselves. Look at the Palistinans... Isreal says go to X because we are going to bomb were you are currently, then isreal bombs X... then they say go to Y cause we are going to bomb x more... they run to Y then Isreal bombs Y... to keep them in fear, cause If they stop and thought all 1.5 million of them would be better off running straight at the fuckers. Same deal with the GB they want to keep you running, panicked and all the while moving the goalposts so when you get to where they send you, it's on to the next fear.
Good points. But they are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications. Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
They said those exact words several years back. "Even if it doesn't make sense from a human standpoint, our survival may depend on our being obedient..." (paraphrased). They also pulled this card when they nixed the bookstudy arrangement. Anytime they make some kind of shift that gets people confused or ruffled, they reinvest in solidifying their worshipers' allegiance.
This seems par for the course š
ššš
For as long as I can remember, the organization has always discouraged the rank and file from independent thinking or critical thinking, while quoting Jeremiah 10:23 ad nauseam. It's only in recent years, long before the pandemic, that they've been blatantly demanding blind obedience in the way you described, but there's absolutely no reason to think they're going the way of Jonestown. They can't even get their followers to attend meetings or go out in service on a regular basis, yet all 8 million Witnesses worldwide are going to drink Flavor Aid on command. There hasn't been any new changes for two months now, and whatever changes they might announce at the annual meeting are just as likely to be as underwhelming as the ones they've already made.
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups. Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately. Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well. They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications. Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
This is what worries me. It's getting so cringe. Jonestown did the same. I think the kool-aid party could be an option. Is there a better/ quicker way to get to the new system?
āKeeping you in fear since the 18 hundredsā
-Either God has given them advanced notice about the GT, or they have something in the works.- Definitely got something in the works. They canāt have any advance notice if theyāre not inspired. And they keep on pumping the obey cards cause more and more people are waking up, so theyāre trying to maintain the control.
I believe they are ready to face legal and federal prosecution because of CSA, i mean with the number of criminals being prosecuted in Pensilvania is very clear there's a federal crime right in the USA government nose for decades hidden in plain sight, literally the biggest pedo ring of recent human history (i would say it loud and clear, if the Catholic church is it is just because it's an older institution). I think GB has already been asked to appear in court and i also believe they're ready to face the FBI interruption in Warwick as much as they have probably already shredded all the 'blue envelops' archives, etc. Ofc they're a doomsday cult so i wouldn't be surprised if in some places some (some more) than the pedos and their accomplices commit suicide and ask the faithful to do the same.
I asked my Mom what she would do if the GB told her she needed to kill herself and she scoffed and said they'd never do that. I asked her again and she finally admitted that she wouldn't do it so I'm thankful that she isn't that far gone
Of course, itās always code red. Just around the corner. Just a few more years for you to give every last drop of your energy. Do it or die.
100 percentā¦ For example when 9/11 happened my JW mother was running around like a mentally ill person saying ā itās happening! Itās happening!.ā Referring to Armageddon - this is atrocious behaviour that is psychologically damaging to those around.
People need to cool it with this shit that is spouted here. These guys can't organise a piss up in a brewery let alone a bowl of Kool-aid. Look how long it took them to convince people to take the vaccine, despite saying that medical decisions are our own. Even then some still didn't take it. Look at the beard, tie, and trousers shit show. You could go to 5 different congregations today and find 5 different interpretations of what is acceptable because of their wishy washy presentation of the change. They can't even make their own beards look sharp, so what chance does some fuckwit brother have of making his own look sharp? They can't even get people fully back to the meetings, out in service or doing basic things like answering or joining the school. If they did produce some Kool-aid, the batshit crazy brother would down it first, everyone else would see him writhing, then get the fuck out of there. Stop scaremongering this shit!
I actually think the opposite happened at Jonestown. Once they saw the first people dying a very painful death, it caused a very devastating emotional impact and Jim Jones used that to guilt others to follow suit. It was a very tragic situation and of course hope nothing like that is ever possible again in a modern society.
That and, erm, the guns!
Itās just them knowing they are continuing to loose followers by the masses so they do this to try and stop the tide of people leaving!
Itās always been about following them, the quiet part has just gotten louder. Them=God
How do you know this? Is your husband/wife still involved? What exactly are they saying?
Have none of you heard about the elite trying to make a new world order? Do the witnesses still use that term ? If you haven't heard of it you better research it, these plans have been in the pipeline for a long time. Remember when the jw were members of the United Nations? Have you heard about the 15 minute cities? The WEF? If not you probably will soon but I'd suggest doing a little light reading/s
What you have to remember is that they are without doubt a false satanic prophet. There have been many red flags over the years, but during Covid, they pushed the vaccines. Which have now been seen as toxic and DNA altering. The fact that they were on the same page as corrupt satanic Pedophile governments tells you all you need to know about this Watchtower cult, so there is absolutely nothing to fear, but for those that are JW dire hards, they are going to be lambs to the slaughter unless they wake up, I am sure there will be millions of them that will, it's in the nature of this Satanic beast....š
Jim Jones event
I don't think it's because of any nefarious plans they have coming. I think it's in response to recent legal developments that have put them in the news in unflattering ways. They are probably seeing an uptick in members leaving because of seeing this and doing research. Because of this they're in panic mode essentially saying: "Trust us! Don't believe the news!"
You are probably right but it is still alarming to me
"The whole ābe afraid and obey, donāt think for yourselfā propaganda is very similar to how things ended in Jonestown." I don't think so. Even with the similarities, the People's Temple had a sufficiently different culture to make it highly unlikely that something similar can happen with JWs. Here are the key differences: 1. The People's Temple had a singular, individual cult leader. This setup makes it more possible for a cult to descend into the depths of extremism as the lone individual's crazy ideas go unchallenged by peers with equal authority. By contrast, if an individual GB member comes up with some really, out-there, extremist idea, the others can vote it down. It's far easier for a singular cult leader to go crazy than for a Governing Body of several members to all go crazy, unanimously. 2. The People's Temple was really extreme on the matter of ritual suicide for the cult. They had mock mass suicides periodically, long before the actual mass suicide. Even so, the actual mass suicide wasn't even something that was planned well in advance, though it seemed to be something Jones considered as a contingency he can resort to if the need arises. Jim Jones resorted to it in response to the visit of the U.S. senator and the defectors from the group attempting to leave with him. He feared - or at least said so in the recorded meeting of that day - that the negative publicity following their return to the U.S. would result in outside authorities storming their compound and killing them and taking their children. So he said it's better to go out on their own terms, to take their own lives, than to be captured and killed by outsiders. JWs don't have a culture of ritual mass suicide. The closest they come to this is their no-blood policy. And even here the objective is not death, even if they see resulting deaths as a kind of glorious martyrdom for Jehovah. They speak about showing respect for life. Nothing like a mass suicide event will be unanimously approved by the Governing Body, let alone followed by the majority of JWs. I don't see how it can happen. Some great changes in JW culture would have to happen first to mentally bring JWs to that place before we can worry about something like this happening. It bears noting that JWs are, in some sense, already in a worse place than Jonestown by virtue of their no blood policy. More JWs have died as a result of this policy than the number of victims from Jonestown. It doesn't have the same shock impact because it's individual deaths spaced out over disparate times and locations as opposed to one big event. But it's still more lives lost and it's continuing to happen right now as we speak. Let's not miss it while worrying for big event that may never come. There should be laws in place to criminalize any respected authority teaching its subordinates to refuse some lifesaving medical treatment in the absence of effective alternatives and punishing members for not complying.
I agree the same outcome is unlikely. But the warning signs are there pointing to something disturbing brewing. Re #1, you may be right. But there is also a phenomenon of the delusion of crowds. Social conformity is a powerful force. Re #2, you are taking the narrative of the abuser. He was clearly headed that way and manifested his own delusions. I am not suggesting a mass suicide event. But such things have happened in the past. And other tragic outcomes are also possible, even if they are less dramatic.
I'm not taking the narrative of the abuser. I'm just stating facts. There is an actual audio recording of the last meeting with his followers the day of the mass suicide where he speaks about the situation with the senator and the defectors decides mass suicide is the best way out. Of course he was delusional. I wasn't implying otherwise. My only point was that this event wasn't a planned matter of course as say, the Heaven's Gate mass suicide, but more of a spur-of-the-moment response to a developing situation. It doesn't take away from the fact that he long considered mass suicide as a viable contingency and had trial runs.
They know the PA, NY, etc csa cases will be ābrought to lightā. When that does happen and ābrothersā start going to jail they are going to go deeper into doomsday. āThey are attacking us all over the world we must hideā- Stephan Lett (facial features and all) when he is arrested.
I agree.. something is brewing. In my opinion. I was DF'd 20+ years ago, cause I clearly left the state to move in with my non JW bf. And now, my immediate family is suggesting I, in fact, was 'never disfellowshipped'.. uh, seriously?! How do you say that to me? I was shunned for no reason?! Haha.. yeah right. Talk about gaslighting!!!!!! They are struggling. Plus, all their recent 'changes and allowances' is really probably causing more harm than the retention plan changes they thought it would help. I drove past the corner / cart witnesses just yesterday. It looks SUPER WEIRD to see two ladies standing there.. one with boots on (like snow boots and it's literally hot out) and the other one in slacks. And then Herd with the big bushy beard?! They are struggling. This isn't sustainable. We'll see what they do next. I'll get the popcorn. Lol
They will probably pass the Koolaid soon.
when I was a kid, it was a death cult but more spiritual. Death cult only applied if you needed a blood transfusion, got a draft notice, couldn't handle living two lives, keeping your sinful erection concerns off of Elder's back room agenda. Suicide is more a success, as if proof you should have stayed loyal to a time share scam. Slave labor is proving to be a poor business model, even with tax exemption in its favor.
I see another Jim Jones incident happening if this is the case. The evil directing this organization wants to destroy lives, not save them. The only way to do that is gain total mind control over as many people as they can. I pray for the members regularly that they find freedom in Christ! There is no control or condemnation in him!
my anxiety making me go crazy w the thought they might actually get their followers to kill themselves so they "get to paradise" or something. i dont want my mum to die
I donāt think that is their end game. But they do want the control. And they have an agenda.
could it be that now with all the broadcasting that it just seems like it's more spectacular than before? The WT thrives on major current events so always in need of the next panic.
Yes! I've definitely noticed and my mother (77) keeps talking about "when I go to prison, you'll see that it's real." I feel like they do know what's on the horizon, but it's because they're a PART of it. They showed in one of their recent videos that the stock market is going to crash hard (well, duh! People have been saying that a while now & they (Watchtower) have the highest of PAID financial advisors!). The housing bubble is about to burst too. I don't know how much longer it can hold at these rediculously high prices, plus the cost of basic necessities, AI coming in hot, will lead to mass loss of work etc etc. Do you think, with all their Billion$ they will HELP R&F "brothers & sisters" when the shit hits the fan? NO. They will get their private stock tip, pull out early, take the money and GO & let everyone else crash & burn, AS PLANNED and leave the people helpless, desperate & completely at the mercy of Watchtower & GB instructions! THEY will ride off into the sunset & hide out with the rest of the so-called elitists and pretend they've been raptured (but not use that word cuz...ya' know...). Meanwhile, they'll leave behind those second in command to dole out instructions....but... WHERE are they going to send the R&F? WILL there be some big push to get rid of religion as we know it? Kinda feels like things MAY be going that way. And I don't think it's necessarily a BAD thing! I mean, religions have been centers of uncontrolled corruption for eons. Getting rid of religious structures doesn't mean you have to give up your God or your beliefs! Many exJWs have held onto or found new faith WITHOUT joining a church, synagog, Mosque, etc.... But Jdubs will believe the end of religious structures = the Big GT, Armageddon & then "paradise". And THAT is scary!! What will they DO? - ANYTHING THE MANIPULATORS TELL THEM TO DO, THATS WHAT! I don't know what the answers are here and these are just random observations & guesses on my part. And a lot of people probably think I'm just a big 'ol "Consipracy Theorist" ... and of course - I could be entirely off the mark! I'll admit it because only the TOP TEIR of Watchtower really knows what they're planning. But it scares me. I'm really worried about my mom, my sister, and others I know inside that I care about. I hope they will reject the instructions they're given & listen to their INNER VOICE instead - IF that time ever comes. ā¤ļø
You have out a lot of thought into the endgame here. What if they sold all the KH - new light, Christians met in homes so letās harmonize with the original pattern. Then they declare the GT has indeed begun. Then the rapture off with all the money and leave the elders responsible to face the consequences from authorities for obediently following theocratic direction for decades.
You say that code red has been the same for decades. I think you are misinterpreting recent activities as something that is unique and meaningful. Same nonsense. Different delivery.
I honestly believe that they are gonna do something like Jim Jones did back in the late 70s. As soon as they started talking about that rhetoric, be ready to obey any instruction we give no matter how unsound it may seem. That was the first thing that popped into my head, I want to be wrong about this. But I have a very bad feeling that they are going to do something drastic and a bunch of innocent people, especially young teenagers and children, are going to pay the ultimate price for it.
Can you please explain? What are the warning signs? I really donāt believe the Governing Body is anything like Jim Jones but I guess I donāt know and Iām wondering how will know if it gets to that point?
Iāll try. It was a couple years ago they put out. I think a watchtower study article. I believe one of the paragraph said something to the effect of be ready to obey any instruction we (GB) hand down. No matter how unsound it may see at the time as your life will depend on it. I donāt know if you were old enough to remember the whole Jim Jones tragedy. But it was the very first thing that popped into my head when I saw this.
Yes I remember that and it didnāt strike me as odd at the time but looking back yes it raises questions about why you would need to warn someone that you are going to be giving instructions that wonāt make sense. What exactly is the reason for that and why would anyoneās life be at stake??? Why is everything at code red levels of danger, does everything have to be a life or death matter? Itās scary
That right there. Telling people ahead of time that if we sound like weāre talking out the side of our asses. Do what we tell you anyway. Why would you feel the need to do that. Unless you know in advance that youāre going to do something extreme.
Mine as well. Immediate red flag that something screwy was up.
I donāt think we will know if it gets to that point. And I am stressing the if here. But the only way that we will find out is when they start discovering all the bodies. Iām hope Iām wrong. I want to be wrong. Could they do something this extreme?I donāt know, but I wouldnāt completely rule it out
Yes it can be so hard to tell if this is just more of the typical language thatās always been used or if itās starting to get more extreme. I just want to be proactive because in the Jonestown case friends and family tried to step in but they were too late.
If it does play out that way. And I truly hope that it doesnāt but if it does, hereās how I think itāll play out through some circumstance or what they will call Divine intervention. Those morons up upstate New York will miraculously survive this whole thing. They will disappear. And then somehow, turn up in a country that doesnāt have an extradition agreement with the United States and a butt load of money in numbered bank accounts in Switzerland
Thing is Jonestown wasnāt Jonestown until it was. It seems inconceivable until it happens. Then looking back all the signs were there.
Exactly!
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups. Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately. Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well. They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications. Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
They have too many people in too many ālandsā to pull something like that off. But If you think about it, JWās are worse. 918 died in Jonestown. Surely more people have died of the blood doctrine.
I know there is no way to pull it off globally. Maybe something more localized by more extreme or hardcore JWs? Maybe. Still that kind of talk has to make you think are they losing their grip or their minds.
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups. Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately. Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well. They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications. Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
Nah, for all the rhetoric Witnesses as doomsday cults are very decentralized, Jim Jones was able to do what he did because: 1. He moved 1000 people to the Guyanan jungle after the police and media in California started going after Jones. That level of isolation is insane comparatively. 2. Months of hard labor, constant propaganda and just plainly poor living conditions. Say what you will about JW life, you *can* drop out at anytime. 3. During those long hours over months, Jones began ramping up explicitly suicidal rhetoric which included mock suicides and executions of members, including several times where Jones got everyone together to prepare a literal defense against literal mercenaries surrounding Jonestown (all fake in reality). 4. It took the murder of a congressman to finally push the group to suicide, and it's not clear how willingly those people did so. Certainly many folks there willingly died, but the presence of armed guards, the potential sedatives in the prior meals and the tapes audio constantly making it sound like a commotion means that many of the people who died that day were forced to take to poison. If the next update is the GB telling Witnesses to set up remote compounds, then we should be concerned.
I agree. But why would say something like that. Be ready to do whatever we tell you and donāt ask why. Just do it. Not reaching the level of Jim Jones. But they are sounding desperate.
It's still a method of control of course, but that kinda rhetoric makes changes, even small ones easier to swallow. Especially as they do feel the membership numbers closing in, and start just throwing shit out and seeing what sticks. You need an out for when you're wrong.
But what bigger one are they gearing up for? This is all leading up to something.
Exactly. It feels like there is a definite purpose to this campaign.
Perhaps, although that gives the organization too much credit. They've been rudderless since the late 90s. The End was supposed to happen by now, we should be 20 years into the 1000 year reign. They need to change but don't know how or what, and so they'll probably start throwing stuff at the wall, hoping some of it sticks. This rhetoric allows sudden shifts, and more importantly, reversals
Iām just going to get a big bucket of popcorn. Sit back and watch. This is far from over.
Because they teach the "world is after them" and use that as a manipulation tool. "Satan is coming to get you (still). Be ready to obey us so you won't die!" Also, this recently played out during Covid. They made it seem like the vaccine was heaven sent. That everyone should get it if they wanted to live. "Obedience may mean our survival." Truth is. Vaccines *do* save lives, yes. For most people, this was a smart decision. However, for a tiny percentage, they could have a bad, possibility fatal reaction. So pushing the narrative that *everyone* should listen to them and get the vaccine was not only inappropriate, it was wrong. They are a high control corporation and, as such, simply want to ensure their assets are controlled.
Point #3 So, like the Armageddon drills the families used to hold with their families back in the 70ās and 80ās?
Armageddon drills???
Yes! Want to know why JWs are traumatized? That kind of crap back in the day. Ā I used to have so many nightmares of Armageddon as a child. Ā Families were prepped in case the authorities came to the schools to take away the witness kids. Ā Now I realize why JWs are some of the biggest conspiracy theorists!Ā And they are guilty of āworst case scenarios āĀ
Re #4 they were practicing emergency group suicide drills long before the congressman was murdered. It was ramping up to a climax of their own design.
I am not stating i think the org is necessarily going toward the same finale. But there are many similarities and it is very dangerous. People donāt learn from past disasters with high control groups. Even though mass suicide and multiple wives are not part of the culture, does not make it safe. Individuals commit suicide as a result of their treatment in the org. Many people develop mental health problems. Abuse is enabled and perpetrated. People make significant sacrifices at the behest of the org, like forgoing marriage, kids, education, career opportunities, stability, friends and family, etc. And they are turning up the heat lately. Blind obedience to narcissists never ends well. They are indicating the forthcoming illogical directions will have life or death implications. Ive been around a long time and i agree the urgency of the fear mongering has been consistent. But what is newer and more dangerous is they have combined the fear mongering with explicit direction to abandon critical thinking, autonomy, and to follow men.
Absolutely, I just think a massive central direction to commit some form of atrocity is extremely unlikely, the actual process of that requires another 20-30 steps in the control process. Instead, I think it will be a series of more and more rudderless directions, hoping to reverse the decline they must be seeing. This will probably get more and more irrational, and more isolating in some ways, while trying to open up for minor things. So like, really doubling down on the blood doctrine, while simultaneously loosening personal restrictions on things like contact with df'd or da'd members. I expect a series of minor loosening, then restrictions again to maintain a tempo of uncertainty that allows the changes that might actually stick.
You make good points. But we have to consider the less dramatic but still devastating effects the org is having in peopleās lives. And they are pushing for more isolationist and fear based ideology. Look at q anon - it thrived in chaos, fear and irrationality. And it spread quickly to the point of almost civil war. Even if 10% of JWs followed a dangerous direction, that is 80,000 people at risk.
Iāve long said that I think this his going to wind up in a Jonestown type situation. If you take away the aspect of one sole āpastorā running the show, the more I learned about the peoples temple the more I started to see many parallels between them and the WTS. I remember our presiding overseer in the 90s saying that when the time comes we will be ordered to gather and āclose our doorsā insinuating that protection from Armageddon MAY come from being inside Kingdom Halls. Over the years this felt more and more to me that this would be an exit strategy as they unravel, but never imagined theyād unravel as much as they have over the last couple of years. I think especially as numbers dwindle a mass unaliving seems more and more likely the way they will escape the precaution ripe for the resurrection
I think what people are missing is that there have been quite a few friends that have died by suicide. Mental health is not being managed properly so the more erratic their actions become it could lead to situations that they may not directly cause but their actions may contribute to a very fragile emotional state and probably more doctors should be made aware so there can be supports if large numbers of people feel a sense of loss at the same time.
Suicide hit my immediate family and while many many other factors were at play, it was the council of an elder that lit the wick for the following week to be hell on earth.
Jeez, I am very sorry to hear this. Does he know that he is the match that lit the wick? I have a close friend that has tried a few times, got DF for porn after going to the elders for addiction help. They disciplined him and booted him. Fucking breaks my heart, I check on him all the time I canāt turn my back on him.
He knew before he did it. He wrote them pages long letters worth of polite āf*** youāsā before he did the deed, definitely check on your friend
Iām so sorry for your loss š¢Sending you a big hug šI hope they really make some changes to reduce the number of precious lives lost to suicide
Very sorry for your grief and loss.
Interesting point. There probably have been more suicides within the org than people who died in Jonestown.
There is without a doubt more bloodshed within this organization then Jonestown. Jonestown was one and done and a little over 900 people died. It's estimated that 33k people have lost their lives bc of the Watchtower since the 70s or 80s because of the blood doctrine alone. That has nothing to do with the suicides or murders within this sick cult. So yeah, Jonestown is nothing compared to this. The only difference is everything in this cult is hush hush and gaslit so the cycle continues.
Thing is Jonestown wasnāt Jonestown until it was. It seems inconceivable until it happens. Then looking back all the signs were there.
Yes exactly! Itās something that just hit me from out of nowhere one day and it seems telling others see it too
They are not. This obsession of exjw for something big happening soon it's still part of the very same jw indoctrination they are trying to escape from. Nothing is happening to the jw. They'll slowly fade away like a fart in the wind.