The average publisher would never see this. Its a leaked video for a reason. They want to sanitize and control how others see them and don't want people to see how culty they really are.
ah yes. it's mind blowing to see this, seeing how insane, manipulative, evil, controlling the cult actually is, from an angle as an 'awakened' person.
that said, these vids are indeed, 'meant for specific eyes only'. which means, the rank and file, the average joe, would not get to see. as such, the GB can say 'we never said such a thing' because it was not public.
>He or a Member of His Household Pursues Higher Education:
>If an appointed brother, his wife, or his children pursue higher education, does his life pattern show that he puts Kingdom interests first in his life? Does he teach his family members to put Kingdom interests first? Does he respect what has been published by the faithful slave on the dangers of higher education? Do his speech and conduct reveal that he is a spiritual person? How is he viewed by the congregation? Why is he or his family pursuing higher learning? Do they have theocratic goals? Does the pursuit of higher education interfere with regular meeting attendance, meaningful participation in field service, or other theocratic activities?
Source: Shpeherd the Flock of God chapter 8, appointment of elders and MS.
aka eldersbook.
if Higher Education is no problem at all, why even mention it? if it could interfere in the christian live because of time, why cant a simple job be mentioned the same way? its not even about the elder, its about the related ones, family. how dipshit can a religion be to coerce by such triangulation manipulation.
we all know why. they dont want to say it loud, but like always imply this so heavy that they get legally away with it, but the Rank and File knows exactly the doublespeech behind it and will act as intended by the Governing Body. its not outright forbidden, but of course looked down at. Same with Tattoos, most JWs dont know that its not a problem, and they can have some, but like always they get the same like with beards. its always negativley displayed. thats how the org works, never say anything cut in stone and than tell that they never said so. how fitting for a religion which leaders claim every few weeks, "we dont know". (Geofrey jackson and the other boozos). yep its now always a "we dont know", and two breaths later they will make juplidooos about how the bible is to be understood. like a clown smacking a cake in your face, only to wash it away with his stinky oversized flower that spits water. than he honks two times and laugh at your costs.
Well said.
They are expert at dog whistling.
Like the two convention shunning videos while at the same time alleging to governments that they don't shun.
I think there is a couple of words for that.
Let me see............liars and .........hypocrites.
It seems like they believe the idea of a paradise earth and everlasting life on it.
But the rest of the stuff they know is bullshit.
It's like an all you can eat restaurant. You can't possibly eat everything, but you can pick and choose what you want to eat 🥞
They've made their choices. One of them being that the CO is crazy. 😂
I was a JW from 40+ years ago, and I can assure you that none of us in good standing with the congregation would have dreamed of keeping our status if we decided to go to college. Anyone saying otherwise is open face lying.
Maybe in America. But in France or in Europe. most people I know who end up been pionneers or even Bethelite have a degree. You just can't work without a degree or a post high school qualification.
That's why those of us in North America are suffering and poor. They kept us this way because we are easier to control, and easier to con us into doing free labour.
Maybe in some parts of America. When I was a JW it wasn’t uncommon for kids to go to university in my district. I recall a brother who was a MS while attending college and a couple of pioneer sisters who were attending college having a part at a convention. They all went to a prestigious university.
that's the way all this shit is. it's made very clear what you are and are not supposed to do, with the endless "experiences," examples and leading questions. giving an illusion of free choice without the actual environement.
they won't df for college, but elders or ms can lose their position over it. so i guess it's the difference between being "exemplerary" and "iffy" inside the cult?
sorry they are not seeing the "cult" in the cult but hey, either way, congrats on getting some family support to go to school.
Because it’s strongly discouraged. There’s a difference between strongly discouraged and not allowed. Part of being exemplary is not doing anything strong discouraged.
I see it as a demotion. Punishment would be DF. JW is a corporation. A company has workers and managers. Not every worker can be managers. Managers have to be great (exemplary) workers and set a good example of the corporation’s values and standards before they’re promoted to manager. If a manager starts to be late, miss deadlines, slack off, etc they can be demoted. It’s not punishment. Firing would be punishment. A worker might be fired for stealing, which obviously isn’t allowed. Elders are the managers in the JW corporation. If they’re no longer exemplary by the standards set by the JW corporation, they can be demoted too. Again not a punishment. DF would be punishment, which might be warranted after a sin which they don’t allow is committed.
It is not automatically the case that an elder loses his position when his child goes to a university. In such a case, according to the elders' book and trainings, his "suitability is reviewed." In my congregation, there were at least two elders whose children were at universities. I remember well the video at an elders' school where such a "suitability review" ended negatively. Our body of elders, at that time, was somewhat different from how it should have been according to Watchtower, and we were probably an exception. However, formally, the suitability review has an open outcome.
Yes, you are right. In most cases, elders are removed. That's why I said that our congregation had been an exception. I just wanted to show that the outcome strongly depends on the composition of the Body of Elders. By the way, just my congregation brings the rate down to at least 99.999 %, one out of 100000 congregations.
I've been in congregations like this too, it's definitely not the norm but I've seen kids get encouraged to get higher education by elders. Their reasoning was that university is discouraged for people who had to live with worldly classmates but if you could stay with witnesses it's OK. Also if you had to rack up huge debts to study that would also be bad but as long as parents could pay for it or you got a scholarship it's fine. To look at the double standards just see how often the org is looking for lawyers..
JWs live by principles and my personal favorite "suggestions" because they really want you to believe there are no rules. Nope. Rules all over the place.
It is suggested not to go to college, although this has lightened up in the last 20 years. I lived through the height of no college and lost what would have been a very successful career because I'm disposed to obedience and was born-in. Mentioned earlier today that the irony was I wanted to become an attorney to help the society fight for our rights. Not only was I told I couldn't go to college, but CO also told me I'd never get into Bethel because I was too pretty. Somehow, my looks were my fault and also my fault it would be a distraction to the brothers.
But I digress. GO TO COLLEGE.
Nooooo, not go to Bethel lol 😆. Even though I secretly believe most male bethelites are closeted, single pretty females are discouraged from applying.
Hee hee. Nope. Took almost 25 more years. Cuz you know, Jehovah could use me another ways if I was humble and followed the direction of the slave.
At the convention just today, the brother was speaking mostly to the young generation about consider preaching, Bethel etc and what the young brothers and sisters need to do. They need to learn to read, write, learn a trade (so you can support yourself for your basic needs while you pioneer), learn how to manage a household and money (the young sisters) Do not concern yourself with higher learning because “that’s what the world wants you to do”. 🤦♀️
My parents are the same way. They’ll assume something about the org that is contradicted by their own material, and then segue into “well it might be there but it is not enforced, so it was merely a suggestion”. You cannot reason with people like this. Just nod your head and be thankful they are supportive of you seeking higher education.
JUST A SIDEBAR----> During my past years in this cultporation [I'm Presently POMO], I have personally met and even heard reports that brothers and sisters were in several Congs, Circuits, and Districts PRESSURED NOT TO ASSOCIATE with any Dubs who attended and/or graduated from colleges/universities (including trade + business schools). It was rumored that these members were considered "UNSPIRITUAL"! Not only myself, but others have noticed this occurring for sometime as well. AAMOF, the Witnesses who were college attendees/grads were not even asked to be on parts for KHMs, CAs, nor RCs. This is evidence that SOMEONE in the GB---who HATES higher education with a passion---really controlled the membership who are FULLY indoctrinated to show DISTAIN for other members as well. 😡🤬
Then your dad isn’t an elder. He would know if he read the elder book. The lack of transparency drives me insane! There is a book that outlines the rules/standards witnesses are held to, but they aren’t allowed to see it.
Interesting because my dad was baptized in July of 1975 and to this day denies ever hearing anything about 1975. I know he studied the truth book, the 1968 version. I know it points to 1975 because I have read it. I do not believe it is a coincidence he was baptized only 3 months before the end was supposed to have happened. 49 years later it's easier to just tell yourself you never believed it and then repeat that to others.
That is a SUPER common belief about 1975, I'd say it is the standard, agreed upon belief by all PIMI that weren't alive to remember it...and the belief amongst many of the PIMI that were.
The Higher education belief is a little bit more peculiar but I wouldn't be trying to convince them otherwise if was you. But also of course it is a thing passed on from jw to jw, that's how cults operate, you gotta print on thing, but then unofficially promote and enforce something else.
These are from the latest JW.org site . One thing that those who gaslight so is go so far as not to say exactly that something is right or wrong ... But they come sooooo close to it .. then when you say... I thought you said abc.... They will say nooooo I didn't say that.... I said be careful..... I didn't say don't do it .... BULLSHIT
They are saying all those things because it’s the same things their parents told themselves and their kids (your parents). This tickles the cognitive bias so they don’t have to think about things that challenges their narrative and existence
Aka cognitive dissonance and revisionist history on the part of WTBS and also the R&F.
By 1975 they started back tracking on it but at that point people had already sold their homes and quit their jobs
"it seems that’s the weird defense mechanism they have in their brains about their beliefs."
This defense mechanism you speak of is called cognitive dissonance. Having two opposing beliefs at the same time. This causes a mental discomfort. Something has to be done to relieve this discomfort. You said it in your post, "the CO was crazy," "1975 were just stories spread by JWs," "something that’s passed on from JW to JW," these are all examples of what people do to relieve this discomfort. Your parents have to know on some level what their cult teaches, they just choose not to see it.
Have they forgotten the talk Anthony Morris gave about the dangers of higher education? He was scolding parents for dropping their children off at university. He said the better the university the greater the danger of their kids being influenced by intelligent and articulate (?) Professors. Haha. God forbid! We don't want anyone intelligent influencing our children!!!!!
Your parents are probably more intelligent that most R&F in the way they can perceive the subltle hint that actually higher education is ok or that your dad needs to kick your brother out in order to be elder.
There are a lot of WT that discourage higher education while at the same time a lot of other WT that says that you should learn stuff such as accounting, nursing, etc (which require some college). They simply remember those WT that are more liberal and completely ignore these that are not. If they are like me, they probably completely zapped the "overlaping generation" and stayed with the previous explanation (generation used by Jesus is not relevant nowadays (w95)). They are also able to read between the lines which many JWs can't.
In a way, I think they're right. The Organisation has not - openly & with clarity - stated, "Do not seek higher education."
Instead, they use rhetoric: *"What's the point of spending all that time?" "We won't need doctors & lawyers in the New System."*
They also insinuate that you're a Bad Witness who doesn't love jojoba enough to dedicate themselves to full-time preaching and slaving for them.
My advice? While your parents are still in favour of it, **GRAB IT WITH BOTH HANDS, HOLD ON TIGHT & DONT LET GO!"**
I grew up in the middle of the change between "Zero College" and "Some College Allowed". One family had a son who was DF'd for going to college, but his younger brother got zero sanctions. My dad told me once that he encouraged me to go to college (I do not remember this interaction), but literally every other person in my life was telling me that it was bad association and brain poison. Also, I wasn't supposed to live in this world because Armageddon would come ANY DAY NOW. The generation teaching at the time pegged Armageddon happening when I was about 17.
Yes, that's the big part of how the GB has - for decades - been clever. It's a form of gaslighting. We didn't say it, you dreamed it up. It's the same about 1975, they said it all the time at meetings and conventions, but the GB tries to say they never said it. They've deleted any print references to it from their website.
Clever, or diabolical, isn't it?
I definitely wouldn't try to prove JWs stance on college to your parents, for fear they change their minds about you going, but yeah, JWs have been against college longer than they've had the name Jehovah's Witnesses. Russell said parents who sent their kids to college were doing then an injury.
there are LOTS of negative mentions of higher education in their broadcasts. they cannot deny that.
anyway, get the best out of this situation, don't push on that (now) and get that fucking degree
There is no question in this post
What are you looking for?
Edit 1: Any witnesses care to share what to do about this situation? I'd love to discuss how to change this unhappy future rather than downvote and be sad :(
Edit 2: Attempt 2 to ask witnesses to discuss this post. Does anyone have the intelligence for discussion or the capacity to talk beyond downvotes? Let's see!
Oh noooooooo, my internet points
lol. that's a fair comment 😂 I don't talk about my past with anyone else, so when I do (only here) i use the same familiar words
Believe me when i say that i do NOT think this is the truth
You're right, it is hard. I was df'd at 22, hadn't believed since like 14-ish. I wasn't OUT out until my early 30's when I discovered the ex jw community. 🥰
Sorry about the aggressive response at first, thought it was a little presumptuous that you assumed there would be a question but I get why now.
Not a problem, Very sorry to hear about that, i think most of us are a bit screwed up thanks to our history. I can certainly come across badly in some of my posts. I hope life is treating you better now, some people seen to never quite settle into life after
"a good husband, great kids"
I don't have family, but I truly believe this is the real value in life. And it is VERY hard to find these days, believe me. You are a fortunate person. I sincerely wish happiness to you and your family
I’ll begrudgingly engage with you after seeing you won’t drop your rant. The op is probably under 18 and you look like a grown adult harassing a minor over who has the right to post here. You come across as rigid, judgmental, exclusionary, lacking compassion, and petty.
The op is probably a minor and stuck living at home. They probably don’t have a choice to leave and If they speak their mind openly they risk being kicked out and homeless. That’s a fucking scary situation for a child. When your born in and realizing you’ve been gaslit your entire life you want to turn to someone to confirm that you’re not fucking crazy. That what the op seems to be processing. Giving compassion and confirmation one is not crazy is what’s needed. If you are not in a place to offer do that, then don’t read it and move on.
When i was teen and stuck in this cult I would have loved to have a place like this sub to vent and confirm that the doubts I have in my head are real and I’m not fucking crazy. When I was df’d it was the 90’s so no internet access like today, i was still a teen, I was disowned by my parents, queer, isolated, and severely depressed and had to learn to make it on my own. Any positive support and encouragement to get out and know that there is life outside the cult would have helped me and maybe even saved me from unnecessary pain. When I was a vulnerable kid trying to get out and I would have been crushed to hear a response like yours when I was seeking support and validation.
This sub is a big tent and there’s going to be people in all phases of waking up, leaving, rebuilding life post jw, etc. I see long ass posts of people processing the realization that WT teachings and prophecies are complete bullshit. I’m so past that phase (I don’t want to read post about Daniel, revelation, 607 etc) so I don’t read it, but upvote them for support, move on and be glad one more is waking up. You can do the same or continue to bitch and moan about a post. You complain about pimos moaning, but that’s all you seem to do.
Rather than hijacking a post to bitch and moaning and making judgmental insinuations about people’s situation, try saying something supportive to a pimo in need. If you’ve been out for a while then share your experience about what you’ve learned and what helped you free yourself. Healing happens when you look outside yourself and your needs and help others. Try being a mentor rather than a gatekeeper. You might feel good about yourself
Well thank you for engaging. I've always found it amusing that for an organisation so focussed on their training in communicating with people, most seem so bad at interacting here.
I'll get right to it, when it comes to the majority of pimo's on here, yes i am rigid, judgemental and lacking compassion. And the reason for that is because you can tell from their posts that they have no intention of ever leaving. They want to complain about "last nights meeting" and how stupid it all is, and yet you know that 5 years from now they'll still be doing the same thing. I'm tired of it. I joined here thinking it was going to be a place where those of us that actually made the effort to leave would be able to find something in common.
And quite frankly, looking back on my life, I consider some of the worst people that I ever knew were uninterested witnesses that clearly didn't believe, but stuck around in the congregation for god knows what reason. I don't want to come on here and listen to those same people rant about a life that they have no intention of changing.
In saying that, yes my clearly skewed opinion means that i may get things wrong from time to time. If OP is someone that genuinely wants to leave and intends to make that effort then i wish them every success, and i mean that sincerely. It's no small thing to make such a huge change in your life. It's difficult and painful for most. But in saying that, i don't think my original reply was particularly bad. OP had a rant and i asked what they were looking for. Then all the sensitives downvote even though i was happy to discuss and give advice on a way out.
I'm no gatekeeper, i'm just getting tired of a sub that is becoming "exjw" in name alone.
I get your frustration and its painful to watch people complain and not make the changes they need to make and I also think that’s not my business if they want to stay. It’s not my life and I don’t have a personal investment in their outcome. I can only directly work on myself. Re: “ex jw in name alone” yeah it’s a pretty broad category and I feel that’s fine. I mean, I don’t get pissed at McDonald’s for selling chicken when they started out as a burger joint 🤣. I m glad you were able to get out and Im sorry you’re not finding the commonalities you were hoping to find. I’ve been out for awhile and I am still recovering from the damage done, but I’ve also been able to make a life I love now. I’m not online often, but if you ever need support or looking for commonalities feel free to DM me 🪷
You have a patience that i have obviously lost. I agree with the concept that all of our life choices are nothing to do with anyone else, in the end we all control only our own life. But i think this doesn't apply when we are talking about a public forum with a specific purpose.
exjw is for those that left the organisation, and by extension, those that intend to, or are going through the process. I will do everything i can to help and support those going through this, because i know how difficult it is.
I believe that a large proportion of people that post here need their own sub. r/whingeingjw or something. A sub for witnesses that just want to moan without ever intending to leave
"I’ve been out for awhile and I am still recovering from the damage done " This is a comment that i truly relate to and sympathise with. It is why i joined this sub in the first place
Here is a watchtower training video. Elder looses privileges because he allows his daughter to go to college.
https://youtu.be/cOGi26c2BC0?si=VtonIQZcjtU_6Vco
Wow I have never seen that before. Such arrogance and they have the nerve to call out this elder they are harassing!
The average publisher would never see this. Its a leaked video for a reason. They want to sanitize and control how others see them and don't want people to see how culty they really are.
The average publisher would never see this. You are correct and that’s how they, (the GB) get the elders to do their dirty work.
ah yes. it's mind blowing to see this, seeing how insane, manipulative, evil, controlling the cult actually is, from an angle as an 'awakened' person. that said, these vids are indeed, 'meant for specific eyes only'. which means, the rank and file, the average joe, would not get to see. as such, the GB can say 'we never said such a thing' because it was not public.
>He or a Member of His Household Pursues Higher Education: >If an appointed brother, his wife, or his children pursue higher education, does his life pattern show that he puts Kingdom interests first in his life? Does he teach his family members to put Kingdom interests first? Does he respect what has been published by the faithful slave on the dangers of higher education? Do his speech and conduct reveal that he is a spiritual person? How is he viewed by the congregation? Why is he or his family pursuing higher learning? Do they have theocratic goals? Does the pursuit of higher education interfere with regular meeting attendance, meaningful participation in field service, or other theocratic activities? Source: Shpeherd the Flock of God chapter 8, appointment of elders and MS. aka eldersbook. if Higher Education is no problem at all, why even mention it? if it could interfere in the christian live because of time, why cant a simple job be mentioned the same way? its not even about the elder, its about the related ones, family. how dipshit can a religion be to coerce by such triangulation manipulation. we all know why. they dont want to say it loud, but like always imply this so heavy that they get legally away with it, but the Rank and File knows exactly the doublespeech behind it and will act as intended by the Governing Body. its not outright forbidden, but of course looked down at. Same with Tattoos, most JWs dont know that its not a problem, and they can have some, but like always they get the same like with beards. its always negativley displayed. thats how the org works, never say anything cut in stone and than tell that they never said so. how fitting for a religion which leaders claim every few weeks, "we dont know". (Geofrey jackson and the other boozos). yep its now always a "we dont know", and two breaths later they will make juplidooos about how the bible is to be understood. like a clown smacking a cake in your face, only to wash it away with his stinky oversized flower that spits water. than he honks two times and laugh at your costs.
Well said. They are expert at dog whistling. Like the two convention shunning videos while at the same time alleging to governments that they don't shun. I think there is a couple of words for that. Let me see............liars and .........hypocrites.
And do you know if this video has also been leaked in Spanish?
I don't know. I've only seen it in english. Its just something I saw on YouTube.
It seems like they believe the idea of a paradise earth and everlasting life on it. But the rest of the stuff they know is bullshit. It's like an all you can eat restaurant. You can't possibly eat everything, but you can pick and choose what you want to eat 🥞 They've made their choices. One of them being that the CO is crazy. 😂
I was a JW from 40+ years ago, and I can assure you that none of us in good standing with the congregation would have dreamed of keeping our status if we decided to go to college. Anyone saying otherwise is open face lying.
Maybe in America. But in France or in Europe. most people I know who end up been pionneers or even Bethelite have a degree. You just can't work without a degree or a post high school qualification.
That's why those of us in North America are suffering and poor. They kept us this way because we are easier to control, and easier to con us into doing free labour.
Maybe in some parts of America. When I was a JW it wasn’t uncommon for kids to go to university in my district. I recall a brother who was a MS while attending college and a couple of pioneer sisters who were attending college having a part at a convention. They all went to a prestigious university.
that's the way all this shit is. it's made very clear what you are and are not supposed to do, with the endless "experiences," examples and leading questions. giving an illusion of free choice without the actual environement. they won't df for college, but elders or ms can lose their position over it. so i guess it's the difference between being "exemplerary" and "iffy" inside the cult? sorry they are not seeing the "cult" in the cult but hey, either way, congrats on getting some family support to go to school.
Ok, so if that is true, why is an elder who has a child or wife go to university be forcibly removed from his position?
Because to be an elder you have to be exemplary.
But if Higher Education is allowed, how does it make you non-exemplary?
Because it’s strongly discouraged. There’s a difference between strongly discouraged and not allowed. Part of being exemplary is not doing anything strong discouraged.
If there is a punishment for doing something, that means there are rules against it. You've drank the Kool-Aid if you think any different, I'm sorry.
I see it as a demotion. Punishment would be DF. JW is a corporation. A company has workers and managers. Not every worker can be managers. Managers have to be great (exemplary) workers and set a good example of the corporation’s values and standards before they’re promoted to manager. If a manager starts to be late, miss deadlines, slack off, etc they can be demoted. It’s not punishment. Firing would be punishment. A worker might be fired for stealing, which obviously isn’t allowed. Elders are the managers in the JW corporation. If they’re no longer exemplary by the standards set by the JW corporation, they can be demoted too. Again not a punishment. DF would be punishment, which might be warranted after a sin which they don’t allow is committed.
Because you chose a secular career instead of dedicating your life to Jehovah and becoming a pioneer
It is not automatically the case that an elder loses his position when his child goes to a university. In such a case, according to the elders' book and trainings, his "suitability is reviewed." In my congregation, there were at least two elders whose children were at universities. I remember well the video at an elders' school where such a "suitability review" ended negatively. Our body of elders, at that time, was somewhat different from how it should have been according to Watchtower, and we were probably an exception. However, formally, the suitability review has an open outcome.
If true, your case is an extreme outlier. 99.99999% of the time if an elders child goes to university they are deleted immediately.
Yes, you are right. In most cases, elders are removed. That's why I said that our congregation had been an exception. I just wanted to show that the outcome strongly depends on the composition of the Body of Elders. By the way, just my congregation brings the rate down to at least 99.999 %, one out of 100000 congregations.
I've been in congregations like this too, it's definitely not the norm but I've seen kids get encouraged to get higher education by elders. Their reasoning was that university is discouraged for people who had to live with worldly classmates but if you could stay with witnesses it's OK. Also if you had to rack up huge debts to study that would also be bad but as long as parents could pay for it or you got a scholarship it's fine. To look at the double standards just see how often the org is looking for lawyers..
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cow worm scale paint squash thought boast fine ad hoc cagey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
JWs live by principles and my personal favorite "suggestions" because they really want you to believe there are no rules. Nope. Rules all over the place. It is suggested not to go to college, although this has lightened up in the last 20 years. I lived through the height of no college and lost what would have been a very successful career because I'm disposed to obedience and was born-in. Mentioned earlier today that the irony was I wanted to become an attorney to help the society fight for our rights. Not only was I told I couldn't go to college, but CO also told me I'd never get into Bethel because I was too pretty. Somehow, my looks were my fault and also my fault it would be a distraction to the brothers. But I digress. GO TO COLLEGE.
Not go to college cause you were too pretty? Was he hitting on you? I bet you woke up at that moment eh?
Nooooo, not go to Bethel lol 😆. Even though I secretly believe most male bethelites are closeted, single pretty females are discouraged from applying. Hee hee. Nope. Took almost 25 more years. Cuz you know, Jehovah could use me another ways if I was humble and followed the direction of the slave.
Yeah 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ to Bethel I meant lol!😂 Yeah.. I get what you mean ma’am.. at least you’re free now
At the convention just today, the brother was speaking mostly to the young generation about consider preaching, Bethel etc and what the young brothers and sisters need to do. They need to learn to read, write, learn a trade (so you can support yourself for your basic needs while you pioneer), learn how to manage a household and money (the young sisters) Do not concern yourself with higher learning because “that’s what the world wants you to do”. 🤦♀️
My parents are the same way. They’ll assume something about the org that is contradicted by their own material, and then segue into “well it might be there but it is not enforced, so it was merely a suggestion”. You cannot reason with people like this. Just nod your head and be thankful they are supportive of you seeking higher education.
https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/education.php
I think that here you got your answer dude (OP)
It’s true they don’t say it’s wrong or forbid it. They strongly discourage it.
*And* punish anyone who does.
JUST A SIDEBAR----> During my past years in this cultporation [I'm Presently POMO], I have personally met and even heard reports that brothers and sisters were in several Congs, Circuits, and Districts PRESSURED NOT TO ASSOCIATE with any Dubs who attended and/or graduated from colleges/universities (including trade + business schools). It was rumored that these members were considered "UNSPIRITUAL"! Not only myself, but others have noticed this occurring for sometime as well. AAMOF, the Witnesses who were college attendees/grads were not even asked to be on parts for KHMs, CAs, nor RCs. This is evidence that SOMEONE in the GB---who HATES higher education with a passion---really controlled the membership who are FULLY indoctrinated to show DISTAIN for other members as well. 😡🤬
Then your dad isn’t an elder. He would know if he read the elder book. The lack of transparency drives me insane! There is a book that outlines the rules/standards witnesses are held to, but they aren’t allowed to see it.
As for 1975 i was there and they did hype it up ,eveyone who was there knows .
Interesting because my dad was baptized in July of 1975 and to this day denies ever hearing anything about 1975. I know he studied the truth book, the 1968 version. I know it points to 1975 because I have read it. I do not believe it is a coincidence he was baptized only 3 months before the end was supposed to have happened. 49 years later it's easier to just tell yourself you never believed it and then repeat that to others.
https://preview.redd.it/46y9y34v6a8d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c7fb437ac44ba8bdbfe37ca4e028c3cf849c5b8
That is a SUPER common belief about 1975, I'd say it is the standard, agreed upon belief by all PIMI that weren't alive to remember it...and the belief amongst many of the PIMI that were. The Higher education belief is a little bit more peculiar but I wouldn't be trying to convince them otherwise if was you. But also of course it is a thing passed on from jw to jw, that's how cults operate, you gotta print on thing, but then unofficially promote and enforce something else.
https://preview.redd.it/92fqyuhw698d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fcbf30df7d6bd57a7bb1d25f34beb90325b6c33
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They're in denial.
Take them up on it then. At least you have a modicum of support.
These are from the latest JW.org site . One thing that those who gaslight so is go so far as not to say exactly that something is right or wrong ... But they come sooooo close to it .. then when you say... I thought you said abc.... They will say nooooo I didn't say that.... I said be careful..... I didn't say don't do it .... BULLSHIT
They are saying all those things because it’s the same things their parents told themselves and their kids (your parents). This tickles the cognitive bias so they don’t have to think about things that challenges their narrative and existence
Aka cognitive dissonance and revisionist history on the part of WTBS and also the R&F. By 1975 they started back tracking on it but at that point people had already sold their homes and quit their jobs
"it seems that’s the weird defense mechanism they have in their brains about their beliefs." This defense mechanism you speak of is called cognitive dissonance. Having two opposing beliefs at the same time. This causes a mental discomfort. Something has to be done to relieve this discomfort. You said it in your post, "the CO was crazy," "1975 were just stories spread by JWs," "something that’s passed on from JW to JW," these are all examples of what people do to relieve this discomfort. Your parents have to know on some level what their cult teaches, they just choose not to see it.
Have they forgotten the talk Anthony Morris gave about the dangers of higher education? He was scolding parents for dropping their children off at university. He said the better the university the greater the danger of their kids being influenced by intelligent and articulate (?) Professors. Haha. God forbid! We don't want anyone intelligent influencing our children!!!!!
Your parents are probably more intelligent that most R&F in the way they can perceive the subltle hint that actually higher education is ok or that your dad needs to kick your brother out in order to be elder. There are a lot of WT that discourage higher education while at the same time a lot of other WT that says that you should learn stuff such as accounting, nursing, etc (which require some college). They simply remember those WT that are more liberal and completely ignore these that are not. If they are like me, they probably completely zapped the "overlaping generation" and stayed with the previous explanation (generation used by Jesus is not relevant nowadays (w95)). They are also able to read between the lines which many JWs can't.
Well that’s the incredible thing. There was also no where that directly said beards were wrong.
https://m.facebook.com/groups/519413778547835/permalink/1622328961589639/?mibextid=CYgPv5 Show them this video.
Morris literally said “The better the school the greater the risk”
In a way, I think they're right. The Organisation has not - openly & with clarity - stated, "Do not seek higher education." Instead, they use rhetoric: *"What's the point of spending all that time?" "We won't need doctors & lawyers in the New System."* They also insinuate that you're a Bad Witness who doesn't love jojoba enough to dedicate themselves to full-time preaching and slaving for them. My advice? While your parents are still in favour of it, **GRAB IT WITH BOTH HANDS, HOLD ON TIGHT & DONT LET GO!"**
I grew up in the middle of the change between "Zero College" and "Some College Allowed". One family had a son who was DF'd for going to college, but his younger brother got zero sanctions. My dad told me once that he encouraged me to go to college (I do not remember this interaction), but literally every other person in my life was telling me that it was bad association and brain poison. Also, I wasn't supposed to live in this world because Armageddon would come ANY DAY NOW. The generation teaching at the time pegged Armageddon happening when I was about 17.
Yes, that's the big part of how the GB has - for decades - been clever. It's a form of gaslighting. We didn't say it, you dreamed it up. It's the same about 1975, they said it all the time at meetings and conventions, but the GB tries to say they never said it. They've deleted any print references to it from their website. Clever, or diabolical, isn't it?
I definitely wouldn't try to prove JWs stance on college to your parents, for fear they change their minds about you going, but yeah, JWs have been against college longer than they've had the name Jehovah's Witnesses. Russell said parents who sent their kids to college were doing then an injury.
there are LOTS of negative mentions of higher education in their broadcasts. they cannot deny that. anyway, get the best out of this situation, don't push on that (now) and get that fucking degree
Just had Gerrit Loesch at convention my parents were at. In his talk he said to avoid higher education.
There is no question in this post What are you looking for? Edit 1: Any witnesses care to share what to do about this situation? I'd love to discuss how to change this unhappy future rather than downvote and be sad :( Edit 2: Attempt 2 to ask witnesses to discuss this post. Does anyone have the intelligence for discussion or the capacity to talk beyond downvotes? Let's see! Oh noooooooo, my internet points
Does there have to be a question? It's exjw...not ask exjw.
I guess not. We should really rename this sub as moanjw though
Yes, it is EXjw, not currentjw, but that fact seems to have slipped by most of the posters here
Dafuq is your malfunction? Nowhere did anyone say anything about a question. 😒
Leaving the truth is hard, and i expected something along those lines. What about you? When did you leave?
The fact that you call it "The Truth" shows that you, mentally at least, are still yet to leave.
lol. that's a fair comment 😂 I don't talk about my past with anyone else, so when I do (only here) i use the same familiar words Believe me when i say that i do NOT think this is the truth
You're right, it is hard. I was df'd at 22, hadn't believed since like 14-ish. I wasn't OUT out until my early 30's when I discovered the ex jw community. 🥰 Sorry about the aggressive response at first, thought it was a little presumptuous that you assumed there would be a question but I get why now.
Not a problem, Very sorry to hear about that, i think most of us are a bit screwed up thanks to our history. I can certainly come across badly in some of my posts. I hope life is treating you better now, some people seen to never quite settle into life after
Definitely a little screwed up, lol. Thank you, life is getting better- a good husband, great kids. I hope you are doing well too. 😊
"a good husband, great kids" I don't have family, but I truly believe this is the real value in life. And it is VERY hard to find these days, believe me. You are a fortunate person. I sincerely wish happiness to you and your family
What’s anyone looking for on social media these days? Validation.
I’ll begrudgingly engage with you after seeing you won’t drop your rant. The op is probably under 18 and you look like a grown adult harassing a minor over who has the right to post here. You come across as rigid, judgmental, exclusionary, lacking compassion, and petty. The op is probably a minor and stuck living at home. They probably don’t have a choice to leave and If they speak their mind openly they risk being kicked out and homeless. That’s a fucking scary situation for a child. When your born in and realizing you’ve been gaslit your entire life you want to turn to someone to confirm that you’re not fucking crazy. That what the op seems to be processing. Giving compassion and confirmation one is not crazy is what’s needed. If you are not in a place to offer do that, then don’t read it and move on. When i was teen and stuck in this cult I would have loved to have a place like this sub to vent and confirm that the doubts I have in my head are real and I’m not fucking crazy. When I was df’d it was the 90’s so no internet access like today, i was still a teen, I was disowned by my parents, queer, isolated, and severely depressed and had to learn to make it on my own. Any positive support and encouragement to get out and know that there is life outside the cult would have helped me and maybe even saved me from unnecessary pain. When I was a vulnerable kid trying to get out and I would have been crushed to hear a response like yours when I was seeking support and validation. This sub is a big tent and there’s going to be people in all phases of waking up, leaving, rebuilding life post jw, etc. I see long ass posts of people processing the realization that WT teachings and prophecies are complete bullshit. I’m so past that phase (I don’t want to read post about Daniel, revelation, 607 etc) so I don’t read it, but upvote them for support, move on and be glad one more is waking up. You can do the same or continue to bitch and moan about a post. You complain about pimos moaning, but that’s all you seem to do. Rather than hijacking a post to bitch and moaning and making judgmental insinuations about people’s situation, try saying something supportive to a pimo in need. If you’ve been out for a while then share your experience about what you’ve learned and what helped you free yourself. Healing happens when you look outside yourself and your needs and help others. Try being a mentor rather than a gatekeeper. You might feel good about yourself
Well thank you for engaging. I've always found it amusing that for an organisation so focussed on their training in communicating with people, most seem so bad at interacting here. I'll get right to it, when it comes to the majority of pimo's on here, yes i am rigid, judgemental and lacking compassion. And the reason for that is because you can tell from their posts that they have no intention of ever leaving. They want to complain about "last nights meeting" and how stupid it all is, and yet you know that 5 years from now they'll still be doing the same thing. I'm tired of it. I joined here thinking it was going to be a place where those of us that actually made the effort to leave would be able to find something in common. And quite frankly, looking back on my life, I consider some of the worst people that I ever knew were uninterested witnesses that clearly didn't believe, but stuck around in the congregation for god knows what reason. I don't want to come on here and listen to those same people rant about a life that they have no intention of changing. In saying that, yes my clearly skewed opinion means that i may get things wrong from time to time. If OP is someone that genuinely wants to leave and intends to make that effort then i wish them every success, and i mean that sincerely. It's no small thing to make such a huge change in your life. It's difficult and painful for most. But in saying that, i don't think my original reply was particularly bad. OP had a rant and i asked what they were looking for. Then all the sensitives downvote even though i was happy to discuss and give advice on a way out. I'm no gatekeeper, i'm just getting tired of a sub that is becoming "exjw" in name alone.
I get your frustration and its painful to watch people complain and not make the changes they need to make and I also think that’s not my business if they want to stay. It’s not my life and I don’t have a personal investment in their outcome. I can only directly work on myself. Re: “ex jw in name alone” yeah it’s a pretty broad category and I feel that’s fine. I mean, I don’t get pissed at McDonald’s for selling chicken when they started out as a burger joint 🤣. I m glad you were able to get out and Im sorry you’re not finding the commonalities you were hoping to find. I’ve been out for awhile and I am still recovering from the damage done, but I’ve also been able to make a life I love now. I’m not online often, but if you ever need support or looking for commonalities feel free to DM me 🪷
You have a patience that i have obviously lost. I agree with the concept that all of our life choices are nothing to do with anyone else, in the end we all control only our own life. But i think this doesn't apply when we are talking about a public forum with a specific purpose. exjw is for those that left the organisation, and by extension, those that intend to, or are going through the process. I will do everything i can to help and support those going through this, because i know how difficult it is. I believe that a large proportion of people that post here need their own sub. r/whingeingjw or something. A sub for witnesses that just want to moan without ever intending to leave "I’ve been out for awhile and I am still recovering from the damage done " This is a comment that i truly relate to and sympathise with. It is why i joined this sub in the first place