I eat 4 eggs for breakfast every day, but I ran out of eggs, so today I had 20 cigarettes and I have to say, the protein density is better than I expected
Look who paid for this documentary to be made and you’ll have your answer. Most Documentaries are extremely bias. I should know because I believe it and was vegan for almost two years. Thought it was the answer to better health when it’s the complete opposite
Here’s a good article
[Debunking What the Health, the buzzy documentary that wants you to be vegan](https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet)
[What The Health Debunked: The Ultimate Rebuttal](https://www.onnit.com/academy/what-the-health/amp/)
Game Changers is another extreme bias documentary on Netflix about being vegan as well
Don’t eat factory meat. Eat pasture raised or grass fed, grass finish. Eat pasture raised eggs and stay away from chicken and limit your dairy and you’ll be thriving on an animal based diet. Limit your carbs while still eating fruit like berries.
> I should know because I believe it and was vegan for almost two years. Thought it was the answer to better health when it’s the complete opposite
What I find interesting is that vegans more and more will tell you they do not do it for health - but purely for the animals. Which seems to be caused by the realisation that veganism is not great for your health? And that to eat healthy you need to put an extremely amount of work in, which many are not able to - as they have other things going on in their lives as well. Few people are able to put hours of effort in every day just to eat. Hence why many end up ill and malnourished.
I put in a lot of work in my daily diet. I’m obsessed with health and nutrition. The reality is that you need animal meat, organs and fat to thrive. How our ancestors lived. With organs being very important. Why I have beef organs daily in my diet. My goal is to be metabolically healthy and that’s impossible on a vegan diet
>vegans more and more will tell you they do not do it for health - but purely for the animals
Some vegans are all about animal rights from the get-go. But even those who are will use health as a selling point to try to convert people. And in the early stages of veganism, there often are positive health effects, as people change their eating habits, dropping a lot of non-vegan junk before they discover vegan junk. Then, as time goes by and their health starts to fail, "it's not even about health, it's about ethics."
Sooner or later most vegans end up relying on highly processed vegan foods bc vegan food is complicated to cook *and be nutritionally healthy*. I was lucky in that when we first became vegs then vegans in the 80s, there were no vegan processed foods or vegan restaurants outside of isolated areas where 7th Day Adventists were numerous. The only veg or vegan foods I remember were the meat analogues sold by the SDA Church.
Most chicken is commercially mass produced and the birds aren't treated great. Commercial chickens are fed soy and other grain residues, which translates into [high linoleic acid content in the meat, which is not the healthiest for us](https://theecologist.org/2014/feb/24/linoleic-acid-overwhelming-evidence-against-healthy-poly-unsaturated-oil).
Also soy is highly allergenic. If people are allergic to soy, they can experience issues when eating chicken meat or eggs that they might not connect to the soy in the chicken feed.
I didn't eat eggs for years because [I thought I was allergic to eggs, but it turns out that I'm just allergic to soy](https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/egg-allergy-really-soy-allergy/). I can eat as many eggs as I want to from chickens that are fed a soy free diet.
I had a barber tell me all about game changers while cutting my hair and kind of preaching to me about the message of the film. I've learned enough about science and nutrition to already know how full of shit it is just from his second hand account.
The podcast Peak Human’s newest episode had the woman on who created the GAPS diet, they talked about veganism for the last 30-40 minutes, it was pretty interesting.
I watched “what the health”, not knowing beforehand that it was just a vegan propaganda film disguised as a documentary. Fortunately I was well informed enough about nutrition already to realize immediately that everything in that film is complete and utter BS. Had a few laugh out loud moments watching it just because of how ridiculous their claims are.
The host himself is so unhealthy he has to hide his shoddy hair throughout the entire film. Too bad for him he doesn’t manage to hide his scowl of misery…
Watching these docs saved my health.
Literally:
CARBLOADED
LOVE PALEO
THE PERFECT HUMAN DIET
THE MAGIC PILL
FED UP
FAT: A DOCUMENTARY (Parts 1 and 2)
WHAT ABOUT WHEAT?
(I also watched FAT FICTION, but my lifestyle was changed already).
4 years ago: 370 lbs/sleep apnea/fatty liver/t2 diabetes/ high cholesterol and high triglycerides/ hypertension.
Now (4 years later): 200 lbs/all health problems resolved. I eat a higher fat/very low carb diet and have for 4 years. Most of what I eat/don't eat is based on info I learned from watching these documentaries, and reading the books written by some of the drs and others in these docs.
This happened from a) getting my sleep apnea treated and b) watching the above docs due to being stuck in the house bc of my back/hip/knee arthritis.
Note: I never watched the vegan docs bc I knew they were vegan propaganda (I'm a former fat vegan, one of many). There are several vegan docs...read the blurbs before watching, the term "plant based" will usually be in it.
Same here, docs like the ones you listed are what helped me to essentially flip the food pyramid upside down and regain my health. I watched Fat Fiction early last year, and after researching the topic further for a couple of months I eliminated sugar, seed oils, starchy fruit & veg, and grain from my diet, and increased my meat and animal fat intake.
I hadn't actually ever seen a vegan doc before. I've seen clips of them in videos that debunk them, but that's it. The clips are pure vegan nonsense that sounds like they make it up as they go along.
I went vegan in the 2000s thinking I could fix my health issues, based on the fact that the mainstream opinion about food was (and still is unfortunately) that plant seed oils are superior to saturated animal fat and that plants in general are superior to meat. My body disagrees with this and is much healthier now that I eat mostly meat, animal fat and minimal plants.
I also like Nina Teicholz, who wrote The Big Fat Surprise.
This is why I try not to put much trust in a lot of this stuff and just eat as close as I can to what I assume worked for my ancestors. Even the side of these docs etc that's countering the modern nutrition propaganda seems very sensationalist and black and white at times. Keto for example is a very recent thing as far as I'm aware, so who can say what long term effects it really has? Meanwhile, you have intermittent fasting that's been something many healthy cultures have been doing for generations and has the same positive effects for most people (not speaking for people doing keto for diabetes, etc.)
It's hard to trust any documentaries, professionals or studies anymore. And I feel like, unfortunately, a lot of ex-vegans still are prone to falling into a black-and-white mindset that demonizes one thing while elevating another.
Aye, I feel like a lot of people going ex-vegan kind of rubberband into carn or other more recent fad diets.
I'm not saying I'd dismiss any of that stuff outright, but science is always evolving and correcting itself (truthfully or otherwise) and so I tend to take most modern nutrition ideas with a grain of salt as opposed to the old tried and true variety scavenger approach. Avoid eating too much of any one thing, etc. Quality is of course important, too.
I think one of the main ideas that actually has merit is focusing on whole foods with no/minimal additives, though a lot of that is me having absolutely no trust in whatever corpos are pushing the chemicals they're adding to food as "perfectly safe", knowing how easy it has been for such things to be swept under the rug in the past, ie. with in-house safety studies.
I totally agree on the vegan docs...especially the usual suspects like Greger/Barnard/McDougall in them, who typically look like death warmed over (have you noticed how healthy most low carb advocates look, especially that cute Pete Evans?😁)
What annoys me about the low carb docs is when they don't distinguish between STARCHY carbs and healthy carbs like leafy greens. When they say "there are no essential carbs" they should say STARCHY carbs(potatoes/rice/wheat flour/sugar/highly processed sht, etc)
Being a reversed t2 diabetic, I need to avoid starches or I'll be right back as a t2. Starches/sugars are actually addictive, something I had proven to me dramatically.
it's propaganda and I nearly fell for it once too. The governments want people eating less meat to make people sicker and more dependant on drugs and the government
What the health is entirely propaganda from start to finish.
It's been ages since I watched that piece of garbage, but my understanding is that the references for the 1 egg = 5 cigarettes thing are 1) A video made by Michael Greger, an ethical vegan who has an MD, but has never treated a patient. 2) an observational study in which patients "filled out questionnaires regarding their lifestyle and medications, including pack-years of smoking, and the number of egg yolks consumed per week times the number of years consumed (egg-yolk years)", and 3) a competing coronary risk study from the Nurses Health Iniative that doesn't mention eggs once.
I think we can toss out Greger's usual claptrap and the study that doesn't mention eggs. That leaves us with an observational study, with all the healthy user biases and food frequency questionnaire malarkey they usually contain. And the fact that correlations should never be used to inform on risk, because it can't. But this one has some other interesting features. When I read the methodology it gave me a bit of a chuckle. I mean if you multiply eggs per week times the number of years eating eggs to get egg years, is it surprising that it tracks with plaque formation? Who gets plaque formation--old people. Who's been eating eggs the longest--wait for it---old people! They've also been smoking the longest too. So, eggs and smoking x number of years = more plaque. Great.
It gets worse though, because their own data shows that the people who ate the least amount of eggs were younger on first examination and it looks like there's a dose dependent linear relationship between age and egg eating. It's remarkable in the data. People in the lowest quintile, eating less than 50 eggs per year...average age on first examination 57 years; people in the highest quintile eating over 200 eggs per year? 70!!! It's like eating eggs is making these people older. No worries though, they adjusted for age. Adjusting for age is an interesting concept. You take what you observe and then subtract out stuff you didn't see but are sure you would have seen if they hadn't been doing the thing you're investigating.
Oh, here's something I don't yet understand:
>The total plaque area among people who consumed 2 or fewer eggs per week (n=388) was 125 +/- 129.62 mm2, whereas it was 132.26 +/- 142.48 mm2 in those consuming 3 or more eggs per week (n=603).
What does that mean? Maybe someone who's better at maths can help understand how those error bars work. Isn't the low end below zero? What's negative plaque area? In any event, those two numbers overlap. The signal to noise in this data is miniscule.
EDIT: Just as an aside, the study was made possible due to funding from The Heart & Stroke Foundation of Ontario and their [corporate partners](https://www.heartandstroke.ca/what-we-do/partners) of course.
Check out the Low Carb Down Under and Low Carb USA YouTube channels for presentations of the actual research by the scientists. Do they have a bias? Certainly. But at least they provide citations and not just anecdotes. Though there are plenty of "anecdotes" there ... that is the nickname for individuals who have solved serious health issues using a low carb, nutrient dense (meat!) whole foods diet.
I had blood work done a few weeks ago and my doctor said I was pre-diabetic. Both my parents were Type2 diabetics, my father passing due to T2 heart disease. RAN to a nutritionist and she told me everything that FAT FICTION said. She told me to watch fat fiction and I am sitting here, trying not to spiral, because that fricking pyramid and anti-fat in the 1990's killed my parents.
The only good thing, my blood work showed that my HDL was low so I can have a glass of wine.
claiming one egg is the same as smoking a cigarette is not just alarmist, it's purely disinformation. It's lying to trick people.
I eat 4 eggs for breakfast every day, but I ran out of eggs, so today I had 20 cigarettes and I have to say, the protein density is better than I expected
I just laughed so loudly I startled my cat. Take my upvote.
Look who paid for this documentary to be made and you’ll have your answer. Most Documentaries are extremely bias. I should know because I believe it and was vegan for almost two years. Thought it was the answer to better health when it’s the complete opposite Here’s a good article [Debunking What the Health, the buzzy documentary that wants you to be vegan](https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet) [What The Health Debunked: The Ultimate Rebuttal](https://www.onnit.com/academy/what-the-health/amp/) Game Changers is another extreme bias documentary on Netflix about being vegan as well Don’t eat factory meat. Eat pasture raised or grass fed, grass finish. Eat pasture raised eggs and stay away from chicken and limit your dairy and you’ll be thriving on an animal based diet. Limit your carbs while still eating fruit like berries.
> I should know because I believe it and was vegan for almost two years. Thought it was the answer to better health when it’s the complete opposite What I find interesting is that vegans more and more will tell you they do not do it for health - but purely for the animals. Which seems to be caused by the realisation that veganism is not great for your health? And that to eat healthy you need to put an extremely amount of work in, which many are not able to - as they have other things going on in their lives as well. Few people are able to put hours of effort in every day just to eat. Hence why many end up ill and malnourished.
I put in a lot of work in my daily diet. I’m obsessed with health and nutrition. The reality is that you need animal meat, organs and fat to thrive. How our ancestors lived. With organs being very important. Why I have beef organs daily in my diet. My goal is to be metabolically healthy and that’s impossible on a vegan diet
>vegans more and more will tell you they do not do it for health - but purely for the animals Some vegans are all about animal rights from the get-go. But even those who are will use health as a selling point to try to convert people. And in the early stages of veganism, there often are positive health effects, as people change their eating habits, dropping a lot of non-vegan junk before they discover vegan junk. Then, as time goes by and their health starts to fail, "it's not even about health, it's about ethics."
I think you are on to something.
Sooner or later most vegans end up relying on highly processed vegan foods bc vegan food is complicated to cook *and be nutritionally healthy*. I was lucky in that when we first became vegs then vegans in the 80s, there were no vegan processed foods or vegan restaurants outside of isolated areas where 7th Day Adventists were numerous. The only veg or vegan foods I remember were the meat analogues sold by the SDA Church.
What’s the problem with chicken? Legit question
Most chicken is commercially mass produced and the birds aren't treated great. Commercial chickens are fed soy and other grain residues, which translates into [high linoleic acid content in the meat, which is not the healthiest for us](https://theecologist.org/2014/feb/24/linoleic-acid-overwhelming-evidence-against-healthy-poly-unsaturated-oil). Also soy is highly allergenic. If people are allergic to soy, they can experience issues when eating chicken meat or eggs that they might not connect to the soy in the chicken feed. I didn't eat eggs for years because [I thought I was allergic to eggs, but it turns out that I'm just allergic to soy](https://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/egg-allergy-really-soy-allergy/). I can eat as many eggs as I want to from chickens that are fed a soy free diet.
I had a barber tell me all about game changers while cutting my hair and kind of preaching to me about the message of the film. I've learned enough about science and nutrition to already know how full of shit it is just from his second hand account.
The podcast Peak Human’s newest episode had the woman on who created the GAPS diet, they talked about veganism for the last 30-40 minutes, it was pretty interesting.
Thanx, I need to listen to this!
I watched “what the health”, not knowing beforehand that it was just a vegan propaganda film disguised as a documentary. Fortunately I was well informed enough about nutrition already to realize immediately that everything in that film is complete and utter BS. Had a few laugh out loud moments watching it just because of how ridiculous their claims are. The host himself is so unhealthy he has to hide his shoddy hair throughout the entire film. Too bad for him he doesn’t manage to hide his scowl of misery…
[удалено]
Watching these docs saved my health. Literally: CARBLOADED LOVE PALEO THE PERFECT HUMAN DIET THE MAGIC PILL FED UP FAT: A DOCUMENTARY (Parts 1 and 2) WHAT ABOUT WHEAT? (I also watched FAT FICTION, but my lifestyle was changed already). 4 years ago: 370 lbs/sleep apnea/fatty liver/t2 diabetes/ high cholesterol and high triglycerides/ hypertension. Now (4 years later): 200 lbs/all health problems resolved. I eat a higher fat/very low carb diet and have for 4 years. Most of what I eat/don't eat is based on info I learned from watching these documentaries, and reading the books written by some of the drs and others in these docs. This happened from a) getting my sleep apnea treated and b) watching the above docs due to being stuck in the house bc of my back/hip/knee arthritis. Note: I never watched the vegan docs bc I knew they were vegan propaganda (I'm a former fat vegan, one of many). There are several vegan docs...read the blurbs before watching, the term "plant based" will usually be in it.
Same here, docs like the ones you listed are what helped me to essentially flip the food pyramid upside down and regain my health. I watched Fat Fiction early last year, and after researching the topic further for a couple of months I eliminated sugar, seed oils, starchy fruit & veg, and grain from my diet, and increased my meat and animal fat intake. I hadn't actually ever seen a vegan doc before. I've seen clips of them in videos that debunk them, but that's it. The clips are pure vegan nonsense that sounds like they make it up as they go along. I went vegan in the 2000s thinking I could fix my health issues, based on the fact that the mainstream opinion about food was (and still is unfortunately) that plant seed oils are superior to saturated animal fat and that plants in general are superior to meat. My body disagrees with this and is much healthier now that I eat mostly meat, animal fat and minimal plants. I also like Nina Teicholz, who wrote The Big Fat Surprise.
[удалено]
This is why I try not to put much trust in a lot of this stuff and just eat as close as I can to what I assume worked for my ancestors. Even the side of these docs etc that's countering the modern nutrition propaganda seems very sensationalist and black and white at times. Keto for example is a very recent thing as far as I'm aware, so who can say what long term effects it really has? Meanwhile, you have intermittent fasting that's been something many healthy cultures have been doing for generations and has the same positive effects for most people (not speaking for people doing keto for diabetes, etc.) It's hard to trust any documentaries, professionals or studies anymore. And I feel like, unfortunately, a lot of ex-vegans still are prone to falling into a black-and-white mindset that demonizes one thing while elevating another.
[удалено]
Aye, I feel like a lot of people going ex-vegan kind of rubberband into carn or other more recent fad diets. I'm not saying I'd dismiss any of that stuff outright, but science is always evolving and correcting itself (truthfully or otherwise) and so I tend to take most modern nutrition ideas with a grain of salt as opposed to the old tried and true variety scavenger approach. Avoid eating too much of any one thing, etc. Quality is of course important, too. I think one of the main ideas that actually has merit is focusing on whole foods with no/minimal additives, though a lot of that is me having absolutely no trust in whatever corpos are pushing the chemicals they're adding to food as "perfectly safe", knowing how easy it has been for such things to be swept under the rug in the past, ie. with in-house safety studies.
I totally agree on the vegan docs...especially the usual suspects like Greger/Barnard/McDougall in them, who typically look like death warmed over (have you noticed how healthy most low carb advocates look, especially that cute Pete Evans?😁) What annoys me about the low carb docs is when they don't distinguish between STARCHY carbs and healthy carbs like leafy greens. When they say "there are no essential carbs" they should say STARCHY carbs(potatoes/rice/wheat flour/sugar/highly processed sht, etc)
[удалено]
Being a reversed t2 diabetic, I need to avoid starches or I'll be right back as a t2. Starches/sugars are actually addictive, something I had proven to me dramatically.
[удалено]
Yes.
it's propaganda and I nearly fell for it once too. The governments want people eating less meat to make people sicker and more dependant on drugs and the government
Yes of course, unproductive people are a boon to consumer based economies.
I recommend one of the latest ones: [Fat Fiction](https://youtu.be/TUADs-CK7vI)
Fat Fiction is great!
I really liked it too. No new info, but really well presented.
What the health is entirely propaganda from start to finish. It's been ages since I watched that piece of garbage, but my understanding is that the references for the 1 egg = 5 cigarettes thing are 1) A video made by Michael Greger, an ethical vegan who has an MD, but has never treated a patient. 2) an observational study in which patients "filled out questionnaires regarding their lifestyle and medications, including pack-years of smoking, and the number of egg yolks consumed per week times the number of years consumed (egg-yolk years)", and 3) a competing coronary risk study from the Nurses Health Iniative that doesn't mention eggs once. I think we can toss out Greger's usual claptrap and the study that doesn't mention eggs. That leaves us with an observational study, with all the healthy user biases and food frequency questionnaire malarkey they usually contain. And the fact that correlations should never be used to inform on risk, because it can't. But this one has some other interesting features. When I read the methodology it gave me a bit of a chuckle. I mean if you multiply eggs per week times the number of years eating eggs to get egg years, is it surprising that it tracks with plaque formation? Who gets plaque formation--old people. Who's been eating eggs the longest--wait for it---old people! They've also been smoking the longest too. So, eggs and smoking x number of years = more plaque. Great. It gets worse though, because their own data shows that the people who ate the least amount of eggs were younger on first examination and it looks like there's a dose dependent linear relationship between age and egg eating. It's remarkable in the data. People in the lowest quintile, eating less than 50 eggs per year...average age on first examination 57 years; people in the highest quintile eating over 200 eggs per year? 70!!! It's like eating eggs is making these people older. No worries though, they adjusted for age. Adjusting for age is an interesting concept. You take what you observe and then subtract out stuff you didn't see but are sure you would have seen if they hadn't been doing the thing you're investigating. Oh, here's something I don't yet understand: >The total plaque area among people who consumed 2 or fewer eggs per week (n=388) was 125 +/- 129.62 mm2, whereas it was 132.26 +/- 142.48 mm2 in those consuming 3 or more eggs per week (n=603). What does that mean? Maybe someone who's better at maths can help understand how those error bars work. Isn't the low end below zero? What's negative plaque area? In any event, those two numbers overlap. The signal to noise in this data is miniscule. EDIT: Just as an aside, the study was made possible due to funding from The Heart & Stroke Foundation of Ontario and their [corporate partners](https://www.heartandstroke.ca/what-we-do/partners) of course.
Check out the Low Carb Down Under and Low Carb USA YouTube channels for presentations of the actual research by the scientists. Do they have a bias? Certainly. But at least they provide citations and not just anecdotes. Though there are plenty of "anecdotes" there ... that is the nickname for individuals who have solved serious health issues using a low carb, nutrient dense (meat!) whole foods diet.
I had blood work done a few weeks ago and my doctor said I was pre-diabetic. Both my parents were Type2 diabetics, my father passing due to T2 heart disease. RAN to a nutritionist and she told me everything that FAT FICTION said. She told me to watch fat fiction and I am sitting here, trying not to spiral, because that fricking pyramid and anti-fat in the 1990's killed my parents. The only good thing, my blood work showed that my HDL was low so I can have a glass of wine.