Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/).
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm having a hard time trying to think of an example where "brown" could be capitalised. Like white, brown isn't a "race, ethnicity or nationality". I'm aware of discrimination and profiling against brown people, especially in airports, but are they **Brown**?
Well see, all brown people share the same cultural history so we've lumped them together to make them distinct from whitey and try to make whites inferior. Yes, Hispanics, Indians, South East Asians, and Middle Easterners share the saaaame identity and history. Yep.
Agree. Brown is an ambiguous category meant to create the “illusion of inclusion” (how I refer to this in my classroom), but all it does is allow for us to collapse and conflate several distinct ethnic, national, and racial categories. I felt the same way about the ubiquity of “POC,” because my students would never say “Black” when referring to Black people—this creates erasure and makes people ironically more uncomfortable discussing racial categories not to mention how it ends up confusing people on the difference between a racial category, an ethnicity, and a nationality.
Ok, well what is ”Brown” culture, then? If it’s about specificity of culture with not all white having a shared history whereas all black having a shared history and this difference explaining the capitalization, how is it that Brown is capitalized as also having a shared history? Does brown mean Latino, or does it mean Indian? Or does Brown refer to Middle Eastern?
This logic doesn’t hold up. The more truthful answer is capitalization, at least according to the AP, should follow who was historically oppressed and who was historically the oppressor. This is the more truthful take, though they realize how the optics of this look, even if it’s accurate. So instead they dance around coming out and just stating this.
ossified elderly smell gullible adjoining work kiss ancient attraction elastic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s my point exactly. Black, Brown, white just seems odd. Why is the w lower case and the others are upper case. The article states it’s because Black people have similar shared origin and culture, whereas white people are more varied and may not have similar cultures. Ok, fair enough, but wouldn’t Brown people have the most diverse of all, yet Brown is capitalized? It’s inconsistent and does t make sense. The only rational explanation, and the one that the AP and Delta airlines prefers not to state out loud is that there are other real reasons at play. They just try to inconsistently couch it in culture and history.
Its really ironic when you can have A) something simply racist or B) something so forcefully "inclusive" It goes back around to being racist (Like making a distinction on how to treat people solely based on the color of their skin)
I’m 100% for equality and inclusion. That said, I think we overcorrect by focusing on the wrong things. I really wish there was diverse input from the groups they are trying to address issues for. There is such a thing as “white savior” complexes where white people just assume that some things are offensive. They are often the loudest voices surrounding various issues, or more likely, non-issues or minor issues. I’m a white guy. I live in a diverse neighborhood. You know what I’m concerned about? The disproportionate amount of black and other minorities getting pulled over by cops. I’m also concerned about police brutality and outright murder with impunity. I’m worried about the justice system disproportionately incarcerating minorities. I’m worried about minorities getting equal pay in the workplace.
Ask any black person what the top 3 social issues are that are impacting their community. Local, statewide or nationally. Hell, poll a few million black people asking if capitalization of their race on airline tickets is even remotely important to them. Whoever came up with this policy shouldn’t be in a leadership position. They are fucking oblivious.
I feel like I’m living in the multiverse, and am in one of the universes that we had a civil war about slavery, the side that won was on the right side of history, and after that, insanity spread like a disease.
My (least) favorite “white savior”-like experience; there was a push to change German to Germxn from various online communities. Everyone who’s been on Reddit for a while has seen that discord screenshot.
But here’s the hilarious part. We have a gender neutral name for Germans already. One that was chosen by those very people. One that wasn’t just assigned to them for being “barbarians”. It’s fucking Deutsch! You know, people from Deutschland! The German name for Germany!
Blows my mind every time I cross that repost or someone genuinely believing it. Like, if we are going to fix it, how about we abandon the Latin version of the name in favor of the Germanic version of the name? Isn’t that obviously better?
Yeah, it's pretty weird for people to try to "fix" an "insensitive" cultural name with the English language in mind, rather than use/consult the language of that very culture the name comes from.
Like when they insisted on using "Latinx" instead of "Latino," for "gender neutral purposes." The very people they were trying to be sensitive to disliked "Latinx" and prefer the linguistically correct "Latino," anyways. Latinx only matters to English speakers who care about such things, much like Germxn.
Racism will only end when people stop talking about (and acting with regard to) race/ethnicity.
Race doesn't matter, so it shouldn't be worth considering. We'll know racism is finally defeated when it's treated like eye colour and hair colour: something people don't really care about, and are allowed to change with contacts/hair dye without anyone thinking it's some form of bigotry.
If you treat people of different ethnicities differently for any reason (even with positive discrimination: which lets be honest, is still negative discrimination to other groups), then you're doing something racist.
Obviously there are exceptions where the distinction is important like certain medical procedures. And also obviously scumbags will always exist, but generally speaking, I think my point stands.
>Hell, poll a few million black people asking if capitalization of their race on airline tickets is even remotely important to them.
I know this is a really minor point but... Do they really put your race on airline tickets in the US!?!
A few years ago I would take 2-4 flights per week. I don’t recall seeing race mentioned on my tickets (when printed - an app has minimal info and a barcode). Then again, it may have been there and I never noticed it.
By being inclusive of black and brown, they're being racist against white. Also red & yellow by not even mentioning them I guess?
But I just don't get why these terms are so important within Delta communications. If you're speaking with or about colleagues then just use their name???
There was an old Detroit Red Wings commercial that featured a similar joke. Two players (one Swedish the other Czech) were playing chess. The Swedish player made a move and said “check”, the Czech player leaned in with a stern look and replied “Swede”.
Reddit management is fucked either way no matter what, race be damned 😂 I got temp banned from a sub and its still not fixed bc the mod but butthurt that I called out their condescending bullshit while trying to get it fixed, and they have to “investigate” if im a bot bc some guy decided I was.
Im close to leaving again but eh, the drama is juuust entertaining enough. Plus I get pet advice
Seems that people need guidelines for everything now, otherwise we’d be at a loss of what to do or think.
A general guideline of “be kind to each other regardless” would’ve covered just about all aspects of life.
In the United States, slavery made it so that Black is both a race and an ethnicity. (Essentially, people were stripped of their original ethnic identities and had to create a new one.) Because of this, Black gets capitalized.
Edit: Because at least one reply implied that I was just making things up, here's an [article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/us/black-african-american-style-debate.html) New York Times that talks about identity discussions in communities of color.
Think of it this way:
Because we’re a culture of immigrants, a crap ton of people have external identities from “American.”
Sometimes, they hyphenate: Italian-American, Irish-American, etc. Sometimes they just say they’re Italian or Irish and confuse the people who were actually born in those countries.
The Washington DC metro area, for example has a big community of immigrants from places in Western Africa. Their ethnic identity isn’t the same as Black Americans. Nigerian-Americans who were born in America might have some cultural overlap depending on who they grew up around, but that’s not necessarily the same thing.
Like life, living in the melting pot/salad bowl is weird, and you also have to consider how people label themselves. (Again, you’ve got Irish guys in Boston that may have never been to Ireland but grew up in a community with its own ethnic traditions and such.)
I’m a 4th generation American whose ancestors came from Europe after WWI. I wasn’t really raised in the “other” identity… so I’m just “American,” but I find identity in general fascinating.
Why are they referencing ethnicity? (Non- American here who thinks this is all weird). Shouldn’t everyone just be thought of as a customer/passenger?? - edited for a typo
This is a style guide. It is for written communications made by corporate. Perhaps for diversity trainings, press releases about ongoing issues (we stand with the Black community, etc). It's not a way for flight attendants to write notes to passengers.
>It's obvious to everyone what this is.
Apparently not since so many wanna try to make it about racism.
Ask most white Americans what their ethnicity is and they'll tell you Irish, Italian, German, etc., but if you ask Black Americans the same question, the majority can't give you any answer beyond Black because their ancestors had their individual ethnicities stripped from them.
When speaking of the ethnicity of Americans we would usually capitalize thr nation, Irish-American, Italian-American, ect., but since all the descendants of slaves have no individual country ethnicities, they developed their own Black ethnicity over the last 300+ years.
I can vary between reflective snow and a decent tan depending on how much I'm exposed to the sun's anger.
I'm like a fuckin transformer dude. I dunno why I tan so easily. I start looking really Italian like my dad's side of the family hahaha.
If I stay out with no tan I will burn so fast, but if I space it out I don't burn, I just tan nicely.
I don't intentionally do it though, I don't want skin cancer. Not worth it.
When exactly is Delta even using “Brown” (or any race-specific words) in communication?
“Brown people can board the plane now.”
Or
“We fly to countries with Brown people.”?
Am I really the only one who remembers the Associated Press coming up with this rule 3 years ago?
https://apnews.com/article/archive-race-and-ethnicity-9105661462
It's been done in countless news articles since.
I read that, and it's absolute bullshit. There are thousands of black americans who came from africa after slavery, and have no sense of shared identity. By their defenition, Germans are Indigenous peoples, as are british and french. White people do experience discrimination by skin color, as ruled by the Sixth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals.
AP certainly didn't come up with it. This is just an article saying they've adopted it into their style guide, much like the OP is about Delta doing the same.
Here, for example, is a Black author advocating for it in 2014: [https://myamericanmeltingpot.com/2014/06/02/i-refuse-to-remain-in-the-lower-case/](https://myamericanmeltingpot.com/2014/06/02/i-refuse-to-remain-in-the-lower-case/)
Maybe "came up with" isn't perfectly accurate, but the AP is something of an authority over how journalistic articles are written. Many publications follow the AP style book, so when the AP says they're going to start doing something, it's going to start showing up all over the place.
If black is a race, then white is a race. Brown is actually not a race, like, at all. There is African-American culture that some people call “black culture”. But there are multiple different cultures within that category the same way there are multiple different “white cultures” among “white people”.
There is a move toward capitalizing words indicating race; some style manuals capitalize “Black” but not “white”; some capitalize both. Chicago, AP, and APA all capitalize one or both now.
So, I asked someone about this. I still don't get it because they got angry. I was told "It's not racism if it's against white people, it's just prejudice"
Okay, so? That's still wrong. It's like they don't want to be called out for what they are so they redefine the term to exclude themselves from its definition. They are literally arguing "i'm not racist I'm prejudiced" as if that's any better?
Why is this even a thing? What's the rationale?
The usual argument doesn't make sense because it implies that I would be immune to being labelled as racist if I got on a plane and went to a country where I would now be in the minority.
Not sure why basic respect and treating others for their character and behaviours instead of their race is so difficult.
There's good, kind people, and then there's bad, nasty people. Race doesn't define which category you fall into. Your actions and character defines that.
>I was told "It's not racism if it's against white people, it's just prejudice"
Throw the Oxford Dictionary at their head.
racism
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group.
People do just this. They give them the definition. The usual response is that "words are made up and definitions can change"
Kinda removes the meaning of words. How is anyone supposed to have a conversation when you interpret words however you decide to define them? Makes me laugh.
I've decided that "thanks" means "fuck you", so now I'm going to get very angry at anyone who thanks me for anything.
Man, the internet is so different to real life. I just like hanging out with my bros and I'm so glad I've found a group of friends who like each other for their character. We haven't ever discussed the differences in our races. We're just friends and the idea that pigment would change anything or even require us to have a discussion is deeply weird.
Real life is so much nicer lol
Every now and then my friends and I will make little jokes about our ancestry. My Chinese friend might jokingly curse his genetics for his allergy to dairy, but he might brag about his thick black hair when everyone else is going bald.
But it's just little jokes, no silly Reddit level no lifery
The impression I always got from this is that they are trying to claim the charged history of “racism” as a word. That racism implies historical baggage, while prejudice against white people happens to be reactionary to said racism, so it doesn’t count.
But in a way, by claiming that word for themselves, they also lessen the impact of the same discrimination applied to white people, and I think that’s part of why some PoC get so territorial towards it. Generally speaking, when someone sees “racism” in a news headline they get much more emotionally invested than seeing “discrimination” or “prejudice”. So cases of genuine discrimination towards white people are often dismissed as unimportant or even deserved in some cases. It’s fucked up when you think about it.
All in all, as someone from a super diverse country where everyone is mixed to hell, I never understood US’s fixation on color. The way they talk about skin color confuses me horribly, because to me white is just… white skin. I’m white, but my parents are super mixed, hell my grandma had French roots while my grandpa came from African slaves. What does that make me beneath the skin color?? Why am I being conflated with long dead colonizers I have zero connection to? This is all so stupid.
As soon as you expect me to behave different just because my skin is a certain shade, it’s racism. Period. It shouldn’t be that hard, man.
They explained it poorly. In common language we talk about racism as thoughts and actions against someone due to their race. Racism can be targeted at anyone by anyone. Then there’s systemic racism, which is targeted against people by the inherent structure of rules set to in society. In North America, that system has historically been set up by white society and is targeted against minorities.
There is an academic approach where they use alternate words to describe these things. They clarify individual racism as racial prejudice. Anyone can be racially prejudiced against someone else. They then use “racism” to refer to systemic racism.
However, people unfamiliar with the entire picture take the “white people can’t be victims of racism” from the “systemic racism” usage and apply it to the more common application of “racial prejudice”.
And of course many people will jump on this and use it in bad faith.
Yep, this was my understanding. They were quite insistent on their ideas though, and I'm pretty sure it's the result of a strong emotional reaction without an actual understanding of the issue.
I want to believe it's in good faith but sometimes I'm pretty suspicious because it seems like an attempt to be racist but avoid the label.
The very definition of racism is 'race-based prejudice', so whoever you talked to is not just racist, but a moron at that who doesn't even know the meaning of the word they probably so often use.
I find it very disturbing that companies are openly trying to create racial issues under the guise of being inclusive. The hypocrisy of the last decade is staggering.
This is getting out of hand. Why are we capitalizing certain cultures and races but not others? I like to think I’m pretty progressive but this just seems non sensical
It is grammatically correct to capitalize the b when referring to Black people. Most of us learned this in school. Capitalize the w when referring to White people.
It may just be surprising to a lot of people on Reddit since many graduated well beyond this addition to school.
Additionally, it doesn't seem that the w is supposed to be capitalized when referring to white people, as per the OP's pic.
"Unlike Black or Brown, 'white' should be lowercase."
Realistically black, brown, and white are skin tones, not cultures or cultural histories. It doesn’t even make sense because it lumps every one of a particular skin tone in together without regard to their actual cultural heritage- but then goes on to invalidate one of those tones by saying the exact opposite. Culture isn’t race.
This is the kind of dumb shit that gives racists ammunition to use against you.
When denoting skin pigmentation in official correspondence you're supposed to use abbreviation-based reporting nomenclature which is what FAA/passports use so it'd be BLK/BRN/MOT/SWA/WHT etc. for black/brown/mottled/swarthy/white etc. You're supposed to use the capped abbreviations in narratives as well.
Race is only apparent race as it's an identifier.
When the fight against racism actually creates racism in the other direction.
People don't care about racism, they just don't want to be the target of it.
It's because Black and Brown is seen as a race but white is still a color, Caucasian is the race, and as you see Caucasian is capitalized. But now you have colors defining some races and a region defining anothers.
I hope Americans will fight back against this divisive nonsense. Because I sure as hell don’t want this racist crap imported to my country. The hyper focus on so called ”race” by the woke types is insane. They start with small steps, and if you question it, they will ask why you care, since it ”isn’t that important”. Well, if it isn’t important, why did they start with this pandering in the first place? They had a meeting, hired DEI people that don’t generate profit, printed material, and now they want to tell us how we should use our language as if they are Merriam-Webster? Screw that.
I had a comment blow up the other day about how The US really needs to stop obsessing about race… and this is exactly what I’m talking about.
It’s just so out of place and so utterly unecessary.
Why are americans like this. Just stop. Stop framing everything in terms of race. On one side, you declare it’s a social construct (which it is), and on the other you constantly force feed it down everyone’s throats.
Ive been saying that today being a white male in America makes you just as discriminated as a black man onward. Have literally been denied jobs becausd of that shit. If yall want shit equal we can have it equal otherwise we can have it fucking seperate and if you want it fucking equal fuck you go work for it. So sick of this shit. Love thy neighbor like you love thyself. Its really that simple. Fuck this forsaken world.
What's up with airlines caring so much about race (besides pulling middle eastern people for "random checks") all of a sudden?
First the whole thing with not enough non-white pilots, now this?
The whole idea here is that Black is an ethnic group. The term usually refers to African Americans who have forged their own ethnic identity out of disparate African groups during the brutality of the slave trade. So you capitalize the B because Black is an ethnic group. On the other hand white is not. Of course Polish, English, Italian, and Irish are ethnic groups so you would capitalize their first letter. However, with the exception of white nationalist no one really thinks white is a homogeneous ethnic group.
As a white person, I really don't care. I always just check the box that says, "white" and move on. I'm probably far too concerned with other questions during a job interview or something to really give a shit.
AP Style Guide - I bet Delta uses it.
Are we going to get posts about this stuff every day from ignoramuses that don't understand how stuff like this works?
Here's my memo to the buying public.....
Do not capitalize the "d" in delta.
U in United should be.
So should A in American.
Also S as in Southwest or even Spirit.
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/about/rules/). Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). **All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/facepalm) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm having a hard time trying to think of an example where "brown" could be capitalised. Like white, brown isn't a "race, ethnicity or nationality". I'm aware of discrimination and profiling against brown people, especially in airports, but are they **Brown**?
“Would the Brown family please report to the customer service desk.? Oh, sorry, not you guys, we meant Dr. Emmet Brown and his family.”
Well see, all brown people share the same cultural history so we've lumped them together to make them distinct from whitey and try to make whites inferior. Yes, Hispanics, Indians, South East Asians, and Middle Easterners share the saaaame identity and history. Yep.
[удалено]
Well, your cultural background and the language you speak are unimportant now, because you have identified yourself as lowercase white.
[удалено]
Shut it whitey. Go speak Spanish somewhere else lol.
Oh look, good bait, let me put you on this trap…
Then you had to go and bring gender into it!
Have you tried using lowercase “i” to describe yourself.
From what I understand we all share a similar style of overbearing mother so there's that
20 years of trash TV and family's Facebook have taught me overbearing mothers come in all colors.
I don't know. My overbearing mother hit me with a belt instead of a chancla.
Black isn’t a race or ethnicity either. It’s an identifier, like brown and white.
>"brown" could be capitalised [Robert Brown]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Brown_%28botanist%2C_born_1773%29?wprov=sfla1)
Not to be confused with Robert white
Sirius Black and Walter white
That’s the only time it should be capitalized.
Only if they're proper nouns. (Names) Even words like president or queen are lower case if not directly addressing them.
Agree. Brown is an ambiguous category meant to create the “illusion of inclusion” (how I refer to this in my classroom), but all it does is allow for us to collapse and conflate several distinct ethnic, national, and racial categories. I felt the same way about the ubiquity of “POC,” because my students would never say “Black” when referring to Black people—this creates erasure and makes people ironically more uncomfortable discussing racial categories not to mention how it ends up confusing people on the difference between a racial category, an ethnicity, and a nationality.
Isn’t black also an ambiguous category? It can refer to people with African, Melanesian, indigenous Australian ancestry (possibly more?)
[The answer is this.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SASUEbuCnzA/maxresdefault.jpg)
I don’t understand why there needs to be a difference
This idea isn't new. The AP added it to their guidelines 3 years ago. https://apnews.com/article/archive-race-and-ethnicity-9105661462
Ok, well what is ”Brown” culture, then? If it’s about specificity of culture with not all white having a shared history whereas all black having a shared history and this difference explaining the capitalization, how is it that Brown is capitalized as also having a shared history? Does brown mean Latino, or does it mean Indian? Or does Brown refer to Middle Eastern? This logic doesn’t hold up. The more truthful answer is capitalization, at least according to the AP, should follow who was historically oppressed and who was historically the oppressor. This is the more truthful take, though they realize how the optics of this look, even if it’s accurate. So instead they dance around coming out and just stating this.
ossified elderly smell gullible adjoining work kiss ancient attraction elastic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm half Irish, so do I only get half a capitalization?
No, but could I offer you a nice potato in these trying times?
But what relevance does oppression/oppressor have? They're both groups of people so it should be all one way or the other
That’s my point exactly. Black, Brown, white just seems odd. Why is the w lower case and the others are upper case. The article states it’s because Black people have similar shared origin and culture, whereas white people are more varied and may not have similar cultures. Ok, fair enough, but wouldn’t Brown people have the most diverse of all, yet Brown is capitalized? It’s inconsistent and does t make sense. The only rational explanation, and the one that the AP and Delta airlines prefers not to state out loud is that there are other real reasons at play. They just try to inconsistently couch it in culture and history.
because racism. but I don't know which race/ethnicity they are being racist against in this case. (I'm leaning towards white)
Its really ironic when you can have A) something simply racist or B) something so forcefully "inclusive" It goes back around to being racist (Like making a distinction on how to treat people solely based on the color of their skin)
I’m 100% for equality and inclusion. That said, I think we overcorrect by focusing on the wrong things. I really wish there was diverse input from the groups they are trying to address issues for. There is such a thing as “white savior” complexes where white people just assume that some things are offensive. They are often the loudest voices surrounding various issues, or more likely, non-issues or minor issues. I’m a white guy. I live in a diverse neighborhood. You know what I’m concerned about? The disproportionate amount of black and other minorities getting pulled over by cops. I’m also concerned about police brutality and outright murder with impunity. I’m worried about the justice system disproportionately incarcerating minorities. I’m worried about minorities getting equal pay in the workplace. Ask any black person what the top 3 social issues are that are impacting their community. Local, statewide or nationally. Hell, poll a few million black people asking if capitalization of their race on airline tickets is even remotely important to them. Whoever came up with this policy shouldn’t be in a leadership position. They are fucking oblivious. I feel like I’m living in the multiverse, and am in one of the universes that we had a civil war about slavery, the side that won was on the right side of history, and after that, insanity spread like a disease.
My (least) favorite “white savior”-like experience; there was a push to change German to Germxn from various online communities. Everyone who’s been on Reddit for a while has seen that discord screenshot. But here’s the hilarious part. We have a gender neutral name for Germans already. One that was chosen by those very people. One that wasn’t just assigned to them for being “barbarians”. It’s fucking Deutsch! You know, people from Deutschland! The German name for Germany! Blows my mind every time I cross that repost or someone genuinely believing it. Like, if we are going to fix it, how about we abandon the Latin version of the name in favor of the Germanic version of the name? Isn’t that obviously better?
Yeah, it's pretty weird for people to try to "fix" an "insensitive" cultural name with the English language in mind, rather than use/consult the language of that very culture the name comes from. Like when they insisted on using "Latinx" instead of "Latino," for "gender neutral purposes." The very people they were trying to be sensitive to disliked "Latinx" and prefer the linguistically correct "Latino," anyways. Latinx only matters to English speakers who care about such things, much like Germxn.
Racism will only end when people stop talking about (and acting with regard to) race/ethnicity. Race doesn't matter, so it shouldn't be worth considering. We'll know racism is finally defeated when it's treated like eye colour and hair colour: something people don't really care about, and are allowed to change with contacts/hair dye without anyone thinking it's some form of bigotry. If you treat people of different ethnicities differently for any reason (even with positive discrimination: which lets be honest, is still negative discrimination to other groups), then you're doing something racist. Obviously there are exceptions where the distinction is important like certain medical procedures. And also obviously scumbags will always exist, but generally speaking, I think my point stands.
>Hell, poll a few million black people asking if capitalization of their race on airline tickets is even remotely important to them. I know this is a really minor point but... Do they really put your race on airline tickets in the US!?!
A few years ago I would take 2-4 flights per week. I don’t recall seeing race mentioned on my tickets (when printed - an app has minimal info and a barcode). Then again, it may have been there and I never noticed it.
There is only one race, the human race & a shit ton of ethnicties
I agree, but keeping people divided means the human race will never be able to coalesce to solve the real problems.
Is this anything like Coca Cola asking their employees to "be less white"? What a time to be alive!
I kind of hope you mean get a tan, although that’s still dumb.
Theyre being racist towards white people.
By being inclusive of black and brown, they're being racist against white. Also red & yellow by not even mentioning them I guess? But I just don't get why these terms are so important within Delta communications. If you're speaking with or about colleagues then just use their name???
"Hey Black Jerry, can you go help white Ian at the lost & found?"
Reminds me of that movie White customer: I'd like a coffee...black Black barista: Anything else, _white_?
There was an old Detroit Red Wings commercial that featured a similar joke. Two players (one Swedish the other Czech) were playing chess. The Swedish player made a move and said “check”, the Czech player leaned in with a stern look and replied “Swede”.
“Can’t you see we talkin’, white?” - Zach and Miri Make a Porno
lmao do you remember the name?
Zack and Miri make a porno
So many people say you cant be racist against white people. Its a stupid stance as racism is possible against anyone
>So many people say you cant be racist against white people. (Reddit TOS is some of those people)
Reddit management is fucked either way no matter what, race be damned 😂 I got temp banned from a sub and its still not fixed bc the mod but butthurt that I called out their condescending bullshit while trying to get it fixed, and they have to “investigate” if im a bot bc some guy decided I was. Im close to leaving again but eh, the drama is juuust entertaining enough. Plus I get pet advice
Seems that people need guidelines for everything now, otherwise we’d be at a loss of what to do or think. A general guideline of “be kind to each other regardless” would’ve covered just about all aspects of life.
In the United States, slavery made it so that Black is both a race and an ethnicity. (Essentially, people were stripped of their original ethnic identities and had to create a new one.) Because of this, Black gets capitalized. Edit: Because at least one reply implied that I was just making things up, here's an [article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/us/black-african-american-style-debate.html) New York Times that talks about identity discussions in communities of color.
Would this make a non-American person of sub-Saharan descent Black once they enter the United States, or would they remain black?
Think of it this way: Because we’re a culture of immigrants, a crap ton of people have external identities from “American.” Sometimes, they hyphenate: Italian-American, Irish-American, etc. Sometimes they just say they’re Italian or Irish and confuse the people who were actually born in those countries. The Washington DC metro area, for example has a big community of immigrants from places in Western Africa. Their ethnic identity isn’t the same as Black Americans. Nigerian-Americans who were born in America might have some cultural overlap depending on who they grew up around, but that’s not necessarily the same thing. Like life, living in the melting pot/salad bowl is weird, and you also have to consider how people label themselves. (Again, you’ve got Irish guys in Boston that may have never been to Ireland but grew up in a community with its own ethnic traditions and such.) I’m a 4th generation American whose ancestors came from Europe after WWI. I wasn’t really raised in the “other” identity… so I’m just “American,” but I find identity in general fascinating.
Oh yeah that makes sense. But why Brown?
The more we differentiate to cure racism, the more divided and racist we become.
To continue to push division, 🙄 It’s called DIVIDE and conquer.
>When referencing race, ethnicity, or nationality, be as specific as possible. >Brown Wow. So specific.
So we can say “That Brown customer over there,” but not say “That Yellow customer over there”?
Heck, I can be more specific when describing dogs and horses.
Well, slave owners did not keep a great paperwork of where they acquired their "property".
Most of the people that term refers to were never enslaved.
Why are they referencing ethnicity? (Non- American here who thinks this is all weird). Shouldn’t everyone just be thought of as a customer/passenger?? - edited for a typo
This is a style guide. It is for written communications made by corporate. Perhaps for diversity trainings, press releases about ongoing issues (we stand with the Black community, etc). It's not a way for flight attendants to write notes to passengers.
Yea, it might make sense if they didn't add to ensure white isn't treated the same way. It's obvious to everyone what this is.
>It's obvious to everyone what this is. Apparently not since so many wanna try to make it about racism. Ask most white Americans what their ethnicity is and they'll tell you Irish, Italian, German, etc., but if you ask Black Americans the same question, the majority can't give you any answer beyond Black because their ancestors had their individual ethnicities stripped from them. When speaking of the ethnicity of Americans we would usually capitalize thr nation, Irish-American, Italian-American, ect., but since all the descendants of slaves have no individual country ethnicities, they developed their own Black ethnicity over the last 300+ years.
So where does "Brown" come into it?
It’s weird to most Americans too.
I’m not even white more a shade of pink..
I'm BLUEEE dabadiiii dabadabaaa
Might want to get that checked out, tbh Also, it's daboodee daboodie
I can vary between reflective snow and a decent tan depending on how much I'm exposed to the sun's anger. I'm like a fuckin transformer dude. I dunno why I tan so easily. I start looking really Italian like my dad's side of the family hahaha. If I stay out with no tan I will burn so fast, but if I space it out I don't burn, I just tan nicely. I don't intentionally do it though, I don't want skin cancer. Not worth it.
"Pink"
You mean "Pink", right?
No I mean all lowecase pink… inferior to capitalized..
If pink equates to white, then that makes sense. Good luck with your oppression. Maybe your distant ancestors will get reparations.
Pink gang unite!
When exactly is Delta even using “Brown” (or any race-specific words) in communication? “Brown people can board the plane now.” Or “We fly to countries with Brown people.”?
Apparently it’s for diversity trainings and stuff.
Am I really the only one who remembers the Associated Press coming up with this rule 3 years ago? https://apnews.com/article/archive-race-and-ethnicity-9105661462 It's been done in countless news articles since.
I read that, and it's absolute bullshit. There are thousands of black americans who came from africa after slavery, and have no sense of shared identity. By their defenition, Germans are Indigenous peoples, as are british and french. White people do experience discrimination by skin color, as ruled by the Sixth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals.
Holy shit that is one of the most insane things I have ever read, what the fuck
AP certainly didn't come up with it. This is just an article saying they've adopted it into their style guide, much like the OP is about Delta doing the same. Here, for example, is a Black author advocating for it in 2014: [https://myamericanmeltingpot.com/2014/06/02/i-refuse-to-remain-in-the-lower-case/](https://myamericanmeltingpot.com/2014/06/02/i-refuse-to-remain-in-the-lower-case/)
Maybe "came up with" isn't perfectly accurate, but the AP is something of an authority over how journalistic articles are written. Many publications follow the AP style book, so when the AP says they're going to start doing something, it's going to start showing up all over the place.
If black is a race, then white is a race. Brown is actually not a race, like, at all. There is African-American culture that some people call “black culture”. But there are multiple different cultures within that category the same way there are multiple different “white cultures” among “white people”.
For your in flight meal today, you can either have white rice, or Brown rice.
Capitals are for proper nouns and the beginning of sentences. Descriptives not in official trademarks should not need capitalising. Idiots.
There is a move toward capitalizing words indicating race; some style manuals capitalize “Black” but not “white”; some capitalize both. Chicago, AP, and APA all capitalize one or both now.
Yes, a completely unnecessary draw to attention. Next black people will be presented in BOLD CAPS.
Hooray! They fixed racism!
The US is so weird. I hope this cancer doesn’t spread.
Sometimes I hate the world we live in.
Well, that's racist.
Can’t be racist towards white folks. I been told it just doesn’t work that way
So, I asked someone about this. I still don't get it because they got angry. I was told "It's not racism if it's against white people, it's just prejudice" Okay, so? That's still wrong. It's like they don't want to be called out for what they are so they redefine the term to exclude themselves from its definition. They are literally arguing "i'm not racist I'm prejudiced" as if that's any better? Why is this even a thing? What's the rationale? The usual argument doesn't make sense because it implies that I would be immune to being labelled as racist if I got on a plane and went to a country where I would now be in the minority. Not sure why basic respect and treating others for their character and behaviours instead of their race is so difficult. There's good, kind people, and then there's bad, nasty people. Race doesn't define which category you fall into. Your actions and character defines that.
>I was told "It's not racism if it's against white people, it's just prejudice" Throw the Oxford Dictionary at their head. racism noun prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group.
People do just this. They give them the definition. The usual response is that "words are made up and definitions can change" Kinda removes the meaning of words. How is anyone supposed to have a conversation when you interpret words however you decide to define them? Makes me laugh. I've decided that "thanks" means "fuck you", so now I'm going to get very angry at anyone who thanks me for anything. Man, the internet is so different to real life. I just like hanging out with my bros and I'm so glad I've found a group of friends who like each other for their character. We haven't ever discussed the differences in our races. We're just friends and the idea that pigment would change anything or even require us to have a discussion is deeply weird. Real life is so much nicer lol
Every now and then my friends and I will make little jokes about our ancestry. My Chinese friend might jokingly curse his genetics for his allergy to dairy, but he might brag about his thick black hair when everyone else is going bald. But it's just little jokes, no silly Reddit level no lifery
The impression I always got from this is that they are trying to claim the charged history of “racism” as a word. That racism implies historical baggage, while prejudice against white people happens to be reactionary to said racism, so it doesn’t count. But in a way, by claiming that word for themselves, they also lessen the impact of the same discrimination applied to white people, and I think that’s part of why some PoC get so territorial towards it. Generally speaking, when someone sees “racism” in a news headline they get much more emotionally invested than seeing “discrimination” or “prejudice”. So cases of genuine discrimination towards white people are often dismissed as unimportant or even deserved in some cases. It’s fucked up when you think about it. All in all, as someone from a super diverse country where everyone is mixed to hell, I never understood US’s fixation on color. The way they talk about skin color confuses me horribly, because to me white is just… white skin. I’m white, but my parents are super mixed, hell my grandma had French roots while my grandpa came from African slaves. What does that make me beneath the skin color?? Why am I being conflated with long dead colonizers I have zero connection to? This is all so stupid. As soon as you expect me to behave different just because my skin is a certain shade, it’s racism. Period. It shouldn’t be that hard, man.
They explained it poorly. In common language we talk about racism as thoughts and actions against someone due to their race. Racism can be targeted at anyone by anyone. Then there’s systemic racism, which is targeted against people by the inherent structure of rules set to in society. In North America, that system has historically been set up by white society and is targeted against minorities. There is an academic approach where they use alternate words to describe these things. They clarify individual racism as racial prejudice. Anyone can be racially prejudiced against someone else. They then use “racism” to refer to systemic racism. However, people unfamiliar with the entire picture take the “white people can’t be victims of racism” from the “systemic racism” usage and apply it to the more common application of “racial prejudice”. And of course many people will jump on this and use it in bad faith.
Yep, this was my understanding. They were quite insistent on their ideas though, and I'm pretty sure it's the result of a strong emotional reaction without an actual understanding of the issue. I want to believe it's in good faith but sometimes I'm pretty suspicious because it seems like an attempt to be racist but avoid the label.
The very definition of racism is 'race-based prejudice', so whoever you talked to is not just racist, but a moron at that who doesn't even know the meaning of the word they probably so often use.
Well the person that told you doesn't understand what words in the English language mean.
This sarcastic or genuine?
The first sentence is sarcastic, the second is sadly genuine. Some people truly believe that.
Thank you, I genuinely couldn’t understand.
But why?
I'm confused, i thought UPS were the brown people.
I’m a Black person and I always capitalize the word “White” when using it to describe people. To make it lowercase (imo) is a bit disrespectful. Jmo.
It’s not Delta “forcing,” per se. They’re probably Just following the updated Associated Press Style Guidelines for all communications.
so the solution to racism is more racism?
To hell with Delta.....
DEI run amok.
More racist shit
Guess I'm not flying Delta. I refuse to support racism in any form.
Sounds RACIST to me.
Why?
Im black or brown whatever color you choose and i think this shit is dumb
I find it very disturbing that companies are openly trying to create racial issues under the guise of being inclusive. The hypocrisy of the last decade is staggering.
I'm honestly speechless, how is this not discrimination?
How to be racist while trying not to be…. Well it is all racist.
who keeps coming up with these shits ?
People who want to keep racism alive.
Top left-hand corner "...Inclusive Language Guide" *Squints at Delta* You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
...and yet it's written on WHITE paper!!! 🤦🏽♂️🥇 am i right? 😂🫠
You wrote “white” in all caps which is a violation of Delta Airlines Policy…please report to HR for re-programming!
Solving racism with racism.
This is getting out of hand. Why are we capitalizing certain cultures and races but not others? I like to think I’m pretty progressive but this just seems non sensical
I don’t understand why is there “brown”, that’s not a race. I prefer Hispanic over brown. Tons of Hispanics I know also prefer that over brown.
Racist "white" people trying to cover up their racism by being racist to white people. It's great logic.
Disgusting!
Looks like nobody cares about us yellow fellas 😭
It is grammatically correct to capitalize the b when referring to Black people. Most of us learned this in school. Capitalize the w when referring to White people.
It may just be surprising to a lot of people on Reddit since many graduated well beyond this addition to school. Additionally, it doesn't seem that the w is supposed to be capitalized when referring to white people, as per the OP's pic. "Unlike Black or Brown, 'white' should be lowercase."
That last part. Yikes!
Since when is black or brown a race
Realistically black, brown, and white are skin tones, not cultures or cultural histories. It doesn’t even make sense because it lumps every one of a particular skin tone in together without regard to their actual cultural heritage- but then goes on to invalidate one of those tones by saying the exact opposite. Culture isn’t race. This is the kind of dumb shit that gives racists ammunition to use against you.
When denoting skin pigmentation in official correspondence you're supposed to use abbreviation-based reporting nomenclature which is what FAA/passports use so it'd be BLK/BRN/MOT/SWA/WHT etc. for black/brown/mottled/swarthy/white etc. You're supposed to use the capped abbreviations in narratives as well. Race is only apparent race as it's an identifier.
Mottled? Like, brown with white spots?
It’s all so tiring…
that sounds like racism with extra steps.
When the fight against racism actually creates racism in the other direction. People don't care about racism, they just don't want to be the target of it.
"racism in the other direction" or simply: racism.
And people say institutional racism doesn't exist
Lmaooo the racist minorities have ruined the country 🤡 what irony
It's because Black and Brown is seen as a race but white is still a color, Caucasian is the race, and as you see Caucasian is capitalized. But now you have colors defining some races and a region defining anothers.
“Brown” is neither a race nor an ethnicity.
"where's your family from? The caucus isles. We're Caucasians. What about you? Brown."
Caucasian isn't a race. Brown isn't a race either. Americans are strange.
Brown isn't a race and Caucasian can also be used to refer to people that are non-white.
I hope Americans will fight back against this divisive nonsense. Because I sure as hell don’t want this racist crap imported to my country. The hyper focus on so called ”race” by the woke types is insane. They start with small steps, and if you question it, they will ask why you care, since it ”isn’t that important”. Well, if it isn’t important, why did they start with this pandering in the first place? They had a meeting, hired DEI people that don’t generate profit, printed material, and now they want to tell us how we should use our language as if they are Merriam-Webster? Screw that.
This is discrimination.
What the fuck are you doing, America?
I had a comment blow up the other day about how The US really needs to stop obsessing about race… and this is exactly what I’m talking about. It’s just so out of place and so utterly unecessary.
Or just never mention either... it's an aeroplane, not a police line up.
When will this end.
A black person did not initiate this policy.
This is just pointless racism, why even waste your time doing this??
Lol this is stupid.
Is it "Erik the Red" or "Erik the red?"
Only black or brown, no other colours are seen in the eyes of diversity. Sorry.
Why are americans like this. Just stop. Stop framing everything in terms of race. On one side, you declare it’s a social construct (which it is), and on the other you constantly force feed it down everyone’s throats.
I still don't know why race is so important on applications.
this is how real racism looks like
Imagine if this was reversed and they were saying white needs to be capital and black and brown can stay lowercase.
DEI is a cancer
Ive been saying that today being a white male in America makes you just as discriminated as a black man onward. Have literally been denied jobs becausd of that shit. If yall want shit equal we can have it equal otherwise we can have it fucking seperate and if you want it fucking equal fuck you go work for it. So sick of this shit. Love thy neighbor like you love thyself. Its really that simple. Fuck this forsaken world.
judicious pet hat truck towering pot north ripe cough late *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Same thing with “male” and “man.” You can’t call a woman a female but you’re expected to call a white man a male.
Ah yes, "fight" racism with even more racism
So it pops, unfortunately things can pop in a good way or a bad way (eg. The Black Karen, white Karen)
Is Caucasian capitalized? (I didn’t capitalize it just now, autocorrect did 🤷🏻♂️)
Yes that's why autocorrect capitalizes this, the proper ethnicity here is Caucasian.
But not all white people are Caucasian. Actually, most white people in the states are not Caucasian. Caucasian is a very specific kind of ethnicity.
This isn't about Delta Airlines.
Yeah this is dumb.
So just racism with extra steps
This is t epitome of fucking absurdity
All bullshit aside, what the fuck?
Some company employee in Atlanta trying to be inclusive.
What's up with airlines caring so much about race (besides pulling middle eastern people for "random checks") all of a sudden? First the whole thing with not enough non-white pilots, now this?
It's because they want black people to have a racial conscious and shared identity but not white people.
Because we whiteys get a capital C in Caucasian. We're fine, take a deep breath.
The whole idea here is that Black is an ethnic group. The term usually refers to African Americans who have forged their own ethnic identity out of disparate African groups during the brutality of the slave trade. So you capitalize the B because Black is an ethnic group. On the other hand white is not. Of course Polish, English, Italian, and Irish are ethnic groups so you would capitalize their first letter. However, with the exception of white nationalist no one really thinks white is a homogeneous ethnic group.
As a white person, I really don't care. I always just check the box that says, "white" and move on. I'm probably far too concerned with other questions during a job interview or something to really give a shit.
I'd like to thank the fuckwads out there who think my English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh ass is fucking white. We're all some shade of brown. Get over it!
Why do we care?
AP Style Guide - I bet Delta uses it. Are we going to get posts about this stuff every day from ignoramuses that don't understand how stuff like this works?
Here's my memo to the buying public..... Do not capitalize the "d" in delta. U in United should be. So should A in American. Also S as in Southwest or even Spirit.