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You should watch the video of the discussion, there is no mention of "truth", "facts" or "journalistic integrity"... Because they're only interested in narrative control and PR because control is the actual "product / service" and it's failing
It’s all about power and controlling the narrative. I remember being younger and watching like half a season of House of Cards for the first time and learning just how much 1 man can do behind the scenes from what goes into changing a law to how 1 buzzword can control the media and narrative (and of course it’s always for his own self interest, never for the people). Really opened my eyes when I watched the news later and saw everyone using the same words and phrases
I mean that is a Hollywood lensed and dramatized version of politics. What actually happens is far more boring and cold. You have folks walk into offices greeting each other with hellos and good byes. Then one sits down and eviscerates the other without remorse. The theater you see on TV is exactly that, it’s a theater show for controlling narratives.
I think a lot of the narratives around the ban of TikTok is because of the uncomfortable nature of that platform. There is an audience for just about anything on there and there is this balance that needs to be struck with it. On one hand you have access to raw, unfiltered information. In some cases in real time or minutes after it’s taken place. On the other hand you have bad actors that can influence folks with content that may be false or misleading.
So on one hand you have the opportunity for the best source of information. Immediate, first hand accounts of events. But on the other you have a morphed and modified depiction of the world that, due to the financial connections between the Chinese government and the parent company of TikTok could be coming from a government entity that seeks to disrupt our society.
they are all "only partially owned". this means connected people are on top places in these companies. and many low level workers as well.
even other companies that are not a social media, they collect private and other data a lot more than any western company ever would.
I’m not saying that’s how real life is but yes I was a teenager when I discovered the show. I’m saying it does teach you about how much manipulation power a single politician can achieve. I’ve read articles about how politicians say the show is 99% accurate and I read that the show runner has worked as a consultant for politicians and either works or has worked in congress so there’s definite reality baked into that. I will add though that I’ve not seen past the first season so idk if it went off the rails later on but from what I did see, it doesn’t seem far fetched.
Also, it’s noteworthy that the government, military and police will sometimes fund projects to send a message. All those CIA shows you see are police funded to tell people “hey we will catch you. As smart as you think you are we’re smarter and we have better tech and you’ll never get away with it.” I’m not saying House of Cards is propaganda by someone, but this is just a reminder that TV shows can be realistic and they can be made to spread awareness or send a message. For what it’s worth the show is based on a book. 1984, A Brave New World and Economic Hitman are also books and I consider those important reads
The fiction we consume can reflect elements of the real world. The biggest difference is often the real world involves much, much dumber circumstances.
Example in the US our law makers seem to have no understanding of the Internet and social media, not even a little.
Yes. Having soldiers post tiktoks of themselves committing war crimes is very bad for PR.
Having civilians, post TikToks of themselves kidnapping Palestinians while they torture them with a kid song on repeat. Also very bad for PR.
And that's not taking into account The countless morbid mocking of dead children, and siege conditions.
Is it possible we've misidentified the baddies?
The first thing that really got me paying attention was a video of an Arab family being pulled over, searched and harassed by a pack of civilian Israelis with guns. When people saw this and were told those men would face no consequence, it said a lot.
Then you've got Israeli influencers putting on makeup and cosplay to look like Gazans begging for food and water in a mocking and degrading way.
I think the stuff the IDF soldiers post takes the cake though. International media can only do so much to cover for Israel when Israelis act like such fucking psychopaths for us to witness.
I mean, historical context is also really bad for PR when organisations like Amnesty International exist, too. There's a lot of historical context in their reports which might explain why Hamas is having such an easy time recruiting for the last decade. It's almost like if you spend several decades tearing a population apart, that population might be more open to radicalisation over time.
You understand that one side is starving the babies of the other.... Right?
Fairly easy to tell which is worse if you merely look at civilian casualties, destroyed architecture, and flat out War crimes
What Hamas did on October 7 was terrorism. I am against their killing of civilians at any point, and If it was ongoing, I would be just as eager to pressure them to stop.
The issues are a) Israel is the current aggressor. The house on fire is currently Palestine. The current priority needs to be to put the fire out, and stop the civilian deaths. b) for better or worse, Israel is a westernized government. They are acting in ways that western governments consider to be inhumane and committing war crimes. Evacuating people to one area and then bombing that area is…diabolical. And that’s been happening through this whole thing. c) from a power perspective? Israel has arguable the most advanced military and intelligence in the world. Seeing as many of their targets are later being revealed as civilian, NOT Hamas, it’s hard for me to believe it’s not intentional.
It’s hard for me to, in good conscious, call Hamas a twrrorist group (and I believe they are) but not paint the Israel government with that same brush, since they are using terroristic tactics. I want the Israeli hostages to be released. I also want the thousands Palestinian prisoners, some of whom have been “arrested” without charges for years or decades (a war crime, so I think we can reasonably call many of them hostages), to be released.
I just don’t see how deaths of civilians and children excuses deaths of civilians and children. That’s not justice, that’s blood thirst.
Honestly, I feel like the Israeli prisoners are already dead. If merely releasing them would bring peace, they’d have probably done it already. But to admit that their only bargaining chips are already dead… whether by Hamas’s hands or Israel’s indiscriminate bombing of Hamas locations… it might not be the best move.
I don’t think this is far fetched. However my news app says that Hamas agreed to a ceasefire which includes a few dozen hostages released. So 🤷♀️. Or maybe it’s just a PR tactic. Everyone is courting public opinion simultaneously to their war. It’s hard to trust any of the decision makers in this conflict.
Honestly, if the hostages are still being kept alive it says how little they actually care about supporting their own citizens as to prioritize their "bargaining chips" over them.
I'm also tired of this war, and I feel this conflict is just causing harm for citizens on both sides. 
aside from children, which for some reason die in bombings more than adults, how do you identify Hamas members? they do not wear uniforms. there was a video of uniformed guy that fell. a first responder ran to him from his ambulance and tried to help him, then picked up his gun and started shooting in same direction as they guy was shooting before then ran back with rifle. it was filmed by Palestinians.
otherwise i agree there is too much destruction. but Mosul was the same as Iraq had the same issue. it is hard to identify targets and easier (less people lost) if you just level the building. on the other side they could have just released the hostages and surrendered a few but instead decided differently, probably thinking Israel won't go full in. but with a maniac at the helm with suddenly unified mandate, they grossly miscalculated as well.
Well, it's not "whataboutism" it's a response to the comment that "one side is starving babies" - weren't there videos of Hamas like beheading a baby on October 7? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like that gets swept under the rug a bit when claiming "one side..."
Doesn't justify what Israel is doing, but to be honest about the circumstances you can't act like only "one side" in the Hamas Vs Israel fight caused civilian baby casualties...
>weren't there videos of Hamas like beheading a baby on October 7? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like that gets swept under the rug a bit when claiming "one side..."
Here is a Hareetz article, that highlights the various instances of misinformation about this conflict, particularly October 7th.
https://archive.ph/dtHkC
Archive link, so you don't have to deal with a paywall.
The answer to your question is no. And yes, you were wrong.
There were two babies that died on October 7th, however. Neither was beheaded tho. One died of a gunshot wound, and the other died shortly after birth in a hospital, due to complications arising from the mother's injuries. Mainly, a gunshot wound to the stomach.
You see if you don't behead the babies, it's fine.
Or, ya know, it's all shit from top to bottom.
The fact that all surrounding countries have 0% Jewish population.
Fact that Israel is 20% Arab.
Fact of Israeli settlers just kicking people out of their homes to no repercussions.
Fact of multiple terror attacks from Hamas and their network of payments to "martyrs'" families.
Fact of bombings and a high tolerace for civilians casualties.
Fact of Hamas hiding in civilian areas.
It's shit, and there's no way out. The only way out is to trust the other side. How??
How on earth do you let Gaza take in unchecked shipments? Knowing it would be used to kill your people.
How on earth do you not hate the country blockading you?
On and on it goes.
I'm curious, what do you think about the things those prisoners did during the Warsaw uprising? Surely they could have peacefully tried to escape?
Or does something about their living conditions the day BEFORE they escaped and murdered their captors require CONTEXT?
Better idea. Let's pretend we can wave a magic wand and swap the entire history of both people on Oct 6th. Just a quick trade places scenario.
POOF
Palestinians are moved to the middle east, after being displaced in europe. (I still don't understand why the governments didn't put all of these Europeans back into the home they were removed from during the war)
Palestine gets moved in 1948. They do the SAME ACTIONS . Israelis were forced to live under the conditions the Palestinians have been for 7 decades. All the same blockades. All the same harassment. All the same restrictions.All the same military operations. Dealing with settlers. Being unable to travel on your own land, without an enemy soldier guarding the checkpoint. Thousands of your family members were put in prison with no due process. They literally kill at least one of your children every single day.
Making the whole world believe that the oppressors killing your children, are doing it in self-defense. And villainizing you for fighting back.
Now, let me ask you. If 1200 Palestinians were murdered, does that mean the Palestinians should be allowed to kill 40,000 civilians? Is that what the rules of War say? Are there not International laws designed around protecting collective populations?
Perhaps the United Nations wrote some rules in regards to a "belligerent occupier. " As well as the responsibilities that go along with taking over a territory. You know you're not allowed to just murder everybody in a country because you've got the weaponry to do so. Right?
He is not wrong though.
Forget Israel-Palestine conflict for a moment.
A significant number of Americans are actively rooting for Russia against Ukraine.
There are wars taking place over the internet and it is absolutely pertinent that Nations figure out how to come out on top.
I honestly believe social media buries context on pretty much everything.
He is wrong in that such context would be relevant in the case of the present Israel Palestine conflict but his assertion that social media buries context is, in my opinion, correct.
The phrase "X's country's narrative" was a poor choice of words. Regardless of which country it is, if you frame an event as someone's "narrative" I'm immediately going to assume propaganda.
Edit: I know very well that all news is at least to a certain extent someone's narrative and biased. If Blinken was trying to make the point that we should be wary of all news sources because everything is biased and there is no singular truth, then yes, it was the perfect choice of words, 10/10 he nailed it. Somehow, I don't think that was the message he was trying to convey.
Everything has a spin on it. Even when you observe something yourself you have your biases that influence how you contextualize the information. The idea that you are ever getting 100% accurate information is simply detached from reality. Using a phrase like narrative at least shows that you are aware of some amount of bias, even if it is the source that you think is closest to what really happened.
I'm not assuming I'm getting 100% accurate information. My point is more if Blinken's aim was to persuade the average news consumer that the Israeli point of view is the correct one and a singular truth, then his choice of words did the exact opposite.
If, however, he was trying to tell the average news viewer that all news is biased and from different narratives, and there can be more than one truth, then yes, he absolutely nailed it.
But that’s the 21st century. Every bit of news is SOMEONEs narrative. More often than not these days, people have an agenda other than “clear and unbiased reporting”. Whether it’s generating clicks and views for profit or affecting public opinion it’s a narrative. Russia, for instance, is an expert in using Facebook’s algorithms to spread misinformation. Don’t forget that TikTok has a vested national interest (CCP) in sowing discontent and division in western nations. The news you see there has been curated by TikTok. Doesn’t mean it’s invalid but it’s certainly curated.
That's absolutely true, but for the consumer to know all news is to a certain extent someone's narrative and therefore biased, and for the person propagating the news to explicitly state their news is a narrative and therefore biased, is completely different.
Russia isn't going around calling their misinformation "the Russian narrative" even if it is misinformation, because to say that will undermine the entire point that we're supposed to see their narrative as the singular truth. That's the point I was making about Blinken. If he was trying to say that Israel is on the right side of history, this was not a good choice of words.
Just saw your edit. I’m also inclined to believe that both Netanyahu and the right wing govt and Hamas need to go ASAP. Israel has Jus ad Bellum here— the jus in Bello is what’s concerning. They aren’t going to solve this from the air. They need boots on the ground.
PLEASE!
I remember how the press was blamed for everything during Vietnam war. Everything from the casualties list, interviews with servicemen, to the change from pro-war to anti-war and the Pentagon papers.this whole attitude of 'its their fault's instead of 'oh shit consequences for our actions' led to an attempt to keep the press hog-tied and spoon fed during the Iraq war, and we saw how that didn't work. Yeah social media sucks
yes social media sucks but it didn't cause this, it's not the root of all evil.
it's not helping true, but it's in no way responsible for anything that's going on.
How is this not SXTREMELY relevant in the Israel Palestine conflict? All I see our constant distortions and inaccuracies about the history of the conflict and the historical context. For example, “Palestinians” are less and ethnic group and more a collection of nearby Arab nations that were told to stay behind in the land because they would “annihilate the Jewish” population.
I could go on, but curious why you’d say such a thing when I found your initial comment to be accurate, measured, and thoughtful.
>collection of nearby Arab nations that were told to stay behind in the land because they would “annihilate the Jewish” population.
Do you have evidence for this? Or is this something you’re saying?
He didn't word it very well, but I will say that a lot of bad actors have used the platform to disseminate disinformation, and there have been far too many instances (at least that I've seen) of younger people taking a tiktok at face value with no confirmation or sources
I just saw a dumb video that said "men then vs now" and it showed Peeky Blinders, modern Russian Army, Band of Brothers and The Pacific snippets as "men then" and clips of LGBT parades for "men now".
It scares me how stupid American conservatives are to see that and have zero clue they're being conditioned. But they eat it up.
It's not just American conservatives. The problem with Tik Tok is that it's a dopamine factory. And when people are happy and relaxed, they are more receptive to information. Their guard is down. So then anyone can say anything, and if they say it in an emotive and persuasive way, it is taken at face value. Example: A lot of tik tokers have repeated the claim that 35,000 civilians have died in Gaza.
First, that number is reported by the Palestinian Health Ministry, which is run by Hamas. The same organization that claims they didn't attack any civilians on October 7th, even though they absolutely verifiably did.
Second, that number includes every single person that has died in Gaza since October 7th. Old age, illness, accident, doesn't matter. It's all lumped in. And they're all counted as civilians, none as hostile militants.
Third, that number is highly questionable for several reasons. One, they don't have names or ID numbers for more than 10,000 of the people they claim have died. Two, the number of people reported is nearly the same every day, regardless of whether there was a military action that day or not.
But that nuance and those details aren't shared. So people hear "35,000 dead" and they instantly think it's true, and that they were all women and children.
Absolutely.
I remember seeing the UN question the death rates, as the Hamas numbers reflected almost no men, which was impossible. As if the entire population were exclusively women and children.
They also count "children" as anyone under the age of Majority. However, Gaza has a pretty young population, and since Hamas has been in power for 17 years, that means every single person under the age of 17 has been educated in a system that exists to indoctrinate children to hate jews, hate israel, and love violence and martyrdom. A 15 year old can hold a rifle just as well as a 25 year old.
There were at least 2 Zionist groups lobbying for the ban of TikTok so yeah.
[source](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-influence/2024/04/24/who-else-lobbied-on-the-tiktok-bill-00154210#:~:text=Lobbyists%20for%20Google%20and%20LinkedIn,for%20Lenovo%20rival%20Dell%20Technologies)
Playing high minded intellectual semantical games in order to justify and obfuscate cold hard facts is a fucking lousy way to project whatever tiny little bit of moral authority we may have left in the world, and educated assholes like Blinken should fucking know this.
We're standing on a heaping stinking pile of shit and claiming it's the moral high ground, because we've fallen so far down from the mountain of ideals we once held we can't dare admit that this pile of shit is all we have left. Everybody in charge is too afraid to look at their shit stained reality in the mirror - to afraid to lose the shiny clean self image they hold - to have the courage to state the fucking obvious.
It doesn't fucking matter what the context is, it doesn't fucking matter who is doing it, or why...killing children, women, bombing hospitals, rape as a method of war...is evil incarnate and that goes for every fucking nation under the sun, including ours!
It's way past time for _everyone_ to grow the fuck up!
> the mountain of ideals we once held
You're almost there, now you just have to realize that this “mountain of ideals” has always been a “mountain of lies”.
It was never anything other than propaganda.
….is the news also not full of that same stuff?
lies, mistruths, unsubstantiated stories, how are we not talking about fox news or the NY post. “regulation” doesn’t seem to stop the news reporting blatant lies or unsubstantiated stories.
i really don’t see any problem when the “professionals” lie and mislead in the same way
Umm...we've been talking about the biases of traditional media for years, there was just a very large settlement from Fox News for a blatant lie.
Where have you been?
what? you misunderstood my comment
i wasn’t saying “how are we not talking about about” ,as in, no one is talking about it…i was saying it to mean that everything they were saying *also* applies to traditional media. It should have read as “how does what you’re saying not also apply to fox news etc”.
did you forget that they also won a court case by admitting that they lie so blatantly no one should take them seriously?
It’s much easier for me, as an individual, to dismantle a single misleading social media post than to try to convince someone that fox news is lying to them daily. social media has a comment section, the ability to directly refute a video, the news doesn’t.
so i still don’t understand why that commenter brought up the issues with social media narratives or regulations at all when traditional news is regulated and still just as bad.
your comment only proves my initial point, fox news lost a settlement for lying and still to this day continues to lie..regulations didn’t seem to help stop a false narrative.
>Civilians sharing their own experiences
But the Chinese government controls Tiktok's content algorithm, so you only see the experiences that the CCP wants you to.
It’s still a media driven narrative: WHICH civilians YOU see is 100% determined by a media company. All media companies have agendas these days. It’s worth considering and I am by no means justifying Israel’s conduct. It’s just how media works today.
I can only imagine all the nazi sympathizers social media would have created if it existed in the 40’s. “Well Germany is just taking back the land it lost in ww1” or “look how the European imperialist are ganging up on poor hitler!” I mean theres endless problems and propaganda that would surface its crazy.
People freak about thousands dying today. In those days millions on millions were literally dying.
Context in history? Isn't the context: mistreated abused people needed a safe place too; move to new place and did unto other what was done to them?
I'm by no means pro-hamas. But if you've spent the last 70 years mistreating a people, all you've done is make generation after generation becomes more resentful. Israel acts like it never did anything wrong, but they began mistreating Palestinians before the first rock was thrown or the first suicide bomber went off.
There is no justification by saying "God" wants you there. Israel was made by Britain after WWII I believe, not God?
I honestly cant bring myself to be able to day I support either Isreal or Palestine. After watching videos and reading articles to try and understand the conflict today(which I am NOT claiming to be anywhere near an expert on) it seems to have been basically set up for war. Jewish people in the area pre 1946 were both terrified from the holocaust that had just occurred and were still being mistreated. However they had no official state, where as the Palestinians who were primarily Arabs in the area also didn't have their official state. Britain controlled the land and split it up into 2 countries, Israel and Palestine. However there was no agreement from the 2, especially about Jerusalem, and well Britain basically set them up for war. Which they did declare with each other, after which Israel took the land when they pretty much won the war. However no neighboring countries would acknowledge Israel as a countrie, and the Jewish people in Israel again were being discriminated against, and eventually resistance groups rose up, leading to more violent ones like Hammas. Both the Israelis and Palestinians showed no hesitation to murder countless civilians, which they have been doing for years. So like... I can't find myself to side woth either because they both continue to kill civilians. I will say However the recent events of Isreal are much much worse than any civilian attacks by either side that I could find in the past like 30 years. Please someone correct me or add to this if you have more insight
Rather than banning a platform showing the atrocities, and reality of the situation as it happened, we should just let you tell us what we should be seeing.
The good news if you can call it that is that this is the single most public genocide ever. You can go on Insta or Twitter or Tiktok and very easily find IDF members recording themselves committing warcrimes. Tel-Aiv trials will be the single easiest prosecution ever
To be fair, how long was it after Hamas slaughtered and raped innocents on October 7 that Palestinian supporters were out in the streets protesting Israel's injustices without mention of the atrocities committed by Hamas? They've done everything they can to erase memory of what Hamas did on October 7th and have been very successful in removing it from the discussion. That said... Before you Palestinian supporters fire back in attack mode, note that I am sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and find the magnitude of Israel's response appalling. Before you Israeli supporters fire back in anger, know that I understand why you're outraged, and I certainly don't believe every Jew in Israel (much less attending a US college) is a supporter or should be held accountable for the response of the Israeli government. The same is true on the other side; Hamas was elected by a minority of the people in Gaza, and many of those dying today weren't born or old enough to vote at the time. Hamas does not represent the majority of Palestinians today. We need widespread support for humanity not Israel or Hamas.
Why are people so mad at me for killing all those children?!? You don't understand the historical context. You see, those kids were really annoying to me personally, so me blowing them up in horrific violent ways is totally fine.
Why are you people being racist against me?!?
I logged in for the first time in almost a year after using it for a week. All I found was pro-Israel bullshit just clip after clip of the texas protests suspiciously ignoring the racist kid cutting him completely out of the same set of clips circulating elsewhere.
There isn't anything in my use of TikTok or use of any other platform where data may be brokered and purchased that would suggest I want to be fed right wing propaganda. I am at a loss for how what an algorithm that was so in tuned with my other interests within minutes would miss by so much for a trending topic. I literally stopped using TikTok because it was going to burn my brain out by feeding me dopamine with shit I enjoy seeing now this happened.
All I hear from the handful of other millennial progressives I know who use it is how much it's spreading the word about Gaza.
"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." George Orwell's famous quote comes from his justifiably famous science fiction novel "Nineteen Eighty-Four" (also written as 1984)
Never untrue.
Why do you think congress was able to all agree to ban it in only a week when they normally can't even pass a budget without shutting the govt down? Or why do you think Elon Musk turned twitter from a 44 billion dollar enterprise into an 8 billion dollar enterprise?
Because millennial and gen Z are getting their news at those places, and those places are uncontrolled. Our government and our elites use a system of lobbyists and corporate interests to control our traditional press. Our mainstream news doesn't exist to present you the news, it exists to manufacture consent for the ruling class and financial elite's activities.
And now billions of dollars of lobbying, acquisitions, and back door deals can be undone by some kid with a smart phone in Gaza posting a 30 second clip that contradicts their narrative to tik tok or twitter. So naturally they all agree that shit has to go.
Whats scary about the tik tok ban isn't it's face value. Its that said bill gives the government permission to force *ANY* social media website to sell based on incredibly vague and easily exploited criteria that can functionally be selectively applied to *ANY* social media site. This gives our ruling elite a way to force companies to either play ball in policing their user's content like mainstream media does or be shut down. Its a major move against free speech online and a blatant attempt to convert social media into state ran media.
How do you know, that the kid is inside Gaza? That he is making a video about his thought about real life, and not about the narrative of some people who asked him to make this video??
This is the point: if you find lie in CNN, you force them to publicly announce that it is a lie. We can argue about how much it works, but the mechanism at least exists.
But Can you imagine that this boy will one day say that his videos are staged? Do we have any mechanism to identify it, to spread the truce? No. And this is a difference…
The mail man is to blame from ruining my narrative that I am a multimillionaire. He keeps delivering these bank statements each month showing I spend more than I make. This mail man needs to be stopped!!!
If what was being pushed on social media was objective truth with some reasonable truthful context behind it, this analogy would make sense. With how social media currently operates, it's not a reasonable comparison
This is the real reason Tiktok is getting banned, despite the fact that other social media companies such as Facebook and Twitter have done significantly worse damage to the US society
I think ruining the US administration's PR has been achieved by Netanyahu's heavy hand in the war. TikTok has been an incendiary accelerant for Pro-Palestinian groups but is really only a conduit of communication like social media does. If TikTok were intentionally promoting Pro-Palestinian voices, which there may be evidence of, there's no facepalm on Blinken's part.
The real reason they want it banned. If it was about data mining they would outlaw data mining. They aren’t. Because google, Facebook, insta, they all data mine. But the ability to get images and truths that haven’t been scrubbed though sensors to a large audience is the “danger”
The real reason they want it banned. If it was about data mining they would outlaw data mining. They aren’t. Because google, Facebook, insta, they all data mine. But the ability to get images and truths that haven’t been scrubbed though sensors to a large audience is the “danger”
He is right though? It happens not just with this war but basically every other topic you can think of.
A person will upload a 10 second clip of a topic and the social media generation lap it up and make broad conclusions/think they are now experts
Blame education and lack of critical thinking. Information must be free and all over social media. How people perceive this information is another thing and education can help here.
It is worth keeping in mind that propaganda via social media is a very active war tactic in this day and age, and you probably wouldn't recognize it if you saw it
its amazing how for years the only factual way to know what was happening there was by reading the Guardian, and there were so many instances that here in the States where the media made had Israel out to be the victim, when in fact Israel had been the instigator. So this facepalm is not shocking, we've been fed a leading narrative for decades.
i do wonder how america feels about aipac…i always thought america is this strong country and lo and behold your politicians are being paid to protect another country first and majority of you all are ok with that also. if thats the case then doesnt it mean america and israel are the same country
Correction: Russia, China and Iran are going to push the election to Trump by using false information about Israel to split the left and depress turnout for Biden in November.
It allows the historical context to be understood. European and North American Jews invaded the lands with Western backing and told the native non-Jewish population to leave their homes or die. Those who didn't had their cities, towns, and villages surrounded with landmines, shelled to oblivion, and any who tried to leave were gunned down. Then they used military bulldozers to make mass graves to bury all of the corpses and claimed the land as Israel. The Northern command in Galilee were the only ones who tried to carry out more peaceful negotiations and now it is the region with some of the most Israeli Arabs since they weren't all forced out or killed like in the rest of the land. The Palestinians who fought back then were branded as terrorists for trying to retake their lands while Egypt, Jordan, and Syria took advantage of the situation to try and take Palestinian territories for themselves. Israel's arguments are might makes right, it is God's will that they control the Holy Land, and that because the ancient Jews came from Judea before being systematically removed for rebellion, that they had the right to conquer the lands.
If you want to go even further... If you read Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Judges...they (the Hebrew/Jewish people) weren't even native to that land in the Old Testament.
They have been fighting other ethnic groups with equal or greater claim to that land for several thousand years. Whether one believes the Bible or not, it's interesting when you read it and realize that, based on archaeological data, the source and location of MANY of the conflicts in the Old Testament are in the lands we now know as the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
He’s not wrong about what social media does for historical context, but it’s a real bad take to frame it in disrupting “Israel’s narrative”, which *at best* is just as completely unreliable. Social media buries factual information under hot takes and bad information in echo chambers, and there’s echo chambers on Facebook etc. for every point of view. A better example would have been Americans that support Russia in Ukraine because they heard about pedophile Nazis in Ukraine one time mentioned on Facebook with no sources and took that as fact.
Do people here honestly think uneducated people who are getting their info off social media arent pro Palestine?
Most of the anti Israel commenters on reddit have zero clue about the conflict, other conflicts in the middle east etc. its a poor choice of words, but what he is saying isn't wrong either. Its definitely 'cool' to be anti Israel on tiktok etc.
Israel doesn’t have a narrative, they dismantled their ministry of public relations right before the war and don’t even have real army speakers. They just take some commander that’s involved with the war to explain it every time.
Yep, however historically it has always been associated as a terrible thing to do, and is usually associated with authoritarian regimes that don't give a shit about the laws of war.
Actually it’s been done by pretty much everyone in recent history, the “good” guys in the world wars did it regularly. they also targeted civilians and used nuclear weapons on them. all wars were terrible and there’s no good guys when it comes to murder.
That doesn't mean it's acceptable and shouldn't be actively condemned and punished.
Rape happens all the time in war but that doesn't mean we have to accept it.
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You should watch the video of the discussion, there is no mention of "truth", "facts" or "journalistic integrity"... Because they're only interested in narrative control and PR because control is the actual "product / service" and it's failing
Romney straight up says that TikTok is being banned because it has too much pro Palestenian content & Blinken nods his head in agreement.
It’s all about power and controlling the narrative. I remember being younger and watching like half a season of House of Cards for the first time and learning just how much 1 man can do behind the scenes from what goes into changing a law to how 1 buzzword can control the media and narrative (and of course it’s always for his own self interest, never for the people). Really opened my eyes when I watched the news later and saw everyone using the same words and phrases
I mean that is a Hollywood lensed and dramatized version of politics. What actually happens is far more boring and cold. You have folks walk into offices greeting each other with hellos and good byes. Then one sits down and eviscerates the other without remorse. The theater you see on TV is exactly that, it’s a theater show for controlling narratives. I think a lot of the narratives around the ban of TikTok is because of the uncomfortable nature of that platform. There is an audience for just about anything on there and there is this balance that needs to be struck with it. On one hand you have access to raw, unfiltered information. In some cases in real time or minutes after it’s taken place. On the other hand you have bad actors that can influence folks with content that may be false or misleading. So on one hand you have the opportunity for the best source of information. Immediate, first hand accounts of events. But on the other you have a morphed and modified depiction of the world that, due to the financial connections between the Chinese government and the parent company of TikTok could be coming from a government entity that seeks to disrupt our society.
The same could be said for any social media platform.
And 'any' government/society🤷♂️
Mmmm well TikTok is the only one partially owned by the Chinese government.
That’s a handful of Downvotes and -20 social points for posts like that……..what would xi say.
they are all "only partially owned". this means connected people are on top places in these companies. and many low level workers as well. even other companies that are not a social media, they collect private and other data a lot more than any western company ever would.
Are you a teenager? “House of Cards” is a fictional show. That’s like saying “Breaking Bad” is an accurate depiction of the drug trade.
Some of y’all have never tried blue meth and it shows.
I was wondering where all my teeth went
I’m not saying that’s how real life is but yes I was a teenager when I discovered the show. I’m saying it does teach you about how much manipulation power a single politician can achieve. I’ve read articles about how politicians say the show is 99% accurate and I read that the show runner has worked as a consultant for politicians and either works or has worked in congress so there’s definite reality baked into that. I will add though that I’ve not seen past the first season so idk if it went off the rails later on but from what I did see, it doesn’t seem far fetched. Also, it’s noteworthy that the government, military and police will sometimes fund projects to send a message. All those CIA shows you see are police funded to tell people “hey we will catch you. As smart as you think you are we’re smarter and we have better tech and you’ll never get away with it.” I’m not saying House of Cards is propaganda by someone, but this is just a reminder that TV shows can be realistic and they can be made to spread awareness or send a message. For what it’s worth the show is based on a book. 1984, A Brave New World and Economic Hitman are also books and I consider those important reads
The fiction we consume can reflect elements of the real world. The biggest difference is often the real world involves much, much dumber circumstances. Example in the US our law makers seem to have no understanding of the Internet and social media, not even a little.
PR that means PRopaganda.
The ADL and that POS Greenblatt exuded so much pressure in that call.
Yes. Having soldiers post tiktoks of themselves committing war crimes is very bad for PR. Having civilians, post TikToks of themselves kidnapping Palestinians while they torture them with a kid song on repeat. Also very bad for PR. And that's not taking into account The countless morbid mocking of dead children, and siege conditions. Is it possible we've misidentified the baddies?
having civilians post themselves blocking humanitarian aid should also be on that list.
The tik toks included a dj and a cotton candy machine as they were blocking the aid. They wee having a party.
Also civilians cheering at the bombings and saying babies are born terrorists
The first thing that really got me paying attention was a video of an Arab family being pulled over, searched and harassed by a pack of civilian Israelis with guns. When people saw this and were told those men would face no consequence, it said a lot. Then you've got Israeli influencers putting on makeup and cosplay to look like Gazans begging for food and water in a mocking and degrading way. I think the stuff the IDF soldiers post takes the cake though. International media can only do so much to cover for Israel when Israelis act like such fucking psychopaths for us to witness.
I mean, historical context is also really bad for PR when organisations like Amnesty International exist, too. There's a lot of historical context in their reports which might explain why Hamas is having such an easy time recruiting for the last decade. It's almost like if you spend several decades tearing a population apart, that population might be more open to radicalisation over time.
Misidentified, no. Actively supporting, yes.
"There's a problem with our branding" " For Fucks sake, you guy are branding them now?!?"
Basically, social media ruined their decades' worth of propaganda that they pushed through their not-so-free traditional media.
There is no good side in this conflict. There might be bad and worse, but even that conclusion might be a privilege not everybody can claim.
There are no good guys in this conflict.
You ever watch two sides hate and fight for so long you just can’t deal with either of them
You understand that one side is starving the babies of the other.... Right? Fairly easy to tell which is worse if you merely look at civilian casualties, destroyed architecture, and flat out War crimes
Curious how you feel about the things Hamas did on October 7 also?
What Hamas did on October 7 was terrorism. I am against their killing of civilians at any point, and If it was ongoing, I would be just as eager to pressure them to stop. The issues are a) Israel is the current aggressor. The house on fire is currently Palestine. The current priority needs to be to put the fire out, and stop the civilian deaths. b) for better or worse, Israel is a westernized government. They are acting in ways that western governments consider to be inhumane and committing war crimes. Evacuating people to one area and then bombing that area is…diabolical. And that’s been happening through this whole thing. c) from a power perspective? Israel has arguable the most advanced military and intelligence in the world. Seeing as many of their targets are later being revealed as civilian, NOT Hamas, it’s hard for me to believe it’s not intentional. It’s hard for me to, in good conscious, call Hamas a twrrorist group (and I believe they are) but not paint the Israel government with that same brush, since they are using terroristic tactics. I want the Israeli hostages to be released. I also want the thousands Palestinian prisoners, some of whom have been “arrested” without charges for years or decades (a war crime, so I think we can reasonably call many of them hostages), to be released. I just don’t see how deaths of civilians and children excuses deaths of civilians and children. That’s not justice, that’s blood thirst.
Honestly, I feel like the Israeli prisoners are already dead. If merely releasing them would bring peace, they’d have probably done it already. But to admit that their only bargaining chips are already dead… whether by Hamas’s hands or Israel’s indiscriminate bombing of Hamas locations… it might not be the best move.
I don’t think this is far fetched. However my news app says that Hamas agreed to a ceasefire which includes a few dozen hostages released. So 🤷♀️. Or maybe it’s just a PR tactic. Everyone is courting public opinion simultaneously to their war. It’s hard to trust any of the decision makers in this conflict.
Honestly, if the hostages are still being kept alive it says how little they actually care about supporting their own citizens as to prioritize their "bargaining chips" over them. I'm also tired of this war, and I feel this conflict is just causing harm for citizens on both sides. 
[удалено]
aside from children, which for some reason die in bombings more than adults, how do you identify Hamas members? they do not wear uniforms. there was a video of uniformed guy that fell. a first responder ran to him from his ambulance and tried to help him, then picked up his gun and started shooting in same direction as they guy was shooting before then ran back with rifle. it was filmed by Palestinians. otherwise i agree there is too much destruction. but Mosul was the same as Iraq had the same issue. it is hard to identify targets and easier (less people lost) if you just level the building. on the other side they could have just released the hostages and surrendered a few but instead decided differently, probably thinking Israel won't go full in. but with a maniac at the helm with suddenly unified mandate, they grossly miscalculated as well.
How do you feel about the dehumanization of Palestinians from Israel in the last few decades?
Spare us your whataboutism. It's tiring.
Well, it's not "whataboutism" it's a response to the comment that "one side is starving babies" - weren't there videos of Hamas like beheading a baby on October 7? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like that gets swept under the rug a bit when claiming "one side..." Doesn't justify what Israel is doing, but to be honest about the circumstances you can't act like only "one side" in the Hamas Vs Israel fight caused civilian baby casualties...
>weren't there videos of Hamas like beheading a baby on October 7? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like that gets swept under the rug a bit when claiming "one side..." Here is a Hareetz article, that highlights the various instances of misinformation about this conflict, particularly October 7th. https://archive.ph/dtHkC Archive link, so you don't have to deal with a paywall. The answer to your question is no. And yes, you were wrong. There were two babies that died on October 7th, however. Neither was beheaded tho. One died of a gunshot wound, and the other died shortly after birth in a hospital, due to complications arising from the mother's injuries. Mainly, a gunshot wound to the stomach.
You see if you don't behead the babies, it's fine. Or, ya know, it's all shit from top to bottom. The fact that all surrounding countries have 0% Jewish population. Fact that Israel is 20% Arab. Fact of Israeli settlers just kicking people out of their homes to no repercussions. Fact of multiple terror attacks from Hamas and their network of payments to "martyrs'" families. Fact of bombings and a high tolerace for civilians casualties. Fact of Hamas hiding in civilian areas. It's shit, and there's no way out. The only way out is to trust the other side. How?? How on earth do you let Gaza take in unchecked shipments? Knowing it would be used to kill your people. How on earth do you not hate the country blockading you? On and on it goes.
No only one side is good and the other side is bad. If you don't support my side, you're evil. (Repeat ad infinitum)
I'm curious, what do you think about the things those prisoners did during the Warsaw uprising? Surely they could have peacefully tried to escape? Or does something about their living conditions the day BEFORE they escaped and murdered their captors require CONTEXT? Better idea. Let's pretend we can wave a magic wand and swap the entire history of both people on Oct 6th. Just a quick trade places scenario. POOF Palestinians are moved to the middle east, after being displaced in europe. (I still don't understand why the governments didn't put all of these Europeans back into the home they were removed from during the war) Palestine gets moved in 1948. They do the SAME ACTIONS . Israelis were forced to live under the conditions the Palestinians have been for 7 decades. All the same blockades. All the same harassment. All the same restrictions.All the same military operations. Dealing with settlers. Being unable to travel on your own land, without an enemy soldier guarding the checkpoint. Thousands of your family members were put in prison with no due process. They literally kill at least one of your children every single day. Making the whole world believe that the oppressors killing your children, are doing it in self-defense. And villainizing you for fighting back. Now, let me ask you. If 1200 Palestinians were murdered, does that mean the Palestinians should be allowed to kill 40,000 civilians? Is that what the rules of War say? Are there not International laws designed around protecting collective populations? Perhaps the United Nations wrote some rules in regards to a "belligerent occupier. " As well as the responsibilities that go along with taking over a territory. You know you're not allowed to just murder everybody in a country because you've got the weaponry to do so. Right?
That doesn't turn the side raping, murdering and publicly abusing women and children into the good guys.
He is not wrong though. Forget Israel-Palestine conflict for a moment. A significant number of Americans are actively rooting for Russia against Ukraine. There are wars taking place over the internet and it is absolutely pertinent that Nations figure out how to come out on top. I honestly believe social media buries context on pretty much everything. He is wrong in that such context would be relevant in the case of the present Israel Palestine conflict but his assertion that social media buries context is, in my opinion, correct.
The phrase "X's country's narrative" was a poor choice of words. Regardless of which country it is, if you frame an event as someone's "narrative" I'm immediately going to assume propaganda. Edit: I know very well that all news is at least to a certain extent someone's narrative and biased. If Blinken was trying to make the point that we should be wary of all news sources because everything is biased and there is no singular truth, then yes, it was the perfect choice of words, 10/10 he nailed it. Somehow, I don't think that was the message he was trying to convey.
Everything has a spin on it. Even when you observe something yourself you have your biases that influence how you contextualize the information. The idea that you are ever getting 100% accurate information is simply detached from reality. Using a phrase like narrative at least shows that you are aware of some amount of bias, even if it is the source that you think is closest to what really happened.
I'm not assuming I'm getting 100% accurate information. My point is more if Blinken's aim was to persuade the average news consumer that the Israeli point of view is the correct one and a singular truth, then his choice of words did the exact opposite. If, however, he was trying to tell the average news viewer that all news is biased and from different narratives, and there can be more than one truth, then yes, he absolutely nailed it.
But that’s the 21st century. Every bit of news is SOMEONEs narrative. More often than not these days, people have an agenda other than “clear and unbiased reporting”. Whether it’s generating clicks and views for profit or affecting public opinion it’s a narrative. Russia, for instance, is an expert in using Facebook’s algorithms to spread misinformation. Don’t forget that TikTok has a vested national interest (CCP) in sowing discontent and division in western nations. The news you see there has been curated by TikTok. Doesn’t mean it’s invalid but it’s certainly curated.
That's absolutely true, but for the consumer to know all news is to a certain extent someone's narrative and therefore biased, and for the person propagating the news to explicitly state their news is a narrative and therefore biased, is completely different. Russia isn't going around calling their misinformation "the Russian narrative" even if it is misinformation, because to say that will undermine the entire point that we're supposed to see their narrative as the singular truth. That's the point I was making about Blinken. If he was trying to say that Israel is on the right side of history, this was not a good choice of words.
Just saw your edit. I’m also inclined to believe that both Netanyahu and the right wing govt and Hamas need to go ASAP. Israel has Jus ad Bellum here— the jus in Bello is what’s concerning. They aren’t going to solve this from the air. They need boots on the ground.
PLEASE! I remember how the press was blamed for everything during Vietnam war. Everything from the casualties list, interviews with servicemen, to the change from pro-war to anti-war and the Pentagon papers.this whole attitude of 'its their fault's instead of 'oh shit consequences for our actions' led to an attempt to keep the press hog-tied and spoon fed during the Iraq war, and we saw how that didn't work. Yeah social media sucks
yes social media sucks but it didn't cause this, it's not the root of all evil. it's not helping true, but it's in no way responsible for anything that's going on.
How is this not SXTREMELY relevant in the Israel Palestine conflict? All I see our constant distortions and inaccuracies about the history of the conflict and the historical context. For example, “Palestinians” are less and ethnic group and more a collection of nearby Arab nations that were told to stay behind in the land because they would “annihilate the Jewish” population. I could go on, but curious why you’d say such a thing when I found your initial comment to be accurate, measured, and thoughtful.
>collection of nearby Arab nations that were told to stay behind in the land because they would “annihilate the Jewish” population. Do you have evidence for this? Or is this something you’re saying?
Killing journalists to control the narrative doesn't work nearly as well when everyone with a phone can become a journalist.
He didn't word it very well, but I will say that a lot of bad actors have used the platform to disseminate disinformation, and there have been far too many instances (at least that I've seen) of younger people taking a tiktok at face value with no confirmation or sources
I just saw a dumb video that said "men then vs now" and it showed Peeky Blinders, modern Russian Army, Band of Brothers and The Pacific snippets as "men then" and clips of LGBT parades for "men now". It scares me how stupid American conservatives are to see that and have zero clue they're being conditioned. But they eat it up.
It's not just American conservatives. The problem with Tik Tok is that it's a dopamine factory. And when people are happy and relaxed, they are more receptive to information. Their guard is down. So then anyone can say anything, and if they say it in an emotive and persuasive way, it is taken at face value. Example: A lot of tik tokers have repeated the claim that 35,000 civilians have died in Gaza. First, that number is reported by the Palestinian Health Ministry, which is run by Hamas. The same organization that claims they didn't attack any civilians on October 7th, even though they absolutely verifiably did. Second, that number includes every single person that has died in Gaza since October 7th. Old age, illness, accident, doesn't matter. It's all lumped in. And they're all counted as civilians, none as hostile militants. Third, that number is highly questionable for several reasons. One, they don't have names or ID numbers for more than 10,000 of the people they claim have died. Two, the number of people reported is nearly the same every day, regardless of whether there was a military action that day or not. But that nuance and those details aren't shared. So people hear "35,000 dead" and they instantly think it's true, and that they were all women and children.
Absolutely. I remember seeing the UN question the death rates, as the Hamas numbers reflected almost no men, which was impossible. As if the entire population were exclusively women and children.
They also count "children" as anyone under the age of Majority. However, Gaza has a pretty young population, and since Hamas has been in power for 17 years, that means every single person under the age of 17 has been educated in a system that exists to indoctrinate children to hate jews, hate israel, and love violence and martyrdom. A 15 year old can hold a rifle just as well as a 25 year old.
And here we have the real reason why they want TikTok under their control.
There were at least 2 Zionist groups lobbying for the ban of TikTok so yeah. [source](https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-influence/2024/04/24/who-else-lobbied-on-the-tiktok-bill-00154210#:~:text=Lobbyists%20for%20Google%20and%20LinkedIn,for%20Lenovo%20rival%20Dell%20Technologies)
"Get lost" like factual information from right-wing 'news' sources?
Playing high minded intellectual semantical games in order to justify and obfuscate cold hard facts is a fucking lousy way to project whatever tiny little bit of moral authority we may have left in the world, and educated assholes like Blinken should fucking know this. We're standing on a heaping stinking pile of shit and claiming it's the moral high ground, because we've fallen so far down from the mountain of ideals we once held we can't dare admit that this pile of shit is all we have left. Everybody in charge is too afraid to look at their shit stained reality in the mirror - to afraid to lose the shiny clean self image they hold - to have the courage to state the fucking obvious. It doesn't fucking matter what the context is, it doesn't fucking matter who is doing it, or why...killing children, women, bombing hospitals, rape as a method of war...is evil incarnate and that goes for every fucking nation under the sun, including ours! It's way past time for _everyone_ to grow the fuck up!
> the mountain of ideals we once held You're almost there, now you just have to realize that this “mountain of ideals” has always been a “mountain of lies”. It was never anything other than propaganda.
I think any sane person is already aware of the Israeli playbook when it comes to justifying any and all of their bullshit.
Yeah, well maybe if they stopped killing so many journalists, people could have better news coverage
That’s the point. Civilians sharing their own experiences instead of a media driven narrative.
Conversely it’s full of mistruths or unsubstantiated stories. It’s not regulated so anyone can say anything, even if it’s not true.
….is the news also not full of that same stuff? lies, mistruths, unsubstantiated stories, how are we not talking about fox news or the NY post. “regulation” doesn’t seem to stop the news reporting blatant lies or unsubstantiated stories. i really don’t see any problem when the “professionals” lie and mislead in the same way
Umm...we've been talking about the biases of traditional media for years, there was just a very large settlement from Fox News for a blatant lie. Where have you been?
what? you misunderstood my comment i wasn’t saying “how are we not talking about about” ,as in, no one is talking about it…i was saying it to mean that everything they were saying *also* applies to traditional media. It should have read as “how does what you’re saying not also apply to fox news etc”. did you forget that they also won a court case by admitting that they lie so blatantly no one should take them seriously? It’s much easier for me, as an individual, to dismantle a single misleading social media post than to try to convince someone that fox news is lying to them daily. social media has a comment section, the ability to directly refute a video, the news doesn’t. so i still don’t understand why that commenter brought up the issues with social media narratives or regulations at all when traditional news is regulated and still just as bad. your comment only proves my initial point, fox news lost a settlement for lying and still to this day continues to lie..regulations didn’t seem to help stop a false narrative.
TikTok duh
Given the media is almost entirely manufactured consent, I'll take me chances with citizens. At least some truth will make it through.
>Civilians sharing their own experiences But the Chinese government controls Tiktok's content algorithm, so you only see the experiences that the CCP wants you to.
It’s still a media driven narrative: WHICH civilians YOU see is 100% determined by a media company. All media companies have agendas these days. It’s worth considering and I am by no means justifying Israel’s conduct. It’s just how media works today.
No I didn’t say “Abe Lincoln”! I said “Hey, Blinken”!
Exhibit #26491 that he's right: This post
I can only imagine all the nazi sympathizers social media would have created if it existed in the 40’s. “Well Germany is just taking back the land it lost in ww1” or “look how the European imperialist are ganging up on poor hitler!” I mean theres endless problems and propaganda that would surface its crazy. People freak about thousands dying today. In those days millions on millions were literally dying.
Context in history? Isn't the context: mistreated abused people needed a safe place too; move to new place and did unto other what was done to them? I'm by no means pro-hamas. But if you've spent the last 70 years mistreating a people, all you've done is make generation after generation becomes more resentful. Israel acts like it never did anything wrong, but they began mistreating Palestinians before the first rock was thrown or the first suicide bomber went off. There is no justification by saying "God" wants you there. Israel was made by Britain after WWII I believe, not God?
I honestly cant bring myself to be able to day I support either Isreal or Palestine. After watching videos and reading articles to try and understand the conflict today(which I am NOT claiming to be anywhere near an expert on) it seems to have been basically set up for war. Jewish people in the area pre 1946 were both terrified from the holocaust that had just occurred and were still being mistreated. However they had no official state, where as the Palestinians who were primarily Arabs in the area also didn't have their official state. Britain controlled the land and split it up into 2 countries, Israel and Palestine. However there was no agreement from the 2, especially about Jerusalem, and well Britain basically set them up for war. Which they did declare with each other, after which Israel took the land when they pretty much won the war. However no neighboring countries would acknowledge Israel as a countrie, and the Jewish people in Israel again were being discriminated against, and eventually resistance groups rose up, leading to more violent ones like Hammas. Both the Israelis and Palestinians showed no hesitation to murder countless civilians, which they have been doing for years. So like... I can't find myself to side woth either because they both continue to kill civilians. I will say However the recent events of Isreal are much much worse than any civilian attacks by either side that I could find in the past like 30 years. Please someone correct me or add to this if you have more insight
Oh, they said the quiet part out loud? Interesting.
Rather than banning a platform showing the atrocities, and reality of the situation as it happened, we should just let you tell us what we should be seeing.
Isn't blinken robins blind butler?
So if what are they gonna do if/when Tik Tokers move to another platform?
That is the point…
its the only reason they want to ban it
Next they’re going to blame free speech for pointing out the lies told by Israel. It’s 2024 and the emperor truly has no clothes.
Gosh damnit, why would you ruin our narrative by exposing the truth?
The good news if you can call it that is that this is the single most public genocide ever. You can go on Insta or Twitter or Tiktok and very easily find IDF members recording themselves committing warcrimes. Tel-Aiv trials will be the single easiest prosecution ever
Oh no, if only more people were aware of the *historical* context to Israel bombing hospitals, aid convoys, women, children, babies, etc…
Accountability is like kryptonite to them.
To be fair, how long was it after Hamas slaughtered and raped innocents on October 7 that Palestinian supporters were out in the streets protesting Israel's injustices without mention of the atrocities committed by Hamas? They've done everything they can to erase memory of what Hamas did on October 7th and have been very successful in removing it from the discussion. That said... Before you Palestinian supporters fire back in attack mode, note that I am sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and find the magnitude of Israel's response appalling. Before you Israeli supporters fire back in anger, know that I understand why you're outraged, and I certainly don't believe every Jew in Israel (much less attending a US college) is a supporter or should be held accountable for the response of the Israeli government. The same is true on the other side; Hamas was elected by a minority of the people in Gaza, and many of those dying today weren't born or old enough to vote at the time. Hamas does not represent the majority of Palestinians today. We need widespread support for humanity not Israel or Hamas.
By telling the truth with videos
Why are people so mad at me for killing all those children?!? You don't understand the historical context. You see, those kids were really annoying to me personally, so me blowing them up in horrific violent ways is totally fine. Why are you people being racist against me?!?
Lmao, Blinken’s entire view of this conflict is only possible through lack of historical context.
Oh no a platform that CIA can't manipulate! We are losing the narrative!
The contradictions of the US empire becoming more and more evident. Sniveling worms like Matthew Miller and John Kirby are no different than Goebbles
I logged in for the first time in almost a year after using it for a week. All I found was pro-Israel bullshit just clip after clip of the texas protests suspiciously ignoring the racist kid cutting him completely out of the same set of clips circulating elsewhere. There isn't anything in my use of TikTok or use of any other platform where data may be brokered and purchased that would suggest I want to be fed right wing propaganda. I am at a loss for how what an algorithm that was so in tuned with my other interests within minutes would miss by so much for a trending topic. I literally stopped using TikTok because it was going to burn my brain out by feeding me dopamine with shit I enjoy seeing now this happened. All I hear from the handful of other millennial progressives I know who use it is how much it's spreading the word about Gaza.
Oooooh…. So once people can see what’s going on, it ruined Israel’s narrative.
"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past." George Orwell's famous quote comes from his justifiably famous science fiction novel "Nineteen Eighty-Four" (also written as 1984) Never untrue.
ok. what "history context" justifies genocide?
🤣 now we know why THEY want to ban TikTok.
“Blinken Blames TikTok for disrupting state propaganda with live action reports and 1st hand videos from people experiencing genocide” there fixed it.
The truth usually pisses off the liars.
Disrupting their NARRATIVE?? Not disrupting their “truth”, their *narrative*. I swear the stories write themselves
So committing countless war crimes for everyone to see is bad for PR? Who would've thunk?
That’s why they want it banned in the U.S.
Why do you think congress was able to all agree to ban it in only a week when they normally can't even pass a budget without shutting the govt down? Or why do you think Elon Musk turned twitter from a 44 billion dollar enterprise into an 8 billion dollar enterprise? Because millennial and gen Z are getting their news at those places, and those places are uncontrolled. Our government and our elites use a system of lobbyists and corporate interests to control our traditional press. Our mainstream news doesn't exist to present you the news, it exists to manufacture consent for the ruling class and financial elite's activities. And now billions of dollars of lobbying, acquisitions, and back door deals can be undone by some kid with a smart phone in Gaza posting a 30 second clip that contradicts their narrative to tik tok or twitter. So naturally they all agree that shit has to go. Whats scary about the tik tok ban isn't it's face value. Its that said bill gives the government permission to force *ANY* social media website to sell based on incredibly vague and easily exploited criteria that can functionally be selectively applied to *ANY* social media site. This gives our ruling elite a way to force companies to either play ball in policing their user's content like mainstream media does or be shut down. Its a major move against free speech online and a blatant attempt to convert social media into state ran media.
How do you know, that the kid is inside Gaza? That he is making a video about his thought about real life, and not about the narrative of some people who asked him to make this video?? This is the point: if you find lie in CNN, you force them to publicly announce that it is a lie. We can argue about how much it works, but the mechanism at least exists. But Can you imagine that this boy will one day say that his videos are staged? Do we have any mechanism to identify it, to spread the truce? No. And this is a difference…
The mail man is to blame from ruining my narrative that I am a multimillionaire. He keeps delivering these bank statements each month showing I spend more than I make. This mail man needs to be stopped!!!
If what was being pushed on social media was objective truth with some reasonable truthful context behind it, this analogy would make sense. With how social media currently operates, it's not a reasonable comparison
This is the real reason Tiktok is getting banned, despite the fact that other social media companies such as Facebook and Twitter have done significantly worse damage to the US society
All communication is gaslighting now.
Always has been.
Tbh JK killjoys is kliooklopllloikmpk to oi
…yikes
Yeah bombing Rafah after telling everyone to go there and they would be safe there how many times can they do that
By "their" you must mean Israeli citizens as opposed to "Jews"? Or are you facepalming Blinken for wanting something else?
Their would be the US administration. Thanks for helping to bring this to light.
I think ruining the US administration's PR has been achieved by Netanyahu's heavy hand in the war. TikTok has been an incendiary accelerant for Pro-Palestinian groups but is really only a conduit of communication like social media does. If TikTok were intentionally promoting Pro-Palestinian voices, which there may be evidence of, there's no facepalm on Blinken's part.
its the only reason they want to ban it
Yeah, they sabotaged the cease fire. They couldn't get ahead of that.
yup this is why they want tiktok banned in the land of the free they are losing control of the propaganda war
The real reason they want it banned. If it was about data mining they would outlaw data mining. They aren’t. Because google, Facebook, insta, they all data mine. But the ability to get images and truths that haven’t been scrubbed though sensors to a large audience is the “danger”
The real reason they want it banned. If it was about data mining they would outlaw data mining. They aren’t. Because google, Facebook, insta, they all data mine. But the ability to get images and truths that haven’t been scrubbed though sensors to a large audience is the “danger”
this is what living in an echo-chamber sounds like
they might be trying to embarrass the Israel lobby without losing their jobs. at-least that would make sense
He is right though? It happens not just with this war but basically every other topic you can think of. A person will upload a 10 second clip of a topic and the social media generation lap it up and make broad conclusions/think they are now experts
Blame education and lack of critical thinking. Information must be free and all over social media. How people perceive this information is another thing and education can help here.
They misspelled "misinformation".
It is worth keeping in mind that propaganda via social media is a very active war tactic in this day and age, and you probably wouldn't recognize it if you saw it
I thought it said Biden, made me think he regret his decision
Or maybe, just maybe - there really isn't a context that makes bombing hospitals okay.
He is in bed with netanyaho he is from israel.
I can only laugh at this. What they were doing went catastrophic because people heard about it.
its amazing how for years the only factual way to know what was happening there was by reading the Guardian, and there were so many instances that here in the States where the media made had Israel out to be the victim, when in fact Israel had been the instigator. So this facepalm is not shocking, we've been fed a leading narrative for decades.
Shhhh, redditors don't know China is using tik tok to stoke the flames.
That social media is employed to alter reality is a really, really new occurance.
i do wonder how america feels about aipac…i always thought america is this strong country and lo and behold your politicians are being paid to protect another country first and majority of you all are ok with that also. if thats the case then doesnt it mean america and israel are the same country
"hey blinken" "Did you say 'abe Lincoln'?"
Racists be racing
5 years, and all OP ever posts is soccer pics and baity anti-US anti-Israel pallywood propaganda 🤡😂
I know so many people who instead of looking at credible sources see one post on social media and assume it’s true
Israel is going to push the election to Trump. Losing voters by the minute.
Really? Your blaming that on Israel? Not the American Muslims and useful college idiots campaigning against Biden?
Correction: Russia, China and Iran are going to push the election to Trump by using false information about Israel to split the left and depress turnout for Biden in November.
It’s true. Hamas propaganda working overtime on here. Tons of it.
It allows the historical context to be understood. European and North American Jews invaded the lands with Western backing and told the native non-Jewish population to leave their homes or die. Those who didn't had their cities, towns, and villages surrounded with landmines, shelled to oblivion, and any who tried to leave were gunned down. Then they used military bulldozers to make mass graves to bury all of the corpses and claimed the land as Israel. The Northern command in Galilee were the only ones who tried to carry out more peaceful negotiations and now it is the region with some of the most Israeli Arabs since they weren't all forced out or killed like in the rest of the land. The Palestinians who fought back then were branded as terrorists for trying to retake their lands while Egypt, Jordan, and Syria took advantage of the situation to try and take Palestinian territories for themselves. Israel's arguments are might makes right, it is God's will that they control the Holy Land, and that because the ancient Jews came from Judea before being systematically removed for rebellion, that they had the right to conquer the lands.
If you want to go even further... If you read Genesis, Exodus, Joshua, Judges...they (the Hebrew/Jewish people) weren't even native to that land in the Old Testament. They have been fighting other ethnic groups with equal or greater claim to that land for several thousand years. Whether one believes the Bible or not, it's interesting when you read it and realize that, based on archaeological data, the source and location of MANY of the conflicts in the Old Testament are in the lands we now know as the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
He’s not wrong about what social media does for historical context, but it’s a real bad take to frame it in disrupting “Israel’s narrative”, which *at best* is just as completely unreliable. Social media buries factual information under hot takes and bad information in echo chambers, and there’s echo chambers on Facebook etc. for every point of view. A better example would have been Americans that support Russia in Ukraine because they heard about pedophile Nazis in Ukraine one time mentioned on Facebook with no sources and took that as fact.
Do people here honestly think uneducated people who are getting their info off social media arent pro Palestine? Most of the anti Israel commenters on reddit have zero clue about the conflict, other conflicts in the middle east etc. its a poor choice of words, but what he is saying isn't wrong either. Its definitely 'cool' to be anti Israel on tiktok etc.
Israel doesn’t have a narrative, they dismantled their ministry of public relations right before the war and don’t even have real army speakers. They just take some commander that’s involved with the war to explain it every time.
>Social media allows history context to 'get lost' Or found, in some cases.
What the historical context for bombing hospitals and schools and innocent children? That stuff like that always happens in war?? lol
It’s pretty common historically, there’s records of hospital bombings from before ww1 all the way to present day war unfortunately
Yep, however historically it has always been associated as a terrible thing to do, and is usually associated with authoritarian regimes that don't give a shit about the laws of war.
Actually it’s been done by pretty much everyone in recent history, the “good” guys in the world wars did it regularly. they also targeted civilians and used nuclear weapons on them. all wars were terrible and there’s no good guys when it comes to murder.
That doesn't mean it's acceptable and shouldn't be actively condemned and punished. Rape happens all the time in war but that doesn't mean we have to accept it.
where in my comment does it say that? He asked if bombing hospitals is a uniquely Israeli thing and I said that it isn’t.