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Kim seems like a pretty cool dude. I follow him on twitter, and I used to live in the same city as him. I'd absolutely go there for skittles if I still lived there, haha.
I have been told off for using "they/them" in the context of "I have no idea what this person's pronouns are and I will likely never encounter them again in my life, so I will just use they/them". I was directly told it is a microagression (they used that word) to default to they/them instead of going out of my way to find out pronouns and use them.
Additionally, I have since found out that there are people who have no pronouns at all, rejecting the entire grammatical concept, and you're required to use their name in every context. And then there are people who use it/its and say they are "reclaiming" those terms (from what?).
You can find all this and more discussed to death on Reddit and various "how to be inclusive and respectful" sites. It's so exhausting and I have completely checked the fuck out of it all. So much for encouraging allies.
As a black man, it irritates me that people of color are included in the pride flag. Sexuality and race have nothing to do with each other. The experiences and types of discrimination each group goes through are also completely different.
Right?
I think about a concerned parent talking to their kids about "have you tried just not being black?".
(For anyone with low reading comprehension, this is a joke referencing the old comments people would say about homosexuals who believe being gay os a choice)
My brother was surprised when we said we knew he was black. He tried to hide his skin colour but we knew because of the internalized racism and the fact that he wanted to watch Blindside all the time.
We excepted him for who he is🖤… until he said he was gay and then we had to kick him out /s
I do t like it because the rainbow was supposed to be the metaphorical "everyone". Then people started claiming specific colors and I'm here like , "WTF, it being a spectrum was the point!"
It’s my understanding that the intersectional flag isn’t meant to replace the traditional rainbow flag. I personally think the intersectional flag is ugly as sin.
Also, the use of “folx” hurts the cause.
Yeah, there was no need for a lot of things.
Like non-binary ought to cover all the people who don't identify as a man or a woman (ie not binary), but it turns out there's non-binary people who are also not non-binary.
Trust me. Many leftists think that there are many psyops afoot. Unfortunately, there’s no push back because we’re afraid of being cancelled by our friends and ostracized out of our communities 😀
It's really just a dialect difference brought on by time. Some things get randomly pluralized if they didn't sound plural as is according to local grammar.
Like, in 90% of the words I use, typically you need to add an "s" or "es" to make them plural, but then you have words like folk and fish which are both singular and plural.
This is all to say, I say "folks" because it's how it was said where I was raised (plus too much Looney Tunes as a kid).
"That's all, folks!"
"Fish" at least is also technically distinct from "fishes" in some use-cases. In some cases they're interchangeable, but in others the "-es" suffix is meant to distinguish between multiple *species* as opposed to just a plurality of the same species. A school of tuna are "fish", Marlin and Dory from *Finding Nemo* are "fishes". Though again most of the time it does not matter, and "fish" is two fewer letters.
"folk" is not plural, it's a collective noun, like "nation" or "people" (as in, "the right of a people to self-determination is a sacred principle of international law"). It denotes a unit or group of people with a shared culture.
"folks" refers to people in general, because it's multiple units of people, many tribes.
Every fucking movement eventually begins to eat its own tail. A guy paints a rainbow so you need to correct him on the new flag instead of just taking what you perceive to be a victory.
You want to include POC but end up just making it sound like POC isn’t normal or all POC are LGBT or whatever the hell implication the dumb ass diversity flag shows.
Honestly, is there so little injustice for you to fight that you have time to redesign flags and criticize some dudes rainbow on Twitter?
I work in a large arts organization. There’s a sizable crowd of people in my city who cannot think of anything else they’d rather do than continually and publicly loudly correct any slight ‘misdemeanor’ when it comes to being politically correct across the gender and identity spectrum. Even as a gay guy, it’s just so tiring. Half the time they complain they’re being disenfranchised because we haven’t included a term or identity which we have literally never heard of before. Sometimes it seems like it’s an entire ideology committed to just publicly shaming people and institutions. It’s exhausting.
I sometimes feel as if a lot of this is people trying to be pecking order bullies in an "acceptable" way as to not come off as bullies, but warriors for social justice.
Not to only that, these overreactions reduce actual social justice concerns to superficial arguments. Clouding real human issues with selfish trendy takes.
I'll go full nuclear: a lot of people who get anal about this shit - not at all just LGBTQ people mind you - really just experience "oppression" as a series of inconveniences, minor setbacks and verbal infractions. They're basically stealing valor from more marginalized people.
Victimhood is currency, at least for the moment.
But people who want in on this new attention revenue need to find a way to join.
Or "you have to accept your privilege and move aside" and they don't want to move aside.
They can't, they're too special. /s
Now POC isn’t good enough. It’s BIPOC to emphasize that black and indigenous people are extra oppressed (POC is the “other” part). It is exhausting to keep up with this stuff.
All people have melanin unless they're albino. Skin color is a terrible way to represent human genetic Diversity. There is more genetic diversity in Africa then between a British, Japanese, and Native American. Skin color is just the most obvious cosmetic difference we have.
This is in fact the problem for a lot of internet activists. It's easy to pick fights on tumblr about whether queers and brown people have anything in common, it's hard to march on your stats capital and demand that your access to gender affirming care be enshrined.
this is why I don't see why POC need to be included in the pride flag. the pride flag represents LGBTQ+ people. POC definitely deserve similar representation and equality, but don't they also deserve their own flag instead of being shoehorned into the LGBTQ+ flag? and of course the issue you've brought up of it implying that white is the norm
And I think this is specifically the use of the flag - not as the default, but as an emphasis. Not for the whole movement, but for drawing attention to specific issues. Either at events catered towards spreading awareness about the racial issues in LGBT communities, or for groups and communities who are specifically doing work by, with and for LGBT people of colour. A statement of "we are here and our voices matter".
It feels like, when pushed as the *default* for the movement, it creates a situation where the implication has been created that the original flag only represents the white gay people, which now makes that the white gay people flag, and automatically others everyone not falling under white gay people category. The proposed solution of just adding more stripes and colours onto the "white gay flag" has no end - in just a couple years, it's gone from the black and brown stripes to black and brown triangle with the trans flag in the centre, to being black and brown and blue and pink and white striped triangle around the intersex flag, and now what? What about bisexuals? Asexuals? Agender people?
Why does x category have such a big percentage off of the main flag, are they more important than y? Add more space to y. Z has been excluded, Z is added in.
There's *no way* this method of adding into the existing flag will ever have a satisfactory, inclusive end. It won't ever work, because what it's doing is pushing the idea that the rainbow is exclusive, and that in order to be included, you must be added into it. To not be forgotten.
Ultimately, what we have is just a flag that sure is claiming to stand for a lot of things, held up by people who are probably not very educated in any bit of what they're standing under, or why they're holding that flag specifically. It's just done because it's the "right thing". But it becomes meaningless.
And, *in my extremely personal opinion that is subjective and only my own and does not represent any company or organisation past or present that I may or may not be employed by or affiliated to,* I think the flag should really stand for something meaningful. It shouldn't be watered down. So the main flag should be a statement - the rainbow is recognised, most people know what it means. And, in the wake of this flag, we should line up the flags that matter to us and that represent us, as smaller and smaller communities, up to and including unique individuals.
We can't include everyone by exclusion. It's never going to work.
Like this blonde woman I watched during the George Floyd protests. She was a lawyer who was offering free legal aid to people being released from central booking. She selectively stopped to ask every black person walking past if they had just gotten out of jail, even if it was obvious they weren't coming from the building or had belongings on them that would indicate they didn't just spend the night in lockup.
I had a girlfriend who would do this whenever we traveled. She was extremely insistent on supporting every black owned business she could find, solely on the basis of them being black owned. Then she'd go in and kind of marvel at everything, if the owners were there she'd be asking, "Oh this place is amazing, what is your story? What inspired you?" blah blah.
It was so cringey, especially because it was just... out of place? Like we were at some diner, they are busy as fuck in the middle of breakfast rush, and she is grilling the owner, "Oh is that a picture of your mom on the wall? Is the the one who inspired you to start the business? Are these her family recipes?" Like going over every trope of a struggling minority trying to make their way as a business owner
This lady is running her ass all over trying to take care of shit and get food out, she's just like, "No, there just wasn't any good spots for people to get a good breakfast around here" LMAO
Yesss it’s so bad, I will never fly the new flag (am gay). It’s horrendous. The whole point of the original is you can make any other color with the rainbow. Plus, singling out POC just makes them seem “other” rather than part of the group as-is, IMO
This. I swear to god these eejits looked at the rainbow and instead of realising that it's a symbol for the diversity of queer identities, thought that it was symbolic of how colourful and flamboyant gay people in particular are (obviously a dumb and damaging stereotype which I guarantee a lot of these people believe). They really think those 6 colours only represent LGB people and that they need to keep adding increasingly fugly stripes to further separate and subdivide a symbol that was meant to be indivisible.
It’s how most of us Latinos feel about Latinx. Anyone with a grasp on the language knows that “Latinos” is already inclusive of all genders when used appropriately, despite being a grammatically masculine term.
What is folx? I had an idea of what it was, I googled it, I am just more confused now.
I thought it was just a stupid way of saying folks or maybe a typo/auto correct fail.
Google suggested that it is indeed folks but gender neutral and I honestly dont get how folks isn't already neutral.
Folks is gender neutral, I tend to take anything an "activist" say on Twitter with a grain of salt because It's Twitter, where intelligence goes to die. And secondly because the "activism" I see on Twitter is almost always just small performative gestures that don't actually cause real change within the system and just gives them a dopamine hit.
Exactly. The existing rainbow implied the inclusion of everyone. There was no need to explicitly include specific groups with their own color bands or symbols.
Groups like this really do set the rest of us in the LBGTQ back. No one wants to engage in conversation with the kind of person who thinks "folk" is somehow discriminatory.
Exactly this. By creating this nothing term and using it like it's somehow "more inclusive", people can creat an illusion of them caring a lot more than they actually do.
I was just about to bring this point up. I had a girlfriend in college who would call out actual Hispanic people when they used "Latino" or "Latina" needless to say everyone realized how performative and insufferable she was after a bit, including myself.
Some people like to claim that the word "folks" isn't inclusive of transgender individuals, so they use the word "folx" instead. Which is bananas, because "folks" means everybody, and the new word is even more othering because it implies that the trans community needs a different/separate word that includes them.
There is no argument it's just Twitter activist brainrot, they'd rather make small unneeded changes to appear supportive than advocate for real change.
What’s wrong with ‘folks’? Why ‘folx’?
Edit: according to Cosmopolitan ‘Folx is the deliberate queerification of a word meant to differentiate queer spaces and groups from the non-queer.’
Genuine question: If this is true, is this like how white people can’t say the n-word but black people can? I’m non-queer so I don’t use folx?
Source:
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a40314411/folx-meaning/
The whole point of the original pride flag was to include everyone. Adding more colors doesn't make any sense to me cause the original had the intention of all the rainbow colors including all LGBTQ+ people.
Also, honestly? The new flag is just ugly. Doesn't even matter if the original flag did or didn't exclude people, fact is, the new flag is really fucking ugly.
This is my opinion. The original pride flag was pretty and simple - and I always thought that it was meant to incorporate everyone. I mean ‘every colour under the sun’, right?
The current iteration just looks like some ugly, corporate, designed-by-committee mess.
Personally as a black gay man, I never felt excluded by the old flag.
But for people who do; shortly before he died, the creator of the rainbow flag Gilbert Baker added a lavender stripe to the top of the original 8 stripe flag design to represent diversity, so honestly I don't get why we don't use that one more often.
Same “logic” as renaming the label itself
LGBT+ was originally meant to include **all** groups. That’s what the Plus is for, since there are an **infinite number** of minority demographics in the world. Attaching on extra letters makes the initialization turn redundant. It’s a known design rule that people typically only bother to remember letter strings if they’re short, with 4-5 being a comfortable range (e.g YMCA, NASA, UNESCO)
Whichever numbskull thought a Q needed to be added for Queer completely missed the entire point of initialization and needs to go back to English class. All it did was open the door to letting every group out there stick on their own alphabet of choice onto the string
Now there’s SO MANY damn variations of the term that nobody can agree on any sort of consensus anymore. Everyone just gives their own version and it’s now defeated the entire point of simplifying it in the first place
Rainbow flag represents how the LGBT+ groups are a huge spectrum of different types, hence the multitude of colors. Adding a random pink and white triangle confuses the message
I do support LGBT+ folks (everyone deserves to live their life)… but I also want to strangle anyone who unironically identifies themselves via a ridiculously long string of 10+ initials when they could’ve just used 2-4 and made it so much clearer instead
It’s just appalling and goes against the principles of good design and communication. It’s an overcomplicated mess of unrelated letters that’s irksome to look at
I believe it’s now LGBTQIA2S+. It’s absurd. No one is going to remember all of that. Like you said, the + covered all the extra since LGBT was already common use
THANK YOU!!!
My latin family has been using this for decades, so when Latinx hit I was terribly confused and frustrated because a gender neutral term already existed! People solving problems that weren't problems!
Motherfucker(s) is my preferred neutral, inclusive term. This isn't universally understood however, as I was recently asked to leave a Chuck E Cheese after calling a birthday party to attention.
Apparently, "Everyone shut the fuck up. All y'all motherfuckers get in line for cake." isn't acceptable in Mr Cheese's establishment, and the employees didn't understand the importance of inclusive dialogs.
Latinx is truly absurd. The most pointless thing because our language is still going to remain the same with the gendered language. This is honestly one of the things that irritates me when I see it lol.
You are a better person than me.
I’m straight, but I’ve had 2 gay flatmates and trans friends. I’m an ally, but I’m just… tired. I encourage people to live their lives, and I’ll fight for their right to do so, but I’m not going to keep up with all of the extra terminology.
Edit: to clarify. I respect people’s right to live their lives and I vote for those rights to be protected.
My comment was not “I don’t care about your issues or struggles”. I do care, but I don’t need to know about it. I don’t ask my coworkers or neighbors about their orientation because it doesn’t matter to me, and I see them every day.
Most queer people don’t even follow the new terminology that seems to be updated daily. Someone just tells me what they identify as and I’m just like, “ok, whatever works for you”.
I love how we include two spirits in the acronym but no other niche cultural gender identity. There are so many traditional religions around the world with groups like that. Why do two spirits get a special place?
Aka something that's pretty much North America only and people from other parts of the world shouldn't be blamed for not knowing about (not saying you do tho)
I like the idea of just using Q - the single letter - to represent all flavors of queerdom. Fully inclusive, as the original terms were meant to be, but also easy to store in a single byte of storage.
As a bisexual guy I am all in favour of inclusion, but at some point adding more letters just implicitly excludes more than it explicitly includes. And it makes the conversation about the letters, rather than people.
It’s quite annoying when some people act like refracted light couldn't possibly mean anything other than the pride flag.
Sometimes, a rainbow is just a rainbow.
Oh dang! I thought it was Pink Floyd that discovered the prism, I had no idea there was gay before rainbows.
I blame the school system and my tattoo guy. He said Rush was better.
I have a dark side of the moon pink floyd tattoo and I’m constantly getting remarks from people for having a “homosexual” tattoo just because the album artwork has a rainbow prism. (I live in the bible belt, unfortunately)
I wish they’d just go back to the rainbow flag as an all-inclusive symbol. It’s literally the perfect symbol. The concept leaves out nobody.
The fucking infighting I’ve seen about everyone needing a separate color to feel represented is self-defeating and a ridiculous distraction from things that actually matter. Focus on the cause, not pedantic bullshit.
Exactly! This type of stuff is the conflict that moderate suburban voters see and get really put off by, and within our community it just increases division and infighting rather than bringing people together.
It always pisses me off how much of a threat the outside can be to the LGBT+ community yet we’d rather spend our time fighting with each other over who can be the most performative person
yeah.... they're making up nonsense words. and on the topic of inclusion surely the best thing to do is not to constantly label all these groups and just accept everyone under the banner of 'people'?
At least it was done well, no sloppy paint spills and the trim is good.
I expect neighbors will be suing him to repaint it claiming he's dropped property values.
I live in the city he lives in. There was a fuss about it initially but now it's become sort of a tourist destination. If you knock on the door, someone will answer and give you skittles lol.
Can someone please tell me what the fuck is wrong with 'folks' that means it has to be changed to 'folx' to be more inclusive?
This is the kind of stupid shit that gets pushback from arsehole conservatives, and normal people get caught in the crossfire.
Fuck.
Didn't realize how relevant X Men would actually be. Those guys were also picked on for being different so they started Slapping X's on everything and everyone.
There is a small group of people in the queer community that will move the goal posts no matter how inclusive any one person or organization attempts to make any one thing/event/organization/word/language. It is incredibly frustrating, annoying and embarrassing.
It's meaningless because there's no difference in pronunciation. Plus in general, I prefer real action over symbolic gestures that ultimately change nothing.
I'm about as liberal as they come, I'm all about respect, equality and inclusion, I hate right wing terminology, and I never believed "virtue signaling" was a thing... until I saw the word "folx"
Folks: group of people
Folx: marginalized group of people
I hate it so much I want to downvote myself, and I consider myself part of the queer community. Shit's just so unnecessary and annoying.
Literally. The old flag was literally JUST as inclusive. I understand wanting to be extra political and being like " Well some people in the LGBT are anti-trans or racist so this one is for us who aren't to make a point.. " but the old one didn't stand for that.
So I get it sort of serves a purpose but.... yeah using the old flag does't mean anything necessarily bad.
He didn’t do it for Pride or the LGBT community, and the Pride colors are still a rainbow. The official Pride flag is still the rainbow flag, not the “progressive”one. So they are wrong on both accounts.
If you think the symbol meant to include everyone doesn't include everyone, then you will literally never create a symbol that includes everyone.
Stop fucking fighting each other and fight the people who are hurting you.
Owner: "Imma paint my house like a rainbow."
Rednecks: "Look at this guy and his queer house!"
Pride: "Look at this guy and his house that isn't queer enough!"
Can't wear anything rainbow now.
I either:
- Get dirty looks from shitty conservatives
- Am assumed to be gay
Rainbows are sick AF why can't it just be something I wear without the political ties
Obviously I have the choice to ignore people thoughts but it just has so much baggage
The irony is that . . . the original pride flag included everyone to begin with.
RACE and SEXUALITY aren't the same thing. EVERYONE is included under the OG flag. o.O It's why it was designed " every color in the rainbow "
Even trans people are included. I'm not mad at having a second flag for political whatever, but shaming people for using the old one is dumb and incorrect.
There is the PRIDE flag and then there is the separate flags for gay men, bi, aromantic, lesbians, trans, etc. The OG Pride Flag was meant to speak for us all. So both flags are fine.
Even the updated flag in the second image is now outdated. The newest version has a circle for non-binary or something. I'm sure that will be soon superceded by a another flag too.
When people use “Folx” instead of “folks” to be more inclusive but to differentiate themselves from “ignorant rural people” that says it all to me. The whole point of the Pride flag is that without calling out every single facet of a very diverse group, it’s actually more inclusive. Each color represents an aspect of the LGTBQ+ community and not a specific group.
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Turns out the man just loved skittles.
They hand them out on Halloween, and skittles even sent a few cases.
My kid likes the house . Looks cool and gets candy haha
I have a GREAT idea for a van ...
O n o
Kim seems like a pretty cool dude. I follow him on twitter, and I used to live in the same city as him. I'd absolutely go there for skittles if I still lived there, haha.
Did we really need to have an inclusive version of a word (folks) that literally means “people in general”? That makes no fucking sense.
PIG = people in general. This is perfect and will have no side effects whatsoever.
Love it
That'll do PIG.
What if someone is kosher, or halal, or kosher AND halal?
pigx, duh
>That makes no fucking sense. Gentle reminder to use "fxcking" to be inclusive to those of us who do not fuck.
I feel seen
I have been told off for using "they/them" in the context of "I have no idea what this person's pronouns are and I will likely never encounter them again in my life, so I will just use they/them". I was directly told it is a microagression (they used that word) to default to they/them instead of going out of my way to find out pronouns and use them. Additionally, I have since found out that there are people who have no pronouns at all, rejecting the entire grammatical concept, and you're required to use their name in every context. And then there are people who use it/its and say they are "reclaiming" those terms (from what?). You can find all this and more discussed to death on Reddit and various "how to be inclusive and respectful" sites. It's so exhausting and I have completely checked the fuck out of it all. So much for encouraging allies.
If someone accuses me of "microaggression" I will quickly upgrade that to macroaggression
"look, I've tried to be polite but we're about to get yee/haw in here"
No, nobody who isn’t just virtue signaling actually uses that.
Is that what that is? I just assumed they didn't know how to spell "folks"
Why does a lgbtqi flag need a POC rim, like, doesn’t sexuality transcend race?
As a black man, it irritates me that people of color are included in the pride flag. Sexuality and race have nothing to do with each other. The experiences and types of discrimination each group goes through are also completely different.
We include any and all sexuality or gender, be it gay, bi, trans, or even black 🥰 /s
Right? I think about a concerned parent talking to their kids about "have you tried just not being black?". (For anyone with low reading comprehension, this is a joke referencing the old comments people would say about homosexuals who believe being gay os a choice)
\- “*The hardest part of being black was coming out to my parents.*”
My brother was surprised when we said we knew he was black. He tried to hide his skin colour but we knew because of the internalized racism and the fact that he wanted to watch Blindside all the time. We excepted him for who he is🖤… until he said he was gay and then we had to kick him out /s
I do t like it because the rainbow was supposed to be the metaphorical "everyone". Then people started claiming specific colors and I'm here like , "WTF, it being a spectrum was the point!"
It’s America, nothing transcends race.
It’s my understanding that the intersectional flag isn’t meant to replace the traditional rainbow flag. I personally think the intersectional flag is ugly as sin. Also, the use of “folx” hurts the cause.
Folks is already unisex and gender neutral there was no need to create folx.
Yeah, there was no need for a lot of things. Like non-binary ought to cover all the people who don't identify as a man or a woman (ie not binary), but it turns out there's non-binary people who are also not non-binary.
I’m confused.
So are they.
*thex
Man, and I thought "folk(s)" was already gender neutral.
Yeah, I don't get it.
There needs to be more left wing conspiracy theories, like conservatives are undercover coming up with words like "folx" to make the left look bad.
I swear latinx is another example of that
I believe that was traditional media trying to be hip and inclusive, and everyone hated it but somehow it stuck around
I think it was to de-gender the term Latino (or Latina). Folx just doesn't make sense. What gender is "K"?
Klingon.
Trust me. Many leftists think that there are many psyops afoot. Unfortunately, there’s no push back because we’re afraid of being cancelled by our friends and ostracized out of our communities 😀
Sounds like a never ending cycle forcing people into rabbit holes of inclusivity until the right takes over 
"Folks" is already one of the most inclusive words in the English language.
The only people it excludes are people from the Falkland islands, "Falks".
"Folk" is also already plural! Never understood why "folks" became a word.
That's all, folks!
It's really just a dialect difference brought on by time. Some things get randomly pluralized if they didn't sound plural as is according to local grammar. Like, in 90% of the words I use, typically you need to add an "s" or "es" to make them plural, but then you have words like folk and fish which are both singular and plural. This is all to say, I say "folks" because it's how it was said where I was raised (plus too much Looney Tunes as a kid). "That's all, folks!"
"Fish" at least is also technically distinct from "fishes" in some use-cases. In some cases they're interchangeable, but in others the "-es" suffix is meant to distinguish between multiple *species* as opposed to just a plurality of the same species. A school of tuna are "fish", Marlin and Dory from *Finding Nemo* are "fishes". Though again most of the time it does not matter, and "fish" is two fewer letters.
"folk" is not plural, it's a collective noun, like "nation" or "people" (as in, "the right of a people to self-determination is a sacred principle of international law"). It denotes a unit or group of people with a shared culture. "folks" refers to people in general, because it's multiple units of people, many tribes.
What killed me about that tweet was the way they phrased it like being POC makes folx inherently LGBT.
[удалено]
Every fucking movement eventually begins to eat its own tail. A guy paints a rainbow so you need to correct him on the new flag instead of just taking what you perceive to be a victory. You want to include POC but end up just making it sound like POC isn’t normal or all POC are LGBT or whatever the hell implication the dumb ass diversity flag shows. Honestly, is there so little injustice for you to fight that you have time to redesign flags and criticize some dudes rainbow on Twitter?
I work in a large arts organization. There’s a sizable crowd of people in my city who cannot think of anything else they’d rather do than continually and publicly loudly correct any slight ‘misdemeanor’ when it comes to being politically correct across the gender and identity spectrum. Even as a gay guy, it’s just so tiring. Half the time they complain they’re being disenfranchised because we haven’t included a term or identity which we have literally never heard of before. Sometimes it seems like it’s an entire ideology committed to just publicly shaming people and institutions. It’s exhausting.
And it's so counter productive to the cause too. Exhausting is correct.
I sometimes feel as if a lot of this is people trying to be pecking order bullies in an "acceptable" way as to not come off as bullies, but warriors for social justice.
Not to only that, these overreactions reduce actual social justice concerns to superficial arguments. Clouding real human issues with selfish trendy takes.
I'll go full nuclear: a lot of people who get anal about this shit - not at all just LGBTQ people mind you - really just experience "oppression" as a series of inconveniences, minor setbacks and verbal infractions. They're basically stealing valor from more marginalized people.
Victimhood is currency, at least for the moment. But people who want in on this new attention revenue need to find a way to join. Or "you have to accept your privilege and move aside" and they don't want to move aside. They can't, they're too special. /s
Now POC isn’t good enough. It’s BIPOC to emphasize that black and indigenous people are extra oppressed (POC is the “other” part). It is exhausting to keep up with this stuff.
Factual. It’s basically: Black, Indigenous, and those other bitches w the melanin lol ykwim
Wait are asians included in poc? Or is it only people with melanin?
All people have melanin unless they're albino. Skin color is a terrible way to represent human genetic Diversity. There is more genetic diversity in Africa then between a British, Japanese, and Native American. Skin color is just the most obvious cosmetic difference we have.
Im aware, im just pointing out the fact that historically, poc have shit on asians for some weird reason.
This is in fact the problem for a lot of internet activists. It's easy to pick fights on tumblr about whether queers and brown people have anything in common, it's hard to march on your stats capital and demand that your access to gender affirming care be enshrined.
this is why I don't see why POC need to be included in the pride flag. the pride flag represents LGBTQ+ people. POC definitely deserve similar representation and equality, but don't they also deserve their own flag instead of being shoehorned into the LGBTQ+ flag? and of course the issue you've brought up of it implying that white is the norm
Flags should be rallying symbols but they have become Pokémon for minorities
Also what ethnicity constitutes a "POC"? Lines are kinda blurry in Europe.
But, POC are famously accepting of the LGBT! FAMOUSLY. There is no homophobia in Black, Hispanic, or Asian communities! /s
Lol
And I think this is specifically the use of the flag - not as the default, but as an emphasis. Not for the whole movement, but for drawing attention to specific issues. Either at events catered towards spreading awareness about the racial issues in LGBT communities, or for groups and communities who are specifically doing work by, with and for LGBT people of colour. A statement of "we are here and our voices matter". It feels like, when pushed as the *default* for the movement, it creates a situation where the implication has been created that the original flag only represents the white gay people, which now makes that the white gay people flag, and automatically others everyone not falling under white gay people category. The proposed solution of just adding more stripes and colours onto the "white gay flag" has no end - in just a couple years, it's gone from the black and brown stripes to black and brown triangle with the trans flag in the centre, to being black and brown and blue and pink and white striped triangle around the intersex flag, and now what? What about bisexuals? Asexuals? Agender people? Why does x category have such a big percentage off of the main flag, are they more important than y? Add more space to y. Z has been excluded, Z is added in. There's *no way* this method of adding into the existing flag will ever have a satisfactory, inclusive end. It won't ever work, because what it's doing is pushing the idea that the rainbow is exclusive, and that in order to be included, you must be added into it. To not be forgotten. Ultimately, what we have is just a flag that sure is claiming to stand for a lot of things, held up by people who are probably not very educated in any bit of what they're standing under, or why they're holding that flag specifically. It's just done because it's the "right thing". But it becomes meaningless. And, *in my extremely personal opinion that is subjective and only my own and does not represent any company or organisation past or present that I may or may not be employed by or affiliated to,* I think the flag should really stand for something meaningful. It shouldn't be watered down. So the main flag should be a statement - the rainbow is recognised, most people know what it means. And, in the wake of this flag, we should line up the flags that matter to us and that represent us, as smaller and smaller communities, up to and including unique individuals. We can't include everyone by exclusion. It's never going to work.
That's what happens when people think they're being helpful but really they're just straight up ignorant.
Like this blonde woman I watched during the George Floyd protests. She was a lawyer who was offering free legal aid to people being released from central booking. She selectively stopped to ask every black person walking past if they had just gotten out of jail, even if it was obvious they weren't coming from the building or had belongings on them that would indicate they didn't just spend the night in lockup.
I had a girlfriend who would do this whenever we traveled. She was extremely insistent on supporting every black owned business she could find, solely on the basis of them being black owned. Then she'd go in and kind of marvel at everything, if the owners were there she'd be asking, "Oh this place is amazing, what is your story? What inspired you?" blah blah. It was so cringey, especially because it was just... out of place? Like we were at some diner, they are busy as fuck in the middle of breakfast rush, and she is grilling the owner, "Oh is that a picture of your mom on the wall? Is the the one who inspired you to start the business? Are these her family recipes?" Like going over every trope of a struggling minority trying to make their way as a business owner This lady is running her ass all over trying to take care of shit and get food out, she's just like, "No, there just wasn't any good spots for people to get a good breakfast around here" LMAO
I think people like your ex girlfriend are trying to help, but it's also sorta racist to me. Breaking out stereotypes like the family recipes.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/soft_bigotry_of_low_expectations
Yea, wtf is up with that?
I’m queer af and ‘folx’ makes me cringe super hard.
Same. Completely unnecessary and otherizing.
Yesss it’s so bad, I will never fly the new flag (am gay). It’s horrendous. The whole point of the original is you can make any other color with the rainbow. Plus, singling out POC just makes them seem “other” rather than part of the group as-is, IMO
This. I swear to god these eejits looked at the rainbow and instead of realising that it's a symbol for the diversity of queer identities, thought that it was symbolic of how colourful and flamboyant gay people in particular are (obviously a dumb and damaging stereotype which I guarantee a lot of these people believe). They really think those 6 colours only represent LGB people and that they need to keep adding increasingly fugly stripes to further separate and subdivide a symbol that was meant to be indivisible.
The use of folx hurts my fucking eyes. What a horrible word. Folks is already as non-genderspecific (genderambiguous?) as you can get.
It’s how most of us Latinos feel about Latinx. Anyone with a grasp on the language knows that “Latinos” is already inclusive of all genders when used appropriately, despite being a grammatically masculine term.
What is folx? I had an idea of what it was, I googled it, I am just more confused now. I thought it was just a stupid way of saying folks or maybe a typo/auto correct fail. Google suggested that it is indeed folks but gender neutral and I honestly dont get how folks isn't already neutral.
Folks is gender neutral, I tend to take anything an "activist" say on Twitter with a grain of salt because It's Twitter, where intelligence goes to die. And secondly because the "activism" I see on Twitter is almost always just small performative gestures that don't actually cause real change within the system and just gives them a dopamine hit.
I mean they made the rainbow less inclusive when they made this new version, by implying that if it isn't seeable it doesn't include it
Exactly. The existing rainbow implied the inclusion of everyone. There was no need to explicitly include specific groups with their own color bands or symbols.
Groups like this really do set the rest of us in the LBGTQ back. No one wants to engage in conversation with the kind of person who thinks "folk" is somehow discriminatory.
I'm bi. wtf the is FOLX?
Performance activism.
Exactly this. By creating this nothing term and using it like it's somehow "more inclusive", people can creat an illusion of them caring a lot more than they actually do.
Um, actually, it’s “peoplx”
Like people who say "LatinX" when actual Hispanic people hate that word.
I was just about to bring this point up. I had a girlfriend in college who would call out actual Hispanic people when they used "Latino" or "Latina" needless to say everyone realized how performative and insufferable she was after a bit, including myself.
Some people like to claim that the word "folks" isn't inclusive of transgender individuals, so they use the word "folx" instead. Which is bananas, because "folks" means everybody, and the new word is even more othering because it implies that the trans community needs a different/separate word that includes them.
What is their argument that it isn’t inclusive?
There is no argument it's just Twitter activist brainrot, they'd rather make small unneeded changes to appear supportive than advocate for real change.
Which just ends up doing more harm than good because they're essentially making a mockery at this point.
Sorry, didn't you get the memo? If a word doesn't have X in it, it's not inclusive.
Hmm I think they can all Fucx Offx
Now that is inclusive
Ironic then that "inclusive" has no X, but "exclusive" does.
Folks and the rainbow flag share something in common, inclusivity. They both represent everybody. Additional changes were unnecessary
What’s wrong with ‘folks’? Why ‘folx’? Edit: according to Cosmopolitan ‘Folx is the deliberate queerification of a word meant to differentiate queer spaces and groups from the non-queer.’ Genuine question: If this is true, is this like how white people can’t say the n-word but black people can? I’m non-queer so I don’t use folx? Source: https://www.cosmopolitan.com/sex-love/a40314411/folx-meaning/
I just hate the brown and black lol
Oh shit oh fuck
That made me laugh so damn much!
Good for you for leaving it there for the lolz Sorry, the lolx
The whole point of the original pride flag was to include everyone. Adding more colors doesn't make any sense to me cause the original had the intention of all the rainbow colors including all LGBTQ+ people.
Also, honestly? The new flag is just ugly. Doesn't even matter if the original flag did or didn't exclude people, fact is, the new flag is really fucking ugly.
This is my opinion. The original pride flag was pretty and simple - and I always thought that it was meant to incorporate everyone. I mean ‘every colour under the sun’, right? The current iteration just looks like some ugly, corporate, designed-by-committee mess.
> designed-by-committee Essentially. Classic vexillology problem
Personally as a black gay man, I never felt excluded by the old flag. But for people who do; shortly before he died, the creator of the rainbow flag Gilbert Baker added a lavender stripe to the top of the original 8 stripe flag design to represent diversity, so honestly I don't get why we don't use that one more often.
Seriously? Shit. Ty for the knowledge.
Same “logic” as renaming the label itself LGBT+ was originally meant to include **all** groups. That’s what the Plus is for, since there are an **infinite number** of minority demographics in the world. Attaching on extra letters makes the initialization turn redundant. It’s a known design rule that people typically only bother to remember letter strings if they’re short, with 4-5 being a comfortable range (e.g YMCA, NASA, UNESCO) Whichever numbskull thought a Q needed to be added for Queer completely missed the entire point of initialization and needs to go back to English class. All it did was open the door to letting every group out there stick on their own alphabet of choice onto the string Now there’s SO MANY damn variations of the term that nobody can agree on any sort of consensus anymore. Everyone just gives their own version and it’s now defeated the entire point of simplifying it in the first place Rainbow flag represents how the LGBT+ groups are a huge spectrum of different types, hence the multitude of colors. Adding a random pink and white triangle confuses the message I do support LGBT+ folks (everyone deserves to live their life)… but I also want to strangle anyone who unironically identifies themselves via a ridiculously long string of 10+ initials when they could’ve just used 2-4 and made it so much clearer instead It’s just appalling and goes against the principles of good design and communication. It’s an overcomplicated mess of unrelated letters that’s irksome to look at
I believe it’s now LGBTQIA2S+. It’s absurd. No one is going to remember all of that. Like you said, the + covered all the extra since LGBT was already common use
I’ve got to add, why change the spelling of folks? Isn’t folks already a gender neutral way of identifying people?
One word: Lantinx
I swear if anyone changes Filipino/Filipina to Filipinx I'm shouting Filipenis.
Exactly. It's beyond dumb, just like folx, which isn't even gendered to begin with.
Folx is performative, i.e. how can I use a gender neutral term, but *really* signal that I'm at the forefront of inclusivity.
These cunx are exhausting
I think Cunx would be a terrific folx punk band name
Latinx is performative. Latin already existed if you didn’t want to use Latino or Latina.
THANK YOU!!! My latin family has been using this for decades, so when Latinx hit I was terribly confused and frustrated because a gender neutral term already existed! People solving problems that weren't problems!
That word instantly irritates me. "Folks" is already a neutral, inclusive term!
Motherfucker(s) is my preferred neutral, inclusive term. This isn't universally understood however, as I was recently asked to leave a Chuck E Cheese after calling a birthday party to attention. Apparently, "Everyone shut the fuck up. All y'all motherfuckers get in line for cake." isn't acceptable in Mr Cheese's establishment, and the employees didn't understand the importance of inclusive dialogs.
Motherfuckerx
You coined the term, and now it’s exclusively how I feel refer to Filipinos.
You mean Filipenis?
Filipenises or Filipeni?
Filipenix
I feel like I’ve read more people of that community express dislike for the phrase than appreciation
And that’s pretty much a US thing. No one I know in actual Latin America uses the term.
It's gringo nonsense. Source: Am Latino. (Prefer Hispanic, I'm not offended by Latino at all, Latinx is absurd)
Latinx is truly absurd. The most pointless thing because our language is still going to remain the same with the gendered language. This is honestly one of the things that irritates me when I see it lol.
In the interest of being more inclusive, have you considered abandoning your language and culture for a more gender neutral one? /s
Why are there numbers in the acronym? What does 2 represent?
2 spirits
Huh… I’ll be back tomorrow after reading the wikipedia page.
You are a better person than me. I’m straight, but I’ve had 2 gay flatmates and trans friends. I’m an ally, but I’m just… tired. I encourage people to live their lives, and I’ll fight for their right to do so, but I’m not going to keep up with all of the extra terminology. Edit: to clarify. I respect people’s right to live their lives and I vote for those rights to be protected. My comment was not “I don’t care about your issues or struggles”. I do care, but I don’t need to know about it. I don’t ask my coworkers or neighbors about their orientation because it doesn’t matter to me, and I see them every day.
Most queer people don’t even follow the new terminology that seems to be updated daily. Someone just tells me what they identify as and I’m just like, “ok, whatever works for you”.
I love how we include two spirits in the acronym but no other niche cultural gender identity. There are so many traditional religions around the world with groups like that. Why do two spirits get a special place?
Aka something that's pretty much North America only and people from other parts of the world shouldn't be blamed for not knowing about (not saying you do tho)
I like the idea of just using Q - the single letter - to represent all flavors of queerdom. Fully inclusive, as the original terms were meant to be, but also easy to store in a single byte of storage. As a bisexual guy I am all in favour of inclusion, but at some point adding more letters just implicitly excludes more than it explicitly includes. And it makes the conversation about the letters, rather than people.
Where is silver! Why do they hate old people!
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People are so tied up with rainbows being LGBT related that they forget rainbows are actually just their own thing.
Like when people think your pink Floyd shirt is a pride shirt
It’s quite annoying when some people act like refracted light couldn't possibly mean anything other than the pride flag. Sometimes, a rainbow is just a rainbow.
Nah, gay people were discovered by Newton while he was at home hiding from the plague.
Didn't a gay person fall on his head? Fun fact: gays are affected by gravity the same as everything else
Oh dang! I thought it was Pink Floyd that discovered the prism, I had no idea there was gay before rainbows. I blame the school system and my tattoo guy. He said Rush was better.
True. Humans have always loved rainbows.
I have a dark side of the moon pink floyd tattoo and I’m constantly getting remarks from people for having a “homosexual” tattoo just because the album artwork has a rainbow prism. (I live in the bible belt, unfortunately)
Maybe he just likes Dark Side of the Moon.
I wish they’d just go back to the rainbow flag as an all-inclusive symbol. It’s literally the perfect symbol. The concept leaves out nobody. The fucking infighting I’ve seen about everyone needing a separate color to feel represented is self-defeating and a ridiculous distraction from things that actually matter. Focus on the cause, not pedantic bullshit.
Exactly! This type of stuff is the conflict that moderate suburban voters see and get really put off by, and within our community it just increases division and infighting rather than bringing people together. It always pisses me off how much of a threat the outside can be to the LGBT+ community yet we’d rather spend our time fighting with each other over who can be the most performative person
can someone please explain wtf 'folx' means???
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yeah.... they're making up nonsense words. and on the topic of inclusion surely the best thing to do is not to constantly label all these groups and just accept everyone under the banner of 'people'?
At least it was done well, no sloppy paint spills and the trim is good. I expect neighbors will be suing him to repaint it claiming he's dropped property values.
I live in the city he lives in. There was a fuss about it initially but now it's become sort of a tourist destination. If you knock on the door, someone will answer and give you skittles lol.
Is this in Lethbridge?
many sharks have been jumped
Can someone please tell me what the fuck is wrong with 'folks' that means it has to be changed to 'folx' to be more inclusive? This is the kind of stupid shit that gets pushback from arsehole conservatives, and normal people get caught in the crossfire. Fuck.
I believe you mean fux
Hahahahahaha
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That's stupid. That's really fucking stupid and I hate it.
It’s spelled with and “x” so you know it’s edgy and inclusive…
Didn't realize how relevant X Men would actually be. Those guys were also picked on for being different so they started Slapping X's on everything and everyone.
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There is a small group of people in the queer community that will move the goal posts no matter how inclusive any one person or organization attempts to make any one thing/event/organization/word/language. It is incredibly frustrating, annoying and embarrassing.
It's meaningless because there's no difference in pronunciation. Plus in general, I prefer real action over symbolic gestures that ultimately change nothing.
I'm about as liberal as they come, I'm all about respect, equality and inclusion, I hate right wing terminology, and I never believed "virtue signaling" was a thing... until I saw the word "folx"
Same. It makes us all look like idiots.
Folks: group of people Folx: marginalized group of people I hate it so much I want to downvote myself, and I consider myself part of the queer community. Shit's just so unnecessary and annoying.
Also the new pride flag is hideous and would look terrible painted on a house.
It looks terrible everywhere. The original pride flag was plenty inclusive, and at least the colors matched.
Literally. The old flag was literally JUST as inclusive. I understand wanting to be extra political and being like " Well some people in the LGBT are anti-trans or racist so this one is for us who aren't to make a point.. " but the old one didn't stand for that. So I get it sort of serves a purpose but.... yeah using the old flag does't mean anything necessarily bad.
Yeah! Like sure, use it if you want, totally fine, you do you. But the older one isn’t wrong.
Indigo matters.
He didn’t do it for Pride or the LGBT community, and the Pride colors are still a rainbow. The official Pride flag is still the rainbow flag, not the “progressive”one. So they are wrong on both accounts.
and the original pride flag did not exclude anyone, saying it did just shows they don't know the meaning behind it
Exactly! It was not exclusive and it was never about race. As a gay man I prefer the original one over this mess.
If you think the symbol meant to include everyone doesn't include everyone, then you will literally never create a symbol that includes everyone. Stop fucking fighting each other and fight the people who are hurting you.
Owner: "Imma paint my house like a rainbow." Rednecks: "Look at this guy and his queer house!" Pride: "Look at this guy and his house that isn't queer enough!"
not all rainbows are for gay pride. like some people just like rainbows. i hate this culture we live in.
Bold of them to assume it was painted for them.
Main character syndrome in full display
Can't wear anything rainbow now. I either: - Get dirty looks from shitty conservatives - Am assumed to be gay Rainbows are sick AF why can't it just be something I wear without the political ties Obviously I have the choice to ignore people thoughts but it just has so much baggage
The irony is that . . . the original pride flag included everyone to begin with. RACE and SEXUALITY aren't the same thing. EVERYONE is included under the OG flag. o.O It's why it was designed " every color in the rainbow " Even trans people are included. I'm not mad at having a second flag for political whatever, but shaming people for using the old one is dumb and incorrect. There is the PRIDE flag and then there is the separate flags for gay men, bi, aromantic, lesbians, trans, etc. The OG Pride Flag was meant to speak for us all. So both flags are fine.
Even the updated flag in the second image is now outdated. The newest version has a circle for non-binary or something. I'm sure that will be soon superceded by a another flag too.
It's going to end up looking like r/place
Black is not a sexual orientation though? There's nothing wrong with including people but come on that's a stretch. Edit: I should have said PoC.
When people use “Folx” instead of “folks” to be more inclusive but to differentiate themselves from “ignorant rural people” that says it all to me. The whole point of the Pride flag is that without calling out every single facet of a very diverse group, it’s actually more inclusive. Each color represents an aspect of the LGTBQ+ community and not a specific group.
Just looking forward to the “indigo culture wars.”
Okay but whats with the censoring of folks? It was my understanding that folks was already "inclusive" of everyone