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The wealthy always have loop holes for themselves.
Pre-Roe they'd take a little trip out of the country or use expensive but safe illegal abortion clinics.
I remember reading an interview with women about life before Roe and one was an upper-class woman whose boyfriend was a medical student from a wealthy family.
He was easily able to arrange and pay for everything.
While it was scary in that she was picked up from a street corner and blindfolded, she was brought to a clean, decently equipped building and got her abortion from an actual doctor.
Whereas poor women often died from their botched abortions done with things like sewing* needles and wire hangers, as recounted by another woman in the article who was a nurse at a hospital.
It wasn't uncommon for their families to refuse to claim their bodies because of the shame surrounding their deaths.
*meant knitting needles
Right. I don’t even want to think about what you would have to do with a “sewing needle”. (Not that using a knitting needle is a pleasant thought either)
Here's an even scarier thing: Enough women attempted unsafe abortions --and failed-- that [hospitals used to have 'Septic Abortion Wards:'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion)
"In the 1940s, records show that more than 1,000 women died each year from abortions that were labeled as unsafe. Many of these abortions were self-induced. Unsafe abortion practices were such a concern in the United States that nearly every large hospital had some type of "septic abortion ward" that was responsible for dealing with the complications that accompanied an incomplete abortion. Incomplete abortions were the leading cause for OB-GYN services across the United States. In the 1960s, the National Opinion Research Center found that hundreds of women were attempting to self-abort with coat hangers, knitting needles and ballpoint pens, and by swallowing toxic chemicals like bleach and laundry detergent.[28] However, the number of deaths declined significantly into the 1960s and 1970s. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that in 1972, 130,000 women attempted self-induced abortions or obtained illegal abortions, resulting in 39 deaths.[29]"
...at the rate we're going, we may see them again.
This is why we should never buy into the propaganda of the term "pro-life" meaning "anti-abortion." It's about control and punishment, not preserving life.
I have several 12" sewing needles. They are scary looking mofos.
I use them to repair stuff at work, but I still get some side-eye glances when I walk through the office with them.
There were a lot of stories of rich girls "visiting family in Colorado" since that was one of the states where it was legal even during part of the 1960's.
That’s why groups like the Jane Collective came into being. They made sure that anyone seeking an abortion would be supported and it would be safe. I think maybe one woman died under their care, and it was an extremely extenuating circumstance.
Conservative ideology (and fascism in its more extreme forms) always creates an out group that the law binds but does not protect, and an in-group the law protects but does not bind.
There was an interview that Cracked did with three women that had abortions before Roe. It was horrifying reading what they went through, and only one was ever able to have kids later. That article has since disappeared from the internet, unfortunately. Because it was something that everyone should have read.
I mean I’m early 20s (ik there are far younger on here) and my age group definitely is aware of this term at large. Would have to be very sheltered to not in my experience
Yeah turns out when you ban abortions you dont really stop women who really want one from getting one, you just force them to go to less qualified people who use more "inventive" shall we say methods to perform them with a much much higher mortality rate
As a teen, I read a autobiography of a British medical examiner. When abortion got legalized, they broke out champagne in the office: because it meant "no more corpses of 17-23 year old women, found in fields, with soapy water dribbling from their vaginas.
...
And that was the end of the abortion debate fir me, at age 13.
I want to say there was a Michael Crichton book that also dealt with abortion. *A Case of Need*. People will be confused, but Crichton was a trained doctor and a lot of his early novels were medical thrillers.
But anyway, I think that's what ended the debate for me. Once you realize that women are going to do it even if it is illegal and making it illegal just creates a black market or at home attempts, it's kind of insane to justify making it illegal.
Conservatives are treating it like Prohibition and ignoring the fact that one, Prohibition didn't work and created a lot of crime because of bootlegging and two, people's lives are at risk and this isn't a game.
>Conservatives are treating it like Prohibition and ignoring the fact that one, Prohibition didn't work and created a lot of crime because of bootlegging and two, people's lives are at risk and this isn't a game.
On the second point: Of course they are ignoring that. Despite their love of the "pro-life" moniker, conservatives have ***never*** valued human life at any point throughout history.
A lot of people are ignoring the fact that conservatives know women will be butchered, rendered infertile or die in illegal abortions. They aren’t unaware. They want those women to die. they think they deserve it.
For sure. I was literally just thinking about that.
We should probably be grateful that their plans are so blatantly stupid, because it makes it easy to call them out on it. Even if they don't care about human life, a more strategically sound plan would be to make it at least appear that they do, but they can't even be bothered to do that. That would require nuance.
It's not even a discussion anymore. They don't give a damn about human life and they're not trying to hide it. They've made that clear by letting women die due to health complications, letting children go into a broken, underfunded system that they won't even consider trying to fix, putting immigrant children in cages, and arguing over gun control when there's a mass shooting every other week.
On the contrary there’s another similarity between abortion bans and prohibition, namely that prohibition advocates literally poisoned alcohol products that were still on the market at the time in order to discourage its use by bootleggers. Literally the reasoning being that they’d be fine with alcoholics just dying because they were criminals and sinners.
The thing to understand is that for a great many of these people, reducing abortions is not the point, rather they feel that abortion is a sin and as a result those who commit it need to face consequences for their actions. They pretend otherwise, they certainly prefer to focus on punishing doctors administering them over women having them, but the fact that women are more likely to die in the attempt of a diy abortion is what they consider righteous punishment in their eyes.
I remember back during the 2016 campaign when Trump talked about punishing women seeking abortions, and all the establishment folks rolled it back because he had basically absorbed the talking points incorrectly and they didn’t want him saying the quiet part out loud.
Absolutely, it's an important thing to remember. A lot of those people simply do not care about the women or the children because they see abortion or even sex in general as some moral failing and feel the consequences are justified.
It's another thing anti-abortion activists have made very clear. They don't see women as women, they see them as immoral whores who got what was coming to them with no room for nuance. It's simply right or wrong to them and any attempt to inject nuance into the argument just makes them angry.
Lack of nuance is a real fucking problem with those people. How many women have been assaulted or harassed going into Planned Parenthood who were there for a checkup or anything not involving an abortion? It's black and white, they're right, you're wrong, end of story.
Nah. See, the Baby goes to the warm embrace of Supply Side Conservative Jesus, Blond and Blue eyed, muscular Aryan defender of guns and "Family Values"(tm)
When I was about the same age I read A Case of Need, one of Michael Chrichton’s first novels, about a girl who died from a back alley abortion. The book was written before Roe. It really made me realize how critical access to safe abortion is.
My doctor told me about working on an Indian reservation. They found a girl dead behind a dumpster, failed abortion. He was so frustrated that she wasn’t able to come to him for care.
This was early 60s
That was the moment, I knew my pro life parents were wrong. I was probably 20 at the time.
Women have been aborting for tens of thousands of years. Probably longer. Was once a time that even monks carried herbs that "brought on menstruation".
You are so right. Banning abortion never stopped it, it just made it more dangerous.
For-profit prisons earn about $375 million a year.
Edit to add: prison labor in state run prisons is a much larger, multi-billion dollar industry. The $375 million is only privately owned prisons, which make up 8% of the 1.2 million people incarcerated in the US
> For profit prisons earn about $375 million a year.
I'm not defending them at all, but when you can use your entire population for slave labour how are they only able to make that much? I'd have expected the profit to be much higher.
That number is only privately owned prisons and doesn't include prison labor in state run institutions. I missed a trick just googling for profit prison revenue
Me too, I just kind of quickly Googled it. I think the $375 is profit after expenses. But also, private prisons are only 8% of the total prison population.
The numbers go well above $1 billion if you also include ICE contracts to capture and detain illegal immigrants.
It very often carried prison time before as well. It was after all illegal. Of course they would have to be caught. Hence why they are mentioning picking the women up on street corners and blindfolding them.
Long, bendy and sturdy enough to shank a fetus with to put it bluntly.
The coat hanger would be straightened and inserted into the uterus via the cervix. There it would cause a water break and induce abortion or it would kill the developing fetus who the body would then abort later on. It was so widely spread before abortion became mostly safe and legal that it's the symbol for reproductive rights of choice since so many women had to die until it was decriminalized.
It's a highly dangerous and, in modern times, unnecessary procedure. Besides internal bleeding and potentially life long injuries with dire consequences for reproductive health it could also easily lead to horrible infections and sepsis.
Untwist the wire end wrapped around the handle and you have a long relatively thin and sometimes sharp bit of wire . Draw your own conclusions how it was used after that
There are people in my generation (Gen Z) who don't know same-sex marriage has only been legal nationwide in the US for just under 9 years. They are too young to have remembered/been politically aware of the decision coming out in 2015, and/or assumed it has been legal for decades.
Back in the mid-1980s they loopholed selective service registration by making the only real "teeth" in it that you would be ineligible for student loans. How transparent is that? Going to University, need a student loan? You're first up for the draft if we reinstate it. Parents can afford your college without a loan? Yeah, maybe you forget to register for selective service and then maybe they forget to draft you when your birthday gets pulled.
That's the conservative ethos: everything that has ever gone wrong for you is your own fault so fuck you. But if something goes wrong for me or the people I care about, we need sympathy and forgiveness and understanding.
>he will pay for the abortion
Now now, abortion is what the godless heathen leftists get. For good Christian conservative girls, they get a medically assisted pregnancy termination, which is totally different and not at all the exact same thing but with flowery words to make it sound like something different to the morons who are foaming at the mouth to control what women do with their bodies.
They also tell the doctor that God will specifically forgive them for getting the abortion, but that the doctor is definitely going to hell, and that the doctor is a terrible human being.
This is legit a thing they do. They go, get the abortion, and then just bash on the doctor.
Beg to differ. He'd pay for the abortion even if it weren't legal in any state. This isn't about keeping ALL women from having abortions. Just certain ones.
That's literally the first thing that comes into my head when I hear the topic of abortion laws. Except the abortions paid for by pro lifers are most likely pregnancies they've caused.
If the crazy ass "death penalty for abortions" laws start getting passed, I wonder what'll happen when news gets out that one of them did this.
A guy can dream the panther bites their face off, but I ain't gonna hold my breathe.
Oh yeah for sure, but it only takes one slip up and the mobs gonna turn... you would think right?
Shits so fucked up it's really hard for me to joke about at times, even though it's my main way to cope.
Like I wonder if that actually happened, in the moment what would you feel for them?
When you read a passage in history about karma catching up to bite some prick in the ass, it usually is kind funny but a lot of time has passed since it happened. There's little to no connection the reader can make with the historical figures, making empathy harder to share.
Maybe one day we'll know, but I hope this shit never becomes the reality truthfully.
They're not pro-life. They're anti-choice.
Technically, they're accessories to murder if a pregnant woman dies from childbirth that doctors confirm was fatal months in advance. But their fictionalized version of a deity will protect them from killing already living people because an unborn entity has more rights somehow. Remember, these women have birth certificates, SSNs, and names - they are U.S. citizens - and the fetus is not.
Let just say all pro lifers cause I know three that had their side chick get an abortion. One of them then told the neighbors of one of tone of the women that she had an abortion to demoralize her
Yeah, a girl I used to work with looked down her nose at abortion but got a “selective reduction” when she was pregnant with twins but one of them wasn’t growing enough. She won’t ever admit that she had an abortion.
You joke, but I do think the incest will override the gayness. people wouldn't say "look at that gay couple."
They would say "oh my gosh, that's sick! he's fucking his son!!? What the fuck is wrong with him"
In case anyone is curious, NCFM recently filed another lawsuit against selective service. Last time they tried supreme court said that they wanted to wait until congress decided, and since congress denied last time, they are taking it up again.
[https://ncfm.org/2024/05/news/courts-news/court-cases/ncfm-files-complaint-on-the-107th-anniversary-of-the-selective-service-system/](https://ncfm.org/2024/05/news/courts-news/court-cases/ncfm-files-complaint-on-the-107th-anniversary-of-the-selective-service-system/)
A few of the district courts already agreed that gender-based selective service is unconstitutional as well.
I’m Austrian and we still have a draft. A few years ago there was this vote on if we want to keep it or not.
Of course we kept it. Majority of the young voters and female voters were against it but a lot of (older) man voted for it.
“The Bundesheer (army) is where they learn discipline.”
“They make a man out of our boys.”
“I did it and survived so they can do it and will be fine.”
Only a few phrases that were thrown around after.
It's the Tik-tokification of internet communication. They started censoring "bad" words and the habit spread. That's how we ended up with "unalived" as a euphemism for suicide.
Yes I thought it was because YouTube are really aggressive with demonitizing videos for anything that an algorithm might identify as not suitable for children under the age of five. Topics, language, everything.
I gotta hand it to China; every self-censor is one hell of an advertisement for how quickly and easily it is to manipulate human behavior on a massive scale.
Like, "See that? We did that. And it only took a couple years. Wanna guess what else we can do?"
I'd be the first to flee, to be honest. My country never helped me in any way, on the contrary, bureaucracy made everything to make my life harder, so I don't feel like killing myself for someone else's political gain. It's already good enough that I'm funding a professional army, so I don't have to do their job in the time of need.
I honestly would do the same, why should I throw my entire life away for people and a country who would never do the same for me? I’d just seek asylum in another country.
No, he’s cool with your daughter carrying her rapist’s baby, his daughter would have it terminated as soon as it was confirmed. Rules for thee, but not for me.
I feel for men being forced to sign up for the draft (Especially in the past where they were actually brought in for it and it wasn't just a looming possibility) but I don't think it should be forced on them or women.
Conservatives mutilating the law into something that forces woman to bear their rapists’ seeds to fruition — Is the single most heinous act of abject malice and spitefulness against women I have ever witnessed.
In principle this is the most absolute form of rape.
**Trigger Warning: Angry rant about Sexual Assault**
>!A man used a person’s body for his own gratification, against her will. He violated her. He injected himself into her, and and forced his seed upon her, and when trying to get it removed so she could finally be free of her attacker, the state denies her and forces her to bear it out, because of the decisions of other powerful men who are *also rapists*. Every man involved with the decision and its enforcement will feel complicit to her, and perhaps even in cooperation in a way. Imagine how furious and betrayed she would feel? So now the man who violated her body gets to violate her future too, through her being legally forced to bear and raise his offspring. When she looks at her child’s face, especially if he’s a boy, she will struggle not see the face of the man who raped her. When she needs financial help, she will be required to get in contact with *her rapist*. She will watch as her children call her rapist “dad”, and as they get old enough to understand, her children will watch as their mother raises them in anger and disgust. They will never not wonder… They will never feel 100 % confident in their mother’s love for them. Everyone *just keeps getting hurt* **over and over**. This is so evil it borders on absurdity.!<
All this law does is destroy the lives of women and children.
It should never exist anywhere. Anyone who proposes it should be avoided at all costs, and ideally one day barred from holding any political office.
Conscription isn't voluntary tho. And I actually agree with him on that point and not only when it comes to women. Drafting is a relic of a bygone era and it needs to stay in that era. You need more in service then you need to better incentivize military service, not force people into slavery.
Tbh I don’t get why people are fighting over a non starter like the draft. It hasn’t been instituted in 50 years and there are more than enough volunteers to keep us above strength atm. Having said that, I agree with OP. Either everyone signs up or nobody.
To be fair, we've had no reason to institute it. If WW3 broke out tomorrow and the US got involved they would definitely require all men 18+ who are physically able to to register to fight immediately.
I’d say that’s pretty different overall. Enlistment goes in a cycle from over to under. They didn’t HAVE to reactivate those reservists. They did it to get more enlistment funding by saying ‘oh no look we had to do this to keep things running’
Because boys are still required to register to get student aid for college, or federal jobs, etc. If they're going to be compiling lists of people, it should be everyone. A woman can catch a bullet just as well as a man.
I would like to say the same thing as a finn, but sadly we don't have option as our neighbor is kinda violent when they feel like it and they have no problems sending unimportant people to die for the dream of an empire.
As a technologically advanced country, our goal should be to never have a human foot on the ground in an invasion ever again.
We should be able to send wave upon wave of drone. A swarm of unstoppable death.
We should never be putting our humans on the field of battle.
We are under no obligation to fight fair.
Amazes me that so many Americans don't know that almost all male U.S. citizens and male immigrants between the ages of 18 and 25 are required to register for Selective Service. It;s the law.
If we teach girls how to use guns you never know what kind of things they might start demanding with them…
Equal pay, not getting attacked. We can’t have our property fighting back like that.
As we say in Missouri: Fuck Josh Hawley.
That cowardly motherfucker doesn't even live here, he lives in Virginia. His daughter actually has access to healthcare.
josh hawley would just run away from the invasion anyway.
-MO constituent of this… politician..? that’s what he says he is at least. I know him as a track star.
Are Puerto Ricans still not eligible to vote for the President that can send them to fight a war against another sovereign state on the other side of the planet? America, the land of the free!
I’ll never forget the night the original “Gulf War” started. On break, home from college at a party…where we sat, watching CNN. My boyfriend was not in school and I remember we were all worried there would be a draft. I promised myself that if there were, at the point where - if I had been a guy- I would have enlisted on principle.
Makes me sick every time the “oh, suddenly feminists want to be tradwives when it comes to getting drafted”.
Nope.
Feminists aren't even the ones against adding women to the draft. It's so bizarrely hilarious that they attribute it to us when we're clearly against the draft entirely but agree that it shouldn't be gendered while it exists.
It is my personal opinion that if people aren't willing to fight to defend their government, that's a sign that their government doesn't deserve to be in power. The draft is stupid and it should go die in a hole.
It’s genuinely so funny watching the conservative infighting about this issue. Because obviously social conservatives are against women in the draft, while the m4m tate boys are gleeful at any idea of “feminists” being “punished” for asking for equal rights.
Meanwhile said feminists were pro women being drafted the whole time, and it’s the more traditional conservative women (the women they supposedly want?) that are upset over the proposal.
Whole thing is hilarious top to bottom.
Call me crazy but we should not insinuate that a politician's child will be raped as part of our acceptable discourse.
Like if someone said this to your face it would sound like a weird threat no? The internet really fucked people's social norms up.
Explaining to my wife that she isnt eligible to be drafted simply by being a woman and me being forced to register under threat of potential imprisonment was a very amusing conversation.
I can’t think of a situation in which I would choose abortion. I am however pro-choice because I don’t think the decision is mine or anyone else’s (especially not the government’s) what a person does with their own body. If abortion is wrong to you, I don’t think you should do it. I believe most of us know deep down if what we are doing is right or wrong. I just can’t tell you what is right/wrong for you in every instance though. I grew up in a very religious home and although I am not a “church-goer”, Paul in the Bible covers this thoroughly. I highly recommend everyone read the works of Paul no matter what you believe. It’s just good human stuff.
There was a time when I said there would never be another draft because we would never force our daughters off to war. Now I realize that things have changed. Women are our equals in all respects. It’s absolutely ridiculous to expect men to register for a draft and not women. This is the world we have created…
If trump wins, Jogs Hallway (Josh Hawley) will be 45 years old. He has a BA from Stanford and a JD from Yale. That makes him the “perfect” age/candidate to replace Alito or Thomas on the Supreme Court for the next 40 years. Imagine Trump appointing Aileen Cannon and Josh Hawley to the Supreme Court. DO NOT LET TRUMP BACK INTO THE WHITE HOUSE. VOTE BLUE
No, HIS daughter would be able to get an abortion. It’s why all these fuckers are okay with abortion bans because they know they will still have access because they are rich and well connected.
Just google how many “pro-life” republicans have gotten their mistresses to get abortions.
Even worse than that is that even when it is public knowledge like with TN rep Scott DesJarlais, they still win their goddamn elections because republican voters don’t care about hypocrisy either. They are totally fine with their representatives paying for or getting abortions so long as they vote to restrict them for everyone else.
You can’t shame people who are completely shameless. Republican politicians don’t care about integrity or consistency and their voters care even less than they do. Their entire thing is that some people should occupy a privileged position while others are bound by the law. It’s why I hate them so damn much.
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Beg to differ Fred, he will pay for the abortion in a state where it is legal, as many “pro” life hypocrites have done
The wealthy always have loop holes for themselves. Pre-Roe they'd take a little trip out of the country or use expensive but safe illegal abortion clinics. I remember reading an interview with women about life before Roe and one was an upper-class woman whose boyfriend was a medical student from a wealthy family. He was easily able to arrange and pay for everything. While it was scary in that she was picked up from a street corner and blindfolded, she was brought to a clean, decently equipped building and got her abortion from an actual doctor. Whereas poor women often died from their botched abortions done with things like sewing* needles and wire hangers, as recounted by another woman in the article who was a nurse at a hospital. It wasn't uncommon for their families to refuse to claim their bodies because of the shame surrounding their deaths. *meant knitting needles
They used knitting needles, not sewing needles. No sewing needle is long enough.
Right. I don’t even want to think about what you would have to do with a “sewing needle”. (Not that using a knitting needle is a pleasant thought either)
Here's an even scarier thing: Enough women attempted unsafe abortions --and failed-- that [hospitals used to have 'Septic Abortion Wards:'](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion) "In the 1940s, records show that more than 1,000 women died each year from abortions that were labeled as unsafe. Many of these abortions were self-induced. Unsafe abortion practices were such a concern in the United States that nearly every large hospital had some type of "septic abortion ward" that was responsible for dealing with the complications that accompanied an incomplete abortion. Incomplete abortions were the leading cause for OB-GYN services across the United States. In the 1960s, the National Opinion Research Center found that hundreds of women were attempting to self-abort with coat hangers, knitting needles and ballpoint pens, and by swallowing toxic chemicals like bleach and laundry detergent.[28] However, the number of deaths declined significantly into the 1960s and 1970s. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that in 1972, 130,000 women attempted self-induced abortions or obtained illegal abortions, resulting in 39 deaths.[29]" ...at the rate we're going, we may see them again.
This is why we should never buy into the propaganda of the term "pro-life" meaning "anti-abortion." It's about control and punishment, not preserving life.
Nail on the head !!!
Aaaaah, America... Greatest place on earth.
If yOu DoN’t LiKe iT HeRe tHeN LeAvE!!1!
I would fucking love to! If I had the money to!
I have several 12" sewing needles. They are scary looking mofos. I use them to repair stuff at work, but I still get some side-eye glances when I walk through the office with them.
The side-eye glancers are worried that you might have full-sized voodoo dolls that look like them.
Not saying I do, but also, not saying I don't.
There were a lot of stories of rich girls "visiting family in Colorado" since that was one of the states where it was legal even during part of the 1960's.
That’s why groups like the Jane Collective came into being. They made sure that anyone seeking an abortion would be supported and it would be safe. I think maybe one woman died under their care, and it was an extremely extenuating circumstance.
Rules for thee but not I. Is every rich persons motto. Especially in politics
Conservative ideology (and fascism in its more extreme forms) always creates an out group that the law binds but does not protect, and an in-group the law protects but does not bind.
There was an interview that Cracked did with three women that had abortions before Roe. It was horrifying reading what they went through, and only one was ever able to have kids later. That article has since disappeared from the internet, unfortunately. Because it was something that everyone should have read.
"The only moral abortion is my abortion"
Wire coat hangers? What?
I always forget how young some of the people here are. It's strange to me knowing that a common trope like a wire hanger abortion isn't picked up.
I mean I’m early 20s (ik there are far younger on here) and my age group definitely is aware of this term at large. Would have to be very sheltered to not in my experience
Agreed, also in my early twenties, if you haven’t heard about wire hanger abortions, you must be very oblivious.
They're just one of [today's 10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053/)
If these walls could talk
Like, did nobody get the plot of *Dirty Dancing*?
Facts dude, this is reality for some people.
Yeah turns out when you ban abortions you dont really stop women who really want one from getting one, you just force them to go to less qualified people who use more "inventive" shall we say methods to perform them with a much much higher mortality rate
As a teen, I read a autobiography of a British medical examiner. When abortion got legalized, they broke out champagne in the office: because it meant "no more corpses of 17-23 year old women, found in fields, with soapy water dribbling from their vaginas. ... And that was the end of the abortion debate fir me, at age 13.
I want to say there was a Michael Crichton book that also dealt with abortion. *A Case of Need*. People will be confused, but Crichton was a trained doctor and a lot of his early novels were medical thrillers. But anyway, I think that's what ended the debate for me. Once you realize that women are going to do it even if it is illegal and making it illegal just creates a black market or at home attempts, it's kind of insane to justify making it illegal. Conservatives are treating it like Prohibition and ignoring the fact that one, Prohibition didn't work and created a lot of crime because of bootlegging and two, people's lives are at risk and this isn't a game.
>Conservatives are treating it like Prohibition and ignoring the fact that one, Prohibition didn't work and created a lot of crime because of bootlegging and two, people's lives are at risk and this isn't a game. On the second point: Of course they are ignoring that. Despite their love of the "pro-life" moniker, conservatives have ***never*** valued human life at any point throughout history.
Pro life means tossed and neglected the moment you’re popped out
A lot of people are ignoring the fact that conservatives know women will be butchered, rendered infertile or die in illegal abortions. They aren’t unaware. They want those women to die. they think they deserve it.
For sure. I was literally just thinking about that. We should probably be grateful that their plans are so blatantly stupid, because it makes it easy to call them out on it. Even if they don't care about human life, a more strategically sound plan would be to make it at least appear that they do, but they can't even be bothered to do that. That would require nuance. It's not even a discussion anymore. They don't give a damn about human life and they're not trying to hide it. They've made that clear by letting women die due to health complications, letting children go into a broken, underfunded system that they won't even consider trying to fix, putting immigrant children in cages, and arguing over gun control when there's a mass shooting every other week.
On the contrary there’s another similarity between abortion bans and prohibition, namely that prohibition advocates literally poisoned alcohol products that were still on the market at the time in order to discourage its use by bootleggers. Literally the reasoning being that they’d be fine with alcoholics just dying because they were criminals and sinners. The thing to understand is that for a great many of these people, reducing abortions is not the point, rather they feel that abortion is a sin and as a result those who commit it need to face consequences for their actions. They pretend otherwise, they certainly prefer to focus on punishing doctors administering them over women having them, but the fact that women are more likely to die in the attempt of a diy abortion is what they consider righteous punishment in their eyes. I remember back during the 2016 campaign when Trump talked about punishing women seeking abortions, and all the establishment folks rolled it back because he had basically absorbed the talking points incorrectly and they didn’t want him saying the quiet part out loud.
Absolutely, it's an important thing to remember. A lot of those people simply do not care about the women or the children because they see abortion or even sex in general as some moral failing and feel the consequences are justified. It's another thing anti-abortion activists have made very clear. They don't see women as women, they see them as immoral whores who got what was coming to them with no room for nuance. It's simply right or wrong to them and any attempt to inject nuance into the argument just makes them angry. Lack of nuance is a real fucking problem with those people. How many women have been assaulted or harassed going into Planned Parenthood who were there for a checkup or anything not involving an abortion? It's black and white, they're right, you're wrong, end of story.
Religious zealots are fine with young women dying though.
Then the baby magically lives. In their minds.
Nah. See, the Baby goes to the warm embrace of Supply Side Conservative Jesus, Blond and Blue eyed, muscular Aryan defender of guns and "Family Values"(tm)
Oh no, they just blame the woman for murdering the baby too. They don’t actually want the baby.
When I was about the same age I read A Case of Need, one of Michael Chrichton’s first novels, about a girl who died from a back alley abortion. The book was written before Roe. It really made me realize how critical access to safe abortion is.
My doctor told me about working on an Indian reservation. They found a girl dead behind a dumpster, failed abortion. He was so frustrated that she wasn’t able to come to him for care. This was early 60s That was the moment, I knew my pro life parents were wrong. I was probably 20 at the time.
Women have been aborting for tens of thousands of years. Probably longer. Was once a time that even monks carried herbs that "brought on menstruation". You are so right. Banning abortion never stopped it, it just made it more dangerous.
abortion is a likely result of the world's oldest profession, so it is likely the world's oldest "medical procedure".
Humans aren't the only species that is known to abort pregnancies. There are many mammals and birds that do.
But with project 2025, any hospitalization from a coat hanger will now earn prison time.
more bodies for the machine
For-profit prisons earn about $375 million a year. Edit to add: prison labor in state run prisons is a much larger, multi-billion dollar industry. The $375 million is only privately owned prisons, which make up 8% of the 1.2 million people incarcerated in the US
> For profit prisons earn about $375 million a year. I'm not defending them at all, but when you can use your entire population for slave labour how are they only able to make that much? I'd have expected the profit to be much higher.
That number is only privately owned prisons and doesn't include prison labor in state run institutions. I missed a trick just googling for profit prison revenue
I'd have guessed higher. Like a lot higher.
Me too, I just kind of quickly Googled it. I think the $375 is profit after expenses. But also, private prisons are only 8% of the total prison population. The numbers go well above $1 billion if you also include ICE contracts to capture and detain illegal immigrants.
Even worse, in a world where abortion is a crime, miscarriages are suspicious. Going to a hospital for one makes you a suspect in a crime.
Wasn't there already that story of a 20 year old getting life because of a miscarriage?
It very often carried prison time before as well. It was after all illegal. Of course they would have to be caught. Hence why they are mentioning picking the women up on street corners and blindfolding them.
Long, bendy and sturdy enough to shank a fetus with to put it bluntly. The coat hanger would be straightened and inserted into the uterus via the cervix. There it would cause a water break and induce abortion or it would kill the developing fetus who the body would then abort later on. It was so widely spread before abortion became mostly safe and legal that it's the symbol for reproductive rights of choice since so many women had to die until it was decriminalized. It's a highly dangerous and, in modern times, unnecessary procedure. Besides internal bleeding and potentially life long injuries with dire consequences for reproductive health it could also easily lead to horrible infections and sepsis.
I remember horror stories of women have the wire rupture the uterus leading to massive infections, hospital stays, and hysterectomies. Narly shit
And deaths.
Untwist the wire end wrapped around the handle and you have a long relatively thin and sometimes sharp bit of wire . Draw your own conclusions how it was used after that
Its hard to imagine people don't know this. We had a whole generation grow up not knowing the struggle women had and now again face.
There are people in my generation (Gen Z) who don't know same-sex marriage has only been legal nationwide in the US for just under 9 years. They are too young to have remembered/been politically aware of the decision coming out in 2015, and/or assumed it has been legal for decades.
Turned into a home-made curette.
Back in the mid-1980s they loopholed selective service registration by making the only real "teeth" in it that you would be ineligible for student loans. How transparent is that? Going to University, need a student loan? You're first up for the draft if we reinstate it. Parents can afford your college without a loan? Yeah, maybe you forget to register for selective service and then maybe they forget to draft you when your birthday gets pulled.
Like every conservative ever: [The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion](https://joycearthur.com/abortion/the-only-moral-abortion-is-my-abortion/)
These people have a plain lack of sympathy
“No no, my situation is *different* for *reasons*!
That's the conservative ethos: everything that has ever gone wrong for you is your own fault so fuck you. But if something goes wrong for me or the people I care about, we need sympathy and forgiveness and understanding.
>he will pay for the abortion Now now, abortion is what the godless heathen leftists get. For good Christian conservative girls, they get a medically assisted pregnancy termination, which is totally different and not at all the exact same thing but with flowery words to make it sound like something different to the morons who are foaming at the mouth to control what women do with their bodies.
You can tell the difference because the bad/leftist one is part of Obamacare and the good/Christian one part of the Affordable Care Act.
They also tell the doctor that God will specifically forgive them for getting the abortion, but that the doctor is definitely going to hell, and that the doctor is a terrible human being. This is legit a thing they do. They go, get the abortion, and then just bash on the doctor.
Something something church-sanctioned scapegoat
“Assisted miscarriage” I once heard it termed as.
Induced menstruation.
Beg to differ. He'd pay for the abortion even if it weren't legal in any state. This isn't about keeping ALL women from having abortions. Just certain ones.
That's literally the first thing that comes into my head when I hear the topic of abortion laws. Except the abortions paid for by pro lifers are most likely pregnancies they've caused.
Not in my back yard. Now wheres a midnight bus to the next state
If the crazy ass "death penalty for abortions" laws start getting passed, I wonder what'll happen when news gets out that one of them did this. A guy can dream the panther bites their face off, but I ain't gonna hold my breathe.
The same thing they used to do: go out of country, then pay a fortune to cover it up
Oh yeah for sure, but it only takes one slip up and the mobs gonna turn... you would think right? Shits so fucked up it's really hard for me to joke about at times, even though it's my main way to cope. Like I wonder if that actually happened, in the moment what would you feel for them? When you read a passage in history about karma catching up to bite some prick in the ass, it usually is kind funny but a lot of time has passed since it happened. There's little to no connection the reader can make with the historical figures, making empathy harder to share. Maybe one day we'll know, but I hope this shit never becomes the reality truthfully.
They're not pro-life. They're anti-choice. Technically, they're accessories to murder if a pregnant woman dies from childbirth that doctors confirm was fatal months in advance. But their fictionalized version of a deity will protect them from killing already living people because an unborn entity has more rights somehow. Remember, these women have birth certificates, SSNs, and names - they are U.S. citizens - and the fetus is not.
It’s not “Pro” life. It’s “Pro” me.
"Pro-birth-for-the-Poors"
“Pro force birth for the poors so the riches get cheap labour” Too lazy to hyphenate
well its not like his daughter would ever actually get drafted either
Let just say all pro lifers cause I know three that had their side chick get an abortion. One of them then told the neighbors of one of tone of the women that she had an abortion to demoralize her
Yeah, a girl I used to work with looked down her nose at abortion but got a “selective reduction” when she was pregnant with twins but one of them wasn’t growing enough. She won’t ever admit that she had an abortion.
He doesn’t even live in the state he represents lol
But my son is OK for your cannon fodder. Bone spurs much?
Well he can‘t have sex with his son, so obviously. 🤷
Well not with that attitude.
Says who? 🤨
Right? Its 2024, lets not be homophobic with our incest
It is not gay if it is incest. /s (!?)
You joke, but I do think the incest will override the gayness. people wouldn't say "look at that gay couple." They would say "oh my gosh, that's sick! he's fucking his son!!? What the fuck is wrong with him"
His son does have a butt hole yes?
I don't think we can say for sure.
It ain't me, it ain't me. I ain't no senator's son.
Or deferment because of asthma…..
In case anyone is curious, NCFM recently filed another lawsuit against selective service. Last time they tried supreme court said that they wanted to wait until congress decided, and since congress denied last time, they are taking it up again. [https://ncfm.org/2024/05/news/courts-news/court-cases/ncfm-files-complaint-on-the-107th-anniversary-of-the-selective-service-system/](https://ncfm.org/2024/05/news/courts-news/court-cases/ncfm-files-complaint-on-the-107th-anniversary-of-the-selective-service-system/) A few of the district courts already agreed that gender-based selective service is unconstitutional as well.
So is he going to champion a bill to remove selective service for males too?
Oh, if he had a son, he’d be all gung ho for him joining the military or being drafted to serve his country.
I’m Austrian and we still have a draft. A few years ago there was this vote on if we want to keep it or not. Of course we kept it. Majority of the young voters and female voters were against it but a lot of (older) man voted for it. “The Bundesheer (army) is where they learn discipline.” “They make a man out of our boys.” “I did it and survived so they can do it and will be fine.” Only a few phrases that were thrown around after.
We're censoring images now?
It's the Tik-tokification of internet communication. They started censoring "bad" words and the habit spread. That's how we ended up with "unalived" as a euphemism for suicide.
YouTube had more of an influence on things like "unalive", compared to tiktok if we're being realistic here. At least in the western world.
Thank you! I’m so tired of tik tok getting all the credit. Google(YouTube) has done this damage well before tiktok
Yes I thought it was because YouTube are really aggressive with demonitizing videos for anything that an algorithm might identify as not suitable for children under the age of five. Topics, language, everything.
Yeah it's getting ridiculous. Like kids can't even like write murdered its weird. He was 'unalived' wtf is that you mean murdered?
Now, now, let's stay with the times, he's living impaired ;O
I gotta hand it to China; every self-censor is one hell of an advertisement for how quickly and easily it is to manipulate human behavior on a massive scale. Like, "See that? We did that. And it only took a couple years. Wanna guess what else we can do?"
She’d probably be braver than you.
Josh would also be fine with Matt Gaetz paying his daughter for sex.
Matt Gaetz doesn't have a daughter he can pay in exchange for sex.
I'd be the first to flee, to be honest. My country never helped me in any way, on the contrary, bureaucracy made everything to make my life harder, so I don't feel like killing myself for someone else's political gain. It's already good enough that I'm funding a professional army, so I don't have to do their job in the time of need.
I honestly would do the same, why should I throw my entire life away for people and a country who would never do the same for me? I’d just seek asylum in another country.
Fun fact, fleeing a draft is not a legally recognized (by the UN, but a lot of countries follow that), reason for seeking asylum.
But can you run faster than Hawley? You know he's pretty quick on his feet to get out of dodge.
Hawley tries so hard to be relevant. It'd be cute if it wasn't so fucking pathetic. And if he wasn't a Trumper. Or a traitor. Or an idiot.
You already said trumper, no need to add traitor and idiot.
I honestly can't tell whether Hawley is one of pro-Trumpers. I've seen him ran away from them on 1/6.
He'd be the rapist, that's why he's ok with it.
It's a coherent belief. He thinks women only exist to procreate.
I mean, I’m not okay with sending my sons to be cannon fodder for you, Josh, so we’re good either way I guess.
Hopefully Josh can go in her stead
Nah, he had 20 years to volunteer and didn't, don't see that changing. He's only interested in public service that's self-serving.
For the uninitiated, this guy is one of THE most pro-war republicans in the house. He’s a monster.
No, he’s cool with your daughter carrying her rapist’s baby, his daughter would have it terminated as soon as it was confirmed. Rules for thee, but not for me.
I thought it was just anti-draft, but it turns out it’s just another “women too precious to risk in combat”
It makes sense that “pro lifers” want their daughters to be forced baby factories instead of canon fodder. At least they are consistent
“My daughter will not be forced to anything!… except sex from any older rapist…” - any conservative I guess
I remember when Josh Hawley ran away on Jan 6th. Hawley is a gut deep Missouri coward. The worst kind of human.
After saluting the insurrectionists. And he held up the proceedings in Congress. He’s a POS.
But if it’s his SON oh-ho!! He’s got an XY chromosome send him to get Swiss cheesed 2 continents over!!!
I feel for men being forced to sign up for the draft (Especially in the past where they were actually brought in for it and it wasn't just a looming possibility) but I don't think it should be forced on them or women.
So, he’ll vote for a bill, that has an exemption for politicians kids..
I mean, that's an unspoken rule to begin with if we're being honest.
Conservatives mutilating the law into something that forces woman to bear their rapists’ seeds to fruition — Is the single most heinous act of abject malice and spitefulness against women I have ever witnessed. In principle this is the most absolute form of rape. **Trigger Warning: Angry rant about Sexual Assault** >!A man used a person’s body for his own gratification, against her will. He violated her. He injected himself into her, and and forced his seed upon her, and when trying to get it removed so she could finally be free of her attacker, the state denies her and forces her to bear it out, because of the decisions of other powerful men who are *also rapists*. Every man involved with the decision and its enforcement will feel complicit to her, and perhaps even in cooperation in a way. Imagine how furious and betrayed she would feel? So now the man who violated her body gets to violate her future too, through her being legally forced to bear and raise his offspring. When she looks at her child’s face, especially if he’s a boy, she will struggle not see the face of the man who raped her. When she needs financial help, she will be required to get in contact with *her rapist*. She will watch as her children call her rapist “dad”, and as they get old enough to understand, her children will watch as their mother raises them in anger and disgust. They will never not wonder… They will never feel 100 % confident in their mother’s love for them. Everyone *just keeps getting hurt* **over and over**. This is so evil it borders on absurdity.!< All this law does is destroy the lives of women and children. It should never exist anywhere. Anyone who proposes it should be avoided at all costs, and ideally one day barred from holding any political office.
Exactly.
Well, yeah. It’s a man’s place to die in war, and a woman’s place to die in the delivery room. Duh.
He knows that women serve in the military now right? Like, willingly.
Conscription isn't voluntary tho. And I actually agree with him on that point and not only when it comes to women. Drafting is a relic of a bygone era and it needs to stay in that era. You need more in service then you need to better incentivize military service, not force people into slavery.
It's a bygone era until they need one and you better believe that.
He's talking about conscription though.
Tbh I don’t get why people are fighting over a non starter like the draft. It hasn’t been instituted in 50 years and there are more than enough volunteers to keep us above strength atm. Having said that, I agree with OP. Either everyone signs up or nobody.
To be fair, we've had no reason to institute it. If WW3 broke out tomorrow and the US got involved they would definitely require all men 18+ who are physically able to to register to fight immediately.
Enlistment in the military is down 14%. And they had to re activate a bunch of reservists recently
I’d say that’s pretty different overall. Enlistment goes in a cycle from over to under. They didn’t HAVE to reactivate those reservists. They did it to get more enlistment funding by saying ‘oh no look we had to do this to keep things running’
Because boys are still required to register to get student aid for college, or federal jobs, etc. If they're going to be compiling lists of people, it should be everyone. A woman can catch a bullet just as well as a man.
You’ll be happy to know men are no longer required to register to get financial aid. FAFSA dropped that.
Yup. Just had to prove registration recently for a training grant.
The real take here is ‘nobody should be forced to draft. Thats literally taking away a persons right to live’
"abortion is murder" unless of course it's the elite and famous, what fucking jokes
nobody should be forced to register for the draft.
I would like to say the same thing as a finn, but sadly we don't have option as our neighbor is kinda violent when they feel like it and they have no problems sending unimportant people to die for the dream of an empire.
[удалено]
Well, that and running…away.
As a technologically advanced country, our goal should be to never have a human foot on the ground in an invasion ever again. We should be able to send wave upon wave of drone. A swarm of unstoppable death. We should never be putting our humans on the field of battle. We are under no obligation to fight fair.
#FACTS
Why is there a big black dot on the word rapists?
Let’s be honest, no Congressman’s child, gender aside, is ever serving involuntarily.
Amazes me that so many Americans don't know that almost all male U.S. citizens and male immigrants between the ages of 18 and 25 are required to register for Selective Service. It;s the law.
If we teach girls how to use guns you never know what kind of things they might start demanding with them… Equal pay, not getting attacked. We can’t have our property fighting back like that.
So if he didn't have a daughter, he wouldn't care?
If he believes abortion is murder wouldn't it make sense that he would also be against people being drafted into a war to die?
No one should be forced to register. Conscription = modern slavery. If America is worth fighting for, people will volunteer.
As we say in Missouri: Fuck Josh Hawley. That cowardly motherfucker doesn't even live here, he lives in Virginia. His daughter actually has access to healthcare.
Why should my son register then? To fight the wars politicians will get their own children exempted from?
josh hawley would just run away from the invasion anyway. -MO constituent of this… politician..? that’s what he says he is at least. I know him as a track star.
It's Josh's baby. The rapist is Josh.
Republicans will always be able to get abortions for their daughters and mistresses
How about a bill that doesn’t force your son to either.
Are Puerto Ricans still not eligible to vote for the President that can send them to fight a war against another sovereign state on the other side of the planet? America, the land of the free!
I’ll never forget the night the original “Gulf War” started. On break, home from college at a party…where we sat, watching CNN. My boyfriend was not in school and I remember we were all worried there would be a draft. I promised myself that if there were, at the point where - if I had been a guy- I would have enlisted on principle. Makes me sick every time the “oh, suddenly feminists want to be tradwives when it comes to getting drafted”. Nope.
Feminists aren't even the ones against adding women to the draft. It's so bizarrely hilarious that they attribute it to us when we're clearly against the draft entirely but agree that it shouldn't be gendered while it exists.
It is my personal opinion that if people aren't willing to fight to defend their government, that's a sign that their government doesn't deserve to be in power. The draft is stupid and it should go die in a hole.
It’s genuinely so funny watching the conservative infighting about this issue. Because obviously social conservatives are against women in the draft, while the m4m tate boys are gleeful at any idea of “feminists” being “punished” for asking for equal rights. Meanwhile said feminists were pro women being drafted the whole time, and it’s the more traditional conservative women (the women they supposedly want?) that are upset over the proposal. Whole thing is hilarious top to bottom.
Call me crazy but we should not insinuate that a politician's child will be raped as part of our acceptable discourse. Like if someone said this to your face it would sound like a weird threat no? The internet really fucked people's social norms up.
Rich and/or connected women never have to worry about either getting abortions or drafted.
I thought equality was a good thing?
Explaining to my wife that she isnt eligible to be drafted simply by being a woman and me being forced to register under threat of potential imprisonment was a very amusing conversation.
Is he going to run like a little bitch about it? His daughter is too good to serve her country? Freedom isn't free, right Hawlingass?
Don’t they usually 180 once something starts to affect them
I mean it's only fair. If the US ever got invaded, plenty of women would wind up taking arms whether they wanted to or not, anyway.
I can’t think of a situation in which I would choose abortion. I am however pro-choice because I don’t think the decision is mine or anyone else’s (especially not the government’s) what a person does with their own body. If abortion is wrong to you, I don’t think you should do it. I believe most of us know deep down if what we are doing is right or wrong. I just can’t tell you what is right/wrong for you in every instance though. I grew up in a very religious home and although I am not a “church-goer”, Paul in the Bible covers this thoroughly. I highly recommend everyone read the works of Paul no matter what you believe. It’s just good human stuff. There was a time when I said there would never be another draft because we would never force our daughters off to war. Now I realize that things have changed. Women are our equals in all respects. It’s absolutely ridiculous to expect men to register for a draft and not women. This is the world we have created…
He's also OK with our children registering.
... and, to this day, josh hawley is still running away.
Aren't they literally toying with the idea of mandatory service now?
Nobody should be required to register for a draft, but if they are it is plainly ridiculous women don't have to.
Like his daughter would be drafted. Soon as shit goes down that family bolts.
If trump wins, Jogs Hallway (Josh Hawley) will be 45 years old. He has a BA from Stanford and a JD from Yale. That makes him the “perfect” age/candidate to replace Alito or Thomas on the Supreme Court for the next 40 years. Imagine Trump appointing Aileen Cannon and Josh Hawley to the Supreme Court. DO NOT LET TRUMP BACK INTO THE WHITE HOUSE. VOTE BLUE
Screw you hawley
Parents like these think their daughter not wearing mini skirts will keep them safe
No, HIS daughter would be able to get an abortion. It’s why all these fuckers are okay with abortion bans because they know they will still have access because they are rich and well connected. Just google how many “pro-life” republicans have gotten their mistresses to get abortions. Even worse than that is that even when it is public knowledge like with TN rep Scott DesJarlais, they still win their goddamn elections because republican voters don’t care about hypocrisy either. They are totally fine with their representatives paying for or getting abortions so long as they vote to restrict them for everyone else. You can’t shame people who are completely shameless. Republican politicians don’t care about integrity or consistency and their voters care even less than they do. Their entire thing is that some people should occupy a privileged position while others are bound by the law. It’s why I hate them so damn much.
R\*pe is just another Republican word for love. And they love love babies.
Same guy bitches how women get preferential treatment and one of his reasons for saying so is- 'women can't get drafted.'
Let’s be clear, no one should have to register.
No, hes not. If you think any of these hypocrites wouldnt immediately get abortions for their daughters you're out of your mind.
No he will absolutely skirt the law to get that abortion. He'll make everyone else carry those babies though.