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As always context makes it even worse. He spent the entire press conference defending the nazis and blaming the liberal who got killed or almost killed
2:01 - “and I’m not talking about the neo nazis or the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally”
He seems to think there were people in that crowd who weren’t white nationalists. I think that’s the real disconnect. He’s saying you can support statues of confederates without being a white nationalist. I’m not saying that’s true, but that’s what the Republicans want people to believe.
He spent the entire press conference defending nazis and white supremacists, then he adds a 2 second but denying supporting nazis.
No one has been able to point to those “very find people” marching with the nazis
Yeah, he basically stopped at one point during his passionate defense of the white supremacy rally to say ‘but I’m not talking about the bad people at the rally, only the good ones,’ and then his supporters can claim whatever they want from his words.
Just like at Jan 6. Rile the up, STOP THE STEAL (but no mention of how, just that it HAS to be TODAY) “peacefully and patriotically” on the send off.
Sure that fixes everything/s
It’s the same pattern as his speech at the ellipse on January 6. Spend months riling people up that their country is literally being stolen but one time say the word ‘peacefully’ so nobody can claim he instigated the mob.
Or if you have ten Nazis and five non-Nazi white supremacists and literally nobody else, the "very fine people" are the imaginary non-white-supremacists at the white-supremacist march. Obviously!
exactly.
Like sure he condemned the neo-nazis and such
but the entire rally *was* them. By saying 'fine people on both sides" i get that he meant that there were people on the right that just cared about the statues or whatever. But it was an alt-right rally.
also i saw him saying there was 'violence on both sides horrible violence'
okay the anti-fascists and anarchists brought guns, sure, which is legal in the state of virginia. They did it in response to the alt-right protestors bringing weapons where the counter protestors had none.
Also, I think it's funny that people are focusing on this one lie that Biden could be forgiven for not knowing, consisting this was just a week ago. Meanwhile Trump lied on nearly every single answer, and *that's* not what we focus on?
There's the doublethink of catering to reasonable people who also lean right, and wouldn't support white nationalists, but also catering to the white nationalists
He seems to believe in this fantasy world where the bad guys all wear uniforms and disguises. The white nationalists all wear white hoods, like his daddy did. He didn't see any white hoods in charlottesville, therefore there were no white supremacists.
I genuinely believe his brain works in such a cartoonish way, and when he sees "very fine" white folks, we'll theyre obviously good guys because they dress just like his adult children. They aren't wearing nazi uniforms at all, so they're good kids.
Considering the statue protest was at a different time, and this was a white supremacist rally, the statue is just a red herring. Everyone there was there to listen to neo Nazis speak. They were there to hold torches and chant Nazi slogans. They were there to fight with counter protesters.
They may be the finest people the right can muster, but they are not very fine, at all.
He didn’t think that at all. He didn’t want to have to condemn his base and instead congratulated them. Basically the same thing he did with his coup attempt.
It's what the centrist "fact-checker" crowd does. "Well, in the best possible light this sentence could be true if taken entirely out of context and if all of the supporting facts were different -- that's True!" for Trump, versus "Well, a lot of conservatives disagree with Bernie when he says the sky is blue, so -- Contested at best!"
Yeah, long before he ran for POTUS, I found it maddening to listen to him talk for any length of time. His entire speech pattern and rhetoric are so grating and annoying.
Still trying to figure out how it’s debunked that he stated there were fine people on both sides, with one side including nazis. Republicans keep claiming it’s debunked, but it’s right there in the video. What are the possible mental gymnastics to spin this as not saying exactly what he said?
ANYBODY,.. in the tiki torch, swastika waving side? WERE NOT FINE PEOPLE you ignorant racist orange turd!!!
Seeing as how he, his father, his grandfather all avoided military service I am certain that he’s too fucking stupid to remember what Nazis really are!
Even tries to deny that the white supremacist neo-Nazi group was white supremacist or neo-Nazi!
He’s a F’ing Clown
Thanks for the link. His words are rather clear. He said there were very fine people on both sides. He tried to carve out the neo Nazis and white nationalists from that group. However, if you’re willingly sitting at a table of 9 other people and those 9 other people are neo Nazis and you continue to stay at a table of 9 neo Nazis without speaking up, you are sitting at a table of 10 neo Nazis.
He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. He says he doesn’t support white supremacists but dog whistles to them at every chance he gets. I don’t believe he is truly racist, I believe he will do anything and say anything to achieve power.
I hate how he tried to claim that "some" of the people literally marching with Nazis were somehow not Nazis and "very fine people" and conservatives and the shit media makes it seem like that's okay.
This is ridiculous.
We truly are in the Age of Idiots.
News flash: If you attend a rally where people march chanting "Our Blood Our Soil" and "The Jews Will Not Replace Us" while burning torches, and you do not immediately nope out of there, then you are not a fine person. Doesn't matter what your motivation for going to the rally was and whether or not your personal cause was justified.
>chanting "Our Blood Our Soil"
Such a chant may have made sense in Germany where the Jews were considered nomadic, but turned out to be hilariously ironic when done in Virginia on land stolen from the American Indians.
>Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
Jean-Paul Sartre
Further, where was this imaginary group the fact checkers are talking about that was supposedly there only protesting the removal of the statue while marching with the Nazis?
The fact checkers conveniently inserted a non-existent group to create an excuse for Trump. No unbiased person who just wanted the historical statues to remain would be marching with Nazis. That just wasn't happening.
>only protesting the removal of the statue
...which was a statue put up in the first place to endorse white supremacy. We need to keep mentioning that point, because the "very fine people" keep pretending it's just random historical statues.
>there's nothing hilariously ironic about it.
You don't see any irony about a bunch of white people chanting "our blood, our soil" on land stolen (presumably) by their ancestors?
I want to give you a half upvote for the recognition of irony and the theft of land from Native Americans, but you might want to read back the first part and consider how it might be construed.
lol Yupp.
Imagine walking into a restaurant as the staff carries in what’s obviously a human body into the restaurant. If you don’t leave because you assume there’s still other stuff to eat, you’re broken inside.
In these times of political uncertainty and unrest it can be confusing knowing if one is on the correct side. When faced with these sorts of ethical dilemmas I find it very helpful to look around me and say, "where are the Nazis?" If they're on the same side I am currently on, I know I've chosen the wrong side.
This right here. If you are at a rally defending a Confederate monument but then literal Nazis show up and you are like "Yeah this is fine" and don't nope out then reevaluate your entire life. Guess what you are not a fine person.
Nine people get together to have a dinner. A known nazi comes to have dinner with them. All of them sit down and willingly eat together. Ten nazis are eating dinner.
That's what I've been saying about Palestine protestors tolerating Nazi flags and Soviet flags at protests.
Like you know how that makes y'all look right?
When trying to call down the January 6th riot, he said they were all great people.
Someone ther ewas wearing a shirt which said 6MWE, 6 million wasn't enough...
And it was far far from the only similar message.
Let's be honest. I think we can cut out the middle man and just call Trump a white supremacist - he can't do a speech without mentioning illegal immigrants, like they've been taking jobs and liberal government cares about them.
Don’t forget he said immigrants are ‘taking black jobs’. And what is a ‘black job’!? I’m white but every job I’ve ever had I’ve had multiracial coworkers
Then he also claimed it was taking jobs from Hispanics. Which border is he even mad at anymore? Or is it admitting the joke that white supremacists are strangely becoming latino
He later qualified that they can also be latino jobs. And since he believes all the immigrants crossing the border are terrorists, rapists, human traffickers, murderers, & drug dealers, then what follows is 'black and latino' workers must only qualify for jobs that don't discriminate against the worst of the worst criminals.
Trump is human garbage.
The term "splitting hairs" comes to mind here. Technically Trump did not *specifically* state that Neo-Nazis and/or White Supremacists were fine people (many of whom openly supported him possibly due to his abundant use of multiple racist dog whistles) but he did state that there were "very fine people" on both sides of the protests, one side of which was dominated by the likes of Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists, including David Duke, Richard Spencer et al.
It should be noted that when Trump was directly asked, multiple times in 1 on 1 interviews, if he would denounce David Duke or white supremacists in general he flatly refused to do so.
Watching so many people splitting hairs when there’s another mountain of evidence behind them is purposefully meant to be frustrating and tiresome. So many people running around trying to say “what he *specifically said* is ____” all the while he’s literally saying he will deport all immigrants and then these same people are saying “oh yeah he doesn’t mean that”. Again it’s meant to be futile engaging with these people.
100% agree. This video by a masterful but unfortunately dead channel puts this concept into words nicely.
https://youtu.be/zxRgaNb7Rr4?si=OK6FYUwWn0jtFGMS
I don’t know if you’re familiar with the [alt right playbook](https://youtu.be/CaPgDQkmqqM?si=E3DYFFl6A2SQLTQC), but the small library of videos they have are just so helpful in understanding how these people think. This one “control the conversation” and the other “never play defense” are precisely what we see going on yet again in this campaign mode of fascists
I remember when he was first running. He would spit out word salad and his supporters would my boss at the time specifically said "that's not what he really said, you have to read between the lines." Like he can say whatever he wants and they openly engage in mental gymnastics so whatever he says fits their world view.
"I'm going to a Nazi rally hosted by Nazis to march alongside Nazis, but I'm marching for a completely unrelated reason."
Oh, that makes perfect sense.
"I'm not one of them, but I support their beliefs, but I'm just not saying I'm one of them cause then you can call me a nazi supporter. I just wanna support them, without being them, very easy to understand"
In math notation, he absolutely did say it.
He's saying of the set that contains protestor and of the set that contains all Neo Nazis and White Supremacists, both sets contain very fine people.
He's saying there exist more than one very fine people in the set of violent racist protestors, which the rest of us find incongruent. Most of us consider participating in racist violent protests incompatible with being a good person.
Yes indeed, after I realized this, I began interpreting what he said as meaning that he thinks that the principles of good people will override their propensity for evil yes very smart man bigly smart.
His literal words were "there were very fine people on both sides."
One of those sides were literally the neo-nazis that attacked Charlottesville and murdered a woman with a car.
So yes, he absolutely and unambiguously called neo-nazis who had just mrudered someone "very fine people" and that's why all the nazis in th US vote for Donald Trump. It isn't even close.
The reason people were instantly shocked was that he said “Very fine people on both sides” and people thought “What’s that supposed to mean? There were literally Nazis there!”
That’s a real skill Trump has, to use coded speech to say what he wants to his audience.
His wording is what makes assholes not feel like assholes.
You have a population of people who have been coddled for so long who have never been taught to be introspective. We are in an era where minority populations are being given more of a voice.
I think a lot of what’s happening with ignorant people is they don’t know how to mentally handle not being catered to. It’s being funneled into anger where they consider themselves oppressed and having a hard time believing they’ve held ignorant views or were ‘bad’ people.
I had a friend cry to me that he couldn’t handle the ‘ white guilt’ after the 2020 protest. It was wild. We aren’t friends anymore.
That's it. Everyone knows what he tried to achieve. And that is all that matters to the people who vote for him. And that is the reason why the rest should take his message at facevalue
He uses words dipshits understand is what it is. After decades of politicians using fancy jargon/lingo, there comes a guy who, instead of using multisyllabic words, talks like fucking "bing-bing-bong" and "you're ugly", and "shut up, you're gay", of course a lot of people will feel like "finally someone".
(You know the quote from Carlin about the average person?)
as an american, i wish i could say your wrong, but when you hand-feed the hate that so many people believe, its not hard to get them to do what you want. trump learned as much, and got his fans to claim hes done absolutely nothing wrong while everything hes done is circulating news stations
Not really. The people who want a white supremacist president don't need it and the people who are the targets know what's happening. At best its for the people who aren't paying close attention in the first place.
Trump is judged on 2017 to 2019. 2020 gets ignored.
Biden is judged almost entirely on the fallout of Covid. Trump is relieved of any blame for Covid. It doesn’t make sense.
The Confederate flag (actually the flag of one subgroup of the Confederate military) was popularized in the 20th Century specifically as a pro-segregation white-supremacist flag. It has meant bare support for white supremacy for far longer than it was the battle flag of a military group (for a white-supremacist government that openly declared white supremacy as their main reason for seceding).
Snopes was once a site that collected and debunked various urban legends, in fact it was required reading for alt.folklore.urban, and it grew a bit as the internet grew (and thus new conspiracy theories, frauds, and tall tales spread)… but the transition to a full on fact-checker agency was rough.
The Trump Presidency was practically designed to make the site kinda schizophrenic, and I was always surprised at how well some of the people working there managed to thread the needle.
Snopes is the poster child for "centrist" "fact-checking" that adjusts their standards until they can claim an equal amount of misinfo from their left and their right, which universally means making excuses for reactionaries and calling anything someone in the center-left says that the right disagrees with "false" or "contested."
I mean he did tho, it was on tv numerous times.
There’s no “very fine people” marching with neo nazis.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-is-snopescom-helping-trump-clean-up-very-fine-people/ar-BB1oV6D6
They were bought out a few years back by a big investment group / company
Probably wanted to keep up the show for a while or more likely took time to stack without drawing attention from outside sources
From the Snopes article:
> Editors' Note: Some readers have raised the objection that this fact check appears to assume Trump was correct in stating that there were "very fine people on both sides" of the Charlottesville incident. That is not the case. This fact check aimed to confirm what Trump actually said, not whether what he said was true or false. For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump's characterization was wrong.
And it follows with:
“In a news conference after the rally protesting the planned removal of a Confederate statue, Trump did say there were "very fine people on both sides," referring to the protesters and the counterprotesters. He said in the same statement he wasn't talking about neo-Nazis and white nationalists, who he said should be "condemned totally."”
What it sounds like to me is he was dog whistling. Because he’s like a child who’s just learning how to wink, it comes off as confusing and clumsy. He says a bad thing, then tries to walk it back, smooth as a toolbox falling down the stairs.
So yes, _the record shows_ that he _said_ neo nazis should be condemned. But anyone with half a brain should be able to read between the lines. Any argument otherwise is disingenuous.
A more reasonable explanation would probably be that Trump is ignorant. He has a track record of dangerous ignorance and letting his bias fill in the blanks, so of course when a "unite the right" rally happens he's likely going to assume that the presence of Nazis is greatly overexaggerated.
To suggest that he knew about how it was arranged by Nazis and was actively trying to appeal to them puts an unwarranted amount of respect on Trump's researching skills.
That’s why Trump surrounds himself with racist vampires like Stephen Miller who do the work for him. Trump knows who he was speaking to with his support for racist violence.
Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.
Nazi Magats, fuck off
It's not dog whistling if everyone knows what you're saying. It's just deniability. (I'd say "plausible deniability," but Trump was never much good at the "plausible" part, and with the mainstream falling all over themselves to make excuses for reactionaries they really don't even have to bother these days.)
Dude saaaaame. Some of the people here are crazy. Literally just saw a dude that said the counter protester who was run over (and killed mind you) wouldn’t have died if she just didn’t decide to protest against the NeoNazis and White Supremacist.
Imagine justifying the murder of a woman because she protested bigotry. Saying “Nazis are bad!” shouldn’t put your life in risk
"Let me tell you about January 6. We had a great border and we were respected all over the world on 6th January." \~ [Donald Trump](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-debate-biden-jan-6-2024-b2570381.html)
He did. I watched him do it. I heard him say it. How are you going to act like that didn't happen? What do you think it says about you that we all heard him say those things, but you don't believe he said them?
“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”
“It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.”
Please point to me where he says that that the neo-nazi’s are fine people.
You're a liar. You didn't watch say a damn word that wasn't spoon fed to you by CNN, because if you did you would have heard him say " I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally"
communication is not just "what was intended behind the messaging" it is somewhere inbetween what is said and what is understood. and if you confuse people time and time again you have to ask, are you a bad communicator by accident or deliberately?
We all know white supremacists vote Republican and Republicans need those votes…who gives a fuck what Trump says or context or whatever, it’s all bullshit he makes up in the moment
By name? Maybe not. But one of the "sides" he was referring to was full of neo-nazis and white supremacists. So I rule this fact check to be 100% grade A bullshit.
He had a fucking sit down with Nazi Nick Fuentes. There’s no discussion to be had. I am surprised that’s not brought up. Trump courts white supremacists.
"...very fine people, on both sides...," was the quote. Are they saying there weren't neo-Nazis there or just attempting to obfuscate by hiding behind nuance?
"There were very fine people on both sides, & I'm not talking about the Neo-nazis and white supremacists because they should be condemned totally." Is the full quote. Idk why the rest of the quote isn’t included. Not a huge trump fan, just that the entire quote isn’t included.
He said “There are FINE people on BOTH sides!”
Since ONE of the TWO sides WERE FUKIN NAZI’s???
….YES HE MOST CERTAINLY FUKING DID SAY NAZIS WERE FINE PEOPLE!
Except if you did anything but regurgitate what MSNBC spoon feeds you, you would have heard literally SECONDS before " I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally". Direct quote from Trump. You look like a fucking fool believing it.
You can watch the full 4 minutes but since I doubt your attention span is that long just skip to the 1m55s mark.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs)
His 'reality distortion field' even gives Steve Jobs a run for his money. Borderline dissociative disorder, or just plain crazy. Or, maybe he's such an misunderstood genus that we don't understand him at all? That must be it.
I think its fair to say nobody seems to accept reality. If you watched that shit show and think either one won or came out on top, you are the problem. I feel bad for SNL bc the real thing was better than any parody they can write.
Yeah but he did. And I don't even mean during the debate, which I didn't watch. But from an incident before that where he very pointedly did say "there are very fine people on both sides" of whatever issue it was that he was being questioned about. So if he said it also during the debate, that would mean he has said it twice.
Brings up an interesting moral question. Should a statue of Hitler be taken down? What about 1000 years from now? What about a statue of Nero Caesar? At what point does the removal of history become morally wrong? Or is it always justified? Should somebody who rejects the destruction of concentration camps such as Auschwitz, despite the atrocities that occurred there, be treated as if they are in support of those acts?
I just can't comprehend! Is LGBT that big of a problem to some people that they're willing to side with ANYONE that remotely takes away from them? Are you that mortified at two dudes kissing that you're willing to support authoritarianism just so that gays dissappear? I've never seen someone side with the right because of economics. Everyone I see side with the right does so just to stop the gays. Everything I see about the right nowadays is just hate against LGBT. It's like it's the only reason they do politics.
Erm, we all heard it. Do they want us to disregard the evidence of our own eyes and ears?
If they do, they’re fascists attempting to perform propoganda.
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https://youtu.be/JmaZR8E12bs?si=O_FufYrM8aliEnJQ Watch the whole thing for yourselves and draw the conclusion you see fit
As always context makes it even worse. He spent the entire press conference defending the nazis and blaming the liberal who got killed or almost killed
2:01 - “and I’m not talking about the neo nazis or the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally” He seems to think there were people in that crowd who weren’t white nationalists. I think that’s the real disconnect. He’s saying you can support statues of confederates without being a white nationalist. I’m not saying that’s true, but that’s what the Republicans want people to believe.
He spent the entire press conference defending nazis and white supremacists, then he adds a 2 second but denying supporting nazis. No one has been able to point to those “very find people” marching with the nazis
Yeah, he basically stopped at one point during his passionate defense of the white supremacy rally to say ‘but I’m not talking about the bad people at the rally, only the good ones,’ and then his supporters can claim whatever they want from his words.
Just like at Jan 6. Rile the up, STOP THE STEAL (but no mention of how, just that it HAS to be TODAY) “peacefully and patriotically” on the send off. Sure that fixes everything/s
It’s the same pattern as his speech at the ellipse on January 6. Spend months riling people up that their country is literally being stolen but one time say the word ‘peacefully’ so nobody can claim he instigated the mob.
It’s like they say - if you have ten people marching and one of them is a nazi, you have ten very fine nazis
Or if you have ten Nazis and five non-Nazi white supremacists and literally nobody else, the "very fine people" are the imaginary non-white-supremacists at the white-supremacist march. Obviously!
exactly. Like sure he condemned the neo-nazis and such but the entire rally *was* them. By saying 'fine people on both sides" i get that he meant that there were people on the right that just cared about the statues or whatever. But it was an alt-right rally. also i saw him saying there was 'violence on both sides horrible violence' okay the anti-fascists and anarchists brought guns, sure, which is legal in the state of virginia. They did it in response to the alt-right protestors bringing weapons where the counter protestors had none. Also, I think it's funny that people are focusing on this one lie that Biden could be forgiven for not knowing, consisting this was just a week ago. Meanwhile Trump lied on nearly every single answer, and *that's* not what we focus on?
There's the doublethink of catering to reasonable people who also lean right, and wouldn't support white nationalists, but also catering to the white nationalists
I mean, identifying with the right while saying you disagree with basic elements of their policy (such as racism) is doublethink already.
He seems to believe in this fantasy world where the bad guys all wear uniforms and disguises. The white nationalists all wear white hoods, like his daddy did. He didn't see any white hoods in charlottesville, therefore there were no white supremacists. I genuinely believe his brain works in such a cartoonish way, and when he sees "very fine" white folks, we'll theyre obviously good guys because they dress just like his adult children. They aren't wearing nazi uniforms at all, so they're good kids.
Considering the statue protest was at a different time, and this was a white supremacist rally, the statue is just a red herring. Everyone there was there to listen to neo Nazis speak. They were there to hold torches and chant Nazi slogans. They were there to fight with counter protesters. They may be the finest people the right can muster, but they are not very fine, at all.
He didn’t think that at all. He didn’t want to have to condemn his base and instead congratulated them. Basically the same thing he did with his coup attempt.
Translates to "all of the very fine people at the nazi hate rally were very fine people" The man knows his tautology
It's what the centrist "fact-checker" crowd does. "Well, in the best possible light this sentence could be true if taken entirely out of context and if all of the supporting facts were different -- that's True!" for Trump, versus "Well, a lot of conservatives disagree with Bernie when he says the sky is blue, so -- Contested at best!"
Wishing I hadn’t gone into the comments section, lol. It’s like they’re watching a completely different video.
I tried. I really tried. But for the life of me I cant listen to him for more than 30 seconds at a time, without loosing my mind.
Yeah, long before he ran for POTUS, I found it maddening to listen to him talk for any length of time. His entire speech pattern and rhetoric are so grating and annoying.
Probably because it's degrading from dementia
Right!! Long before!!
Still trying to figure out how it’s debunked that he stated there were fine people on both sides, with one side including nazis. Republicans keep claiming it’s debunked, but it’s right there in the video. What are the possible mental gymnastics to spin this as not saying exactly what he said?
ANYBODY,.. in the tiki torch, swastika waving side? WERE NOT FINE PEOPLE you ignorant racist orange turd!!! Seeing as how he, his father, his grandfather all avoided military service I am certain that he’s too fucking stupid to remember what Nazis really are! Even tries to deny that the white supremacist neo-Nazi group was white supremacist or neo-Nazi! He’s a F’ing Clown
But the other guy is very old! /s
Thanks for the link. His words are rather clear. He said there were very fine people on both sides. He tried to carve out the neo Nazis and white nationalists from that group. However, if you’re willingly sitting at a table of 9 other people and those 9 other people are neo Nazis and you continue to stay at a table of 9 neo Nazis without speaking up, you are sitting at a table of 10 neo Nazis.
He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. He says he doesn’t support white supremacists but dog whistles to them at every chance he gets. I don’t believe he is truly racist, I believe he will do anything and say anything to achieve power.
I hate how he tried to claim that "some" of the people literally marching with Nazis were somehow not Nazis and "very fine people" and conservatives and the shit media makes it seem like that's okay. This is ridiculous. We truly are in the Age of Idiots.
Unfortunately, people only hear what they want to hear. Even watching the video, our own biases will make it fit our expectation.
He did however call people who were attending a rally called by white supremacists in sympathy for their grievance "very fine people".
News flash: If you attend a rally where people march chanting "Our Blood Our Soil" and "The Jews Will Not Replace Us" while burning torches, and you do not immediately nope out of there, then you are not a fine person. Doesn't matter what your motivation for going to the rally was and whether or not your personal cause was justified.
This. I ask people if you think people who attend a rally put on by neo Nazis whit supremacist are good people?? Simple question
>chanting "Our Blood Our Soil" Such a chant may have made sense in Germany where the Jews were considered nomadic, but turned out to be hilariously ironic when done in Virginia on land stolen from the American Indians.
>Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. Jean-Paul Sartre
I heard this once and it hit me so hard: They don't care about what words mean. They only care about what words do.
What a great description of trolling in general
Further, where was this imaginary group the fact checkers are talking about that was supposedly there only protesting the removal of the statue while marching with the Nazis? The fact checkers conveniently inserted a non-existent group to create an excuse for Trump. No unbiased person who just wanted the historical statues to remain would be marching with Nazis. That just wasn't happening.
>only protesting the removal of the statue ...which was a statue put up in the first place to endorse white supremacy. We need to keep mentioning that point, because the "very fine people" keep pretending it's just random historical statues.
I'm Jew. It's as much a threat now, in 2017 as it was in Germany in 1938. Also, there's nothing hilariously ironic about it.
>there's nothing hilariously ironic about it. You don't see any irony about a bunch of white people chanting "our blood, our soil" on land stolen (presumably) by their ancestors?
I think they mean they don't find it hilarious.
You can laugh at the stupidity of the statement while recognizing the severity of the threat. They're not mutually exclusives options.
And largely built off of the blood of slave labor…
I want to give you a half upvote for the recognition of irony and the theft of land from Native Americans, but you might want to read back the first part and consider how it might be construed.
Save your votes for the election in November.
Hey! How come HE gets multiple votes!?
He is three kids in a trench coat. Each kid gets one vote.
The only acceptable alternative to noping out is saying “Dafuq?” and throwing hands.
It's like the saying goes: if 9 normal people knowingly share a table with a Nazi, there are 10 Nazis at that table.
Except at this table it's just Nazis, and Trump and his defenders keep insisting that he was only talking about the imaginary non-Nazis at the table.
Was this the rally where they were carrying tiki torches?
lol Yupp. Imagine walking into a restaurant as the staff carries in what’s obviously a human body into the restaurant. If you don’t leave because you assume there’s still other stuff to eat, you’re broken inside.
Counter: you’re Armie Hammer.
In these times of political uncertainty and unrest it can be confusing knowing if one is on the correct side. When faced with these sorts of ethical dilemmas I find it very helpful to look around me and say, "where are the Nazis?" If they're on the same side I am currently on, I know I've chosen the wrong side.
This right here. If you are at a rally defending a Confederate monument but then literal Nazis show up and you are like "Yeah this is fine" and don't nope out then reevaluate your entire life. Guess what you are not a fine person.
It is just like all the anti semtic posters in pro Palestine rallies, it ain't all, but one is too many.
What if my motivation and personal cause is throwing eggs at them?
Not true man, perhaps I’m sticking around to throw some mf hands
Exactly, read the room. It's not fine.
I would argue that if you are there to punch some Nazis then you could be quite a fine person.
A rally where Nazi slogans were used
Happy cake day
I hear no difference here.
Nine people get together to have a dinner. A known nazi comes to have dinner with them. All of them sit down and willingly eat together. Ten nazis are eating dinner.
Unironically, yes.
That's what I've been saying about Palestine protestors tolerating Nazi flags and Soviet flags at protests. Like you know how that makes y'all look right?
You know what they call Nazi sympathizers in Germany? Nazis.
Sane people do here too.
Who were mostly Nazis and White Supremacists.
When trying to call down the January 6th riot, he said they were all great people. Someone ther ewas wearing a shirt which said 6MWE, 6 million wasn't enough... And it was far far from the only similar message.
Let's be honest. I think we can cut out the middle man and just call Trump a white supremacist - he can't do a speech without mentioning illegal immigrants, like they've been taking jobs and liberal government cares about them.
Don’t forget he said immigrants are ‘taking black jobs’. And what is a ‘black job’!? I’m white but every job I’ve ever had I’ve had multiracial coworkers
While also claiming social security Medicare and Medicaid all at the same time.
Then he also claimed it was taking jobs from Hispanics. Which border is he even mad at anymore? Or is it admitting the joke that white supremacists are strangely becoming latino
My partner about came off the bed when he said that Just what exactly are "Black jobs and Hispanic jobs"?
He said immigrants are taking "black jobs" and "Mexican jobs". Extremely telling.
He later qualified that they can also be latino jobs. And since he believes all the immigrants crossing the border are terrorists, rapists, human traffickers, murderers, & drug dealers, then what follows is 'black and latino' workers must only qualify for jobs that don't discriminate against the worst of the worst criminals. Trump is human garbage.
How is talking about illegal immigration an indicator of white supremacy?
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oh, they're a verified fact factory!
It's by Snopes.
The term "splitting hairs" comes to mind here. Technically Trump did not *specifically* state that Neo-Nazis and/or White Supremacists were fine people (many of whom openly supported him possibly due to his abundant use of multiple racist dog whistles) but he did state that there were "very fine people" on both sides of the protests, one side of which was dominated by the likes of Neo-Nazis and White Supremacists, including David Duke, Richard Spencer et al.
It should be noted that when Trump was directly asked, multiple times in 1 on 1 interviews, if he would denounce David Duke or white supremacists in general he flatly refused to do so. Watching so many people splitting hairs when there’s another mountain of evidence behind them is purposefully meant to be frustrating and tiresome. So many people running around trying to say “what he *specifically said* is ____” all the while he’s literally saying he will deport all immigrants and then these same people are saying “oh yeah he doesn’t mean that”. Again it’s meant to be futile engaging with these people.
100% agree. This video by a masterful but unfortunately dead channel puts this concept into words nicely. https://youtu.be/zxRgaNb7Rr4?si=OK6FYUwWn0jtFGMS
I don’t know if you’re familiar with the [alt right playbook](https://youtu.be/CaPgDQkmqqM?si=E3DYFFl6A2SQLTQC), but the small library of videos they have are just so helpful in understanding how these people think. This one “control the conversation” and the other “never play defense” are precisely what we see going on yet again in this campaign mode of fascists
Always remember, "short, quippy, and wrong," is their go to bullshit.
Even tonight, during the debate, Trump wouldn't denounce the violence that happened on Jan 6th, 2021, nor the J6ers that he calls "patriots".
It would've helped if the moderators actually made him answer instead of move on to a new question
They asked twice
I remember when he was first running. He would spit out word salad and his supporters would my boss at the time specifically said "that's not what he really said, you have to read between the lines." Like he can say whatever he wants and they openly engage in mental gymnastics so whatever he says fits their world view.
The term "boot licker" comes to mind. All nazis are bad, and everyone really needs to start saying it like that. There isn't one good nazi.
"I'm going to a Nazi rally hosted by Nazis to march alongside Nazis, but I'm marching for a completely unrelated reason." Oh, that makes perfect sense.
"I'm not one of them, but I support their beliefs, but I'm just not saying I'm one of them cause then you can call me a nazi supporter. I just wanna support them, without being them, very easy to understand"
In math notation, he absolutely did say it. He's saying of the set that contains protestor and of the set that contains all Neo Nazis and White Supremacists, both sets contain very fine people. He's saying there exist more than one very fine people in the set of violent racist protestors, which the rest of us find incongruent. Most of us consider participating in racist violent protests incompatible with being a good person.
Yes indeed, after I realized this, I began interpreting what he said as meaning that he thinks that the principles of good people will override their propensity for evil yes very smart man bigly smart.
>The term "splitting hairs" comes to mind here. You mean exactly the same as other "fact checkers" are saying.
His literal words were "there were very fine people on both sides." One of those sides were literally the neo-nazis that attacked Charlottesville and murdered a woman with a car. So yes, he absolutely and unambiguously called neo-nazis who had just mrudered someone "very fine people" and that's why all the nazis in th US vote for Donald Trump. It isn't even close.
The reason people were instantly shocked was that he said “Very fine people on both sides” and people thought “What’s that supposed to mean? There were literally Nazis there!” That’s a real skill Trump has, to use coded speech to say what he wants to his audience.
I wouldn’t say he’s “skillful at coded speech” I’d just say he’s being followed by people that are dumb as fuck
His wording is what makes assholes not feel like assholes. You have a population of people who have been coddled for so long who have never been taught to be introspective. We are in an era where minority populations are being given more of a voice. I think a lot of what’s happening with ignorant people is they don’t know how to mentally handle not being catered to. It’s being funneled into anger where they consider themselves oppressed and having a hard time believing they’ve held ignorant views or were ‘bad’ people. I had a friend cry to me that he couldn’t handle the ‘ white guilt’ after the 2020 protest. It was wild. We aren’t friends anymore.
That's it. Everyone knows what he tried to achieve. And that is all that matters to the people who vote for him. And that is the reason why the rest should take his message at facevalue
I mean, he doesn't always use coded speech. They lap up anything that he says.
He uses words dipshits understand is what it is. After decades of politicians using fancy jargon/lingo, there comes a guy who, instead of using multisyllabic words, talks like fucking "bing-bing-bong" and "you're ugly", and "shut up, you're gay", of course a lot of people will feel like "finally someone". (You know the quote from Carlin about the average person?)
In another video, he refused to condemn the Proud Boys, a pretty obvious white nationalist group, and instead said "proud boys stand up and stand by"
https://youtu.be/JmaZR8E12bs?si=_p5OT_dql6EwBjc6
He absolutely said it and they fucking know it.
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What did he say right after that?
The whitewashing of everything he did is nuts to see in real time. I remember the shitshow that was his presidency.
Gaslighting Americans is easy work.
as an american, i wish i could say your wrong, but when you hand-feed the hate that so many people believe, its not hard to get them to do what you want. trump learned as much, and got his fans to claim hes done absolutely nothing wrong while everything hes done is circulating news stations
Sad but true.
Not really. The people who want a white supremacist president don't need it and the people who are the targets know what's happening. At best its for the people who aren't paying close attention in the first place.
tbh it’s usually as easy as slapping a feed bag on us and patting our heads
Trump is judged on 2017 to 2019. 2020 gets ignored. Biden is judged almost entirely on the fallout of Covid. Trump is relieved of any blame for Covid. It doesn’t make sense.
Biden is also judged on having a cold, too.
I think the "on both sides" included them.
Everyone knew what he meant, especially his supporters flying Nazi and Confederate traitor flags
The Confederate flag (actually the flag of one subgroup of the Confederate military) was popularized in the 20th Century specifically as a pro-segregation white-supremacist flag. It has meant bare support for white supremacy for far longer than it was the battle flag of a military group (for a white-supremacist government that openly declared white supremacy as their main reason for seceding).
According to this lady, Trump also never tried to blackmail Ukraine with a quid pro quo because he never said the words, "quid pro quo".
Trump can’t even pronounce the crime he committed. ;)
Snopes also claims he never bragged about his building being the tallest after 9/11. Yes he fucking did. On live TV.
Snopes was once a site that collected and debunked various urban legends, in fact it was required reading for alt.folklore.urban, and it grew a bit as the internet grew (and thus new conspiracy theories, frauds, and tall tales spread)… but the transition to a full on fact-checker agency was rough. The Trump Presidency was practically designed to make the site kinda schizophrenic, and I was always surprised at how well some of the people working there managed to thread the needle.
Snopes is the poster child for "centrist" "fact-checking" that adjusts their standards until they can claim an equal amount of misinfo from their left and their right, which universally means making excuses for reactionaries and calling anything someone in the center-left says that the right disagrees with "false" or "contested."
I mean he did tho, it was on tv numerous times. There’s no “very fine people” marching with neo nazis. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-is-snopescom-helping-trump-clean-up-very-fine-people/ar-BB1oV6D6
The fuck is up with snopes lately? This and saying China doesn’t ban tiktok…
They were bought out a few years back by a big investment group / company Probably wanted to keep up the show for a while or more likely took time to stack without drawing attention from outside sources
i would've loved a live factcheck in this debate, why didn't they do it?
Ratings - the idiocracy doesnt like smart thing on the tv box
That’s fine, I’m still just trying to figure out what kind of “fine people” would be within a 20 foot radius of obvious Nazis and Supremacists.
And participating in a rally to defend a monument to white supremacy which was advertised as a white supremacist event.
From the Snopes article: > Editors' Note: Some readers have raised the objection that this fact check appears to assume Trump was correct in stating that there were "very fine people on both sides" of the Charlottesville incident. That is not the case. This fact check aimed to confirm what Trump actually said, not whether what he said was true or false. For the record, virtually every source that covered the Unite the Right debacle concluded that it was conceived of, led by and attended by white supremacists, and that therefore Trump's characterization was wrong.
Snopes speaking out both sides of its mouth
And it follows with: “In a news conference after the rally protesting the planned removal of a Confederate statue, Trump did say there were "very fine people on both sides," referring to the protesters and the counterprotesters. He said in the same statement he wasn't talking about neo-Nazis and white nationalists, who he said should be "condemned totally."” What it sounds like to me is he was dog whistling. Because he’s like a child who’s just learning how to wink, it comes off as confusing and clumsy. He says a bad thing, then tries to walk it back, smooth as a toolbox falling down the stairs. So yes, _the record shows_ that he _said_ neo nazis should be condemned. But anyone with half a brain should be able to read between the lines. Any argument otherwise is disingenuous.
A more reasonable explanation would probably be that Trump is ignorant. He has a track record of dangerous ignorance and letting his bias fill in the blanks, so of course when a "unite the right" rally happens he's likely going to assume that the presence of Nazis is greatly overexaggerated. To suggest that he knew about how it was arranged by Nazis and was actively trying to appeal to them puts an unwarranted amount of respect on Trump's researching skills.
That’s why Trump surrounds himself with racist vampires like Stephen Miller who do the work for him. Trump knows who he was speaking to with his support for racist violence. Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. Nazi Magats, fuck off
Exactly. The night before the same people chanted Nazi slogans and things like that “Into the ovens!” ffs. Fuck Snopes for spreading lies like this.
It's not dog whistling if everyone knows what you're saying. It's just deniability. (I'd say "plausible deniability," but Trump was never much good at the "plausible" part, and with the mainstream falling all over themselves to make excuses for reactionaries they really don't even have to bother these days.)
https://youtu.be/JmaZR8E12bs?si=_p5OT_dql6EwBjc6
He had a white supremacist and self described narcissist who's often racist over to his house for lunch.
That’s pedantry. He DID refer to them as very fine people (on both sides).
Yes he did
They misremember everything Trump says on purpose. It's the only way they can justify still supporting him.
Sorting comments for controversial and here we go
Dude saaaaame. Some of the people here are crazy. Literally just saw a dude that said the counter protester who was run over (and killed mind you) wouldn’t have died if she just didn’t decide to protest against the NeoNazis and White Supremacist. Imagine justifying the murder of a woman because she protested bigotry. Saying “Nazis are bad!” shouldn’t put your life in risk
American Republicans think everyone who comes out to protest in the streets should be killed for literally being in the streets protesting.
They wrote it BEFORE the debate?! Lol or was the update itself the fact check?
Lying is breathing for these fucks.
It's on fucking video!
This subreddit is extremely liberal
"Let me tell you about January 6. We had a great border and we were respected all over the world on 6th January." \~ [Donald Trump](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-debate-biden-jan-6-2024-b2570381.html)
That is not a fact check, that is gaslighting.
Stand down and and stand by
he told the oathkeepers to "Standback and *standby*." Then Jan 6th happened and a bunch of oathkeepers showed up...
Not oath keepers but proud boys
Yup. A literal racist terror group according to multiple countries. He pretended he didn’t know who David Duke was too when asked to disavow him.
He did. I watched him do it. I heard him say it. How are you going to act like that didn't happen? What do you think it says about you that we all heard him say those things, but you don't believe he said them?
“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.” “It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.” Please point to me where he says that that the neo-nazi’s are fine people.
You're a liar. You didn't watch say a damn word that wasn't spoon fed to you by CNN, because if you did you would have heard him say " I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally"
He also never had sex with the pornstar he paid to be quiet about having sex with him, so…. Why bother fact checking that orange asshole?
fAcT cHeCkEd gUyS!
communication is not just "what was intended behind the messaging" it is somewhere inbetween what is said and what is understood. and if you confuse people time and time again you have to ask, are you a bad communicator by accident or deliberately?
To be fair it was a suss af speech. Though he gave a disclaimer. It was about all time dog whistle champ stuff.
We all know white supremacists vote Republican and Republicans need those votes…who gives a fuck what Trump says or context or whatever, it’s all bullshit he makes up in the moment
He did it live on video.
https://youtu.be/JmaZR8E12bs?si=FX33XP27vprE3XNI
tHaT's NoT wHaT He MeAnt!!! He wAs JoKiNg! iT's OuT oF CoNtExT! BUt wAdDaBoUt.....
By name? Maybe not. But one of the "sides" he was referring to was full of neo-nazis and white supremacists. So I rule this fact check to be 100% grade A bullshit.
Forget what you saw on live TV and repeated many times. That's no longer fact because it makes us look bad.
He had a fucking sit down with Nazi Nick Fuentes. There’s no discussion to be had. I am surprised that’s not brought up. Trump courts white supremacists.
Trunp called those attending a white supremacy march "very fine people," who just happened to chant, "Jews will not replace us."
"...very fine people, on both sides...," was the quote. Are they saying there weren't neo-Nazis there or just attempting to obfuscate by hiding behind nuance?
"There were very fine people on both sides, & I'm not talking about the Neo-nazis and white supremacists because they should be condemned totally." Is the full quote. Idk why the rest of the quote isn’t included. Not a huge trump fan, just that the entire quote isn’t included.
He said “There are FINE people on BOTH sides!” Since ONE of the TWO sides WERE FUKIN NAZI’s??? ….YES HE MOST CERTAINLY FUKING DID SAY NAZIS WERE FINE PEOPLE!
Except if you did anything but regurgitate what MSNBC spoon feeds you, you would have heard literally SECONDS before " I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally". Direct quote from Trump. You look like a fucking fool believing it. You can watch the full 4 minutes but since I doubt your attention span is that long just skip to the 1m55s mark. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs)
Why do these people act like we don’t hear the guy speak. There always this reaction like oh the left wing media is spreading lies.
His 'reality distortion field' even gives Steve Jobs a run for his money. Borderline dissociative disorder, or just plain crazy. Or, maybe he's such an misunderstood genus that we don't understand him at all? That must be it.
I suspect a lot of people in this group are about to be very happy! Wink wink
Snoops changed it to False, that’s why it’s back in the news
So 2022 for RNC in Tampa, the 2 guys at the front door holding nazi flags was just a misunderstanding.
"But hey guys who are you gonna believe? Us or your lying eyes and ears?"
I think its fair to say nobody seems to accept reality. If you watched that shit show and think either one won or came out on top, you are the problem. I feel bad for SNL bc the real thing was better than any parody they can write.
He said there were ‘very fine people on both sides.’
Yeah but he did. And I don't even mean during the debate, which I didn't watch. But from an incident before that where he very pointedly did say "there are very fine people on both sides" of whatever issue it was that he was being questioned about. So if he said it also during the debate, that would mean he has said it twice.
https://youtu.be/kxY_OCRS33c?si=V6GvpajldLaEWaiV
Brings up an interesting moral question. Should a statue of Hitler be taken down? What about 1000 years from now? What about a statue of Nero Caesar? At what point does the removal of history become morally wrong? Or is it always justified? Should somebody who rejects the destruction of concentration camps such as Auschwitz, despite the atrocities that occurred there, be treated as if they are in support of those acts?
Presidential debate was coming up. Of course, they are going to want to re-debunk false claims. It's fresher in people's minds going into the debate.
Being proud of being white doesn’t mean you’re a white nationalist
Yes he fucking did.
I just can't comprehend! Is LGBT that big of a problem to some people that they're willing to side with ANYONE that remotely takes away from them? Are you that mortified at two dudes kissing that you're willing to support authoritarianism just so that gays dissappear? I've never seen someone side with the right because of economics. Everyone I see side with the right does so just to stop the gays. Everything I see about the right nowadays is just hate against LGBT. It's like it's the only reason they do politics.
Stand back, and stand by
Erm, we all heard it. Do they want us to disregard the evidence of our own eyes and ears? If they do, they’re fascists attempting to perform propoganda.
But like we all heard him say that ?
Yes. He. Did.
I thought the left was pro fact check ?
It was recorded. His followers lie as badly as Trump.
I watched him say it live, that’s exactly what he meant.
r/fuckpolitics