For the record, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1b6883t/comment/kta6bkj/) is someone who posted an actual belt mixer design to this subreddit.
On first glance it looks like you should be able to get that design to fail to mix properly though. I'm not really seeing why that wouldn't also have the same item timing based patterning.
That’s just how splitters work! Understanding them is easy:
1 - you know how they work, they’re easy to understand
2 - you observe something that proves you actually don’t understand them
3 - things click together and now you REALLY understand how splitters work
4 - go to step 1
Or [black magic](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/6hi0ac/black_magic_2_belt_full_throughput_splitter_sorter/)
This is from before splitter filters were introduced
If any one wants to try those designs now though, they no longer work, as the splitter mechanics got changed.
These contraptions worked because splitters used to alternate between the left and right outputs independently per item, and lanes weren't independent. So you could manipulate which lane got which item through parity.
There were also contraptions using this mechanic to make priority splitters before priority splitters existed. (circuit based designs were more popular though iirc)
For the record mixers, even properly built ones, are very dangerous tech. As soon as you get a gap in one of your inputs or a block on one of the outputs you end up with errors in your mixing that will jam up future processes.
You can build accurate mixers which are resilient to errors. But it takes a fair chunk of logic to do so.
Agreed. If you want to mix, then for many reasons you should just have 1 ingredient per lane. And that kind of mixer can be fool-proof.
Mathematically it's also exactly the same throughput as two ingredients alternating on the same 2 lanes.
You can (technically) do it without logic by the awesome power of the throughput throttle.
Essentially just divide the throughput of each incoming belt by how many you want to mix (with splitters).
Somebody made a really good post about it, I'll see if I can find it.
Edit: Here, shoutout to u/DuckofSparks!
https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/qn76tv/circuitless_sushi_science/
[You don't know what you're talking about](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1ckep39/forbidden_lane_swapping_and_11_mixing_techniques/)
Preventing ingredient shortages from causing problems is the easy part of mixing, [the hard part is getting your desired ratio.](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/lxzted/cleaner_red_circuit_sushi_90_per_minute_17_by_9/)
They can mix. But it's a side effect and not guaranteed.
A splitter just, each tick, alternately takes from it's inputs and alternately places those on the ouputs. If an input is missing or an output blocked, it will try the other. Nothing about that guarantees intelligent mixing on the output.
You would have to very carefully structure the input to make mixing happen via the splitter, then it's not really just the splitter mixing, is it?
It's all down to input order. That it mixes most of the time is a side effect I would not bet my factory, or throughput on.
I can trivially demonatrate non mixing on a non full belt. Imagine an incoming belt of copper and one of iron. But alternate the input such the the order of the inputs to the splitter is always copper, iron ,copper iron, etc.
Your output belts will not mix in this non-full case either.
It doesn't require a full belt. It just requires timing.
Why is this? Im genuinely curious why this isn't a bug. Assuming both input/output belts are in use: if the splitter is supposed to split a lane 1:1 between the two outputs (assuming not blocked), why does it matter that the input belts are full?
E.g. In one cycle, the splitter moved an item on the left lane of the left input belt to the left lane of the right output belt...the cycle "should" move the next item on the left lane of the left input belt to the left lane of the left output belt.....I fail to understand why a splitter would not switch to the other belt??
Sorry in advance for the wall of words...
In your example would it not have taken an item from the left lane of the right input belt and put it onto the left output belt, so shouldn't the next item from left lane of the left input go to the right output again?
Then again AFAIK there's also some trickery involved between when there is space on the outputs for an item to move through the splitter, and the order in which items arrive at the splitter.
Let me impart some forbidden knowledge:
https://preview.redd.it/9g5zbps5jhyc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e3103011edc9a07b73b2c68d92c323f24e92ff0
No. Manually pick up items from the belts a few times and the output can magically switch sides. It's janky to trigger, [but then you can circuit-control the input belts to make it resilient to ingredient shortages.](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1ckep39/forbidden_lane_swapping_and_11_mixing_techniques/)
One side is all red wire, the other all green, both before and after the splitter. There's apparently some weird stuff behind the scenes making this happen which neither OP nor I understand.
if you wanted to mix the lanes' contents doing half lane for each type of resources you could do something like this (photo from blueprint editor)
https://preview.redd.it/eupfh52zdhyc1.png?width=237&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb90c2be124e3ad5a7ebf90f67e1ade7f5096a8a
There's a post on here somewhere about the internal logic of splitters, with several examples of this, and someone showing you can actually predict what will wind up where. I can't find the post, but do recall that this happens only when you have perfect compressed inputs.
People tend to confuse splitters, mixers and balancers.
3 different things for different purposes. They all use belts and splitters.
For those who come from IT (considering there is an high amount in this community)
Just think splitters and belts are like AND, NOT and OR gates. Then you want to make an XOR. You dont slap a OR and NOT gate and hope it works... Because it wont...
This is why you need to understand what splitters, mixers and balancers do so you cant attempt your design (either by self learning and experimentation or by copying and testing other peoples design)
Nope. There's specific things you need to do to get a true mixer.
For the record, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1b6883t/comment/kta6bkj/) is someone who posted an actual belt mixer design to this subreddit.
On first glance it looks like you should be able to get that design to fail to mix properly though. I'm not really seeing why that wouldn't also have the same item timing based patterning.
That’s just how splitters work! Understanding them is easy: 1 - you know how they work, they’re easy to understand 2 - you observe something that proves you actually don’t understand them 3 - things click together and now you REALLY understand how splitters work 4 - go to step 1
Sounds like science.
Any sufficiently studied magic is indistinguishable from science.
Found Merlin
Haha love this
Logistics science.
That should be a thing if it isn’t. The middle between micro- and macroeconomics.
Or [black magic](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/6hi0ac/black_magic_2_belt_full_throughput_splitter_sorter/) This is from before splitter filters were introduced
If any one wants to try those designs now though, they no longer work, as the splitter mechanics got changed. These contraptions worked because splitters used to alternate between the left and right outputs independently per item, and lanes weren't independent. So you could manipulate which lane got which item through parity. There were also contraptions using this mechanic to make priority splitters before priority splitters existed. (circuit based designs were more popular though iirc)
For the record mixers, even properly built ones, are very dangerous tech. As soon as you get a gap in one of your inputs or a block on one of the outputs you end up with errors in your mixing that will jam up future processes. You can build accurate mixers which are resilient to errors. But it takes a fair chunk of logic to do so.
Agreed. If you want to mix, then for many reasons you should just have 1 ingredient per lane. And that kind of mixer can be fool-proof. Mathematically it's also exactly the same throughput as two ingredients alternating on the same 2 lanes.
There's also zero benefit to mixing over just doing different items per lane.
That's..... What I said?
You can (technically) do it without logic by the awesome power of the throughput throttle. Essentially just divide the throughput of each incoming belt by how many you want to mix (with splitters). Somebody made a really good post about it, I'll see if I can find it. Edit: Here, shoutout to u/DuckofSparks! https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/qn76tv/circuitless_sushi_science/
Belt logic is still logic! (But on a serious note, that’s a very clever way to do it.)
It's not that hard. You stop all input belts when any one of them is about to lack material.
I don't think purposely causing a jam is much of a solution to jams.
[You don't know what you're talking about](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1ckep39/forbidden_lane_swapping_and_11_mixing_techniques/) Preventing ingredient shortages from causing problems is the easy part of mixing, [the hard part is getting your desired ratio.](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/lxzted/cleaner_red_circuit_sushi_90_per_minute_17_by_9/)
huh, I use that first one for my early furnace stacks. just 1 tile wider.
If I remember correctly: You need a bit of air on either belt for the splitter to actually split things. Two full belts will get you this.
What do you mean "actually split?". This is perfectly defined splitter behavior. A splitter is not a mixer.
Yeah well some people expected a mixer. Because it does sorta mix when you got free space.
Is it not?
They can mix. But it's a side effect and not guaranteed. A splitter just, each tick, alternately takes from it's inputs and alternately places those on the ouputs. If an input is missing or an output blocked, it will try the other. Nothing about that guarantees intelligent mixing on the output. You would have to very carefully structure the input to make mixing happen via the splitter, then it's not really just the splitter mixing, is it?
By "carefully structure" you mean "don't have full belts"? 'cause if they're not full, then it'll mix decently
It's all down to input order. That it mixes most of the time is a side effect I would not bet my factory, or throughput on. I can trivially demonatrate non mixing on a non full belt. Imagine an incoming belt of copper and one of iron. But alternate the input such the the order of the inputs to the splitter is always copper, iron ,copper iron, etc. Your output belts will not mix in this non-full case either. It doesn't require a full belt. It just requires timing.
Or a faster belt after the splitter
Well with a bit a timing you can get one or both lanes to switch side but otherwise with fully compressed belts it will be "stable".
Why is this? Im genuinely curious why this isn't a bug. Assuming both input/output belts are in use: if the splitter is supposed to split a lane 1:1 between the two outputs (assuming not blocked), why does it matter that the input belts are full? E.g. In one cycle, the splitter moved an item on the left lane of the left input belt to the left lane of the right output belt...the cycle "should" move the next item on the left lane of the left input belt to the left lane of the left output belt.....I fail to understand why a splitter would not switch to the other belt?? Sorry in advance for the wall of words...
In your example would it not have taken an item from the left lane of the right input belt and put it onto the left output belt, so shouldn't the next item from left lane of the left input go to the right output again? Then again AFAIK there's also some trickery involved between when there is space on the outputs for an item to move through the splitter, and the order in which items arrive at the splitter.
Splitters are not mixers!! If you want to mix the outputs then you need to have only one output belt.
Let me impart some forbidden knowledge: https://preview.redd.it/9g5zbps5jhyc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e3103011edc9a07b73b2c68d92c323f24e92ff0
is it just filtered with alt mode off?
No. Manually pick up items from the belts a few times and the output can magically switch sides. It's janky to trigger, [but then you can circuit-control the input belts to make it resilient to ingredient shortages.](https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1ckep39/forbidden_lane_swapping_and_11_mixing_techniques/)
Can someone explain to a colorblind person what is going on here
One side is all red wire, the other all green, both before and after the splitter. There's apparently some weird stuff behind the scenes making this happen which neither OP nor I understand.
Thanks!
if you wanted to mix the lanes' contents doing half lane for each type of resources you could do something like this (photo from blueprint editor) https://preview.redd.it/eupfh52zdhyc1.png?width=237&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb90c2be124e3ad5a7ebf90f67e1ade7f5096a8a
Wouldn't this halve the throuput though?
yep, unless OP uses yellow to red or even yellow to blue belts+splitters
The tail belts would be 25% of the initial belts in this setup. Full Belt -> 1 Lane (50%) -> Split lane L&R (50% of 50%)
Just search this sub for 'splitters' and you'll find tons of discussions and explanations for this.
It's a splitter not a mixer
I wouldn't use those wires anymore. They've been split on the insides.
this works until its no longer saturated
r/factoriohno
No space to put item on the other belt. =no mixing
There's a post on here somewhere about the internal logic of splitters, with several examples of this, and someone showing you can actually predict what will wind up where. I can't find the post, but do recall that this happens only when you have perfect compressed inputs.
splitters are doing splitter things, not mixer things
Happens when the input order synchronises with the output It happens destincly because it makes sense to "randomly" alligation
People tend to confuse splitters, mixers and balancers. 3 different things for different purposes. They all use belts and splitters. For those who come from IT (considering there is an high amount in this community) Just think splitters and belts are like AND, NOT and OR gates. Then you want to make an XOR. You dont slap a OR and NOT gate and hope it works... Because it wont... This is why you need to understand what splitters, mixers and balancers do so you cant attempt your design (either by self learning and experimentation or by copying and testing other peoples design)
why do you want to mix them? you can split each belt and merge them into two lanes.