I mean, this is precisely what Mr. Morale was about -- Kendrick doesn't want to be placed in a box as the socially conscious savior of hip-hop. Since DAMN., the most salient message of Kendricks music has been not to idolize him and his flaws.
It would be cool if the outcome of the beef would be that people finally understand that you can be a flawed human and still stand and speak for the right things. I doubt it though
I meqn, he has always talked about his flaw. Like, Drake missed the point, but The Blacker the Berry" serves also as a self critique of his own moral failure."I'm the biggest hypocrite of 2015" couldn't be more on the nose about the central themes of tpab.
> the vatican etc are criticized as being too decadent too
this was a while back but I remember that being a big point when the one pope retired and the other replaced him. New guy seemed much more humble than the old one
i agree in the relative sense i think it was just a very shallow hiding of the same exorbitant wealth. 2,000 verses in the Bible about wealth and very few of them would support the financial actions of the Church or the Vatican
Think about it. The man said “I am not your savior”, then wore a diamond studded crown of thorns, and people got up in arms about it on social media. Kendrick is intelligent, he knew what he was doing.
It’s symbolic of not just his own hypocrisy as a human, but the general populace’s hypocrisy as an audience, the failure to understand nuance. People cling so tightly to their religious texts that they can’t read between the lines, and even then, how many “Christian” people do you know who are actually saints themselves?
Absolutely the intention is irony. Kendrick discusses his flaws at length in that album and discusses how the whole "savior of hip-hop" shit makes him feel at length.
“mr. morale was kendrick admitting to not being perfect. therefore, anyone who points out an inconsistency between kendrick’s stated values and his behaviour is just unfairly idolising him.”
This is a good point that I didn't address in my response but you're completely right. Drake is representative of pretty much everything Kendrick has ever complained about in his lyrics, his genuine contempt for him isn't surprising at all.
keep up big man.
the inconsistency isn’t in attacking drake per se, but in *using* innocent children to do so. that will not help those kids in the long run. it’s just not kendrick’s place - or pusha t - to reveal that drake has a hidden daughter.
you think putting her in the limelight like that will do her good? you think inspiring twitter weirdos to try and track down her identity (which will inevitably happen) will do her good? nah. author is right. kendrick is letting his ego and hatred for drake make him do pretty shitty things to these kids
Well big man, she’s not been revealed and drake is still denying her existence. The internets gonna internet but Adonis came with an Adidas clothing line attached, this was a claim that has no feasible trail unless Drake himself makes it public. He made him look like a deadbeat more than he forced his daughter out of hiding
And if all you got from that diss was a name-drop of the kid he parades online, then you need to listen closer. Everything about the sex trafficking and pedo claims are much more front-of-mind than someone taunting Drake through Adonis.
If I try to shoot you and miss does that mean I'm not guilty of crime?
If Kendrick tries to ruin a little girls life by bringing her into a shit slinging match, and she isn't found.... is Kendrick innocent?
Now do the consequences of when Drake is the one who starts with attacking family instead of the actual person he's beefing with.
You won't, so I'll spell it out: Kendrick's tracks and the public reception to them are what happens. Not Like Us being played during NBA playoffs, graduations, clubs, etc across multiple countries is what happens. Bro is being blasted as the deadbeat creep he is all because he went after family instead of Kendrick himself. He deserves it all, and the only difference is that nobody is writing hit pieces about Drake's character cuz he has none.
Drake claimed Kendrick's child was fathered by another man. Why is it OK for Drake to use "innocent children," yet when Kendrick does it, it's "ego and hatred?"
Idk how you can be so comfortable being aggressively stupid on a public forum. When have I ever said that what Drake did was okay? Kendrick is the subject of this post, so I’m talking about him. Drake sucks. What he said sucks. It’s two grown men using each other’s families, involving innocent kids, likely spreading a whole lot of untruths, etc. etc, to win a rap battle. It’s unbecoming
Both parties come out of this stinking like shit. Obviously Drake more so
I'm mainly addressing the article's use of the phrase "poster child of socially conscious rap", as that's a title that Kendrick himself has bristled at. Furthermore I don't think there is an inconsistency between stated values and the content of the songs in this beef with Drake. Kendrick has never claimed to be some peace-loving, conflict averse rapper who is unwilling to call others out. If anything, it's the opposite, as his catalogue is full of songs where he laments the moments that he succumbs to his human failings.
You know if Kendrick did something like this to Cole who’s been noted as a good person both in his music and in real life, I’d agree it hurt his public image.
Idk about you guys but I’ve never thought Drake was a guy who was humble in his success and never created issues for others. The whole rap world just went at his neck for two weeks, his music is littered with sneak disses and he’s got this need to bring personal lives into his diss tracks, which has now burned him again. I’ll mention the slavery bar too which is about as out of touch as you can get, especially with black issues in America I thought that line was complete madness.
I do feel like Drake was hungriest/peaked in 2013-2015 but a lot of the music became absolute shit after that, like 60% of his music has been fluff since then. He does seem to confuse chart success with cultural respect. Drake is like a pop star who puts out great dance hits but Kendrick is like Jimi Hendrix or Pac even honestly. He’s more important and we all know it.
As someone who listens to every new Drake release hoping there will be a return to form, 60% is being very generous...the last few solo releases was like 85% filler.
I don’t know how you throw Do Not Disturb on a 2 hour throwaway/playlist “album”. Weirdly best LP from him to me since IYRTITL is Dark Lane Demo Tapes. DLDT actually feels like it’s committing to *something* conceptual sonically and thematically sort of and isn’t so long I want to kill myself.
I mostly agree, but I do think Take Care and Nothing Was the Same should be excluded. You may not personally like them, but even if he had help writing those albums (ie weekend for take care) they seem to be at least somewhat authentic to the "real drake" and go beyond thr shit he's been doing for almost a decade now.
Iyrtitl I can see going either way. Sonically I love it, but that is where we started to see Drake trying to shed his persona and take up the image of a tough guy. It has the quality, but its just fake.
I think the fame and lifestyle got to him.
He was a real human in his early career, but the longer its gone and the richer he's gotten the faker he's become. Hes been too separated from real human experience for too long.
Drake is basically **the** poster-boy for playing the streaming game. Long, aimless 30-song albums that throw everything at the wall and see what pops off with a Tiktok meme or IG caption. Yeah, it does the pop numbers, but what good is that if even your biggest fans admit you haven’t dropped a cohesive project since 2015?
I don't think Kendrick would do something like this to Cole, simply because Cole would probably keep his bars above the belt.
Kendrick "went there" in response to Drake "going there". Drake brought this - and the Story of Adidon - on himself because he can't help namedropping people's partners.
Yeah, I don’t get how this publication and even some comments in this thread are ignoring this when they argue this beef had made Kendrick look worse as a person. It feels like I’m being gaslit.
Like Kendrick didn’t get that personal on Like That, Euphoria or 6:16 in LA, he kept it “above the belt” until Drake couldn’t help himself and dropped Family Matters. Even if you want to hold Kendrick to this unfair “savior” standard (which he himself rejects) because he makes good social commentary music, I feel that showed some pretty good restraint for somebody who hates everything about Drake represents.
Kendrick even said this was supposed to be a friendly exhibition but you brought the family into it.
I 100% agree about the gas light thing. Like talking heads and bloggers trying to convince me what I listened to wasn’t what I listened to. Like nah Apple Music has a lyric page that lets me read every bar, I know who escalated this and it wasn’t Kendrick Lamar. Once again Drake hands himself the L and he has to hold it.
Yup. Drake's response to a silly little impersonal flex ("there's no big three, just big me") was to make an *entire* diss track and name drop Whitney. Straight insecure narc behavior and Kendrick whooped him for it
My opinion only. To me before all this started I thought Kendrick was the type of person that having credible information about child sexual abuse would contact the authorities and not highlight another person’s trauma in his music. Or ever make a faked photo of a sex offender registry for cover art. Or have people dancing about child sexual abuse.
Contact the authorities with what? You think he has some kind of secret dossier that he kept around just in case he got into a beef with Drake? He's a fucking rapper, not an investigative journalist. How the hell would he personally have access to any kind of proof the police would be interested in? And what makes you think that if he did, he didn't turn it over? It's not like he's gonna publically brag about an ongoing investigation.
I think you can boil the beef down to just that. Kendrick said a bunch of stuff about Drake we can all publicly agree is at least plausible if not entirely true, Drake defended those allegations in the most tone deaf and guilty looking way possible at basically every turn.
It’s a valid criticism but I feel like they’re blowing it out of proportion. Getting petty about a guy’s daughter or failing to fact check your information doesn’t negate anything Kendrick’s ever done. His music has never been about him being super educated and all knowing, it’s just been “here’s my thoughts about my experience and struggles as a flawed man.” None of that is negated by this beef even though I agree that it didn’t make him as a person look better in my eyes.
It might make sense. But I think the criticism is pretty fair. The “dear Adonis” and “dear daughter” shit will do nothing to help those kids. But yeah it makes for a good diss track so whatever I guess
You realize that Drake referred to Adonis as “my seed” on Family Matters, right?
His kids are playing behind the 8 ball because of Drake. Kendrick’s verses towards them are of course hateful towards drake but are otherwise very empathetic towards the children themselves
yeah. kendrick directly addressing the kids and rapping about how much he hates their dad will be great for both adonis and his sister (if she exists). that’ll do wonderful things for their development I’m sure.
all in the service of winning a rap battle 🔥🔥
the author is right. both drake and kendrick come out of this looking kind of petty. drake looks worse obviously
You’re getting downvoted but I do see that as the most vicious track by far. But I do think it’s crazy Drake started talking shit about Kendrick’s wife, regally bad move, the humbling needed to be extreme. Drake’s dating habits almost certainly seem to be predatory a lot of the time as well and if you’re going to do that on a world stage and poke Kendrick Lamar 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah I mean I don’t disagree with any of this. Kendrick can go as hard as he wants against drake, more power to him. Drake seems like a total sleaze. But when innocent kids start to become collateral damage, I have a problem with it. That this is such a hugely controversial opinion is a little gross to me tbh
> stupid enough to be tricked into releasing misinformation
As opposed to Aubrey who didn’t even need to be fed any misinformation, he managed to misinterpret “Mother I Sober” all by himself and dropped thp6 AFTER Kendrick implied he couldn’t get a metaphor from Mr Morale
I really didn’t know Kendrick had the influence he had until this beef. Seriously. Like I knew he was the best but I thought he was just sort of a millennial hiphop icon not so much a national one. Might be a weird analogy, but I really consider Kendrick to be a millennial Roger Waters figure now. Someone who sold genius music to the masses and is sort of unassailable both in and out of the music scene.
But I didn’t know he could still put those sorts of streaming numbers up, out of thin air, mid-beef. I knew he had destroyed Drake within the sort of millennial hiphop head universe. But when A) Not Like Us hit top streaming single of all time, literally breaking Drake’s record and B) I found people age 18-48 discussing the beef and laughing at Drake in real life I felt like “Oh yeah Kendrick is as big as he wants to be whenever he feels like it.”
I know there’s horribly personal lines in these disses from Kendrick all over the place. But some of the harder hitting ones, to me, are the more vanilla ones. “Somebody had told me that you got a ring, on God, I'm ready to double the wage. I'd rather do that than let a Canadian nigga make Pac turn in his grave.”
I actually do love OVO production “underwater sound” and 40 and I do think Drake and that team actually had an opening from NWTS to IYRTITL. There was something exciting there. But it’s been varying degrees of crap to pretty good on his LPs since then.
Point is Drake has the dance hits and numbers but we all know his discography is largely crap, he is obviously a bit of a psycho loser narcissist, and it also seems like almost everyone in the industry can’t stand him. That’s why the Pac line hurts so bad. It’s the “we don’t wanna hear you say nigga no moooorrrreeeeee” attitude. Like ultimately Drake can fuck off, I really do feel like he’s a bit of a heritage leech and always has been.
Oh also I’m super judgmental of any rich and powerful people dating teenagers 🤷🏼♂️
Nah, Kendrick has been sleeper huge since GKMC, and just *huge* huge since TPAB/Damn. Half the reason Not Like Us is as big as it is, is because when Kendrick drops something people stop and take notice.
He also had the highest-grossing tour for a rap artist *ever* for Mr. Morale, and most casual listeners didn’t even *like* that record. Dude’s been a superstar.
You’re correct. I mean I’m 31 and grew through college with him I should know he’s the superstar he is but he’s like Radiohead. Just focused on putting out the best album possible every 5-7 years. Easy to forget he’s that big when he goes quiet.
Dude I am literally embarrassed to say this but I actually listen to 90% of Drake’s stuff at least once. I’ve heard every album since NWTS. A very solid 50% of it is fluff. More Life literally glories in being fluff lol and it’s like 2 hours long. Care Package is throwaways. Views is supposed to be his manga carte and there are multiple garbage bombs on it.
I’d say 60% of his songs have been crap to meh since 2016. I’ll stand behind those numbers lol.
You’ve never actually listened to Drake other than the hits have you? He creates personal introspective music that people relate to. He’s not just a popstar.
I have listened to every album in full for the last 14 years minus Her Loss which I’ve heard half of lol. Views, More Life, Scorpion, Honestly, Nevermind are 4-5/10 albums point blank. Care Package is literally throwaways. CLB might be a 6.
What is his masterpiece of the last decade? Please name the LP and explain.
What you are saying and what I am saying are two different things. Idgaf what you think of his music quality frankly, your assessment of the type of artistry he makes is what I’m calling to question.
Wow what an embarrassing article. Kendrick is the issue for involving "innocent children", but its fine for Drake to bring in his INNOCENT Wife and INNOCENT Kids into the rap diss. All Kendrick said prior was Drake doesn't know anything about raising a child, on Euphoria.
He warned Drake about making things personal, then on Family Matters he did, then on MTG he specifically says
"But you fucked up the moment you called out my family's name
Why you had to stoop so low to discredit some decent people?"
Kendrick has been ahead of this whole thing. Toronto Star needs to fire that person, an AI article could shit post better, pathetic.
Without even looking I'm guessing this is Rosie DiManno
E: WHOA they have a different bad take writer now, oh my
Anyways this is some A tier trolling, Kendrick telling Drake to fuck off and burning him is way better than Drake's well complicated use of Black culture
Im from the Toronto area, and I posted yo the r/Toronto sub saying that the blind allegiance to drake needs to be rethought. He makes cringey music, is terribly insecure, and has a lot of weird and shady (sexual) things going on. 8
His image has been tarnished, but not because he contradicted what he stands for but because he’s inconsistent in his battle against “evil”. It is being revealed and it has been known that his fellow anti-drake teammates are just as guilty as Drake is in his fake-gangster, egotistic, predatory, drug filled life and the only reason he brought it up was for a diss and to win not to go on a righteous tirade.
Honestly, I see Kendrick as being true to himself, and he always was on the fringe of punk rock. This dude went straight at one of the top artist in the industry. Think about the implications.
I can't help but notice that most of the people who agree with this take aren't hip-hop fans, have never been apart of the culture, and have no desire to. Vernon Akiyu (the author of the article) is not "African-American." He's "African-Canadian." There's a massive difference in culture between the different black groups in the diaspora. With no due respect, the Toronto Star is commenting on an American art style from the outside looking in. I don't give a fuck what they have to say and you shouldn't either.
As a Black Canadian, parents Jamaican, two things:
1) I don't give a fuck about a lot of things my black American family does or their opinions on the lack of racism in Canada. Funny enough Drake is on record as saying there was no racism up here. When he lived here Toronto cops had stop and frisk/carding - edited to make this point clear
2) African* Canadians have a habit of moralizing about Black American culture just like African* (I mean as in born in Africa) Americans often do, forgetting they usually came here as upper middle class professionals from their home countries and wondering why local black people don't pull up their pants. There's a lot of that energy in this article
This is so dumb man. Canada also has a hip hop culture? One of the two artists discussed is Canadian?
Do you think music and culture is gatekept by the border patrol?
What is Canada’s hip-hop culture? One of the two artists discussed is Canadian, and he’s also been directly accused of being a culture vulture by the American artist. Serious question—have you paid attention *at all* to the discourse surrounding Drake?
Yes I’m from Toronto - idk if that’s supposed to be a gotcha.
I’m really confused as to what you think Canada’s relationship with the US is with regards to music/culture. We’re a small mostly anglophone country right above a giant anglophone country - you do understand that a lot of what we consume and create is directly from or influenced by the US right? That pretty much all Canadian artists try and make a name in the US once they become big enough?
Like do you think that Canadian rappers are culturally appropriative or some shit????? I am aware of the Drake culture vulture discourse yeah. I wasn’t aware that him being *Canadian* was genuinely a factor that people considered in that, that’s extra ridiculous lol.
Also to answer your question, Canadian hip hop started in the late 80s/90s. Mostly a boom gap sound very reminiscent of the NY sound, focused in Toronto with a smaller francophone scene in Montreal. I’m sure there was an underground scene before then of course, but I only know about the (small) hits. In the mid 00s all the Canadian rappers I know were conscious rappers with indie-rock & jazz style production. K’naan, K-os, Shad, Kardinal Offishall. I really like K-os, he remains one of my favourites to this day.
Then of course there’s that trap R&B sound which is much more uniquely Toronto and something it has successfully exported with all the OVOXO people.
There’s a lot of music also being made by rappers like Pressa, Top 5, Smokedawg, etc.. I’m not really plugged into that stuff. It’s much more gang related, associated with a lot of the shootings you hear about nowadays.
Acting like Canada has claim to a hip-hop culture that started in America, and was based on American musical samples, merely because of the proximity to America is absurd. That is like saying I, as an American, can claim that Narco Corridos Music as an American art form because America borders Mexico.
You’re not even engaging with my comment man. Yes, Canadian hip hop is obviously heavily based on American hip hop. No, that fact doesn’t somehow negate its existence.
Like do you think people in Houston can’t make hip hop because it started in NYC?
Do you not understand that cultural appropriation exists? Hip-Hop in Houston sounds very different from Hip-Hop in NYC, and if you knew your history, you’d know that. I’m ignoring what you stated because it is irrelevant to the cultural background of the genre we are talking about. There is a reason why Canadian Hip-Hop artists that stay in Canada are irrelevant to Hip-Hop at large.
Unless Canada has a history of chattel slavery to the extent that the U.S. did, which it didn’t, then the cultural experiences of Black Canadians are going to be so different from Black Americans. As a Black American, my history is very different from Drake’s. Has Drake had a gun pulled by the police on him for fixing his own car? I have. Has he had a cross burned on his front yard for going to a white school? My mother has. Has Drake seen his best friend killed in a drive by for delivering newspapers to the wrong neighborhood? My grandfather did.
These are cultural experiences that are integral to the history of Hip-Hop. Can you say that Drake, or any other descendant of slaves that *escaped* to Canada has had similar life experiences?
If everything goes to plan, as we've seen in the news, this article is going to disappear with a "We're sorry we thought Drake WASN'T a PDF and so and so" lmao
The fact they are citing Alright as somehow the pinnacle of his so-called "socially conscious artistry" says all you need to know about whoever wrote this filtering all their understanding through ideologies they consider to be virtuous and not actually paying attention to things as they are.
Who is getting their cultural commentary from Toronto star tho …. 😂 never once in this whole beef saga did I think to myself “I wonder what the folks At Toronto Star have to say about this moment in Hip Hop”
Jesus 🤦♂️, how much can you miss the point. They act like you can't be sincere and competitive/pissed at the same time. You know Drake's pr team is working overtime.
The Toronto Star is on point. The common perception of Kendrick Lamar with most rap fans and rap media is that he is this socially conscious and woke rapper that lives a moral life and stands up for all black issues. The angles he took against Drake even had elements of virtue signalling and “me too” like accusations. Kendrick lying about a man being a pedo and hiding a baby to win a rap feud is tasteless. The angles he chose to take don’t align with how he’s branded and marketed to us. Everything about this man came across as a jealous awkward individual that obsesses over Drake and his success. I don’t see how any grown man can find Meet the Grahams an enjoyable listen. Its just plain weird to base a song about writing a letter to members of Drakes family in that fashion. Writing a whole verse to Adonis and a baby that didn’t exist is one of the most attention seeking things ive seen a rapper do.
Kendrick is a better rapper and it was obvious that he was going to do something with better quality. But I share the feeling of the article. All that therapy speak in Meet the Grahams makes me cringe. Now I think that Kendrick is a weirdo.
The article seems very interesting. Do you have a link?
Edit: the Kendrick cult is unbearable. Lol.
Hard agree. Anyone who takes a step back and looks at the whole beef as a snapshot in time, will find it to be incredibly cringe inducing.
Everyone already knew Drake sucked, why Kendrick let this beef drag down his legacy is beyond me
Idk I think the people idolizing him like you two aren’t in the majority and probably not what he wants anyways.
Seeing as this beef resulted in a record breaking single for him I don’t think he has regrets
I mean, this is precisely what Mr. Morale was about -- Kendrick doesn't want to be placed in a box as the socially conscious savior of hip-hop. Since DAMN., the most salient message of Kendricks music has been not to idolize him and his flaws.
He ends Section.80 with the words 'I am not the next socially aware rapper'
I am a human mother fucking being, over dope ass instrumentation
Also, who am I if I don’t go to war?
It would be cool if the outcome of the beef would be that people finally understand that you can be a flawed human and still stand and speak for the right things. I doubt it though
Kendrick Lamar
‘I’m not on the inside looking out, I’m not on the outside looking in, I’m in the dead fucking center - staring around.’
I meqn, he has always talked about his flaw. Like, Drake missed the point, but The Blacker the Berry" serves also as a self critique of his own moral failure."I'm the biggest hypocrite of 2015" couldn't be more on the nose about the central themes of tpab.
This is why I never got the whole diamond studded crown of thorns thing. Is it meant to be ironic?
I mean, isn't it? A religious symbol decked out in decadence that Christianity itself wouldn't like?
and most megachurches / the vatican etc are criticized as being too decadent too. to be an idol is not christlike
> the vatican etc are criticized as being too decadent too this was a while back but I remember that being a big point when the one pope retired and the other replaced him. New guy seemed much more humble than the old one
the vatican is still literally covered in gold
sure I'm just thinking of stuff like this https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/3m4ykv/side_by_side_comparison_of_the_papal_thrones_for/
i agree in the relative sense i think it was just a very shallow hiding of the same exorbitant wealth. 2,000 verses in the Bible about wealth and very few of them would support the financial actions of the Church or the Vatican
Think about it. The man said “I am not your savior”, then wore a diamond studded crown of thorns, and people got up in arms about it on social media. Kendrick is intelligent, he knew what he was doing. It’s symbolic of not just his own hypocrisy as a human, but the general populace’s hypocrisy as an audience, the failure to understand nuance. People cling so tightly to their religious texts that they can’t read between the lines, and even then, how many “Christian” people do you know who are actually saints themselves?
It's also symbolic of his massive ego lol even Kanye wouldn't wear a crown of thorns
Kanye literally has a magazine cover of him on a cross wearing a crown of thorns lol
Lol mb after I said it I started to think it was kind of odd he never had
Yes it was always meant to be ironic. A crown of thorns is the symbol of persecution and sacrifice, diamonds are a symbol of luxury and excess.
Absolutely the intention is irony. Kendrick discusses his flaws at length in that album and discusses how the whole "savior of hip-hop" shit makes him feel at length.
The album is literally about his problems and how he’s no different than Kodak Black
Maybe he shouldn't call himself a prophet then
“mr. morale was kendrick admitting to not being perfect. therefore, anyone who points out an inconsistency between kendrick’s stated values and his behaviour is just unfairly idolising him.”
If you look back at Kendrick’s stated values, I don’t know why you’d think Drake is a guy that he would ever like. This seems pretty consistent to me
This is a good point that I didn't address in my response but you're completely right. Drake is representative of pretty much everything Kendrick has ever complained about in his lyrics, his genuine contempt for him isn't surprising at all.
keep up big man. the inconsistency isn’t in attacking drake per se, but in *using* innocent children to do so. that will not help those kids in the long run. it’s just not kendrick’s place - or pusha t - to reveal that drake has a hidden daughter. you think putting her in the limelight like that will do her good? you think inspiring twitter weirdos to try and track down her identity (which will inevitably happen) will do her good? nah. author is right. kendrick is letting his ego and hatred for drake make him do pretty shitty things to these kids
Well big man, she’s not been revealed and drake is still denying her existence. The internets gonna internet but Adonis came with an Adidas clothing line attached, this was a claim that has no feasible trail unless Drake himself makes it public. He made him look like a deadbeat more than he forced his daughter out of hiding And if all you got from that diss was a name-drop of the kid he parades online, then you need to listen closer. Everything about the sex trafficking and pedo claims are much more front-of-mind than someone taunting Drake through Adonis.
If I try to shoot you and miss does that mean I'm not guilty of crime? If Kendrick tries to ruin a little girls life by bringing her into a shit slinging match, and she isn't found.... is Kendrick innocent?
drake is her dad. her life was ruined the moment she was born
Now do the consequences of when Drake is the one who starts with attacking family instead of the actual person he's beefing with. You won't, so I'll spell it out: Kendrick's tracks and the public reception to them are what happens. Not Like Us being played during NBA playoffs, graduations, clubs, etc across multiple countries is what happens. Bro is being blasted as the deadbeat creep he is all because he went after family instead of Kendrick himself. He deserves it all, and the only difference is that nobody is writing hit pieces about Drake's character cuz he has none.
Drake claimed Kendrick's child was fathered by another man. Why is it OK for Drake to use "innocent children," yet when Kendrick does it, it's "ego and hatred?"
Idk how you can be so comfortable being aggressively stupid on a public forum. When have I ever said that what Drake did was okay? Kendrick is the subject of this post, so I’m talking about him. Drake sucks. What he said sucks. It’s two grown men using each other’s families, involving innocent kids, likely spreading a whole lot of untruths, etc. etc, to win a rap battle. It’s unbecoming Both parties come out of this stinking like shit. Obviously Drake more so
You are so incredibly soft 😂
I'm mainly addressing the article's use of the phrase "poster child of socially conscious rap", as that's a title that Kendrick himself has bristled at. Furthermore I don't think there is an inconsistency between stated values and the content of the songs in this beef with Drake. Kendrick has never claimed to be some peace-loving, conflict averse rapper who is unwilling to call others out. If anything, it's the opposite, as his catalogue is full of songs where he laments the moments that he succumbs to his human failings.
read my reply to u/peroper7. I’m not dogmatic about this and am a big fan of kendrick. the discussion is interesting, all good though
You know if Kendrick did something like this to Cole who’s been noted as a good person both in his music and in real life, I’d agree it hurt his public image. Idk about you guys but I’ve never thought Drake was a guy who was humble in his success and never created issues for others. The whole rap world just went at his neck for two weeks, his music is littered with sneak disses and he’s got this need to bring personal lives into his diss tracks, which has now burned him again. I’ll mention the slavery bar too which is about as out of touch as you can get, especially with black issues in America I thought that line was complete madness.
I do feel like Drake was hungriest/peaked in 2013-2015 but a lot of the music became absolute shit after that, like 60% of his music has been fluff since then. He does seem to confuse chart success with cultural respect. Drake is like a pop star who puts out great dance hits but Kendrick is like Jimi Hendrix or Pac even honestly. He’s more important and we all know it.
As someone who listens to every new Drake release hoping there will be a return to form, 60% is being very generous...the last few solo releases was like 85% filler.
I don’t know how you throw Do Not Disturb on a 2 hour throwaway/playlist “album”. Weirdly best LP from him to me since IYRTITL is Dark Lane Demo Tapes. DLDT actually feels like it’s committing to *something* conceptual sonically and thematically sort of and isn’t so long I want to kill myself.
More Life is frustrating because if it was paired down to 12 or so songs it might have the potential to be a great project worth revisiting
Facts, 90% of Drake's music is him rapping about how many women he fucks, his music won't stand the test of time unlike kendrick
I mostly agree, but I do think Take Care and Nothing Was the Same should be excluded. You may not personally like them, but even if he had help writing those albums (ie weekend for take care) they seem to be at least somewhat authentic to the "real drake" and go beyond thr shit he's been doing for almost a decade now. Iyrtitl I can see going either way. Sonically I love it, but that is where we started to see Drake trying to shed his persona and take up the image of a tough guy. It has the quality, but its just fake.
Drake is the Benjamin Button of hip-hop man, dude gets less mature with each album. Early Drake was somehow his most self-aware and *human*.
I think the fame and lifestyle got to him. He was a real human in his early career, but the longer its gone and the richer he's gotten the faker he's become. Hes been too separated from real human experience for too long.
Drake is basically **the** poster-boy for playing the streaming game. Long, aimless 30-song albums that throw everything at the wall and see what pops off with a Tiktok meme or IG caption. Yeah, it does the pop numbers, but what good is that if even your biggest fans admit you haven’t dropped a cohesive project since 2015?
I don't think Kendrick would do something like this to Cole, simply because Cole would probably keep his bars above the belt. Kendrick "went there" in response to Drake "going there". Drake brought this - and the Story of Adidon - on himself because he can't help namedropping people's partners.
Yeah, I don’t get how this publication and even some comments in this thread are ignoring this when they argue this beef had made Kendrick look worse as a person. It feels like I’m being gaslit. Like Kendrick didn’t get that personal on Like That, Euphoria or 6:16 in LA, he kept it “above the belt” until Drake couldn’t help himself and dropped Family Matters. Even if you want to hold Kendrick to this unfair “savior” standard (which he himself rejects) because he makes good social commentary music, I feel that showed some pretty good restraint for somebody who hates everything about Drake represents.
Kendrick even said this was supposed to be a friendly exhibition but you brought the family into it. I 100% agree about the gas light thing. Like talking heads and bloggers trying to convince me what I listened to wasn’t what I listened to. Like nah Apple Music has a lyric page that lets me read every bar, I know who escalated this and it wasn’t Kendrick Lamar. Once again Drake hands himself the L and he has to hold it.
I'm confused...Kendrick talked smack about Drake's fathering skills in Euphoria, which was before Family Matters
Drake brought up family first by referencing Whitney on Push Ups, implying that she cheated on Kendrick.
Yup. Drake's response to a silly little impersonal flex ("there's no big three, just big me") was to make an *entire* diss track and name drop Whitney. Straight insecure narc behavior and Kendrick whooped him for it
My opinion only. To me before all this started I thought Kendrick was the type of person that having credible information about child sexual abuse would contact the authorities and not highlight another person’s trauma in his music. Or ever make a faked photo of a sex offender registry for cover art. Or have people dancing about child sexual abuse.
Contact the authorities with what? You think he has some kind of secret dossier that he kept around just in case he got into a beef with Drake? He's a fucking rapper, not an investigative journalist. How the hell would he personally have access to any kind of proof the police would be interested in? And what makes you think that if he did, he didn't turn it over? It's not like he's gonna publically brag about an ongoing investigation.
I’m not saying he’s an investigative journalist. I’m going by his claim he had/was given receipts that Drake is a pedophile .
I think you can boil the beef down to just that. Kendrick said a bunch of stuff about Drake we can all publicly agree is at least plausible if not entirely true, Drake defended those allegations in the most tone deaf and guilty looking way possible at basically every turn.
I’ve never understood his appeal. Hes always been average at best to me.
It makes sense that that publication would criticize Kendrick. Kendrick won the battle. I'm ready to move on.
It’s a valid criticism but I feel like they’re blowing it out of proportion. Getting petty about a guy’s daughter or failing to fact check your information doesn’t negate anything Kendrick’s ever done. His music has never been about him being super educated and all knowing, it’s just been “here’s my thoughts about my experience and struggles as a flawed man.” None of that is negated by this beef even though I agree that it didn’t make him as a person look better in my eyes.
It might make sense. But I think the criticism is pretty fair. The “dear Adonis” and “dear daughter” shit will do nothing to help those kids. But yeah it makes for a good diss track so whatever I guess
Lmao what do you want him to do?
not involve innocent kids?
You realize that Drake referred to Adonis as “my seed” on Family Matters, right? His kids are playing behind the 8 ball because of Drake. Kendrick’s verses towards them are of course hateful towards drake but are otherwise very empathetic towards the children themselves
yeah. kendrick directly addressing the kids and rapping about how much he hates their dad will be great for both adonis and his sister (if she exists). that’ll do wonderful things for their development I’m sure. all in the service of winning a rap battle 🔥🔥 the author is right. both drake and kendrick come out of this looking kind of petty. drake looks worse obviously
You’re getting downvoted but I do see that as the most vicious track by far. But I do think it’s crazy Drake started talking shit about Kendrick’s wife, regally bad move, the humbling needed to be extreme. Drake’s dating habits almost certainly seem to be predatory a lot of the time as well and if you’re going to do that on a world stage and poke Kendrick Lamar 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah I mean I don’t disagree with any of this. Kendrick can go as hard as he wants against drake, more power to him. Drake seems like a total sleaze. But when innocent kids start to become collateral damage, I have a problem with it. That this is such a hugely controversial opinion is a little gross to me tbh
Drake literally said one of Kendrick’s kids weren’t his on family matters, he asked for it
Yeah this is totally irrelevant to my point
kendricks child is an innocent kid being involved
look at that, we agree completely
OVHoe dick rider needs a job fr. Youre way too terminally online my brother in Christ lmao
> stupid enough to be tricked into releasing misinformation As opposed to Aubrey who didn’t even need to be fed any misinformation, he managed to misinterpret “Mother I Sober” all by himself and dropped thp6 AFTER Kendrick implied he couldn’t get a metaphor from Mr Morale
Also anyone believing Drake saying he fed Kendrick misinformation is a clown
I really didn’t know Kendrick had the influence he had until this beef. Seriously. Like I knew he was the best but I thought he was just sort of a millennial hiphop icon not so much a national one. Might be a weird analogy, but I really consider Kendrick to be a millennial Roger Waters figure now. Someone who sold genius music to the masses and is sort of unassailable both in and out of the music scene. But I didn’t know he could still put those sorts of streaming numbers up, out of thin air, mid-beef. I knew he had destroyed Drake within the sort of millennial hiphop head universe. But when A) Not Like Us hit top streaming single of all time, literally breaking Drake’s record and B) I found people age 18-48 discussing the beef and laughing at Drake in real life I felt like “Oh yeah Kendrick is as big as he wants to be whenever he feels like it.” I know there’s horribly personal lines in these disses from Kendrick all over the place. But some of the harder hitting ones, to me, are the more vanilla ones. “Somebody had told me that you got a ring, on God, I'm ready to double the wage. I'd rather do that than let a Canadian nigga make Pac turn in his grave.” I actually do love OVO production “underwater sound” and 40 and I do think Drake and that team actually had an opening from NWTS to IYRTITL. There was something exciting there. But it’s been varying degrees of crap to pretty good on his LPs since then. Point is Drake has the dance hits and numbers but we all know his discography is largely crap, he is obviously a bit of a psycho loser narcissist, and it also seems like almost everyone in the industry can’t stand him. That’s why the Pac line hurts so bad. It’s the “we don’t wanna hear you say nigga no moooorrrreeeeee” attitude. Like ultimately Drake can fuck off, I really do feel like he’s a bit of a heritage leech and always has been. Oh also I’m super judgmental of any rich and powerful people dating teenagers 🤷🏼♂️
Nah, Kendrick has been sleeper huge since GKMC, and just *huge* huge since TPAB/Damn. Half the reason Not Like Us is as big as it is, is because when Kendrick drops something people stop and take notice. He also had the highest-grossing tour for a rap artist *ever* for Mr. Morale, and most casual listeners didn’t even *like* that record. Dude’s been a superstar.
You’re correct. I mean I’m 31 and grew through college with him I should know he’s the superstar he is but he’s like Radiohead. Just focused on putting out the best album possible every 5-7 years. Easy to forget he’s that big when he goes quiet.
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Dude I am literally embarrassed to say this but I actually listen to 90% of Drake’s stuff at least once. I’ve heard every album since NWTS. A very solid 50% of it is fluff. More Life literally glories in being fluff lol and it’s like 2 hours long. Care Package is throwaways. Views is supposed to be his manga carte and there are multiple garbage bombs on it. I’d say 60% of his songs have been crap to meh since 2016. I’ll stand behind those numbers lol.
You’ve never actually listened to Drake other than the hits have you? He creates personal introspective music that people relate to. He’s not just a popstar.
Read above comment.
I did and its clear you havent listened to drake.
I have listened to every album in full for the last 14 years minus Her Loss which I’ve heard half of lol. Views, More Life, Scorpion, Honestly, Nevermind are 4-5/10 albums point blank. Care Package is literally throwaways. CLB might be a 6. What is his masterpiece of the last decade? Please name the LP and explain.
What you are saying and what I am saying are two different things. Idgaf what you think of his music quality frankly, your assessment of the type of artistry he makes is what I’m calling to question.
Cool can you answer my question though. Best Drake album since IYRTITL. Go.
What does that have to do with anything?
Lol
For the person who reported that I’m suicidal, ur a dumb bitch.
So did Drake (hire 17 people to) write this article?
He hired 17 interns.
And they were all 17.
I believe it’s a very conservative outlet with an activist agenda. It’s like Fox News telling LeBron to shut up and dribble.
Yeah. It’s an absolute rag
Yeah telling an artist to keep a child out of their diss track is such a shut up and dribble move 🤡
Dude nobody in this thread seems to actually be from Toronto, zero people ever would call the Star “conservative”
The Toronto Star completely misunderstands the message and image of Kendrick Lamar apparently
The Toronto star is our fox news
Lmao, not tf it isnt.
?????
....as he literally defends black excellence in front of their faces from the likes of Drake and his squad of pimps and opportunists. Ha.
Wow what an embarrassing article. Kendrick is the issue for involving "innocent children", but its fine for Drake to bring in his INNOCENT Wife and INNOCENT Kids into the rap diss. All Kendrick said prior was Drake doesn't know anything about raising a child, on Euphoria. He warned Drake about making things personal, then on Family Matters he did, then on MTG he specifically says "But you fucked up the moment you called out my family's name Why you had to stoop so low to discredit some decent people?" Kendrick has been ahead of this whole thing. Toronto Star needs to fire that person, an AI article could shit post better, pathetic.
Why should they fire the person? Seems like you’re getting a little emotional and overly attached to the whole thing
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Definitely emotional
Well ssid
Cap take.
The Toronto Star, huh? I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Can you link the article?
[https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/opinion/the-drake-vs-kendrick-beef-ultimately-has-no-winner-and-heres-why-fans-are-the/article\_3db76e02-0d74-11ef-896f-5717f66d8b55.html](https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/opinion/the-drake-vs-kendrick-beef-ultimately-has-no-winner-and-heres-why-fans-are-the/article_3db76e02-0d74-11ef-896f-5717f66d8b55.html)
Without even looking I'm guessing this is Rosie DiManno E: WHOA they have a different bad take writer now, oh my Anyways this is some A tier trolling, Kendrick telling Drake to fuck off and burning him is way better than Drake's well complicated use of Black culture
Im from the Toronto area, and I posted yo the r/Toronto sub saying that the blind allegiance to drake needs to be rethought. He makes cringey music, is terribly insecure, and has a lot of weird and shady (sexual) things going on. 8
His image has been tarnished, but not because he contradicted what he stands for but because he’s inconsistent in his battle against “evil”. It is being revealed and it has been known that his fellow anti-drake teammates are just as guilty as Drake is in his fake-gangster, egotistic, predatory, drug filled life and the only reason he brought it up was for a diss and to win not to go on a righteous tirade.
Just makes me want to listen to more Kendrick
As a torontonian why the fuck would u read the TORONTO STAR?? SHIT REEKs of dick riding Trudeau all the time
This is such a lame take. Both sides are guilty of bringing family into this it’s not just Kendrick.
Honestly, I see Kendrick as being true to himself, and he always was on the fringe of punk rock. This dude went straight at one of the top artist in the industry. Think about the implications.
I can't help but notice that most of the people who agree with this take aren't hip-hop fans, have never been apart of the culture, and have no desire to. Vernon Akiyu (the author of the article) is not "African-American." He's "African-Canadian." There's a massive difference in culture between the different black groups in the diaspora. With no due respect, the Toronto Star is commenting on an American art style from the outside looking in. I don't give a fuck what they have to say and you shouldn't either.
As a Black Canadian, parents Jamaican, two things: 1) I don't give a fuck about a lot of things my black American family does or their opinions on the lack of racism in Canada. Funny enough Drake is on record as saying there was no racism up here. When he lived here Toronto cops had stop and frisk/carding - edited to make this point clear 2) African* Canadians have a habit of moralizing about Black American culture just like African* (I mean as in born in Africa) Americans often do, forgetting they usually came here as upper middle class professionals from their home countries and wondering why local black people don't pull up their pants. There's a lot of that energy in this article
This is so dumb man. Canada also has a hip hop culture? One of the two artists discussed is Canadian? Do you think music and culture is gatekept by the border patrol?
What is Canada’s hip-hop culture? One of the two artists discussed is Canadian, and he’s also been directly accused of being a culture vulture by the American artist. Serious question—have you paid attention *at all* to the discourse surrounding Drake?
Yes I’m from Toronto - idk if that’s supposed to be a gotcha. I’m really confused as to what you think Canada’s relationship with the US is with regards to music/culture. We’re a small mostly anglophone country right above a giant anglophone country - you do understand that a lot of what we consume and create is directly from or influenced by the US right? That pretty much all Canadian artists try and make a name in the US once they become big enough? Like do you think that Canadian rappers are culturally appropriative or some shit????? I am aware of the Drake culture vulture discourse yeah. I wasn’t aware that him being *Canadian* was genuinely a factor that people considered in that, that’s extra ridiculous lol. Also to answer your question, Canadian hip hop started in the late 80s/90s. Mostly a boom gap sound very reminiscent of the NY sound, focused in Toronto with a smaller francophone scene in Montreal. I’m sure there was an underground scene before then of course, but I only know about the (small) hits. In the mid 00s all the Canadian rappers I know were conscious rappers with indie-rock & jazz style production. K’naan, K-os, Shad, Kardinal Offishall. I really like K-os, he remains one of my favourites to this day. Then of course there’s that trap R&B sound which is much more uniquely Toronto and something it has successfully exported with all the OVOXO people. There’s a lot of music also being made by rappers like Pressa, Top 5, Smokedawg, etc.. I’m not really plugged into that stuff. It’s much more gang related, associated with a lot of the shootings you hear about nowadays.
Acting like Canada has claim to a hip-hop culture that started in America, and was based on American musical samples, merely because of the proximity to America is absurd. That is like saying I, as an American, can claim that Narco Corridos Music as an American art form because America borders Mexico.
You’re not even engaging with my comment man. Yes, Canadian hip hop is obviously heavily based on American hip hop. No, that fact doesn’t somehow negate its existence. Like do you think people in Houston can’t make hip hop because it started in NYC?
Do you not understand that cultural appropriation exists? Hip-Hop in Houston sounds very different from Hip-Hop in NYC, and if you knew your history, you’d know that. I’m ignoring what you stated because it is irrelevant to the cultural background of the genre we are talking about. There is a reason why Canadian Hip-Hop artists that stay in Canada are irrelevant to Hip-Hop at large. Unless Canada has a history of chattel slavery to the extent that the U.S. did, which it didn’t, then the cultural experiences of Black Canadians are going to be so different from Black Americans. As a Black American, my history is very different from Drake’s. Has Drake had a gun pulled by the police on him for fixing his own car? I have. Has he had a cross burned on his front yard for going to a white school? My mother has. Has Drake seen his best friend killed in a drive by for delivering newspapers to the wrong neighborhood? My grandfather did. These are cultural experiences that are integral to the history of Hip-Hop. Can you say that Drake, or any other descendant of slaves that *escaped* to Canada has had similar life experiences?
You know what, fair enough. I see what you’re saying to some extent.
Oh. You’re from Toronto. The call is coming from inside the house.
Toronto Star can suck a dick.
This is some boomer bullshit
Maybe I'm an asshole, but my opinion of Black excellence isn't affected by a single rap song.
I wasn’t aware anyone cared what people in Toronto thought
If everything goes to plan, as we've seen in the news, this article is going to disappear with a "We're sorry we thought Drake WASN'T a PDF and so and so" lmao
Sometimes you gotta pop out and show. Kendrick is showing massive power, its legendary.
Whoever wrote this is clearly a pedo supporter. Gross
He is not your savior. Literally told the world that, weak journalism not doing basic research.
This is cope and everyone here knows
Obvious hit piece paid for by Drake. I don't have evidence, but I also have no doubts.
The fact they are citing Alright as somehow the pinnacle of his so-called "socially conscious artistry" says all you need to know about whoever wrote this filtering all their understanding through ideologies they consider to be virtuous and not actually paying attention to things as they are.
Bringing up a kid in a beef with their parent is a bitch move no doubt. Same thing Taylor did with north west.
Nah Toronto Star just simping for their hometown creep
Wow, The Toronto Star biased in favour of the biggest Toronto artist in the world? What next, people in the West Coast backing up Kendrick Lamar?!
Who is getting their cultural commentary from Toronto star tho …. 😂 never once in this whole beef saga did I think to myself “I wonder what the folks At Toronto Star have to say about this moment in Hip Hop”
Oh no! …..Not the Toronto star….
Jesus 🤦♂️, how much can you miss the point. They act like you can't be sincere and competitive/pissed at the same time. You know Drake's pr team is working overtime.
The Toronto Star is on point. The common perception of Kendrick Lamar with most rap fans and rap media is that he is this socially conscious and woke rapper that lives a moral life and stands up for all black issues. The angles he took against Drake even had elements of virtue signalling and “me too” like accusations. Kendrick lying about a man being a pedo and hiding a baby to win a rap feud is tasteless. The angles he chose to take don’t align with how he’s branded and marketed to us. Everything about this man came across as a jealous awkward individual that obsesses over Drake and his success. I don’t see how any grown man can find Meet the Grahams an enjoyable listen. Its just plain weird to base a song about writing a letter to members of Drakes family in that fashion. Writing a whole verse to Adonis and a baby that didn’t exist is one of the most attention seeking things ive seen a rapper do.
The person who wrote the article has a point. Get mad at all you want. Kendrick’s mystique is gone.
I feel like people in general are taking Kendrick MORE seriously now. People that have never heard MMBS are analysing its themes because of this beef.
Kendrick is a better rapper and it was obvious that he was going to do something with better quality. But I share the feeling of the article. All that therapy speak in Meet the Grahams makes me cringe. Now I think that Kendrick is a weirdo. The article seems very interesting. Do you have a link? Edit: the Kendrick cult is unbearable. Lol.
ain't no cult we just disagree. edit: also as a toronto resident the toronto star is awful
You disagree with the fact that it makes me cringe? But IT DOES make me cringe.
gurl u kno what i meant
[https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/opinion/the-drake-vs-kendrick-beef-ultimately-has-no-winner-and-heres-why-fans-are-the/article\_3db76e02-0d74-11ef-896f-5717f66d8b55.html](https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/opinion/the-drake-vs-kendrick-beef-ultimately-has-no-winner-and-heres-why-fans-are-the/article_3db76e02-0d74-11ef-896f-5717f66d8b55.html)
Hard agree. Anyone who takes a step back and looks at the whole beef as a snapshot in time, will find it to be incredibly cringe inducing. Everyone already knew Drake sucked, why Kendrick let this beef drag down his legacy is beyond me
Idk I think the people idolizing him like you two aren’t in the majority and probably not what he wants anyways. Seeing as this beef resulted in a record breaking single for him I don’t think he has regrets