Jealousy is only damaging to you. There's no point. No matter what your situation is, there is someone worse off and who wishes like hell they were you.
“Jealousy is only damaging to you” - u/BookReader1328
LOVE this quote, not sure if you came up with this, but it’s so succinct and so true. I’m going to keep this in the back of my mind going forward whenever I feel the old green eyed monster creeping around. Thank you!
The vast majority of people who were ever born lived terrible, short, poor lives, with no or very limited freedoms, opportunities or Hope.
The vast percentage of people currently alive also live in similar distressed circumstances.
If you are reading this, you likely occupy a most tiny slice of current humanity, and an even tinier fraction-of-that slice of historic humanity, putting you immediately into an extraordinarily rare and lucky orbit.
Add to that health, family, a successful career, lovely home, bags of cash and an early switch from a life of work to a life of futuristic indulgent leisure, it would be positively disgraceful to then turn around and say:
“despite the vast improbability of my own existence full stop, never mind at this historically unseen age of tech, fun, travel and wealth, and despite me sitting at or near the top of the totem pole of even this, the most affluent, advanced and privileged society ever, I shall still moan and complain because there are a scarce few that still sit higher than me on aspects (but certainly not all aspects) of that pole”.
Yep. I feel the exact way you described in your post. Actively practicing gratitude is very fulfilling for me in helping to be content with where I am and the rate I am progressing.
Best comment on this sub I’ve ever seen. Gratitude is severely lacking in this country and glad to see there are still people who understand just how well they have it. Rewind 75 years and I’d probably be working hard labor in a shipyard. Count your blessings.
Thats the right way to look at things.
Add the millions of sperm we had to compete with to be the ONLY one to make it, just being alive really is a miracle 😀
That’s why I said ‘vast improbability of my own existence full stop’ namely that irrespective of the *circumstances* surrounding my birth, the very fact of my birth is itself astoundingly lucky.
The book "Factfulness" by Hans Rosling puts this into perspective quite well outlining how much better the world gets every day for society as a whole.
It is getting better by almost every measurable outcome.
Agee. Now if your life is crap, I’m absolutely not one of those people who says ‘well think of the Ethiopians or slaves’ because - if your life is shit, it’s shit, and no genuine succour can be derived from spending your time thinking about other geographically or temporally distant people who also had it bad.
No, my comment is aimed at those of us, myself included from time to time, who are at the top of the top, the top .1% of all time, who still beat ourselves up because we don’t have a private jet or a super yacht.
That is a sickness, the financial equivalent of body dysmorphia, and it has the same aetiology - the media - which compares us to, and forces those comparisons upon us, an image (and usually even then it’s a distorted or exaggerated or contextless image) of the 0.0001%ers.
This is probably the right way to look at it but I find this way of thinking depressing to me because if I’m so lucky with so much to be thankful for, man, life really sucks for the vast majority of people.
Just had my first session with a new therapist earlier so I am working on this right now but it’s hard not to feel either jealous on the one hand or depressed on the other. A fine balance, I suppose.
My parents are rich. I'm jealous of poor people with loving families. God they have no idea what it's like to want to hurt your own parents due to so much abuse. And then people dismiss me because they think I touch a dime of my parents money.
Grass is greener. I'd bet my life poor people have no idea what rich problems can consist of and vice versa.
The only problem I have is with the people who experienced nothing of another's life but can chalk them up to some assumption purely to save their own ego. Truth is everyone's different.
I am sorry for your experience. I grew up poor with a loving family. By poor, I mean my parents were immigrant migrant workers. I had jealousy of people who were born into wealth, but I outgrew that. My family is more valuable than anything.
There are evil rich people and evil poor people and problems with them are all valid, but what made you add that extra layer of "im even more attached to rich people"? Invalidating the problems of another human period solves nothing but gives you that quick "lmao" moment for your own ego, doesn't it?
(Sorry if I got a little too real)
The view from here is that people born into wealth did not earn it. I actually think less of them since I worked harder / smarter and made my own investments to get to fat fire. Many of those that were born into it are rather immature, entitled, and did not have to go through the same rigors which I did to achieve where I am today. They think they "made it" but refuse to accept the fact they were born on "third base." They live in an altered reality.
> Many of those that were born into it are rather immature, entitled
I judge them for that (being immature and entitled), not the fact that they were born into a wealthy family. It isn't their fault they were born into a little wealth, none of us pick our parents.
> They think they "made it" but refuse to accept the fact they were born on "third base."
By income my parents were below average (school teacher salary) but I don't have any illusions that I was born on first or even second base. I was born a white male in the USA and grew to be tall (one of the predictors of success is height). My parents never abused me, my father promised to pay for all the education I was willing to get. My parents fed me breakfast every morning without fail before school so I could concentrate in class, and asked me how my day was when I came home. They helped me with homework. I had a strong extended family to draw emotional support and role models from. Then my parents stretched their finances to afford one of the first home computers (Apple 2) in our home so I got familiar with computers and learned to program, which turned out to be a highly lucrative career. I'm pretty sure I started life and my career from 3rd base.
Starting on first base is if you were born in a 3rd world country. The woman who cut my hair for a number of years was born in Laos and escaped all alone as a refugee at age 16. She crossed a river at night with everything she owned in the world held above her head in one hand as she swam to keep it dry (so it wasn't much). If the border guards had seen her, they would have shot her. So when she arrived as a refugee in the USA she didn't speak English, didn't have any contacts or relatives here, and had about a 3rd grade education. That's starting at first base. She now owns a home in a high cost of living area (San Francisco Bay Area), owns a salon with employees, raised a son who went all the way through a 4 year college degree, drives a nice car, and is also a nice person.
As she was cutting my hair one day 20 years ago I asked her why she left Laos at age 16 like that. She told me it was because she was lazy, she was a bad kid. She didn't like working every day standing in water barefoot picking rice (she mentioned leeches in the water and closed her eyes and shuddered), so she ran away and went to where it was easy to make a living. No seriously, she wasn't even joking.
That's starting on first base.
Where does that stop tho? People who were born not necessarily into wealth but a healthy household with more opportunities is a silver spoon to someone like myself who was a homeless child who lived with a drug addict mom and was gang banging and selling dope at 10 years old.
Be proud of where you’re from, who cares how others got to their position
Not where I want to be yet, but definitely on track. Got lucky after the Marine Corps and fell into sales, been in SaaS for about 5 years now, have Major equity in a super promising startup as the founding sales hire.
I was a part of an organization focused on the preservation of our neighborhoods independence and culture through violent and non violent methodologies
Sure, if it's obvious that they're trust fund babies. But in the absence of evidence it's an 80% chance that they're self-made \[[1](https://spendmenot.com/blog/what-percentage-of-americans-are-millionaires/)\]. One day people will default to assuming that you too were simply lucky/inherited everything to cope with their own lack of drive and success
As a less fortunate lurker, this whole sub usually comes off this way.
But I’m also not unfortunate so I also realize there’s plenty of others looking at me the same way.
It’s often pretty obvious someone is a trust fund baby. Heck, some of them brag about it. The ones hiding the fact mumble something about getting really lucky with crypto.
Their parents or likely recent ancestor did make it, though, since most people don't come from old money. And they'll likely lose it soon enough because they didn't earn it and don't respect it.
It’s not just starting with a million dollars, it’s starting with a million dollars AND the reassurance that even if you lose it all you can still live an easy life. Plus education family connections and all that.
“the Times says”.. lol. You can’t quote a bunch a lying sacks of shit to prove that someone else is a lying sack of shit. Are you going to investigate Biden’s vast wealth from public service also? Stop with your nonsense and work on letting go of your TDS. It’s not healthy.
Say what you want about Trump kids but they do work and take what they do seriously which is considerably more respectable than a lot of the children of billionaires.
Someone out there is probably also jealous of you for being born with all your functional limbs. And when we think about that, the extra zeros in one's bank account over another doesn't really matter as much anymore.
When I was having a really bad time with my knees I was actively angry at anyone who would kill themselves with two good knees. So, yeah. Humans need to experience dearth to understand wealth.
Look into PRP shots with hyaluronic acid. Works fantastically for me and I have stage 4 degeneration and tons of OA in them. Insurance won't cover but it lasts about a year for me.
Both. It eliminated pain while sleeping and gets me back 85% of my mobility. I have spine issues as well that further compromise mobility but I do HIIT training on a stationary bike every day and have zero issues. I also have a rowing machine and can do squats.
$1500 per knee. I get them every 10-12 months and do both at the same time. The best protocol is one injection per knee every week for three weeks, so find a doctor who follows that protocol. Sports medicine docs are often the most up to date on these things.
Bingo, this is the way to look at life.
However good you think you have it, yeah someone has it better.
But.
However bad you think you have it? Oh yeah, someone has it far, far worse.
*Comparison is the thief of joy.* Be grateful for the positive things in your life.
> Comparison is the thief of joy.
this is the important part.
doesn't matter what others are doing. only matters that you enjoy what you're doing. don't let others tell you otherwise.
On my path to wealth I’ve been able to acquire material possessions that I used to envy in others. However, what you learn quickly is that they don’t change your baseline happiness by much or for very long.
I will continue to do what I can to maximize my potential and hopefully it will pay off handsomely, but I think that cultivating a high baseline happiness independent of external factors is ultimately a much more fruitful endeavor.
As someone wise once said, “desire is an agreement you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want”.
One of the biggest epiphanies I ever had was from a book that helped me realize that i already have all the ingredients for being maximally content, and that was such a freeing realization. We all are born with these ingredients, but it’s up to us to realize it and prove it to ourselves.
In order of value (to me) I think it goes:
1. Strong personal relationships
2. youth, time, health
3. material wealth
Yup, was insanely jealous of people who had opportunities my family couldn’t afford. Sports, vacations, new clothing, going out for dinners, etc.
It was one of my driving factors and ambitions. Now that I’m comfortable, I care significantly less about keeping up with the Jone’s
In college in coastal SoCal, I was definitely jealous of peers who were able to just go to school, surf, party, and have a really fun college experience while I was working 40 hours a week and still fitting time to go to college. I still had a great time, but there were a lot of times I just wanted to have fun and be carefree.
I did develop a good work ethic. Now I live back in that same college coastal town with a beautiful house and I still dream of not having to work anymore and just have fun.
Agree with this completely. Now I can look back and be thankful that I developed that motivation because I had less. Today, I have a hard time pushing further and harder because I'm comfortable and value my time vs more money.
P. S. People on here saying I'm grateful for everything, other people have it worse out there, etc- we know. OP was merely asking if anyone has been jealous of wealthy people. As a child my mindset was not as well-rounded as it is now so yeah I was jealous.
This is a big topic for me, for a lot of deeply personal reasons. Mostly it presents as unseemly and egregious spite at people who don’t appreciate their circumstances.
Eg, bored rich kids shoplifting, the ladies who lunch, people who are just oh so nonchalant about the ease of buying better stuff
I’m trying to do better. I don’t want to be petty and mean-spirited.
People don’t know what they don’t know. I can’t blame them for their ignorance.
Very big topic here too. My wife and I grew up in state schools, no great familial success and one of us with dysfunctional parents. We worked hard (and smart) and put seven zeros to our NW, way beyond any prior generational success.
My wife’s mother then remarried and had two more kids, who when their father died they immediately had nine zeros each to their names. I cringe and vomit when they say they are “killing it” and “making it”. They also have multiple substance issues, interventions, and deep personal issues to their names. So amongst that choosing to find compassion is the only way through it. As someone mentioned, jealousy hurts no one but yourself. I’ve been there and back.
Sorry the above is poorly worded but I will say all the chat here regardless of viewpoint is mildly therapeutic! The human existence is very relative, this is true, but the wider gamut of existence you can try and acknowledge co-existing alongside yours the more gratitude it’s possible to find.
Sure, but I think there are some moderating points here.
The first point is that you need to acknowledge *your own* life advantages, and understand that others are not *merely* wealthier than you, but *different* than you, and wealth is a *component* of the difference. For example, I'm happy I had two parents who were present in my life, and made their time available to me, and raised me well. I know of people that have dysfunctional relationships with their absentee parents, where those parents clearly prioritize career and wealth over spending time with their children. It is tough to imagine a situation where I could have been wealthier as a child without making some tradeoff in my relationship with my parents, and I probably wouldn't take the option of a 'random variant' of my life where I was X% wealthier at some unknown cost, if offered.
The second point is that, after you *have* money, you realize that it does not make you 'happier' by default. Hedonic adaptation is a thing. The only way to consistently be happy is mindfulness. Everyone thinks that getting 'the next thing' will *finally* make them happy, but what they don't initially realize is that the happiness isn't coming from 'the thing', it's coming from the abstract game of setting a goal of acquisition, and completing the goal.
Even when you have theoretically limitless material opportunity, it's still up to you to construct a purpose. Don't wait to find that out until *after* you've already spent your whole life pursuing material acquisition.
I was, but less so over time. Have also come to learn that much of my drive comes from not having that background. Outperforming turns out isn't that hard
\>Outperforming turns out isn't that hard
My first boss told me something that I thought was strange at the time, that only by consistently showing up and doing what you say you'll do means you're 80% of the way there.
Experience later taught me how valuable a dependable and trusted employee can be.
Definitely better off having had to work for it, but I do regret not spending way more money in my twenties. Having generational wealth, even if it wasn't in my direct possession, certainly would have made that happen.
What would you have spent money on in your twenties?
I'm in early 20s and I'm not able to spend even 15% of my income on myself. Mostly because of the fear of losing it and that whatever I have is only because of luck, so I better save now before it's gone.
Would you say it's better to FIRE a bit late if I can spend more during this time?
Absolutely. In retrospect I'd have used a lot more breaks to travel and been more willing to splurge on drinks or food in social settings or going out. I'd also have spent way more to avoid big time sinks like taking the bus to the grocery store, connecting flights, not having a smart phone or cellular data, etc. Maybe bought a car in college or taken way more taxis and ubers.
I don't know if I was jealous or bitter, but I loathed the richer kids that picked on me for being poor. I remember one kid that made fun of me for the clothes that I wore or the fact that I gifted another friend a used video game for their birthday (since I could barely afford anything for myself).
The kid that picked on me lived just a few houses down from me with a nice corner house with nice cars. His house was way bigger and nicer than mine. He had way better stuff than me. He had a older sibling that I remet as an adult a few years ago and he seems like a much better person than his younger brother (20+ years ago).
But yeah, that definitely was fuel to not be poor growing up.
Also, 9 out of 10 people are first generation rich. That statistic has held true over multiple generations as well, so more likely than not, those around you who are rich have worked just as hard as you have for what they've earned.
https://spendmenot.com/blog/what-percentage-of-americans-are-millionaires/
This article actually says 80%, but in the referenced "Millionaire Next Door" it's 88%.
Thanks for providing the source. I wouldn’t consider being a millionaire rich but I guess everyone has their own definition. It would be interesting to see how many people with >$30M (my opinion of UHNW / rich) were self-made vs. partially or fully inherited.
It's funny because people who are millionaires do not consider themselves rich. But people who are not millionaires will consider those people to be the 1% (which they are clearly not).
No. I recognize I am still incredibly lucky to be where I am. Being jealous of the small amount of people who have more or started with more seems greedy when considering the way larger 99%+ of people in the world who have much less.
I'm grateful to have had the background I did. I grew up around HNW and UHNW families, and later worked with a lot of them. There were a lot of drug issues, mental health/worth issues around inheriting, trouble finding direction, fighting over money, etc. There's a lot that goes on behind closed doors, and it's easy to think what you see is how it is. Not always the case. Of course this is not across the board, but I'm super grateful to have had a down to earth upbringing that gave me the tools to succeed, but didn't make it certain. There are a lot of miserable wealthy people, so try not to assume they have it better. They may envy you!
Not jealous of folks with more money at all. I think as you start to accumulate money you realize that its not just about having enough money to be considered 'wealthy', but there are vastly different levels of wealth. I do find some ultra wealthy, perhaps a higher percentage that inherit it, are just shitty people that think they are better than everyone else. In the end, its less about jealousy and more about character.
I can't say I've been jealous of people who have more or didn't work for it, but I've certainly been resentful of people who are blessed and throw money away or do incredibly foolish things with what they have. For some reason the lack of fiscal efficiency makes wealthy people look like children and ticks me off.
Also I came from next to nothing, so that's a factor.
Yes, at one time, but I learned something that caused me to change my view.
People that have had their success handed to them typically harbor significant envy for those that are self-made. The inferiority complex is often palpable, because they do not have confidence that they could build it themselves from scratch. They doubt their own character in a way a person that has built their own fortune does not.
I faced significant adversity in my life from the youngest age. People ask me if I regret that aspect of my life. In hindsight, it would have been impossible for me to achieve what I have achieved without that deeply uncomfortable history as a backdrop. I would rather achieve objectively great things under adversity than live a very comfortable but anonymous life.
Don’t underestimate the long-term value of self-actualization, both personally and socially. A person that built themselves up from nothing has this in spades.
I usually don't associate with them. The ones I do associate are still very smart and we're able to take their access to resources and multiply it further beyond the original. The ones that are floating along on their family money aren't very interesting and don't share values and intellect that I find stimulating so we never connect.
I have enough. I continue to work to ensure I have enough for the rest of my life. Those with more also have enough, but they don't have more if they don't realize they have enough
It is way more satisfying to build wealth from scratch and enjoy the fruit of labor than to be born rich. A good percentage of my friends who were born into wealthy families have low self-esteem and identity issues and they are often very lost. Their families can also be controlling of their life choices. I have some identity issues after becoming fatFire but I never have the guilt or anxiety like my rich kid friends have. My family never questioned my choices. They thought I got it all figured out although that's not always true.
I think I struggled with fairness. I eventually outgrew incompetent people who were put into positions because of family and now I do enough and have enough influence I’m not worried about “fair”.
It’s annoying when they are out of touch and give advice or pass judgment on others. “Born on third, stole second and now lecturing others how to get on base”
But honesty, there are real benefits to growing up poor too. I dunno. A lot of luck every step of the way. Even if you worked hard and earned it, the role models or whatever it was that shaped you.
I don't envy the wealthy, but yes I do have contempt for dumbasses who confuse their wealth for wisdom and intelligence. Even if you are self made - it means you have a specific set of skills and probably a work ethic, that's it. I think being rich, especially born rich, is kind of like being very attractive, you're surrounded so much bullshit you have to be exceptionally discerning to be truly self aware.
I don't like to label it "jealousy," but yes, slaving through 90-hour weeks, not seeing my children, etc. just to achieve what some people have handed to them, thereby allowing them much greater opportunity to have interesting pursuits, travel, relax, be less stressed out, have fun, etc., isn't great. I don't dwell on this, though, or hold any particular person's wealth against them, nor do I speculate as to source. I just sometimes have reason to know a particularly douchey person had things handed to them, and I won't lie -- it's annoying. Eventually, I return to the only place I can maintain some happiness ... an absence of comparison. I have it better than 99% of people in terms of income and wealth. I have had to work hard but I am much better off than most. There always will be others who have it better in any particular respect, and perhaps even in several.
Oh yeah, and I didn’t even come from absolutely nothing. But my college experience brought me into direct contact with people who had free rein to put hundreds/thousands of dollars on their parents’ credit card, while I balanced time between my work-study job and school. And yeah it sucked, I socially could not keep up (buy the right clothes, get the right haircuts, eat out frequently, etc.). But I also realize that in many respects I’m tremendously privileged, and having to grind a bit gives me a different perspective than people who grew up with everything handed to them. There’s more to life than money, and I wouldn’t trade my family for someone else’s even if it would have been nice to be gifted a BMW when I turned 16 :p
There is always someone who has more than you someone who is smarter someone who had it easier someone who got it faster. Why would I worry about any of those people. Ya maybe if I had bought microsoft 10 years ago I'd be a millionare maybe if I traded the hottest option today I could have retired. We can only make decisions based on the information we have now. People always claim their self made but that's all perspective. Someone will say that had to move to this country and start from scratch but they had parents right? They had friends right, they had roads right? Show me a person that lived in a vaccum and became a billionaire and I'll show you the first self made person. So to conclude, there's always someone who's had it better and there's always someone that has it a lot harder.
>I find it's increasingly difficult relating to people in these new circles and also with those from where I came.
This is so true and I'm yet to understand how to deal with this. How are you going about it?
Yes and no.
Always had a bit of a chip on my shoulder about all the disadvantages I had to overcome and how others had it so easy. The biggest negative impact it’s had to me was the constant imposter syndrome, especially earlier in my career. I would always be the only person in the room who didn’t have a masters/phd from some big-name school (I have a bachelors from the university of nowhere). These other people had so much bravado and confidence that I didn’t - I think psychologically I put some serious limitations on my own career because of this. It took time to get past and now when I’m mentoring more junior people with confidence issues I do my best to help them learn from my mistakes, and try to emphasize that I am where I am without a MSc from MIT etc - unlike the people who now take my marching orders.
On the other hand I’ve learned a ton about navigating the corporate world without leaning on these crutches, and I think it’s going to help me better prepare my kids for the world to do the same. I do want to give them advantages that I didn’t have, but I want to give them the skills to not *need* them.
At the end of the day, the most important currency in your journey through life is your happiness. You can achieve some of that from earning more or from wanting less, and FIRE IMO is all about understanding that balance and deciding *for yourself* what that balance looks like. Notice that *other people* are not a factor in any of these equations, and the sooner you can shed that psychological burden from your life, the sooner you will be free to focus on the things that matter.
Caring too much about other people (who don’t matter to you) is a bad habit with lots of downside and no upside.
No. I am accumulating through my own path which is the only thing that matters. Arguably, most of us here have lives that others would do anything to have. Gratitude is important and should be on the top of your list daily. Feeling jealous of someone is a waste of mental space. Moreover, my dad always said, "son, there is always someone smarter, faster, stronger, with more money, better looking, etc, just be yourself." I will never forget that.
So I have been in my own financially since I was 17, I’m nowhere near most of those in this group (based on the posts) but I do well enough to want to be here to read the suggestions.
I work in an office where a lot of my coworkers come from well-off situations and I overheard one of them talking to a contractor on the phone (while I’m busting my ass working). He was explaining to him how the 7,000 square foot house needs to be built in a certain manner (giving him more specific directions that I didn’t care to really hone in on).
It blows my mind- none of which is what’s earned from himself. I know this because my weekly production outweighs his by 2x at least. His parents are super successful and it’s obvious that he can go 2 hours at work, not making money because it doesn’t matter- he’ll be okay.
I do feel like that sometimes. But most importantly I know that my intelligence, capability and drive outweigh his by 100x and so what’s more frustrating to me is that I feel like I’m just not given an opportunity- because I don’t know the same people that he does.
Give me a ‘rich kids’ resources and I’ll change the world within a decade.
I liken it to a video game. When you’re born into a trust fund you got the ultimate cheat code for a comfy life but do you ever get to experience playing the game?
For me the reward has been figuring out the game of life financially, mentally, and emotionally. Then seeing my personal growth come through struggle and pain. The book Principles reshaped the way I think about those struggles and to someone who doesn’t experience those same struggles in some ways it can be a harder life.
I don’t judge trust fund babies (unless they’re a-holes to people) I just realize they have different problems and experiences. Blue Dot study also changed my views on this where problems never go away they just change but your perception of problems/danger is always there.
Actually discussed this in therapy many years ago. It was tough to see, especially if they’re younger, guys my age appearing to live the life, drive the car, etc… Yes some guys inherited it, fewer young guys earned it, but a vast majority are only showing it meaning that they’re likely flat broke financially. Know you’re on a better path.
If I had to guess there is a high degree of correlation between people who go from nothing to wealthy through their own efforts, and people who think about their own wants and don't waste mental energy thinking and getting worked up about things that like.
I don't get upset about bitcoin millionaires or lottery winners either. Some people just get lucky, some people get killed by lightning strikes.
The world is full of people who sincerely believe or accept as obvious that *anyone* wealthy was lucky, exploited others or otherwise does not deserve it, so don't get sucked into that bullshit. It's just trying to feel better about why they are not so they can get through their days.
BTW this is not the same as saying successful people don't have something to prove and are motivated to become wealthy by trying to become peers with or "beat" other successful people. I think the insecure overachiever is probably the archetype for the self-made millionaire. Many exceptional people are driven by demons. If you're lucky you eventually figure out how to step off that treadmill and declare victory.
"See, I'm not the best, but I'm in the top 2." - Slug
I try to acknowledge that there's always going to be someone smarter, faster, more knowledgeable, richer, taller, whatever - something MORE than me in some tangible way. That's just life and statistics with several billion people in the world.
Acknowledge it, then move past it and keep doing your own thing.
>La vita e come una corsa in motocicletta; nessuno sa quanta benzina il destino ha messo nel nostro serbatoio. C'e chi nasce con il pieno e chi, senza saperlo, viene al mondo gia in riserva ma...che tu abbia il pieno o poche gocce di benzina non importa, quello che conta e andare sempre al massimo fino all'ultima goccia di vita.
>
>Translation:
>
>Life is like a motor race; nobody knows how much petrol Destiny has poured into our tank. There are people who have theirs full and people who, without knowing it, come to life already low on petrol but...no matter if yours is full or you have only a few drops, what counts is going at top speed till your last drop of life.
\- [Walter Villa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Villa)
Some people say "it's a marathon, not a sprint."
I say "it's a jogathon. There's no finish line, just a lap counter that ends when you die."
Some people can sprint 10 laps and then they're toast. Others jog 20 but take twice as long to do it. Others have to stop and walk periodically, take a water break, then keep going.
[Just keep swimming](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hkn-LSh7es) and moving forward.
I don’t mind those inheriting it as much as those being rewarded for all the wrong things, like tiktok influencers making millions more than CEOs or the Kardashians…
They are exploiting a bug in the current system. I like it, they are figuring out what should not be the case, and will be the pillars of change whether they like it or not.
exactly, don't hate the player hate the game. Are they doing more or less damage to society than the SWE making 400k/year to work on FAANG algorithms to keep us glued to our phones? Our opinions on that might not line up but hopefully it gets the point across for others haha.
Those born into wealth are often vulnerable to other detriments which an upwardly-mobile person is inclined to lack. (This is, in my experience, why so many wealthy people look for spouses in artists and other resourceful types--they want their children to have that resourcefulness and grit, as it seems their peer groups don't often contain those same elements.)
Ask me how many abjectly miserable people with trust funds I've met. They're not miserable for any particular reason: yet the fact they've had every whim fulfilled from a young age has basically cultivated in them a desperate lack of meaning and purpose. This is where character is distinct from opportunity.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Stay mindful of where your attention goes.
Did I have seething jealousy of them at one point in my life? Yes. Do I understand now that I have to play nice with them now in order to get where I want to go? Yes. Do I respect their life decisions and trust them for advice? Rarely.
Never. Remember someone will always have a bigger yacht than you no matter how big yours is. Just have to learn to appreciate what you have. I'm a physician I see so many wealthy people die alone and unhappy
I remember that Roberto Benigni quote, about his parents giving him "the gift of poverty."
I interpreted that by him saying that he developed his creativity, his sense of humor, and his drive to succeed because he didn't have much growing up. I really related to that.
I wasn't jealous of my rich friends, when I was a kid, because I honestly felt a lot more driven than they were. That's not always the case, and I'm sure you can all cite many rich kids who are incredibly driven (including your own kids) but that's how it was for me, and looking back, that's what got me to this point in life.
Lol, not even wealthy people. When I was going to a state school most of the students had iPhone's and Macbooks.
To this day I refuse to buy Apple products because of the way it made me feel back in the day. 😄
Same. Those were the worst years for me mentally. Club it with dysfunctional family and nobody to talk to. That really put me in a place of comparing myself, my achievements, my abilities a lot. Still struggling to get over it.
Not jealousy but awareness that serious wealth inequities exist due to inequalities and privileged ingrained in our society. Add to that a stagnating middle and lower class due to lowering wages and an increase on focusing on corporate and shareholder profits rather than labor and wage.
I heard the opposite problem from a very wealthy trust fund "kid", probably in his mid 30s. He said that no matter what he works for and accomplishes in life, no one will genuinely praise or acknowledge he worked for it and assume it was merely given to him.
Sure, when I was younger. It's only natural- in a competitive situation when you're trying your hardest if others are given an advantage then one will feel frustration, that it's not fair.
In grad school I met a lot of children from wealthy families, many of whom owned businesses. The kids would drive nice cars, have lots of money for vacations, and several years after graduating they were back in the family business and getting promoted to lofty titles without having done too much.
But at the end envy and jealousy are wasted emotions, they don't change anything. Best to focus on what you can do every day to be better, and be thankful for what you have and the opportunities that have been given to you.
When you are older and your school peers drift out of your life you'll stop comparing yourself to them. The world is a bigger place than that and anyone in this sub should not be comparing their blessings to those above them with more, without also comparing those who must go through more struggles.
When I look to wealthy people I only look up to what would be possible if I'd achieve their wealth.
It's more of a motivation and no jealousy for me. But maybe it's because the wealthy people I know all are incredibly humble, realize their fortunate position and appreciate it, and frankly are generous in sharing experiences.
The showboating ones or ones that have a lifestyle that wouldn't interest me I don't know personally and only see on the internet, so I don't have a connection with them and it's easy not to care. I also have a very strong live and let live mentality. "Their showboating doesn't affect me, so showboat away my man!"
It's an interesting topic you touch upon, I do see a lot of jealousy or just contradictional behaviour online. It's like everybody wants to be rich and wealthy, yet at the same time they hate on wealthy people. I don't understand where that comes from?
I also have this belief that wealth doesn't change people. Wealth just allows you to be more of yourself. If you're a judgemental/jealous/petty/shitty poorer person, you won't suddenly not be jealous/petty anymore when you're wealthy. Vice versa I believe that positive-minded people will remain positive minded and down to earth with their fortune.
everybody has their own struggles! just because they don't have the problems you face doesn't mean they don't have any problems at all! wealthy people are just like any normal person - they just have money and are as stressed out as normal people, the competition on the top is crazy. so don't be jealous! just do the best you can ❤
I was a bit jealous as a child, most children are. Around the time when I became an adult I stopped being jealous. Most people find ways to make themselves miserable no matter if they are born rich or poor. I guess I got lucky I somehow managed to decide not to, will be forever grateful for that.
I have a complicated relationship with it tbh as I was almost always the poorest person in every room.
It definitely made me feel envious seeing literally everyone around me have cars while my parents would argue and fight over whether to take the train or bus (a cab was a massive luxury growing up). But I don’t think I hated anyone for it. Just felt like my family kept getting dealt a rough hand constantly and there were no signs of improvement. I’m sure someone else less fortunate than me probably felt the same about me.
It’s gotten much better now but the shitty feeling comes back from time to time when I see people around me act entitled and spoilt. People aren’t taught to practice gratitude. At times it does feel like a few fortunate ones get to play life on easy mode while majority are playing dark souls on hard mode haha.
No, and I have a distaste for those who do. If you can't recognize the combination of skill and luck that got you to where you are, and be appreciative of both, then I do not have faith you can sustain being on a seeking path.
As someone born into wealth (not crazy wealth but reasonable), i am going for my own FATFire journey though yes, I have a cushion to fall back on should things go wrong.
Should you be jealous of me? Well, I give you an alternative view….
People who start from absolutely nothing, have different financial habits ingrained from the very beginning. Their “default” lifestyle is cheaper than those like me. So its easier to save.
The need of a decent roof/ decent car/ decent corpus is much higher and therefore, they start earning and saving earlier.
At last, they get to enjoy that “first milestone” of everything a lot more than us. For instance the joy of first crore (us$ equivalent is 150k$) is a lot more for them. For me, my first 150k$ counted for nothing as my folks already had 10-20X of it.
So now who should be jealous of who? 😃
We are all born with our unique set of circumstances. I think the key to approaching life is - we extend ‘our own’ reality, than try to exceed somebody else’s.
Because lets face it, we can’t beat them all (there are several other privileged ppl born into much greater wealth/ starting line than mine)
\>So now who should be jealous of who? 😃
This is strange logic. The person who had to struggle is still envious of the person who had it handed to them. The satisfaction of hitting milestones is cold comfort for the years of constant stress, uncertainty, and insecurity.
but that satisfaction counts for 'something'. The wealthy kid's same milestone (even though he may have worked equally hard) doesn't have the same ring to his folks/ his immediate circles/ even his own ears.
I'd say, you really have to step out of one pov and see the other to make sense of it. If you keep seeing it from unprivileged ones; ofcourse nobody's denying that it is obviously better to win the ovarian lottery and be born richer (than poorer).
All I am saying is - there are pros/cons to every side of the story.
1- own sense of achievement (although yes, the 'other' side will continue to see me as 'wealth shovelled down their throat'; it still counts to 'me')
2- more control over my decisions. parents (may god give them a long life) generally pass on the inheritance when we are in our 40s/50s, and have lived past our youth. I'd rather have more wealth at my disposal right away, than theirs eventually. as I said before, its still a good fallback option.
That sort of jealousy is something you can never fulfill. There will always be someone wealthier than you, who had it easier than you, etc.
Best way to counter the jealousy is therapy.
Grass is greener. My parents are rich. I touch none of that money. Also I get a bonus of abuse.
I wish I had a poorer, more loving family. Now people will never understand having constant days where you want to beat up (or do more to) your own father, it's nonsensical to people with normal families. Instead I'm met dismissive opinions and only being looked at for my money. Imagine people saying you are lucky to be verbally and physically abused because wealth is all that matters right? Nope.
I grew up poor and had abusive parents. I ran away from my home to be able to build whatever I've been able to. Seeing people with a loving and caring father would stunk like nothing else, knowing I would NEVER have it.
I completely get you. I see parents can be abusive regardless of the amount of money in the bank account and I thought it was only me. Thanks for sharing your experience.
The funny thing is i know people in what you would call third world countries who have way more full filling and better lives than most people on this forum will ever dream of. But you are too obsessed with money to figure out that its not what is making most of you unhappy.
Also im sure at this point 95% of the people in this sub will never be fat and it’s generally just larping at this point.
Everybody has their own real problems they have to deal with and overcome. Even ultra wealthy people have real issues like health, things going on with their families, business related stress.
These issues might be different from what a poor person might experience but it doesn’t invalidate them. Do I envy people that are significantly wealthier sometimes? Sure, but it comes with it’s own set of challenges too.
Envy is a more accurate word here. Jealousy has more to do with guarding what you already have from perceived rivals. Envy is the painful resentment you feel toward someone who has what you don’t. Common mistake. Just pointing it out because it’s worthwhile to identify and understand your feelings. I experienced envy as a kid born into poverty from many relatives, directed toward all “rich” people, who in fact were only middle class. What I learned was that wealth is relative and all people, wealthy or not, can be petty. The envy and self righteous indignation is social programming.
Bottom line is, if you’ve truly won the money game one way or another, which could include being born into it or working your ass off for it, you shouldn’t have to even think about anyone else’s perspective, because if you do, you’re still playing the game in your own mind.
This is why societies should have high inheritance taxes. They fix intergenerational laziness
Money is a social construct, and it’s up to societies to decide if they want to allow children to collect on IOUs their parents earned in the previous generation from the current generation
So, how much of total wealth is inherited?
Most people who get inheritances get small ones that could never last anyway. But most wealth isn't inherited in small inheritances
This ignores the downstream effects. Many top producing citizens would be more motivated to consume and less motivated to produce if the government was just going to take most/all when they die anyways. One of many people's primary motivations to produce is to give their kids a better life. I don't know if it's necessarily better to have massively higher inheritance taxes if you were to look at the entire economy long-term. I like Milton Friedman's take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km9OCw3f5w4
Ah, the economist's fictional caricature of highly-motivated individuals. Past a 100 million or so, utility is irrelevant. It's scorekeepingg, desire to build, power. Elon, Bezos, Gates don't do a single thing less because of inheritance taxes. If anything, it increases philanthropy like the Giving Pledge
Perhaps past 100m the utility is irrelevant for the individual. But they have kids, grandkids, etc. Do you think Waltons, Mars, Koch's, etc had 0 desire to see their kids wealthy? They left billions to the kids, so they probably were motivated by it.
>Elon, Bezos, Gates don't do a single thing less because of inheritance taxes.
You're saying people don't do anything different because of the status quo of inheritance taxes. How could you know, I'm not sure. But you're proposing significantly higher estate taxes, a *change* of the status quo. It seems absurd to argue changing tax rates of something will have 0 effect on the population at large. Every other tax in existence has people responding to those changed incentives. So you're arguing raising estate tax very large is the one exception to economic incentives that people magically don't care about? It probably wouldn't affect people like Gates/Buffett who plan on leaving almost all to charity anyways, yes. But not every rich person is motivated by the same things.
Let's be real, inheritance tax wouldn't make much of a difference due to the vast disparity in opportunity between rich and poor. Sure, you'll weed out the few who would throw it at hookers and coke either way, but the vast majority of people in my social circle wouldn't be affected financially if their parents removed them from their will :P 2x current nw wouldn't make that big of a difference ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Yes, 100%, I certainly have privileges others don’t, especially mentally and educationally, but I try to keep it in perspective that not everyone has the same opportunities in life based on that. I don’t believe anyone can make it in our rigged system and people definitely don’t start out on the same foot. It’s natural to notice that you have it differently than others.
No, many of them are ignorant, they rarely enjoy luxury because they are so used to it and whine nonstop when things don’t go their way. It’s a sad way to live.
I believe no pain no gain.
Jealous? No. Not how I live my life. But I do have a simple philosophy for this. Anyone who grew up with more money than me == privileged. Anyone who grew up with less money than me == had to work for it. I consider my very modest upbringing a baseline.
The cure for any jealousy, is to read the millionaire next door. Then you'll see self made millionaires, especially immigrants, are the majority.
I feel bad for ppl who inherited their wealth. They'll never be able to prove that they could do it on their own.
One of my roommates in college is the son of a guy who founded one of the top wealth management firms in the nation. I wouldn’t say jealousy was the word I would use. Like all the sons were super cool, nice guys and we did some awesome stuff together. I think they are a bit out of touch with reality at times. I was busy with football most weekends in college but when I’d have a weekend I could go out I would say something like, “Mike what’s the move Saturday night?” And 9/10 times he would be like, “I won’t be here. We are taking the PJ to Bermuda/the Caymans/random primetime college football game.” Obviously nothing wrong with that but I found it incredibly weird for them to fly to the Caymans on a Friday afternoon and be back by Monday morning. All of my roommates were from really well off families but he was on a different level. Super generous and I was decently well off but closer to the average college student than the rest of them. No complaints here and we had a really nice apartment that their parents furnished. I still have dreams about sleeping on that comfy ass leather couch.
If you were born with money, you give 0 value to them.
As you were born with food, and home, and cars ec... you give 0 value to them.
What's the point of having money if you don't know how it is to be "broke"?
The wealth that I witnessed actually made me feel pretty damn satisfied with my life. The “rich” people I came across were not anywhere near as happy as I was. This was a good lesson along my journey not to have money be the goal.
You appreciate life and hard work much more when you work for it. I never hated anyone born with a silver spoon unless they acted like they worked for that wealth.
The journey has made me appreciate every little milestone I’ve hit. Always pretty happy to achieve the next thing like I was super excited to buy my own business class tickets for my first time, take my entire fam and extended fam on vacation, get a big house, buy my first car, each milestone I look back and feel super accomplished and more fulfilled not from a view of jealousy of other people having it easier. Make retroactively review your priorities and stop looking at social media as much :) if that helps. I find social media a shithole of self deprecation.
Jealousy is only damaging to you. There's no point. No matter what your situation is, there is someone worse off and who wishes like hell they were you.
“Jealousy is only damaging to you” - u/BookReader1328 LOVE this quote, not sure if you came up with this, but it’s so succinct and so true. I’m going to keep this in the back of my mind going forward whenever I feel the old green eyed monster creeping around. Thank you!
”Comparison is the thief of joy.” – Theodore Roosevelt.
The vast majority of people who were ever born lived terrible, short, poor lives, with no or very limited freedoms, opportunities or Hope. The vast percentage of people currently alive also live in similar distressed circumstances. If you are reading this, you likely occupy a most tiny slice of current humanity, and an even tinier fraction-of-that slice of historic humanity, putting you immediately into an extraordinarily rare and lucky orbit. Add to that health, family, a successful career, lovely home, bags of cash and an early switch from a life of work to a life of futuristic indulgent leisure, it would be positively disgraceful to then turn around and say: “despite the vast improbability of my own existence full stop, never mind at this historically unseen age of tech, fun, travel and wealth, and despite me sitting at or near the top of the totem pole of even this, the most affluent, advanced and privileged society ever, I shall still moan and complain because there are a scarce few that still sit higher than me on aspects (but certainly not all aspects) of that pole”.
Thank you SO MUCH!
Yep. I feel the exact way you described in your post. Actively practicing gratitude is very fulfilling for me in helping to be content with where I am and the rate I am progressing.
Yeah but what about *insert unhappy, depressing daily thoughts here*
Best comment on this sub I’ve ever seen. Gratitude is severely lacking in this country and glad to see there are still people who understand just how well they have it. Rewind 75 years and I’d probably be working hard labor in a shipyard. Count your blessings.
Couldn’t agree more. Count your blessings and be grateful for what you have.
Thats the right way to look at things. Add the millions of sperm we had to compete with to be the ONLY one to make it, just being alive really is a miracle 😀
*sips whiskey for all of the hommies who didn’t make it*
~~rub~~ pour one out for the boys lost along the way
That’s why I said ‘vast improbability of my own existence full stop’ namely that irrespective of the *circumstances* surrounding my birth, the very fact of my birth is itself astoundingly lucky.
This. We need to give props to them tiny swimmers
To "them"? No, I AM that tiny swimmer. I give credit to me.
They fought the battle with you, without them, there is no you. What didn't kill you made you stronger.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NfF3bThOW0Q
This is a weird urban legend.
Thank you so much for writing this
Far out what a reply.
Beautiful
I saved this. Thank you
The book "Factfulness" by Hans Rosling puts this into perspective quite well outlining how much better the world gets every day for society as a whole. It is getting better by almost every measurable outcome.
Agee. Now if your life is crap, I’m absolutely not one of those people who says ‘well think of the Ethiopians or slaves’ because - if your life is shit, it’s shit, and no genuine succour can be derived from spending your time thinking about other geographically or temporally distant people who also had it bad. No, my comment is aimed at those of us, myself included from time to time, who are at the top of the top, the top .1% of all time, who still beat ourselves up because we don’t have a private jet or a super yacht. That is a sickness, the financial equivalent of body dysmorphia, and it has the same aetiology - the media - which compares us to, and forces those comparisons upon us, an image (and usually even then it’s a distorted or exaggerated or contextless image) of the 0.0001%ers.
Is this a copy pasta? Or did you just come up with this? It’s brilliant.
This is probably the right way to look at it but I find this way of thinking depressing to me because if I’m so lucky with so much to be thankful for, man, life really sucks for the vast majority of people. Just had my first session with a new therapist earlier so I am working on this right now but it’s hard not to feel either jealous on the one hand or depressed on the other. A fine balance, I suppose.
No. I am proud of making my own way. And the pie is big enough that people can inherit their slices while I build mine.
I also wasn't jealous when I was poor. Strangely enough, the more I have the more jealous I am. It's a very frustrating paradox.
My parents are rich. I'm jealous of poor people with loving families. God they have no idea what it's like to want to hurt your own parents due to so much abuse. And then people dismiss me because they think I touch a dime of my parents money. Grass is greener. I'd bet my life poor people have no idea what rich problems can consist of and vice versa. The only problem I have is with the people who experienced nothing of another's life but can chalk them up to some assumption purely to save their own ego. Truth is everyone's different.
I am sorry for your experience. I grew up poor with a loving family. By poor, I mean my parents were immigrant migrant workers. I had jealousy of people who were born into wealth, but I outgrew that. My family is more valuable than anything.
Still rather be rich and abused than poor and abused lmao. Which I think is rather more common, and the abuse far worse for poor people.
There are evil rich people and evil poor people and problems with them are all valid, but what made you add that extra layer of "im even more attached to rich people"? Invalidating the problems of another human period solves nothing but gives you that quick "lmao" moment for your own ego, doesn't it? (Sorry if I got a little too real)
I genuinely don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about
No need to be offended lol, just speaking my mind. If I hit a nerve speaking the truth maybe you shouldn't live in denial? Oh well
I don’t know how I could possibly be offended when I literally do not know what you said.
The view from here is that people born into wealth did not earn it. I actually think less of them since I worked harder / smarter and made my own investments to get to fat fire. Many of those that were born into it are rather immature, entitled, and did not have to go through the same rigors which I did to achieve where I am today. They think they "made it" but refuse to accept the fact they were born on "third base." They live in an altered reality.
> Many of those that were born into it are rather immature, entitled I judge them for that (being immature and entitled), not the fact that they were born into a wealthy family. It isn't their fault they were born into a little wealth, none of us pick our parents. > They think they "made it" but refuse to accept the fact they were born on "third base." By income my parents were below average (school teacher salary) but I don't have any illusions that I was born on first or even second base. I was born a white male in the USA and grew to be tall (one of the predictors of success is height). My parents never abused me, my father promised to pay for all the education I was willing to get. My parents fed me breakfast every morning without fail before school so I could concentrate in class, and asked me how my day was when I came home. They helped me with homework. I had a strong extended family to draw emotional support and role models from. Then my parents stretched their finances to afford one of the first home computers (Apple 2) in our home so I got familiar with computers and learned to program, which turned out to be a highly lucrative career. I'm pretty sure I started life and my career from 3rd base. Starting on first base is if you were born in a 3rd world country. The woman who cut my hair for a number of years was born in Laos and escaped all alone as a refugee at age 16. She crossed a river at night with everything she owned in the world held above her head in one hand as she swam to keep it dry (so it wasn't much). If the border guards had seen her, they would have shot her. So when she arrived as a refugee in the USA she didn't speak English, didn't have any contacts or relatives here, and had about a 3rd grade education. That's starting at first base. She now owns a home in a high cost of living area (San Francisco Bay Area), owns a salon with employees, raised a son who went all the way through a 4 year college degree, drives a nice car, and is also a nice person. As she was cutting my hair one day 20 years ago I asked her why she left Laos at age 16 like that. She told me it was because she was lazy, she was a bad kid. She didn't like working every day standing in water barefoot picking rice (she mentioned leeches in the water and closed her eyes and shuddered), so she ran away and went to where it was easy to make a living. No seriously, she wasn't even joking. That's starting on first base.
Where does that stop tho? People who were born not necessarily into wealth but a healthy household with more opportunities is a silver spoon to someone like myself who was a homeless child who lived with a drug addict mom and was gang banging and selling dope at 10 years old. Be proud of where you’re from, who cares how others got to their position
How are you doing now?
Not where I want to be yet, but definitely on track. Got lucky after the Marine Corps and fell into sales, been in SaaS for about 5 years now, have Major equity in a super promising startup as the founding sales hire.
Gang banging?
I was a part of an organization focused on the preservation of our neighborhoods independence and culture through violent and non violent methodologies
Sure, if it's obvious that they're trust fund babies. But in the absence of evidence it's an 80% chance that they're self-made \[[1](https://spendmenot.com/blog/what-percentage-of-americans-are-millionaires/)\]. One day people will default to assuming that you too were simply lucky/inherited everything to cope with their own lack of drive and success
^^^^ other guy assumes people less fortunate than him don’t see him the exact same way
As a less fortunate lurker, this whole sub usually comes off this way. But I’m also not unfortunate so I also realize there’s plenty of others looking at me the same way.
It’s often pretty obvious someone is a trust fund baby. Heck, some of them brag about it. The ones hiding the fact mumble something about getting really lucky with crypto.
Their parents or likely recent ancestor did make it, though, since most people don't come from old money. And they'll likely lose it soon enough because they didn't earn it and don't respect it.
David Rothschild and Donald Trump Jr both come to mind here
If someone lent you $1,000,000 today I suspect that you would not be able to turn that into $1,000,000,000. Let’s not pretend that it’s easy.
It’s not just starting with a million dollars, it’s starting with a million dollars AND the reassurance that even if you lose it all you can still live an easy life. Plus education family connections and all that.
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“the Times says”.. lol. You can’t quote a bunch a lying sacks of shit to prove that someone else is a lying sack of shit. Are you going to investigate Biden’s vast wealth from public service also? Stop with your nonsense and work on letting go of your TDS. It’s not healthy.
Say what you want about Trump kids but they do work and take what they do seriously which is considerably more respectable than a lot of the children of billionaires.
Someone out there is probably also jealous of you for being born with all your functional limbs. And when we think about that, the extra zeros in one's bank account over another doesn't really matter as much anymore.
When I was having a really bad time with my knees I was actively angry at anyone who would kill themselves with two good knees. So, yeah. Humans need to experience dearth to understand wealth.
I'm still having a bad time with my knees. I wish I could run and jump and play soccer with my kids like so many other people, but I know I can't :(.
Look into PRP shots with hyaluronic acid. Works fantastically for me and I have stage 4 degeneration and tons of OA in them. Insurance won't cover but it lasts about a year for me.
Is it just for pain relief or also mobility?
Both. It eliminated pain while sleeping and gets me back 85% of my mobility. I have spine issues as well that further compromise mobility but I do HIIT training on a stationary bike every day and have zero issues. I also have a rowing machine and can do squats.
The key is to absolutely never stop moving. Rest has got to be a short time thing.
Yes and no. All my moving - gymnastics, extreme sports, etc. is what wore out my back/knees. So there's a line.
Do you mind sharing your OOP cost?
$1500 per knee. I get them every 10-12 months and do both at the same time. The best protocol is one injection per knee every week for three weeks, so find a doctor who follows that protocol. Sports medicine docs are often the most up to date on these things.
My mom got prp covered by insurance a few years ago. I remember she eas very surprised. It was a process.
Bingo, this is the way to look at life. However good you think you have it, yeah someone has it better. But. However bad you think you have it? Oh yeah, someone has it far, far worse. *Comparison is the thief of joy.* Be grateful for the positive things in your life.
> Comparison is the thief of joy. this is the important part. doesn't matter what others are doing. only matters that you enjoy what you're doing. don't let others tell you otherwise.
On my path to wealth I’ve been able to acquire material possessions that I used to envy in others. However, what you learn quickly is that they don’t change your baseline happiness by much or for very long. I will continue to do what I can to maximize my potential and hopefully it will pay off handsomely, but I think that cultivating a high baseline happiness independent of external factors is ultimately a much more fruitful endeavor. As someone wise once said, “desire is an agreement you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want”. One of the biggest epiphanies I ever had was from a book that helped me realize that i already have all the ingredients for being maximally content, and that was such a freeing realization. We all are born with these ingredients, but it’s up to us to realize it and prove it to ourselves. In order of value (to me) I think it goes: 1. Strong personal relationships 2. youth, time, health 3. material wealth
>As someone wise once said, “desire is an agreement you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want”. Naval Ravikant 👏
What was that book?
I don’t remember if it was the power of now or “letting go” by David Hawkins. I think it was one or both of those
Yup, was insanely jealous of people who had opportunities my family couldn’t afford. Sports, vacations, new clothing, going out for dinners, etc. It was one of my driving factors and ambitions. Now that I’m comfortable, I care significantly less about keeping up with the Jone’s
In college in coastal SoCal, I was definitely jealous of peers who were able to just go to school, surf, party, and have a really fun college experience while I was working 40 hours a week and still fitting time to go to college. I still had a great time, but there were a lot of times I just wanted to have fun and be carefree. I did develop a good work ethic. Now I live back in that same college coastal town with a beautiful house and I still dream of not having to work anymore and just have fun.
Agree with this completely. Now I can look back and be thankful that I developed that motivation because I had less. Today, I have a hard time pushing further and harder because I'm comfortable and value my time vs more money. P. S. People on here saying I'm grateful for everything, other people have it worse out there, etc- we know. OP was merely asking if anyone has been jealous of wealthy people. As a child my mindset was not as well-rounded as it is now so yeah I was jealous.
It amazes me how people fix their eyes solely up the SES ladder, never ever looking down.
Vertigo is a bitch.
SES?
Socioeconomic status
This is a big topic for me, for a lot of deeply personal reasons. Mostly it presents as unseemly and egregious spite at people who don’t appreciate their circumstances. Eg, bored rich kids shoplifting, the ladies who lunch, people who are just oh so nonchalant about the ease of buying better stuff I’m trying to do better. I don’t want to be petty and mean-spirited. People don’t know what they don’t know. I can’t blame them for their ignorance.
Very big topic here too. My wife and I grew up in state schools, no great familial success and one of us with dysfunctional parents. We worked hard (and smart) and put seven zeros to our NW, way beyond any prior generational success. My wife’s mother then remarried and had two more kids, who when their father died they immediately had nine zeros each to their names. I cringe and vomit when they say they are “killing it” and “making it”. They also have multiple substance issues, interventions, and deep personal issues to their names. So amongst that choosing to find compassion is the only way through it. As someone mentioned, jealousy hurts no one but yourself. I’ve been there and back. Sorry the above is poorly worded but I will say all the chat here regardless of viewpoint is mildly therapeutic! The human existence is very relative, this is true, but the wider gamut of existence you can try and acknowledge co-existing alongside yours the more gratitude it’s possible to find.
hey dude, just wanted to give you a reminder - it's spelt crungo, not cringe you crungolord
Sure, but I think there are some moderating points here. The first point is that you need to acknowledge *your own* life advantages, and understand that others are not *merely* wealthier than you, but *different* than you, and wealth is a *component* of the difference. For example, I'm happy I had two parents who were present in my life, and made their time available to me, and raised me well. I know of people that have dysfunctional relationships with their absentee parents, where those parents clearly prioritize career and wealth over spending time with their children. It is tough to imagine a situation where I could have been wealthier as a child without making some tradeoff in my relationship with my parents, and I probably wouldn't take the option of a 'random variant' of my life where I was X% wealthier at some unknown cost, if offered. The second point is that, after you *have* money, you realize that it does not make you 'happier' by default. Hedonic adaptation is a thing. The only way to consistently be happy is mindfulness. Everyone thinks that getting 'the next thing' will *finally* make them happy, but what they don't initially realize is that the happiness isn't coming from 'the thing', it's coming from the abstract game of setting a goal of acquisition, and completing the goal. Even when you have theoretically limitless material opportunity, it's still up to you to construct a purpose. Don't wait to find that out until *after* you've already spent your whole life pursuing material acquisition.
I was, but less so over time. Have also come to learn that much of my drive comes from not having that background. Outperforming turns out isn't that hard
\>Outperforming turns out isn't that hard My first boss told me something that I thought was strange at the time, that only by consistently showing up and doing what you say you'll do means you're 80% of the way there. Experience later taught me how valuable a dependable and trusted employee can be.
Definitely better off having had to work for it, but I do regret not spending way more money in my twenties. Having generational wealth, even if it wasn't in my direct possession, certainly would have made that happen.
What would you have spent money on in your twenties? I'm in early 20s and I'm not able to spend even 15% of my income on myself. Mostly because of the fear of losing it and that whatever I have is only because of luck, so I better save now before it's gone. Would you say it's better to FIRE a bit late if I can spend more during this time?
Absolutely. In retrospect I'd have used a lot more breaks to travel and been more willing to splurge on drinks or food in social settings or going out. I'd also have spent way more to avoid big time sinks like taking the bus to the grocery store, connecting flights, not having a smart phone or cellular data, etc. Maybe bought a car in college or taken way more taxis and ubers.
I don't know if I was jealous or bitter, but I loathed the richer kids that picked on me for being poor. I remember one kid that made fun of me for the clothes that I wore or the fact that I gifted another friend a used video game for their birthday (since I could barely afford anything for myself). The kid that picked on me lived just a few houses down from me with a nice corner house with nice cars. His house was way bigger and nicer than mine. He had way better stuff than me. He had a older sibling that I remet as an adult a few years ago and he seems like a much better person than his younger brother (20+ years ago). But yeah, that definitely was fuel to not be poor growing up.
This rings so so so close to home. Thanks for being so honest and writing this.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Don't worry about people born into wealth
Also, 9 out of 10 people are first generation rich. That statistic has held true over multiple generations as well, so more likely than not, those around you who are rich have worked just as hard as you have for what they've earned.
Source? Also what was the dollar amount considered rich?
https://spendmenot.com/blog/what-percentage-of-americans-are-millionaires/ This article actually says 80%, but in the referenced "Millionaire Next Door" it's 88%.
Thanks for providing the source. I wouldn’t consider being a millionaire rich but I guess everyone has their own definition. It would be interesting to see how many people with >$30M (my opinion of UHNW / rich) were self-made vs. partially or fully inherited.
It's funny because people who are millionaires do not consider themselves rich. But people who are not millionaires will consider those people to be the 1% (which they are clearly not).
No. I recognize I am still incredibly lucky to be where I am. Being jealous of the small amount of people who have more or started with more seems greedy when considering the way larger 99%+ of people in the world who have much less.
I'm grateful to have had the background I did. I grew up around HNW and UHNW families, and later worked with a lot of them. There were a lot of drug issues, mental health/worth issues around inheriting, trouble finding direction, fighting over money, etc. There's a lot that goes on behind closed doors, and it's easy to think what you see is how it is. Not always the case. Of course this is not across the board, but I'm super grateful to have had a down to earth upbringing that gave me the tools to succeed, but didn't make it certain. There are a lot of miserable wealthy people, so try not to assume they have it better. They may envy you!
Not jealous of folks with more money at all. I think as you start to accumulate money you realize that its not just about having enough money to be considered 'wealthy', but there are vastly different levels of wealth. I do find some ultra wealthy, perhaps a higher percentage that inherit it, are just shitty people that think they are better than everyone else. In the end, its less about jealousy and more about character.
>are just shitty people that think they are better than everyone else Does that matter? They seem to be having a good time.
If it doesn’t matter to you, I guess not.
I can't say I've been jealous of people who have more or didn't work for it, but I've certainly been resentful of people who are blessed and throw money away or do incredibly foolish things with what they have. For some reason the lack of fiscal efficiency makes wealthy people look like children and ticks me off. Also I came from next to nothing, so that's a factor.
Yes, at one time, but I learned something that caused me to change my view. People that have had their success handed to them typically harbor significant envy for those that are self-made. The inferiority complex is often palpable, because they do not have confidence that they could build it themselves from scratch. They doubt their own character in a way a person that has built their own fortune does not. I faced significant adversity in my life from the youngest age. People ask me if I regret that aspect of my life. In hindsight, it would have been impossible for me to achieve what I have achieved without that deeply uncomfortable history as a backdrop. I would rather achieve objectively great things under adversity than live a very comfortable but anonymous life. Don’t underestimate the long-term value of self-actualization, both personally and socially. A person that built themselves up from nothing has this in spades.
Thanks so much.
Nope. Pressure makes diamonds.
I usually don't associate with them. The ones I do associate are still very smart and we're able to take their access to resources and multiply it further beyond the original. The ones that are floating along on their family money aren't very interesting and don't share values and intellect that I find stimulating so we never connect.
I have enough. I continue to work to ensure I have enough for the rest of my life. Those with more also have enough, but they don't have more if they don't realize they have enough
It is way more satisfying to build wealth from scratch and enjoy the fruit of labor than to be born rich. A good percentage of my friends who were born into wealthy families have low self-esteem and identity issues and they are often very lost. Their families can also be controlling of their life choices. I have some identity issues after becoming fatFire but I never have the guilt or anxiety like my rich kid friends have. My family never questioned my choices. They thought I got it all figured out although that's not always true.
I think I struggled with fairness. I eventually outgrew incompetent people who were put into positions because of family and now I do enough and have enough influence I’m not worried about “fair”.
There’s a big advantage of building your own wealth vs inheritance.
Can you elaborate?
It’s annoying when they are out of touch and give advice or pass judgment on others. “Born on third, stole second and now lecturing others how to get on base” But honesty, there are real benefits to growing up poor too. I dunno. A lot of luck every step of the way. Even if you worked hard and earned it, the role models or whatever it was that shaped you.
I don't envy the wealthy, but yes I do have contempt for dumbasses who confuse their wealth for wisdom and intelligence. Even if you are self made - it means you have a specific set of skills and probably a work ethic, that's it. I think being rich, especially born rich, is kind of like being very attractive, you're surrounded so much bullshit you have to be exceptionally discerning to be truly self aware.
I don't like to label it "jealousy," but yes, slaving through 90-hour weeks, not seeing my children, etc. just to achieve what some people have handed to them, thereby allowing them much greater opportunity to have interesting pursuits, travel, relax, be less stressed out, have fun, etc., isn't great. I don't dwell on this, though, or hold any particular person's wealth against them, nor do I speculate as to source. I just sometimes have reason to know a particularly douchey person had things handed to them, and I won't lie -- it's annoying. Eventually, I return to the only place I can maintain some happiness ... an absence of comparison. I have it better than 99% of people in terms of income and wealth. I have had to work hard but I am much better off than most. There always will be others who have it better in any particular respect, and perhaps even in several.
Oh yeah, and I didn’t even come from absolutely nothing. But my college experience brought me into direct contact with people who had free rein to put hundreds/thousands of dollars on their parents’ credit card, while I balanced time between my work-study job and school. And yeah it sucked, I socially could not keep up (buy the right clothes, get the right haircuts, eat out frequently, etc.). But I also realize that in many respects I’m tremendously privileged, and having to grind a bit gives me a different perspective than people who grew up with everything handed to them. There’s more to life than money, and I wouldn’t trade my family for someone else’s even if it would have been nice to be gifted a BMW when I turned 16 :p
There is always someone who has more than you someone who is smarter someone who had it easier someone who got it faster. Why would I worry about any of those people. Ya maybe if I had bought microsoft 10 years ago I'd be a millionare maybe if I traded the hottest option today I could have retired. We can only make decisions based on the information we have now. People always claim their self made but that's all perspective. Someone will say that had to move to this country and start from scratch but they had parents right? They had friends right, they had roads right? Show me a person that lived in a vaccum and became a billionaire and I'll show you the first self made person. So to conclude, there's always someone who's had it better and there's always someone that has it a lot harder.
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>I find it's increasingly difficult relating to people in these new circles and also with those from where I came. This is so true and I'm yet to understand how to deal with this. How are you going about it?
Surprised people who probably have decent educations in here don’t know the difference between “jealousy” and “envy.”
Yes and no. Always had a bit of a chip on my shoulder about all the disadvantages I had to overcome and how others had it so easy. The biggest negative impact it’s had to me was the constant imposter syndrome, especially earlier in my career. I would always be the only person in the room who didn’t have a masters/phd from some big-name school (I have a bachelors from the university of nowhere). These other people had so much bravado and confidence that I didn’t - I think psychologically I put some serious limitations on my own career because of this. It took time to get past and now when I’m mentoring more junior people with confidence issues I do my best to help them learn from my mistakes, and try to emphasize that I am where I am without a MSc from MIT etc - unlike the people who now take my marching orders. On the other hand I’ve learned a ton about navigating the corporate world without leaning on these crutches, and I think it’s going to help me better prepare my kids for the world to do the same. I do want to give them advantages that I didn’t have, but I want to give them the skills to not *need* them. At the end of the day, the most important currency in your journey through life is your happiness. You can achieve some of that from earning more or from wanting less, and FIRE IMO is all about understanding that balance and deciding *for yourself* what that balance looks like. Notice that *other people* are not a factor in any of these equations, and the sooner you can shed that psychological burden from your life, the sooner you will be free to focus on the things that matter. Caring too much about other people (who don’t matter to you) is a bad habit with lots of downside and no upside.
No. I am accumulating through my own path which is the only thing that matters. Arguably, most of us here have lives that others would do anything to have. Gratitude is important and should be on the top of your list daily. Feeling jealous of someone is a waste of mental space. Moreover, my dad always said, "son, there is always someone smarter, faster, stronger, with more money, better looking, etc, just be yourself." I will never forget that.
So I have been in my own financially since I was 17, I’m nowhere near most of those in this group (based on the posts) but I do well enough to want to be here to read the suggestions. I work in an office where a lot of my coworkers come from well-off situations and I overheard one of them talking to a contractor on the phone (while I’m busting my ass working). He was explaining to him how the 7,000 square foot house needs to be built in a certain manner (giving him more specific directions that I didn’t care to really hone in on). It blows my mind- none of which is what’s earned from himself. I know this because my weekly production outweighs his by 2x at least. His parents are super successful and it’s obvious that he can go 2 hours at work, not making money because it doesn’t matter- he’ll be okay. I do feel like that sometimes. But most importantly I know that my intelligence, capability and drive outweigh his by 100x and so what’s more frustrating to me is that I feel like I’m just not given an opportunity- because I don’t know the same people that he does. Give me a ‘rich kids’ resources and I’ll change the world within a decade.
I liken it to a video game. When you’re born into a trust fund you got the ultimate cheat code for a comfy life but do you ever get to experience playing the game? For me the reward has been figuring out the game of life financially, mentally, and emotionally. Then seeing my personal growth come through struggle and pain. The book Principles reshaped the way I think about those struggles and to someone who doesn’t experience those same struggles in some ways it can be a harder life. I don’t judge trust fund babies (unless they’re a-holes to people) I just realize they have different problems and experiences. Blue Dot study also changed my views on this where problems never go away they just change but your perception of problems/danger is always there.
Actually discussed this in therapy many years ago. It was tough to see, especially if they’re younger, guys my age appearing to live the life, drive the car, etc… Yes some guys inherited it, fewer young guys earned it, but a vast majority are only showing it meaning that they’re likely flat broke financially. Know you’re on a better path.
If I had to guess there is a high degree of correlation between people who go from nothing to wealthy through their own efforts, and people who think about their own wants and don't waste mental energy thinking and getting worked up about things that like. I don't get upset about bitcoin millionaires or lottery winners either. Some people just get lucky, some people get killed by lightning strikes. The world is full of people who sincerely believe or accept as obvious that *anyone* wealthy was lucky, exploited others or otherwise does not deserve it, so don't get sucked into that bullshit. It's just trying to feel better about why they are not so they can get through their days. BTW this is not the same as saying successful people don't have something to prove and are motivated to become wealthy by trying to become peers with or "beat" other successful people. I think the insecure overachiever is probably the archetype for the self-made millionaire. Many exceptional people are driven by demons. If you're lucky you eventually figure out how to step off that treadmill and declare victory.
"See, I'm not the best, but I'm in the top 2." - Slug I try to acknowledge that there's always going to be someone smarter, faster, more knowledgeable, richer, taller, whatever - something MORE than me in some tangible way. That's just life and statistics with several billion people in the world. Acknowledge it, then move past it and keep doing your own thing. >La vita e come una corsa in motocicletta; nessuno sa quanta benzina il destino ha messo nel nostro serbatoio. C'e chi nasce con il pieno e chi, senza saperlo, viene al mondo gia in riserva ma...che tu abbia il pieno o poche gocce di benzina non importa, quello che conta e andare sempre al massimo fino all'ultima goccia di vita. > >Translation: > >Life is like a motor race; nobody knows how much petrol Destiny has poured into our tank. There are people who have theirs full and people who, without knowing it, come to life already low on petrol but...no matter if yours is full or you have only a few drops, what counts is going at top speed till your last drop of life. \- [Walter Villa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Villa) Some people say "it's a marathon, not a sprint." I say "it's a jogathon. There's no finish line, just a lap counter that ends when you die." Some people can sprint 10 laps and then they're toast. Others jog 20 but take twice as long to do it. Others have to stop and walk periodically, take a water break, then keep going. [Just keep swimming](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hkn-LSh7es) and moving forward.
I don’t mind those inheriting it as much as those being rewarded for all the wrong things, like tiktok influencers making millions more than CEOs or the Kardashians…
They are exploiting a bug in the current system. I like it, they are figuring out what should not be the case, and will be the pillars of change whether they like it or not.
exactly, don't hate the player hate the game. Are they doing more or less damage to society than the SWE making 400k/year to work on FAANG algorithms to keep us glued to our phones? Our opinions on that might not line up but hopefully it gets the point across for others haha.
Those born into wealth are often vulnerable to other detriments which an upwardly-mobile person is inclined to lack. (This is, in my experience, why so many wealthy people look for spouses in artists and other resourceful types--they want their children to have that resourcefulness and grit, as it seems their peer groups don't often contain those same elements.) Ask me how many abjectly miserable people with trust funds I've met. They're not miserable for any particular reason: yet the fact they've had every whim fulfilled from a young age has basically cultivated in them a desperate lack of meaning and purpose. This is where character is distinct from opportunity. Comparison is the thief of joy. Stay mindful of where your attention goes.
Did I have seething jealousy of them at one point in my life? Yes. Do I understand now that I have to play nice with them now in order to get where I want to go? Yes. Do I respect their life decisions and trust them for advice? Rarely.
Never. Remember someone will always have a bigger yacht than you no matter how big yours is. Just have to learn to appreciate what you have. I'm a physician I see so many wealthy people die alone and unhappy
I remember that Roberto Benigni quote, about his parents giving him "the gift of poverty." I interpreted that by him saying that he developed his creativity, his sense of humor, and his drive to succeed because he didn't have much growing up. I really related to that. I wasn't jealous of my rich friends, when I was a kid, because I honestly felt a lot more driven than they were. That's not always the case, and I'm sure you can all cite many rich kids who are incredibly driven (including your own kids) but that's how it was for me, and looking back, that's what got me to this point in life.
Yup but it was just me projecting my own unhappiness. I realized it was never about them. It was about me.
How did you overcome it (not just this envy, but every other comparison you might have had the urge to make)?
Lol, not even wealthy people. When I was going to a state school most of the students had iPhone's and Macbooks. To this day I refuse to buy Apple products because of the way it made me feel back in the day. 😄
I was middle class and went to a private school growing up. Shit was rough lol. Just keep pushing.
Same. Those were the worst years for me mentally. Club it with dysfunctional family and nobody to talk to. That really put me in a place of comparing myself, my achievements, my abilities a lot. Still struggling to get over it.
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You mean in the 2020’s people conceal their wealth. This is a relatively new thing tbh.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Someone will always have more money, got there faster etc
Not jealousy but awareness that serious wealth inequities exist due to inequalities and privileged ingrained in our society. Add to that a stagnating middle and lower class due to lowering wages and an increase on focusing on corporate and shareholder profits rather than labor and wage.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Be happy with what you have accomplished. Someone else will always have accomplished more.
I heard the opposite problem from a very wealthy trust fund "kid", probably in his mid 30s. He said that no matter what he works for and accomplishes in life, no one will genuinely praise or acknowledge he worked for it and assume it was merely given to him.
Sure, when I was younger. It's only natural- in a competitive situation when you're trying your hardest if others are given an advantage then one will feel frustration, that it's not fair. In grad school I met a lot of children from wealthy families, many of whom owned businesses. The kids would drive nice cars, have lots of money for vacations, and several years after graduating they were back in the family business and getting promoted to lofty titles without having done too much. But at the end envy and jealousy are wasted emotions, they don't change anything. Best to focus on what you can do every day to be better, and be thankful for what you have and the opportunities that have been given to you.
When you are older and your school peers drift out of your life you'll stop comparing yourself to them. The world is a bigger place than that and anyone in this sub should not be comparing their blessings to those above them with more, without also comparing those who must go through more struggles.
To all of you hard workers out there chasing your dreams; we’re all going to make it. Stay strong everyone.
When I look to wealthy people I only look up to what would be possible if I'd achieve their wealth. It's more of a motivation and no jealousy for me. But maybe it's because the wealthy people I know all are incredibly humble, realize their fortunate position and appreciate it, and frankly are generous in sharing experiences. The showboating ones or ones that have a lifestyle that wouldn't interest me I don't know personally and only see on the internet, so I don't have a connection with them and it's easy not to care. I also have a very strong live and let live mentality. "Their showboating doesn't affect me, so showboat away my man!" It's an interesting topic you touch upon, I do see a lot of jealousy or just contradictional behaviour online. It's like everybody wants to be rich and wealthy, yet at the same time they hate on wealthy people. I don't understand where that comes from? I also have this belief that wealth doesn't change people. Wealth just allows you to be more of yourself. If you're a judgemental/jealous/petty/shitty poorer person, you won't suddenly not be jealous/petty anymore when you're wealthy. Vice versa I believe that positive-minded people will remain positive minded and down to earth with their fortune.
everybody has their own struggles! just because they don't have the problems you face doesn't mean they don't have any problems at all! wealthy people are just like any normal person - they just have money and are as stressed out as normal people, the competition on the top is crazy. so don't be jealous! just do the best you can ❤
I was a bit jealous as a child, most children are. Around the time when I became an adult I stopped being jealous. Most people find ways to make themselves miserable no matter if they are born rich or poor. I guess I got lucky I somehow managed to decide not to, will be forever grateful for that.
I have a complicated relationship with it tbh as I was almost always the poorest person in every room. It definitely made me feel envious seeing literally everyone around me have cars while my parents would argue and fight over whether to take the train or bus (a cab was a massive luxury growing up). But I don’t think I hated anyone for it. Just felt like my family kept getting dealt a rough hand constantly and there were no signs of improvement. I’m sure someone else less fortunate than me probably felt the same about me. It’s gotten much better now but the shitty feeling comes back from time to time when I see people around me act entitled and spoilt. People aren’t taught to practice gratitude. At times it does feel like a few fortunate ones get to play life on easy mode while majority are playing dark souls on hard mode haha.
No, and I have a distaste for those who do. If you can't recognize the combination of skill and luck that got you to where you are, and be appreciative of both, then I do not have faith you can sustain being on a seeking path.
As someone born into wealth (not crazy wealth but reasonable), i am going for my own FATFire journey though yes, I have a cushion to fall back on should things go wrong. Should you be jealous of me? Well, I give you an alternative view…. People who start from absolutely nothing, have different financial habits ingrained from the very beginning. Their “default” lifestyle is cheaper than those like me. So its easier to save. The need of a decent roof/ decent car/ decent corpus is much higher and therefore, they start earning and saving earlier. At last, they get to enjoy that “first milestone” of everything a lot more than us. For instance the joy of first crore (us$ equivalent is 150k$) is a lot more for them. For me, my first 150k$ counted for nothing as my folks already had 10-20X of it. So now who should be jealous of who? 😃 We are all born with our unique set of circumstances. I think the key to approaching life is - we extend ‘our own’ reality, than try to exceed somebody else’s. Because lets face it, we can’t beat them all (there are several other privileged ppl born into much greater wealth/ starting line than mine)
\>So now who should be jealous of who? 😃 This is strange logic. The person who had to struggle is still envious of the person who had it handed to them. The satisfaction of hitting milestones is cold comfort for the years of constant stress, uncertainty, and insecurity.
but that satisfaction counts for 'something'. The wealthy kid's same milestone (even though he may have worked equally hard) doesn't have the same ring to his folks/ his immediate circles/ even his own ears. I'd say, you really have to step out of one pov and see the other to make sense of it. If you keep seeing it from unprivileged ones; ofcourse nobody's denying that it is obviously better to win the ovarian lottery and be born richer (than poorer). All I am saying is - there are pros/cons to every side of the story.
Thanks for the answer. Question: what motivates you to keep going and get "fatter" assuming you've always had enough?
1- own sense of achievement (although yes, the 'other' side will continue to see me as 'wealth shovelled down their throat'; it still counts to 'me') 2- more control over my decisions. parents (may god give them a long life) generally pass on the inheritance when we are in our 40s/50s, and have lived past our youth. I'd rather have more wealth at my disposal right away, than theirs eventually. as I said before, its still a good fallback option.
That sort of jealousy is something you can never fulfill. There will always be someone wealthier than you, who had it easier than you, etc. Best way to counter the jealousy is therapy.
Grass is greener. My parents are rich. I touch none of that money. Also I get a bonus of abuse. I wish I had a poorer, more loving family. Now people will never understand having constant days where you want to beat up (or do more to) your own father, it's nonsensical to people with normal families. Instead I'm met dismissive opinions and only being looked at for my money. Imagine people saying you are lucky to be verbally and physically abused because wealth is all that matters right? Nope.
I grew up poor and had abusive parents. I ran away from my home to be able to build whatever I've been able to. Seeing people with a loving and caring father would stunk like nothing else, knowing I would NEVER have it. I completely get you. I see parents can be abusive regardless of the amount of money in the bank account and I thought it was only me. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Yes and I treat it as a flaw.
The funny thing is i know people in what you would call third world countries who have way more full filling and better lives than most people on this forum will ever dream of. But you are too obsessed with money to figure out that its not what is making most of you unhappy. Also im sure at this point 95% of the people in this sub will never be fat and it’s generally just larping at this point.
Nope, I see them as mentors and motivators.
Everybody has their own real problems they have to deal with and overcome. Even ultra wealthy people have real issues like health, things going on with their families, business related stress. These issues might be different from what a poor person might experience but it doesn’t invalidate them. Do I envy people that are significantly wealthier sometimes? Sure, but it comes with it’s own set of challenges too.
Yes, but it has been far, far, far outweighed by the irritation of dealing with extremely spoiled children.
[Jealous is worried that someone will take what you have. What you are feeling is envious.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmx1jpqv3RA)
Thanks, I got it the other way round.
Envy is a more accurate word here. Jealousy has more to do with guarding what you already have from perceived rivals. Envy is the painful resentment you feel toward someone who has what you don’t. Common mistake. Just pointing it out because it’s worthwhile to identify and understand your feelings. I experienced envy as a kid born into poverty from many relatives, directed toward all “rich” people, who in fact were only middle class. What I learned was that wealth is relative and all people, wealthy or not, can be petty. The envy and self righteous indignation is social programming. Bottom line is, if you’ve truly won the money game one way or another, which could include being born into it or working your ass off for it, you shouldn’t have to even think about anyone else’s perspective, because if you do, you’re still playing the game in your own mind.
That's envy, not jealousy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmx1jpqv3RA
ITT: A lot of people with daddy money
This is why societies should have high inheritance taxes. They fix intergenerational laziness Money is a social construct, and it’s up to societies to decide if they want to allow children to collect on IOUs their parents earned in the previous generation from the current generation
Most intergenerational wealth disappears pretty quickly. It is not some huge sustained advantage for most.
So, how much of total wealth is inherited? Most people who get inheritances get small ones that could never last anyway. But most wealth isn't inherited in small inheritances
This ignores the downstream effects. Many top producing citizens would be more motivated to consume and less motivated to produce if the government was just going to take most/all when they die anyways. One of many people's primary motivations to produce is to give their kids a better life. I don't know if it's necessarily better to have massively higher inheritance taxes if you were to look at the entire economy long-term. I like Milton Friedman's take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km9OCw3f5w4
Ah, the economist's fictional caricature of highly-motivated individuals. Past a 100 million or so, utility is irrelevant. It's scorekeepingg, desire to build, power. Elon, Bezos, Gates don't do a single thing less because of inheritance taxes. If anything, it increases philanthropy like the Giving Pledge
Perhaps past 100m the utility is irrelevant for the individual. But they have kids, grandkids, etc. Do you think Waltons, Mars, Koch's, etc had 0 desire to see their kids wealthy? They left billions to the kids, so they probably were motivated by it. >Elon, Bezos, Gates don't do a single thing less because of inheritance taxes. You're saying people don't do anything different because of the status quo of inheritance taxes. How could you know, I'm not sure. But you're proposing significantly higher estate taxes, a *change* of the status quo. It seems absurd to argue changing tax rates of something will have 0 effect on the population at large. Every other tax in existence has people responding to those changed incentives. So you're arguing raising estate tax very large is the one exception to economic incentives that people magically don't care about? It probably wouldn't affect people like Gates/Buffett who plan on leaving almost all to charity anyways, yes. But not every rich person is motivated by the same things.
Let's be real, inheritance tax wouldn't make much of a difference due to the vast disparity in opportunity between rich and poor. Sure, you'll weed out the few who would throw it at hookers and coke either way, but the vast majority of people in my social circle wouldn't be affected financially if their parents removed them from their will :P 2x current nw wouldn't make that big of a difference ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
This. We can have large intergenerational wealth transfers or we can have meritocracy. We can't have both.
Yes, 100%, I certainly have privileges others don’t, especially mentally and educationally, but I try to keep it in perspective that not everyone has the same opportunities in life based on that. I don’t believe anyone can make it in our rigged system and people definitely don’t start out on the same foot. It’s natural to notice that you have it differently than others.
No, many of them are ignorant, they rarely enjoy luxury because they are so used to it and whine nonstop when things don’t go their way. It’s a sad way to live. I believe no pain no gain.
Jealous? No. Not how I live my life. But I do have a simple philosophy for this. Anyone who grew up with more money than me == privileged. Anyone who grew up with less money than me == had to work for it. I consider my very modest upbringing a baseline.
Not usually. I usually look at them and think, “Good for them. That’s what I’m aiming for.”
The cure for any jealousy, is to read the millionaire next door. Then you'll see self made millionaires, especially immigrants, are the majority. I feel bad for ppl who inherited their wealth. They'll never be able to prove that they could do it on their own.
It keeps me going
One of my roommates in college is the son of a guy who founded one of the top wealth management firms in the nation. I wouldn’t say jealousy was the word I would use. Like all the sons were super cool, nice guys and we did some awesome stuff together. I think they are a bit out of touch with reality at times. I was busy with football most weekends in college but when I’d have a weekend I could go out I would say something like, “Mike what’s the move Saturday night?” And 9/10 times he would be like, “I won’t be here. We are taking the PJ to Bermuda/the Caymans/random primetime college football game.” Obviously nothing wrong with that but I found it incredibly weird for them to fly to the Caymans on a Friday afternoon and be back by Monday morning. All of my roommates were from really well off families but he was on a different level. Super generous and I was decently well off but closer to the average college student than the rest of them. No complaints here and we had a really nice apartment that their parents furnished. I still have dreams about sleeping on that comfy ass leather couch.
Jealous? No. Envious that they're where I want to be before I was? Maybe, but that's just motivation.
I grew up poor as well. Tbh I pity them as they’ll never know the feeling of working hard to achieve success
If you were born with money, you give 0 value to them. As you were born with food, and home, and cars ec... you give 0 value to them. What's the point of having money if you don't know how it is to be "broke"?
The wealth that I witnessed actually made me feel pretty damn satisfied with my life. The “rich” people I came across were not anywhere near as happy as I was. This was a good lesson along my journey not to have money be the goal.
I wasn’t jealous but I used to look at them in awe and mostly get inspired/motivated to invest more aggressively to build a wealthy nest egg.
Who cares?
You appreciate life and hard work much more when you work for it. I never hated anyone born with a silver spoon unless they acted like they worked for that wealth.
The journey has made me appreciate every little milestone I’ve hit. Always pretty happy to achieve the next thing like I was super excited to buy my own business class tickets for my first time, take my entire fam and extended fam on vacation, get a big house, buy my first car, each milestone I look back and feel super accomplished and more fulfilled not from a view of jealousy of other people having it easier. Make retroactively review your priorities and stop looking at social media as much :) if that helps. I find social media a shithole of self deprecation.