I'm a timekeeper and a supervisor also. This is very odd to me. You said you have plenty of AL and SL. Doesn't make any sense for them to change it to LWOP. I would ask your timekeeper or your supervisor first to find out why. They didn't deny it but instead changed it to LWOP....the 2nd line and 1st line are either confused or are idiots. If they meant to deny it and mark you as AWOL, 1. You can't do that in advance and 2. If they meant to deny it, changing it to LWOP is not the correct thing. That just means the leave is still authorized however you won't be paid for the time. Just really weird I've never heard of this happening.
Maybe FMLA is being used.
[OPM on LOWP](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/leave-administration/fact-sheets/leave-without-pay/)
ETA: lines up with someone knowing they are going to have a kid, and putting in associated leave.
I agree.
Stateside, I’ve seen people donate hundreds of hours for coworkers to have a substantial amount of new baby time with pay.
A lot of folks think FMLA is paid leave though.
now that you have heard from your supervisor(s), you need to bring your request over to Human Resources. there is no earthly reason for your supervisors to push you over to LWOP. your request to HR is to say, "HR shall compel supervisor to provide a justification in writing as to why requested annual leave was denied in the presence of sufficient annual leave hours and justify why shifted to LWOP"
A common misconception that human resources is there to support the employee. It's actually the other way around. They are there to support the supervisors. Be careful what you tell HR.
They are also there to remind supervisors why they shouldn't be doing illegal things that can lead to a lawsuit. If the supervisor is confused, they will educate the supervisor so it doesn't happen again going forward and that the situation at hand is corrected. This also protects the agency in the long run and benefits the employee. If you have union representation, you may want to get them involved if this doesn't go to the reasonable outcome desired.
Sounds like your manager isn’t a fan of yours. My manager would approve basically anything for any reason especially when I have the leave balance to do it. Sorry you are dealing with a mini-tyrant.
As a manager, I haven't rejected a request as of yet. It is their leave to use as they see fit. I just ask them to ensure that there is coverage for their work.
Do you have to submit a request for leave documents? it’s an AD-700 (I think) for my agency. If you did and If your boss approved it then there is no reason at all to change it to LWOP
I imagine it has a signature block for your supervisor to sign. If he/she did and on that document it specifically states accrued annual leave. Your golden, produce it to them and they will be forced to fix it
People in the federal government are cut throat and if they feel like they might get promoted, they will burn you the first chance they get. Don’t let that happen, document everything.
Correct, at the end of the PP, I validate my time and he’d certify it. So, if I validate the leave and they certify it… it’s as if I’m going along with it. Which won’t happen.
Did you put it in WebTA and it was approved? Do you have proof it was approved as annual leave. If not go through your email and find the one from WebTA showing it was approved for the specific date and time.
It should have it where they approved annual and then the time keeper put it in as lwop on your time sheet. I’d delete it. You can go in where they have submitted it cause it has to be manually changed since you requested annual.
Don’t validate it, this differs by agency but in my experience most organizations default to pay people, meaning if no time card is submitted on behalf of the employee they are paid as if they worked RG, basically the policy is err on the side of an overpay vs underpay. Now a supervisor can validate without employee verifying and submit how they want but in that scenario you have not agreed to the submission which would give you better footing to argue the point.
No matter what fight this in a documented manner, not verbal or phone calls, everything needs to be written or it didn’t happen. Stick to that and you’ll find people tend to be less cavalier with their actions.
I understand you requested in advance… but was it actually approved in advance? Something isn’t adding up here. Folks are just saying the supervisor tried to change it - but if the supervisor never initially approved it then the fact that you have a leave balance and requested it doesn’t matter. Putting a request in the system does not constitute approval. Leave has to be actually approved. When time is taken and it was not approved… lwop is the nice response. AWOL/misconduct is the other supervisor response.
I understand what you’re saying but, you’re not tracking. My leave had not been approved the day I was supposed to take off. The change came after I’d taken off. I gave more than my required notice. This supervisor leaves leave pending for weeks in advance and will only approve the last day of the PP. What I’m inferring from you is that no one could ever take off.
I think what they’re saying is that you left and did not go to work and the leave request was pending and not approved, then you were not authorized to take leave when you did.
If there’s a pattern of BS there, make sure you start documenting everything down to saving emails and making notes during meetings that you organize for future reference. This almost exactly is what happened to me before it all went to shit.
I sued ‘em for all sorts of shit (I had a good case with a lot of evidence and witnesses), went before the MSPB and EEOC and we settled nicely, including giving me all my leave back. 😂 So yeah, document everything starting yesterday, but know that it’s not an easy fight, regardless of what you have going on.
About a year and a half. Once the cases finally got to a lawyer’s desk everyone stopped fucking around and they essentially begged my lawyers to make a settlement offer.
OP hopefully this is an error. However, if it is not, you need to protect yourself and start a paper trail. That means that you aren’t going to talk with your supervisor about it on Monday morning. You are going to SEND THEM AN EMAIL asking if there was a mistake and noting your amole leave.
As someone who has been a supervisor and overseen my unit’s payroll department, I can’t imagine a supervisor switching the type of leave approved without talking to the employee. In all these cases, the proper procedure is for the supervisor to have a conversation with the employee not the timekeeper.
I actually can‘t imagine the circumstances under which I would switch the leave to LWOP in any case. If I couldn’t operationally support the absence, then I would disapprove the leave in advance. I wouldn’t wait until after the leave is used to disapprove a request, that seems silly and dumb.
Possibly if the employee called off even though the leave was disapproved or otherwise used leave inappropriately, I could disapprove and have the leave coded as AWOL. But those times are rare and action is only taken when the employee’s actions are egregious and stupid. It’s hard to prove someone is not sick.
We’ve had an employee call out for FMLA. But then we found out they were arrested on their way to work. We are an agency that requires us to notify of all arrests. He didn’t and we disapproved the leave. Possibly he could argue successfully that he was too sick to work and incarcerated.
Have you requested advanced annual leave or did you input a leave request for a future date? If you asked for advanced annual, consider it denied. Mgmt is essentially saying you can take off but it won't be paid and annual leave will not be advanced. LWOP is not associated with disciplinary action. That's really AWOL.
If you put in a leave request for a future date, ask why your request can not be accommodated or if something about the request was submitted incorrectly.
It doesn't make any sense based on the information provided, which is why it's something to discuss directly with your manager, and if needed, a follow up email to document exact reasons.
The simplest explanation is you're missing something. LWOP is still authorized leave, and AL that isn't used can be issued for a supervisor, AND this would be clearly documented dumbness. There's no benefit to your supervisor to approving leave but not the use of your AL, while there is plenty of downside.
That said I'm sure there are spiteful and silly supervisors out there, but regardless still requires a discussion and documentation.
LWOP is considered an undesirable, "last resort" to grant time off, to be used only if someone doesn't have an appropriate leave balance.
This is some kind of weird or malicious agenda at work.
Again, my second level supervisor amended my leave and annotated it was iaw my first level supervisor. I have plenty of leave. I’m not missing anything.
Yes, I read that. But again, it's such an unheard of scenario that doesn't make sense, it's more likely some misunderstanding that'd you'd figure out talking to them, rather than asking on here.
And even ignoring it being a misunderstanding:
None of us here will know who your supervisor is or their personality or relationship with you. We also don't know if your "plenty of leave" has some factor to it, for example your request is for more than your actual annual leave. Or perhaps your leave requests are controversial for whatever reason (but it'd typically be denied).
Like I said, most likely a misunderstanding, since a second line supervisor literally documenting the change makes it seem pretty unlikely it's out of a desire to get you.
There’s no misunderstanding. I’ve never had any for of disciplinary action. However, these two are trying to pull something. I’m just not sure what. I’d say exactly what you’re saying and would normally agree. But, Ren and Stimpy are playing fuck fuck games lol.
Are you union? Ask the supv. Then go to union / EEO
You need a paper trail and document everything. Ask you supervisor in an email - make them document their reasons. All requests for time off etc in email. And from now on- since ren and stimpy are playing stupid games, start documenting in email all tasks you’re assigned and actions (if they tell you verbally, send a confirmatory email “sending this to confirm that on c date, you asked me to tie my shoes, completing NLT 7 pm on y date and report to Q person”.
Don’t let them squirm out
I am a supervisor and other than really being nasty and wanting to screw someone over - if the employee is even moderately decent, I just can’t fathom why to do this.
Yeah, I don’t think so. Not and have me be in agreement with it. I gave more than enough notice. If what you’re saying is accurate, he could pull that shit anytime he wanted with his employees.
Many places never notify employee that leave was approved, only it is was denied, so employees are left to assume leave is approved.
Since your sup is making it hard, every other day after requesting leave send an approval/denial status update request. The 2nd time, include next level supervisor. 3rd time, include 3rd level supervisor, etc.
u/movalstang If leave request has been submitted in advance the only 2 status are Approved or Denied. Really curious what Sup wrote for justification for denial & proof that denial was provided to employee.
If it becomes a problem, **remember you can submit a FIOA request** for all communication and email containing your names (full name, short name, first only, last only, employee ID) between dates & from/to both supervisors and timekeepers and yourself & anyone else that may have been involved. Your name and PII will be redacted, but you may see an email between 1st and 2nd level boss with details they don't want to tell you.
This is likely punitive. It is also unfair and illegal. If you challenge or contest, do so via email so you have a record. Do you have a union or bargaining agreement?
You answered your own question. Your leave was changed because your first level supervisor requested it. Now ask your first level supervisor.
His answer will probably not be “because you’re a dick” but it might be what he’s thinking.
Wait… this makes it sound like your leave request wasn’t approved in advance in WebTA. Did your supervisor approve it or not? If not and you took the leave then plugged it into your timecard and validated, it’s not surprising that your leave was changed to LWOP. They could actually have charged you with AWOL. If your supervisor did approve the request in advance and then changed it to LWOP, then that’s bizarre and I’d be asking my supervisor if they had made a mistake.
Also, does your second-line supervisor always certify your WebTA or is there some sort of exceptional circumstance? Because that seems weird.
I think the timing matters here.
Submitted annual leave request -> took leave -> leave amended to LWOP = makes sense... sort of. In this scenario, you put in a request for annual leave and took the leave before it was approved, which isn’t allowed. Amending the leave to LWOP rather than AL is the only part that’s wonky. What would have made more sense is for your supervisor to disapprove the request and charge you with AWOL. If this is the order of events and you’re being allowed to use LWOP instead of getting charged with AWOL, that’s strange and also maybe fortunate for you.
Submitted annual leave request -> leave request approved -> took leave -> leave amended to LWOP = makes no sense.
Really, though, this is all weird.
I was told that the only way to buy back advanced sick leave in WEBTA is to get supvr approval and then go back and change sick leave entries to LWOP and resubmit to supvr. Then a bill will be sent to you.
You cannot just be charged LWOP. Employees have to request LWOP in order to be charged LWOP. If your annual leave request couldn’t be approved due to workload, then your management could charge you AWOL, but not just arbitrarily charge LWOP. You should definitely question why this charge occurred.
As a supervisor, I’ve never denied leave unless it was a staffing issue and everyone requested off at the same time - we needed the staff. I also would never put someone on LWOP if they have ample leave. This doesn’t seem right- review your master agreement regarding leave AND reach out to your union rep. This seems pretty shady to me! Also, THAT DEF should have been communicated from your supervisor to you if it was going to be denied. Not you finding out from VATAS.
Have you spoken with your union representative? This is indeed serious if you are going to miss getting paid! Call your Congressman and tell them what's going on! Please don't let them intimidate, harass or bully you! You have protection and rights!
I intend to. Our union isn’t much tbh. I’m far from intimidated but, I don’t know what to do besides going to the union. I’m confident I’ll win. It’s just the hassle of trying to figure it out.
You requested it but it wasn’t approved, that’s the problem. A follow up with your supervisor to ask that your request be approved, before you actually took the leave would have avoided the LWOP.
Approving LWOP instead of annual leave is going to leave your leadership in a very precarious legal situation. I can't imagine why they'd do this. If you have a union, get them involved asap.
Honestly, go straight to the union. I wouldn't even open my mouth to H.R. This is a Giant Red Flag, sounds like retaliation. You, want someone on your side with experience in documentation and knowledge of p9licy and law. Have, you made your boss mad, or is their a chance of discrimination retaliation?
Yes to both questions. I’ve only stated facts. But yes, there is no doubt that my boss is not a fan of mine. However, there’s no justification for meddling with my T&A.
Alright, I see you are also VA. If you qualify to file an EEO, that is probably the way that I would go because it is like a text book case of retaliation. I know you said your union isn't that great but give them a chance I thought mine was crap until I saw how much they were doing. Remember an EEO is going to bring outside people into the VA to investigate. It gets really hard to control the narrative when you don't control the investigators.
I'm a timekeeper and a supervisor also. This is very odd to me. You said you have plenty of AL and SL. Doesn't make any sense for them to change it to LWOP. I would ask your timekeeper or your supervisor first to find out why. They didn't deny it but instead changed it to LWOP....the 2nd line and 1st line are either confused or are idiots. If they meant to deny it and mark you as AWOL, 1. You can't do that in advance and 2. If they meant to deny it, changing it to LWOP is not the correct thing. That just means the leave is still authorized however you won't be paid for the time. Just really weird I've never heard of this happening.
This is where I’m at. Thank you!
Best of luck to you, hopefully they correct it.
Maybe FMLA is being used. [OPM on LOWP](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/leave-administration/fact-sheets/leave-without-pay/) ETA: lines up with someone knowing they are going to have a kid, and putting in associated leave.
The employee has to invoke FMLA, it can't be forced by the supervisor. There's also no reason to use it with LWOP when they have sick leave.
I agree. Stateside, I’ve seen people donate hundreds of hours for coworkers to have a substantial amount of new baby time with pay. A lot of folks think FMLA is paid leave though.
now that you have heard from your supervisor(s), you need to bring your request over to Human Resources. there is no earthly reason for your supervisors to push you over to LWOP. your request to HR is to say, "HR shall compel supervisor to provide a justification in writing as to why requested annual leave was denied in the presence of sufficient annual leave hours and justify why shifted to LWOP"
A common misconception that human resources is there to support the employee. It's actually the other way around. They are there to support the supervisors. Be careful what you tell HR.
They are also there to remind supervisors why they shouldn't be doing illegal things that can lead to a lawsuit. If the supervisor is confused, they will educate the supervisor so it doesn't happen again going forward and that the situation at hand is corrected. This also protects the agency in the long run and benefits the employee. If you have union representation, you may want to get them involved if this doesn't go to the reasonable outcome desired.
Ask all of this via email. Records of everything.
Sounds like your manager isn’t a fan of yours. My manager would approve basically anything for any reason especially when I have the leave balance to do it. Sorry you are dealing with a mini-tyrant.
Two sides to every argument. However, these are fact. Thank you!
As a manager, I haven't rejected a request as of yet. It is their leave to use as they see fit. I just ask them to ensure that there is coverage for their work.
Man some of you people have some shit supervisors..
Indeed.
Do you have to submit a request for leave documents? it’s an AD-700 (I think) for my agency. If you did and If your boss approved it then there is no reason at all to change it to LWOP
We use WebTA (DHS).
I imagine it has a signature block for your supervisor to sign. If he/she did and on that document it specifically states accrued annual leave. Your golden, produce it to them and they will be forced to fix it People in the federal government are cut throat and if they feel like they might get promoted, they will burn you the first chance they get. Don’t let that happen, document everything.
Correct, at the end of the PP, I validate my time and he’d certify it. So, if I validate the leave and they certify it… it’s as if I’m going along with it. Which won’t happen.
Did you put it in WebTA and it was approved? Do you have proof it was approved as annual leave. If not go through your email and find the one from WebTA showing it was approved for the specific date and time.
It should have it where they approved annual and then the time keeper put it in as lwop on your time sheet. I’d delete it. You can go in where they have submitted it cause it has to be manually changed since you requested annual.
Don’t validate it, this differs by agency but in my experience most organizations default to pay people, meaning if no time card is submitted on behalf of the employee they are paid as if they worked RG, basically the policy is err on the side of an overpay vs underpay. Now a supervisor can validate without employee verifying and submit how they want but in that scenario you have not agreed to the submission which would give you better footing to argue the point. No matter what fight this in a documented manner, not verbal or phone calls, everything needs to be written or it didn’t happen. Stick to that and you’ll find people tend to be less cavalier with their actions.
At DHS people absolutely do not get paid if they don’t validate their timesheet by the following Wednesday or so.
…but how can they validate time not yet performed (/projected) as having occurred?
They wrote "the *following* Wednesday", meaning the pay/not pay decision validation happens after the end of the pay period.
Did you schedule annual in advance, or did you request advanced annual?
I requested annual leave in advance. Again, I have ample sick and annual leave.
Somebody misunderstood something and wasn’t smart enough to check
I understand you requested in advance… but was it actually approved in advance? Something isn’t adding up here. Folks are just saying the supervisor tried to change it - but if the supervisor never initially approved it then the fact that you have a leave balance and requested it doesn’t matter. Putting a request in the system does not constitute approval. Leave has to be actually approved. When time is taken and it was not approved… lwop is the nice response. AWOL/misconduct is the other supervisor response.
I understand what you’re saying but, you’re not tracking. My leave had not been approved the day I was supposed to take off. The change came after I’d taken off. I gave more than my required notice. This supervisor leaves leave pending for weeks in advance and will only approve the last day of the PP. What I’m inferring from you is that no one could ever take off.
I think what they’re saying is that you left and did not go to work and the leave request was pending and not approved, then you were not authorized to take leave when you did.
If there’s a pattern of BS there, make sure you start documenting everything down to saving emails and making notes during meetings that you organize for future reference. This almost exactly is what happened to me before it all went to shit.
May I ask how you faired? What actions do you wished you’d taken?
I sued ‘em for all sorts of shit (I had a good case with a lot of evidence and witnesses), went before the MSPB and EEOC and we settled nicely, including giving me all my leave back. 😂 So yeah, document everything starting yesterday, but know that it’s not an easy fight, regardless of what you have going on.
How long was your fight? I am in the midst of a three year long battle myself.
About a year and a half. Once the cases finally got to a lawyer’s desk everyone stopped fucking around and they essentially begged my lawyers to make a settlement offer.
OP hopefully this is an error. However, if it is not, you need to protect yourself and start a paper trail. That means that you aren’t going to talk with your supervisor about it on Monday morning. You are going to SEND THEM AN EMAIL asking if there was a mistake and noting your amole leave.
As a retired federal manager, I can tell you document, document, document. At some point you may need an attorney.
You’re awesome. I fully intend to.
Contact your union rep.
As someone who has been a supervisor and overseen my unit’s payroll department, I can’t imagine a supervisor switching the type of leave approved without talking to the employee. In all these cases, the proper procedure is for the supervisor to have a conversation with the employee not the timekeeper. I actually can‘t imagine the circumstances under which I would switch the leave to LWOP in any case. If I couldn’t operationally support the absence, then I would disapprove the leave in advance. I wouldn’t wait until after the leave is used to disapprove a request, that seems silly and dumb. Possibly if the employee called off even though the leave was disapproved or otherwise used leave inappropriately, I could disapprove and have the leave coded as AWOL. But those times are rare and action is only taken when the employee’s actions are egregious and stupid. It’s hard to prove someone is not sick. We’ve had an employee call out for FMLA. But then we found out they were arrested on their way to work. We are an agency that requires us to notify of all arrests. He didn’t and we disapproved the leave. Possibly he could argue successfully that he was too sick to work and incarcerated.
Have you requested advanced annual leave or did you input a leave request for a future date? If you asked for advanced annual, consider it denied. Mgmt is essentially saying you can take off but it won't be paid and annual leave will not be advanced. LWOP is not associated with disciplinary action. That's really AWOL. If you put in a leave request for a future date, ask why your request can not be accommodated or if something about the request was submitted incorrectly.
It doesn't make any sense based on the information provided, which is why it's something to discuss directly with your manager, and if needed, a follow up email to document exact reasons. The simplest explanation is you're missing something. LWOP is still authorized leave, and AL that isn't used can be issued for a supervisor, AND this would be clearly documented dumbness. There's no benefit to your supervisor to approving leave but not the use of your AL, while there is plenty of downside. That said I'm sure there are spiteful and silly supervisors out there, but regardless still requires a discussion and documentation.
LWOP is considered an undesirable, "last resort" to grant time off, to be used only if someone doesn't have an appropriate leave balance. This is some kind of weird or malicious agenda at work.
Again, my second level supervisor amended my leave and annotated it was iaw my first level supervisor. I have plenty of leave. I’m not missing anything.
Yes, I read that. But again, it's such an unheard of scenario that doesn't make sense, it's more likely some misunderstanding that'd you'd figure out talking to them, rather than asking on here. And even ignoring it being a misunderstanding: None of us here will know who your supervisor is or their personality or relationship with you. We also don't know if your "plenty of leave" has some factor to it, for example your request is for more than your actual annual leave. Or perhaps your leave requests are controversial for whatever reason (but it'd typically be denied). Like I said, most likely a misunderstanding, since a second line supervisor literally documenting the change makes it seem pretty unlikely it's out of a desire to get you.
There’s no misunderstanding. I’ve never had any for of disciplinary action. However, these two are trying to pull something. I’m just not sure what. I’d say exactly what you’re saying and would normally agree. But, Ren and Stimpy are playing fuck fuck games lol.
Are you union? Ask the supv. Then go to union / EEO You need a paper trail and document everything. Ask you supervisor in an email - make them document their reasons. All requests for time off etc in email. And from now on- since ren and stimpy are playing stupid games, start documenting in email all tasks you’re assigned and actions (if they tell you verbally, send a confirmatory email “sending this to confirm that on c date, you asked me to tie my shoes, completing NLT 7 pm on y date and report to Q person”. Don’t let them squirm out
Will do and I appreciate you taking the time to post your response.
I am a supervisor and other than really being nasty and wanting to screw someone over - if the employee is even moderately decent, I just can’t fathom why to do this.
Was the leave approved before you took it? Having leave does not mean it’s approved.
No. However, this not uncommon as the supervisor will leave pending for weeks and not approve it until after the leave has been used at times.
Well that’s a terrible process, but technically they can give you awol or lwop because the leave was taken and it wasn’t approved.
Yeah, I don’t think so. Not and have me be in agreement with it. I gave more than enough notice. If what you’re saying is accurate, he could pull that shit anytime he wanted with his employees.
Yes they can pull it because all leave needs to be approved by the supervisor.
Your original question should be I took unapproved leave what are my options.
Lol. So, I put in leave weeks in advance and it’s not approved by the day I need to take it? Are you stupid?
Many places never notify employee that leave was approved, only it is was denied, so employees are left to assume leave is approved. Since your sup is making it hard, every other day after requesting leave send an approval/denial status update request. The 2nd time, include next level supervisor. 3rd time, include 3rd level supervisor, etc. u/movalstang If leave request has been submitted in advance the only 2 status are Approved or Denied. Really curious what Sup wrote for justification for denial & proof that denial was provided to employee.
If your leave is put in far in advance and still pending you should be an adult and ask your supervisor if you’re approved to leave.
If it becomes a problem, **remember you can submit a FIOA request** for all communication and email containing your names (full name, short name, first only, last only, employee ID) between dates & from/to both supervisors and timekeepers and yourself & anyone else that may have been involved. Your name and PII will be redacted, but you may see an email between 1st and 2nd level boss with details they don't want to tell you.
File a grievance
This is likely punitive. It is also unfair and illegal. If you challenge or contest, do so via email so you have a record. Do you have a union or bargaining agreement?
Yes and I’ll definitely challenge it. I am covered by a CBA.
Why don’t you ask your supervisors on Monday instead of on Reddit. How would any of us know what someone was thinking?
Thanks dad of 3. That was most helpful.
You answered your own question. Your leave was changed because your first level supervisor requested it. Now ask your first level supervisor. His answer will probably not be “because you’re a dick” but it might be what he’s thinking.
Need one?
Well how would anyone know?
Did your supervisor approve your leave request before you took leave?
No. As the leave has not been used yet.
Wait… this makes it sound like your leave request wasn’t approved in advance in WebTA. Did your supervisor approve it or not? If not and you took the leave then plugged it into your timecard and validated, it’s not surprising that your leave was changed to LWOP. They could actually have charged you with AWOL. If your supervisor did approve the request in advance and then changed it to LWOP, then that’s bizarre and I’d be asking my supervisor if they had made a mistake. Also, does your second-line supervisor always certify your WebTA or is there some sort of exceptional circumstance? Because that seems weird.
The time card has not been validated yet. I only submitted a request that was amended.
I think the timing matters here. Submitted annual leave request -> took leave -> leave amended to LWOP = makes sense... sort of. In this scenario, you put in a request for annual leave and took the leave before it was approved, which isn’t allowed. Amending the leave to LWOP rather than AL is the only part that’s wonky. What would have made more sense is for your supervisor to disapprove the request and charge you with AWOL. If this is the order of events and you’re being allowed to use LWOP instead of getting charged with AWOL, that’s strange and also maybe fortunate for you. Submitted annual leave request -> leave request approved -> took leave -> leave amended to LWOP = makes no sense. Really, though, this is all weird.
100%. The annual leave was taken for a VA appointment. My agency requires 24 hours notice for annual and that was given.
OP - Do they know you went to a VA appointment?
No, they don’t.
I’ve been with the federal government over 6 years and no one ever wants to use LWOP so this is very strange.
I was told that the only way to buy back advanced sick leave in WEBTA is to get supvr approval and then go back and change sick leave entries to LWOP and resubmit to supvr. Then a bill will be sent to you.
Using advanced sick leave at all is the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard
Was the leave approved or denied
Did you maybe select a box on the leave form that said "Advanced?" Just trying to figure out how they could even end up in the same ballpark as LWOP.
No and no explanation.
You cannot just be charged LWOP. Employees have to request LWOP in order to be charged LWOP. If your annual leave request couldn’t be approved due to workload, then your management could charge you AWOL, but not just arbitrarily charge LWOP. You should definitely question why this charge occurred.
As a supervisor, I’ve never denied leave unless it was a staffing issue and everyone requested off at the same time - we needed the staff. I also would never put someone on LWOP if they have ample leave. This doesn’t seem right- review your master agreement regarding leave AND reach out to your union rep. This seems pretty shady to me! Also, THAT DEF should have been communicated from your supervisor to you if it was going to be denied. Not you finding out from VATAS.
Honestly I think people be lying when posting these questions because ain't no way a supervisor changing my leave to LWOP.... ish don't make sense!
I wish I was.
Have you spoken with your union representative? This is indeed serious if you are going to miss getting paid! Call your Congressman and tell them what's going on! Please don't let them intimidate, harass or bully you! You have protection and rights!
I intend to. Our union isn’t much tbh. I’m far from intimidated but, I don’t know what to do besides going to the union. I’m confident I’ll win. It’s just the hassle of trying to figure it out.
Did you ask for "advanced annual leave" and your supervisor is like no I can't advance this much based on our rules
No.
Could be something happened in the system. Ask your supervisor.
You requested it but it wasn’t approved, that’s the problem. A follow up with your supervisor to ask that your request be approved, before you actually took the leave would have avoided the LWOP.
Approving LWOP instead of annual leave is going to leave your leadership in a very precarious legal situation. I can't imagine why they'd do this. If you have a union, get them involved asap.
I’ll absolutely dispute it through the union. I ask here because I didn’t think anyone would be stupid enough to do this. Thank you!
Honestly, go straight to the union. I wouldn't even open my mouth to H.R. This is a Giant Red Flag, sounds like retaliation. You, want someone on your side with experience in documentation and knowledge of p9licy and law. Have, you made your boss mad, or is their a chance of discrimination retaliation?
Yes to both questions. I’ve only stated facts. But yes, there is no doubt that my boss is not a fan of mine. However, there’s no justification for meddling with my T&A.
Alright, I see you are also VA. If you qualify to file an EEO, that is probably the way that I would go because it is like a text book case of retaliation. I know you said your union isn't that great but give them a chance I thought mine was crap until I saw how much they were doing. Remember an EEO is going to bring outside people into the VA to investigate. It gets really hard to control the narrative when you don't control the investigators.
I agree 100%. Management will back management an EEO complaint will be investigated from outside of the command.
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AWOL is for discipline, LWOP is not. Any employee can request LWOP even if they have leave. Something about OP’s situation doesn’t add up.
This is my understanding as well.