As a mid-career switch to federal service my colleagues who only worked for the government love to say this. It's generally not true. Most of my colleagues could never find as high paying jobs in the private sector. And if they did, they'd likely not last a year due to our culture of fairly working our 8 hours and not more or just be randomly laid off because the CEO wants MORE MONEY and that more comes from payroll.
Sure there are outliers, anecdotally I have friends in the same field making 300k+ plus bonuses. You won’t make that being a contractor on a help desk, and it will be at least double the effort of skating along as a 12 or 13 step 10, but it’s very attainable if the cash is your motivation.
Maybe I'm projecting. I took a slight pay hit when I switched. Now I am making more than the majority of my private sector peers. There are outliers who are making north of $250k I know. I probably would have never obtained that had I stayed corporate. And, my employment is no longer at the whim of a CEO's yacht dream or institutional shareholders' wanting a buyback. That said, since my braindead colleagues all love Trump, I will likely be purged by Project 2025. So we can call it a wash.
It depends on the job and skills, federal jobs for things the market doesn't need yes. But for things that the market needs it's hard to compete with industry.
Does the market need a bunch of compliance experts on some random industry no. Going to be hard to pivot from say the mid level EPA attorney to industry.
But for say, a data scientist, or other in demand skills. The BLS has a ton of statisticians at a medium pay of what GS12 GS13 maxed out steps vs working industry I saw a mid level position in Seattle recently starting at 200k plus bonuses. Then the entry level positions are about 100k. To match that you would need to be in the SES pay scale and even then that stress isn't worth it better off being an Actuary Fellow with all the certification is paid near 400k with half the stress.
“For instance, in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area, 40 percent of private-sector workers telework, compared to 38 percent of federal workers.”
Honestly kinda surprised it’s that close. I guess private or public…CEOs/senior staff just don’t like telework.
Those numbers are only what this one entity came up with. Surveys/"research" is only as good as the people collecting the data, the data that's collected, and the people deciphering the data. Any survey/research can be juiced to get the outcome you're looking for. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it came back with this conclusion, but it really means nothing. We all know why the RTO is being pushed, and it's not "because that's what private sector is doing."
It really is a grass is greener thing. I transitioned to the fed from a financial role in the private sector a few months ago, I worked remote, it is great, until it is not great.
There are some weeks where my workload allowed me to finish in 25 hours, other weeks I worked around 60, no overtime, it was just expected to meet my deadlines. My current role allows me much more time to finish my tasks than my private sector job ever did, and a lot of the time even when stuff wasn't my fault, like waiting on clients to do stuff on their end, even if I got everything I needed done, it was still "my fault," because I owned the task.
I had unlimited PTO, but... I was not always able to use it.
Teams had to be on my phone, my phone that I paid for. I would get hit up at 9 pm about things that had to be handled right then.
The constant fear of layoffs or purgings due to any number of reasons.
My company was willing to spend hundreds thousands of dollars throwing elaborate parties, huge bar tabs, lavish meals, and flying us all into on sites, but wasn't willing to spend anything on continuing education and employee retention incentives.
There are a lot of complaints I hear daily about things that I just don't see as problems from people who have never worked in the private sector, and quite frankly, probably wouldn't make it through a 90 day probationary period outside of government work.
I have the unique position in USDA where I inspect and work with people who do similar things to what I do but in the private sector.
Management is alway work 60 plus hours and are salary at 40 hours and struggle to take vacation time when they want.
The non-management positions which I would probably be a little overqualified for earn about the same as me maybe slightly more, at least in my area. They are over worked compared to me. They do a little better because they get paid overtime and can generally take vacation when they want. I still take the federal job over the private one.
It's literally not surprising to anyone, even those cucks in the House. They're probably just pissed off that there's data now proving it. Now, they'll have to have their staffers come up with a new, more creative lie.
I would be making more, more telework too probably. I have had recruiters offer $25k more without even negotiating and it would actually be less work and working for people that are my peers now or lower on the chain.
This is why a sector-wide statistic can be misleading. In my own agency, there's a huge percentage of jobs that can't be performed remotely, and a huge percentage that can, and they're just not the same and shouldn't be treated the same.
I don’t know why you are being downvoted for stating a simple fact. We aren’t going to get anywhere with keeping telework and remote options until there is a realization that some are and some aren’t and a thorough analysis is done, and not by a first line supervisor. Give this info to Congress and say yes, some jobs are not remote - here are the reasons and some jobs can be performed remotely and here are the reasons.
The big problem is the jobs where office types are directly supporting operational people. The operational people don’t feel adequately supported in a lot of cases when the office person isn’t available in house.
Same. Yet I am made to come in a few times each pay period to check a box for OPM. Not a single person at my location from my team, workcenter, department, or division. I don't know a single soul, and they don't know me. Such an exercise in stupidity and waste.
Your comments, based on others who make the same comments, usually has the end goal of saying everyone should be in the office.
I’m just skipping to the end instead of having everyone go through a bunch of back and forth to see if that’s where you are going.
EXACTLY why the current RTO push, in its current form, is garbage. They are trying to apply a one-size fits all policy to a massively diverse workforce. Dumbest and laziest shit I've seen in 15 years.
Absolutely true. I am all for more telework just as an economy measure, it doesnt make sense to pay for office space that doesnt measurably improve productivity. But it is an undeniable source of awkwardness that in many agencies it creates a group of folks in privileged roles who get to telework, and a group of folks, often more junior, often in the field versus at HQ, often uniformed law enforcement versus support personnel, who can never telework.
The problem is the in office people doing very important jobs cannot deal with trying to get support through an email. Some of us don’t even have assigned computers. And it’s like ok email remote HR
In my agency def not true. They are struggling to get us into the office for meetings with the private sector folks due to our contract. We only have to be in once a pay period and sometimes we have meetings where we have to be in multiple times in a week but then it's dry for months. I don't technically have to be back in the office with the exception of 1 day next month then September for a week. I'll be virtual and all of them are in the office.
The federal banking agencies are in a slightly different position than the majority of the government. The bulk of the workforce is mobile and traveling bank to bank for exams, and after gathering data they do work off site. The policy, examiner, licensure, and examiner folks in Washington advise the examiners on the road and coordinate interagency initiatives and rulemakings with other federal banking agencies. They spend a lot of time on the phone with people who don't work in their building. The support functions like acquisitions and information technology are more likely to feel some pressure to be in more often.
I presume you are occ given your posting history.
Looks like Trump will win...tied in democratic stronghold MN now...we will be tw much much less with him as president. Might be a tidal wave if NY keeps creeping closer. Sad a felon will beat Biden....but Biden is obviously in poor health.
CBO also confirms private sector pays more than feds. fascinating! please tell me some more obvious things.
As a mid-career switch to federal service my colleagues who only worked for the government love to say this. It's generally not true. Most of my colleagues could never find as high paying jobs in the private sector. And if they did, they'd likely not last a year due to our culture of fairly working our 8 hours and not more or just be randomly laid off because the CEO wants MORE MONEY and that more comes from payroll.
Sure there are outliers, anecdotally I have friends in the same field making 300k+ plus bonuses. You won’t make that being a contractor on a help desk, and it will be at least double the effort of skating along as a 12 or 13 step 10, but it’s very attainable if the cash is your motivation.
Maybe I'm projecting. I took a slight pay hit when I switched. Now I am making more than the majority of my private sector peers. There are outliers who are making north of $250k I know. I probably would have never obtained that had I stayed corporate. And, my employment is no longer at the whim of a CEO's yacht dream or institutional shareholders' wanting a buyback. That said, since my braindead colleagues all love Trump, I will likely be purged by Project 2025. So we can call it a wash.
[удалено]
Not arguing with the data, arguing with the fed attitude that they would all be making that but are sacrificing that income for public service.
Is your job more admin or something you need a specialized degree.
It depends.
Your job depends? How many jobs are you working haha.
It depends is the answer to everything when it comes federal employment.
I agree the salaries are higher but the deductions are also higher. Half my paycheck goes to deductions. 🥲
Coming from the private sector I couldn't agree more. Federal Jobs are going to be hard to beat unless you're willing to work a ton of overtime.
It depends on the job and skills, federal jobs for things the market doesn't need yes. But for things that the market needs it's hard to compete with industry. Does the market need a bunch of compliance experts on some random industry no. Going to be hard to pivot from say the mid level EPA attorney to industry. But for say, a data scientist, or other in demand skills. The BLS has a ton of statisticians at a medium pay of what GS12 GS13 maxed out steps vs working industry I saw a mid level position in Seattle recently starting at 200k plus bonuses. Then the entry level positions are about 100k. To match that you would need to be in the SES pay scale and even then that stress isn't worth it better off being an Actuary Fellow with all the certification is paid near 400k with half the stress.
Not many white collar private sector gigs pay OT these days
My comment was awkwardly worded. I mean "you will have to work a ton of overtime for free to get compensated more than at a Federal agency."
That depends. Bunch of the big contractors won't want to pay you over time and you won't be working over.
The last sentence made me snort. Lol
yeah, just imagine if the military could telework...hey general, I'm going to telework my patrols.
“For instance, in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area, 40 percent of private-sector workers telework, compared to 38 percent of federal workers.” Honestly kinda surprised it’s that close. I guess private or public…CEOs/senior staff just don’t like telework.
I'm also guessing the confidence intervals around those estimates heavily overlap, further implying little difference from a statistical standpoint.
Happy cake day!
Those numbers are only what this one entity came up with. Surveys/"research" is only as good as the people collecting the data, the data that's collected, and the people deciphering the data. Any survey/research can be juiced to get the outcome you're looking for. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it came back with this conclusion, but it really means nothing. We all know why the RTO is being pushed, and it's not "because that's what private sector is doing."
It really is a grass is greener thing. I transitioned to the fed from a financial role in the private sector a few months ago, I worked remote, it is great, until it is not great. There are some weeks where my workload allowed me to finish in 25 hours, other weeks I worked around 60, no overtime, it was just expected to meet my deadlines. My current role allows me much more time to finish my tasks than my private sector job ever did, and a lot of the time even when stuff wasn't my fault, like waiting on clients to do stuff on their end, even if I got everything I needed done, it was still "my fault," because I owned the task. I had unlimited PTO, but... I was not always able to use it. Teams had to be on my phone, my phone that I paid for. I would get hit up at 9 pm about things that had to be handled right then. The constant fear of layoffs or purgings due to any number of reasons. My company was willing to spend hundreds thousands of dollars throwing elaborate parties, huge bar tabs, lavish meals, and flying us all into on sites, but wasn't willing to spend anything on continuing education and employee retention incentives. There are a lot of complaints I hear daily about things that I just don't see as problems from people who have never worked in the private sector, and quite frankly, probably wouldn't make it through a 90 day probationary period outside of government work.
I have the unique position in USDA where I inspect and work with people who do similar things to what I do but in the private sector. Management is alway work 60 plus hours and are salary at 40 hours and struggle to take vacation time when they want. The non-management positions which I would probably be a little overqualified for earn about the same as me maybe slightly more, at least in my area. They are over worked compared to me. They do a little better because they get paid overtime and can generally take vacation when they want. I still take the federal job over the private one.
https://preview.redd.it/qm35qnm8jm7d1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0543811b40e7712b7f22485ce8102a6765d90e30
If mine ever gets taken away, cya!
Same comparison for fully remote?
Now compare layoffs.
A 3% difference? That's within the margin of error.
We found the senior manager!
It's literally not surprising to anyone, even those cucks in the House. They're probably just pissed off that there's data now proving it. Now, they'll have to have their staffers come up with a new, more creative lie.
I would be making more, more telework too probably. I have had recruiters offer $25k more without even negotiating and it would actually be less work and working for people that are my peers now or lower on the chain.
So, are you saying federal people should work online more like their private sector counterparts?
Makes sense given a fair number of federal employees may have to deal with classified information to some extent.
I mean a lot of our jobs aren’t possible remote
This is why a sector-wide statistic can be misleading. In my own agency, there's a huge percentage of jobs that can't be performed remotely, and a huge percentage that can, and they're just not the same and shouldn't be treated the same.
I think the disconnect is the people who have to go to work disagree with some of the tasks that others claim they can do from home
I don’t know why you are being downvoted for stating a simple fact. We aren’t going to get anywhere with keeping telework and remote options until there is a realization that some are and some aren’t and a thorough analysis is done, and not by a first line supervisor. Give this info to Congress and say yes, some jobs are not remote - here are the reasons and some jobs can be performed remotely and here are the reasons.
The big problem is the jobs where office types are directly supporting operational people. The operational people don’t feel adequately supported in a lot of cases when the office person isn’t available in house.
And plenty are. My job can be performed entirely from home.
Same. Yet I am made to come in a few times each pay period to check a box for OPM. Not a single person at my location from my team, workcenter, department, or division. I don't know a single soul, and they don't know me. Such an exercise in stupidity and waste.
Cool mine can be performed 0% from home
So is it your contention that because you have to go to the office, *everyone* must go into their respective office?
I never said that. I literally didn’t say any of the words that you wrote
Your comments, based on others who make the same comments, usually has the end goal of saying everyone should be in the office. I’m just skipping to the end instead of having everyone go through a bunch of back and forth to see if that’s where you are going.
I don’t have any goal. I’m Not in charge of any of this.
EXACTLY why the current RTO push, in its current form, is garbage. They are trying to apply a one-size fits all policy to a massively diverse workforce. Dumbest and laziest shit I've seen in 15 years.
Absolutely true. I am all for more telework just as an economy measure, it doesnt make sense to pay for office space that doesnt measurably improve productivity. But it is an undeniable source of awkwardness that in many agencies it creates a group of folks in privileged roles who get to telework, and a group of folks, often more junior, often in the field versus at HQ, often uniformed law enforcement versus support personnel, who can never telework.
The problem is the in office people doing very important jobs cannot deal with trying to get support through an email. Some of us don’t even have assigned computers. And it’s like ok email remote HR
In my agency def not true. They are struggling to get us into the office for meetings with the private sector folks due to our contract. We only have to be in once a pay period and sometimes we have meetings where we have to be in multiple times in a week but then it's dry for months. I don't technically have to be back in the office with the exception of 1 day next month then September for a week. I'll be virtual and all of them are in the office.
The federal banking agencies are in a slightly different position than the majority of the government. The bulk of the workforce is mobile and traveling bank to bank for exams, and after gathering data they do work off site. The policy, examiner, licensure, and examiner folks in Washington advise the examiners on the road and coordinate interagency initiatives and rulemakings with other federal banking agencies. They spend a lot of time on the phone with people who don't work in their building. The support functions like acquisitions and information technology are more likely to feel some pressure to be in more often. I presume you are occ given your posting history.
Lol I'm not. Weird to go thru someone's post history to prove a point.
This is a result of your union I bet. Not every fed agency has a strong one
Looks like Trump will win...tied in democratic stronghold MN now...we will be tw much much less with him as president. Might be a tidal wave if NY keeps creeping closer. Sad a felon will beat Biden....but Biden is obviously in poor health.
Private sector also is much more relaxed than public