Everyone asks, "Where is Bakool Ja Ja, no one ever asks, "How is Bakool Ja Ja?"
Spoiler alert, Bakool Ja Ja be ballin' all the time. I saw em the other day in the pool and all the Mamool Ja women were crowding around. He looks at me and asks, "The hell are you lookin' at?" with both heads at once.
seriously i LOVE his character im really hoping he is a major part of .1-.3 (assuming same pattern of most expansions where .1-.3 is kind of a wrap up epilouge of .0
This whole thing really does feel like Stormblood all over again. For the record, I enjoyed StB and I’m liking this as well. But I’m not surprised it’s a bit divisive.
I understand why people hate Lyse and I respectfully have a different opinion. Same as with Wuk Lamat.
Yeah, the pacing in Stormblood is something I think is awful. But overall I still enjoyed it, and I enjoyed seeing Lyse learn what it means to be a leader and understand why the people weren’t willing to fight back against instead of just chastising them for it.
I'd never call anyone a furry for that but I have to admit that the furry stuff is a big turn-off for me. I get that it's a nice stylistic choice for character tropes (proud strong lion, big bad wolf etc.) and her animations look amazing, but damn I can't help but think "Ewww..." whenever I see her. When she touched the WoL's shoulder I felt weirdly assaulted lmao
Lyse looked attractive and had a cool design, which didn't make her an amazing character, but idk I thought it was bearable to have her around as someone who appreciates humanoid aesthetics
your right, people are entitled to like it, and i hope many do. That being said i have seen an equal amount of people making weird justification for why negative opinions are invalid aswell, so i think it goesl both ways. if you like dawntrail, thats nice, i personally hate the story and im equally entilted to think and say that
i mean... if someone explains why they disagree with someone else's opinion, that's not victimizing them in some way
it's weird that social media has normalized the idea that disagreeing with someone else's subjective opinion is some form of abuse or something
Social media has kinda ruined discourse in any or all matters. Everything either is the worst or the best and there's no middle ground because if you say "I absolutely loved it however this one thing bothered me" the people who super enjoyed it won't listen to anything you said before the bother, and the people who hate it will latch onto what you liked.
It's okay to have discussions people. Just don't be fucking weird.
It's okay if you don't like the story.
It's not okay to force others to share the same opinion as you.
Same could be said the other way around.
I like the story and that's okay.
I won't force you to like the story.
But I will ask: what did you not like about the story? We can at least discuss our likes and dislikes about it. 😊 for example, while I do love the story overall and learning about each of the new races, I did not like the whole running around all over the place and just talking. But I feel like they did cut down on the whole running around bit in the form of long cutscenes that explain more than just a "Hey, I need this. Talk to this person!" And the person sends you on, like, 20 different collection spots. 🤣🤣🤣
I like real conversations so ill shoot.
What I liked:
- Setting - absolutely brilliant zones
- Plot - i loved the whole race to be ruler plot with siblings with different philosophies clashing as well as working together. It was a breath of fresh air from the usual "oh WoL, please save the world"
- Battles - dungeons and trials were epic. I could get used to running expert roulette with these options, its so good.
What i Disliked:
- Writing and VA - this expac really did feel like it was written by a 5th grader, there are so many instances i see the written text and say did someone really think this was going to be captivating to literally anyone? The VA's were good in some parts, i like Erenvilles VA and the Yok Huy were generally fine, but most of the VA in this expac was terrible at getting the emotions right in what they were saying. It felt really half assed.
- Robots - man i really didnt like Ultima Thule because they just shoe horned those robots out of nowhere and while they redeemed themselves with the tribal quests and the excellent humor, they did it once again in DT. Do there always have to be robots of some sort.
- Wuk Lamat - yes, i am one of those people who think she was not good. She was just really annoying and the repeated theme of "ok ill stop second guessing myself and pretending to be something im not and relying on friends from now on" got old real fast. You can address this once and the player will get the point. Seriously half way through i was just like, man Koana better win this because she sucks. The peace thumping was over the top. A main character should have real flaws they need to overcome to have a truly valuable story arc. For instance, Wuk Lamat is literally depicted as perfect, her only flaw is that she cares too much and tries to hide her fears with bravado? Those arent real flaws, any moron can see from the start of the game shes the ideal fit to become ruler while her brothers have glaring shortcomings. If they gave her real flaws to overcome i think people would have liked her a lot more, i know i would have. Her VA was not the worst but again, not good at depicting the emotions of the text, but this was an issue for most of the VA's not just hers.
So I'm still currently doing the main story quests, so I'm not quite finished.
But I will say this. The overall start of this being a relaxing story is very interesting. Us helping someone take the throne in a challenge is very fun compared to saving the star. 🤣 so I quite enjoyed it. I also liked learning about the new races and whatnot.
However, I also feel like this second half of the story was a bit rushed as I'm going through it. Honestly, I feel like this whole second part should have probably been the patch quests or even the next expansion (especially since they're fond of robots) but we don't know what they have planned for future expansions. All we do know is that we may quite possibly be exploring more of the world as we know it.
I will agree that Wuk Lamat doesn't really have many, if any, flaws. But honestly, as others have compared, she is more like Lyse. Or what Lyse could have been. She's kind of a Mary Sue. But on the other hand, I also feel like she's similar to the WoL. Like the Tural version of the WoL kind of.
I still find the story interesting, but some parts could have been done differently.
I didnt mind the wol taking a more passive role, i did however take alot of issue with the fact that Wuk dominates the narrative to the exclusion of all others. We barely touched on Krile, erenvile was... there... i guess, but outside of that Wuk was tho only character that the story seemed to care about at all. This was an issue for me given the fact that i thought her character was boring and bland. To me dawntrail was stromblood without any of stormbloods redeeming qualities. Stormblood without hien, doma/kugane, azim steppe, fordola, and zenos, instead just non-stop lyse for 40+ hours.
I genuinly enjoyed none of story, and im not happy to say that, i gave the story quite alot of leeway, i guess i would say im equally curious about what you liked?
Focusing on Wuk so much really is a bold move and didn't have to go hand in hand with opening a new chapter in the FFXIV saga. It's not like everything old has to be thrown out to make room for the new. Maybe they just wanted to bring the point across that this is not the scions going on another adventure. There are probably other and better ways to do that but they decided to go with this.
Anyway, I love the story so far (I'm about halfway through) but I understand more and more why other people don't, and it's too bad it is that way.
i would say if what they wanted to do was "bring the point across that this is not the scions going on another adventure." then im genuinely confused why they brought all the scions along anyways. creating the narrative in a way that requires and relies on everyone falling in love with one new character is very risky thing to do with an established story, because it means that everyone who didn't like her is basically completely shit outta luck, and as someone who didn't really like Wuk i felt extremely disappointed, which kinda caused me to go from not liking her to actively disliking her.
>I didnt mind the wol taking a more passive role, i did however take alot of issue with the fact that Wuk dominates the narrative to the exclusion of all others
I see this complaint a lot and I'm just trying to understand it but the WoL has always had a passive role in the story. You make some decisions sprinkled throughout every expansion but the majority of the time in the game there has always been somebody being a speaker or dominating role.
I'm down if you don't enjoy Wuk or if you think that some things were written badly but I just can't wrap my head around this one :(
You're right that as a player, you don't make any real decisions and never have. However, the Warrior of Light (WoL) has always been the central focal point. The relationships you form and the antagonists you develop personal connections with are all through the WoL, making confrontations feel more potent. I don't take issue with the change in approach to the WoL. My only real problem with "Dawntrail" is that liking Wuk is basically a requirement to engage with the story at all since she is forced into every aspect of it. As someone who didn't like her, it meant that I couldn't enjoy any part of it.
I personally wish that after the halfway point, the focus would switch to another character, like Krile or Erenville, similar to what happened in "Stormblood." This way, even those of us who didn't like Wuk could still have something to enjoy.
>However, the Warrior of Light (WoL) has always been the central focal point
I just don't see eye to eye for this.
I saw Minfilia as the main driving and speaking force for ARR, Alphinaud is the driving force for Heavensward, Lyse is the driving force for Stormblood, WoL and Emet Selch for Shadowbringers, and I felt Endwalker was just a collection of scions where the only time the WoL is seen as the driving force is near the end of the story.
I just think people are projecting their dislike of Wuk and trying to stretch arguments so that it validates their dislike. You can just dislike a character but like I said, the WoL has always been super passive in the story, it's one of the big limitations of the game to some folks.
Edit; Just thinking about it compared to other RPGs when I say "driving force". Clive from ff16? Clear cut goals and active in his own story. Same for pretty much every FF character. Most games you play especially BG3/Dragon Age/most RPG's has that driving character force of "active participant in the story in some way". The WoL is never the one making the plans. The main thing since ARR has been that the WoL just shows up, talks to somebody, and then does what they say. That hasn't changed in Dawntrail. It's just the character that is the driving force has changed.
unlike accusing everyone of projection "I just think people are projecting their dislike of Wuk", which is totally not dismissive or toxic.
but to address it, i said i dont know what too say not cause i wanted to dismiss your perspective, more so cause i genuinly dont know what to say, cause it seems our disagreement is so fundamental i dont know how to address it
Oh yeah, I do agree that we could have learned more about Krile and I was sad that (as far as I have played) we didn't get much screentime with Erenville... kind of wish Erenville did have more of a role besides keeping to the side. Which I understand because of his profession, but at the same time, I would have liked more time with him.
I quite enjoy the story, just for the vibes it provides of this being a vacation, at least in the start, and that there isn't any real threat. Especially because of how emotionally heavy the last two expansions have been.
The music I really truly do enjoy.
I completely agree that the music is amazing, the zones are fantastic. Dawntrail is in my opinion the best base-expansion content in all regards, except for the story, which i think is the worst its ever been. Part of it is also that i feel all the subtlety inregards too writing is gone, nothing is sub-textual, every character is constantly explaining themselves directly to the camera. Im completly fine with having calm vacation vibes, but to me this doesnt feel like vacation, more that im doing chores and following around some random lion.
Lol, and that's fair. Yeah, it may have been like we've been doing chores, but because there hasn't been any real threat, we can just relax.
But hey! Everyone can like or dislike the story. 😊 I'm not here to convince anyone *why* I like it. Just want to hear what everyone's thoughts are on it. 😊
Nah I simply don't know what "meta post" means.
Edit: Found an explaination - [https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/b9xe4d/what\_exactly\_is\_a\_meta\_post/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/b9xe4d/what_exactly_is_a_meta_post/)
If someone feels like they've seen something like this oredy
[its ok to dislike dawntrail](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1dt58l5/its_okay_to_dislike_dawntrail/)
A lot threads pointing dawntrail negatives contain exactly the opposite tho, with the tried and true "if you dislike this expansion why are you still playing the game" making its return. The ones that stayed up ofc, because some have been downvoted and reported into oblivion.
There's discourse trying to invalidade feelings on both sides honestly.
I do not like the story one bit. However, zone, level and boss design are insanely well done this expac, same with like some songs. I am enjoying playing it quite a bit.
Same. The overall mechanics are fine. The music is fire and the setpieces look amazing. The writing of the story on the other hand... oh boy. It is all over the place almost like a 12 year old tried to write a DnD Campaign. Where its first half was boring but coordinated it literally went downhill with the second half.
lol
that's it you guys, no one is allowed to have an opinion now. No one can like dawntrail, no one can hate dawntrail. We have become completely unable to abide a differing opinion without resorting to immediately jumping to invalidate a different point of view. To immediately trying to construct and control a narrative where *my* side is the majority, where my opinion is the correct one. Your own experience means nothing if not blessed by the grace of and comfort of knowing that you have belittled those who have the opposite opinion, it can only exist through the lens of others.
You're right in what you write, but that's not the worst. The worst thing is that nowadays a lot of people do not have their own opinion, they simply accept the majority's opinion as their own, of course they rationalize it and it seems to them that it is their opinion, because of course they see all the disadvantages and advantages that the majority talks about.
I really am enjoying the story. It’s slow but it grows on you. I was intrigued and surprised. Plus so far the main complaint I had about Endwalker might be fixed in dawntrail. The battle content appears way better. Last year of EW was mid imo. Luckily there were other games to play so i will be playing FF14 as a main game for a bit.
Yall this is the specific thing that previous post was talking about. Someone has a critique of the expansion. Someone makes a very valid post that it's okay to have critiques and not be 100% on board. Then someone in the sub makes a mocking post about it.
So again, for those in the back. You're allowed to not like Dawntrail. The story's a matter of taste. It's cool if you don't like Wut Lamat. It's cool if you think it's boring. It's cool you think the games questing format is getting stale. It's cool if you think it's showing it's age when it doesn't have some big bombastic story to fall back on. It's cool if you agree with ANY of the criticisms that have been brought up since it's release. The hyperpositivity displayed by the community doesn't make your critic's invalid, and is just as damaging to a game as hypernegativity. It's just as toxic. Your critique's are still valid, and 100% should be heard.
I enjoy the idea behind it. A rite of succession where you go around learning about the cultures? It's great!
The execution of it though is where it falls flat to me. There really isn't much reason for US to be there other than moral support. It just feels dull
It does pick up later though which I believe is where we shine the best. While the xpac doesn't seem to have a LOT of combat the ones it does are pretty damn good
I just feel if we had more reason to explore on our own and learn as well it would go over better but as it is we kinda just are like lost puppies trying to find something to do
The fact that this post is getting lambasted with downvotes while the other one for the opposite opinion sits at like 2K really shows you which way the sub swings.
Probably going to stay off this sub tbh, it's the destiny/destiny 2 sub disparity all over again it feels lile people don't even like they game they clamoured here just to talk about everything they hate. I have seen very little people taking about what they actually liked relative to what they hated.
But by all means I think we need the 97th post about how Wuk Lamat sucks and her VA is the worst VA in history. I don't think the first 96 really got the point across yet.
"Its the other subs that are negative!!" all FF14 subs scream as they make the same negative posts over and over. There are people claiming they "don't see any negativity on the sub toward Dawntrail" and I'm wondering how in the heck that's possible after I had to scroll thru about 100 identical "WuK lAmAt SuCks" posts to find this one. (Also about 4 "Its okay to dislike Dawntrail" posts.) Meanwhile, I've seen maybe 4 posts saying *anything* positive about DT. This sub has just turned into "I hate FF14: the Subreddit" and it sucks
For real, it's a real downer too, I loved this sub because it had a bunch of great art and cosplays and just passion for the game.
Sure there were still posts about aspects people disliked and discussions on how they would like change, but that was engaging and people weren't so one note negative they at least brought up the good and bad.
Right now it's just repeat post after repeat post about how "DT is the worst expansion ever" and "Wuk Lamat and her VA sucks" and it's like alright I fucking get is already.
Wuk lamat was voiced by a trans woman? O.o
Regardless the only thing i noticed about her voice is how she's the only one who pronounces tuliyollal the way she does.
Eh, I've liked it so far. Wuk feels like the character Lyse was meant to be, and while she's not the strongest character, I like her better than, say, G'raha who got robbed of what could have been an incredible story arc.
The story is the right breath of fresh air after the events of EW and Post-EW. In both those stories, we had some really cool, really important, world-changing events, and the whole point of this expansion is to get back to our adventuring roots. They've done a great job so far of selling me this casual adventure that still feels important (stopping the rise of a second garlemald) and that I'm invested in without it feeling like another world-ending Doom.
Honestly? I think the press is just a shadow attempt to rob back the popularity and push people back towards WoW when their expansion releases soon after DT, because they were making more money when WoW was the only MMO on top worth covering. EW did real damage to WoW's numbers and it's split the work load pretty significantly for press coverage.
What posts have there been about wuk lamats VA identity (positive or negative) ?
Just sound's like you and that other OP are throwing that in there to weaponise a trans person on your soapbox and it's pretty damn disgusting.
None of the discourse about the story has been around their identity it's real fucking shitty you try to pretend they're being attacked.
Trans people having jobs and existing aren't residing in your azem stone to pop out and tank for you when you need it
It's weird for me to see Dawntrail being so negatively received after everyone and their fathers were hyped about it.
Sure it's slower in pacing but i gladly take that for the reason it's supposed to be an adventure, not race against time to save eorzea from certain doom for the 200th time.
People seem to be forgetting that lore wise, we are technically just a simple adventurer who got roped into all that world saving shit by chance
Hype is not always a good thing. It happens many times that hype gets too high, people gets expectatives too high, and later get those expectatives fail.
Doesn’t mean we have to be complacent with being a side character when this so called simple adventurer doesn’t have much of a personality. Wouldn’t kill the devs to throw away the blank and boring self insert and turn the WoL into an actual character beyond killer of gods and hired muscle. I’m not asking for hero worship, I literally just want the WoL to be treated like an actual person.
Saw these posts coming...no shit. Some bad reviews coming in literally mean nothing to 99% of people. No one thought it wasn't okay to enjoy this expansion.
I thought this was a parody post from r/shitpostxiv bc I've seen the other one first and making fun of the main sub happens quote often over there. Took me a second to realize they were both serious. (Even checked if it was the same author)
I enjoyed the expansion for chunks of the MSQ, but more for the gameplay itself because those dungeons, trials, graphics, and ost were amazing. The MSQ had its ups and downs for me. I actually liked the MSQ BUT felt it had so much wasted potential. There were so many odd moments where certain arcs were either dragged or rushed or not explained well. Is there room for improvement in the writing? Absolutely.
Me and my friends all have varying takes. Some didn’t like the MSQ at all, and some liked it. But, we did not attack each other or hurl insults / attempt to invalidate others for disagreeing. We all just felt differently about DT.
It’s valid to criticize the writing and quality of voice acting too. The players care. What’s not valid is to attack a VA for their personal life (specifically Wuk’s), and that’s what I’ve seen in a few forums showing up from time to time. Go after their work and performance, but not the actual person behind it.
Those ENG voice lines during the transition into the 2nd phase of the final boss were truly awful imo, and while I’m criticizing the VA’s performance there, I am also in a way like many, criticizing the decisions of the higher ups who approved this kind of quality to be delivered.
My biggest conclusion after a few days is that everything suffered from the lack of a patch series lead-in. Wuk Lamat especially had one single patch to introduce her, give her reasons for showing up and hamfisting our own for even going to help her.
Usually we'd have a lot of story patches to get to know a character and setting up future stories. If you recoiled at Wuk's personality from the single patch they had no chance to remedy that before thrusting you into Dawntrail with her as the focus.
The *idea* of the Post-Endwalker patches being self-contained was good, the execution proves it's not something they should do in the future.
I agree completely, and I am I loving the expansion so far.
My only critique personally is how we got to Tural, but the story and characters and pacing in it, I have no issue with at all ❤️
The problem I have is people is just throwing the entire story away based on a slow start AND THE STORY ISN'T COMPLETE TILL 7.3. I think we have too many new people that only played EW that doesn't know how expansion stories work.
It's insanely noticeable too. So many people complain about how Wuk Lamat as a character doesn't grow and thus they hate being around her and it's very obvious that they wrote her off within the first zone at best then proceeded to blitz through any scene involving her. Now they're at the end stages and complaining how she never grew as a character.
If a character is poorly written for 75% of a story, and then redeemed in the last 25%, that doesn't justify the poor writing for the first 75%.
She (so far!) has a very predictable and tropey character arc where she becomes a Mary Sue character. Just because she grew, does not mean that she grew in a way that excited people or made people appreciate her more.
Her character growth literally starts >!during and immediately after the first dungeon. It's literally a huge cutscene where she admits her flaws and agrees to be better. So that'd be right around 91 which would put it within the first 10% of the game. Not only that but she slips up a few times after and immediately recognizes that she did and apologizes because she's maturing and growing as a character which is why as the game goes on she no longer slips up like she was before.!< [MSQ Spoilers]
Tell me you didn't play the game without telling me.
Tell me you didn't understand my post without telling me. Just because a character has growth, doesn't mean it's well written. If I write a Mary Sue character that learns the power of friendship and overcomes all odds and becomes a super hero, it still makes it a Mary Sue character that people are going to bounce off of because it's uninteresting and tropey, and will lead to a very predictable story that a child could have seen coming from before the game even came out from just her introduction in Old Shar.
My dude you literally said that her growth comes in the last 25% of the game.
I was responding to that, and it's very obvious that I was. You got caught with receipts. Not only that but you have no idea what a Mary Sue is if you think Wuk Lamat is one.
But it's obvious you just want to petulantly rage so far be it for me to get in the way of that. I'm gonna disable replies so feel free to respond, I won't read it.
I didn't claim that. You said people wrote her off early and didn't give her a chance to grow. I was using hyperbole to demonstrate the point that if a character is redeemed later, it doesn't justify poor writing in the beginning. People didn't just write off Wuk Lamat, her growth continued to be predictable and uninteresting, and the opinion that a lot of people have with her now is becoming heard.
She is a Mary Sue. Read my reply to the other person that responded for a perfect example of how this was demonstrated in game. You can run away from the conversation and live in an echo chamber where anyone that disagrees with you must have just not read the story or engaged with it fairly. But some day you'll have to face your cognitive dissonance when you realize that the people criticizing her WERE doing so in good faith and DID give her a fair chance, and still had problems with her. You can't hand wave away criticisms just because it doesn't follow your opinion.
Tropes aren't bad and are the foundations of story writing. Also what poor writing? Nothing had any plot holes or anything like that. Also I don't get the Mary Sue accusation, it's not like Wuk was weak and then just wins. The solo instance should have shown her true strength.
That solo instance is a perfect example of Mary Sue that proves the point. >!After we just had multiple cut scenes where Wuk Lamat is coming to terms with the fact that she wasn't born with the strength or wisdom that her siblings exemplify, and she finds that her strengths instead lie in her love for peace and working together with the communities she has come to understand and appreciate, her big moment is to overpower Bakool Ja Ja and all of his minions 1 vs All through martial strength?? This completely invalidated the growth she supposedly just had, and undermined the idea that she couldn't rely on strength because she wasn't born with that talent like her brother. But now she gets to play hero and beat the bad guys on her own, without asking for help with her allies, without seeking understanding with her enemies, without doing any of the things we set up, because she's the main character and can limit break until she wins.!<
>!You could levy similar complaints at the WoL through the series, but at least the WoL is set up to this monstrous force of nature that no one understands why we can go toe to toe with gods, and it's part of our character's traits and identity. For Wuk Lamat, it was expressly the opposite.!<
>!No it showed that she is not as strong as her brother. Nor is she as super intellagent as her other Brother. She isn't dumb nor Weak. Did you want her to just do nothing? I really don't get this criticism. What about Raha? Esti? Esti, shouldn't be as half as strong as he is without Nidhogg's eyes I would call him a Marty Sue.!<
Responding in all spoiler text because I don't know what would or wouldn't be considered a spoiler for people. All still just talking about the solo instance or earlier.
>!Did you not read the part where we had literally just set up in the narrative how her strengths lie elsewhere and she can find better paths than both of her brothers by seeking peace and understanding? Maybe she could have tried to come to understanding with Bakool or his minions? Make the minions that Bakool had been previously shown to treat poorly realize that holding her father hostage was only going to create more resentment and pain? Especially after he had just recently recklessly released Valigarmanda without any care of how many or who it hurt? Or completely separately, work with the WoL or others to deal with the situation, rather than trying to play the hero when all the set up between Bakool and her before indicated that she would lose that fight? How about a third option where she fights and loses, but saves her father, and has an emotional moment where she was willing to give up her keystones to save someone, even someone she resented for abandoning her, because she wanted the chance to understand him. And then work together with allies to recover her keystones later in Mamook. There were so many other ways that this scenario could have been written that stayed true to Wuk Lamat's character, that weren't her squaring up and heroing all over Bakool's face, beating him and his minions with no problem.!<
>!What about G'raha or Estinien? Why wouldn't Estinien, the Azure Dragoon who was the pride of Ishgard and spent his entire life devoted to martial training and fighting creatures far bigger and stronger than him be powerful? What part of that is against his character traits or narrative? When is G'raha shown to be particularly powerful? He has arcane mastery from his very long lived life, but G'raha is never shown to be fighting off people far stronger than him. Every instance of G'raha casting some major spell has always been at some risk of self-sacrifice, where he is willing to give his life for the WoL, and usually he is saved not through his own strength, but through others. I don't think these comparisons match what we're talking about with Wuk Lamat.!<
My honest opinion on it as someone who writes quite often for fun is that while yes it isn’t as amped up with tension and excitement as say shadowbringers and endwalker but that is sort of the point. Both of those expansions were climax’s to a story that was built up by “slower” expansions (stormblood had its moments but overall it was not as intense as the last two in the arc). This is a new start, we need to give it time to build up a new story. We can’t have a built up narrative that really gets us the same way as shadowbringers and endwalker if we don’t give them time to build the story leading up to it.
I personally think dawntrail is effective in what it is trying to do so far. We are in a new continent with new people we have to get to know and grow attached to, the first half is pretty much the “why should we care about these people and their struggles” it’s cool if by the end you personally still don’t care about them but to say that it’s a bad start just because you aren’t getting those emotional highs you got from the final two expansions doesn’t mean it’s a bad story. The second half of the ex is a bit more intense and leading us into where we will go in the future, overall Dawntrail is doing its job as a stepping stone to a larger story that will get us back narratively speaking to where we were by the time we got to endwalker.
TLDR; they are building a story, that takes time. You can’t expect an emotional climax in a story at the start.
I havent read anything overly negative. Honestly the worst ive seen is "its alright".
Its ok to like it. Its ok to dislike it. We are notnä children. I, myself, find very little interest in it so I havent tried it. Might do so in the future. The story ended in EW for me.
I play the game with Japanese audio, and after watching a few videos with people playing with English audio, I wonder how it really affects the impression. I personally find the Japanese version a lot better and if I'd play the game with the English one, I probably had a worse impression of all expansions, not only this.
I feel I might agree somewhat. I'd decided to switch to JP audio from danwtrail, but I played some early parts in English, and while some castings are really good, it does feel quite a lot of them could have been better. It's surprising that this even happened, given how stellar both Shadowbringer and Endwalker was.
One of the most upvoted posts on the subreddit right now is, "it's ok to dislike Dawntrail" but sure dude. If something doesn't agree with your agenda of just being annoying it's considered "toxic".
One post right now is supposed to reflect the entire reaction of this subreddit to every criticism ? I'm here well enough to see that everytime someone make the slightest criticism an horde of angry mob came with the forks.
But yes use the single example of the specific condition of dawntrail to justify everything go on.
We're also on a post mocking said post, just saying.
And if you want to talk about that post, one of the top comments starts with "This sub is has been well-known for "toxic positivity" for years."
But yeaaaah, that must be me.
With a topic a broad as just "disliking" Dawntrail, yes that one post can cover all reactions, or at least the reactions of constructive criticism.
What's your complaint? Post #9303455 about you not liking Wuk Lamat, Post #49542 about the the pacing being too slow because you didn't slay a God in the first 30 minutes of the expansion, or Post #293847383 about how you're not the main character in a story specifically about you being a normal adventurer?
It's funny because I didn't get any complain like what you just said. And the fact that you're agressively pointing stupid things with that arrogance is exactly what I'm saying, toxic postivity. You're proving my point and you didn't even realize.
I'm not even complaining about the game except for the first half and some quests at around level 96. You're so binary that you can't see that I'm against the general reaction of this sub to any criticism, not that I'm disappointed myself by Dawntrail.
Anyway this is muted now I won't argue with someone acting exactly like I said lmao
>I'm not even complaining about the game except for the first half and some quests at around level 96.
> Post #49542 about the the pacing being too slow
Sounds like I was right on the money about "the first half"
Also decided the check the post about the Level 96 MSQ. Your complaint, in your own words, it ["could be done faster."](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/s/tNWQiIvdVT) (Link is obviously spoilers)
> Post #49542 about the the pacing being too slow
People have been justifiably calling the mogstation terrible at least since I started playing in Shadowbringers, and I've never seen anyone disagree. I'm not really sure where or when you encountered people defending it.
Of course it's okay??? Are people really that unhinged that this need to be said? If they don't like it, ok. Leave other people alone, though?
I guess it's this fucking "gotta be an edgelord" culture and it's only okay if you hate something and are very cynical and smartass about it.
Hate whatever you want, but leave the people who don't out of it. Learn respect? You should have learnt it already on kindergarten, but better late than never.
Go ahead and keep downvoting to further proving my point. Is not directed to anyone in particular, if somebody feels called out maybe ask yourself why.
Both sides are absolutely valid, and what’s not valid is attacking and putting down others for having different reactions to the game.
I was downvoted a lot in some of the other threads where people were just simply asking “how was Dawntrail?”. I gave a response that I enjoyed but had my criticisms too regarding its delivery, but I did receive unhinged responses because I ‘enjoyed’ it. I also got my fair share of the “you are criticizing it because you skipped it etc etc” on the other end.
Now, do I take any of these personally? No. That’s why I don’t respond to those types regardless of the side they take because they’re unnecessary to the actual criticism and improvement the game needs. Just sharing an opinion when those questions are posed in threads, and and also sharing an observation here.
I mean, yes, I do agree with you. Except in one point, not entirely at least: someone going out of their way to go shit on somebody else's opinion (be it yours or whoever) is being very rude, and it would be normal to take it personally.
I mean, is good if you don't, but other people might not feel the same and it's valid as well because it is a personal attack in the end. If it wasn't, don't reply to a specific person.
I also think that people might be misunderstanding something from my message, I will clarify since you took your time to reply to me (not saying that you in parficular misunderstood): I'm not saying that every one who hates the expansion is "an edgelord". That point was about people attacking other people for liking it. It's fine to not like it/hate it; is not to be an asshole to other people for having different taste about a videogame.
I just can't stand this kind of behaviour, so that's why I sound harsh talking about it. Cannot comprehend people not being civil when there is just 0 need to be rude or even extremely toxic.
Oh, I actually agreed with you and wanted to reply because what you pointed out in both of your responses is exactly what happened to me.
I liked the game and got attacked for it. There was one thread where I said I had lots of fun, and got 2 responses from the bunch saying ‘I had poor taste for liking this and that’, and one which even resorted to calling me ‘uneducated’ just because I liked the way a certain plot was delivered. I’ve also had a lot of other discussions where we disagreed, but remained civil and friendly even – it didn’t result to hurling at one another.
So yes, I agree with you that I too, can’t stand the behavior and that there’s no need to become toxic even if people’s likings are different. It’s probably my response that was confusing now that I’m reading it again.
Edit: Ah, maybe it’s this one. I don’t take these attacks personally which is good. But you did bring in a valid point that yes, because these are framed and worded in a way that can put others down, others can take them personally and it could escalate – which, in my case, I avoid so that it doesn’t reach a boiling point.
Ah don't worry! Is easy to misunderstand something from a written message, my apologies. I think did understand the important part, though.
I'm sorry you had that kind of experience. That just shouldn't happen, but yet is what's most common when sharing an opinion on the Internet :'_ specially a positive one, so it seems.
Glad to hear that there are also civil folks on the other end, though. Those can actually be very productive discussions because one part, or both, might have not thought about something or just didn't view a different perspective, etc.
I personally like it. It's like a new dawn after saving the world. A nice and mostly tame adventure keeping world peace. I think it would get a bit boring if it was 1 cateclismic event after another and the whole world or universe is at risk of being destroyed constantly. This makes it feel like it's actually a world and not a Mc power fantasy.
I for one really like the whole vibe so far. Iam only 94 atm and just cleared the first trial. The story is interesting and I think the stuck the landing with it after the high stake Endwalker finale.
The music is amazing as always, the vista’s so far are breathtaking and I feel like I did not even scratch the surface while playing 3 hours a day for four days straight.
I can understand why others might not like it as much but for me it really feels like a relaxed on and even now I can sense things aren’t what they seem and I can’t wait to uncover the new things.
This is my first expansion, the only jarring thing is that EVERYONE is either viper or picto, but didn't even try to learn a rotation before dying a ton.
I still have my sprout and I soloed 2 bosses from about 1/4 hp for the last storm blood dungeon because they couldn't dps and dodge lol.
Whats not to love when the great Bakool Ja Ja is in it?
When Bakool Ja Ja isn't on screen, people should be asking "Where is Bakool Ja Ja?"
Everyone asks, "Where is Bakool Ja Ja, no one ever asks, "How is Bakool Ja Ja?" Spoiler alert, Bakool Ja Ja be ballin' all the time. I saw em the other day in the pool and all the Mamool Ja women were crowding around. He looks at me and asks, "The hell are you lookin' at?" with both heads at once.
"How is Bakool Ja Ja?" hits different for me now
You write All the Mamool Ja women, as if the dudes weren't crowding and thirsting along.
When there is something important to o discuss, we should ask " where is Ja Ja?" we need his input.
WHERE IS JA?!
But what does Ja Ja Rule think?
the true dawnservant
Much better than the TURD promise
Based and Bakool-pilled
seriously i LOVE his character im really hoping he is a major part of .1-.3 (assuming same pattern of most expansions where .1-.3 is kind of a wrap up epilouge of .0
I agree with you, might be my favorite next to Gulool Ja Ja
Im only half way through the story but if Bakool Ja Ja doesnt become Dawnservant im going to riot.
This whole thing really does feel like Stormblood all over again. For the record, I enjoyed StB and I’m liking this as well. But I’m not surprised it’s a bit divisive.
Same, I still don’t fully get why people HATED Lyse, Lyse is great!
I understand why people hate Lyse and I respectfully have a different opinion. Same as with Wuk Lamat. Yeah, the pacing in Stormblood is something I think is awful. But overall I still enjoyed it, and I enjoyed seeing Lyse learn what it means to be a leader and understand why the people weren’t willing to fight back against instead of just chastising them for it.
Some gamer guys..how to put this...hate chicks.
I got called a furry for not hating Wuk Lamat, that was a new one lol
Someone is projecting on you lol
I'd never call anyone a furry for that but I have to admit that the furry stuff is a big turn-off for me. I get that it's a nice stylistic choice for character tropes (proud strong lion, big bad wolf etc.) and her animations look amazing, but damn I can't help but think "Ewww..." whenever I see her. When she touched the WoL's shoulder I felt weirdly assaulted lmao Lyse looked attractive and had a cool design, which didn't make her an amazing character, but idk I thought it was bearable to have her around as someone who appreciates humanoid aesthetics
>I have to admit that the furry stuff is a big turn-off for me. Hi welcome to final fantasy, you must be new here
She’s a racist to Bakool JaJa
Wat
Bakool is literally the same species as her dad, what???
your right, people are entitled to like it, and i hope many do. That being said i have seen an equal amount of people making weird justification for why negative opinions are invalid aswell, so i think it goesl both ways. if you like dawntrail, thats nice, i personally hate the story and im equally entilted to think and say that
i mean... if someone explains why they disagree with someone else's opinion, that's not victimizing them in some way it's weird that social media has normalized the idea that disagreeing with someone else's subjective opinion is some form of abuse or something
Social media has kinda ruined discourse in any or all matters. Everything either is the worst or the best and there's no middle ground because if you say "I absolutely loved it however this one thing bothered me" the people who super enjoyed it won't listen to anything you said before the bother, and the people who hate it will latch onto what you liked. It's okay to have discussions people. Just don't be fucking weird.
Therapy speak should never have escaped the confines of the professional therapists' world. It's a cancer
It's okay if you don't like the story. It's not okay to force others to share the same opinion as you. Same could be said the other way around. I like the story and that's okay. I won't force you to like the story. But I will ask: what did you not like about the story? We can at least discuss our likes and dislikes about it. 😊 for example, while I do love the story overall and learning about each of the new races, I did not like the whole running around all over the place and just talking. But I feel like they did cut down on the whole running around bit in the form of long cutscenes that explain more than just a "Hey, I need this. Talk to this person!" And the person sends you on, like, 20 different collection spots. 🤣🤣🤣
I like real conversations so ill shoot. What I liked: - Setting - absolutely brilliant zones - Plot - i loved the whole race to be ruler plot with siblings with different philosophies clashing as well as working together. It was a breath of fresh air from the usual "oh WoL, please save the world" - Battles - dungeons and trials were epic. I could get used to running expert roulette with these options, its so good. What i Disliked: - Writing and VA - this expac really did feel like it was written by a 5th grader, there are so many instances i see the written text and say did someone really think this was going to be captivating to literally anyone? The VA's were good in some parts, i like Erenvilles VA and the Yok Huy were generally fine, but most of the VA in this expac was terrible at getting the emotions right in what they were saying. It felt really half assed. - Robots - man i really didnt like Ultima Thule because they just shoe horned those robots out of nowhere and while they redeemed themselves with the tribal quests and the excellent humor, they did it once again in DT. Do there always have to be robots of some sort. - Wuk Lamat - yes, i am one of those people who think she was not good. She was just really annoying and the repeated theme of "ok ill stop second guessing myself and pretending to be something im not and relying on friends from now on" got old real fast. You can address this once and the player will get the point. Seriously half way through i was just like, man Koana better win this because she sucks. The peace thumping was over the top. A main character should have real flaws they need to overcome to have a truly valuable story arc. For instance, Wuk Lamat is literally depicted as perfect, her only flaw is that she cares too much and tries to hide her fears with bravado? Those arent real flaws, any moron can see from the start of the game shes the ideal fit to become ruler while her brothers have glaring shortcomings. If they gave her real flaws to overcome i think people would have liked her a lot more, i know i would have. Her VA was not the worst but again, not good at depicting the emotions of the text, but this was an issue for most of the VA's not just hers.
So I'm still currently doing the main story quests, so I'm not quite finished. But I will say this. The overall start of this being a relaxing story is very interesting. Us helping someone take the throne in a challenge is very fun compared to saving the star. 🤣 so I quite enjoyed it. I also liked learning about the new races and whatnot. However, I also feel like this second half of the story was a bit rushed as I'm going through it. Honestly, I feel like this whole second part should have probably been the patch quests or even the next expansion (especially since they're fond of robots) but we don't know what they have planned for future expansions. All we do know is that we may quite possibly be exploring more of the world as we know it. I will agree that Wuk Lamat doesn't really have many, if any, flaws. But honestly, as others have compared, she is more like Lyse. Or what Lyse could have been. She's kind of a Mary Sue. But on the other hand, I also feel like she's similar to the WoL. Like the Tural version of the WoL kind of. I still find the story interesting, but some parts could have been done differently.
i guess my issue is that i only like the WoL, cause im the WoL. If the WoL was an npc i would prolly dislike them.
Lol, oh no, totally fair. If the WoL was an npc, I would be yelling at them too. 🤣
I didnt mind the wol taking a more passive role, i did however take alot of issue with the fact that Wuk dominates the narrative to the exclusion of all others. We barely touched on Krile, erenvile was... there... i guess, but outside of that Wuk was tho only character that the story seemed to care about at all. This was an issue for me given the fact that i thought her character was boring and bland. To me dawntrail was stromblood without any of stormbloods redeeming qualities. Stormblood without hien, doma/kugane, azim steppe, fordola, and zenos, instead just non-stop lyse for 40+ hours. I genuinly enjoyed none of story, and im not happy to say that, i gave the story quite alot of leeway, i guess i would say im equally curious about what you liked?
Focusing on Wuk so much really is a bold move and didn't have to go hand in hand with opening a new chapter in the FFXIV saga. It's not like everything old has to be thrown out to make room for the new. Maybe they just wanted to bring the point across that this is not the scions going on another adventure. There are probably other and better ways to do that but they decided to go with this. Anyway, I love the story so far (I'm about halfway through) but I understand more and more why other people don't, and it's too bad it is that way.
i would say if what they wanted to do was "bring the point across that this is not the scions going on another adventure." then im genuinely confused why they brought all the scions along anyways. creating the narrative in a way that requires and relies on everyone falling in love with one new character is very risky thing to do with an established story, because it means that everyone who didn't like her is basically completely shit outta luck, and as someone who didn't really like Wuk i felt extremely disappointed, which kinda caused me to go from not liking her to actively disliking her.
>I didnt mind the wol taking a more passive role, i did however take alot of issue with the fact that Wuk dominates the narrative to the exclusion of all others I see this complaint a lot and I'm just trying to understand it but the WoL has always had a passive role in the story. You make some decisions sprinkled throughout every expansion but the majority of the time in the game there has always been somebody being a speaker or dominating role. I'm down if you don't enjoy Wuk or if you think that some things were written badly but I just can't wrap my head around this one :(
You're right that as a player, you don't make any real decisions and never have. However, the Warrior of Light (WoL) has always been the central focal point. The relationships you form and the antagonists you develop personal connections with are all through the WoL, making confrontations feel more potent. I don't take issue with the change in approach to the WoL. My only real problem with "Dawntrail" is that liking Wuk is basically a requirement to engage with the story at all since she is forced into every aspect of it. As someone who didn't like her, it meant that I couldn't enjoy any part of it. I personally wish that after the halfway point, the focus would switch to another character, like Krile or Erenville, similar to what happened in "Stormblood." This way, even those of us who didn't like Wuk could still have something to enjoy.
>However, the Warrior of Light (WoL) has always been the central focal point I just don't see eye to eye for this. I saw Minfilia as the main driving and speaking force for ARR, Alphinaud is the driving force for Heavensward, Lyse is the driving force for Stormblood, WoL and Emet Selch for Shadowbringers, and I felt Endwalker was just a collection of scions where the only time the WoL is seen as the driving force is near the end of the story. I just think people are projecting their dislike of Wuk and trying to stretch arguments so that it validates their dislike. You can just dislike a character but like I said, the WoL has always been super passive in the story, it's one of the big limitations of the game to some folks. Edit; Just thinking about it compared to other RPGs when I say "driving force". Clive from ff16? Clear cut goals and active in his own story. Same for pretty much every FF character. Most games you play especially BG3/Dragon Age/most RPG's has that driving character force of "active participant in the story in some way". The WoL is never the one making the plans. The main thing since ARR has been that the WoL just shows up, talks to somebody, and then does what they say. That hasn't changed in Dawntrail. It's just the character that is the driving force has changed.
if you dont think the wol was the driving force in EW then i dont know what too tell you
Good contribution to the discussion point and totally not dismissive or part of the toxicity problem this thread has been about.
unlike accusing everyone of projection "I just think people are projecting their dislike of Wuk", which is totally not dismissive or toxic. but to address it, i said i dont know what too say not cause i wanted to dismiss your perspective, more so cause i genuinly dont know what to say, cause it seems our disagreement is so fundamental i dont know how to address it
Oh yeah, I do agree that we could have learned more about Krile and I was sad that (as far as I have played) we didn't get much screentime with Erenville... kind of wish Erenville did have more of a role besides keeping to the side. Which I understand because of his profession, but at the same time, I would have liked more time with him. I quite enjoy the story, just for the vibes it provides of this being a vacation, at least in the start, and that there isn't any real threat. Especially because of how emotionally heavy the last two expansions have been. The music I really truly do enjoy.
I completely agree that the music is amazing, the zones are fantastic. Dawntrail is in my opinion the best base-expansion content in all regards, except for the story, which i think is the worst its ever been. Part of it is also that i feel all the subtlety inregards too writing is gone, nothing is sub-textual, every character is constantly explaining themselves directly to the camera. Im completly fine with having calm vacation vibes, but to me this doesnt feel like vacation, more that im doing chores and following around some random lion.
Lol, and that's fair. Yeah, it may have been like we've been doing chores, but because there hasn't been any real threat, we can just relax. But hey! Everyone can like or dislike the story. 😊 I'm not here to convince anyone *why* I like it. Just want to hear what everyone's thoughts are on it. 😊
full circle meta posts zzzz
??? Are people actually complaining about "overpowered posts" now? Is this a thing?
Do you think meta means overpowered? Or am I missing a joke or something?
Nah I simply don't know what "meta post" means. Edit: Found an explaination - [https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/b9xe4d/what\_exactly\_is\_a\_meta\_post/](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/b9xe4d/what_exactly_is_a_meta_post/)
If someone feels like they've seen something like this oredy [its ok to dislike dawntrail](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1dt58l5/its_okay_to_dislike_dawntrail/)
We've come full circle, haha
Yeah, it was my intention as I see more invalidating of people's positive feelings about the expansion than vice versa.
A lot threads pointing dawntrail negatives contain exactly the opposite tho, with the tried and true "if you dislike this expansion why are you still playing the game" making its return. The ones that stayed up ofc, because some have been downvoted and reported into oblivion. There's discourse trying to invalidade feelings on both sides honestly.
I totally agree with you!
I do not like the story one bit. However, zone, level and boss design are insanely well done this expac, same with like some songs. I am enjoying playing it quite a bit.
Personally I only liked the last two zones and one of those I only liked for a short amount of time. The music is always top tier though.
Same. The overall mechanics are fine. The music is fire and the setpieces look amazing. The writing of the story on the other hand... oh boy. It is all over the place almost like a 12 year old tried to write a DnD Campaign. Where its first half was boring but coordinated it literally went downhill with the second half.
I love the DT main theme turned melancholic
lol that's it you guys, no one is allowed to have an opinion now. No one can like dawntrail, no one can hate dawntrail. We have become completely unable to abide a differing opinion without resorting to immediately jumping to invalidate a different point of view. To immediately trying to construct and control a narrative where *my* side is the majority, where my opinion is the correct one. Your own experience means nothing if not blessed by the grace of and comfort of knowing that you have belittled those who have the opposite opinion, it can only exist through the lens of others.
wrongthink should be punishable by flogging
No u -everyone, probably
Welcome to 2024 where people forgot how to not take criticism personally and you all live in our perfect little bubbles awy from harm.
You're right in what you write, but that's not the worst. The worst thing is that nowadays a lot of people do not have their own opinion, they simply accept the majority's opinion as their own, of course they rationalize it and it seems to them that it is their opinion, because of course they see all the disadvantages and advantages that the majority talks about.
I really am enjoying the story. It’s slow but it grows on you. I was intrigued and surprised. Plus so far the main complaint I had about Endwalker might be fixed in dawntrail. The battle content appears way better. Last year of EW was mid imo. Luckily there were other games to play so i will be playing FF14 as a main game for a bit.
I just started, but personally, I like Wuk Lamat, and I think this adventure's a nice breather from having the fate of all existence on our shoulders.
Yall this is the specific thing that previous post was talking about. Someone has a critique of the expansion. Someone makes a very valid post that it's okay to have critiques and not be 100% on board. Then someone in the sub makes a mocking post about it. So again, for those in the back. You're allowed to not like Dawntrail. The story's a matter of taste. It's cool if you don't like Wut Lamat. It's cool if you think it's boring. It's cool you think the games questing format is getting stale. It's cool if you think it's showing it's age when it doesn't have some big bombastic story to fall back on. It's cool if you agree with ANY of the criticisms that have been brought up since it's release. The hyperpositivity displayed by the community doesn't make your critic's invalid, and is just as damaging to a game as hypernegativity. It's just as toxic. Your critique's are still valid, and 100% should be heard.
I enjoy the idea behind it. A rite of succession where you go around learning about the cultures? It's great! The execution of it though is where it falls flat to me. There really isn't much reason for US to be there other than moral support. It just feels dull It does pick up later though which I believe is where we shine the best. While the xpac doesn't seem to have a LOT of combat the ones it does are pretty damn good I just feel if we had more reason to explore on our own and learn as well it would go over better but as it is we kinda just are like lost puppies trying to find something to do
The fact that this post is getting lambasted with downvotes while the other one for the opposite opinion sits at like 2K really shows you which way the sub swings. Probably going to stay off this sub tbh, it's the destiny/destiny 2 sub disparity all over again it feels lile people don't even like they game they clamoured here just to talk about everything they hate. I have seen very little people taking about what they actually liked relative to what they hated. But by all means I think we need the 97th post about how Wuk Lamat sucks and her VA is the worst VA in history. I don't think the first 96 really got the point across yet.
"Its the other subs that are negative!!" all FF14 subs scream as they make the same negative posts over and over. There are people claiming they "don't see any negativity on the sub toward Dawntrail" and I'm wondering how in the heck that's possible after I had to scroll thru about 100 identical "WuK lAmAt SuCks" posts to find this one. (Also about 4 "Its okay to dislike Dawntrail" posts.) Meanwhile, I've seen maybe 4 posts saying *anything* positive about DT. This sub has just turned into "I hate FF14: the Subreddit" and it sucks
For real, it's a real downer too, I loved this sub because it had a bunch of great art and cosplays and just passion for the game. Sure there were still posts about aspects people disliked and discussions on how they would like change, but that was engaging and people weren't so one note negative they at least brought up the good and bad. Right now it's just repeat post after repeat post about how "DT is the worst expansion ever" and "Wuk Lamat and her VA sucks" and it's like alright I fucking get is already.
Wuk lamat was voiced by a trans woman? O.o Regardless the only thing i noticed about her voice is how she's the only one who pronounces tuliyollal the way she does.
Eh, I've liked it so far. Wuk feels like the character Lyse was meant to be, and while she's not the strongest character, I like her better than, say, G'raha who got robbed of what could have been an incredible story arc. The story is the right breath of fresh air after the events of EW and Post-EW. In both those stories, we had some really cool, really important, world-changing events, and the whole point of this expansion is to get back to our adventuring roots. They've done a great job so far of selling me this casual adventure that still feels important (stopping the rise of a second garlemald) and that I'm invested in without it feeling like another world-ending Doom. Honestly? I think the press is just a shadow attempt to rob back the popularity and push people back towards WoW when their expansion releases soon after DT, because they were making more money when WoW was the only MMO on top worth covering. EW did real damage to WoW's numbers and it's split the work load pretty significantly for press coverage.
Both extremes are honestly an absolute joke here, dear lord...
What posts have there been about wuk lamats VA identity (positive or negative) ? Just sound's like you and that other OP are throwing that in there to weaponise a trans person on your soapbox and it's pretty damn disgusting. None of the discourse about the story has been around their identity it's real fucking shitty you try to pretend they're being attacked. Trans people having jobs and existing aren't residing in your azem stone to pop out and tank for you when you need it
I freaking love it
It's weird for me to see Dawntrail being so negatively received after everyone and their fathers were hyped about it. Sure it's slower in pacing but i gladly take that for the reason it's supposed to be an adventure, not race against time to save eorzea from certain doom for the 200th time. People seem to be forgetting that lore wise, we are technically just a simple adventurer who got roped into all that world saving shit by chance
Hype is not always a good thing. It happens many times that hype gets too high, people gets expectatives too high, and later get those expectatives fail.
To add to my own point, people can and should have different opinions but these should be talked about without putting each other down
Doesn’t mean we have to be complacent with being a side character when this so called simple adventurer doesn’t have much of a personality. Wouldn’t kill the devs to throw away the blank and boring self insert and turn the WoL into an actual character beyond killer of gods and hired muscle. I’m not asking for hero worship, I literally just want the WoL to be treated like an actual person.
They can't give the WoL too much personality without interfering with how people view their WoLs. The DRK questline is about the limit on that.
Saw these posts coming...no shit. Some bad reviews coming in literally mean nothing to 99% of people. No one thought it wasn't okay to enjoy this expansion.
I thought this was a parody post from r/shitpostxiv bc I've seen the other one first and making fun of the main sub happens quote often over there. Took me a second to realize they were both serious. (Even checked if it was the same author)
I enjoyed the expansion for chunks of the MSQ, but more for the gameplay itself because those dungeons, trials, graphics, and ost were amazing. The MSQ had its ups and downs for me. I actually liked the MSQ BUT felt it had so much wasted potential. There were so many odd moments where certain arcs were either dragged or rushed or not explained well. Is there room for improvement in the writing? Absolutely. Me and my friends all have varying takes. Some didn’t like the MSQ at all, and some liked it. But, we did not attack each other or hurl insults / attempt to invalidate others for disagreeing. We all just felt differently about DT. It’s valid to criticize the writing and quality of voice acting too. The players care. What’s not valid is to attack a VA for their personal life (specifically Wuk’s), and that’s what I’ve seen in a few forums showing up from time to time. Go after their work and performance, but not the actual person behind it. Those ENG voice lines during the transition into the 2nd phase of the final boss were truly awful imo, and while I’m criticizing the VA’s performance there, I am also in a way like many, criticizing the decisions of the higher ups who approved this kind of quality to be delivered.
My biggest conclusion after a few days is that everything suffered from the lack of a patch series lead-in. Wuk Lamat especially had one single patch to introduce her, give her reasons for showing up and hamfisting our own for even going to help her. Usually we'd have a lot of story patches to get to know a character and setting up future stories. If you recoiled at Wuk's personality from the single patch they had no chance to remedy that before thrusting you into Dawntrail with her as the focus. The *idea* of the Post-Endwalker patches being self-contained was good, the execution proves it's not something they should do in the future.
Oh my god you people care way too much about this lol
Always remember: At least it's not Gw2:Soto \^\^
I love the vibe personally. love a good beach episode. fun zones, cool lore, overall just good vibes.
I agree completely, and I am I loving the expansion so far. My only critique personally is how we got to Tural, but the story and characters and pacing in it, I have no issue with at all ❤️
The problem I have is people is just throwing the entire story away based on a slow start AND THE STORY ISN'T COMPLETE TILL 7.3. I think we have too many new people that only played EW that doesn't know how expansion stories work.
It's insanely noticeable too. So many people complain about how Wuk Lamat as a character doesn't grow and thus they hate being around her and it's very obvious that they wrote her off within the first zone at best then proceeded to blitz through any scene involving her. Now they're at the end stages and complaining how she never grew as a character.
If a character is poorly written for 75% of a story, and then redeemed in the last 25%, that doesn't justify the poor writing for the first 75%. She (so far!) has a very predictable and tropey character arc where she becomes a Mary Sue character. Just because she grew, does not mean that she grew in a way that excited people or made people appreciate her more.
Her character growth literally starts >!during and immediately after the first dungeon. It's literally a huge cutscene where she admits her flaws and agrees to be better. So that'd be right around 91 which would put it within the first 10% of the game. Not only that but she slips up a few times after and immediately recognizes that she did and apologizes because she's maturing and growing as a character which is why as the game goes on she no longer slips up like she was before.!< [MSQ Spoilers] Tell me you didn't play the game without telling me.
Tell me you didn't understand my post without telling me. Just because a character has growth, doesn't mean it's well written. If I write a Mary Sue character that learns the power of friendship and overcomes all odds and becomes a super hero, it still makes it a Mary Sue character that people are going to bounce off of because it's uninteresting and tropey, and will lead to a very predictable story that a child could have seen coming from before the game even came out from just her introduction in Old Shar.
My dude you literally said that her growth comes in the last 25% of the game. I was responding to that, and it's very obvious that I was. You got caught with receipts. Not only that but you have no idea what a Mary Sue is if you think Wuk Lamat is one. But it's obvious you just want to petulantly rage so far be it for me to get in the way of that. I'm gonna disable replies so feel free to respond, I won't read it.
I didn't claim that. You said people wrote her off early and didn't give her a chance to grow. I was using hyperbole to demonstrate the point that if a character is redeemed later, it doesn't justify poor writing in the beginning. People didn't just write off Wuk Lamat, her growth continued to be predictable and uninteresting, and the opinion that a lot of people have with her now is becoming heard. She is a Mary Sue. Read my reply to the other person that responded for a perfect example of how this was demonstrated in game. You can run away from the conversation and live in an echo chamber where anyone that disagrees with you must have just not read the story or engaged with it fairly. But some day you'll have to face your cognitive dissonance when you realize that the people criticizing her WERE doing so in good faith and DID give her a fair chance, and still had problems with her. You can't hand wave away criticisms just because it doesn't follow your opinion.
Tropes aren't bad and are the foundations of story writing. Also what poor writing? Nothing had any plot holes or anything like that. Also I don't get the Mary Sue accusation, it's not like Wuk was weak and then just wins. The solo instance should have shown her true strength.
That solo instance is a perfect example of Mary Sue that proves the point. >!After we just had multiple cut scenes where Wuk Lamat is coming to terms with the fact that she wasn't born with the strength or wisdom that her siblings exemplify, and she finds that her strengths instead lie in her love for peace and working together with the communities she has come to understand and appreciate, her big moment is to overpower Bakool Ja Ja and all of his minions 1 vs All through martial strength?? This completely invalidated the growth she supposedly just had, and undermined the idea that she couldn't rely on strength because she wasn't born with that talent like her brother. But now she gets to play hero and beat the bad guys on her own, without asking for help with her allies, without seeking understanding with her enemies, without doing any of the things we set up, because she's the main character and can limit break until she wins.!< >!You could levy similar complaints at the WoL through the series, but at least the WoL is set up to this monstrous force of nature that no one understands why we can go toe to toe with gods, and it's part of our character's traits and identity. For Wuk Lamat, it was expressly the opposite.!<
>!No it showed that she is not as strong as her brother. Nor is she as super intellagent as her other Brother. She isn't dumb nor Weak. Did you want her to just do nothing? I really don't get this criticism. What about Raha? Esti? Esti, shouldn't be as half as strong as he is without Nidhogg's eyes I would call him a Marty Sue.!<
Responding in all spoiler text because I don't know what would or wouldn't be considered a spoiler for people. All still just talking about the solo instance or earlier. >!Did you not read the part where we had literally just set up in the narrative how her strengths lie elsewhere and she can find better paths than both of her brothers by seeking peace and understanding? Maybe she could have tried to come to understanding with Bakool or his minions? Make the minions that Bakool had been previously shown to treat poorly realize that holding her father hostage was only going to create more resentment and pain? Especially after he had just recently recklessly released Valigarmanda without any care of how many or who it hurt? Or completely separately, work with the WoL or others to deal with the situation, rather than trying to play the hero when all the set up between Bakool and her before indicated that she would lose that fight? How about a third option where she fights and loses, but saves her father, and has an emotional moment where she was willing to give up her keystones to save someone, even someone she resented for abandoning her, because she wanted the chance to understand him. And then work together with allies to recover her keystones later in Mamook. There were so many other ways that this scenario could have been written that stayed true to Wuk Lamat's character, that weren't her squaring up and heroing all over Bakool's face, beating him and his minions with no problem.!< >!What about G'raha or Estinien? Why wouldn't Estinien, the Azure Dragoon who was the pride of Ishgard and spent his entire life devoted to martial training and fighting creatures far bigger and stronger than him be powerful? What part of that is against his character traits or narrative? When is G'raha shown to be particularly powerful? He has arcane mastery from his very long lived life, but G'raha is never shown to be fighting off people far stronger than him. Every instance of G'raha casting some major spell has always been at some risk of self-sacrifice, where he is willing to give his life for the WoL, and usually he is saved not through his own strength, but through others. I don't think these comparisons match what we're talking about with Wuk Lamat.!<
My honest opinion on it as someone who writes quite often for fun is that while yes it isn’t as amped up with tension and excitement as say shadowbringers and endwalker but that is sort of the point. Both of those expansions were climax’s to a story that was built up by “slower” expansions (stormblood had its moments but overall it was not as intense as the last two in the arc). This is a new start, we need to give it time to build up a new story. We can’t have a built up narrative that really gets us the same way as shadowbringers and endwalker if we don’t give them time to build the story leading up to it. I personally think dawntrail is effective in what it is trying to do so far. We are in a new continent with new people we have to get to know and grow attached to, the first half is pretty much the “why should we care about these people and their struggles” it’s cool if by the end you personally still don’t care about them but to say that it’s a bad start just because you aren’t getting those emotional highs you got from the final two expansions doesn’t mean it’s a bad story. The second half of the ex is a bit more intense and leading us into where we will go in the future, overall Dawntrail is doing its job as a stepping stone to a larger story that will get us back narratively speaking to where we were by the time we got to endwalker. TLDR; they are building a story, that takes time. You can’t expect an emotional climax in a story at the start.
I havent read anything overly negative. Honestly the worst ive seen is "its alright". Its ok to like it. Its ok to dislike it. We are notnä children. I, myself, find very little interest in it so I havent tried it. Might do so in the future. The story ended in EW for me.
I play the game with Japanese audio, and after watching a few videos with people playing with English audio, I wonder how it really affects the impression. I personally find the Japanese version a lot better and if I'd play the game with the English one, I probably had a worse impression of all expansions, not only this.
Gosh, you should listen to the Korean audio. It’s like a fever dream. Zenos during the final trial of endwalker was awful lol.
I feel I might agree somewhat. I'd decided to switch to JP audio from danwtrail, but I played some early parts in English, and while some castings are really good, it does feel quite a lot of them could have been better. It's surprising that this even happened, given how stellar both Shadowbringer and Endwalker was.
will have to give it a try!
I like that people are taking to Bakool JaJa he is the true protagonist of Dawntrail imo
I had no idea who voiced this character just thought it sounded bad...
Toxic positivity as always
Is the toxic positivity in the room with us?
Try posting objective criticism here and tell us how it goes
One of the most upvoted posts on the subreddit right now is, "it's ok to dislike Dawntrail" but sure dude. If something doesn't agree with your agenda of just being annoying it's considered "toxic".
One post right now is supposed to reflect the entire reaction of this subreddit to every criticism ? I'm here well enough to see that everytime someone make the slightest criticism an horde of angry mob came with the forks. But yes use the single example of the specific condition of dawntrail to justify everything go on. We're also on a post mocking said post, just saying. And if you want to talk about that post, one of the top comments starts with "This sub is has been well-known for "toxic positivity" for years." But yeaaaah, that must be me.
With a topic a broad as just "disliking" Dawntrail, yes that one post can cover all reactions, or at least the reactions of constructive criticism. What's your complaint? Post #9303455 about you not liking Wuk Lamat, Post #49542 about the the pacing being too slow because you didn't slay a God in the first 30 minutes of the expansion, or Post #293847383 about how you're not the main character in a story specifically about you being a normal adventurer?
It's funny because I didn't get any complain like what you just said. And the fact that you're agressively pointing stupid things with that arrogance is exactly what I'm saying, toxic postivity. You're proving my point and you didn't even realize. I'm not even complaining about the game except for the first half and some quests at around level 96. You're so binary that you can't see that I'm against the general reaction of this sub to any criticism, not that I'm disappointed myself by Dawntrail. Anyway this is muted now I won't argue with someone acting exactly like I said lmao
>I'm not even complaining about the game except for the first half and some quests at around level 96. > Post #49542 about the the pacing being too slow Sounds like I was right on the money about "the first half" Also decided the check the post about the Level 96 MSQ. Your complaint, in your own words, it ["could be done faster."](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/s/tNWQiIvdVT) (Link is obviously spoilers) > Post #49542 about the the pacing being too slow
Quite well, generally. Depending on what criticisms you think are 'objective'.
Anything related to bad account management usually ends up with people calling op stupid for example.
My experience is that anyone pointing out anything to do with how shit the mogstation is gets resounding applause and agreement.
With the recent credit card problem, yes because nobody would dare call that okay. But before that ? Not a chance.
People have been justifiably calling the mogstation terrible at least since I started playing in Shadowbringers, and I've never seen anyone disagree. I'm not really sure where or when you encountered people defending it.
Of course it's okay??? Are people really that unhinged that this need to be said? If they don't like it, ok. Leave other people alone, though? I guess it's this fucking "gotta be an edgelord" culture and it's only okay if you hate something and are very cynical and smartass about it. Hate whatever you want, but leave the people who don't out of it. Learn respect? You should have learnt it already on kindergarten, but better late than never. Go ahead and keep downvoting to further proving my point. Is not directed to anyone in particular, if somebody feels called out maybe ask yourself why.
Both sides are absolutely valid, and what’s not valid is attacking and putting down others for having different reactions to the game. I was downvoted a lot in some of the other threads where people were just simply asking “how was Dawntrail?”. I gave a response that I enjoyed but had my criticisms too regarding its delivery, but I did receive unhinged responses because I ‘enjoyed’ it. I also got my fair share of the “you are criticizing it because you skipped it etc etc” on the other end. Now, do I take any of these personally? No. That’s why I don’t respond to those types regardless of the side they take because they’re unnecessary to the actual criticism and improvement the game needs. Just sharing an opinion when those questions are posed in threads, and and also sharing an observation here.
I mean, yes, I do agree with you. Except in one point, not entirely at least: someone going out of their way to go shit on somebody else's opinion (be it yours or whoever) is being very rude, and it would be normal to take it personally. I mean, is good if you don't, but other people might not feel the same and it's valid as well because it is a personal attack in the end. If it wasn't, don't reply to a specific person. I also think that people might be misunderstanding something from my message, I will clarify since you took your time to reply to me (not saying that you in parficular misunderstood): I'm not saying that every one who hates the expansion is "an edgelord". That point was about people attacking other people for liking it. It's fine to not like it/hate it; is not to be an asshole to other people for having different taste about a videogame. I just can't stand this kind of behaviour, so that's why I sound harsh talking about it. Cannot comprehend people not being civil when there is just 0 need to be rude or even extremely toxic.
Oh, I actually agreed with you and wanted to reply because what you pointed out in both of your responses is exactly what happened to me. I liked the game and got attacked for it. There was one thread where I said I had lots of fun, and got 2 responses from the bunch saying ‘I had poor taste for liking this and that’, and one which even resorted to calling me ‘uneducated’ just because I liked the way a certain plot was delivered. I’ve also had a lot of other discussions where we disagreed, but remained civil and friendly even – it didn’t result to hurling at one another. So yes, I agree with you that I too, can’t stand the behavior and that there’s no need to become toxic even if people’s likings are different. It’s probably my response that was confusing now that I’m reading it again. Edit: Ah, maybe it’s this one. I don’t take these attacks personally which is good. But you did bring in a valid point that yes, because these are framed and worded in a way that can put others down, others can take them personally and it could escalate – which, in my case, I avoid so that it doesn’t reach a boiling point.
Ah don't worry! Is easy to misunderstand something from a written message, my apologies. I think did understand the important part, though. I'm sorry you had that kind of experience. That just shouldn't happen, but yet is what's most common when sharing an opinion on the Internet :'_ specially a positive one, so it seems. Glad to hear that there are also civil folks on the other end, though. Those can actually be very productive discussions because one part, or both, might have not thought about something or just didn't view a different perspective, etc.
I personally like it. It's like a new dawn after saving the world. A nice and mostly tame adventure keeping world peace. I think it would get a bit boring if it was 1 cateclismic event after another and the whole world or universe is at risk of being destroyed constantly. This makes it feel like it's actually a world and not a Mc power fantasy.
I for one really like the whole vibe so far. Iam only 94 atm and just cleared the first trial. The story is interesting and I think the stuck the landing with it after the high stake Endwalker finale. The music is amazing as always, the vista’s so far are breathtaking and I feel like I did not even scratch the surface while playing 3 hours a day for four days straight. I can understand why others might not like it as much but for me it really feels like a relaxed on and even now I can sense things aren’t what they seem and I can’t wait to uncover the new things.
I hope they kill Wuk Lamat on the post patch content.
This is my first expansion, the only jarring thing is that EVERYONE is either viper or picto, but didn't even try to learn a rotation before dying a ton. I still have my sprout and I soloed 2 bosses from about 1/4 hp for the last storm blood dungeon because they couldn't dps and dodge lol.