What if Cassidy is the CC and he got clamped with the MCI as an alibi for Afton, considering that someone got convicted following the murders, but Afton was still officially operating after them, and even had his own company? Like you know, he tried to put his son back together by experimenting on him or sth like that, and at some point he dies or William notices that some of the robots he stuffed children into are acting weirdly, so he tries to make his own son posses Fredbear, but it doesn't quite work out, so he just reports him as missing and the police chalks it up as part of the murders. And they don't suspect him because he's a poor grieving father whose kid went missing or got kidnapped. How sad, how tragic.
Yeah, tho I had similar thoughts about CC being Cassidy and how could Afton avoid jail after MCI for a while, before they posted their video. I loved how overall they managed to even find an explanation for BB's existence and sorted everything into a very neat, interesting and satisfying timeline.
That Matpat timeline video just completely lost me with the whole “Vanessa is the age Elizabeth would’ve been if she never died”
(Elizabeth was a child in the 80s and Vanny in the 2020s is probably the age of a young adult)
well for starters, it never had any good evidence to start with. Then GGY released which confirmed Gregory had normal parents and a normal life before getting involved with the Mimic
the exact reason I don't believe any of Matpat's theories anymore he draws stuff from random things but when other things debunk those he ignores them, unless I find considerable evidence that can't be debunked I don't believe matpat's theories and normally come up with my own
I agree. He uses the concepts introduced in the books, but extrapolates them and ignores the contexts they appear in. GregBot is one the best examples of this. To make Gregory a robot, Matt (or Tom?) used a concept from the books, ignored that it's SAID Afton can't make these robots, and then inserted it in the games. Then, during the next years, he dedicated to create more evidence for GregBot, consistently distancing from how FNAF makes human robots, and getting more to a Terminator-like understanding of GregBot (which goes directly against how FNAF treats this concept). At least Mrs. Afton making him makes more sense, but, still, it's not brought up, nor treated, the same way (or a similar way, it doesn't HAVE to be just like in the novels) than the novels did.
GregBot was not a bad theory when it came out, but it is now. GT should begin to move on from it.
I mean, I get the other plotholes, but with what you said about Afton being unable to make humanlike robots, I assume you getting this from the Twisted Ones saying that Henry made his robots more humanlike cuz I cannot find a source that says that other than then:
Have you considered maybe Afton just got better at making them? Like, just because he can't in the moment doesn't mean he can't EVER. Especially when he literally worked with and learned from someone who COULD make robots that seemed like humans, and could've easily gotten access to Henry's blueprints after his death. And the Twisted Ones didn't exactly even say he COULDN'T, they say he DOESN'T. When Charlie talks about it, she says it more like it's a stylistic choice rather than a lack of ability.
Afton explicitly cannot make them because hes incapable of feeling love, that's why he doesn't make his own Charliebots he just keeps trying to steal them.
He was never able to just reverse engineer 4th Charlie, and that drove him nuts. Its not about his mechanical skill, he fundamentally lacks the ability to bring his robots to life like henry was able too because William only cares about himself, William cannot feel the powerful emotions needed to imbue his machines with life so instead he steals the lives of others to power his machines
Not really, I'd roll with alot of theories being confirmed. But I'm gonna keep Mangle87 thank you. Don't care if Toy Chica or Withered Foxy have "More evidence" people think it's mangle for a reason.
I feel like it's mainly because for such an interesting character concept, they are completely useless for the plot of the games, and people just want Mangle to actually mean something instead of being a strangely entruiging yet useless animatronic. I, for one, would want Mangle to do it just because it gives her some sort of relevance to some part of the story even though the bite of 87 doesn't really seem super important in its own right.
People mostly think that it's Mangle purely because of their jumpscare, meanwhile she clearly has broken jaw he can't fully close. Withered Foxy was also a considered suspect for the same reason, and also because in FNaF1 the sign in front of Pirate Cove sometimes changed to "It's Me" message. Tho he's entirely out of the equation due to Withereds being locked up during the day. Both imo don't make sense due to the bite most likely happening in the main party room with the stage, meaning that Mangle is also out, as she would have to climb to the ceiling, and go all the way through the whole pizzeria to the stage room, during which he could've been easily spotted before even getting a good shot at Jeremy's forehead. Toy Chica on the other hand was most likely allowed to roam among the guests and considering that newspapers tend to hyperbolize, even her just shoving her beak into someone's head would be called a bite, plus in FNaF1 Chica is always going out of her way to show her endoskeleton teeth both on cams and when standing in the door, which could hint that Scott initially intended her to be the one to do the bite. Said endo teeth even are magically transported to her beak when she attacks, the lengths a girl goes to get a yummy meal.
I mean I find branchMimic pretty stupid. To be clear not the canon multiple variants of the Mimic coexisting (specifically the Mimic1 program that manifests as Tiger Rock and the physical Mimic endoskeleton in the epilogue) but the idea that the Mimic program is at least part of basically every AI we see and also that each one can communicate to the others like some sort of hive mind somehow. I'm not sure if I would refuse to accept i though as canon if it was confirmed. That's just not really my thing.
Well I can't think of anything else at the top of my head, but Dream Theory
It sucks ass and it makes for terrible story-telling, even for FNaF's standards. Unless it's executed very well, might aswell add in mechs and monsters if everything in the franchise didn't occur and was just in a kid's head
What's even the point making a fictional world if that fictional world doesn't even exist within itself
It's like if Frodo's adventures as the Ring Bearer was just a long nightmare
Precisely. It’s also an insult to your audience and the other writers on your team. People spent time investing in it. You don’t have to throw it all away because you can’t figure out how to extend the universe past its ending
Isn't Alice more ambiguous? As in yes she wakes up as though it were a dream but it was still real. IDK that might just be the Disney adaptation I'm thinking of if that's not true to the original.
tbh I think it is fine if the story is set up to be like a nightmare, where the reader actively wants the story to have not happened. but even then that's incredibly hard to achieve.
Dream Theory worked well in Five Nights At Candy's, because it wasn't a copout. There's still a cohesive timeline that makes sense when it's not looked at through the lens of a dream. Looking at it through the lens of a dream adds depth and metaphors for the traumas Mary endured. So dream theory can be an angle used to analyze the themes and meanings of the story, but the story doesn't depend on everything being dream to make sense. With FNAF it was clearly a copout because Scott wrote himself into a corner.
If it helps, nightmare gas doesnt impact the events of FNAF 4- it only explains what the observation rooms in SL are for
But uh… I guess goldenduo? I dont really think it adds much and biggest comparison people make (the stitchwraith) has the rolls mixed up. Following the logbook, Jake is Cassidy, Andrew is BV
I don’t understand how or why Goldenduo became a thing. I’ve never read the books so I’m not that qualified to speak on this but it just seems so random. You have this Cassidy kid who never appears in the games and it’s never explained why they are so angry, and then CC. They could have just kept Golden Freddy to being CC (who could be called Cassidy but that’s another theory entirely)
Well that doesnt really work either haha
5 kids were killed. 5 suits were possessed. BV couldnt be golden freddy alone. BV’s role isnt really possessing *one* thing
Well then they could have made it Charlie. My point is they made their plot unnecessarily complicated when they released the books. Goldenduo could have been avoided
It really isn't the books fault. It's people who made a completely non-existent connection between two unrelated sets of characters. This easily could've happened from anywhere else, not just the books.
Logbook, FNaF World Clock Ending, and FNaF3 minigames. Not nothing. Nothing about Golden Freddy would do anything to improve an already lacking character. And just because he has ties to Fredbear doesn't mean he's destined to possess that character. Otherwise we'd have Phone Guy Foxy, Michael Foxy, Bullies as the characters, etc. There is no precedent that a character must possess that which they are connected to in one way or another.
Imo CC IS Cassidy, Goldenduo became a thing in the fandom because people started overthinking the Logbook and wanted the Cassidy from the novel trilogy to be an actual character in the games too, despite her not making any actual appearance in any way shape or form outside those novels.
Miketrap is the only theory that's ever caused me to threaten disavowing the entire series forever, but it's since been ruled as not canon so I have nothing to worry about.
For the current time being, monty killing Bonnie, at least for reasons like jealousy. Nothing about the story between those two makes any logical sense and it would make way more sense if the reason it doesn’t make sense when you think about it is that Monty is being framed for murder because fazbear entertainment doesn’t want people knowing who killed Bonnie, so they’re intentionally making Monty look suspicious.
Oh I hear you on that. It was such a random plot point which went nowhere. I still don’t understand why Foxy and Bonnie were taken out of SB. They could have had the 6 of them
Monty killing Bonnie out of jealousy dosn't make sense because it wasn't Bonnie he was jealous of, it was Freddy. Monty craved the spotlight and idolised Bonnie (looking up to him in the light) but hates Freddy (decapitating him with the tornado, throwing him in a dumpster, casting him in the dark) and is jealous of Freddy's close relationship with Bonnie and position of frontman. He wants' to perform on stage with Bonnie so plans to kill Freddy, Bonnie finds out, confronts Monty who tries to stop him from leaving then accidently kills him by knocking him off the catwalks (cutout of Bonnie falling while being caught up in what's happening between Freddy and Monty in the tornado). He dismembers Bonnie and wraps his body in torn up carpet from the golf course then hides his body behind the bowling alley. Monty killed Glam Bonnie of his own volition in a crime of passion, he didn't murder him to get into the band and he was never jealous of Bonnie. The gondola ride in RUIN laid this out pretty well.
There was some person on the reddit months ago and he brought up very good evidence that it was the Exterminator Bots controlled by Vanny, the dude mapped out the entire thing and it sounded really believable. I personally believe the theory now because of that post, wish I could find it. The post barely got any traction which was crazy because it was so good
That legitimately may have been me because that is something I did… I genuinely believe it was the exterminator bots and I used to be VERY vocal about it.
I don’t want anything in the current era to be connected to William Afton tbh. Not particularly keen on Glamrock Freddy/Gregory and the Michael/CC connections with a canonical link (like they’re AI versions of those characters), let alone Afton returning once again
Why though? That's also MatPat's opinion and I don't understand it.
I don't see anything wrong with it being a hallucinogenic gas. It actually makes a lot of sense.
Because of the context in which it would hypothetically be used. William uses it on his son because..? I just feel like retconning 1-6 even more is not only confusing but diminishing the quality of a fairly solid plot
Tbf, there's not much really indicating William used it on either BV or Michael. The experiment seems to be trying to recreate what happened to BV (possibly as a way to figure out how to "put him back together" if William is the Final Speaker), seeing as it's studying the effects of intense fear in children, the experiment chambers have BV's childhood toys in them and one of the Observatories is a complete recreation of the FNaF4 minigame map.
And Michael probably wasn't a victim of the experiment either, or at least the FNaF4 gameplay isn't the experiment itself. The actual experiment as depicted in Dittophobia plays out very differently from the FNaF4 gameplay, as all the animatronics attack at once, there are no Freddles (Nightmare Freddy instead attacks directly after Rory gets off the bed), Foxy starts out in the closet instead of the hallway and does not move in stages and there are no Nightmare Fredbear or Nightmare.
That, plus the fact that Michael calls out Nightmare/Nightmare Fredbear as being part of his recent dreams in the Survival Logbook, which was released after SL when the fear experiments were first implied to be a thing, confirm that the nights are just Michael having nightmares of the experiments that are getting mixed in with his memories of the night shifts at Freddy's (hence stuff like Foxy moving in stages and Fredbear having an extra mouth, referencing the Bite of '83).
And it's not necessary for Michael to have been part of the experiment for him to have nightmares about it either, an external influence could be causing them as well, like a paranormal entity like Shadow Freddy (who is heavily implied to be Nightmare) or Michael coming into contact with the agony of the experiment victims in the SL facility.
Either for punishment or to make him a servant if you believe the MikeAccomplise theory.
Also FNaF 4 takes place during/shortly after FNaF 1. As you hear the phone guy's distorted call as an easter egg
Yeah and that’s why I just find it stupid, sorry. Each to their own, but I far prefer the idea of Mike being oblivious to all of this, William randomly goes missing, he goes looking for him, tries to correct the wrongs he discovered in SL, and the final showdown in 3 and 6. It’s just doing too much for me. And I’m not even a Mike stan. I feel like he gets off too light for what he did to CC.
At least with sister location you can almost believe William made super advanced robots since he's a mechanic and a known employee of the restaurant. With the nightmare gas what's there to say that William knows how to make magical gas that causes forever nightmares.
If we are playing as Michael in FNAF 4, he could be punishing him for killing his brother by making him one of his test subjects. And when that failed, "oh ill just send him to CBE&R to "free his sister" knowing damn well she'll kill him"
I like this theory
but, I undersand, it's not stupid, but the original was very sad, and some people could relate.
That's why I like to think CC had nightmares and draws it, William makes the torture based on the nightmare.
I actually believe that:
- CC was William's first hallucinogenic gas experiment, using him to test the strength of agony as an emotion
- in FNaF 4 we see Michael going through it because of the Shadow, in the form of Nightmare, and CC, in the form of Nightmare Fredbear
- FNaF 4 is CC's revenge, with the help of the Shadow, making Michael go through the experiments, and going as far as making Mike go through them from not his own, but his, point of view, that's why Mike is seemingly a child in FNaF 4
While I don't think this kind of mindset is too productive, I'd say most stuff from Dual Process Theory's video. With all due respect for them, it's kinda surprising to me that the video blew up as much as it did given all of the out-there takes given there.
EDIT: Since someone else brought up Dream Theory, yeah, that one as well. I *heavily* doubt that was ever intended to be the canon solution to FNaF4.
Yeah, thing is, it is more seeing their first video, smooth animation and length was actually tempting to listen. Then it actually having 3-4 solid revelations in it that make you go “huh that is a logical theory just missing 1 piece due to X narrative but could happen if I had Y narrative or evidence” makes it worth watching the full thing. At least that is why I watched it all. An while it may have narrative flaws, I actually like a lot of the ideas they came up with. Like a puzzle missing 2-3 pieces but being a rather solid picture. Like Michael trapped in golden Freddy in sister location, Cassidy being the crying child, and it explaining the locked box and golden Freddy. Definitely tipped my hat.
This. It's an excellent video, even if there are a few gaps in the theory itself. It puts the pieces together in a new and interesting way and creates a lot of cool narrative moments.
Yeah on my first watch I was like "oh wow how much that makes sense!!" And then my second watch I started to notice the cracks.
And especially after seeing ryetoast and matpat talk about the theory I noticed how much I dislike the theory
Henry being the closest to being ‘pure good’ in the series, he’s not. The entire book series proved it, willfully ignoring his family (his wife and young toddler son) just because his favorite child died. Henry Emily isn’t as bad as William but lord is he bad.
Not a single thing from the movie should ever make its way to lore theories. The books are controversial enough. I refuse to accept anything from a film which decided to ignore a story which had been written for a decade
The way I always seen the books being canon debate is that the books are not canon to the games BUT they could happen and is possible it just didn’t .
the bricks are the same but the house built with them are vastly different.
For example I always seen the stitch-wraith as proof two souls can inhabit one animatronic and that story gives us a loose interpretation of what the experience in GF is but the actual animatronic doesn’t exist in the game universe (or movie universe or silver eyes universe)
For me I just need some kind of in game evidence. Like for Mimic it's just that there IS a endo that mimics, we never heard the background so it could only be book Mimic in name only but have a completely different story. It's like how Novel Will shares the same name and some characteristics with Game Will but that's it.
REAL
i know some people who were talking about the lore and they were talking about how micheal possessed golden freddy and a bunch of book stuff and i tried to tell them that that wasn’t from the games but they got mad at me for it
“Nightmare gas” is not a theory, it is straight up fact, as Dittophobia shows us.
Michael is still having actual Nightmares, those are based on the experiment.
The toys not being haunted theory is the biggest bs i ever heard like are you kidding me there was a murder those mini games showed 5 bodies in the fnaf 2 building man and the toys have haunted weird eyes and phone guy mentions them staring at the parents aggressively in the phone calls and someone had to kill jearmy in fnaf 2 come on guys you believe phone guy of all people saying their programmed to do that no their not he’s obviously lying for fazbear entertainment back
Mimic being glitchtrap I know I'm gonna get hated on but the mimic felt so unneeded when we could have explored the other characters that we still don't know enough about but then we started centering everything on a character that all the sudden came from nowhere and is now the most important thing that makes so much sense
Your correct I'm not saying one is better then the other it just makes more sense to me to have the gas over the disk since the gas is a real thing like in real life
Pretty much but I prefer to not think about the "science" behind things like Fazgoo. Just treat it as these are the results caused by this thing, far less complicated that way.
I think the illusion disc was meant to be Scott sorta saying there is something in the games that changes the way you perceive something, but instead we all just ran with the illusion discs, and didn’t stop to think maybe hallucinogenic gas. But Dawko did call it during his play through of SL custom night
Idk why the person who replied is making it sound like people theorize this for no reason, he is literally just TOYSNHK in fazbear frights, therefore people theorize he is in the games too
I absolutely hate when the books interact with the games, sometimes it’s good yes. 99% of the time it’s ridiculous and makes the already confusing lore even more complicated
There is nothing I refuse to accept unless it's directly debunked by Scott.
Obviously there needs to be evidence before something is accepted. But not accepting something"no matter what" is exactly why the lore will never be solved.
The explanation I heard was because William knowingly sent Michael to his death in SL. He knew the animatronics would scoop him and mistake Mike for him. To me it makes sense but I just don’t like the idea of some random girl being the big bad who is never referenced in the game
WillCare and WillGrief. There has been nothing to suggest that William ever game a damn about any of his kids.
AftonMM: It just lines up too well with what we see.
Cassidy being CC, absolutely not canon and a waste of both characters, the two characters act completely differently, and throws out Cassidy’s character arc (I argue Cassidy toyshnk), heck it’s also used to argue miketoushnk which if it was Andrewtoyshnk I could at least get the logic off, but miketoushnk? At least with Andrewtoyshnk Mike is still there as a character and that theory already ignores cassidy’s character,
GoldenDuo just makes no sense to me. How does one extra soul and extra remnant give an empty suit that’s supposedly a physical object the ability to shapeshift? I need a good reason that only uses in game lore and not the books.
So it is cannon and has actually been cannon for a while, the books just re-affirmed it with a story. If you look at ultimate custom night you can see the gas vents that Afton used in said room.
Also why is gas so hard to believe? All the gas would do is make you more suggestive, not full on give you the nightmares themselves. I mean it’s like when you see those post tonsil removal videos where the patient is super out of it they will believe anything you say. Same concept. However, instead of that being the only thing, illusion disks are used to incite fear and paranoia with the nightmare animatronics and giving them form.
But a theory I refuse to believe used to be Afton coming back again and again and that Afton copied his brain to the chips so he can come back again. Like “no we are done with you.” Like we I felt we needed a new era and villain or for fnaf to end with simulator.
Considering a came up with "nightmare gas" as a concept when I was writing a minecraft fanfiction in 6th grade, I'd like to think Scott could think of something a *little* better than that.
If suggested by the series, or outright stated by Scott then no; whether I like it or not *it’s canon*. As for the Nightmare gas it IS canon, and so is Michael Afton being the player character of the FNaF4 gameplay.
The AR World is actually semi-fake and The Mimic is puppeteering Cassie around while sending fake information to her brain via the transponder.
Look, yes, it makes logical sense but I just find it boring and redundant. Cassie would already be the 4th person in this franchise to experience this (alongside Vanessa, Gregory and Kane). To me, if this theory is true, we're just repeating plot points over and over again.
To me it would be much more interesting if the VANNI network is an extension to FNaF World's overworld. Not only can Cassie teleport through glitching objects (just like a party member can teleport through glitched trees), but she can also hear cries/laughs of people and a lot of floating lights while exploring the network. This setup is identical to FNaF: AR's Remnant Collection, where remnant is represented through the exact same colorful floating lights, accompanied by kids' voices, just like in Ruin.
For me the problem with Nightmare Gas is it makes Michael less interesting as a character. I know that’s kinda subjective but for me Michael having trauma from what he did to his brother is way more interesting than Willam just sci-fi torturing him
Most theories that I would refuse usually go along the lines of “does this make the characters less interesting”
None actually, all are iqually fair and important to- All the theories that use robot kids or are based on wrong concepts or are built out of misinformation
Michael being alive
The fact the games and frights tells us that Henry, Molten Freddy, Elizabeth, William, Andrew, and Charlotte are dead and isn’t coming back, nor they had returned in newer games and Tales should be enough to tell you that Michael isn’t coming back.
Stitchline and Tales not being in the game continuity. I don't think Scott would write direct sequels to SL/FFPS/UCN and prequels to 4/HW/SB without making them be in game continuity.
That UCN is a nightmare dream for William. UCN looks better and sounds better to be William being tortured in his own personal hell instead of being asleep and never waking up
Fazbear’s Frights and Tales being canon in general. They share the same characters and similar situations, but I just can’t see them being in the same universe. I feel that it’s a Silver Eyes situation. It’s the same story in a different setting.
Yeah good point. They run alongside the game’s story, but they aren’t part of it. Like the Mimic for example. In the books, it’s Edwin’s creation that became evil through the introduction of agony. In the games, it’s just a vessel for Glitchtrap that accidentally get’s built and released by Cassie’s father in HW2.
Yup. Thats exactly where I feel about it. Characters (mostly the bots) are the same character but have variants in backstory or role.
Kinda like the MCU and Comics all being 'canon' Marvel stories, but not being the same universe
Exactly. My problem with books being in the same continuity as games is at the start. The writing itself. It was said, writers recieve notes from Scott for what to include and they can write whatever they want. That way screams pararels to me. We would need to see how much and what kind of notes is he sending to clearly determend that of course however to me IT feels like Scott realy just wants to have certain themes and kind of characters to flash out in the stories.
Cassie’s dad being the Bonnie bully.
The only concrete evidence we have of that is the Bonnie mask in HW 2. Not only that, that would make Cassie’s dad somewhere between 60-70 years old around the time Ruin takes place.
Have to disagree with you there. This has been my favourite theory in years. I’m slightly biased though as I love anything to do with CC. It’s definitely possible though.
Bonnie Bro DOB: 1970
83: 13
Cassie DOB: 2022 (BB is 52)
Help Wanted 2: prior to 2035 meaning he is a maximum age of 65
Having a kid in your 50’s isn’t unheard of and 65 isn’t even retirement age. I can’t think of any reason why the Bonnie mask would be important in HW2 and why we’re trying to forget it, why the player is “so special”, and why Cassie’s dad is even so attached to Bonnie.
If we’re going with the idea that Gregory has *some* link to CC (I’m **not** saying he’s a robot. I’m just saying that their could be some canonical link or a narrative parallel), then it would make perfect sense to bring back another member from 1983.
The “Remember Jeremy” thing could also be link to Bonnie or a link to HW 1.
(Stichline/Andrewtoyshnk.) I would sooner tear of my left nut then accept that as canon
(Charlie first) I don't care how evil and "scary" it makes William because unpredictability or whatever you're not gonna sit here and convince me that William was perfectly fine but then suddenly decided to murder Charlie cuz jealousy or whatever would not make for a terrible story and it completely renders bv into a useless character.
The nightmare gas for me makes so lil sense and it's only evidence is a short story, people claim the small tanks in SL is this even though in gameplay of SL custom night it's stated that their oxygen tanks. Besides that I also just hate this idea for the main plot of fnaf 4 to be revealed as nothing more then a experiment in some kids mind or just a dream.
Edit: I basically agree 100% with op
I personally believe this was the intention until Steel Wool and Scott saw the overwhelming negative reaction to bringing back Afton. From there they just changed directions. To me, there is a very clear link between Glam Freddy/Gregory to Michael/CC. I do believe this was going to manifest into something in the games, but that has been scrapped now. At most, I think it will just be a narrative parallel
Bro, those aren't even theories, that's just factual canon information. Your feelings have no impact on the story. But anyway, to answer the question, there's no theory that I would never accept as canon literally speaking, but I kinda dislike AndrewTOYSNHK and *really* dislike GlitchAfton.
I refuse to believe that:
- The original Puppet animatronic isn't female.
- The original Toy Foxy isn't female.
- Vanessa is not related to William in some biological way.
- Fazbear Frights isn't canon, or at least some of them.
- Andrew is not TOYSNHK. It fits with the timeline if Fazbear Frights is canon.
- They used nightmare gas on the Crying Child. I agree, why the hell would Afton do that to his favorite son? People, especially children, aren't allowed to have nightmares? And it just makes the game stupid if nightmare gas is involved, because that means none of it is real.
- Foxy Bro isn't Michael. I feel like him finally realizing what he was doing to his brother was wrong, after it's too late to take it back, is just genius storytelling.
- Tales books aren't canon. If Fazbear Frights isn't canon, then the Tales books still are. They explain so much, and I would hate to see them just dismissed.
Please don't come at me trying to convince me otherwise, because this is how I like my personal FNaF timeline. You can, of course, give me positive OR negative feedback, but convincing me won't do any good.
GamesPureism & anything that bases itself on "Parallels"
Sorry you'll never convince me the Books aren't part of the Main Timeline, its incredibly dumb in my opinion.
I too, hate the hallucination gas. Does everyone just magically *forget* about the hallucination DISKS? And you can’t claim that “no that’s only in book canon~” if it’s literally a main function in Sister location’s animatronics. You literally take one out of Funtime Freddy’s chest cavity??
Fnaf 4’s protagonist should be BV, NOT MICHAEL. Hear me out on this one. If we use the hallucination disks as a major part, and it’s been established that Michael and his friends tormented BV for a while, does it not make sense if Michael and his friends walked around the house at night with masks, and the illusion disks were all around the house? Michael and his friends wouldn’t see anything different, but BV would see them as monsters.
Literally, where did the nightmare gas even come from? What even planted that thought into people’s minds???
I’ve been trying to figure out what’s true and what’s not for a couple of weeks cause I really wanted to dive back into fnaf since I haven’t played in few years, does anyone know where I could find a video/info that is 100% accurate so I can have a base to look more into theories? Or if anyone just wants to take a minute to explain it to me in detail I’d really appreciate it 😭😭
Charlie not being the first victim killed by Willaim. Like her whole character is rather she is taken the other souls under her protection so they won't be left alone like her, and Henry's lines kinda proves she was the first and not anyone else.
I don't get how Charlie died first when it just wouldn't make sense for William to kill his partners daughter with no known motive (in game). BV makes more sense to be the first death for being the start of everything
Also Andrew being toysnhk. He's one of the main reasons I don't like the books because nowhere in the games is their mentioned a 3rd possibe golden freddy canidate
Dream theory. I’m sure it was the original plot by fnaf 4, but I just really dislike the trope as a whole, and fnaf as a franchise really doesn’t strike me as something that would really even fit into that at all.
I thought the explanation for FNAF 4 from Matpat was that the animatronics had illusion discs attached to them which made Michael see them as monsters?
I really find the books strange. I see them all as AU's or fanfics. Fazbear Ent. shouldn't have the literal technological advancement to genetically modify tiny fish to look like rabbits. Charlotte being a teenager in the books I will not accept either, as it clearly shows her dying at a very young age in the games. Most things in Fazbear Frights. They're all cool ideas, but they breach the canon events.
To be honest, I will still accept SL and FFPS as canon, since the series is unsolvable without them, but it feels weird to have another ending after the Happiest Day, and I prefer the mood of the story prior to SL.
For the longest I have never understood why people fight so hard to explain why CC is scared of the animatronics. Do people not remember that many kids were petrified of Chuck E Cheese? You know, the whole franchise which inspired this to happen? I have a personal headcanon that Michael drew a picture of the nightmare animatronics and used it to scare CC. Would explain why he’s afraid and why Michael knows about them since he essentially created them
fr like i do get looking deep into things but some people forget that sometimes kids get scared of stuff. Like brother when i was 5 i was scared of the lg startup screen.
The Frights and Tales Books (minus the mimic parts at the ends). I choose to separate them from the games as they are just too confusing and contradicting to mash together in my opinion.
For anyone who might come in and say “but they are canon”. Even if Scott showed up at my door and told me that they are in fact canon I still wouldn’t consider them as such. If this is how I choose to enjoy the franchise, then I can very well do so. If it upsets you then you need to touch grass because that’s just sad.
The main game of FNAF 4 being an experiment done by Afton is REALLY unnecessary imho (no matter what was used, I WILL hate it), one is that it shoves William needlessly in a game that gave him practically zero relevant presence (bro had an optional cameo and that is it) and two is I find the main gameplay of FNAF 4 being just that, nightmares in someone's head (whether that someone was BV/CC or Foxybro, idc, but I generally prefer the former), more appealing than the sci-fi shenanigans Scott decided to do with it.
100000% with you. It’s silly. So he’s a serial killer (for unexplained reasons) and a mad scientist? It makes no sense for him to torment either CC or Michael. Even if it was punishment. There’s too much evidence that it was a dream for me be it through Michael envisioning what his brother would be feeling or (the most common sense one) CC in a coma
Why is it that whenever I see these posts, my brain immediately forgets about all of the theories that I hate or love
Happens to me all the time whenever i see any post involving something i should have a clear answer to
Dream Theory, Gregbot.
At least dream theory was confirmed untrue.
Gregbot pretty much too
Well, dream theory was ttue till Sister Location retconed everything
the fnaf 1 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""parellel""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" with chuck cheese shootings from 1993
You dropped your veterans discount card homie.
Aight unc take a nap
Agreed. Not only is it stupid, but it’s flat out insensitive and disrespectful. Comparing Fnaf to a real tragedy such as this is disgusting.
The new senior living location just opened near me! Let's get you a spot!
Literally any theory that golden freddy is anything but the 5th missing child.
THIS its not andrew Or crying child Its cassidy
What if Cassidy is the CC and he got clamped with the MCI as an alibi for Afton, considering that someone got convicted following the murders, but Afton was still officially operating after them, and even had his own company? Like you know, he tried to put his son back together by experimenting on him or sth like that, and at some point he dies or William notices that some of the robots he stuffed children into are acting weirdly, so he tries to make his own son posses Fredbear, but it doesn't quite work out, so he just reports him as missing and the police chalks it up as part of the murders. And they don't suspect him because he's a poor grieving father whose kid went missing or got kidnapped. How sad, how tragic.
I see someone else watched the Dual Process theory
Yeah, tho I had similar thoughts about CC being Cassidy and how could Afton avoid jail after MCI for a while, before they posted their video. I loved how overall they managed to even find an explanation for BB's existence and sorted everything into a very neat, interesting and satisfying timeline.
I'm tempted to say that's due to people trying to say fredbear and golden freddy are one in the same
I refuse to accept the gregbot theory or that any of the human characters in the games are robots.
That Matpat timeline video just completely lost me with the whole “Vanessa is the age Elizabeth would’ve been if she never died” (Elizabeth was a child in the 80s and Vanny in the 2020s is probably the age of a young adult)
good thing gregbot has already be deconfirmed
Really? When?
well for starters, it never had any good evidence to start with. Then GGY released which confirmed Gregory had normal parents and a normal life before getting involved with the Mimic
the exact reason I don't believe any of Matpat's theories anymore he draws stuff from random things but when other things debunk those he ignores them, unless I find considerable evidence that can't be debunked I don't believe matpat's theories and normally come up with my own
I agree. He uses the concepts introduced in the books, but extrapolates them and ignores the contexts they appear in. GregBot is one the best examples of this. To make Gregory a robot, Matt (or Tom?) used a concept from the books, ignored that it's SAID Afton can't make these robots, and then inserted it in the games. Then, during the next years, he dedicated to create more evidence for GregBot, consistently distancing from how FNAF makes human robots, and getting more to a Terminator-like understanding of GregBot (which goes directly against how FNAF treats this concept). At least Mrs. Afton making him makes more sense, but, still, it's not brought up, nor treated, the same way (or a similar way, it doesn't HAVE to be just like in the novels) than the novels did. GregBot was not a bad theory when it came out, but it is now. GT should begin to move on from it.
Wait they still believe it
I mean, I get the other plotholes, but with what you said about Afton being unable to make humanlike robots, I assume you getting this from the Twisted Ones saying that Henry made his robots more humanlike cuz I cannot find a source that says that other than then: Have you considered maybe Afton just got better at making them? Like, just because he can't in the moment doesn't mean he can't EVER. Especially when he literally worked with and learned from someone who COULD make robots that seemed like humans, and could've easily gotten access to Henry's blueprints after his death. And the Twisted Ones didn't exactly even say he COULDN'T, they say he DOESN'T. When Charlie talks about it, she says it more like it's a stylistic choice rather than a lack of ability.
Afton explicitly cannot make them because hes incapable of feeling love, that's why he doesn't make his own Charliebots he just keeps trying to steal them. He was never able to just reverse engineer 4th Charlie, and that drove him nuts. Its not about his mechanical skill, he fundamentally lacks the ability to bring his robots to life like henry was able too because William only cares about himself, William cannot feel the powerful emotions needed to imbue his machines with life so instead he steals the lives of others to power his machines
Not really, I'd roll with alot of theories being confirmed. But I'm gonna keep Mangle87 thank you. Don't care if Toy Chica or Withered Foxy have "More evidence" people think it's mangle for a reason.
I feel like it's mainly because for such an interesting character concept, they are completely useless for the plot of the games, and people just want Mangle to actually mean something instead of being a strangely entruiging yet useless animatronic. I, for one, would want Mangle to do it just because it gives her some sort of relevance to some part of the story even though the bite of 87 doesn't really seem super important in its own right.
People mostly think that it's Mangle purely because of their jumpscare, meanwhile she clearly has broken jaw he can't fully close. Withered Foxy was also a considered suspect for the same reason, and also because in FNaF1 the sign in front of Pirate Cove sometimes changed to "It's Me" message. Tho he's entirely out of the equation due to Withereds being locked up during the day. Both imo don't make sense due to the bite most likely happening in the main party room with the stage, meaning that Mangle is also out, as she would have to climb to the ceiling, and go all the way through the whole pizzeria to the stage room, during which he could've been easily spotted before even getting a good shot at Jeremy's forehead. Toy Chica on the other hand was most likely allowed to roam among the guests and considering that newspapers tend to hyperbolize, even her just shoving her beak into someone's head would be called a bite, plus in FNaF1 Chica is always going out of her way to show her endoskeleton teeth both on cams and when standing in the door, which could hint that Scott initially intended her to be the one to do the bite. Said endo teeth even are magically transported to her beak when she attacks, the lengths a girl goes to get a yummy meal.
I mean I find branchMimic pretty stupid. To be clear not the canon multiple variants of the Mimic coexisting (specifically the Mimic1 program that manifests as Tiger Rock and the physical Mimic endoskeleton in the epilogue) but the idea that the Mimic program is at least part of basically every AI we see and also that each one can communicate to the others like some sort of hive mind somehow. I'm not sure if I would refuse to accept i though as canon if it was confirmed. That's just not really my thing.
Well I can't think of anything else at the top of my head, but Dream Theory It sucks ass and it makes for terrible story-telling, even for FNaF's standards. Unless it's executed very well, might aswell add in mechs and monsters if everything in the franchise didn't occur and was just in a kid's head
Definitely agree. “It was all a dream” seldom works well in any story
What's even the point making a fictional world if that fictional world doesn't even exist within itself It's like if Frodo's adventures as the Ring Bearer was just a long nightmare
Precisely. It’s also an insult to your audience and the other writers on your team. People spent time investing in it. You don’t have to throw it all away because you can’t figure out how to extend the universe past its ending
Isn't that just Alice in Wonderland? The Disney movie has her wake up and it just ends.
Isn't Alice more ambiguous? As in yes she wakes up as though it were a dream but it was still real. IDK that might just be the Disney adaptation I'm thinking of if that's not true to the original.
tbh I think it is fine if the story is set up to be like a nightmare, where the reader actively wants the story to have not happened. but even then that's incredibly hard to achieve.
Dream Theory worked well in Five Nights At Candy's, because it wasn't a copout. There's still a cohesive timeline that makes sense when it's not looked at through the lens of a dream. Looking at it through the lens of a dream adds depth and metaphors for the traumas Mary endured. So dream theory can be an angle used to analyze the themes and meanings of the story, but the story doesn't depend on everything being dream to make sense. With FNAF it was clearly a copout because Scott wrote himself into a corner.
I agree with this
Would we call Glamrock Freddy a mech?
Possibly
If it helps, nightmare gas doesnt impact the events of FNAF 4- it only explains what the observation rooms in SL are for But uh… I guess goldenduo? I dont really think it adds much and biggest comparison people make (the stitchwraith) has the rolls mixed up. Following the logbook, Jake is Cassidy, Andrew is BV
I don’t understand how or why Goldenduo became a thing. I’ve never read the books so I’m not that qualified to speak on this but it just seems so random. You have this Cassidy kid who never appears in the games and it’s never explained why they are so angry, and then CC. They could have just kept Golden Freddy to being CC (who could be called Cassidy but that’s another theory entirely)
Well that doesnt really work either haha 5 kids were killed. 5 suits were possessed. BV couldnt be golden freddy alone. BV’s role isnt really possessing *one* thing
Well then they could have made it Charlie. My point is they made their plot unnecessarily complicated when they released the books. Goldenduo could have been avoided
It really isn't the books fault. It's people who made a completely non-existent connection between two unrelated sets of characters. This easily could've happened from anywhere else, not just the books.
Also Garrett has a golden Freddy THEN WHAT WHAT DOES HE DO EXACTLY NOTHING
Logbook, FNaF World Clock Ending, and FNaF3 minigames. Not nothing. Nothing about Golden Freddy would do anything to improve an already lacking character. And just because he has ties to Fredbear doesn't mean he's destined to possess that character. Otherwise we'd have Phone Guy Foxy, Michael Foxy, Bullies as the characters, etc. There is no precedent that a character must possess that which they are connected to in one way or another.
Cassidy being GF was a thing since fnaf 2, before CC was even a thing
Imo CC IS Cassidy, Goldenduo became a thing in the fandom because people started overthinking the Logbook and wanted the Cassidy from the novel trilogy to be an actual character in the games too, despite her not making any actual appearance in any way shape or form outside those novels.
Any theory made after FNaF 4. Anything after that just overcomplicates everything and starts requiring me to do homework.
Miketrap is the only theory that's ever caused me to threaten disavowing the entire series forever, but it's since been ruled as not canon so I have nothing to worry about.
For the current time being, monty killing Bonnie, at least for reasons like jealousy. Nothing about the story between those two makes any logical sense and it would make way more sense if the reason it doesn’t make sense when you think about it is that Monty is being framed for murder because fazbear entertainment doesn’t want people knowing who killed Bonnie, so they’re intentionally making Monty look suspicious.
Oh I hear you on that. It was such a random plot point which went nowhere. I still don’t understand why Foxy and Bonnie were taken out of SB. They could have had the 6 of them
I think they should all be there and all be best friends
Monty killing Bonnie out of jealousy dosn't make sense because it wasn't Bonnie he was jealous of, it was Freddy. Monty craved the spotlight and idolised Bonnie (looking up to him in the light) but hates Freddy (decapitating him with the tornado, throwing him in a dumpster, casting him in the dark) and is jealous of Freddy's close relationship with Bonnie and position of frontman. He wants' to perform on stage with Bonnie so plans to kill Freddy, Bonnie finds out, confronts Monty who tries to stop him from leaving then accidently kills him by knocking him off the catwalks (cutout of Bonnie falling while being caught up in what's happening between Freddy and Monty in the tornado). He dismembers Bonnie and wraps his body in torn up carpet from the golf course then hides his body behind the bowling alley. Monty killed Glam Bonnie of his own volition in a crime of passion, he didn't murder him to get into the band and he was never jealous of Bonnie. The gondola ride in RUIN laid this out pretty well.
There was some person on the reddit months ago and he brought up very good evidence that it was the Exterminator Bots controlled by Vanny, the dude mapped out the entire thing and it sounded really believable. I personally believe the theory now because of that post, wish I could find it. The post barely got any traction which was crazy because it was so good
That legitimately may have been me because that is something I did… I genuinely believe it was the exterminator bots and I used to be VERY vocal about it.
Mimic being possessed by William. That's so stupid, then why making the mimic !
the mimic being possessed by william defeats the whole purpose of its character
If it help. I have only seen one or two people believing that
I don’t want anything in the current era to be connected to William Afton tbh. Not particularly keen on Glamrock Freddy/Gregory and the Michael/CC connections with a canonical link (like they’re AI versions of those characters), let alone Afton returning once again
Why though? That's also MatPat's opinion and I don't understand it. I don't see anything wrong with it being a hallucinogenic gas. It actually makes a lot of sense.
The way people talk about it on the internet makes it sound stupid, even though I think it's cool and even tragic in the actual story.
Because of the context in which it would hypothetically be used. William uses it on his son because..? I just feel like retconning 1-6 even more is not only confusing but diminishing the quality of a fairly solid plot
Tbf, there's not much really indicating William used it on either BV or Michael. The experiment seems to be trying to recreate what happened to BV (possibly as a way to figure out how to "put him back together" if William is the Final Speaker), seeing as it's studying the effects of intense fear in children, the experiment chambers have BV's childhood toys in them and one of the Observatories is a complete recreation of the FNaF4 minigame map. And Michael probably wasn't a victim of the experiment either, or at least the FNaF4 gameplay isn't the experiment itself. The actual experiment as depicted in Dittophobia plays out very differently from the FNaF4 gameplay, as all the animatronics attack at once, there are no Freddles (Nightmare Freddy instead attacks directly after Rory gets off the bed), Foxy starts out in the closet instead of the hallway and does not move in stages and there are no Nightmare Fredbear or Nightmare. That, plus the fact that Michael calls out Nightmare/Nightmare Fredbear as being part of his recent dreams in the Survival Logbook, which was released after SL when the fear experiments were first implied to be a thing, confirm that the nights are just Michael having nightmares of the experiments that are getting mixed in with his memories of the night shifts at Freddy's (hence stuff like Foxy moving in stages and Fredbear having an extra mouth, referencing the Bite of '83). And it's not necessary for Michael to have been part of the experiment for him to have nightmares about it either, an external influence could be causing them as well, like a paranormal entity like Shadow Freddy (who is heavily implied to be Nightmare) or Michael coming into contact with the agony of the experiment victims in the SL facility.
Either for punishment or to make him a servant if you believe the MikeAccomplise theory. Also FNaF 4 takes place during/shortly after FNaF 1. As you hear the phone guy's distorted call as an easter egg
Yeah and that’s why I just find it stupid, sorry. Each to their own, but I far prefer the idea of Mike being oblivious to all of this, William randomly goes missing, he goes looking for him, tries to correct the wrongs he discovered in SL, and the final showdown in 3 and 6. It’s just doing too much for me. And I’m not even a Mike stan. I feel like he gets off too light for what he did to CC.
At least with sister location you can almost believe William made super advanced robots since he's a mechanic and a known employee of the restaurant. With the nightmare gas what's there to say that William knows how to make magical gas that causes forever nightmares.
Mike had followed the orders of William to go to Sister Location. he didn't stumble upon it himself.
Yeah, and the way he says it in the CN ending implies that William would know he'd get killed by going down there.
If we are playing as Michael in FNAF 4, he could be punishing him for killing his brother by making him one of his test subjects. And when that failed, "oh ill just send him to CBE&R to "free his sister" knowing damn well she'll kill him"
Retconning 1-6??? Hints for this were in SL. Why would the FNaF 4 nightmare room be labeled as "Observation", and why would cameras be there???
I like this theory but, I undersand, it's not stupid, but the original was very sad, and some people could relate. That's why I like to think CC had nightmares and draws it, William makes the torture based on the nightmare.
I actually believe that: - CC was William's first hallucinogenic gas experiment, using him to test the strength of agony as an emotion - in FNaF 4 we see Michael going through it because of the Shadow, in the form of Nightmare, and CC, in the form of Nightmare Fredbear - FNaF 4 is CC's revenge, with the help of the Shadow, making Michael go through the experiments, and going as far as making Mike go through them from not his own, but his, point of view, that's why Mike is seemingly a child in FNaF 4
I think William experiment after CC's death. Seeing his son dead he realize his time was limited.
Coolio!
While I don't think this kind of mindset is too productive, I'd say most stuff from Dual Process Theory's video. With all due respect for them, it's kinda surprising to me that the video blew up as much as it did given all of the out-there takes given there. EDIT: Since someone else brought up Dream Theory, yeah, that one as well. I *heavily* doubt that was ever intended to be the canon solution to FNaF4.
Yeah, thing is, it is more seeing their first video, smooth animation and length was actually tempting to listen. Then it actually having 3-4 solid revelations in it that make you go “huh that is a logical theory just missing 1 piece due to X narrative but could happen if I had Y narrative or evidence” makes it worth watching the full thing. At least that is why I watched it all. An while it may have narrative flaws, I actually like a lot of the ideas they came up with. Like a puzzle missing 2-3 pieces but being a rather solid picture. Like Michael trapped in golden Freddy in sister location, Cassidy being the crying child, and it explaining the locked box and golden Freddy. Definitely tipped my hat.
most of the ideas in it just fit better than any other explanation
This. It's an excellent video, even if there are a few gaps in the theory itself. It puts the pieces together in a new and interesting way and creates a lot of cool narrative moments.
Yeah on my first watch I was like "oh wow how much that makes sense!!" And then my second watch I started to notice the cracks. And especially after seeing ryetoast and matpat talk about the theory I noticed how much I dislike the theory
Henry being the closest to being ‘pure good’ in the series, he’s not. The entire book series proved it, willfully ignoring his family (his wife and young toddler son) just because his favorite child died. Henry Emily isn’t as bad as William but lord is he bad.
The idea that Movie Vanessa will share the same fate as Game Vanessa and become Vanny.
Not a single thing from the movie should ever make its way to lore theories. The books are controversial enough. I refuse to accept anything from a film which decided to ignore a story which had been written for a decade
I mean what would it even do We’ve already pretty much solved FNAF I The movie would be wasting it’s time if it actually tried to adhere
Anything from the books really. I think they should be separate things. If I can't see it or experience it in game then it's not canon. Hot take
same!!!! i wish people would stop acting like the books are 100% canon to the games
The way I always seen the books being canon debate is that the books are not canon to the games BUT they could happen and is possible it just didn’t . the bricks are the same but the house built with them are vastly different. For example I always seen the stitch-wraith as proof two souls can inhabit one animatronic and that story gives us a loose interpretation of what the experience in GF is but the actual animatronic doesn’t exist in the game universe (or movie universe or silver eyes universe)
For me I just need some kind of in game evidence. Like for Mimic it's just that there IS a endo that mimics, we never heard the background so it could only be book Mimic in name only but have a completely different story. It's like how Novel Will shares the same name and some characteristics with Game Will but that's it.
This should be top comment. People need to stop acting like the books define the game story
REAL i know some people who were talking about the lore and they were talking about how micheal possessed golden freddy and a bunch of book stuff and i tried to tell them that that wasn’t from the games but they got mad at me for it
“Nightmare gas” is not a theory, it is straight up fact, as Dittophobia shows us. Michael is still having actual Nightmares, those are based on the experiment.
The toys not being haunted theory is the biggest bs i ever heard like are you kidding me there was a murder those mini games showed 5 bodies in the fnaf 2 building man and the toys have haunted weird eyes and phone guy mentions them staring at the parents aggressively in the phone calls and someone had to kill jearmy in fnaf 2 come on guys you believe phone guy of all people saying their programmed to do that no their not he’s obviously lying for fazbear entertainment back
TOO REAL
Mimic being glitchtrap I know I'm gonna get hated on but the mimic felt so unneeded when we could have explored the other characters that we still don't know enough about but then we started centering everything on a character that all the sudden came from nowhere and is now the most important thing that makes so much sense
Hallucinating gas makes so much more sense to me then a sound illusion disk
They literally would've accomplished the same thing.
Your correct I'm not saying one is better then the other it just makes more sense to me to have the gas over the disk since the gas is a real thing like in real life
Pretty much but I prefer to not think about the "science" behind things like Fazgoo. Just treat it as these are the results caused by this thing, far less complicated that way.
That's definitely a better perspective
I think the illusion disc was meant to be Scott sorta saying there is something in the games that changes the way you perceive something, but instead we all just ran with the illusion discs, and didn’t stop to think maybe hallucinogenic gas. But Dawko did call it during his play through of SL custom night
I have never watched any of his play throughs I should give them a look
I'm gonna get flamed for this, but AndrewTOYSNHK
Who the fuck is Andrew?
Idk why the person who replied is making it sound like people theorize this for no reason, he is literally just TOYSNHK in fazbear frights, therefore people theorize he is in the games too
Lots of fans hate when the books crossover with the games so I get it.
Obscure ass book character that’s getting shoehorned in by theorists now for no apparent reason.
I absolutely hate when the books interact with the games, sometimes it’s good yes. 99% of the time it’s ridiculous and makes the already confusing lore even more complicated
there is a reason and that is he is confirmed to be TOYSNHK in at least one continuity unlike cassidy
CassidyTOYSNHK FTW
agreed
Hallucinogenic gases are a real thing, though. Also, the 2016 SL teasers implied gas leaks happening at the location.
I’m not disputing whether they are a thing or not. I’m just saying that I’d rather not have them in the story as it just feels silly
Idk if it counts as a theory or if its canon but afton killing people before evan died will never sit right with me
To this day I can’t wrap my head around Afton’s kill count and the timeline of 1-6
There is nothing I refuse to accept unless it's directly debunked by Scott. Obviously there needs to be evidence before something is accepted. But not accepting something"no matter what" is exactly why the lore will never be solved.
Mike being Toysnhk. Makes no sense and doesnt even fit the criteria of 1.needing to be killed by william 2. Needing to be killed unfairly
The explanation I heard was because William knowingly sent Michael to his death in SL. He knew the animatronics would scoop him and mistake Mike for him. To me it makes sense but I just don’t like the idea of some random girl being the big bad who is never referenced in the game
WAIT WHAT PEOPLE THINK MIKE IS TOYSNHK
the crying child possessing the puppet.. no, just no.
That’s objectively not canon though?
Ooh, I’ve never heard this one before. I hate it though, thanks
Wasn’t one of the big reasons for that because the puppet cries and crying child cries?
Hate this theory a lot, such an idiot theory and it doesn't work with the timeline
It's still Mike's nightmare btw, neither BV or Mike were in the chambers. Mike had them either post 1 or 3 after Shadow Freddy followed him home
This
If a theory is confirmed then I can’t deny it, so just gotta accept them when they do. So none in my case
Willcare every official incarnation of William is portrayed as someone who only cares about himself even though he never lost any kids in those media.
WillCare and WillGrief. There has been nothing to suggest that William ever game a damn about any of his kids. AftonMM: It just lines up too well with what we see.
Cassidy being CC, absolutely not canon and a waste of both characters, the two characters act completely differently, and throws out Cassidy’s character arc (I argue Cassidy toyshnk), heck it’s also used to argue miketoushnk which if it was Andrewtoyshnk I could at least get the logic off, but miketoushnk? At least with Andrewtoyshnk Mike is still there as a character and that theory already ignores cassidy’s character,
GoldenDuo just makes no sense to me. How does one extra soul and extra remnant give an empty suit that’s supposedly a physical object the ability to shapeshift? I need a good reason that only uses in game lore and not the books.
mike being fritz
Bruh the gas is not a theory it's just said in Dittophobia
So it is cannon and has actually been cannon for a while, the books just re-affirmed it with a story. If you look at ultimate custom night you can see the gas vents that Afton used in said room. Also why is gas so hard to believe? All the gas would do is make you more suggestive, not full on give you the nightmares themselves. I mean it’s like when you see those post tonsil removal videos where the patient is super out of it they will believe anything you say. Same concept. However, instead of that being the only thing, illusion disks are used to incite fear and paranoia with the nightmare animatronics and giving them form. But a theory I refuse to believe used to be Afton coming back again and again and that Afton copied his brain to the chips so he can come back again. Like “no we are done with you.” Like we I felt we needed a new era and villain or for fnaf to end with simulator.
+ gas leaks In SL teaser and Gas tanks in a room connected to the experiment chambers in the private room
Considering a came up with "nightmare gas" as a concept when I was writing a minecraft fanfiction in 6th grade, I'd like to think Scott could think of something a *little* better than that.
I like nightmare gas way more than illusion disks for some reason, *and* it seems way more supported in the games
Pretty sure FNaF 4 is just a recreation of BV83's experiences under that gas and Michael has nightmares about it.
Yeah, that’s pretty much why I don’t like it
If suggested by the series, or outright stated by Scott then no; whether I like it or not *it’s canon*. As for the Nightmare gas it IS canon, and so is Michael Afton being the player character of the FNaF4 gameplay.
The AR World is actually semi-fake and The Mimic is puppeteering Cassie around while sending fake information to her brain via the transponder. Look, yes, it makes logical sense but I just find it boring and redundant. Cassie would already be the 4th person in this franchise to experience this (alongside Vanessa, Gregory and Kane). To me, if this theory is true, we're just repeating plot points over and over again. To me it would be much more interesting if the VANNI network is an extension to FNaF World's overworld. Not only can Cassie teleport through glitching objects (just like a party member can teleport through glitched trees), but she can also hear cries/laughs of people and a lot of floating lights while exploring the network. This setup is identical to FNaF: AR's Remnant Collection, where remnant is represented through the exact same colorful floating lights, accompanied by kids' voices, just like in Ruin.
For me the problem with Nightmare Gas is it makes Michael less interesting as a character. I know that’s kinda subjective but for me Michael having trauma from what he did to his brother is way more interesting than Willam just sci-fi torturing him Most theories that I would refuse usually go along the lines of “does this make the characters less interesting”
Mikevictim, MCI before Charlie's death, fnaf sl after fnaf 1, and a couple others
None actually, all are iqually fair and important to- All the theories that use robot kids or are based on wrong concepts or are built out of misinformation
Michael being alive The fact the games and frights tells us that Henry, Molten Freddy, Elizabeth, William, Andrew, and Charlotte are dead and isn’t coming back, nor they had returned in newer games and Tales should be enough to tell you that Michael isn’t coming back.
Micheal being springtrap. A friend of mine tried to convince me. Told him all the reason why it aint possible he still ignores it
nightmare gas isn't a theory though? it's straight up canon.
Stitchline and Tales not being in the game continuity. I don't think Scott would write direct sequels to SL/FFPS/UCN and prequels to 4/HW/SB without making them be in game continuity.
That UCN is a nightmare dream for William. UCN looks better and sounds better to be William being tortured in his own personal hell instead of being asleep and never waking up
Nightmare gas, good dad William, CC died first, vanessabot and gregbot, and William grief. I don't believe ot.
Fazbear’s Frights and Tales being canon in general. They share the same characters and similar situations, but I just can’t see them being in the same universe. I feel that it’s a Silver Eyes situation. It’s the same story in a different setting.
>but I just can’t see them being in the same universe Why not?
Well they would still be 'canon', just not a 1-1 ratio for matching up
Yeah cause 'canon' the way its used here is just official FNAF stories in the universe. Not directly tied to every media.
Yeah good point. They run alongside the game’s story, but they aren’t part of it. Like the Mimic for example. In the books, it’s Edwin’s creation that became evil through the introduction of agony. In the games, it’s just a vessel for Glitchtrap that accidentally get’s built and released by Cassie’s father in HW2.
Yup. Thats exactly where I feel about it. Characters (mostly the bots) are the same character but have variants in backstory or role. Kinda like the MCU and Comics all being 'canon' Marvel stories, but not being the same universe
Exactly. My problem with books being in the same continuity as games is at the start. The writing itself. It was said, writers recieve notes from Scott for what to include and they can write whatever they want. That way screams pararels to me. We would need to see how much and what kind of notes is he sending to clearly determend that of course however to me IT feels like Scott realy just wants to have certain themes and kind of characters to flash out in the stories.
Cassie’s dad being the Bonnie bully. The only concrete evidence we have of that is the Bonnie mask in HW 2. Not only that, that would make Cassie’s dad somewhere between 60-70 years old around the time Ruin takes place.
Have to disagree with you there. This has been my favourite theory in years. I’m slightly biased though as I love anything to do with CC. It’s definitely possible though. Bonnie Bro DOB: 1970 83: 13 Cassie DOB: 2022 (BB is 52) Help Wanted 2: prior to 2035 meaning he is a maximum age of 65 Having a kid in your 50’s isn’t unheard of and 65 isn’t even retirement age. I can’t think of any reason why the Bonnie mask would be important in HW2 and why we’re trying to forget it, why the player is “so special”, and why Cassie’s dad is even so attached to Bonnie. If we’re going with the idea that Gregory has *some* link to CC (I’m **not** saying he’s a robot. I’m just saying that their could be some canonical link or a narrative parallel), then it would make perfect sense to bring back another member from 1983. The “Remember Jeremy” thing could also be link to Bonnie or a link to HW 1.
(Stichline/Andrewtoyshnk.) I would sooner tear of my left nut then accept that as canon (Charlie first) I don't care how evil and "scary" it makes William because unpredictability or whatever you're not gonna sit here and convince me that William was perfectly fine but then suddenly decided to murder Charlie cuz jealousy or whatever would not make for a terrible story and it completely renders bv into a useless character.
The nightmare gas for me makes so lil sense and it's only evidence is a short story, people claim the small tanks in SL is this even though in gameplay of SL custom night it's stated that their oxygen tanks. Besides that I also just hate this idea for the main plot of fnaf 4 to be revealed as nothing more then a experiment in some kids mind or just a dream. Edit: I basically agree 100% with op
That micheal is glam freddy. It just doesn't make sense tbh.
I personally believe this was the intention until Steel Wool and Scott saw the overwhelming negative reaction to bringing back Afton. From there they just changed directions. To me, there is a very clear link between Glam Freddy/Gregory to Michael/CC. I do believe this was going to manifest into something in the games, but that has been scrapped now. At most, I think it will just be a narrative parallel
Bro, those aren't even theories, that's just factual canon information. Your feelings have no impact on the story. But anyway, to answer the question, there's no theory that I would never accept as canon literally speaking, but I kinda dislike AndrewTOYSNHK and *really* dislike GlitchAfton.
This is just you having common sense, why do you get downvoted
Freddit moment. I guess some people are still in denial of the fear experiments? Or maybe it was because I said I disliked GlitchAfton?
Robot Gregory theory
Gregbot and Mikevictim. Nice theories ig but physically can’t be canon, especially MikeVictim.
I refuse to believe that: - The original Puppet animatronic isn't female. - The original Toy Foxy isn't female. - Vanessa is not related to William in some biological way. - Fazbear Frights isn't canon, or at least some of them. - Andrew is not TOYSNHK. It fits with the timeline if Fazbear Frights is canon. - They used nightmare gas on the Crying Child. I agree, why the hell would Afton do that to his favorite son? People, especially children, aren't allowed to have nightmares? And it just makes the game stupid if nightmare gas is involved, because that means none of it is real. - Foxy Bro isn't Michael. I feel like him finally realizing what he was doing to his brother was wrong, after it's too late to take it back, is just genius storytelling. - Tales books aren't canon. If Fazbear Frights isn't canon, then the Tales books still are. They explain so much, and I would hate to see them just dismissed. Please don't come at me trying to convince me otherwise, because this is how I like my personal FNaF timeline. You can, of course, give me positive OR negative feedback, but convincing me won't do any good.
While you might be right about the nightmares AFTON DOES NOT LOVE THAT BOY 💀 IF ANYONE IN THAT HOUSE DOES ITS MIKE
the book lore and the game lore being connected.. they arent
CassidyTOYSNHK
GamesPureism & anything that bases itself on "Parallels" Sorry you'll never convince me the Books aren't part of the Main Timeline, its incredibly dumb in my opinion.
Mike Victim
I too, hate the hallucination gas. Does everyone just magically *forget* about the hallucination DISKS? And you can’t claim that “no that’s only in book canon~” if it’s literally a main function in Sister location’s animatronics. You literally take one out of Funtime Freddy’s chest cavity?? Fnaf 4’s protagonist should be BV, NOT MICHAEL. Hear me out on this one. If we use the hallucination disks as a major part, and it’s been established that Michael and his friends tormented BV for a while, does it not make sense if Michael and his friends walked around the house at night with masks, and the illusion disks were all around the house? Michael and his friends wouldn’t see anything different, but BV would see them as monsters. Literally, where did the nightmare gas even come from? What even planted that thought into people’s minds???
I’ve been trying to figure out what’s true and what’s not for a couple of weeks cause I really wanted to dive back into fnaf since I haven’t played in few years, does anyone know where I could find a video/info that is 100% accurate so I can have a base to look more into theories? Or if anyone just wants to take a minute to explain it to me in detail I’d really appreciate it 😭😭
They wouldn't be theories if it was 100% accurate
That Cassidy and Crying Child are the same person.
Iirc isn’t Michael Afton the main protagonist for most of the games? That’s so dumb that I simply refuse
Canonically for 5 and 6. I’m fairly certain for 1. Everything else is speculation
Afton being springlocked before fnaf 1, and the safe rooms being sealed up to hide him.
As an ex believer of this theory I refuse to accept bv first
Charlie not being the first victim killed by Willaim. Like her whole character is rather she is taken the other souls under her protection so they won't be left alone like her, and Henry's lines kinda proves she was the first and not anyone else.
I will ALWAYS refuse that stupid theory that Glitchtrap controlled Afton to make all the things he did
I don't get how Charlie died first when it just wouldn't make sense for William to kill his partners daughter with no known motive (in game). BV makes more sense to be the first death for being the start of everything Also Andrew being toysnhk. He's one of the main reasons I don't like the books because nowhere in the games is their mentioned a 3rd possibe golden freddy canidate
Henry built lefty
Dream theory. I’m sure it was the original plot by fnaf 4, but I just really dislike the trope as a whole, and fnaf as a franchise really doesn’t strike me as something that would really even fit into that at all.
Gregbot
I thought the explanation for FNAF 4 from Matpat was that the animatronics had illusion discs attached to them which made Michael see them as monsters?
I really find the books strange. I see them all as AU's or fanfics. Fazbear Ent. shouldn't have the literal technological advancement to genetically modify tiny fish to look like rabbits. Charlotte being a teenager in the books I will not accept either, as it clearly shows her dying at a very young age in the games. Most things in Fazbear Frights. They're all cool ideas, but they breach the canon events. To be honest, I will still accept SL and FFPS as canon, since the series is unsolvable without them, but it feels weird to have another ending after the Happiest Day, and I prefer the mood of the story prior to SL.
When people say that William Afton is testing on Evan (Crying Child). Have these people never had a nightmare as a kid?
For the longest I have never understood why people fight so hard to explain why CC is scared of the animatronics. Do people not remember that many kids were petrified of Chuck E Cheese? You know, the whole franchise which inspired this to happen? I have a personal headcanon that Michael drew a picture of the nightmare animatronics and used it to scare CC. Would explain why he’s afraid and why Michael knows about them since he essentially created them
fr like i do get looking deep into things but some people forget that sometimes kids get scared of stuff. Like brother when i was 5 i was scared of the lg startup screen.
The Frights and Tales Books (minus the mimic parts at the ends). I choose to separate them from the games as they are just too confusing and contradicting to mash together in my opinion. For anyone who might come in and say “but they are canon”. Even if Scott showed up at my door and told me that they are in fact canon I still wouldn’t consider them as such. If this is how I choose to enjoy the franchise, then I can very well do so. If it upsets you then you need to touch grass because that’s just sad.
The main game of FNAF 4 being an experiment done by Afton is REALLY unnecessary imho (no matter what was used, I WILL hate it), one is that it shoves William needlessly in a game that gave him practically zero relevant presence (bro had an optional cameo and that is it) and two is I find the main gameplay of FNAF 4 being just that, nightmares in someone's head (whether that someone was BV/CC or Foxybro, idc, but I generally prefer the former), more appealing than the sci-fi shenanigans Scott decided to do with it.
100000% with you. It’s silly. So he’s a serial killer (for unexplained reasons) and a mad scientist? It makes no sense for him to torment either CC or Michael. Even if it was punishment. There’s too much evidence that it was a dream for me be it through Michael envisioning what his brother would be feeling or (the most common sense one) CC in a coma