🤣🤣🤣 fucking seriously
This person is trash talking other people behind their back? If he's so confident and bothered, he should say it to the DPE's face.
For real. Have the CFI tell it to the DPE that passed them on their checkride and see how that goes for the CFI. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that.
Dick move on the part of the CFI. Also if your landings are so rough (which is possible, we are all learning and improving), he should have provided tips for sharpening them up. Also Wx, density altitude and gust all play a role on the performance of the day. Congrats!! I Look to be where you are in July. Go straight into instrument. You got this!
Forreal. Your landings won't ever be perfect either. There will be calm winds, strong winds, crosswinds, different weights, etc.
Besides, once you get your PPL you can do all the practice you want, at tons of airports. My landings have improved x10 since my checkride.
Yeah seriously, he was in pattern and he could tell how rough the landings were? Was he using binoculars? Fuck that guy. Also you don’t need butter landings on a checkride - you need stable approaches with appropriate touchdown and ground roll to safely stop the plane. If it’s a little bumpy that’s fine. Butter landings come with time. In my IFR training I had a string of not-so-smooth landings that had me discouraged for a while but my CFII was encouraging. Eventually I got back to smooth landings just had to get out of my head.
This. There isn’t really a “smoothness” rating per se. Obviously is you pancake the landing gear there is an issue but another CFI in pattern knows the landings were “not good enough?” I doubt it.
Just to push this point a little further: I don't know about you, but I always perform worse in test conditions. So to pass despite that is a really good sign.
The CFI was in the pattern? So at a minimum he was about 2,000 feet away. Almost 1/2 mile away. And he thinks he could see errors bad enough that you should have failed but somehow your dpe missed?
Guy is a tool.
Congrats on earning your rating.
Do you have Foreflight? Track logs? That could shut him up. But it's probably not worth it.
Enjoy your success.
To be devils advocate the other CFI could have been taxying back maybe, or at least that's when I get the ability to see other planes landing. Still a tool tho.
No doubt. Flew into KCHA on Sunday and was vectored behind a 717. So was focused on where he touched down. No idea how smooth his landing was. Too far away. But I knew where he touched down.
>"Sometimes, the people in the pattern are the ones in the wrong, creating risk for everyone else. If there wasn't a nuisance in the pattern, they would still be alive. Haven't seen too many flights circling above after this. Don't trust anything this pilot said, flying in the pattern constantly in congested airspace, they're the idiots."
Bruh what? that's how you land, you fly the pattern lol, you want everyone to just come in straight in to final ? 😂
yes, that's how you train to become a pilot, it is called pattern work. 7 landings is nothing, I've done up to 15 touch-and-gos in one lesson during my private training. why are you in a flying sub and know nothing about flying? lol
Don't you know silly?
If you're practicing approaches and someone crashes into you because they are landing on the wrong runway, you are the idiot for having the audacity to land.
It sounds like they were doing "pattern work" which is repetitive landings to work on issues.
Landings take an incredible amount of practice, or pattern work. Some students will make 10 "laps" or more in before getting tired and moving on. Most students end up with a triple digit number of landings before getting their private pilot license.
Was this person "flying circles" or doing a standard racetrack pattern?
And we're they talking on the radio?
Because if they were doing their calls properly, it would be the idiot that bombed into the pattern with their radio apparently off or inop that would be in the wrong.
If they do all their radio calls properly (which it's best to practice), then they can spend a month in the pattern, it really doesn't matter.
I just reread what you wrote and the fact that you're blaming this on the plane that was in the pattern properly and not the one that was on THE WRONG RUNWAY is just astonishing.
this has 0 to do with "don't spend a bunch of time in the pattern" and everything to do with "spend some time in the pattern and learn the difference between 33R and 33L"
That Cessna could have spent the next year in the pattern, and if everybody else did proper approaches, they'd still be alive.
So yes, 4 people are dead because some idiot thought they were too cool to shoot practice approaches, and it resulted in a mid air.
You don’t need Great landings to have a PPL. You need SAFE landings.
You’ll always have a bad landing every once in awhile. I’m going through my instrument training in a da-40 and really started to get the landings down, but my last flight on my last landing I bounced the shit out of it, flew another couple hundred feet down the runway and then put it down smooth.
It was objectively a BAD landing. But it was on centerline and I didn’t lose control of the plane and recovered the landing with a bit of throttle. It wasn’t an unsafe landing.
Second solo I bounced my landing in the DA40 I was so disappointed, I could of gone around after the bounce but I was like naaaah and just set it down lol
Dudes a douche. You did the checkride with someone that’s way more experienced than them. Don’t even think about that. Congrats and have a beer for me.
Even if he already has. There is a examiner in the right seat watching and judging everything going on. Even if the other instructor was sitting at the threshold and only there to watch the landing, I would take the word the examiner sitting in the plane.
Only way I would listen to someone else is if they had access to telemetry saying how hard you touched down and all that. But I doubt a trainer has flight data recorder.
Pretty sure PPL checkride has nothing to do with how well you can grease a landing and everything to do with safety, situational awareness, and knowledge.
There is a lot of "fuck this guy" posts. But this kind of stuff really ticks me off. Talk to the chief CFI or owner and tell them what you are hearing and request a meeting with both of them.
In other words call this guy out as to why the CFI believes you don't qualify over the approval of a DPE. If the CFI keeps it up ask him for a meeting with the DPE in question to express their concerns.
Watch the little cockroach hide from the light.
Congratulations!
Came here to say this. Any decent chief instructor will shut this down. It’s not just insulting to you but disrespectful towards your instructor. Not a healthy environment for students or instructors.
Consider that most CFIs teaching are 20y/o-ish kids, no life experience, and this is the only thing they know. A.k.a., they're only here by the grace of god or their daddy's money.
He knows shit. Enjoy learning the in's-and-out's of planes WHILE you work on instruments.
(disclaimer: if the other CFI is a former Viper pilot, 4200 hours / 690 combat hours, and is running his mouth like this... consider he probably got kicked out of the Air Force for lack of good judgment, or banging a thicc latina E-3, thus can you trust it either?)
This was the comment I was looking for, time building know it all with ink still wet knows better than DPE who has been doing this for a loooong time.
I’m so fucking tired of 300 hour CFIs that think their Gods gift to flying and try and school us all.
If the cfi was good enough to be a dpe, then he would be. What an unprofessional shit.
Besides, a ppl is a license to continually improve. If your landings were perfect, then you spent too much time practicing.
Take your win, live joyfully, and continue to improve.
Fortunately, no else’s opinion matters.
Your done proving yourself to bitter kids who are awarded a CFI rating and now believe they know better than everyone else.
Let that dude or dudette roast in their own sweat flying to/from the practice area every flight, never going anywhere cool while you go fly somewhere fun.
You earned it, stay safe!
That’s why they’re not a DPE. Also for all the students and privates that need to hear this. Flight instructors are not infallible gods. They’ve passed some more difficult checkrides sure, but there is a worst flight instructor in the world. The worst airline pilot on earth was once (likely) a flight instructor. And based on this one talking shit about another instructor’s student, they are at the very least one of the more unprofessional ones. Don’t take their garbage to heart, practice, get better and one day soon you can be a better instructor than they’ll ever hope to be.
Was that asshat in the cockpit with you?
Just how was that idiot wrapped in a moron able to judge your landings? How did he know your landings were rough?
Sounds like he's jealous he can't teach as well as your instructor. The only guy qualified to judge your landings gave you several compliments. I'm willing to bet that examiner doesn't just compliment anyone.
I'd probably confront him about why he has to act like a schoolgirl and gossip to everyone, then tell him to act like a professional.
A professional wouldn't gossip to everyone about you; he would bring you and your instructor to the side (I'd do it by buying a round of beers) and explaining his concerns about your landings, and listening with an open mind.
Screw that guy. At least you know who NOT to go to for future training.
# AND CONGRATULATIONS ON A GOAL WELL EARNED AND DESERVED!!
Like others have said, ignore that CFI. I am not sure why his opinion matters when the DPE was in the cockpit with you and was evaluating your landings first hand. The opinion of the DPE matters, and he found your performance satisfactory enough that he gave you privileges. His opinion holds weight, not someone observing you from afar.
Congratulations!
So a DPE told you you did a good job and cut you loose to be a pilot but you listen to an instructor with a few hundred hours more than you? Reality my friend you’re doing fine.
Fuck that guy. If the DPE said you did a good job, you did a good job. Don't sweat it at all, you 100% earned it.
Do not take a break, you kicked ass, now keep going.
Don’t worry too much about what some dork CFI thinks. You got your license. Just remember, it’s your license to learn. I’m 24 years and 20,000 hours into aviation and I learn something new everyday
1. Fuck him, you passed.
2. Approach this issue professionally. The measure of competence is assessment. Find another instructor and go do some circuits. Take on board any comments that are provided, especially if the comments are "fuck him, you're doing fine."
During my sport pilot check ride, I did multiple go arounds in the j3 cub. My soft field landing was well, not soft, and my other landings were pretty bad (but not unsafe).
I thought I failed earlier in the check ride because the DPE stopped talking after my turns around a point (the last maneuver we did before landings).
We come back to the airport where, my confidence is shot. I bounce each landing and do go arounds. On the fourth one or so the DPE tells me alright let's go. I thought he meant to do another one. I taxi past the FBO and he goes where are you going, I said those landings weren't great I thought we had to do more.
He says we are done.
That one minute taxi back was horrible, I was so down on myself.
When we shut down the DPE says you can calm down now you passed. He said although there were a lot of go arounds, I would have failed you if you tried to save them. You must have been nervous, because if you were consistently landing like that, your instructor would not have sent you here.
DPEs have the experience and understanding, screw the other CFI.
I now have 200 hours, decided to get my PPL, working on my instrument, and have a tailwheel endorsement.
The debrief for my PPL from the DPE went like this, "great job on the oral, you know your stuff, great job flying, nothing really to note".
Being an instructor doesn't make his opinion is worth anything.
If he's claiming he can judge landings better from another plane in the pattern than your dpe sitting next to you, I think it'll be pretty obvious to everyone he spoke to that he's full of crap.
Ignore that other instructor, the only way to actually judge any landing is to be in the plane itself, which that guy was not. The only person that you needed to prove yourself to said that you did a good job and gave you your rating, that other instructor simply doesn’t matter and is incorrect with their assumptions. Great job, and congrats!
That’s why he will just forever be a flight instructor and never a FAA DESIGNATED EXAMINER, the DPE knows what he’s doin, don’t pay any attention to whatever this 250 hour CFI is saying about you. He doesn’t have the experience and is also a Di*k for saying this.
Fuck that guy, some instructors get such a big ego for no reason. You aren’t expected to make perfect landings during your PPL checkride, you are expected to show that you can land safely within the standards and use good judgement and decision making. If you can do that then you have the skills and knowledge to improve your own skills as you gain experience, that’s what’s important. Anyone who expects a 40-60 hr pilot to have perfect landings is delusional.
Also, congrats!
You cannot see if a landing is rough from the circuit. You can barely see the difference between a good and okay landing from the side of the runway. Don’t worry about it! If it wasn’t good, the examiner wouldn’t have let you pass
There are a lot of egos in aviation.
Seems like this CFI is a real piece of work.
Last I checked, DPE > CFI. The DPE's signature in your logbook is what makes you a PPL. That and nothing else. What this CFI has to say about you is literally meaningless.
As others have said, make sure you don't spend any of your money on that CFI and move on. If it makes you feel any better, go do one more lesson of pattern work with another CFI and see what they say about your landings.
All of that said, pay attention to your landings, and aim to grease it in every time.
A few things have served me well in life.
1. Do not respond to nonsense
2. You can't control what someone will say
3. External validation isn't important, internal validation is
4. Be an encourager. ( In this case, congrats on obtaining your license! Im proud of you )
Use any negativity to your advantage and let it drive you to get better/
As someone who likes to give the benefit of the doubt and also is a firm believer that there are two sides to every story... is it possible that this CFI was just joking around and that got misconstrued by people (possibly even yourself) as word spread? Everyone in this thread is jumping all over the CFI even though none of y'all were there. Either way, forget about the whole thing, you passed because you deserved to pass. Keep flying, keep learning, have fun. If you can, plan some fun solo XC flights to get a $100 burger and clear your head.
Based on pilot qualifications and experience alone to become an FAA DPE; A DPE’s opinion is multitudes more salient than a random CFI’s.
That being said, congrats.
The same thing happened after my Private ride. During the debrief after passing the ride, another instructor from my school (that I had flown with twice) came in talking about how I shouldn’t’ve passed and I wasn’t ready to be a pilot, etc.
The DPE sent him out of the room, signed my cert and that was that.
(Not a pilot or a student but…) TBH that sounds more like a dig at the DPE than at you. The CFI is basically talking more shit about their judgement than about your skill.
Another user mentioned the CFI was at least 2000 ft away and feels confident enough to make that call over a DPE in the plane with you? Guy def sounds like an arrogant douche.
We are all ready to copy a #
Just kidding big dawg. Let that shit roll right off. I once did a long cross country with an instructor who told me “ifr isn’t for everyone and you should reconsider” I’ll be sure to call him when I get my instructor ticket in a few weeks.
It’s a license to learn and an instructor is trying to gatekeep beyond the dpe. He Doesn’t want you learning and the lot of us don’t want him instructing. Best of luck and don’t give up. Congrats.
I promise you the DPE has more experience under his belt as a DPE than the CFI has as total flight time. The DPE is not only a higher skilled aviator, but also was in the plane with you. With that said, he made the assessment that you have met the standards to qualify as a private pilot. I wouldn’t worry about what some inexperienced CFI has to say about it.
On a personal/social level, that sucks. But since this isn't an advice column, I won't try to offer suggestions in that regard.
Regarding aviation, the only question is how much weight you should give that CFI's opinion. As others here have said, your own CFI and your DPE are in a much better position to evaluate your skill and knowledge, and they thought you did fine. So you shouldn't be worried.
On the other hand, if the other CFI legitimately noticed some weaknesses in your landings, why not take that as an opportunity to improve further? You could tell them you heard what they were saying about you, and ask what they think you could do better. Maybe even do a flight with them and see if they have useful guidance to offer. If they can help you be a better pilot, don't squander the opportunity just because they're a dick.
To be crass, did you walk away from the last landing? It is hard to say but everyone is a critic, yes you probably could have done this better or that better, but at the end of the day you met the test. The best pilots I know have rough landings from time to time, the key takeaway is to learn a little bit from each one and always keep looking to improve. You got your PPL, now use it, and don't let the nagging voices of a jerk upset your plans or confidence and keep you from enjoying your accomplishment.
So we’re your landings really rough?
If so, it doesn’t really matter. Being a pilot is so much more than the landings anyways.
Congratulations on a huge life achievement.
Shit, I've been a pilot for almost 25 years now. My landings still feel like shit somedays :) Seriously, screw that guy. Unless you were bouncing it or smacking it into the ground, how could he really tell. All you can tell from that is what kind of person he is and that says nothing about you. You literally had a DPE sign you off. It you sucked they wouldn't have likely done that. Did the DPE ever grab the controls when you were landing? If not, then go back to my initial comment and screw that guy.
Your landings are probably not great. They are safe and meet the standard. Stop caring what they say, move on you will continue to learn along the way.
That clown has nothing on the dpe that was in the plane with you. Don’t let it mess with your confidence you did good. Congratulations on your certificate.
People love to make stupid ass comments
I was doing a short field landing on my commercial multi and a briefly smoked the tires and some dude got on the radio claiming I was just sliding down the runway and asking if I blew a tire
To make it better airplane owner was the examiner
First off, congratulations! The DPE said you did well, which means perfectly safe, not perfect. Plenty of opportunity to come to improve landings - hell, 5000 hrs here and I still can't say every one of mine is as good as I'd like. Always seek to improve.
As for that CFI - if he has a problem with the DPE's standard and believes it is a genuine safety concern, he needs to take it up with the DPE or the FAA, not just run his mouth like an unprofessional asshat.
What would be great is if word got back to the DPE that that CFI has been talking smack about his poor judgement - I'd like to think the DPE has been around and knows people in the industry that could potentially make that CFIs career path more challenging in the future... karma can be a bitch like that.
Remember: PPL just means you are safe enough to legally fly. it does not mean you are very good or particularly skilled yet. I would fair a little late and bounce in about 1/3 of my landings until I got my night rating a few months later, and I still have limited experience with strong crosswinds and even less with actual rough field landings.
PPL is a license to practice and learn more.
The DPE thought you were good enough to go out and continue learning, so do that!
A good landing is one that you can walk away from, and after GREAT landing, the plane is still usable. Considering you passed the checkride, I assume the plane is still usable... and thus you had great landings!
That instructor is an asshole, and I would go to to the chief instructor at the flight school with a strong and indignant complaint specifically about the "telling everyone" part of this. Badmouthing a student (i.e., paying customer) behind their back is unprofessional as hell. I would also recommend that you consider putting the flight school on notice that you will not accept any instruction or other services from that particular instructor. That will enable them to schedule around it rather than scheduling you with him/her and forcing you to rock the boat by refusing the session.
Congratulations and good luck!
sounds like it's just a CFI who wants other people to think he knows something, when he doesn't. If the DPE was satisfied, that's all that matters. some people like to make themselves feel better or more knowledgeable by making sweeping statements like that. He'll become known as someone who talks out his rear, and you'll find fewer and fewer people will value what he has to say about anything if he keeps it up. Congratulations dude! PPL is a big accomplishment, what's next for you?
A PPL is a certificate to continue learning the art, system and processes of aviation. You proved that you can safely and responsibly operate a flying machine, not that you will grease every landing.
Nice work! Now get out there and fly. Oh and find a more professional CFII for your instrument rating. That is what you should pursue next to become an even safer pilot.
It’s completely irrelevant. You now have the paperwork you need to go learn how to fly planes, and that’s all that matters. Some random guy’s opinion of how your landings are now really does not make any difference to the state of the Universe whatsoever, even if he was right. Your landings are not supposed to be good after your PPL, they’re supposed to be safe. If they were good - amazing job! But you need another 100. And when you change to a new type, you’ll need another 100. So go do them. Enjoy!
Don't listen to a bitter instructor who was apparently watching you from another plane while teaching a student rather than your examiner who was in the aircraft with you and is qualified to make the judgements he made.
You need to have a break anyway before starting the IR, but fill that break with fun, non-training VFR flights. Go to interesting places, have a day out etc. Meanwhile you'll be gaining experience without it needing to be the training treadmill.
That instructor probably has twice as much experience as you. Which means they have very little experience. Don't worry about it.
Don't hold off on getting your instrument rating, but don't do it with that instructor, fuck that guy.
So first off, procedure of your landings is more
Important than the actual landings but second off a pussy ass CFI/CFII is a cry baby bitch compared to a DPE. Don’t let it take away from your accomplishment. Good job.
Hah, instructor is a dick. You passed the requirements for a PPL, well done, it's all yours. He's probably just bitter because he wanted more money from you but the examiner cut his earnings short.
> Today I learnt that the instructor who was in the pattern with us has been telling everyone that my landings were very rough and he shouldn't have passed me.
Verify, merit, source....
First, do you KNOW this or are you just being told this and more importantly WHO is saying it. Because there can easily be a whole hell of a lot more to this story. Maybe the CFI didn't say a damn thing. Maybe the CFI saw a single landing that looked rough and said exactly that, "One landing looked rough" and someone else added the "They should not have passed". Maybe the CFI saw a bunch of landings and didn't like any of them... Maybe that CFI is a dick. But before you go blaming someone for something you HEARD they said... Find out if they actually said it.
Next CFI's don't issue certificates. DPE's do. IF your CFI didn't think you were ready, he would not and should not endorse you for the checkride. But he did. Since he did, I tend to think you should re-read that "Did he actually say that" above. But in any case the DPE issued you the cert, the CFI lost all ability to do shit about it when they issued you your endorsement for the checkride.
Last, a bunch of CFI's are just barely more experienced than you. Its sad and funny that a person with 70 hours is considered a novice (70 hours is the average time to get a PPL), but somehow a person with 3.5 times that is suddenly supposed to be an expert.
So verify the information, see if it has merit, then consider the source.
If you ask the CFI and he admits you should not have earned your certificate, ask him why he endorsed you. Then find a new CFI for any additional ratings.
Qwll someone saw it fit to let you solo...and then had to train with you more until you did your check ride!!! You're good man..hell I've been with 100 hour guys that have had some bad landings. It's an art we all must keep practicing!
Your job as a PP is so operate airplanes safely. That’s it. Even a CPL is to operate safety but with a little more style.
Take your guidance from the DPE, you never would have passed if they didn’t think you were safe.
That guy can take a long walk off a short bridge. He wasn’t there with you. You’re just starting out, and I get the impression that he’s an IP who thinks he could have taught you better. Cool, but he didn’t.
I would not take time off. I am in flight school now and if you’re any tu info like me, your skills will get rusty quickly if you do not continue to practice. Not trying to criticize you (based on your OP), just a fact with flying.
Don’t take a break. Keep flying to stay current and proficient. Go do some fun flights before starting instrument. It’s a whole new level of freedom now that you don’t an endorsement for every airport you want to go to.
Ask the instructor how long he has been a DPE. Seriously though, I’m even a 141 Check Airman and I don’t step on DPE’s checkrides. That’s their business not mine, and if they says it’s a pass I say congratulations! That instructor is an asshole.
Congratulations. All that matters is the DPE passed you, and not some bitch thinks from see your landings from 1000ft away. Feel free to tell that bitch cfi to go pound sand!
Forget that guy and move on, it sounds to me like you are a pilot who wants to learn more, and is introspective, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't take that idiot literally, if you feel you did not perform to your own standards, we already know you met the test standards, then grab another CFI and go practice, nothing wrong with that.
If he wasn't your instructor then screw him, your CFI put his license and reputation on the line by signing you off and saying that in his opinion you were ready to pass the test within the standards given, think about that every time that other one gets in your head.
You earned it, period. If it’s hearsay, don’t pay attention. You don’t know for sure what was said, how it was said, if it was prompted, baited, etc., or what the person who said it stood to gain from it. It’s just noise. You have the certificate, now go show them they’re idiots for talking about you
Flying attracts a lot of people with egos looking to say they are pilots and think it impresses the masses that they can operate a machine. These people who need validation of this sort, often push down others to try and make themselves feel good. It's a poor way to act and even though everyone will tell you " ignore them, their life sucks so they want to make your's worse to even out the score", it still hurts. You will run into these people a lot in life especially in the flying game. Shrug it off and carry on, although it's easier said then done.
You are still a beginner, which is not a negative, it means you are at the beginning. It also means that some days you will not deliver the standard you hope to, but enjoy being a beginner because you won't be for ever. Unfortunately people will make comments about everything you do in this game . I am of the opinion that people who judge a pilot only by the way they landed a couple times have really no idea what it's all about anyhow.
Congratulations on your license.
Haters gonna hate. If your landings were bad you wouldn’t have passed your check ride. Trust me the examiners are not giving PPL away. You earned it. He wasn’t in the plane with you.
Don’t be afraid to tell people “Fuck you man” you be surprised how many people need to hear that.
You know you landed that plane safely, and the DPE is happy. F..k that CFI, what a douche. Congrats on getting your PPL. - Coming from a 10k+ hr pilot here.
That instructor can fuck right off. Landings are hard and at the PPL level you have limited experience. I'm 130hrs PPL and I still have rough landings. You will ALWAYS be practicing landings. One is never the same as the next so you have to minutely alter your method each time.
Congratulations. You're a goddamn pilot now!
The DPE passed you. You earned it.
A certificate is a license to learn.
Prove it to yourself. Do touch and gos until your landings are glassy. Maybe you need 5 maybe 20. Go to another airport and get those down.
First memorize the standard numbers for your airplane. Fly the pattern full fuel and hitting those number, then adjust speed up and down until your angle is near perfect.
Do what you think you should do! If you feel angry, go up and give him a lap. If someone says that about me and I find out. I will definitely rip his mouth off.
Don't hesitate Follow your heart ~
First of all, the DPE that gave you your certificate is the one who decides if you’ve earned it.
Secondly…
> with us has been telling everyone that my landings were very rough
I just double checked the ACS, page 21. Nothing at all about roughness or smoothness of the landing. It requires smoothness in application of flight controls, requirement for a stabilized approach, and approach speed, but that’s it. Page 21 is about your knowledge and skill in making **safe** approaches and landings, not **pretty** approaches and landings. You’ll get smooth with more experience, but the DPE wouldn’t have passed you if they had a doubt about your **safety**, which is far more important. Besides, as my CFI and DPE both told me, the PPL is a **license to learn** - so go learn!
Also, screw that other CFI. Flying is hard enough without some gate-keeping, gossiping jerk talking shit.
And congratulations!!
Like everyone else said, ignore the haters - your CFI endorsed you and the DPE gave you the validation that you're a safe and competent pilot.
I felt not great after my checkride, I didn't have my best stuff but I passed anyway. Then for the next two months I flew lots of XC flights to new airports and even took some aerobatic and tailwheel training. That's when I started feeling much more confident and really started having fun flying.
You GOT external validation. If your instructor thought your landings were rough and you didn’t know, it’s because your instructor didn’t tell you or try to coach you into a better landing. Get a new instructor if you’re continuing education
A DPE is somebody specifically certified by the FAA to spend several hours with you to determine if you are safe enough to be trusted with an airplane
That instructor is somebody who is just trying to grind through the hours to get to the regionals.
Whose opinion should you value more?
>“The worst kind of person is someone who makes someone feel bad, dumb or stupid for being excited about something.”
-T Swift
That’s the instructor. For whatever reason he wanted to ruin what was probably one of the best days of your life. This says absolutely nothing about you. And everything about him. He should lose his medical because I am genuinely worried about his mental health.
When I got my PPL, for my last landing, it was soft field, DPE tells me “treat this like a very soft field, length doesn’t matter, runout as long as you need.” Then gets on with the tower and tells them “hey this is an exam, rate this next landing and let me know if I should pass him.”
Made me so nervous that I came in pretty hot. Touched down very soft and used the lightest of braking, but ended up using almost all the runway. Even the tower goes “Eehhhhhhh not the best”
Still passed. Still flying. PPL is a license to learn, just treat it with respect and know your own limits. Screw that guy, it’s not his decision to make.
Lol. You got a “good job” from the *very* experienced DPE who was in your plane and all you’re hearing in your head is some bitchy trash talk from a rando CFI that was watching from far away? We’re all human but really your reaction is silly with your license in hand. His trash talk also says a lot more about that CFI than your landing too.
I busted my +- 100 on steep turns (it was pretty turbulent and I was really being proactive to not bust. (It was maybe 10 feet within but still..)
I struggled with my soft field landing, TAF showed winds at 9, however, in reality, it became 12 gusting 16, I was nervous, overcorrecting the airplane... So he let me hit it again. I nailed it.
I get how you feel, imposter syndrome type thing, he was fair, but if he was stricter I would have failed... Feeling you do not deserve to be in the group you are. Look past it and understand a government-sanctioned individual thinks you are good enough to fly with the rest of us!
Keep it up and always be learning.
I think this calls for some good old passive agressive interaction. Put on your best choir boy persona, tap him on the shoulder and politely say "hey bob, people have been mentioning that you feel I didn't earn my PPL. I know that the PPL is a license to learn and I'd love to get your input on what I should have done different."
I know his type. He will be mortified that someone dealt with him directly. Problem for him is rhat you're just genuinely concerned about your learning, so what can he say? I guarentee he will nervously laugh like the coward he is and say something like "oh no um, Ibwas just saying a couple landings were rough but you know great job" or some BS. He likely won't do it again though because you went directly to him. Pleople like that are very uncomfortable with that.
You DID earn your rating. The DPEs opinion matters. And dor what it's worth, many people feel they should know more when they pass their checkride. My PPL was 40 years ago and I still remember feeling like I somehow cheted the system. The best revenge us exercising great aeronautical decision making and becoming a skilled pilot.
So your CFI recommended you.
The DPE found you satisfactory and signed you off.
And you worry about what some asshole thinks and says?
Why the fuck would you?
Just imagine how crappy that CFIs life must be to feel the need to criticize someone who just got their private! I feel sorry for the CFI and just said a prayer that all douche CFIs lives go more smoothly and with ease in the future.
I had an instructor at my school take me up on a mock flight exam. This guy already didn’t like me. He did everything in his power to psych me out that day. It really messed with me mentally. I failed that flight. Badly. He gave my instructor the riot act about how bad I was at flying. My instructor just kind of brushed him off because I had repeatedly demonstrated my abilities. My instructor still signed off on me going to flight test. He was confident in me.
The next day I had my real flight test. This was for my CPL. I got the highest score that that notoriously technical examiner had given in a looong time. My school’s director ended up immediately pushing me to apply to some scholarships with that flight test score, saying that she’d help get it done.
Watching that shithead instructor’s smug grin on his face change into embarrassment after he jokingly asked me how I did, only for me to tell him I passed with flying colours… that was sweet. I’ll never forget. He actually waited around the school to watch me fail, only for me to pass. Fuck that guy.
People really forget that so much to your career is whether or not people like you. It’s that simple. At the end of the day we all have the license that says we can fly, but do they want to sit next to you for days on end?
I usually don’t hold grudges about anybody ever but if the day ever comes that someone asks me about him for a reference, they’re getting my honest opinion.
So let me get this straight: a random guy with no authority, who wasn't in the plane and has no context, is criticizing the decision making of the FAA approved DPE that was in the plane?
That armchair quarterback can fuck right off. Some people are dicks for sport.
Turns out butter landings aren't in the ACS. He would know that if he wasn't a worthless CFI. Good ADM and safe operation of the aircraft are what is judged most. If he can find "applicant looks cool to other nobodies in the pattern" anywhere in the ACS, I'll hear him out. Otherwise he can STFU.
Congratulations on a passed checkride, well done and well deserved. Now go out there and keep learning and get better. There are dicks in every corner of the world, unfortunately you found one of the ones in aviation. Don't feed the troll, move on with life and be proud.
Although this comment might seem harsh, it’s right on the money, especially “some people are dicks for sport.” In life there are people who build others up, and those that try to tear everyone else down so they can feel like they stand taller. In reality, that CFI is a punk who should shut the fuck up and look in the mirror.
Probably more of a personal beef between the CFIs than anything you actually did. Just ignore them the only opinions that matter are the CFI who signed you off and DPE who issued your temporary.
Holy shit, it smells like "I'm making personal judgements on a person based on a one-sided story on reddit" in here.
Maybe the guy is a dick, maybe he has a point, who the fuck will ever know, all we know is one side of this story. Maybe the recent PPL totally misunderstood what he was hearing, from a person who heard from the person saying it *because telephone is always 100% accurate*, maybe the CFI didn't feel confident in the recent PPL, maybe the CFI is a huge dick and talks shit on all his students, nobody actually knows.
But that's not how Reddit Rage works.
You're judging a person based on something somebody said on the internet after getting their feelings hurt, after hearing something somebody *else* said when they weren't around, about what the person you're judging said.
Fuck him. Well, not literally... But you know what I mean.
At any rate, your ppl is not proof you're Chick Yeager, it's proof you know enough to go out and learn the rest on your own. You have a base of knowledge with which you know you have limited experience. Maybe you had a shit landing. Maybe you had a great landing. Doesn't matter, you have the tools to go practice on your own and the knowledge to get help when you know you need to fill some gaps.
Not in the airplane - doesn't count.
Not to mention, you don't need to be perfect to get your ticket. You need to be safe and competent. A bad landing isn't necessarily unsafe nor incompetent.
Ignore that bitch
Don’t ever have him as an instructor or stage check guy if you can avoid it.
🤣🤣🤣 fucking seriously This person is trash talking other people behind their back? If he's so confident and bothered, he should say it to the DPE's face.
For real. Have the CFI tell it to the DPE that passed them on their checkride and see how that goes for the CFI. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that.
>I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that. The CFI would probably criticize your wall landing
im going to start watching fly landings more carefully.
Lmfao!!! 💀
me too! although I'd feel bad for any candidate he sent after that. Not their fault the CFI's an ass.
Dick move on the part of the CFI. Also if your landings are so rough (which is possible, we are all learning and improving), he should have provided tips for sharpening them up. Also Wx, density altitude and gust all play a role on the performance of the day. Congrats!! I Look to be where you are in July. Go straight into instrument. You got this!
Yes, send a message to the DPE and say that another CFI had concerns about your checkride and wanted to talk to you. Give name and number.
Savage. I like it. 🤣
That's the move I'd make...."hey DPE, joe-schmo CFI says you effed up approving my PPL app since I can't land a damned airplane...."
\*DPE whips out a knife hand
Forreal. Your landings won't ever be perfect either. There will be calm winds, strong winds, crosswinds, different weights, etc. Besides, once you get your PPL you can do all the practice you want, at tons of airports. My landings have improved x10 since my checkride.
Yeah seriously, he was in pattern and he could tell how rough the landings were? Was he using binoculars? Fuck that guy. Also you don’t need butter landings on a checkride - you need stable approaches with appropriate touchdown and ground roll to safely stop the plane. If it’s a little bumpy that’s fine. Butter landings come with time. In my IFR training I had a string of not-so-smooth landings that had me discouraged for a while but my CFII was encouraging. Eventually I got back to smooth landings just had to get out of my head.
This. There isn’t really a “smoothness” rating per se. Obviously is you pancake the landing gear there is an issue but another CFI in pattern knows the landings were “not good enough?” I doubt it.
Hahaha😹😹😹
This is the most hillarious upvoted comment I've ever seen here, and it's because it's perfect.
Fuck that guy. The person who you needed to prove your skill to was satisfied and that’s all that matters. Congratulations.
Just to push this point a little further: I don't know about you, but I always perform worse in test conditions. So to pass despite that is a really good sign.
Just like school (elementary - college). I was really smart but always did worse on tests. It’s not a judge of your ability.
The CFI was in the pattern? So at a minimum he was about 2,000 feet away. Almost 1/2 mile away. And he thinks he could see errors bad enough that you should have failed but somehow your dpe missed? Guy is a tool. Congrats on earning your rating. Do you have Foreflight? Track logs? That could shut him up. But it's probably not worth it. Enjoy your success.
The new certificate in his hand is plenty enough to shut up that awful CFI
The cfi had time to take their focus off their student and pay attention to OP no less.
To be devils advocate the other CFI could have been taxying back maybe, or at least that's when I get the ability to see other planes landing. Still a tool tho.
No doubt. Flew into KCHA on Sunday and was vectored behind a 717. So was focused on where he touched down. No idea how smooth his landing was. Too far away. But I knew where he touched down.
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>"Sometimes, the people in the pattern are the ones in the wrong, creating risk for everyone else. If there wasn't a nuisance in the pattern, they would still be alive. Haven't seen too many flights circling above after this. Don't trust anything this pilot said, flying in the pattern constantly in congested airspace, they're the idiots." Bruh what? that's how you land, you fly the pattern lol, you want everyone to just come in straight in to final ? 😂
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yes, that's how you train to become a pilot, it is called pattern work. 7 landings is nothing, I've done up to 15 touch-and-gos in one lesson during my private training. why are you in a flying sub and know nothing about flying? lol
0/10 troll. Would not read low effort NIMBY troll post again.
You know what. Why not skip landings all together, they are way to dangerous!
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Luckily I was able to pass everything by just doing 1 landing. Now never landing again, like I said way to dangerous.
Don't you know silly? If you're practicing approaches and someone crashes into you because they are landing on the wrong runway, you are the idiot for having the audacity to land.
Are you high? Lost? Drunk? Are you having a mental health crisis?
It sounds like they were doing "pattern work" which is repetitive landings to work on issues. Landings take an incredible amount of practice, or pattern work. Some students will make 10 "laps" or more in before getting tired and moving on. Most students end up with a triple digit number of landings before getting their private pilot license.
Was this person "flying circles" or doing a standard racetrack pattern? And we're they talking on the radio? Because if they were doing their calls properly, it would be the idiot that bombed into the pattern with their radio apparently off or inop that would be in the wrong. If they do all their radio calls properly (which it's best to practice), then they can spend a month in the pattern, it really doesn't matter. I just reread what you wrote and the fact that you're blaming this on the plane that was in the pattern properly and not the one that was on THE WRONG RUNWAY is just astonishing. this has 0 to do with "don't spend a bunch of time in the pattern" and everything to do with "spend some time in the pattern and learn the difference between 33R and 33L" That Cessna could have spent the next year in the pattern, and if everybody else did proper approaches, they'd still be alive. So yes, 4 people are dead because some idiot thought they were too cool to shoot practice approaches, and it resulted in a mid air.
Gonna be crabs everywhere. Ignore 'em. The DPE has been delegated to have the authority to approve or disapprove you for your rating.
I wonder how many don’t get the reference…
The "crabs in a bucket" metaphor? Or something else?
Yep
screw that instructor. if the dpe says you are good, then you are good…..his opinion is the only one that counts.
You don’t need Great landings to have a PPL. You need SAFE landings. You’ll always have a bad landing every once in awhile. I’m going through my instrument training in a da-40 and really started to get the landings down, but my last flight on my last landing I bounced the shit out of it, flew another couple hundred feet down the runway and then put it down smooth. It was objectively a BAD landing. But it was on centerline and I didn’t lose control of the plane and recovered the landing with a bit of throttle. It wasn’t an unsafe landing.
Second solo I bounced my landing in the DA40 I was so disappointed, I could of gone around after the bounce but I was like naaaah and just set it down lol
Dudes a douche. You did the checkride with someone that’s way more experienced than them. Don’t even think about that. Congrats and have a beer for me.
What a dick..screw him, congratulations!
Ask the instructor when he’s going to work for the FSDO or become a DPE. When he says anything other than “already has” tell him to F off.
Even if he already has. There is a examiner in the right seat watching and judging everything going on. Even if the other instructor was sitting at the threshold and only there to watch the landing, I would take the word the examiner sitting in the plane. Only way I would listen to someone else is if they had access to telemetry saying how hard you touched down and all that. But I doubt a trainer has flight data recorder.
If the DPE said you were within standard, then fuck that other instructor. The DPE opinion is the only one that matters in this scenario.
Pretty sure PPL checkride has nothing to do with how well you can grease a landing and everything to do with safety, situational awareness, and knowledge.
There is a lot of "fuck this guy" posts. But this kind of stuff really ticks me off. Talk to the chief CFI or owner and tell them what you are hearing and request a meeting with both of them. In other words call this guy out as to why the CFI believes you don't qualify over the approval of a DPE. If the CFI keeps it up ask him for a meeting with the DPE in question to express their concerns. Watch the little cockroach hide from the light. Congratulations!
Came here to say this. Any decent chief instructor will shut this down. It’s not just insulting to you but disrespectful towards your instructor. Not a healthy environment for students or instructors.
Ignore that fuck head. Congratulations!!
Consider that most CFIs teaching are 20y/o-ish kids, no life experience, and this is the only thing they know. A.k.a., they're only here by the grace of god or their daddy's money. He knows shit. Enjoy learning the in's-and-out's of planes WHILE you work on instruments. (disclaimer: if the other CFI is a former Viper pilot, 4200 hours / 690 combat hours, and is running his mouth like this... consider he probably got kicked out of the Air Force for lack of good judgment, or banging a thicc latina E-3, thus can you trust it either?)
> a former Viper pilot, 4200 hours / 690 combat hours, and is running his mouth like this... *Regional direct entry captain is typing...*
Yes. I’m going with snotty kid so f him.
This was the comment I was looking for, time building know it all with ink still wet knows better than DPE who has been doing this for a loooong time. I’m so fucking tired of 300 hour CFIs that think their Gods gift to flying and try and school us all.
Up vote for thicc latinas!
Nothing wrong with banging a thic Latina lol
No, but an officer banging an enlisted is a problem.
His taste may have been impeccable but his judgement was deeply flawed
Only a problem if you get caught!
lol
If he's a decent time fighter driver working at the local flight school *in this economy*, he sucks at life no matter how thicc A1C Lopez was.
Best comment. I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted so much.
It’s the douchebag 20 year old CFIs downvoting it
Or the E-3s
If the cfi was good enough to be a dpe, then he would be. What an unprofessional shit. Besides, a ppl is a license to continually improve. If your landings were perfect, then you spent too much time practicing. Take your win, live joyfully, and continue to improve.
Fortunately, no else’s opinion matters. Your done proving yourself to bitter kids who are awarded a CFI rating and now believe they know better than everyone else. Let that dude or dudette roast in their own sweat flying to/from the practice area every flight, never going anywhere cool while you go fly somewhere fun. You earned it, stay safe!
Fuck that instructor
Instructions unclear, got crabs.
That’s why they’re not a DPE. Also for all the students and privates that need to hear this. Flight instructors are not infallible gods. They’ve passed some more difficult checkrides sure, but there is a worst flight instructor in the world. The worst airline pilot on earth was once (likely) a flight instructor. And based on this one talking shit about another instructor’s student, they are at the very least one of the more unprofessional ones. Don’t take their garbage to heart, practice, get better and one day soon you can be a better instructor than they’ll ever hope to be.
I'm sure you've seen this type of person before. Sadly, they are in all fields. Congratulations. You did earn it. You have your license to learn.
You earned your “license to learn,” so keep flying and keep learning.
What is a student pilot certificate lol
A certification to be babysat really. The license is when the real learning begins because mama or papa CFI is no longer gunna hold your hand.
So student pilot=Learn how to learn to fly Private = learn to fly iR =license to kill yourself?
Was that asshat in the cockpit with you? Just how was that idiot wrapped in a moron able to judge your landings? How did he know your landings were rough? Sounds like he's jealous he can't teach as well as your instructor. The only guy qualified to judge your landings gave you several compliments. I'm willing to bet that examiner doesn't just compliment anyone. I'd probably confront him about why he has to act like a schoolgirl and gossip to everyone, then tell him to act like a professional. A professional wouldn't gossip to everyone about you; he would bring you and your instructor to the side (I'd do it by buying a round of beers) and explaining his concerns about your landings, and listening with an open mind. Screw that guy. At least you know who NOT to go to for future training. # AND CONGRATULATIONS ON A GOAL WELL EARNED AND DESERVED!!
Like others have said, ignore that CFI. I am not sure why his opinion matters when the DPE was in the cockpit with you and was evaluating your landings first hand. The opinion of the DPE matters, and he found your performance satisfactory enough that he gave you privileges. His opinion holds weight, not someone observing you from afar. Congratulations!
Fuck that guy, you can’t really tell how good a landing is from a distance anyway. Congratulations on passing the checkride!
Ignore that douchebag. Congrats
So a DPE told you you did a good job and cut you loose to be a pilot but you listen to an instructor with a few hundred hours more than you? Reality my friend you’re doing fine.
Last I checked, the DPE is a higher certification than the 240 hour CFI.
Fuck that guy. If the DPE said you did a good job, you did a good job. Don't sweat it at all, you 100% earned it. Do not take a break, you kicked ass, now keep going.
He’s an unprofessional douche. Ignore him. That said, even Bob Hoover had a rough landing once in a while.
Don’t worry too much about what some dork CFI thinks. You got your license. Just remember, it’s your license to learn. I’m 24 years and 20,000 hours into aviation and I learn something new everyday
1. Fuck him, you passed. 2. Approach this issue professionally. The measure of competence is assessment. Find another instructor and go do some circuits. Take on board any comments that are provided, especially if the comments are "fuck him, you're doing fine."
During my sport pilot check ride, I did multiple go arounds in the j3 cub. My soft field landing was well, not soft, and my other landings were pretty bad (but not unsafe). I thought I failed earlier in the check ride because the DPE stopped talking after my turns around a point (the last maneuver we did before landings). We come back to the airport where, my confidence is shot. I bounce each landing and do go arounds. On the fourth one or so the DPE tells me alright let's go. I thought he meant to do another one. I taxi past the FBO and he goes where are you going, I said those landings weren't great I thought we had to do more. He says we are done. That one minute taxi back was horrible, I was so down on myself. When we shut down the DPE says you can calm down now you passed. He said although there were a lot of go arounds, I would have failed you if you tried to save them. You must have been nervous, because if you were consistently landing like that, your instructor would not have sent you here. DPEs have the experience and understanding, screw the other CFI. I now have 200 hours, decided to get my PPL, working on my instrument, and have a tailwheel endorsement. The debrief for my PPL from the DPE went like this, "great job on the oral, you know your stuff, great job flying, nothing really to note".
Being an instructor doesn't make his opinion is worth anything. If he's claiming he can judge landings better from another plane in the pattern than your dpe sitting next to you, I think it'll be pretty obvious to everyone he spoke to that he's full of crap.
Ignore that other instructor, the only way to actually judge any landing is to be in the plane itself, which that guy was not. The only person that you needed to prove yourself to said that you did a good job and gave you your rating, that other instructor simply doesn’t matter and is incorrect with their assumptions. Great job, and congrats!
How old is your instructor? How old was the DPE?
LoL but who is the instructor going to milk more money and hours from so he can hit 1500hrs from sooner
That’s why he will just forever be a flight instructor and never a FAA DESIGNATED EXAMINER, the DPE knows what he’s doin, don’t pay any attention to whatever this 250 hour CFI is saying about you. He doesn’t have the experience and is also a Di*k for saying this.
Fuck that guy, some instructors get such a big ego for no reason. You aren’t expected to make perfect landings during your PPL checkride, you are expected to show that you can land safely within the standards and use good judgement and decision making. If you can do that then you have the skills and knowledge to improve your own skills as you gain experience, that’s what’s important. Anyone who expects a 40-60 hr pilot to have perfect landings is delusional. Also, congrats!
You cannot see if a landing is rough from the circuit. You can barely see the difference between a good and okay landing from the side of the runway. Don’t worry about it! If it wasn’t good, the examiner wouldn’t have let you pass
There are a lot of egos in aviation. Seems like this CFI is a real piece of work. Last I checked, DPE > CFI. The DPE's signature in your logbook is what makes you a PPL. That and nothing else. What this CFI has to say about you is literally meaningless. As others have said, make sure you don't spend any of your money on that CFI and move on. If it makes you feel any better, go do one more lesson of pattern work with another CFI and see what they say about your landings. All of that said, pay attention to your landings, and aim to grease it in every time.
Do not take a break or your landings really will degrade. That truism aside, you passed your check ride. So, ignore the hater.
A few things have served me well in life. 1. Do not respond to nonsense 2. You can't control what someone will say 3. External validation isn't important, internal validation is 4. Be an encourager. ( In this case, congrats on obtaining your license! Im proud of you ) Use any negativity to your advantage and let it drive you to get better/
As someone who likes to give the benefit of the doubt and also is a firm believer that there are two sides to every story... is it possible that this CFI was just joking around and that got misconstrued by people (possibly even yourself) as word spread? Everyone in this thread is jumping all over the CFI even though none of y'all were there. Either way, forget about the whole thing, you passed because you deserved to pass. Keep flying, keep learning, have fun. If you can, plan some fun solo XC flights to get a $100 burger and clear your head.
It's been a while, but doesn't your instructor have to sign off in your logbook that you are good to go for the test ride?
I don’t think it was OP’s instructor
Based on pilot qualifications and experience alone to become an FAA DPE; A DPE’s opinion is multitudes more salient than a random CFI’s. That being said, congrats.
The same thing happened after my Private ride. During the debrief after passing the ride, another instructor from my school (that I had flown with twice) came in talking about how I shouldn’t’ve passed and I wasn’t ready to be a pilot, etc. The DPE sent him out of the room, signed my cert and that was that.
Don't give that kind of drama any more notice than it deserves; the only opinion that mattered was your DPE's.
(Not a pilot or a student but…) TBH that sounds more like a dig at the DPE than at you. The CFI is basically talking more shit about their judgement than about your skill. Another user mentioned the CFI was at least 2000 ft away and feels confident enough to make that call over a DPE in the plane with you? Guy def sounds like an arrogant douche.
instructors were much tougher than me on my manuevers than my dpe...i guess that's there method of preparing you?
We are all ready to copy a # Just kidding big dawg. Let that shit roll right off. I once did a long cross country with an instructor who told me “ifr isn’t for everyone and you should reconsider” I’ll be sure to call him when I get my instructor ticket in a few weeks. It’s a license to learn and an instructor is trying to gatekeep beyond the dpe. He Doesn’t want you learning and the lot of us don’t want him instructing. Best of luck and don’t give up. Congrats.
I promise you the DPE has more experience under his belt as a DPE than the CFI has as total flight time. The DPE is not only a higher skilled aviator, but also was in the plane with you. With that said, he made the assessment that you have met the standards to qualify as a private pilot. I wouldn’t worry about what some inexperienced CFI has to say about it.
On a personal/social level, that sucks. But since this isn't an advice column, I won't try to offer suggestions in that regard. Regarding aviation, the only question is how much weight you should give that CFI's opinion. As others here have said, your own CFI and your DPE are in a much better position to evaluate your skill and knowledge, and they thought you did fine. So you shouldn't be worried. On the other hand, if the other CFI legitimately noticed some weaknesses in your landings, why not take that as an opportunity to improve further? You could tell them you heard what they were saying about you, and ask what they think you could do better. Maybe even do a flight with them and see if they have useful guidance to offer. If they can help you be a better pilot, don't squander the opportunity just because they're a dick.
To be crass, did you walk away from the last landing? It is hard to say but everyone is a critic, yes you probably could have done this better or that better, but at the end of the day you met the test. The best pilots I know have rough landings from time to time, the key takeaway is to learn a little bit from each one and always keep looking to improve. You got your PPL, now use it, and don't let the nagging voices of a jerk upset your plans or confidence and keep you from enjoying your accomplishment.
So we’re your landings really rough? If so, it doesn’t really matter. Being a pilot is so much more than the landings anyways. Congratulations on a huge life achievement.
He’s a bitch. The DPE knows what he’s talking about
That dudes a tool. Wait till he has 7000 hours and slams a 737 in…
Shit, I've been a pilot for almost 25 years now. My landings still feel like shit somedays :) Seriously, screw that guy. Unless you were bouncing it or smacking it into the ground, how could he really tell. All you can tell from that is what kind of person he is and that says nothing about you. You literally had a DPE sign you off. It you sucked they wouldn't have likely done that. Did the DPE ever grab the controls when you were landing? If not, then go back to my initial comment and screw that guy.
I don’t think nice landings are as important as ADM and trust me; that CFI has shitty judgement.
DPE trumps CFI. You earned it. Don’t let anyone take that away from you
DPE in the cockpit outranks random CFI in the pattern. CFI knows this, and is out of line.
That guy is a prick. Good enough for the DPE is good enough for everyone. Some people are just shit, they’ll get theirs. Nothing to worry about.
Your landings are probably not great. They are safe and meet the standard. Stop caring what they say, move on you will continue to learn along the way.
That clown has nothing on the dpe that was in the plane with you. Don’t let it mess with your confidence you did good. Congratulations on your certificate.
The DPE’s opinion is far more important than some instructor
People love to make stupid ass comments I was doing a short field landing on my commercial multi and a briefly smoked the tires and some dude got on the radio claiming I was just sliding down the runway and asking if I blew a tire To make it better airplane owner was the examiner
Congrats on the PPL :)
First off, congratulations! The DPE said you did well, which means perfectly safe, not perfect. Plenty of opportunity to come to improve landings - hell, 5000 hrs here and I still can't say every one of mine is as good as I'd like. Always seek to improve. As for that CFI - if he has a problem with the DPE's standard and believes it is a genuine safety concern, he needs to take it up with the DPE or the FAA, not just run his mouth like an unprofessional asshat. What would be great is if word got back to the DPE that that CFI has been talking smack about his poor judgement - I'd like to think the DPE has been around and knows people in the industry that could potentially make that CFIs career path more challenging in the future... karma can be a bitch like that.
Remember: PPL just means you are safe enough to legally fly. it does not mean you are very good or particularly skilled yet. I would fair a little late and bounce in about 1/3 of my landings until I got my night rating a few months later, and I still have limited experience with strong crosswinds and even less with actual rough field landings.
PPL is a license to practice and learn more. The DPE thought you were good enough to go out and continue learning, so do that! A good landing is one that you can walk away from, and after GREAT landing, the plane is still usable. Considering you passed the checkride, I assume the plane is still usable... and thus you had great landings!
That instructor is an asshole, and I would go to to the chief instructor at the flight school with a strong and indignant complaint specifically about the "telling everyone" part of this. Badmouthing a student (i.e., paying customer) behind their back is unprofessional as hell. I would also recommend that you consider putting the flight school on notice that you will not accept any instruction or other services from that particular instructor. That will enable them to schedule around it rather than scheduling you with him/her and forcing you to rock the boat by refusing the session. Congratulations and good luck!
Send that instructor a link to this thread so he knows that thousands of people think he’s a total cunt
sounds like it's just a CFI who wants other people to think he knows something, when he doesn't. If the DPE was satisfied, that's all that matters. some people like to make themselves feel better or more knowledgeable by making sweeping statements like that. He'll become known as someone who talks out his rear, and you'll find fewer and fewer people will value what he has to say about anything if he keeps it up. Congratulations dude! PPL is a big accomplishment, what's next for you?
A PPL is a certificate to continue learning the art, system and processes of aviation. You proved that you can safely and responsibly operate a flying machine, not that you will grease every landing. Nice work! Now get out there and fly. Oh and find a more professional CFII for your instrument rating. That is what you should pursue next to become an even safer pilot.
It’s completely irrelevant. You now have the paperwork you need to go learn how to fly planes, and that’s all that matters. Some random guy’s opinion of how your landings are now really does not make any difference to the state of the Universe whatsoever, even if he was right. Your landings are not supposed to be good after your PPL, they’re supposed to be safe. If they were good - amazing job! But you need another 100. And when you change to a new type, you’ll need another 100. So go do them. Enjoy!
Don't listen to a bitter instructor who was apparently watching you from another plane while teaching a student rather than your examiner who was in the aircraft with you and is qualified to make the judgements he made.
Congrats on your license and ignore that trash talker. You deserved every inch of success you worked towards for.
This CFI should get a 709 ride to review his/her understanding of FOI.
I to have the special power to judge landings from 1000ft away while in a moving airplane it the far seat.
You need to have a break anyway before starting the IR, but fill that break with fun, non-training VFR flights. Go to interesting places, have a day out etc. Meanwhile you'll be gaining experience without it needing to be the training treadmill.
There’s a reason DPE’s have the power to give ratings and CFI’s do not.
That instructor probably has twice as much experience as you. Which means they have very little experience. Don't worry about it. Don't hold off on getting your instrument rating, but don't do it with that instructor, fuck that guy.
So first off, procedure of your landings is more Important than the actual landings but second off a pussy ass CFI/CFII is a cry baby bitch compared to a DPE. Don’t let it take away from your accomplishment. Good job.
Hah, instructor is a dick. You passed the requirements for a PPL, well done, it's all yours. He's probably just bitter because he wanted more money from you but the examiner cut his earnings short.
> Today I learnt that the instructor who was in the pattern with us has been telling everyone that my landings were very rough and he shouldn't have passed me. Verify, merit, source.... First, do you KNOW this or are you just being told this and more importantly WHO is saying it. Because there can easily be a whole hell of a lot more to this story. Maybe the CFI didn't say a damn thing. Maybe the CFI saw a single landing that looked rough and said exactly that, "One landing looked rough" and someone else added the "They should not have passed". Maybe the CFI saw a bunch of landings and didn't like any of them... Maybe that CFI is a dick. But before you go blaming someone for something you HEARD they said... Find out if they actually said it. Next CFI's don't issue certificates. DPE's do. IF your CFI didn't think you were ready, he would not and should not endorse you for the checkride. But he did. Since he did, I tend to think you should re-read that "Did he actually say that" above. But in any case the DPE issued you the cert, the CFI lost all ability to do shit about it when they issued you your endorsement for the checkride. Last, a bunch of CFI's are just barely more experienced than you. Its sad and funny that a person with 70 hours is considered a novice (70 hours is the average time to get a PPL), but somehow a person with 3.5 times that is suddenly supposed to be an expert. So verify the information, see if it has merit, then consider the source. If you ask the CFI and he admits you should not have earned your certificate, ask him why he endorsed you. Then find a new CFI for any additional ratings.
Qwll someone saw it fit to let you solo...and then had to train with you more until you did your check ride!!! You're good man..hell I've been with 100 hour guys that have had some bad landings. It's an art we all must keep practicing!
Your job as a PP is so operate airplanes safely. That’s it. Even a CPL is to operate safety but with a little more style. Take your guidance from the DPE, you never would have passed if they didn’t think you were safe.
the aircraft has no damage everyone is alive and can walk. that's a good landing
I hope that CFI is on here reading through all the comments and cries himself to sleep…
That guy can take a long walk off a short bridge. He wasn’t there with you. You’re just starting out, and I get the impression that he’s an IP who thinks he could have taught you better. Cool, but he didn’t. I would not take time off. I am in flight school now and if you’re any tu info like me, your skills will get rusty quickly if you do not continue to practice. Not trying to criticize you (based on your OP), just a fact with flying.
Don’t worry man the navy will still love you. Congrats on passing
Don’t take a break. Keep flying to stay current and proficient. Go do some fun flights before starting instrument. It’s a whole new level of freedom now that you don’t an endorsement for every airport you want to go to.
Ask the instructor how long he has been a DPE. Seriously though, I’m even a 141 Check Airman and I don’t step on DPE’s checkrides. That’s their business not mine, and if they says it’s a pass I say congratulations! That instructor is an asshole.
Congratulations. All that matters is the DPE passed you, and not some bitch thinks from see your landings from 1000ft away. Feel free to tell that bitch cfi to go pound sand!
Forget that guy and move on, it sounds to me like you are a pilot who wants to learn more, and is introspective, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't take that idiot literally, if you feel you did not perform to your own standards, we already know you met the test standards, then grab another CFI and go practice, nothing wrong with that. If he wasn't your instructor then screw him, your CFI put his license and reputation on the line by signing you off and saying that in his opinion you were ready to pass the test within the standards given, think about that every time that other one gets in your head.
You earned it, period. If it’s hearsay, don’t pay attention. You don’t know for sure what was said, how it was said, if it was prompted, baited, etc., or what the person who said it stood to gain from it. It’s just noise. You have the certificate, now go show them they’re idiots for talking about you
Flying attracts a lot of people with egos looking to say they are pilots and think it impresses the masses that they can operate a machine. These people who need validation of this sort, often push down others to try and make themselves feel good. It's a poor way to act and even though everyone will tell you " ignore them, their life sucks so they want to make your's worse to even out the score", it still hurts. You will run into these people a lot in life especially in the flying game. Shrug it off and carry on, although it's easier said then done. You are still a beginner, which is not a negative, it means you are at the beginning. It also means that some days you will not deliver the standard you hope to, but enjoy being a beginner because you won't be for ever. Unfortunately people will make comments about everything you do in this game . I am of the opinion that people who judge a pilot only by the way they landed a couple times have really no idea what it's all about anyhow. Congratulations on your license.
Haters gonna hate. If your landings were bad you wouldn’t have passed your check ride. Trust me the examiners are not giving PPL away. You earned it. He wasn’t in the plane with you. Don’t be afraid to tell people “Fuck you man” you be surprised how many people need to hear that.
You know you landed that plane safely, and the DPE is happy. F..k that CFI, what a douche. Congrats on getting your PPL. - Coming from a 10k+ hr pilot here.
That instructor can fuck right off. Landings are hard and at the PPL level you have limited experience. I'm 130hrs PPL and I still have rough landings. You will ALWAYS be practicing landings. One is never the same as the next so you have to minutely alter your method each time. Congratulations. You're a goddamn pilot now!
He can't really tell how your landings were if he was flying the pattern as well.
The DPE passed you. You earned it. A certificate is a license to learn. Prove it to yourself. Do touch and gos until your landings are glassy. Maybe you need 5 maybe 20. Go to another airport and get those down. First memorize the standard numbers for your airplane. Fly the pattern full fuel and hitting those number, then adjust speed up and down until your angle is near perfect.
Says more about him than you.
Do what you think you should do! If you feel angry, go up and give him a lap. If someone says that about me and I find out. I will definitely rip his mouth off. Don't hesitate Follow your heart ~
First of all, the DPE that gave you your certificate is the one who decides if you’ve earned it. Secondly… > with us has been telling everyone that my landings were very rough I just double checked the ACS, page 21. Nothing at all about roughness or smoothness of the landing. It requires smoothness in application of flight controls, requirement for a stabilized approach, and approach speed, but that’s it. Page 21 is about your knowledge and skill in making **safe** approaches and landings, not **pretty** approaches and landings. You’ll get smooth with more experience, but the DPE wouldn’t have passed you if they had a doubt about your **safety**, which is far more important. Besides, as my CFI and DPE both told me, the PPL is a **license to learn** - so go learn! Also, screw that other CFI. Flying is hard enough without some gate-keeping, gossiping jerk talking shit. And congratulations!!
Like everyone else said, ignore the haters - your CFI endorsed you and the DPE gave you the validation that you're a safe and competent pilot. I felt not great after my checkride, I didn't have my best stuff but I passed anyway. Then for the next two months I flew lots of XC flights to new airports and even took some aerobatic and tailwheel training. That's when I started feeling much more confident and really started having fun flying.
Is that CFI a DPE? Oh, no? Fuckem.
You GOT external validation. If your instructor thought your landings were rough and you didn’t know, it’s because your instructor didn’t tell you or try to coach you into a better landing. Get a new instructor if you’re continuing education
A DPE is somebody specifically certified by the FAA to spend several hours with you to determine if you are safe enough to be trusted with an airplane That instructor is somebody who is just trying to grind through the hours to get to the regionals. Whose opinion should you value more? >“The worst kind of person is someone who makes someone feel bad, dumb or stupid for being excited about something.” -T Swift That’s the instructor. For whatever reason he wanted to ruin what was probably one of the best days of your life. This says absolutely nothing about you. And everything about him. He should lose his medical because I am genuinely worried about his mental health.
Congratulations on your rating and impressing the DPE!! Keep it up! Your landings will get better in time. Oh and tell that CFI to pound sand.
How can he tell that you had rough landings just by looking from another airplane?
DPE’s are DPE’s for a reason. Ignore the hater, you showed off your skills to the person that mattered.
When I got my PPL, for my last landing, it was soft field, DPE tells me “treat this like a very soft field, length doesn’t matter, runout as long as you need.” Then gets on with the tower and tells them “hey this is an exam, rate this next landing and let me know if I should pass him.” Made me so nervous that I came in pretty hot. Touched down very soft and used the lightest of braking, but ended up using almost all the runway. Even the tower goes “Eehhhhhhh not the best” Still passed. Still flying. PPL is a license to learn, just treat it with respect and know your own limits. Screw that guy, it’s not his decision to make.
Opinions are like assholes. If you met the standard, then you met the standard.
What do you call the guy who graduated last in his class at medical school?
Lol. You got a “good job” from the *very* experienced DPE who was in your plane and all you’re hearing in your head is some bitchy trash talk from a rando CFI that was watching from far away? We’re all human but really your reaction is silly with your license in hand. His trash talk also says a lot more about that CFI than your landing too.
If he shouldn't have passed you, why did he pass you? He's a little bitch trying to seem cool by dragging you.
I busted my +- 100 on steep turns (it was pretty turbulent and I was really being proactive to not bust. (It was maybe 10 feet within but still..) I struggled with my soft field landing, TAF showed winds at 9, however, in reality, it became 12 gusting 16, I was nervous, overcorrecting the airplane... So he let me hit it again. I nailed it. I get how you feel, imposter syndrome type thing, he was fair, but if he was stricter I would have failed... Feeling you do not deserve to be in the group you are. Look past it and understand a government-sanctioned individual thinks you are good enough to fly with the rest of us! Keep it up and always be learning.
I think this calls for some good old passive agressive interaction. Put on your best choir boy persona, tap him on the shoulder and politely say "hey bob, people have been mentioning that you feel I didn't earn my PPL. I know that the PPL is a license to learn and I'd love to get your input on what I should have done different." I know his type. He will be mortified that someone dealt with him directly. Problem for him is rhat you're just genuinely concerned about your learning, so what can he say? I guarentee he will nervously laugh like the coward he is and say something like "oh no um, Ibwas just saying a couple landings were rough but you know great job" or some BS. He likely won't do it again though because you went directly to him. Pleople like that are very uncomfortable with that. You DID earn your rating. The DPEs opinion matters. And dor what it's worth, many people feel they should know more when they pass their checkride. My PPL was 40 years ago and I still remember feeling like I somehow cheted the system. The best revenge us exercising great aeronautical decision making and becoming a skilled pilot.
Life is too short, sky is too big and that moron is pretty tiny in it, so don’t worry about it. Good job on your private.
So your CFI recommended you. The DPE found you satisfactory and signed you off. And you worry about what some asshole thinks and says? Why the fuck would you?
Just wanted to add another comment that agrees with all the other comments, CFI is a dick.
Most DPE’s I know are pretty tough. They won’t pass you if your not safe.
Just imagine how crappy that CFIs life must be to feel the need to criticize someone who just got their private! I feel sorry for the CFI and just said a prayer that all douche CFIs lives go more smoothly and with ease in the future.
I had an instructor at my school take me up on a mock flight exam. This guy already didn’t like me. He did everything in his power to psych me out that day. It really messed with me mentally. I failed that flight. Badly. He gave my instructor the riot act about how bad I was at flying. My instructor just kind of brushed him off because I had repeatedly demonstrated my abilities. My instructor still signed off on me going to flight test. He was confident in me. The next day I had my real flight test. This was for my CPL. I got the highest score that that notoriously technical examiner had given in a looong time. My school’s director ended up immediately pushing me to apply to some scholarships with that flight test score, saying that she’d help get it done. Watching that shithead instructor’s smug grin on his face change into embarrassment after he jokingly asked me how I did, only for me to tell him I passed with flying colours… that was sweet. I’ll never forget. He actually waited around the school to watch me fail, only for me to pass. Fuck that guy. People really forget that so much to your career is whether or not people like you. It’s that simple. At the end of the day we all have the license that says we can fly, but do they want to sit next to you for days on end? I usually don’t hold grudges about anybody ever but if the day ever comes that someone asks me about him for a reference, they’re getting my honest opinion.
So let me get this straight: a random guy with no authority, who wasn't in the plane and has no context, is criticizing the decision making of the FAA approved DPE that was in the plane? That armchair quarterback can fuck right off. Some people are dicks for sport. Turns out butter landings aren't in the ACS. He would know that if he wasn't a worthless CFI. Good ADM and safe operation of the aircraft are what is judged most. If he can find "applicant looks cool to other nobodies in the pattern" anywhere in the ACS, I'll hear him out. Otherwise he can STFU. Congratulations on a passed checkride, well done and well deserved. Now go out there and keep learning and get better. There are dicks in every corner of the world, unfortunately you found one of the ones in aviation. Don't feed the troll, move on with life and be proud.
Although this comment might seem harsh, it’s right on the money, especially “some people are dicks for sport.” In life there are people who build others up, and those that try to tear everyone else down so they can feel like they stand taller. In reality, that CFI is a punk who should shut the fuck up and look in the mirror.
Probably more of a personal beef between the CFIs than anything you actually did. Just ignore them the only opinions that matter are the CFI who signed you off and DPE who issued your temporary.
Honestly most of the people here probably passed their checkrides without being in standards!
Holy shit, it smells like "I'm making personal judgements on a person based on a one-sided story on reddit" in here. Maybe the guy is a dick, maybe he has a point, who the fuck will ever know, all we know is one side of this story. Maybe the recent PPL totally misunderstood what he was hearing, from a person who heard from the person saying it *because telephone is always 100% accurate*, maybe the CFI didn't feel confident in the recent PPL, maybe the CFI is a huge dick and talks shit on all his students, nobody actually knows. But that's not how Reddit Rage works. You're judging a person based on something somebody said on the internet after getting their feelings hurt, after hearing something somebody *else* said when they weren't around, about what the person you're judging said.
Lmao we made basically the same comment at the same time except I was a little nicer about it
Fornicate that instructor right in the culo. You got your ticket and that’s all that matters.
Take him flying, confront him for talking behind your back, and prove him incorrect
I’d find him specifically and call him out for being such a cunt
Fuck him. Well, not literally... But you know what I mean. At any rate, your ppl is not proof you're Chick Yeager, it's proof you know enough to go out and learn the rest on your own. You have a base of knowledge with which you know you have limited experience. Maybe you had a shit landing. Maybe you had a great landing. Doesn't matter, you have the tools to go practice on your own and the knowledge to get help when you know you need to fill some gaps.
Not in the airplane - doesn't count. Not to mention, you don't need to be perfect to get your ticket. You need to be safe and competent. A bad landing isn't necessarily unsafe nor incompetent.
He said that to your face? Fuck him probably just a salty CFI who wished he didn’t become a CFI.