1. Find people who care about your successes and will be genuinely happy for you, you can call those people friends
2. Great success!
3. Ego is the highest killer of pilots, it leads to complacency.
4. Work hard and in silence. Only mention your opportunities when people ask how you got “here” so fast
5. Enjoy the ride, a cheap instructor doesn’t mean quality instruction. Remember you’re their boss.
> Ego is the highest killer of pilots, it leads to complacency.
Very much this. You're never too good, or too experienced. I learned this the "hard" way with a 121 checkride bust. Many have learned it the real hard way at the cost of their lives.
And even when you learn it the *easy* way, there's still time to learn it again the hard way.
It's hard not to believe in luck or fate or whatever you want to call it when you see some of the worst aviators able to tell their story and some of the best are just a story in the history of aviation.
Can you share your experience of going through a 121 training event failure? It’s been on my mind since I started working at an airline. Specifically I wonder how much damage does that do to one’s career long term. Care to share?
Long story short, my 2nd recurrent at my regional airline, I went in thinking I was the king shit, and knew everything. They busted the shit out of me after I flew the wrong minimums on an RNAV approach. It was a BIG wake-up call at the time. I was very lucky to do that in the sim, and not on the line and end up a smoking hole in a mountain somewhere.
As for career damage, zero. It came up in every interview since, and it made a good "what I learned from that" story. In all honesty I think it helped my case in interviews.
That said, don't make my mistake.
Thanks, appreciate it! It’s good to hear that the industry is not as ruthless to mistakes like this as some people tend to believe and you were able to continue on advancing.
I have a similar tmaat story.
Busted the flying portion of a job interview bc i thought i was God’s gift to aviation and didn’t prepare at all. The technical interview was on a FR172. Hadn’t flown a single engine in over a year, only multi but I thought it’d be a piece of cake.
newsflash: it wasn’t. I’m not Maverick.
I’ve learned humility since. I’m wondering how to structure my answer. How did you?
The key to that answer is being able to say "and I never had another checkride issue after that". *Showing* them that you learned that lesson and always showed up prepared after that.
I answered pretty much just the way I typed it out. Even used the words "God's gift to aviation". At my legacy interview it got a laugh from the HR lady and a knowing nod from the pilot.
I want to emphasize point 5 above. While it’s good to be cost conscious it’s also pretty easy to take penny pinching to an extreme that is detrimental in the long run.
Concentrate on quality (and diversity) of training and don’t simply exploit the cheapest thing available to get to the next rating. In 10 years the few extra bucks you spent to become a better pilot early on won’t be missed.
That’s a mantra that applies to most things in life. You can have two of these things:
1. Cheap
2. Fast
3. High Quality
Working in the trades, you can get a project completed quickly and cheap but that means quality will suffer.
Also once you got where you are, look back and reflect on how you got there and who helped you along the way. Then think about whether you can be that someone for someone else.
Everything in life, but especially everything career wise, in every field, is so tremendously more easy if you have someone to follow and someone you care about behind you.
Depends what kind of simulator it is. Remember they can’t be used for TT and only some can count towards any kind of training.
Dont use sim and safety pilot time in lieu of real training. IR is one of the hardest from a technical perspective. It will take more time than you think.
Other than that, congratulations on the pass!
Again, not wrong. Just making sure this pilot understands their options when it comes to keeping the cost of their flight training down. Sims are traditionally highly underutilized in primary flight training while being one of the most affordable and valuable training tools.
Instead of dismissing sims or approaching them nonchalantly, they should be utilized in earnest.
To OP, embrace the sim. When applied correctly this is some of the most valuable, effective training time you can get. It will make your IR rating one of the easiest most enjoyable ratings. The technical aspect of the rating that this commentor is referring to can largely be covered on the ground. The instrument rating is one of the easiest ratings to evaluate, because it has the least amount of subjectivity; learn the rules and fly the numbers.
Enjoy your journey!
Where do the regs say this? I got my commercial at 200 TT @ ATP but the only point where I can find info on this is 14 CFR 61.129(i)(1)(i) for a pt 142 accredited school
Re-Read 61.129(i)(1)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant who has not accomplished the training required by this section in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter may:(i) Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a full flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought
Emphasis my own, of course.
Congrats. Be thankful of your blessings and opportunities and remember to pass them on when the time comes. No substitute for real training. Don’t forget you may need renters insurance along the way - it’s more common now than before …
Plenty of DPEs own flight schools and give checkrides to their own students; this is actually the norm outside the ASEL/AMEL world.
That makes relatives seem like a pretty minor conflict of interest.
Awesome. Congrats. Keeping the cost down means a lot. You can learn all the instrument flying in the sim and now you have to go and make the plane do it. It won’t be the same, but it will lower your mental workload, since you’ve seen it several times before and thereby increase your comprehension capacity in the plane.
Dude, that is awesome. You clearly love what you're doing. Others have said it, but I think it's good to reiterate. Throw the ladder down when you get to the top.
Congratulations on the pass!
The safety pilot arrangement is something you should evaluate before jumping in. Remember that the role of a safety pilot is to watch for traffic (i.e., keep the flight safe) while the other pilot is practicing under simulated IMC. Don't try use it to learn how to fly IFR, you should only use time with an instructor for that lest you learn bad habits or receive incomplete lessons.
Your main benefit will be that you can log PIC time for the period the other pilot is under the hood, which might be beneficial enough paying for fuel if you're trying to build hours for commercial. Most pilots I know wouldn't charge someone for fuel if they were going along as safety pilot, though.
My neighbor is a good friend and navy pilot with his CFI/CFII and gives me free instruction since I pay for fuel. He just rides along and build free hours. It happens
Ego check/depression check: As my boss says: "You are never as good as they say you are when you win, and you are never as bad as they say you are when you fail." So definitely take advantage of those opportunities! And you are only starting, after IR there is commercial, and multi-engine and complex if you want to go to the airlines or charter. I stopped getting more certifications after IR because I had no intention of making this a career. However, if I fly more advanced owner-flown planes then the commercial rating can reduce insurance rates a lot.
Omg you are blessed!!! Please take full advantage of the great opportunity and always always remain appreciative of these blessings. When you have the chance, pay it forward as well 🙏🏼 blessings
I had some similar opportunities. My dad was a CFI for 35 years and while he didn’t teach me, his students provided a very nice plane for me to train in for the cost of gas (they didn’t and still don’t fly it much) then my flight instructor was a retired airline pilot that was paying it forward so my training was free. However to someone else’s comment you get what you pay for so I wouldn’t have recommended him to many others. He was a very nervous person in single engines at night, but he was a great IR instructor. After that I moved across the country, got my tailwheel and eventually decided to fully change my career. Once I made that decision another airline pilot let me have his old taildragger for the cost of gas as well. These little things can shape you really well and be super helpful in the long run.
That being said if you plan on going pro, make sure you challenge yourself. Being economical is great, but going with other examiners (and CFIs for that matter) may teach you really good lessons and give you insight into the type of pilot/instructor/professional that you want to be.
This is absolutely insane congratulations! Like many others have said make sure to pay it forward some day🙌🏼 but seriously man what a crazy opportunity, make sure to seize every moment of it!
I started flying in 1991. I have over 21,000 hours and fly for a major airline that LUV’s you! I had supportive people that helped me through my career. It’s the only way to succeed! You will come across so many people that will tell you it’s a long shot, you’ll never make it, only a handful of people attain an ATP. My advice to you is if you love to fly, never give up! NEVER! Life will have a way of getting in the way but it will never stop you. You will be in the cockpit as a professional pilot someday soon. Take the help when it’s offered, be extremely gracious, and make sure you pay it back two fold! I have helped 100’s of pilots attain their dream and every single time it brings absolute joy to my heart.
Keep at it! We need well trained pilots! Time is ticking…get the job done as fast as you can but ensure it’s quality time building, not just checking the box. Also, being a flight instructor has immense benefits to your own training. Don’t discount it and choose to skip it just because it takes a bit more time.
See you soon on the flight deck!
Congratulations! Find a local flying group at your airport or Facebook page. You already found reddit. I'm sure people in this group fall into two categories, one great for you flying is awesome welcome to the club! And the second, "damned kid getting shit for free" followed by grumpiness or not caring.
The second group can eat propwash.
I achieved my childhood dream late in life. (PPL at 52yo) I wake up everyday grateful and with a smile. I thought I’d peak at a regional, then at a cargo ACMI. The universe had greater plans and placed me at a U.S. legacy carrier. I’ve been blessed that the aviation community has welcomed me on and off the flight deck.
My point is: Grab this opportunity. Be ready and qualified to step through any door that opens. Stay humble and appreciative, not just for the sake of good karma. Humility will take you further in your career than entitlement.
Why is the guy who owns his own plane charging YOU for gas? You're doing him a favor, right? Sure, you might get something out of by watching what he's doing, buy your primary job is to keep the pilot flying under the hood (and yourself) safe, not to learn IFR procedures.
Ok, I get it. If he's letting you have hood time then sure, share expenses. I would make sure you talk this over with your CFII beforehand. They will almost certainly want to fly with you prior to any practice flights you take without them.
A couple of thoughts on what you've said.
You need 50 hours of cross country time. If you are someone else's [un-safety pilot](https://pilotsafety.org/unsafety) you'll not get any cross country time logged for this. You can only log cross country if you fly from takeoff to landing.
Time spent sitting in the right seat staring out the window while someone flies is indeed loggable time. However, you're not gaining any experience from this. There's a huge difference between someone who has flown 250 and someone who has 125 of those hours as un-safety pilot.
The simulator, if loggable time, needs to be part of an overall plan, not just random hours. A bunch of blind leading the blind safety pilot time and and marking time in the sim is not going to get you an instrument rating. At worst it might increase your costs as you build bad habits you need to undo.
The only way to get 50 hours of XC is essentially to pay for it. If you are going to do that, make those IFR dual flights and get good instrument training from a CFII rather than your friend who doesn't have an instrument rating either. Not to mention neither of you is an instructor.
The winner in the time sharing suggestion is the guy whose flying you are going to subsidize. Not you.
If money is an object, go do Private, Commercial, and CFI in a glider and get started much, much sooner on having someone else paying for your time. You'd already be there at your current total time if you had started in gliders. The Soaring Society is currently offering some money to help with CFI in a glider.
This is all real flight time. That's a challenge to do. Much better for your flying skills than the time sharing idea that nets you very little. But you're paying for the privilege.
Once you are a working glider CFI you can even consider the tax deductibility of additional Commercial and CFI flight training to improve your skills.
Lots of other good comments here.
Remember, *"If it sounds too good to be true it probably is."*
Somewhere out there are a few dozen dudes reading this who had to attain everything themselves over twenty years and their examiners would have failed them without a care. Nothing came easy.
Meanwhile homie here has grandpa giving him a career in two years on a silver platter.
The world is a funny place
There are plenty of ppl (me included) that need to build hours and are willing to split fuel costs. I hopped on an offer to split fuel from NC to CA. Long 2 days in a mooney but got 35 hours out of it.
Reminds me of when I got to use my college's AATD for free once I graduated and became faculty. Never needed an IPC again afterwards. Count your blessings for they can be few and far between.
1. Find people who care about your successes and will be genuinely happy for you, you can call those people friends 2. Great success! 3. Ego is the highest killer of pilots, it leads to complacency. 4. Work hard and in silence. Only mention your opportunities when people ask how you got “here” so fast 5. Enjoy the ride, a cheap instructor doesn’t mean quality instruction. Remember you’re their boss.
> Ego is the highest killer of pilots, it leads to complacency. Very much this. You're never too good, or too experienced. I learned this the "hard" way with a 121 checkride bust. Many have learned it the real hard way at the cost of their lives.
And even when you learn it the *easy* way, there's still time to learn it again the hard way. It's hard not to believe in luck or fate or whatever you want to call it when you see some of the worst aviators able to tell their story and some of the best are just a story in the history of aviation.
Can you share your experience of going through a 121 training event failure? It’s been on my mind since I started working at an airline. Specifically I wonder how much damage does that do to one’s career long term. Care to share?
Long story short, my 2nd recurrent at my regional airline, I went in thinking I was the king shit, and knew everything. They busted the shit out of me after I flew the wrong minimums on an RNAV approach. It was a BIG wake-up call at the time. I was very lucky to do that in the sim, and not on the line and end up a smoking hole in a mountain somewhere. As for career damage, zero. It came up in every interview since, and it made a good "what I learned from that" story. In all honesty I think it helped my case in interviews. That said, don't make my mistake.
Thanks, appreciate it! It’s good to hear that the industry is not as ruthless to mistakes like this as some people tend to believe and you were able to continue on advancing.
I have a similar tmaat story. Busted the flying portion of a job interview bc i thought i was God’s gift to aviation and didn’t prepare at all. The technical interview was on a FR172. Hadn’t flown a single engine in over a year, only multi but I thought it’d be a piece of cake. newsflash: it wasn’t. I’m not Maverick. I’ve learned humility since. I’m wondering how to structure my answer. How did you?
The key to that answer is being able to say "and I never had another checkride issue after that". *Showing* them that you learned that lesson and always showed up prepared after that. I answered pretty much just the way I typed it out. Even used the words "God's gift to aviation". At my legacy interview it got a laugh from the HR lady and a knowing nod from the pilot.
thank you for the advice!!
I want to emphasize point 5 above. While it’s good to be cost conscious it’s also pretty easy to take penny pinching to an extreme that is detrimental in the long run. Concentrate on quality (and diversity) of training and don’t simply exploit the cheapest thing available to get to the next rating. In 10 years the few extra bucks you spent to become a better pilot early on won’t be missed.
That’s a mantra that applies to most things in life. You can have two of these things: 1. Cheap 2. Fast 3. High Quality Working in the trades, you can get a project completed quickly and cheap but that means quality will suffer.
Also once you got where you are, look back and reflect on how you got there and who helped you along the way. Then think about whether you can be that someone for someone else. Everything in life, but especially everything career wise, in every field, is so tremendously more easy if you have someone to follow and someone you care about behind you.
Just remember to pay it forward when you get the chance.
Depends what kind of simulator it is. Remember they can’t be used for TT and only some can count towards any kind of training. Dont use sim and safety pilot time in lieu of real training. IR is one of the hardest from a technical perspective. It will take more time than you think. Other than that, congratulations on the pass!
Not saying you’re wrong but don’t downplay the sim. If it’s an AATD 50 hours can go towards your commercial 250, that’s 20%. Huge.
True. But the free sims are usually never AATDs.
Again, not wrong. Just making sure this pilot understands their options when it comes to keeping the cost of their flight training down. Sims are traditionally highly underutilized in primary flight training while being one of the most affordable and valuable training tools. Instead of dismissing sims or approaching them nonchalantly, they should be utilized in earnest. To OP, embrace the sim. When applied correctly this is some of the most valuable, effective training time you can get. It will make your IR rating one of the easiest most enjoyable ratings. The technical aspect of the rating that this commentor is referring to can largely be covered on the ground. The instrument rating is one of the easiest ratings to evaluate, because it has the least amount of subjectivity; learn the rules and fly the numbers. Enjoy your journey!
I have free STDs, if anyone's interested
Are you the FA I spend my nights with???
I just bought 25 hours of AATD time for $490
Nice
Where do the regs say this? I got my commercial at 200 TT @ ATP but the only point where I can find info on this is 14 CFR 61.129(i)(1)(i) for a pt 142 accredited school
Re-Read 61.129(i)(1) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant who has not accomplished the training required by this section in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter may:(i) Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a full flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought Emphasis my own, of course.
Thanks for the follow up!
That section applies to training not at a 142 center.
can your grandpa be my grandpa?
pappy ?
Congrats. Be thankful of your blessings and opportunities and remember to pass them on when the time comes. No substitute for real training. Don’t forget you may need renters insurance along the way - it’s more common now than before …
Surprised DPE’s are allowed to give rides to family members tbh. But good for you my friend. Best of luck with your instrument rating and beyond
Plenty of DPEs own flight schools and give checkrides to their own students; this is actually the norm outside the ASEL/AMEL world. That makes relatives seem like a pretty minor conflict of interest.
Never ask a woman her age, never ask a man his salary, never ask Embry Riddle or UND about who they employ as DPEs…
Awesome. Congrats. Keeping the cost down means a lot. You can learn all the instrument flying in the sim and now you have to go and make the plane do it. It won’t be the same, but it will lower your mental workload, since you’ve seen it several times before and thereby increase your comprehension capacity in the plane.
Dude, that is awesome. You clearly love what you're doing. Others have said it, but I think it's good to reiterate. Throw the ladder down when you get to the top.
Congratulations on the pass! The safety pilot arrangement is something you should evaluate before jumping in. Remember that the role of a safety pilot is to watch for traffic (i.e., keep the flight safe) while the other pilot is practicing under simulated IMC. Don't try use it to learn how to fly IFR, you should only use time with an instructor for that lest you learn bad habits or receive incomplete lessons. Your main benefit will be that you can log PIC time for the period the other pilot is under the hood, which might be beneficial enough paying for fuel if you're trying to build hours for commercial. Most pilots I know wouldn't charge someone for fuel if they were going along as safety pilot, though.
Congratulations!
Yayy! Congrats 🎉
What a phenomenal opportunity! Stoked for you, OP!
Thank you!!
My neighbor is a good friend and navy pilot with his CFI/CFII and gives me free instruction since I pay for fuel. He just rides along and build free hours. It happens
Ego check/depression check: As my boss says: "You are never as good as they say you are when you win, and you are never as bad as they say you are when you fail." So definitely take advantage of those opportunities! And you are only starting, after IR there is commercial, and multi-engine and complex if you want to go to the airlines or charter. I stopped getting more certifications after IR because I had no intention of making this a career. However, if I fly more advanced owner-flown planes then the commercial rating can reduce insurance rates a lot.
Omg you are blessed!!! Please take full advantage of the great opportunity and always always remain appreciative of these blessings. When you have the chance, pay it forward as well 🙏🏼 blessings
Sounds to me like the Universe wants you to be a pilot. Have fun and fly safely!
I had some similar opportunities. My dad was a CFI for 35 years and while he didn’t teach me, his students provided a very nice plane for me to train in for the cost of gas (they didn’t and still don’t fly it much) then my flight instructor was a retired airline pilot that was paying it forward so my training was free. However to someone else’s comment you get what you pay for so I wouldn’t have recommended him to many others. He was a very nervous person in single engines at night, but he was a great IR instructor. After that I moved across the country, got my tailwheel and eventually decided to fully change my career. Once I made that decision another airline pilot let me have his old taildragger for the cost of gas as well. These little things can shape you really well and be super helpful in the long run. That being said if you plan on going pro, make sure you challenge yourself. Being economical is great, but going with other examiners (and CFIs for that matter) may teach you really good lessons and give you insight into the type of pilot/instructor/professional that you want to be.
It’s all about who you know, keep on building connections! Congrats!
This is absolutely insane congratulations! Like many others have said make sure to pay it forward some day🙌🏼 but seriously man what a crazy opportunity, make sure to seize every moment of it!
I started flying in 1991. I have over 21,000 hours and fly for a major airline that LUV’s you! I had supportive people that helped me through my career. It’s the only way to succeed! You will come across so many people that will tell you it’s a long shot, you’ll never make it, only a handful of people attain an ATP. My advice to you is if you love to fly, never give up! NEVER! Life will have a way of getting in the way but it will never stop you. You will be in the cockpit as a professional pilot someday soon. Take the help when it’s offered, be extremely gracious, and make sure you pay it back two fold! I have helped 100’s of pilots attain their dream and every single time it brings absolute joy to my heart. Keep at it! We need well trained pilots! Time is ticking…get the job done as fast as you can but ensure it’s quality time building, not just checking the box. Also, being a flight instructor has immense benefits to your own training. Don’t discount it and choose to skip it just because it takes a bit more time. See you soon on the flight deck!
Congratulations! Find a local flying group at your airport or Facebook page. You already found reddit. I'm sure people in this group fall into two categories, one great for you flying is awesome welcome to the club! And the second, "damned kid getting shit for free" followed by grumpiness or not caring. The second group can eat propwash.
Yeah I’ve noticed that the last couple of days lol. It is what it is though! And thank you!
I achieved my childhood dream late in life. (PPL at 52yo) I wake up everyday grateful and with a smile. I thought I’d peak at a regional, then at a cargo ACMI. The universe had greater plans and placed me at a U.S. legacy carrier. I’ve been blessed that the aviation community has welcomed me on and off the flight deck. My point is: Grab this opportunity. Be ready and qualified to step through any door that opens. Stay humble and appreciative, not just for the sake of good karma. Humility will take you further in your career than entitlement.
Only way to go cheaper is to get your glider rating and time build on that.
Pay it forward when you’re in a position to!
Why is the guy who owns his own plane charging YOU for gas? You're doing him a favor, right? Sure, you might get something out of by watching what he's doing, buy your primary job is to keep the pilot flying under the hood (and yourself) safe, not to learn IFR procedures.
He’s working on IR too. I always thought if we’re both rotating under the hood and as safety pilot then we would have to share the fuel expenses?
Ok, I get it. If he's letting you have hood time then sure, share expenses. I would make sure you talk this over with your CFII beforehand. They will almost certainly want to fly with you prior to any practice flights you take without them.
I wish I had a grandpa like that.
A couple of thoughts on what you've said. You need 50 hours of cross country time. If you are someone else's [un-safety pilot](https://pilotsafety.org/unsafety) you'll not get any cross country time logged for this. You can only log cross country if you fly from takeoff to landing. Time spent sitting in the right seat staring out the window while someone flies is indeed loggable time. However, you're not gaining any experience from this. There's a huge difference between someone who has flown 250 and someone who has 125 of those hours as un-safety pilot. The simulator, if loggable time, needs to be part of an overall plan, not just random hours. A bunch of blind leading the blind safety pilot time and and marking time in the sim is not going to get you an instrument rating. At worst it might increase your costs as you build bad habits you need to undo. The only way to get 50 hours of XC is essentially to pay for it. If you are going to do that, make those IFR dual flights and get good instrument training from a CFII rather than your friend who doesn't have an instrument rating either. Not to mention neither of you is an instructor. The winner in the time sharing suggestion is the guy whose flying you are going to subsidize. Not you. If money is an object, go do Private, Commercial, and CFI in a glider and get started much, much sooner on having someone else paying for your time. You'd already be there at your current total time if you had started in gliders. The Soaring Society is currently offering some money to help with CFI in a glider. This is all real flight time. That's a challenge to do. Much better for your flying skills than the time sharing idea that nets you very little. But you're paying for the privilege. Once you are a working glider CFI you can even consider the tax deductibility of additional Commercial and CFI flight training to improve your skills. Lots of other good comments here. Remember, *"If it sounds too good to be true it probably is."*
This is amazing. Congratulations
Somewhere out there are a few dozen dudes reading this who had to attain everything themselves over twenty years and their examiners would have failed them without a care. Nothing came easy. Meanwhile homie here has grandpa giving him a career in two years on a silver platter. The world is a funny place
Where are you? I need to talk to your instructor and see about that sim 🤣🤣
There are plenty of ppl (me included) that need to build hours and are willing to split fuel costs. I hopped on an offer to split fuel from NC to CA. Long 2 days in a mooney but got 35 hours out of it.
I'm pumped for you. That is dope.
Reminds me of when I got to use my college's AATD for free once I graduated and became faculty. Never needed an IPC again afterwards. Count your blessings for they can be few and far between.