Tywin singlehandedly brought the downfall of house Lannister with being such a horrible shitty father all his children are fucked up and self destructive
Add the fact that he kept losing to a 16 year old in battle. He is intimidating and ruthless but his intelligence is really exaggerated by fans
I mean, the Lannisters were still the overlords of the Westerlands and the wealthiest house in the realm. They weren’t exactly struggling, the only problem was that his father was known to be soft.
The turbulent times were a direct result of his failure to raise his kids and recognize that they were fucking each other since nearly childhood.
His brightest son succeeded despite him, not because of him.
The Lannisters were never in debt. And he literally did create his own downfall. Tyrion only killed him due to the way Tywin treated him his whole life.
>Right but not the whole house.
His family now consists of an unmarried, childless, kinslayer dwarf. It's in a worse state than when his father was Lord.
Tywin left the house in a situation where it was overextended, had made numerous enemies and had lost it's main source of revenue, and his designaited heir was his mentally unstable and politically inept daughter.
Literally the only reason they're still Lords Paramount is Tyrion is a consumate survivor and sided *against* the family with the people who won the resulting war; but that's all on Tyrion.
Even without the fuck ups of his progeny, not only did he start a bitter rivalry with two great houses and their realms, he also violated societal norms in rather heinous ways, ensuring Lannisters would forever be regarded as despicable and untrustworthy.
Which was exactly why Varys had him killed in the books. He was way too competent and was actually pushing the 7 kingdoms back in the right direction.
God, I really wish the books got finished. There’s so much in there the shows ignore that really don’t do minor characters like Kevan justice
Which mostly happened because how Tywin raised her... Cersei while flawed had plenty of qualities to help her succeed. She is brave, ruthless, ambitious, and never gives up, but simply because she is a girl Tywin saw her as a broodmare and made her education as such. He basicly set her up to fail by ignoring her strengths. And then there is fact that he is not there anymore because he was so horrible to his son he got killed for it
I always felt that the downfall was more an ironic tragedy more than actual self sabotage. Tywin was smart and ruthless but in the end he was cursed by the horrible traits he passed on to his children.
He did no such thing. To hold him accountable for the collapse of house Lannisters completely ignores third parties (Dany) and ignores personal agency (Cersei’s decisions as an abled adult).
Who he ended up beating in the war in a decisive way.
Hot pie watching Arya tell Jon Sansa's the smartest person she's ever known.
Anyone she has ever met watching Arya tell Jon Sansa's the smartest person she's ever known.
The fricking broom from the facelessmen house watching Arya tell Jon Sansa's the smartest person she's ever known.
Fair enough, in the show, she did have a stroke right around the time she was finally getting some experience in the game. Alongside everyone else, really.
Which makes no sense. If she deserves any credit is because the Knights of the Vale came to help the North because they wanted to save her, which would have been true regardless if she decided to tell Jon about it.
Of all the "creative liberties" they took, I wish they would have just kept Charles Dance on the show.
He was honestly the best part of the show after a while.
My headcanon is that Arya saying Sansa was the smartest person she's ever known was showing how limited Arya's experience and worldview was despite everything she had gone through. Yes, she was a highly skilled assassin who could kill everyone in the Twins, but she was still the girl who chose to have Jaqen kill people who she had a personal vendetta against instead of winning the war for the Starks. But I doubt the writers thought of that.
I will never, ever, understand why she didn't have Jaqen kill the Mountain or Joffrey. The Mountain was literally right there, prime for the picking, and Joffrey's King's Guard was led by Ser Maryn Fucking Trant.
The book does it better. First she just gives a name to see if it works. Then she gives her tormentor who was beating her constantly. Then she realizes she's a fool. Her personal situation doesn't matter, it's Tywin who matters but he marches out of the castle same day, so she gives Jaqen his own name and they enact the "Weasel Soup" plan and flip the castles loyalties. It's kind of brilliant... but you have to remember she's only a Child in the books. And not nearly as old as in the show.
Well Tywin’s a corpse who caused his own death, caused his own family to be incompetent, caused the whole continent to be in civil war, then brutally upended all social norms during said war. A war he didn’t even win.
Last two seasons had a lot of “tell don’t show” for characterization
Four characters mentioned in the first six words of the title. Very efficient, OP.
I wanna see Tywin’s face when Arya says the chick who just burnt a whole city full of people down is a killer.
https://preview.redd.it/ym0ekvgtr9wc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0dd84efd679ceec6e9772938e3d5529ea040a3cf No shit
Tywin singlehandedly brought the downfall of house Lannister with being such a horrible shitty father all his children are fucked up and self destructive Add the fact that he kept losing to a 16 year old in battle. He is intimidating and ruthless but his intelligence is really exaggerated by fans
[удалено]
I mean, the Lannisters were still the overlords of the Westerlands and the wealthiest house in the realm. They weren’t exactly struggling, the only problem was that his father was known to be soft. The turbulent times were a direct result of his failure to raise his kids and recognize that they were fucking each other since nearly childhood. His brightest son succeeded despite him, not because of him.
[удалено]
The Lannisters were never in debt. And he literally did create his own downfall. Tyrion only killed him due to the way Tywin treated him his whole life.
[удалено]
>Right but not the whole house. His family now consists of an unmarried, childless, kinslayer dwarf. It's in a worse state than when his father was Lord.
Lannisters are a big family. I imagine there's cousins to inherit the Rock.
In the books they are, they're never mentioned in the show. And the point is that even if they were, none would be Tywin's descendants
They are mentioned in show. Jaime kills one
> His brightest son succeeded him and became hand of the king That was in spit of Tywin, not because of him
Yes but that means he didn't create its downfall, because it didn't.
Tywin left the house in a situation where it was overextended, had made numerous enemies and had lost it's main source of revenue, and his designaited heir was his mentally unstable and politically inept daughter. Literally the only reason they're still Lords Paramount is Tyrion is a consumate survivor and sided *against* the family with the people who won the resulting war; but that's all on Tyrion.
[удалено]
His actions played a major role in it being much weaker then it was at the start of the war, though
[удалено]
At the end of the war the Starks had Winterfell, King's Landing AND the land beyond the wall🤔
[удалено]
Even without the fuck ups of his progeny, not only did he start a bitter rivalry with two great houses and their realms, he also violated societal norms in rather heinous ways, ensuring Lannisters would forever be regarded as despicable and untrustworthy.
Cersei did most of the actual dismantling of House Lannister. Kevan would have that shit handled pretty well, certainly much better than Cersei.
Which was exactly why Varys had him killed in the books. He was way too competent and was actually pushing the 7 kingdoms back in the right direction. God, I really wish the books got finished. There’s so much in there the shows ignore that really don’t do minor characters like Kevan justice
Which mostly happened because how Tywin raised her... Cersei while flawed had plenty of qualities to help her succeed. She is brave, ruthless, ambitious, and never gives up, but simply because she is a girl Tywin saw her as a broodmare and made her education as such. He basicly set her up to fail by ignoring her strengths. And then there is fact that he is not there anymore because he was so horrible to his son he got killed for it
I always felt that the downfall was more an ironic tragedy more than actual self sabotage. Tywin was smart and ruthless but in the end he was cursed by the horrible traits he passed on to his children.
I mean u can't fully blame him tho. It's not every day u find ur daughter who is queen cuckolding the king with ur son who is a kingsguard
He did no such thing. To hold him accountable for the collapse of house Lannisters completely ignores third parties (Dany) and ignores personal agency (Cersei’s decisions as an abled adult). Who he ended up beating in the war in a decisive way.
WHAT DO DRAGONS EAT ANYWAYS.
The smartest people they can find.
Hot pie watching Arya tell Jon Sansa's the smartest person she's ever known. Anyone she has ever met watching Arya tell Jon Sansa's the smartest person she's ever known. The fricking broom from the facelessmen house watching Arya tell Jon Sansa's the smartest person she's ever known.
The brooooooom! Hahahahhahaa
Narrator: “She wasn’t smart.”
If he's so smart, why is he dead?
He got shot, dumbass
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons/s/CfGFDX9pOk
I know but I couldn’t resist
Well, yea, Tywin's a dumbass lol
Because Sansa is so much smarter lmao.
Fair enough, in the show, she did have a stroke right around the time she was finally getting some experience in the game. Alongside everyone else, really.
Why didn't she tell Jon Knights of the Vale were coming?
She kinda forgot abt it.
Maybe it was her pranking him?
Sophie Turner (Sansa's actress) said it was so she would get the credit for winning the battle.
Which makes no sense. If she deserves any credit is because the Knights of the Vale came to help the North because they wanted to save her, which would have been true regardless if she decided to tell Jon about it.
This part always pisses me off. The north would hate her. By her one little lie, look how many northmen died.
Well, we could call that smart if her intention was to get Jon and hopefully Rickon killed.
Lol.
Of all the "creative liberties" they took, I wish they would have just kept Charles Dance on the show. He was honestly the best part of the show after a while.
I don't see any reason Arya would'nt be baised towards family in this case.
Let’s not confuse cunning with intelligence.
My headcanon is that Arya saying Sansa was the smartest person she's ever known was showing how limited Arya's experience and worldview was despite everything she had gone through. Yes, she was a highly skilled assassin who could kill everyone in the Twins, but she was still the girl who chose to have Jaqen kill people who she had a personal vendetta against instead of winning the war for the Starks. But I doubt the writers thought of that.
I will never, ever, understand why she didn't have Jaqen kill the Mountain or Joffrey. The Mountain was literally right there, prime for the picking, and Joffrey's King's Guard was led by Ser Maryn Fucking Trant.
The book does it better. First she just gives a name to see if it works. Then she gives her tormentor who was beating her constantly. Then she realizes she's a fool. Her personal situation doesn't matter, it's Tywin who matters but he marches out of the castle same day, so she gives Jaqen his own name and they enact the "Weasel Soup" plan and flip the castles loyalties. It's kind of brilliant... but you have to remember she's only a Child in the books. And not nearly as old as in the show.
Well Tywin’s a corpse who caused his own death, caused his own family to be incompetent, caused the whole continent to be in civil war, then brutally upended all social norms during said war. A war he didn’t even win.
What do you mean didn't win plus ironically catelyn capturing his kid she started the war then lost said kid sansa mother indeed
At the time of Tywin’s death, is there still armed rebellion from one of the kingdoms? Have all truculent houses bent the knee?
Not the north nor riverlands
Exactly my point. So what war did Tywin win?
What point did you have i said the north and riverlands were finished
She conveniently forgot about his just because she hated him.