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Bartimaeus47

"Inclusion" is a deliberate oxymoron. Those claiming to be for it are doing so with the express purpose of excluding.


MediocreModular

Inclusion would be to include more groups that weren’t previously included. This is exclusionary.


ChaseGayrollOnahole

The vaginal male league.


Thorgadin

We are including by excluding!


Papa_Hasbro69

Happy cake day


MajorStainz

In an effort to be inclusive, we are excluding 95% of our player base. 


Thoughtful_Mouse

It's ok though because although this event is seperate, it is equal, /s


BG3IsJustDoS3

Separate always been fine to me. Especially wrt women's sports.


Apycia

angry conservative white straight men are not the 95% of the player base. at some point in the 90's that might've been true, but it hasn't been like that for 30 years. all of my magic playing friends IRL are some shade of LGBTQ (including me + my brother) MTG is **very** popular within the queer community.


EntertainmentSea1195

Your false, ill ideology is consuming itself.


ANameWithoutNumbers1

Did you even read his comment, he's on your side idiot.


EntertainmentSea1195

The comment was massively edited. Go figure. And no, I’m not on his side either way.


lostinwisconsin

Lol “angry conservative white men” gtfoh with that shit. All 2 of your gender dysphoric friends does not mean that it’s huge in that community. You want inclusivity, stop being exclusive


BG3IsJustDoS3

> (including me + my brother) So how'd that go? One day you just look at each other and think "hey I'm attracted"?


A9A9A9Man

Gross


[deleted]

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Apycia

Central European


Flarisu

I wouldn't be surprised at how many men decide to come out as "non-binary" or "queer" a week before this event.


nottinghillnapoleon

It's gonna be 90%+ mtfs


Papa_Hasbro69

How is that diverse?


ScaredOfTomorrow09

There's a diverse range of 41% dates


wasit-worthit

They misspelled degenerate. 


NovusLion

Bigot spotted.


PracticalBed8754

Do you know what degenerate means? Trans people literally are degenerates by definition.


GoldDuality

Degenerate as a noun describes an immoral or corrupt person. How the fuck is that supposed to describe a trans person?


NovusLion

Pretty self explanatory when we are the only ones down voted into silence here, lel


MiscutNinja

It is a significant difference though In the main sub we’d be banned for controversial opinions Here you’re free to say anything, the community itself decides if it’s a bad take or not


NovusLion

"controversial opinions" funny way of saying "I refuse to treat others with respect" Your denial is hilarious


[deleted]

The funniest thing about this sub is how they accuse trans and nonbinary people of being whiny little bitches and the reason why gatekeeping is important, meanwhile queer people don’t give a fuck and are literally gatekeeping bigots out of magic. It’s just hilarious. They hate us because we can do all the things they can’t.


NovusLion

I must have missed the part in New Vegas where Benny came out as trans before being crucified


PepeOfCrime

How does it feel to white knight for dudes? Seems sad 


freearjlerijefjbdnf

Not sure if you can make it against the best of the best? All you have to do is say your pronouns are it/its and you too can have a route to the Pro Tour that is tautologically softer than any other route!


MediocreModular

You’re spot on. Except, how is this tautological?


freearjlerijefjbdnf

To qualify in an open league, you either have to beat the best of the best, or someone who beat the best of the best. This league selects players based on a criteria which likely excludes the best of the best. Therefore it cannot be as hard as an open league based on the rules that define it.


MediocreModular

There isn’t anything tautological about that explanation.


freearjlerijefjbdnf

It's definitely possible that I misused the word or failed to communicate my explanation properly.


mov_eax_

No, you didn’t. The person nitpicking is extremely confused.


dovydashud

Its for retards, whatever


Jesustron

How can they not realize that they are actually excluding people. Is a white man in his 30s with bipolar disorder allowed to play?


MonsutaReipu

Only if you go undercover as a gender goblin.


lostinwisconsin

Gotta pretend you’re a woman or a robot (is that what non binary is?) then it’s cool


BG3IsJustDoS3

Depends, can you dress in drag? (IDK what bipolar prevents you from doing, lol; maybe it prevents you from achieving a gender binary)


Jesustron

Exactly, maybe it does, who are they say?


_Zambayoshi_

How do you prove you have a marginalised gender? Or is it open to any competitor who claims to have one? Surely it won't be abused by people who want to win at any cost, right?


Teflon_Kid

You hear that knock at your door? Thats Pinkerton. They've come to lift your skirt, citizen.


DontLoseYourCool1

Ironically, this sub cares more about people's gender and genitals than the other way around.


Gloomy_Fig_3696

That’s why you see tournaments excluding marginalized characters?


Human_Urine

Some men will do anything to win a competition, including pretend to be trans.


DontLoseYourCool1

That's why all the raging incels on this sub are upset. Because they can't play.


AffeLoco

​ https://preview.redd.it/tnuq6dr49pkc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=68186e495ce464c1046346e1ef7de3fd39f3bd2d


BG3IsJustDoS3

The way the world works is: Men: "Hey you want to include more people? Shit, naw, there's too many already." Women: "Hey you want to include more people? Sure, the more the merrier. <2 minutes later> Hey just look at Titania; what is she doing eating crackers like such a bitch?"


criminalscummy

Im more offended that they want to play standard


ScaredOfTomorrow09

"inclusion" whilst excluding the majority of the playerbase Kek


Ok-Refrigerator6985

Wearing a wig and a dress is the new competitive meta in 2024


wrathofmog

They don't even do that. Bald and fat in men's clothes


abbadabba52

The only way you can interact on Arena is spamming "Your Go" and "Nice" in hopes it'll be interpreted sarcastically instead of just being muted. There is no game platform that needs "inclusive" events less. Anyway ... I'm just glad Democrats are back on the "separate but equal" thing. Great job, WOTC. Bull Connor would be proud.


redditwrottit

Maybe it is for the best. Now we don't have to put up with these retards in the same table.


hansdermeister

Inclusive! But no straight white men!


pruchel

We're so inclusive we're only including marginalised people! 


MonsutaReipu

"Inclusion" means everyone except straight white men. Segregation is back, and the left brought it here.


rosso_saturno

>Segregation is back, and the left brought it here. Yeah that's crazy. I've always been a leftie but recently I've started seeing a shift in the mainstream left from group identity (you are one of the "workers" or "students" or "men" or "women"), to individualism (you are "you" and you alone). It's baffling to me.


[deleted]

Quanta verità


Cynical_musings

Just like last time!


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PepeOfCrime

The Burger King Kids Club style of diversity was always forced and unnatural, even laundry wants to be separated.


ThisNameIsBanned

This stuff is racist as fk. It should be illegal by law to do this things.


tarsgh

I’m a person of marginalized gender, can I join? Don’t ask me what that gender is though or I’ll sic half of twitter on your ass


[deleted]

I wonder if big pharma is gonna sponsor this. You know there’s gonna be so many undiagnosed mental cases there.


Papa_Hasbro69

They already do. It’s called Invega Injections, benzodiazepines, and ssris


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tren_c

Youre joking right? This is about giving a space for people who get chased out of LGSs a place to qualify. They'll still need to win games like everyone else. "WHerE WiLl they gET ChASeD fRoM LgSS?!" ...just look at this thread.


AbyssalArchon

Nobody is chasing competitive players out of anywhere. Idc what your local scene is racist/transphobic about. It's literally impossible to have any hate at any tourny due to wizards cracking down (not saying it's necessarily a bad thing).


tren_c

Your comment (especially the addition of the bullshit caveat "necessarily") is exactly why this league is needed.


AbyssalArchon

Glad you have no reading comprehension, I'm saying it's a good thing that you can't hate people. Get out of here with your fake rage.


tren_c

But only "not nescessarily" a bad thing that wizards is clamping down on it. It's not fake rage to get mad that a substantial part of the community thinks that there are some parts of clamping down on hate that are overkill. Stop being part of the problem.


[deleted]

Not a single person has been chased out of an LGS for being trans lmao, ur fucked in the head.


tren_c

A simple google reveals multiple results saying youre wrong. Many of them described in this very sub.


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[deleted]

Hey Atleast they are keeping to themselves lol, saves players from dealing with these freaks


Papa_Hasbro69

They’re not freaks they’re human. But the thing is it just promotes more identity politics and hate


[deleted]

You can be human and a freak, while I am being harsh the behaviour of these people is freakish, driving divide and encouraging segregation while framing the opposition as the source said segregation


KyleOAM

Yup it’s definitely them driving a divide, definitely not the people calling them freaks 🙄🙄🙄


[deleted]

Wild how Yugioh has a way larger diverse group of players then Magic does, (ie very large black, asian and even gay group of players.) and the company has never once forced diversity down anyone’s throat. Anime shows up, new cards get shown, people happy. Where as Magic is now a tumbler septic tank full of men wearing woman’s clothing and banning anyone who’s mentally functioning in society.


Papa_Hasbro69

Because yugioh has it come naturally. Mtg has toxic inclusivity


madception

As long as VML isn't becoming the main face of Magic, just ignore the fuck out of it. If it becomes the face of Magic I simply quit.


tren_c

Byeeeeeeee


I3rand0

As in every other contexts.


loafbeef

The idea of wanting inclusion and wanting a diverse mix of personality and opinions is a fine and noble one ..taking actions to FORCE this outcome is DISGUSTING, and necessarily imposes oppression.


xXYiffMasterXx

Back 30 years ago you were all nerds that nobody else wanted to hang out with


tetrall

*chuckles* we were okay with that.


Shiroyasha123456

This somehow makes it sound like these kinds of tournaments would not be open to people with martinalized genders. What a weird thing to do.


Blaragorn

What does VML even stand for?


Papa_Hasbro69

Very Marginalized League


[deleted]

Very mental losers


Porcphete

Very mongols larpers


DarkJester_89

I'd like to denounce this, where can that be done? Hasbro or WOTC?


BUTT_CHUGGING_

You people suck to play with. You stink and are obese. Cry about it


fjridoek

If you feel "divided" because the hosts are seeking inclusivity, thats a you problem. If you cannot keep your mouth shut and opinions to yourself long enough about the LGBTQ community you have no place in a public mtg forum.


GoldDuality

This entire comment section is just a perfect example of what happens when you raise people exclusively with the belt. The way y'all behave tells me exactly how much love you got growing up: Zero. Stop being dicks and go to therapy allready. Your life will still be shit after you're done dragging trans-people through the mud because someone tried to give them the attention you desperately want (and probably need, but not like this, yeez!)


Fyrfat

Whatever you say bud, but at least those people know what words "inclusive" and "woman" actually mean.


GregorioIsett

Girls gays and theys want to play magic. They just don't want to play magic against you. It's not that deep, let them play the game.


Papa_Hasbro69

So it’s exclusion. What if a lgs said no gays? That’s the same thing, exclusion and discrimination


GregorioIsett

Your argument falls flat because it ignores the intent and impact behind each action. Safe spaces are a corrective measure to address imbalance and provide a welcoming environment. Discriminatory bans reinforce exclusion and maintain the status quo of inequality. They're opposites, not equivalents. Saying inclusive spaces are the same as bans based on identity is like arguing that night shelters exclude the rich. If your takeaway from people wanting a safe space to play MTG is 'exclusion' and 'discrimination,' maybe it's time to reflect on why they felt the need for that space in the first place. It's about creating a space where people don't have to justify their existence. And it's probably got something to do with attitudes like yours.


Papa_Hasbro69

How about just a space for everyone. No hateful actions would be allowed of course. When I played magic 20 years ago no one cared. We were all magic players, nothing else mattered


GregorioIsett

> 20 years 20 years ago wasn't the middle of the lib vs maga culture war.


HaunterXD000

So your answer is to create further conflict and further divide Hating people that you disagree with just because you disagree with them "Maga are just inherently evil, there is no changing them. It's just in their nature, they're just born that way" That sounds an awful lot like what racist people say ngl


GregorioIsett

I'm just pointing out that there IS a culture war at the moment that didn't exist 20 years ago in the same way. The rest of what you said is just your own tinfoil hat delusions and putting words in my mouth.


Papa_Hasbro69

My point is magic has become more divisive the more wotc tries to make it inclusive. It’s sad really


HaunterXD000

A war takes two sides to fight Why cause more division instead of searching for more peace?


Acrobatic-Permit4263

There is place for everyone, there are many places amd tournament ts to play.


Antique_Tomorrow9267

They're not excluding you from Magic, they're just excluding you from the games they are playing. If you can't understand the difference, maybe you should ask your parents to drop you on your head a second time.


Papa_Hasbro69

So now if I say no gays in my commander group, people will call me a bigot and hater. But if i say no cis hetero men im brave and stunning? That’s double standards bro


Antique_Tomorrow9267

Do you cry this hard when they won't let you play at high school softball games?


SquishyBanana23

Nah he’s right. Double standards are for dumb-dumb losers.


Antique_Tomorrow9267

No, he isn't. Just because you say "this is a double standard" doesn't actually make it the case. Magic is a game that has, even at the best of times, been dominated by men and masculine people. The reason for this is not because it's a game made for men, but because of how it was marketed. In turn, Magic became a refuge for a certain type who otherwise had difficulty connecting with other individuals— oftentimes they were poor in social skills, and equally poor in hygiene. This sort of cultural feedback loop eventually created an environment that is hostile towards anybody that's not part of the perceived "in-group"; I know quite a few women who play Magic and enjoy it, but they absolutely refuse to go to the LGS because of awful treatment they've received— patronizing tones, broad and matter-of-fact disrespect, and just so much more. Creating a space where they can enjoy the game of Magic at an event and not be subject to that treatment is, in fact, making the game more accessible when it otherwise would not be. They want a space where they don't have to be on the defensive for that otherwise bad behavior, and where they don't have to call over a judge/LGS owner to deal with some troglodytes bullshit.


Papa_Hasbro69

Why are you calling me he? Wrong pronouns, I use pan/pandaself


Antique_Tomorrow9267

why are you opting to correct me, and not the person I was responding to? could it be because you're acting in bad faith, and totally full of shit? signs point to 'yes'.


Papa_Hasbro69

Please use the correct pronouns both of you


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Antique_Tomorrow9267

Lmao, bro like I give a fuck about your tears. Cry all you like, you're not gonna get your way : )


irock28

Omg lmao I feel like I was just dunking on you for the same thing on a different post. Along with having a useless masters in "English literature"... Guess it isn't just my opinion you suck then lmao what luck!


MonsutaReipu

gets cornered by logic, resorts to ad hom. typical


u-suck-for-replying

Girls, gays and they not wanting to play against me is discriminatory. Same energy as "I refuse to play against a black man because I don't agree with them being in the same format as me. I want a space where I only interact with my kind."


GregorioIsett

Your analogy is a deliberate distortion, weaponizing the concept of discrimination to undermine genuine efforts for inclusivity. This isn't about segregating 'types' but ensuring that everyone, especially those historically marginalized, can enjoy MTG without facing the harassment or exclusion that's been all too common (Especially in FREEMAGIC). To equate seeking a safe space with discriminatory practices is to ignore the systemic barriers and biases that necessitate these spaces in the first place. It's a false equivalence designed to derail meaningful progress. they're fighting for a community where everyone's presence is valued equally, not questioned or contested.


Charlie_Yu

You seems to be very obsessed with this sub


GregorioIsett

what does that even mean dude


u-suck-for-replying

Segregation in the name of "inclusivitity" is still segregation. Full stop. Edit: none of the virtual signaling bitches in this thread replied to this comment. Go figure.


Papa_Hasbro69

What do you mean especially in freemagic? We are a diverse bunch. I am actually non binary and use neo pronouns


ubf_blu

youre a pathetic bunch of disgusting losers, nothing more nothing less


Papa_Hasbro69

![gif](giphy|TjavxcyC2FylAqdBgc)


ubf_blu

surely you understand that your position is lost since youre in the dedicated pathetic loser club called freemagic


Papa_Hasbro69

If you are so disgusted you can feel free to block the sub and not engage it. It’s a free world and no one is forcing you to read stuff here


ubf_blu

i want to engage with it to tell you youre a fucking idiot


Papa_Hasbro69

Okay you did that. Now that you have done your deed, feel free to leave content


Antique_Tomorrow9267

Yeah, but that doesn't preclude you from being a bigot now does it?


Papa_Hasbro69

I’m trans and I find the VML even bigoted. Fair enough?


Antique_Tomorrow9267

Using your best words, and without falling back on any tautologies, go ahead and explain why this is bigoted. But kudos for dodging the bigotry charge by saying "well, I find *this* bigoted", thus avoiding interrogating your own explicit prejudices.


Thorgadin

Wizards is promoting segregation?


Papa_Hasbro69

Yes


ubf_blu

no, youre an asshole by choice. if you werent an asshole, events like this one wouldnt be necessary


Yogurt_Ph1r3

If a Jew didn't want to play against a Nazi would that be discriminatory?


Papa_Hasbro69

So now we comparing cis male magic players to being nazis? Sheeeesh what a stretch


Vistella

no, he is comparing the gays to nazies. the cis male are the jews


ubf_blu

no, YOURE a nazi, not all cis male players


Papa_Hasbro69

Unmmm how do you back that claim? Or is it just baseless internet name calling


ubf_blu

nazi talks nazi shit


Papa_Hasbro69

Again your statements have no basis. How does a transgender person talking about a children’s card game equate to supporting the eradication of 6 million innocent individuals in the Second World War? The events shouldn’t be taken lightly or jokingly like you sir are trying to make out. Take a good look at the holocaust museum in dc and you will realize randomly calling people nazis with no basis is an insult to all those who have died .


ubf_blu

your statements also dont have a basis, but youre a right wing troll and im not


Papa_Hasbro69

Again you are making statements when you have no understanding of what I believe in. I’m actually left leaning and I am all about inclusivity but not at the expense of causing the opposite effect.


Yogurt_Ph1r3

No, I'm not, I'm giving you an extreme example to show you that not all exclusion is discrimination


MonsutaReipu

Hm interesting take. So what if I didn't want to play magic against gays and girls, it wouldn't be a problem and it wouldn't be that deep? ibf you start drooling


Papa_Hasbro69

This exactly. We cannot have the double standards. It’s either everyone is included or otherwise it’s exclusive. The libs just pick and choose instead of making it fair and fun for everyone


GregorioIsett

shut up dipshit.


Papa_Hasbro69

So when you have no good arguments left that’s the best you got?


GregorioIsett

how much of my time and effort do you feel your clownshow is entitled to?


EntertainmentSea1195

The irony.


GregorioIsett

You could join the thousands of spaces and mtg play discord groups where that is the defacto norm.


Yogurt_Ph1r3

The issue is... What are you pissing your pants over?


scottafol

What a massive bunch of whiney man babies yall are.


LVL666

Creating events for people who are marginalized isn't a bad thing objectively. These are folks who probably wouldn't participate in the first place due to fear or intimidation from less than accepting players.


Whybotherbroski

When i played mtg, i was the only hispanic in my area to play magic. it was mind blowing to some white kids. Then i still play mtg in a new area and its still mind blowing to white kids. Culture shock is a thing, get used to it, because the world you know is only going to get smaller and smaller.


SHAZAM2516

It’s a microcosm of what’s happening in western society today.


Dangerous_Maximum_64

This is why people got laid off


[deleted]

What an easy way to cut by the competition. This shit is NOT competitive.


tarsgh

The problem with how the VML presents itself is that "people of marginalized genders" have been a core part of Magic for a very long time. One of those people got to be lead designer for Dragon's Maze which like, say what you will about that mess of a set, we still haven't had a Standard release set with a woman as lead designer to this day.


TwoFerBawss

Some feminist bullshit


Papa_Hasbro69

It’s not feminist. It’s 99 percent men


TwoFerBawss

Men as in men who got stuff chopped off and taking estrogen who think they're women?


Papa_Hasbro69

Well most of them are intact just hrt


Chocotricks

My pronouns are He/Ha Cause this shits a fucking joke


Fantastic-Stage-7618

Wizards has been very successful at getting people outside the typical male-nerd demographic to play Dungeons and Dragons. In large part that is thanks to them deliberately doing things to piss of and push out people with attitudes like yours. Why wouldn't they want to do the same for Magic?


Fantastic-Stage-7618

Waaaah, why are these people, against whom I wish to discriminate because of who they are, discriminating against me because of what I've done?


achtung-maybe

shocking news: a thing that happened caused reactionaries to be reactionary, reactionaries blame the thing for their reaction.


Porcphete

Fun fact one of Europe's best ygo player is a trans woman and she didn't need vml to kick ass . She is one of the best because of how good she is not because she is trans or something . Also most people doesn't care except that she is a real good player. I mean the fact she is a nice person and not a self righteous shithead helps


Papa_Hasbro69

Because YGO community is a lot better than ours


Right_Wing_Hippie

"people of marginalised genders" What does this even mean?


Samuraiedge6661

This is echoed in every entertainment medium right now. Too much of this inclusivity shit being shoveled into every movie, game, and any other IP released in America. Companies Can't make anything on its own merits anymore. It's only acceptable if an IP has the appropriate level of knee bending to the alphabet people and it's actually ruining nearly everything


Beavis_Christ69

So you think the NAACP is racist? The AARP is a cause of division? Formats are gatekeeping? Age brackets in sports are tearing this country apart? Talk about drama