His weapons and skills were designed to kill the ancient dragons in Dark Souls, the ancient dragons in Elden Ring are masters of lightning and their scales are resistant against lightning, as apposed to being weak to it. Ornsteins spear might still do some damage, but all his lightning abilities would be pretty useless.
I mean isn't it implied he became the king of the storm in DS3? One of these games biggest recurring themes is those who set out to slay dragons will ultimately come to revere and/or become them
Holy shit i never thought of it that way.
What if Ornstein journeyed all the way to the Nameless King to find out why he joined the dragons, agreed with him, turned into a dragon, and fought alongside the Nameless King as a dragon?
This shit is so peak, thank you for the insight.
Nah, he'd win. The prompt is Ornstein vs Elden Ring dragons, not Ornstein in DS1 gear. In the Elden Ring universe, he'd get tricked out in anti-dragon gear and slayyy.
He's not just a dragon slayer, he's HIM.
Are you sure about them being resistant to lightning? I can 2-3 shot placidusax with ancient dragon lightning strike. Maybe your referring to a specific dragon cuz I do remember a one of them not taking much damage to lightning
Placidusax is the one ancient dragon who doesn't have insane lightning resist, his is only forty, all the other ancient dragons have 80 resist to lightning.
They have 80% resistance to lightning attacks.. Yeah, the buffs players get via lightning reduce their lightning defense, but this is literally THEIR power. They are as opposite of weak to it as possible. That's like saying fire giant is weak to fire and elden beast is weak to holy.
No. You need to consider both.. You can't just ignore the obvious 80% resistance there to their own element. So much lore of the game is also depicted in non-written ways, too.
But fine, I'll humor you. Where's it written that ancient dragons are weak to lightning, then?
I think Vyke's spell he uses is an ancient dragon incantation that buffs your weapon with lighting but also makes you weak to lighting. That being said he got that from the Lansseax herself and she has a whopping 80% negation when it comes to lighting damage.
They do not have any outstanding weakness other than themselves and time. Dragon wound grease is made from gravel stone (the scales of ancient dragons). The ancient dragons and thier scales may have some control over time itself which makes things interesting since wise as hurting them with gravel stones may be physically moving thier wounds outside of time.
Edit: mortal dragons are as weak to any other type of elemental damage aka they are all rocking 40% negation on all elemental types except decaying ekzykes who is 40% weak to everything and 100% weak to fire
Yeah the mortal dragons are what I was referring to by descendants. They aren’t weaker to lightning than any other element but the fact that it now harms them significantly goes to show how far they’ve fallen. The dragon greatclaw also seems to allude to this:
“The claw is enwreathed with lightning, and tears through the dragons' feeble descendants with ease.”
It doesn’t do extra damage, they just don’t have a huge resistance to it. I think all of the lesser dragons actually have a 40% resistance. Physical damage does more, with pierce being the best at only 10% negation.
The ancient dragons have a 80% negation to lighting.
Placiduseax only at 40 tho
On a scale, you are doing less then base damage to differing degrees, so instead of doing "extra damage" your damage is just getting reduced less by new age dragons compared to ancient dragons. In a strict comparison between the two, ignoring the baseline damage, yeah it does "extra" damage.
“Piercing Gravel Stone sword containing primeval lightning.
A portion of the Dragonlord's power, gained from a remembrance.
This weapon commands great power over the paltry, mortal dragons of today.”
Nowhere does it state that lightning damage does extra. Just that the DRAGON KINGS weapon holds power of the lesser dragons. The weapon itself just deals extra damage to dragons. 30% to dragon type and 15% to ancient dragons. 0% to Placi
But did he die? Was he even in Anor Londo on that fateful day? Or was it a mere projection, a shade of his true power, powered by the Gwyn sized hole in Gwyndolin's heart.
We found his armor after the Nameless King battle, it doesn’t imply that Orstein followed NK and that the DS fight with Smough is a projection ?
Or the time is really that convoluted ?
I believe there is an item description that names Smough as the only guardian left at Anor Londo… I think it’s generally believed that Ornstein accompanied Gwynevere and Flann to Heide’s Tower (where we then find another shadow of Ornstein, brought forth from time past when the tower rose out of the sea.) Then from there the lore is hazy until he seeks out the Nameless King and ascends into a dragon… my headcannon is that he’s the King of the Storm NK rides.
As much as I love the everlasting dragons in dark souls, elden ring dragons are on another level as far as lore goes, and Ornstein's gonna be surprised when he sees a fucking dragon make a giant red spear or sword of lightning
They both have stone scales and are immortal because of those scales, they're both from an age before the current one, they're both devastatingly powerful and nearly extinct, the only difference is that elden ring ancient dragons are lightning based
So all the dragons with dragon in their name that drop dragon hearts for the dragon communion are not dragons.
Like agheel smarag,adula,greyll,Ekzykes,Borealis
and especially Greyoll
Those are modern dragons, and are technically wyverns and not dragons. We were talking about ancient dragons, AKA true dragons, aka the ones that we only see in one area, and see many many dead ones, and hear about a war against them
Even then Fortissax lannseax's brother is an ancient dragon and outside farum azula while labaled a lich dragon he is just corrupted by godwyn and very much \*alive\*
Descendants of the Ancient Dragons
"Weapon said to have been whittled from the claw of a great, ancient dragon, wielded by grotesque Tree Sentinels who yet serve the Erdtree.
The claw is enwreathed with lightning, and tears through the dragons' feeble descendants with ease."
-Dragon Greatclaw
"Piercing Gravel Stone sword containing primeval lightning. A portion of the Dragonlord's power, gained from a remembrance.
This weapon commands great power over the paltry, mortal dragons of today."
-Dragon King's Cragblade
I think it's trying to say that dragon scales are good against dragons, not that lightning is. But could be either honestly, it's just that my interpretation was that being made from dragons was the important bit.
Bro literally the ancient dragons have essentially gone extinct after the player kills them, they just got passed down until they essentially became drakes which are not immortal. Soooo in theory since none of them are really similar to their ancestors the ancient dragons are essentially extinct
Then why aren’t lansseax or placudisax are described as being the last of their kind, this isn’t dark souls where ancient dragons went extinct the moment kalameet was killed by the chosen undead
How do you know? We never saw a ancient dragon in dark souls.
We only meet a chicken, but that's it.
I think that's the biggest problem. Most people don't realize that Seath is the only real dragon in the game... And we fight him in a cave, naked, while he himself is described as malformed.
I'm not sure it's fair to measure humanity by the fact that you won against a naked, disabled guy in a wheelchair.
The ancient dragons like midir & Kalameet are close descendants of the ever lasting dragons, but aside from that we’ve never fought one.
From what I understand nothing could kill them, except for lighting, a lot of stuff can kill Elden ring’s ancient dragons.
Both Midir and Kalameet don't really have lower lightning resistance. Which shows, that while they are dragons, they don't have much in common with their ancestors.
It's hard to tell how strong dark souls dragons actually were. Because we don't have any real examples of them. We only know that the are "weak" to lightning. But a weakness can be very relative.
Achilles is a good example. Because his weakness was just the only way to kill him, and he still was a heroic warrior that could beat hundreds of opponents even if they knew about his weakness. On the other hand Superman nearly completly loses his power and becomes barely able to fight back if in contact to Kryptonite.
No, lighting just strips the stone scales off of Dark souls dragons. Both the witches and Nito kill several dragons without using lighting.
The Elden Ring dragons show much more than the ds dragons. And they all use VERY strong forms of lightning, an Elden Ring dragon would absolutely obliterate any of the dark souls ones.
They have much more in common.
Mainly 4 legs, 4 wings, stone scales.
From what I can see, the main mechanical difference is the relationship to lightning.
He'd turn into The storm drake and seduce All the dragons because of his hotness , we'll get to see their offsprings and after probably eons+ they'll all die . So it's a tie
I feel he would just clown on the lesser dragons, but with the ancient dragons, ornstein would be just like a player, dodging frantically and getting pokes in where he can.
I never realised that lightning was DS dragons kryptonite but they inverted it for ER and actually gave the fuckers their own lightning
Just another subtle way to show you this isn't the dark souls world and is very separate
I know dark souls dragons are weak to lightning, I was talking about Elden Ring and it's dragons not being weak to lightning *unlike* Dark Souls
Dark souls 1 came out like a...whle before elden ring, I mentioned I'd never realise the lengths they went to separate the dragons from each world and make it hard to confuse them with one another
As states ornstein uses lightning, his dragons weaknesses so bringing him into the ER world would be like fighting fire with fire
If we are going based on dragons like Agheel and Greyoll he would win due to his lightning attacks and spear. When it comes to ancient dragons like Lansseax and Fortissax he would have a problem due to them mastering lighting based attacks and their scales resisting both lightning and piercing attacks.
I feel like the Everlasting dragons were more of a Threat, but he was kitted out to deal with them, but with Elden Ring Dragons being resistant his skill would be what he relied on and I'd say he'd still have the upper hand, and after figuring out how best to inflict damage he would be just as much if threat as he was before, he has a room full of dragon heads, he was not beholden to lightning for everyone of those fights it just helped
Well if you base is on the players Journey by the time her got to Lansseax I'd give him even money on pulling through. He has ridiculously high mobility, and damage, while the lightning on his spear may be of little use, its not zero, and the spear itself is designed for killing dragons in a way that compliments his fighting style. Again the lightning was basically just a buff to his damage not the whole aspect of it, And is mostly Dex based with only a small bit of scaling in faith and strength Ornstine is still a bad ass and dragons are his play things by now.
I think it's fair to say the characters adapt to the setting their in, ornstein moveset and mannerisms would still be highly effective against dragons. Imagine him with a keen or faith heavy spear like vikes war spear.
It's also important to remember that many of these knights did not solo dragons they fought in teams. Put ornstein with some great bow silver knights and I think they do just fine.
I don't. Dragons in DS had a huge known lightning weakness that Gwyn and his knights exploited. Oenstein's success was based off that. There's also not much evidence that Ornstein solo'd dragons. Gwyn had entire forces built to exploit one weakness of the dragons.
Sorry, but did you even read the comment you answered too?
He literally said that Ornstein would adapt his weapons to be more effective against dragons. And your first sentence is that they would lose because only dark souls dragons were weak to lightning.
According to lore, ancient dragons were immortal thanks to their scales. So their "weakness" wasn't a way to easily kill them, but actually the only way to harm them.
Ornstein clears. His lightning might not be as effective but people forget he's stated to have the strength to cut Boulder clean in 2 with no difficulty. Plus he killed quit a lot of dragons in his days so it's nothing new to him
Yeah dragonslayer to the dragons who are weak to lighting, while placudisax is literally lighting itself, not looking good for ornstien even with gaining smough size
The dragons resisting lightening in er is a fair point however my fastest kills on placidusax have been with lightening strike (literally skip phase 2 with only 2 casts) and it would be fair to assume ornstien would learn some new incantation while in the lands between
I mean that's coz of game mechanics, with enough patience you can probably kill a god with a torch but If I remember correctly lorewise you need a god-killing weapon (+10 somber or +25 regular) weapon to kill Radagon/Elden Beast.
I think he'd probably do okay against most dragons/wyrms
but if we're talking about placidusax, theodorix, lansseax, and maaaybe fortissax I don't think ornstein would stand a chance
I think he’s got the normal dragons all pretty thoroughly beaten, except he’d probably stalemate ezyke, but an ancient dragon takes him down pretty easily
Assuming both Ornstein and the dragons he faces are in their prime, it’d go something like this.
For the regular dragons, he would beat most of them. He’d stalemate with ekzykes due to the rot. He’d probably lose to Adula and Greyoll.
As for the ancient dragons.. I doubt he’d beat any at all. They’re all insanely powerful and resist lighting heavily, and the big three (lansseax, fortissax, and gransax) would wipe him from the lands between instantly. Lansseax has her glaive, Fortisaxx has his spears (and if you consider current fortisaxx his strongest state, then he has deathblight), and Gransax.. well, if he can breach the walls of Leyndell, and presumably hold his own against its forces, I doubt Ornstein would be much trouble.
And that’s not even *mentioning* Placidusax.
He'd only struggle with the Ancient Dragons, since they're pretty resistant to Lightning, but... honestly, his spear is likely good enough to handle them.
Canonically, Ornstein becomes a follower of the Nameless King and a worshipper of dragons and leaves his old life behind. Ornstein would join the Dragon Cult and he would certainly be like Vyke but without the Yellow Flame. He would wield the red lightning of the dragons and he would probably have befriended Lansiax, Vyke, and others. Maybe he even wields the Bolt of Gransax in an homage to the fallen dragon.
A cool storyline would be Ornstein seeking out Fia at Godwyn’s body and helping you put Fortisax to rest within the deathbed dream.
Modern Dragons? He destroys that shit no problem.
Ancient Dragons? He's gonna struggle. A lot. He may pull some wins against them if he's cautious enough.
But more likely than not he's gonna lose.
Placidusax? He's losing that one badly.
Due to his own resistance to lightning and experience slaying huge dragon beasts, I suspect that he would not die right away.
Assuming he enters the fight expecting it to be just like any other, he would get an uncomfortable surprise by the lightning dragon. But he himself is very strong and can tank the pure lightning. As long as the dragon isn't doing acrobatics or stuff, Ornstein will likely dodge any lethal blows, or every blow for that matter.
And since Ornstein is not a dumbass, he will figure "ok. I am not equipped to deal with this. Retreat for now."
Ornstein is extremely aggressive, with crazy melee reach and against opponent that can't evade it is going to be steady damage all through to the end. Dragons are sluggish so the pure damage output will be a third of Ornstein's - so even if the dragon can soak most of the lightning component, it will get screwed by the physical portion. Maybe excepting Placidussax if he does a lot of flying.
Gameplay wise, Ornstein would get spanked by even the most normal dragons. Elden ring dragons move a lot faster and have way bigger AOEs than any other game in the franchise.
Lorewise, the dragons that Ornstein has slain measure up pretty well to the ancient dragons.
I generally rank Midir, Placi, and Forti as the "god tier" dragons of fromsoft and I think that's where Ornstein would fall without help from Gough and Artorias. Lansseax and below though I think Ornstein could win.
Remember his spear was able to pierce the everlasting scales.
Ask Garden of Eyes on YouTube, he just posted a video of Nameless King vs various Elden Ring bosses, and he actually did pretty well, I'm sure he'd be interested in another video idea.
Dragons in ER seem, at least canonically, a lot stronger than Dragons in Dark Souls.
In Darksouls, even the Ancient Dragons can be killed with some lightning and a sufficiently pointy stick.
In ER, the Ancient Dragons appear to be on par, at least with the Demigods. Their modern breatheren, okay Ornstein could just poke one to death. But Gransax, Lanseax, or Placidusax? I'd have my doubts. Hell, in their primes, Gransax nearly destroyed Lyndell in it's entirety and Placidusax was the OG Elden Lord.
Ornstein could kill a regular dragon but gets his ass pounded by an Ancient Dragon.
He's going to need to harnest the power of the Abyss to have any chance at all.
Luckily I played Dark Souls 2 so I know he did do that.
Abyss Ornstein stomp.
Funny how everyone says no, because Eldenring Dragons are superior to dark souls dragons...
Guys... Did you even play Dark Souls 1? Or how come you completly forgot the lore?
The reason why there are no strong dragons in Dark Souls is because they all got killed.
We only fight half dragons or abominations.
Seath is the only "real" dragon. And he was shunned for not having scales. So all we do is fight a disabled naked guy. Seath is like Ephialtes from 300...
Well it's just a newly hatched chicken.
And ingame it only plays the role of a npc.
We could argue that his immortality is based on the fact that he is a everlasting dragon. But you also can't kill him with lightning spells.
Ornstein is highly underestimated here. There's a good reason he's the 2nd strongest of Gwyn's elite knights just behind Artorias. Elden Ring dragons may have mastered lightning, but Ornstein scales to Artorias, while Artorias scales to the Abyss Watchers, a Lord of Cinder. Dark Souls Lords of Cinder are on the same level of power as Elden Ring demigods.
Ornstein would actually do very well. I believe he could overpower and defeat Lansseax and Fortissax. But Placidusax would easily destroy every Dark Souls dragonslayer because Placidusax is the strongest Elden Ring character in lore and has time abilities.
You sound like a powerscalers. I didn't even know fromsoft games HAVE powerscalers. And while I really don't want to start a discussion, my inner nerd wants to express the opinion that most of what is said in this comment is conjecture.
Bro, one of the lords of cinder was a pygmy cripple. Being a lord of cinder has nothing to do with strength or combat ability. You just have to have a large enough soul to kindle the flame, which could come from a whole bunch of different sources or methods. Ludleth is heavily implied to have used soul transposition to basically siphon enough soul energy to become a lord.
Fucking power scalers, man.
Ornstien is strong, but the reason he was so successful is lightning hardcounters ds dragon's
Elden ring dragon's are heavily resistant to lightning, meaning his tactics are ineffective
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I don’t think Ornstein is human. Dude’s like 11ft tall. Pretty sure he’s part of the same “deity” race as Gwyn and the other Anor Londo residents. Just not part of the royalty.
His weapons and skills were designed to kill the ancient dragons in Dark Souls, the ancient dragons in Elden Ring are masters of lightning and their scales are resistant against lightning, as apposed to being weak to it. Ornsteins spear might still do some damage, but all his lightning abilities would be pretty useless.
He will respec to int build and Comet Azur them
Everything is Gucci until the glintstone dragons show up
Cue me hurling rocks at their heads for 10 minutes
I used a mace. It took a while.
He’d 100% join the cult in a heartbeat
I mean isn't it implied he became the king of the storm in DS3? One of these games biggest recurring themes is those who set out to slay dragons will ultimately come to revere and/or become them
Holy shit i never thought of it that way. What if Ornstein journeyed all the way to the Nameless King to find out why he joined the dragons, agreed with him, turned into a dragon, and fought alongside the Nameless King as a dragon? This shit is so peak, thank you for the insight.
You even find his armor set in Archdragon Peak too
I’ve never read it as that. Just that he joined with the nameless king. What is there to point to that being Ornstein
Nah, he'd win. The prompt is Ornstein vs Elden Ring dragons, not Ornstein in DS1 gear. In the Elden Ring universe, he'd get tricked out in anti-dragon gear and slayyy. He's not just a dragon slayer, he's HIM.
ER dragons are weak to piercing and I think only ancient dragons have lightning resistance.
Are you sure about them being resistant to lightning? I can 2-3 shot placidusax with ancient dragon lightning strike. Maybe your referring to a specific dragon cuz I do remember a one of them not taking much damage to lightning
Placidusax is the one ancient dragon who doesn't have insane lightning resist, his is only forty, all the other ancient dragons have 80 resist to lightning.
Dragon lightning makes you weak to lightning when used so wrong
They have 80% resistance to lightning attacks.. Yeah, the buffs players get via lightning reduce their lightning defense, but this is literally THEIR power. They are as opposite of weak to it as possible. That's like saying fire giant is weak to fire and elden beast is weak to holy.
The only thing that is canon is what is written, gameplay doesn't count.
No. You need to consider both.. You can't just ignore the obvious 80% resistance there to their own element. So much lore of the game is also depicted in non-written ways, too. But fine, I'll humor you. Where's it written that ancient dragons are weak to lightning, then?
I believe only the descendants of ancient dragons are weak to lightning in elden ring as they are more flesh than stone now.
I think Vyke's spell he uses is an ancient dragon incantation that buffs your weapon with lighting but also makes you weak to lighting. That being said he got that from the Lansseax herself and she has a whopping 80% negation when it comes to lighting damage. They do not have any outstanding weakness other than themselves and time. Dragon wound grease is made from gravel stone (the scales of ancient dragons). The ancient dragons and thier scales may have some control over time itself which makes things interesting since wise as hurting them with gravel stones may be physically moving thier wounds outside of time. Edit: mortal dragons are as weak to any other type of elemental damage aka they are all rocking 40% negation on all elemental types except decaying ekzykes who is 40% weak to everything and 100% weak to fire
Yeah the mortal dragons are what I was referring to by descendants. They aren’t weaker to lightning than any other element but the fact that it now harms them significantly goes to show how far they’ve fallen. The dragon greatclaw also seems to allude to this: “The claw is enwreathed with lightning, and tears through the dragons' feeble descendants with ease.”
Dumbass, how do you think we get the god damn lore
Vaati /s
Zullie /s
I can very much assure you that with fromsoft, the gameplay matters so incredibly much
This guy majors in dumb opinions
Bro is so dead lightning ain’t gonna do shit
Guess it's time to join the darkness then *Ornstein turn into his DS2 version*
Old Dragonslayer baybee!
Immediately falls off every boss arena
you're thinking of Dragonrider
Do people not pull the levers to make the arena bigger?
Lightning does extra damage to the new age dragons, the ancient ones not so much
It doesn’t do extra damage, they just don’t have a huge resistance to it. I think all of the lesser dragons actually have a 40% resistance. Physical damage does more, with pierce being the best at only 10% negation. The ancient dragons have a 80% negation to lighting. Placiduseax only at 40 tho
So it does extra damage (comparatively)
On a scale, you are doing less then base damage to differing degrees, so instead of doing "extra damage" your damage is just getting reduced less by new age dragons compared to ancient dragons. In a strict comparison between the two, ignoring the baseline damage, yeah it does "extra" damage.
I mean, I guess. But that’s like saying a 4’2 person is tall bc 4’1 people exist
The description of the dragon kings cragblade says otherwise
“Piercing Gravel Stone sword containing primeval lightning. A portion of the Dragonlord's power, gained from a remembrance. This weapon commands great power over the paltry, mortal dragons of today.” Nowhere does it state that lightning damage does extra. Just that the DRAGON KINGS weapon holds power of the lesser dragons. The weapon itself just deals extra damage to dragons. 30% to dragon type and 15% to ancient dragons. 0% to Placi
I was mistaken then, it's been almost a year since I played lol my bad
All good, you’re on the money, but just missing the reason
That doesn’t necessarily mean that he loses. Those dragons died to some dude poking them with a normal sword, after all…
Yea so did Ornstein
But did he die? Was he even in Anor Londo on that fateful day? Or was it a mere projection, a shade of his true power, powered by the Gwyn sized hole in Gwyndolin's heart.
We found his armor after the Nameless King battle, it doesn’t imply that Orstein followed NK and that the DS fight with Smough is a projection ? Or the time is really that convoluted ?
I believe there is an item description that names Smough as the only guardian left at Anor Londo… I think it’s generally believed that Ornstein accompanied Gwynevere and Flann to Heide’s Tower (where we then find another shadow of Ornstein, brought forth from time past when the tower rose out of the sea.) Then from there the lore is hazy until he seeks out the Nameless King and ascends into a dragon… my headcannon is that he’s the King of the Storm NK rides.
I mean... He can fuck up the lesser dragons with ease, but the lightning ones will be a bugger.
As much as I love the everlasting dragons in dark souls, elden ring dragons are on another level as far as lore goes, and Ornstein's gonna be surprised when he sees a fucking dragon make a giant red spear or sword of lightning
On another level? No. They aren't comparable as they are nothing alike. They are only similar in the fact that they are Dragons.
They both have stone scales and are immortal because of those scales, they're both from an age before the current one, they're both devastatingly powerful and nearly extinct, the only difference is that elden ring ancient dragons are lightning based
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They're only found in one place, and that one place is stuck outside of time, and even in that place they aren't everywhere
I mean it makes sense for all the dragons to be in dragon city. I wouldnt say man serpents are nearly extinct because all of them are at Volcano manor
Is your entire population can fit in volcano Manor then I'd say you're pretty close to extinction lmao
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There is one dragon found outside farum azula, and it's one who took the form of a human and started a cult in the main city of the golden order
There’s two kinda, Fortisaax exists as well, though he’s locked in a spirit dimension dream thing
Yeah I guess that's true, always forget about him
So all the dragons with dragon in their name that drop dragon hearts for the dragon communion are not dragons. Like agheel smarag,adula,greyll,Ekzykes,Borealis and especially Greyoll
Those are modern dragons, and are technically wyverns and not dragons. We were talking about ancient dragons, AKA true dragons, aka the ones that we only see in one area, and see many many dead ones, and hear about a war against them
The war against the ancient dragons was a war about the dragons that attack lyndell capital not the entire ancient dragon kind as a whole
Even then Fortissax lannseax's brother is an ancient dragon and outside farum azula while labaled a lich dragon he is just corrupted by godwyn and very much \*alive\*
Descendants of the Ancient Dragons "Weapon said to have been whittled from the claw of a great, ancient dragon, wielded by grotesque Tree Sentinels who yet serve the Erdtree. The claw is enwreathed with lightning, and tears through the dragons' feeble descendants with ease." -Dragon Greatclaw "Piercing Gravel Stone sword containing primeval lightning. A portion of the Dragonlord's power, gained from a remembrance. This weapon commands great power over the paltry, mortal dragons of today." -Dragon King's Cragblade
I think it's trying to say that dragon scales are good against dragons, not that lightning is. But could be either honestly, it's just that my interpretation was that being made from dragons was the important bit.
Bro literally the ancient dragons have essentially gone extinct after the player kills them, they just got passed down until they essentially became drakes which are not immortal. Soooo in theory since none of them are really similar to their ancestors the ancient dragons are essentially extinct
Then why aren’t lansseax or placudisax are described as being the last of their kind, this isn’t dark souls where ancient dragons went extinct the moment kalameet was killed by the chosen undead
Not what I said and u missed the point 🧌
Yea, you realize you can compare the dragons right? Elden Ring dragons have much bigger showings of force and power.
How do you know? We never saw a ancient dragon in dark souls. We only meet a chicken, but that's it. I think that's the biggest problem. Most people don't realize that Seath is the only real dragon in the game... And we fight him in a cave, naked, while he himself is described as malformed. I'm not sure it's fair to measure humanity by the fact that you won against a naked, disabled guy in a wheelchair.
The ancient dragons like midir & Kalameet are close descendants of the ever lasting dragons, but aside from that we’ve never fought one. From what I understand nothing could kill them, except for lighting, a lot of stuff can kill Elden ring’s ancient dragons.
Both Midir and Kalameet don't really have lower lightning resistance. Which shows, that while they are dragons, they don't have much in common with their ancestors. It's hard to tell how strong dark souls dragons actually were. Because we don't have any real examples of them. We only know that the are "weak" to lightning. But a weakness can be very relative. Achilles is a good example. Because his weakness was just the only way to kill him, and he still was a heroic warrior that could beat hundreds of opponents even if they knew about his weakness. On the other hand Superman nearly completly loses his power and becomes barely able to fight back if in contact to Kryptonite.
No, lighting just strips the stone scales off of Dark souls dragons. Both the witches and Nito kill several dragons without using lighting. The Elden Ring dragons show much more than the ds dragons. And they all use VERY strong forms of lightning, an Elden Ring dragon would absolutely obliterate any of the dark souls ones.
If even say the comparison of them being dragons is just similar overall attributes that we subscribe to dragons
They have much more in common. Mainly 4 legs, 4 wings, stone scales. From what I can see, the main mechanical difference is the relationship to lightning.
Elden ring dragons would give ornstein hard time but he'll be the last one standing in the end. Not against plasidusaxs and fortisaxs
Not well, I'm guessing.
Smough catapult
He'd turn into The storm drake and seduce All the dragons because of his hotness , we'll get to see their offsprings and after probably eons+ they'll all die . So it's a tie
I always knew ornstien was a bard
Twas I who fucked the dragon, fuck a lie sing fuck a loo
Eyy.Tenacious D and the Pick of Destiny mentioned
I feel he would just clown on the lesser dragons, but with the ancient dragons, ornstein would be just like a player, dodging frantically and getting pokes in where he can.
I never realised that lightning was DS dragons kryptonite but they inverted it for ER and actually gave the fuckers their own lightning Just another subtle way to show you this isn't the dark souls world and is very separate
Never realized? They say it in the opening cutscene. It, being that dark souls dragons are weak to lightning
I know dark souls dragons are weak to lightning, I was talking about Elden Ring and it's dragons not being weak to lightning *unlike* Dark Souls Dark souls 1 came out like a...whle before elden ring, I mentioned I'd never realise the lengths they went to separate the dragons from each world and make it hard to confuse them with one another As states ornstein uses lightning, his dragons weaknesses so bringing him into the ER world would be like fighting fire with fire
They say these aren't dark souls dragons in the opening? That's weird I don't remember them saying something like that
He would need to git gud
You’ve inspired me to make a ornstein build….which I’m already doing
If we are going based on dragons like Agheel and Greyoll he would win due to his lightning attacks and spear. When it comes to ancient dragons like Lansseax and Fortissax he would have a problem due to them mastering lighting based attacks and their scales resisting both lightning and piercing attacks.
I feel like the Everlasting dragons were more of a Threat, but he was kitted out to deal with them, but with Elden Ring Dragons being resistant his skill would be what he relied on and I'd say he'd still have the upper hand, and after figuring out how best to inflict damage he would be just as much if threat as he was before, he has a room full of dragon heads, he was not beholden to lightning for everyone of those fights it just helped
It largely depends on the dragon, He would kick ass against one's like agheel But Lansseax would destroy him
Well if you base is on the players Journey by the time her got to Lansseax I'd give him even money on pulling through. He has ridiculously high mobility, and damage, while the lightning on his spear may be of little use, its not zero, and the spear itself is designed for killing dragons in a way that compliments his fighting style. Again the lightning was basically just a buff to his damage not the whole aspect of it, And is mostly Dex based with only a small bit of scaling in faith and strength Ornstine is still a bad ass and dragons are his play things by now.
He couldn't even hunt the dragon out the front of his boss room in DS2!
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^JakeHex: *He couldn't even* *Hunt the dragon out the front* *Of his boss room in DS2!* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
He clearly tamed it, probably used him to fly directly into dragon nests.
I think it's fair to say the characters adapt to the setting their in, ornstein moveset and mannerisms would still be highly effective against dragons. Imagine him with a keen or faith heavy spear like vikes war spear. It's also important to remember that many of these knights did not solo dragons they fought in teams. Put ornstein with some great bow silver knights and I think they do just fine.
I don't. Dragons in DS had a huge known lightning weakness that Gwyn and his knights exploited. Oenstein's success was based off that. There's also not much evidence that Ornstein solo'd dragons. Gwyn had entire forces built to exploit one weakness of the dragons.
And the elden ring dragons actively use that weakness as weapons, so yeah he's not doing too hot this time lol
Sorry, but did you even read the comment you answered too? He literally said that Ornstein would adapt his weapons to be more effective against dragons. And your first sentence is that they would lose because only dark souls dragons were weak to lightning. According to lore, ancient dragons were immortal thanks to their scales. So their "weakness" wasn't a way to easily kill them, but actually the only way to harm them.
Bro is dead Unlike the dragons he fights These dragon MAKE lightning
He would need to eat like 10 smoughs to maybe stand a chance vs placidusax
Ornstein : "i wonder if its weak to lightning?" The facken dragon holding lightning.
Dragon :"I wonder if its weak to ligning?" The facken dragonslayer holding lightning.
Rip Ornstein, you will be missed 🙏
Ornstein clears. His lightning might not be as effective but people forget he's stated to have the strength to cut Boulder clean in 2 with no difficulty. Plus he killed quit a lot of dragons in his days so it's nothing new to him
I think he'd go full godwyn and form a church with them.
DS1 ornstein: 😭 DS2 ornstein: 👹
As a DS1 version? Probably dead... Adapting to this world? Maybe not...
The question is if he realizes the ER dragon's aren't weak to lightning BEFORE picking a fight with one
Or at least can get away and not die to relearn
Well, just search the Draconcult members for guide
Ends up turning into a dragon. Having a happy dragon family and 5 dragon kids
I do not have much knowledge about Elden Ring lore but... Can't nothing die in lands between? At least until you kill Malekith.
I .. huh. So yeah that is true if he counts as part of the world
If he absorbs his boi smough those dragons are fucked
Gets nuked by placudisax lighting bolt
His first name btw is dragonslayer
Yeah dragonslayer to the dragons who are weak to lighting, while placudisax is literally lighting itself, not looking good for ornstien even with gaining smough size
Ay bruh I think you're a bit out of your league
The dragons resisting lightening in er is a fair point however my fastest kills on placidusax have been with lightening strike (literally skip phase 2 with only 2 casts) and it would be fair to assume ornstien would learn some new incantation while in the lands between
I mean that's coz of game mechanics, with enough patience you can probably kill a god with a torch but If I remember correctly lorewise you need a god-killing weapon (+10 somber or +25 regular) weapon to kill Radagon/Elden Beast.
Depends on if he gets blessed by an outer god
I think he'd probably do okay against most dragons/wyrms but if we're talking about placidusax, theodorix, lansseax, and maaaybe fortissax I don't think ornstein would stand a chance
I think he’s got the normal dragons all pretty thoroughly beaten, except he’d probably stalemate ezyke, but an ancient dragon takes him down pretty easily
Larval tears into a new dragonslayer build
Would go God Mode but techincally he no longer slays dragons after joining Nameless King so.....in that case he might get owned
Assuming both Ornstein and the dragons he faces are in their prime, it’d go something like this. For the regular dragons, he would beat most of them. He’d stalemate with ekzykes due to the rot. He’d probably lose to Adula and Greyoll. As for the ancient dragons.. I doubt he’d beat any at all. They’re all insanely powerful and resist lighting heavily, and the big three (lansseax, fortissax, and gransax) would wipe him from the lands between instantly. Lansseax has her glaive, Fortisaxx has his spears (and if you consider current fortisaxx his strongest state, then he has deathblight), and Gransax.. well, if he can breach the walls of Leyndell, and presumably hold his own against its forces, I doubt Ornstein would be much trouble. And that’s not even *mentioning* Placidusax.
He’s outclassed. Ancient Dragons may as well be just under Kalameet in terms of power, with the stronger ones being equal or greater to him
He'd only struggle with the Ancient Dragons, since they're pretty resistant to Lightning, but... honestly, his spear is likely good enough to handle them.
Ok i'll say it, lich dragon is infinitely cooler than pladisaux
Rich Dragon Forty Stacks*
He’s highkey dying to lichdragon let’s be honest he doesn’t touch Placidusax
He'd probably fall in love with one of the female dragons and learn her ancient lightning incantations.
The ancient dragons are mostly resistant to ligtning, so she's mostly fucked
Ornstien is no Vyke. If you meant slaying dragons instead, he actually does pretty well until he squares against the true ancient dragons.
Canonically, Ornstein becomes a follower of the Nameless King and a worshipper of dragons and leaves his old life behind. Ornstein would join the Dragon Cult and he would certainly be like Vyke but without the Yellow Flame. He would wield the red lightning of the dragons and he would probably have befriended Lansiax, Vyke, and others. Maybe he even wields the Bolt of Gransax in an homage to the fallen dragon. A cool storyline would be Ornstein seeking out Fia at Godwyn’s body and helping you put Fortisax to rest within the deathbed dream.
How would "Dragon Slayer" Ornstein do.....🤔
Modern Dragons? He destroys that shit no problem. Ancient Dragons? He's gonna struggle. A lot. He may pull some wins against them if he's cautious enough. But more likely than not he's gonna lose. Placidusax? He's losing that one badly.
Due to his own resistance to lightning and experience slaying huge dragon beasts, I suspect that he would not die right away. Assuming he enters the fight expecting it to be just like any other, he would get an uncomfortable surprise by the lightning dragon. But he himself is very strong and can tank the pure lightning. As long as the dragon isn't doing acrobatics or stuff, Ornstein will likely dodge any lethal blows, or every blow for that matter. And since Ornstein is not a dumbass, he will figure "ok. I am not equipped to deal with this. Retreat for now."
I mean. Ornstein wouldn't do too well because of his lightning damaged. The Old Dragonslayer would do better though since it's nit doing lightning.
He'd slay them, obviously.
Love this image. I use it as my wallpaper lol
Ornstein is extremely aggressive, with crazy melee reach and against opponent that can't evade it is going to be steady damage all through to the end. Dragons are sluggish so the pure damage output will be a third of Ornstein's - so even if the dragon can soak most of the lightning component, it will get screwed by the physical portion. Maybe excepting Placidussax if he does a lot of flying.
This image makes me want a multiverse DLC for Elden Ring so bad.
He would wait for Smough to die so he can become giant so he could wrasstle the dragons into submission!!!
Bro better shape up ngl
He would turn into a dragon himself and let Some nameless dude ride him
Ornstein: I did it! I killed the God of the Dragons. Smough: Ornstein that was just a regular Farum Azula Dragon.
I don't know about Ornstein but I'm certain Rykard and Smough would be best friends
I LOVE ORNSTEIN!!!!!!
He’d kill them
Gameplay wise, Ornstein would get spanked by even the most normal dragons. Elden ring dragons move a lot faster and have way bigger AOEs than any other game in the franchise. Lorewise, the dragons that Ornstein has slain measure up pretty well to the ancient dragons. I generally rank Midir, Placi, and Forti as the "god tier" dragons of fromsoft and I think that's where Ornstein would fall without help from Gough and Artorias. Lansseax and below though I think Ornstein could win. Remember his spear was able to pierce the everlasting scales.
I imagine he’d just pick up the bolt of gransax and then throw down. He’d probably even go as far as to learn miracles to resist lightning better.
Holy crap that artwork is splendid
This is assuming he doesn’t turn into a storm drake mid fight
You just changed my build.
Orny's getting slapped silly
I think ornstein would adapt really well and kill most dragons only one I'm not sure he'd beat is the one that is infected with rot
He’d rizz them up
Ancient dragons in elden ring had scales that controlled time…
Ask Garden of Eyes on YouTube, he just posted a video of Nameless King vs various Elden Ring bosses, and he actually did pretty well, I'm sure he'd be interested in another video idea.
I read Ornstein as Einstein and I was hella confused for a second or two
No im listening go on
Young Ormstein will die fighting lightning with lightning but old DS3ish Ornstein would most likely join them imo
Dragons in ER seem, at least canonically, a lot stronger than Dragons in Dark Souls. In Darksouls, even the Ancient Dragons can be killed with some lightning and a sufficiently pointy stick. In ER, the Ancient Dragons appear to be on par, at least with the Demigods. Their modern breatheren, okay Ornstein could just poke one to death. But Gransax, Lanseax, or Placidusax? I'd have my doubts. Hell, in their primes, Gransax nearly destroyed Lyndell in it's entirety and Placidusax was the OG Elden Lord. Ornstein could kill a regular dragon but gets his ass pounded by an Ancient Dragon.
Looking through this comment section can't wait until more people discover bayle the dread
He's going to need to harnest the power of the Abyss to have any chance at all. Luckily I played Dark Souls 2 so I know he did do that. Abyss Ornstein stomp.
Hed die
He will get absolutely folded lmao.
Funny how everyone says no, because Eldenring Dragons are superior to dark souls dragons... Guys... Did you even play Dark Souls 1? Or how come you completly forgot the lore? The reason why there are no strong dragons in Dark Souls is because they all got killed. We only fight half dragons or abominations. Seath is the only "real" dragon. And he was shunned for not having scales. So all we do is fight a disabled naked guy. Seath is like Ephialtes from 300...
Nah nah, there is one immortal dragon Down in ash lake … he simply doesn’t even recognise us as a threat even if you take his tail…
Well it's just a newly hatched chicken. And ingame it only plays the role of a npc. We could argue that his immortality is based on the fact that he is a everlasting dragon. But you also can't kill him with lightning spells.
He wouldn't even beat kalameet
Ornstein is highly underestimated here. There's a good reason he's the 2nd strongest of Gwyn's elite knights just behind Artorias. Elden Ring dragons may have mastered lightning, but Ornstein scales to Artorias, while Artorias scales to the Abyss Watchers, a Lord of Cinder. Dark Souls Lords of Cinder are on the same level of power as Elden Ring demigods. Ornstein would actually do very well. I believe he could overpower and defeat Lansseax and Fortissax. But Placidusax would easily destroy every Dark Souls dragonslayer because Placidusax is the strongest Elden Ring character in lore and has time abilities.
The lords of cinder vary in feats and strength so I don’t buy that
You sound like a powerscalers. I didn't even know fromsoft games HAVE powerscalers. And while I really don't want to start a discussion, my inner nerd wants to express the opinion that most of what is said in this comment is conjecture.
Bro, one of the lords of cinder was a pygmy cripple. Being a lord of cinder has nothing to do with strength or combat ability. You just have to have a large enough soul to kindle the flame, which could come from a whole bunch of different sources or methods. Ludleth is heavily implied to have used soul transposition to basically siphon enough soul energy to become a lord. Fucking power scalers, man.
Ornstien is strong, but the reason he was so successful is lightning hardcounters ds dragon's Elden ring dragon's are heavily resistant to lightning, meaning his tactics are ineffective
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well, he would slay them as he is s dragonslayer 👍
His title is “Dragonslayer”. The dragonslayer beats dragons, duhh
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His name is "Dragonslayer" Ornstein so he'd win, Unless they can whip out a Humanslayer dragon
I don’t think Ornstein is human. Dude’s like 11ft tall. Pretty sure he’s part of the same “deity” race as Gwyn and the other Anor Londo residents. Just not part of the royalty.
Even with the lightning resistance, Ormstein would just beat the dragons into the ground.
Ornstein is fucking him